Or at the very least, they had the good taste to tell the government to bomb someone in private.

Maybe the President can direct me to the Beatitude that says, “Blessed are the bomb-droppers, for they shall have record third-quarter profits.”

What kills me is that his argument is completely effing wrong. It’d be one thing if he were making a totally amoral argument. But he’s making a totally amoral argument that ISN’T EVEN FACTUALLY CORRECT.

Holy shit. I thought you made that up. What’s worse, that’s not even the weirdest/stupidest/creepiest part of that story.

As a former equity trader, I can tell you this sort of thinking has been around forever, but especially since the boom in the late 90’s, while Clinton was President. There was this notion with some people, well some stupid people, that if a Republican president were in office, the market would really be kicking ass because of all those conservative policies.

Then Bush came in, the market went down, and these stupid people blamed Al Gore for taking too long to give up. Then Sept. 11th hit, and they said the market would only go up if we caught Osama. Then they said the market would only go up if we went to war in Iraq. Now it’s Iran.

There are just too many people on TV today. People giving stock advice on TV should be really smart and good at it. But those people are almost never on because why the fuck should they share their good information with the rubes watching fox? As a result, most of the investment people on a network like fox are at best mediocre, and at worst pump-and-dump artists like this loser.

I think it’s not just that he’s cheering on the bombing of Iran, but that he obviously figures that as long as the Dow is going up, everything else pretty much doesn’t matter.

He’s right, you know. Nothing could possibly be better for the stock market than an attack on Iran. They’d never think to retalliate in any way – such as skinking some ships in the mouth of the Persian Gulf, disrupting the shipments of 20 of the world oil supply.

Hopefully he’ll catch terminal boneitis.

Factually Incorrect Argument + Amorality + complete ignorance of real world implications of the first two terms = Standard Republican Talking Point.

I do wonder though if it isn’t Hitler’s big lie principle sticking through here though. The more factually incorrect the argument, the more amoral it is, and the more they scorn “the left” for daring to point out that lives are hanging in the balance, the more likely they hope it is accepted.

Of course, once they go and bomb Iran, Oil doubles in price, Gas goes to $8 a gallon, the Entire Middle East is in Flames, and there are massive casualties (both civilian and military), people like Jonathan will parade on TV as talking heads and go “No one could have imagined oil tankers being sunk in the straight of Hormuz” or “War isn’t pretty and things do go wrong.”

From the book War Is A Racket by Smedley Butler.

Only the other day, Il Duce in “International Conciliation,” the publication of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said:

“And above all, Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace… War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the people who have the courage to meet it.”

When you consider the right-wing’s belief in free market “populism”, globalization, and the Corporation combined with their concerted effort to destroy democracy, liberalism and virtually every aspect of the American government that would benefit “average Americans” in favor of the war machine and the redistribution of the nations wealth toward the ultra wealthy and multinational corporations it is apparent that what we are dealing with here are Fascists. In a slightly different form perhaps, but fascists none the less. It really is that simple.

Does any sane person seriously listen to a guy who looks like Mr. Peepers? Unless they’re FOX viewers of course…

Hmm, Jonathan’s greatest hits:

“If I had my way, you’d bring him (Moussaoui) out back, put a bullet in his head, and toss him in the dumpster,” Hoenig said, adding, “This is an evil monster and I just don’t see how society can prosper or the economy can prosper, if this guy lives.”

Booyah!

this guy used to have a segment on fox news in chicago, called (what are the odds) the capitalist pig. (i think it was him, sure looked like him at least). they ran endless ads for it, with johnny’s face all up in the camera while he spouted his gordon gekko nonsense. just a big scary ad full of hair, teeth, and nose. so annoying.

These are the guys with the “get rich Enron style” mentality. They encourage everyone else to buy stocks so that they can sell when the price goes up and screw others over.

What a sweetheart:

Middle school offered a perfect introduction to commodities and markets for Jonathan Hoenig, a fledgling wheeler-dealer who hoarded pens for resale to fellow students caught without one during a test.

“I might get a quarter for one if it was desperately needed,” he recalls.

Shit! All this time I’ve been misreading it. I thought they said “family values” and now I see it is “financial values”. These people make me ashamed to be an American citizen but proud to be atheist.

Jeremias- LOL. That’s beautiful. An asshole since middle school.

These are the guys with the “get rich Enron style� mentality.

Exactly. I mean, it’s not hard for anyone with a brain to see that all the policies of the bush administration, from tax policy to corporate welfare to foreign intervention to deficit spending are all good for short-term wealth creation (for at least certain segments of the economy) and have disasterous longer-term consequences. The administration HAS to know that. The congress HAS to know that. Hell, even the corporate heads and board members that are enriching themselves at the trough have children and grandchildren. I cannot believe that they are somehow finding a way to believe that any of this is at all sustainable. They have turned the future over to China, India, Japan, Europe and even Russia. It is this understanding of the consequences of their actions that make them so truly evil…

mikey

*Let’s Have A War* by Fear

Let’s have a War
So you can all Die.
Let’s Have a War
We can all use our Brains.
Let’s Have a War
Redeem this space.
Let’s have a War
We have this place.

Let’s have a War
Jack up the Dow Jones
Let’s have a War
We can save New Jersey
Let’s have a War
Blame it on the Middle Class
Let’s have a War
Like rats in a cage.

Let’s have a War
Sell the rights to the networks
Let’s have a War
Nevermind about that last time.
Let’s have a War
Give life a little twist.
Let’s have a War
The Enemy’s Within..

From the “Ayn Rand” in Wikipedia:

The express goal of Rand’s fiction was to showcase the idealized Randian hero,[2] a man whose ability and independence causes conflict with society, who nevertheless perseveres to achieve his goals.

Huh. Fiction. Wonder what “fiction” means…

Most of the Randians I’ve met are spoiled suburban pricks who think that their fortune of being born into a wealthy family is a sign of their personal virtue. They also have the charming characteristic of viewing anyone who is working-class as lazy scum.

Normally, when someone mentions their love of Ayn Rand to me, that’s the cue to start backing away slowly.

In other news, Brad, I dropped a link to a Boston Radiohead show in the other thread. Not sure if it’s the one you already have, but it’s brilliant.

“This is an evil monster and I just don’t see how society can prosper or the economy can prosper, if this guy lives.�

He’s right, ya k now. I was all set to buy a brand new high definition television until they gave Moussaoui life in prison. I suddenly lost any interest I had in spending large sums of money.

Not that I’m complaining, but is it national holiday week for irredeemable trolls? None of the usual suspects really. Or are they all stalking Kos in Vegas?

I’ve been in companies driven by these kinds of short-sighted, blinder-wearing guys: focused on this quarter’s profits only, long term health and development don’t matter, do anything to tick the stock price up 2%, etc. I’ve seen salesmen sell a large fiber optic network system at a 15 to 20% loss and then get their commisions and bonuses on the value (not the profit) of the sale because the CEO wanted a system in that particular market for a press release. They would sell shit we didn’t have and couldn’t build, forcing our entire engineering department to drop everything and rework last year’s product to fufill a contract. (One guy in particular told me–actual quote–“I don’t care about details like part numbers: I’m selling a story.” That’s nice, genius. I have to ship part numbers. And I can’t ship ’em if they don’t fricking exist!) The cost of the rework was never counted against the sale (or if it was, the salesman never had to refund his commission!), and management was blind to effects on the schedule. Next quarter, when we lost business because the promised product was late, they couldn’t connect the dots and see that the crap they pulled last quarter was the direct cause of the shit storm we faced this quarter.

These people live in a world where
–there are no negative consequences to anything
–no action has any long term effects (good or bad)
–the only thing that matters is this quarter’s stockholder report (e.g. the “poll numbers”)
–looking good is more important than actually being good
–lying is always better than telling the truth
–you sell people on your “vision” and don’t worry whether you can actually make anything happen
–you cash out your stock options quickly and leave the other poor schmucks to clean up the mess
–they regularly get bonuses for “cutting expenses”–by canning half of the people who actually do the work

Yes, this is the half-assed MBA system of corporate management. And when all these people crowed about how Bush would be great because he was an MBA and would be a “CEO President”, I cringed. MBA’s are a great addition to the skillset for someone who knows how to run the pits and turn the dials and actually do the shit that needs to be done. For the trust fund babies, though, all an MBA does is further isolate them from the real world and convince them that the annual report or the analyst’s summary is all that matters.

(I no longer work at one of these shitholes. I get paid less and I work longer hours, but at least I don’t have bite my tongue bloody in meetings so I don’t slap the CEO’s kid–our US sales manager, go fig–and shriek, “What kind of crack are you smoking, you idiot?”

Shit Brad, sometimes an Ownership Society just has to blow other people’s stuff up.

…who hoarded pens for resale to fellow students caught without one during a test.

Hoarded? Why do I have a feeling this is Enron style marketeering, and he’s the guy going around picking up “loose” pens in the first place? Not only did I never go to class without a pen (and I was stoned or drunk, hardly a model of efficiency and organization), I don’t recall more than a few occasions where people in my class didn’t have one for a test (and that was usually because their pen had run out of ink unexpectedly).

There’s a troll on another blog who likes to make the point that people are poor because they rent, since that’s just throwing their money away, and if they had any sense, they’d buy.

You have to love that kind of All Decisions Are Made In A Vacuum thinking. If circumstances were ideal, there wouldn’t be a problem in the first place.
Said troll cannot fathom that not only are there people who cannot scrape together a down payment to buy a house, but some who cannot scrape together a deposit on an apartment, either, and end up living in “residential” hotels. He thinks those people are *incredibly* irresponsible, as they not only pay a shitload of money for shelter, but are too shortsighted to realize that if they had a house they could cook their own meals and save money.

See? If you’re poor, it’s just because you’re doing it wrong. After all, Britney Spears has no talent or job skills, and *she’s* rich. Why the hell aren’t you?

Normally, when someone mentions their love of Ayn Rand to me, that’s the cue to start backing away slowly.

I had a huge crush on someone, then I found out that one of his “Top 5” favorite books was some sludgefest by Ayn Rand.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d still do him, but my feelings are just not the same.

he was an MBA and would be a “CEO President�

And that’s exactly the problem. All these fools are running the government like it’s a shitty company.

How come these followers of Rand are always, I mean without fail, some kind of corporate drone apologist who claim that knuckling under to authority represents in some unclear way, a rebellion against oppression of the masses of ignoble savages, and who also never hold any significant ability or value of their own?

I mean, I’ve read a couple of Rand’s books, and these guys always seem to be the kind she’s railing against, not the hero.

I mean, I’ve read a couple of Rand’s books, and these guys always seem to be the kind she’s railing against, not the hero.

Is that sort of like how the right-wing evangelicals always seem to do the opposite of what Jesus would?

What kind of a financial advisor uses *PayPal*?!

Okay, okay. The question answers itself. But it’s still worth asking.

Hey Bob Nigh,
Song here. It’s enfolded in a crap sci-fi fan video, but one can tune out the visuals (audio is harder to embed)

hmmm, unprovoked bombing of an other country…murder – it just makes perfect sense that those things would help the economy prosper. He doesn’t need a logical argument, and facts and stuff ot back it up.

shorter eternal Capitalistpig: “If you want to see the Dow Jones go up and help the economy prosper, just [insert amoral and ridiculously stupid act here].”

Gavin M,
The line “Jack up the Dow Jones!” was the part I remembered from “Repo Man” soundtrack. It just seemed to fit this uberwanker Hoenig’s philosophy so well.

“…hoarded pens for resale to fellow students caught without one during a test.”

This just totally blows my mind. I simply can’t imagine having that kind of mindset.

Using the pen thing as an analogy — I’m the kind of person who has always carried around extra pens (or whatever) just in case some fellow human being might need one. If I come across someone desperately in need of something I have, it has always been my pleasure to be in a position to supply their need.

Like at work; if someone in my office complains of having a headache, I’ll always offer that person a couple of Tylenol out the stash I always have in my purse — it would never occur to me in a million years to demand that they *pay* me for it!

And the pens (or whatever) I distribute will always be MY pens, acquired honestly — not pens *lifted* from someone else’s unguarded desk (as D. Sidhe so astutely suggested above).

I guess this is part of what makes me a lifelong lefty/liberal. I have no instinctive desire to profit from someone else’s misfortune. My instinct is quite the opposite: if there is a need and I’m in a position to help out, I give what I have gladly. It just seems like the ethical, decent human thing to do.

Must be the way I was brought up by my honest hard-working liberal parents — never lie, never cheat, never steal and always share. I’d really like to hear from the right wing why these liberal values are so “evil”.

sw

It used to be that people like this were consigned to begging for food on street corners.

Sadly, No. I believe ones that wacko were usually consigned to rubber rooms. And for good reason.

Rand sounds so good, so long as you don;t stop to think… or listen to what you’re saying.

I too had a Rand phase, short but painful to recall.

I too once lost faith in humanity. It was under the sofa.

that must have been a big sofa

I never had much.

Oddly enough, I began my Randy phase on that very same sofa.

Yeeg- I despise Rand.
As much as Marx makes me roll my eyes sometimes, at least he makes some legitimate points while advocating stuff that would theorectically help people (same with Adam Smith, actually– not that I think either’s system would work terribly well if put into practice, of course). Rand’s stuff doesn’t even bother with an ethic that would at even theoreticlly help people– it’s all about Numba One, and fuck the rest of them bitchez!1!!!11!!

“Gavin adds: Know who else is a Randroid?”

Neil Peart?

Say what you will about Ayn Rand, she brought us some great prog-rock.

“Ayn Rand is the greatest human being who has ever lived. Atlas Shrugged is the greatest human achievement in the history of the world. Ayn Rand, by virtue of her philosophical genius, is the supreme arbiter of any issue pertaining to what is rational, moral, or appropriate to man’s life on earth.�

that explains a lot about the actions of the Fed over the past so many years. i have to give him one thing though.. atlas shrugged is indeed the greatest human achievement in the history of the world ……. in the field of BORING!!

“She didn’t know anyone else very well who was a businessman.”

that says a whole lot now, doesn’t it?

I mean, I’ve read a couple of Rand’s books, and these guys always seem to be the kind she’s railing against, not the hero.

I was something of a Randian back when I was in junior high school, though I outgrew it before I went away to college. She was the first person in my life that said it was OK to be an atheist, and for that I am grateful. I’m 53 now, and I’ve been meaning for a while to go back and read some of her books, but I’m afraid of what I’ll find. 🙂

Even so, what the modern-day neo-con and neo-fascist “Randians” believe in bears little resemblance to what I remember of Rand. Rand was vehemently anti-totalitarian, really a libertarian more than anything else. To listen to neo-con fascists cite her as an authority is something like listening to Dobson quote Jesus as a justification for war. I imagine if Rand were alive today, she’d give an earful to idiots like Hoening and Pammy over at Atlas Pukes.

” but I’m afraid of what I’ll find.”

Read the entire Dictionary, but do so in a Esparanto language version, so that any information that may be contained therein is utterly pointless, but the utter lack of anything that might be interesting or useful or good still remains. That’s as close as it comes to Rand’s prose or “prose” (in scare quotes) as it is more appropriately referred to.

I think anyone that is able to think (or picks up a big Ayn Rand book first, not some teeny thing like Anthem) is initially appreciative. Then it goes on and on and on and on and on, or you just get a little older and think a little bit more and that phase is over.

Randism (Randianism?) –> Economic Asperger’s?