Ray’s argument is that the use of the N-word is not necessarily racist. And that there are worse things that a person can do than use the N-word. So far, so good. But he then seems to conclude that therefore the use of the N-word is never racist. Huh?

Anyway, I was not familiar with David Allan Coe but there are a couple of songs by other “white” artists that make use of the N-word in what are non-racist ways. Artists need a big canvas, right? I was wondering if David Allan Coe was being unfairly characterized for using a word that Yoko Ono (Woman is the N-word of the World) and Elvis Costello (Oliver’s Army) use in their music to create good art. So I googled and found:

(warning — you don’t really want to go there):
http://www.lyricsdownload.com/david-alan-coe-nigger-fucker-lyrics.html

David Allan Coe is not a racist for using the N-word in the above song. But he clearly is a racist for *how* he used the N-word in the above song.

So now I know who David Allan Coe is.

But who the hell is Mike Adams?

Dr. Mike needs spanky.

Does Mike Adams ever get tired of being such a prick?

He needs a bigger shovel

Must I refrain from talking about a stick so I avoid offending Mike Adams? Must I refrain from talking about a quirk so I avoid offending Mike Adams?

In other words, Ray, you want me to hold white people to a higher standard than black people. That is the view my university takes on a number of issues – including the admission of blacks, the hiring of blacks, and the tenure and promotion of blacks. It is simply a racist view. And, needless to say, I’ll have nothing to do with that kind of racism.

It is this shameless attempt to dictate when and where Mike discriminates that is the burr in his thong. Let no government interfere with Mike’s god-given right to choose the time and manner of keeping the darkie in his place!

“the burr in his thong”.
An image pleasing and revolting at the same time.

Phew. I was going to refrain from calling Doug Giles’ Favorite Stalker a “sophomoric fascist shithead” but since it didn’t sound like anything other than “sophomoric fascist shithead” I knew he wouldn’t be offended.

Exactly what does the use of the word “niggardly” have to do with the David Allan Coe song in question? Adams has constructed a strawman large enough for Lord Summerisle to burn Sergeant Howie alive in…

I am moderately familiar with David Allen Coe. He’s got another song whose tagline is, “If that ain’t country, I’ll kiss your ass.” And he’s got another song called “You Never Even Called Me By My Name,” which proclaims itself to be the World’s Greatest Country Song. I play in a country band, and let me tell you, audiences agree. The previous poster who said Coe is racist for writing that other song would also consider Carroll O’Connor racist for his portrayal of Archie Bunker. It’s an artistic impression, you dolt. All that said, Mike Adams is a scumbag of the worst sort–one who gleefully uses homonyms in order to upset people who dislike racial epithets.

I spent a lot of the seventies bumbling around the south. Mainly staying as far away from family and loved ones as I could. In Texas, David Alan Coe is a GOD. Along with Rusty Wier, Ray Wylie Hubbard, Guy Clark, Willie and Waylon, they formed the core center of the Progressive Country movement. I never thought about him being racist, his songs were in all the jukeboxes, that was as familiar as I ever got. But I think it has to fit into a continuum, with artists using trigger words in art at one end, and racists singing hatred at the other end. It’s got a long history, eminem only a recent example. Is he racist, homophobic and mysoginistic or is it art? How bout 2 Live Crew? Certainly some are easier to call than others, but it’s dificult sometimes, only seeing the product and not ever speaking with the producer of that product, to know what that person believes. If a song offends me, I don’t listen to it. That said, Mike Adams is a Class A Wanker…

mikey

Note to self: “Parsimonious” is the term to use in future.

And: Must I refrain from talking about a stag so I do not offend a fag?

Can anyone enlighten me on what this means? I seem to have misplaced my lavender dictionary.

Adams has constructed a strawman large enough for Lord Summerisle to burn Sergeant Howie alive in…

Why the hell did they do a remake? Christ, I hate Nicholas Cage.

Anyway, yeah–obviously context is everything. I mean, there’s a world of difference between assholes like Adams and, say, Sly Stone or All In the Family. Adams, as usual, is only trying to tear people down–he’s just another bully, only worse, because he’s convinced of his own intelligence.

Hey, did you guys know Adams likes to hunt and drink beer?

Dr Mike Suess Adams:

Do you want fags with your beer?
Do you like to call them queer?

I do not like fags with my beer
Even when I call them queer.

Could you, would you pull the trigger?
Would you, could you call me nigger?
I would not, could not call you nigger
How could you ever figure?

….sorry, I got nothin’

….love The Wicker Man references, though. Did they really do a remake? Bastards. How does one improve on Christopher Lee and Edward Woodward?

“A teacher used the word “niggardlyâ€? in a Wilmington, North Carolina, classroom a few years ago, she was accused of racism by people who didn’t even know the meaning of the word “niggardlyâ€?—”

Here’s a word that needs to die a quiet death. Who even uses it any more? It’s archaic and it’s easier to just use the word “stingy”.

As for Coe, racist? The song is certainly racist, but I don’t think that necessarily makes Coe himself a racist, especially when you know the history of the song and albums in question–context is everything.

Adams, though really is a total wanker as revealed by the three reasons (two rejected) to not use the word nigger. Ultimately he rejects the word not because it is racist nor because his mama disapproves but because he wants people to take him seriously (Mike–can I say Mike without offending lesbians?–, the word nigger is the least of your problem–maybe if you understood such concepts as historical context and how racism fits into that context, people would take you more seriously).

LACP–

I don’t know if this makes you more or less inclined to keep an open mind about it, but it’s not gonna be just some studio hack job. Neil LaBute’s doing it.

Hardly a guarantee of greatness, but at least it’ll have a POV.

The working title is, “Fuck You, You Wicker Twat,” so it’s gonna be, like, vintage LaBute.

Cripes, what a moron. I bet Tallahassee Junior College is sorry they ever gave a doctorate to Prof. Dr. Mike Dr. S. Adams Ph.D.

From the random corrections department, he also spelled “Ciudad” wrong. He’s probably thinking of “Cuidado.”

gjdodger said:
…The previous poster who said Coe is racist for writing that other song would also consider Carroll O’Connor racist for his portrayal of Archie Bunker. It’s an artistic impression, you dolt….
————
Hah! You sir are the dolt. My prior post was satire….”an artistic impression.”

N.B.: Mel Gibson is no anti-semite, either. His recent unfortunate events were “artistic impressions.” He is still in character so he hasn’t yet offered this *real* explanation.

Must I refrain from talking about a dirty mop so I do not offend a dirty wop?

Must I refrain from talking about a filthy bike so I do not offend a filthy kike?

Must I refrain from talking about an ig’nant quacker so I do not offend an ig’nant cracker?

Really now, be sensible.

Thanks, clarke – it doesn’t exactly reassure me, ’cause (a) there’s no reason to make this movie again and (b) most remakes suck. But, if somebody with an interesting POV does it, I’ll reserve my judgement.

I dunno said:

Hah! You sir are the dolt. My prior post was satire….�an artistic impression.�

N.B.: Mel Gibson is no anti-semite, either. His recent unfortunate events were “artistic impressions.� He is still in character so he hasn’t yet offered this *real* explanation.

—
I was wondering when somebody would draw the parallel with Mel Gibson. I will N.B. your addendum, thouugh. Mel Gibson spewing anti-Semitic, drunken ramblings when stopped for intoxication is exactly the same as a recording artist with a vast volume of work who has produced songs mimicking bigoted musings. Noted.

he song is certainly racist, but I don’t think that necessarily makes Coe himself a racist, especially when you know the history of the song and albums in question–context is everything.

Indeed. The song is about his then-drummer’s girlfriend’s ex-husband and told from his perspective. His then-drummer was black, and the girlfriend and the ex was white. It’s a pretty ugly song, but it’s supposed to be. It’s a song about a racist motherfucker bitching because his ex-wife is hosing a black dude. You have no idea how badly something like that would piss off your run-of-the-mill redneck. That album in general isn’t all that good. Most of the songs are fairly lunk-headed, and the whole thing sounds just shitty. The band also sounds shitty. From what I understand, the whole thing was done in the span of 48 hours with the help of massive amounts of cocaine, and it shows. DAC re-released it a few years back because it’d been bootlegged so often, and he figured if he was going to be known for it, he might as well be paid for it.

Coe’s a weird motherfucker all the way around. I interviewed him a few years back, and more than once during the interview he went off on some weird tangents concerning government conspiracies and who was “watching” him (then again, so did Merle Haggard). Someone mentioned “If That Ain’t Country” above, and that’s a kick-ass song. It’s so real, as in that’s really how poor white trash struggle through the world. The line in question is “working like a nigger for my room and board”, with the “nigger work” in question being shit jobs for low pay.

Personally, I don’t know if Coe’s a racist* and if you ask him, he’ll say that he really doesn’t give a shit what anyone thinks. He’s had black girlfriends/wives (apparently including two at once) and bandmates, so take all of it what you will. I’m not defending either the song “Nigger Fucker” nor the use of the word in “If That Ain’t Country”. I just come from a background that helps me at least understand the context perhaps a bit better. I am, admittedly, a fan of the man’s late ’70s Outlaw stuff. The song is pretty foul and the context doesn’t make it any less foul, just hopefully, a bit easier to understand where it’s coming from.

As usual, though, Mike Adams doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about. He sounds like one of those white guys who bitch about not being able to call black folks “niggers” when black folks themselves say it. Frankly, I just wish he’d nut up and say it, cut the bullshit.

* Mind you, you’d be amazed how many white Southern baby boom-era people think regular use of the word “nigger” to describe certain kinds of African-Americans isn’t racist, as long as you don’t say it to their face.

You know, I just waded through the first Prussian Blue post and my eyes bled heavily all night. Now here we are again, calling up the demons that are the illiterate nazi skinheads. Yay!

Anyway, I remember once in the grocery store a black woman was unbelievably irate because a can of black beans had “negroes” on the label (the label was printed in Spanish and English). She pointed this out to her daughter as evidence of racism. My own daughter (who is biracial) asked if it was true. I explained very loudly that “negro” means “black” in Spanish and the label just said “black beans”. I have no idea if the woman heard me- though I was really hoping her daughter did.

As far as music goes, I’m pretty sure that gansta rap is dead. Honestly, most rap now deals with the bling-bling and “ho’s” (no, I don’t approve). “Cop Killa” Ice-T is now playing a cop on t.v. “Gorillas in the Mist” Ice-Cube now stars in family oriented movies. I saw mention of 2-Live Crew in the other thread as well as this one.. I’m amazed that anyone even still remembers them (even if it is for the wrong reasons). They were all about the nasty sex. Maybe you were thinking of NWA?

Personally, I think if you’d be afraid to say “nigger” in a room full of black folks, then you should just erase that word from your vocabulary. It’s only used in relation to stereotypes about blacks, so what’s the point of using it if you’re not racist? (I’m ready for the “but black people use it all the time” argument to come up now. For the record, I don’t allow anyone to use that word around me or my children.)

The guy is from Mississippi, after all. He just don’t know how to act right.

Elvis Costello (Oliver’s Army) use in their music to create good art.

Maybe not such a good example. “Oliver’s Army” is a brilliant song, but there was that incident on the Armed Forces where Elvis, who admitted he was drunk and trying to start shit, called Ray Charles a “blind, ignorant nigger.” My point is, the man had (has?) some issues.

Must I refrain from talking about a bassist so I avoid offending Mike Adams? Must I refrain from talking about a spigot so I avoid offending Mike Adams?

Boyo, Boyo,

Are y’all in the dark about Mr.Coe.

I have bootlegged Coe that must have been recorded at a Klan picnic.

I wound up with it on a download search and dump for

southern redneck music.

Folks, with titles like, send the niggers north, I wish I was a nigger

and he ain’t dead he only smell’s that way , just to start of the

play list.

Its the most shocking compilation of hatred disguised as

happy time music I have yet to sample.

The niggardly use of racial epithets

Wow, Mike, that is such a clever title for your article. I mean, it’s almost as if you’re deliberately trying to ruffle people’s feathers by using the word “niggardly (which, I might add, you use incorrectly and nonsensically), even though you assure us that it does not, etymologically or otherwise, have anything to do with the word “nigger.”

Mind you, you’d be amazed how many white Southern baby boom-era people think regular use of the word “nigger� to describe certain kinds of African-Americans isn’t racist, as long as you don’t say it to their face.

Ain’t just Southern boomers, there’s this guy I know that’s my age (28) and from the South that apparently thinks the same thing. Apparently he doesn’t think ALL African-Americans are, just some, so that’s OK and totally not racist for him to refer to them as niggers.

The guy is from Mississippi, after all. He just don’t know how to act right.

Lord, ain’t that the damn truth.

jscopes,
I don’t know for sure, but what you’re describing may not actually be Coe. There’s a dude from Florida running around calling himself “Johnny Rebel” and recording some flat-out disgusting stuff. Actually, those titles do sound like his stuff rather than DAC’s. I wrote about Johnny Rebel (he never would tell me his real name) years back, and he is totally unrepentant about being a racist dinosaur.

Sjofn,
Yeah, it is pretty common across the board. Most of my high school peers (I’m 31) had a fairly set list of “good versus bad”. Of course, they never said it to any black person’s face. That’s considered tacky.

Matt T,

Maybe so, maybe not. The download had his name on it only.

It was live and included his greatest hits also.

If I am wrong, so be it.

I really have no way of finfing out. What could I do?

Play this crap in public and ask is this DAC?

#

gjdodger said,

I was wondering when somebody would draw the parallel with Mel Gibson. I will N.B. your addendum, thouugh. Mel Gibson spewing anti-Semitic, drunken ramblings when stopped for intoxication is exactly the same as a recording artist with a vast volume of work who has produced songs mimicking bigoted musings. Noted.

—————

really old guy said,

August 6, 2006 at 2:21

Elvis Costello (Oliver’s Army) use in their music to create good art.

Maybe not such a good example. “Oliver’s Armyâ€? is a brilliant song, but there was that incident on the Armed Forces where Elvis, who admitted he was drunk and trying to start shit, ….

—————

Fair enough. I suppose art is in the eye of the beholder. Here are some links (warning: not work safe lyrics) — judge for yourself:

Two by DAC:
http://www.lyricsandsongs.com/song/200649.html
http://www.lyricsandsongs.com/song/250101.html

Elvis Costello:
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/SongUnid/10B0BB2F9597FDE9482568AF00206026

Yoko:
http://www.bagism.com/lyrics/some-time-nyc-lyrics.html

Sexy Sadie, maybe he used the word correctly-he could mean we’re not allowed to use racials slurs as much as we should. A stupid suggestion, but hey, this is Mike Adams, Ph. D.I.C.K. we’re talking about.

Floyd Flanders said,

As for Coe, racist? The song is certainly racist, but I don’t think that necessarily makes Coe himself a racist, especially when you know the history of the song and albums in question–context is everything.
——-
He wrote the songs. He performed the songs. If the song is “certainly racist” then he engaged in racist behavior. Any context that would exonerate him would also exonerate the song.

Jscopes, Johnny Rebel tracks are often misattributed to Coe.

‘Move the Niggers North,’ and ‘Some Niggers Never Die (They Just Smell That Way)’ are Johnny Rebel tracks from 1966 — originally single A- and B-sides, I think, but also on the For Segregationists Only album.

The ‘Johnny Rebel’ project had at least two lead singers, one of whom sounds a lot more like Coe than the other. ‘Some Niggers Never Die’ has the higher-voiced Clifford Trahan, who was also the songwriter.

there’s another song you are all (y’all) are forgetting;

http://www.lyricskeeper.com/david_alan_coe-lyrics/212975-nigger_hatin_me-lyrics.htm

He wrote the songs. He performed the songs. If the song is “certainly racist� then he engaged in racist behavior. Any context that would exonerate him would also exonerate the song.

Perhaps. Would you call Joseph Conrad or Mark Twain racist because they wrote about racist characters and racist societies? How about Faulkner, since he wrote about a culture that was basically front-to-back racist (and, in fact, considered racism one of the reason the South had fallen into such disrepair post-Reconstruction)? What about modern art, for example, Warren Ellis’ “Preacher”, which was full of racist (and, usually, loathesome, as well) characters?

Of the two DAC songs you linked (and one TomMil linked), “Nigger Hatin’ Me” is a Johnny Rebel song misattributed to Coe. Thematically, they’re different (Coe’s song kicks off with a lament that the character’s ex found a man with a bigger wang). The problem, of course, is that no matter what Coe’s intent, most folks are gonna see it as a racist song, either because of the subject matter or because, frankly, there’s absolutely no shortage of people in this country that are racist as hell.

There’s no shortage of them that count themselves as fans of country music, as well, and Nashville’s always had a funny relationship with African-Americans. Off the top of my head, I can only think of five black country singers – Charley Pride, Stoney Edwards, Deford Bailey, O.B. McClinton and Cleve Francis. Bailey, a harmonica player was one of the originals stars of the Grand Ole Opry, and Charley Pride was one of the biggest country stars of the ’60s and ’70s. McClinton was a survivor from the basic death of Southern/Memphis soul in the ’70s (that didn’t go to the Jackson-based Maleco label, anyway) and Francis put out a couple pretty good countrypolitain records in the early ’90s (sounds sorta like Hal Ketchum, a vocalist that really had nowhere else to go but country). I’ve only met one black female country singer, and I can’t thing of any that any sort of impact on country music as a whole.

Which is unsettling, of course, considering the massive impact African-American music had on country music. Hank Williams and Jimmie Rodgers both owe a great deal to black street and minstel singers, and to my ear, the best country of the mid-to-late ’70s and early ’80s was based on Memphis soul (Charlie Rich, for one example). It goes both ways, of course, and most of your Southern soul that ain’t a gospel trip takes a lot from the country music of the time (which goes to figure, since guys like Otis Redding and Arthur Alexander were country as hell). Furthermore, the backing groups at Stax and Hi Records (Al Green’s place) were mixed basically up until Dr. King was assasinated. If that don’t tell you something, I don’t know what will.

I forget the title and I’m too lazy to look it up, but there’s a very good three-disc set called something like “The Black Experience In Nashville”. Like most things, American pop music has an “agreed upon” history that ignores certain actuallities in favor of a good narrative (i.e., rock & roll all but disappeared between Elvis going into the Army and the Beatles debut). Even during the British Invasion and San Francisco psychedalia wave, you’re average redneck either listened to country music or Southern soul (or that weird blend that came out of guys like Doug Sahm, Wayne Cochran, Tony Joe White and Jumpin’ Gene Simmons*). Hell, Solomon Burke played Klan rallies (yes, plural). That music and that time in that place rarely gets mentioned in histories of pop music, which I think is a damn shame.

Regardless, it’s important to know the facts of all this, who sang what and the story behind the songs. Personally, I think it’s cute for Coe to put out such a loaded song and still get all huffy about being connected to the Johnny Rebel thing, which he does, believe you me. You have to be aware of things like that and there’s really no excuse. I’ve rambled on long enough, but ask me sometime the weirdos the Drive-By Truckers started pulling after Southern Rock Opera. A whole lot of people are awful surprised the band aren’t card-carrying members of the Klan.

* Not the Kiss guy, mind.

that’ll teach me to trust the internets.

I’ve lived my entire 38 years in the south. 98% of the people I know (male and female) say nigger at least 20 times a day. If every black were shipped back to Africa, crime rate would drop 75% in the good ol USA.

Dear stupid: this post is four years old and so are you.

We have the Black Entertainment Network, Black History month, Miss Black USA, Hollywood Black Awards, the NAACP ETC. ETC. Now imagine if all the word ‘White’ were replaced in any of these, there would be rioting in the streets. Reverse Discrimination at its finest.

Substance, if it’s 4 years old, what the hell are u doin here? Fuckin nigger lover.

One of the 1st words my son learned to say and I’m DAMN proud of it.