But I distinctly heard a caller on the Republican line to C-Span blaming the entire economic crisis on the Congressional Black Caucus, Maxine Waters, and Barney Frank.

There were no excesses of capitalism — it just wasn’t allowed to work by all the Jimmy Carter / CRA free give-aways of homes to black people. I done heard it.

Phil Gramm never existed. He was made up.

But I distinctly heard a caller on the Republican line to C-Span blaming the entire economic crisis on the Congressional Black Caucus, Maxine Waters, and Barney Frank.

Yeah, I know.

But I think they’ve realized those attacks aren’t working and that there’s much better political gold to be mined from the Obama administration looking powerless in the face of AIG’s bonuses. And they’re kinda right.

Brad, your prescription of renegotiating the contracts is terrific. See? Kristol being stopped-clock right for once is having a salutary effect.

It is funny to watch the repigs twist themselves into pretzels, pretending to be populist.

One thing you can always be sure of with repigs: they twist with the wind, whatever will win them votes is what they are for.

Personally, I’m inclined to give Our President a year or two before I start being concerned. You just want President Obama to fail! He’s changing the face of progressive politics as we know it with hope for change you can believe in and our people powered progressive politics.

I feel dirty.

The two paragraphs before the quoted one are the best writing produced by Bill Kristol EVAH. Damned if I don’t agree with them 100%. It’s fucking gross to find yourself nodding to Kristol’s words – but I did.

Bookmark this, libs: DennytheDem will be disemvowelled when his IP address turns out to be the same as the Authentically Racist Troofy.

Fake troll fails.

Bookmark this, libs: DennytheDem will be disemvowelled…

You’re almost certainly right, but it is sadly the case that you can find people who sound just like him. So while Troofy can tonguejack my shitbox, that was kind of vaguely sort of almost amusing.

Look, if the conservasphere hadn’t been shrieking about doing away with the existing contracts for UAW workers over the last couple of weeks, I don’t think this ever would have come up. I don’t think people (sic) like Kristol have actually thought this through; they’re just acting on lizard-brain instinct that’s saying ALL BONUSES BAD right now. Give them a few months to recover, and they’ll all be back to normal. I think that some folks are giving Kristol some undeserved credit.

But really, the companies that use ‘preexisting contracts’ as an excuse are playing with fire. If the government decided to call their bluffs and say “okay, we’re taking the TARP money back and you’re going to Bankruptcyland,” presto, contracts with existing employees become disposable and nobody gets any bonus. I’ve been wondering if Secretary Geithner might decide to pick a victim and do just that — you know, so that the other TARP-eating companies get the message and fall in line.

Kristol may be right about the need for the GOP to challenge the excesses of capitalism to be politically viable, but does anyone expect that to happen? I’ll try to come up with a mixed metaphor for this one: Biting that hand that feeds you to spite the other hand.

Yeah, Denny, enjoy them vowels while you got ’em.

Kristol may be right about the need for the GOP to challenge the excesses of capitalism to be politically viable, but does anyone expect that to happen? I’ll try to come up with a mixed metaphor for this one: Biting that hand that feeds you to spite the other hand.

Sometimes, the GOP will screw the social conservatives in order to please the fiscal conservatives. And sometimes they act they other way around. IMO, we’re just seeing the pendulum swing a bit, that’s all.

Wow, you liberals do see me everywhere. It’s funny and sad.

In any case, I just signed MoveOn.org’s petition. Now that is not something I expected to write when I woke up this morning.

Personally, I don’t care why Billy K is arguing this, I just hope that all this noise shuts down TARP.

My preferred (unworkable) solution to the crisis would be to amend the constitution so the US government could start a bank. Then instead of buying toxic assets, they could use the capital to start a nice bank that’s able to make loans. The big banks who made bad decisions can go to fail while the new bank can lend enough to keep the economy moving. After we’ve passed the crisis, the national bank could be sold off to recoup the starting capital.

I know, it is far from that simple. Bank busts cost a lot of money to the economy at large. Hey, I heard that for years (~1994 – 2001) the FDIC required $0 from member banks to ensure deposits. It’s like all of the actuaries died and no one left knew about warranty pricing.

But being on the side of a healthy populist reaction to the AIG situation is at least a good political start.

See, there it is. Every reach toward populism by wingnuts is a calculated, win-the-week proposal.

It just goes to show you what even the simplest minds can do when they start by accepting reality, instead of denying it.

It just goes to show you what even the simplest minds can do when they start by accepting reality, instead of denying it.

Respectfully, I think you give Kristol too much credit.

I tried to go to MoveOn’s petition using your link, also Googled and looked through MoveOn’s website. All I’m finding is the “Thank You For Signing” page. Is there something I’m missing?

Thanks.

via Hilzoy,
Quote from Edward Liddy:

On the other hand, we cannot attract and retain the best and brightest talent to lead and staff the AIG businesses — which are now being operated principally on behalf of the American taxpayers — if employees believe that their compensation is subject to continued and arbitrary adjustment by the U.S. Treasury.

Umm, ‘cuz that turned out so well. Here’s an idea, fuck the best and brightest talent – fuck ’em till they turn blue. Those are the shitbags that built the monstrous cave-in we’re all mucking around in today. If those “best and brightest” all decide to fuck off and go John Galt, or whatever it is that assholes with ten figure salaries do – THE WORLD WILL BE A BETTER PLACE. In fact, I imagine that if AIG rounded the lot of them up three years ago, handed them rifles and shipped them to Iraq – AIG WOULD BE IN BETTER SHAPE TODAY.

And in closing, PENIS.

Frum has been making sense lately too. It’s because they’re neo-cons in the truest Irving Kristol lying-sacks-of-machievellian-power-seeking-shit way. They were all Democrats when the Democrats were unbeatable, and switched when the Republicans ascended. They are ideological chameleons, perhaps they enjoy being Republicans more, but they enjoy being out of power less than any other satisfaction they gain from the catechism of Republican/conservative selfishness.

Kristol is too mendacious to have a truly simple mind. Someone like Glenn Beck, sure, he’s as simple as dog turd on the sidewalk. But folks like Kristol and Cheney, while bugfuckin insane, I wouldn’t call them simple.

Well, if the pubbies are all so outraged, why don’t they wait a few months until the AIG extortionists have untangled the mess they created, then introduce a bill taxing all bonuses paid by TARP recipient companies in 2009 at 100%?

Let them clean up their mess, then buttfuck them by taking back the bonuses through the tax code.

Obama is, at best, a cautious, corporate centrist. At best. That’s why it’s so maddening to hear the wingnuts ranting and raving about “socialism” here: It’s like broadcasts from Cloud Cuckoo Land, even moreso than their usual, steady drumbeat of lies and bullshit.

Rhetoric aside, Obama’s probably hoping to muddle through the current crisis without rocking the boat overly much. Don’t expect him to do anything unless he absolutely has to, and even then, he’ll do his best to salvage the whole rotten system that brought this mess about to begin with.

As for Kristol, well, there are all sorts of possible motivations for him to actually talk about Reality for once, and none of them have to do with integrity, honor or the public good. He’s still scum.

FWIW, Brad, I think the MoveOn link you provided only puts your particular name on that petition. The more general petition link is here.

I do feel bad for the AIG employees in the still profitable insurance arm (never thought I would feel sorry for a US insurance company). They didn’t fuck the world, and it’s not really their fault upper management decided that running a good insurance company wasn’t enough, they had to be Enron II also.

The guys in the London derivatives office; fuck them with their own fountain pens. Tools.

Breaking News Alert
The New York Times
Monday, March 16, 2009 — 12:29 PM ET
—–

Obama Tells Geithner to Block A.I.G. Bonuses

President Obama has instructed the Treasury secretary to try
to stop the faltering insurance giant American International
Group from paying out hundreds of millions of dollars in
bonuses to executives, as the administration scrambled to
avert a populist backlash against banks and Wall Street that
could complicate Mr. Obama’s economic recovery agenda.

You asked for it, you got it.

Next.

Oh crap. This is Bill Kristol you are talking about here. He’s always wrong. What if he’s wrong here too? What would the right course of action even look like if he’s wrong?

77south: Remain calm. As someone noted upthread: broken clock, twice a day.

Oh crap. This is Bill Kristol you are talking about here. He’s always wrong. What if he’s wrong here too? What would the right course of action even look like if he’s wrong?

Consider the possibility that Kristol is right at the moment, but for all the wrong reasons.

But before I talk about the new steps we’re taking to get credit flowing to small businesses across our country, I want to comment on the news about executive bonuses at AIG.

This is a corporation that finds itself in financial distress due to recklessness and greed.

Under these circumstances, it’s hard to understand how derivative traders at AIG warranted any bonuses, much less $165 million in extra pay. How do they justify this outrage to the taxpayers who are keeping the company afloat?

In the last six months, AIG has received substantial sums from the US Treasury. I’ve asked Secretary Geithner to use that leverage and pursue every legal avenue to block these bonuses and make the American taxpayers whole.

Consider the possibility that Kristol is right at the moment, but for all the wrong reasons.

It helps to remember that Bill Kristol doesn’t actually want the AIG bonuses to be blocked, he just wants the impotent Republicans to say they would block it if it weren’t for them elitist Demmycraps stopping them.

I’ve asked Secretary Geithner to use that leverage and pursue every legal avenue to block these bonuses and make the American taxpayers whole.

Now, the challenge for Billy Boy here is to stick with his guns. Too bad he’ll hamfistedly attempt to lay wood to Obama in his next column for demonizing American industry.

On the other hand, we cannot attract and retain the best and brightest talent to lead and staff the AIG businesses

Am I so old that I’m the only one around who remembers what the phrase “the best and the brightest” used to signify?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Best_and_the_Brightest

In other news, Mrs. Instapundit #2 has been assembled and is ready for delivery to the University of Tennesee:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/n/a/2009/03/16/international/i070251D77.DTL&o=

Come on guys, I mean, what is the point of being a capitalist if you can’t wallow in its excesses; that is, after all, the entire point. More, more more; greed is good; all heil Ayn Rand; and the rest of the schtick. Surely condemning excesses is straight up communism pure and simple. Has Kristol gone Democrat/Socialist/Communist/Stalinist?

I wonder what the grand poobah Rush has to say about this…

As hinted above, I eagerly await the Republican Congressional proposals to block executive bonuses at AIG and related firms.

Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

The two paragraphs before the quoted one are the best writing produced by Bill Kristol EVAH. Damned if I don’t agree with them 100%. It’s fucking gross to find yourself nodding to Kristol’s words – but I did.

It’s positioning.

Kristol sees an opportunity for the Gooper party to make political hay over a giant problem that they themselves manufactured, but will nonetheless remain a difficult proposition for the Democratic Administration to fix for a long, long time.

The dirtbag has not one decent bone in his body.

Don’t get too giddy just because Kristol wrote something sensible. My guess is that it’s pure opportunism. He’s just casting about for a winning issue for his team, and this one’s as easy as it gets.

Damn you, thunder. This is why I don’t post more…someone always makes the same point about 30 seconds before I do.

Heh indeedy for sheedy, loony libs! It’s about time you finally gulped down my SPREAD of TRUTH: That Boss Bill Kristol is a political genius, and you libs better get out of his way! He was right about how America would love Super Sarah, the Power Palin, and he’s just as right about how Obummer’s AIG is sinking this country! Get on board the Kristoltrain, loony libs! Once us conservatives show how Obummer and Bumblin Barney and ACORN have funded AIG and Fanny and Fredo, the country will take the Dumbocrats out with the trash! Badoodle-boo-yeah and bank on it!

Urban out.

Damn you, thunder. This is why I don’t post more…someone always makes the same point about 30 seconds before I do.

Not to mention me at 17:48.

The country loved Mooseburger SO MUCH that they sent her back to fight the meth lab epidemic in Wasilla.

Although somebody might want to tell Super Sarah about that problem. She seems to be focused like a laser on national political opportunities rather than actually doing the job she was hired for.

“All Veeps bright and beautiful, all Execs great and small, all Derivative Traders wise and wonderful: AIG paid them all. “

You know, CUM or whoever is behind him has a lot of balls to be calling anyone “loony” in a comment like that.

You mean AIG’s gonna be paying my ACORN salary?

In other news, Mrs. Instapundit #2 has been assembled and is ready for delivery to the University of Tennesee:

Clearly the innovators at the RealDoll factory aren’t letting the recession slow them down.

we cannot attract and retain the best and brightest talent to lead and staff the AIG businesses — which are now being operated principally on behalf of the American taxpayers — if employees believe that their compensation is subject to continued and arbitrary adjustment by the U.S. Treasury.

Well, you could convince those footing these bills that you’re only giving bonuses only to folks who didn’t lose billions plus and that those people are otherwise leaving and finding better jobs in this fabulous job market. I doubt either of those are true, the second for obvious reasons, and the first because the prudent ones were probably already penalized for not hitting the sky-pie numbers their crazy coworkers were.

Badoodle-boo-yeah

Troll or not, would you please STFU?

Clearly the innovators at the RealDoll factory aren’t letting the recession slow them down.

Heh. Indeed.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/n/a/2009/03/16/international/i070251D77.DTL&o=1

I don’t understand why we didn’t let all these parasites fail in the first place instead of getting Uncle Sugar to give them our money.

AIG will be ours in approximately 10 minutes.

Heh. Indeed.

I move that we name said robot “Bukakketron.”

I’ve asked Secretary Geithner to use that leverage and pursue every legal avenue to block these bonuses and make the American taxpayers whole.

Hey, here’s an idea: how about firing everyone who is due to get a bonus? That way, not only do you not have to pay the bonuses, you also get rid of the assholes who caused AIG to melt down in the first place. It’s a win-win.

Then after that, of course, we can put them on trial for fraud.

If you want to see real fraud, look at federal programs.

$50 billion of waste in Medicare alone, Bernie Madoff looks up from jail in awe at the feds.

That way, not only do you not have to pay the bonuses, you also get rid of the assholes who caused AIG to melt down in the first place.

Not everyone receiving a bonus would be an “asshole.” Some of those people to whom the bonuses were directed may be fairly low-level and wouldn’t have been in a position to notice the strategic hijinks going on that would have been more apparent to directors and above.

That being said, if you have to come to the Federal well for three multibillion-dollar bailout tranches, I think your employees should be happy to still have *jobs.* IMO, that’s bonus enough when a lot of other people don’t have employment any more.

In other news…

Police say an Iraqi soccer player has been shot dead just as he was about to kick what could have been the tying goal in a weekend game south of Baghdad.

More Iraqis are turning out for sports events now that security is improving. Major matches in Baghdad are heavily guarded but security in amateur games in smaller cities is often lax.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/03/16/sports/s062828D27.DTL

I thought only Alan Keyes could make sense

$50 billion of waste in Medicare alone, Bernie Madoff looks up from jail in awe at the feds.

Even assuming there’s as much Medicare waste as you claim, Madoff’s operation was much more efficient at defrauding people, since he did his work with so few other people involved.

That being said, I’d rather tolerate waste in government-run healthcare than tolerate some chimp at Kaiser or BC/BS or United Healthcare getting a bonus because he decided to deny me coverage. Multiplied by a few thousand times a day across the country.

Alas, it aint as simple as you think. Problem #1 is that the “bonuses” are contractual obligations. If it were legal, I’d like to see them not only stripped but also clawed back for, say, the last two years. So there’s a quandary: do we support the government breaking the law (as the Bush administration so frequently did)? Think over your answer very carefully.

Problem #2 is the enormous risk that an AIG default would be the final straw, leading to a global financial collapse. A catastrophe the consequences of which are almost too enormous to imagine. True, the experts do not all agree that would in fact happen but almost all the experts do agree that the risk is real.

Problem #3 is…well it’s not a problem like the above. I’ve had it up to fucking here with the execs trying to blackmail us with the “best and brightest” bullshit. The “best and brightest” should have been sacked long ago, right along with the top honchos.

Not everyone receiving a bonus would be an “asshole.” Some of those people to whom the bonuses were directed may be fairly low-level and wouldn’t have been in a position to notice the strategic hijinks going on that would have been more apparent to directors and above.

Based on what I’m reading, the bulk of the bonus money is going to the derivatives traders. So, those would be the assholes I was referring to.

The $165 million was payable to executives by Sunday and was part of a larger total payout reportedly valued at $450 million. The company has benefited from more than $170 billion in a federal rescue.

AIG reported this month that it had lost $61.7 billion for the fourth quarter of last year, the largest corporate loss in history. The bulk of the payments at issue cover AIG Financial Products, the unit of the company that sold credit default swaps, the risky contracts that caused massive losses for the insurer.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/03/15/national/w123922D46.DTL&tsp=1

OB-GYN Kenob, I suppose you would rather have a government bureaucrat chimp deny you coverage instead based on government rationing.

What incentive does some bureaucrat have to give you the best health care possible? None.

Under a private system the doctors and insurance companies want to make a profit, so they have a reason to give you the best care–as “evil” as making a profit sounds to liberals.

PeeJ, read Greenwald today. AIG could easily find a pretext to break, or threaten to break the contracts and win concessions on bonuses from the execs if they wanted. No doubt there is some kind of performance clause in the contracts, which the execs must have violated by runninng the fucking company into the garbage.

At worst, the execs sue and win. Fine. It’s contract law, not criminal law. Let’s see who is shameless enough to actually file a suit that says to the public “I broke the world’s biggest insurance company and I demand my fucking bonus!”

Libertarian:

OB-GYN Kenob, I suppose you would rather have a government bureaucrat chimp deny you coverage instead based on government rationing.

Absofuckinglutely I would prefer this. If I don’t like his decision I can vote to have his boss fired.

In practice, this never happens.

-Canadian.

Alas, it aint as simple as you think. Problem #1 is that the “bonuses” are contractual obligations. If it were legal, I’d like to see them not only stripped but also clawed back for, say, the last two years. So there’s a quandary: do we support the government breaking the law (as the Bush administration so frequently did)? Think over your answer very carefully.

Respectfully, there are plenty of legal ways around that. I don’t know what NY employment law looks like, but any AIG employees who work in a right-to-work state can be cashiered at any time, for any reason. I can see the conversation now: ‘If you don’t agree to forego your bonus, we’re going to fire you.” In addition, I doubt very much that the “contractual obligations” we’re hearing about are anything of the sort. Rather, I believe them to be incentive pay arrangements that have plenty of escape clauses written into them that would allow AIG to beg off paying if business was sour. One wonders what sort of corporate counsel AIG has if it has iron-clad ‘gotta-pay-me’ bonus arrangements with a half-trillion dollars worth of directors and executives. Stupid, I’d say.

Further, if fraud or fraudulent conveyance can be demonstrated, then the legal obligation to pay bonuses falls by the wayside. This is particularly applicable with respect to senior personnel who may have had knowledge of what was going on. And to add sugar on top, I don’t think there’s a court in the land that would rule that a flat-broke company would be obligated to use emergency taxpayer-provided keep-us-afloat money to do anything other than fund ongoing operations.

Based on what I’m reading, the bulk of the bonus money is going to the derivatives traders. So, those would be the assholes I was referring to.

Fair enough; thanks for the clarification.

“Under a private system the doctors and insurance companies want to make a profit, so they have a reason to give you the best care–as “evil” as making a profit sounds to liberals.”

You have no clue how insurance companies make money do you?

“they have a reason to give you the best care–as “evil” as making a profit sounds to liberals.”

Yawn. Yeah, just like the urge to make a profit led those derivatives traders to make wise investments.

Insurance companies want to make a profit, so they have every incentive to provide as little coverage to their hostages customers as possible.

You do realize that you’re going to end up with the same coverage as people on medicare get–i.e., poor people, right liberals?

No, they have a reason to provide you with the most profitable healthcare, which is distinctly different; preventative and community health initiatives aren’t moneymakers, but surgery and batteries of diagnostics and expensive scans and imaging are

“You do realize that you’re going to end up with the same coverage as people on medicare get–i.e., poor people, right liberals?”

I’m already poor, fuckface.

Under a private system the doctors and insurance companies want to make a profit, so they have a reason to give you the best care

That’s one of the most unfunny contradictory statements I’ve read in a long time.

OB-GYN Kenob, I suppose you would rather have a government bureaucrat chimp deny you coverage instead based on government rationing.

Yes, I would.

What incentive does some bureaucrat have to give you the best health care possible? None.

What incentive does some corporate clerk have to give me the best health care possible? None. In fact, he’ll get a bonus if he denies coverage to enough people. That’s the situation we have now.

Under a private system the doctors and insurance companies want to make a profit, so they have a reason to give you the best care–as “evil” as making a profit sounds to liberals.

Your data and presumptions are faulty. There is *no* reason for a for-profit HMO or PPO to provide “the best care.” There is plenty of reason for them to provide ‘good-enough care.’

There are truckloads of cases of people being denied coverage by for-profit HMOs and PPOs for covered conditions. I’d rather take my chances dealing with an organization that *doesn’t* incent its clerks to deny care, inflate its costs and shortchange its patients on care.

Under a private system the doctors and insurance companies want to make a profit, so they have a reason to cut corners to make sure they get as big a piece of the pie as possible.

Fixed your typo.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why my home jurisdiction should outlaw P3s — the government has no incentive to shave off the top to pad its bottom line.

Haven’t read GG yet but I just saw that someone is saying the same things over at TPM. Don’t get me wrong: I’m all for castrating those greedy little fuckwads and feeding them their balls as a bonus. But …but I demand that whatever happens conforms to existing law. If GG or anyone else can find a legal framework for feeding them nuts, I’d gleefully help out.

the same coverage as people on medicare get

I know very well what Medicare is, how it works and what it does.

Do you? I don’t think so.

MedicAID is for poor people. MediCARE is for the disabled and the retired.

Go educate yourself, troll.

The troll clearly misunderstands health care economics if he thinks insurance companies earn money by paying out for care.

“You do realize that you’re going to end up with the same coverage as people on medicare get–i.e., poor people, right liberals?”

And if you’re not “poor” before having to pay for a chronic and/or catastrophic illness or injury under our current system, whether you’re insured or not, you most certainly will be poor afterward.

You do realize that you’re going to end up with the same coverage as people on medicare get–i.e., poor people, right liberals?

Fine with me. Medicare works.

Tom Daschle wrote in his book that we should make older people more willing to accept “hopeless diagnoses” and give up expensive and “experimental ” treatments under a government run system to save money.

How is this not government-run eugenics?

Do you really want some D.C. agent ordering your doctor what treatment to provide, even if you can and are willing to pay for the more expensive treatment? Should a government parasitic worker deny you that?

Something beginning with the letters R-E-D-S-T-A-T-E-R.

And what about all the illegals that will latch on to our health system?

Do you want millions of dirt-poor illegals coming to Uncle Sugar for freebie medical care?

Stupid troll is stupid.

Citation for Daschle quote, please.

If someone is ever willing and able to pay for “more expensive treatment” or whatever they want, then they will be able to acquire it. You obtuse fuck.

Aww. Poor Kwistol. Looks like the GOP now considers his advice to be toxic:

Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl (R-AZ) blamed the “tone deaf” bankers for creating the political environment that allows Obama to call for a cap.

“Because of their excesses, very bad things begin to happen, like the United States government telling a company what it can pay its employees. That’s not a good thing in America,” Kyl told the Huffington Post.

“What executives have done is troubling, but it’s equally troubling to have government telling shareholders how much they can pay the executives,” said Sen. Mel Martinez (R-FL).

Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK) said that he is “one of the chief defenders of Obama on the Republican side” for the president’s efforts to reach across the aisle. But, said Inhofe, “as I was listening to him make those statements I thought, is this still America? Do we really tell people how to run [a business], and who to pay and how much to pay?”

Someone needs to be disemvoweled.

It’s R-E-D-S-T
My baloney has a second name
It’s A-T-E-R-75

For my OT of the morning,

It was only a matter of time and the concept is better than the execution but this (possibly NSFW) proof that God created us is tres amusant.

Tom Daschle wrote in his book that we should make older people more willing to accept “hopeless diagnoses” and give up expensive and “experimental ” treatments under a government run system to save money.

How is this not government-run eugenics?

Who here has argued in favor of that? Hint: before bringing up something one lefty said in order to discredit ALL lefties, test the waters first by asking if any of the lefties with whom you are dealing even AGREE with the shit you’re about to pull out and use. kthxbye.

Do you really want some D.C. agent ordering your doctor what treatment to provide

Yes. We already have corporate accountants doing the *exact same thing.* I would rather have people making those decisions who are *not* incented to cut corners and deny care.

even if you can and are willing to pay for the more expensive treatment?

Ever hear of “healthcare tourism?” Americans do it too.

Should a government parasitic worker deny you that?

Better than a faceless corporate drone whose only motivation is to deny enough coverage to get a bonus for the quarter.

There are some realms of human endeavor that are appropriate for private profit-making, and some that are not. Delivering clean water, taking away dirty water, etc. are some of the endeavors in which making a profit is NOT appropriate. Health care is another. You do realize, don’t you, libertarians, that if you don’t have money, you won’t get health care?

“Making a profit” has NO place in health care.

You do realize libertarians are the stupidest fucking people in the world, don’t you, libertarian?

How is this not government-run eugenics?

Don’t understand eugenics, either, do you?

Piefilter!

Who gets to decide what is “appropriate” to make a profit in and what isn’t?

And what about all the illegals that will latch on to our health system?

Do you want millions of dirt-poor illegals coming to Uncle Sugar for freebie medical care?

OMG POOR BROWN PEOPLE ARE COMING TO UNPLUG OUR BRAINDEAD LADIES WTFLOL

Objection! Assuming facts not in evidence. Also, shifting the goalposts with an appeal to racism.

BTW, I’ll ask again because no one has given an answer:

And what about all the illegals that will latch on to our health system?

Do you want millions of dirt-poor illegals coming to Uncle Sugar for freebie medical care?

Again, you are assuming facts not in evidence, troll.

Obama is already a FAILURE.

As Rev. Wright would say, “THE CHIIIIIIICKENS! ARE COMIIING HOOOOOME!! TO ROOST!!”

and sorry for the ad hominem (to the sadlys, I don’t care about glibertarians) – I shouldn’t even be commenting while at work, but the vicious combination of ugliness and stupidity revealed by this sort of philosophy enrages me, and I can’t explode at my co-workers…

Obama is already a FAILURE.

Stick a fork in the troll; he’s done.

libertarians would approve of the likes of AIG derivatives traders, Enron bright boys, etc. to be the ones deciding how clean his tap water is…

Who gets to decide what is “appropriate” to make a profit in and what isn’t?

I do.

Do you want millions of dirt-poor illegals coming to Uncle Sugar for freebie medical care?

Yes. Now fuck off or SUBMIT to the GREAT DISEMVOWELLER!!!1!!!!1!!!

We wash your dishes, cut your lawns, build your houses, take care of your children, cook your food. The list goes on and on. We pay payroll taxes too, pinche Gabacho.

libertarians (and repugs) like being able to kick their sick brown servants to the curb and then call ICE…

Do you want millions of dirt-poor illegals coming to Uncle Sugar for freebie medical care?

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

Who gets to decide what is “appropriate” to make a profit in and what isn’t?

second mznicky -I do. you fucking fuck.

We crowd your schools, sponge off your welfare, crowd your roads, destroy your environment, raise your crime rates, and overcrowd your country.

Is “Uncle Sugar” the relative/family friend who extracted sexual favors from the troll in exchange for candy? And could this have formed his concept of “profit”?

Libertarian has now fully convinced me that we must drive our nation into poverty with an unsustainable health care system in order to ensure that brown people can’t get immunizations. That’ll show ’em.

Give us the AIG bonuses. We guarantee we’ll perform better than the chinga Gueros who drove your country into a ditch.

That’ll show ‘em.

that’s what it’s all about, isn’t it? Someone the libertarian/repug disapproves of might somehow get a tiny bit of benefit from tax money. The country world should be in smoking ruins before that hideous possiblilty can occur

Ya Know, based on this Hotair thread, I’m not so worried about Republicans taking the populist mantle anytime soon:

http://hotair.com/headlines/?p=33911

“Who gets to decide what is “appropriate” to make a profit in and what isn’t?”

Not you, fuckwit. Get used to that idea. Now kindly fuck off and die.

Insurance companies want to make a profit, so they have every incentive to provide as little coverage to their hostages as possible.

Not to mention: who in the hell would go to a doctor that just wants to make a profit? I din’t know we had to incentivize the Hippocratic Oath. Insurance companies…well, they’re beholden to their shareholders, and many of them aren’t physicians, so your inconvenient and expensive cancer treatment is a threat to the bottom line. Give me your money and die.

We crowd your schools, sponge off your welfare, crowd your roads, destroy your environment, raise your crime rates, and overcrowd your country.

And here we have the evidence. Trollie isn’t really concerned so much with healthcare. He just wants his guaranteed profits and to not have to ever actually see any of the dirty poor brown people. Racist jackass.

Wow. It’s almost like a buncha you guys actually MISSED the trolls.

Have you been jonesing for a chance to argue with idiots again?

Amazing…

mikey

You other brothers can’t deny

when a troll shows up with a itty-bitty skull
and ignorance in your face
you get sprung

One last thing, and then I had better get back to work: We – the reality-base community, the liberals – are really the selfish ones, aren’t we? We know OUR lives will be better if other’s lives, the others that we actually live with in this world (not the fantasy-others of sick libertarian fiction) have better lives. We are better off when people aren’t cast into dire poverty because of a health problem. We do better when people can keep their houses, and can have jobs. We do better when we are old and feeble and the kids are kind to us rather than mugging us, because they had a decent education and health care growing up. This could go on and on into a book, but it is basically why I think libertarians are the stupidest fucking people on the planet. They live in a shiny little fantasy world with no relation to reality.

“They live in a shiny little fantasy world with no relation to reality.”

Are you talking about Socialists?

Yeah, the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany sure worked out well in reality!

Dumbass.

erm… sorry for troll-feeding. I will slink back to work now.

Problem #1 is that the “bonuses” are contractual obligations.

So were the union salaries Republicans demanded be lowered before automakers could get TARP funds. Add to that the fact that no one is forcing banks to take bailout money, and that contracts would certainly be altered if the banks failed and were taken over by the FDIC, the “contractual obligations” gambit doesn’t carry as much weight as bankers would like.

If you piled up all of the money we’ve tossed into the AIG black hole into one huge stack of dollar bills, they would form a tower only one-third as stupid as Bill Kristol.

Blart.

OMG…not only does Barney Frank agree with me, but Richard (Dick” Shelby does as well:

Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) appeared on the “Today” show this morning and took some time to talk about AIG’s bonuses-for-failure problem. “[S]ince the federal government … now essentially owns that company, maybe it’s time to fire some people,” Frank said. “We can’t keep them from getting the bonuses, but we can keep some of them from continuing in their jobs.”

Around the same time, on “Good Morning America,” Republican Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, who doesn’t agree with Barney Frank on almost any issue, said he’d like to see Congress intervene. “We ought to explore everything that we can through the government to make sure that this money is not wasted,” Shelby said. “These people brought this on themselves. Now you’re rewarding failure. A lot of these people should be fired, not awarded bonuses. This is horrible. It’s outrageous.”
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_03/017310.php

What’s this world coming to?

Have you been jonesing for a chance to argue with mercilessly taunt idiots again?

Yes. Release the trolls!

I’ve got a great big roll of Necco Wafers for you, my sweet little Libertarian.

Now spread those cheeks and PROFIT!

Yeah, the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany sure worked out well in reality!

Two regimes well-known for their “open borders” policies!

Well the USSR did collapse in part because it had too many different nationalities. Part of the causes of its death was what liberals call “diversity”. Ditto Yugoslavia and Austria-Hungary.

Hmmm…

Don’t the bonus contracts have some language in them explaining what performance the bonuses are contingent upon? And can anyone argue that the performance of AEG warranted the bonuses?

I don’t get it, this contract business. If the contract we’re so afraid to break doesn’t have something that allows you to withold bonuses from crappy performers, then who the heck is writing AEG’s contracts? They shouldn’t be getting any bonus, either.

I notice some Medicare waste talk, too, and without delving into it too much, I’ve read that much of the “waste” is what we would more correctly call fraud, which is directly tied to the profit motive. See also: the banking crisis.

Well the USSR did collapse in part because it had too many different nationalities. Part of the causes of its death was what liberals call “diversity”. Ditto Yugoslavia and Austria-Hungary.

Pure racist twaddle.

Carry your worthless self back to Stormfront, troll. They’ll buy what you’re selling.

Really?

Why did Yugoslavia and Austria-Hungary collapse then OB-GYN?

Why isn’t Ukraine, Kazakhstan, etc still happy to be provinces of Russia if “diversity” is great?

Well the USSR did collapse in part because it had too many different nationalities.
If all you’ve got is a racist hammer, then everything looks like multicultural nails.

I was under the impression that the USSR collapsed due to the sheer power of Ronald Reagan’s charisma!

Well the USSR did collapse in part because it had too many different nationalities.

WHAT? you mean it wasn’t our Great National Hero St. Ronnie’s doing, after all?

For that matter, why all the outrage over the Han Chinese owning Tibet?

I don’t buy the “great man” theory of history, thanks.

OK you win. Diversity sucks. So do open borders.

Now kindly get back in your damn boats and return to England.

Heh, Iroquois Confederacy proves my point, though he probably doesn’t even realize it.

What, is the disemvoweler broken again? Damn techies.

It’s ours. We stole it fair and square.

Why did Yugoslavia and Austria-Hungary collapse then OB-GYN?

Why isn’t Ukraine, Kazakhstan, etc still happy to be provinces of Russia if “diversity” is great?

Anyone who thinks that the collapse and breakup of those nations is primarily or even mostly attributable to a *single* cause is deluding themselves. There are dozens of internal and external causes in each case. Predictably, you focus on the one that relates to culture and race.

Look, you’ve already outed yourself as a xenophobic racist; do you really think anyone here’s going to treat you seriously? More to the point, do you think you’re actually going to change any minds here now?

Well the USSR did collapse in part because it had too many different nationalities.

I thought it collapsed when Reagan drove into Moscow with the 3rd Armor Division?

I’m not xenophobic. I like visiting foreigners–in foreign lands.

When too many foreigners of a different race/nationality move into MY home country though, at a certain tipping point it leads to strife and conflict (see: Yugoslavia, the former USSR, Austria-Hungary, South Africa…etc).

I’m curious, OBGYN, what do you think of the Chinese colonizing Tibet?

I’m reminded of the line from Blazing Saddles:

“We’ll take the niggers and the chinks but we don’t want the Irish!”

When too many foreigners of a different race/nationality move into MY home country though, at a certain tipping point it leads to strife and conflict (see: Yugoslavia, the former USSR, Austria-Hungary, South Africa…etc).

Hark, the mating cry of the racist xenophobe.

You would have been right at home in 1818. Or 1842. Or 1885. Or 1912.

Oh, FYI, I don’t think you meant to suggest that *immigration* was the root of the Soviet Union’s race problems. Although a good case for it being the root of South Africa’s race issues could be made. If only those white settlers had stayed at home and left the locals alone.

I’m curious, OBGYN, what do you think of the Chinese colonizing Tibet?

I’m curious what *you* think about it.

“Why did Yugoslavia and Austria-Hungary collapse then OB-GYN?”

Because the Allies put their their political heft behind individual provincial autonomy and intervened accordingly to affect that end, nimrod.

“I’m curious what *you* think about it.”

I don’t think its much different from what the Mexicans are doing to our Southwest.

“Oh, FYI, I don’t think you meant to suggest that *immigration* was the root of the Soviet Union’s race problems. ”

Unequal birth rates and too many national minorities was, though.

I agree with you about South Africa. The South African blacks would be much happier without the “diversity” of white settlers.

I’m curious, OBGYN, what do you think of the Chinese colonizing Tibet?
c.f.
When too many foreigners of a different race/nationality move into MY home country…

Fucking Tibetans moving into Tibet and causing all that trouble for China.

How the fuck did the conversation turn from bashing a libertarian shithead into debating the merits of a pluralistic society?

Troll: for-profit health care is a glaring failure that proves the pure capitalist model of your ideology is an utter failure and that’s why no one takes libertarians seriously. The only reason you’re less reviled than conservatives is that they actually had power to implement their shitty ideas.

don’t think its much different from what the Mexicans are doing to our their Southwest.

fixed.

“Fucking Tibetans moving into Tibet and causing all that trouble for China.”

Heh, no, it’s Han Chinese colonizers moving in and causing trouble for native Tibetans.

“G” has just proved my point again.

They want to take California, Texas, Utah, Arizona, Nevada, and New Mexico back to Mexico through demographic conquest, and the liberals are letting them do it out of a misplaced sense of white guilt and political correctness.

I thought the mating call of the xenophobe Glenn Beck talking.

Let’s see if Geithner actually follows orders and DOES something. He won’t want to mess up his old buddies’ gravy train, but there are way too many people paying attention right now for him to hem and haw.
Unemployed folks in this kind of job market will pay attention to such things, I figure.

As for Kristol… blart.

Heh, no, it’s Han Chinese colonizers moving in and causing trouble for native Tibetans.

Dude, you can’t even keep your stupid fucking arguments straight.

You need to shove off.

“…WAS Glenn Beck talking.”
And I can’t even blame WordPress.

My point is “diversity” is a net drain and destabilizer of society, not a strength as liberals like to pretend.

This is true whether it is in Tibet, South Africa, or Yugoslavia.

You need a dominant ethnic/racial group or all hell breaks loose.

They want to take California, Texas, Utah, Arizona, Nevada, and New Mexico back to Mexico through demographic conquest

My Hispanic wife says you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Now you will post some links and or quotes of scary matter from brown folks. You will suppose that they prove your point.

Libertarian,

Humans are not rational economic actors, and do not have perfect information as is required for a pure market approach to function. Your ideology is exactly like communism in the following: interesting theory, wrong species.

Ask your wife about “La Raza” and “Aztlan”.

Or how about these statements from her brethren?

“Prof. Jose Angel Gutierrez (University of Texas, Arlington) “We have an aging white America. They are dying. They are shitting in their pants with fear! … I love it!” — [Speech of Jan. 1995, quoted in Coe, Reconquista, p. 16.] ”

Art Torres (former chairman, California Democratic Party) — “Remember, [Proposition] 187 [the measure to cut public benefits to illegal aliens] is the last gasp of white America.” [The Social Contact, Summer 1998, p. 290.]

Hmm? How do you explain those statements?

I was just trying to get a rise out of you. Worked!

Of course, by saying:

They want to take California, Texas, Utah, Arizona, Nevada, and New Mexico back to Mexico

you just prove something too, by showing you accept the fact that it was originally theirs! See how much fun that is?

Hmm? How do you explain those statements?

jerks saying stupid things? Works for me.

We conquered it from them, and I believe we should keep it g.

Perhaps you feel differently, and believe in national suicide.

Wow, timely quotes from 1995 and 1988 (sans actual citations of course), and the evil Mexicans STILL haven’t taken over the American Southwest? What are they waiting for?

As I said, “Now you will post some links and or quotes of scary matter from brown folks. You will suppose that they prove your point.”

*Way* ahead of you on all points, Champ.

“Hmm? How do you explain those statements?”

I don’t have to explain them, as I didn’t make them. Tell you this, though — they don’t make me micturate in my pants as they apparently do you.

Number of Hours Worked Since Bailout Agreement X Hourly Minimum Wage = Executive Bonus

Maybe you’d think its funny if we turn our country into a crime-ridden, third world hell hole like Mexico but I don’t, “legalize”.

It’s foolish to assume that territory taken from Party A by Party B in warfare isn’t subject to Party A’s future desire to re-take it.

What’s even more foolish is for Party B to assume that because they once prevailed against Party A, it means that they’re morally superior, and entitled to their victory in perpetuity, and that it’s immoral for Party A to think otherwise.

Pick your war, pick your side, the above applies to all.

Heh, no, it’s Han Chinese colonizers moving in and causing trouble for native Tibetans.

Oh wow. Wow. Just. Ummm. Wheeeee!!!!111 – What’s it like finding TownHall columns too intellectual?

For lunch today, I had a nice brown rice – smothered in Bi-Bim sauce and a few slices of hungarian salami. A weird combination, but I was pleasantly surprised. Could have used some vegetables (and maybe a lightly fried egg), although I did have a V-8.

I guess we should let the British have the East Coast back then, “G”.

Boo!

*sadly deletes sadly bookmark, shuffles off to find funny somewhere else*

How about Quebec? Do you think Quebec should be able to secede from Canada “G”?

The Liblartarian = The Blarthentic.

Also, blart.

How about Quebec? Do you think Quebec should be able to secede from Canada

I think that the rest of us should be able to secede from you.

We can put a few cases of MREs in a little boat and shove you into the Gulf Stream. Eventually, it should take you someplace with lots of white folks. Be sure to tell them that you’re not invading.

BTW, I bet when you said “Hispanic” she isn’t a mestizo but a Castillan or white Mexican.

Typical limousine liberal.

“Maybe you’d think its funny if we turn our country into a crime-ridden, third world hell hole like Mexico but I don’t, “legalize”.”

No, I just think it’s hilarious and somewhat pathetic that uneducated, lying bigots like you actually believe that”our” country is turning into “a crime-ridden, third world hell hole like Mexico,” based on some quotes from fellas with absolutely no measure of power (yes, and I’m sure you can find some more scary quotes from people with scary last names) from over a decade ago, and yet you express zero outrage over actual crooks who have ACTUALLY succeeded in turning the U.S. into a failed economic state. It’s hilarious in the same way that it is hilarious that assholes like you will ensure a 2d term for Barrack Obama, and the further demise of the GOP. You’re a bed-wetting coward with no facts, no experience and nothing but racist fever dreams informing every ill-informed post. You have no grasp of history or economics yet wonder why no one takes you seriously when you express opinions about either.

It’s not a question of “should” – wars over territory don’t happen only if permission is granted.

News Update:

Obama Orders Treasury Chief to Try to Block A.I.G. Bonuses

NYT.

BTW, I bet when you said “Hispanic” she isn’t a mestizo but a Castillan or white Mexican.

And I bet you’re wrong.

Typical limousine liberal.

Typical smug internet bullshit artist with a bad guess.

Do you think your neighbor should be allowed to put a fence 6 inches into your property line?

No, but you probably think you should be allowed to put a fence 6 inches into your neighbor’s property. The guy doesn’t even cut his grass properly, anyway.

Has a nice ring to it, doesn’t it?

I’ll second that blart.

What Legalize said.

I’m confused. Are we a bunch of elitist limousine liberals or a bunch of leeching welfare queens?

You guys are so incompetent you can’t even keep your own straw-man arguments straight.

Dude, you’re a Libertarian like I’m a Martian.

Leeching elitist welfare-limousine liberal queens.

Back around to the topic of the post …

Unions Launch TakeBackTheEconomy.org, Linking Bailout Protests to Employee Free Choice

I wish these unions would consider the devastating costs of the AIGFP people going Galt. I shudder – shudder, I tell you – to think what would happen to the country.

Loneoak’s comment:
Kristol is too mendacious to have a truly simple mind. Someone like Glenn Beck, sure, he’s as simple as dog turd on the sidewalk. But folks like Kristol and Cheney, while bugfuckin insane, I wouldn’t call them simple.

Brings to mind one of my favorite passages from Gene Wolfe’s Book of the New Sun:
Gurloes was one of the most complex men I have known, because he was a complex man trying to be simple. Not a simple, but a complex man’s idea of simplicity. Just as a courtier forms himself into something brilliant and involved, midway between a dancing master and a dplomacist, with a touch of assassin if needed, so Master Gurloes has shaped himself to be the dumb creature a pursuivant or bailiff expected to see when he summoned the head of our guild, and that is the only thing a real torturer cannot be. The strain showed; though every part of Gurloes was as it should be, none of the parts fit.

WOLVERINESNERDS!!!!!

News Update:

Obama Orders Treasury Chief to Try to Block A.I.G. Bonuses

NYT.

And right on schedule comes the repug cognitive dissonance:

What executives have done is troubling, but it’s equally troubling to have government telling shareholders how much they can pay the executives,” said Sen. Mel Martinez (R-FL).

How stupid or mendacious are these guys? Doesn’t owning 80% of the damn company make us the shareholders?

Ahem.

We conquered it from them, and I believe we should keep it g.

The Chinese conquered Tibet during the Qing Dynasty. Do you believe they should keep it?

How stupid or mendacious are these guys? Doesn’t owning 80% of the damn company make us the shareholders?

To be fair, in some cases, the amount of TARP funds provided presently outstrips the entire market cap of the company being bailed out. For example, when I checked Bank of America’s figures last week, the TARP funds provided to them so far were three times their entire market cap. Where I come from, paying three times what something’s worth and not getting title to it is a bad deal.

Sadly, No! Overlords:
Will you PLEASE. For the love of Christ. BAN these shitbags. Why are you guys allowing this to happen to your blog? What’s the point? I seriously don’t understand. You want the traffic hits? You love the trolls more than you love us your devoted regulars? I really hate the thought of finding another blog hangout. Or, even worse, finding something useful to do with my time.

Where I come from, paying three times what something’s worth and not getting title to it is a bad deal.

A bad deal for whom? Aye, there’s the rub.

A bad deal for whom? Aye, there’s the rub.

But this is central to my point.

To be fair, in some cases, the amount of TARP funds provided presently outstrips the entire market cap of the company being bailed out.

Right, and that’s due to the over-leveraging schemes that the “best and the brightest” came up with to create their little shadow economy. I’m just amazed at how tone-deaf the reublicans continue to be.

OK, I’m amazed at the sheer chutzpah of the bankers to, but this whole is amazing in really, really awful ways so…

Be sure to tell them that you’re not invading.

Please admit one (1) pasty sociopath, without hinderance or let, to your moolah archipelago. He promises to bring his own bootstraps.

commie atheist:

Am I so old that I’m the only one around who remembers what the phrase “the best and the brightest” used to signify?

Absolutely not. I was actually thinking that very thing (The B & the B. Haw haw. How ironic, I thought.) last night, when someone used the phrase on the tube.

FWIW: AIG isn’t a bank, it’s a global insurance conglomeration. And their govt. $$ deal isn’t the same as a bank bailout. Having said that: Contracts are legally binding documents that are negotiated and renegotiated and broken and redone all the time. Nothing is carved in stone that says they have to pay these bonuses. And the idea that those in charge of giving out or receiving bonuses can be shamed into calling the whole thing off is laughable. Shamelessness is an integral part of big corporate operating procedure.

AIGamemnon.

That is all.

Also: If you set your clock Euro-style, Kristol, et al are only right once a day, which is more in tune w/ the universe, etc.

FWIW: AIG isn’t a bank, it’s a global insurance conglomeration. And their govt. $$ deal isn’t the same as a bank bailout.

Point well taken, but market cap is market cap. And AIG’s market cap is $2.2 billion right now.

http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/AIG

So if we’re going to throw money down the black hole named AIG, why don’t we own that outfit already? Why are we even talking about giving them another multibillion-dollar bite at the apple?

Contracts are legally binding documents that are negotiated and renegotiated and broken and redone all the time. Nothing is carved in stone that says they have to pay these bonuses.

Yep. The auto-workers had to renegotiate their contracts. If the AIG bonuses are “unbreakable” then the unions need to hire whoever wrote those bonus clauses.

But seriously, we can’t take away their bonuses. Them derivatives traders are counting on that money to make ends meet! It’s like the half million salary cap on bankers taking public money – totally untenable! Remember this gem from last month?

As hard as it is to believe, bankers who are living on the Upper East Side making $2 or $3 million a year have set up a life for themselves in which they are also at zero at the end of the year with credit cards and mortgage bills that are inescapable

I can’t help but think that people taking in $2 or $3 million a year and still maxing out their credit cards shouldn’t be bankers.

I can’t help but think that people taking in $2 or $3 million a year and still maxing out their credit cards shouldn’t be bankers.

One wonders at what income level the “personal responsibility” bugaboo ceases to be applicable.

We conquered it from them, and I believe we should keep it g.

This is exactly how the taxpayers feel about AIG.

Troll thread/real thread synergy, who’d a thunk?

AIGamemnon

AIGamenmnon is hectoring us.

Obama needs a new mentor.

The biggest disappointment of this administration has been the old timers Obama’s brought in and supported. Lose these hacks and do something different. Do something right.

HuffPost has a post explaining one extant legal method to forestall the bonuses:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-zelinsky/larry-summers-stop-the-ai_b_175151.html

There may, of course, be others. I personally like the Fraudulent Conveyance route myself. But that may be more applicable to the Merrill situation.

Real Mikey is right, y’all have a disfunctional relationship with the trolls. You seem to like them and it just doesn’t look, well, productive. Of the laffs.

I don’t know what happened to this place but I don’t like it.

Again I say, this whole thing could be easily addressed with a simple change to the tax code stating that all 2009 employee bonuses awarded by firms reliant on TARP funds to stay afloat are subject to a federal tax rate of 100%.

It’s perfectly legal.

I can’t help but think that people taking in $2 or $3 million a year and still maxing out their credit cards shouldn’t be bankers.

But if you spend all your cash on blow and hookers how else are you going to pay for the groceries for the illegitimate child you had with your mistress? That’s why Jeebus told us how to make plastic.

Has there ever been a libertarian who wasn’t a flaming asshole?

Has there ever been a libertarian who wasn’t a flaming asshole?

No.

This has been another edition of…

Has there ever been a libertarian who wasn’t a flaming asshole?

I actually knew one, although I haven’t seen him in forever. Very nice guy, dedicated family man, etc. – ran for state office in California as a Libertarian in the early 1990s. It may be that there used to be decent Libertarians but not anymore; it is possible he’s become an asshole or a non-Libertarian since.

I propose that we call these John Galts on their bullshit, and completely exempt them from paying all income tax, with the provision that they must pay for all public goods and services they consume on a per-use basis.

Drive on a road? Fifty cents per mile. File a lawsuit? Pay a fee to use the court system.

Not only is Barack Obama committed to destroying capitalism, he is also committed to destroying the Bill of Rights.

His plans to reinstate the Clinton Assault Weapons ban is unconstitutional and yet a further example of his blatant disregard for American Liberty and tradition.

Thats not surprising to say the least, coming from a guy who was born in Kenya and not legally fit to be President. Why won’t Hawaii release his birth certificate? He says he was born in the states, what does he have to hide?

internet petitions to be signed? ZOUNDS! that’ll bring the boy king back to his senses. pssssst libs–your party is bought and paid for. obama is just as beholden to big money and bankers as anybody else. sorry you’re finding this out so late.

Hey, looks like the troll has been 86ed. Excellent.

In other news…Sarah Palin picks pro-lifer and Planned Parenthood board member as Supreme Court Justice!1!1!1!!!

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin had to make a tough choice in filling a vacant slot on her state’s Supreme Court: Appoint a woman who once served on the board of Planned Parenthood, or risk giving an environmentalist lawyer, also pro-choice on abortion, the chance to become an activist judge.

Mrs. Palin, a pro-lifer who ran as the Republican vice presidential candidate last fall, rankled social conservatives by choosing Anchorage Superior Court Judge Morgan Christen, the woman with Planned Parenthood ties, over Eric Smith.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/15/state-law-gives-palin-no-choice-but-pro-choice/

Apparently Super Sarah, the Power Palin, had no, ahem, choice but to pick either an evil abortionist or an evil environmentalist, and so decided to alienate the fundie forced-birthers rather than the fundie flat-earthers.

What a world, what a world…

Geez, guys, get on the same page. Is he destroying capitalism or is he beholden to big money?

You know life is good when the conservatards can’t even agree which slander to use.

Damn – kill one troll, and two more spring up in its place. Where’s that disemvoweler?

Not only is Barack Obama committed to destroying capitalism, he is also committed to destroying the Bill of Rights.

Thats not surprising to say the least, coming from a guy who was born in Kenya and not legally fit to be President. Why won’t Hawaii release his birth certificate? He says he was born in the states, what does he have to hide?

You are too late. Our Dark Lord shall prevail. All your wallet are belong to us. You shall be forced to endure universal healthcare, and your daughters shall date men of races not their own.

Ia! Ia! Shub-Obama!

Is he destroying capitalism or is he beholden to big money?

Both. The man’s evil knows no bounds.

obama is just as beholden to big money and bankers as anybody else

Hard to argue against this on one hand; you look at his appointments and all signs point in that direction. And yet, would McCain have been any better in that regard? It’s basically the corporations that run the game, and the best we can hope for with Obama is that he has a basic sense that as many people should be able to participate as possible, contra what we’ve seen the last eight years with Bush and the Republicans.

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin had to make a tough choice in filling a vacant slot on her state’s Supreme Court: Appoint a woman who once served on the board of Planned Parenthood, or risk giving an environmentalist lawyer, also pro-choice on abortion, the chance to become an activist judge.

Wow, it really is tough to choose between dogwhistle conservatard non-issues from 2004 and 2006.

Apparently Super Sarah, the Power Palin, had no, ahem, choice but to pick either an evil abortionist or an evil environmentalist, and so decided to alienate the fundie forced-birthers rather than the fundie flat-earthers.

I bet the issue with the environmentalist was more alienating the oil barons than flat-earthers, though you have a point about them. Either way, it shows something about where her priorities lie, doesn’t it?

Both. The man’s evil knows no bounds.

I think I know No Bounds, too. Didn’t he play for the pre-Jordan Bulls?

pssst here is another secret: not everybody who disagrees with the liberal hivemind agrees with each other. most other so-called conservatives are dolts. i’m of the jeffersonian school and i don’t want to see the government in the business of business, period. no corporate socialism. no bailouts. no quangos. nada.

and it’s becoming increasingly clear that the boy king IS in the thralls of the same corporate interests that poisoned the bush years. or at the very least he’s powerless against them. while he shakes one fist and yells at the clouds, the other hand is taking corporate cash and handing over the keys to the kingdom.

Damn – kill one troll, and two more spring up in its place. Where’s that disemvoweler?

A Lernean troll?

Ia! Ia! Shub-Obama!

OB-GYN, is this a dog whistle?

Hey, Whitey Blart-ger, after all that time you spent insisting there was no racist component to your name, you might wanna come up with a snide nickname for the president that DOESN’T feature the word “boy”.

OB-GYN, is this a dog whistle?

That depends. Lemme hear yer bark.

“most other so-called conservatives are dolts”

ftfy

Quit making me roll in my grave.

That depends. Lemme hear yer bark.

I am aware of all Lovecraftian traditions.

Tekeli li! Tekeli li!

I bet the issue with the environmentalist was more alienating the oil barons than flat-earthers, though you have a point about them. Either way, it shows something about where her priorities lie, doesn’t it?

The article mentions that S.P. was concerned because the pro-environment guy wanted to name beluga whales an endangered species, which would have impacted the oil companies’ ability to drill, baby, drill, so you’re absolutely correct, X.G.

I am aware of all Lovecraftian traditions.

Tekeli li! Tekeli li!

Asenath Waite sent me.

handy: mccain/palin was a pitiful ticket. in many ways a mccain admin would have been worse….he was committed to staying committed to the most expensive, pointless occupation in the history of american imperialism (which began under DEM harry truman in 47)

mccain/palin was a pitiful ticket

They’re all pitiful when they lose.

Asenath Waite sent me.

I met her at a party thrown by some daring young Bohemian types.

i don’t want to see the government in the business of business

Ah, so you’re safely irrelevant, then. Not so much an ivory tower as a porcelain yurt.

he was committed to staying committed to the most expensive, pointless occupation in the history of american imperialism (which began under DEM harry truman in 47)

Please clarify, pinche puto baboso gabacho.

Sorry for feeding the troll, folks, I just want to know what the fuck he means.

Also, POOP!

I met her at a party thrown by some daring young Bohemian types.

I think I saw you there. Was it in Red Hook?

I think I saw you there. Was it in Red Hook?

It was a fashionable suburb of Innsmouth.

IRL, the best place to go for a spleen sandwich is on Union Ave between Red Hook and Gowanus.

How come I never get invited to the good parties? It’s because I’m swarthy, isn’t it?

It was a fashionable suburb of Innsmouth.

As if there were such a thing. But don’t miss the fish chowder when you’re passing through.

Sorry for feeding the troll, folks, I just want to know what the fuck he means.

The only thing that makes sense is Korea, which, you see, is just like Iraq, so when McCain was saying we might stay in Iraq for 100 years, he was just comparing it to…

Never mind. I don’t really care what the fucking troll means. Stupid troll is stupid.

Powerful people failing upwards into even greater wealth through either corruption or incompetence has been the Republican ideal for several decades now. If that upward epic fail can be somehow financed from the public trough, all the better. The reason they won’t take Kristol’s advice is that, deep down, they don’t have a problem with it.

I am just scratching by glabrous pate trying to figure out if the toolburger wrote:

(which began under DEM harry truman in 47)

as a modifier for:

the most expensive, pointless occupation

or

the history of american imperialism

Re-reading his post, I think he may be arguing for pulling the troops out of Europe, but it’s such an off-topic curveball that I just had to throw him the proverbial Scooby Snack just to satisfy my morbid curiosity.

I’m so frazzled, I can’t even make a HPL joke… JPL joke, even.

If you want to throw up, look at Darrell Issa’s twitter feed that says things like “Just on Hardball blasting AIG/Bush/Obama boneheads who dropped 170 billion with no strings attached.” As if the Congressional Republicans have been fighting against corporate greed (and Bush, for that matter) all along. It is to laugh.

He’s a moron, anyway, but his hypocrisy is what really sets him apart.

Drive on a road? Fifty cents per mile. File a lawsuit? Pay a fee to use the court system.

Sure. And all those patents? The entire patent enforcement system, courts, FBI and so on should be paid for by a percentage of profits revenue. What’s that? It already is? Except it’s the taxpayer who’s paying for it? Oh, well never mind then. We’re happy to pick up the tab.

We’ve been happily paying for the FDA and NIH to help big pharma develop drugs so we’ve just gotten used to it.

Aaahh. We’re tired of your childish tactics. Go Galt already. Get the fuck out. GO AWAY.

Ah, yes, the Bush/Obama administration. I believe Newtie has been taking that one for a spin lately.

Georgie W., we hardly knew ye.

White Knight, there’s easily as much if not more diversity in thought among the Left as there is among the Right. If nothing else, unlike the Right, the “Establishment Left” seems much less willing to embrace, appease, or associate itself with what are percieved to be the “fringe” elements of their ideological bent, no matter how good their ideas might be.

Just because the Left apparently uniformly have ideas that you disagree with (I can say the same about the Right, personally) doesn’t mean they’re all the same ideas. Using terms like the “liberal hivemind” when trying to assert that the Right is unfairly painted as monolithic in thought just make you look like an hypocritical asshole. It’s a shame, really, as you seem like the least brain-damaged of the trolls that won’t go away.

But, yeah, I guess that’s what happens when you feed them….

Lookit them try to attach Obama to Bush. They are PA-THET-IC. Plus the AIG $$ was anything but “no strings attached.” For one thing, AIG is desperately trying to unload some of their subsidiaries, as per the terms of their bailout, in order to PAY BACK their govt. funding, as per the terms also of their bailout.

… there’s easily as much if not more diversity in thought among the Left as there is among the Right.

Fix’d, plus, “the Left” (which is still very marginal in this country) doesn’t automatically and reactionarily defend every public figure whose words and/or actions may be (however tangentially) construed as “liberal.” We’re as repulsed by Dem con artists and dipshits as we are by Repig ones. Well, almost, cuz “our side” we expect to know better, and so when they fuck up we want them gone.

The problem with the troll is that he lives in a house constructed out of all the straw men he has built over the years, and any disturbance of a single straw will leave him bereft, in the wilderness, blinking his piggy eyes in the harsh, cold light of reality.

Libertarian, HA! He’s just too embarassed by the last eight years to call himself a Republican.

Also, this.

The popcorn. Pass it.

just as the autoworkers have had to renegotiate their contracts with GM, Ford and Chrysler.

What is this? Ford hasn’t taken any money, only GM and Chrysler.

I think I know No Bounds, too. Didn’t he play for the pre-Jordan Bulls?

Yep. AKA Dennis Awtrey.

“Do California Republicans have a plan to productively channel all this anger, other than picking off a few lawmakers through recalls or primary challenges?” he wrote last week on Flashreport.org. “Is there any strategy in place – or even the thought of a strategy – other than the game of randomly selecting names out of a hat to dole out punishment?”

No.

This has been another edition of…

Dennis Awtrey – Also known as “Dennis Awtry.” Click on card on lower left:

http://www.checkoutmycards.com/Players/Basketball/Dennis_Awtrey/353086

Quelle embarrassement.

Yo! Attention all NY Metro Area Sadlynauts. Neil Degrasse Tyson will be speaking on Wed, March 18 at the Bell House, 149 7th St. (between 2nd and 3rd avenues) in Gowanus, Brooklyn Subway: F to 4th Ave; R to 9th St. Three dollar cover to defray event logistics expenses.

Now, time to start celebrating part of my heritage by living up to the negative stereotype. Slán agus Beannacht, folks.

Exit stage left, singing:

A stor mo chroi, in the strangers’ land
Where there is wealth, and there is wailing.
Gold and gems adorn the rich and grand,
But there are faces with hunger paling.
Oh, the road is weary and hard to tread,
And the lights of the cities may blind you.
You will turn, a stor, to Erin’s shore,
And the ones you left behind you.

Lynn Cheney was taken to a hospital today after fainting. Must have been a reaction to Obama’s press secretary comparing Dick Cheney to Rush Limbaugh.

Dennis Awtrey is my new hero.

Jumping ahead to say, what MzNicky said at 21:35.

Brad must have broken the disemvoweller.

liberal hivemind: gee, you mean like people telling here telling me what i must necessarily believe if i’m not a liberal? gosh, that does sound frustrating.

re: american imperialism, it was under truman that we made the decision to be in a permanent state of war to justify the defense industry buildup. this was the passage of the national security act (nsc-68). ever since then, the military industrial complex has reigned supreme, as eisenhower had the courage to admit himself in a fit of conscience near the end of his term. the defense buildup led to the ascendancy of the culture of deficits which has subsequently all but crippled us as a nation. again, this was all begun under a democratic administration.

y i i oiia o, u e aay(?) e eei e o?

…again, this was all begun under a democratic administration.

So the republicans will lead us free from our military-industrial complex enslavers?

Hallelujah!

Memorable quote from Dennis Awtrey:

Dennis Awtrey learned a valuable lesson from Dick Garibaldi, his basketball coach at Santa Clara University.

“He taught me to be the pounder, not the poundee,” Awtrey said.

So libertarian, what do you think of all the european jews emigrating to Palestine?

liberal hivemind: gee, you mean like people telling here telling me what i must necessarily believe if i’m not a liberal? gosh, that does sound frustrating.

It’s difficult to tell if you’re intentionally missing the point, or just being stupid. You’re engaging in precisely behavior that you condemn, which makes you a hypocrite. Great job, dude. We’re all so very inclined to listen to whatever pithy witticism you have to make now.

Oh fer fucks sake…

’twas Beasts that killed the Beauty.
RIP, S,N.

Words of Wisdom

Res Publica

As seen by moi at the haus of Tres Toros.
~

Quelle embarrassement.

Which part is embarrassing? The mis-spelled name, or the hair and ‘stache?

Of course, the bestest baseball card ever is still:

http://www.sportsbastards.com/media/4/20061115-Ripkenffcard.jpg

Kristol talking sense? Hmm. I wonder why I’m reminded of Bush in 2000, earnestly promising to Americans that he’d be the education president, bring “compassionate conservatism” to America, protect the environment & reverse the trend toward more fruitless foreign adventurism?

He’s bullshitting – I can tell because his lips are moving.

Bonuses schmonuses – compared to the bailouts themselves (let alone the king’s ransom that’s been siphoned out of the global economy via corporate cupidity) it’s chump change. Double them, eliminate them, or leave them as is – it won’t make a rat’s ass of difference unless America’s willing to confront the sheer malevolent parasitism of its financial elite head-on & take away their ball for real, not just symbolically.

Why is everyone still thinking small? Try petitioning Obama to overturn or amend the “Fiduciary Gains Uber Alles” law that makes being a sociopathic viper mandatory & you may see some light at the end of the economic tunnel that isn’t an oncoming locomotive. Otherwise you may as well lube up, reach for China & get ready for the Thains & Santellis to deliver the next dose of trickle-down love a few years hence.

Oh, & arguing with a libertarian is like jerking off with your feet – you can call it an accomplishment if you want, but you still look pretty bloody silly doing it.

Asenath Waite sent me.
The Waite kid? I remember her leaving a flaming bag of dog-poo on my doorstep on Hallowe’en..
Actually I’d rather it had been dog poo.

time to start celebrating part of my heritage by living up to the negative stereotype
Presumably you speak of the non-scaly part of your heritage. I shudder to think what you do to live up to that negative stereotype.

Also: If you set your clock Euro-style, Kristol, et al are only right once a day,
I personally keep sidereal time, and thus am right every 23 hours and 56 minutes.

Kristolbill shows some light with the anarcho-capitalists and you say ‘gulp?’

Brad, I have a rubber chicken, and I am not afraid to use it.

Good night, moon.

the party that defends democratic capitalism

No one else found that amusing?

Way back in 19*cough* *hrm* (the 70’s) I had an early “digital” clock radio. After I dropped it on the floor, it showed the time as 26:79 and the like. I could read it, the alarm still worked and I was a poor college student so I kept it. People would see it and get puzzled looks on their faces. A brave few asked me about it. “What the fuck” was the ussual form of the query. “It’s metric” I would say. Most of ’em just said ‘Oh, I see.”

“It’s metric” I would say. Most of ‘em just said ‘Oh, I see.”

METRIC! OMG great story.

Good night, moon.
Time and tide are right every 12 hours and 15 minutes.
Alternatively, a stopped clock waits for no man.

Because I would not stop for time and tide,
they kindly stopped for me,
but then they complained that I was 15 minutes early.

I broke my calendar.

I had always assumed that the rest of the Sadly.Nocracy were on Centaurian time, standard thirty-seven hour day.

standard thirty-seven hour day.

If only. Then a person might be able to get something done.

Between this and Pat Buchanan pining for the New Deal and Glass-Steagall during his McLaughlin Group appearance, my world, she has gone all topsy-turvy.

Cats lying down with dogs, and whatnot. This means the aliens really are coming in the tail of that comet! What next? Townhall union drives? American Thinker fundraising for Planned Parenthood? Confederate Wankee learning to speak English? Teh Pantload swearing off the Cheetohs?!?!

It’s all too much for me.

Maybe Rick Santorum can save us. He’s even more reliably wrong than Bloody Bill.

Oh, crap. We’re fucked either way. Apocalypse it is!

Also, I just pooped. A lot. On your dog.

Figuring out the right policy going forward with respect to toxic assets and the rest is, of course, a major intellectual task.

Value everything from the day Gramm-Steagal was repealed and the Counterfeiting operations were legalized.

Also, I just pooped. A lot. On your dog.

Just for that, I’m going to pound the farts out of you!

That is some funny shit, there. Thanks.

oops, Glass-Steagall

I must have been thinking of the Gramm’sStealit Act of 1999.

I rule!
At fuckin’
My job
Is truckin’
Don’t stop
Keep suckin’

I must have been thinking of the Gramm’sStealit Act of 1999.

Also known as the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Future-Rape-of-the-American-Taxpayer Enablement Act.

But being on the side of a healthy populist reaction […] is at least a good political start.
Does Kristol at least get some credit for the unparalleled honesty of his naked cynicism and opportunism?

But if capitalism is to survive, shouldn’t the Republican party, the party that defends that denies the possibility of excesses from democratic capitalism, be particularly vehement in denouncing its excesses?
— Not so much Fixed, as rephrased in Smuttish.