Frist!

Disconcerted, I tried to persuade Havel that the counterculture in the West was no friend of anti-Communists like himself, but I made even less of a “dent” on him than Ginsberg had made on me thirty years earlier.

“Vaclav, I know you’ve actually LIVED under Communism, but I’ve made a living telling people to kill, die and give up their freedom because of how horrible Communism is. Who are you going to trust? Me or your lying eyes and ears?”

1. People who think your entertainment preferences must exactly match your ideals are The Biggest Dorks Evar. Podperson clearly missed out on the fact that the evil dirty Ruskies were no fans of Lennon or Ginsberg.

2. Many of my ancestors were in situ when funny looking pale people started showing up. The rest were here before the King George got a message that read “IM N UR KOLONEEZ, SPILLIN UR T.”

Mr. Stephens will kindly get the fuck off my lawn.

…that smacks too much of the professed beliefs of the ex-Beatle’s near namesake, Vladimir Ilyich.

Whuh?

without making any real effort to integrate Muslims into a genuine European identity that means something more than the absence of identity
But wait, I thought European identity was no identity at all…

It has always struck me as odd that so many of the dissidents in Czechoslovakia, all of whom were passionate anti-Communists
Not that it matters, but that’s bullshit. Many people hanging around Havel in the 80’s were ex-communists thrown out by the Party in the purges of the 70’s. They were still the same communists as in the 60’s, only now without any power whatsoever. And don’t get me started about Havel, who now espouses same neocon beliefs as Podhoretz.

The EU has deliberately set about trying to smother the identities of its 27 member states (including Lithuania) in a set of common laws, common regulations,
Yeah, cause that couldn’t have any practical reasons whatsoever.

a common view of the rest of the world.
Which is why all the EU countries, including UK, Poland and Slovakia spoke against the Iraq War and refused to send in their troops. Or not.

…that smacks too much of the professed beliefs of the ex-Beatle’s near namesake, Vladimir Ilyich.

Whuh?

Lenon – Lenin. Get it? It’s supposed to be teh funny.

I found “Imagine” to be sophomoric and cringe-inducing, but not communistic! Wasn’t Lennon *rich*? If he gave to charity he kept it quiet (good idea or one is deluged with pleas for money). Of course there was “Back in the USSR!”. but I think that was McCartney trying to do a Beach Boys type song.

No hating on Havel. I won’t allow it.

So taking this at face value,
“As to the Palestinians, who are the descendants of those Arabs who migrated in the last 200 years, they have the right, if they want, to have their own state… but not at the expense of the state of Israel”

We may also assume as to those Americans who are the descendants of those Europeans who migrated in the last 300 years they have the right, if they want, to have their own state……but not at the expense of the Native Americans. Does this mean the neocons will pack up and leave or will at least move to reservations so the true owners of the land can again claim their own, After all, their claim to America is more immediate than that of the Jews to Israel.

For Havel bashing he really should have gone with Zappa, not Lennon,

OT, but worth snarking – Teh National Conglomeration of Former Hillary Clinton Supporters Who Now Think That John McCain is teh Awesomest!!!11!

(with [blink] enabled)

Didn’t we already learn this lesson in a very special episode of WKRP in Cincinnati?

OT, but worth snarking –

Is that site for real, or just some hyper-meta-ironic attempt to corral all the Operation Chaos idjits away from normal people?

A few years ago I played “Imagine” for my mother for the first time. She has been in the fundie compound since before it came out, so she wasn’t familiar with it.

“But…” she said, her mouth agape, “then there would be nothing left!“

I remember being so turned off by Sharanky’s bizarrely uneven and dishonest crapfest of a book that I quit reading forever (a few weeks).

After finding out Dubya loved it —“Read it to me again, Condi!”— I took many, many showers but haven’t felt completely clean since.

Also, “Imagine” is hacky, maudlin pap. It’s the kind of shit I wrote at 13 and was embarassed over at 15.

Daily conservative cognative dissonance check:

Muslim headscarves in European Union regions: Dangerous, non-integrated sub-cultures given to violent tendancies, will probably attempt to form seperate state and withdraw from union.

Confederate flag iconography in southern United States: indicators of pride in tradition, heritage, history & culture.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

Also, “Imagine” is hacky, maudlin pap.

Its primary function is as an argument against drug use.

RodeoBob,

Nicely said.

As for this “identity” stuff, I find that there are “metacultures” in the EU, and in American, cultures that transcend more narrow-minded perspectives.

But some people choose not to join them.

Is that site for real

My own bet in the office pool says ‘real.’

“Imagine” has always bugged Rabid Weasels. The no gawd, no nations part, sappy, maudlin & 13-yr.-old as it may (or may not) be, irritated local (Southern California) telebision dipstick Wally George (he must be on YouTube somewhere, look ‘im up) who almost invented contemporary RW hate radio (except on the telebision) in the early ’80s.

My own bet in the office pool says ‘real.’

I wouldn’t argue with that, but damned if I can tell the difference. In either case, maybe it will have the effect of occupying the ratfuckers, which I would welcome.

So he’s actually arguing that there’s no such thing as a greater European identity? Am I missing something? I submit that there is and *ahem* “American Identity” is merely a subset of it.

“Meanwhile, frank discussions of the identity issue are pushed to the neo-fascistic fringe.”

Lemme guess. Their idea of a “frank discussion” of identity issues is comprised primarily of running around yelling “RAG HEAD!!!!” at anyone with olive-toned skin, and whining about being “oppressed” when sensible people accuse them of being assholes?

What’s the over-under on that one?

Play “Imagine” back to back with “Femme Fatale” by the Velvet Underground sometime. Same key, same melody, same tempo.

O.K., can I complain about R.E.O. Speedwagon now?

… I made even less of a “dent” on him than Ginsberg had made on me thirty years earlier.

Didn’t know that Ginsberg ever hit on Podhoretz. Indeed, I assumed he had better taste than that. So, were they both so drunk that Alan “dented” Norman’s ass?

Sajudis, really? Lennon? What’s the dateline on this thing?
June 10, 2008?!?!?!?!

Fuck. What was that about the wingnuts being trapped in some time loop of the sixties? Well except for occasional breakouts of Reagan years.

Yeah Lithuanian independence movement! Hooray Sajudis! So, what are they up to today? Sitting on the sidelines while the communists run the government. You go Sajudis, one of the most consequential national liberation movements of the 20th century. Don’t get me wrong, winning national independence is indeed a big thing, but the fucking year is 2008.

It’s almost as good an argument as when people say that since Isaac Newton believed in spirits and alchemy, the belief in magic is scientific.

So, Stephens is bullish on multiculturalism. Who knew?

Not to mention bullish on liberalism:

Within weeks, 100,000 Sajudis activists took to the streets to demand greater liberalization.

It’s apparently only in the U.S. where identity and dissent need to be crushed.

O.K., can I complain about R.E.O. Speedwagon now?

The correct respons is, of course,

time to bring this ship into the shore
and throw away the oars
forever.

“Jews Native Americans came here 3,000 years ago and this is the cradle of Jewish Native American civilization. Jews Native Americans are the only people in history who kept their loyalty to their identity and their land throughout the 2,000 years of exile, and no doubt that they have the right to have their place among nations—not only historically but also geographically. As to the Palestinians “Americans”, who are the descendants of those Arabs Europeans who migrated in the last 200 years, they have the right, if they want, to have their own state… but not at the expense of the state of Israel. Native America.”

Fixed.

The reason people living under authoritarian regimes who don’t actually want to be living under authoritarian regimes tend to identify with artists like Lennon or Zappa or Ginsberg is because the latter are anti-authoritarian.

Seems kind of obvious.

Also seems pretty clear that somebody like Lennon or Zappa or Ginsberg would BE anti-authoritarian no matter which authoritarian system they lived under.

Whereas the same cannot be said for those in authority.

Dick Cheney for example. Had he been born and raised in a village in Burma, what would you imagine him doing right about now? Given his personality and his very “soul” whatever that might be?

Is Mr. Cheney one of the military rulers? Or a Buddhist monk?

Exactly.

Which is part of what people like Havel are responding to when they put a Lennon poster on the wall.

As for the song itself, that everybody — Right and Left — loves to mock. It has always seemed to me that “Imagine” — like every other literary utopian vision — deconstructs ITSELF by being so extreme and so IMPOSSIBLE to imagine. Not to mention the tinge of melancholy weariness I hear in his voice.

Not to mention bullish on liberalism

Also a pacifist:

We’ve also learned that not all cultures are created equal; that identities that make a fetish of masculine “honor,” for instance, don’t lend themselves easily to the practices of a free society.

Why doesn’t Bret Stephens Support the Troops?

It’s a pcompletely supportable argument. When you play the song backwards.

Well said, Imagine.

That Hillary site traces back to this guy. If IGoooogled it right.

Rush. I have a huge problem with Rush. Communists? Don’t know. Islamo Nazis? I doubt it. What matters is that Rush fucking sucks. Apologies to Neal Pert, who I believe posts here from time to time.

Rush does fucking suck, and I will apologize to no one about that opinion, not even Nick Andopolis.

Rush does fucking suck

Sure, but they’re one of those bands that prove that if you write enough songs one will be good. Spirit of Radio is GREAT.

As for the song itself, that everybody — Right and Left — loves to mock. It has always seemed to me that “Imagine” — like every other literary utopian vision — deconstructs ITSELF by being so extreme and so IMPOSSIBLE to imagine. Not to mention the tinge of melancholy weariness I hear in his voice.

Also, it sucks.

Really, it does. Pretty bad, in fact.

…that smacks too much of the professed beliefs of the Lennon Sisters’ near namesake, Vladimir Ilyich.

All better, no?

🙁

D.N. Nation said,

Also, “Imagine” is hacky, maudlin pap. It’s the kind of shit I wrote at 13 and was embarassed over at 15.

Which is why I prefer “Working Class Hero.” Now that’s a great motherfucking song.

“Working Class Hero” is easily Lennon’s worst song, a total embarrassment. “Imagine” might be ridiculous claptrap but at least it doesn’t shit all over his audience.

And you know what? Paul was the better Beatle.

Does anyone have a recording of Yoko Ono singing “Imagine”? I would like to play it. Really loud.

Rush had some interesting album covers…..

Also, “Imagine” is hacky, maudlin pap. It’s the kind of shit I wrote at 13 and was embarassed over at 15.

Oh yeah, look who was better than John Lennon when he was fifteen. Fifteen!

Just kidding, it is kind of infantile.

Obviously, Furious, you’re far too doped on religion and sex and TV to see the truth.

Spirit of Radio? Bah. Free Will speaks to the common man, or at least the common pre-teen japanese girl. Her voice is about three octaves lower than Geddy Lee’s.

Let me put it this way – wherever John Lennon went after he died, Woody Guthrie was there too, and Woody made him apologize profusely for “Working Class Hero” before he’d agree to join Lennon’s Donovan cover band.

Call my taste in music crappy if you will, but I still like “Imagine.”

And Ringo was obviously the best Beatle.

I’ve always sorta liked “Imagine” as a song for the very reasons the like-named poster above noted. It’s such a far-gone utopian vision, so impossible, that it brings itself right around to reality. Besides, if you can’t imagine a better world, why are we bothering trying to make one?

However, the documentary of the same name is a different story. It was pretty good, but John Lennon comes off as one of rock & roll’s biggest douchebags. Just a complete and total dick, full of his own awesomeness so he can treat everyone else like crap…up until his second kid was born, and he seemed to get over himself. ‘Course, most of us could stand to get over ourselves and Lennon definately had massive amounts of smoke blown up his ass for almost three decades, but it was interesting watching how the human being became a star and then back to a human again. And then got shot in the damn head by some dumb son of a bitch. What a world.

And you know what? Paul was the better Beatle.

And Bo Diddley was better than all four Beatles put together.

-Europe in which all non-Muslim tribalism is muted.-

Holy shit! They’re going to cancel Oktoberfest.

What no love for George?
Hare Hare
Krishna Krishna
something about Vishnu…

And Bo Diddley was better than all four Beatles put together.

Does that put Bo Diddly between Jesus and God or above God?

Paul was the better Beatle.

This should have been a masterful troll. Perhaps I am old.

Just a complete and total dick, full of his own awesomeness so he can treat everyone else like crap…

I am always impressed that more famous people aren’t completely out of their minds.

And you know what? Paul was the better Beatle.

I always like Harrison’s stuff. And Instant Karma is a pretty good song…I never liked Imagine.

This should have been a masterful troll. Perhaps I am old.

Paul?!?! Man what a jerk, let the library fall into Wack Jacko’s hands. And look at how he honors the memory of Linda, by taking a big fat dump on that other chippy, the one with the fake leg. Man, misogyny and disparagement of the handicapped. When I’m sixty-four I hope I have way more class than Paul.

PENIS

“…that’s a vision that smacks too much of the professed beliefs of the ex-Beatle’s near namesake, Vladimir Ilyich.”

Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov adopted the name Lenin. John Winston Lennon was born a Lennon, like his father and his father’s father and his father’s father’s father. How can he be called Lenin’s “near namesake”?

The answer, of course, is that Bret Stephens is a near moron.

Does that put Bo Diddly between Jesus and God or above God?

Above. I’ve met Bo, so I know he exists. That counts for an awful lot in my book.

I am always impressed that more famous people aren’t completely out of their minds.

My brother’s of the opinion that it isn’t your sanity that’s really a factor in how big a rock & roll douchebag you are, it’s how much you buy your own press. Once you start believing the jackasses that tell you what a genius you are between backstage beers/tokes/toots, it’s all over. He and I both have seen thus on a small scale here in the Classic City and I’ve seen evidence of it back when I was a music journalist (and no I won’t name names, as Google’s an unforgiving motherfucker), so I’m inclinded to think he’s got something.

I don’t know how it works for other types of famous folks, but I wouldn’t be too surprised if it wasn’t something similar at work.

Speaking of Donovan – was “Wear Your Love Like Heaven” a prescient ode to the impending Islamofascist hegemony?

That’s where you’re all confused. His name was really John Wayne Gacy Lennon Lenin Stalin Chairman Mao Idi Amin Lennon, which when translated into Russian is Vladimir.

Or existed, rather. Bless his heart.

And, for what it’s worth, Woody Guthrie sang about B-E-E-T-S, not B-E-A-T-S.

You owe me an apology. Bret Stephens killed John Lennon.

My brother was in a sort of a mid-level rock and roll band in the 70’s and early 80’s. Had a number of top 10 hits that people would obviously remember. My brother is still having a hard time getting over himself, even when he is getting close to 60. He kinda of pisses me off most every time I talk to him. Hey, glory days are long gone, bro. I can’t even imagine (notice how cleverly I worked that in, completely accidently) what the Beatles went through. Lennon did say they were bigger than God, right? That takes some balls to say that.

And you know what? Paul was the better Beatle.
Many true words were spoken here tonight. But these are undoubtedly the, um, truest.

Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I do not know what will go first, rock ‘n’ roll or Christianity. We’re more popular than Jesus now. Jesus was all right, but his disciples were thick and ordinary.

His name was really John Wayne Gacy Lennon Lenin Stalin Chairman Mao Idi Amin Robert Mugabe Lennon, which when translated into Russian is Vladimir.

Get with the times, man. Nobody cares about Idi Amin anymore. There can be only one liberal-approved blacky black dictator of Africa.

his disciples were thick and ordinary.

Fucking elitist.

Yeah, Imagine was kinda lame, but Lennon almost deserved to get shot for “Double Fantasy”. Jeebus! And “Rock ‘n’ Roll’ was pretty embarrassing, too.

My brother was in a sort of a mid-level rock and roll band in the 70’s and early 80’s. Had a number of top 10 hits that people would obviously remember.

This sounds like a challenge. Hints, the people need hints.

Is it bigger than a bread box?

Podperson clearly missed out on the fact that the evil dirty Ruskies were no fans of Lennon or Ginsberg.

Well, no, he mentions it, says he thought the commies were “stupid” not to recognize beatnik nonconformists etc as “de facto allies in the cold war.” Then he lambasted an ironmonger for using a hammer to repair a sickle and declared war on the color red.

Hai guyz! Been a while.

Well, I have some concerns about The Google as well Matt T., I think it was…. Don’t really think I would like bro to find out I had been talking about him, even anonymously.

http://www.firefa**.com/

Replace the astericks with two L’s

I liked John Lennon. I still like “Imagine”. And as soon as I get my mail order diploma from the Bela Lugosi White Zombie Voodoo Academy and Novelty Emporium, I will curse all of you Lennon-bashers to an eternity of all Creed, only Creed, all the time Creed. Are you scared yet?

Never heard of ’em. Ah, just as well. For the record, I was going to guess The Tubes.

A Bela Lugosi White Zombie reference! Hey, can you grow your eyebrows together like Bela?

Creed still sucks, but luckily, all their equipment is rusted out from playing while in a half filled swimming pool.

Yes, I remember Firefall from my wild mild teenage years. I’d rank them somewhere between England Dan & John Ford Coley and root canal.

I prefer Zeppo’s other brothers, the funny ones.

My brother’s of the opinion that it isn’t your sanity that’s really a factor in how big a rock & roll douchebag you are, it’s how much you buy your own press.

The press doesn’t have to be good though, it just has to affirm your station.

It might be smart to have Firefa** mention moderated somewhat for zeppo’s sake.

What do you think Bret Stephens’ real family name was — you know, before they decided their Eastern European “identity” wasn’t worth “defending”?

I wonder if that Creed thread is still alive. That said, White Zombie is miles better than Creed, in that White Zombie is actually good at all. I don’t recall any hot girls in Creed – unless you count Scott Stapp, who was not actually hot. Still isn’t. None of this this is central to my point, and none of it is very telling of anything at all.

Uh yeah, I agree with Nick Andopolis ….

Zeppo. You have my pity.

Gawdam, they sucked.

Soul-Crusher was a good record.

Wow… You guys are harsh. I actually think they rocked live. It’s the smarmy commerical stuff that got on radio.

But then again, there are people on this site who are actually debating the merits of Creed.

What do you think Bret Stephens’ real family name was…

John Wayne Gacy Lennon Lenin Stalin Chairman Mao Idi Amin Lennon?

Yeah. Dammit, if I had any talent whatsoever I’d have been in a famous band too.

As it is, I did once have a top ten toenail…

mikey

John Lennon couldn’t control which of his songs became “anthems”. All the ideas expressed in “Imagine” were laid out much better, and more explicitly, on his Plastic Ono Band album. In fact, he once described “Imagine”, in an angry letter to McCartney, as “Plastic Ono Band with sugar on it for conservatives like yourself!”.

Yeah. Dammit, if I had any talent whatsoever I’d have been in a famous band too.

Talent is not a requirement.

As it is, I did once have a top ten toenail…

Isn’t that what Brooke Shields (Catherine O’Hara) wanted to call Tip O’Neill (John Candy) on a classic SCTV episode?

The fact is, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan and I used the super-secret Canadian mind control device to murder John Lennon. Tin foil works, but not alumin(i)um.

wow, I never knew that vladamir was the russian version of John. either that, or someone doesn’t know what namesake means.

I feel really terrible for the Slavic left, such as it is. They were the ones who did the organizing and they were the ones who spent the longest time and had the most to lose struggling against Communism, and now they get to bounce from lecture to lecture by hacks like this about the Beatles being Bolsheviks.

It’s depressing. Like if it turned out the Obama campaign was a neocon trojan horse, and we had to deal with pious cod-Bushes forever.

But then again, there are people on this site who are actually debating the merits of Creed.

Proof that even lefties occasionally write poorly.

1. Debate? You call that debate?
2. Merits? Of Creed? Izzat some kind of inverse strawman yer trying to pull?

Yes yes, I’ll endeavour to be part of the solution:
Poopie poopy poop. Penis. Foreskin. Poop.

2. Merits? Of Creed?

Stapp it already.

My brother was in a sort of a mid-level rock and roll band in the 70’s and early 80’s.

Bread?
Air Supply?
REO Speedwagon?

Sorry, was that “mid-level” or “mediocre”?

It’s the “rock and roll” part that we should object to.

Firefall? Shit.

Now I’ve got:

“You are the woman that I’ve always dreamed of, I knew it from the start. I saw your face and that’s the last I’ve seen of my heart.”

stuck in my head.

And so do you.

Suckers!

“I’m with you on ‘Imagine’ — love the piano, hate the lyrics.”

Ponies are no picnic, either.

No seriously this isn’t funny. Why do I have note-for-note recall of a song I can’t possibly have heard in at least 20 years?

Get it out get it out get it out get it out!

What, over 100 posts and still no Yakoff Smirnoff?

In Soviet Union, country imagines world with no you!

I feel really terrible for the Slavic left, such as it is.

They have bigger things to worry about than whether the Beatles were Stalinists or Republicans or jingle writers. You think our rightwingers are bad…

And finally, has anyone else noticed that The Beatles are passing away in the same order as the greatness of their talent? (To wit: John first, George second.)

So we can assume that Ringo will live to a very ripe old age?

And finally, has anyone else noticed that The Beatles are passing away in the same order as the greatness of their talent?

Jesus fuck I AM old.

And finally, has anyone else noticed that The Beatles are passing away in the same order as the greatness of their talent?

So, if I understand your stance here, you’re saying their original drummer was in fact the greatest of them all?

They have bigger things to worry about than whether the Beatles were Stalinists or Republicans or jingle writers. You think our rightwingers are bad…

Well, yeah, but it’s not like the worst thing Bush does is pretend to be a fighter pilot with a huge package. The most annoying, yeah – just like the most annoying thing that families’ party did was try and elect Jesus King of Poland. But most of what they do is too horrifying to sneer at.

Pretending that Lennon was a Leninist may be one of the least evil things this guy has ever done. I bet he cannot go a day without snapping a puppy’s neck and fucking the limp cadaver. It’s not quite as easy to laugh at that, though.

…that smacks too much of the professed beliefs of the Lennon Sisters’ near namesake, Vladimir Ilyich.

I always suspected that Lawrence Welk was Stalin.

– – – – – – – – –

Nobody cares about Idi Amin anymore.

Not true. I still follow his teachings.

So, if I understand your stance here, you’re saying their original drummer was in fact the greatest of them all?

Pete Best is still alive. You’re thinking of Stu Sutcliffe, who played bass, poorly, and died before the band took off.

There are a lot of fifth Beatles.

His Excellency President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Snorghagen, Victorious Cross, Distinguished Service Order, Military Cross, Conqueror of the British Empire.

How batshit insane will these people be by October, when the electoral handwriting is so stark even K-Lo can’t misread it?

Yeah, the Beatles really kicked some ass in their day.

I really liked “Last Train to Clarksville”…

mikey

Hey zeppo, your brother’s band was the third concert I ever went to (first was Brownsville Station, second was Foghat). I thought they were great, but I was sixteen and stoned, so there’s that.

His Excellency President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Snorghagen, Victorious Cross, Distinguished Service Order, Military Cross, Conqueror of the British Empire.

You failed to mention Order of the Grand Wazoo, Webelos Badge, and Certified Public Nuisance.

Fuck all of you Imagine haters. You fundamentally don’t get it.

Imagine is a great and beautiful song. But it requires an innocence of spirit to appreciate that all too many arty poseurs either never had or lost a long time ago. It introduced ideas into mainstream American culture that rarely get any attention at all and certainly not in the numbers that Lennon’s song got. Growing up in a strict religious household it meant a helluva lot to me as a teenager to hear that someone who I liked a lot thought there might not be a heaven.

FYI: its not a treatise in political theory or theology, you stupid fucks.

For a peace loving people, we sure get into a lot of wars on other people’s turf.

What’s up with that, you think?

The Fool said,
June 12, 2008 at 1:32 (kill)
Fuck all of you Imagine haters. You fundamentally don’t get it.

…and once more…

The Fool said,
June 12, 2008 at 1:32 (kill)
Fuck all of you Imagine haters. You fundamentally don’t get it.

…and again.

The Fool said,
June 12, 2008 at 1:32 (kill)
Fuck all of you Imagine haters. You fundamentally don’t get it.

FYI: its not a treatise in political theory or theology, you stupid fucks.

Well, poop!

What’s with all the concern over the “fifth beetle?” Christ, VW sold 25 million of ’em. They were all pretty much alike.

In heaven, everyone’s always telling poop jokes.

And everyone’s always laughing, because they’re all funny.

we sure get into a lot of wars on other people’s turf.

Ah yes, those splendid little wars of old.

Not to mention the tinge of melancholy weariness I hear in his voice.

I blame Yoko.

Wow, and I always thought the reason that liberalism and the left was superior was its acceptance of anti-authoritarianism and being able to sympathize and imagine being in another’s place.

To think there’s a thread here of supposed lefties that can’t imagine a world without authoritarians and capitalism shows how strong the kool-aid really is.

Which is why I prefer “Working Class Hero.” Now that’s a great motherfucking song.

Yeah, it’s pretty good. Give a listen to “Gimme Some Truth” if you haven’t heard it in a while. Not only holds its own 27 years later but has acquired a nice patina.

And you know what? Paul was the better Beatle

Anyone else remember National Lampoon’s Radio Dinner parody of John Lennon?

Paul said he hated Yoko
Tell me why should Yoko have to take that kind of shit
Shit from those fuckin’ sons of bitches
George said she gave off evil vibes I shoulda beat the fuckin’ shit right outa him
Him and his fuckin’ Hare Krishna!

….him and that rubbish he’s been playin’!
He’s nothin’ but an animal! A fuckin’ stupid middle-class pig!
I won’t let fuckin’ animals like that near me!
Yoko is a supreme intellectual!
etc.

To think there’s a thread here of supposed lefties that can’t imagine a world without authoritarians and capitalism shows how strong the kool-aid really is.

Imagine that.

To think there’s a thread here of supposed lefties that can’t imagine a world without authoritarians and capitalism shows how strong the kool-aid really is.

I dranked me sum kewlaid, yep. Makes me infuckintolerant and killz my bemagination. I wuz a lefty but then I dranked it up. Now my only problem is, my skinz got so thin ya kin see ratcht tru me.

Anyone else remember National Lampoon’s Radio Dinner parody of John Lennon?

That was a real masterpiece. Somewhere I read that someone in LA played it for Lennon, who hadn’t heard about it. Lennon then left without saying a word.

Lennon did say they were bigger than God, right?

No, actually, he didn’t.

Lennon almost deserved to get shot for “Double Fantasy”.

Fuck you.

Meanwhile, (before I was so RUDELY interrupted):

Same as it ever was.

To counter the bad press back in America, General Otis stated that insurgents tortured American prisoners in “fiendish fashion”, some of whom were buried alive, or worse, up to their necks in anthills to be slowly devoured.
…
Sergeant Hallock testified in the Lodge Committee that natives were given the water cure, “…in order to secure information of the murder of Private O’Herne of Company I, who had been not only killed, but roasted and otherwise tortured before death ensued.”[73]

I got “Strange Way” stuck in my head.

To think there’s a thread here of supposed lefties that can’t imagine a world without authoritarians and capitalism shows how strong the kool-aid really is.

Not sure where you’re coming from with this.

Does my not liking the song mean I can’t imagine those things?

Fuck all of you Imagine haters… arty poseurs… you stupid fucks.

Ah, yes… there’s that old innocence of spirit.

The Fool was a bunch of Beatle hangers-on who painted up their limos all psychedelic and eventually helped drive the Apple Boutique into the ground.

I think it goes something like this:

I REALLY like a particular song.

And if you don’t like it?

You’re an asshole. A FUCKIN Asshole.

Pretty simple, actually…

mikey

Whatever Lennon did, it is as nothing compared to the Frog Chorus.

no mikey, I won’t call you an asshole.

Manolo, call dat guy an asshole.

Pretty simple, actually…

That’s it, all right. It would be so much simpler if people just stuck to that instead of spending 100 pages of typing trying to explain why I’m such an asshole, but I guess without a constant flow of nonsense the intertubes get all sclerotic.

I miss the days when you got hit with that “costing the net hundreds if not thousands of dollars” guilt trip every time you went to post a comment. Not that it ever stopped anybody.

I miss the days when you got hit with that “costing the net hundreds if not thousands of dollars” guilt trip every time you went to post a comment.

Wow. You must be really fuckin old. Asshole.
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poop

I once (in the mid-’90s) decided to start a completely baseless (yet harmless) rumor for no reason whatsoever. So I decided to start telling my friends that a completely wild friend of ours who played avant-garde jazz flute in between being a Fluxus performance artist and an abstract painter had been the flute player on Firefa**’s “You Are the Woman.” This guy (whom I love dearly) was nutso enough that it was funny and came from a mysterious-enough background that it could plausibly have been true, and besides, who the hell (especially pre-YouTube) was going to know?

It didn’t take off to the point I had hoped, which was that people would start telling it to me as though I hadn’t heard it and it were fact. But it spread to a few people.

And you know what? Paul was the better Beatle

I was the walrus!
Paul wasn’t the walrus!
I was just saying that to be nice
But I was actually the walrus!

The dream is over.

But I was actually the walrus!

Nooooooo they be takin’ away mah bucket!

Via Crooked Timber a “rub-your-belly, grab-your-balls, give-you-a-hug, slap-your-back, pull-your-dick, squeeze-your-hand, cheek-your-face, and pat-your-thigh kind of guy.”

To think there’s a thread here of supposed lefties that can’t imagine a world without authoritarians and capitalism shows how strong the kool-aid really is.

Or maybe some of us just enjoy the irony of John accompanying a song saying “Imagine no possessions” on a baby grand that had a 4- or 5-digit price back in ’71.

On an aside: Hugh Laurie and Stephen Fry have some fun with Hey, Jude.

It introduced ideas into mainstream American culture that rarely get any attention at all and certainly not in the numbers that Lennon’s song got. Growing up in a strict religious household it meant a helluva lot to me as a teenager to hear that someone who I liked a lot thought there might not be a heaven.

So true. Not only are those ideas not given any attention, they’re furiously attacked whenever somebody decides to put their head above the parapet.

Where’s the love for Lennon’s God?

God is a concept, by which we can measure our
I’ll say it again
God is a concept, by which we can measure our pain

I just believe in me, Yoko and me, and that’s reality
The dream is over, what can I say?
The dream is over, yesterday I was dreamweaver
But now I’m reborn
I was the walrus, but now I’m John
And so dear friends, you just have to carry on
The dream is over

That’s fucking heavy, man.

Canada needs SadlyNo Inc. to branch out. We are this close to having the worst government ever.

This week, the Conservatives passed their draconian immigration bill that will allow the [neocon] Minister to singlehandedly decide who gets in and who doesn’t. It passed only because the Liberals didn’t show up to vote against it because they didn’t want a summer election. I just read in the Globe that the Harper government has privatized the processing of Visa applications in parts of China. This is hugely controversial because all private companies processing Visas have to be licensed by the Chinese government and can have their offices raided at any time by the Chinese authorities. This means there is no guarantee of security of information.

The Conservatives are politicizing immigration in the extreme and now they are compromising the security of applicants in a totalitarian state where people are routinely imprisoned and sometime executed for their religious or political beliefs.

Also, this Thursday they want to introduce new copyright legislation that will outlaw the transfer of music to IPODs. Seriously and I’m not even kidding, they intend to criminalize copying music from a CD to an MP3 player. The legislation includes allowing the police to request the identification of IP subscribers without a court order. So basically they can come in and raid your computer at any time. Not just raid it, take it.

You thought Bush was bad……!!! I may have to relocate when Obama’s elected.

Lesley, that’s all very interesting, but who do you think the walrus actually was: Paul or John?

Well?

99 red balloons.
floating in the summer sky.
Panic bells, it’s red alert.
There’s something here from somewhere else.
The war machine springs to life.
Opens up one eager eye.
Focusing it on the sky.
Where 99 red balloons go by.

No. THAT’S fucking heavy…

mikey

Sorry. It’s been a crappy week and I hate the fuckin’ Eagles, man.

So fifth Beatle is like Al Qaeda number three?
True story, and I guess this is going to make me a total outcast now. My favorite Beatles song is Paperback Writer.

My favorite Beatles song is Paperback Writer.
Inspired by that song, I had written the first draft of my novel on brown-paper supermarket shopping bags — 1292 of them — before someone corrected my mistake about the lyrics.

Silly liebrals, arguing over a bunch of pinko, limey nancy boys. American bands not good enough for you, huh?

Poopy heads.

Inspired by that song, I had written the first draft of my novel on brown-paper supermarket shopping bags — 1292 of them — before someone corrected my mistake about the lyrics.

And then you became a doctor?

Inspired by that song, I had written the first draft of my novel on brown-paper supermarket shopping bags — 1292 of them — before someone corrected my mistake about the lyrics.
Man you truly were dedicated to your Kraft.

Also, this Thursday they want to introduce new copyright legislation that will outlaw the transfer of music to IPODs.

Sounds like the RIAA has seized control of Canada.

The 5th Rutle was Leppo. In 1960, when the band were playing all the clubs on the Reeperbahn, Leppo crawled inside a trunk with a small German fräulein and was never heard from again. Luckily he couldn’t play anyway.

Lennon wasn’t a saint, some stuff he did was very unpleasant. But he could inspire people through his music to be better people.
What inspiration do we get from dry, joyless hacks that decry musicians (musicians for fecks sake!!) aside from inspiring us to drool from both sides of our mouth.
Havel must have wondered what freakin’ alternate universe Podhoretz was from.

The Tubes > The Beatles

What is Zhdanov’s position on the walrus dispute?

Oh man, while looking for stuff about George, I came across this.

I rather regret that I mentioned my brother’s band. Yeah, their big hit is a rather silly, syrupy song that I still hear in my local Safeway or elevator. I only brought it up to make a point about how even a big fish in a small pond can really start to believe that he/she is a major center of the universe…. I can’t imagine what must have been going through the Beatles’ heads during the 60’s.

Oh, and yes, I had already been corrected about John saying that they were as big as Jesus, not God. My mistake. I was 9 at the time. Besides, my memory isn’t that good. Also, since Jesus and God, along with that Holy Ghost which I never, ever understood, is all supposed to be part of the same thing, wasn’t I correct in concept, if not actual words?

So, am I supposed to say “Poopie” here? Or should I wait a bit? I’m kinda unsure of the protocol.

baaad pun, mba. From your art I choke.

“Ah, yes… there’s that old innocence of spirit.”

Yeah, sadly I lost it a long time ago after 2 or 3 decades worth of shitty punk and post-punk music touted by musical morons like yourself as being better than the Beatles, Stones etc.

My goodness.

The fool seems to have some anger issues.

Perhaps he should listen to some beatles music and chill.

Y’know?

Or maybe even some Creed….

mikey

So, am I supposed to say “Poopie” here? Or should I wait a bit? I’m kinda unsure of the protocol.
The correct respons is, of course, poopie.

Lennon wasn’t a saint, some stuff he did was very unpleasant. But he could inspire people through his music to be better people.

My favorite Not Nice John anecdote: the Fabs were in an elevator with Brian Epstein and Epstein asked what he should call his biography. “Queer Jew” said John.

Well, OK, Epstein was a queer and he was Jewish, but still.

I only brought it up to make a point about how even a big fish in a small pond can really start to believe that he/she is a major center of the universe…. I can’t imagine what must have been going through the Beatles’ heads during the 60’s.

Athletes are even worse, I’d say. At least musicians have to develop a talent, but athletes are self-selected due to genetics. If I had practiced hard, I could have been a really good bass player in the prog rock style back in the day; I was never going to pitch in the major leagues however, no matter how much my tub of goo body tried.

Oh zeppo, it’s never the wrong time to say poopy; each and every moment is just one of infinite right times.

In the history thread I claimed that Hungarian Rhapsody #2 was the greatest rhapsody ever written. I take that back, Weird Al Musical Fucking Genius Yankovich.

Let’s try that again, apparently Weird Al is too much for WordPress.

it’s never the wrong time to say poopy
I prefer to have my monkey butler say ‘Poopy’ for me.

Canada needs SadlyNo Inc. to branch out. We are this close to having the worst government ever.

I’ll drink to that, y0.

My goddam monkey butler won’t wear the tuxedo.

He just wants to wear khakis and polo shirts.

Should I fire the little fucker?

mikey

ℙ➊➊ℙ

The fool seems to have some anger issues.

Yup. Part of why I don’t take my musical tastes very seriously – so I don’t end up like that.

not even an mba said,

rocksation (1 day ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply | Spam I hate this version of bohemian rhapsody, I hate soooo much!!!

Myfloodlebong (1 day ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply | Spam … What do the beatles have to do with this?

Heh heh heh. Youtube comments, Sadly, No! thread. We defame, you disfigure.

Does he spend half his time at the monkey bars?

Lesley, that’s all very interesting, but who do you think the walrus actually was: Paul or John?

John. But if it can’t be settled, how about Pope John Paul?

And the other half at Urban Outfitters.

He doesn’t get anything done.

And he keeps pissing on the book shelf…

mikey

Brian Epstein was gay? I never knew that. Does that explain the really tight trousers? (Hat tip to Eric Idle.)

forgot to change nicks

Yeah, sadly I lost it a long time ago after 2 or 3 decades worth of shitty punk and post-punk music touted by musical morons like yourself as being better than the Beatles, Stones etc.

Not me. I said Bo Diddley was better than The Beatles. And he was. I’l go one further. You know all them folks the Beatles and the Stones and what-all covered like Bo or Chuck Berry or Buck Owens or or Muddy Waters or Little Richard or Big Joe Turner or Sam Cooke or Larry Williams or any of those guys? Better. Otis Redding? Better. Aretha Franklin? Better. T-Bone Walker? Better. Patsy Cline? Better. And Elvis? Best of all, particularly from, say, 1968 to, oh, let’s cut off about mid-’72.

And I been saying that shit for years. So, nyahh. In all seriousness, though, ever since I saw Sympathy For The Devil and the promo video for that wretched Goddess In The Doorway album of a few years ago, I really can’t take Mick Jagger seriously. And since I saw the horrid, horrid third installment of Pirates Of The Carribean, I really can’t take Keith Richards seriously anymore, either. He looked like he might shatter. So disappointing.

Luckily, Ronnie Wood and Charlie Watts are still incredibly cool and awesome. It’s astounding, really, how bad-ass they are. I’ve seen the Stones a couple times and always, always, Woody and Charlie are the most awesome thing within a five-mile radius and you just sorta wish Jagger would shut his fuckin’ hole, sit the fuck down and quit prancing around like a stunned white-tail deer, you platonic honky.

You know who else I think is better than the Beatles? Hank Williams Jr. from about 1975 until 1984 or so – about the same recording time of the Fab Four – and I ain’t even kidding. But you wanna talk about a guy who started enjoying the smell of his own bullshit way too much. I got a live concert of him from, like, ’90 on VHS and, oh, is it a sad sight. Guy was bad-ass back in the day, though.

“He was bigger than LSD.”

–Pete Townsend on Jimi

Dear zeppo:
I videotaped your bro’s band rehearsing their stage act for their first tour at StupidStudio Instrument Rentals in Hollywood in 1975 (or 6?). Thought they were a sucky Eagles-type outfit, no offense to you, of course. Your brother wasn’t the onion-head drummer who was in Spirit (“I Got a Line on You”) was he?

And MzNicky:

You beat me to the Radio Dinner reference. And the Eagles are still awful. Best thing about the Eagles was that when we taped them rehearsing their crew played Richard Pryor albums on the P. A. while setting up for their majesties.

More Radio Dinner:

I resent
Performing for you fuckers
Tell me what do you know?
A lot of stupid hippies w/ your fucking peace symbol
Knocking at my door
Get this
Fuck that
I don’t owe you fuckers anything
And all I’ve got to say is fuck yoooooooooooooooou

[long sequence of bad piano chords]

The sky is bluuuuuuuuuuue

Also:

I’m sensitive as shit
I throw up before I go onstage
I can make a guitar speak
If I could be a fisherman I would
But I can’t because I’m a fucking genius!

Love that song, just love it!!

My monk he is a lama
I asked him to to vote for Obama
He said, with some drama, “sure, it’s alright with Rama.
Besides, he’s got a hot mama.”

I don’t think he’s a real monk.

ℙ➊➊ℙ

#9 … #9 … #9 … #9 … #9 …

jim said,

OMG! Saul is dead.

I prefer to have my monkey butler say ‘Poopy’ for me.

Everybody’s got something to hide ‘cept for you and your monkey butler.

Yeah, sadly I lost it a long time ago after 2 or 3 decades worth of shitty punk and post-punk music touted by musical morons like yourself as being better than the Beatles, Stones etc.

Actually, I’ve always liked the Beatles and I’ve never had much interest in punk, shitty or non-shitty. And while I’m definitely a moron, I’m not very musical.

As for you, you might want to try soaking yourself in a tub of warm chicken fat and epsom salts for a few hours to relieve your pronounced musical anxieties.

Matt T., you are so right, all those colored folk were much better than those limebags who covered them, although I must admit The Stones added a certain existential white person something lyrically…But Elvis was a total suckfest after the Army. All you need Elvis-wise, is the first greatest hits album.

WAL(OL)LY GEORGE!!!!

We loved watching that guy as younguns. Didn’t get (or care) about the politics but thought he was so hilariously stupid.

Matt T: I’m sorry, but you’re wrong, oh so wrong. Nobody is better than the Beatles. Well, maybe Otis and Aretha. Throw in Wilson Pickett and you’re almost there.

M. Bouffant: “Magical Misery Tour” — it’s classic. I still laugh myself silly listening to it. I think the liner notes said something like “Yoko is a concept by which we measure our pain.” The original Radio Dinner LP had “Deteriorata” on it too, lots of funny stuff. Must correct the lyric though a little because I’m a pedantic Beatles purist:

I resent performing for you fuckers
Tell me what do you know?
A lot of stupid middle-class kids wearing long hair and trendy clothes
Look, I’m not your fuckin’ parents
And I’m sick of uptight hippies comin’ knockin’ at me door
With the fuckin’ peace symbol
Get this, fuck that
I don’t owe you fuckers anything and all I’ve got to say is
Fuck youuuuuuuu…
The sky is bluuuuuue…

Pardon me sir!

This is central to the point on my head.

See, here’s the part where I’m just stupid, I guess.

I don’t get the whole “coolness” factor.

Music, poetry, movies, tv, novels, whatever. There’s two categories for me.

The ones that make me happy, and the ones that don’t.

So yeah. There’s things, from Santana to Manilow to Speedwagon to Eagles to Heart to Greenday and more and more that make me happy. Some very similar shit doesn’t. So know what? I don’t listen to it. Or watch it, or read it, or whatever.

But it just seems to me that nobody sucks and nobody’s great. It’s just, find some things that you like and enjoy them.

My best friend forever just died of brain cancer. Sixty to zero in twenty three days. Here’s the lesson.

Find what you love. It’s not a reflection. Loving it does NOT make you special. But if you love it, enjoy it. If you see it as a who’s cool contest, you’re going to miss the parts that you deserve to enjoy.

You’re not on the red carpet. Love what you love. You don’t need to hate what you don’t love. You can just push it out of your universe. And live in a place where the world offers you what you love.

mikey

Malignant Bouffant,
Nope. You’re wrong. Not about the movies, though. Most of them were pretty goddamn bad, and even the good ones (up to King Creole ’cause I like King Creole) require a certain amount of forgiveness to a dumbass country boy who really was trying his best in a no-win situation. And I will be the first to say the vast bulk of his for-movie studio work – particularly past G.I. Blues – was sub-par, to say the least. But, like with the movies, it was the machine and not the man, not to mention that those looking out for the Big E’s “best interests” often had other interests at heart.

But nothing past the ’50s? Pshaw and balderdash, sir. High thee to a record shop and buy you a copy of some permutation of The Memphis Record and feast your ears upon the bounty. The Big E, out of the movies and back in his element, backed by the guys who helped make the sound of Memphis Soul what it was and, praise glory, a sure-fire crop of tunes. “Suspicious Minds”, for cryin’ out loud. “Kentucky Rain”. “Only The Strong Survive”, which just might be better than Jerry Butler’s version. Just might. “Any Day Now” which is better than Chuck Jackson’s version, and that means something, son.

A blend of soul, R&B, country, gospel and pop, black and white, city and country, there was no end and no beginning, just the beat. There really wouldn’t be anything that awesome until that first Blue Sky record Muddy Waters did a couple years later.

‘Course, not everyone leans t’wards the blues, so one’s mileage may vary. Still and all, to say that Elvis was crap after Uncle Sam got through with him just tells me that, frankly, you ain’t actually tried yet. Nothing to be ashamed of, most people really don’t. It’s one of those myths of rock & roll, like that it died in ’58/’68/’78/whenever or that it ever died, Elvis sucked except for the the ’50s. But, really. If you can listen to that record and not at the very, very least admit that the King had one good shake in them hips, then I don’t know what to tell ya. Perhaps you are a lizard person from another dimension, I don’t know.

Wonderfully said, mikey. I agree totally.

Nothing more subjective than artistic taste. Find what you love, as mikey said, and don’t let anyone tell you that you shouldn’t like it because it’s crap.

Sorry about your friend, mikey.

Matt T: I’m sorry, but you’re wrong, oh so wrong. Nobody is better than the Beatles. Well, maybe Otis and Aretha. Throw in Wilson Pickett and you’re almost there.

When Duane Allman suggested that Wilson Pickett cut a version of “Hey, Jude” during his recording session at the famed Muscle Shoals Sound stuido, the Wicked One responded that he was not going to do a song “about no Jew”. Obviously, they cleared him up on the matter and he cut a version that was, yes, Better Than The Beatles (such statements call for capital letters, I’m sad to say).

Hey, here’s an odd stroke. Pickett covered “Hey, Jude”. Aretha covered, lessee, “Elenor Rigby” and “Yesterday”. Arthur Conley covered “Ob La Di” and Fats Domino did an awesome version of “Lady Madonna”. Ike & Tine covered a couple tunes, like “Come Together”, “She Came In Through The Bathroom Window” and “Get Back”, which was also covered by Billy Preston.

While I’m thinking about it, not all of these covers are BTTB. Fats Domino’s is, though, and I’m partial to Tina Turner just in general.

Anyhow, the only soul cover of a Stones tune I can think of is Otis Redding singing a about a third of “Satisfaction” at Monterey, which isn’t that big a deal ’cause he does the same thing to “Respect” and he wrote that. You can tell Otis is from the country from the “I done tried/I done tried/I can’t get me no…” in the chorus.

Booker T. & The MG’s? Better Than The Beatles, and the Beatles would’ve probably owned up to that. And I’m just stoned on the first decent weed I’ve been around in weeks and full of good Mexican food, mikey, so don’t take my gibberish seriously. Especially about music. I used to get paid for this nonsense, and I think I’m paying for it karmically. My brother says if I got laid I would spend so much time thinking about the sociologically implications of Beatles covers by the guy who did “Will It Go ‘Round In Circles”, and I think he’s probably right. He usually is.

Matt T., we’d just as soon that doesn’t get spread around, as beings from yet other dimensions are still looking for me. And I like King Creole too (Carolyn Jones doesn’t hurt any), but all E’s later stuff was over-produced.

I am the blues (as someone said) Muddy & The Wolf on Chess being my personal faves, but later, whiter Elvis, uh-uh, oh no.

Thanks for the exact quotes MzNicky. I knew I was leaving something out. I would have gotten out my copy & played it except I don’t have it any more, nor do I have a turntable. Yes, the whole album is good.

“George [Harrison] spreads himself so thickly over the world.”

Also:

“That’s no reason to drop it in the mud.”

Alright, I think I’ve caught up. Beatles, Elvis. Stones. Everybody who came before.

And some Eagles cover band.

Got it.

that Holy Ghost which I never, ever understood…

It’s a white magic bird. What’s there to understand?

And, finally, a music video we can all get behind.

Wise words, as always, Mikey. Sorry to hear about your friend.

mikey:
So sorry about your friend. That’s awfully rough. The spouse and I are also at the age where it seems all our friends (and ourselves) are being diagnosed with some damn horror show or other. So yeah, it’s all illusion, pick out the good stuff and enjoy it while you can.

To me the Beatles are great because, for one thing, they helped me survive from adolescence to adulthood. Their music grew along with me and my friends and brothers and showed us the way out. And eternally I’ll always be in love with them.

Word! on HW jr.

with a side order of David Allen Coe…

M. Bouffant: I found a National Lampoon compilation disc a few years ago that had Magical Misery Tour on it and some other Tony Hedra stuff, including some stuff from “Lemmings” I’d forgotten about. I played the LP into oblivion (“Hi, I’m Bob Dylan! Remember the ’60s? The love-ins, the be-ins, the draft card burnins? Now Apple House has collected” … etc.) and never could find it on cassette but then found the CD. Not a real great compilation but worth it for MMT. I’d be happy to burn you a copy.

[male voice]: Hi. I’m Barbra Streisand. It takes so little to off a pig, and it means so much. Won’t you help?

Oh! Oh! and “Pull the triggers”/Joan Baez parody!
Okay, I’m done. Gonna go dig that sucker out now and play it again.

“Over produced”? Oh, man. You know, I believe we’re measuring by different sticks. But that’s okay. It hurts my heart that you’re missing out needlessly on so much unbridled awesomeness in such a neatly wrapped package, but that same heart is filled with joy at the knowledge that one day you might realize the glory, for the first time, even. That may be my favorite thing ever: realizing that something I thought I didn’t like, usually for some dumbass reason that has fucking nothing to do with the musical merit itself, was in all actuallity incredibly, face-crushingly bad-ass. I did that with Neil Young. Seriously. Couldn’t stand the guy all my life, saw him with Crazy Horse at the H.O.R.D.E. festival in ’96 or something like that, and instantly became a fan. Went out an bought Zuma because he did “Barstool Blues” and I thought that was the best song I’d ever heard right up until that date. Now, take note: I had just gotten laid and had been tripping my balls off all day – and I was on asignment to cover the damn thing for a Florida music mag – so who knows, I might’ve just been in an overly generous mood by the time Neil hit the stage. Still, crazy about the guy’s stuff. Some of it, anyway. Arc and that rockabilly thing, not so much.

Anyhow, yeah. Buy The Memphis Record, if only so that one day, maybe years from now, a whim or whimsy will cause you to play it and you’ll got “Goddamn. This is bad-ass.” And whole new doors will open up. I bet it’ll happen halfway through “Suspicious Minds”.

And if not, hell, someone will buy it on eBay.

Matt. Honest to gawd.

I wish just once I could hear the music thru your ears.

‘Cause I don’t get it. And I can’t get it. It’s all about subtleties I’ll never hear, and contrivances I’ll never see.

I admire you for the sophistication of your tastes, but you have to forgive me. It’s all just a whole bunch of simple for me. I don’t know how to do what you do.

But, as the classic line goes, I know what I like.

And ultimately? That’s enough.

I need to go cry now…

mikey

mikey,
Nah. It’s all cool. It’s nothing heavy, I just like beer joint music. If country music was complex, I’d have never heard it. It’s just there were better drugs and prettier girls in covering music than there were in covering, say, school board meetings. Mix in a minor in philosophy, a job that requires minimal mental attention, and no girlfriend, and quite frankly, I’m amazed I can tolerate myself at times. And I don’t have to tell you that just ’cause you don’t like it now don’t mean you won’t like it later. Never stop listening.

My sympathies for your pain.

Hope the friend’s okay mikey.

The digital age is really getting me focused on my listening habits: I have no idea what I’m listening to much of the time so I concentrate on what it is that makes me happy about a piece. I burn CDs of stuff without labels and come back to look up what it was I did if I like it.

In any case the Beatles clearly top everybody Matt’s mentioned because they were not simply a genre band and even though George was a shit guitar player who played better in the fucking Traveling Wilburys.

That said my fave right now is Which Way is Up by Stargard, a longish disco workout that became the theme to a modestly crappy Richard Pryor movie.

Ray Davies is better than all the Beatles combined.

Big Sky is a much better song than Imagine. The worst Kinks song is still better than a bad Beatles song.

I burn CDs of stuff without labels and come back to look up what it was I did if I like it.

I’ve been doing this with random streaming radio channels, great way to find new stuff I like.

Ray Davies is better than all the Beatles combined.

Big Sky is a much better song than Imagine. The worst Kinks song is still better than a bad Beatles song.

This is a tough case. I am slowly working my way through the entire Kinks catalog and even when the songs are recognizably great they frequently sound bland and dull. Edge to the Beatles for getting a producer who made their good songs sound full of life. So…maybe Ray Davies is indeed better than all the Beatles combined. He just didn’t catch the right breaks.

In any case the Beatles clearly top everybody Matt’s mentioned because they were not simply a genre band and even though George was a shit guitar player who played better in the fucking Traveling Wilburys.

Yet, the Beatles borrowed heavily from those same genre acts in getting their own sound, right up until the very end. Hell, Lennon never stopped trying to lose himself in the ’50s. What goes around comes around.

Personally, I wouldn’t rate the Kinks as better than the Beatles, but to their credit they did dare to tackle the issue of men being rendered impotent by duck paintings.

Yet, the Beatles borrowed heavily from those same genre acts in getting their own sound, right up until the very end.

Sure, but they didn’t just borrow from those guys, they borrowed from everywhere and did wind up with their own sound. There are some things that they obviously couldn’t do – they didn’t have the grit or the guitar chops to convincingly ape the American artists they liked – but they wound up doing things that nobody else could with songs that people will remember until they die, like ’em or not.

And Patsy Cline? Come on. What a snooze. She’s no Dolly.

Reading this thread, suddenly I feel young again. Cuz honestly, music to me starts at Joy Division, Echo and the Bunnymen, and The Teardrop Explodes. John Lennon might as well be George Washington, Elvis Presley–hell, let’s go way back, say, Marcus Aurelius.

The Teardrop Explodes

Any band that writes the cringe-inducing line “I can’t have it too” does not deserve lasting fame. I nevertheless listen to “Reward” now and then.

Marcus Aurelius Live at the Regal really gets down and dirty in the mud.

Well I’ll fess up and just say the stuff I’m into I would certainly never submit to the Rock and Roll HOF, I’ll just leave it at that. I mean, a few threads ago you people were swapping blancmange recipes and here I thought you were talking about this stuff. No, I get it…this stuff just doesn’t age well. But damned if it doesn’t make me want to crank up the iPod like a day-glo dorkasaurus.

And Patsy Cline? Come on. What a snooze.

You’re mad! Mad, I say! The only country music I’ve ever been able to play during sex and not have the woman demand it be turned off, for fuck’s sake, is Patsy Cline. Seriously, try it next time and see if I’m wrong.

She’s no Dolly.

Well, of course she isn’t. She’s no Ray Price, either. She was, however, an exceptional Patsy Cline, which was pretty damn cool. Dolly’s awesome, too. I met her once, about 14 years ago. Stunning woman, and her most striking feature is her smile. I’m not being facetious, either; you could spotlight deer off that smile.

her most striking feature is her smile.

I agree. This is one of those cases where I get shocked that someone isn’t nuts, but she seems to be both sane and pleasant.

And you know what? Paul was the better Beatle.

No No NO; But the shot the wrong Beatle, “Mull of Kintyre”, shooting is to good for that kind of scum…..

And you know what? Paul was the better Beatle.

No No NO

Success at last!

I’m a Marty Robbins man myself. Check out his version of “Cool Water” sometime- it’s the musical equivalent of the feeling of getting a massage, or of settling into a hot tub.

You’re mad! Mad, I say! The only country music I’ve ever been able to play during sex and not have the woman demand it be turned off, for fuck’s sake, is Patsy Cline. Seriously, try it next time and see if I’m wrong.

As far as sex goes, I’ve found this invariably helps my cause.

Try Ferlin Husky’s Living in a Trance. Spooky reverb, should have been in a David Lynch production. Maybe it was.

Hey! Stargard!

This is a tough case. I am slowly working my way through the entire Kinks catalog and even when the songs are recognizably great they frequently sound bland and dull. Edge to the Beatles for getting a producer who made their good songs sound full of life. So…maybe Ray Davies is indeed better than all the Beatles combined. He just didn’t catch the right breaks.

Ray Davies produced most – if not all – of the Kinks stuff from The Village Green Preservation Society onward, and his production style leaves a little to be desired. Even some of their stuff that’s been remastered sounds a little muddy and I get the impression that having all the instruments tuned wasn’t a big priority for The Kinks. Nevertheless, if you haven’t made it to Muswell Hillbillies yet, check it out. It’s a great-sounding album, with some excellent songs. Dave’s guitar is in tune (most of the time, at least) and it sounds great on tunes like “Holloway Jail”.

That said, even when Ray Davies managed to write a bad song, it doesn’t make me reach for the “skip” button near as much as a bad Beatles song. There are a few bad songs on The Village Green Preservation Society, but I can make it through the entire album without skipping a song – even “Phenomenal Cat”. But The Beatles’ White Album? “Ob-la-di, Ob-la-da” and “Rocky raccoon” make my skin crawl in ways not many songs can do.

The worst Beatles song ever has got to be the last track on the most overrated Beatles album of all-time: “Tomorrow Never Knows” from Revolver. That is just 3 minutes of hideous.

The worst Beatles song ever George’s “Within You Without You”. Hearing the crappy blues solo via sitar cracks me up every time.

The only country music I’ve ever been able to play during sex and not have the woman demand it be turned off, for fuck’s sake, is Patsy Cline. Seriously, try it next time and see if I’m wrong.

I used to date a semi-goth chick who was into stuff like Bauhaus, The Misfits and The Damned. One day she confessed to me that Conway Twitty’s voice made her panites wet, as did Roy Orbison. Some Marty Robbins songs did, too – “Don’t Worry” and “Begging To You” among them.

If I’m going to have sex while listening to punk, give me Flipper’s Generic album.

Matt T., have you heard Marti Brom? A nice hybrid of Patsy Cline and Wanda Jackson. She’s not hard to look at, either.

So we both agree George Martin should have talked sense into the Fabbies and ditch the tanburs.

Canada needs SadlyNo Inc. to branch out. We are this close to having the worst government ever.

Lesley, while I sympathize with some of your points, I must say that Canadian immigration did need to sort its act out. Was a real byzantian process, that didn’t really say; ‘hey come to our country’, more like, here is yet another hoop to jump through! Yes, I suppose the tory scum’s version is worse, but it did need some serious reform.

The only […] music I’ve ever been able to play during sex and not have the woman demand it be turned off
Bolero.
What?

Having been a Beatles fan since they did the Sullivan show and being a Lennon fan in particular, I made the mistake of reading his bio, “The Lives of John Lennon”.

Holy shit.

The man was as fucked-up a monster as humanity can contrive….and he’s what comes to mind when rockers think of “Peace”?

I’m gettin’ too old for this.

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I want to bring up something I think is important.

Somebody up there said that the people who don’t like “Imagine” are a bunch of cynical bastards. I think it’s the opposite; I think that Imagine only sounds trite when you fundamentally agree with it.

My response to the lyrics is, essentially, “Yeah John, no duh.” To me, it’s an obvious thought stated in a not terribly interesting way.

But!

Some people are terrified of it. Think about the kind of mindset it must take to see Imagine as the sign of a crumbling society. “Hey, what if we don’t get so uptight about everything and just be nice to each other?” is, to them, a dangerous thought that will spread like a virus, infecting weak minds and making them susceptible to attacks from the groups that still get uptight and still love to kill when they get pissed.

Imagine this said,
The reason people living under authoritarian regimes who don’t actually want to be living under authoritarian regimes tend to identify with artists like Lennon or Zappa or Ginsberg is because the latter are anti-authoritarian.

You don’t get it: There’s always an authority. All there is or ever can be are slaves and masters. Anti-authoritarinaism isn’t an option; somebody is always in charge.

Always.

If Lennon succeeds in convincing the youth to abandon their Christian-American overlords, the only result can be another master stepping in. And this one will beat us even more often then the current master.

That’s it; that’s all there ever will or can be. The majority will be slaves of somebody; freedom is not a choice.

Apparently it’s not easy to imagine all that peace stuff if you try.

John Lennon might as well be George Washington, Elvis Presley–hell, let’s go way back, say, Marcus Aurelius.

Then I pity you. And get off my lawn.

The worst Beatles song ever has got to be the last track on the most overrated Beatles album of all-time: “Tomorrow Never Knows” from Revolver. That is just 3 minutes of hideous.

All right, now that’s enough out of you, young man. You may be excused. Go to your room and forget all about dessert.

John McCain is older than every band mentioned in this thread.*

Just thought you’d like to know.

L’Arky

*Except for Creed, because suck is eternal.

Mr. Sharansky has a new book, titled “Defending Identity.” It would be equally accurate to call it “The Case Against John Lennon.”

This set me wondering what other titles for the book might also be accurate. These are my top three options at the moment:
— The Case against Mr Bathbear;
— My life in the Green Putty Industry;
— Invasion from Mars, though not an invasion by Martians because that’s too obvious, but an invasion of Venusians who went to Mars first to take advantage of the gap in our Defences!

Having been a Beatles fan since they did the Sullivan show and being a Lennon fan in particular, I made the mistake of reading his bio, “The Lives of John Lennon”.

That book’s universally regarded as a worthless hatchet job. The New York Review of Books wrote Goldman’s background research was either slovenly or nonexistent, and pretty much everyone who knew Lennon seems to agree.

Is this discussion still going on? My.

I think it can all be summed up in a few words. MY taste in music is better than YOUR taste in music. So there! Nyah!

Longer version, I really can’t take country music. Maudlin, sometimes really dumb lyrics, and twangy guitars and whiney steel guitars get on my nerves. Listening to the Beatles takes a certain frame of mind. Yeah, compared to today’s guitarists, George was not a very good lead guitar player. Still, I do get a kick from pulling out some of their stuff now and then. I do have to roll my eyes whenever I see that video of “All You Need Is Love”, however. Boy, every single stereotype from the hippy love-fest 60’s is contained in that one. And some of their later songs, I have to wonder just what prompted that one. Rocky Raccoon, Why Don’t We Do It In The Road, etc. No other band could get away with actually releasing those kinds of songs.

Creed sucks.

And Poopie…. I think.

God there are a lot of insufferable people on this thread. Yeah, yeah, you’re all just so smugly better than it all. This is the punk influence that destroyed the counterculture and the far out fucking magic that was rock and roll from 1965-1975. Punks are blind anti-authoritarian meatheads who — once the rockers established some kind of “counter” place in the culture — overgeneralized and misapplied the whole counterculture concept and stupidly, moronically, decided that “kill the fathers” meant kill rock and roll.

Well guess what? You pinheads succeeded! Congratulations, you pathetic losers! You think you’re so hip and so discriminating in your taste, but you know what? You got nothing. Your crappy musical culture can’t hold a candle to what happened between 1965-1975. Your crappy musical preferences will soon be forgotten while people continue to listen to the Beatles and the Stones for centuries. In fact, most of you punks have already given up on punk.

Am I angry? Yeah I’m angry. When someone attacks something you love it makes normal people angry. Do I have anger “issues”? No. What a lame accusation. You sound EXACTLY like the wingnuts attacking the netroots when you say that.

Later dudes. I’m off to finish my project for this morning: learning how to play Jerry Garcia’s cover of Bruce Cockburn’s “Waiting For A Miracle”. That ought to make a few of you cringe. Good.

It occurs to me how hilarious it is for a bunch of punkers to berate someone for having “anger issues”. Pot meet kettle. No one has more anger issues than a bunch of shaved head assholes slamming their bodies into each other to sound of some no-chops poser banging barre chords.

Well guess what? You pinheads succeeded!

It may interest you to know that punk did not sell well and that the baby boomers destroyed their own legacy by moving on to adult contemporary.

Punks are blind anti-authoritarian meatheads who — once the rockers established some kind of “counter” place in the culture — overgeneralized and misapplied the whole counterculture concept and stupidly, moronically, decided that “kill the fathers” meant kill rock and roll.

Yeah, but can YOU stick safety pins in your cheek? Didn’t think so.

Bruce Cockburn rocks…..

If you don’t like punk so be it, but punk didn’t destroy rock or even try to; it grew directly out of the rock of the late 60s and early 70s, and most of the musicians recognized the massive debt they owed to The Stooges, Velvet Underground, kraut rock, etc. If they rejected anything musically, it was disco.

Disco rocks…

Historians write with dread of the day that mohawked and beleathered punk rockers forced the Jefferson Airplane to become Starship and release “We Built This City”.

Bubba: I agree with you on Jefferson Starship. They blew. I saw a Jefferson Airplane reunion show in the late 80’s that basically did a retrospective of the band’s history. When they got to the Starship era and cheezy Marty Balin and Grace Slick songs like Miracles the real musicians in the band, i.e. Jack Casady and Jorma Kaukonen literally tuned their backs to the audience out of embarrasment.

Those two went on to form the very respectable Hot Tuna and now Jorma runs a guitar camp where musical greats like Bob Margolin, Larry Coryell, Roy Bookbinder, Rory Block, Warren Haynes, Bill Kirchen, David Bromberg, Chris Hillman and many more try to carry the torch and pass it on to a new generation. Those guys are mostly in their 50’s and 60’s but they are real musicians, devoted to their craft, not a bunch of flash-in-the-pan, deconstructionist, performance “artists” who attempt to make a virtue out of lack of skill on their instruments.

Say what you want, but the punkers clearly had it out for the rock “dinosaurs”. There is no doubt that the punks saw their project as killing off the rockers who made them so jealous. Most punks I know also hate the blues where it all came from. Sorry, but I just can’t hang with that.

The absolute best band from the 70’s? Emerson, Lake and Palmer!! No doubt in my mind! Brain Salad Surgery was brilliant! A classic for the ages! It’s not at all the pretentious crap that some people suggest! Tarkus was even better!!

No takers, huh? My trolling skills need some polishing, I guess.

You know, if you’re basing your sneering beliefs about punk on the opinions of random people you know who happen to like it, rather than on the musicians who were voluble about their musical influences and debt to those who went before, you are falling into the same trap of smug ignorance you complain about in others.

And zeppo, imagine me shaking my fist and saying your name like Colonel Klink said “Schuuuultz!” Also, poopy.

Actually, the dood who cracked the line about you having anger issues wasn’t some shaved-head punk. It was an OLD longhair DFH fucker with a few issues of his own, and it was intended to accomplish two things:

1. Make fun of you, because lots of us around these parts tend to mock people with wacky or extreme views

and

2. Maybe make you think a little that there is no position on music that is “right”, just as there is not position on music that is “wrong”. You like what you like. For heavens sake, enjoy it. But people who like something else are not “stupid fucks” or “pinheads” (watch much o’reilly, fer cryin out loud?) but merely people with different artistic tastes than you. Even you would get tired of a world that only included shit you like.

Frankly? Cripes, fellah, get over yourself…

mikey

If it weren’t for us punks the concert business would be lousy with reunion tours by lame old dinosaur rockers. Our power is awesome. Did I ever tell you all about the time I prevented the Steel Wheels tour from happening?

Bruce Cockburn rocks…..
If I had a rocket launcher
I’d launch rockets in the morning
I’d launch rockets in the evening
All over this town!

Yeah, yeah, you’re all just so smugly better than it all
Sure buddy, we’re the ones claiming that we’re better human beings than you because of our musical tastes.
We’re dismissing “Imagine” and “Working Class Hero”, you’re taking a dump on the entirety of punk music.
But you know what, I think we should put aside our differences, and kick the shit out of some emo-kids.

Mike:

Well, Mike, I’d like to make you think that maybe there is a position — or more likely a range of positions — on music that are “right”. Certainly there are many that are wrong.

BTW: the relativist response I fully expect from you self-destructs. You can’t have it both ways and say that you are right that there is no such thing as being right.

Get over myself? I’m not touting myself as one of the great musicians I defend so I don’t really see what you’re getting at other than a lame ad hominem.

People believe different things. They agree about some things and disagree about others. Please get over yourself and stop telling people that they aren’t allowed to disagree with your oh-so-enlightened position.

And don’t worry, brother, I enjoy the hell out of music — probably much more than you.

Well, you know what they say. One’s man floor is another man’s ceiling….

Wait, that was about townhouses. Musicial tastes…. I actually think I was trying to say, in a MUCH more subtle way, what tigrismus, mikey, lawnguylander and this person who apparently never finished graduate school said directly. I like my way better, as it takes a certain amount of subtle insight and introspection to see when you are being whacked over the head about your espoused viewpoints. But, you know, there are things to be said for the “direct” method as well.

Still, someone REALLY needs to explain to me why R.E.O. Speedwagon ever was considered “a successful rock band”. Or “a rock band”, period.

Historians write with dread of the day that mohawked and beleathered punk rockers forced the Jefferson Airplane to become Starship and release “We Built This City”.

*shudder*

Those two went on to form the very respectable Hot Tuna

I can’t think of anyone who gives a shit about Hot Tuna but you. If that’s what you want to hang an argument on then you’re not talking about this great movement, you’re talking about marginalia.

The American music of that era was going to be weird: the country was wealthy, there were a lotta kids, and there were a lotta drugs. And let’s face it, it was almost all kiddie music, just like today. When these folks got older, they left the music behind.

New kids, new music. Is it now a great revolutionary uprising? No. There are less kids.

I think we should put aside our differences, and kick the shit out of some emo-kids.

Yeah, we all need to stick together and beat up the polacks! I suggest starting with “screamo” band Hawthorne Heights.

…so I don’t really see what you’re getting at other than a lame ad hominem.

Well my foolish friend, I think you’ve already made the correct response to that statement which is, of course

Pot meet kettle

BTW zeppo, if you’re serious about your question then have a look here.
“Can’t Fight This Feeling Anymore” ain’t their only song. They spent like a decade playing rock, some of it pretty poppy, before they switched over into full soft-focus harlequin-romance love ballad mode.
That said, they do still suck.

Oh, incidentally, I did finish my masters degree, it’s just not in business admin.

Thanks, NEAMBA. Actually, if I remember correctly, I rather liked their first two albums, I think it was. Then something happened, they got a new lead singer, I think, and turned commerical. I just like posting whatever comes into my head and see who responds. And just joking about your posting name as well… No offense.

I will go on record as saying everything I’ve heard off Hi Infidelity is catchy and the guitars were way up in the mix for the kind of commercial stuf they were doing, which is good.

Nevertheless check out the keyboardist here and the singer’s outfit.

Stuff!

Yikes! A jock strap is obviously required…..

“I can’t think of anyone who gives a shit about Hot Tuna but you. If that’s what you want to hang an argument on then you’re not talking about this great movement, you’re talking about marginalia.”

Wow, talk about missing the point…

No offense.
None taken. At least not yet. That’s several comments in a row you’ve made without saying poopie. Watch yourself or I’m going to have to get the poop ninjas out of cryogenic storage, and I hate doing that because the cold is the only way to keep the smell in control.

Oh, right…. Poopie. Sorry.

(Damn, I gotta write all this down…. Didn’t realize there were so many rules here.)

Another note on Mikey et al.’s relativism: you all sure don’t ACT like you think everyone is equally right, now, do you? If you hadn’t told me so, I would have SWORN you thought you were right and I was wrong.

lol

The Fool said, June 12, 2008 at 16:04
Later dudes.

The Fool said, June 12, 2008 at 17:37
garble garble squawk

Ain’t it always the way?

RB: Historians write with dread of the day that mohawked and beleathered punk rockers forced the Jefferson Airplane to become Starship and release “We Built This City”.

What more needs to be said?

Oops, missed a couple.

Wow, talk about missing the point…

The point was apparently great music and how punk rock ruined it. Is Hot Tuna great? If so why can’t they get it across to those who aren’t tripping on Geritol? Because punk rockers stole their lunch money?

What more needs to be said?

This is the internet. THE INTERNET!

Sam From Utah said:

Uh, Bubba:

You’re still badly missing the point. Maybe you should calm down, pop a Xanax or whatever it is you’ve been prescribed, and then go back and reread it all when you’re feeling more up to it.

#

The Fool said,

June 12, 2008 at 18:27

Another note on Mikey et al.’s relativism: you all sure don’t ACT like you think everyone is equally right, now, do you? If you hadn’t told me so, I would have SWORN you thought you were right and I was wrong.

lol

Intentionally obtuse or just helplessly stupid?

You be the judge.

My position, to try to make this easy for you, is that your opinion is just that – an opinion. The reason I make this statement unequivocally is that there is no way to describe art in absolute “good” or “bad” terms.

So yeah, I suppose in that way you’re right, I am taking the position that I’m right and you’re wrong. But not about your opinion about music. Only about your opinion re: the absolute correctness of your position vs. someone else’s.

Which is to say that your opinion about what constitutes “great” or “bad” music is exactly as valid as “stupid fucks” like me.

You think you can wrap your excitable, post-punk mind around that concept?

Good luck, mi amigo…

mikey

This discussion is more interesting to me, getting upset about stuff that really doesn’t matter, to the one in the next thread, where there is really stuff that is being discussed that aggrevates the hell out of me.

This is more fun.

What do people listen to in present day times? I have Keiko Matsui on right now.

Irony alert.

What do people listen to in present day times? I have Keiko Matsui on right now.

Hmm…my most recent thingamajigs in heavy rotation are that Stargard thing, Antony and the Johnsons doing Divine (heh), and Rufus Wainwright singing One Man Guy.

I wish I was gay so I could say “I AM SOOOOOOOOO GAY!”

Another note on Mikey et al.’s relativism: you all sure don’t ACT like you think everyone is equally right, now, do you? If you hadn’t told me so, I would have SWORN you thought you were right and I was wrong.

No, you are wrong. Imagine is a terrible song.

It’s just that we’re all wrong. Here’s mikey on it again:

I REALLY like a particular song.

And if you don’t like it?

You’re an asshole. A FUCKIN Asshole.

Pretty simple, actually…

Geez, it’s a fucking song. Get over it.

And zeppo, did you actually use Bruce Cockburn and Disco as trolling bait? Fucking hell!
Cockburn =/= Disco.
I demand an apology for all the Bruce Cockburn fans out there (both of us). Cockburn will not be denied his due respect. Seriously, that was out of order. This whole court’s out of order. If Cockburn was the man he was twenty years ago, he’d take a rocket launcher to this place.

Cockburn!

Right this second I’m listening to Can.

Okay, I just like typing Cockburn.
Cockburn!

“Get Back”, which was also covered by Billy Preston

Not surprising, considering he played on the original version.

Now if you’re talking about late Elvis, one must not forget “Burning Love”. Sometimes I think that might well be the best record Elvis ever made.

I thought I’d be shunned about the whole Paperback Writer thing…

I’m not listening to music at this moment, but when I do put something on, odds are it’ll be kt Tunstall.

Coming up on the At Work playlist…

Fictional Reality Slayer Divine Intervention
2112 Rush 2112
One-Eyed Sam The Hoosier Hot Shots Rural Rhythm 1935-1942
Never Mind Bo Peep Laurel And Hardy Trail Of The Lonesome Pine
Spring Any Day Now Fred Frith Gravity
Nocturnes #3 Clidat, F./Satie, E. Oeuvres Pour Piano
Silver Morning Brian Eno Apollo Atmospheres & Soundtracks
Pink Moon Sebadoh Sebadoh Vs Helmet/Rocking The Forest
Matty Groves Fairport Convention History
The Night Before The Beatles Help
Jesus Gonna Be Here Tom Waits Bone Machine
Geistige Nacht Fred Frith Gravity
Nights on Broadway Chad Everett Golden Throats 2: More Celebrity Rock Oddities!
Sex Mad Nomeansno Sex Mad / You Kill Me
Up On Cripple Creek The Band
Cruel And Thin Sun City Girls 330,003 Crossdressers From Beyond The Rig Veda (1)
Crow shellac At Action Park
Been Listening All the Day Blind Joe Taggart
A Secret Revealed Unwittingly Sun City Girls Dante’s Disneyland Inferno (Disc 1)
Cigarettes and Chocolate Milk Rufus Wainwright Poses
New Flesh Zeni Geva Total Castration
Jive Turkey(Part 1) Ohio Players Gold
Someday (You’ll Want Me To Want You) Hoosier Hotshots Are You Ready Hezzie
Verbal Abuse/Leeches Slayer Undisputed Attitude
Never Understand Jesus and Mary Chain
Apna Desh Sun City Girls 330,003 Crossdressers From Beyond The Rig Veda (1)
Allure Jay-Z + DJ Danger Mouse The Grey Album
A Violent Reaction American Head Charge No Name Music Sampler
Welcome To The Terrordome Public Enemy Fear Of A Black Planet
Sweet Lady Queen A Night At The Opera
I Love Me Tiny Tim
Pda Interpol Turn on the Bright Lights
Promise Not To Kill Anybody The Didjits Full Nelson Reilly
Objection Overruled eXodus Impact Is Imminent
The Pandys Are Coming Killing Joke Revelations
Nice ‘N Easy Frank Sinatra The Capitol Years (Disc 3 of 3)
50 ways to leave your lover Paul Simon
Knights at School Michael Nyman The Ogre
Uhhh The Lemonheads Hate Your Friends
Jenifa Taught Me (Derwin’s Revenge) De La Soul
Dear Janet Jackson… Richard Thompson Not released
Night Prowler AC/DC Highway To Hell
Oh, My Pregnant Head The Flaming Lips Transmissions From The Satellite Heart
The Last Act of Defiance eXodus Fabulous Disaster
When I’m Sixty-four The Beatles Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts
Blue Mambo Sun City Girls Torch of the Mystics
This Is It (Ain’t Gonna Rain) Schoolly-D Smoke Some Kill
Strawberry Fields Forever The Beatles Magical Mystery Tour
I Gotcha Joe Tex Reservoir Dogs Soundtrack
I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend Ramones All The Stuff (And More) Volume One
I Know I’m Not Wrong Fleetwood Mac Tusk

I thought I’d be shunned about the whole Paperback Writer thing…

That is a great song. Those guys had enough craft to make throwaways classics.

I’ve got Pandora on, a channel seeded with Tull’s “Locomotive Breath”. Right now it’s playing J Geils “Sanctuary”…

mikey

Well, yeah, NEAMBA…. It’s a method I used. Type the first thing that comes into my head that I find amusing, and see what happens. Maybe not a particularly GOOD method, but a method nonetheless. However, I was not actually EQUATING Bruce Cockburn to disco. Even I know that difference. Boy… I have, someone in my old collection that I haven’t even looked at in 20 years, “Dancing in the Dragon’s Jaws”. That was O.K., I played that one quite a bit for a time….

I hereby apologize to any Bruce Cockburn fans, who may or may not be alive at the present time, who may have been offended by my gratuitous use of the term “disco”. It was indeed uncalled for and I am wholly shamed….

You know, you never know who you might offend when you start trashing music. I once said something derogatory at FDL about ABBA, and here comes Donita Sparks to argue with me about the merits of ABBA. Who would have thought?

Mikey: I see, I see. So you’re a relativist about works of art but not about aesthetic theory? Opinions about works of art can be neither right nor wrong, but positions in what we might call meta-aesthetics CAN reach the status of right or wrong,

So if I understand you correctly, and I think I do, YOUR aesthetic philosophy is absolutely right and MINE is absolutely wrong. However, it follows from the absolute rightness of your meta-aesthetic philosophy that my aesthetic taste is every bit as good as yours.

That is a very, shall we say, interesting psoition, Michael. I would venture to say that 99% of those professional philosophers who take a relativist stand on aesthetics also are relativists about truth in every other area, including meta-aesthetics. But not you, Mikey. Not you. You have apparently developed a unique position in the field.

I wonder if you would deign to explain to a Fool like me, what is that distinguishes aesthetics from meta-aesthetics in this way?

keep trying mikey

Wow, Mr. Bubba! I am impressed. Eric Satie AND Tom Waits.

I don’t wanna be a pinhead no more

Hahahahahaha, take that dinosaur rockers!

I think this “Fool” is the same bitter old Deadhead who provided hours of bilious mirth on an alicublog thread a while back. Hey fool, the reason we punks had such an attitude in 1977-78 is we were surrounded by assholes like you. Get over yourself.

Hey fool, the reason we punks had such an attitude in 1977-78 is we were surrounded by assholes like you.

Who exactly was buying all those Foreigner records? Punk rockers or baby boomers? Was Night Ranger the fault of punks?

J Neo Marvin: BINGO!

I’ll get over myself, right after you get over yourself. Cool?

I’ll get over myself, right after you get over yourself. Cool?

It is a relief that hippies tend to die before punks.

It was indeed uncalled for and I am wholly shamed….
But do you denounce it? And renounce it? And pronounce it? And disavow it? And misavow it? And Tim Russert it? And promise not to pick on my Tunstall obsession? And also swear never again to speak ill of ABBA? Well, do you?

I wonder if you would deign to explain to a Fool like me, what is that distinguishes aesthetics from meta-aesthetics in this way?

Listen you stupid fucking prig, I don’t like you because you’re a self-righteous bloviating asshole with a martyr complex. I don’t like Tim Russert for very similar reasons. These positions are reasonable. But if I didn’t like you because you were black or gay or a vaginal-American, that would make me an ignorant bigot. Got it? Or is that too complex for a Fool like you.

I’m so over myself I’m into myself all over again, my classic rock troll friend.

Hey, this is way more fun than arguing about politics!Takes me back to more innocent times.

J Neo, Mikey et al:

Your position is not as tolerant as you think. My view allows the possibility that people can be right or wrong and, crucially, it respects other people’s right to disagree.

On YOUR view, however, not only should people not disagree with each other, its not even possible to disagree. On your view when I say “X is good,” I’m really saying “relative-to-me X is good” and when you say “X is bad” you’re really saying that “relative-to-you X is bad”. As a result, we cannot be in disagreement because our beliefs never meet head on. Get it?

My position is more tolerant because it allows people the right to agree and disagree.

“My mind it ain’t so open that anything can crawl right in!”

-Howard Devoto

not even an MBA said, “Listen you stupid fucking prig, I don’t like you because you’re a self-righteous bloviating asshole with a martyr complex. I don’t like Tim Russert for very similar reasons. These positions are reasonable. But if I didn’t like you because you were black or gay or a vaginal-American, that would make me an ignorant bigot. Got it? Or is that too complex for a Fool like you.”

I guess it is too complex for me because I don’t understand what you’re saying at all.

I wish I was gay so I could say “I AM SOOOOOOOOO GAY!”

Cut Copy makes such awesomely gay dance music that you’ll be toe tapping the whole weekend if you give it a try.

My position is more tolerant because Fuck all of you Imagine haters. You fundamentally don’t get it, you stupid fucks.

We’ve seen several impressive examples of your respect for the right of people to disagree, I must say.

Dude, it was all downhill after “Anthem Of The Sun”. Face it.

Oh Lord, here continueth the Fool, saving the the leftards from their own hypocrisy.

And Cut Copy rulez!

My position is more tolerant because it allows people the right to agree and disagree.
WOW. I’m totally won over. It’s quite clear from this entire thread who’s the most tolerant. Please Mr. The Fool, do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to? I’d like to grow my tolerance so it’s as big as yours.

Ok you all win. I have been fully reeducated. Everything is as good as everything else. Well, except classic rock, which sux. Punk rulz, the Beatles suck. Got it.

Shorter Fool:
You think you’re so clever and classless and free
But you’re still fucking peasants as far as I can see

and

When someone attacks something you love it makes normal people angry

Well, no. Actually normal people recognize when something is a matter of opinion and then go on about their business.

I guess it is too complex for me because I don’t understand what you’re saying at all.

Here, let’s try this again. You said

Opinions about works of art can be neither right nor wrong, but positions in what we might call meta-aesthetics CAN reach the status of right or wrong

Now replace “works of art” with “who’s a scumbag” and then replace “meta-aesthetics” with “racism” or “sexism” or “homophobia” or “blind worship of a song to the point of insanity”. Really, just like your mom told you last night – it’s not that hard.

Cut Copy makes such awesomely gay dance music

I’m not so big on the singing, and yet I am listening to Rush RIGHT NOW.

Me: I would have SWORN you thought you were right and I was wrong.

not even an MBA: No, you are wrong.

I stand, er…. corrected?

Punk rulz, the Beatles suck. Got it.

Please point out who said that.

Day after day, alone on a hill
The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still
But nobody wants to know him
They can see that he’s just a fool
And he never gives an answer

But the fool on the hill sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head see the world spinning round

MzNicky said, “When someone attacks something you love it makes normal people angry” Well, no. Actually normal people recognize when something is a matter of opinion and then go on about their business.

I see, I see. You are obviously an adherent to the Michael Dukakis school of emotional correctness.

I guess you’re right because none of the people who have responded to me seemed even the slightest bit angry…sadly, it was only me.

The Beatles finally became worth listening to when they started being sampled by rappers like Doug E. Fresh, the Beastie Boys, MF Doom. Prior to that they were just like elevator music.

Fool, Fool, Fool… tsk, tsk. You really should have taken my advice about immersing yourself in warm chicken fat.

I’ll get over myself, right after you get over yourself. Cool?

The Fool knows you are, but what is he?

False dichotomy time! Some of us like both the Beatles and punk rock just fine. I even like Yoko Ono’s early albums, which combine the two.
The Beatles had the good sense to break up before they started sucking, which is more than I can say for the Stones…or the Dead for that matter.

OK, everybody stop typing Cockburn.

Yeah, well, Hot Tuna was no Canned Heat, let me tell ya.

And that Strawberry Alarm Clock! Boy, have they got that groovy sound!

The Beatles finally became worth listening to when they started being sampled by rappers like Doug E. Fresh, the Beastie Boys, MF Doom.

The Fab Four had the foundations of some good stuff there, but they just couldn’t pull it off. Too bad.

J Leo said, ‘We’ve seen several impressive examples of your respect for the right of people to disagree, I must say.”

Yes you have. I don’t call people names simply because of the fact that they dare to disagree with me at all. I respect them by responding to their arguments, when they have any. And you have seen me exercising my own right to disagree, which is quite conistent with what I’ve been saying.

But on the relativist view, there can be no respect for anyone’s right to disagree because on the relativist view, disagreement on these matters is logically impossible.

Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! PENIS Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn!

Nothng says summer vacation like a college boy with a music theory course under his belt who now has nothing to do until fall except surf the InternetsTubes picking inane fights and coming up with “projects” like learning to play Jerry Garcia songs.

I don’t call people names simply because of the fact that they dare to disagree with me at all, you stupid fucks.

Yes you have. I don’t call people names simply because of the fact that they dare to disagree with me at all. I respect them by responding to their arguments, when they have any. And you have seen me exercising my own right to disagree, which is quite conistent with what I’ve been saying.

First words out of The Fool’s pie-hole:

Fuck all of you Imagine haters. You fundamentally don’t get it.

Here’s an argument for you, if Imagine told you to jump of a bridge, would you?

Cockburn!

Hey: It’s pronounced KOKBURN so you can quit giggling.

Bubba said: “The Fab Four had the foundations of some good stuff there, but they just couldn’t pull it off.”

Snort.

I’m sorry but that is abuot as ignorant a statement as you will find. Son, you’re talking about the most popular band of all time. Not only were they able to consistently chart in the Top 10, there were times when they WERE the Top 10. Women fainted at the sight of them. They changed the lives of millions.

What the hell do you know about pulling anything off other than your sad little shriveled member? True, women faint at the sight of you too but for completely different reasons.

I don’t call people names … blah, blah, blah

Nevermind about all that – how’d you like a nice slice of yummy pie?

I guess you’re right because none of the people who have responded to me seemed even the slightest bit angry…sadly, it was only me.

We’re not angry at you, The Fool! We’re toying with you!

I’m sorry but that is abuot as ignorant a statement as you will find.

The Beatles never had a single hit. Name one.

Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! PENIS Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn! Cockburn!

Garrr, I should’ve seen that coming!

“Relativist”? What the bloody blue blazes are you on about?
The difference here seems to be between one mentality that says there are many genres of music around, and if you pick through the catalog of any artist, you’ll find great stuff and garbage, vs. another mentality that says THIS is a good genre (old rock) or artist (Beatles, Garcia) and everything they do is beyond reproach, while THIS (punk, post-punk) is all crap that has ruined my whole life and I’ll never get over it, boo hoo hoo, you bastards.
I leave it to you all to judge which aesthetic is more sane.

The Fool at 19:48 — RB shoots, scores!

The Fab Four had the foundations of some good stuff there, but they just couldn’t pull it off. Too bad.

Exactly, man. Although I will admit that they have a certain camp value all these years later. They were trying so hard to be the British version of Paul Revere and the Raiders and that was so adorable.

RB,
So you don’t have to complain about no one falling for your troll bait, I’d like to point out it’s actually pronounced KOHL-burraghh. Like in those GI Joes shows where all the evil henchmen scream KOHL-burraghh!

I actually think I might disagree with the notion that all art is subjective and cannot be judged against a non-relativistic manner. Not so much music, I was thinking of the “visual arts”. I think the term “artist” has become so misused that it has lost a lot of meaning. When I think of great art, I think, oh… Matisse, Renoir, Goya, Rodin… I rarely think of someone like Cristo, who was, in my mind, one of the biggest “con” artists (clever, huh?) of all time. Wrapping the Arche de Triomphe in a bunch of cloth is not art. It’s stupid. Neither is burying a bunch of Cadillacs up to their steering wheels in the form of Stonehenge is particularly artworthy.

In Seattle, we have a big arts and music festival over Labor Day weekend called Bumbershoot. It is Seattle, after all. I was looking at one artistic display, which turned out to be a bunch of paper boats, brightly colored in rather stupid check patterns, floating in a pool. This had been labeled as one of the artistic displays around the grounds. I said something like, “Boy, this is really pretty stupid. That isn’t art.” It turned out that the creator of the display was standing right next to me, and he wasn’t too pleased. I just shrugged and said, it’s a bunch of paper boats. Non-meeting of the minds, obviously.

Art takes both talent and vision. Some of the stuff that gets passed off as art these days is a fraud. So, yes, I think there are non-subjective ways to judge artists and their work. It’s very difficult to categorize, of course, and I figure that someone, somewhere, will argue with me about the merits of colored paper boats floating in a fountain.

Music is more difficult. I try not to be too critical of musical tastes. I try to say things like, “Well, that isn’t really something I like very much” and I can even attempt to explain why. But I try to stay away from language that implies that someone with an opinion different than mine is somehow dumb or lacking in critical taste for having that opinion. A friend of mine does that to me now and then, and I get really annoyed. She doesn’t understand, at all, about why I am annoyed.

Anyway, it’s an interesting argument, subjective vs. objective artistic judgments….

not even an mba: if you read what I said very carefully, you’ll see that I have been consistent in what I said. Its a little nuanced for someone of your limited logical abilities, but I have faith in you, brother.

But it’s spelt Cockburn!

Poopie.

No, no no! The British version of Paul Revere and the Raiders was the Rolling Stones! Everybody knows that!

They were trying so hard to be the British version of Paul Revere and the Raiders and that was so adorable.

The Beatles were certainly no Dave Clark Five, that’s for sure.

Some of the stuff that gets passed off as art these days is a fraud.

Hey, who is this dildo?

Wait a second. Paul Revere and the Raiders is obviously something that the British might be a TAD touchy about, given their entire motif has something to do with taxes and indians throwing tea in the harbor and the suchlike. I learned about all this watching John Adams on HBO, it’s really quite fascinating. Why would any self-respecting English person try to copy a Revolutionary War Bubble Gum band?

not even an mba: if you read what I said very carefully, you’ll see that I have been consistent in what I said. Its a little nuanced for someone of your limited logical abilities, but I have faith in you, brother.

Oh, so it’s all been a big misunderstanding. I get it now. When you said:

But it requires an innocence of spirit to appreciate

What you really meant to say was:

My view allows the possibility that people can be right or wrong and, crucially, it respects other people’s right to disagree

And when you said:

Fuck all of you Imagine haters.

What you really meant was:

I don’t call people names simply because of the fact that they dare to disagree with me at all.

And when you said:

I respect them by responding to their arguments, when they have any

What you really meant was:

What the hell do you know about pulling anything off other than your sad little shriveled member? True, women faint at the sight of you too but for completely different reasons

Yup. Totally consistent.

Because they’re relativists?

Hey, PR&theR may have been Bubble-gum-ish, but Mark Lindsey was hot.

My mom like Fang, for some reason.

“Midnight Ride” is a pretty consistent album. Well worth checking out.

Sometimes it’s hard to say the right words, even when you know them in your heart. Most songs have words, but the song is for someone I don’t even know yet. So there are no words, just a melody…for a girl. (Picks up saxophone and plays lugubriously sexy solo)

MZnicky: “Nothing says summer vacation like a college boy with a music theory course under his belt who now has nothing to do until fall except surf the InternetsTubes”

Actually I have a graduate degree and a senior position at one of the most high-powered political firms in D.C.. I’m a helluva multitasker and I work at home so when I’m caught up, I head for the guitar room and jam.

Please forgive me. I know how good it can be. I’ve been there and heard it and it makes me sad when I look around today and understand what has been lost.

I’ve been there and heard it and it makes me sad when I look around today and understand what has been lost.

That would be your argument.

not even an mba:

I said, “I don’t call people names simply because of the fact that they dare to disagree with me at all.”

Here’s a project for you, mba. Think about how the word “simply” operates in that sentence.

I know how good it can be. I’ve been there and heard it and it makes me sad when I look around today and understand what has been lost.

You’d see more if you opened your eyes, but yeah, we’ll get off your lawn.

a senior position at one of the most high-powered political firms in D.C..

Ah! So this shit is all your fault!

FWIW, I like “Imagine”, by the way.

Here’s a project for you, mba. Think about how the word “simply” operates in that sentence.
Okay. When you say “simply” what you mean is “I’m right so fuck you”. What can I say, I’m pretty good at parsing.

Here’s a project for you – peel all of your skin off with a plastic fork.

I lost my keys the other day…

Actually I have a graduate degree and a senior position at one of the most high-powered political firms in D.C.. I’m a helluva multitasker and I work at home so when I’m caught up, I head for the guitar room and jam.

I believe this is a variation on the internet foot – stamp “I have a big motorcycle and custom greek leather boots and a girlfriend who looks like angelina jolie and a depleted uranium .357 magnum eighteen shot revolver and I can kick your ass”.

It’s always pathetic, though…

mikey

John Miller: I’m with you on “Imagine” — love the piano

And now to get an image in your head that you’ll pray to god to get back out, “Imagine” this guy doing it with a piano.

Mikey: yeah, except it happens to be true. Sorry.

I believe this is a variation on the internet foot – stamp

Indeed. He probably has staff to shovel coal into the boiler of the “I’M AN ASSHOLE” blinking sign.

Mikey: yeah, except it happens to be true.

Yes it is true that it is the internet foot-stamp. On this we are agreed.

Now if you’re talking about late Elvis, one must not forget “Burning Love”. Sometimes I think that might well be the best record Elvis ever made.

I’m with ya, that’s a personal favorite, too. Apparently, though, it wasn’t one of the King’s favorite tunes. He cut that after Priscilla left him and his heart just wasn’t into the hard rockers. Imagine how bad ass that would’ve been had he cut, say, ’71 or so.

And I want it to go on record that I never said anything about punk rock or, for that matter, the relative merits of it versus what’s generally considered the whole late ’60s music thing. The stuff that came before was better, that’s where I stand. Seriously, why would anyone listen to skinny pale dudes cover the blues and R&B when you have access to the originals?

I remember someone else who was better than The Beatles: Ray Charles. There’s your genre-bending artist, RB, right from day one.

Mikey and Bubba: call me a liar but I would estimate that there is also about a 95% chance that I can kick both your asses. My wife was a total piece of ass back in the day. But no bike and no gun.

Don’t hate me cause I’m beautiful bros.

#

The Fool said,

June 12, 2008 at 20:23

Mikey: yeah, except it happens to be true. Sorry.

Of COURSE it is…

mikey

it makes me sad when I look around today and understand what has been lost.

And actually, since the term “punk” was first applied to music in 1970(to music that had been around for at least a couple years at that point), your ire might be a teensy bit misplaced.

Mikey and Bubba: call me a liar but I would estimate that there is also about a 95% chance that I can kick both your asses.

You and what army of hippies who now buy Streisand albums?

I remember someone else who was better than The Beatles: Ray Charles. There’s your genre-bending artist, RB, right from day one.

There’s a good case there.

I think there’s a 95% chance “The Fool” could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch.

And back to Miller again

A band called A Perfect Circle has a great cover version. The music is bleak and the vocals are subdued. It’s a much-needed deconstruction of the song. It’s like the anti-”Imagine.” I’m not sure the musicians intended it that way, but that’s the result, by my lights

Has anyone else heard this cover he’s talking about? Geez, who could imagine that Imagine was too up-tempo? It’s like the Nickelback version, but they’re all stoned out on pot. What? Nickelback’s from B.C.? Okay more stoned out on pot.

Streisand rocks…

Mikey and Bubba: call me a liar but I would estimate that there is also about a 95% chance that I can kick both your asses. My wife was a total piece of ass back in the day. But no bike and no gun

BWAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAH!!!one!11

There’s your innocence of spirit right there. I’m a big shot and I can threaten you over the Internets! If only John were with us today, so he could see what his music hath wrought.

I’m chuckling to myself right now. The fact that you boys find these true statements to be inconceivable just makes you so pitiful.

I could be wrong about kicking your asses. Do you boys bench over 200? Ever even been in a fight?

What are we arguing about again? Apparently, I need to make my non-sequiturs more relevant.

Now THAT’S hilarious.

No pie script for this dood, he’s crackin me up.

So, bragging about your High Powered Position™ and your physical prowess anonymously on an internet board would somehow NOT qualify as pitiful?

Hokay then. Let’s move along….

mikey

Fool, you know, if I might…. I am not sure that we are finding your statements so “inconceivable”. It’s just that it is rather telling you feel the need to brag about it…

Mikey: I didn’t raise the question. I merely answered it.

#

The Fool said,

June 12, 2008 at 20:41

I could be wrong about kicking your asses. Do you boys bench over 200? Ever even been in a fight?

Oh my. Physical violence?? That’s too scary for the likes of us…

Hee hee…

mikey

I could be wrong about kicking your asses. Do you boys bench over 200? Ever even been in a fight?

Clearly this Lennon fellow was on to something with all the peace and love and shit.

I call fake The Fool. No one not named Jonah Goldberg could provide that much hilarity. Seriously, someone’s doing a magnificent spoof, or we’ve come across a Pantload quality intellect here.

Ok boys: anybody want to make a prop bet? Say $1000? We can find a neutral party to hold the cash.

OK, let me get this straight. He’s lamenting the loss of the loving, innocent spirit of the 60s, which those nasty punks destroyed, and now he’s a tough guy working for a big firm in DC, which sounds suspiciously like BEING PART OF THE PROBLEM to me. And he could beat us up, which is central to his point.

“I was a pacifist hippie until Anarchy In The UK was released and now I’m a quasi-right wing anger junkie immersed in the corrupt political culture of Washington and proud of it”, in other words. Am I caught up so far?

For the record: I’ve never started a fight. But I’ve ended several.

I call fake The Fool.

Shush you. Let me have my pretend sell-out hippie!

And actually I hate D.C. and I think about quitting all the time.

Gotta go do some rush work for a U.S. Senator now. No shit.

Gotta go do some rush work for a U.S. Senator now. No shit.

Mom caught you with the porn again, huh?

This is great! At the ripe old age if 50 I am, how you say, mellower than I used to be and get along well with a lot of folks that might be labeled as hippies, and sometimes I wonder, what was all that “I hate hippies” guff back in the day all about? Thank you Fool, for refreshing my memory.

(No disrespect intended to any honest, authentic hippies out there.)

Gotta go do some rush work for a U.S. Senator now. No shit.

Yep. Those dudes can really fill up a wastebasket…

mikey

I am not sure by what definition Da Fool might be considered to be a “hippie”. Um, this was a bit before my time but I did have some exposure to “the counter-culture” courtesy of previously referred to brother’o’mine. I am not sure what I have heard from M. Fool, I would put him into a category I usually associate with people doing lots of drugs, not wearing shoes, driving VW vans, taking over ROTC buildings, etc.

I blame Spiro Agnew, actually.

Gotta go do some rush work for a U.S. Senator now. No shit.

Someone just sat down in the stall next to you?

Yep. Those dudes can really fill up a wastebasket…

Heh.

Gotta go do some rush work for a U.S. Senator now. No shit.

Hey, let us help. I know of a couple places in DC where a body roughly the size of a hooker could be hidden for days!

This is the funniest thread I’ve read in a long. I don’t even care if it’s Fake Fool at this point!

time. In a long time.

I will always treasure the moments we spent together.

I just put out a beacon. Some militant New Wavers should be arriving shortly.

Ok boys: anybody want to make a prop bet? Say $1000? We can find a neutral party to hold the cash.

Oh my God. Dude, stop typing.

Gotta go do some rush work for a U.S. Senator now.

Listen, I don’t care if you’re Jeff Gannon, blowing Larry Craig is not prestige work.

sometimes I wonder, what was all that “I hate hippies” guff back in the day all about

Yeah, I seem to recall reading that some folks at the time didn’t like the hippies or their music, and recoiled at the rejection of their own cultural artifacts. Probably thought hippies were blind anti-authoritarian meatheads, too. I bet cave dudes thought that about the lithophone playing kids of their day, too.

If you can’t get enough of the Fool (and who among us could?) here is the old Edroso post where he (as “Cosmic Charley”) pops into the comments, insults everyone, the commenters respond by knowing more Grateful Dead trivia than him, he blusters and sputters out misogynistic insults, and a splendid time is had by all. Read the comments.

http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2008_02_24_archive.html#6190607500052128669

Thanks Marvin!

Ya know, this isn’t the first time I’ve seen someone willing to comit physical violence on a total and complete stranger because of the Beatles. And speaking as a pot-smoking, peace-and-free-loving, war-hating longhaird freaky-type person…ehh, go ahead and hate on hippies. The old ones get tedious quick and the young ones don’t realize how dumb they look. I will, however, say that if it comes down to it, I’d rather hang out with hippies than punkers. Better drugs and the girls are friendlier, as a rule.

Oh, and I actually like the Grateful Dead. Not live. They sucked live, seriously, except for the Europe ’72. I think they had some pretty good tunes up until Mars Hotel or so. All other jam bands, though, suck.

I’m still trying to recover from the unexpected shock to system from viewing a Styx video.

Laaaadddddyyyy….. From the moment… Urg. I need to go brush my teeth.

Actually, I went to a Styx concert once, before they hit big. They had a group called White Witch open for them. Anyone remember them? They had a song titled “It’s So Nice To Be Stoned”. I sat three rows from the stage, right in front of one of the towers of speakers. My ears rang for three days.

I will, however, say that if it comes down to it, I’d rather hang out with hippies than punkers.

Think of “hippie” as “Christian” and you will understand the breadth I think of when I use the term. Granted I usually use it as an epithet but I’m the ruder punk-appreciating type. Reasonable people of all varieties are free to rummage through my consumables.

I don’t understand the concept of hating groups of people, en masse, without exception. That’s a dumb idea to me. Especially when there are so many good reasons to hate people on an individual basis.

I don’t understand the concept of hating groups of people, en masse, without exception.

They’re THEM. We’re US.

the girls are friendlier, as a rule.
Until you get to second base. After that punk chicks rock.

Is it too late to tell the Fool to go fuck himself?

commie atheist: I vote no.

Until you get to second base. After that punk chicks rock.

Maybe I’m just predjudiced. All the punk rock girls I was involved with all drank like someone was about to take it away from them. The hippie girls all had weed and had heard good things about the concept of “tantric sex”. ‘Course, this was in college in the mid ’90s when we thought we had it all figured out. Good times. You poor kids who’ve never known anything but Bush, I feel for, man. I’ve always had serious problems with the Clinton presidency, but it seems like it was almost the non-stop rock & roll party it should be in comparison to the last seven years.

Anyhow…

All the punk rock girls I was involved with all drank like someone was about to take it away from them. The hippie girls all had weed

Am I to take from this that liquor is not quicker? I remain skeptical.

…had heard good things about the concept of “tantric sex”

Whatever floats your boat, buddy. It’s just that sometimes sex can be a religious experience without being spiritual at all. Just sayin’.

I don’t understand the concept of hating groups of people, en masse, without exception.
Saves time. Efficiency. The only way I can arrange to hate people on an individual basis is by outsourcing the work to a boiler room in Mumbai.

Especially when there are so many good reasons to hate people on an individual basis.

Not everybody can be Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged.

Look, people, it’s simple. Someone a lot wiser than any of us spelled it out a long time ago…

“There are like, only two kinds of music in this whole world — bad music and jazz.”

–Maynard G. Krebs, 1960

Like, clear as glass, daddy-O.

So shut the fuck up, all o’ ya! And get offa my lawn and stop stealing my apples, or you’ll be lookin’ down the barrel of my .303 British, ya thievin’ li’l bastids!

Am I to take from this that liquor is not quicker? I remain skeptical.

Well, what can I say. Howlin’ Wolf’s my main man and, like him, I’m built for comfort, not for speed. What’s the big hurry?

Whatever floats your boat, buddy. It’s just that sometimes sex can be a religious experience without being spiritual at all. Just sayin’.

Oh, I’m not talking about all the mystial mumbo-jumbo and spiritual boosh-whah. I’m talking about educating oneself on the many splended varieties avalible to the human form and being willing to put ’em into play.

I don’t know, can you think of a better way to kill the better part of a Saturday afternoon?

I will leave you all with some words of wisdom from the great Hunter S. Thompson (which I saw someone else quote on a blog recently). The point is that history, including the history of musical culture, has ups and downs. Things are not always the same. And things are not always as good. It is the height of provincialism to assume that what you have is as good as anything else ever was. Now why don’t you whippersnappers get off my lawn and get your asses to work making up some new music that surpasses that of 1965-1975? My cohort didn’t didn’t do it and, so far, despite all your bluster, neither has yours :

“Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Five years later? Six? It seems like a lifetime, or at least a Main Era — the kind of peak that never comes again. San Francisco in the middle of the sixties was a very special time and place to be a part of. Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run… but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant…

So now, less then five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark — that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.”

I don’t know, can you think of a better way to kill the better part of a Saturday afternoon?

Umm. Drinking cheap white wine and playing scatological scrabble with the kids from the home?

mikey

Damn, mikey. I think we’re talking about two entirely different things, then. Or shit, I don’t know. Perhaps I’ve been doing it improperly this whole time.

UR DOIN’ IT WRNOG!

I’M IN UR POT
HUMPIN’ UR HIPPIE CHIX!

Now why don’t you whippersnappers get off my lawn and get your asses to work making up some new music that surpasses that of 1965-1975? My cohort didn’t didn’t do it and, so far, despite all your bluster, neither has yours.

…which is why it’s 95% likely that you can kick our asses. Why don’t you do it, if we’re such leathered-out punker wimps? Huh? Huh? Typical liberal, sitting there waiting for a handout. Hmf.

Did that Senator really need that HST quote in a “rush”?

You know what else is provincial? Thinking any one generation was the cultural high water mark. Also, being anti-establishment until you become part of the establishment, and then complaining about antiestablishmentarianism.

You know who did some really cool stuff from ’65 to ’75? Jerry Lee Lewis. Seriously, he was on Smash/Mercury and did some flat awesome country music, whether it was newer stuff like “Middle Aged Crazy” or “What Made Milwaukee Famous” or digging up some Hank Williams or Moon Mullican tune. The Mercury stuff did tend to be heavy on the strings ‘n’ chorus, like most country music was in the late ’60s, but the Killer moved to Elektra in the ’70s and did some unhinged shit, boy. Find you a copy of Southern Roots or The London Sessions. Bad-ass rock & roll by one of the few legit bad men of rock & roll.

I met Jerry Lee Lewis once, too. He was being awarded some sort of key to the city of Ocala (I saw him in Ocala, see) and he looked like had he his druthers, every single one of us would get the mortal shit stomped out of us just for wasting his time. I also saw him tell two hots girls to stop dancing in front of him because, and I quote, “I’m the fuckin’ show”.

Better Than The Beatles? Well, I am overly partial to boogie woogie piano, so I won’t say.

tigrismus, I am really impressed. I think you may be the only person I have ever encountered to actually USE the word “antiestablishmentarianism” in a sentence.

Even better, it gives someone else the chance to use the word “antidisestablishmentarianism” in a sentence.

Sorry. It’s been a crappy week and I hate the fuckin’ Eagles, man.

Well, the Eagles sucked ’til Joe Walsh joined up; not so bad after that, if you just listen to the guitar and not that other stuff.

Matt T., as to Brits who got the blues, how’d you like John Mayall and all the folk he trained and spun off?

Woohoo! I also have a gargantuan motorcycle and custom boots made from Godzilla’s foreskin.

I still have trouble with that one… Doesn’t “anti” and “dis” in the same word constitute a sort of double negative? In the same word! What’s up with that? That’s too weird.

I figure if you can’t write using words with less than 12 letters each, you are just showing off.

“You know what else is provincial? Thinking any one generation was the cultural high water mark.”

Well, there are two possibilities:

1) there are no ups and downs and the quality of music (or anything else) is a constant throughout history

OR

2) the quality of music changes over time

I don’t see how 1) could possibly be true. What force maintains it at a constant level? Sounds mysterious. But if 2 is true, then logically, there has to be a high water mark.

QED

Dammit, I told you guys back in the circumcism thread I didn’t want that dam thing out there.

Gimme back!

Define “quality”.

It is the height of provincialism to assume that what you have is as good as anything else ever was.

Who said that one?

Hmm. Which requires one to make an absolute judgement about the overall quality of all the music in the world at any given point in time.

So either one has a machine that can make that measurement, or one makes a subjective judgement.

Sorry…

mikey

zeppo: quality = goodness

lol

I think you know what I mean. Its the thing that is different when you think to yourself, “I like this song better than that song.”

well, mikey youlre absolutely right. Just because there is a truth of the matter, on my view, about whether some piece of music is relatively good or bad doesn’t mean I know how to discover it. And that’s why we argue about it. But we’ve been arguing largely on the meta- level, my friend, about whether it even makes sense to say A is better than B.

I can see saying something like, “Gee, George Harrison actually played some crappy lead guitar riffs.” I think it’s O.K. to define quality for some technical aspect. “Man, that was a crappy mix.” “That lead singer’s voice sure is screechy.”

But when you are trying to compare the quality of music from one era to the next, on what basis are you judging it? Your predetermined likes and dislikes. What is quality when you are talking about subjective criteria?

Mozart probably would have hated the Beatles.

And now if you’ll excuse me, Larry Craig is paging me. He wants some kind of rush job, apparently.

Hum. Drive-by trollery….

Quality is not about personal likes or dislikes.

BTW tigrismus, Hunter S. Thompson DID have a gargantuan motorcycle, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he had custom boots made from Godzilla’s foreskin. But you were probably writing better stuff than he was when you were just 15 right?

The comment at 23:44 is not mine.

Only two? How about aesthetics change, so that one can’t necessarily compare generation to generation(especially when one is steeped in the aesthetic of one generation and purporting to judge another)? How about history’s not over yet, so even if one could theoretically determine the high water mark, you couldn’t do it yet? Anyway, the Beatles were crap compared to Gesualdo, DUDE WAS HARDCORE.

zeppo said “on what basis are you judging it? Your predetermined likes and dislikes”

And zeppo, what predetermined your likes and dislikes? Is it purely random, non-cognitive factors or is there a cognitive component to it?

Think about your own case. Compare your taste when you were 13 to your taste now. Didn’t your taste get better? I know mine did. if you think yours did too, then you have conceded my argument in principle.

But Larry Craig really does have a thing for me, you know.

My slight was not directed against HST, you realize. I don’t think he was saying what you think he was saying.

Top 5 albums of 1965
Mary Poppins
Beatles ’65
The Sound Of Music
My Fair Lady
Fiddler On The Roof

zeppo: in the same vain, think, in your own case, about a band you really respect right now and a band you really think is trash right now.

Do you not have any reasons, in your own mind, for thinking that? Do you think its just purely random like preferring chocolate to vanilla? or does it have something to do with musical factors like, good performance, good writing, good lyrics etc.

Well, I’m not gonna get into all that “my choices in music are better than yours” wankery. I will tell what’s on the ol’ Ipod though:

Walter Becker
Led Zeppelin
Cracker
Dave Brubeck (Time Out…awesome)
Beatles
Elvis Costello
Steely Dan
Bruce Springsteen
Midnight Oil
Count Basie
Underworld
The Postal Service
Oysterhead
Chicago (II, their stuff post- VII was teh suck)

…more but the ‘pod isn’t with me and I can’t be bothered to thimk up the rest. My tastes range fairly wide…I’m not so much into country, classical or crooners but just about anything else (good) is fair game. And I’ll be the judge of what’s good. For me.

Now, if you imagine that Beatles ’65 is better than Mary Poppins – even with Dick Van Dyke – you have a problem.

Certainly, there is a cognitive component to likes and dislikes. My likes are certainly different than they were before. Better? Ask a 13 year old to compare the two and they might say, maybe not.

Maybe we are just screwing around with semantics here. I have to leave soon, but here is the point I was trying to make. I can observe the quality in something, such as… oh, a gigantic Hummer with chrome wheels. It’s put together well, it may last about 800 years, you can run over a trash can and never feel it. The paint job is supurb… Would I actually WANT one? No, absolutely not. Useless expensive piece of crap that is an attempt at shoring up some pyschological lack on the part of the owner, in my view. But I can easily see that, FOR WHAT IT IS, it was designed and built well. In other words, “quality”. But I still hate it.

That’s my point, for what it’s worth.

Bye for now. Gotta run to avoid rush hour.

Gesualdo, DUDE WAS HARDCORE.
Tigrismus has been watching Werner Herzog documentaries.

“I married a musicologist” will be the name of my reality show.

So, Beatles ’65 or Mikrophonie II? There can be only one!

Did Beatles ’65 (which came out in 1964) really outsell Rubber Soul? Wow.

Mozart probably would have hated the Beatles.

Beethoven sure the hell woulda, considering they ripped him off.

I haven’t seen the documentary, though, to correct that omission. Any good?

Also, Engelbert Humperdinck: better or worse than Engelbert Humperdinck?

That one’s too easy.

les dear: It’s a line from “The Big Lebowski,” and in any event meant as a non sequitur.

Billboard charts. Stingy bastards don’t give you much though.

Having said that, yeah, Joe Walsh rocked with the James Gang. I saw them twice, once from the third row and while on mescaline. Whoa.

Having said that, I do actually hate the fuckin’ Eagles.

The Fool said,
The comment at 23:44 is not mine.

So you admit all that other horseshit posted here is yours?

RB: Let’s go fly a kite. Up to the highest heights.

So you admit all that other horseshit posted here is yours?

Heh.

Another approach: There is more music being released now than there ever has been. It’s pretty obvious that some of them are going to be better than the John Denver albums The Fool seems to think represent his generation.

Actually I have a graduate degree and a senior position at one of the most high-powered political firms in D.C.. I’m a helluva multitasker and I work at home so when I’m caught up, I head for the guitar room and jam.

Awright!! You go boy!

See, this is when the failure became complete, with no chance of recovery.

MzNicky: No, no, no. Of course, not!

Only some of the horseshit written here is yours.

Also, Fool: This prefix “meta” — I don’t think it means what you think it means, your alleged grad degree notwithstanding.

Dear, stop arguing with those people and come back to bed.

Like I said Mr. handy — mind if I call you Jack? — I didn’t raise the questions, I merely answered them. If you find my awesomeness so totally blinding and feel puny and inadequate by comparison, I apologize. One I again, I beg you, please don’t hate me because I’m beautiful and you’re not.

MzNicky: you’d be quite wrong about that. Look up “metaethics” for an analog.

Like I said Mr. handy — mind if I call you Jack? — I didn’t raise the questions, I merely answered them.

That was super awesome clever with a cherry on top.

If you find my awesomeness so totally blinding and feel puny and inadequate by comparison, I apologize. One I again, I beg you, please don’t hate me because I’m beautiful and you’re not.

There’s no hate coming from me, Bubba. I was just observing the old adage: On the intertoobs, you can’t spell “Fail” without “epeen.”

You haters are all wrong!
They Might Be Giants: the best band in the history of western civilization.
You all have to get your thinking rightwise.
Poopie Cockburn – sounds like a blazing sadles character.

Billboard charts. Stingy bastards don’t give you much though.

The number one song for 1966: The Ballad of the Green Berets. That musical fact puts me into a total freak vibe.

CWD, I’ll drink to that.

please don’t hate me because I’m beautiful and you’re not.

I know! There are so many much better reasons!

Did Beatles ‘65 (which came out in 1964) really outsell Rubber Soul?

Beatles ’65 was pretty good if only because it had “Baby’s in Black” on it. And “I Feel Fine” with I think the first recorded feedback as a song opener.

handy,
Will you drink ridiculously irresponsible amounts of frighteningly strong hooch to that? I know that I will.
Cheers!

I haven’t seen the documentary, though, to correct that omission. Any good?
Good but oblique.
Herzog was not so concerned with documenting or re-enacting scenes from Gesualdo’s life — understandably not, given the absence of actual facts. Instead he followed the groove of “Gesualdo as projective test” and interviewed various weirdos and nutcases in his home town about the myths that have grown up around the guy. Things soon go non-linear.
Some of the scenes are so bizarre that I wondered how much Herzog had staged — like being thrown out of a horseriding-therapy-for-disabled-kids session, where he had intruded in order to ask the psychologist in charge questions about the mental status of a deranged opera singer he had encountered earlier (claiming to be a reincarnation of Gesualdo’s wife). In fact I had to look up Gesualdo to check that the guy really existed, and that the whole documentary was not an elaborate straight-faced Herzovian joke.

Sounds like a mental trip worth taking, SC. I’ll see if I can find it.

All of you are wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Popular music has been a shitpile since John Philip Sousa died.

Popular music has been a shitpile since John Philip Sousa died.
Good point. If Lennon was so good, how come they didn’t name an instrument after him? Eh?

handy: I had to look up your use of e-peen and FAIL since I’m not quite the geek you are. Here’s what the Urban Dictionary says about “FAIL”. I wasn’t sure which definition was the one you were using until I came upon this one:

“A word which has become an instant giveaway for stupid teenage fucks who think they are clever because they say things like “EPIC FAIL” or “YOU FAIL”. Originally, these and other stupid phrases incorporating the word “fail” were given birth within internet cesspots such as 4chan, but they have rapidly found acceptance among the adolescent population as the new, cool thing to say.“

I’m not quite the geek you are.

Hah! This from an admitted dictionary-user.

…how come they didn’t name an instrument after him?

Quite right. But it isn’t an absolute standard – the less said about the Yokophone, the better.

I’d hardly call having a tuba-lite made for wussies who can’t handle the real deal flattering. Sousa was nothing.

I can hardly type it seems
that should read
“I’d hardly call having a tuba-lite made for wussies who can’t handle the real deal named after me flattering”
or something like that

Sousa was nothing.

Take that back, or I will be forced to get a graduate degree, work for a very important Senator, and estimate a 95% likelihood that I can kick your ass.

Sousa my ass. Hello, Stephen Foster?

Hello, Stephen Foster?

Pfaugh. The music of 1850-1860 was spiky-haired punk compared to the glories of 1880-1890.

I was gonna return the favor for the Fool’s repartee, but WordPress ate my post. Which is probably better, all the same, considering it really wasn’t witty or particularly interesting.

So I leave you music snobs with one parting shot: RAWK ON!!!

p.s. No, CWD, I’m a lightweight. You’d drink me under the table in like minute.

Here’s some of what’s on my Ipod:
The Beachboy cover of Deutschland Uber Alles
Wild Man Fischer’s Polka Frenzy!
Fishery Regulation Speeches in the Norwegian Parliament – Greatest Hits
John Ashcroft’s rendition of Working Class Hero and Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner
Mosquitoes buzzing next to your ear – twelve different species
The entire Sun Ra Goes Country Western compilation
Lots of Leonard Nimoy
The Red Army Choir versions of Don’t Bogart That Joint and Ghost Riders in the Sky
Dialtones From Around the World
Le Pétomane’s solo performance of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony
The Yoko Ono / Perry Como sessions

*swoon*

I used to have a large collection of cicada sounds files on an earlier laptop. And Star Trek and Dr Who sound effects.

And Star Trek and Dr Who sound effects.

Quite seriously, I’d love to have something like that, though I don’t know what the hell I’d do with it.

Mosquitoes buzzing next to your ear – twelve different species

Spooky – that’s playing on my stereo right now.

Much better than the beetles.

I just want you all to know that I’ve kept close tabs on this thread today at work and, well, let’s just say I had to change my underwear when I got home.

Additionally I’ve grown weary over the years of the repeated “spewing beverage on the keyboard” meme with regard to encountering overwhelming hilarity. But that is indeed what happened just now, and with a gin and tonic no less. Thanks, Sam from Utah and Snorhagen. Thanks a lot.

You’d be quite wrong about that. Look up “metaethics” for an analog.

No thanks. I prefer digitalized metaethics.

Apparently God was inordinately fond of the Beatles.
No, wait, wrong thread for entymology jokes.

MzNicky said, “I just want you all to know that I’ve kept close tabs on this thread today at work and, well, let’s just say I had to change my underwear when I got home.”

Well, what can I say? Chicks dig me.

SamFromUtah,
Hah! You wish.
I am an expert Mall Ninja. Your graduate degree, senator serving, greatfull dead cover loving kung fu would be no match for my tactical combat prowess.
But speaking of Star trek sound effects:
Vladimir Illych was a great fan of the Theramin
This is some spooky evil coincidence. The thread has come full circle.

Your graduate degree, senator serving, greatfull dead cover loving kung fu would be no match for my tactical combat prowess.

That does it! I’m sending for some doctoral program prospecti, and in 4-10 years your ass is going to be sorry.

Vladimir Illych was a great fan of the Theramin…

Wow – I didn’t know that. It says that Lenin actually took theremin lessons. I can picture him performing this theme song at the opening session of the Comintern to the amazement of his Bolshevik minions.

That book’s universally regarded as a worthless hatchet job. The New York Review of Books wrote Goldman’s background research was either slovenly or nonexistent, and pretty much everyone who knew Lennon seems to agree.

‘zat so?

After my own band’s efforts (early ’70’s, mind you) just barely made it into the bottom of the “top 40”,(geez, that sounds dirty) followed by the inevitable breakup, I found employment for a decade or so being something of a “temp roadie”, filling in for guys that were injured, exhausted or mentally broken down. I ended up working with all kinds of groups and picking up a great deal of music industry gossip (hours of backbreaking work were intercut with complete boredom, so exchanging information was a real “insiders” game akin to Eskimo singing contests).

The place I was based out of was on Bank Street in Greenwich Village, literally across the street from Lennon’s digs at one point. While I’m by no means any authority, the things I heard at the time (which seemed so unlikey that I pretty much ignored them back then) correspond to a lot of what was in Goldman’s book. Yeah, I think some of it is bullshit (like his claim of a long-time affair between Lennon and Epstein) but I heard things about John and Yoko diectly from from some of the very people he quotes in the book. From what I can put together, John was a really fucked-up guy, particularly in his releationship with women and his whole “Peace” thing appears to have been a short-term marketing tool rather than a deeply held belief. I’d love to be proven wrong about that, but I doubt I will be.

Good point. If Lennon was so good, how come they didn’t name an instrument after him? Eh?

What are you talking about, what of the 8-string Lennon-caster? The doubled strings on the metal frame ukelele is a wonder to hear.

Snorhagen said:

…can picture him performing this theme song at the opening session of the Comintern to the amazement of his Bolshevik minions.

Oh my. With Stalin sitting right behind him. Evil.

SamFromUtah,
You’d best watch it. You know that our inevitable final confrontation will occur when you assault my private fortress paid for by my secret government controllers. I will be surrounded by game consoles running Mortal Kombat which will render me well nigh invunerable.
Epic Fail, however defined.

“From what I can put together, John was a really fucked-up guy, particularly in his releationship with women and his whole “Peace” thing appears to have been a short-term marketing tool rather than a deeply held belief.”

What a crock of shit. I suspect that a lot guys — oh I’m guessing around 90% — who had the kind of sexual opportunities John Lennon did would appear to have “fucked up relationships with women”.

And as far as peace, yeah right dude, Lennon talked a good game in public but he was personally weak and in his weak moments he actually attended John Birch Society meetings in secret and made contributions to CREEP.

Let the record reflect that not all people that were in to The Beatles and Stones and Who etc. in the sixties and are of a hippie-ish bent share The Fool (on the Hill)’s disdain for stuff post-1975. Also let the record reflect that despite being a total prog geek (ELP, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Van Der Graaf Generator, Gabriel-era Genesis, pre-80’s Yes) to this day, I was glad punk came along, as the music scene in 1976 blew goat balls. I love The Clash and Dead Kennedys and really got in to the post-punk scene of Echo & The Bunnymen, Joy Division, The Cure and all that and especially their American counterparts like IRS-era REM, the great Husker Du and the SST bands. Later on it was stuff like The Orb, Orbital, Autchere and Future Sound of London and I really went nuts for Goa Trance groups like Astral Projection, Hallucinogen and Oforia. It’s only been in the last couple of years that I’ve stopped seeking out new stuff so relentlessly, though I do like bands like Mastodon and The Mars Volta etc.

European orchestral modernism and 20th century opera are where it’s really at these days, kids, trust me.

You’d best watch it.

Quiet! I’m studying.

Thanks, Sam from Utah and Snorhagen. Thanks a lot.

My first internet spit-take! Many thanks to Snorghagen, my momma, and Elvis.

“Well, what can I say? Chicks dig me

…gravesites all the time, then try to push me in.”

Fixed.

Let the record reflect that not all people that were in to The Beatles and Stones and Who etc. in the sixties and are of a hippie-ish bent share The Fool (on the Hill)’s disdain for stuff post-1975.

I congratulate the not-stupid!

What a crock of shit. I suspect that a lot guys — oh I’m guessing around 90% — who had the kind of sexual opportunities John Lennon did would appear to have “fucked up relationships with women”.

Yeah, well, I knew a lot of them and I can’t think of another one who equated sex with rape. He apparently despised women, save those that he regarded as mother figures.

And as far as peace, yeah right dude, Lennon talked a good game in public but he was personally weak and in his weak moments he actually attended John Birch Society meetings in secret and made contributions to CREEP.

Do you know *anything* about the guy? When he lived on Bank Street, he’d dropped the whole peace and love thing for violent revolution (and I saw virtually every “revolutionary” of the day walking in and out of his doorway). He had a personal history of violence that, when he was out of the public eye, remained a part of his life, right up to the end. I’m not condemning him for that, mind you, but his public image was very carefully cultivated and bore little resemblance to his real life.

To my way of seeing it, he and Yoko were human monsters, quite unlike the saintly picture that has been painted of them, after the fact. I suspect that I’ve got more personal knowledge about what went on there than you do (unless you’ve got some connection to them that you haven’t revealed here?).

Hmm, this was the last CD. I believe I will trash the Joel Phelps song.

Which Way Is Up–Stargard
Nasty Girl–Vanity 6
Cool Change–Little River Band
Seventeen–Ladytron
Forgot To Get High–Damon & Naomi
Haruka Kanata–Asian Kung-Fu Generation
Hallmark–Broken Social Scene
From Up Here–Joel RL Phelps & The Downer Trio
Pubic Enemy–A Tribe Called Quest
Passenger Seat–Death Cab For Cutie
Can’t Cry Anymore–Sheryl Crow
I Just Want to Celebrate–Rare Earth
One Man Guy–Rufus Wainwright
Red–King Crimson
Rock N Roll is a Vicious Game–April Wine
Mindless Child Of Motherhood–The Kinks
Love Me Tonight–Annette Hanshaw
Every Time I Wonder–Monster Movie
Divine–Antony and the Johnsons
The Beer–Kimya Dawson

Quiet! I’m studying

Geek.

Quoth the They Might Be Giants Fan:

Geek.

Geek.

That’s Dr. Geek to you, buddy. Or it will be in a few years.

…and it’s been like decades – did they ever find out if they were giants or not?

I can’t think of another one who equated sex with rape.

Yeah. I guess that’s why he wrote “Woman is the Nigger of the World.” Think about it. Do something about it.

He apparently despised women, save those that he regarded as mother figures.

Which sets him apart from, oh let’s say 90 percent of men, how?

he and Yoko were human monsters

Yes. Which explains that whole “War is Over If You Want It” thing.

Lennon’s peak is the Cold Turkey/Don’t Worry Kyoko single. Raw as shit. Just for the record (pun!) Ono’s Plastic Ono Band album shits all over Lennon’s.

I like Tortoise.

He apparently despised women, save those that he regarded as mother figures.

Which sets him apart from, oh let’s say 90 percent of men, how?

The remaining 10% have a fuck/hate relationship with men.

don’tworry
don’tworry
don’tworry
don’tworry
Mummy’s only looking for her hand in the snow
EEEEEEEEEGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
oOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHeeeeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuu
GGGGGGGGGGGGGWIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
ow!ow!ow!ow!YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYGGLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAA

Yoko rules.

Everybody talks about Public Image Ltd’s debt to Can, but nobody mentions the Yoko Ono influence. Play “Metal Box” and “Plastic Ono Band” back toback sometime.

Snorghagen should do podcasts. That’s one awesome imaginary playlist.

You know, “Whipping Post” is just not that great.

I’m fond of “Melissa” myself.

A much better song. Thanks.

Play “Metal Box” and “Plastic Ono Band” back to back sometime.

No.

Just in case this thread is still going…

Dialtones From Around the World

Ur wish iz mai komand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhCcBTux5f8

I don’t know how to make a link, sorry. Ring, ring, ring ring!

Oh, and please, FSM, let Teh Fool come back and comment on every S, N thread, especially if there’s another Creed one. Teh Fool’s comments are the only thing standing between me and an epic drunk-until-November sitch, and we all know that no pasta gets cooked when I am drunk.

Thx and Ramen.

The Fool has beaten us all up because we didn’t like peace and love so we can’t comment any more.

and it’s been like decades – did they ever find out if they were giants or not?

I think they might be giants, but the jury has been reassigned to a haberdashers corpus case.

Quoth the They Might Be Giants Fan:

Geek.

I know what I am, but what are you? RB, just where do you come down in the Geek Vs. Nerd controversy. Inquiring minds are vaguely interested.

RB, just where do you come down in the Geek Vs. Nerd controversy. Inquiring minds are vaguely interested.

I think Nerds are proactive Geeks, although I understand this doesn’t explain why the living quarters of the latter are strewn with headless chickens.

Yokel pickfest!

First thing I thought was “this kid rocked.”

Second thing I thought was “love those cowboy jackets.”
Third thing I thought was “this is a NAMBLA PSA!”

The whole chicken and the geek went out when freakshows stopped paying well. Once the lifestyle lost its fame, glitz, glamour and groupies the salty gush of chicken blood and the tickle of feathers in the back of the throat lost its appeal. America is poorer for it.
The intertoobz have ruined me.

Third thing I thought was “this is a NAMBLA PSA!”

Yeah, Joe is a little, uh, encouraging.

Still going, eh? I actually did WORK today and couldn’t play.

I see I impressed everyone with my “what is quality” discussion…. *snore*

And thanks loads for the link to Mike, the headless chicken. I had shivers running up and down my back all evening. So, how does a headless chicken actually, uh.. eat or drink anything? I mean, going a couple of years without feed would be a little tough. I had a horrid visual of Mike’s owner with some broth and a funnel.

I’m a little upset that none of you have recognized that my cock is 95% larger than yours, and I last 95% longer in bed than any of you.

Q.E.D.

Call me Mr. 5% then.

And I’m 95% sure my internet persona could kick your internet persona’s ass.

Wikipedia tells all, zeppo.

Gentlewoman-

To embed a link:

<a href=”insert link url here”>write word you want linked here<a/>

Dammit!

I got the backslash in the wrong order for the close tag.

This is how you insert a link.

<a href=”insert link url here”>write word you want linked here</a>

Thanks, tigrismus, although that was only partly a serious question, as I was trying to set up a somewhat lame joke. I actually only looked at the picture and read the first Wiki paragraph. That was enough for me…. I just wanted to post something, as I didn’t get to play today.

I thought you might not be 100% serious, which is why I deleted the text and just told you where it was. Let me just add EW.

zeppo, your idea of quality is “stuff that sucks.” So, color me underwhelmed by your meanderings.

I, on the other hand, will continue to fight the good fight to save all of Western Civilization from the abominations of ’77 by playing the Clash’s eponymous debut LP…

backwards.

“Toir Etihw!”

The Clash? What a load of crapola.

Framptom Comes Alive! That’s what I’m talkin’ about. Quality etched in every petroleum based groove…. Uh, even if there is only a single groove involved. Still, beat that! Ha!

I am obsessed with The Fool and will continue to feel comparatively inadequate and loserish unless I can really nail him. I wasn’t quick witted enough to do it in real time but here’s what I would have said if I had thought it up fast enough yada, yada, yada….

obsessed with

“Entertained by.”

The Clash?

Oh, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet, and that’s not a sly send-up to BTO. Next up, my counter assault on the West Coast movement, starting with the Kennedys’ Fresh Fruit. Then, it’s onto D.C. hardcore. That’s right, Bad Brains. I’m looking at you! Finally, the coup de grâce, the emocore of Fugazi and Sunny Day Real Estate. Decade by decade, city by city, we are taking it back.

For Yoko and John, for Scot MacKenzie and the Haight-Ashbury, for the children, the flower children. Peace, love, out!

That was the funniest part of Cosmic Charley. “I am now listening to the Buzzcocks. They suck.”

I am just so grateful for having found this blog and its primo commenters and the special way they have with sociopaths. That’s all.

I can’t think of another one who equated sex with rape.

Yeah. I guess that’s why he wrote “Woman is the Nigger of the World.” Think about it. Do something about it.

(sigh). Ummm….dude? In his later years, he was so devoid of creativity that he wrote a whole shitload of songs that mirrored *nothing* of his inner self, rather…he simply wrote whatever Yoko was kveching about. Believe it or not (I really don’t give a shit), but his public persona had very little resemblance to his real life.

He apparently despised women, save those that he regarded as mother figures.

Which sets him apart from, oh let’s say 90 percent of men, how?

Well, most of them don’t actually find beating a woman as a form of communication or that sex=rape. BTW, and FWIW, most “motherfuckers” are fairly subtle in their manifestation of this perversion, whereas Lennon was completely over the top pathetic about it. To each his own, I guess…but let’s not pretend that this is normal behavior.

he and Yoko were human monsters

Yes. Which explains that whole “War is Over If You Want It” thing.

Which was pure public relations bullshit, as was the supposed “love” between John and Yoko (which was a sado/masochistic affair devoid of affection). I don’t mind talking to you about this crap but it would be nice if you were informed beyond the PR machinations of Yoko Ono, which were designed to use John’s persona to elevate her in the public eye. Given your responses, its clear that she was successful in pulling the wool over most of the world’s eyes.

Ooooh, I’ve developed a cunning plan that will lay waste to all you snarky littl bastiches. I’m gonna get Creed to do a cover of Imagine! Geez, it’ll be like the convergence of suck. As Dragon-Ling, I’m sure Creed will be pleased to do a command performance. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Also, PENIS

whateverdude:

You are making the age-old mistake of equating the artist with his art. John Lennon could have sucked donkey dicks every night and eaten puppy entrails for breakfast every day of his life for all I care, and “Across the Universe” alone would have mitigated against it.

And also:

Ummm….dude? In his later years, he was so devoid of creativity that he wrote a whole shitload of songs that mirrored *nothing* of his inner self, rather…he simply wrote whatever Yoko was kveching about.

The first thing you’re wrong about in this snippet, and which really is neither here nor there, is that I’m not a dude. The main thing you’re wrong about is that you have no clue, really, now do you, nor could you possibly?, about John Lennon’s “inner self” or what inspired his last works.

If you have original, substantive, verifiable insights into the last years of John Lennon’s private life that might significantly add to his personal biography, I’d suggest you do what most alleged insiders do these days and get them into the archives. Otherwise, your wanking here serves no purpose whatsoever.

Otherwise, your wanking here serves no purpose whatsoever.

Between the 9/11 conspiracy crap and this, I’m getting real tired of whateverdude. The cocksure attitude and tone doesn’t really help.

Douchebag.

The koan of the internet:
Wanking’s got a purpose? I mean other than the obvious.

The reflective geek koan:
Should my wanking have a point? I mean other than the obvious.

The Fool forgot Fugazi.

I mean fugazi

See. Anyone can do it. It just takes low level of reading comprehension.
Poopie

The first thing you’re wrong about in this snippet, and which really is neither here nor there, is that I’m not a dude.

Having watched a screening of “Juno”, I’m informed that it is cool to call females “dude”. Deal with it.

If you have original, substantive, verifiable insights into the last years of John Lennon’s private life that might significantly add to his personal biography, I’d suggest you do what most alleged insiders do these days and get them into the archives. Otherwise, your wanking here serves no purpose whatsoever.

Having spoken at length to a number of folks usually included in the biographies of Lennon, along with a hellovalotta reasonably plausible music industry gossip back in the day (much of which I’ve never seen reported), my opinion is probably better informed than most. That being said, I have no interest in writing a tell-all book on the subject…its depressing enough to have had the impression of my one-time idol shattered as badly as it has been, digging for more would probably leave me planting a shotgun barrel under the base of my jaw.

Between the 9/11 conspiracy crap and this, I’m getting real tired of whateverdude. The cocksure attitude and tone doesn’t really help.

Good grief. You’re the replacement model for the “Simba A”? Musta been a real piece of shit, that one.

digging for more would probably leave me planting a shotgun barrel under the base of my jaw.

Dig, man! Dig!

Dig, man! Dig!

Do me a favor? I don’t mind your playin’ at this shit with me (my armor is goddamn stout), but don’t *ever* try this with anyone else online…….some folks are fragile…and the last thing they need is to have some thoughtless asshole urging them to pull the fuckin’ trigger, ya dig?

Last!

Last!

Sadly, no.

Nice post

I had National Lampoon’s Radio Dinner in high school. That was one of the funniest and politically incorrect album of all times. I thought the best bit on the album was catch it and you keep it. Believe or not Christopher Guest did most of the work on that album. That is one album I wish I still had. They would never release it again, not in the political climate we live in today, very sad indeed.