Not for the Faint of Heart
Here’s some classy commentary from Amber Pawlik’s old haunt, Men’s News Daily:
(I’m gonna put this below the fold because, trust me, it’s not for the faint of heart, and not in an “oy this is stupid” sort of way. It’s seriously extremely offensive. You have been warned.)
Sex, Security and PC Heresy
By Max Ross
“Treat a lady like a whore and a whore like a lady and you’ll never go wrong.” Words of wisdom from my late uncle, an average looking fellow who was 5’7″ bald, slightly overweight and had more ladies on the string than I could count. How did he do that?
Well, judging from his quote, he paid for a lot of whores.
After the end of his first marriage (but regrettably not his last) Uncle Donald always had a date… always.
Working at a morgue will do that for you.
As my own father was something of a dolt when it came to the true nature of women, my dear uncle was kind enough to explain to me a great many things.
“First, treat a whore like a lady. Second, treat a cadaver like a whore. Third, treat a lady like a cadaver.”
Almost universal among mammals, ‘nature’ has mostly opted to leave the desires of females out of the equation in regards to procreating.
Uh, I pretty sure it was “nature” that gave women clitori, Max…
Yes, females are more receptive at some times, but the male in most of these species, especially primates, generally takes a female at his whim.
And because Max never evolved above the level of primate, he knows what he’s talking about.
Human beings are not much different than are tree swinging, sexually uninhibited cousins in this respect. Men are psychologically hardwired for sex and women are emotionally hardwired for security, and both genders are willing to trade one for the other.
So ladies, you should only sleep with a guy if he gives you money. Sure, that technically makes you a whore, but it’s the way nature made you.
Hunt, gather, fight, copulate? these are the four basic ‘drives’ of man. Whether you believe in evolution, creation or intelligent design, the human male is uniquely designed and desirous to accomplish these tasks.
Max is living proof that intelligent design is bogus, since no intelligent entity would ever create something so stupid.
In human men, sperm production is so ridiculously high that 23 men in a period of one month could produce enough gene juice to impregnate and repopulate the entire planet, currently standing at around 6 billion…
Max sounds like a pretty romantic guy, ladies. I dunno about you, but just hearing him say all them purtty words makes me want to get sprayed with his gene juice.
Basically, the boys were designed to ‘hit’ as many females in the shortest period of time, whether the women want to mate or not. Through out human history this has been the ‘natural order.’
Yes, throughout human history, rape has been the “natural order.”
One of the most interesting web sites on the subject of ‘consensual non-consent’ is taken in hand, ran by a lovely woman who truly believes women and men are better if the man is in charge.
Especially if they’re the type of guys who read Men’s News Daily:
Sarah Penny (definitely not her real name) has mused on many occasions as to the excitement and security of being taken forcibly by a man. ‘It is soooo hot’ she mention during one conversation. In her most explosive article to date “When Rape is a Gift” Sarah explains the following to ‘civilized’ men who are interested in pleasing an adventurous woman:
“He must have faith that she knows what she wants and is willing to take the risk. He must believe in his ability not to misjudge the situation, and in the woman’s ability to deal with it well if he does. He must be willing to be profoundly and intensely intimate with the other person.”
So real men never need a woman’s consent, since they use their hyper-masculine instincts to detect a woman’s true desires.
In other words, don’t listen to her- you know she wants it.
From a civilized standpoint, a Judeo-Christian standpoint, people would write this off as heretical, dangerous and degrading to women.
That is how most people feel about rape, yes.
But what if she wants it that way? If this is the natural order and men have evolved or were designed to breed regardless of context, is it not possible or even probable that females have a deep, abiding need to be taken, dominated and then provided for? Yes Hunt-Gather-Fight-Screw is important, but what about Gestate-Lactate-Nurture-Educate, the four basic drives of a woman?
Well Max, your own mother certainly failed in the “education” department. I bet she has a big ol’ penis.
Someone needs to raise the young and females are primarily designed and qualified for this task.
That’s right, they’re designed to live with the consequences of male rape sprees.
In the context of consensual non-consent, both parties are simply acting out what has been programmed into them genetically. Of course, in a modern society all of this interaction requires order… men can’t ‘have’ anyone they want, and women have a way becoming ‘control freaks’ if left to their own desires.
So if a woman tells you “no,” she’s just a bitchy control freak who wants to shove you into her womb.
In my own experiences, no less five lovers have confessed their desire to be taken and ravaged. Two of them wanted it at random; after work in her parking garage, the other suggested I break into her home and wait.
“A third suggested that I strangle her to death and have my way with her rotting corpse. Hey, it’s what Uncle Donald always did!”
On neither of these requests did I acquiesce. It sounded like a great way to get shot, beat up by some guy wanting to be a hero or (gasp) what if I got the wrong woman? Orange suits, cages and a ‘boyfriend’ named Bubba don’t appeal to me.
No, but it’s probably what you deserve.
Sarah and her friends are welcome to their desires and maybe someday this will be alluring, but under the current realities of gender relations, the ‘natural order’ will have to wait.
“Yeah, I used to rape five women a day before the liberals in Washington said it wasn’t ‘politically correct.'”
Anyway, Max’s blog has a “comment” section. I urge you to let him know what you think (and tell ‘im Sadly, No! sent ya!).
OK. Deep breath: I can’t take on the whole thing, but as a former anthropology major, I will set this flaming a–hole straight on what George Galloway might call a “schoolboy howler.” Max defines two of man’s instincts as “Gather–Hunt.” To him I say: You freaking idiot. If you can even define these activities as instinctual (I’ll let that pass), a look at an Anthro 101 textbook would tell you that in hunting and gathering economies, the division of labor is: males hunt and FEMALES GATHER. This is even a bedrock supposition of many “biology is destiny” jerks: the females have to stay close to home to care for those babes and the men can go a-rangin’ for days at a time to hunt the big caribou or whatever. Stupid freak can’t even get his stereotypes right. And by the way, cultural ecologists (I think that’s the term; it’s been a long time) say that in such economies, it’s the females’ gathering activities that provide the bulk of the nutrition that sustains the population; the meat the men bring home is an occasional, undependable resource. But hey, if he wants to lump Instinctual Man in with the calico-wearing, lactating homebodies that are Woman in his scheme of things, I’m not going to comment on his blog, but if anyone wants to take this raw material and use it to shame him, please feel free.
Damn
Lucy- I feel your pain. I almost regret posting his article. But I would like people to let him know what they think so he’ll get shamed into submission.
Seriously, whatever nasty name you want to hurl at him, go right ahead. He deserves it.
Brad, surprisingly, I suppose, I don’t find this “offensive.” I mean, if he were president or a senator or the head of NOW or something, I would be on my feet marching toward his office with a flaming torch, but as it is, he’s just one of the many cheap, deluded losers out there. It reads like an article in one of those he-man magazines of the 1950s. Or maybe it’s because you did such a brilliant job taking him down that he doesn’t bother me. It was so, so funny! This is one of my favorite genres of commentary: the line-by-line ridicule. Keep it coming.
Brad, surprisingly, I suppose, I don’t find this “offensive.” I mean, if he were president or a senator or the head of NOW or something, I would be on my feet marching toward his office with a flaming torch, but as it is, he’s just one of the many cheap, deluded losers out there.
Well, yesterday’s extremist is tomorrows ambassador. Let’s not forget that Adam Yoshida’s views on international relations are more or less the same as John Bolton’s.
OK, I’m heading over there to let him have it.
YEEEEEEAH!!!! Lu-CY! Lu-CY!!! 😉
You’re right; this wasn’t just bad. It’s horrible. However, I’m afraid a lot of outraged commentary will give this ass the attention he feels he deserves.
Looks like Max is totally ignorant of the intricate psychology of “rape fantasies” and has decided that some women secretly like rape, and eventually it’ll be okay to rape women. I mean, am I off?
I think what I wrote sounds better over there because I didn’t call him names. Thanks for the push. 😀
You’re right; this wasn’t just bad. It’s horrible. However, I’m afraid a lot of outraged commentary will give this ass the attention he feels he deserves.
Yeah, that’s why I have mixed feelings about posting it. Even so, it was not an easy thing to resist.
Looks like Max is totally ignorant of the intricate psychology of “rape fantasies” and has decided that some women secretly like rape, and eventually it’ll be okay to rape women. I mean, am I off?
Nope, and that’s why I think he deserves to be mocked and humiliated. Even if, say, two people who read MND read his article and adopt his attitude, well, that’s two too many.
Yeah, this type of shit deserves mockery and humiliation, but sometimes I think these people are of the “any attention is good attention!” and “If the feminazis hate me, I must be right!” variety.
Anyway, I left a comment for Amanda at Pandagon, too.
Er, to bring it to her attention, that is.
I must say, I’m tempted to unleash the members of the LiveJournal Feminist community upon him. Hoo boy.
I must say, I’m tempted to unleash the members of the LiveJournal Feminist community upon him. Hoo boy.
To paraphrase Claudius in HAMLET… “Do it, Anne!” 😉
Dear Peanut Gallery,
At no time did I say ‘rape was ok.’ I’m just noting that five former girlfriends liked/ had rape fantasies. On the two that wanted something ‘random’ I said ‘no.’ And none of this was my idea… women have fantasies too!
Yeesh… you people are such bufoons. Maybe if you actually read the article I could take your criticism seriously.
Love and Daggers,
Max
“Yeesh,” Max, how did you reach the conclusion that we hadn’t read your article? I think you know we did. That is a standard sleight-of-hand that many people try to pull when they’re criticized: “You didn’t listen to/read what I actually said, so I’m not going to dignify your criticism with a response.” We did, and we actually provided you some interesting feedback from anthropological and sociobiological standpoints, if you’d care to read and respond to that. (Here, I phrased it rudely. On your own site, I was more restrained.) By the way, what you call a “Peanut Gallery” is what professional writers call an “Audience.” And your “Audience” read the article and formed the impression that your entire essay was about legitimizing rape via the pseudo-scientific provision of various dubious biological imperatives. That’s what we’re telling you.
Signed, The “Bufoon” Lucy
Max-
You’re a fucktard. You alluded approvingly to the following passage:
“He must have faith that she knows what she wants and is willing to take the risk. He must believe in his ability not to misjudge the situation, and in the woman’s ability to deal with it well if he does. He must be willing to be profoundly and intensely intimate with the other person.”
What is this saying? It’s saying that a man doesn’t need a woman’s consent, he just needs to believe in his ability to “judge” the situation correctly. This is an *incredibly* dangerous piece of advice to give someone. It’s basically using the old “she was wearing a short dress, she was asking for it” argument. NOWHERE in your article do you say that if a woman says “No,” you should back off. In fact, you wrote that rape was part of the “natural order.” Read your own goddamn words:
Basically, the boys were designed to ‘hit’ as many females in the shortest period of time, whether the women want to mate or not. Through out human history this has been the ‘natural order.’
You’re basically saying that the “natural order” of the world is for men to have sex with women, whether or not the women approve. At the end of the piece, you nod approvingly to said “order”:
Sarah and her friends are welcome to their desires and maybe someday this will be alluring, but under the current realities of gender relations, the ‘natural order’ will have to wait.
How is this not an endorsement of rape? You said originally that the “natural order” was for men to have sex with women whether they wanted to or not. Then you claim that this “natural order” was undermined by modern gender relations. Please.
The livejournal feminist community is so bad that I bet more than a third would write in saying right on. feminist rage is the good feminist LJ community.
At no time did I say ‘rape was ok.’ I’m just noting that five former girlfriends liked/ had rape fantasies. On the two that wanted something ‘random’ I said ‘no.’
Because…
It sounded like a great way to get shot, beat up by some guy wanting to be a hero or (gasp) what if I got the wrong woman?
That’s kind of the problem, isn’t it? You’d be a rapist. Sorry society thinks so.
That’s great that you thought of that in an oblique way (‘what about my skin?’), but some people who read your poo and breathless soft-core porn like “taken in hand” don’t, or won’t. Your ridiculous phony feminist take–“Women have fantasies too!”–might better be rendered as “Women have my fantasies too! Thank goodness, or my ‘natural’ reaction to their big hooters might be considered rapery.”
Someone’s been jerking off to “Quest for Fire” again.
I’m speechless.
Shannon, you make a good point. I haven’t been active in the Feminist community for ages for that reason, but I couldn’t come up with a good “rage” to be allowed to post in Feminist Rage. It’s just too much to even rage about. I’ll try to come up with something, though.
Brad, you did a great service by reminding us of the awful attitudes some people hold toward women. The “peanut gallery” needs reminding. A lot. It’s too easy to be complacent.
Max, I heard your argument before, spoken by rapists. I’m happy you decided not to follow your own advice and just decide that those women “asked for it.” Trying to justify the argument with pseudoscientific babble is dangerous, and you are doing society a great disservice.
Yo, Max! Sometimes men have fantasies about being tied up or spanked – does this mean that all men want to be dominated and beaten? If your girlfriends revealed their fantasies regarding vulnerability and asked you to share them, I’m going to assume that you were decent enough to gain their trust. Or maybe you’re just attracted to the sort of woman who has rape fantasies. Either way, waving their fantasies about in an attempt to make them everywoman is ludicrous. The insinuation that the ‘natural order’ is for men to ‘hit’ as many women as possible (yes, I get that by hit you mean fuck) regardless of whether or not those women are willing is absurd. Not even dogs and cats do this. Oh, and your uncle was a pig for even thinking what he did, much less passing it on as “advice.” If anyone had ever tried that with my mom, she would have slapped them into the next county. Good Christian women don’t put up with such nonsense.
And if we’re using the caveman hunt-fight-fuck (note to Lucy – you are right about gathering) to define the ‘natural order’ then we have to allow that when a tribe or family can’t support everyone, it’s okay to leave the infants exposed to the wild and move on or maybe to induce abortion by jumping up and down on a board on the woman’s stomach. We could also ditch or kill the old people because they slow us down and eat more than they can contribute. After all, that’s what the cave people did….it’s natural!
This is so interesting. Max has emerged from some cave somewhere and has decided, based on the observations he has made with the limited tools he has, to propose several hypotheses about the biological imperatives of the human species. I love scientific inquiry, and I encourage Max to now take the additional steps of verifying these hypotheses through field study involving the observations of sample populations. Of course, he could save himself a lot of time by actually reading up on the topic of mating, reproduction and the evolutionary biology of mammals, but I suspect someone with his head 3 feet up his arse wouldn’t be inclined to do so. But at least it would eat up the time he’s spending writing his sollipsistic and offensive drivel for MND, which, in the end, would be worthwhile to us all.
Love the sop he throws to the creationists….
And nice how he will consider our biological cousins as models when it comes to sex, but many primate males practice a rather hideous form of infanticide. Let me guess that Max Power or whatever his name is has a really amazing and totally convincing reason why his “it’s natural” argument applies in one area of behavior but not others.
What a doofus.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that some people feel this way about women, but I am. Funny how eager people become to dismiss “society” as soon as it interferes with getting their rocks off.
So, was this him acting out on his biological drive to have women beat him to death or what?
Sexist pig
Arrgh, it's 10AM and I've just got the server restarted, and I find the a revolting article on Men's News Daily by Max Ross (no surprise, I know, that's like exclaiming at finding something rancid in a sewer…but hey, it'…
I have derived an irrefutable conclusion that Max’s secret fantasy is to have women mock his penis size in public. (Unfortunately this space is too small for me to include the complete proof, which relies extensively on both evolutionary theory and Biblical quotes).
Now of course Max won’t admit it, but you must have faith that you know what he really wants, and use your feminine intuition to tell when the moment is right for him.
Make his dreams come true, ladies!
So MRA’s have Andrea Dworkin to tar the feminists and now the feminists have Max Ross.
Sweeeeeeeeeet, equality!
Here’s my question: Does anyone here believe Max really ever had any girlfriends?
He reminds me of this guy who used to pester me in high school. “Yeah, and I know this other girl who loves to give blow jobs. Yeah, she just can’t get enough of it! And this OTHER girl I know…”
I don’t think Max has ever actually spoken to a girl. Not one not made of blow-up plastic, I mean.
Brad, you need to look up the meaning of the word primate.
I hope someone rape’s that asshole’s mother and daughter. And him.
I hope someone rape’s that asshole’s mother and daughter
That’s not cool either.
*Chortlrchortlechortle*
This is the best joke I’ve seen in years! It is a joke, isn’t it…?
*wibbles a bit*
“And because Max never evolved above the level of primate, he knows what he’s talking about.”
I don’t think anyone on this board has evolved above the level of primate. Homo sapiens are primates.
Nothing funnier than a bunch of PC’s climbing over themselves to be first to toss an obscenity or five at the evil male stereotype. For a bunch of self-enlightened metro’s, folks, get a clue, will ya?
Max obviously fantasises about raping women and, realising that that is unacceptable, is frantically rushing around trying to find some pseudo-scientific justiciation for his criminal thoughts.
Max obviously fantasises about raping women and, realising that that is unacceptable, is frantically rushing around trying to find some pseudo-scientific justiciation for his criminal desires.
Max obviously fantasises about raping women and, realising that that is unacceptable, is frantically rushing around trying to find some pseudo-scientific justiciation for his criminal desires.
If Matt is allowed to talk about women’s rape fantasies, we ought to be able to discuss his.
I don’t think anyone on this board has evolved above the level of primate. Homo sapiens are primates.
Yeah, I meant to say “lower level primate” or something like that. I’m a moron. (But unlike Max, at least I can admit it.)
I don’t think we’re the ones in need of clues, 6Gun.
Well, I’m a HOMO sapien. Which brings me to a question about this moronic “men wanna rape women/women wanna be raped” (or whatever the fuck this guy’s trying to say) theory: just how do gay men and lesbians figure into it? It’s safe to say lesbians don’t have fantasies about being raped by a man, and while I can’t speak for other HOMO sapiens, I’ve never had the slightest inclination to “hit” women, by force or otherwise.
Nothing funnier than a bunch of PC’s climbing over themselves to be first to toss an obscenity or five at the evil male stereotype. For a bunch of self-enlightened metro’s, folks, get a clue, will ya?
When Max stops embodying the evil male stereotype, we’ll stop tossing obscenities at him.
I was going to suggest that maybe the original was meant as satire but, if that was really Max trying to defend it above, that seems unlikely. Now I’m leaning toward the “insecure pig” theory again.
Maybe Y chromosomes make you stupid…?
I wrote briefly on that nonsense from Max Ross in Men's News Daily (as did Sadly, No). Now the publisher of MND has leapt to Ross's defense in a numbingly dull-witted article. Ross mangled the concept of sexual selection in his tale of se…
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