May
29

Best Bitch Slap EVAR




Posted at 8:08 by D. Aristophanes

Even Malkin has given up on Auschwitzgate, but Dan Riehl and his band of desperados soldier on:

Okay, so we have supposedly learned that it was Obama’s Great Uncle that liberated a sub-section of Buchenwald, not an uncle at Auschwitz. But if sources are correct and unless there’s some arcane military history in his favor, Obama still has a problem.

Apparently, Dan-o couldn’t figure out the great uncle’s middle initial, so that must mean he doesn’t exist. The word went out: KERNERS ARE GO!

Riehl compadre Steve Gilbert of Sweetness & Light did some digging and discovered a website dedicated to preserving the history of the 89th Infantry Division of World War II, the division in which Obama’s great uncle served and helped liberate the Ohrdruf satellite of the Buchenwald concentration camp. Seeking to get to the bottom of a mystery that had been solved hours earlier, Gilbert dutifully fired off an email to the site’s owners, Ray and Mark Kitchell, thus setting up the greatest bitch slap in history:

 

—– Original Message —–
From: Steve Gilbert
To: markkitchell@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:14 AM
Subject: Any Record Of Charles W Payne?

Mr. Kitchell,

As you may have heard by now, Barack Obama has claimed that his great uncle Charlie Payne was a member of the 89th Div that liberated Buchenwald.

According to records his full name is either Charles W Payne or Charles T Payne (most likely the former), and he was born in 1924 — and he is still alive today.

He most likely was from Kansas at the time of enlistment.

Do you have any record of this gentleman?

Thank you,

Steve Gilbert
sweetness-light.com

PS – If you go to my website, you will see that I was probably the first to note the error in Mr. Obama’s first claims about his “uncle.”

Obama Claims His Uncle Liberated Auschwitz | Sweetness & Light
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obama-claims-his-uncle-liberated-auschwitz

The reply was quick and to the point:

Please crawl back under the rock you came out from.

Good day

Raymond Kitchell, veteran 89th Inf Div

267 Comments »

  1. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:14

    That was worth staying up for.

  2. Thers said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:15

    For the first time maybe ever, I feel Hope…

  3. Gabriel Ratchet said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:18

    That’s gonna leave a mark.

    I hope.

  4. Gundamhead said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:22

    I bet this Kitchell character is one of those phony soldiers Rush was warning us about. Let’s see his flag pin.

  5. shaun said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:24

    Dunkin’ Donuts should hire Raymond for their PR department.

  6. TRex said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:25

    Oh, my god, that’s so beautiful. It brings a tear to my eye.

  7. RandomObserver said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:25

    Awesome.

  8. noen said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:27

    Bush ‘plans Iran air strike by August’

    “The George W Bush administration plans to launch an air strike against Iran within the next two months, an informed source tells Asia Times Online, echoing other reports that have surfaced in the media in the United States recently.

    Two key US senators briefed on the attack planned to go public with their opposition to the move, according to the source, but their projected New York Times op-ed piece has yet to appear.”

    Thought y’all might like to know. Stock up on ramen noodles.

  9. Some Guy said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:30

    Mr. Kitchell just earned himself a round of whatever it may be that he drinks. Goddamn, that’s beautiful.

  10. Oregon Guy said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:32

    That website is pure grade-a 100% chickenhawk.

    Quotes like “He took a camera with him into combat?” Just show how stupid and unconnected with the military these jackasses are. Cheap portable cameras were just coming onto the market thanks to Kodak and many soldiers took them along.

    This is nothing different than any other war – right down to the current conflict which is full of GI photos being snapped onto digital cameras and cellphones.

  11. Dover Bitch said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:36

    Bravo, greatest generation.

  12. D. Aristophanes said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:39

    The ‘good day’ really puts it over the top, doesn’t it?

  13. Jarry Lohnson said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:42

    So… the 89th division are now cult-aid drinking Obamabots, too!

    Maybe Obama’s great uncle did liberate Buchenwald, but now Obama is raising the spectre of sending the FL & MI delegations there instead of Denver.

    -Jarry Lohnson

  14. D. Aristophanes said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:44

    That comment thread has some good ones, too. Like this:

    “However one commentor at another site has found an army name match for Payne but the birth year is off by a few and it is from a DC database rather than the Kansas history.”

    I have searched the NARAL report using every possible combination. Using Charlie, using Kansas, using W, using 1924.

    And none of them turn up anyone who fits the Obama great uncle.

    Granted the enlistment records are said to be missing as much as 13% of the inductees, due to key punch card malfunctions.

    But what are the odds that Obama’s great uncle’s records would be missing?

    Um, the odds you just fucking stated in the previous sentence, moron? (The records, of course, are NOT missing, but this is the sort of wingnut stupidity that makes life worth living.)

  15. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:45

    The sweetness&light page has been updated. Apparently the guys there liked the taste so much, they asked for some more. Note the use of scare quotes in the page title. Also, the intrepid S&L correspondant dispatched to bravely write an email to a veteran of a war that ended half a century ago, is named Cigarskunk. Tell me that’s not worthy of notice.

    Their argument now, verification by someone who was there at the time isn’t sufficient since there is no proof provided. Also, the interwebs catalog of names for people born in 1924 shows a different middle initial. Therefore Obama is muslim. QED

  16. Auguste said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:45

    Jeebus, those people are sick. The guy was actually at Ohrduf, and they call him a “Sheehanite” and opine that he “was probably as big an asshole then as he is now…in the rear with the gear hiding behind a rock with a white flag in his back pocket “just in case”!”

    Unbelieved.

  17. Ted said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:46

    Sometimes it takes a WWII vet to truly handle a Swiftboating wingnut.

  18. D. Aristophanes said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:46

    Dig the holes you’re already in deeper much, Jarry Lohnson?

  19. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:47

    Note, the wingnut-o-sphere has now done more research into Obama’s great uncle’s military service than they did to find out how much blow W did while with TANG.

  20. Soj said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:50

    I’m not the biggest fan of political grandstanding on the military’s accomplishments but holy jeebus these wingnuts sure bit off more than they can chew – fucking hilarious :))

  21. Oregon Guy said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:50

    It just blew me away how they immediately started swiftboating Obama’s uncle, whose crimes are (a) being related to Obama and (b) being part of the 89th IN. For all we know, he could be a total wingnut.

  22. Swoof said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:53

    Those guys are really a piece of work. Harassing a WWII vet over this shit? That’s really grasping at straws.

  23. JenJen said,

    May 29, 2008 at 8:57

    That is some sweet pWn3dage. :-)

  24. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:03

    Well, I’ve complained to them about the personal ID stuff. If and when they remove it, could someone please delete my previous comment so that the mouth breathers don’t have directions on how to dig it up again.

  25. Johnny Coelacanth said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:04

    Dan Rheielele’s crew make Michelle Malkin look competent, intelligent and competent. That’s a lot of ents.

  26. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:04

    Because I’m not going back to that shithole to check to see if they did.

  27. Johnny Coelacanth said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:05

    Did I mention I was stoned when I wrote the previous comment?

  28. TRex said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:06

    The ‘good day’ really puts it over the top, doesn’t it?

    It kind of reminds me of Willie Wonka.

  29. Doctor Biobrain said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:06

    If these people were any stupider, they’d be Bush. And that’s saying alot.

  30. Andrew said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:10

    Holy shit. I was laughing for a good straight minute because of that!

    Bee-you-tee-full.

  31. Michael Harrington said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:15

    I wonder if Mr. Kitchell ever served under Tony McAuliffe? That reply has a certain “Nuts!” style piquance to it.

  32. ahem said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:20

    The 101st Cheeto-Eating Kerning Brigade is still at it, of course. Got to wonder whether wingnuts are born without shame, or get it removed like a castrati’s balls.

    I have the inkling of an inkling that most people are tired of these fuckers, and that they’ll wake up on November 5th feeling very, very alone.

    But I must try to prevent optimism getting the better of me.

  33. Lesley said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:21

    Riehl compadre Steve Gilbert of Sweetness & Light did some digging and discovered…

    It’s twue!

    Heh. Eat it, scumbags!

  34. dbt said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:22

    some dipshit goes so far as to say that Ohrdruf was “just a work camp” … genius.

    (Does this mean we can now refer to S&L as the home of holocaust deniers?)

  35. free patriot said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:28

    real soldiers have little time for fools

    too bad the repuglitards never served, or they would know that

  36. Lesley said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:34

    Just a work camp

    and they also seem to imply that because he didn’t liberate the whole camp, he’s not really the hero Obama claims. these civilian heroes of the right who’ve sat on their asses supporting an administration that engineered its own concentration camps and secret prisons for torture. the mind reels.

  37. Rightwingsnarkle said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:39

    Any follow up should probably have the headline:

    “Wingnut Shrugs Off Bitchslap, Wades in for More.”

    Clueless? Shameless?

    I report. You decide.

  38. Lesley said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:45

    Jesus Christ, they’re not accepting the information!

    Naturally the wingnuts couldn’t leave well enough alone and just had to respond to the reply cuz it hurt their widdle feewings.

    E-mails flew back and forth.

    The result? They’re calling Kitchell a liar.

    Apparently, when directed, the wingnuts are unable to crawl back under the rock they came from.

  39. A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever | Blog of the Moderate Left said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:49

    [...] To that end, they have now moved on to harassing WWII veterans to find out the truth, damn it! Unfortunately for the wingnuts, the WWII veterans have fought tougher battles than The Battle of Dunkin Donuts, and don’t suffer fools gladly. [...]

  40. Rightwingsnarkle said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:50

    Ah, yes, the mindset of your typical rightwing authoritarian follower is nothing if not entirely predictable.

    Never underestimate the power, and seeming comfort, of denial.

  41. Jeff Fecke said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:50

    The 89th fought battles throughout Western Europe, helping to liberate oppressed peoples. The 101st Fighting Hellmice, on the other hand, have successfully forced Dunkin Donuts to pull an ad featuring Rachel Ray in a scarf.

    You’d think the 89th would bow to the superior accomplishments of the wingnut overlords.

  42. Lesley said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:53

    ack, wordpress is being ornery again.
    This comment…
    http://sweetness-light.com/archive/a-query-to-the-89th-divisions-website#comment-111557
    …is certain to blow the gaskets of all who ridicule and try to diminish Payne’s service in that hideous comment thread.

    On the matter of the military service of Charlie Payne, the great-uncle of Barack Obama:

    His full name is Charles Thomas Payne and he IS the uncle (the term “uncle” has in fact been used even for great-uncles in that family) who served in the Army in the 89th Infantry during WW II and suffered severe enough PTSD that, after coming back from the war, he isolated himself at home for some time.

    Charles recovered, attended college and to this day is an active, mentally vital, 83 year-old resident of Chicago.

    This information was obtained tonight from a phone conversation with members of the Payne family and is being posted to correct the mis-information that is swirling around the internet.

    CORRECT info:
    1. Charles’ middle initial is “T”, not “W”;
    2. he did have what is now termed PTSD; and
    3. he was so traumatized by what he encountered during the war, that he in fact did isolate himself at home for a lengthy period of time.

    Charles is the second of FOUR Payne siblings:

    1. Madelyn Lee
    2. Charles Thomas
    3. Margaret Arlene
    4. Jon Virgil, (born 1937, which is why there is no listing for him in the 1930 Census of Augusta City, Butler County, Kansas. This census has been the only source offered for “Payne sibling info” oin all of the genealogical sites cited by those interested in this story.

    I suspect that the listing for Charles E. Payne of Kansas is in fact the record for Charles Thomas Payne. I believe the scribe probably heard “E” instead of “T.” That type of error is frequent in census records and in military records where the info is provided orally:

    Payne, Charles E. Inducted 9 June 1943, Army 37531353 Registered, order # V11125 Augusta, Butler Co. (Board # 2)

    http://www.kshs.org/genealogis…..mit=SEARCH

  43. Lesley said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:56

    ack word press isn’t allowing href tags again.

    trying again.

    This commenter (close to the bottom of the thread) is certain to blow the gaskets of all who ridicule and try to diminish Payne’s service.

    J Straight
    May 29th, 2008 at 12:02 am
    On the matter of the military service of Charlie Payne, the great-uncle of Barack Obama:

    His full name is Charles Thomas Payne and he IS the uncle (the term “uncle” has in fact been used even for great-uncles in that family) who served in the Army in the 89th Infantry during WW II and suffered severe enough PTSD that, after coming back from the war, he isolated himself at home for some time.

    Charles recovered, attended college and to this day is an active, mentally vital, 83 year-old resident of Chicago.

    This information was obtained tonight from a phone conversation with members of the Payne family and is being posted to correct the mis-information that is swirling around the internet.

    CORRECT info:
    1. Charles’ middle initial is “T”, not “W”;
    2. he did have what is now termed PTSD; and
    3. he was so traumatized by what he encountered during the war, that he in fact did isolate himself at home for a lengthy period of time.

    Charles is the second of FOUR Payne siblings:

    1. Madelyn Lee
    2. Charles Thomas
    3. Margaret Arlene
    4. Jon Virgil, (born 1937, which is why there is no listing for him in the 1930 Census of Augusta City, Butler County, Kansas. This census has been the only source offered for “Payne sibling info” oin all of the genealogical sites cited by those interested in this story.

    I suspect that the listing for Charles E. Payne of Kansas is in fact the record for Charles Thomas Payne. I believe the scribe probably heard “E” instead of “T.” That type of error is frequent in census records and in military records where the info is provided orally:

    Payne, Charles E. Inducted 9 June 1943, Army 37531353 Registered, order # V11125 Augusta, Butler Co. (Board # 2)

    http://www.kshs.org/genealogis…..mit=SEARCH

  44. Lesley said,

    May 29, 2008 at 9:56

    ack word press isn’t allowing href tags again.

    trying again.

    This commenter (close to the bottom of the thread) is certain to blow the gaskets of all who ridicule and try to diminish Payne’s service.

    J Straight
    May 29th, 2008 at 12:02 am
    On the matter of the military service of Charlie Payne, the great-uncle of Barack Obama:

    His full name is Charles Thomas Payne and he IS the uncle (the term “uncle” has in fact been used even for great-uncles in that family) who served in the Army in the 89th Infantry during WW II and suffered severe enough PTSD that, after coming back from the war, he isolated himself at home for some time.

    Charles recovered, attended college and to this day is an active, mentally vital, 83 year-old resident of Chicago.

    This information was obtained tonight from a phone conversation with members of the Payne family and is being posted to correct the mis-information that is swirling around the internet.

    CORRECT info:
    1. Charles’ middle initial is “T”, not “W”;
    2. he did have what is now termed PTSD; and
    3. he was so traumatized by what he encountered during the war, that he in fact did isolate himself at home for a lengthy period of time.

    Charles is the second of FOUR Payne siblings:

    1. Madelyn Lee
    2. Charles Thomas
    3. Margaret Arlene
    4. Jon Virgil, (born 1937, which is why there is no listing for him in the 1930 Census of Augusta City, Butler County, Kansas. This census has been the only source offered for “Payne sibling info” oin all of the genealogical sites cited by those interested in this story.

    I suspect that the listing for Charles E. Payne of Kansas is in fact the record for Charles Thomas Payne. I believe the scribe probably heard “E” instead of “T.” That type of error is frequent in census records and in military records where the info is provided orally:

    Payne, Charles E. Inducted 9 June 1943, Army 37531353 Registered, order # V11125 Augusta, Butler Co. (Board # 2)

    (he provides a link to the info, but this won’t take here)

  45. Jeff Fecke said,

    May 29, 2008 at 10:01

    Lesley said,

    Those facts are pretty factual and all, but they’re no match for the complete ability of the wingnut brigade to completely and utterly ignore facts. By Friday, Payne will have been an aide to Hitler. (Can you prove he wasn’t? You can’t, can you?)

  46. Lesley said,

    May 29, 2008 at 10:06

    Much ado about nothing…as usual, but oh my god the wingnuts are offensive. Did their mothers not teach them manners?

    I bet dollars to donuts some of these schmucks will show up on the old man’s doorstep haranguing him for proof. If they do, I hope he has “an episode” and blows them to smithereens with the guns they support him having.

  47. free patriot said,

    May 29, 2008 at 10:10

    I was trying to politely inquire about my Grandfather’s time in the service, and I got totally ignored by the vets who served with him

    I got the feeling that the vets didn’t discuss ANYTHING with outsiders

    and I was sincerely PROUD of my Grandfather’s service

    guess if you wanna attack or slander a vet you get a different response …

  48. Lesley said,

    May 29, 2008 at 10:14

    the comments in that thread are outrageous. my eyeballs are literally bleeding and I took a sleeping pill earlier tonight that should have knocked me out, but here I am wide awake and tense as fucking drum with rage from reading them.

  49. Pinko Punko said,

    May 29, 2008 at 10:24

    Total insanity. Quality humanity on parade.

  50. Lesley said,

    May 29, 2008 at 10:28

    true to form, one of them has posted the younger Kitchell’s address and phone number in that thread. what a bunch of scumbags.

    i can’t stand it, going to bed. hopefully, by some strategic miracle, i’ll wake up and find the world free of these cobags.

    as for mr. kitchell, i’m tempted to throw off an email of support. poor bastard serves his country only to find it produced these chumps.

  51. Milo Johnson said,

    May 29, 2008 at 10:28

    It’s been ten minutes since I first read this and my nose still burns from quantity of Diet Dr. Pepper that I snorted through it. Mr. Kitchell, I salute you.

  52. Some Guy said,

    May 29, 2008 at 10:30

    Hehehe, 101st Fighting Hellmice. I’d suggest 77th Wailing Banana-slugs, myself, but I have a weird fetish for trying to work “banana-slugs” into group names, so I”m biased..

    Have they gotten to the the point where they’re doubting Obama’s claim that the US was ever even involved at all in that little Europe thing, Lesley?

  53. jon said,

    May 29, 2008 at 10:41

    I just love this website’s assumption that they were the first journalistic outfit to question Obama’s story and were thus entitled to a full interview.

    This will hurt them to the quick, but must be said: Dan Rather wouldn’t have sent those journalist clowns to take care of his need for fresh shoelaces.

  54. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 10:46

    Well, from Lesley’s comment, I guess they haven’t cleared off Kitchell’s personal info yet. I’m not checking because I’m serious about never visiting that shithole again. Fuck, what a bunch of assholes.

  55. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 10:50

    Some Guy,
    I for one welcome our kind and benevolent fetish overlords and hope they bring swift retribution to the stinking Wailing Bana-Slugs.

    Also, they’ll never disavow the US role in WWII. Otherwise they’d lose their favourite epithet “If it weren’t for us, you’d all be speaking Islamo-German”.

  56. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 10:52

    Oh, and for pure, unadulterated, top quality snark – the word Aushcwitzgate is like magical beans. TEH AWESUM!!!!111!

  57. Rosali said,

    May 29, 2008 at 11:05

    More bitchslapping-
    Please spend ample time chasing down the lies fed to you by chickenhawks Bush & Co. Like 90% of this administration, they don’t have the foggiest idea what we went through or what we saw at Ohrdruf.

  58. hank said,

    May 29, 2008 at 11:08

    How infantile. It is telling that you found it amusing.

  59. Prospero said,

    May 29, 2008 at 11:14

    How infantile. It is telling that you found it amusing.

    You are soo much more mature and sofisticated then those WWII vets.

  60. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 11:20

    I;m not sure who hank is ragging on, but if he wants non infantile humor, allow me to offer:
    POOP!

  61. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 11:21

    PENIS

  62. Will said,

    May 29, 2008 at 11:29

    How infantile. It is telling that you found it amusing.

    Joe Malchow is trolling now?

  63. Moonbat Rising said,

    May 29, 2008 at 11:35

    Wingnut logic:

    Dude who sat out a war partying in Texas, then shows up couple of decades later on an aircraft carrier wearing a G.I. Joe flight suit with codpiece = war hero.

    Guy who was wounded in Vietnam several times during actual conflict, saves some bloke’s life and gets awarded couple of Purple Hearts for his efforts = effete pussy.

    Old veteran dude who did some hardcore WWII military duty helping liberate Europe, while experiencing horrific stuff that most of us can’t imagine, and who now spends his time trying to keep the memory of his fallen and remaining comrades alive = ‘Sheehanite Assclown’.

    Are there no depths to which these Wingnut tools will not sink? (Don’t bother answering – I already know the answer).

    And while they’re taking a trip down memory lane, perhaps they should Google W’s great grandfather Prescott and see what he was up to during WWII.

  64. Smut Clyde said,

    May 29, 2008 at 11:58

    These were the people who who described a 13-year-old as a legitimate target as soon as he stated his gratitude for your SCHIP program, so don’t hold your breaths waiting for them to worry about the feelings of WW-II vets.

  65. Rightwingsnarkle said,

    May 29, 2008 at 12:04

    Google W’s great grandfather Prescott and see what he was up to during WWII.

    Hey, he was in the service – as a captain of industry!

  66. mparker said,

    May 29, 2008 at 12:07

    Notice that Larry Johnson (pro clinton lunatic) tried to turn this story into some “delagates should be seated argument.”

    Go back to no Quarter larry and peddle your crap there.

  67. Alex Higgins said,

    May 29, 2008 at 12:12

    I thank Kitchell for his service.

  68. craig said,

    May 29, 2008 at 12:28

    Prescott Bush was instrumental to the war effort!

  69. bummer said,

    May 29, 2008 at 12:38

    can sadlyno do an interview with this Kitchell guy about how stupid people talk too much?

  70. bc said,

    May 29, 2008 at 13:00

    The backhand of the bitchslap gets them too: http://www.89infdivww2.org/

  71. Some Guy said,

    May 29, 2008 at 13:02

    “Prescott Bush was instrumental to the war effort!”

    Heh, technically true, as who’s war effort is not stipulated.

  72. serge said,

    May 29, 2008 at 13:38

    This proves that the best, most pointed negative response is said in as few words as possible. That was brilliant.

  73. Jim said,

    May 29, 2008 at 13:52

    How infantile. It is telling that you found it amusing.

    Joe Malchow is trolling now?

    No way man, that’s way to succinct for Joey M. He would have expanded on “infantile” for another 25 words.

  74. Arky H8r of VürdPress said,

    May 29, 2008 at 13:52

    Watching these guys stamp their dicks further into the ground is almost better than sex. Call me when they start to deny that the 89th was anywhere near Germany at the time. I’ve got to go … do … something.

    p.s. Hellmice! Bwahaha!

  75. cleek » Swiftboating, WWII said,

    May 29, 2008 at 13:52

    [...] Swiftboating, WWII Filed under: Uncategorized — cleek @ 7:52 am [...]

  76. Arakasi said,

    May 29, 2008 at 14:07

    It looks like Mr. Kitchell has updated the website. The introduction now reads:

    Concerning the service of Mr. Charles Payne: C.T. Payne was a soldier in the 89th Infantry Division. He served in the 355th Infantry Regiment, Company K. The 355th Infantry Regiment was the unit to liberate Ohrdruf. Mr. Payne was there.

    For those who seek to minimize the horrors of Ohrdruf since it was a ‘work’ camp and not a ‘death’ camp, we have but one word: shame. Ironically, this argument has been made to us time and time again by various Holocaust-deniers and other pro-Nazi groups. We will let the testimony of survivors and veterans speak for themselves.

    followed by a lengthy quote from a Rabbi Murray Kohn on how the fleeing guards executed prisoners as they fled

  77. MajorKong said,

    May 29, 2008 at 14:13

    Oooooh! Snap!

  78. bc said,

    May 29, 2008 at 14:15

    Serge, for more proof that “the best, most pointed negative response is said in as few words as possible,” visit http://isbarackobamamuslim.com/

  79. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 14:16

    Hey guys, whether the cobag lickers at SweatyPenis with Blight fix their comments or not, could you delete my 8:54 comment. It’s probably safe enough since the magic force field of snark will keep idiots away, but just to be on the safe side I don’t want to give away hints on how to look the Kitchell’s up. Thanx.

  80. El Cid said,

    May 29, 2008 at 14:19

    Raymond Kitchell, I salute you.

  81. TR said,

    May 29, 2008 at 14:22

    Those people are twelve kinds of pathetic.

  82. Nimrod Gently said,

    May 29, 2008 at 14:23

    Raymond Kitchell is my hero.

  83. bjacques said,

    May 29, 2008 at 14:29

    Another Swift Boat hits the rocks
    Abandoned to spill out its guts
    A trail of broken wingnut ass
    On my blog at night

    Ill-equipped to fight

    Will they ever get the message?
    Sadly, No!

    With apologies to Mr. Biafra

  84. El Cid said,

    May 29, 2008 at 14:30

    Hey, does that website need any sort of fundraiser? I’d write the guy directly, but don’t want to flood them with more e-mail. I could spare a few bucks.

  85. R. Porrofatto said,

    May 29, 2008 at 14:39

    From the S&L comment thread regarding Charles Payne’s experience, this has to one of the most putrid and benighted comments I’ve ever seen:
    Ohrdruf, [w]hich, it should be remembered, was a work camp — and not a death camp like Auschwitz or Treblinka. So one wonders why he was so terribly traumatized.
    Yeah nothing so terribly traumatic at all {WARNING: TRAUMATIC PICTURE OF CORPSES.}

    Dachau wasn’t a death camp either, you vile turd.

    God, it’s amazing the depths these people will plumb for mere partisan political points.

  86. Prospero said,

    May 29, 2008 at 14:48

    Ohrdruf, [w]hich, it should be remembered, was a work camp — and not a death camp like Auschwitz or Treblinka. So one wonders why he was so terribly traumatized.

    I think they are suggesting he was traumatized by sight of people working – you know, being elitist liberal and all.

  87. r€nato said,

    May 29, 2008 at 14:51

    Have they gotten around to investigating Payne’s countertops yet?

  88. Gundamhead said,

    May 29, 2008 at 14:54

    “For those who seek to minimize the horrors of Ohrdruf since it was a ‘work’ camp and not a ‘death’ camp, we have but one word: shame.”

    Yeah, that’s kinda the problem:they don’t have any.

  89. bjacques said,

    May 29, 2008 at 14:54

    Still investigating the steyns on the counterpane.

  90. jon said,

    May 29, 2008 at 15:04

    When will Kitchell get invited to Denver?

  91. Arky H8r of VürdPress said,

    May 29, 2008 at 15:05

    Ohrdruf, [w]hich, it should be remembered, was a work camp — and not a death camp like Auschwitz or Treblinka. So one wonders why he was so terribly traumatized.

    And cramming people into cattle cars wasn’t that bad. I mean it’s not like the NAZIs ran them over with the train.

    I hope these fucktards don’t realize that they’re playing with Neo-Nazis and other affiliated scum.

    At least not until they’re well and truly busted in front of the entire God damned world, preferably by way of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad citing their deranged shit as proof that Teh Jews and Americans lied about the Holocaust.

    In happier news, Gov. Paterson has done an end run around the TalEvan.

  92. Apprentice to Darth Holden said,

    May 29, 2008 at 15:13

    I hope these fucktards don’t realize that they’re playing with Neo-Nazis and other affiliated scum.

    Even if they did realize it, they would not care.

    Because they are ideological brothers in arms with Nazis.

    The Nazis are, after all, fellow fascists.

  93. El Cid said,

    May 29, 2008 at 15:19

    It was a good thing that in the work camps the prisoners weren’t forced to eat organic food and prevented from being able to smoke, because that, would have been, like, so fascist.

  94. mat said,

    May 29, 2008 at 15:20

    Well, one thing we do know is we don’t have to hire Columbo, Sherlock Holmes, Inspector Gadget, or Nancy Drew to seek out, clarify, and verify Dan Riehl’s or his commenter’s military records, since they have none to speak of!

    What a generation of swine. It’s quite embarrassing for all of us born during or after the Baby Boom to have little pudwackers like this in our midst who speak as if they have earned the moral capital it takes to badmouth the exploits and experiences of WW II vets so arrogantly.

    It sure is fun to see a hero from the WW II generation slap these sniveling turdlings around! Bravo!

  95. Jersey Tomato said,

    May 29, 2008 at 15:25

    It would be funny if it weren’t so pathetic….the wingnuts have eyewitness testimony that Payne was there, and won’t accept it. Yet, the $10,000 Gary Trudeau offered to anyone who can prove that they saw George Bush show up for his military duty in Alabama has gone unclaimed, and the same wingnuts scream at the top of their lungs that in spite of the lack of eyewitness testimony, you MUST believe he was there, or else. “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence” and all that. Wingnuttia: like schizophrenia, but less logical.

  96. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 15:30

    Blah blah blah Nazis blah blah blah Nazis.
    Man you guys are just Godwin-ing this thing to death. I mean what do Nazis have to do with WWII concentration camps. Lurn sum hee-stor-ee plz.

  97. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 15:31

    I jumped the shark with that last post didn’t I?

  98. D. Aristophanes said,

    May 29, 2008 at 15:49

    MBA – done.

  99. tigrismus said,

    May 29, 2008 at 15:53

    Ohrdruf, [w]hich, it should be remembered, was a work camp — and not a death camp like Auschwitz or Treblinka.

    Yes, and as we all know, the Germans really meant it when they said “arbeit macht frei.”

  100. ice weasel said,

    May 29, 2008 at 15:59

    I wonder if the wingnuts also realize that in pissing and moaning about this so loudly they’ve only managed to make Obama look better to the rest of the country. You know, the 70% or so of us that are sane.

    Otherwise it would have just been another sound byte. Now it has its own life.

    Thanks wingnuts, Mission Accomplished! Yer Decider In Chief would be proud.

  101. James in Iowa said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:00

    Some wingnut idiot: “Ohrdruf, [w]hich, it should be remembered, was a work camp — and not a death camp like Auschwitz[.]”

    Arbeit Macht Frei, idiot. Not that you’ve ever worked an honest day in your life.

  102. Susan of Texas said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:02

    Yes, now we know about Obama’s family’s military service. Thanks, wingnuts.

    And thanks for old soldiers, who don’t forget their dead comrades. It means a lot to the families of the dead.

  103. DanF said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:02

    Wow. This post (and this thread) just made my day! Thank you everyone, and thank you Mr. Kitchell!

  104. g said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:02

    I totally missed this whole controversy till it was over, but what the fuck? These assholes actually called themselves “Sweetness and Light?”

    I won’t go there, but where does the “Sheehanite” thing come in. What’s that supposed to mean?

    WTF?

    Let me know if my summary of the issue is correct:

    Obama says his uncle helped liberate Auschwitz and the experience was so awful it affected his mental well-being. Wingnuts say “Gotcha!” your dates are wrong” Obama says, “oops I meant Buchenwald” Wingnuts harrass war veterans and deny the man even existed, but in face of eyewitness accounts, fall back to say “He only liberated part of Buchenwald, and it shouldn’t have been so bad as all that, plus he was your great uncle, not your uncle, and you can’t prove what his middle initial is, so you’re a LIAR!”

  105. World War II Veterans Are Awesome | Andrew Daniller said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:05

    [...] Sorry to do another post on the whole Auschwitz/Buchenwald thing; I know some of you would probably prefer I ignore it from here on out. I promise, this one is much lighter and hopefully funny. The story is courtesy of Sadly, No! [...]

  106. The Citizen » Blog Archive » Schweet said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:17

    [...] kom der så det her og det her ud [...]

  107. TheFountainHead said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:19

    This is so fantastic it defies description.

    Know Hope.

  108. bjacques said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:20

    Well, they’ll like the motto over Buchenwald: To Each His Own.

    I visited the place in November 1999. Bleak, as you’d expect. Not very big. I’ve no desire to see any bigger ones.

    Maybe the wingnuts can run with that. Can’t be much of a camp; the Nazis murdered “only” 60,000 there, so Obama’s uncle must have been a wuss. Must be where the latte-sipping genes came from. And OMFGWTFBBQ! The Commies who got that part of Germany used the place to kill off thousands of enemies of the state too! Tha only proves Obama is a Muslim! FTW!

  109. Legalize said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:23

    That’s it, g. That’s all it ever is.

  110. galoob said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:23

    Oh, there’s more on that Gilbert’s site:

    From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:47 AM
    To: Steve Gilbert
    Subject: Re: Any Record Of Charles W Payne?

    I don’t claim to represent anyone. You are the one who came to my son and I asking for information.

    Please spend ample time chasing down the lies fed to you by chickenhawks Bush & Co. Like 90% of this administration, they don’t have the foggiest idea what we went through or what we saw at Ohrdruf.

  111. JGabriel said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:36

    Steve Gilbert (via coment thread at Sweetness-Light):

    Granted the enlistment records are said to be missing as much as 13% of the inductees, due to key punch card malfunctions.

    But what are the odds that Obama’s great uncle’s records would be missing?

    A little over one in eight, nitwit. Don’t they math at wingnut blogger school?

    .

  112. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:36

    Thanks for the delete! I feel much better already.

  113. Mnemosyne said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:40

    Ohrdruf, [w]hich, it should be remembered, was a work camp — and not a death camp like Auschwitz or Treblinka. So one wonders why he was so terribly traumatized.

    Uh, Auschwitz was a work camp. Basically, you arrived at Auschwitz and if you weren’t healthy enough to be worked to death, they sent you to neighboring Birkenau to be slaughtered.

    You’d think that the people who whack off to the History Channel would actually know one or two details of these things.

  114. g said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:40

    But what are the odds that Obama’s great uncle’s records would be missing?

    I think he means “What are the odds that no one 60 years ago would have predicted that this particular soldiers great nephew might someday be a candidate for political office?”

    when you ask it that way, you uncover the true nature of the vast left-wing conspiracy – it combines US military pre-computer records manipulation with TIME TRAVEL!

  115. g said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:43

    I llove a commnetor over at Michelle Malkin’s site who says:

    I’m looking forward to the debate where McCain brings up every Obama gaffe to date, and whacks the senility issue to its deserved death.

    Yeah, right on!! Next thing you know, Obama will do something as stupid as confusing Iraq with Iran! Go get ‘im, Grampy!

  116. Apprentice to Darth Holden said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:45

    BTW, there was a fire at an archive in St. Louis a few decades ago that destroyed a lot of service records.

    Now, I don’t expect your average wingnut to be aware of these sorts of things, but then again, it shocks me that they pay attention to stop signs.

  117. Blue Buddha said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:48

    Mnemosyne said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:40

    Uh, Auschwitz was a work camp. Basically, you arrived at Auschwitz and if you weren’t healthy enough to be worked to death, they sent you to neighboring Birkenau to be slaughtered.

    Yep. Auchwitz was one of the first concentration camps, which were originally “work” (ie: slave) camps. The Nazis started opening the death camps once they realized that guarding/hiding/feeding millions of Jews became a logistical nightmare.

  118. It’s Just A Ride » Blog Archive » Good Day Sir! said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:55

    [...] I said good day! [...]

  119. LawMichigander said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:56

    Wow it always amazes me how these right wing nut bags think they own all principals Americana. Guess what, you don’t. In fact the idea of you being a part of America is highly disturbing.

    As someone that is descended from the first Irish immigrant in the 1600s, a Vice Major in the 1800s before the War of 1812, and countless veterans, and with three great grandparents that are cousins of the Bush’s; go fuck yourself.

  120. George Smiley said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:57

    “Don’t they math at wingnut blogger school?”

    Only Bizarro Math.

  121. nikto said,

    May 29, 2008 at 16:59

    OBAMA/KITCHELL in 2008!!!

  122. The Rock said,

    May 29, 2008 at 17:06

    I already evicted them from my basement, changed the locks and rented it to a nice young pair of millipedes with a steady income. If they try crawling back in, I’m calling the cops.

  123. The Obama Auschwitz Controversy Is Over, Right? said,

    May 29, 2008 at 17:12

    [...] But some haven’t — and some have clearly had enough. [...]

  124. mitch said,

    May 29, 2008 at 17:14

    how can these people not realize how fucking ridiculous they are? i clicked on the link to sweetness-light and, after a couple updates, it’s now clear that he was a member of the division in question…but Mr. Kitchell did not provide SERIAL NUMBERS, SO I’M NOT SAYING OBAMA IS LYING, BUT IT MAKES YOU WONDER….

    Retards.

  125. t4toby said,

    May 29, 2008 at 17:15

    Yes, sometimes the poetry is in the brevity.

    Bravo, Mr. Kitchell.

    The more I think about it, the more the wingnutosphere reminds me of the flying monkeys from The Wizard of Oz.

  126. John Dillinger said,

    May 29, 2008 at 17:16

    Look at the comment they scrubbed from the post:

    So true, SG. 3000 bodies is nothing to sneeze at, sure, but Obama’s “uncle” must have been of pretty weak character to have let 3000 dead bodies make such an impression on him, and to have led him to claim to have “liberated” anyone. How do you liberate dead bodies? Especially ones that weren’t actually murdered, but only died of disease or starvation?

  127. Scott said,

    May 29, 2008 at 17:16

    Raymond Kitchell is my hero.

  128. JiminyCricket said,

    May 29, 2008 at 17:22

    Dillinger, I wrote that post, tongue firmly in cheek. They immediately purged the post and closed the thread for comments.

    Apparently they didn’t want to look, you know, unreasonable or nothing. ;)

  129. Principal Blackman said,

    May 29, 2008 at 17:26

    Raymond Kitchell is my hero.

    Mine too, though now it’s due to more than just his tremendous heroism in WWII.

  130. El Cid said,

    May 29, 2008 at 17:29

    Raymond Kitchell is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.

  131. mario said,

    May 29, 2008 at 17:35

    I checked Payne’s kitchen, and guess what I found?

    You know it – simulated granite countertops!!!!!

    I’m going dumpster diving next….

  132. Archer 813 said,

    May 29, 2008 at 17:49

    Wait wait wait…

    “Also, the intrepid S&L correspondant dispatched to bravely write an email to a veteran of a war that ended half a century ago, is named Cigarskunk.”

    I know of a ‘Cigarskunk’. He’s active in the ‘furry’ fetish subculture, commisioning, from nearly any artist who’ll take his money, drawings of his skunk persona screwing an endless parade of female characters (including several moderately well-known cartoon characters), all while constantly smoking his trademark cigar. A real class act.

    I knew he was a wingnut, and it doesn’t really surprise me to see he’s *that* kind of wingnut, but still. Sometimes I’m amazed at just how small the Internet can be.

  133. NickM said,

    May 29, 2008 at 17:52

    “Sometimes it takes a WWII vet to truly handle a Swiftboating wingnut.”

    Well, they’re used to fighting fascists.

  134. Jennifer said,

    May 29, 2008 at 17:54

    So, Cigarskunk is a Holocaust-denying furry fetishist…these things, they do get curiouser and curioser.

  135. markg8 said,

    May 29, 2008 at 17:59

    These people at S&L are lunatics. They’re discussing the difference between Nazi “workcamps” and “death camps”. Eisenhower himself ordered US soldiers to see the camps we liberated in the last stages of the war to reinforce their will to fight when they were destroying cities house by house fighting teenagers and old men. He ordered German civilians to see them, to bury the dead so they’d never be able to claim, “we didn’t know”.

    Oh and they’ve convinced themselves Obama’s great uncle is a fictional character.

  136. Lesley said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:04

    yeah, no death in the “work camp” nosiree… just 9-5…

  137. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:05

    Hey markg8, how’s tricks over at TMCB?

  138. MileHi Hawkeye said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:07

    Having visited both Buchenwald and Auschwitz (or O?wi?cim to us Poles), I can say that if you are not completely overwhelmed by man’s inhumanity to man that is on display at these places, you are not human.

    To this day, you can still catch the lingering smell of burning flesh and the aura of the terrible, terrible acts that occured.

  139. Michael said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:08

    My dad was one of the liberator’s of Buchenwald. He was sent to take part in this. He knew Hungarian fluently and German. My dad was involved in this because of the SS guards. Many of them were Hungarian and my dad sort of built up a specialization in interragating them and he saw action against them in Normandy. The men who went into that place were very tough men. My dad told me battle lust took over and they killed most of the SS guards. His langiage skills were not utilized there anyways. My dad wouldn’t talk much about that place. My dad preceded to Weimer (home of Bach) with a few MP’s and told the local population they were welcome to visit the camp and bury the dead courtesy of Patton and Ike. My dad said everyone told him they had no idea what was going on at the camp. Obviously that was not true.

  140. MileHi Hawkeye said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:08

    Damn WordPress keeping the Poles down!

  141. markg8 said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:09

    not even an mba : You’re losing me? TMCB?

  142. Scott (Billy Joel) McClellan said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:10

    I am the entertainer,
    The idol of my age.
    I make all kinds of money,
    When I go on the stage.
    Ah, you’ve seen me in the papers,
    I’ve been in the magazines.
    But if I go cold,
    I won’t get sold.
    I’ll get put in the back
    In the discount rack,
    Like another can of beans.

  143. Scott (Billy Joel) McClellan said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:11

    markg8,
    The Mighty Clinton Bunker

  144. jon said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:12

    Next math meme:

    60,000 dead? That’s only twenty times the dead of 9/11. So clearly, it’s nothing to get worked up about.

  145. themann1086 said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:16

    I salute you, Mr. Kitchell.

    I had the “pleasure” of visiting Mauthausen 3 years ago. It was a chilling experience that left a permanent mark on my psyche, even 60 years after. That these soulless monsters would even attempt to make this a controversy, and spout Holocaust-denier talking points while doing so… it sickens me. Mr. Kitchell, however, has reignited my hope for humanity.

    Thank you, sir.

  146. Sam said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:17

    If you’ve got the stomach for it, head on back to Sweetness & Light and check out the comments on the Buchenwalf post. It’s some of the most repellant slanders against the soldiers of the 89th ID you could ever imagine. I’ve coiled off stool samples with more human decency that those scumbags at Sweetness & Light have.

  147. doug said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:18

    Obama’s family helped liberate the Nazi camps while Bush’s family helped finance the Nazis who built the camps.

  148. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:18

    [tastelessness warning]
    I went on a tour of Buchenwald last year. It’s safer than any American city. In fact you and I could freely walk through those neighborhoods, today.

  149. I Know What I Know : Versus said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:19

    [...] This versus this. It is, I suppose, just a little bit sad when someone doesn’t actually realize that he’s crawled out from under a rock. Posted by scott on Thursday, May 29, 2008, at 9:19 am, and filed under Politics. Follow any responses to this post with its comments RSS feed. You can post a comment or trackback from your blog. [...]

  150. D.N. Nation said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:19

    He’s a pathetic chickenhawk coward, but Glenn Reynolds is good for one thing: A barometer. Usually you can see what type of misinformation and nonsense will be the topics-o-the-week around wingnuttia by just browsing the crap links over at Instadoofus.

    Suffice it to say, once it became evident that the wingnut blogosphere was going to turn to outright Holocaust denial just to prove some point about Obama, Reynolds stopped peddling the “gaffe.” Apparently these clowns didn’t get the memo; they’re left out to dry.

  151. In Vino Veritas said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:20

    You don’t get it. These people are zombies. Zombies, you see, have no shame, no sense of decorum, no pride to be brusied.

    They keep coming. Eventually, they’ll get the Dunkin Donuts ad scrubbed; they’ll get Subway to give five grand meant for a school’s sporting department to a single house. In this, too, they shall prevail, and Mr. Kitchell will be forced to apologize for his intemperate remarks.

  152. markg8 said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:26

    LOL you kids and all your newfangled acronyms on the intertubes. I can hardly figure out what you’re talking about half the time. Can’t get into the TMCB anymore. Lambert banned me when I posted a link to an article about Bill and Hillary’s connection to the infamous Tan Family of Mariana’s sweatshop infamy on the night of her big “victry” in WV.

    I imagine they’re still over there clinging to fantasies about getting Hillary nominated because Obama = Genghis Hitler or something like that.

  153. ellenbrenna said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:33

    My great uncle served in Europe, liberated concentration camps and basically drank himself to death when he returned home. My grandfather served in the Pacific and had undiagnosed PTSD for decades, he was abusive to his wife and children and had a nervous breakdown at one point. The wingnuts are missing the point of Obama’s initial statements (which were about veterans’ medical care not about claiming hero status for his uncle) because they want to live in a fantasy world where war is uniformly glorious and righteous.

    Anybody who questions that particular fantasy will be subject to their ire whether it be Vietnam war protesters, George McGovern, John Kerry, Barack Obama or an actual WWII vet.

  154. ellenbrenna said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:35

    and by actual WWII vet I meant someone who is not publicly politically active.

  155. El Cid said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:38

    I know for a fact that Tom Hanks survived all of the battles in Saving Private Ryan so these vets talking about war being horrible and stuff are lying, lying I tell ya.

  156. Tracking Down Obama’s Great-Uncle | Back Alley Media said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:39

    [...] This is pretty hilarious… [...]

  157. mirror said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:40

    Here’s a first hand account from the 89th Infantry Division historical site:

    http://www.89infdivww2.org/ohrdruf/liberate.htm

    “As we stepped into the compound one was greeted by an overpowering odor of quick-lime, dirty clothing, feces, and urine. Lying in the center of the square were 60-70 dead prisoners clad in striped clothing and in disarray. They had reportedly been machine gunned the day before because they were too weak to march to another camp. The idea was for the SS and the prisoners to avoid the approaching U.S. Army and the Russians.

    Adjacent to the “parade ground” was a small shed which was open on one side. Inside, were bodies stacked in alternate directions as one would stack cordwood, and each layer was covered with a sprinkling of quicklime. I did not see him, but someone told me that there had been a body of a dead American aviator in the shed. This place reportedly had been used for punishment, and the inmates were beaten on their back and heads with a shovel. My understanding is that all died following this abuse.

    I visited some of the surrounding barracks and found live inmates who had hidden during the massacre. They were astounded and appeared to be struggling to understand what was happening. Some were in their 5 tier bunks and some were wandering about.”

    http://www.89infdivww2.org/ohrdruf/liberate.htm

    Would certainly give me nightmares. Patton and Eisenhauer visited this site shortly after its “liberation” and the horror was so overwhelming Patton puked.

    lots more factual first hand information on the 89th infantry division site.

  158. markg8 said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:43

    Vino Veritas you give them way too much credit. It’s 2008 not 2004. Quit acting like they’re some juggernaut, they’re not. Their readership is down, their numbers are dwindling, and their dreams are dying. They are still dangerous but it’s up to us finally disabuse the rest of the nation that these kind of people ever produce good leaders. Wringing our hands and pretending their all powerful is ridiculous. You can counter them by simply buying a sandwich or a cup of coffee.

  159. Warren Street said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:45

    From the 89th INF DIV website:

    Central Europe: Ohrdruf

    At Ohrdruf, the 255th Regiment and the 4th Armored Division pried a scab from one of Germany’s ugliest sores when they captured the largest concentration camp liberated by an American force up to that time. It was located in a loathsome barracks area near a large army post. The occupants of the camp, mostly slave labor from Eastern Europe, had been callously starved and beaten to death, or shot down at the whim of their SS overseers. Men who had died in the camp had been buried in a huge common pit near the barracks area. When news came of the approach of the Americans, belated attempts were made to cover up the horrors of the place.

    Prisoners were forced to exhume the decomposed bodies and cremate them on a makeshift grid of railroad rails set up near the pit. With American Armor only a few hours away, the SS guards had abandoned their project in a grisly state of half-completion, machine-gunned those prisoners too weak to walk in the courtyard of the concentration compound, and had fled. One guard attempted to disguise himself as a slave laborer but as he hurried through the gate along with a few prisoners who managed to escape during the confusion he was recognized by a former victim and killed on the spot with a heavy truck crank.

    Included among the dead shot in the courtyard when the GIs entered was the body of an American flyer that had been brought to Ohrdruf from a Polish prison camp and had become ill en route. He was shot as he lay on a stretcher. Dusted over with lime, the bodies of about forty victims were stacked in a “beating shed” where they had died while receiving the customary punishment for minor infractions of the rules: 115 strokes on the naked back with either a cudgel or a heavy, sharp-bladed shovel. One of the ward bosses of the camp estimated the number of men buried in the common pit at 9,000. Shortly after the arrival of the armor and infantry, the Burgermeister of Ohrdruf and his wife were forced to visit the place. They disclaimed any definite knowledge of what had happened there but committed suicide that night.

  160. Marita said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:46

    I just read the comment thread over there. Those people are disgusting. And also not terribly bright. I can’t believe how much hand-wringing they’re doing over a middle initial.

    I haven’t done a lot of genealogy, but I have done enough to know that the census records aren’t terribly accurate. Comparing individual family units as they move from census to census, there are name misspellings, age errors, and even a case or two where the census taker recorded the gender wrong. On top of that, the information in the databases doesn’t always match the information that’s actually on the census form (you can see the actual scans of these at some websites, if you subscribe), probably due to transcription errors, or difficulties reading the handwriting. It isn’t that hard to imagine a middle initial being inaccurate.

    Beyond that, I can’t believe that instead of thanking Mr. Kitchell for his service, and showing him the respect he’s due, they’re questioning his courage and looking for any gotcha they can find because they don’t like his politics. Weasely asshats, the whole lot of them.

  161. Me said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:47

    This one’s hitting the blog bigtime: it’s now the subject of a recommended diary over at DKos.

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/29/12757/9330/971/524828

  162. rdxtion said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:48

    I sent the webmaster an email thanking him for his site and they responded that they “were not and will not be intimidated”. I bet it’s easy to stand up to wingnuts when you’ve experienced fighting the Nazis.

  163. t4toby said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:51

    To: markkitchell

    Subject: Thank You.

    My grandfather died in the Battle of the Bulge and I just wanted to say how indebted our country is to your service.

    It seems that some people have forgotten, or have never known the meaning of sacrifice.

    Thank you.

    Toby

    To:Toby

    Re: Thank You

    Thank you. They did not and will not intimidate us!

    Can we hire these guys out for all of our Shorters?

  164. t4toby said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:52

    I’ll bet they have to send the same response because they are being deluged with positive comments.

    The country smells a rat…

  165. Argive said,

    May 29, 2008 at 18:55

    Thank you for your service to your country, Mr. Kitchell. And thank you for your ability to put cowardly chickenhawks in their place in a most direct and forthright manner.

  166. julia said,

    May 29, 2008 at 19:00

    My FIL was with the men who liberated Dachau. I’ve seen the pictures (it’s OK, he was a combat photographer. He was allowed to have a camera).

    He’s a rockribbed Republican and extremely conservative. I asked him once what he thought about deniers.

    He’s almost ninety. If I were any of these assholes, I wouldn’t want to face him.

  167. tb said,

    May 29, 2008 at 19:00

    That can’t be right- a guy who comments on “sweetness & light” says it was “just a work camp”, which doesn’t sound too bad. I’m also told that other places, liberated by different troops, were a lot worse, so walking into this shouldn’t have been any big deal, unless you’re some kind of “Sheehanite” liberal pussy.

  168. Raymond Kitchell FTW! : A Different Street said,

    May 29, 2008 at 19:03

    [...] Via Thers at Eschaton, a lovely bit from Sadly, No!, about the frantic efforts of a right-wing blogger to breathe life into a non-controversy, and the response from the owner of a WWII veterans’ site. [...]

  169. Arky H8r of VurdPress said,

    May 29, 2008 at 19:16

    The wingnuts are missing the point of Obama’s initial statements (which were about veterans’ medical care not about claiming hero status for his uncle) because they want to live in a fantasy world where war is uniformly glorious and righteous.

    Missing or studiously leaping around with their hands over their ears shouting “LA LA LA I CAN’T HEEEEAR YOOOOOU!”

    Maybe that was the initial cunning plan: “We won’t mention PTSD, we’ll go after the mistake.” Because off course it would be too much to just StFu and go back to worrying about DhimmiDonuts. When facts began to fall fast and hard (Payne did liberate a concentration camp after all) because they can’t StFu to save their lives, they decided they’d prove Payne wasn’t there.

    While this was going on Neo-Nazis lifted their snouts, smelled a welcoming audience, came creeping along and started a happy Hitleresque group wank about the distinctions between various concentration camps that even people who study this shit for a living wouldn’t make.

    In the midst of this and muttering about the possibly non-existent uncle they got not one, not two, but three well deserved spankings from a guy I’d like to shake by the hand. Shock! Horror! Whoooop! Whoooop! We’re under attack! Raise the moats, make sure the bubble is sealed! Dive, dive into Mom’s basement!!

    So now, because they can’t StFu they’re playing with Brown Shirts and insulting guys that didn’t just fight a war but for dessert they got to look at still more shit that I admit would make me pull my brain out of my ear and stomp on it.

    And now they’re stuck because these screw ups will drop that extra 50 pounds, throw away the Cheetos, join the military and grow wings and fly to the Moon before they’re able admit that they were horribly wrong and terribly offensive to (fuck yeah) the greatest generation and survivors of the Holocaust.

    If there is a God some bored reporter is this very moment staring at the crap over at sweetnlow and thinking this is a story with everything: WWII vets, the Holocaust, angry wingtards and Obama.

    Fingers crossed, candles lit.

  170. g said,

    May 29, 2008 at 19:16

    What exactly do they mean by “Sheehanite?”

    Future historians will want to know.

  171. Arky H8r of VurdPress said,

    May 29, 2008 at 19:17

    Not moats, drawbridges.

    Sheesh.

  172. tb said,

    May 29, 2008 at 19:19

    I bet it’s easy to stand up to wingnuts when you’ve experienced fighting the Nazis.

    It seems that you would be wrong about that: I’m also told that the 89th Infantry saw “only a couple of months” of combat against the Germans, which doesn’t sound too bad.

  173. Alex said,

    May 29, 2008 at 19:31

    Hilarious.

    And yet, like the Black Knight, they persist in claiming they are still in the fight and that Obama is lying about his uncle serving in the 89th Division.

  174. cpeterka said,

    May 29, 2008 at 19:34

    Thank you, Sir !!
    Excellent Aim.
    Ya’ Got’em Right Between the two small brain cells he may have had.
    Oh, and Thanks for saving our butt’s back in WWII.

  175. OneMan said,

    May 29, 2008 at 19:42

    “The wingnuts are missing the point of Obama’s initial statements (which were about veterans’ medical care not about claiming hero status for his uncle)…”

    Y’know what? I had lost sight of that one too. I won’t echo Arky’s fine post above but I will say that once again, Obama was illustrating yet another distinction he holds to the current administration and, by extension, McJowel.

    The fact that Sydney went so far as to echo the RW talking point that offering GIs a college education would “encourage them to leave the service” just floors me. Wasn’t this fuckstick in the military? So much for “brothers in arms.”

    Stories that psychologists are being told to under-diagnose PTSD to save money is what should be in the fucking headlines, not whether or not Obama’s great uncle really liberated a concentration camp. Fucking press.

    Gaah! I’ve done it again, no funny. Dan Reihl’s head looks like a big toe with a wig.

  176. Danny Doom’s Booze Cabinet » Blog Archive » Something I’m Glad About said,

    May 29, 2008 at 19:42

    [...] don’t have to do silly things like pretend that Obama is “gaffe-prone” or try and compare Auschwitz to Buchenwald in order to diminish an Obama relative’s military service (Buchenwald was not as bad!). Nor do I have to pretend that I am outraged by things that really [...]

  177. mike said,

    May 29, 2008 at 19:47

    Raymond Kitchell = American hero

  178. Mr. Unhinged said,

    May 29, 2008 at 19:54

    For the full scoop on Cigarskunk, visit here: (NSFW)

    http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Cigarskunk

    And until Cigarskunk can prove otherwise, I believe it is safe to assume that the young woman on his lap in the following picture is younger than the legal age of consent and has been sexually molested by Cigarskunk:

    http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Image:Gas_mask.jpg

  179. Mooser said,

    May 29, 2008 at 19:59

    A fruitful line for further investigation would be how Payne joined up in WW2 and made sure he was sent to liberate a Nazi “work camp” to help Obama’s Presidential bid.
    Has anyone looked into this?

  180. Righteous Bubba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 20:01

    I believe it is safe to assume that the young woman on his lap in the following picture is younger than the legal age of consent and has been sexually molested by Cigarskunk:

    Um, funny or apropos: you decide which it’s not!

  181. Mr. Unhinged said,

    May 29, 2008 at 20:07

    It’s certainly funnier and more appropriate than calling a WWII vet a “Sheehanite Assclown” and cavorting with Holocaust deniers.

  182. Grace Nearing said,

    May 29, 2008 at 20:21

    Okay, so we have supposedly learned that it was Obama’s Great Uncle that liberated a sub-section of Buchenwald, not an uncle at Auschwitz

    Gilbert supposedly learned the hard way. A man so sloppy in his thinking and careless with his adverb placement got what he deserved.

  183. Righteous Bubba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 20:27

    It’s certainly funnier and more appropriate

    You know, I think I take that grandmarm scolding back. I don’t think I read what you wrote properly. It’s a fine line I spose. Here’s hoping it was a bleak comment about the nature of evidence.

  184. mat said,

    May 29, 2008 at 20:30

    Please, please, please never link DailyKOS ever again! I followed the link in one of the comments above and I feel like gouging out my eyes for doing so.

    What a bunch of creepy and humorless nags! Argh! Wingnuts are crazy, but there’s an entertainment value to their insanity.

    But sober, self-righteous, and super-serious liberals are just downright creeeeeeeepy. What a bunch of bitchy fussbudgets. All they do is constantly argue over the stupidest semantics and pettiest details imaginable. SHUT UP! ENOUGH ALREADY!

    KOS has the worst blog denizens EVER.

    …OK, maybe not as bad as Little Green Footballs. But that goes without saying.

    /rant

  185. Chris said,

    May 29, 2008 at 20:31

    Please explain the ‘Kerners are go!” reference.

  186. t4toby said,

    May 29, 2008 at 20:34

    The whole Kerning issue from the Dan Rather memo that proved that Bush was a stinking draft dodger.

  187. D. Aristophanes said,

    May 29, 2008 at 20:52

    ‘Kerners’ are right wing bloggers who are so desperate to recapture their shining moment — the questionable debunking of Bush AWOL documents as forgeries, which led to the cancellation of a CBS News report and hastened the retirement of Dan Rather — that they dumpster-dive for another ‘scandal’ at every opportunity. The ‘debunking’ was conducted via dubious and amateurish comparisons of modern vs. early 1970s typography, hence ‘kerning’, a typographical term.

    See, for example, the hounding of the Frost family over their son’s participation in a pro-S-Chip ad campaign. Or the latest outrage-a-thon over Dunkin’ Donuts and ‘terrorist’ scarves. Or the Jamil Hussein affair. Or assorted belchings over ‘Photoshopped’ wire service photos from Lebanon. Etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum.

  188. ahem said,

    May 29, 2008 at 20:58

    Kerners: unable to tell the difference between fact-checking and privacy-violating harrassment since 2004. Or earlier, for that matter — the ‘track you down and fuck you up’ approach has been a mainstay of wingnut pile-ons.

  189. not even an mba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 20:59

    And now the hybridization of Kerners and Malkin will lead to furtive typesetters hiding in bushes and design new fonts for fancy granite countertops. Hooray for evolution!

  190. ArchPundit » Blog Archive » Today’s Tosser: I Love America Too said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:00

    [...] Atrios loves it and points out why and links to Sadly No!: [...]

  191. cowalker said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:09

    Arky H8tr of VurdPress said:

    “Maybe that was the initial cunning plan: ‘We won’t mention PTSD, we’ll go after the mistake.’”

    Ah, but one wingnut DID keep a broad perspective. He said that Obama’s references to PTSD were insulting to veterans because when Obama says they suffer from PTSD it’s the same as calling them loony. Yep. To hell with all the efforts made by the experienced and informed to get veterans with PTSD to think of themselves as wounded warriors, as entitled to medical help as a soldier with a fractured skull or burns from an IED. Forget the struggle to destigmatize the act of getting help for our soldiers with mental distress. When Obama expresses sympathy and concern for veterans with PTSD, he’s saying they’re loony, and if the veterans agree that they’re suffering from PTSD, they’re agreeing that they’re loony.

    That’s what Rush Limbaugh said on his show between noon and 1 PM (probably about 12:30) yesterday, May 28th. I don’t know how to get hold of a transcript or a recording. I wouldn’t pay Limpballs one cent for access to his site. I think veterans deserve an apology big time from that greedy gasbag.

  192. William Teach said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:10

    Personally, as one of those cwazy right wingnuts who has covered the story a bit, I think a few people are going overboard. Obama either completely misspoke on what was his families history, or, he was just trying to score cheap political points. I’d lean towards the latter. A politician is a politician, whether left or right.

    Chalk it up to being a patronizing and aggrandizing type gaffe, and move on.

  193. Susan of Texas said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:12

    Do as you please but leave us out of it.

    You people have been chewing up and spitting out servicemen and women right and left. Live with the criticism or slink away like the coward you are.

  194. Darkness said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:17

    >Obama’s family helped liberate the Nazi camps while Bush’s family helped finance the Nazis who built the camps.

    But WE KNOW which one is the real patriot.

  195. sagra said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:30

    Their readership is down, their numbers are dwindling, and their dreams are dying.

    But that’s when the wingnuttiness reaches its peak concentration. All the fair-weather whackos have drifted off to play World of Warcraft or argue on sports blogs or whatever, and the only ones left are the true-true-true believers.

  196. tb said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:32

    Here’s how William Teach has “covered” this horseshit non-controversy:

    Obama said. “That’s why this idea of making sure that every single veteran, when they are discharged, are screened for post-traumatic stress disorder and given the mental health services that they need – that’s why it’s so important.”

    So veteran’s are all nuts, Obama?

    Yeah, that’s what he saying. What a fucking douchebag.

  197. Bullsmith said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:33

    Teach,

    How about instead of chalking up Obama’s broken-telephone family history as “patronizing and aggrandizing”, we instead chalk up the folks who’ve “covered this a bit” as making a holocaust-denying and WWII-vet-denigrating type gaffe? Seems a bit more in perspective somehow.

  198. TheFlamingoKing said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:41

    Gotta love the irony of listening to a bunch of wingnuts who never fought in a war talk trash about a living war veteran.

  199. sagra said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:44

    Kerners: “We can prove it’s a forgery! See? We still have the receipt!”

  200. I Want To Play said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:45

    Comments are closed at the wingnut blog.

    Why comments closed, wingnuts?

    I want to play.

  201. tb said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:45

    By the way, Teach, what’s wrong with your brain? You make your nouns plural by adding an apostrophe, then you use the plural of “family” to make it posessive. Your command of your native language is completely fucked.

  202. Susan of Texas said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:46

    I can see the headlines now: ‘Conservative Traitors Persecute Our Veterans; “The KKK and Neo-Nazis were right,” Sez Republican Putz.’

    Between J. Goldberg (!) saying Hitler was a puppy-loving granola eater to morons denigrating Nazi atrocities to attempt to make Obama look bad, the conservatives are getting into bed with some nasty folk.

    I know of some of these people. They don’t like wannabes or people who try to use them. They sleep with their knives. They get arrested holding smoking guns over the corpse of their meth customers. You don’t want to piss them off, believe me. Even more, you don’t want them deciding they like you.

  203. g said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:49

    Obama either completely misspoke on what was his families history, or, he was just trying to score cheap political points.

    Teach, Obama’s story was, in essence : “I had a family member who, during WWI witnessed terrible things at [Infamous Site] and it affected his mental health, and the support he needed when he returned wasn’t widely available. That’s why we need to care for our returning veterans.”

    so what part of that is “completely misspoken?” Oh, he named the wrong Infamous Site. I guess the tragedy is that there were enough such sites for family stories to be able to confuse two of them.

    Or are you deeply troubled that he called his Great-Uncle “uncle”? Is that what’s puckering your brow?

    How about pointing to the part of his words that was a “cheap political score”? The part about calling for support for returning veterans, when his political rival opposes that?

  204. W L said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:56

    Re “Sheehanite”: Cindy Sheehan is a woman whose son was in the army and died in Iraq; she spoke out against the war until she was hounded into silence. “Sheehanite” is a wingnut code phrase, with only a tenuous connection to Ms. Sheehan as far as I can tell; it’s used (I think) to suggest that anyone who objects to any war does so only out of cowardice.

  205. g said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:58

    Chalk it up to being a patronizing and aggrandizing type gaffe,

    In what world is it self-aggrandizing for someone to say their family member suffered from trauma?

    Although since wingnuts are such self-aggrandizing drama queens they become upset by scarves, perhaps it’s a bit of projection.

  206. Susan of Texas said,

    May 29, 2008 at 22:02

    They don’t want to hear war is not Glorious and people die horribly and kill innocent people. Where’s the fun and ego-stroking in that? How does it make them feel good?? It doesn’t, so it doesn’t exist.

    Lazy, self-indulgent monsters. They are too afraid to fight, to stupid to lead, and too crazy to get a life. A few centuries ago they would have been looking down women’s dresses looking for witches’ marks, or worshipping meteorites as a Message from God, like Joe Dirt’s poop.

  207. g said,

    May 29, 2008 at 22:04

    Speaking of confusing Holocaust sites, how many of you, without cheating by looking it up can provide the right answer to these questions:

    which camp did Anne Frank die in?

    Which Civil War battle resulted in more dead, Shiloh or Gettysburg?

    Which German city bombing resulted in more civilian dead, Hamburg or Dresden?

    I don’t know the answer to these myself, having not looked them up yet.

    So how about you, Teach?

    See how easy it is to do?

  208. Jacques said,

    May 29, 2008 at 22:15

    Reminiscent of Malkin trying to claim that Kerry shot himself in the knee, and (for once) Tweety calling the cunt on it.

  209. Righteous Bubba said,

    May 29, 2008 at 22:18

    You can’t say “for once” any more after the Kevin James incident.

  210. I Want To Play said,

    May 29, 2008 at 22:19

    Hmmmm… seems they’ve re-opened comments on that thread. Time to go directly to the source and see just how interested in “dialogue” and “facts” the wingnuts REALLY are.

    I’d be interested to hear from any whose comments are wished into the cornfield.

  211. Smut Clyde said,

    May 29, 2008 at 22:29

    furtive typesetters hiding in bushes and design new fonts for fancy granite countertops
    Stick to Gill Perpetua Bold, sez I.

  212. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    May 29, 2008 at 22:40

    William Teach said,

    May 29, 2008 at 21:10

    Personally, as one of those cwazy right wingnuts who has covered the story a bit, I think a few people are going overboard. Obama either completely misspoke on what was his families history, or, he was just trying to score cheap political points. I’d lean towards the latter. A politician is a politician, whether left or right.

    Chalk it up to being a patronizing and aggrandizing type gaffe, and move on.

    Crawl back under your rock.

  213. mike said,

    May 29, 2008 at 22:50

    a post on the “riehlworldview” message board:

    “Do you ever wonder how your politics have left you arguing with 80 year-old WWII veterans about what they saw in Nazi concentration camps? If it were me, that would cause quite a bit of introspection about my direction in life. But, that’s just me.”

    that’s gotta count as the greatest followup bitchslap in history.

  214. I Want To Play said,

    May 29, 2008 at 22:56

    I can now confirm that the “re-opening” of comments on the wingnut thread was a sham, pro forma, at best. They won’t approve any comments which take them to task for denigrating veterans.

  215. SkippyFlipjack said,

    May 29, 2008 at 22:59

    Mat writes:
    > Please, please, please never link DailyKOS ever again! I followed the
    > link in one of the comments above and I feel like gouging out my eyes for
    > doing so. What a bunch of creepy and humorless nags! Argh! Wingnuts
    > are crazy, but there’s an entertainment value to their insanity.

    Mat, there’s no way they’re worse than the Freepers, for one simple reason — they let dissenters post. The Freepers will yank your account if you so much hint at an opposing view. They’ve really gone all Colonel Kurtz over there.

  216. fadgeophile said,

    May 29, 2008 at 23:12

    DailyKos isn’t so bad if you just read the articles and links but avoid the comments. Hunter, Darksyde, MCJoan, et al. are good writers.

    I don’t comment anywhere that requires registration. Seems to be the type of place you have to apologize if you have an off-topic comment which you all know is not my style.

  217. tb said,

    May 29, 2008 at 23:12

    I haven’t frequented DK in months, but assuming they are indeed totally out of their minds, so what? They’re your friends. Shut up about them.

  218. Lesley said,

    May 29, 2008 at 23:18

    Am I imagining things or clicking on the wrong post or have the ‘tards over at Sightless & Lame removed the record of emails from Kitchell? I clicked on the link from the email DA posted and can’t see the Kitchell “drop dead” emails anymore…
    http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obama-claims-his-uncle-liberated-auschwitz

  219. Lesley said,

    May 29, 2008 at 23:21

    Or perhaps he deleted the page…it seems to be gone.

  220. Arky H8r of VurdPress said,

    May 29, 2008 at 23:23

    To hell with all the efforts made by the experienced and informed to get veterans with PTSD to think of themselves as wounded warriors, as entitled to medical help as a soldier with a fractured skull or burns from an IED.

    WingTards came close to that already. Don’t you remember the tsk, tsking when the Walter Reed story broke? “So whut and why talk about it and they’re tough and yer encouraging the terrists.” I assure you that talking about physically injured soldiers will become terribly disrespectful of our brave service members as society foots the bill for Bush’s Most Awesome Desert Adventure for decades to come. And who could forget Billdo O’Lielly’s greatest hit: “Homeless vets are junkies and criminals!”

    Actually, I wonder if there has already been some wounded soldier snarking on Planet FuckNut. VoteVets.Org made a couple of ads that featured a guy who lost his arm and one who was in a wheelchair. I don’t know and I’m not going to look.

  221. fadgeophile said,

    May 29, 2008 at 23:24

    Its still there, Lesley, if you follow the link at the top of this page marked ‘dutifully fired off an e-mail’.

  222. I Want To Play said,

    May 29, 2008 at 23:25

    Wrong thread, Lesley… try this…

    http://sweetness-light.com/archive/a-query-to-the-89th-divisions-website#comments

    But, as I said, they’re not posting any more comments. They just disappear into the ether.

  223. fadgeophile said,

    May 29, 2008 at 23:28

    The nice thing about all of this is that it is forcing people to face the horror of that horrible time again. Just the pictures I have seen today following this story are more than I have ever looked at in my life.

    Fucking monsters!

  224. Lesley said,

    May 29, 2008 at 23:28

    Thank you. That’s the one that was linked by DA in the copy of the offensive email. One worth preserving a cached copy of.

  225. Djur said,

    May 29, 2008 at 23:57

    Personally, I’ve always known my great-aunts and great-uncles as just “aunts” and “uncles”. Obviously, I’m aware of the formal term for the relationship, but it’s just not one I use often. And I’m fairly sure I’m not alone in this. (I think it’s because since great-aunt X was “Aunt Foo” to my mother, she was “Aunt Foo” to me as well.)

  226. Mazareth said,

    May 30, 2008 at 0:14

    A little late to the discussion… I visited Dachau, Auschwitz and Buchenwald. The “it was just was just a workcamp” meme is disgusting.

    I majored in German Lit and Culture and did two years of grad school in Salzburg. As much as I love Germany and Austria and my friends from there, I will always have a certain amount of ambivalence about that choice.

    You’d be surprised at how many Holocaust deniers have revealed themselves to me when they find out I speak fluent German. At times I’ve even had denialist literature mailed or handed to me!

    As to Obama calling his grand Uncle “Uncle,” that’s how we do it my family. What real person actually calls their grand or great uncles and aunts by their actual relationship to you?? That goes for cousins too!

    I’m embarrassed to have to share a country with these people!

    Mark (DFH) from Wisconsin

  227. smut clyde said,

    May 30, 2008 at 0:42

    Like 90% of this administration, they don’t have the foggiest idea what we went through or what we saw at Ohrdruf.
    Is Raymond Kitchell being generous here, or does he seriously believe that the other 10% of the administration does have some concept of what it was like for the 355th Infantry Regiment?

  228. Dave in ME said,

    May 30, 2008 at 0:44

    Expect more and more of this rubbish as November approaches. The awesomeness of the Obama campaign has been the speed with which they bitchslap Republicans back where they belong. It appears that way of dealing with Republicans is rubbing off on all sorts of folks sick of their stupid asstarded ways.

  229. MzNicky said,

    May 30, 2008 at 0:49

    Djur: Good point. My nieces’ kids refer to me as “Aunt Nicky.” And by cracky, I dast the l’il whippersnappers to call me “GREAT” Aunt Nicky! Ribber-shibber.

  230. I Want To Play said,

    May 30, 2008 at 0:53

    This just gets better and better… not only will they not approve any more comments for that thread, I’ve now been banned from the server.

    “Forbidden
    You don’t have permission to access /archive/a-query-to-the-89th-divisions-website on this server.

    Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. ”

    Wingnuts deleting thread in 5… 4… 3…

  231. nikto said,

    May 30, 2008 at 0:57

    Punch a wingnut today.

    Punch it again, harder.

    Remember:
    It’s GOOD for them.

    EGFR
    (Everything’s Good For Republicans)

  232. Doctorb said,

    May 30, 2008 at 1:11

    Yep, I’ve always called great-aunts and great-uncles “Aunt/Uncle so-and-so”. And Rudy Giuliani probably doesn’t refer to his first wife as his second cousin, either.

  233. Buchenwald, not Auschwitz Obama lies again - Page 9 - Debate Politics Forums said,

    May 30, 2008 at 1:56

    [...] Mr. Payne was there. That comment was a result of a email sent to then, as explained here: Best Bitch Slap Ever Some righties could not figure out who Obama’s uncle was, because they where unsure of his middle [...]

  234. Me said,

    May 30, 2008 at 2:05

    Please, please, please never link DailyKOS ever again! I followed the link in one of the comments above and I feel like gouging out my eyes for doing so. What a bunch of creepy and humorless nags!

    You’re partially correct, but there are still quite a few free-thinkers left among the commentariat at DKos (or as I’ve lately taken to calling it, “My Cat Died”).

    I find many of the diaries quite worthwhile. Skip the comment sections and you’ll be fine.

  235. Dusty said,

    May 30, 2008 at 2:05

    This made my day. Thank Buddha you folks read those nitwits.I would lose my sanity within a nanosecond.

  236. Me said,

    May 30, 2008 at 2:11

    Oh, and I should add to my comment above, re: Kos–it’s still one of the best ways to get stories like this a much wider circulation. What better way to humiliate the chickenhawks who are harassing WWII vets? Top of the reclist at Kos is a good start. Now thousands of people know what losers they are. I think that’s a good thing.

  237. Smiling Mortician said,

    May 30, 2008 at 2:30

    And Rudy Giuliani probably doesn’t refer to his first wife as his second cousin, either.

    Thanks, doc. The laugh-to-cry ratio in this thread was a bit off balance.

  238. Arky H8r of VürdPress said,

    May 30, 2008 at 3:01

    Full disclosure: In my family aunts and uncles (Standard and Great) are addressed by their first names. If I were going to tell you about my grandmother’s sister who is named Elizabeth I’d refer to my aunt Elizabeth (if I remembered).

    But I’m a Islahomofascist.

  239. The Astounding Truth the Emm Ess Emm Doesn’t Want You to Know! § Unqualified Offerings said,

    May 30, 2008 at 3:40

    [...] Barack Obama’s great-uncle . . . was a Muslim. Posted by Jim Henley @ 9:40 pm, Filed under: Main « « Bah | Main | [...]

  240. Anne Laurie said,

    May 30, 2008 at 4:11

    I once heard a neighbor encourage the local blowhard to further explore his grievances with a man known for his lack of patience: “Go ahead, ‘cuz he’s gonna rip out your rectum and pull it down over your head. And then you can wear it for a clown collar so’s everyone will know exactly what you are!… ”

    I believe Mr. Kitchell has just provided an internet-safe demonstration of this particular martial tactic. Bravo, sir!

  241. Dr Zen said,

    May 30, 2008 at 4:42

    “Well, the time is now, only 50 years later. There are those who would tell you WWII of the 89th Division that what you saw at Ohrdruf and at other camps never happened the way you said it did. The atrocities never happened. The tortures. The hangings. The starvation. The brutality. It never happened and YOU NEVER SAW IT!! They would take your fight for goodness and freedom and call it futile, worthless. Your sacrifices would have no meaning if all that you fought for were nothing more than a tale of someone’s imaginings!”

    I am thankful for the service of Mr Kitchell and of Obama’s family members.

  242. neal peart said,

    May 30, 2008 at 4:56

    Geddy, Alex and I bestow the Order of Canada upon Mr. Kitchell. Well done good sir!

  243. George Johnston said,

    May 30, 2008 at 7:59

    What will God’s Little Wingnuts say next? That Obama’s uncle attended a concentration camp memorial in a ski cap and parka?

  244. Comrade Rutherford said,

    May 30, 2008 at 16:49

    William Teach said:
    “Obama either completely misspoke on what was his families history, or, he was just trying to score cheap political points. I’d lean towards the latter. A politician is a politician, whether left or right.”

    At first I was going to say, “If he was addressing a crowd of Jewish voters you might get me to agree, but he was addressing a group of vets and talking about the need NOW for more PTSD counseling for ALL vets.

    But then I went to his site and read some other comments William Teach posted, and now I see he’s another Nazi-lover. He loves Bush and McCain, and Bush, as we all know, is the grandson of an actual American Nazi that funded the creation of ‘work’ camps such as Ohrdruf and believed that America should have adopted the Nazi way.

    Teach claims to not be an insane Republican, offering an example of not liking Rush, Savage, et al, calling them haters, but on the same page is his own examples of blind hatred exactly as the radio hosts espouse.

    The Nazi-loving Republicans are playing down Ohrdruf as not being as bad when in fact it was far worse. Now I am pissed off…

    As Germany was losing territory to the Allies, they were emptying out all the camps that were about to be captured. Just the very day before Obama’s uncle arrived, the Nazis forced the living prisoners to march 32 miles to another camp, randomly shooting the prisoners the whole way.

    Ohrdruf was SO BAD that Eisenhower, Patton and Bradley specifically went there. Ohrdruf was so bad that Patton BARFED!

    And the Right wingers tell the world, they don’t think this was that bad, that Obama’s uncle must have been a wuss for hiding out after he returned home. Implying that they are more manly than Patton, or that they wish that Bush would do exactly the same thing to the 70% of the Americans that disagree with our Nazi president.

    As I said I am pissed off and no longer interested in using euphamisms.

    President Bush IS a Nazi, that is both self-evident and well documented.

    Supporters of Bush and McCain are Nazi-lovers.

  245. Pilot of the Red State Lion said,

    May 30, 2008 at 20:27

    Activate InterTubes! Drudge Report Connected! Outrage Levels Up! Kerners are Go! LET’S GO WANKER FORCE!

  246. Sadly, No! » Furrygate: The Furrying said,

    May 30, 2008 at 21:08

    [...] enigma that isn’t the military record of Barack Obama’s great-uncle, they’ve had their ears boxed by a WWII vet, been easily proven wrong in their speculative fantasies and come this close to breaking bread with [...]

  247. tontocal said,

    May 30, 2008 at 21:42

    I took a gander of an actual pic of him and I must say, my penis just threw up.

  248. Jean Arf said,

    May 31, 2008 at 16:20

    Cut these guys some slack. Until you discover that Mom has forgotten to restock the basement fridge with Mountain Dew, you’ll never know what PTSD is really like.

  249. Southern Beale said,

    May 31, 2008 at 22:29

    oh my god. I am amazed.

  250. David Lloyd-Jones said,

    May 31, 2008 at 23:28

    Three words for my fellow Jews:

    Chaney, Schwerner, Goodman.

  251. Nancy Irving said,

    June 1, 2008 at 11:33

    Here’s another howler from that comment thread:
    ————————
    # SG
    May 30th, 2008 at 9:04 pm

    For the record, I have been sent the following information purportedly about Mark Kitchell, who started and runs the 89th Infantry Division site:

    If you have any doubts about Mark Kitchell and his politics a simple Google search lets you know where he stands…

    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0457627/
    http://sanfranciscolocations.c…..spsize=640
    http://www.firstrunfeatures.com/markkitchell.html
    http://oldschoolreviews.com/rev_90/berkeley.htm

    A location scout for Hollywood, Mr. Kitchell has served as a production assistant on the softcore porn movie Malibu Beach. The rest of his impressive resume was work on documentaries on Bob Dylan and Berkeley.

    Berkely In The Sixties glorifies the socialist, feminist, and Black Panther movements on campus.

    He dedicates much time to drug dealer and murderer Huey P. Newton of the Black Panthers — so much so, that he receives special thanks from Spike Lee for a movie on Newton.

    The Cindy Sheehan comment more than fits when you glorify a university and town that have deserted America, the military and faith. They replaced it with hate, bigotry, and their own form of rigid ideology.

    These are the kind of people who are questioning our patriotism for simply asking whether a site dedicated to the division in question had any record of Mr. Obama’s great uncle.

    [Please note: I have been emailed by Mr. Mark Kitchell, who says that he is not this Mark Kitchell.

    I apologize for the error.]
    ————————–
    Arghhhhhh!

  252. Pamela Troy said,

    June 2, 2008 at 0:59

    What’s really interesting is what they left out.

    Filmmaker Mark Kitchell’s Oscar nomination.

    So much for reliability.

  253. web said,

    June 3, 2008 at 2:04

    Good points, but make it more generally

  254. Jennifer said,

    June 3, 2008 at 13:10

    Comparing individual family units as they move from census to census, there are name misspellings, age errors, and even a case or two where the census taker recorded the gender wrong.

    Just a nugget to add, but when we were researching our family tree, my grandmother was surprised to see that her grandfather was listed as a white man, when the man was as black as Richard Roundtree in “Shaft in Africa.”

    Relying solely on census records? Not smart.

  255. Worldwalker said,

    June 5, 2008 at 22:55

    My Aunt Helen was my great-aunt. As was my Aunt Mary. As was my Aunt Anna. It wasn’t until I was about 10 years old that I figured out the difference in relationship between them and their nephew, Uncle Joe. I never addressed them, during their long lifetimes, as “Great-Aunt” any more than I addressed Aunt Helen’s son as “Second Cousin Once Removed”. To this day, I refer to them, not only to family but to anyone and everyone, as simply my aunts. I don’t say that my Great-Aunt Mary gave me a silver dollar when we visited her, or that my Great-Aunt Helen had a mulberry tree in her back yard that made everything sticky with squished mulberries, or that Second Cousin Once Removed Ernie won a year’s supply of ice cream in a church raffle. Aunt Mary gave me those silver dollars, and Aunt Helen and Uncle Frankie eventually cut down that mulberry tree when it rotted out inside. They were my aunts, and their husbands were my uncles, and their descendants were my cousins. I’ve got a grand-nephew now, and I’ll be pretty ticked if he ever (when he learns to talk) hangs a “great” on my name.

    What a bunch of wankers.

    If the worst they can come up with about Senator Obama is that he calls his great-uncles the same thing I called my great-uncles, I might just vote for him after all.

  256. Worldwalker said,

    June 5, 2008 at 23:30

    P.S. As for census records, unless you believe that Mary, Shirley, Winifred, Carol, Beverly, Bernice, Dorothy, Doris, Pearl, June, Helen, Lois, Ruth, Margaret, Claire, Betty, Ruby, Beryl, Allison, Ivy, Joyce, Elza, and Laurel were among the 1000 most popular names for boys in the 1920′s, as recorded by the Social Security Administration and reported by the name popularity page on the SSA website, I think you’ll have to admit that the government doesn’t always get the records exactly right. Mary came in at #381 for the boys, running somewhat behind John, Robert, and James on the girls’ side. Either there were a lot of boys named Mary and girls named John, or someone checked off the wrong box on the form a non-trivial number of times. If they can give sex changes to John and Mary, and list Junior as a valid name (#134), along with Buddy, Mac, Judge, and General, I think we can accept a certain degree of bureaucratic confusion over a middle initial. For that matter, I knew someone who didn’t actually have a middle name, and no middle initial until WW2. When he joined the Army, there were several other people with the same (fairly unusual) name and no middle initials, so they were assigned some. He got “C”.

  257. carlos flores said,

    June 18, 2008 at 22:09

    this is the best passage in the world

  258. Speg Mugma said,

    July 1, 2008 at 6:40

    Why should anything these little Hitler Youth say surprise anyone?
    They have been successful at vilifying the entire military which served
    during Vietnam and Gulf War I and the AMERICAN PEOPLE have gladly gleefully and willingly lapped it up like a kitten at the milk bowl only to chant, “More!, More!”

  259. BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Swift boat THIS! | My Zen Arcade said,

    July 7, 2008 at 0:11

    [...] I think I love these guys (sorry that I’m late on this one) [...]

  260. appletree » Blog Archive » Wingnut gets neutered by 89th Infantry Division said,

    October 20, 2008 at 5:33

    [...] personal information? Apparently, not Raymond Kitchell of the 89th Infantry Division, who sent this reply: Please crawl back under the rock you came out [...]

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  262. TBogg » 99 Problems said,

    October 11, 2009 at 23:26

    [...] has a history of abuse, although to be fair, he’s usually on the receiving end. 3 Comments [...]

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  265. ??? ???? said,

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