I lived on the battlefield for a while and I was in a stituation where information from the captors was paramount to the survival of my friends. Their information could save tens, hundreds, etc. of lifes.

Don ‘t ge me wrong, I don’t condone Asnswitch or such, but I do believe if your child’s life could be impacted by information gleaned from captors; you would be less pious in your thoughts. I agree, to aspire to impecable behaviotr is a just cause of government; but practically, information that decreases the loss of life for your cuase (family and friends) is important.

Go on, philosiphise, that is until you are asked to bear arms to protect youir life and whatever cause is important to survival of your loved ones. Your attitudes and behaviors would change with the situation…to excuse the informaiton taht captors could provide is to waste the life of youir friends..

Hey, you know it’s fucking NEWSWEAK and that’s why I haven’t read it in 30 years!

and the chinese called it “water torture” not “waterboarding”

Questions?

And no, it doesn’t require torture, just conversational gambits and good research. You work them into a corner where their only avenue of escape is admission, or outright denial of the facts. The first option gets consideration, and the latter adds false testimony to the rest of their litany of wrongdoing.

Wait a minute, I think I know which direction the maladministration took, as well as their supporters…

Our President is a war criminal. Period.

Just 5 short years ago, Saddam Husseins use of torture, and the postulated existence of his so called ‘torture centers’ was given as a reason to invade. The premise being that torture was so horrifying, despicable and evil that application of extreme and immediate force was necessary to stop it.

A little while later, Bush pounds the podium with his fist and glares at the crowd and says ‘The US does not torture!’. Since torture is after all something pretty bad.

Then a bit later the Abu Ghraib photos are released, and we have the mock trials of the ‘offenders’, a judge says ‘naughty naughty’ and ‘tsk tsk’. The commanders and visiting CIA interrogator agents at the facility are unpunished, and darker more evil allegations like US troops ordered to rape children to coerce the parents of the children slowly fade from memory. Surely not the wonderful US would stoop so low? Liberal lies at work, they hate our freedom!

A bit later and we have wistful republican senators musing how useful torture would be to get information from terrorist suspects.. just as a hypothetical. Its used to save American lives, so whats the harm? Shows like 24 promotes a kinder, more Hollywood-glamorous view of torture, it sure seems good to me!

Later again, and people who denounce torture are called ‘traitors’ who want the terrorists to win. Torture is promoted as a patriotic initiative that every true American loves, since its essential to win the war on terror and stop the ever-present threat of mushroom clouds over US cities.

And here we are in the world of today, where Bush casually drops the line “I can abduct any American at any time and torture you to death in secret”, to be greeted with wild applause in Congress, the Supreme Court, and in mainstream broadcast media. We all love torture so much, when they come to take away our children in the dead of night be sure to wave and cheer our valiant ever vigilant police force, they are here for our protection, and are true heroes!

Holy fucking crap.

Brad, as a fellow WASP I have to say: You’re English ancestors are NOT inbred.

I like what rollingmyeyes writes above. I would point out that it was Ford who brought Rumsfeld and Cheney into high profile positions, a payoff to Rumsfeld for leading the charge to make Ford House minority leader.

JT
http://www.Ultimate-Anonymity.com

Wow, that’s scary. It’s so different from the last 28 years, I don’t know how we would stand it.

I think that they are going to have to do better than that.

It’s incredibly important that these evildoers be brought to justice and not just because it’d make us feel better.

There’s ample evidence to suggest they’ve been working against the interests of the American people. They’ve worked in concert with nefarious characters who are on our terrorist watch lists like many in Maliki’s government in Iraq and let’s not forget Ahmed Chalibi who is accused of giving highly classified information to Iran. Under their watch billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of weapons have gone missing in Iraq, much of it suspected to have fallen into the hands of enemy insurgents, possibly even Al Qaeda.

And that’s just Iraq. It doesn’t take much imagination to suspect what they’ve been up to behind the scenes and will be with nationals of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

Once out of office Bush and Cheney will be looking to cash in for all those favors they’ve doled out to their cronies, many of them overseas.

They also very well may be interested in hamstringing President Obama with backroom deals amounting to treason.

There’s plenty of reason to suspect Reagan’s people, Bush’s father included, had a hand in prompting Iran to declare the weekend before our election in 1980 that they’d be willing to release our hostages only to leave Carter twisting in the wind. Releasing those hostages the day Reagan took office and his subsequent admission of trading of arms for other hostages in the Iran-Contra scandal seem to be more than just unlikely coincidences. It’s where the phrase “October Surprise” originated.

Further back in history we have Henry Kissinger and Madame Chiang Kai-shek doing Richard Nixon’s bidding whispering in the ears of the South Vietnamese negotiators at the Paris Peace Talks in 1968 to reject the peace treaty LBJ put together to end the Vietnam War shortly before our election. Nixon promised them a better deal if he was elected.

Neocons of Cheney’s ilk are likely to undermine an Obama administration that has pledged to take American foriegn policy in a different direction from their radical empire model. They are not the kind to just pen whiny op-eds for the WaPo if they can sabotage major initiatives covertly, especially Cheney.

In short, they won’t be morphing into choir boys, leopards don’t change their spots. They also can’t very well do without modern communications.

This surveillance shouldn’t be conducted with just an eye to avenge past wrongs. Bush could wave his magic pardon wand excusing all in his administration for crimes they don’t even admit are crimes and haven’t even been indicted for before leaving office obviating that path anyway. The more serious concern in any case is the ongoing danger to not just the Obama administration but to the Republic they pose. Does anybody think they wouldn’t try to subvert a Palestinian-Israeli peace agreement, a transition out of Iraq or a Iranian nuclear deal?

The new AG can use the new FISA law we find so sour and make lemonade if he or she is able to finally indict, convict and imprison Bush and/or Cheney. I don’t much care if they get them on the worst war crimes charges or just petty graft as long as they get them.

There will be several benefits to this. Our standing in the world will rise immediately. President Obama’s approval ratings here at home will soar. If the MSM clutches it’s pearls and shrieks it will only serve to marginalize them further. Sleazeballs like Curt Weldon and his arms dealings may garner the attention he deserves and earn himself a prison sentence. Most of the Republican party (and not a few Dems too) gulping at the thought of what wiretaps could reveal about them will swing 180 degrees and adopt Ron Paul and Bob Barr language when discussing the 4th amendment.

In the end if Bush and/or Cheney are prosecuted using the new FISA law then in an irony of ironies, you can expect congress to quickly see the “error of their ways” and move to restrict it’s use very quickly.

It’s a win/win and makes for a sweet drink from a very sour fruit.

-Brad]