12
Oh my
Jonah, are you sure you want to ask this?
The Bush Legacy [Jonah Goldberg]
About a month ago, I called Ramesh in a panic because I’d forgotten that I was slated to do a Close-Up Foundation interview on the Bush legacy and I hadn’t thought too much about it. Fortunately, not only did Ramesh have some great thoughts, but I was wrong about the date — by a month (I’d entered it into my PDA wrong). Anyway, I’m doing the interview this Thursday and while I have my thoughts far better organized, I thought it’d be interesting to know what NRO readers think Bush’s legacy will be. Please send thoughts — hopefully constructive — to JonahResearch@AOL.com.
(Via.)
I highly encourage you all to send Jonah your thoughts on this matter, be they constructive or otherwise.
For my part, I think pictures speak more than a trillion-kabillion words, so I’ll let them speak for me. Ladies and gentlemen, the Bush Legacy:
To sum up: Bush has been a smarmy, destructive asshole for the past eight years and he has left the next president with an extremely large pile of shit to deal with. And you, Jonah, dutifully enabled the stupid SOB for years until you realized that he was starting to cost the GOP votes. Lest we forget:
From tax cuts (and deficits, alas), to his personal conviction on aborrtion, to aligning America with the historical tide of liberty in the world, Georrge W. Bush has proved that he’s a Reaganite, not a “Bushie.” He may not be a natural heir to Reagan, but that’s the point. The party is all Reaganite now. What better sign that this is now truly and totally the Gipper’s Party than the obvious conversion of George Bush’s own son?
Why should anybody ask for your opinion on anything, dude? You have less credibility than a 9/11 Truther. Because say what you will about the Truthers, but at least they don’t abandon their crazy and insane delusions just because they suddenly become politically inconvenient.
What a pathetic fraud.
UPDATE: Here’s a more succinct version of the Bush Legacy:
Thanks to Lesley for the idea.
DragonScholar said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:27
If a picture is worth a thousand words, you’ve given us ten thousand words worth of reasons not to listen to anyone who says Bush is doing a good job.
And sadly, people still will, despite the fact that the awful numbers and statistics boil into human suffering - and somehow, that seems not to reach the conservative mind.
DocAmazing said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:27
Actually, 9/11 Truthers have film evidence and a narrative that holds together.
Jonah hasn’t even got that.
J— said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:30
Re: the email address
I see Goldberg, like Sadly, No!, has his own research lab. Very impressive.
Righteous Bubba said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:31
Actually, 9/11 Truthers have film evidence
No they do not.
MajorKong said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:36
Brad - Well played sir. Well played.
JoshA said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:37
“JonahResearch@aol.com”- that slays me. Research is getting email from other people, sent to 1999—I mean to an AOL account.
Remember, Bush would be a conservative if he was more like Reagan—namely, if he offered amnesty to immigrants who broke immigration laws to be here, pulled American forces out of the mideast conflict they’re mired in, raised taxes to reduce the deficit, and negotiated directly with America’s enemies.
Right?
MzNicky said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:39
“… because I’d forgotten … I hadn’t thought too much about it …I was wrong about the date … I’d entered it into my PDA wrong … I thought it’d be interesting to know what NRO readers think …Please send thoughts …”
Holy cow, what a lazy useless sack o’ shit. Didn’t he try to get his “NRO readers” (all 3 of ‘em) to do his Liberal Fascism research for him too? I totally detect the smarmy stench of someone who’s always conned and/or paid others to do his work for him. Fucking wanker.
Brad said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:40
Didn’t he try to get his “NRO readers” (all 3 of ‘em) to do his Liberal Fascism research for him too?
Yes. And after reading the book for myself, it shows.
Hugely said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:41
what i’d like is a whole mediawiki devoted to the misdeeds of the gigantic fuckup twins: the GOP and the Bush Admin
theres so much out there that somebody ought to put it in a definitive place with a non partisan spin
t4toby said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:41
Countdown until AIDSMonkey shows up:
5…4…3…
(Jonah doesn’t have time to research because he spends too much time perfecting his sock monkey schtick.)
Lesley said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:44
Jonah Goldberg is a neoconservative fatshit.
Brad said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:44
Guys- I’m thinking of banning Saul. I’ve put up with his nonsense for a long time, but the HAAM nickname he’s using now is just beyond offensive. Thoughts?
Righteous Bubba said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:45
Thoughts?
You would not be removing any unanticipated content.
Lesley said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:45
t4toby, I believe that troll has been banned.
D.N. Nation said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:45
JoshA got to it first, but yeah. An AOL account. Some street cred there, Jonah.
Brad- A pathetic and lazy fraud. Getting the dittoheads to do his work for him? What exactly does this putz do all day but blog out ridiculous crap and half-assedly edit his pals?
MzNicky said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:46
I thought HAAM/Saul/Truth/whatever got banned in the last thread. If not, I’d vote that it’s way past time you booted his ass.
D.N. Nation said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:46
Brad- Saul = HAAM? Yeah, ban time. It’s a bit much.
Lesley said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:47
Brad, Gavin mentioned banning the aidsmonkey troll yesterday.
Matt said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:47
Napalming is too good for him, kick the lout out.
Tom Hilton said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:47
In fairness to Goldberg, it’s really hard to argue a proposition that’s completely indefensible. That’s why he has to get other people to do it for him.
D.N. Nation said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:48
And what’s with the meme that HAAM = Pantload?
Brad said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:49
Yes, he’s the same guy. I don’t think he’s at all sincere, btw. He’s a rather clumsy and untalented performance artist whose routine has grown very tiresome.
not even an mba said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:49
A better Ground Zero photo because it shows all the progress made in six years of rebuilding.
Abu Ghraib was indeed horrible, but Gitmo shouldn’t be ignored.
I don’t know what photo you could use for Patriot Act abuses and TSA.
Righteous Bubba said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:50
In fairness to Goldberg, it’s really hard to argue a proposition that’s completely indefensible.
My thoughts exactly. This guy’s an editor at THE conservative mouthpiece and he can’t come up with ideas for a Bush-legacy interview?
Vic said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:51
*Pic of Lewis Libby
*Pic of Bush playing (holding) a guitar during Katrina
*Pic of Mahmoud Ahmadoyoureallywanttohurtmejad being inaugurated
*Pic of al-Askari mosque that was “only kind of a little destroyed”
*Pic of eight-year calendar with all vacation days marked in red
*Pic of nothing (imaginary Nigerois yellowcake)
SamFromUtah said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:51
I think it’s a good idea to include all the Bushbot sycophantery in with the legacy, just to keep in mind how extreme it got and who was doing it. Jonah’s snippet there at the end of the post is a good start - plenty more in the Kippies over at the Poor Man.
“A man of extraordinary vision and brilliance approaching to genius…”
Lesley said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:51
I don’t think he’s at all sincere, btw.
No shit! Feeling any guilt at all about kicking his lame ass would be inappropriate. There are so many other worthy causes….supporting that asshole’s right to troll isn’t one of them.
Ripley said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:53
Shouldn’t we be sending our Bush Legacy thoughts to Jonah’s intern? You know, the one he hired for Liberal Fascism: From ribbed condoms to the snotty Best Buy cashier who asked for my zip code and wouldn’t tell me why…?
I don’t comment that often here, but I say ban the troll. Ban the fuck out of him!
Caitlin Sith said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:55
No Gonzo? No Libby? No bridge collapse? No global warming stats? Enron?
To be fair, you did forget Poland.
Ripley said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:55
I don’t know what photo you could use for Patriot Act abuses and TSA.
Not exactly applicable, but don’t forget “Free Speech Zones”.
Lesley said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:57
“I hadn’t thought too much” and “I was wrong” seem to be the key phrases in any Bush legacy summary.
Candy said,
May 12, 2008 at 21:58
Conservatives actually consider The Blubber Whale Doughboy to be one of the Republican party’s “thinkers”. Incredible.
I hope those who write Dear Jonah will share those emails with the Sadly readership. It will be especially interesting to see any replies received.
And yes, as uncomfortable as I am with banning generally, that eejit adds nothing, not even the stimulus of providing a steel of stupid neocon positions for our side to hone our arguments upon. Thumbs down.
dj said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:00
this is amazing : ) you need to send this post to NY Times or some place else with high volumes of trafic (no offence SN!). If this doesnt get you to vote democrat nothing will
Artur Schopenhauer said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:00
I want to know what fellow Sadlynauts think the NRO’s readership think Bush’s leg-on-sea will be.
Nimrod Gently said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:02
Saul got his current nick from the British National Party’s youth leader, so I kind of want to apologise on behalf of my country.
Candy said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:02
I want to know what fellow Sadlynauts think the NRO’s readership think Bush’s leg-on-sea will be.
Bringing democracy and purple fingers and ponies and painted schools to Iraq would be my guess.
Lesley said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:02
As soon as he started using “homosexuals are aids monkeys” that clinched it for me. Lines need to be drawn.
Fuck him.
MzNicky said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:03
Leave us not forget the legacy of Supreme Court appointments too. Also, Brownie “Heckuva Job” and Deadeye Dick Cheney and his magic duck-hunting gun.
Jean Arf said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:04
The Pantload need only plagiarize Victor David Hanson’s column of last week, “Eons From Now, Dubya Will Be Missed,” or something like that. A very glass-half-full assessment of the legacy. Winding up, naturally, with “and we haven’t had another 9/11!!!!” As if one weren’t enough.
Lesley said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:04
If Saul is halfway clever he’ll soon be using another IP address. Please be vigilant SN. Thank you.
Dain Brammaged said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:05
Don’t forget Osama Bin Lauden, hand holding with the Sauds, Jack Abramoff, and no slideshow would be complete without a sneering Dick Chaney.
Candy said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:05
Don’t forget “returning dignity and respect to the White House.” I’m sure they’ll all agree Bush has done a bang-up job o’that.
Lesley said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:05
I want to know what fellow Sadlynauts think the NRO’s readership think Bush’s leg-on-sea will be.
Bringing trailers (albeit broken, toxic and late) to New Orleans.
gbear said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:06
He’s a rather clumsy and untalented performance artist whose routine has grown very tiresome.
Maybe we could convince him to take up a career as a mime.
That ‘Haam’ name has always pissed the hell outta me so I wouldn’t miss it if it were to somehow magically disappear. Was it actually Haam who did the spamming yesterday? I noticed the spam disappeared but not Haam’s comments.
Lesley said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:08
Making Halliburton one of the richest corporations in the US of A. Hey, jobs!@#$
javafascist said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:08
I think we can file this under “Takes one to know one” and thus we understand why Jonah is called upon to evaluate Bush’s legacy. I’m sure this will only strengthen his point, if you know what I mean, and sadly, I think you do.
J— said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:09
Goldberg on Bush’s legacy, before a live Close Up audience. Friday, May 16, 2008, at 7:00 PM on CSPAN 2.
See your emails in action!
Lesley said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:10
Improved conditions for car-bound wingless bird hunters who lack aim?
J— said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:10
Don’t forget “returning dignity and respect to the White House.” I’m sure they’ll all agree Bush has done a bang-up job o’that.
Yeah, no more jeans like under the clintonista regime!
Candy said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:11
Working hard to support the troops with flowery praise and bumper sticker slogans. (Just not with body armour, reasonable-length tours of duty, guaranteed education, mental health care, and a decent hope of a good job upon return to the States.)
The Truth said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:13
And yet, and yet….
With all of this “going” for the Democrats, do you still think they can win in November? Absolutely not. And what will you fine little liberal schoolchildren do then?
It is intriguing that you people blame Bush for 9/11, the runup of which occured during Clinton eight years of banging interns, and credit him not at all for the subsequent seven years of no terrorism. Somehow I think that might come up in the election, the story of Obama’s horrible life of oppression in AmeriKKKa notwithstanding.
While you contemplate that, let me point out that
1- I am not HAAM (and a mod can check my IP address to validate that - wish they would actually)
2- I thought HAAM should go once those ridiculously long cut and pastes came in, making the site unreadable. His nickname is horribly offensive but it seems to fit in with the rest of the juvenile humor here.
Gary Ruppert said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:14
The truth is, fuck HAAM, and the horse he rode in on.
MzNicky said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:15
Also:
Kyoto Protocol withdrawal/EPA evisceration
“No Child Left Behind”
Downing Street Memo
Suppression of stem-cell research
Abolishment of the 4th Amendment (right to privacy)
Joking about weapons of mass destruction on national TV
Trying to gut Social Security
The “catapulting of propaganda”
Sale of port security to Dubai
Trillion-zillion-dollar deficit
Terry Schiavo
ANWR drilling proposals
Harriet Miers
I could go on, but I have to go vomit now.
Brad said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:15
With all of this “going” for the Democrats, do you still think they can win in November?
Yes.
This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions.
Lesley said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:15
Mission accomplished!
Destroyed America’s global reputation
Increased death and destruction
Unprecedented incompetence at home and abroad
Increased profits for himself and his VP
Unprecendented number of vacation days of any President in history
Most alike in appearance to Ted Bundy
Candy said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:16
Musn’t forget No Child Left Behind! Gotta love that edumacation legacy.
I’m starting to believe in some sort of weird conspiracy. It is really hard to believe that the Bush Misadministration could have fucked up the country this bad by accident. Just thinking about it boggles the mind.
Righteous Bubba said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:18
A positive: the success of Steven Colbert and the legendary roasting of Bush by same.
Davis said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:18
Roaming through those NRO archives is fascinating. K Lo has some encouraging news about Terri Schiavo (some “pro-life” court ruling), and Jonah predicts that Bush’s speech (which one, who knows?) will be studied by schoolchildren for years to some, just like Gettysburg and the Four Freedoms.
gbear said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:18
All of these ‘legacy’ photographs and video clips should be collected and displayed in a permanent exhibit across the street from the Bush library (with one of the many photos of Bush flipping the bird facing the library). He very badly needs an official hall of shame to thwart any attempt to salvage his reputation. You know they’re going to try…
SamFromUtah said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:18
Kyoto Protocol withdrawal/EPA evisceration
Oh yeah! And “unsigning” our membership in the International Criminal Court because Americans might be prosecuted in it, um, for no reason at all.
Lesley said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:18
Shouldn’t this be among the photos, Brad?
D.N. Nation said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:21
Yes. Check the polls. Check the money. Check the numbers. Check the elections so far this year.
The GOP is boned. Best you can hope for is to sneak into the White House and maybe regain Congress by 2012. Republicans are tied to Bush, a crappy war, high gas prices, and a faltering economy. Deal with it.
Sadly, No! Did you watch any of the GOP debates? Do you recall anyone- ANYONE- bringing up Bush?
If McCain wants to say that Bush did a great job on terror and that he’ll continue Bush’s policies, he can be my guest.
Bush is more a campaign issue for Americans than Reverend Wright, Obama’s wife, cheesesteaks, or whatever else you wingnuts throw out.
Lesley said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:21
Photo for Jonah’s legacy essay.
Nimrod Gently said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:23
There’s been no terrorism in seven years? Wow, so what were they whining about in Bali and Madrid and London and, oh yeah, Iraq?
stryx said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:23
Well, despite the fact that both Jillian and I are slagging HAAM’s mom, I say Ban the Fucker Already.
What about a picture of the Brooks Brothers Riot (Bush v. Gore remix)?
whateverdude said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:23
Bush’s legacy? That’s an easy one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HorPRiN5iL8&feature=related
Lesley said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:24
another photograph for Jonah’s legacy report.
http://leblog.exuberance.com/images/bushguitar3.jpg
Strumming away while New Orleans drowned.
t4toby said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:27
I just started saying that I suspected HAAM was Jonah, and it seemed to me that he would tend to disappear every time I mentioned it, so I went with it.
Shorter t4toby comment:
I just pulled it out of my ass to amuse myself about a very unfunny troll.
mikey said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:27
Yeah. Laughing at aids is ugly enough for me.
Seems to me y’all agonize over it too much.
Just think in terms of the discussion around Jillian’s post from yesterday.
If it’s done as satire, as humor, as actual commentary, then it should stay as part of the conversation, Sadly Style.
If it’s just mean spirited hate speech, intended not to inform, enlighten or amuse, but merely to hurt and draw outraged attention, it should not be allowed.
And the good news? It’s really easy to tell the difference.
See, if you’re not sure? It should stay. If you are very clear that there is simply no socially redeeming justification for the words and terms in a given outrageous post, it’s just hate speech. And taking action is appropriate.
Let the nasty little fuckers buy their own domain and see if they can draw readership. Why give them a platform their hatred and their desire to hurt?
mikey
not even an mba said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:30
John Howard and Tony Blair and their excellen re-election campaigns.
Brad said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:31
Oh yeah! And don’t forget Aznar in Spain! Bush has toppled more regimes unintentionally than the ones he’s toppled intentionally.
t4toby said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:32
Fuck HAAM. Fuck Saul. Fuck ‘em.
Righteous Bubba said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:35
If it’s just mean spirited hate speech, intended not to inform, enlighten or amuse, but merely to hurt and draw outraged attention, it should not be allowed.
And the good news? It’s really easy to tell the difference.
I’m not sure I agree, but my case against saul is that it’s really a technical issue: saul brings no information - or funny - ever so it’s noise in your signal. What he says is what the posts up top mock, so why does it need to be restated?
A somewhat richer Ralph Nader said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:35
Don’t forget about meeeeee!
PeeJ said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:36
As I said late last night, 86 the P.o.S. It was tiring long ago; lately it’s become offensive. I’m very reluctant to advocate banishment but there’s no humor in anything haam/saul/smegma writes. It’s hate speech which, as all of us constitution lovers know, is not protected at all much less in a “private” forum.
I dopn’t have much to add to the photo essay except to suggest there be some pictures from Walter Reed or whatever would show the abuse of the troops the GOP have been (ab)using as political pawns.
MzNicky said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:38
demonization of:
Valerie Plame
Cindy Sheehan
Helen Thomas
enabling of:
Tom DeLay
John Bolton
John Ashcroft
every fucking GOP asshole you can think of
And
Running over Scottish policemen with his bicycle
color-coded “terrorism alerts”
stove-piping intelligence reports
Christian Coalition-mongering
flag-burning-mongering
regular six-week vacations
shakedown of librarians for patron info
more than 4,000 dead troops
who knows how many dead Iraqis
continuing presence of obnoxious ex-First Abomination Babs
“The Pet Goat”
“Clear Skies Initiative”
gbear said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:38
Don’t forget about meeeeee!
Nader was in Simple Minds? wow.
Legalize said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:39
Nailed it, Inspector Brad.
jim said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:39
what i’d like is a whole mediawiki devoted to the misdeeds of the gigantic fuckup twins: the GOP and the Bush Admin
theres so much out there that somebody ought to put it in a definitive place with a non partisan spin
I agree. I was going to suggest dkosopedia , but that unfortunately will automatically have a partisan spin…regardless of how factual and referenced and back-referenced the information is.
How could such a wiki be set up?
Hmm….i mean, how’s wikipedia itself on this? it seems they have most of the facts, while they are perhaps a tad too soft in pointing figures directly…
Robosexuals are glibertarian monkeys said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:41
What’s up, guys?
MzNicky said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:41
Wow. Feels good to vent rage over The One Who Deserves It for a change.
PeeJ said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:43
Blackwater. Enron. Turning the DoJ into a political operation.
Anybody have a shot of the nuns being refused entrance to the voting booth? Diebold. Lurita Doan. Alphonse Jackson. Abramoff. Mark Foley.
Simba B said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:45
Heh. PeeJ’s comment makes me think we could make the litany of Bush scandals, or at least a subset of them, into a remake of that Billy Joel song.
Legalize said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:46
Jonah - the lazy slob - has to employ the knuckle-draggers who worship him to do his fucking research for him. How much actual “research” will actually make its way in to dude’s “thesis” that he can’t even be bothered to remember to write? Or research? Or actually think about?
WCW said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:47
Just sent him this:
“It would be difficult to identify a President who, facing major international and domestic crises, has failed in both as clearly as President Bush,” concluded one respondent. “His domestic policies,” another noted, “have had the cumulative effect of shoring up a semi-permanent aristocracy of capital that dwarfs the aristocracy of land against which the founding fathers rebelled; of encouraging a mindless retreat from science and rationalism; and of crippling the nation’s economic base.”
“No individual president can compare to the second Bush,” wrote one. “Glib, contemptuous, ignorant, incurious, a dupe of anyone who humors his deluded belief in his heroic self, he has bankrupted the country with his disastrous war and his tax breaks for the rich, trampled on the Bill of Rights, appointed foxes in every henhouse, compounded the terrorist threat, turned a blind eye to torture and corruption and a looming ecological disaster, and squandered the rest of the world’s goodwill. In short, no other president’s faults have had so deleterious an effect on not only the country but the world at large.”
“With his unprovoked and disastrous war of aggression in Iraq and his monstrous deficits, Bush has set this country on a course that will take decades to correct,” said another historian. “When future historians look back to identify the moment at which the United States began to lose its position of world leadership, they will point—rightly—to the Bush presidency. Thanks to his policies, it is now easy to see America losing out to its competitors in any number of areas: China is rapidly becoming the manufacturing powerhouse of the next century, India the high tech and services leader, and Europe the region with the best quality of life.”
http://harpers.org/archive/2008/04/hbc-90002804
whateverdude said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:49
You have less credibility than a 9/11 Truther. Because say what you will about the Truthers, but at least they don’t abandon their crazy and insane delusions just because they suddenly become politically inconvenient.
I don’t think I’ll ever really grasp where this intense hostility towards “9/11 Truth” comes from on “liberal” sites. I mean, it’s not as though everyone who questions the story we were given about it believes that the jets were holograms or that a cruise missile hit the Pentagon…….so why lump everyone who has doubts in with those who might feel better hooked to an anti-psychotic IV?
jim said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:49
It is intriguing that you people blame Bush for 9/11, the runup of which occured during Clinton eight years of banging interns, and credit him not at all for the subsequent seven years of no terrorism.
I’m glad you find it intriguing. If you really want to know, here’s why.
Clinton:
- Clinton had a non-partisan anti-terrorism expert, who previously served under Bush and Reagan, elevated to what was essentially a cabinet-level post. This was Richard Clarke.
- The Clinton administration paid attention to terrorism, and foiled multiple plots which would have been catastrophic and deadly.
- Clinton handed to the Bush administration specific and detailed plans for anti-terrorism.
Bush:
- Bush and his administration ignored those plans, and *PUT NOTHING* in their place. So, you see, there were no plans because Bush chose not to pay attention.
- Bush had Richard Clarke, his administration’s *ONLY* anti-terrorism expert, cut off from cabinet meetings.
- Bush put no one in Richard Clarke’s place.
- Richard Clarke screamed for meetings. Intelligence was all over the place. Bush took a month-long vacation in August, during which he received the PDB “Bin Laden determined to attack US”. Bush cleared brush.
So to recap:
- Clinton: did stuff.
- Bush: did nothing.
Now, if Bush *had* done ANYTHING about anti-terrorism before 9/11, and 9/11 still happened, then you might have an argument.
But that’s not the way it is. You may want to believe differently, and I understand that, but the facts defeat you.
Please prove me wrong, and show me one thing of any substance the Bush administration did to thwart terrorism before 9/11.
Fozzetti said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:50
Saul, etc. is escalating his nuisance factor daily. It is only getting worse. Best to boot him now before he goes *way* beyond the line.
Smut Clyde said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:51
aligning America with the historical tide
In retrospect, with Hurricane Katrina in mind, this was not the ideal choice of words.
Running over Scottish policemen with his bicycle
Is it about a bicycle?
jim said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:53
Oh, let’s not forget his total violation of and undermining the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty, to sell India nukes in exchange for a trade deal on - wait for it -
mangoes.
jim said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:55
Trollban HAAM?
I’m passionately ambivalent - as I said elsewhere, there are certain people out there (who NEVER leave comments) to whom he’s neither offensive nor a threat - he’s a refreshing snack. If you let him return, he needs to do a LOT of praying that one of them never catches wind of him. He’s been nasty enough, & given many folks here a hard enough time for one of us - & that’s the rub, you just never know who it’ll be - to hunt down his ID (child’s-play if you’ve either the skill or the $$$) & feed his sad ass to said people. They will NOT show mercy & they have many ways to torture their prey, all by remote-control - they actively enjoy ruining lives.
(Good Rule Of Thumb: don’t go too far out of your way to gratuitously piss people off online. Toxic snark has a hell of a long shelf-life now that everyone can do Screengrabs, even if you CAN delete it an hour later. Which, in this case, he can’t.)
“Legacy”???
You know this isn’t American TeeVee - because those coffins are strictly VERBOTEN on the Magic-Box. Maybe they’d be okay to air, if only it weren’t for all those inconvenient flags on them. Or if only it weren’t for the obscenely futile way they got their contents.
What Truthers have that Jonah doesn’t? The odd question or two actually worth an intelligent & accurate answer, comes to mind. Oh, & please remember, a few of those “nutjobs” happen to be NYPD & NYFD who were IN the buildings & thus, unlike the rest of us, know the event whereof they speak firsthand - & who might actually deserve said answers as well as annual orgies of rhetorical lip-service.
What, no “My Pet Goat” shot or “Game-Show Cameo” shot or “binoculars with the covers still on” shot either?
You could’ve put one of him cleaning his specs on the Letterman Show lady’s shirt in there too - another proud moment in Presidential history.
It’s not a legacy - it’s an impact-crater.
Tom said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:55
Someone should put this up on Daily Kos.
tontocal said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:56
I posted in the “Happy Obama Day!” thread about how his name offends me (for personal reasons) but I’ll stand up for him here. I asked him, just from a sense of decency, to change his ‘moniker’. If he’s willing to behave and not be a complete ass on here, (and I had no idea that he was ‘Saul’) I’m willing to ‘put up’ with him. (though I do think he should ‘get put’) That said, I haven’t been a SadlyNaught™ devotee for very long so I don’t what internets holocausts he’s committed in the past so, hey Brad, I’ll defer to you
WCW said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:57
dear Whatever dude,
Couldn’t agree more. A giant building falls down without getting hit by a plane, gov’t report doesn’t mention it, and we are supposed to feel nuts for saying WTF.
Tom said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:57
I wrote to Jonah but (using some of the info from earlier comments here) I put it in terms that perhaps Jonah could appreciate:
Bush is a disgrace because he failed to live up
to the legacy of Reagan…
Reagan raised taxes to cover the deficit
Reagan gave amnesty to immigrants
Reagan pulled our troops out of the Mideast to keep us from getting
mired in a war
Reagan negotiated with our enemies
Bush is not 1/10th of the man Ronald Reagan was. Bush is a national
disgrace and he and his supporters are destroying this one great
country. I only hope and pray that our next president prosecutes that
ass for the crimes he has committed against our country and against
humanity.
t4toby said,
May 12, 2008 at 22:58
I’m with whateverdude.
Just because the outliers of the 9/11 Truth movement are lunatics does not mean that there aren’t serious questions about how 9/11 went down.
I really only say this because my first instinct as I watched the towers fall on live TV was that Dick Cheney had something to do with it. And they say to always trust your instincts…
stryx said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:00
subsequent seven years of no terrorism
Anthrax much?
WCW said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:01
Need some help here–
I have a friend who must be contrary about everything, so he gives the Bush WH credit for banning Jerry Adams of the IRA, showing some consistency in the War on Terror (said friend has a peeve about any organization that blows up innocent people).
First of all — is it true?
Second — what do you think? One tiny cherry in the mountain of turds?
Righteous Bubba said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:02
Attention:
http://www.debunking911.com/
Attackerman - Commentary of Spencer Ackerman » And If You Keep Giving Me Those Looks I’m Gonna Poke You In The Eye said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:02
[...] — its girlfriend is totally Jezebel, but it’s cheating with both Erica and Joy — remarks, brilliantly: Why should anybody ask for your opinion on anything, dude? You have less credibility [...]
jim said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:05
Truth-Borg @ 22:13 -
“It is intriguing that you people blame Bush for 9/11, the runup of which occured during Clinton eight years of banging interns, and credit him not at all for the subsequent seven years of no terrorism.”
You mean “no terrorism in MY country” - & you’re still full of it.
Google “Anthrax Attacks” & weep, you ignorant hump.
Then check out whose labs MADE that anthrax, & whose party was its EXCLUSIVE target.
Then NEVER spout that LIE again.
Don’t worry - I’m sure the other legions of lies won’t miss it.
You’re as good at history as you are at predicting elections.
whateverdude said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:06
Anthrax much?
Errr…….that was “Democrats only” anthrax, so I guess it doesn’t count.
whateverdude said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:10
Attention:
http://www.debunking911.com/
I take it you haven’t actually read the contents of that site bro? (yikes!).
willendorf venus said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:10
Brilliant. A very serious argument that has never been made with such care or in such detail.
Cangrejero said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:10
Well, one legacy of the Bush administration will be the exposure of Jonah and his ilk for the frauds and hacks that they are. Sure, we’ve known that for some time, but the sheer ineptitude of W and co. has forced Doughbab and pals to new lows of intellectual dishonesty in defense of W. If it weren’t for Bush, we would never have seen how low Jonah can go.
Fozzetti said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:11
I suppose you could send Saul & Co. into moderation and only post comments that are not egregiously insulting, racist, sexist, homophobic and so on. I doubt many would make it through.
King Kong said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:14
Too much trouble. I say we make him our butt monkey, and he can stay or go as he pleases.
t4toby said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:15
None would make it through.
Pope Ratzo said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:16
The “Close-Up Foundation”?
Why would a toothpaste company need to ask Jonah Goldberg about the Bush Legacy?
And as far as the Conservatives actually considering Jonah G a “thinker”…
That’s the funny part. In the world of Conservatives, he IS a thinker. Now that Wm F Buckley is dead, it comes down to the inbred Hagans, Kitty Jean Lopez, Victor Davis Hitler and Jonah.
Can you imagine what the vibe must be like at a conservative think tank these days? Think Jim Jones and the last hours of Jonestown.
Doodle Bean said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:21
I’m sorry, but how exactly can one not be a “Bushie” when one is the Bush to which the word “Bushie” refers?
tontocal said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:23
Pantload had really pissed me off with this one!! I now feel obliged, nee, pathologically compelled to spend the rest of my working (from home) day to draft an appropriate response! Just an idea though; how’s about we also send him ideas on how to title a followup to his Vegans=Brownshirts tome? Potatoes immediately came to mind, so here’s a few to start:
1) Liberal Hashism How combining ‘day old’ potatoes with my main staple, mayonnaise, could be a toxic mix!
2) Liberal Latkes Could shredding the Constitution be far behind!?
Righteous Bubba said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:26
I take it you haven’t actually read the contents of that site bro? (yikes!).
Without getting too far into the “truther” stuff, yes I have. If you have something you think has merit, take it up with that guy because he can speak for me. I have yet to see a truther argument that was not laid waste by either fact, Occam’s razor, or simple lack of evidence.
Doodle Bean said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:26
A giant building falls down
without gettingafter sustaining blows from air blasts, debris falls, thermal stresses and foundation stresses because the huge buildings next to it were hit byaplanes, burnt and fell down hard.There. Fixed.
ahem said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:29
I thought it’d be interesting to know what NRO readers think Bush’s legacy will be.
Responsible for the rise of the lazy fucker who asks his readers to do research for him?
Smut Clyde said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:31
Rather than sending these suggestions to Jonah, shouldn’t you be sending them to whoever is going to interview him? I imagine that the Close Up Foundation is an even-handed, non-partisan organisation, where they will be taken seriously.
a few of the many Major Sponsors in 2004
1. AT&T
2. Bristol-Myers Squibb
3. Caterpillar
4. ExxonMobil
5. General Mills
6. Time Warner
7. UPS
8. Wal-Mart
– OK, I’ll think about that some more.
Doodle Bean said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:33
Wow. Feels good to vent rage over The One Who Deserves It for a change.
Amen, MzNickey! Let’s all pile on the ‘truthers’, now!
I kid. I kid. You can rage against that turd in the White House as much as you want. And against Dubay to boot.
ahem said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:36
Oh, and ban the troll already. Once you have one who feels established, you get two who’ll take the place over.
whateverdude said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:37
If you have something you think has merit, take it up with that guy because he can speak for me
“He can speak for me”? Geez pal, don’t put yourself in that position. I’ve sent many a doubter to that very site, just to show them how pathetic the “rebuttals” to questions brought up by “Truthers” are. Seriously, if you want to present an anti-Truther arguement, you should look elsewhere.
Righteous Bubba said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:40
Seriously, if you want to present an anti-Truther arguement, you should look elsewhere.
Really, I shouldn’t think any more about the subject. It goes in the Area 51 pile.
Doodle Bean said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:41
Shorter Jonah: I’m incompetent. Please help me. Pleeeeeeeeze?
r€nato said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:46
“Bring ‘em on” and “Mission Accomplished” if I had to limit myself to ideas/photos not shown above in the blog post.
Really, if one sat down to write a list of Bush’s ‘legacy’, it would take quite a while to make a comprehensive list.
Hattie said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:49
Brilliant.
t4toby said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:49
Seems the Truth issue is a third rail, much like the Nader issue.
And as usual, I am being told I am stupid and laughable for not blindly accepting whatever passes for conventional wisdom.
Can we agree to disagree and be over it? I like you guys too much to bicker.
LizDexic said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:49
Don’t forget
http://peacecorpsonline.org/messages/imagefolder/abughraib.jpg
and
http://tinyurl.com/3v8v6p
SomeNYGuy said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:50
He forgot about the interview. He misremembered the date. He begs his readers for talking points.
What does he do all day? Isn’t this his job? Could he actually believe he’s so beautiful and charming that others will step up to carry his (pant)load?
whateverdude said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:50
There. Fixed.
(He/she dusts his/her hands off in undeservedly smug fashion).
You know, it’s a pity that the government agencies investigating the curious collapse of Building 7 (and trying desperately to find a rationale for that event) didn’t use your explanation. Then again, they’re professionals with considerably more knowledge than you have. The NIST had to admit “We are unable to provide a full explanation of the total collapse” and FEMA acknowledged that their theory only had “a low probability of occurring”.
I willing to listen to *any* reasonable rebuttals but…….at least try doing a little objective investigating beforehand, ok?
Dane Janeiro said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:52
A copy of the August 6, 2001–”bin Laden determined to strike in U.S.”
The 28 redacted pages from the congressional 9/11 report the implicates the Saudi security force as having provide assistance to some of the hijackers.
Also a transcript of Bush/Cheney’s “classified” 9/11 commission testimony. Oh, wait, there was no transcript of that.
My forever impression of the Bush legacy is that he could not testify before the 9/11 commission by himself. he had to go with Cheney.
Dane Janeiro said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:53
A copy of the August 6, 2001–”bin Laden determined to strike in U.S.”
The 28 redacted pages from the congressional 9/11 report that implicates the Saudi security force as having provide assistance to some of the hijackers.
Also a transcript of Bush/Cheney’s “classified” 9/11 commission testimony. Oh, wait, there was no transcript of that.
My forever impression of the Bush legacy is that he could not testify before the 9/11 commission by himself. he had to go with Cheney.
whateverdude said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:55
Really, I shouldn’t think any more about the subject. It goes in the Area 51 pile.
That explains probably a bit more than you actually wanted explained.
PeeJ said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:57
Oh boy! Oh boy! Now we have a topic that’s gonna be really productive - the truth about 9!!
Heh. Very simply put, 90-some percent of the conspiracy theorist crap (I use the term quite deliberately) is thoroughly de-bunkable. There are however a couple of little things that are just ….wrong. I don’t believe we’ve gotten the whole truth and nothing but the truth from the official stroy. That doesn’t mean the whole story is made up.
Just consider this: what is the likelihood that the totally incompetent fuckwads that comprise this administration, AND the hundreds if not thousands of other players that would have to be involved (from bit parts to major roles) could pull it off without ONE total screw-up, smoke-belching gun left lieing around, without ONE person who can’t keep the secret, ….
Gimme a fuckin break already. The only mystery is how the administration managed to fuck things up even beyond what was previously thought the maximal theoretical FUBARedness.
Principal Blackman said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:57
Wanna see a perfect storm of stupid? Mark Noonan is reading–and vigorously agreeing with–Liberal Fascism, meaning he now peppers his blog posts with references to “the fascist left.”
Oh, and while I was OK with the Saul character, the HAAM character should be banned. That’s just too much.
Dane Janeiro said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:58
Bloated republican spouses at the 2004 convention with the band aids on their faces mocking John Kerry’s service.
Lesley said,
May 12, 2008 at 23:59
please send thoughts, hopefully constructive
Google “legacy of George Bush.” Unfortunately for Jonah, who equates “constructive” with pink pony cheerfulness, the results are 99.9% negative.
Doodle Bean said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:02
As Kos says, extraordinary theories require extraordinary evidence, and I agree. Apparently, NIST and FEMA do too since they didn’t just make shit up as the truthers did.
Instead, they rightly concluded they didn’t have enough evidence to say exactly what happened.
So, what T4toby said except for the last sentence. I’ve seen far too many meetings be disrupted by people who ‘know’ what happened on 9/11 and think we’re all fools to be concentrating on things happening right now such as, you know, innocent people being killed and maimed and stuff.
Don’t like ‘truthers’ at all.
PeeJ said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:03
I make a damn fine clam chowder. Lunch is rarely so good.
No, clam chowder does NOT have any tomato or tomato-like substance in it. Unless it’s cooked up at Area 51.
Doodle Bean said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:03
Brad, as for banning haam, I’d say yes. As you note, the name itself is offensive and his writings are tedious at best.
Besides, I just bought a pound at the supermarket yesterday, so have more than enough.
Lesley said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:05
“How do we know Bush wasn’t behind September 11th? Because it worked , and it involved planning .” (Bill Maher)
atheist said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:06
This nicely encapsulates my take as well.
atheist said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:09
Oh, and about banning HAAM, I agree you should go for it, although it has nothing to do with ‘hate speech’ really. It’s just because he/she/it adds absolutely nothing of any value whatsoever, and genuinely hurts the feelings of many of the people here.
Lesley said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:11
I wonder if Jonah can use this:
whateverdude said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:12
Just consider this: what is the likelihood that the totally incompetent fuckwads that comprise this administration, AND the hundreds if not thousands of other players that would have to be involved (from bit parts to major roles) could pull it off without ONE total screw-up, smoke-belching gun left lieing around, without ONE person who can’t keep the secret, ….
(sigh) Hundreds? Thousands? When your boss, the Secretary of Defense, tells you to move squadrons of interceptor jets off of the east coast to participate in “exercises that he’s contrived for a certain day, you do it. When your boss, the head of NORAD, tells you that what seems to be a “terrorist event” is actually just a realistic sounding exercise, headed up by Vice President Cheney himself (in which planes fly into skyscrapers), you do what he says and *stand down*. That’s two participants in this conspiracy and about 95% of the attack accounted for. It doesn’t take many people when the ones involved are in the top positions.
As for “smoking guns” left behind, geez, there are countless numbers of ‘em, not that you’d be aware of…….given your aversion to the entire subject.
Brandi said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:13
What, no “My Pet Goat” shot or “Game-Show Cameo” shot or “binoculars with the covers still on” shot either?
One of those (the binocular one) would be the sort of pointless (and possibly Photoshopped) item that Pantsload and his troop of dingleberries would use to claim the entire set of photos was invalid.
t4toby said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:13
I see your point, Doodle, I just have trouble accepting anything the government has said in about…well, ever.
My biggest snag about 9/11 is that whether they actually planned it, or were merely complicit, or just plain ignorant to the point of being dysfunctional, every goal they had, every campaign promise, every one of the Big Dick’s wet dreams were fully enabled by that tragic event.
It just all seems very…convenient.
mikey said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:13
Look, you guys. I think Righteous Bubba’s point (and certainly mine) is that we take pride in being the “reality based community”. That means we believe evidence, and we insist that if you want us to believe a particular theory, you have to show us credible evidence. That’s why we accept global warming and evolution and tend to doubt magic sky fairy tales.
So, with all the evidence that Arab Terrorists recruited and operationally funded by al-Quaeda hijacked airliners, took over control of those airliners and crashed them into the trade center towers, causing them to collapse and causing TREMENDOUS damage to the surrounding area, this is the narative that we tend to accept.
Now, if you had some credible science that could pass the test and could respond to the scientific community’s debunking with something more than “THEY’RE IN ON IT TOO!!” you would find welcome ears. But the fact that you cannot produce anything like credible evidence or documentary support that will start to convince the leading experts of your position, and so then you you start pointing the finger of some broad conspiracy at everyone who you fail to convince, leads us to tend to categorize you as a bunch of tinfoil hat wackos.
Most of us are not structural engineers or metallurgists. Interestingly, most of you are not either. We accept that we have to accept the conclusion of the leading industry experts. You don’t want to, so you tend to say they are corrupt (see global warming denying, evolution denying, etc.) and supporting the conspiracy. Or that they know they’re wrong but don’t want to lose their career.
If you want to be taken seriously, you have to find a way to convince the experts you are right. If you cannot do that, you are probably NOT right.
And for t4toby and the more rational people who are suspcious.
Yes. Our government lies to us regularly. But this would be a HUGE conspiracy, bigger than anything since the civil war. It could not have been kept secret. Bush didn’t do it. The CIA didn’t do it. The israelis didn’t do it. al-Quaeda did it. For well known and obvious reasons.
Now, do we know the whole story? Of course not. We never will. Our government would lie to us even when telling the truth would serve them better. But it’s in the details, and to hide the incompetence, not in the responsible parties…
mikey
Fozzetti said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:13
A President Obama may be a Bush Legacy. I’ve always hoped a person of color would be president in my lifetime; but without the evil and incompetence BushCo I don’t think Obama would have attempted it so soon, let alone been successful.
Righteous Bubba said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:18
Look, you guys. I think Righteous Bubba’s point (and certainly mine) is that we take pride in being the “reality based community”.
Yes, that’s my point. If someone birngs me credible evidence that the moon-men did it I’ll believe it. Until then all I’ve seen is a bong and stack of Marvel What If? comics.
whateverdude said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:19
Instead, they rightly concluded they didn’t have enough evidence to say exactly what happened.
Which makes your breezy brush-off of what happened a rather large pile of horse-shit, now doesn’t it?
Don’t like ‘truthers’ at all.
And the feeling is entirely mutual. The difference is that I don’t go out of my way to bring up that issue out of the blue, the way that “anti-Truthers” feel compelled to.
atheist said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:20
Well, whateverdude, maybe you are right. I don’t have anything against people who believe that 9/11 was an inside job personally… as long as I am free to agree or not agree with them in accordance to what makes sense to me.
I’ve heard 9/11 theories that pointed out strange anomalies, or even suspicious things. But I’ve never heard one that I thought was convincing. People say, “Don’t you know that airplane fuel could never burn hot enough to bend support struts of a skyscraper?” But that just makes my mind jump to a fire that happened in Chicago a couple of decades ago, where a fire burning only normal interior materials of a building did indeed cause huge metal support struts to bend and even melt.
People say, don’t you know that Mossad agents were near the buildings on 9/11? But how do I know that’s for real, not just some anti-Israel thing, and even if they were, what does that prove exactly?
Walking Wounded said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:20
When I think of Bush’s legacy, a mental picture immediately comes to mind that sums it all up for me: That of a big, steaming pile of dogshit.
Truly, the man has the “reverse Midas touch.” Everything he touches or has touched turns to shit.
The other part of his legacy is the psychic pain I’ve felt and suffered over the past seven years as I’ve seen him destroy so many ideals and beliefs (maybe they were illusions all along) I had about the society and country I live in, and the larger world in general.
Truly, this man is an wicked, wicked scoundrel, and I do not think it hyperbole that in the gallery of the world history’s worst and most destructive political leaders, he should be ranked with the likes of the Ahab, Caligula, Nero, Stalin, and Hitler.
PeeJ said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:24
Fozzetti you sound like my ‘Ho. Which is fine because I love him even though he’s incurably optimistic. You’ve now got me thinking about the rest of the Bush legacy.
Destruction of the Republican party.
Galvanizing a progressive movement.
Changing the way the American public evaluates the political system.
If only those silver linings didn’t have to be encased in such dark clouds.
Lesley said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:26
What you see in this photo isn’t a lazy incompetent doofus, but a man enjoying the fruits of his diabolical plan to bring down the towers. The hardest part? Convincing those Arabs they wouldn’t die flying planes into the buildings.
Susan of Texas said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:28
Jonah will probably say something like Bush restored the government’s checks and balances, by giving back to the presidency the power it lost after Nixon.
And then he’ll whine how President Obama exceeds his authority by waking up in the morning.
Righteous Bubba said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:32
birngs me
They can also bring me things. That birng contraption hurts like a motherfucker.
Lesley said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:35
His Legacy by Jonah Goldberg:
George Bush gave me a career. The End.
Doodle Bean said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:39
The difference is that I don’t go out of my way to bring up that issue out of the blue, the way that “anti-Truthers” feel compelled to.
We just happened to be in your way today? Lucky us!
My experiences have not been as yours, apparently, As I mentioned, a typical scenario goes something like this:
“What can we do to get the word out about the bombing and strafing of residential neighborhoods in Sadr City in this latest round of assaults. Thousands of women and children are homeless and hundreds have been killed and wounded just in the past two weeks.”
“Never mind that, what about 9/11?!?!?!? There is evidence that the criminal Bush administration is responsible for the death of thousands of people on 9/11!!”
Usually one person will wearily break away from the group to talk to the ‘truther’ one-on-one just so the meeting can progress.
It would actualy be kind of refreshing if any of the activists I know would stand up in a meeting and, apropos of nothing, start ranting about the ‘new evidence’ which proved that ‘truthers’ were delusional. But, you know, they all feel like there is more important issues to be discussed, those smug bastards!
Oh, and WordPress ate my homework again!
commie atheist said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:40
What is the Close Up Foundation, anyway? Its website says:
Close Up has been the nation’s leading civic education provider since 1971. In that time, we’ve made it our mission to educate, inspire, and empower individuals to become active citizens in our democracy. Each year, through our Washington, D.C.-based experiential learning programs and our multi-media publications, we help more than 1 million students and teachers in 15,000 schools nationwide develop the skills needed to begin a lifetime of active citizenship.
What sets us apart is our non-partisan approach to providing relevant content to students and teachers, and our unique teaching methodology specifically designed to appeal to mainstream students of all learning abilities.
Non-partisan? Then why the fuck are they inviting uber-partisan hack Jonah to speak?
W. Kiernan said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:41
Goldberg is Bush’s legacy.
Arky H8r of VurdPress said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:41
Aborrtion = A pregnancy termination performed by a Scottish doctor.
Let Bush’s legacy be sound of a thousand Brown Squirts wailing.
Doodle Bean said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:43
every goal they had, every campaign promise, every one of the Big Dick’s wet dreams were fully enabled by that tragic event.
Not every one. We still have Social Security. We still have ANWR. We still have the estate tax (well, after 2010+). We still have Medicare, Medicaid, WIC, welfare, the FDA… I could go on, but I’m tired.
Just had my stitches out today. Well, that and all the gardening this weekend. Do you know that compost weighs a ton?!?!!??!
r€nato said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:46
Google “legacy of George Bush.” Unfortunately for Jonah, who equates “constructive” with pink pony cheerfulness, the results are 99.9% negative.
the interwebz are liberally biased.
Gary Ruppert said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:50
The fact is, I’ll bet you liberals are sending obscene emails to Goldberg right now. I hope that in your sloppiness brought about by hate, that there are police on their way to arrest you right now for the outpouring of hate. And, it is only fair that Goldberg is allowed to speak for Bush on this forum, after all, the so-called non-partisan panel will be stacked with liberals, 90% of journalists are democrats.
whateverdude said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:50
Look, you guys. I think Righteous Bubba’s point (and certainly mine) is that we take pride in being the “reality based community”.
Holy. Fucking. Shit.
Look, it would be *easy* to overload this thread with links to scientific proofs backing up “Truther” assertions, but what would the point be? Righteous Bubba’s rebuttal was a site that is more comical than anything else and his willingness to defend it end up as “take it up with him”. This pretty much defines your version of the “reality based community”, and it’s bullshit. You can’t actually argue about this stuff because you’ve NEVER bothered to actually look into it.
Now, that’s fine. If you want to avoid looking at this very dark shit, I can’t really blame you. But my point was/is that it’s bizarre to see this intense hostility to those of us who’ve bothered to spend some time pondering the issue, and have that hostility come from out of the blue on “liberal” sites. In a way, it’s akin to the Hillary/Obama warfare that’s ripping the Liberal base to shreds, and it’s way fucking counterproductive.
It was NEVER my intention to get into this subject (and disturb the peace of those of you who buy what the Bush administration told you about it) but I get pretty fucking riled when people tell me that I’m virtually a psychotic for not thinking that 19 guys, led by Tim Osman (a CIA asset who’s brother was W’s first investor and whose family co-owned the Carlyle Group with Bush Sr.), managed to defeat the multi-Trillion dollar defenses of this country, without any help.
Our government would lie to us even when telling the truth would serve them better
Agreed. So why the hostility? So you don’t believe, fine. Leave it at that and we’ve got no problems….but call me insane over the fact that I’ve actually bothered to look deep into this shit and you start causing friction that has no good purpose in our current situation.
SamFromUtah said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:51
George Bush gave me a career. The End.
That would be typical of the Pantload, not acknowledging that Clinton really gave him his career. I mean, if Jonah’s ma hadn’t made her bones attacking Clinton, Doughbob would be flipping burgers.
Righteous Bubba said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:54
You can’t actually argue about this stuff because you’ve NEVER bothered to actually look into it.
I actually have. Enjoy your fulminating.
nitpicker said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:54
Don’t forget what Daniel Pipes said was The Worst Thing He Ever Did.
Lesley said,
May 13, 2008 at 0:58
Gary, please send your marvellous rhetoric to Jonah. It would give us LOL to see your cheeto prints throughout his legacy paper.
Doodle Bean said,
May 13, 2008 at 1:00
Look, it would be *easy* to overload this thread with links to scientific proofs backing up “Truther” assertions, but what would the point be?
Ummm… to make some sense? To avoid loading up the thread with personal attacks and emotional rants? To, I don’t know, convince some people? To take the easy way out?
I vote for links to truly scientific proofs instead! Infinitely more interesting.
But, do make sure the sites to which you link are scientific and provide actual proofs, please. We’re all thoroughly conversant with the theory and rants, thank you very much.
Nimrod Gently said,
May 13, 2008 at 1:01
Banning Gerry Adams never helped anyone.
Galactic Dustbin said,
May 13, 2008 at 1:04
You know I would TOTALLY be into some 911 Conspiracy goodness, I’d drink that cool aid. If only BushCo. wasn’t COMPLETELY INCOMPETENT. These guys cant even run a bake sale, let alone pull off a secret op that would leave the Illuminati, SPECTER, HYDRA and Miguelito Loveless confused.
Nope I chalk 911 up to the same thing that has caused every disaster on the past 7 years- a bunch of fucking blueblood idiots in charge
Doodle Bean said,
May 13, 2008 at 1:05
Blew the punchline, damnit!
Shoulda been, To take the “easy” way out?
Principal Blackman said,
May 13, 2008 at 1:06
If there were Truther Bingo a la Creationist Bingo, whateverdude would be made of win.
mikey said,
May 13, 2008 at 1:07
Look, it would be *easy* to overload this thread with links to scientific proofs backing up “Truther” assertions
Ok, but before you take the “easy” solution, lemme ask you a “hard” question.
Why has all this overwhelming scientific evidence failed to convince anyone of any consequence in the appropriate disciplines of science and engineering?
In other words, why, if they can prove something different happened, do they encounter so much professional resistance to their theories?
Now this oughta be good…
mikey
Righteous Bubba said,
May 13, 2008 at 1:07
nitpicker said,
This reminded me of the Nitpicker I gave up on due to lack of updates. It’s back and there’s a very funny post about how someone thinks liberals are appallingly ignorant of history ends the screed with
Thank you, potentially the Nitpicker I love, and forgive my impatience.
whateverdude said,
May 13, 2008 at 1:09
“What can we do to get the word out about the bombing and strafing of residential neighborhoods in Sadr City in this latest round of assaults. Thousands of women and children are homeless and hundreds have been killed and wounded just in the past two weeks.”
“Never mind that, what about 9/11?!?!?!? There is evidence that the criminal Bush administration is responsible for the death of thousands of people on 9/11!!”
Well, for what it’s worth, I’ve never broken up a meeting this way and wouldn’t. However, you inadvertantly bring up an interesting issue. Obama has already declared that he’s not going to pursue the treachery of the Bushies because he’s fearful that *Republicans* would see any investigation as being a “witch hunt”. He says we’ve got way to many things to address in the current situation and therefore have to abandon the broken laws of the past.
This is very much part and parcel of what your imaginary political group it telling the “Truther”. In effect, it’s “So what if our country was attacked by a coup consisting of our top governmental, military and industrial people, intent on destroying the Constitution and installing a fascist dictatorship! Don’t you see we have to do something about the after-effects of that coup, going on in countries thousands of miles from ours, rather than do something about the coup that’s causing all of these problems??”.
All problems need to be addressed, but some of us imagine that we should think in terms of priorities. If that’s not a reasonable approach in your mind, then we have *another* disagreement.
Righteous Bubba said,
May 13, 2008 at 1:09
Also sentence-writing not me good at.
Patkin said,
May 13, 2008 at 1:12
I smell new long thread!
I call dibs on 1776.
whateverdude said,
May 13, 2008 at 1:13
I actually have. Enjoy your fulminating.
Yeah. Saw the site you posted. (heh) Nice “research” ya got there…
t4toby said,
May 13, 2008 at 1:14
Whateverdude, you won’t change their minds.
For what its worth, I see your point. This just isn’t the forum.
I have many points to bring up, but I don’t feel like taking on people I consider to be on my team. Since we agree on almost everything else (don’t bring up Nader, either) I am happy to agree to disagree.
Ereshkigal said,
May 13, 2008 at 1:14
Bush helped to rebuild Afghanistan’s lagging agriculture industry by expanding opium poppy production.
Record-level crops for the past few years.
t4toby said,
May 13, 2008 at 1:15
NEW RULE:
Can We Please Postpone the Circular Firing Squad?
CWPPCFS?