NEW PORT RICHEY, Fla. (Reuters) – President Bush told senior citizens in Florida on Tuesday he was doing all he could to ensure they get flu shots and accused Democratic rival Sen. John Kerry of using fear politics on issues like the vaccine shortage and a draft.

Compare and contrast.

Hello..???.. Anyone home?? They flew four jetliner bombs into our country.. Why wouldnt they nuke us if they get thier hands on the bomb??? How is that a lie?
They hate us, they would love to do something of that nature to us.
If theres any scaring going on for political gain, Bob above hit the nail right on the head.

Um, I think it may fall under “fearmongering” to suggest–with a complete lack of evidence or even a hint of a clue that nukes are involved–that anyone else may “drop the bomb” on us. And that, by implication, may be considered a “lie” because Dick should be in a position to know if this is a real threat and people may assume it is, just because he said it, even though there is no evidence to suggest it as a real possibility and not just a “pipe dream”.

Either Steve has gotten the subtle pacing of a troll down exactly in a brilliant parody, or he is unclear on the concept of hypocrisy. Being a stalwart believer in human nature, I choose the former. Bravo!

BTW, “get your mind around”? I had no idea Cheney was a damned dirty hippie!

That’s a tall order for a group of folks that already used up their daily brain wattage wrapping their heads around the 10:30am episode of the Dukes of Hazzard.

My evidence lays in my fellow Americans that instead of participating in this forum are now 6 feet under the ground.
There was no “evidence” that I was going to wake up and see two collapsing buildings on my TV screen, but did it happen? You people are extremly dense to think that this is not a possibility after the events that have unfolded.
This isnt about “evidence”, it isnt a trial, logic should tell you that it is possible but apparently many are lacking of this vital trait and instead living in a happy flower filled dream world.

As Dick gets us quaking in our existential boots, his minions are seeking to revise reality even further – buoyed by memogate, a group called Yes,BushCan! is asking folks to review documents regarding Bush’s DUI, Cheney’s DUI, Osama PDBs and prove that they’re forgeries.

No, really. Check it out here.

troll doesn’t take into account the numerous terra alerts this admin has made, all nicely timed to political ends, for distraction from unemployment numbers, 9/11 commission, so forth. So when Cheney cries “wolf”, why should we believe him?

Certainly, a terrorist act may occur on US soil, either perpetrated by a foriegner or by a local right-wing emulator of McVeigh. But noises made by this admin have no relation to actual threats.

To strengthen your point by calling me “Troll” shows how weak you really are. You think name calling makes your points more valid?
We have groups of terrorists out there that want to kill me and you right now. The more of us they can kill the better. As for you Nancy, I think the terror alert should be red at all times.
Anytime you have groups of people roaming the earth that have one thing on thier mind, Killing Americans it leaves us with the possibility of terrorist acts. Its a very real threat wether there is a political race going on or not. The terrorists exist to kill us, that is thier whole reason for living, the more of us dead the better. Just takes the right ones with the right ties to get there hands on something that can do some serious damage. This is an “actual” threat I am sorry to tell you.
Unemployment numbers? I could get into a big discussion about this topic with you but I find that there are more serious issues in these times we are living in, like keeping American civilians alive to get and create the jobs.

So logically, since there are roving bands of people wanting to kill us, it only makes sense for Smirky and Snarly to invade a sovereign country that had no connection to 9/11 to recruit more people that want to kill us. Right. Then, Snarly making a political statement ramping up the fear quotient a couple of weeks shy of the presidential election makes perfect sense. OK, got it.

Smirky and Snarly.. Hmm more name calling for point validation…very nice…

If you think Saddam loved Americans and cant grasp the fact that he would most certainly join up with an Anti-American terrorist group to help thier cause.
Then you are just missing missing the big picture, no surprise…

Who said anything about point validation? I’m just copping a riff from Tom Tomorrow at This Modern World. Trolls have no sense of humor. Lighten up, Junior.

There was no “evidence” that I was going to wake up and see two collapsing buildings on my TV screen, but did it happen?

Actually, there was “evidence,” though a stronger word might be “warning.” It was titled, “Bin Laden Determined To Strike Within U.S.”

Ohhh your talking about the one Clinton ignored the first time it was bombed… Thats right thanks.. 🙂

Course… He was too busy to take action to prevent the second, he was busy getting a blow job in the oval office.

Really? The only thing “they” have on their minds is killing Americans? The more of “us” they can kill the better?

Well we’re doing better them they are Stevie ’cause we’ve killed many thousands more of them then they’ve killed of us, you homocidal maniac.

I’m sure there is some Bin Laden follower out there drooling over killing Americans with a fervor equal to that with which you want to kill him.

Can you two nutjobs just exchange numbers and leave the rest of us out of it?

Thanks!

Ohhh your talking about the one Clinton ignored the first time it was bombed… Thats right thanks.. 🙂

Clinton was still president on August 6, 2001? That’s funny — I thought he left office after Bush’s inauguration on January 20, 2001. So Clinton was still president eight months after Bush was officially sworn in as president?

Why isn’t this more of a scandal?!?! Clinton was still President in August of 2001 and nobody told the country?!?!?!?!

Steve, why are you wasting time on this little podunk website — you’ve got the scoop of the year! Clinton never gave up office, just like Republicans said! Hurry! Call the AP! Call Reuters! Call Fox!

Ohmigod … I think Clinton is still secretly president to this day!

Thanks, Steve! Due to your courage, the truth has finally come out. Bush hasn’t been president the past four years — Clinton has. No wonder Bush has been running like a challenger, not an incumbent.

My most esteemed colleague Steve C;
Let me address some of what you seem to consider to be “points”.
– Clinton didn’t ignore the first WTC bombing. All those who carried it out were apprehended. He directed the military to carry out strikes against those associated with them. He ramped up counter-terrorism efforts so we were able to foil the millenium plot. That’s how you fight terrorism. Attacking random countries and running around screaming, “Oh my goodness! Everybody wants to kill us!” doesn’t accomplish a thing.
– Nobody doubts that some (but not all) terrorist groups would use a nuke if they had one. We just think working with the countries that have nuclear material to improve safeguarding, limiting nuclear technology, eliminating unneeded stockpiles in places like Russia, and punishing rogue countries that are developing nukes like North Korea, Iran, and, previously, Libya are more effective than invading countries that aren’t producing nukes and then allowing all the equipment and materials that they could have been using to do so to be stolen.
– Why on earth do you think that Bush would do a better job of protecting Americans from such an attack anyway? Under his leadership we’ve lost more Americans to what the administration calls terrorists than during any previous administrations, even if you leave out the deaths during 9/11. Under Clinton, we stopped terrorist attacks. Under Bush we have failed to stop a single attack inside the US. Our chief terrorist enemy, al Qaeda, is larger today than it was four years ago. Other terrorist groups that never considered attacking the US before because they didn’t want the heat that would bring now have no motivation to avoid that since they’re under assault anyway. People who never considered supporting terrorism before now see it as their only defense against American imperialism. We’re not safer, we’re just more scared.
Do you have an actual point or are you just here to yell “Hello…??? Anyone home??” and say that your opponents are “living in a happy flower filled dream world” and then attack them for failing to maintain a civil discourse?

And I suppose Big Dick would just piss that fireball to a very cinder!

You know, you guys are missing the key point here: Dick Cheney’s daughter is a LESBIAN! You guys quibble over nukes and WMDs and bin Laden, when one day I might enter a ladies room when Dick Cheney’s LESBIAN DAUGHTER is in there! Lately I can’t sleep at nights worrying about this. Getting nuked or WMDed is God’s will, but by God Dick Cheney’s LESBIAN DAUGHER in the same ladies room as me is not.

Quote: Well we’re doing better them they are Stevie ’cause we’ve killed many thousands more of them then they’ve killed of us, you homocidal maniac

Thats right, when you throw the first punch, expect there to be consequences. It was thier choice to play with the big dog. What is America sapossed to do, ask kindly to please stop killing us? And just forget that they murdered thousands? They declared war on us and a war they got. I hope we kill every last one of them so someone in my family someday dosent have to lose thier life to one of those Psychos.

Call me a homicidal manic if you will, I call it defense.

And to the person calling herself a lady above, your just plainly a bigot, and I doubt any lesbian or man has any interest in such a shallow soul.

Above submitted by me…

Is it even news that terrorists want to bomb US cities???

That’s like saying water is wet…

Islamic terrorists have openly stated they want to kill millions of Americans with WMD:

“We have not reached parity with them. We have the right to kill 4 million Americans — 2 million of them children — and to exile twice as many and wound and cripple hundreds of thousands. Furthermore, it is our right to fight them with chemical and biological weapons, so as to afflict them with the fatal maladies that have afflicted the Muslims because of the [Americans’] chemical and biological weapons.”

        Islamic terrorist group “Al Qaeda”
        June 12, 2002
        http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP38802

Steve is right! Mr. Cheney was telling the truth when he said that terrorists are going to use atomic bombs on our cities unless George Bush is reelected! The Vice President is privy to lots of intelligence that YOU don’t know about, such as that link between Saddam and 9/11. Wrap your mind about that.

Oh, and the war against terror is going great — we’ve killed 75% of al Qaeda. We just have to get the 25% that has the atomic weapons and we’ll have peace.

And I think it’s terrible that you people say that Mary Cheney is a lesbian, when it’s just something that John Kerry made up to try to defame the Vice President. No decent people have homosexuals in their family, and everybody knows it!

Your going to have to show me a quote on where Cheney said they will use atomic weapons UNLESS they are re-elected… He simply stated a fact knowing that most of America has more faith in Bush protecting us then Kerry. I too believe electing kerry would weaked the defense. So twist it around like you democrats always do…

Another news flash for you… 75% of Al Qauda captured leaving 25% to attack us? Sadly no, heres a lesson for you… There are many Islamic terrorist groups.

And last I dont think its terrible for people to say that Cheneys daughter is a lesbian at all, when did I say that. I said that its wrong for a desperate opposing presidential canidate to nationally announce it for the homophobe vote, its a cheap dirty blow, they are extremly desperate and they should be, Bush will win.

No decent people have homosexuals in thier family? Wow, I wont even dignify that stupidity and bigotry with an response.

He simply stated a fact knowing that most of America has more faith in Bush protecting us then Kerry.

You mean, another fact like that Iraq was complicit in 9/11?

Another news flash for you… 75% of Al Qauda captured leaving 25% to attack us? Sadly no, heres a lesson for you… There are many Islamic terrorist groups.

News flash: Why don’t you tell George Bush this, since he is the one who keeps mentioning that inaccurate and misleading 75% figure re Al Qaeda in his speeches and debates?

And last I dont think its terrible for people to say that Cheneys daughter is a lesbian at all, when did I say that. I said that its wrong for a desperate opposing presidential canidate to nationally announce it for the homophobe vote

So, Bush/Cheney should be allowed to court the homophobe vote in peace?

Anyway, I don’t believe Kerry mentioned Mary to sour the homophobes on Cheney, I think he mentioned her to show the moderates how Cheney is willing to regulate even family members to second-class citizenship if it helps him to hang on to political power, and how Bush “doesn’t know” if homosexuality is a choice or not, even though his VP’s daugher is handy for him to ask. It’s a character issue.

Steve is absolutely right – until every terrorist in the world (no, fuck that, the GALAXY) is brought to justice, we should always be on red alert.

Of course, if we actually get strong evidence that a group of known terrorists have acquired nukes and may have smuggled them into the USA, we might need to upgrade to “extra red” or something. Oh, and if we intercept communication from these guys that proves they _are_ in the US and definitely have nukes, we could upgrade to super-mega-red.

Actually, I have an idea. Why don’t me make red yellow, extra red orange, and super-mega-red just plain red? It might save some confusion.

Hello!! George fucking chicken shit Bush was president on 9/11!

Fearmongering…

“Fearmonger!”, cry Bush critics when Dick Cheney says…

Dick is right.

The whole war on terror goes like this: We shovel a bunch of bombs at Jews in the Levant to throw at the Arabs in the Levant. The Arabs and the Muslims get mad and bomb our embassies. Then that didn’t get our attention so they blew up the Cole. Then they figured surely we would get the point and start minding our own business if they took out the Pentagon and the WTC.

Noooooo…cause we can’t talk about Israel because on the mainstream left you have a pack of cowards or kneejerk semitiphiles who are terrified to say something about the obvious problem for fear the Nazis may come marching down Main Street if someone mentions that not everyone in the world is convinced of the absolute moral perfection of zionism and the right is a pack of immature little turds who can’t stand to believe that American foreign policy could have ever been about anything but spreading love and light and freedom around the globe so the Palestinians living in garbage dumps and anyone who thinks they have a rather legitimate complaint and that they should probably be given their homes, farms, business, bank accounts, stocks, etc.. back from when they were taken in ’48 must just be crazy and hate America because they are bad.

Next up on the que is a nuke. It’s going to happen like the sun is going to rise. Everytime they hit us they make sure it’s bigger and it would just about take a nuke to top 9/11. There are too many of them floating around there for it not to happen.

Bush’s plan for dealing with this is to attack random Arab countries. I have no idea how this is supposed to prevent a group of individuals from bringing a nuke here and detonating it but it seems to impress a depressing percentage of this country.

Kerry’s plan is to keep hunting terrorists through standard counter-terrorist techniques which will possibly forestall the day this happens but they can’t catch everyone.

Someone is going to get through, we are gonna get nuked and I don’t know what happens at that point. It doesn’t have to be this way but unless the U.S. either removes itself from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or manages to actually act as a fair handed broker who has something in the negotiating sack other than carrots for Israel (I think it’s way too late for that) it’s going to happen.

Take U.S. support for Israel out of the picture and now it’s not us who gets the nuke it’s Russia over the Chechyn conflict. I know I’m just loopy crazy and we need to keep headed down this road and support Israel until our cities are being leveled one by one (and who exactly could we nuke back?) and someone at that point I’m sure is going to say “OK, this is crazy”.

“And I think it’s terrible that you people say that Mary Cheney is a lesbian, when it’s just something that John Kerry made up to try to defame the Vice President. No decent people have homosexuals in their family, and everybody knows it!”

No decent people have homosexuals in thier family? Wow, I wont even dignify that stupidity and bigotry with an response.

There’s something called sarcasm, you know.

Argh, forgot to italicize the second quote.

Absynthe, I guess I don’t really need to ask what drugs you’re on, but, come on, the *left* is too pro-Israel? OK, the Democrats are pro-Israel, but so are the Republicans. And the Palestinians have been a concern of the activist and academic left for *decades* — decades which the right has spent cheering Israeli oppression.

If you think Saddam loved Americans and cant grasp the fact that he would most certainly join up with an Anti-American terrorist group to help thier cause.
Then you are just missing missing the big picture, no surprise…

Um, no, he wouldn’t. Ask the CIA. Because Saddam was a lot more concerned with continuing to plunder and oppress his own country than with fucking with the US and getting himself blown to kingdom come.

Terrorists. Dictators. Stateless. States. Learn the difference. Then tell your friend Gee Dubya.

Who?

There was Hillard and McKinney. Who else?

You see what happened to them and to be honest the only other person we have in elected office who wouldn’t sing a chorus of Hatikva on the steps of the Capitol if told to vote that way by the Israel PACS is probably Sununu.

Democrats and Israel go back even further than Republicans. Republicans used to be split while the democrats were lockstep zionists.

Ok, so let me get this straight…

Cheney says those pesky terra-ists are going to drop a nuke on us and only Curious George can protect us so vote for him or your children are going to die in the nuclear fallout… and that’s NOT fearmongering?

I hate to break it to your poor little delusioned self, but blatant manipulation of so-called facts is just a fancy way of saying LIE. If it was some nut off the street.. like say, Steve, who said something as absurd as that, then yes, it’d be nonsense. But when it comes straight from the horse’s mouth (or ass, depending on your POV), at best it’s manipulation, at worst an out and out lie.

As for Steve’s assertion that it’s not a lie because it could possibly happen – I could say that Hillary Clinton is a communist murderer whose set her sights on the White House but that doesn’t make it any truer. Someone should tell Cheney his pants are on fire.

Credibility and accountability are two things this administration has loved to tout in its inane rhetoric – and two things it strives to evade.

Everyone is in Iraq.

Some country could this second say “We are going to start handing nukes over to terrorists to attack America” and other than us nuking them first there wouldn’t be a damn thing Dick Cheney or anyone else could do to stop them.

Assuming if some country wanted to spend the treasure for some reason to build a terrorist a suitcase nuke (I’m not sure why anyone would do this, it’s a stupid idea and one only entertained by ossified cold war minds who can’t stop obsessing about states like battleship Admirals in a fleet war) the U.S. has no military to invade or threaten anyone on the planet.

It doesn’t matter one bit if old Dick talks tougher or not, they have shot their wad in Iraq and everyone else in the world knows it.

“I said that its wrong for a desperate opposing presidential canidate to nationally announce it for the homophobe vote….”

That’s hysterical. Those damn Democrats are just trying to appeal to your bigotry, eh?

But you see the problem though, don’t you? If you weren’t a bigot it wouldn’t work. It’s kind of clever, dont you think?

Actually he wasn’t pandering to Republican bigotry Stevie, although God knows that seems to be the only thing that gets you folks to lift your snouts out of the trough these days.

No, see, he was obliquely pointing out Cheney’s scary ability to profess love and admiration for his daughter while at the same time pandering to and associating with those who would on any given day rather see her dead tied to a fencepost somewhere.

It’s sort of like an irony kind of thing.

You stupid fucks make me sick. You are all geniuses with your damn heads in the sand.
Go smoke some more dope or what ever you do and leave the tough decisions to those that have the stomach for them.

Don’t risk my children’s lives on your naive ideas. This isn’t a debate class. Why don’t you superior fucks go put your lives on the line for something and see how the real world works.
But that would take you away from starbucks and your self-congratulatory socialism. You want to be like the Europeans and there non-ability to defend themselves.

You might be the smartest damn people in the world, but your kind of smarts will get people I love killed. SO I don’t want any of it.

Kerry is a traitorous son of a bitch always has been, always will be. That alone is enough reason to never vote him into office. Everything else about him is just gravy.

The liberals control the media, and you are afraid of the big bad Republicans? Wake the fuck up!

Greg,

If you are that goddamn dumb that you are basically admitting that you don’t really understand anything except that there are people in the world that want to kill you and you don’t know who but someone who will kill someone, anyone somewhere else in the world why don’t you just leave politics for us evil, cerebral types and go huff paint or chew up some oxycotins and watch Survivor and shut up.

So why do the trolls support the numbnuts that ignored the August 6th warnings that only they were allowed to see? “Bin Laden to strike within US” What does their alleged terra fighter do? He goes on vacation for a month in Crawford. He had been in Al Gore’s office for only six smonths when he did that! Stealing an election must be hard work.

Ah ha ha, still whining about the 2000 election and everything is a conspiracy. You people cant even lose an election that was recounted over and over without crying some kind of fraud. Must be depresing living in your conspiracy filled world sitting there watching your media, drinking your half empty glass of beer.

I thank god I dont live in your dark pessimistic world. Everything is always wrong, someone is always trying to pull the wool over your eyes. Must be horribly depressing.

Im a positive person and Im glad we have a positive leader that is most likely in for 4 more years.Im sure you will all be jumpin around screaming voter fraud, but that dosent really concern me, its what your all about. You better start organizing your Voter Fraud rally now.

What Ive learned since coming to this liberal filled forum. You people are the masters of twisting things, I dont know if you do it purposly, or if it just happens in your brains but I know with that kind of thinking nothing will ever be right and I say to you, enjoy your ride through the depressing hell in which you live.

“[T]hey are extremly desperate and they should be, Bush will win.”

Good point. I’ll grant you that there is a high correlation between having Bush in office and the general level of desperation.

Sorry Greg, but you ARE going to have to sacrifice your children.

I know it’s tough and a blow to you and your family but Saddam attacked us. At his direction loyal followers trained and plotted and flew airplanes into our buildings and killed thousands of our citizens. You need to send your children to Iraq to avenge Saddam’s cowardly 9/11 attack.

It’s sad that your little Johnny or Sally needs to die for the cause, but what choice do you have really? But before you send them off please forward on to W the ages of the children you wish to donate so he can order the correct size bodybags OK?

Fortunately my children will be staying home save and secure because unlike you I’m sane and know W is a liar. I guess it’s the burden we intelligent folks must bear (you know, logic and reason and all that), but I’m sure you tinybrains must have difficulties of you own so I won’t belabor the point. But good luck with that warmongering thing though; I hope it works out for you.

Well, it’s off to Starbucks for a chai latte for me.

Thanks for your contribution Greg!

How do you win the war on terror? You can’t – there’s no defined enemy. There’s no one to wave a white flag. It’s the reason we’ll never “win the war” on poverty, drugs, or anything else that is so broadly defined.

Thousands of people were killed on 9/11 and the leader of the responsible group has not been brought to justice. Nor was the person/group responsible for the anthrax mailings soon afterwards. And yet we’re off fighting a “war on terror.” Where’s the justice for the victim’s family? If your brother is murdered, but the police tell you that they’re not so concerned with the actual murderer…but all those who may murder…will you sit and accept this? No, I think not.

QUOTE: I guess it’s the burden we intelligent folks must bear (you know, logic and reason and all that), but I’m sure you tinybrains must have difficulties of you own so I won’t belabor the point.

Hmm… A Legend in your own mind.

“It?s absolutely essential that eight weeks from today, on November 2, we make the right choice, because if we make the wrong choice, then the danger is that we?ll get hit again and we?ll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States”

That and the Cheney comment above are tied into the same narrative that he’s been spinning. He’s saying that if Kerry is elected “People will die.”

Im a positive person and Im glad we have a positive leader

What kind of “positive person” is consumed with the threat to KILL US ALL posed by some undefined, sinister “They”?

People are going to die no matter what. But I do believe what our Vice President is saying is that we can keep homeland deaths to a minimum with a president that is decisive and strong.

I would say that if homeland deaths could be kept to a minimum by debating (being a better bullshitter) Kerry would be my man. You all talk about Bushs lies, well Senator kerry’s record shows he voted against what he says he is for numerous times. A 20 year record that exists, and isnt made up by Dan Rather.

All Kerry knows is that he will say whatever sounds good to the public to get those votes wether or not it contradicts what he said a week before.

I will be making the right choice…

QUOTE: Im a positive person and Im glad we have a positive leader

What kind of “positive person” is consumed with the threat to KILL US ALL posed by some undefined, sinister “They”?

………………………………………

Positive… dosent mean to shut out reality, it means understanding the possibilities and having hope and faith that the problem is resolved correctly.

QUOTE: Sorry Greg, but you ARE going to have to sacrifice your children.

Land of the free, home of the brave.. Our “children” gave you the peice of land where you go to sleep every night through the sacrifice that you dishonor.

I am one year past recruiting age, I just wish I could stand with my brothers and fight a people that decided that even though we did nothing to them they decide kill thousands of our innocent civilans because they dont like our way of life or our religion.

I find that the least I can do for the great way way of life we are givin here and would see it as a great honor. And as far as Iraq goes, I believe they had ties with terrorists but besides that, I saw what Saddam did to his people and I would also fight to save a fellow human from being tormented like that.

Its the difference of being a compassionate hero or a selfish zero.

And before it is cleverly said about my statment above.. Why didnt you join after 9/11 happened or before? My girlfriend begged me not to and I let my heart get in the way of my better judgment.

But Steve, you useless cowardly spelling-challenged moron of a tool, there’s still a way for a true patriot such as yourself to go kick some Arab ass. Yes, you too could be a civilian “security specialist” or merc. That’s right, give Blackwater or one of the other merc contractors a call and tell them you’re ready to go clear Fallujah of evil-doers. Don’t forget to write dipshit.

Im a coward hehe..I see… Why you sit back and talk your smack on your property provided by people like me. Spelling dosent win freedom so if I made a typo or mis-spelled something, Im certain it isnt going to effect our freedom a whole lot.
And swear up a storm and call me some names, mabey it will make your point stronger lol.

Oh no…. I made a typo above.. Why should While.. Could someone like me make a wise vote this election? well, I voted for Kerry before I voted against him

I would also fight to save a fellow human from being tormented like that

What a humanitarian. The “End Torture by Torturing Innocents” and “End Mass Killing by Mass-Killing Innocents” plans are working out spendidly so far.

There is no Mass-Killing of innocents. America isnt going in there to kill civilians, thats just hippy minded and dumb.
The rate of civilian casualties is pretty low considering the amount of insurgents and soldiers that have been killed, and in any war there are innocents killed.

When we freed Afghanistan there were innocents killed as well and look at them now, having elections well on thier way to freedom, courtesy of the USA.

Return to your living room and pop in your Woodstock DVD and go back to dreamy dreamy land.

Stevie, you are so far from reality, it’s not even a glow on the horizon.

Steve C wrote, “Positive… doesn’t mean to shut out reality, it means understanding the possibilities and having hope and faith that the problem is resolved correctly.”
No, Steve. After the understanding part comes figuring out the correct solution and implementing it. “Hope and faith that the problem is resolved” are what you do when you don’t have a friggen’ clue what you should be doing.

saw a terrific programme on BBC charting the rise of neo-conservatives in the USA (including the how and why). steve c, you’re a fuckwit tool…are you and your ilk too stupid to understand our country was attacked under ‘r’ preznit’s watch? he’s already failed us. what part of that don’t you understand?

Fantastic point big nickle, and you really made a strong point of your reason for saying so. Bravo.

On your remark rimone, I was speaking of the first time the Trade center was bombed. Bill Clinton was president then my friend. Read a little harder and you might figure it out…Jolly good show

Mojo, there is a big difference between an opinion and a solution. And many issues there are just no “correct” solution because there are different interests involved in them.

And to those that apply on responding to me… Im not going to resort to your guys civilized tactics of name calling or swearing cause I feel strongly about what I say that I dont need to do that to stregnthen my points.
Also none of you ladies or gentlemen are worth getting that fired up over is the way I see it.

rimone- I’m Ilk too stupid r preznit? I dont think I need say anymore..

You’re right, Steve, it’d be a shame if you resorted to calling people names.

Just to recap, your second comment on this thread:

“You people are extremly dense to think that this is not a possibility after the events that have unfolded.
This isnt about “evidence”, it isnt a trial, logic should tell you that it is possible but apparently many are lacking of this vital trait and instead living in a happy flower filled dream world.”

Don’t sprain your shoulder patting yourself on the back so hard.

Please tell me that these blogs just attract the right-wing whackos and that the majority of conservatives aren’t this bad. I really can’t stand to think that this is what passes for critical thought among the Republicans these days. November 2nd can’t come soon enough. Hopefully, a Kerry win will help shut these folks up for a while so the adults can get this country back on track.

Extremly dense hardly ranks up there with dipshit and fuckwit… Couldnt you do better then that? 🙂 You had this whole forum of about 25 of my posts and thats the meanest thing you could find? Interesting huh

It is called class.

Prepare yourself for disappointment ohnonotagain, thankfully as the polls are begining to show most of the country has thier eyes open and actually analyzes things. Kerrys odds when I looked earlier today 20-1

First of all, to go back to Steve C’s original comment, he’s right: Cheney isn’t “lying” when he “questions whether Sen. John Kerry could combat [a nuclear] threat”. A lie, by definition, requires a refutable statement. Cheney is merely posing a question as to whether Kerry could combat such a threat.

That said, the other two charges levelled against Cheney, (that he is “pathetic” and “scaremongering”) are much closer to the mark for two reasons:

1. It is (or should be) the de facto position of any democracy to be unified in its opposition to the tyranny inflicted by terrorists. It is, therefore, reprehensible that any political candidate should suggest an opponent might not be as resolute or steadfast in a battle against terrorists.

2. Cheney’s remarks reminded me of a quote that I’m sure most here will have heard before:
“It is a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
— Hermann Goering

In line with both these points, I’m trying to recall the policy of the UK government during “the troubles” in Northern Ireland and during the IRA’s bombings in mainland Britain. At no time (that I recall) did any government minister suggest that the opposition would be weaker in dealing with terrorists and at no time did the government try to strike fear into the electorate that they would be more at risk from attacks were the opposition to be elected. The result was a nation unified in its opposition to the terrorists, outwardly resolute and inwardly confident that the battle could and would be won regardless of which party was in power.

If I may be so bold as to throw this Administration’s own language back at it, to suggest that one leader may be more or less resolute in this war than another is to “send mixed messages” to our allies and “emboldens our enemies”.

It is scaremongering and anyone who suggests otherwise is being disingenuous. No-one needs to be told that we’re not living in “a happy flower filled dream world” any more with perhaps the sole exception of this President who seems convinced that everything is decidedly rosy (and if it isn’t rosy, it isn’t his fault).

That said, one does need to draw a distinction between the rhetoric that politicians use to articulate how resolute they or their opposition are in the “War on Terror” with the arguments they use to justify or criticise the methods used to actually prosecute that war.

Now it may be (though I doubt it) that Cheney isn’t suggesting that Kerry won’t be as resolute in the war but rather that he won’t take the right practical steps in combatting terrorism. Even in this case, however, it’s still scaremongering because Cheney offers no factual evidence to back such an allegation while, at the same time, his Administration has no record to speak of in this area.

These are the facts of the case and they are undisputed: a terrorist attack occurred on American soil under this Administration’s watch, the perpetrators have not been caught, the resources deployed to bring those perpetrators to justice have been reduced, the level of international terrorism has risen since our “War on Terror” was declared and, if such failures weren’t damning enough, we’ve managed to lose more than 1000 troops and spent USD 200 billion doing so.

These are the facts of the case and they are undisputed.

And yet there seem to be some shamans out there (including, presumably, this Administration and Steve C) who still think “the other guy” is going to do a worse job.

Who’s living in “dreamy dreamy land” now?

[The reader’s attention is drawn to the lack of namecalling in this post: wouldn’t want to offend any over-sensitive wingnuts]

“Kerrys odds when I looked earlier today 20-1”

Oh dear, Steve. Dare I say it, you might be in “dreamy dreamy land” again.

Please tell me where you got those odds: I want a piece of that action!

Ladbrokes shows 11/8 so I can comfortably arbitrage the shit out of that for a tidy profit.

OK Andrew,

QUOTE :Now it may be (though I doubt it) that Cheney isn’t suggesting that Kerry won’t be as resolute in the war but rather that he won’t take the right practical steps in combatting terrorism.

Yes!!! I think its an absolute joke to put Kerry in charge of our military. Take some time tomnight or in the next few days, different areas pending and watch STOLEN HONOR. Kerry couldnt even handle being a soldier let alone commander in cheif.

STOLEN HONOR has people that were with him in the flesh talking, he totally screwed over his fellow soldiers and Im certain he would do the same thing with the military.

ANDREWS QUOTE:
[The reader’s attention is drawn to the lack of namecalling in this post: wouldn’t want to offend any over-sensitive wingnuts]

STEVES QUOTE:
Also none of you ladies or gentlemen are worth getting that fired up over is the way I see it.

Over sensitive over what? Has nothing to do with sensitivity, has to do with acting dignified.

Believe me, the words I would like to call some of you, but Im adult enough to roll with it.

Andrew it was an article in The Washington Post where I got the odds based on a computer using trends and statistics dating back to 1912..

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041019-103119-7584r.htm

I realize its not going to decide the election but it gives some bearing and while your at it you can check the gallup polls among registered voters.

http://www.gallup.com/election2004/showdown/

Andrew it was an article in The Washington Post where I got the odds based on a computer using trends and statistics dating back to 1912..

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041019-103119-7584r.htm

I realize its not going to decide the election but it gives some bearing and while your at it you can check the gallup polls among registered voters.

http://www.gallup.com/election2004/showdown/

To cop a phrase from the immortal Ray Stevens:

“Now, Steve – he were igorint. You heard o’ people don’t know nothing’? Man, Steve don’t even SUSPECT nothin’!”

Oh well. At least he’s smart enough to know Nancy meant him when she said “troll” – guess that counts for something.

Jeezus, all this foaming at the mouth! Don’t you people have jobs?

By now, I’ve forgotten what the damned post was about…

And it’s interesting (and sad) that not one single one of the lot of ya didn’t call bullshit on Absynthe – that Jew-hating twat (whoopsie, I’ve engaged in ad hominem name calling! Dear me!)

Stevie, my comment nicely summed up my position: you are so far from reality, that to try to enlighten you would be just wasted effort.

I’d have to start by explaining world history to you, carefully noting American involvement (not a pretty picture). That in itself would take far more time than I would ever care to devote to the task From the content of your posts, however, it’s painfully obvious that you know nothing of this topic.

If that wasn’t enough to brighten your bulb, I’d probably have to delve into such concepts with you as diplomacy, soveriegnty, and self-determination. Understanding what these mean, and how they apply to the current situation, hopefully would start to lighten your horizon.

What to do then, if you were still in the dark? I suppose we’d have to examine human nature, especially the nature of humans living in a condition of powerlessness. What does that do to people, and how do they usually react?

Ah, well, but alas this post is all the effort I’m willing to devote to your education, Steve. I will leave you with one tidbit of knowledge, though: 9/11 was NOT Pearl Harbor; 9/11 was the Doolittle Raid.

Andrew it was an article in The Washington Post … http://washingtontimes.com

Steve, there’s a gargantuan difference between the Washington Post and the Washington Times. The latter is *literally* owned by a religious cult. They’re like one step above NewsMax.

Yes Mr. Flip I made a typo.. Should have been realized pretty easily in the web address I would imagine though.

Nickle I get dumber everytime I read your posts. Your education comes from a party whom says Bush is a liar and a candidate who tells the president to be stright with the American people…
Yet.. Stolen Honor which exposes the truth to the American people cannot be shown in its entirty to us because the people of your party have threatened that thier lawyers will sue sinclair broadcasting.
Theres a typical liberal scheme destroying the freedom of press and covering Americas eyes. When the twisted and half truth filled fahrenheit 911 of the America hating Micheal Moore came out there was no threatening of suing by the Republican party cause its freedom of press. Now who is keeping the truth from who here?.

Steve, the public owns the airwaves. The public does not own the movie theaters. That’s why Michael Powell can fine CBS for Janet Jackson’s Nipplepalooza but he can’t fine movie studios what show nekkid ladies.

“And to the person calling herself a lady above, your just plainly a bigot, and I doubt any lesbian or man has any interest in such a shallow soul.”

I’m crushed but not surprised: You didn’t get it. As they say, if you have to explain a joke, it’s not a very good one.

It’s a joke, you know, about homosexuality being a choice or God’s will, and the inverse correlation of serious to silly topics given media coverage, and…never mind.

Haha.. What a sense of humor…look out late night TV

But it is a relief to know that is was just a joke miss 🙂

Just want to state something to everyone in this forum for the record. The reason I dont swear like some of you or directly call you names that are harsh is that despite my disagreement with you , I dont hate any of you, you are all Americans and have the right to think like you want.
Its fun to throw down a little before an election like this and I have fun laughing at what you say just like laugh at what I say. I doubt anyone is ever going to change the others mind in any case because people in general are pretty stubborn when it comes to thier beliefs.
Thats not my goal, my goal was to find a liberal forum and stir up some heat, have some fun and kill some time. Over 80 posts now on this one thread and its been fun 🙂

Wow, 85 comments! Hmm, I suspect Kerry wouldn’t react to a President’s Daily Brief that said “Bin Laden determined to strike in U.S.” by taking a 32-day vacation. And if the nation were under attack, Kerry probably would not spend the next seven minutes reading, “The Pet Goat” and then fly off in Air Force One and hide without even bothering to order the remaining two hijacked planes shot down. If Kerry had Bush’s reaction time, he would have died a long time ago in Vietnam.

Either you have watched too much Fahreheit 911 or you are Micheal Moore, one or the other, now try watching FahrenHYPE 911 in stores now and see all about the presidents “Vacation”

Ah yes Fredrick, or should I call you Moores goat? Heres a little page for you to visit and anyone else who believes that garbage of all garbage – http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1164856/posts it is called Fifty-six Deceits in Fahrenheit 911 By Dave Kopelor just type in Micheal Moore lies into your favorite search engine youll find plenty regurding this subject.

You get your information from real reliable sources dont ya.

If your trying to get me to believe the President wanted the 2nd plane to hit the tower, you have about as much chance of that as me shaking hands with America Hater Extrodinare- Michael Bin Laden, ohh I mean Michael Moore. 🙂

Id like to add one more comment about fahrenHYPE 911, has people that were in your Fahrenheit 911 talking about how they were snookered into saying things….

Nice, refuting Michael Moore with Free Republic.

Oh man, where to start…maybe some other time. Arrived too late on the scene as it were.

Looks like Sadly, NO! has acquired a troll.

hey, steve, call bullshit.

Tell me where I’ve missed something in my analysis of the war on some terrorists.

I’m way past giving a fuck about the outrageous “Jew hating” that occurs when you start talking about the reality of the whole thing.

Everything I said was absolutely true and if you agree that it’s worth any price to stand by the perfect, absolutely pure, holy state of Israel right down to the end even if it means eating a nuke every year or so (all the money will flee at this point to and anyone who can’t afford to leave will be warming their hands around garbage cans) then good on ya, but it’s not bullshit.

Hey Steve C, I just want to point out the fact that you are an ignorant asshole. Have a nice day, though.

I think his arguments are largely faith/ideology based, so there is not a lot of point in entering into discussion with him.

QUOTE: Hey Steve C, I just want to point out the fact that you are an ignorant asshole. Have a nice day, though.

Very nice, a classic example of what I have seen here. And Joseph I’d like to add that I seriously take that as a huge compliment coming from the likes of a person such as yourself for if you thought highly of me, that would mean I was more like you 🙂

WKD my arguments are a result of the information I have gathered and weighed out. T
This forum for instance, I see the way most of you act, throw names and swear words around like teenagers, cant be civil at all, and I feel better about who I am everytime I come back here 🙂

I saw something earlier today that just reminded me so much about how you people act. I wouldnt have believed this if I didnt come here to this blog…

http://www.herald-dispatch.com/2004/September/17/LNtop1.htm

Dont know how to set a link here but you can cut & paste I think..

Im sure this kind of behavior wont even shock most of you…

Sickening.. just like the way you people carry yourselfs, hardly the kind of people I want in the goverment representing me. I would have thought this had to be misuderstood, but no, Ive had the pleasure of seeing the kind of class that fills this blog.

Im ONE Republican listening to over 20 Liberals here and I keep my cool, All you have to deal with here is just me and you cant even handle that with your forces joined against me.
Im sorry but I find that extremly humorous and even more so weak on your behalfs. But were that ones that are rightwing “nutcases” HA 🙂

I love it when “refraining from using so-called bad language” suddenly equals “making reasonable and salient points in favor of my agenda”.

Steve, if you feel comfortable with Bush reading My Pet Goat for (at least) 7 minutes while the US faced the biggest attack on its mainland ever, then you’re obivously way beyond thinking critically about Bush. Sadly, that is the stance of a good 40% of the US right now.

First of all, What was he sapossed to do? Jump up rip his shirt open, bust out his cape and fly to the world trade center? He was remaining calm in front of a group of kids while he gathered his thoughts on what needed to be done.

America hadent been attacked like the since pearl harbor and its pretty unfair for you to expect him to just know in 5 seconds all the answers.
it was quite a shock to everyone that horrible morning. And wasent expected by anyone.

In my opinion he handled himself well, and with composure in a horrible situation. You act like he didnt even care and if you really believe that…then that is whats truly sad.

At least he was with americas children at the time as well, my guess is that if Bill Clinton was stilll president at the time he prolly would have had the oval office door locked while he was gettin blown.

Bush dosent do everything right, n one is perfect, but I think he handled the situation pretty damn good for a guy that just stepped into office.

And since when did you go door to door in the US asking everyone who they support, I sure the hell didnt see you, where you get your 60% of the country supports your beliefs and 40% mine?

Your information it about as solid as Kerrys sentae record.

And before you get critical on me for the word senate typo above, yeah I made a typo. I know you people work pretty hard to find things to critcize and find wrong with everything.

Looks like somebody is not only going for their G.O.P. tote bag, but the entire luggage set AND the toaster oven.

You also misspelled “supposed”, “comma”, “World Trade Center”, “hadn’t”, “Pearl Harbor”, “wasn’t”, “didn’t”, “what’s”, “America’s”, “probably”, “Oval Office”, “getting”, “doesn’t”, “no one”, “is” and “Kerry’s”. You also started a sentence with a conjunction, missed a few commas, and had a run-on sentence.

Well, you asked for it…

Steve? You didn’t join up because your girlfriend begged you not to? You wouldn’t fight for the freedom of the oppressed Iraqi people because your girlfriend begged you not to? That’s a pretty poor excuse, Steve. And you know it is only an excuse. I think you’re just afraid, which is fine. Nobody really wants to die. But again it comes down to the level of commitment you profess versus your real commitment. I don’t look down on youf or not joining while, at the same time, supporting the war, but why be a sissy about it? Why not be a man and say “I didn’t join up because I am afraid to fight in a war, but I still support those other guys who are dying over there and am glad they are ovr there in harm’s way, risking their lives. I wouldn’t do it myself, but I’m glad they do.” A little honesty, Steve C. Show some moral courage even if you lack physical courage.

Ha, you obviously didnt read what I wrote, I too agree it was poor judgment to let my heart get in the way. No, I am not afraid to die for this country one little bit my friend. I grew up in the army my dad served for 32 years, he faught in Vietnam and he made it clear that war isnt pretty, so I know what it is all about. You people always think you know more then you actually really do.
I love this country enough to give my life for it, you love it enough to hide from it when it needs you.
When you are torn between two loves its sometimes hard to make the right choice.

Analyze that…

Ill bet if some guy walked up to your girlfriend or wife and punched her in the mouth, you would defend her (Im hoping) Thats because you love her

Well if you TRULY loved your country, you would do the same for it. Thats the big difference between us my friend, there isnt no “its scary” about it, Im ready to go scary or not.

And yes I feel that Iraq with a psycho leader like Saddam carried hatred for the US and would gladly work with and fund terrorists. So that was a threat to my homeland and reason to fight.

The helping the poor people living under his rule was a bonus.

Its obvious that Iraq harbored terrorists. I mean comon look whats going on there now.

The people our men are dealing with there now arent military, car bombs are not a military attack those are terrorist acts that were learned in training camps.

It dosent take a genuis to see the place is full of them.

Steve C.; I’ll go ahead and respond to your last four posts since I know you’re really lonely. Of course, since you ignored my previous post correcting your various errors, I assume you’ll ignore this one too and we’ll finally be rid of you.
– I love this country enough to give my life for it, you love it enough to hide from it when it needs you.
Unlike you, I did serve our country. I was in the military for 26 years. You found excuses not to serve. Either join up or shut up.
– Thats the big difference between us my friend… Im ready to go scary or not.
Yes, the difference is that I served and you didn’t. I already told you to join up or shut up. Chickenhawks make me sick!
– And yes I feel that Iraq with a psycho leader like Saddam carried hatred for the US and would gladly work with and fund terrorists. So that was a threat to my homeland and reason to fight.
Frankly, I don’t give a damn what you “feel”. The facts were different. Saddam didn’t “work with” terrorists. He never funded any anti-American terrorists. He was never a threat to your homeland unless your homeland was Iran, Kuwait, or Israel and he was no longer even a threat to them. In fact, the CIA said the only way he ever would fund terrorist was if he was attacked. That’s the opposite of “a reason to fight”. You’re an idiot!
– Its(sic) obvious that Iraq harbored terrorists. I mean comon(sic) look whats(sic) going on there now.
Prior to our invasion, there was a small group of terrorists under al Zarqawi in Iraq. They were in the Northern No-Fly Zone in an area where Saddam had no control (but right next to the area controlled by our friends the Kurds). All rumors of cooperation between the Iraqi government and that group have been shown to be bogus, the majority was disinformation by Iraqi exiles that wanted to push the US to invade. The President was presented with plans to take Zarqawi out on three separate occasions but Bush refused because he felt it would weaken the case for invasion. As for the attacks going on now, you’re confusing cause and effect. A grand total of zero terrorist attacks against Americans came out of Iraq in the last quarter century (compared with numerous attacks in or from Iran, the Philippines, Saudi Arabia, and a host of others). The only thing that has changed is that we invaded. To use attacks against an occupying army as justification for the invasion in the first place is just bizarre. If someone were to invade the US, I would certainly hope that you would help me oppose them, even if it meant fighting a guerilla war. Even if you are “one year past recruiting age” (what the heck was your age three years ago, right after 9/11, Chickenhawk?!) and even if your girlfriend asks you not to.

Bottom line, you’re a screaming loon who confuses slogans with logic and blind allegiance to a particular political party with patriotism. For the last time, please just shut up.

Its obvious that getting through to you on why I didnt join is useless. But that dosent surprise me and you go ahead and belive what you want.

You seem to know so much about my life and so much about me and why I didnt join , can you back that up with where I live, my girlfriends name and other vital information needed to be understaood before coming up with that conclusion?

And QUOTE: Even if you are “one year past recruiting age” (what the heck was your age three years ago, right after 9/11, Chickenhawk?!) and even if your girlfriend asks you not to.

Why dont you try reading my post right below it informed one…..

Its a classic example of the information you have on your decision making, You make it up in you head.

Smoke another one mojo…

Bottom line mojo, you know nothing about me or my life to make that accusation. But thats what you people do, instead of having solid information to go by, you write the story and take it for reality.

Hi’

I stumbled across this page looking for a picture of michael moores’ daughter but seeing as I’m hear let me just say how sad it is to see yet another heated political debate reduced to name-calling and emotional garbage from the heights of reason and learned debate.
Really! You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves! It hardly matters who started it, one misplaced word like “troll” can propagate a whole wave of ill-feeling and festering hatred that simply causes both sides to become introverted and personel in everything they say to the opposition. This thread started over a disagreement on the interpretation of a warning. Some called it scare-mongering others argued it was technically correct but with one word you allowed yourselves to fall into a simple spiral of hate. And in the midst of your war of words the facts of recent history (Never clear, always disputed – but readable nevertheless) and the will to argue itself (from the greek “aguer” – ‘to persuade through reason’) became the most noteworthy casualties. My advice to all of you? Grow up! You think either side in this debate would bother carrying it on merely to infuriate the other and not because of an abiding passion in what they believe to be right? With a little mutual respect – I.e. a mutual apology from the main belligerents – the channel of an honest arguement is opened once again. Those who came not to truly argue but simply to attack others will be shown for the sputem they are in the face of a show of integrity of that magnitude. For what it’s worth I consider the comment by dick to be technically correct BUT a piece of fear politics by reason of an implied suggestion and exageration of the possibility of it happening at all and the time frame in which it could happen. I will not bother attempting to qualify my arguement any further until both sides can learn TO argue again. Mutual respect is the basis of all rational debate, you needn’t say you think the other person has any point at all you only need say your sorry to have insulted them. We must always be careful of making a mirror of our enemies…

Yours sincerely and respectfully,

Alex

eventually someone WILL nuke a part of the USA

i think it’ll be what they call karma

and to paraphrase

People who live in vast countries too difficult to defend at all times . . .
shouldn’t drop bombs

Duck and cover!

If i had to choose

USA with its “we’re with God”
or
Middle East full of muslims

I’d nuke the fucking lot of you

There is NO god

and everyone who ever heard a clarion call in gods name

is a cunt

@ betterNOgod

after you die,
you will go to hell. of course