For God’s sake
Posted on July 11th, 2008 by Brad
If any of your have time today, please send a well-written and intelligent note to University of Minnesota President Robert Bruininks defending our pal PZ Myers, who is under assault from the Catholic League for making fun of a cracker. Yeah, I’m serious. Crazy Dark Ages bastards…
It is hard to think of anything more vile than to intentionally desecrate the Body of Christ.
Just give me a second.
Won’t somebody please think of the little baby crackers?
Would cheddary hosts be called Jeezits?
I’m such a bad person.
Oh, THAT kind of cracker. What with Phil Gramm and Jesse Helms all over teh intartubez these past few days, that wasn’t my first thought.
Someone needs to steal enough wafers to make a Piss Mohammed. That is what someone needs to do.
Would cheddary hosts be called Jeezits?
Cheesus is Lard.
I have read Sadly, No! and Pharygula every single day since I found them.
Thor be praised for your efforts.
Pizza be with you.
zzx just made my point, too.
Holding one hostage is freakin’ brilliant. I’d love to see the ransom note, in
cut-out newspaper and magazine words, in Latin. (Insert “We have your wafer. If you want to see it whole and undesecrated again, leave ten thousand dollars, no, wait, Euros, in unmarked bills, in the” etc., in LATIN joke, here.)
Oddly enough, I am reminded of a big brouhaha a while back concerning a cartoon depiction of some Muslim guy. Oh, those wacky monotheists and their various blasphemies! It’s always a laff riot with these peaceful loving religiosities and their One True Way(s).
Correct speling is “Pharyngula”, you dumb jerkoff.
From the looney in question;
““It is hard to think of anything more vile than to intentionally desecrate the Body of Christ. We look to those who have oversight responsibility to act quickly and decisively.””
He’s right, Rape, genocide, all pale into insignificance compared to an unspecified act of vandalism against a bit of wheat.
He’d better stick to covering it with saliva, chewing it, mixing it with alcohol and digesting it slowly before passing it into the sewers. That’ll show proper respect.
He’s just trying to play catch-up with the more insane Cartoon Outrage Merchants, isn’t he?
Pictures of the cracker on a table bracketed by people covered in Clean room gear.
Cheez-whiz and salsa in hand…
I want Donohole to explain over and over in public how Baby Jesus magically changes a cracker into his body and wine into his blood, and how it’s really real blood and flesh–and then you eat it.
He’s right, Rape, genocide, all pale into insignificance compared to an unspecified act of vandalism against a bit of wheat.
It’s certainly much more offensive than covering for sexual predators within the church.
Jesus to the whole world: “Eat me.”
If they want to honor the body of Christ so much, they could start by pairing him with a better wine. After wandering in the desert his whole life, Jesus’ flesh is much too gamey for that cheap Merlot schlock you find at most churches. Is a decent Cab too much to ask for our Lord and Savior?
He’s right, Rape, genocide, all pale into insignificance compared to an unspecified act of vandalism against a bit of wheat.
But…but…the priest mumbled some words over it! Now *snap* it’s GAWD!
In all seriousness, this is one of those situations where I think that everyone involved is wrong (albeit to different degrees). Yeah, Donohue is batshit crazy, but it really is obnoxious to insult someone else’s beliefs in that way. (In this case, it seems to be pointlessly obnoxious.)
Don’t get me wrong. I think it’s just a damn cracker, much like the Koran and the Bible are just books and Mohammed and Jesus were just some guys. And I don’t think Myers or the student should face any consequences other than public criticism. But there’s nothing particularly useful or surprising about showing that you can really piss people off by mocking their beliefs.
Calling communion hosts crackers is an undue elevation of those bland little wafers so a cheddary flavoring would be a nice improvement. Or maybe Teh Church could start using those tasty little shrimp crackers. Yum yum. And don’t even get me started on the Blood of ChristTM. Even as an 8th grade altar boy sneaking a swig backstage I could tell the wine they used was for shit. There are decent wines available for $7 a bottle fer chrissakes. Why does the Church hate Jesus so much that they transubtantiate him into to such shitty forms?
MrNicky recalls the time he was on a retreat with fellow Episcopalians and the priest threw leftover communion wafers out into the woods for the deer and birds. Apparently many folks recoiled in horror at his action. When the priest posited that the animals were all God’s creatures, too, the objection was made that, be that as it may, none of them had been properly christened.
I like to sit around and point and laugh at the ludicrous shenanigans of all the various godbags in the world, except it quickly becomes not fun.
We need pushback towards religion. Being religious doesn’t make anyone special, and they don’t deserve respect just because they believe in magical creatures. We have enough problems in the real world without having to deal with someone’s supernatural fantasies.
“It is hard to think of anything more vile than to intentionally desecrate the Body of Christ. ”
Cannibalism?
I’d like to disagree, TC. I find mockery very useful. You may not change the mind of your target, but you may influence those on the edge who can still think. Isn’t mockery what S,N! does best? And here we are.
And of course, the parable of the loaves and the Goldfishes.
One more Cracker sir? Its wafer-thin!
Oh my Gawd, a spelling error, a fucked up tag and I was beaten to the punch by pedestrian. All in one comment. I really hope Sister Magadalene isn’t reading this or the blasphemic content of my comment will be the least of my worries.
Does God love us despite our Wheat Sins?
Man. I went to a party once a few years ago, and one of the snacks was peanut-butter-dipped communion wafers. Those things were sacrilicious. I should get the recipe from the host (of the party, not the crackers) and send it to Donohue.
But…but…the priest mumbled some words over it! Now *snap* it’s GAWD!
So….the logical question is, Why not let the guy make off with his stolen cracker and have the priest mumble some different words and make it Not God anymore? Fixed problem!
I don’t really have any problem with verbal mockery, and I largely agree–I once saw a great monologue that made me think quite a lot about the silliness of the whole transubstantiation idea. (I want to say that it was by George Carlin, but I can’t seem to find it now. Key quote: “How come when the priest magicks the wheat cracker into human flesh, it still tastes like…a wheat cracker? You’d think Jesus would taste like chicken or something.”)
The thing is, people can always tune out verbal mockery if they want. When someone comes into their church and messes with their stuff, though, that’s different to me. As I said before, I don’t consider it *that* horrendous–unlike Donohue, I can certainly think of far worse things than fiddling with a cracker. I’d put it somewhere near the category of “uncivil” or “rude” or “obnoxious”–no worse than that.
When someone comes into their church and messes with their stuff, though, that’s different to me.
The cracker’s EULA: it may be in your mouth but it’s still ours.
I wonder how many wingnuts have, say, posted videos of themselves desecrating a Koran. I know I’ve seen one where a guy uses it for target practice.
—————————————————————————————————–
Trilateral Chairman said,
July 11, 2008 at 16:24
In all seriousness, this is one of those situations where I think that everyone involved is wrong (albeit to different degrees). Yeah, Donohue is batshit crazy, but it really is obnoxious to insult someone else’s beliefs in that way. (In this case, it seems to be pointlessly obnoxious.)
Don’t get me wrong. I think it’s just a damn cracker, much like the Koran and the Bible are just books and Mohammed and Jesus were just some guys. And I don’t think Myers or the student should face any consequences other than public criticism. But there’s nothing particularly useful or surprising about showing that you can really piss people off by mocking their beliefs.
—————————————————————————————————–
I wholly agree.
The crazy man is using his religion as a baseball bat, to get away with his craziness. If you can’t touch his religion, you can’t fight him.
Dominus Nabisco
I wonder how many wingnuts have, say, posted videos of themselves desecrating a Koran. I know I’ve seen one where a guy uses it for target practice.
Ah, but we are of course a
CHRISTIANJUDEO-CHRISTIAN nation, you dirty heathen liberal!But there’s nothing particularly useful or surprising about showing that you can really piss people off by mocking their beliefs.
Not surprising, but certainly useful.
As PZ’s getting death threats, should the Catholic Church be put on the list of known terrorist organizations?
And does Donohue actually have the authority to issue a fatwah?
See, ‘wafers and wine’ was much better than ‘Long-pork and Lager’ but nobody every listened.
Incidentally, if I remember correctly, this all started because some guy nicked a Communion wafer and the Catholics want it back.
Here’s my question: What are they going to do with it if they *do* get it back? Is there some sort of procedure for de-desecrating/reconsecrating the cracker? I’m sure there must be–these being Catholics, they have procedures for everything (not surprising, given that they’ve had about two millennia to make ’em up).
I just have this creepy vision of a bunch of priests and laypeople treating the wayward cracker like a found puppy–setting it on a nice warm cushion, brushing it clean, cooing over it and stroking it. Someone please tell me I’m wrong.
“It is hard to think of anything more vile than to intentionally desecrate the Body of Christ.”
Well, in my church (Episcopal) when I was a lad, stealing the social hour coffee cake was much worse.
If you’ve ever tried to swallow one of those wafers, you’d WISH it was a cracker. More like heavy-bond paper with a thin coat of shellac.
Iesu Crispy Domilicious!
I don’t think you can de-consecrate a cracker. If you drop one during communnion you’re supposed to pick it up and eat it. Remember, the priests supposedly truely believe it’s been magically transformed into the body of Christ.
It used to stick to the roof of my mouth all the time. Why couldn’t Jesus have consecrated some croissants or beignets?
I blame Moses.
Very yes.
Thanks to the wonderful Patriot Act, if someone or an organization makes personal death threats, they can be put on the terrorist organization watch list and/or no-fly list. I would love to see Donohue’s ass wind up on the no-fly list.
Sadly, true.
He just goes around looking for the stupidest thing he can do to piss off the Left.
And I don’t even know why I’m still posting, when the thread’s been won by “Jeezits” already…
Here’s my question: What are they going to do with it if they *do* get it back? Is there some sort of procedure for de-desecrating/reconsecrating the cracker? I’m sure there must be–these being Catholics, they have procedures for everything (not surprising, given that they’ve had about two millennia to make ‘em up).
The local Boy Scout troop has to reverently incinerate it.
BTW, why did Cook steal the cracker? I didn’t get a sense as to why he wanted to do it? Was he going to take pictures of it around the world with a garden gnome or something?
The thing that bugs me the most about this sort of frat boy “ha ha, I got your wafer, duuuuude” nonsense is how chickenshit all of it is.
Offending ultra-orthodox Catholics? Now, if he was a real man, he’d go for offending ultra-orthodox Muslims and see what happens.
When someone comes into their church and messes with their stuff, though, that’s different to me.
This story began when a guy just took the cracker and held onto it instead of eating it. I don’t see how that’s messing with their stuff. They started the ruckus by grabbing the guy and trying to force the cracker out of his hand.
if I remember correctly, this all started because some guy nicked a Communion wafer and the Catholics want it back.
Here’s my question: What are they going to do with it if they *do* get it back?
Brilliant question!
I know you can buy bags full of Teh Eucharist on the ‘net, and I’m willing to bet I could buy a bag or two over at the local christian bookstore.
I could do all kinds of rotten things with a bag full of Teh Eucharist. Use ’em for bait while fishing, use ’em for pie crust, cover ’em in Unsanctified Queso, snarf ’em while watching “Hellboy II”…
Dammit, we need a Communion Wafer recipe contest…
Why does the Church hate Jesus so much that they transubtantiate him into to such shitty forms?
Yeah, they should be transmogrifying Him into Doritos and a Red Bull.
Hellboy!
Offending ultra-orthodox Catholics? Now, if he was a real man, he’d go for offending ultra-orthodox Muslims and see what happens.
The guy’s already been getting death threats from Donohue and his pals. I rather suspect there’s not that much difference between Bill Donohue and Osama bin Laden.
Yeah, they should be transmogrifying Him into Doritos and a Red Bull.
That would bring the Youth back, right there.
Now that we mention it, it is odd they don’t use meat for this purpose.
MrNicky recalls the time he was on a retreat with fellow Episcopalians and the priest threw leftover communion wafers out into the woods for the deer and birds. Apparently many folks recoiled in horror at his action.
The church my lovely wife attends does the same thing — with consencrated bread, mind you! — every Sunday, for exactly the same reason. They even appoint one of the kids “St. Francis minister” to take it outside and feed the birds. I think it’s kind of cute.
And it’s a very dry cracker at that. Totally flavorless. Completely unhelpful in the matters of chowder and onion dip and various cheeses.
And don’t even get me started on that sticky-sweet shit they call “wine” (or is it blood?).
In all seriousness, this is one of those situations where I think that everyone involved is wrong (albeit to different degrees). Yeah, Donohue is batshit crazy, but it really is obnoxious to insult someone else’s beliefs in that way. (In this case, it seems to be pointlessly obnoxious.)
If PZ had just woken up one morning and decided to insult the communion it would be stupid and pointless. He was reacting to the hounding and death threats that another person received after taking a wafer home without chewing. I don’t know what motivated that individual (who eventually gave it back) but PZ’s point was that a cracker is less important than a person.
Will he convince devout Catholics that there is nothing sacred about communion? No, but that isn’t the point. We should all respect each other’s right to have all sorts of crazy beliefs, but when human life is threatened, a line has been crossed. This absurd situation is drawing attention to that line and, at the very least, diverting the fury of the mob to himself and away from a person with fewer allies.
I’m with him 100%.
Myers has nothing to worry about. Seriously, academics don’t get fired over shit like this.
I know you can buy bags full of Teh Eucharist on the ‘net, and I’m willing to bet I could buy a bag or two over at the local christian bookstore.
Those aren’t consecrated.
Donohue is a loon. One of my favorite movie review sites pointed out that all the great (um, well…) nunsploitation films are made in Italy and Spain — Catholic countries, the both of them.
I hope Donohue never sees a Ken Russell film or he’d blow every gasket.
This story began when a guy just took the cracker and held onto it instead of eating it. I don’t see how that’s messing with their stuff. They started the ruckus by grabbing the guy and trying to force the cracker out of his hand.
Catholics are pretty strict about who takes Communion–whether or not you agree with that, that’s their terms and you’re on their turf. Behaving as he did is very much “messing with their stuff.”
They also contend that they didn’t touch him at all, which at this point in time has more legal weight than the cracker-stealer’s claim, as they have more witnesses.
It was a stupid stunt, and yeah, the whole situation is absurd all around. But lumping Donohoe in with the actual campus church is pretty fucking stupid, and nothing makes it NOT a dumb, pointless, rude thing to do.
And it’s a very dry cracker at that.
Made by the Southern Cracker Company, no doubt.
It’s summer time, Bill Donohue, so good luck with that.
Also, and those of you familiar with the Minnesota system, please correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the president is the head of the whole state university system. The head of Myers’ campus would be a chancellor. So good luck with that one, too.
See, ‘wafers and wine’ was much better than ‘Long-pork and Lager’ but nobody every listened.
Not sure if anybody cares, but in all likelihood the ritual did start with beer, as part of the Jesus mythology is derived from the Egyptian Osiris mythology. There was some similar Egyptian ritual to honor Osiris which involved consuming beer and bread, since they’re made from grain and Osiris was a harvest god. Presumably early Christians subbed in wine because it was the booze of choice up in the Mediterranean where Christianity really took hold.
Robert Price’s The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man is a very entertaining yet super-dense and well-researched book full of cool insights like this.
Those aren’t consecrated.
Dipped in Kool-aid?
Blue Buddha: also the whole legal penalties for “material support” thingy. Putting pocket change in the bedpan-onna-stick: fraught with legal peril?
I think it’s kind of cute.
Gregory: I agree, it is exceedingly cute. The paucity of cuteness resides with the godbag parishioners protesting that, not having been baptized, the birds and squirrels shouldn’t get the wafers.
Righteous Bubba said: Not surprising, but certainly useful.
I guess I don’t see how. As far as I can tell, this whole incident illustrates the following:
* Religious people believe some super weird things.
* People get mightily pissed off when you do (or threaten to do) something they see as a desecration.
* A small proportion of those people are crazy enough to issue death threats.
Is any of this news? Maybe it’s because I grew up in an area with lots of Catholics, but I’ve known for decades that they take the cracker very very seriously. I’ve even seen some lapsed Catholics get twitchy about it. When I was in junior high, a Jewish friend of mine decided to go to Catholic services just to see what the “other half” (in his words) was up to. He went by himself, and when people got up to take Communion, he went too (not realizing that he wasn’t supposed to). When he talked about it with our self-described “recovering Catholic” friend, she chewed him out at the top of her lungs for something like twenty minutes. He got the whole litany: he’d committed an unforgivable sin, he was going to Hell, he’d insulted Jesus himself and every Catholic everywhere, he should never enter a Catholic church anymore. She said she wasn’t sure she could still be friends with him–she wasn’t sure she could be in the same *room* with him.
This was in my view quite silly, but that’s how it is. So I hear this and I think “There they go again.” Nothing new, nothing surprising.
Presumably early Christians subbed in wine because it was the booze of choice up in the Mediterranean where Christianity really took hold.
I kind of doubt that, as it was based on the Passover seder, which used wine. I think beer is one of the products that has to be utterly removed from the premises during the run-up.
Isn’t Donohue’s outfit one of those three-man Scaife-funded wingnut front companies anyway? How did he get to speak for the Church?
cuz if you don’t mock they ASSUME you approve…
Those aren’t consecrated.
Do you think Donohue would care? Get a video of me sticking ’em on a fishhook and catching bluegill with ’em, and he’d have a fit, consecrated or not.
Not sure if anybody cares, but in all likelihood the ritual did start with beer, as part of the Jesus mythology is derived from the Egyptian Osiris mythology. There was some similar Egyptian ritual to honor Osiris which involved consuming beer and bread, since they’re made from grain and Osiris was a harvest god.
I read in a Jack Chick tract that IHS doesn’t stand for “In His Service” but for “Isis Horus Seb”. So yeah, all those Catholics who think they are going to heaven when they die are going to be really surprised when they end up in Auru instead. Suckas!!
If there was ever an example of “every silly superstition has within it the capacity for great violence and mayhem” this, along with FUCKING CARTOONS is the one that ought to wake people up to the madness.
And I’m sorry, for those of you who think mocking people’s “beliefs” is wrong, that’s bullshit. You’re just being selective about the beliefs. If they think the world is flat, you mock them, but if they believe a very specific just so story called christianity, that’s off limits?
Screw that…
mikey
You believe that Donohue actually cares about rudeness toward a communion wafer? I figured that he just wanted to stomp on someone, and bellow at a secularist, and this provided an opportunity.
How did he get to speak for the Church?
Bill O’Reilly, Chris Matthews, Pat Buchanan and Sean Hannity went looking for the biggest loudest stupidest asshole they could find to help them defend their faith?
This kind of thinking has always been a big mystery to me, and I belong to a religious tradition that venerates the Eucharist in a manner that is similar to Roman Catholics.
Here’s my problem: if the Jesus cookie really is Jesus, who is, in turn, God, what on Earth could anyone do to the Jesus cookie that would be of any consequence. God is omnipotent, unchangeable, and just all around awesome. Right? So how can a mere human do anything to the Jesus cookie that is of any consequence.
Yes, it might be offensive to those who are devoted to the Jesus cookie, and—according to the Jesus cookie devotees—it imperils the immortal soul of the person who is doing the desecration. But those aren’t good justifications for the Catholic Anti-Defamation League to let the cheese slide completely off its cracker and go on some kind of papal jihad.
Here’s an appropriate response:
“We are very sorry that you have chosen to engage in acts to attempt to defile our Lord and Savior and that place your soul at risk of eternal torment. We are confident, however, that Jesus is much bigger and more powerful that even the most heinous act that you might attempt to commit. Therefore, although we will continue to pray for you, we will otherwise be ignoring your feeble, gnat-like attempts to mock God.”
This is not an appropriate response:
“Someone has purloined a eucharistic wafer! Quick, call out the Vatican SWAT team! If we don’t get it back soon, the entire universe is in peril!”
And I’m sorry, for those of you who think mocking people’s “beliefs” is wrong, that’s bullshit. You’re just being selective about the beliefs. If they think the world is flat, you mock them, but if they believe a very specific just so story called christianity, that’s off limits?
Amen.
Bill Donohue owes me $20!
This is not an appropriate response:
“Someone has purloined a eucharistic wafer! Quick, call out the Vatican SWAT team! If we don’t get it back soon, the entire universe is in peril!”
However, this would make an absolutely awesome comic book.
I guess I don’t see how. As far as I can tell, this whole incident illustrates the following:
* Religious people believe some super weird things.
This first point is important. The Catholic Church receives regular attacks for its positions on a variety of things, and attacking those things brings a lot of non-religious baggage with it, abortion for instance.
Attacking a moral authority on the basis of its kookiness seems awfully cost-effective to me.
In an argument with Catholics over abortion, in other words, I think I’m right but I may see no gain out of it. In an argument over whether or not magic crackers turn to human flesh which we should consume, I think the church can only look ridiculous, which is good.
There are ways to mock. Myeres’ post on the Central Florida Eucharist wasn’t particularly insightful, amusing, or graceful.
I think I’ve mentioned this before, but since the subject is so apropos I’ll do it again:
I was raised on French Canadian culture, which is fearfully catholic and, as such, the strongest obscenities were the most blasphemous ones.
For example, when somebody (usually an old man) was really, really pissed he’d stomp his foot on the ground one time and mutter “Hosti!”
That word was short for ‘Chapeau pleine d’hostis,’ literally ‘Hat full of hosts (crackers).’ The sentiment was that a fistful of consecrated crackers got shoved into a hat, the hat got thrown on the ground, and then got stomped on.
There are a couple of others, but I’ll stop at this.
Look, even non-lapsed Catholics know deep-down that the idea of transubstantiation is a bit silly. Go ahead and mock the Eucharist by calling it a “cracker” or “magic cookie” or whatever. None of that’s nearly as clever as my friend’s offhand comment on the way back from Communion one Sunday long ago: “Hm, chewy Jesus.” (Okay, maybe is was his delivery.) But promising to desecrate it? That’s not mockery, that’s just being an asshole.
As posted at Pharyngula…
Michelle @ #696 – Wrap a Koran in bacon? Why does that seem terribly mild to me?
Seems smoky and delicious to me.
I think we’ve all been dancing around the real issue here, the proverbial elephant in the room…the disgusting, nigh-flavorless tragedy that is the communion wafer. Wholly unidentifable as an actual bread product, these thin, tiny rounds of what appears to be off-white polystyrene are an absolute abomination and an affront to my tastebuds. I’d have thought that the transubstantiated body of the Savior of Man would be full-bodied, rich, and flavorful.
I don’t blame a guy for having one of these gastronomical horrors hit his tongue and then not be able to bring himself to swallow it, but instead flee the scene looking for a safe place to spit it out and possibly bury it, lest some other poor sod happen upon it.
At least the hole-in-the-wall fundie Baptist church I was dragged to as a kid used Ritz crackers. Buttery and delicious, like Jesus should be.
Until the Catholic Church comes to its senses and reforms to the point of allowing some melted cheese, green onion, maybe a little hard salami on those vile little poker chips they call communion wafers, then we simply have nothing to say to one another.
Dear Bill,
I see you’ve got your rubber undies all knotted up over this thing. Calm down son, take it easy.
The fact is, Christ tastes like shit. Well, He actually tastes like absolutely nothing but it’s the best we can do. We say the magic words and click our heels three times but He never comes out with any flavor. Makes me wonder if He was, in actuality, perhaps only a poster or something. Don’t let this get out, by the way, people would freak if they found out the top people don’t have much faith.
Anyway, what we do here in the papal diner is we toast them a bit – they pick up a touch of flavor that way. I like mine with bruschetta. That fat pig of a cardinal Arinze slathers his with cheap chicken liver pate. Disgusting.
Also, since the blood wine is so fucking nasty, we just skip that part and pop open a jeroboam of Veuve Cliquot. You have my Papal OK if y’all want to do it like we do here in Rome.
I’m so glad you sent me over to Pharyngula. Today’s Creationist takedown is hilarious:
That’ll leave a mark!
I always skipped the Body and went straight for the Blood. The Gallo brothers are going to rot in Hell, that’s for sure.
But promising to desecrate it? That’s not mockery, that’s just being an asshole.
Sure. So what? The more thinking about transubstantiation the better.
Christ on a cracker!
Until the Catholic Church comes to its senses and reforms to the point of allowing some melted cheese, green onion, maybe a little hard salami on those vile little poker chips they call communion wafers, then we simply have nothing to say to one another.
Even if they did, we’d still have nothing to say to one another.
I agree with what Spy magazine once said about the Catholic church: It’s the scariest most dangerous institution on earth.
The Catholic Church spent two thousand years telling women “all your vaginas belong to us.”
Screw ’em.
If the wafers turn into Jesus, no wonder they turn out the way they did. Old boy went a couple weeks in the backcountry with not enough water, then got flogged and nailed to a board, left to die in the hot sun.
Could Jesus REALLY have been chewy or even a little bit salty after that? I highly doubt it.
The other good thing about mockery is how it drives the loonies nucking futs. So they ratchet up the looniness and pretty soon even people who were willing to let the small manias and phobias slide are then forced to pause and say, “holy fekking shite! They’re absolutely wacko, aren’t they? I thought they were just an annoyance, now I see they’re dangerous.”
I’m tempted to film wiping my ass with communion wafers just to make their heads explode.
Since it is made using yeast, it is not considered “unleavened,” though wine does, and that’s okay, because it’s made with grapes or other fruit, not grain.
I’m not saying it makes any sense.
So Jesus was made of crackers?
The Catholic Church: Dragging Humankind Backward Into Barbarism Since AD 33.
But promising to desecrate it? That’s not mockery, that’s just being an asshole.
I wish to revise my opinion: I would laugh at someone torturing a cracker, preferably with dental equipment.
Or tiny little battery cables.
It’s alive!!!!
Bill O’Reilly, Chris Matthews, Pat Buchanan and Sean Hannity went looking for the biggest loudest stupidest asshole they could find to help them defend their faith?
Kind of like the NY Post and the Daily News deciding in the ’80s that Al Sharpton as a loud mouthed buffoon sporting a ludicrous hairstyle, velour jogging suits and oversized gold medallions would be the perfect person to voice the grievances of the black community in NYC? I guess if I were still a believing Catholic my resentment at the idea of him as a spokesperson for my beliefs might cause me to suspect not those guys but their bosses and producers.
A little black cracker-hood to go with those cables and a crate to make it stand up…
I didn’t make Jesus out of those nasty, tasteless wafers.
Jesus was made of matzoh. I thought everybody knew that
And I’m sorry, for those of you who think mocking people’s “beliefs” is wrong, that’s bullshit. You’re just being selective about the beliefs. If they think the world is flat, you mock them, but if they believe a very specific just so story called christianity, that’s off limits?
QFMFT. And it’s not like the target in this case is weaksauce. This isn’t a case of “kicking someone when they’re down.” This is a political group (never forget it) that has no qualms about harassing or seeking to harm someone for the high crime of dissing a cracker. A higher crime, in Donahue’s eyes, clearly, than molesting altar boys (remember, “hard to imagine something more vile”). Or the sending of death threats, both to the original student and to Myers.
And yes, Myers can be an asshole. Good on him. I’m starting to think this fight needs a few more like him.
Don’t forget, this all started over a cracker. A cracker that a distressingly large part of the population believes magically turns into the flesh of a semi-divine prophet who allegedly lived 2000 years ago when a priest makes the appropriate magical gestures and incantations over it. And this belief partially enables a church’s goal of maintaining complete moral authority over the lives of its members.
The question isn’t “Why should we mock them?” (or be assholes to them, or whatever). The question is “Why shouldn’t we?”
as someone who was raised Catholic, was educated in Catholic school and strives to live up to the better teachings I got out of all of that, i can only say that Bill Donohue should choke on a big bag of dick. Bingo Billy is a gigantic embarassment to the millions of non-batshit crazy people who have ever been Catholic.
I’m tempted to film wiping my ass with communion wafers just to make their heads explode.
Saudi Prince: Do you ever feel a little guilty? These people have to see how they are being exploited. The idea of American democracy or “free markets”… sometimes it all seems so foolish that I wonder if the propoganda is for them or for us.
Advisor: Are you crazy? Look at these riots on TV! All over some cookie or something. These people are primitive half-savages. They have no history or culture. If they didn’t have us to organize their economy for them, they would have killed themselves off long ago.
He might have an interest in satanic lesbian nuns…but then again, who doesn’t?
Bingo Billy is a gigantic embarassment to the millions of non-batshit crazy people who have ever been Catholic.
Yeah. I have lots of Catholic relatives who are normal and would probably have laughed over the dumb stunt that that kid pulled.
Fixed.
Fixed.
At least my childhood loony-protestant church had the good sense to realize that communion’s value is *symbolic,* not literal.
That was my biggest shock when I got to Catholic h.s. “You mean… you think… this is literally… flesh and blood? Seriously? Because you said some words?” Uhhhhyup.
I mean, that’s what transubstantiation is all about, isn’t it?
I see Andrew Sullivan has posted his usual bullshit-ist take on this controversy.
The question isn’t “Why should we mock them?” (or be assholes to them, or whatever). The question is “Why shouldn’t we?”
Because religion is a personal choice – and you’d have no moral authority to slam the proselytizers for their efforts at trying to “spread the word” when your own response to someone’s differing belief is public mockery.
I agree with PZ Myers: the whole wafer fiasco was quite stupid – but his response was equally puerile. He may have rationality on his side, most of the time, but that trait wasn’t in evidence when he threatened to destroy the sacred objects of a religious group for no better a reason than because he himself believes differently.
“I don’t agree with their beliefs, which are stupid; so I’m, like, totally justified in pissing all over them whenever the opportunity presents itself. They’re religionists, so it isn’t as if I need to extend them even the most basic level of civility or respect.”
Fucking anti-theists are becoming just as irritating as religious fundamentalists.
We think the fair way to settle this is to do a DNA test on the Eucharist/cracker. Human DNA? It’s the Eucharist! Wheat DNA? It’s a cracker!
Then the loosing side publicly apologizes to the other.
Whaddya say, Mr. Donohue?
MadRaven, I was just getting ready to say that, and you beat me to it. Thanks.
As the very liberal Father Andrew Greeley said of Donohue, “”Those who cave into his threats are creating a monster.”
I mean, that’s what transubstantiation is all about, isn’t it?
Fundamentalists just have a different idea of what is fundamental. Certain concepts like transubstantiation (“This is my body, this is my blood”) and the apostolic succession (You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church.”) aren’t so very important. As Chief Wiggum so wisely put it, “The Bible says a lot of things.”
They also contend that they didn’t touch him at all
Sadly, No. From the story link:
Cook claims he planned to consume it, but first wanted to show it to a fellow student senator he brought to Mass who was curious about the Catholic faith.
“When I received the Eucharist, my intention was to bring it back to my seat to show him,” Cook said. “I took about three steps from the woman distributing the Eucharist and someone grabbed the inside of my elbow and blocked the path in front of me. At that point I put it in my mouth so they’d leave me alone and I went back to my seat and I removed it from my mouth.”
A church leader was watching, confronted Cook and tried to recover the sacred bread. Cook said she crossed the line and that’s why he brought it home with him.
“She came up behind me, grabbed my wrist with her right hand, with her left hand grabbed my fingers and was trying to pry them open to get the Eucharist out of my hand,” Cook said, adding she wouldn’t immediately take her hands off him despite several requests.
Diocese of Orlando spokeswoman Carol Brinati said she was not aware of anyone touching Cook.
Non-denial denial.
I’m not saying the guy isn’t probably a jerk, but let’s not assign him the only blame for “disruption.” He got the cracker and palmed it and tried to go back to his seat. Someone grabbed him, he put it in his mouth. He went to his seat and then (eeuuw) took it out of his mouth. Someone confronted him.
They either tried to pry it out of his hand, as he says, or not. If they didn’t, then what’s the story?
If all he had done was take it, go back to his seat, and then smuggle it out, there’s no story.
The story is that they saw him take it, and confronted him. Whether said confrontation involved touching him to grab it back, or just involved a verbal interaction, it seems to me that the church members disrupted the service, not the guy. As far as I can tell by the news story, no one is contending he did anything other than palm the cracker and refuse to give it back when confronted. There’s no alternate story that he ran up and down the aisle shouting “Nyah Nyah!” or held it up “Look what I got!”
Anyway, who cares? He apparently gave it back in a baggie the next day, after someone threatened to break into his room to get it back, according to another story I read.
The state of political correctness in this nation is absolutely ridiculous. Don Imus gets fired for making a joke on a satirical radio show and the left was completely outraged.
But when a professor in a university setting makes fun of the world’s largest Christian denomination thus offending 1 billion believers the left rushes to this fools defense.
Bill Donahue and the Catholic League are right folks, Christians are the only group that it is ok to make fun of.
Imagine if a Catholic Bishop said similar remarks about an Islamic ritual. The global left would be outraged and you know it.
There is a huge double standard in the West in our modern days where political correctness runs amok to crucify (pardon the pun) anyone who dares to make fun of any “sainted” minority group such as muslims, blacks or gays. But will tolerate and encourage the same such mocking of Christians and whites, the very people who made Western Civilization the greatest in world history.
The age of political correctness needs to end folks.
Because religion is a personal choice – and you’d have no moral authority to slam the proselytizers for their efforts at trying to “spread the word” when your own response to someone’s differing belief is public mockery.
It wasn’t a personal choice for thousands of heretics burned at the stake by a powerful religion. It’s not a personal choice for the individuals involved when practitioners of said religion dedicate themselves to terrorizing huge swaths of the undeveloped world into believing they’ll burn in hell if they don’t seek entry into heaven the “one true way.” It’s not a personal choice for women when religion interferes with their ability to decide whether to obtain birth control or continue a pregnancy. And if the religion in question isn’t secure enough in its absolutist beliefs to withstand “public” mockery, then perhaps its alleged moral authority shouldn’t be just mocked, but disabused.
Fucking anti-theists are becoming just as irritating as religious fundamentalists.
Tough. After two thousand years of this crap it’s about time.
But when a professor in a university setting makes fun of the world’s largest Christian denomination thus offending 1 billion believers the left rushes to this fools defense.
Right. I’m sure all 1 billion Catholics are readers of PZ’s blog.
“The fact is” no one would even have known about it if Donahue hadn’t overreacted.
your own response to someone’s differing belief is public mockery.
Some beliefs are just asking for it.
The left is hypocritical to the extreme. Remember those hilarious Danish cartoons of the “Prophet” Mohammed two years ago. You leftys were completely outraged that anyone would dare to mock the sainted “religion of peace.”
But when someone does the same to Christianity you come to the ignorant fools defense in droves. Despite the Crusades which were a defensive war by the way, Islam has murdered more innocent people than any other religion in history.
Religion of peace, wanna bet your lives on it?
You leftys were completely outraged that anyone would dare to mock the sainted “religion of peace.”
Wrong. No one on the left gave a damn. Find one citation.
The right, of course, was gleeful that Muslims overreacted to them, because it gave them a chance to say “see how those people are?”
Imagine if a conservative professor or student made similar remarks about an Islamic ritual?
You liberals would be like King Herod’s lover asking for the head of John the Baptist.
Until the universities clean up their anti-Christian, anti-American leftwing bias they will no longer be taken seriously as anything other than communist style reducation camps.
Bill Donahue and the Catholic League are right folks, Christians are the only group that it is ok to make fun of.
Maybe they should stop providing so much material.
g, Ever watch Hannity & Colmes? Did you see the liberal Alan Colmes reaction?
His over emotional reaction was the same taken or at least felt by most liberals. All the governments of Europe condemned those cartoons, even as the forces of Islam (their declared enemy) was waging a proxy war against those said European nations and their traditional cultures.
when sally quinn disrespected the eucharist at tim russert’s funeral service, the most donahue could come up with was “that wasn’t nice.” quinn “blogs” about religion yet went to a catholic funeral service and thought it would be “fun” to “try out” holy communion. donahue and the catholic league did not call for her to be fired or lose her “privileges” at the newsweek/washington post blog “on faith.” they didn’t even ask for an apology,
the reaction to the “theft” of this particular eucharist wafer, in contrast, is a tad overwrought — guards posted at the doors and death threats against the “thief” and, subsequently, against pz myers for his satirical takedown of the claims that the act is a hate crime and the perpetrator must be destroyed.
for people who so thoroughly believe in an all-powerful and all-knowing god, they demonstrate very little faith that he/she/it can handle blasphemers. given all the truly grim and nasty stuff that people do to one another every day of the week, and twice on sundays, frequently “in god’s name,” the hyperventilation over the theft of a bit of cooked flour and water seems … well, silly.
another lost opportunity for the offended to turn the other cheek and use the this as a teaching moment about the meaning of the eucharist. instead they get out the rocks and sticks, and when challenged on use of those rocks and sticks, they then have the audacity to escalate their initial less-than-charitable response.
my respect for catholics is diminished by their thoughtless and destructive speech and actions. to advocate the murder of others because they point out your vacuity brings to mind the old adage: “sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me.”
too bad bill donahue and his band of flying monkeys are unable or unwilling to incorporate that simple but important concept into their repertoire.
“NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!”
yeah, but we’ve all come to expect bill donahue and the catholic league..
Erik, God and Jesus do not exist.
It’s a question of respect.
We should all make a good faith effort (heh heh) to get along.
I don’t think it’s right to either wrap the Koran in bacon or threaten to desecrate a wafer, but I’m not under constant attack from these people, the way Myers is. They, too, constantly attack and belittle biology, the foundations of his beliefs.
Donahue is the one who has to be stopped. And I think it’s the Church (who he supposedly speaks for) who has the authority to stop him.
And why don’t they?
They are fairy tales.
Donahue is the Catholic Church’s Michelle Malkin.
Thats funny owlbear, because I don’t believe in athiests.
Why is it that said “athiest” will take the Lord’s Name in vain or show anger towards God when they supposedly don’t believe He exists?
Because in the hearts of all men is the knowledge of the existance of God and those who claim to be athiests are simply those who are “gods” in there own eyes and to stubborn and prideful to admit they need God and Christ in their lives.
Pride cometh before the fall, my friend.
Because religion is a personal choice – and you’d have no moral authority to slam the proselytizers for their efforts at trying to “spread the word” when your own response to someone’s differing belief is public mockery.
I’m donning my serious hat for a minute. Organized religion is indeed a personal choice but that doesn’t make it sacred. Da Catlik Choich is one of the most egregious offenders but all organized religion is bad for humanity. It’s bad for us because at it’s core it promuylgates absolutely stoopid thinking and stoopid behavior. Magic is real, superstition is more important than science, and so on.
Fuck that moral authority crap. It’s the churchers that have claimed moral authority since forever and used that ridiculopus claim to kill people, oppress people, ensalve epople, molest children and gtenerally fuck things up at every turn.
And fuck you for falling for it. If you’re not against it then your an enabler. Noit only do you deserve mockery, I’m itching to slap you and your type upside your vacuous little haids.
obligatory ℙ●●ℙ
Bill Donahue and the Catholic League are right folks, Christians are the only group that it is ok to make fun of.
No, no, no. Making fun of Creed is perfectly fine and Yankee fans as a group regularly get the mocking they deserve too.
Good point by karen marie in re Sally Quinn.
What about Giuliani? He took the wafer, publicly, during a visit of the Pope himself? As a divorced, (procedural) apostate, that’s just as much of a no-no for him to do that.
Yet, he gets a pass, while John Kerry was threatened with denial of the Sacrament because he made some pro-choice votes.
Yes, friends, the Catholic Church is a political institution, and picks its enemies and fights with less regard for the next world than for this one. His Holiness may no longer command divisions, but he was able to replace my congressman (the late Fr. Robert F. X. Drinan, SJ) on command.
Erik, it was not Herod’s lover who did that. You seem to be a mite ignorant of the text you supposedly believe.
The left is hypocritical to the extreme. Remember those hilarious Danish cartoons of the “Prophet” Mohammed two years ago. You leftys were completely outraged that anyone would dare to mock the sainted “religion of peace.”
g, Ever watch Hannity & Colmes? Did you see the liberal Alan Colmes reaction?
That’s the best you can come up with? A fucking piece from Fox News? I don’t watch that trash, and the fact that you hold it up as some sort of credible source really tells me what kind of mind I’m arguing with.
If you go back and do some research, which you won’t, you might note that Myers laughed at the Muslims then just as hard as he’s laughing at the Christians now.
Since we’re tarring all “leftys” with the same brush here, let’s turn it around. All you “righties” were saying that those cartoons meant nothing, and the Muslims were frothing at the mouth simply because they hate our precious, precious freedom of expression. But now when someone takes a swing at Catholics, you seek to suppress it by accusing us “leftys” of having a double-standard. Strawmen are great, aren’t they? And so useful for burning heretics.
How come people will say “gadzooks” even if they don’t believe in Zeus? Or “by jiminy” when they don’t worship Castor and Pollux? IT IS A MYSTERY.
hey, eric pontoppidan, it seems you’re following the thread to see if your comments get a reaction.
here’s one for you: why don’t you actually read the original pharyngula post and the background materials. the post was ridiculing the hyperbole, hyperventilation and death threats against a person who “improperly disposed of” a eucharist wafer. it was not, as you apparently misapprehend, a post about the absurdity of transubstantiation.
try to preserve what little reputation you have for being a form of “intelligent life” and make sure you understand issues you are commenting on.
you would also be well advised to unbind your panties (i think pulling them over your head like that may have a detrimental effect on your cognitive abilities) long enough to do some reading on the subject of middle eastern and moslem history before you make further remarks about “the forces of Islam (their declared enemy) … waging a proxy war against those said European nations and their traditional cultures.”
Erik, before I continue I should let you know that by responding to my post you have agreed to pay my $2000 “life consultant” fee. If you wish to continue our discussion you must agree to pay me an ADDITIONAL $5000.
If you choose not to continue that is your choice and you will only be billed for the original $2000.
Troll Eric: Why is it that said “athiest” will take the Lord’s Name in vain or show anger towards God when they supposedly don’t believe He exists?
Because shouting “Poopie!” or “Dagnabbit!” when you stub your toe or Vinnie throws an interception isn’t nearly as satisfying. Really, it’s that simple.
Because in the hearts of all
menchildren is theknowledgepropaganda of the existance of God and those who claim to be athiests are simply those who are “gods” in there own eyes and to stubborn and prideful to admit they need God and Christ in their lives.Fixed.
Oh, and I know you don’t believe in us, but could you at least have the courtesy to spell it right: atheist, not athiest. “Dawkins is ok, but PZ is the athiest!”
Ever watch Hannity & Colmes? Did you see the liberal Alan Colmes reaction?
His over emotional reaction was the same taken or at least felt by most liberals.
Ah, there we have the awesome deductive reasoning power of the troll-mind! The reaction of one person on TV = the feelings of an entire cadre of unrelated people who may or may not even know what the subject of such reaction is.
And I a quite amused at the characterisation of Colmes’ “over emotional” reaction, in his appearance on a show intended to dramatize conflict between two opposing views. I assume Trollypants finds Colmes to be in stark contrast to the calm, cool, objective and always factual affect of his counterpart, Sean Hannity?
Despite the Crusades which were a defensive war by the way, Islam has murdered more innocent people than any other religion in history.
That has more to do with Christian definitions of “innocent” than the number of persons “murdered” by “Islam”.
Call it “coding bias”.
Fixed.
Tigrismus, good point. She was Herod’s stepdaughter, and asked for John’s head on her mother’s behalf.
But we can’t expect religious scolds to actually read the book they want to cram down our throats, can we?
‘karen marie said,”
“do some reading on the subject of middle eastern and moslem history before you make further remarks about “the forces of Islam (their declared enemy) … waging a proxy war against those said European nations and their traditional cultures.”
I don’t have to, its so blatently obvious. Part of it I should add is the fault of leftwing European governments for allowing muslim immigration to their nations in the first place. However muslims are immigrating enmasse to the nations of Europe at an unprecedented pace, whats more they breed like rabbits. They are growing at a more rapid pace than their European hosts and are bringing their own cultures and religions along with them. In Germany for example a cowardly judge ruled that it is ok for a muslim immigrant man to beat his wife because it was acceptable behavior in his own country of origin.
Europeans need to grow a set and stand up for their homelands and traditional religion and culture and deport the muslim interlopers and prevent anymore of those barbarians from returning.
the Crusades which were a defensive war by the way
Yes, I’m sure. It must have been terrible for Londoners to know that Muslims were living in Acre.
Karen: “do some reading on the subject of middle eastern and moslem history…..”
Erik: “I don’t have to, its so blatantly obvious”
Comedy gold!
Susan of Texas said,
“Tigrismus, good point. She was Herod’s stepdaughter, and asked for John’s head on her mother’s behalf.”
You just proved my point Susan, instead of going into long detail about how Herod’s lover manipulated her daughter into asking for the head of John the Baptist, which would have been to much detail for your irreligious minds to handle. I thought I would get straight to the point and compare you leftys to Herod’s lover who was the one behind the whole villianous debacle.
I’m in ur reality, killin ur idolz?
If the goal was to be provocative and mocking and piss off devout Catholics, well done.
If the goal was to snap people out of their religious delusion, I doubt it worked. When your object lesson is someone else’s sacrilege, nobody is listening.
Dear Mr. Baggins,
You’re the athi-est.
Erik, thank you for your non-response.
If you desire anonymity please just give permission to one of the proprietors to forward your contact information to me and I will get that bill for $2000 in the mail.
Thank you for your business.
Wife, lover, what’s the difference, right Erik?
How come our non-detail-oriented, irreligious minds know these scriptural minutia and yours seems not to until someone has told you?
Maybe Erik is a secret atheist?
Nice try Eric. Too bad I can read.
I don’t believe in wingnuts.
Sure, they take wacky positions like love of torture, indefinite detention without due process and aggressive war and invasion, but they use words like “democracy” and “constitution” and “freedom”.
If they didn’t believe in them down in their souls…
Oh fuck it. It didn’t make sense when fuckwad said it, and it doesn’t make any more sense now…
mikey
Fixed!
SomeNYGuy, my Catholic ancestors resembled that remark!
Herod’s lover
WIFE, Erik. Wife.
Just stop, please. It hurts to watch this kind of thing.
Salome, Herodias – same diff.
According to John P. Meier’s A Marginal Jew, it was all understood to be fictional anyway. As Josephus confirmed, the people knew that John the Baptist was killed for political reasons, but some fun was had with casting Antipas and his wife as a latter day Ahab and Jezebel. Maybe future generations will actually believe that George Bush played a fiddle during Katrina. Can you imagine? George W. Bush laying off the booze long enough to learn an instrument?
owlbear, that rules.
after further digging into the origins of this overgrown behemoth, it turns out the kid didn’t “steal” the cracker!
from comment #42 in one of the comment threads on this over at pharyngula (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/internet_getting_full_heres_a.php):
“When I received the Eucharist, my intention was to bring it back to my seat to show him,” Cook said. “I took about three steps from the woman distributing the Eucharist and someone grabbed the inside of my elbow and blocked the path in front of me. At that point I put it in my mouth so they’d leave me alone and I went back to my seat and I removed it from my mouth.”
A church leader was watching, confronted Cook and tried to recover the sacred bread. Cook said she crossed the line and that’s why he brought it home with him.
“She came up behind me, grabbed my wrist with her right hand, with her left hand grabbed my fingers and was trying to pry them open to get the Eucharist out of my hand,” Cook said, adding she wouldn’t immediately take her hands off him despite several requests.
the only “hate” crimes here aare webster cook being physically assaulted IN CHURCH by his fellow churchgoers and then threatened with expulsion from school and with death.
.
Breeding like Catholics, eh? I’m the youngest of nine. My mother was Catholic. My father was an engineer. I don’t know whether that supports any stereotype, I’m just mentioning it.
karen marie:
You are speaking with the limited vision of one who does not know Christ. The Devil is crafty and can take many forms, including that of seemingly innocent children with soft skin and pretty red lips who make themselves sound completely innocent. He is an expert at using the so-called “facts” to humiliate the righteous and try to push them from God’s path.
Satan will do anything to destroy the Church. PZ Myers and other anti-Christian bigots are the tools he uses to keep people away from Christ so they can burn in hell forever. Which is crueler, a restraining hand or an eternity in the lake of fire?
Dear sweet Jeebus.
Erik Pontoppidan is even wronger than me.
The Devil is crafty and can take many forms, including that of seemingly innocent children with soft skin and pretty red lips who make themselves sound completely innocent.
That court case didn’t turn out too well, did it Eric? And now you can’t go within 50 feet of a school or day care center. Poor thing.
Procedure:
1. Grind body of Jesus into a powdery paste whilst incubating at ~34 degreees C.
2. To this paste, add a master mix of hydrolytic enzymes that will tear its very molecules asunder (“spit”).
3. Add to this mixture approx. 2 volumes of Jesus’s blood (if you are a priest, add larger quantities of blood).
4. Take the degrading jesus-paste and pass it into reaction vessel containing strong acid to be further torn apart. Add additional hydrolytic enzymes. Incubate with agitation at 37 degrees C.
5. Pass the resulting Jesus-slurry into an alkaline chamber to be further degraded and partially extracted. Incubate Jesus-slurry (again, at 37 degrees C) with fecal coliform bacteria and other bacteria, to be transformed (transubstantiated) if you prefer – into human fecal matter.
6. Extrude Jesus-based fecal matter through rectal sphincter.
7. Collect and freeze at -20 degrees C for further use, or discard into municipal sewer system.
Notes:
a. This Procedure is Good.
b. Failure to follow this Procedure is really, really, Bad.
c. Remember to wear a laboratory coat and proper eye protection.
d. Wash hands with warm soapy water prior to step 1, and after steps 6 and 7.
That court case didn’t turn out too well, did it Eric? And now you can’t go within 50 feet of a school or day care center. Poor thing.
I choked on my iced tea.
That was good.
I’m sure that things would never have gotten this far if Erik had been there.
He knows how to force a youth’s mouth open.
She was Herod’s stepdaughter
Wait a minute. Herod was fucking his stepdaughter?!?
The Devil is crafty and can take many forms, including that of seemingly innocent children with soft skin and pretty red lips who make themselves sound completely innocent. Also butt cheeks.
Troll Eric: Why is it that said “athiest” will take the Lord’s Name in vain or show anger towards God when they supposedly don’t believe He exists?
Because it pisses off the goddammed christians, duh.
Curiosity satisfied!
Erik, you’re looking for NAMBLA. This is SADLYNO. It’s not even the same number of letters. Please go where you belong.
Jesus Christ, sagra, why in the name of the Good Lord Above would you want to piss off the Goddamned Christians!
I mean Jesus, Mary, and Joseph! It just makes me so mad! Christ Almighty!
Myers is a jerk, but Donohue is a world-class asshole.
What is this Erik person doing on this website? Half the time he seems to be auditioning for The Daily Show as the resident religious explainer.
Erik, not only does god not exist, neither does the devil.
Don’t sweat it pat. Erik doesn’t exist either.
I don’t think it’s right to either wrap the Koran in bacon or threaten to desecrate a wafer
I’m going to lean in a ninnyish direction here and say that there is a difference in propriety between burning a book and burning a cracker. One’s a container of ideas no matter what, whereas the cracker would be solely a cracker were it not for Vatican Voodoo.
I’m pretty squeamish about book-burning. Confronted with my own truckload of Liberal Fascism I am not sure what I would do.
Erik doesn’t exist either.
He has risen from the dead to save us all.
Bubba is always Righteous, but in this case only half right.
Books are indeed repositories of ideas, of thoughts, of history and hope, ingenuity and innovation, and should certainly be treated respectfully, promoted and propagated, never constrained, censored or destroyed out of fear of their contents.
However, while it is a mighty and important role that books play, it is when humans elevate the book itself to the level of sacred text that it becomes silly and the respect can rightfully cease.
It’s just a book. Some wood pulp and ink. It is the ideas contained in the words inside that have value – the book is the same as a stone or a shoe or some algae. When the book itself is sacred, when it’s not the repression of the ideas and opinions it represents, but but the book ITSELF can be “desecrated”, that’s when you’ve gone from thoughtful protector of the freedom of thought to a slave to superstition…
mikey
When the book itself is sacred, when it’s not the repression of the ideas and opinions it represents, but but the book ITSELF can be “desecrated”, that’s when you’ve gone from thoughtful protector of the freedom of thought to a slave to superstition…
That seems reasonable to me, especially given the fact that there are so many Bibles and Korans around that pooping on one would make no difference whatsover.
Nevertheless I have a number of these and I’m pooping on precisely none, nor would I even for show, although I know everyone wants to see me in hot poop action. Flag-burning, yes, constitution-burning, no. As I said I’m kind of a ninny about it. You should see the oodles of pure nonsense on my bookshelves that I can’t part with.
Whatsoever. Type me no kant.
The funny thing I think is that the cracker factory was on tv last week on ‘Modern Marvels: Bread’
When the book itself is sacred, when it’s not the repression of the ideas and opinions it represents, but but the book ITSELF can be “desecrated”, that’s when you’ve gone from thoughtful protector of the freedom of thought to a slave to superstition…
One more because I like haggling about this shit: it’s difficult to pee all over the sacred part of the book without also hitting the text.
These internet traditions would have been to much detail for your irreligious minds to handle.
Fixed. The typo in the original makes it perfect.
In an orthodox church you’re supposed to not touch the cracker, but in many churches you can take it back to your seat before you partake of it. It’s not like he gave it to his friend (which is still not defiling the cookie) or whatnot.
In an orthodox church you’re supposed to not touch the cracker, but in many churches you can take it back to your seat before you partake of it.
Maybe you could take it to the cemetary.
AND I STILL CAN’T TYPE!!!
it’s difficult to pee all over the sacred part of the book without also hitting the text.
Seems to me you’d have to use sacred pee, which poureth from the end of a consecrated wang…
mikey
*waves over his wang*
“… and this is my flesh. Do this in remembrance of me.”
mikey: Do you consecrate a wang by dipping it into holy water? Because I have a feeling that’d be a handy trait in case you were tangling with a succubus.
Does it have to be full-immersion? Because the church I’d get it from is Episcopalian, and they just sprinkle. For that matter, does it matter which denomination you get the holy water from? Would it work even better if I dipped a wafer into some holy water as well as my wang?
Enquiring dongs want to know.
Seems to me you’d have to use sacred pee, which poureth from the end of a consecrated wang…
Sin of emission.
…that’d be a handy trait in case you were tangling with a succubus.
Only after you’ve gotten tired.
Um, actually, I think you have to dip your wang into a priest.
But the upside is there are plenty of volunteers…
mikey
Q – How do you separate a priest from a boy?
A – With a crowbar.
Or as my mom used to say, with some cold water and a broom…
mikey
You know, I figure if you stole some consecrated wafers and held them Hostage, and the Church recovered them and — here’s the thing — they could tell if they were consecrated or just the sort you can buy from the communion wafer bakery* then they could claim James Randi’s million dollar prize and I would probably go back to church.
* Actually they are baked by an order of midget nuns who live in a big hollow tree.
Oh yeah, also this is sort of interesting — in Europe in the Middle Ages, one of the many things Jews were accused of doing was:
1) steal consecrated hosts
2) stab, burn, or nail to a board said hosts (thus re-crucifying Jesus! just like before!)
3) profit! or, use the blood that comes out (!) as a cosmetic.
Why exactly it was thought that Jews would believe in transubstantiation but not in the divinity of Christ is not clear, and it’s all sort of funny except of course that, you know, Jews would be tortured into confessing they did that stuff and then there’d be a pogrom.
Y’know, the whole transubstantiation thing is actually a really subtle and far-out concept — the belief is that the substance of the bread is actually changed, while all the accidents remain the same. The terms are Aristotle’s but used by Aquinas to talk about transubstantiation. It’s pretty interesting, and I think also Aquinas was, unlike Donohue, not a huge douche.
For example, I couldn’t picture St. Thomas Aquinas saying something like: “Why didn’t you just smack the clergyman in the face? After all, most 15-year-old teenage boys wouldn’t allow themselves to be molested. So why did you?”
I don’t know what prompts me to tell this tale, but I seem to be goaded by the discussion here.
I was raised an Episcopalian, but as a teenager I went to church only because I sang (or “sang”) in the choir. When I went away to college, I completely got out of the habit, and for years I did not darken the doors of a church. When I moved back to my home town, I occasionally attended my old Episcopalian church on Easter and Christmas, until I consciously realized it meant nothing to me.
Another decade or two passed, and I got interested in music again(flute), and was asked by a fellow flutist to help out in her handbell choir at her Presbyterian church. So I sat through a goodly number of church services, more or less following along in the bulletin…. Then, one day, a lay preacher gave a sermon in which he proclaimed, verbatim..” The virgin birth is a historical fact.”
Well, as a scientist, I had to admit to myself that this so-called “historical fact” is a biological impossibility. I finally had to face my hither-to unacknowledged bent toward atheism, and today I will not ever profess a belief in god. Jesus might be a person who actually lived, and obviously inspired “one of the great religions.” But a virgin birth, a literal acsension into heaven, a real GOD?? I think not.
The question I still have is whether my friends, most of whom are dedicated church-goers, have ever asked themselves, is it possible that all these things in the Bible REALLY happened? Or do they kind of give a little lip service, and never think too deeply about it because they want to BELONG to this group who sits in church with them every Sunday?
Sorry to be long-winded, and I hope not too much off topic.
Back on-topic, I think Myers was pretty offensive. Imagine he had threatened to pee on some rival football team’s jersey. But the reaction of Donohue and his crazies is totally bizarre. Death threats? Good lord, what has the Christian faith come to?
This Is Just to Say
I have eaten
the Hosts
that were in
the tabernacle
and which
you were probably
saving
for Communion
Forgive me
they were sacrelicious
so flat
and so bland
If you have the right to be an asshole, and choose to be an asshole, you are perfectly within your rights. And still an asshole.
Myers is still an asshole.
Back on-topic, I think Myers was pretty offensive. Imagine he had threatened to pee on some rival football team’s jersey.
I think everyone here agrees that getting angry about sports is completely cuckoo.
Myers is still an asshole.
Um, no.
Fuck you, thanks for playing.
PJ is a voice of reason in an increasingly stoopid world.
He writes on a blog. If you don’t wanna hear it, don’t read it.
If he came in your house and shit on ur messiah, fine. That would make him an asshole.
If you go to his house, you don’t like what’s doing there, and you go back anyway? And get offended?
Here’s a hint. Somebody’s NOT and asshole. And somebody else is an idiot. Try and figure out who’s who, ok?
mikey
Hey Mikey, fuck you back. In half, no less. Writing on your own blog makes you not an asshole? Somebody let the Powerline boys know. I’m sure they’ll be ecstatic.
No, Myers really is being an asshole here. What’s more he’s trying to be an asshole, and he would be upset if the “right” people failed to regard him as such. (If you respect him as much as you seem to, you really ought to acknowledge his success in this effort.) Repeatedly referring to people getting all upset about a cracker, when he knows perfectly well that it’s not just a piece of bread but something sacred to them, makes him an asshole.
I mean, your mom may be a filthy whore, but to you she’s your mom. And me calling her a filthy whore to your face would make me an asshole, regardless of her status as a filthy whore.
Also, Donahue is a douchebag, the guy who took the communion wafer doesn’t deserve threats of violence, and Myers doesn’t deserve anything worse than some mean words in a blog comment buried 200 deep. I wouldn’t think that needed to be stipulated, but I don’t want anybody to confuse my tepid defense of religion with some sort of BLOODTHIRSTY CHRISTER FURY.
That I twice mistyped my own fake name totally invalidates whatever point I was making. I fail at arguing on the internets.
Repeatedly referring to people getting all upset about a cracker, when he knows perfectly well that it’s not just a piece of bread but something sacred to them, makes him an asshole.
Flag-burning: asshole move?
I’d be impressed if he had the balls to offend Muslims this way.
Tumbleweeds
Thought so.
It wasn’t a personal choice for thousands of heretics burned at the stake by a powerful religion. It’s not a personal choice for the individuals involved when practitioners of said religion dedicate themselves to terrorizing huge swaths of the undeveloped world into believing they’ll burn in hell if they don’t seek entry into heaven the “one true way.”
So mocking all people of faith because, a) their ancestors committed atrocities; and, b) there are members of faith communities who commit atrocities now – that’s okay, because…um…well…apparently, the majority can be condemned for the crimes of their forebears or for the deeds of other people who share their core beliefs. Yeah – that’s the ticket!
Tough. After two thousand years of this crap it’s about time.
Two wrongs = right? I don’t recall learning that in Logic 101.
I’m donning my serious hat for a minute. Organized religion is indeed a personal choice but that doesn’t make it sacred.
It’s no more sacred than any other choice. It seems to me, however, that people should respect one another as far as they’re able before busting out with the harsh criticisms.
And fuck you for falling for it. If you’re not against it then your an enabler.
Fuck you and your “if you’re not for us, you’re against us” rhetoric. There’s only one right position, of course, and you’re the one who has it.
You’re no better than the people you mock, you absolutist hypocrite.
Of course it’s good clean fun to mock faiths. Astrology? Homeopathy? Transubstantiation? Ghosts, leprechauns, fairies? All utterly risible.
People in general we have to respect. With individuals, it varies, although we should certainly greet anyone with respect on the first meeting, and only withold respect thereafter in the case of actual misbehavior.
But their beliefs are fair game. I don’t have to respect delusion. I don’t have to respect anyone who supported the invasion of Iraq, nor anyone who holds holy the chip I wanted to dip into the hummus, the salsa or the guacamole.
Fuck these outraged catholics. Just like I said fuck the outraged muslims over the dutch cartoons flap.
Now we can put ‘cracks about crackers’ along with ‘unfunny editorial funnies’ in the scrapbook of stupid shit that dark age morons can go off on a tizzy about and demonstrate for one and all how backward and foolish they are.
Didn’t anybody ever tells these volatile gasbags about ‘sticks and stones’?
I say mock and provoke whenever ‘the luls’ may result, because the inevitable over-reaction just lets religious loonies self-identifiy as wackjobs out of step with the modern world. Hopefully people who still want to hold onto some ‘spirituality’ in a less rediculous fashion are mature enough not to cry everytime somebody makes a joke at their expense.
You can go ahead and believe whatever you want about anything you can imagine, but nothing will protect you from criticism and mockery – and if a little ribbing is enough to put your world in crisis, perhaps you should re-evaluate what you’ve chosen to believe in.
Also, just for the laugh, the Canadian-baptist-convention church I was dragged to until I was 14 used broken up Nabisco saltines and putrid grape juice.
You’d eventually get a sliver of stale cracker, which would sit like cardpaper on your tounge, finishing the job of drying your mouth out like a well preserved Egyptian mummy that the climate control had started. Then it was time to glug the least refreshing 1/4 shot of from-concentrate grape juice, which rather than wet one’s whistle, just added a bad after-taste to the dryness.
I’m not clear why a protestant church did a monthly communion, but I am certain it was the longest, and most dreaded wasted Sunday of the month.
Fonder memories of slipping out to the car to listen to “Psychedelic Sunday” on Q107 instead – I didn’t have to do that too many times before my attendance was no longer compulsorily. The pastor had nothing on Andy Frost’s playlist, speckled as it was with ads for Toronto headshops and hydro products. So classic.
1) Danish cartoons, not Dutch
2) Grape juice isn’t wine; that’s not really communion, as I understand it (which I’m sure I don’t; my fondest memory of what little Bible school I had was of coconut-pineapple juice)
3) George Washington was notorious for leaving church just before the communion ceremony, along with most of the rest of the crowd.
1) My bad, its past 4am here and I probably shouldn’t be typing.
2) I know. Thats where it gets funny, a big room full of wanna-be southern baptists in Ontario, too uptight to drink alcohol at all – even for communion – and too lazy to make some unleavened bread or whatever catholics consider proper, but instead breaking up a box of saltines.
3) Well, depending on what stories about the founding fathers you ‘put faith’ into, they were some groovy cats, no doubt. Ah, but did they go to the car and listen to “Sweet Leaf” and Arthur Brown’s “Fire” (two songs which seemed to be Psych Sunday standards at the time). 😛
arg, see what I mean about not typing when dawn is fast approaching? I think it makes enough sense that I don’t have to re-type it, but I just wanted to acknowldge my failure to arrange properly formatted sentences and correctly spelled words before anybody else pointed it out 😉
I’m thinking ‘burned Dutch embassy’ not Dutch cartoons. Wires crossed in my head.
[…] I’m writing — as any number of blogs have urged that I do — to ask you not to take disciplinary action against Prof. Myers, or […]
Two wrongs, dont’ make a right? I see one wrong, and me mocking it. If you think it’s wrong to mock religion, don’t. I have a different opinion, and the cool thing is that you can give them all the deference you want and I don’t have to. I’m not going to sit and let them tell me how to live just because they believe in a magic spell book.
…my fondest memory of what little Bible school I had was of coconut-pineapple juice)
Yum! Jeeza Colada!
Grape juice isn’t wine; that’s not really communion, as I understand it
Wait, are you saying that a Baptist preacher can’t summon enough Holy Jesus magic to turn grape juice into blood and thereby fulfill his cannibalistic yearnings in non-alcoholic form? That sounds like blasphemy to me. I CAST THEE OUT!
You know, somebody could probably make some money marketing a non-alcoholic “wine” that’s sanctified for changing into zombie savior-blood for any and all pseudo-cannibalistic fantasy superstition rituals. Call it, what? “O’Ghouls?” Or is that too blatant?
Call it, what? “O’Ghouls?” Or is that too blatant?
It’s brilliant.
Of course, one could simply claim that the wafer isn’t actually god because none of the priests have been properly consecrated to do the trick. Ask any of the followers of Pope Pius XIII (http://www.truecatholic.us/) and there are probably several of them.