Address My Column, Libs!
Posted on May 12th, 2009 by Tintin
Shorter Richard Cohen:
Richard Cohen, The Washington Post
What if Cheney’s Right?
- What if we could solve both the financial crisis and end terrorism by relocating Jews to internment camps? Not that I’m advocating that, but it’s something we should at least think about.
‘Shorter’ concept created by Daniel Davies and perfected by Elton Beard. We are aware of all Internet traditions.™
UPDATE: Link to comments on Cohen’s apologia pro cruciatus nostrum
OI! UP SCUMBAG!!
Any writer who uses the word soupçon in a column on torture is somewhat disconnected… from the electrodes.
@9:47–Daddy sends hugs!
Ever since the release of the memos, torture apologists like this guy preface their shit-laced columns with statements like
thinking they’ll get a leg over.
Lesley said,
May 12, 2009 at 10:24
“Ever since the release of the memos, torture apologists like this guy preface their shit-laced columns with statements like ‘I know how upsetting this will be to some Cheney critics, and I count myself as one, who think that everything he says is a lie.’ thinking they’ll get a leg over.”
You do have to get a kick out of how aware they are now, though — especially Cohen. Shitbags like him always knew that what they were writing was garbage. But now with the advent of blogs and the like, they are capable of receiving feedback, and they know that people know what shitbags they are. So much so that they start off their own fucking columns with defensive whinging.
This type of thing always gives me a warm feeling, that a fuckstick like Cohen, who made a career out of telling the unwashed masses what to think, suddenly has to cope with their feedback, in the form of comment after comment after comment on all his articles, telling him what a transparent moron he is, with not one single positive response.
There is only one way to find out if Cheney is lying. Torture him. I mean “enhanced interrogations”, strip him naked, smear him with feces and force him to teabag (which I hear is all the rage these days among Dicks) Richard Cohen. Then ask Dick Cohen if he enjoys fucking goats. Have a goat fuck him until he says yes or begs for it to continue. Problem solved, questions answered. Then and only then can America move on. Semper Fi
That’s the MR. American Public to you, Motherfucker…
I believe they were both frat boys so this should be nothing new if Boss Limbaugh is to be believed.
a fuckstick like Cohen, who made a career out of telling the unwashed masses what to think, suddenly has to cope with their feedback, in the form of comment after comment after comment on all his articles, telling him what a transparent moron he is, with not one single positive response.
A) Haven’t heard “fuckstick” in a while. Good word.
B) Always amazes me that w/in an hour or two of crypto-fascist crap appearing in the WaPo there’ll be hundreds of comments de-bunking everything & insulting the typist as a loser, offset by five or ten right-wing attempts at defense. But I doubt that any of the Villagers ever read any of it. And they certainly never seem to learn. But after all, they’re the ones telling us unwashed masses.
Village auto-troll: Is it more immoral to torture than it is to fail to prevent the deaths of thousands?
Yeah sure, but the next American servicemen captured by the enemy better give up a whole lot of information on our nuclear arsenal or else by the Cohen-Cheney logic, he deserves to get it.
Ps. Douthat, today, vault copy wingnut:
Abortion foes are defending a right to life grounded in the Declaration of Independence
What if, ah, what if Moses had gone up the mountain with an electric hammer drill? So many questions, so little time. Cohen is not merely a putz; he’s a grotesque deformation of the soul.
Mr. Cohen should also take a look at “The Balcony” by (according to Cohen) “once-important writer Jean Genet” where one of the main characters, The Torturer, holds court in a brothel full of Dick Cheneys, the rich and powerful trying to retain their illusions while a revolution rages outside.
Alternate Shorter:
The ends justify the means and you’re a dirty partisan blogger if you still think that’s the definition of evil.
And they wonder how newspapers, which swung rabidly right wing over the last eight years, are losing circulation by the bucketfuls.
Naw! There can’t be any connection!
They read the comments. All of them. The lure of the comments as a writer is a siren wail of potential ego stroking praise.
They of course pretend not to, and once in awhile one of them writes a piece that goes “Well, just this once I decided to check out the comments, and I was shocked at how foul and intemperate you liberals are…getting so a guy can’t write apologetics for war crimes without people calling him names in this town!!
But it is all fucking dirty lies. They read the comments.
Oh look, right when the the Post publishes a column defending the efficacy of torture, this happens:
A former CIA high-value detainee, who provided bogus information that was cited by the Bush administration in the run-up to the Iraq war, has died in a Libyan prison, an apparent suicide, according to a Libyan newspaper.
[…]
…Libi made up the story about Iraqi training after he was beaten and subjected to a “mock burial” by his Egyptian interrogators, who put him in a cramped box for 17 hours.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/11/AR2009051103412.html
Now let’s have a polite debate about Dick Cheney.
I think Cheney is holding back information that might help make our nation safer.
What should be done with him?
Shithead Cohen finds thinking hard sitting on his brain all day. When you teabag for a living, you find it easy to write whatever your pimp tells you to, and to write it quickly.
I love the Doughy Pantload equivocation these shitbags all use: “Although blart may be evil, and I hate it, I can’t help feeling that blart when blart blart can be useful. But I haven’t really studied it. But I suspect blart is good and everyone blart blart blart at some time or another.”
Also.
I think Cheney is holding back information that might help make our nation safer.
What should be done with him?
Force him to spend the rest of his life teaching hunter/warmonger safety courses to high school sophmores, with an emphasis of knowing what you are shooting at before you pull the trigger.
“Is it more immoral to torture than it is to fail to prevent the deaths of thousands?
I see what you do there, Dick “Ol’ Blood & Guts (other people’s blood, other people’s guts)” Cakewalk. Pretending that you didn’t fail to prevent the deaths of thousands on 9/11, and afterwards in Iraq.
Cohen wanks: Back in my college days, there was much late-night discussion about the “free man”…
So basically the WaPo makes us suffer every week because Cohen couldn’t get laid in college. Nice.
What if L. Ron Hubbard were right? Is it more wrong to obsess about clearing your thetans or letting space tyrant Xenu resurrect his galactic empire?
You could improve the quality of American journalism a few hundred percent by taking Richard Cohen out in the woods somewhere and shooting him in the head.
What if L. Ron Hubbard were right?
I, for one, welcome our Crusian overlords.
Shorter Cohen: Fool me once, shame on nobody. Please fool me again.
sayno2obama wrote:
I say we should waterboard all American hating leftist liberal loons and then the world would become a much nicer place to live. Hey all you American hating leftist liberal loons, have you hugged your tree today? If not, please do and oh, by the way, have a nice day :>)
5/12/2009 8:21:57 AM
================================
longbow651 wrote:
Do you suppose the liberal left is really more intelligent than the conservatives? Just reading the hate filled venom written on this comment section they seem to be more in line with the blind communist followers from the USSR than the American intellectual elite. I will continue with the Republicans and hope they get their agenda back on track. The liberals have slipped off the left end of the spectrum and will need an “attitude adjustment” to get straightened out.
5/12/2009 8:24:24 AM
================================
The wingnut mind at work.
died in a Libyan prison, an apparent suicide
Probably the same kind of “apparent suicide” that used to happen so often in South African jails.
But we haven’t been told yet that we’re supposed to hate Libya again, so I guess it’s all right.
The wingnut
mindcloaca at work.Fiznickeled.
Hey, armed robbery works! I know it does, because when I do it, I end up with money in my pocket!
So who’s to say it’s not right?
Atrios is right, they’re simply monsters. And at this point I have difficulty distinguishing between the WaPo and the WSJ Editorial page.
“Is it more immoral to torture than it is to
fail to preventrefuse to accept responsibility for the deaths of thousands?”We are in the heart of Tintin’s Loo Period.
You’ll eat corn and like it, kids. It’s a vegetable!
Apparently, Bill Donohue, in a discussion about Ron Howard’s certain-to-suck Angels and Demons, has said that it was OK for the Catholic church to put Galileo under lifelong house arrest because “he would eventually have died anyway”.
It’s so nonsensical as to be a blatant insult to the intelligence of anyone hearing it, so look for wingnuts to start using it as justification for absolutely everything over the coming weeks, months and years.
IT DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU THINK IT “WORKED,” WHICH IS HIGHLY DEBATABLE AND BY HIGHLY DEBATABLE I MEAN COMPLETE BS, WHAT MATTERS IS THAT IT’S UNETHICAL, ILLEGAL, AND IMMORAL.
SO JUST STOP IT.
Holy crapola. Cohen’s whole argument is that “a stopped clock is right twice a day,” so what the hell, torture might work?
Really?
Dang. Now THAT is what I call scraping the bottom of the ideological barrel. Almost as bad as Liz Cheney playing the “24” game on Moanin’ Joe this morning.
That’s awesome. I’m really glad our public fora are dominated by people with the debating skills of 2nd graders.
By the way, how come all a’ damn ‘foundin’ fathers’ said all this bullshit about ‘life’ and ‘liberty’ when we’s all gonna die someday any damn way and sometimes you get trapped in some’pin or other and it ain’t like you got liberty to everything, so, what the hell was they a thinkin’?
You’ll eat corn and like it, kids. It’s a vegetable!
That’s what you told us the ketchup was, y’bastige!
See also Glenzilla’s past few days of work about how our use of torture and detention without due process is totally different from when other countries do it, and completely without consequences.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/
Also: I remember when TNR wasn’t packed to the brim with convenient tools like Eli Lake. But I still don’t remember it as a font of wisdom. Amazing that they go with the “more idiots and louder” idea instead of changing course.
I still see a silver lining. Now we can at least point to concrete evidence that certain people are evil.
And there’s more in the pipeline, so to speak.
Actually, TNR’s been a band of haughty douchebag warmongerers in liberal disguise for the last 90 years. It’s not a recent decline. They were cheerleading Ronnie’s Central American death squads, including Michael Kinsley, who made sure to write cold, heartless lines on a routine basis of how stimulating it was for Central American democracy to slaughter a lot of people.
Don’t be so abtuse. Why, of course torture works!
I can’t even count how many victims of demonic posession & heretics against the Trinity I subjected to “Enhanced Interrogation” in my heyday, & sooner or later, every single one of them confessed!
Nice to see the old ways are finally coming back again.
Hey, here’s a question — if we’re all going to die anyway, why are we so worried about another terrorist attack? After all, if you don’t die in 9/11, you’ll die from something else, maybe some horrible, slow, painful cancer, so we might as well just accept it, right?
Also: I really like “address my post!”
Is it a command for oral sex, or a request for writing a street name on a piece of mail?
And if it is the second, where should we send it?
@El Cid at 15:59 :
Maybe your right. I stopped reading around 1996 or so, and I was pretty young when I read it. Tell me they were at least liberal on domestic policy, even if they wanted to bomb everyone?
Nancy Pelosi and the Democrat Congress knew about waterboarding and did nothing about if. Cheney is investigated, doesn’t that mean we bring down Pelosi, too? Hmmm?
Please, people – let’s be reasonable about this.
If Mr. Cheney thought the Homeland was threatened by a nefarious conspiracy, then he was OBVIOUSLY right to use “Enhanced Interrogation” to prevent it.
Oh, & I’ve got a snappy slogan the GOP can borrow for 2012:
“One People, One Homeland, One Leader!”
Christ, this article is a fucking disgrace.
“Cheney is wrong, except maybe he’s right, because every dog has its day, but that day is a dark day in American history because we shouldn’t torture, unless torture works…”
Take a position already, you damned coward.
Combine them by sending it to Richard Cohen at the Washington Post, along with a command for oral sex.
Nancy Pelosi and the Democrat Congress knew about waterboarding and did nothing about if. Cheney is investigated, doesn’t that mean we bring down Pelosi, too?
Gosh, a non-majority Congress going against the wishes of a “WAHTIME” “Unitary Executive” Preznit who shamelessly manipulated 9/11 to bolster his policies… hmm.. the same GOP who compared those Democrats to traitors to begin with… hmmm…can’t think of how to address this one…
Nancy Pelosi and the Democrat Congress knew about waterboarding and did nothing about if. Cheney is investigated, doesn’t that mean we bring down Pelosi, too? Hmmm?
I’m good with that.
“Gosh, a non-majority Congress going against the wishes of a “WAHTIME” “Unitary Executive” Preznit who shamelessly manipulated 9/11 to bolster his policies… hmm.. the same GOP who compared those Democrats to traitors to begin with… hmmm…can’t think of how to address this one…”
If they had the courage of their convictions, they would of stood up against what they believed to be “torture” right then and there. But of course they don’t-the Democrat Party leadership in Congress is too cowardly, spineless, and political. So if Cheney goes down, a lot of them will be going down with him.
Shall we investigate to see if Biden and Hillary Clinton knew, too? Should they go to prison?
Of course, even if we “bring down Pelosi,” there’s little doubt who did the hard work of planning and implementing the Bush torture regime. So Pelosi might get some jail time or fines for being a mostly-powerless opposition party functionary who was aware of the plans but had little ability to slow them down. But Cheney, Yoo, etc. will be the ones facing a possible firing squad.
Nancy Pelosi and the Democrat Congress knew about waterboarding and did nothing about if. Cheney is investigated, doesn’t that mean we bring down Pelosi, too? Hmmm?
Yep.
although I believe the penalty for enabling evil is a little different than the penalty for actually initiating it. Splitting hairs, I know, but there it is.
Shall we investigate to see if Biden and Hillary Clinton knew, too? Should they go to prison?
Let’s ask a more relevant question: Since you believe Pelosi, Biden, and Clinton should go to jail for being on the periphery of the torture problem, how much more do you believe the penalties should be for Dick Cheney, John Yoo, and the other Bush Administration officials who worked so hard to torture prisoners?
What if nuking the entire middle east “works”? It would be irresponsible of us not to try it! After all there are American lives at stake, nothing that might work can be ignored!
I don’t care as long as we get to bring the liberal motherfuckers down with us!
Hillary, Biden, Pelosi, Holder, Reid, Murtha, Hoyer, Dodd, Frank–if you take down Cheney, they all go with him!
In fact, the next step is investigating rendition under the Clinton Administration. Maybe Bill and Reno will be doing some time, too.
Should they go to prison?
Cite the appropriate criminal charge, and if it fits, yeah. Only, you are – as usual, in your trollish stupidity – failing to distinguish between acts that are criminal and those that are simply wrong.
Prison is for those who broke the law. If anyone who had the power to do something about it knew about the waterboarding and didn’t act, they should resign in disgrace.
As long as we make sure to hang the entire surviving members of the Reagan administration for directly facilitating genocide in Guatemala, I’ll stand the remainders.
I don’t care as long as we get to bring the liberal motherfuckers down with us!
The Principles of Conservatism!
although I believe the penalty for enabling evil is a little different than the penalty for actually initiating it. Splitting hairs, I know, but there it is.
It is more than splitting hairs. Pelosi would have faced certain prosecution for revealing whatever she knew. If she really knew that torture was being used (which actually isn’t clear, but I think it needs investigating), she still had a moral obligation to do something, but its not as if she had an unfettered hand to either speak out or stay quiet and chose the latter without any threat of serious penalty for doing the other.
On the other hand, the monsters who planned, rationalized and orchestrated the program have far more culpability. Pelosi may be a criminal in this, but it is the difference between a person in a ghetto who witnesses a drive by shooting and doesn’t report it to the police because they fear reprisal, and the actual shooter.
And then we’ll investigate members of the Carter Administration to see if there were any criminals there. We’re going to destroy the entire fucking government going back 30 years if you go down that road, liberals.
And when we get back in power (and we will someday) We’re going to go on a fishing expedition to find something on Hopey McChange.
Should your hero FDR have gone to prison for Japanese Internment? Hmmm?
The Principles of Conservatism!
You said it.
Gotta love the McVeigh Republicans.
I am fine with many top democrat leaders have there careers destroyed. Do you agree that there should be war crime trials for the sociopathic war criminals you voted for. Let the chips fall where they may.
Of course YCET, is an unprincipled fucktard who would defend Cheney even if he had gassed 6,000,000 Muslims. Morally he is know different than those who supported Hitler and those who now support Bin Laden.
Fuck Godwin. He died 8 years ago.
Who made the improved badger killfile? It’s the best thing ever. I thought the previous thing was the best thing ever, but now it has been swept away. Swept away by badgers. Truly we live in the best of the best of all possible worlds.
Hillary, Biden, Pelosi, Holder, Reid, Murtha, Hoyer, Dodd, Frank–if you take down Cheney, they all go with him!
What charges would you lay against Hillary, Dodd, Biden or Frank over this? None of them got briefed on jack shit about this.
This isn’t a fucking prisoner exchange or a major league draft, you don’t get to name a bunch of Democratic players to also go to jail in compensation for Cheney and co. Your crew committed war crimes. They are international criminals. There is no god damned equivalence.
Please show me where US conservatives objected to that policy. oh, wait a minute…
Should FDR have gone to prison for imprisoning innocent Japanese Americans, or not? If so, why don’t they write this in the history books and call him a war criminal?
I think imprisoning innocent American citizens in camps is far worse than waterboarding the mastermind of 9/11.
You Cannot Escape the Truth thinks that commentators on this site are as amoral as he is. “What if your daddy was a rapist? I bet you silly libs would be in favor of legalizing rape then har har?”
What a twat.
I’m not asking about conservatives! I’m asking about libs!
But of course they don’t-the Democrat Party leadership in Congress is too cowardly, spineless, and political.
Remember – these are the same Dems who’re supposedly going to create the eternal 1000-year Liberal Reich. Yup.
“Standing up” against Dumby McFuckwit back in 2002 would have been the same political non-starter that invading Afghanistan back in 1998 would have been. Of course, let’s just ignore this and slam the Dems for “having done nothing”. Have cake & eat it too, the Repug way.
Gosh, you mean to tell me that there are folks who don’t believe Dick “Of Course We Know Where The WMDs Are” Cheney when he says using torture saved America from terrorist mayhem after 9/11?
C’mon, this is the same guy that gave you Nigerian Yellowcake … the same guy who wanted wounded American troops billed for their own damaged body-armor … the same guy whose company peddled tainted drinking water to US troops in Iraq … the same guy who used an undergrad paper to help justify invading a sovereign country … the same guy who propped up his WMD stories with “government documents” from foreign ministries that technically don’t exist, & memos written by officials who just happened to be dead at the time – what’s not to trust here?
O ye of little gullibility … you’re making the Baby PT Barnum cry, you meanies!
Nancy Pelosi and the Democrat Congress knew about waterboarding and did nothing about if. Cheney is investigated, doesn’t that mean we bring down Pelosi, too?
Damn right.
Nail her for the criminal dereliction of duty inherent in proclaiming that “impeachment is off the table” while you’re at it. But if she can provide something better than the Nuremburg defense that the Rices & Cheneys are peddling to justify her actions – something that diminishes her guilt to the level of a reasonable doubt – then it’s olly-olly-oxen-free for Nancy.
Next!
Oh please. You were going to do that anyway. The only reason the Republican Party still exists is some vague hope that some day they might be able to put Obama on trial for something. It would be like a redo of the OJ trial and the Clinton impeachment at the same time.
Hey jim, gonna send Holder, Hillary, and Biden to prison too then?
By the time you’re done, Hopey won’t have a cabinet left.
Wow. Nothing reveals the sports-team mentality of wingers better than “what if it brings down Pelosi, too?”
We don’t think like that, you damn morons. We aren’t the seig-heilers – that’s you guys. I would have absolutely no problem with Pelosi gets her ass kicked over the deal. If she is in the wrong, she needs to be penalized.
While “it’s OK for a Republican” is an operational principle for the GOP and its enablers, some folks believe wrong is wrong, regardless of party.
Pelosi is too damn right wing for me, anyway.
Dudes, what’s that smell? Troll-skid?
Anyways, Cohen was probably subbing for the NRO geniuses who talk about “the whole vastly overwrought debate on the proper uses of torture”.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDllOWY1ZjgyZTE2NjhiYmYwYzg2MzNkYmYwOTRjOGM=
Let’s take that one to Sunday school, to be discuss alongside the proper uses of napalm and mustard gas.
Hey jim, gonna send Holder, Hillary, and Biden to prison too then?
See the above, shit for brains.
1. I doubt you’ll find many liberals who will defend Roosevelt on this, and I daresay that yes, this was a crime against humanity. Should Roosevelt have gone to jail for it? Probably. Thankfully, this could never happen today, just like torture. Oh, wait.
2. And of course, as St. The Tragically Flip has already noted, in calling on America to condemn Roosevelt, YCETT is arguing against years of conservative thought.
What does it say about Hopey’s decision making abilities if he picked a bunch of “war crime” enablers for his cabinet?
A former CIA high-value detainee, who provided bogus information that was cited by the Bush administration in the run-up to the Iraq war, has died in a Libyan prison, an apparent suicide, according to a Libyan newspaper.
Another addition to the Clinton Death List.
Friendly word of advice, Truthy: if I were you, I’d lay off the ‘Hmmm?’s. To use your own parlance, they make you sound like kind of a fag.
Besides, I thought we weren’t going to have you to kick around any more?
Besides, we can just use the Iran-Contra defense for prosecutions against the Dems – “it was years ago and should have been done at the time so shut up it’s in the past and nobody cares about the past”
Your hero George Bush killed hundreds of thousands of people for the hell of it, and bad management is the best you can come up with?
You are pathetic.
And when we get back in power (and we will someday) We’re going to go on a fishing expedition to find something on Hopey McChange.
I thought we only investigated obscure Arkansas real estate deals.
A fishing expedition? Man, that’s rich. It’s been tried – Vault Copy didn’t fly with voters.
And after raping and pillaging the economy, it’s going to be a few days before the upper class and their enablers take over the country again.
How many civilians are dying in Afghanistan under Hopey’s watch, LittlePig?
Whatever happened to “no blood for oil” or “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism”?
If you wanna read an account of how “real” torture “works,” read the article in the May # of Harper’s which is an interview with a professional killer in the one of the Juarez drug cartels.
Chilling.
If Pelosi knew what some say she knew, then yeah. She should be taken to task for it.
And yeah, I shouldn’t be addressing Tro “I’m leaving and NEVER COMING BACK” oofy, but this is a general point anyway.
Oh, and Tintin…devowel this sucka.
Cohen’s right. Let the debate begin, but let us expand it. For too long we have taken for granted the wisdom and efficacy of the United States’ treaty obligations and constitutional guarantees. Take the freedom of assembly, for example, currently protected by the U.S. Constitution and some other documents that are too international for a good American to recall. Should we not be open to discussing the potential utility of putting that right on hold as we prosecute the global war against terror?
YCETT, history judges FDR very poorly for that act. Liberals included (especially). It is a blight on his record, but almost no one objected to that policy back then, and Canada did the same thing, showing that FDR was hardly uncommon in this sort of racism back then. There also wasn’t an explicit treaty and decades of laws and jurisprudence against it. FDR didn’t even break any Federal criminal laws by doing this. Still, it was wrong, which was why in 1988 the United States and Canada seperately apologized for it and paid compensation.
Maybe we can redress the wrongs of the Bush administration a little sooner than 46 years later this time?
Besides, what the fuck is your point? That past injustices justify present ones? Andrew Jackson perpetrated genocide of the North American indiginous peoples, is that enough moral relativism for you to feel better about your apologetics for war crimes? Someone else in history did something worse so torture’s no so bad in the “grand scheme”?
Unlike you, we aren’t labouring under the illusion that all historical members of our ideology or side were perfect human beings, and perfectly happy to see them see justice for their crimes since we don’t actually believe powerful people should be above the law, unlike conservatives.
How many civilians are dying in Afghanistan under Hopey’s watch, LittlePig?
Many. And it’s a shame. But unlike Iraq, which was on the right wing radar since the late ’90s, Afghanistan was actually connected to 9/11. And since GOP fuck-ups let the Taliban take over again, we’re still there – another example of Republican failure.
Thomas Sowell is going to be pissed when he sees Cohen used up all the toilet paper and didn’t get a new roll.
#
You Cannot Escape the Truth said,
May 7, 2009 at 7:12
Fuck you. Fuck you all.
That’s all I have to say, fags, and I wish you all well.
Because this, buttmunches, is my last comment ever on this blog. But someday (in 2012) you will realize I was right all along. Obama will be a one-term failure like his hero Jimmy Carter.
You won’t have The Truth to kick around anymore.
Goodbye, libs.
The person who posted as me saying it was my “last post” was a spoofer.
A fishing expedition? Man, that’s rich.
At least they’re admitting that’s all they’ve got, this time around.
Should your hero FDR have gone to prison for Japanese Internment? Hmmm?
I seem to recall Saint Reagan apologizing for that one a few years back. In fact, I remember something about reparations being paid.
Shorter Pravda:
Goalposts! SWOOOOOSH!
Is this the best we can do now? “Yeah, we were criminals but you let us do it so we should all hang”?
“Triad marriage” was nuanced and clever comparatively.
The person who posted as me saying it was my “last post” was a spoofer.
No, you just can’t take responsibility for your actions. But we already knew that – you are a Republican, after all.
Who cares? It’s just one of the ten thousand plus grand pronouncements made by various version of The Authentic Troofy Whatever that have been, and will be complete horse hockey.
We can start by addressing Bookmark this, but seeing how whenever that’s brought up you squeal back to your hole, I’ll save you the disgrace. Keep plodding on with your bit, troll.
You know, come to think of it he should be called “Pravdachka” instead.
The diminutive form is just so much more appropriate.
Our little friend must really be homely. Most 17 year olds would be out chasing tail.
And you should really start shilling for Super 8, seeing how they let you hop from spot to spot in order to avoid the S,N ban list. I find it amazing that you fell on it to begin with- all you have to do to not be banned around here is 1) Not be an overly excessive vulgar nutcase and 2) Not delve into IRL threats…and you couldn’t avoid either. Well done.
And when we get back in power (and we will someday) We’re going to go on a fishing expedition to find something on Hopey McChange.
there are three reasons why Obama & the Dims won’t prosecute anybody for anything. You hit one of them squarely, because any attempt to ‘bring down’ the Busheviks would be met eventually by a much more vicious, retributive attack from the right: Think Nixon/Clinton. The lesson will not have been lost on the extremely careful Obama or his advisors.
the other two are: there is no precedent for it, and it would be futile in any case, because–given that 46 or 47% of the people voted against “thePrez” there is not a jury anywhere in the USofA which would get 12 (unanimous) votes for conviction.
The right is supposed to hate moral relativism*, but here we are arguing with a conservative whose defence amounts to “other people did worse.”
* conservatives have no acual values other than power, and those things they espouse are only as convenient to the pursuit of power at that particular moment, see also “small government”, “states rights”, “civil liberties”
I never made IRL threats against anybody.
I believe Cohen…nice Irish name, I note…is engaged in what is called “begging the question”.
Torture is wrong, you imperious asshole. Period!
Is it more immoral to torture than it is to fail to prevent the deaths of thousands?
Shouldn’t a utilitarian defense of torture require more proof of utility than “well, a guy who benefits from our believing it worked said it worked?”
Woody! Good to hear from ya, man.
How many civilians are dying in Afghanistan under Hopey’s watch
That’s President Hopey, you Islamofascistterroristbuttmuncher.
I never made IRL threats against anybody.
Because you are a chicken-shit. But again, we already knew that.
#LittlePig said,
May 12, 2009 at 17:07
Woody! Good to hear from ya, man.
hola, to you, too, lil pig! Thanks…
I never made IRL threats against anybody.
I believe you have, son. I believe you have.
By the way, TinTin, shouldn’t that photograph be captioned “The Right Wing Thinker”?
The person who posted as me saying it was my “last post” was a spoofer.
And then you just happened to not post a single thing for five days afterwards.
No, I think you went into the yard and had a good cry while all the other kids carried on the party without you, and after a while you came back in, sniffling and red-cheeked, a little quieter and more withdrawn than before, hoping everyone would be polite enough not to mention the incident.
Don’t feel bad – it’s happened to most of us. Not usually after the age of seven or eight, but perhaps you’re just a late bloomer.
* conservatives have no acual values other than power, and those things they espouse are only as convenient to the pursuit of power at that particular moment, see also “small government”, “states rights”, “civil liberties”
NO Politician–“liberal” or “conservative”– really cares about anything other than power. They do the bidding of the powerful, and if “the people” somehow derive some benefit from that, well, shit happens…
Ps. Douthat, today, vault copy wingnut
Another exercise in speculative commentary by the more-Catholic-than-the-Pope, old-man young man who sits on high on his reactionary, moralizing stool.
Douthat’s bore. Bring back Kristol.
You know, I think we’ve reached the point where if Dick Cheney said “throwing kittens into blenders will stop terrorism!’, you’d have pundits arguing “Hey, anything to protect the American people!’
Exercising my constitutional right to correct myself:
a bore
Bring back Kristol.
Bill Kristol would be a prophetic genius if he’d just always write and say the exact opposite of what he normally would.
NO Politician–”liberal” or “conservative”– really cares about anything other than power.
I don’t think this is true. Russ Feingold has put himself on the line over principle a number of times. It may be rare, but there are certainly examples of liberal politicians standing up for principle at personal expense. Was Ted Kennedy seeking power when he stopped Bork? What was LBJ doing when he signed the Civil Rights Act? Even Obama made trouble for himself by releasing the memos. It would have been easier for him to just withhold them, the DC establishment would have happily supported that, and only us DFHs and the ACLU would have noticed.
Anyway, I was speaking generally, not just about politicians per se, and I’m sure there are specific exceptions even on the right (actually Tom Coburn seems principled on spending in a deluded sort of way) but the conservative movement on the whole will make 180 degree turns without remorse on cornerstone issues that supposedly define them if it becomes politically convenient. They went from screaming 24/7 about the “rule of law” over Clinton’s impeachment to “the constitution is not a suicide pact.” The dissonance never seems to bother them.
Some chickenshit liberals went along with the Iraq war (like Johns Kerry and Edwards) but we don’t pretend these were principled decisions and in fact, the liberal base made an issue of the Democratic candidates apologizing for that vote in 2008. Not doing so very likely cost Hillary the nomination and the Presidency.
You know, I think we’ve reached the point where if Dick Cheney said “throwing kittens into blenders will stop terrorism!’, you’d have pundits arguing “Hey, anything to protect the American people!’
That, and much much worse already.
You know, I think we’ve reached the point where if Dick Cheney said “throwing kittens into blenders will stop terrorism!’, you’d have pundits arguing “Hey, anything to protect the American people!’
Oh it is much worse than that.
Cohen colleague Ed O’Keefe takes offense to Yoo/”torture” question:
From the WaPo Chat:
Plus, Formula One threats are much more impressive.
Are you actually comparing the interrogations of terrorist suspects, (some of whom, upon their release have joined Al Queda’s fight to kill Americans), to the extermination of the Jews in Nazi Germany?
Does your hatred for Dick Cheney actually cloud the senses to any semblance of decency?
Tell you what—-I’ll pay you $5 to waterboard me for one minute, but I get to douse you with jet fuel, kick you through the glass of a window on the top floor of the empire state building after which you land on the top of a bagel cart.
Then let’s talk about who’s being tortured….
The sad thing is, that Dick Cheney was trying to save your lives, you ingrates.
Cohen: “Is it more immoral to torture than it is to fail to prevent the deaths of thousands?”
Leads me to think of all sorts of related questions.
“Is it more immoral to torture a suspected terrorist in ways that cause permanent damage to the suspect than it is to fail to prevent the deaths of thousands?”
“Is it more immoral to torture the relatives of a suspected terrorist than it is to fail to prevent the deaths of thousands?”
“Is it more immoral to threaten to bomb villages in the nation of a suspected terrorist–and be forced to follow through at least once to show you mean business–than it is to fail to prevent the deaths of thousands?”
“Is it more immoral to begin executing dozens of the suspected terrorist’s countrymen one by one, as long as he doesn’t provide information, than it is to fail to prevent the deaths of thousands?”
So Cohen, are there any of these you feel we can take right off the table without having a national debate?
Tell you what—-I’ll pay you $5 to waterboard me for one minute, but I get to douse you with jet fuel, kick you through the glass of a window on the top floor of the empire state building after which you land on the top of a bagel cart.
So long as you go first, I’ll take that bet, John. I can guarantee you won’t last the minute, even if I threatened to do to you what you so graphically just threatened us with.
I like how you think that you- or anyone- would last one minute being waterboarded. You really have absolutely no idea.
Hey jim, gonna send Holder, Hillary, and Biden to prison too then?
Okay – I’m typing this REALLY SLOWLY so maybe you can follow along: The obvious targets for investigation & indictment are those who initiated torture as a policy or were directly & actively complicit in keeping that policy in place. Duh.
Someone’s awfully eager to bust bit-players who all just happen to be Democrats – when they have the stones (& the basic logical consistency) to show such zeal toward putting Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Yoo, Addington, et al in orange jumpsuits, I might think they own a functional soul.
Playing party politics with torture is some mighty sick shit, dude.
But then, I guess noone should be surprised if the nice folks who invented Purple Heart Band-Aids stoop to the ethical level of whaleshit – y’know, up until that 9/11 slideshow at the RNC, I thought Goopers might draw the line at glorifying necrophilia. My bad.
Republican pathology: it’s not a bug, it’s a feature.
(PROTIP: Herr Trout could never resist attaching the dreadful epithet “Canadian” to my name … ergo he went back on his meds & this isn’t the same troll.)
No, he wasn’t, he was simply yet another traitorous Republican, who, after having spent 8 months with their heads up their asses giving a middle finger to anyone trying to warn him and dumbass Junior about imminent terrorist threats, then watched 9/11/2001 go down on their watch and realized that if they didn’t act like super-macho shits in front of all their cowardly, pants-pissing, moron right wing fanboys, then the fanboys might notice them as the incompetent, dangerous, draft-dodging shitbags they were to have let the largest ever terrorist attack on the U.S. go right on without the slightest finger twitch of an effort.
Republicans wouldn’t know how to ‘keep us safe’ or ‘save lives’ if God Almighty handed the instruction manual to them with supplementary DVD and home game set, gift wrapped inside another instruction manual. They’re all useless, cowardly shits who think that idiocy = safety. But really they’re all just a pile of chickenshit, pants-pissing dumbasses and thieves.
Republicans in general hate this country, its Constitution, and its people in general; they’re much more attracted to straight up sedition and secession, since their core values lie more with the Confederacy than the Union anyway.
If the repubs are so hot to protect the American public, then they’ll all vote for universal health care to protect the public from health threats, riiiiiiiight?
I’ll be back later to kick all you libs’ asses.
Or, heck, let’s dispense with the theoretical. These people completely shrugged off FEMA inefficiency during Katrina because homina homina libertarian theory homina homina America shouldn’t have to protect people.
“another traitorous Republican”
You keep biting on that pillow and think happy thoughts.
Tell you what—-I’ll pay you $5 to waterboard me for one minute, but I get to douse you with jet fuel, kick you through the glass of a window on the top floor of the empire state building after which you land on the top of a bagel cart.
Hey, another right wing moral relativist! It’s all ok because Nazis and Al Qaeda are worse.
Tell me, when is it not ok John? What limits should there be? Why stop at waterboarding? What if the terrorists were trained for it, as Cheney claims they will now do, that they know about it…Should the US pull fingernails and threaten the families of detainees? After all these things would be more effective in soliciting information.
We set limits in law for acceptable behaviour in war. We did so after the worst atrocities on record, in WWII. We knew what we were talking about, and decided this far, and no futher. Those limits were officially upheld during the entirety of the cold war, against a rival nuclear armed empire whose ideology called for our destruction or conversion to their system.
So you tell me, who the fuck is Dick Cheney or George Bush to upend all that on a whim because he chose to shit his pants after terrorists got lucky in a strike that would never work a second time? The President is not a King and doesn’t get to make these kinds of decisions.
Just because he’s a god damned coward too scared to fight in the wars his type advocates doesn’t mean he gets to burn down the core principles of our civilization because it suits him.
Yeah, he can rot in jail in the Hague. I hope his guards speak French and quote international law just to irk him.
These people completely shrugged off FEMA inefficiency during Katrina because homina homina libertarian theory homina homina America shouldn’t have to protect people.
I avoided that example, good as it is, because some of them seem to think FEMA’s performance was acceptable. Keeping it hypothetical reduces the effect of their partisan beer-goggles.
I don’t quite know what that means, but I do know that it’s the right wing that fantasizes that there’s a dark-hued Mooozlim under their bed who intends to touch them in their special places, so, I don’t know if that’s some weird fantasy you’re trying to share or what.
But seriously — is there anyone who would seriously dispute that modern Republicans don’t simply detest this country, most of the people in it, and everything good it’s ever stood for?
“he can rot in jail in the Hague”
Again….keep biting on that pillow.
The whole hatred-disguised-as-outrage narrative is wearing thin. Especially when Democrat members of congress knew about it all along.
You can actually HEAR the windo closing on the liberal fringes false morality….
Still waiting on John to explain how he expects to last a minute on the board.
M. Bouffant said,
Always amazes me that w/in an hour or two of crypto-fascist crap appearing in the WaPo there’ll be hundreds of comments de-bunking everything & insulting the typist as a loser, offset by five or ten right-wing attempts at defense. But I doubt that any of the Villagers ever read any of it. And they certainly never seem to learn. But after all, they’re the ones telling us unwashed masses.
They definitely read it. It’s why they are so jarringly aware of how horribly their ideas are going over with the public, so much so that they’re starting off their columns defensively.
Someone who has the courage of his convictions (gruesome as they may be) doesn’t let insecurity creep into his writing like Cohen does. Someone who starts a column with “I know all you libs are going to call me a monster for this, but…” is someone who is reading every comma and apostrophe of those comments, maybe multiple times. Mein Kampf doesn’t start off with “I know you Jews and homos are going to really pile on me for this, but…”
It is an indicator that Cohen doesn’t really believe the frightening immoral shit he is writing, and he is insecure about his job performance as a propagandist; he isn’t as good at it as he thought he was, and just maybe he never was, he only thought he was because he never had feedback.
Cohen knows what a small, pathetic shell of a man he is, and it’s because we’re doing a good job of telling him, through feedback on his columns proper, and widespread public shame and ridicule on sites like this.
Yeah, he can rot in jail in the Hague. I hope his guards speak French and quote
international lawalgebra in a Pepe Le Pew accent just to irk him.Fi-say!
Lesley said, very early on,
thinking they’ll get a leg over.
How else to reach the state of athwartedness?
The whole hatred-disguised-as-outrage narrative is wearing thin. Especially when Democrat members of congress knew about it all along.
So according to you, it wasn’t wrong to torture, but it was wrong for Democrats to know and not be able to do anything about it?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Conservative logic at its finest!
What if John is right? What if the pickle in my ham sandwich suddenly explodes with nuclear force?
What if FYWP.
Your delusions of being able to take a full minute of waterboarding are a perfect match for your delusion that Cheney gives a shit about anyone other than himself. Zero for two, honeybuns.
Dick Cheney was trying to gin up a case for invading Iraq based on a nonexistant connection to OBL – & you might want to take a look at that phrase “terrorist suspects” & check out exactly how BushCo defined it under Patriot Act 2 & the Military Commissions Act (hint: Google is your friend) … just to see if YOU qualify for a trip to an undisclosed location for a little “Enhanced Interrogation” hydrotherapy.
Who knows, you may already be a winner!
I guess, I mean, if you ignore the fact that fewer and fewer people every day identify as Republican and more and more respond that the Democrats are more able to actually ‘keep us safe’, as opposed to running their mouths trying desperately to pretend to be tough, as though torturing someone in custody is a macho thing to do.
It’s just so typical of Republican cowardice. It’s just like Dick Cheney’s “hunting” expeditions, you know, the one where he was drunk and shot his old lawyer friend in the face.
They bag and net and drug birds to be held down until drunk Fourthbranch stumbles by, and then when he manages to get his shotgun out of his ass and point in the general direction, they release the birds so that he can shoot them.
This is hunting, according to right wing cowardice, just like torture, in which you can count on your enemy to be chained up and controlled and all safe for you, is supposed to be macho now.
I’m really surprised at the depths of cowardice and sedition that the modern Republican party has chosen to openly embrace, although it was clearly built in to their embrace of the segregationist Southern Democrats in the post-Civil Rights era.
Thank god they’re dwindling down to that root traitor party of the South, while the rest of the nation gets tired of being dragged down by their idiot, thieving, cowardly asses.
Clearly, every signatory to the various treaties against torture — including the U.S. — already answered Cohen’s question. Do these people think no one already considered these issues? They’re the first to think of them? No, it’s already been decided that there is NO JUSTIFICATION FOR TORTURE. There’s also a consensus on what constitutes torture, including waterboarding. Why are the villagers still debating this?
Again….keep biting on that pillow.
The whole hatred-disguised-as-outrage narrative is wearing thin. Especially when Democrat members of congress knew about it all along.
You can actually HEAR the windo closing on the liberal fringes false morality….
Is “biting the pillow” a fag joke? Sure, why not throw in some bigotry to compliment your apolgetics for atrocity.
Did you read the comments about Pelosi? We don’t care if she gets prosecuted too, and if she really did know (which you assert without actually knowing since this is clearly in dispute) then yes, prosecute her to the full extent of the law. The liberal base doesn’t close ranks around torturers or collaborators.
I’m happy to admit I feel something akin to hatred for Cheney. That’s what people with functioning moral centres feel for war criminals. It’s normal. It’s not bigotry because I hate him for (and this is key so pay attention) things he actually chose to do and still defends. It is a very rational hatred. You’re allowed to hate people for doing awful things.
“but it was wrong for Democrats to know and not be able to do anything about it”
No, it’s HYPOCRITICAL for liberals to lambast Republicans for something that they consider to be “torture”. But then again, we ARE talking about Nancy Pelosi here.
What is this, her 3rd version of events on this issue? Or the 4th? Im losing track.
But keep harping on the whole “Water up KSM’s shnoz for plotting to kill 3000 Americans is bad for America” schtick. What a great platform.
I think the American people will respond in kind come election day.
Idiots.
‘Teacher, what I was doing could not have been wrong, otherwise, why didn’t Nancy tattle on me? She knew what I was doing. If you’re not going to punish her, how can you punish anyone? You know, we conservatives stand for responsibility, and by that, we mean other people taking responsibility for what I do wrong.’
Okay, I’m back and I have my kicking boots on.
What if PENIS?
I think George Washington was a goddamn pussy faggot for not torturing those fucking Brits. Him and his long hair gay friend Thomas Jefferson, who was all stickin’ his finger up his butt wondering about ‘OMG how can we be a gay faggot nation worried about our inherent morality and fair trials’ and all the other gay coward bullshit.
The sad thing is, that Dick Cheney was trying to save your lives, you ingrates.
Oh look, someone stole Kim Jong Il’s favorite smack-down.
“Water up KSM’s shnoz for plotting to kill 3000 Americans is bad for America”
Is this waterboarding, then?
I love a fat smegma sandwich on a toasted croissant.
But seriously — is there anyone who would seriously dispute that modern Republicans don’t simply detest this country, most of the people in it, and everything good it’s ever stood for?
I suppose I’d argue that your rank-and-file Republican Party member doesn’t “detest this country, most of the people in it, and everything good it’s ever stood for.” That’s really the specialty of the hard-right psychos who are actually running the party and its blogs.
Sure, “John” sees himself as some bizarre Rob-Liefeldian version of Captain America, roaming the country torturing and executing anyone who looks at him funny — see, he represents America, and if they look at him or his loincloth funny, they’re looking funny at America.
But your generic Republican is into the party out of brand loyalty. Many of them are friends with Hispanics, black people, and Democrats, and they prefer to think of the pundits’ and party leaders’ theatrics as, well, theatrics.
If the rank-and-file ever realized that the party leaders had them and their families in their sights… well, actually, they did realize that, and that’s why less than a quarter of the country self-identifies as Republican nowadays.
Is this waterboarding, then?
One girl, one cup.
Listen, John is the kind of person who defends torture. Is there anything else to discuss with him? When someone’s that morally bankrupt, you should recoil from him in pity and horror, not engage with him.
Of course, even the Bush DoJ doesn’t allow a full minute of waterboarding. According to their own memoranda, the limit was 20-40 seconds. So John is apparently such a tough guy that he can withstand multiple times the limits that even Cheney was willing to countenance without believing it to be torture.
How much sleep deprivation can you take, there John? More than 11 days?
Any phobias? Can we cram you into a box with whatever you’re terrified of?
How about standing, maybe we can shackle your arms to the ceiling and leave you standing for 24 hours.
Can you take the cold? Let’s put you in a meat locker and drench you with cold water.
If you’re going to volunteer for this crap, you don’t get to pick and choose a few techniques for just a short period of time. You need to experience the real thing, and that requires
a) that you don’t get to stop it when you’ve had enough
and
b) you have no idea when it will end, or if they will actually kill you
Let’s see how tough you are suffering hypothermia after not sleeping for 4 days while your feet have swollen to twice their size from prolonged standing.
Dick Cheney’s delicious taint is better than Fresca.
“but it was wrong for Democrats to know and not be able to do anything about it”
No, it’s HYPOCRITICAL for liberals to lambast Republicans for something that they consider to be “torture”. But then again, we ARE talking about Nancy Pelosi here.
No, I’m afraid you’re wrong.
It’s wrong to torture. The Administration is wholly responsible for the use of torture.
That someone enabled them is a different issue wholly, one that is not under discussion by Cohen. The issue at hand is “Is torture ever right?”
Sadly, no.
When someone’s that morally bankrupt, you should recoil from him in pity and horror, not engage with him.
Except for the 30% of the population that thinks you should vote for him.
In the 2nd Jackass movie they dumped a box of bees into a limo carrying the other guys. This proves an incredibly important point, libs.
Answer me this, libs: would you rather jump from the burning towers or suckle weakly at George W. Bush’s barren man-teat?
Are you veiling the PENIS references again PeeJ?
PENIS reference
Sadly, cannot be complete
Without unveiling
But your generic Republican is into the party out of brand loyalty. Many of them are friends with Hispanics, black people, and Democrats, and they prefer to think of the pundits’ and party leaders’ theatrics as, well, theatrics.
I wish I could agree but I think the rot is much deeper. These monsters have far too large a following to chalk it up to a few extremists. We are losing the torture “debate” in the public eye, because there is no champion on our side. Cheney is out there blathering and no one is taking him on. That person should be Barack Obama, who has an obligation to call out these mother fuckers for what they are.
This is what happens when an entire society undergoes the Milgram experiments, and “John” here is just another person willing to keep giving the shocks because the nice man in the white coat told him to.
Digby had a theory that the widespread use of tasers has desensitized much of society to the casual use of torture to obtain compliance with authority. I don’t know if that’s what’s done it, but something has gone seriously wrong in our collective abhorrence for these things.
I always go for the man-teat, hypocrite idiots.
I thoroughly believe “John” has the courage of his convictions. Specifically, his conviction that no one know who and where he is. Presumed anonymity lends a lot of courage.
“John,” you post pictures on CL of people who look nothing like you, don’t you? What do you do when someone contacts you? Do you panic because it’s all a lie? How much twisting and lying do you go through to maintain that perverted fanatsy?
Note however, “John” that your presumption of anonymity is precisely that. No one is truly anonymous.
the whole “Water up KSM’s shnoz for plotting to kill 3000 Americans is bad for America” schtick
Of course, when the Khmer Rouge did waterboarding, it was called torture.
But they’re Commies, y’know.
Answer me this, libs: would you rather jump from the burning towers or suckle weakly at George W. Bush’s barren man-teat?
You know what, okay – let’s play your fucked up game. I’d rather lick Chimpy nipples than die.
Your turn, would you rather have a crystal sounding rod smashed into pieces while it is properly implanted, or let Al Gore drive his Hybrid up your Information Superhighway (bu which I mean teh buttsecks)?
DKW, I always go for the buttsecks. I love having throbbing machinery rammed up my manparts.
Digby had a theory that the widespread use of tasers has desensitized much of society to the casual use of torture to obtain compliance with authority. I don’t know if that’s what’s done it, but something has gone seriously wrong in our collective abhorrence for these things.
Personally I’d say it’s that plus the whole “even reasonable moderate liberals say we may need to torture” thing from 2002 or so, plus the torture porn of shows like “24”. We’ve been conditioned to accept it as long as it’s on the “proper people”; much like Germans in the 1940s.
Why do Republicans pretend to not like the Khmer Rouge anyway? They were for torture, and killing people they thought enemies of the state, they were opposed to education and independent thought — I mean, they seem like the popular Republican ideal.
I’ve been through SERE.
I don’t think John would enjoy spending time in a “stress position”.
Those who want a little bit of torture (so long as no one sees it and it only happens to Those People) have perfectly serviceable means to get what they want: they can try to convince a majority of Congress to change the US criminal code and withdraw the US’s signature from the Geneva Conventions and the Conventions Against Torture. Unless and until those things happen, torture remains a crime.
Of course, all those things require, you know, winning elections and being able to craft a legislative strategy, and stuff.
Hello, McFly! Anyone home! Anybody in there, McFly?
THINK, McFly, THINK. You’ve already been told that we’re fine if Pelosi gets what’s coming to her. Don’t be so gullible, McFly.
Digby had a theory that the widespread use of tasers has desensitized much of society to the casual use of torture to obtain compliance with authority.
I think Digby is engaging in a bit of shortsightedness. Police have tortured prisoners for centuries in this country. Ever hear of the “rubber hose” treatment?
“Law and order” types, usually Republicans, will resort to this kind of behavior almost every time out, unless they know they are being watched. Mind you, I’m not singling out America or American law enforcement, I think it’s the nature of law enforcement to “go there” if possible.
However, the balance between the grand American tradition of “rugged individualism” runs smack into the great wall of criminal law enforcement. It frustrates LEO officers that “that guy got off on a technicality” so they look for other ways to get him, and failing that, will make shit up. Happens all the time.
Gitmo and waterboarding is just this writ large and the skirt of “impropriety” torn away.
STILL waiting on John to explain how he expects to last a minute on the board.
I don’t want to say that John has a severe disconnect from reality, but John has a severe disconnect from reality.
OT: finally, Wall Street has some honest traders!
I think Digby is engaging in a bit of shortsightedness. Police have tortured prisoners for centuries in this country. Ever hear of the “rubber hose” treatment?
Her point is not that it’s happening so much as it’s becoming more and more acceptable to use extreme force against the helpless. Which is not a good sign for a society.
Her point is not that it’s happening so much as it’s becoming more and more acceptable to use extreme force against the helpless.
Again, it has been perfectly acceptable in the ghettos of this country for a cop to beat a kid up for a minor infraction rather than drag him down to the stationhouse to fill out an arrest report.
I’s be delighted, thrilled! to have Pelosi, Reid and ANYONE who knew about and did nothing to stop TORTURE spend the rest of their vicious lives in jail.
Shove them in the same jail with Cheney & Rummy. They can play “Hearts” together.
“Italy can survive the loss of Aldo Moro. It would not survive the introduction of torture.”
General Carlo Alberto Dalla Chiesa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldo_Moro#Kidnapping_and_death
Rats won’t provide useful investment information unless it’s tortured out of them.
Actor:
I think Digby is engaging in a bit of shortsightedness. Police have tortured prisoners for centuries in this country. Ever hear of the “rubber hose” treatment?
Oh certainly the police have been using torture for a long time, but I think the difference here is that it is explicitly legal to use tasers. Even when a video makes the rounds of clear taser abuse, you get a pile of right wing authoritarians defending it “that’s what you get for giving the police a hard time!” It went from being the dirty little secret the cops had, to just a routine part of police procedure.
Same goes for the School of the Americas, and “Bell Telephone Hour” in Vietnam. This isn’t the first time America used torture, but it is the first time high level authorities explicitly authorized it and proudly defend their actions. I expect in every war there will be a certain amount of atrocity, even by the “good guys” – but we cross a bright line when we go from “we must castigate such things” to “well they’re necessary and right”
It’s simple. Violence is the (not always last) refuge of the incompetent. Yes, competent people may do violence for whatever reason as well, but6 as an adjunct to whatever strategy they might have. Incompetents don’t have strategies, violence is all they got. We all know what everything looks like when your only tool is a hammer.
Again, it has been perfectly acceptable in the ghettos of this country for a cop to beat a kid up for a minor infraction rather than drag him down to the stationhouse to fill out an arrest report.
Which was usually followed by massive outcry, protests, demands for police accountability, civilian review boards etc.
Lately, not so much, it seems. Especially where gross abuse of state powers from the very top of the gummint is concerned.
to “man this torture stuff is hot“
It went from being the dirty little secret the cops had, to just a routine part of police procedure.
On this we agree: it’s not the use of tasers or torture, but the fact that so many people now know about it and for some fucking incredibly stupid reasons, defend its use.
“Italy can survive the loss of Aldo Moro. It would not survive the introduction of torture.”
General Carlo Alberto Dalla Chiesa
I find it particularly amusing that the good general is named “Church.”
Dick Cheney is telling our enemies that we think torture is acceptable if it saves lives. Our active duty soldiers – potential POWs, all – must be pissed right now.
OT: finally, Wall Street has some honest traders!
Well if a monkey can do it
Which was usually followed by massive outcry, protests, demands for police accountability, civilian review boards etc.
This is a relatively recent phehomenon, however, in my lifetime. When I was a kid, it was not uncommon for the cops to beat the crap out of a kid for “loitering.”
And then for the parents to come down to the stationhouse and kick the shit out of the kid for disobeying the cops. It wasn’t until the 1970s that anyone thought of civilian review boards and such like that.
And of course, many of us even laughed at the Don’t Tase Me Bro kid, but he too did not deserve to be tasered and the event really is sickening. It’s ok to electrocute annoying Ron Paulites who ask rambling questions now.
Kudos to anyone who didn’t, of course, but I’ll confess it took me a few minutes to stomp down the comedic absurdity of it and realize the implications.
Kudos to anyone who didn’t, of course, but I’ll confess it took me a few minutes to stomp down the comedic absurdity of it and realize the implications.
And that was on a college campus with the target of “enhanced interrogatories” being one John Kerry. Imagine if the kid had harassed Dick Cheney.
the fact that so many people now know about it and for some fucking incredibly stupid reasons, defend its use
Because we’ve been conditioned to accept it against the powerless. Tasers, waterboarding, pepper spray, clubbing protestors, rubber bullets, bombing civilians, “collateral damage”, “zero tolerance”, boot camp for kids, “tough love”, spankings in schools… shall I go on?
OT: Big Failywood writers, intoxicated by their success at inventing Frenchmen, decide to invent liberal movie producers
Aww. I just noticed that it only took one mention of Bookmark this to get Troofy to fly, fly away once again. Sad.
Cabbies: not good enough any more.
I find it particularly amusing that the good general is named “Church.”
Unfortunately General Chiesa and his wife were later gunned down by the Mafia in Palermo.
The fact is, Obsama is not really American because he uses eleitist snobby French mustard like dijon on his Hamburger.
Real USAians use plain only bright yellow French’s mustard on their burgers, at least here in the Heartland. Obsama has an authenticity problem.
Shorter Richard Cohen:
Rich white people never do anything wrong, so we need not address the question of whether I would favor torturing them.
Shorter Richard Cohen II:
It’s only gulag when they do it.
Recognizing that this is a parody troll, I do have to say that it is rather rich that “John” is accusing liberals of partisan, irrational hatred of Cheney because he ORDERED and DEFENDS TORTURE while his compatriots are running around criticizing Obama for his CHOICE OF MUSTARD.
Sorry for the caps, but I just can’t emphasize enough how idiotic these people are.
The fact is, http://www.profileshowcase.com/img_prd/000282415007660401.JPG
Goof fucking grief. His biggest success was a Brian de Palma flick?! Give me a fucking break already. He doesn’t have a liberal producer friend. He has no friends at all.
Sorry for the caps, but I just can’t emphasize enough how idiotic these people are.
I would suggest italics, but I just don’t think it is fair to Italians to abuse their script subtype by associating it with torturers, given the views of the good Gen Church.
Goof fucking grief. His biggest success was a Brian de Palma flick?! Give me a fucking break already.
I actually liked Body Double. Surprised this wanktater was involved with it.
OT: Big Failywood writers, intoxicated by their success at inventing Frenchmen, decide to invent liberal movie producers
That’s part of a double-shot of Prejean currently on the Big Hollywood front page. It’s paired with Melanie Morgan’s claim that the Left in its effort to destroy Prejean is just like the House Committee on Un-American Activities except digital.
God bless the Big Hollywood and its vanilla suburbs.
Melanie Morgan is outraged that Sean Penn isn’t trying to suppress Prejean’s critics in the name of free speech.
Carrie Prejean WILL NEVER WORK ON MY WEBSITE AGAIN.
Unfortunately General Chiesa and his wife were later gunned down by the Mafia in Palermo.
Fuck.
My army of gay homosexuals and crazed Katrina refugee Negroes shall make Prejean rue the day! Muahahahaha!
Palin/Prejean ’12
part of a double-shot of Prejean
Double money-shot?
You’re just asking for more Chris Muir.
Update:
Palin/Prejean ‘12
2 girls, 1 cup
You Cannot Escape the Truth
Well, FDR died before the war was over and it’s difficult to indict dead people. Are you just stupid or what?
Palin/Prejean
More like 2 girls, no brain.
Rusty Shackleford said,
Palin/Prejean ‘12
Been suggested elsewhere – Steele/Boehner 12″
Which was usually followed by massive outcry, protests, demands for police accountability, civilian review boards etc.
One time out of every ten thousand, I’d say. And as actor said, recent phenomenon.
Richie not only wanks, he’s WOTD!
He must be very proud of himself.
Mean Jean / Prejean 2012!
Alan Keyes is faking sense!
The sad thing is, that Dick Cheney was trying to save your lives, you ingrates.
“We had to destroy the village in order to save it.”
Shorter entire right wing: “Your honor, my client may have murdered 12 people but at least he didn’t eat their flesh afterwords like that Dahmer feller so can’t you give him one more chance. Lets not focus on the past.”
Shorter shorter entire right wing: We should only torture and murder people for potential future crimes but never punish them for things they actually did.
I’m not going to check it out but now that the psycho sergeant’s name has been revealed to be non-isloamosocialistspanic, I wonder how many of yesterday’s speculators have moved their goalposts already.
The sad thing is, that Dick Cheney was trying to save your lives, you ingrates.
Taking this laughable premise at face value for a moment, I still say I don’t want to keep my life at the cost of my soul.
I’m not going to check it out but now that the psycho sergeant’s name has been revealed to be non-isloamosocialistspanic, I wonder how many of yesterday’s speculators have moved their goalposts already.
He was obviously infected with islamosocialfascist cooties just from being in Iraq.
now that the….sergeant’s name has been revealed
He’s from Texas. Must be a seccessionist.
now that the psycho sergeant’s name has been revealed to be non-isloamosocialistspanic
He’s really a Muslin but the pro-terrorist liberal MSM is hiding his REAL Islamofascimoosibolshiviek name, donchaknow.
We’ve had this debate before. In the 1960s, as the Supreme Court was expanding the rights of criminal suspects, the right wing, law ‘N order types moaned that the cops couldn’t get the drop on criminals without using the third degree.
They lost. Not to fuzzy liberals, but to the experts in law enforcement, especially at the FBI. They knew without exception that if you want your guy just to shout out a name — any name — go with enhanced interrogation. But if you want information, you need to be smart. In fact, it is amazing how many times these experts get reliable confessions even after Miranda and the right to a lawyer. Cheney has all the smarts of the folks who brought us the Salem witch hunts.
Carrie Prejean WILL NEVER WORK ON MY WEBSITE AGAIN.
I dunno. I had double the hits once I got the unexpurgated photos on mine.
The fact is, liberals do not have any idea how real Americans in the heartland live and how they feel, so it is rich that they are attacking someone who has a clue like Richard Cohen and also Dick Cheney by association.
Your bias is not amusing, the Usurper — aka YOUR GOD, Obsama — will be Unseated or Impeached by Memorial Day.
One time out of every ten thousand, I’d say. And as actor said, recent phenomenon
Yea, but the folks who brought up the lack of outcry here have a point, Ken.
See, I always thought of incidents like Rodney King or Anber Louima as tips of the iceberg, and I still think that the fact they were publicized makes them among the ten to twenty percent we actually know about, but there’s something to be said when “Don’t tase me bro” is a national joke.
The fact is, liberals do not have any idea how real Americans in the heartland live and how they feel
You mean like the folks in Iowa who allow gay marriage?
The sad thing is, that Dick Cheney was trying to save your lives, you ingrates.
In that case, isn’t the fact that we’re safely alive, for the most part, reward enough without his also demanding to be forgiven for breaking international law? Doesn’t upholding the rule of law, that justice is done and seen to be done, also serve to keep us safe, and in fact do a better job of it than letting criminals off the hook scot-free? Zounds, any man who really wanted to keep Americans safe should be BEGGING to be tried and punished if convicted! Instead he’s looking for yet another deferment, as if the only person he actually gives a tinker’s damn about is his own self.
I have to question Tintin’s photo. Cohen’s output seems to me to be the stuff that goes into the toilet. There’s a certain verisimilitude lacking in that photo.
Lest anyone forget, here are some photos for John. To take a page from Rush, I call them “Cheney’s Fraternity Hijinks.” Of course John (hell, all conservatives) are not man enough to click on these links.
http://www.antiwar.com/photos/perm/ag9.jpg
http://www.antiwar.com/photos/perm/capt10.jpg
http://www.antiwar.com/photos/perm/ag10.jpg
http://www.antiwar.com/photos/perm/ag19.jpg
http://www.antiwar.com/photos/perm/ag20.jpg
http://www.antiwar.com/photos/perm/ag25.jpg
http://www.antiwar.com/photos/perm/ag21.jpg
Richard Cohen – a voice of the heartland!
tigrismus said,
May 12, 2009 at 19:54
Excellent point.
If indeed it was “country first,” then Cheney ought to be glad to go to trial and if he’s truly right, if people would forgive him for such egregious and unChristian behavior as torture, he’d be acquitted and exonerated.
The fact is, liberals do not have any idea how real Americans in the heartland live and how they feel
I live in Ohio. That isn’t heartlandy enough for you?
Cohen’s output seems to me to be the stuff that goes into the toilet. There’s a certain verisimilitude lacking in that photo.
Ngugi wrote Devil on the Cross on TP. I hope Tintin is not comparing Cohen with Ngugi.
I am seeing some of these for the first time. Caution: Not safe for humanity.
They get more offended by “chocolate Jesus”. That is not chocolate.
http://www.antiwar.com/photos/perm/ag21.jpg
This second one is for all the lying cowards who claim that Cheney is not a murderer.
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/multimedia/2008/02/gallery_abu_ghraib?slide=2&slideView=3
There are many more but I can’t stomach any more.
There are many more but I can’t stomach any more.
But cripes, gm, it was just fratboy hijinks, after all! Just kids blowin’ off steam! No worse than an episode of “Jackass”.
But cripes, gm, it was just fratboy hijinks, after all! Just kids blowin’ off steam! No worse than an episode of “Jackass”.
AHA!
I get how they make the distinction between torture and frat boy hijinks!
So long as Lynndie England kept saying “Who’s yer daddy?”, everyone could justify it as the hijinks of some madcap college age kids!
The right knows what they’re doing is abhorrent and wrong, even if only on some level beneath actual consciousness – they always feel the need to play down what they’re actually doing “frat boy pranks” – “a little water up the nose”, “boo hoo so a terrorist doesn’t get a full night’s sleep!” rather than admit to that actuality of drowning a man tied to a board or making someone stay awake to the point of hallucinations (which I have experienced in just 48 hours without sleep, never mind eleven fucking days).
The euphemisms and coy cutesy descriptions of the torture are a dead give away of guilt.
He says he knows of two CIA memos that support his contention that the harsh interrogation methods worked and that many lives were saved.
OK I gotta shout this, sorry, it’s like cleansing–
IF ANY SUCH MEMOS EXISTED DO YOU REALLY THINK FOR ONE F’IN MINUTE THESE CRIMINAL BITCHES WOULD HAVE KEPT THEM SECRET??? NOT DAMN LIKELY YOU CRAPULOUS CRAPTASTIC FOOL!!!
OK thanks that felt good, oh but also anybody who uses the word “soupcon” complete with that curvy thing on the c is a douchebag.
anybody who uses the word “soupcon”
I’d like some pie with my soupcon, please.
the Usurper — aka YOUR GOD, Obsama — will be Unseated or Impeached by Memorial Day.
Oooh, ooh, ooh… can we bookmark that?
Yes, the right knows what they’re doing. As does Dick Ctcheny.
Let’s see here. The Dick left some files in his office which purportedly prove that whatever was done “worked.” Despite all the huffing and puffing and blowing about how “torture worked,” the only records substantiating the claim are found in the VP’s office. Presumably, these records were created at the time the torture was being conducted.
As soon as the issue gets hot, Cheney immediately and very publically demands the memos be released. Why, it’s almost as though he had prepared for the eventuality!
Too, a few people who were actually involved in the interrogations have spoken up. The FBI guy who sez “BZZZT! WRONG!.” And the CIA guy who has a personal interest in scotching any serious inquiry and who has already been shown to be a liar. Those two are just for example – there are other, similar cases.
I wonder, could master criminal Dick Cheney have known at the time what he was doing was illegal and abominable? Can you say mens rea?
And once again, we’ll probably hear pious cries of “don’t feed the trolls” while Sadlynauts cram their dicks into fetid troll maws like they were mother birds stuffing worms into their chicks.
Oh yeah? Well, people who çall people “douçhebags” for using “soupçon” with a çedille are diaçritical douçhebags. NEENER.
Oh yeah? Well, people who çall people “douçhebags” for using “soupçon” with a çedille are diaçritical douçhebags. NEENER.
But they are not as bad as umlöuts.
But they are not as bad as umlöuts.
What’s an umlöut?
çedille
You get that on the side when you order a soupcon, right?
What’s an umlöut?
Löuts who “um”.
Actor212 @17:26,
I believe Cohen…nice Irish name, I note…
You jest, but “Cohen” and its variants are, in fact, well-documented Irish names, if not especially common ones. They are anglicised versions of several Irish-language names, in most cases Ó Cómhdhain, I believe (which would be pronounced “O’Cohen”; and you thought Hebrew a difficult tongue!). These names are etymologically unrelated to the common Jewish surnames derived from ???, though of course you can also find Irish people called Cohen whose surname is from that source.
True story. Or maybe apocryphal, but good enough to deserve to be true. The composer George M. Cohan, a Roman Catholic Irish-American, once tried to book a room at what was then known euphemistically as a “restricted” hotel. When refused the booking, he sent a message to management — “Apparently we were both mistaken. You thought I was a Jew, and I thought you were gentlemen.”
I shouldn’t fail to mention that another common Jewish name, derived from ???, also has a Gaelic-derived soundalike anglicised as Levy, Levey or Leavy. Cohan married one of them.
… is engaged in what is called “begging the question”
Ah yes, well, that Cohen, be his ancestry Jewish, Irish or anything in between, can chomp down hungrily on a vast bursting sack o’ dicks.
You get that on the side when you order a soupcon, right?
It’s the garniçhe
Ay, Mrs Tilton, ye d’vined me very allusion. Thank ye.
Garçon, there’s a ç in my soupçon.
Garçon, there’s a ç in my soupçon.
…said the patron with an accent gravè
Garçon, there’s a ç in my soupçon.
Don’t shout – everyone will want one.
You guys have a need for virgules?
John @18:00,
I think the American people will respond in kind come election day
Oh, but they already responded at the last election day, my dear. And their response was to remove from office about as many of your beloved torture-enabling war-crime-supporting creationist fascist theocrat child-molesting bible-thumping anticonstitutionalist flat-earther neo-confederate hookworm-infested inbred mouth-breathing knuckle-dragging cracker motherfuckers as one could have reasonably hoped for. And the bloodletting will continue next November, after which — the shrivelled GOP rump plus blue dogs in the Senate reduced to <40 — the war criminals will have nowhere left to hide.
I see that WordPress does not recognise Hebrew letters.
Jew-hating swine.
Then, sir, you may wish to order the flan instead of the crème brûlée.
Öthèrwïse, Ï mäy hävè tö cüt yoü döwn wïth my lïghtçabre.
You guys have a need for virgules?
I prefer the experienced.
You guys have a need for virgules?
Aeneid nothing, thanks.
Aeneid nothing, thanks.
clap clap clap
I was hoping it wasn’t too much of a stretch.
I was hoping it wasn’t too much of a stretch.
So you were Latinus off easy.
The treason of the American left never ceases to amaze me. You liberals oppose torture even after we all know what the mohammedeans do to our captured servicemen and civilians.
In my book there is no such thing as a “war crime”. War is hell, and our side must do whatever it takes to win, no matter how “brutal” or “inhumane” it may seem. The only way to defeat savages, is to act savagely yourself.
The mohammedeans know no other way of warfare, they look upon any sign of restraint or concern for civilian causulties as weakness. Therefore the West must not placate them. We must fight fire with fire. Carpet bomb their cities, set fire to their mosques and villages, torture and summarily execute those terrorists captured on the battlefield.
Do you think the Romans showed any mercy or restraint in their war against Carthage? Neither should modern day Western Civilization. By shutting down Club Gitmo, Obama is showing weakness in the face of those who seek to destroy us. By opposing and banning torture he is showing weakness.
This war will only be won if the West suddenly takes a lesson from the ancient Romans and regrows a set.
Oh yeah? Well, people who çall people “douçhebags” for using “soupçon” with a çedille are diaçritical douçhebags
No, to be specific I called Cohen a douchebag for using the word soupçon in the first place, which you have to agree is one of the most pretentious words we borrowed from the French (and that’s saying something.) But look man I’m going through a diaçrisis right now–you don’t want me to go all ?g?nek on you!
Heh, “mohammadeans”.
You liberals oppose torture even after we all know what the mohammedeans do to our captured servicemen and civilians.
Yes, two wrongs ALWAYS make a right, eh?
POOP. Also.
Shorter Lord Harry:
FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP
Hmm I guess wordpress doesn’t recognize the Polish hook. How do you say FYWP in Polish?
This war will only be won if the West suddenly takes a lesson from the ancient Romans and regrows a set.
There’s a singularity of wrongness protruding from this sentence.
Mo hamma, Deen! And some motherfucking iced tea.
Heh, “mohammadeans”.
mohammedah
bah bah ba-da-bah
mohammedah
ba-ba-ba-bah
mohammedah
ba-bay-ba-bayba-babayba-babaybah-ba-ba-bay-ba-ba
Goat-fucking. Also.
This war will only be won if the West suddenly takes a lesson from the ancient Romans and regrows a set.>
That’s mighty Christian of you, sir.
Also, I thought you just spent a few grafs telling us why we should be more like the people we hate, not the Romans. I’m trying to remember… why do you hate them again? It has something to do with behavior, I think…
And we all know how well that Roman Empire turned out…
But look man I’m going through a diaçrisis right now
I hope your suffering is neither acute nor grave, and that it will be breve.
I hate them my misguided leftist friend because they murdered 3000 American citizens on 9/11 for no reason other then the fact that American is a Christian nation and not a moslem nation.
America is a Christian nation.
Let’s torture some goat-fuckers.
“And we all know how well that Roman Empire turned out…”
Ancient Roman civilization lasted nearly a thousand years. As the Roman Republic 510 B.C. – 31 B.C. and as the Roman Emprie 31 B.C. – 476 AD.
The way the American left is running things, America will be lucky if it lasts ten more years.
The way the American left is running things, America will be lucky if it lasts ten more years.
Errrr, don’t look now, Sparky, but we’ve only been in charge of the enchilada since January.
You boys fucked us royally. Deal with it.
They hate us for our relative lack of goats. And that’s why I hate them.
Let’s torture them, as Christ would have.
OMG!!Zeleventy-one1! LH going for epic troll zwin.
the fact that American is a Christian nation and not a moslem nation.
The Mohammedans cower in fear of your refusal to capitalize a proper noun!
I just want to be clear on this – the verb “fuck” can refer to the penetrator or penetratee. I would never fuck a goat but I do love fucking goats. If you know what I mean and I think you do.
Americans need to grow a pair, like the Huns did, and torture goat-fuckers.
The Hun Empire lasted some certain period of time that I could look up on Wikipedia, which is central to my point.
I retract my earlier demand that America grow a pair (of testicles). America should grow only one testicle so that it does not have a left testicle. The left testicle would destroy America within ten years.
The Roman Empire would have easily overtaken the Heartland of America. They would have raped every man to display their dominance. They had pairs. Big, juicy pairs. The fact is.
I will also consider the possibility that the testicles could be stacked one atop the other.
Whatcha think of this self portrait?
Grow a pair, fags.
I am not the person who is spoofing my name.
Now address my point that we should kill every moslem on the planet, liberals.
Now address my point that we should kill every moslem on the planet, liberals.
Anyone got the Secret Service on hold? This guy just threatened whom he perceives to be the POTUS.
America must also reintroduce slavery, like the Romans had.
Also, idol worship. Rome didn’t do so well once it got suckered into that Jesus-cult.
Of course, no one had bigger balls or treated our enemies more harshly than us, and our thousand year reign is still going strong! Can’t get enough savage brutality when trying to run the world, you see…
Stop spoofing my name!
You liberals won’t be laughing when Barry Soetero beheads Michelle on the White House lawn.
We too found the use of brutality, mock trials and an utter lack of compassion or humanity toward our enemies to be a complete success with absolutely no deleterious side effects.
History remembers us well, and torture was 100% effective. Everyone we tortured turned out to be a witch, it was amazing.
Alright, the post at 22:33 was a name stealer, as were the last several posts.
What I’m saying here is that war cannot be won using modern politically correct standards. Our enemies will look at that as weakness. World War II never would’ve been won if it wasn’t for American and British carpetbombing of German cities.
If America or any other nation fought a war using the rules the left intended, that nation would become the laughing stock of the entire world.
Meh.
Torquemada said,
I can’t even count how many victims of demonic posession & heretics against the Trinity I subjected to “Enhanced Interrogation” in my heyday, & sooner or later, every single one of them confessed!
Be fair to the Spanish Inquisition. One of Torquemada’s successors forbade waterboarding on the grounds that it saved no souls and yielded no sincere confessions, but fostered delusions and fantasies because the waterboardee would simply say whatever the inquisitor suspected.
They weren’t stupid.
If America or any other nation fought a war using the rules the left intended, that nation would become the laughing stock of the entire world.
yea, goodness knows that peace never worked for Switzerland in its quest to be the world banking capital and making gobs of money…
actor, no one has ever attacked Switzerland. Therefore using them as an example is idiotic to say the least.
actor, no one has ever attacked Switzerland.
yea. I wonder how people ended up respecting their sovereignty. It couldn’t be the lack of aggression on their part, could it?
It was because they are a weak nation with no strategic value. Attacking Switzerland would be like attacking Jamacia. Pointless.
The last several posts were not me, clearly.
The left will destroy America because it will not torture goat-fuckers. And to those of you lefties bringing up the Spanish Inquisition: how do we know that everyone of those tortured was NOT a witch?
It was because they are a weak nation with no strategic value.
Right.
Just like a country 3500 miles across an ocean from any other country in Europe or the Middle East.
Attacking Switzerland would be like attacking a cold, mountainous, white Jamaica. Who would do that? I guess a goat-fucker would, since Switzerland is a free Christian nation.
Hey, why haven’t the goat-fuckers attacked Switzerland?
Switzeralnd has nothing. Nothing! Except gold. And jewels. And art. But aside form that, NOTHING!
We haven’t attacked Switzerland because THEY don’t have military bases in our holy lands.
This Lord Harry of yours knows nothing of my work.
Hey Lord Harry, whyncha enlist and come fight us, ya pussy?
Oops! Disregard this post as I forgot to change to my current name.
There, that’s better.
The U.S. oughtta grow a pair and send a clear message: Carpetbomb Zürich.
What I’m saying here is that war cannot be won using modern politically correct standards. Our enemies will look at that as weakness. World War II never would’ve been won if it wasn’t for American and British carpetbombing of German cities.
It really is all about ego for you isn’t it? Who gives a shit if they think you’re weak? You’re the United States, you spend more than the rest of the world combined on your military.
In fact, they don’t think you’re weak, they do think you’re really stupid, and easily provoked into counterproductively lashing out at Islamic countries in a way that fills their ranks with recruits.
And they’re right about that.
Nixon tried it your way in North Vietnam and where did it get him? 2M dead Vietnamese and still the US had its ass kicked by pajama wearing commies.
Nothing to declare, no no. Well, yes – four watches. No! No watches, no precision Swiss watches.
What’s the name of that country that doesn’t make watches at all?
We show up and Lord Harry runs away like a little girl. Typical.
On this we agree: it’s not the use of tasers or torture, but the fact that so many people now know about it and for some fucking incredibly stupid reasons, defend its use.
But that’s not evidence of a widespread decline into ethical abomination, but rather exactly what you expect from cognitive-dissonance reduction. Nothing encourages us to applaud actions that we previously found abhorrent and unspeakable as much as finding out that our government is taking those actions, so the alternative is to feel sick inside and suffer the inconvenience of agitating against them.
We’ll even defend those actions with arguments that are transparently stupid, contrary to facts, and contrary to our earlier position that “We would never do [X}”.
None of us are human.
Which should nail every last one of those Mohamedotians to a cross. That’s what Jesus would do.
World War II never would’ve been won if it wasn’t for American and British carpetbombing of German cities.
Fuck you.
how come the only time wingnuts care what other countries think is when they might – might – think we are “weak”?
Grow the fuck up, dudes. This isn’t second grade playground anymore.
O yes I meant those scare quotes.
Ideal right wing foreign policy really comes down to three words: glass parking lot. It’s the inevitable and logical conclusion of their thinking.
We could behead them all. I believe that if Americans do it, the correct terminology is enhanced shaving techniques.
Bwah bwah bwah, we need to look strong at all times! In no possible way will the constant harping on devastating anyone who dares question our manhood be perceived as insecurity…
Jesus, it really is just them constantly dreading showering in the locker room and everyone seeing how small their cock is.
We could behead them all. I believe that if Americans do it, the correct terminology is enhanced shaving techniques.
According to this Bush DoJ OLC memo, I see that you can enhance shave prisoners so long as you have a doctor present, and the knife you use cannot be rusty or jagged.
Some chink long long ago said why the whingers are failures:
To find and exploit an enemy’s weakness requires a deep understanding of their leaders’ strategy, capabilities, thoughts, and desires and a similar depth of knowledge of one’s own strengths and weaknesses
2500 year old advice and they still don’t get it.
Lord Harry, your fear of the scary brown people is noted but you’re ignoring the primary threat to America today: Janeane Garofalo. What shall we do about her?
We should nail every last one of them to a cross. That’s what Jesus would do.
This is called a “stress position” and has the advantage of already been classified as non-torture by the Cheney gestapo.
Janeane Garofalo. What shall we do about her?
Let me handle her.
Please? Just once? BOOBIES!
This is called a “stress position” and has the advantage of already been classified as non-torture by the Cheney gestapo.
I haven’t thought of this before, but you’re absolutely right. Under the Cheney/Lord Harry doctrine, crucifixion isn’t torture.
I haven’t thought of this before, but you’re absolutely right. Under the Cheney/Lord Harry doctrine, crucifixion isn’t torture.
And it worked, TOO!!
The only “stress position” conservatives know is “erect”. They can’t maintain that one very long.
Lord Harry said,
May 12, 2009 at 22:27
I am not the person who is spoofing my name.
I am not me nor am I I.
mocking, extreme logical abuse, name-calling, disemvoweling…
The only thing that really gets to the trolling class is spoofery.
No it dosen’t!!
This is not me.
The way the pundits are dancing back and forth between “What we did wasn’t torture”, vs. “Torture isn’t necessarily wrong” (and allowing the likes of Cheney to dance back and forth between those positions) brings to mind Jung’s remark*… that “I did not break your vase” and “Your vase wasn’t worth very much anyway” are both fine arguments, but when used together they cast doubt on one’s sincerity.
* He was quoting Freud, if memory serves.
If a government agent attempts to torture you is it legal to shoot him?
Serious question for Troll Harry: In what way, shape or manner do you rationalize being morally better than Bin Laden or Saddam? Is it because you eat pork? Is it because your rape rooms would have Bon Jovi blaring over the loudspeakers? Is it because they are men of action and you, only of words? [God I hope so] Help us understand your warped thinking.
Yeah I know, waste of time.
It’s Tea Time !!eleventy!! Oh Boy !!eleventy!! Oh Boy !!eleventy!!
If America or any other nation fought a war using the rules the left intended, that nation would become the laughing stock of the entire world.
Versus now, where they all think we’re just super-cool #1.
And when did people like you start caring what the world thinks, anyway?
I still say:
Demented, chinless beaver.
Switzerland has nothing. Nothing!
Wrong. It has goats. Plenty of goats.
In Gruyere there’s an entire museum dedicated to PENIS LANDSCAPES. Or Giger, I get confused.
“Carpetbomb Zürich.”
At first I read “Carpetmunch Zürich.” Which is central to my also.
Actor beat me to it! But you can’t have her. She’s number one on my freebie list. It’s laminated and everything. So there!
None of you libs will address my goat anus. I mean point!
Point.
None of you libs will address my point.
I hate them my misguided leftist friend because they murdered 3000 American citizens on 9/11
Not all of them were American citizens, you dink.
You folks seem to have gotten your comments commingled.
Demented, chinless beaver. And goats.
There, that’s more like it.
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Jennifer said,
May 12, 2009 at 23:42 (kill)
I still say:
Demented, chinless beaver.
As do we all, Jennifer. As do we all.
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Julia Grey said,
May 13, 2009 at 0:09 (kill)
I hate them my misguided leftist friend because they murdered 3000 American citizens on 9/11
Not all of them were American citizens, you dink.
Dammit, JG, now he’s gonna need a count.
Heh Indeedy http://ebooks.ebookmall.com/ebook/122811-ebook.htm
Lord Harry
Dear Reader: Lord Harry, one of my first novels, was originally titled Lord Harry’s Folly. I’ve rewritten the story extensively, adding to and changing dialogue, actions, and descriptions, yet the original plot is still here. I’m convinced-and I’m sure you will be too-that the characters are much happier now that they’ve lived with me for fifteen years and taught me more about themselves. Lord Harry is really Henrietta Rolland, a young lady who assumed the guise if a gentleman to track down and kill Jason Cavander, the marquess of Oberlon, the man she believes responsible for her brother Damien’s death at the Battle of Waterloo. She wants to challenge him to a duel. When he’s lying at her feet, then and only then will she tell him why she’s killed him, and who she really is. Unfortunately, there’s a really big snag. You will laugh at Lord Harry’s outrageous adventures. Together, Jason and Henrietta Rolland will touch you-they did me and still continue to do so. Do let me know what you think of my rewrite. Enjoy!
I hate them my misguided leftist friend because they murdered 3000 American citizens on 9/11
Mind you, most of them were probably people whom Trollypants would have called “libs” – or worse – today
Dear Reader: Lord Harry, one of my first novels…
Lord Henrietta, indeed. Heh-indoozle.
@0:38- “Kikes” is the word you’re looking for. He’d call them “kikes”.
Actually, most of the Google hits turned up references to Harry Potter which I hadn’t thought of but makes perfect sense and leads me to believe that he is a pimple faced 17 year old boy typing from his Momma’s basement when he is not jerking off to slasher movies. This thought sort of worries me.
Can we still call him Henrietta? 🙂
But then there is Thomas the Tank Engine so . . . .
http://ttte.wikia.com/wiki/Lord_Harry
If a government agent attempts to torture you is it legal to shoot him?
Under my interpretation of the Second (& Only) Amendment, it would be illegal not to shoot the agent. Remember, aim for the head.