Google = Cobagz
Welp, Jonah’s fanboy army of Cheeto-stained wretches has successfully managed to pressure Google into removing Jon Swift’s ingenious post on Liberal Fascism from Google search results. Weak sauce, peeps. Go over to Jon’s blog and give him your support. Google’s Webmaster Blog can be found here. If you wish, you may go there and tell them what you think about the removal of Mr. Swift’s post. Solidarity, bee-yotchez.
And hey, speaking of Jonah, he’s got an op-ed published in today’s WaPo. As you’d expect, it’s chock-full of hilarity:
Conservatism, quite simply, is a mess these days. Conservative attitudes are changing. Or, more accurately, the attitudes of people who call themselves conservatives are changing.
The most cited data to prove this point come from the Pew Political Typology survey. By 2005, it had found that so many self-described conservatives were in favor of government activism that they had to come up with a name for them. “Running-dog liberals” apparently seemed too pejorative, so the survey went with “pro-government conservatives,” a term that might have caused Ronald Reagan to spontaneously combust. This group makes up just under 10 percent of registered voters and something like a third of the Republican coalition. Ninety-four percent of pro-government conservatives favored raising the minimum wage, as did 79 percent of self-described social conservatives. Eight out of 10 pro-government conservatives believe that the government should do more to help the poor and slightly more than that distrust big corporations.
Ye gods! Who could distrust our corporate masters? They seem like such honest folk!
There’s more evidence elsewhere. As former Bush speechwriter David Frum documents in his new book, “Comeback,” income taxes are no longer a terribly serious concern among conservative voters. Young Christian conservatives and others are increasingly eager to bring a faith-based activism to government. As the conservative commentator Ramesh Ponnuru recently noted in Time, younger evangelicals are more likely to oppose abortion than their parents were, but they are also more likely to look kindly on government-run anti-poverty programs and environmental protection.
Y’know what? Good. Those beliefs are at least consistent with what I’d describe as a Christianist worldview. What’s made the Christian Right in this country so appalling over the past 30 years has been their inconsistency: a lot of them would rail against teh ghey and abortions, all the while ignoring Jesus’ essential message of compassion. It now seems as though the Christian Right has come to the refreshingly sane conclusion that a lot of the GOP’s positions simply aren’t very Christian. After all, there’s nothing in the Bible that says “Thou shalt waterboard the darkies, butt-rape the environment and eliminate the capital gains tax.”
Today the American public seems deeply schizophrenic: It hates the government — Washington, Congress and public institutions are more unpopular than at any time since Watergate — but it wants more of it.
No, Jonah, it wants a better government. It doesn’t want a government run by incompetent boobs who get us into needless wars and who screw off with guitars during national disasters. In short, people are sick of having their government run by stupid assholes. You know, the same stupid assholes that you’ve enthusiastically supported all these years.
Conservative arguments about limited government have little purchase among independents and swing voters. This is a keen problem for a candidate like Romney, because it forces him to vacillate between his credible competence message — “I can make government work” — and his strategic need to fill the “Reaganite” space left vacant by former senator George Allen’s failure to seize it and Thompson’s inability to get anyone to notice that he occupies it. Worse, the conservatives who want activist government want it to have a populist-Christian tinge, and that’s a pitch that neither McCain nor Giuliani nor Thompson nor Romney can sell.
In other words: “Oh shit! None of the guys I support can convincingly snooker the Christian Right like Bush did!”
You really are a right stinker, Jonah. As I said a couple of weeks ago about Stephen Green, I cannot wait to see your taxes hiked in 2009.
Ninety-four percent of pro-government conservatives favored raising the minimum wage, as did 79 percent of self-described social conservatives.
So they’re pro-bread AND pro-water?
They probably heard ‘rasing the number of people who make minimum wage’.
oops>
Can someone please explain to me what qualifies a person to get an op-ed in the Washington Post or New York Times? If you are going to write about foreign policy, for example, shouldn’t you have a doctorate or some demonstrated expertise?
I got a reply to the Wikipedia e-mail I sent to him. It was very eloquent.
Jonah:
uh huh.
That was it. All he said to a Wiki entry stating that he misrepresented himself as never getting a job because of his mother. Not even stating it was wrong (which it well could have been, as Wiki is not a good “last word” for anything). What a douchebag.
Wait a minute… I thought Google’s corporate motto was ‘Do No Evil’.
Guess that went out the window when it went public. ‘Do No Evil’ was a lot better than ‘Aid and abet the promotion of public retardation by logical fallacy and guilt-by-association’. Fix on a business card better, as well.
Pantload isn’t the only conservatard to have been fucked up by his parents.
Apparently Mann Coulter’s father just died, and, as with everything else, she used his eulogy as just another opportunity to show off what a piss-poor job he did in raising her to be a decent human being.
LittlePig – I’m glad to see you here, brother, since I don’t go around the other place any more.
Jen – nor I, so much. As you noted the other day, the signal-to-noise ratio has gotten a lot lower. It’s not the Algonquin table it used to be.
Oh, that’s not why I don’t go there. I think the proprietor is a huge douche. I actually like most of the people around there, aside from the relentless self-promoters, even if they do post a lot of worthless crap.
After all, there’s nothing in the Bible that says “Thou shalt waterboard the darkies, butt-rape the environment and eliminate the capital gains tax.”
I remember a bit about how much easier it was for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle…
In other words: “Oh shit! None of the guys I support can convincingly snooker the Christian Right like Bush did!”
Exactly, Brad. That’s why Huckabee scares the living bejeezus out of them (so to speak) – while possessed of a mean streak a mile wide, Huck actually believes that stuff, and takes the long-forgotten-by-big-church-evangelicals message about feeding the hungry and clothing the nekkid seriously.
Since this will greatly impair the wealth distribution from poor to rich and corporate state empowerment programs so beloved in Goldbergian government, Big Money will do anything, anything, to keep Huck out.
Thus, John McCain. Now more than ever.
(English translation: We gotta nominate this old geezer or the gravy train is over!)
I remember a bit about how much easier it was for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle…
I hear the Club for Growth has set up a foundation to fund research into genetically engineering camels to a size that will fit through the eye of a needle.
Jeezus. That Coulter article made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. That’s a tribute to one’s recently-deceased father? What a disturbed little hatebag (s)he is.
I hear the Club for Growth has set up a foundation to fund research into genetically engineering camels to a size that will fit through the eye of a needle.
Though one wonders why they don’t just take the Goldberg approach and re-define “camel” as “amoeba” or “paramecium”.
Conservatism is a dying ideology. Many liberals come from conservative parents, but how many young conservatives are there with liberal parents?
The only young conservatives are the children of wealthy conservatives, who can see which side their bread is buttered on.
It’s a testament to the power of wingnut welfare, isn’t it? Has any author been able to purge Amazon’s reviews so quickly and repeatedly? Has any author had an ‘in’ with teh Gazoogles?
Can someone please explain to me what qualifies a person to get an op-ed in the Washington Post or New York Times?
See above. Lucianne’s calling in all her favors. Because if Jonah gets blown out of the water, it challenges the structural integrity of the wingnut welfare machine. Too many people have staked their threadbare credibility on keeping Dougbob in Cheetos.
But to be brief: to get an op-ed, you need connections. That’s all.
That is the creepiest eulogy I’ve ever seen.
Was Coulter one of those conservative idiots who were complaining about how liberals were using Coretta Scott King’s passing to speak out against the war in Iraq? I guess it’s OK to use a eulogy for political ends if you’re a conservative.
Especially if you’re insane enough to believe that a congenital liar, alcoholic bully and fearmongerer like Joe McCarthy is somehow in heaven now. Yeah. Him and Jesus are the bestest buddies.
How many favors can Lucienne have to call in? I had no idea she wielded such power in media and political circles.
Well, since there’s nothing in the Bible or the teachings of Jesus about abortion but a lot about helping the poor, that’s not surprising, is, it?
George Will has an edimatorial in today’s WaPo as well.
ifthethunderdontgetya wrote:
“Realistic Republicans are looking for shelter.”
Realistic Republicans have already changed parties. That leaves 1) corporate scamsters, 2) bigots and knuckledraggers, and 3) hacks for hire.
It’s a crying shame that Donald Graham won’t clean out his stable full of number 3.
~
1/12/2008 10:57:49 AM
Recommend (10)
Shorter Goldberg:
“Stop it! Stop voting for what you actually believe in! STOP IIIIIIT!”
Little Pig –
“I (heart) Macabee” may have himself a small problem soon – there is a book and tour coming out called “Your Inner Fish” featuring this little fellah:
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/04/05/fossil-fish-20060405.html
Suppose we’ll see if there’s a response other than “Bless his heart”.
Goldberg wears a bracelet with the letters WWCCD* inscribed.
* What Would Calvin Coolidge Do
That Coulter piece isn’t half as bonkers as the site that was advertised above it:
http://www.closecombattraining.com/cctraining/start.php
just click through the first part that “requires” you to enter your email and enjoy the delicious tang of pure distilled paranoia…
How many favors can Lucienne have to call in? I had no idea she wielded such power in media and political circles.
She’s almost single-handedly responsible for getting the Lewinski scandal up and running. She’s got hundreds of favors left to burn through. Compensating her for that is going to take a lot.
In the WaPo, Jonah tries so very hard to make Teh Ha-Ha. It’s just like Hunter S. Thompson, by golly! Only conservative.
….and not funny.
But Jonah has to show us that he’s a crazy, hep young conservative, fully worthy of the shrines erected in his image by legions of Young Republican frat-tards around the country.
I wouldn’t read that much into Google’s actions. They don’t like it when people Googlebomb, and it looks like some folks at the Great Orange Satan took it upon themselves to do that, to up the visibility of the post.
That’s not saying that I agree with the decision, merely that it’s probably not targeted towards the content per se. And, yes, there is a fine line between legitimately linking to content in reference to given topic and trying to rig the results of the search engine. But, if you’re going to complain to Google about this, be nice about it and understand why it was probably done.
Well, perhaps he uses the same Pharmacist as Hunter S. Thompson, but the similarities end there.
Jonah has fanboys? Yick.
Looks like it’s time for me to make Ask.com my primary search engine. If Google’s gonna jigger the results because of conservatard whining, they deserve the consequences.
By the by, I think I see one of Pantload’s purposes in writing this book. He must have known that he could not successfully smear liberals in the eyes of anyone but his own choir. I propose that his goal was not to smear liberals so much as it was to destroy the weight of the word fascist in our discourse.
Those beliefs are at least consistent with what I’d describe as a Christianist worldview. What’s made the Christian Right in this country so appalling over the past 30 years has been their inconsistency: a lot of them would rail against teh ghey and abortions, all the while ignoring Jesus’ essential message of compassion.
Have you READ the Bible? That is not a belief of peace and love and puppy dogs; it is a horrorshow of violence and domination and segregation. Sure, Jesus said some nice things, but his purpose was not to teach us how to behave but to die, horribly, so our “sins” could be washed away.
Actual conservatives like myself are strongly in favour of helping the less fortunate, being tolerant of others, letting people live their lives unless they become a danger to others, etc.
These jerks have hijacked the term when they should really be using ‘redneck’. Really pisses me off.
Conservative means being careful, saving money and resources, spending wisely, etc. At least, that’s what it means to me.
Here in Canada, since I’m liberal in outlook, I vote Conservative. Make sense? It does to me because up here in socialist heaven, the Liberals are more self-serving, dishonest, maniplative and controlling than the Conservatives.
A lot of Canadians make the mistake of thinking that Republican in the US = Conservative in Canada. Actually, the Democrats are most like our Canadian Conservatives and we have nothing as right-wing as the Republicans. Sure, there’s a distinct redneck constituency up here, but since our whole country is shifted left of the US in terms of social outlook, it’s really comparing apples with oranges. Our redneck mob, while real, is a very distinct minority.
Most people, including conservatives up here, just want to get on with it and allow the greatest number of people to live the best possible lives, which ultimately benefits everyone.
Funny, isn’t it, how colloquialisms like ‘right’ and ‘left’ are so dependent on local values.
“The traditional conservative believes that if you don’t have a good idea for what an elephant should be doing, the best course is to encourage it to do nothing at all. Alas, the chorus shouting, “Don’t just do something, stand there!” shrinks by the day.”
So there Jonah stands, hip deep in dung. The problem is, when he finally does amble about with a “good idea”, he winds up tracking his shit all over the place.
Does Ann Coulter’s eulogy for Father finally resolve the question in favor of nurture over nature?
Or does it show that assholism is an inherited trait in the Coulter clan?
There’s that bit in SiCKO where Moore is talking on the golf course with an elderly Canadian gentleman who says, in essence, that universal healthcare is a good thing because ‘you’d want other people to help you when you need it’. He was a dyed-in-the-wool Conservative voter.
(Now, that’s not to say that there aren’t batshit Canadian conservatives: cough, cough, Stockwell Day. But that’s Alberta, aka North Montana.)
And David Cameron, the Eton-educated Tory leader in Britain, would be considered a dirty pinko liberal fascist by most movementarians in the US.
Jim said,
January 13, 2008 at 19:49
Does Ann Coulter’s eulogy for Father finally resolve the question in favor of nurture over nature?
Or does it show that assholism is an inherited trait in the Coulter clan?
All I know is, every year on our wedding anniversary, I jokingly say to my wife, “God, am I still married to you, you ugly, pathetic old whore?” And then we laugh and go out for coffee together.
Regarding the updated picture, my god! He just keeps getting bigger and bigger!
Pretty soon he’ll be the fat guy in the French restaurant in that Monty Python sketch.
All I know is, every year on our wedding anniversary, I jokingly say to my wife, “God, am I still married to you, you ugly, pathetic old whore?” And then we laugh and go out for coffee together.
I hope some day to have a daughter, so that when she prepares to go out, I can say “where’s the rest of your dress, you slut? Have a good time!”
Though one wonders why they don’t just take the Goldberg approach and re-define “camel” as “amoeba” or “paramecium”.
At the fundie church that I used to go to, they said that “Eye of a Needle” was just the name of a narrow passage that traders used back in the Bible days. The moral, sez they, COULD NOT BE that money is bad, or ele Jesus would have been some kinda pinko. No, he was just saying that rich men have to kneel to get into heaven.
Of course, just a few sentence earlier in the same passage a rich man asks how he can get into heaven and Jesus says that first he has to give all of his money to the poor. But I think we can all assume that by that he mereley meant that social programs should be funded through private charity and not the government.
Pretty soon he’ll be the fat guy in the French restaurant in that Monty Python sketch.
Mr. Creosote.
“But ah messieur, it’s ah wahfer-thin.”
And David Cameron, the Eton-educated Tory leader in Britain, would be considered a dirty pinko liberal fascist by most movementarians in the US.
And is, and how! I remember when he proposed using a tree in the Conservative Party log (to symbolize stability, tradition, and good stewardship of the Earth’s resources) and they all spit their gall bladders onto the sidewalk. I guess to be a true conservative you have to hate all living things.
That’s as may be, but he’s still a filthy Tory who would outsource the NHS to his rich chums in the blinking of an eye. He is scum. And one of the reasons why I’d hold my nose and vote for Gordon Brown’s corrupt bag of gobshytes at the next election.
Apparently Mann Coulter’s father just died
I don’t know which was worse – the number of times I thought “what a complete asshole” while reading Annie’s column, or how proud of him she seemed. It actually made me feel just a bit sorry for her, now that I know a little more about how she got so hateful.
“How many favors can Lucienne have to call in? I had no idea she wielded such power in media and political circles.”
“She’s almost single-handedly responsible for getting the Lewinski scandal up and running. She’s got hundreds of favors left to burn through. Compensating her for that is going to take a lot.”
Also, as Joe Conason and Gene Lyons recount, in “The Hunting of The President”, long before her moral scolding of the adulterous Clinton, she was a notorious libertine, carousing with married men in Washington. She has. quite literally, spent her life servicing the most powerful and hateful elements of our Establishment Right, and she’s been well-compensated for her voluminous dirty works. This endless promotion of her worthless son and his garbage of a “book” is just the most public manifestation of her rewards.
Unfortunately, Canadian Conservatives under Stephen Harper are more like Bushians than any other crop of Conservatives in Canadian history. That is because they are not the traditional Conservatives, but the result of the takeover by Harpo’s version of the right-wing populist Reform Party, which Harpo helped to de-populistify and neoconize. That’s why I like to call them Reformatories.
so many self-described conservatives were in favor of government activism that they had to come up with a name for them. “Running-dog liberals” apparently seemed too pejorative…
So self-described conservatives = liberals, and self-described National Socialists = liberals. Everything means what Goldberg wants it to mean. How terribly convenient.
Heh. They have a blog post up about how to remove your own content from Google searches.
Eee hee hee … [tippy toe sneaking]
Oh, indeed. But having that on the Tory side in the UK is a sign of healthy politics. Considering where he’d fit on the US spectrum is a testament to the power of the Holy Wingnut.
The sad fact? Even if we did let that smiling cunt Cameron into power, and he DID sell off the NHS to the highest bidder.. Britain would still have something closer to universal healthcare than anything Hillary has proposed.
Cameron’s tree hugging act alone would paint him as a hippy in the eyes of most conservative americans.
The trouble with the American right wing spectrum, is there are just too many conflicting ideologies crammed into one Republican party. Britain has that nazi fucker Griffen, who the conservative party wouldn’t touch with a 10 foot aryan bargepole. He has to start his own pissant little party. The american equivilent, the nazi fucker Tancredo, gets welcomed into the right wing mainstream however.
The American right wing is a cornucopia of wingnuttiness. From the glibertarians, to the racists, to the plutocrats, the theocrats, the isolationists, the interventionists, and the downright racists. All crammed into one political party.
I believe it was that great British philosopher and part time economist, Edina Monsoon who said “Just tax the stupid people.”
I’m alright with that.
Conservatism, quite simply, is a mess these days.
It’s called a “diet”, fatboy. Maybe y’all ought to point some of them “personal responsibility” fingers at your mirrors, asshole.
As to Jon Swift’s bomb, might I suggest that this is an opportune time to turn up the heat and make sure each and every progressive blog has that link on it, somwhere, even if it’s just in comments?
This way, Google cannot ignore it.
Oh, and one more thing: “fuckwad” was number one this morning.
“How many favors can Lucienne have to call in? I had no idea she wielded such power in media and political circles.”
Honestly? This is an entirely unrealistic explanation. All you guys already know everything I’m about to say, you just want there to be a more evil explanation for WaPo publishing goldberg.
Dead tree publishing is NOT profitable. The companies that own and run newspapers have decided that the only salvation, other than brutal staff cuts, is to generate ad revenue from the website.
Goldberg has created lots of controversy with this stupid book. Just look at the percentage of Sadly posts that talk about it. Controversy equals buzz. Buzz equals clicks. Clicks equals money.
I know, this ain’t news, but being intentionally wrong about stuff isn’t what you guys are usually about, so I thought it worth saying…
mikey
This is true. But the one good thing about it is election season. Because their collected interests begin to conflict, and this begins what might be called the media equivalent of a catfight in a bag. And it’s funny.
Remember Dan Senor, the Coalition Provisional Authoritah spokesman in Iraq? Skinny guy with glasses and a pointy head? Google almost hired him back in 2005 as a VP for Communications.
Senor must have a fan or two in Google management, and if they thought hiring a universal symbol for laughable mendacity was a good idea, they’d probably have intervened to spike Swift if they got enough complaints. An email from Senor or Lucianne (or Jonah) would have done the trick, too.
Oh god yes. The Ron Paul Show is one of the funniest things on at the moment. Top THAT you hollywood writers!
With dear old Mittens and Fuckabee duking it out to see who is the best theocrat, the cultist or the redneck..
Not to mention the oldschool corruption, represented by Rudi “has anyone seen my lipstick?” gulliani.
It’s a brilliant circus. I am only thankful I don’t have a ringside seat.
Goldberg has created lots of controversy with this stupid book. Just look at the percentage of Sadly posts that talk about it. Controversy equals buzz. Buzz equals clicks. Clicks equals money.
You are right, and that may be their strategy, but if so I think that an invisible line has been crossed here. All attention is not good attention. A guy who is known for strangling kittens on his room each day might draw spectators, but that doesn’t mean that it would be smart to plaster him with corporate logos.
Web pages provide advertisers with much more flexibility and information than TV stations. In addition to the number of people seeing the ad, they can measure the number who click on it, and the percentage of clicks that lead to a purchase. It won’t take long before ad execs learn the difference between laughing with and laughing at.
So true, and Jonah’s either being needlessly obtuse here or he really is an idiot. In Jonah’s world, “government” is measured on a one-dimensional scale from big to small. A slightly better real-world approximation might be to measure government in two-dimensions: size versus competence. Still not the best way to abstract government, but it’s sure a lot better than Jonah’s “You’re-Either-With-Or-Against-Government” paradigm.
I was going to wander over to Jonah’s blog to tell him this, but there’s no comments section.
I was going to wander over to Jonah’s blog to tell him this, but there’s no comments section.
Dialogue is fascist.
I don’t know if you got the memo, but the way his name is spelled is, “Rudy 9iu11iani.”
It’s a brilliant circus. I am only thankful I don’t have a ringside seat.
I’d still wear a poncho and some safety glasses just in case – you’re only about two rows back after all, and it does get messy.
Also, I would like to add:
A selfish part of me is hoping Huckabee gets the nomination. He is possibly the rethuglican front runner who would be the bes.. it mean least worst for us in the seats at the back.
If he actually gets the presidency? Oh, the jokes, the mockery, the derision! such an easy target for european scorn!
“Goldberg has created lots of controversy with this stupid book. Just look at the percentage of Sadly posts that talk about it. Controversy equals buzz. Buzz equals clicks. Clicks equals money.”
“All attention is not good attention… the difference between laughing with and laughing at.”
Bingo, pedestrian. Having a product which is an object of ridicule does not help sales. More importantly, our modern right wing does not tolerate any criticism. Their president does not appear before a hostile audience, and their brownshirts-in-diapers happily stalked a private residence.
“…being intentionally wrong about stuff isn’t what you guys are usually about,”
Everything Mr. Goldberg has and is comes from his well-connected parent. Never in his life has he produced anything of value, yet there he stands, fat and happy with a book (advance) from a serious publisher. His entire existence is a wholly negative statement about wingnut welfare, and the crazy movement it supports. His pile of nasty, dishonest attacks against liberals is the exclamation point upon that revealing statement. Making him the object of ridicule is one of the best things S,N! has done of late, and that’s really saying something.
Sounds like Coulter’s mom was quite the bigot, too.
Good times.
I don’t disagree with any of that. My point went to the much smaller question, that being why did the WaPo publish a piece by Jonah Goldberg and the assumption that it MUST have been Lucianne calling in favors. At this point that seems quite apparently to not be the likeliest conclusion.
Hey, don’t blame me. I learned about this Occam fellow from Smiling Mortician….
mikey
They are simply following the tabloid newspaper tradition.
“will they read it? If so, lets publish it!”
“will it damage our reputation? Hey, nobody believes what they read in the newspaper anyway.. our reputation cant get any worse”
“are we going to get sued over it? Who cares, as long as accounting and legal agree that it creates enough readership to pay for the lawsuit”
This is not meant as snark, but am I missing something. Aside from advocating a particularly immature brand of conservatism, isn’t this guy a dreadful writer or is it me? I read a few of his columns and what comes across is did an editor even look at this?
” My point went to the much smaller question, that being why did the WaPo publish a piece by Jonah Goldberg and the assumption that it MUST have been Lucianne calling in favors.”
My apologies for misreading you, mikey. I agree that many other factors could have explained the WaPo’s decision. I agree with you, in doubting that anyone outside the WaPo’s editorial office knows why Goldberg got the nod.
Wait, wait. Last time I looked, Johan was defining himself as a Conservative in the Burkean sense. You know — respect for Legitimate Authority¹… avoid change for the sake of change… all that stuff.² Nothing to say about the size of government, as long as its various branches have been around for long enough.
Now he is saying that the only true Conservatives are those who favour small government and untrammelled market forces [i.e. closer to teh Manchester Liberalism]. Did I miss a memo last night when I was getting trammelled on Akvavit with doppelbock chasers?
1. “Legitimate authority” = total contradiction in terms, sez I.
2. Phrase on hire from J. Goldberg, spinner of verbal gold into straw.
Google certainly doesn’t make it easy to contact them – unless you’re a shareholder – but here is the page to send a complaint.
You’ll probably want to select “Other” since the other categories don’t seem to fit.
This site (not Google) lists all the ways to contact Google.
I used this page of Google’s to see if Jon’s Goldberg entry shows up at all. It does. However, that doesn’t mean it’s in the top ten.
Next, I visited this page and entered Jon’s Goldberg entry and a scathing comment about the snivellers who’d lobbied Google to remove it.
Does anyone else disturbed by that Paying Advertisement over on the right of the S,N! page, hectoring us about “potent products to block damaging effects of DHT that causes hair loss and thinning hair”?
I wonder if the advertisers know something about the demographics of the S,N! readership…
Smut Clyde, I don’t mean to alarm you, but it’s possible that Jonah Goldberg _doesn’t know what he’s talking about_.
I did a little research on this and, not surprisingly, this interpretation does not appear until the 9th or 10th century. Funny that, unless it’s just a seriously lame rationalization to appease the wealthy and powerful so they will keep giving money to the church and/or so they will not burn down the church and kill al the believers.
Why would they call a narrow gate “The Needle” anyway?
You don’t have to say that ‘Lucianne made a call’. The point is that Jonah is a made man in wingnut welfare. He will never have a proper job interview. He will never have to do a piss test before starting work. He will drift from one millionaire-subsidised grace-and-favor position to another. And once you’re in, you never leave — unless, like David Brock, you realise that it’s eating away your insides, and walk away, knowing that life will never be as easy.
As such, an op-ed like this is just part of his promotional campaign, guaranteed to float to the top of the WaPo op-ed submissions pile, because he is a made wingnut.
Wingnut welfare isn’t a meritocracy. It just writes about the marketplace of ideas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst-Wessel-Lied
In the first year of the Nazi regime, radical elements of the SA sang their own parody of [the Horst Wessel Song], reflecting their disappointment that the “socialist” element of National Socialism had not been realised*:
Die Preise hoch, Kartelle fest geschlossen
Das Kapital marschiert mit leisem Schritt
Die Börsianer sind nun Parteigenossen
Und für das Kapital sorgt nun Herr Schmitt
The prices high, the Cartels are tightly closed
Capital marches with a quiet step
The Stockbrokers are now Party Comrades
And Capital is now protected by Herr Schmitt
(Kurt Schmitt was Economics Minister 1933-35.)
* Adam Tooze, The Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy (Allen Lane 2006),
I wouldn’t read that much into Google’s actions. They don’t like it when people Googlebomb
Bullshit. Their algorithm relies on indexing links. They disabled the Miserable Failure Googlebomb after they opened a PAC and Repukes complained.
Why would they call a narrow gate “The Needle” anyway?
And more importantly, how many Reagans can dance on the head of such a needle?
I wouldn’t read that much into Google’s actions. They don’t like it when people Googlebomb
Bullshit. Their algorithm relies on indexing links. They disabled the Miserable Failure Googlebomb after they opened a PAC and Repukes complained.
Actually, this is certainly NOT bullshit. I can’t speak to their motives for this specific act, but I’ve been working with Google literally since they opened their doors, and they have always been hardcore about what they tend to call “spamming the index”. That was, for a very long time, their general phrase for any hacking or manipulation of the interpretations of the index in order to cause the engine to return dishonest or inaccurate results.
It cannot be argued that “miserable failure” should objectively return any results but for sites that use that phrase. The fact that we found it funny and politically effective for that particular Googlebomb, along with others to continue to show up notwithstanding, there is no way one can argue in good faith that it is an accurate or appropriate result for what ought to be an entirely apolitical search engine.
As long as they operate objectively, working to correct ALL manipulations of the search results, they are in fact doing their job in good faith, and should be applauded…
mikey
Look, I get that DoughBob is, to put it mildly, fertile ground for satire. But there is no such thing as an infinite source of laughs. No, not even him.
Unless your intent is to mine this particular lode clean and then drop him forever. I think I would prefer you spent, say, an occasional post on him for the forseeable future, rather than running the well dry all at once.
Just a thought.
RE: “waterboard the darkies”
I just want to point out that they really are not as racist as you imply. They will waterboard the whities too.
After further consideration of my post just above, and after actually reading this article all the way through, I’d like to issue a retraction.
Carry on. Your work is truly never done.
Man, mikey is being almost aggressively reasonable today.
In Jonah’s world, “government” is measured on a one-dimensional scale from big to small.
Yes, except the scale really runs from small to bad.
how many Reagans can dance on the head of such a needle?
How many pins can you stick in the head of an angel?
I remember a bit about how much easier it was for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle…
I hear the Club for Growth has set up a foundation to fund research into genetically engineering camels to a size that will fit through the eye of a needle.
Just for completeness, the “needle” talked about in the Bible is referring to entrances to walled cities. They were made to be just big enough to admit one camel but you had to dismount and walk your camel through thus slowing down invaders. The rich would have to remove their possessions as well, carry them through and then put it all back on the camel. Jesus’ audience would have laughed at this, he was basically telling a populist joke.
Hee-hee. Mikey’s in the pocket of Big Search™
I know, I know! — Alex Keaton! Wait, you mean actual people, not fictional characters? Hey, Real Conservatives don’t worry about the fine line between truth and fiction! (Besides, it’s fun to tweak the Marketards with Alex P. Keaton, who was one of their icons until the “real” Alex, aka Michael J. Fox, outed himself as a dirty stem-cell-research-supporting liberal.)
Speaking of conservative icons, I don’t believe Coulter actually used the word “heaven” in her meritricious little piece. She said her “Daddy is with Reagan and McCarthy now”, and implores the God of that place to “make liberals suffer” for her. Since by all standards of written Catholicism neither Ron nor Joe were going to The Good Place, I say we can take this column as (further) proof that Coulter is an old-fashioned Satanist, striding about the world seeking who He may devour. That would also help explain why so many people without apparent visual impairment have called Ann “hot”…
Although the simultaneous careers of Coulter and Goldberg do exemplify the abiding sexism of our Reichtard opponents. They are both proud to have been spawned from old-school, hardline Conservative stock, but Coulter’s had to work a *hell* of a lot harder than the Doughy Pantload for her wingnut welfare. He’s bobbed from sinecure to sinecure like a turd floating to the top of the toilet tank, while she’s been out there hustling for face time, working her throat raw, working every audience of paying customers she could net. And yet when people say Jonah does his best work sitting on his arse, they snigger that Ann owes her success to quite different positions. Tsk, tsk, tsk.
As for the gate in Jerusalem called The Neede’s Eye, the concept of an (anti-terrorism barrier) entry into a walled city narrow enough to permit entry only for an unburdened pedestrian or camel is certainly pre-medieval. And in a largely illiterate population, threading a needle is one of the few close-focal visual tasks *everyone* is liable to have experienced.
Mikey, could you explain why only right-wingers generate clicks?
At least in the opinions of the folks with the power to hire people for the NYT and WaPo editorial sections these past several years.
(This message typed from the lovely Charlotte Airport, where my plane to TLH developed mechanical problems when we were about to pull away from the gate.)
Mikey, could you explain why only right-wingers generate clicks?
I agree that publishing in the US is biased toward corporate profits, which causes them to be biased toward the political party they see as serving that imperative, namely the corporatist wing of the republican party, but even believing that I don’t think your question accurately reflects their behavior.
The ONLY reason they publish Krugman, who’s views are entirely antithetical to their most fervent governmental desires, is that he causes wingnuts heads to explode, and they log on the website to rant against him. A left-wing click generating MACHINE, if you will..
mikey
So, by that reasoning.. Talking smack about Ron Paul is a great way to get website hits.
Oh, those paultards have shot themselves in the foot there!
#
noen said,
January 14, 2008 at 0:30
I remember a bit about how much easier it was for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle…
I hear the Club for Growth has set up a foundation to fund research into genetically engineering camels to a size that will fit through the eye of a needle.
Just for completeness, the “needle” talked about in the Bible is referring to entrances to walled cities. They were made to be just big enough to admit one camel but you had to dismount and walk your camel through thus slowing down invaders. The rich would have to remove their possessions as well, carry them through and then put it all back on the camel. Jesus’ audience would have laughed at this, he was basically telling a populist joke.
Sadly, no. This is a popular chestnut among evangelicals, who generally like having things and money with which to buy more things. Unfortunately for them, the Jesus they purport to abject themselves before is anti-materialist to the point of being an asshole. His message isn’t ‘You’re going to have a really hard time living a moral life with all of those things of yours’, but ‘Sell all of your shit, rich man; give the proceeds to the beggars, tell Daddy to fuck off, and then we can talk.’
Now that is a populist joke. It might not be so funny if you’ve got spending money, but then again few populist jokes are.
I’m breaking S,N!
That was cool. Uhuhhhuhhuhuhh.
The simplest, and most likely explanation for the eye of the needle proverb, is that “camel” was a mistranslation for “rope”, due to the greek words being only one letter apart.
Taken in that context, “eye of the needle” cannot mean anything other than a literal needle, which robs the text of any interpretations which might be more friendly to the rich.
I stand by my lie about the Club for Growth funding a foundation to engineer camels who can fit through needle’s eyes, though.
Because you know those guys would spend every last penny on that before they’d ever consider helping out anyone else.
The Rude One shares his thoughts on the passing of Ann Coulter’s father, and how she chose to remark upon it.
Same with Virgin Mary. In Aramaic, “virgin” and “young woman” were pretty much the same word. But in Greek, there is a distinction, and it’s likely that the original Aramaic texts meant “young woman”, since some of the earlier Greek translations vary on this point.
There’s a Michealangelo sculpture of Moses with horns, because a mistranslation said that Moses had horns.
It’s a good thing the Bible is infalliable, innit it?
I’ll disagree on this one: Krugman was a reliable pro-market economist when hired, who’d earned ire from anti-globalisation people in the 1990s. He was brought in to provide a kind of economic pairing with Tommy ‘Airmiles’ Friedman, except Bush got elected and started treating the economy like a bad dog. The NYT could fire him for writing about changed circumstances, but it wouldn’t look too good.
Well, I don’t like the ‘rope’ argument either; ‘camel through the eye of a needle’ has textual parallels; I think in the bits written in Babylon there’s a line about elephants parading through needles.
Jewish scholarship finds hyperbole hilarious. In Jerusalem at the time, a camel was the biggest animal you could find. So ‘camel going through the eye of a needle’ fits what Jesus’s language use would have been like: the biggest animal he could think of through the smallest space he could think of.
Also, I’m surprised no one has brought out the Phil Hartman video yet. (Fucking YouTube all worshipping Viacom’s dick.)
Here’s a ***ROUGH*** take-down of Ann Coulter’s eulogy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-kelly/ann-coulter-kills-at-her-_b_81130.html
Written by a striking WGA member.
Woo…
you really are a right stinker
funny how you never hear “left stinker”…
Well, you’ll notice the neocons don’t pretend to be socialists any more.
[…] Google = Cobagz […]
how much easier it was for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle…
Give me an industrial blender and an eye-dropper. I’ll show how it’s done.
Oooo! That’s an idea for one of those Will it Blend? commercials.
Give me an industrial blender and an eye-dropper. I’ll show how it’s done.
Seems like a lot of work. How about a big plating vat full of 30% Sulfuric?
mikey
After all, there’s nothing in the Bible that says “Thou shalt … butt-rape the environment …”
That’s covered by G*d’s instructions to “subdue [the earth]: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.” You may think that it’s an overly broad interpretation, to read this as a direct instruction to strip-mine the mountains and drift-net the oceans into sterility; but better to be safe than sorry.
I was born in the same hospital as Ann Coulter’s father. And I’m about 45% Scottish.
This is irrelevant, but Ann Coulter oes not deserve to call herself a Scot. We’re among the first peoples to experience being colonized. She has utterly missed this, and thus a huge part of why we’re such a morose, stubborn folk. It’s not Scottish to be an asshole piece of shit.
Ah well, I bet Ann is in hell right now. Her entire existence was determined by “Father”, and now she’s on her own. God is dead, yet her universe remains. Nihilism looms.
#Jennifer said, The Rude One shares his thoughts on the passing of Ann Coulter’s father, and how she chose to remark upon it.
Good for the rude pundit. I’ve never cared for pretending shit smells like perfume during eulogies, wakes, and funerals.
Example: my biological mother. Although I nursed and cared for her when she was terminally ill – and have no regrets about bending over backwards for her and would do the same all over again – I did not stand at the pulpit and speak of her in glowing terms. Neither did my brother and sister. To be kind (and respect the needs of the willfully blind), we didn’t speak at all. The only people who spoke at her funeral were not family members. In life she’d been a violent alcoholic who’d made two attempts on my life before the age of fifteen. All of her kids left home young to escape the madness. Most people still don’t know how awful she was to us and I’m sure they were disturbed by our silence at the funeral. I simply don’t care. When my dead beat father kicks the bucket I won’t be speaking at his funeral either (and if he doesn’t leave any of the kids he abandoned – without so much as a goodbye – anything in his will I’ll be suing his estate. We lived in rags while he spent thousands supporting his golf habit.)
I worked with an extremely abusive individual (a no holds barred racist and sexist pig of a man) who happened to kick the bucket at work from a sudden heart attack caused by his three pack a day habit. The employer invited everyone who’d worked with him to a round table to express their feelings. A psychologist was present to moderate the event. Although no one had anything good to say about the deceased during the time he’d lived, at this roundtable they lied through their teeth about what a wonderful caring human being he’d been. Everyone except me. I said I wished he had been different so that I could say something grand but I just couldn’t. He’d hurt so many people. The presiding psychologist later told me he’d received emails from the silent participants expressing appreciation for what I’d said because they’d often been targeted and harassed by the deceased. I’ve gotten the cold shoulder from a few hypocrites but I don’t care. The man was an asshole.
Death doesn’t change the truth. Or it shouldn’t.
Ah well, I bet Ann is in hell right now. Her entire existence was determined by “Father”, and now she’s on her own. God is dead, yet her universe remains. Nihilism looms.
At night, the ice weasels come.
I thought it needed a little something extra.
Taken in that context, “eye of the needle” cannot mean anything other than a literal needle, which robs the text of any interpretations which might be more friendly to the rich.
It is much simpler than that though, because in the context of the passage itself it cannot be friendly to the rich.
– A rich man asks Jesus how he can go to heaven.
– Jesus says, “Give all of your money to the poor and follow me”
– Rich man is sad, but would rather keep the money.
– Jesus lays down the camel & needle quote.
If the wealthy sponsors of the church want to get out of this one, they will need to go beyond redefining “camel” and “needle” and find a way that you can give all your money to the poor and still be rich.
Oh, right, tax-deductible charitable contributions. Gee, those rich are smart!
Jennifer: The charming aspect of that “Moses had horns” gag is that, well, it resulted in centuries of anti-Semites thinking Jews actually had horns.
Cause the Bible is infallible, innit.
I forget how that mistranslation started. Something about “halo” and “horns” looking the same in Greek?
– Rich man swipes quote from Jesus.
– Jesus fades to the left.
– Rich man passes it to a money changer.
– Jesus steals from money changer.
– He dribbles it down the field.
– He kicks it… GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!
Oh pedestrian, you don’t give them nearly enough credit: I have actually heard multiple preachers say Jesus’ charge to “sell all you have, give the proceeds to the poor, and follow me” was ONLY to that one man because Jesus knew THAT man’s problem was his selfishness, not his wealth.
In other news — after centuries of idle speculation, researchers are collecting actual empirical evidence as to how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.
Sometimes the experiments end in disaster.
Can I just say that I’ve crossed something of a Photoshop Rubicon, vis-a-vis actually painting elements into the images?
[disappears back behind the rotating bookcase]
That’s an idea for one of those Will it Blend? commercials.
“Will it Blend?” is merely the first question. Next comes the question, “Will it blend with ice, rum and lime-juice to make a novel daiquirí?”
The Camel Daiquirí recipe still needs work.
Poor Gavin, you do too well and people don’t even notice just how good it is. It is certainly very well done, bravo.
Camelmile tea, perhaps?
Wait. Who was that guy? Shove the andirons in the opening before he gets away!
Can I just say that I’ve crossed something of a Photoshop Rubicon, vis-a-vis actually painting elements into the images?
Yes. Yes you can.
Oh, and everybody knows that the candlestick sconce on the right opens the rotating bookcase. You might want to change the mechanism.
Or at least put in a booby trap.
‘Cause it’s hard to trap enough boobies….
mikey
Damn. Random idiot beat me to it. And I’ll stick with this one: trying to thread a rope through a needle makes more sense than picking some random object (“uhhh, a cooking pot. Nah, wait, a weaving loom. No, no, I’ve got it: a camel! Yeah, that’ll work!”), since a rope is a kind of overgrown thread (which is something that frequently gets threaded through needles).
I remember some knob-headed ‘fundamentalist’ Christian type trying to tell me that Teh Bibble was the literal word of god. Oops, God. He was not even slightly discomfited when I brought up a few questions: apparently the bible is the literal word of god except for those bits that are allegorical. Glad we sorted that one out.
Pity none of these buggers read ancient Greek or Aramaic. Pity some of it was written a goodly time after Yeshua’s death, by people who’d never met him. Still, literal word of god it is, and we have to respect that, right? Right?
In other news — after centuries of idle speculation, researchers are collecting actual empirical evidence as to how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.
Sometimes the experiments end in disaster.
But Smut, they not only have to fit, they have to dance. I picture several dozen angels, perched precariously, attempting a strenuous Black Bottom.
The saddest thing about the Christian religion is how they took such a fundamentally powerful human story, about that dude that shows up in every generation and every culture to call bullshit on the bullshit and who more often than not gets martyred by the very folks he was trying to help for his trouble…and then mucked it all up with virgin births and all that happy crappy. Because if there’s a fundamental truth about the human condition, that is it and all the superstitious nonsense grafted to the top of it just makes a lot of people reject the whole ball of wax. The supreme irony of it all being, of course, that the vast majority of those who claim to be his followers have most likely never, ever, ever, looked at the whole thing from that perspective to see what it suggests should be our path in life.
I picture several dozen angels, perched precariously, attempting a strenuous Black Bottom.
According to ‘Good Omens’, angels have difficulty with the concept of ‘boogying down’. The best they can do is to perform a decorous gavotte. I have no idea what a gavotte entails; I always thought it was a form of execution.
I think that’s a garotte.
I’d much rather be gavotted than dance a garrote.
And don’t forget the it’s not just any Bible that’s the literal word of God, it’s the KJV… despite the fact that neither Jesus, Abraham, Moses, etc. even uttered a thee, thy, tho, wherefore or whatnot in their entire lives.
I suspect that booby traps are named after the bait, mikey.
I suspect that booby traps are named after the bait, mikey.
Um, ok. That works for me.
I’d fall for a trap baited with boobies.
Every goddam time.
I suspect I’d NEVER learn…
mikey
Hey! Did anybody see Thomas Sowell’s column about the “Myths of 1968”?
Highlight: Just to show how carefully researched the article is, Sowell says that Sirhan B. Sirhan is Iranian.
Hee hee.
Can somebody get us a link? I’m supposed to be working.
There are families of English aristocrats who hauled themselves out of the lower classes by setting booby-traps and attaching themselves to some prince with a roving eye.
They’re the ones with the Bra Sinister on their coat-of-arms.
I have no idea what a gavotte entails
I have it on good authority that it has something to do with Warren Beatty wearing an apricot scarf.
Bye the bye, my one-star review of LF is back up at Amazon. I wrote and asked why it had been taken down, seeing as how it had no obscenities and a decent “helpful” rating, and they said something about a new database setup that may have removed it. Whatever. It’s back up. Anyone else who had one struck down should write and ask the same question.
Just for you, Hoosier.
Yes, because we all know that anyone who is Muslim must be an Arab, meaning Iranians must be Arabs (despite the fact that they’re ethnically Persians), and since Sirhan’s parents were Arabs (though Christians), he must be Iranian (despite the fact that he was born in Jerusalem).
That should make it about as crystal clear as split pea soup.
Jonah focuses on social programs but what about the fact that conservatives suport big government when it comes to violating civil liberties, spying on US citizens, etc?
Most conservatives today favors big government. They only differ in which parts they want to be more intrusive.
Ah yes. Hatred is a complex thing. If you hate muslims, should that include american muslims? Indian muslims? If you hate iranians, should you hate iranian christians? How bout iranian secularists. Oh yeah. EVERY fuckin BODY hates secularists.
But this whole hatred of trans-national groups is difficult, complex and a little slippery. And the bigots on the right have not demonstrated the kind of mental acuity necessary for post-millennial hatred.
I move they be disqualified…
mikey
I see the parser left out the Amazon address. It’s community dash help at amazon dot com.
From the Sowell piece:
Tet is a local holiday? What, they celebrate it in Qui Non province and that’s it?
If these fuckers ever figure out that America is not the center of the universe and the rest of the world has real culture and history outside of Ronald Reagan, they will have to shut the fuck up, because they won’t be able to deal with that…
mikey
From the Sowell piece, Sirhan Sirhan has apparently stopped being Iranian and started being “a Palestinian immigrant,” and there’s a tag at the end that reads, “Editor’s note: A fact has been changed since publication.”
Good for them for being reasonably responsible and whatnot, but “a fact has been changed?” That is one clumsy-ass way to phrase a correction …
Blue Buddha said,
January 14, 2008 at 2:48
– [Jesus] kicks it… GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!
– Jaysoos runs off field screaming “I keeck touchdown! I keeck touchdown!”
Thanks, Smiling Mortician!
Back to work.
I remember some knob-headed ‘fundamentalist’ Christian type trying to tell me that Teh Bibble was the literal word of god. Oops, God. He was not even slightly discomfited when I brought up a few questions: apparently the bible is the literal word of god except for those bits that are allegorical. Glad we sorted that one out.
Similarly, all of the racist crap in Ron Paul’s newsletters were written by people other than Ron Paul, while he wrote all of the sensible-conservative stuff.
There, that ought to get the comments up over 500.
– Jesus steals from money changer.
Money changer falls to ground, clutching shin, screaming.
Whistle blows. Umpire red-cards Jesus; awards penalty kick to Rich Men side.
Neo-cons and Hitler.
Interesting piece on this in today’s Times.
Smut Clyde said,
January 14, 2008 at 4:24
– Jesus steals from money changer.
Money changer falls to ground, clutching shin, screaming.
Whistle blows. Umpire red-cards Jesus; awards penalty kick to Rich Men side.
Jesus rudely gestures to crowd at Old Trafford, which reacts with louds chants of “Oi! Oi! Oi!”
Vin Scully said,
January 14, 2008 at 4:13
From the Sowell piece, Sirhan Sirhan has apparently stopped being Iranian and started being “a Palestinian immigrant,” and there’s a tag at the end that reads, “Editor’s note: A fact has been changed since publication.”
Good for them for being reasonably responsible and whatnot, but “a fact has been changed?” That is one clumsy-ass way to phrase a correction …
No, that’s absolutley the correct way for the National Review to phrase a correction. After all, facts are inconvenient things.
-Umpire sidles up to Rich Men Team Coach.
“Um, you sure you’re good for the money?”
“Dude, I coach the Rich Men. I’ve got money coming out my ass!”
“Yeah, but a lot of you guys are rich because you don’t ever come through with the money you promise. Listen, fuckwad, I red carded JESUS CHRIST! My eternal soul is in play here. Don’t fuck around with me.”
“You listen to me, you little pissant. You WILL continue to fuck with jesus, and you continue to see that this contest goes the way I want it too. You do NOT want to try to drive home if I’m pissed.”
“No, c’mon coach, nothing like that. I’ve totally got your back. Watch this. In the next period I’m gonna trip that son of god fucker and see if I can fuck up his knee.”
“Don’t bother. He seems to heal pretty fast.”….
mikey
(This message typed from the lovely Charlotte Airport, where my plane to TLH developed mechanical problems when we were about to pull away from the gate.)
Fuckin US Airways.
a different brad says …She has utterly missed this, and thus a huge part of why we’re such a morose, stubborn folk. It’s not Scottish to be an asshole piece of shit.
Well, brad we do have our share, but they are mostly shunned by polite Scottish society. People with Annie’s viewpoint and manner tend to be pitied in Scoland, rather than getting a newspaper column (yes we do have right wing assholes, but we keep them around to laugh at).
It always galls me that Annie has a Scottish name, and like most third generations Scots (and Irish for that matter), she has an odd ideas about the old homeland. Bet her father had some gawdy tartan piece of shit on the mantelpiece.
alec said:
“Sadly, no. This is a popular chestnut among evangelicals, who generally like having things and money with which to buy more things. Unfortunately for them, the Jesus they purport to abject themselves before is anti-materialist to the point of being an asshole.”
That was great alec, nice catch. I was raised ALC Lutheran here in Minn, yaaaaa you betcha, and I heard this from my pastor many years ago. So perhaps it was some interpretation that was all the rage in seminary back then I don’t know. Funny how you just pack things like that away and then they pop back up 30 years later.
From Sowell:
“The American media, led by Walter Cronkite, pictured the Tet offensive as a defeat for the United States and a sign that the Vietnam War was unwinnable.”
So according this dickwad Walter Cronkite lost Vietnam for us. Way to go right to the bottom Thomas. We can always count on you.
Yep… it’s all Cronkite’s fault. And this is despite the fact that segments of LBJ’s tapes from as early as 1965 has him talking to military advisers from the Pentagon about how the war in Vietnam is unwinnable.
Huh… interesting book. I heard someone mention before that the neocons are actually just a bunch of washed up Trotskyists. I wonder what they carried over from his ideas and dressed it up in a “conservative” package.
From Sowell:
“The American media, led by Walter Cronkite, pictured the Tet offensive as a defeat for the United States and a sign that the Vietnam War was unwinnable.”
So according this dickwad Walter Cronkite lost Vietnam for us. Way to go right to the bottom Thomas. We can always count on you.
Yep… it’s all Cronkite’s fault. And this is despite the fact that segments of LBJ’s tapes from as early as 1965 has him talking to military advisers from the Pentagon about how the war in Vietnam is unwinnable.
So, we were on the verge of winning in Vietnam in 1968, but thanks to Walter Cronkite, the liberal media and the damn hippie college protestors, we ended up losing…five fucking years later.
Well, yeah.
I’m pretty sure it wasn’t MY fault…
mikey
Speaking of revisionist history, Sowell is polishing up the ol’ Dolchstoßlegende. The wingnuts are going to need it soon.
But … Sirhan is Iranian! AND he killed a presidential candidate!
WE MUST INVADE IRAN RIGHT NOW AND TEACH THEM A LESSON!
So according this dickwad Walter Cronkite lost Vietnam for us.
A quick question on etiquette: in polite society, can one talk about the NVA winning in Vietnam? Or does that credit too much importance to the Vietnamese, in what (according to the Dolchstoßlegende) was essentially a conflict among Americans?
Or does that credit too much importance to the Vietnamese, in what (according to the Dolchstoßlegende) was essentially a conflict among Americans?
Well, considering that Algerian youth rioting in the suburbs of Paris have no other meaning than to demonstrate of our lack of will to do What Must be Done, I’d say that the Vietnamese should count themselves lucky that we even mention them at all.
*AHEM*
When an armored brigade rolls into your capitol and deposes your government, the government that sent them is the winner. If the NVA didn’t win in vietnam, then the US didn’t win in Iraq.
Now, that said, we’re seeing the same thing again. I know, what a surprise. The indigenous military forces would rather draw their pay and let american soldiers draw the fire. ARVN was never really ready to fight the NVA. Bits and pieces, sure, you’ll encounter professionalism in the damndest places, but as a unified fighting force, they just never had any motivation to get their shit together. And when push came to shove, they didn’t know what to do without american support, arty, air and leadership.
Combat leadership is a funny thing. You can’t fake it. You can’t create it without the “crucible of combat”. But even then, if you don’t actually use the experience to figure out how to effectively lead men in battle, you waste lives and get nothing out of it. And don’t think the infantry under you can’t see that.
We’re making the same mistakes in Iraq, and when the real bloodletting starts, the guys that have individually learned to lead men in combat are going to end up with large chunks of power and geography.
Part of me thinks I oughta just go over there and set up a righteous fiefdom…
mikey
“Shut up. We didn’t lose Vietnam. It was a tie.”
I was listening to Chris Lydon’s conversation with Anthony Barnett the other day, and he suggested that Vietnam was, in essence, the last bit of a violent anti-European decolonialisation struggle which the US had mistaken for a Cold War conflict. That’s no comfort for those who fought there, of course: “sorry, guys, your brothers in arms died for a historiographic misinterpretation.”
Well, it’s pretty clear that the civilian populations of Vietnam (South & North), Cambodia, and Laos massively lost.
From Sowell:
“The American media, led by Walter Cronkite, pictured the Tet offensive as a defeat for the United States and a sign that the Vietnam War was unwinnable.”
I thought the big shock about Tet was finding out that the government had been lying to us all along. According to them, the future was so bright (and the body counts so high) that we had to wear shades. In other words, something like Tet was unpossible for the NVA.
And then, there it was.
That’s no comfort for those who fought there, of course: “sorry, guys, your brothers in arms died for a historiographic misinterpretation.”
You kiddin me? If it had even THAT much meaning, if somebody could offer an explanation that rang genrerally true and fit in a shoebox, we’d be delighted.
The reason vietnam is fucked up is there IS no reason. There’s no logical explanation for the deaths and the horror. There’s no way to look me or any other grunt in the eye and say, “well see, here’s why you were there…”.
If anybody, anywhere ever comes up with an explanation that makes sense, they’ll heal the open sores faster than you can even imagine.
But you’ll forgive me if I’m not holding my breath…
mikey
I think there are three main terrible reasons for Viet Nam:
1) to show the world that we will destroy a nation rather than let it make it’s own terms
2) to sell a lot of products for the Arms Industry
3) to advance a lot of careers in the government and defense department, for lying to others and themselves
Cynical? Maybe. Backed by history? Absolutely.
I almost wish there were no reasons; that might actually be better than these ones…
I figured out what Jonah Goldberg MEANT to say in his book. Unfortunately Claudia Koonz ( a professor of history at Duke University) already said it on pages 273-274 of her book, The Nazi Conscience
I highly recommend Koontz’s book. It provides a step-by-step analysis, with evidence, of the Nazi strategy to prepare Germans to accept the Holocaust as a simple duty to ensure the well-being of the Volk.
Funny thing, the Tet Offensive. One of the many difficulties the United States faced in Vietnam was not clear until after the fact. The NVA had an unorthodox strategy called patience. The United States was fighting traditionally, send out troops, engage the enemy and when you send them home packing and/or packed up in coffins and body bags, you win. And you can tell you’re winning because of your momentum, carrying you towards your objective. America’s objective in Vietnam was vague when it existed at all (stop the spread of Communism is not a military objective). The NVA and Viet Cong’s objective was destroy the south’s leadership. The Tet Offensive failed to dislodge American forces and it destroyed the Viet Cong as a fighting force, but it was barely a victory because the United States had no momentum and ARVN was mostly worthless and confused. Back home in the states, Tet really did look like a defeat because of the lack of any forward momentum for Americans and South Vietnamese. The US and ARVN never took advantage of the Tet victory. I don’t think they could.
For my part, I think Lyndon Johnson had a noble reason to be in Vietnam. He really thought he was doing the south a favor. But, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. That and good does not exclude the possibility one’s intentions are misguided. Vietnam could have been spared an ugly war, and the US probably would have had a sideshow showdown elsewhere for us to grapple with thirty, forty years later.
– [Jesus] kicks it… GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!
– Jaysoos runs off field screaming “I keeck
touchdowngoal! I keecktouchdowngoal!”Fixed that for ye. What follows is Jesus running across the field, shirt pulled over his head, to leap into an arms-and-legs-akimbo hug of number 8 (Confucius, naturally), while the crowd launches into a three-tone chant of “Jee-ee-sus, Jee-ee-sus” that makes the ground shake.
The fact is, you liberals can provide nothing to refute Jonah Goldberg’s arguement which is why you resort to childish name calling and personal attacks. What proof do you have that fascism was a Rightwing political philosophy? You have none. However Jonah provided much evidence in support of his thesis that fascism is a leftwing ideology.
The US was in Vietnam for a bunch of reasons. I recently read something that makes sense to me, about the US fear that a Communist win in Vietnam would embolden radical elements in Indonesia, a huge trading partner with the US, ruled by a US-backed dictator, and there was a lot of thought that it was better to fight the Communists in Vietnam than to eventually have to fight them in indonesia, where it would have been very disruptive of trade.
My God. It’s monstruous, and it gets more monstruous the more I think about it.
The people we are fighting here in our own country? They are pigs.
Hasn’t it been it nice lately without the things flailing about underfoot?
Do not feed.
“I wonder what they carried over from his ideas and dressed it up in a “conservative” package.”
This question has always fascinated me too. David Horowitz falls into this “mood swing” as well.
It’s like the meter swings wildly from left to right. Sometimes I believe it’s just political opportunism. Hey, I just reinvented myself and I have a new job ! sort of thing.
Hoosier: On the other hand, when we weren’t feeding the hydra, we got a Nazi.
Man I love Sundays. Mine ended eight minutes ago, and marked one of the most restful and relazing days I’ve had in a while. Hope everyone’s week starts off well.
Is Jonah still stupid?
The Fate of the Patriot
Yeah, Bubba.
Maybe we should get updates if he ever shows signs of self awareness or something. To save space.
And Hoosier, I get a mental image of a canoe full of hagfish.
Heil the New Photoshop!!
I’d make the same gesture to the redshyte, too! The scum.
I prefer the Nazi.
After all, there’s nothing in the Bible that says “Thou shalt waterboard the darkies, butt-rape the environment and eliminate the capital gains tax.”
I can’t access the citation right now but I know some right-wing Christians believe that Jesus LOVES tax cuts.
Edina and Patsy in court
Gee, no shit Sherlock.
Being that I am a conservative, a genuine conservative, not one of these faux neo-“cons”, all I have to say is: chickens, roost, home. After you disinvited us from your Republican party, and by 1980 had either driven us off, or marginalized those too stubborn to leave, what the hell else did you expect?
Goldberg is a neo-“con”, he is a long time supporter of neo-“cons”. He is the problem and he’s just too fucking stupid to see that. Yeah, I just got through his craptacular tome, and the whole thing is misdirection. Animal rights, vegans, reproductive freedom for women, gay marriage, Hollywood: Hitler, fascism, fascism, fascism. Keep a weather eye on those “librulz”. Bombing the shit out of countries that never threatened the US; invading one country while it was the citizens of another who attacked the US on 9-11; planning to nuke Iran which can’t threaten the US; Bush Doctrine: nope, no “fascism” there. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
“‘Running-dog liberals’ apparently seemed too pejorative, so the survey went with ‘pro-government conservatives’, a term that might have caused Ronald Reagan to spontaneously combust.” Reagan: phoniest bastard ever elected.
No, J__, I can assure you: if Calvin Coolidge were alive today, he would hold Mr. Pantload and his neo-“cons” in utter contempt. Unlike Smirky, Coolidge actually took seriously that oath he swore to uphold that “goddamned piece of paper”: the US Constitution.
Yannow, before discovering Sadly No! I actually liked Cheetos. Lately, I’ve found I’ve lost my taste for them.
Qetesh the Qaveat Qat said,
January 14, 2008 at 8:11
– [Jesus] kicks it… GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!
– Jaysoos runs off field screaming “I keeck touchdown goal! I keeck touchdown goal!”
Fixed that for ye. What follows is Jesus running across the field, shirt pulled over his head, to leap into an arms-and-legs-akimbo hug of number 8
I was writing for the Murican audience…yours is fine for the more sophisticated among us, except I’d have him trotting around behind the goal with ten disciples patting him on the back as he tugs at the various adverts on his jersey…THEN sliding across the pitch on his knees, tearing his shirt off before he was to “leap into an arms-and-legs-akimbo hug of number 8”.
So let me see if I can get this straight:
A group of conservatives has united behind a grassroots movement to get Google, a free capitalist enterprise, to supress all criticism of a book that calls liberals fascists (written by a man who says he’s sick of ‘fascist’ being thrown around as a catch-all abusive term) on the grounds, among others, that liberals (ie ‘fascists’) like to suppress criticism, restrict free capitalist enterprises, and unite behind grassroots movements.
Is this the ultimate Mobius loop of hypocrisy? We’ve had some doozies in recent years, but I can’t think of one to match it.
Only we conservatives are so anti-fascist that we would don spiffy uniforms and throw people who disagree with us in camps!
Is this the ultimate Mobius loop of hypocrisy? We’ve had some doozies in recent years, but I can’t think of one to match it.
Hey, if this keeps up they’ll use us as slave labor to print new editions of Jonah’s book from the camps. It would be like the end of that movie Quills, where Charenton is taken over by the authoritarian prude and used to publish the works of the Marquis de Sade. Only, you know, sort of plausible.
Is this the ultimate Mobius loop of hypocrisy? We’ve had some doozies in recent years, but I can’t think of one to match it.
Bush getting re-elected on the basis of his protection of Americans.
Let me guess: they misinterpret the “Render unto Caesar” speech (Matt 22). Some people ask Jesus if it is against Biblical law to pay tribute to Caesar. Jesus asks for some money, and points out that it has a picture of Caesar on it, and not God. Therefore, you should give it back to Caesar, and use things that are God’s for godly purposes (whatever that means).
Fundies looooooove to twist these words around to mean that the church shouldn’t have to pay taxes… or even Christians shouldn’t have to pay taxes.
Obviously there’s “all words and actions by the American right-wing for the last seven years”, but I was hoping to narrow it down a bit…
Jesus asks for some money, and points out that it has a picture of Caesar on it, and not God
Did Jesus ever give that money back? If so, I don’t recall that verse.
Fundies looooooove to twist these words around to mean that the church shouldn’t have to pay taxes… or even Christians shouldn’t have to pay taxes.
I have also heard it said (from the pulpit) that by “seperation of church and state,” Jefferson only meant that churches should be protected from taxes, regulations, or any other form of government interference. Therefore, any law or judicial interpretation that limits the influence of religion in politics actually opposes the original intent of the founders, because the state is intruding into the private affairs of the church (which include running the state.)
Get it?
Also, mosques are not “churches,” because churches are always Christian, so they can and should be wiretapped, raided, and deported brick by brick to Iran.
It’s an enigma wrapped in a riddle wrapped in a paradox wrapped in a puzzle wrapped in a burrito and wrapped in a flaky vanilla crust.
Mike Huckabee told me that Jesus backed a sales-tax based system, with no inheritance taxes so that rich men could more easily get into heaven.
And that to solve Jesus’ conundrum about Caesar being pictured on the money, all we need to do is put Jesus’ picture on all our money, and then all good Christians will be extremely happy to render unto Jesus that which is Jesus’.
No. He shoved it into his sleeve so that he could use it in the future for one of his famous “loaves to fishes” magic tricks… or something like that.
flaky vanilla crust
Wow, those before and after pics really touched me in a deep spiritual way.
A fortune cookie
An opened fortune cookie.
I think… ah ah ah ah ahhhhhh… yup thats enlightenment.
I’m going to enlarge those and plaster them on some posterboard so I can hold them in the subway for the benefit of the damned. Back soon.
Blue Buddha: Don’t you mean “It is the Taco Town Ultimate Taco?”
Did Jesus ever give that money back?
Yes. He asked to see the coin, was handed the coin and as he returns the coin, “Render unto Caesar…” but that’s not the justification right wing moralists use for being rich on earth.
The usual justification is the Parable of the Talents, in which Jesus speaks of a man who gives three servants each a bag of money. The servant who did not double his master’s money was the only one who was punished:
(Matthew 25:14-30)
Common theologic interpretation is as a critique of governance, or perhaps talents as a metaphor for spirituality or fatih, because keep in mind that usury (interest) was illegal amongst Jews in Jesus’ time.
Details like that, however, slip past hoi polloi, so scam artists have run that piece of garbage for centuries.
You know, I was just laughing the other day at how intelligent people read the Parable of the Talents as a parable which serves as a lesson about spreading the teachings of the church and of God, and conservatives thinks it’s Jesus giving basic investment advice.
You could make the case, El Cid, that Jesus tells this story as one of the few true examples of Biblical snark, in that the one servant who did *right* (in Jesus’ view) was the one who ultimately gets punished.
Imagine Jon Swift writing that blogpost, if this image isn’t clear.
Oops. I just realized I brought this thread to a crashing halt by being so serious.
Carry on!
The fact is, you liberals trying to understand the Bible is like me trying to write a symphony, not gonna happen. You liberals don’t know anything about God or His Word, if you did you would accept the free gift of Salvation that Jesus Christ offers to all who call upon His Name! Instead you libeals love to mock and blaspheme the Name of Jesus, and you also like to cherry pick parts of the Bible you like (usually taken out of context) and disregard the parts you don’t like, such as Salvation through Jesus Christ alone! When Christ spoke about giving to the poor and feeding the hungry He was referring to private acts of charity not government cohersion as you liberals seem to think. God created all men with free will, we must all make the choice of whether to serve Him or not!
Yes, pie is just the thing to introduce a little levity back into the thread!
The fact is, conservatives hate and have always hated Jesus. Well, not every Jesus.
There are in fact 3 Jesus’s, and the right has always preferred two of the Jesus’s, and hated the last one.
One is the baby Jesus, silent, cute, who exists to give you Christmas.
Two is the adult Jesus who said things and who preached about brotherhood and the poor and all else.
Three is the Jesus, dying on the cross and floating up into heaven.
Jesus number 1 they pretend to like because of the gifts and decorations and manger scenes and, now, because whining about the War on Christmas makes them feel like they’re free to hate even at Christmas!!!
The last one they like the best, because he’s the ATM machine for them, they owe him nothing but a few empty words like their ATM card code, and in return he gives them free entry into heaven. All through life they get to sin, sin, sin, sin, sin, hate everybody and share nothing, but they’ve got their Holy PIN code to open them Pearly Gates! The money-shot Jesus, in other words.
The 2nd Jesus they don’t care for at all, which is why they are currently acting so p***ed off about Mike Huckabee, who’s talking about helping the poor instead of b****ing about “welfare queens” and brown people filling up emergency rooms and the like.
Or we could just consider the Bible an old book with loads of useless information, endless justifications for violence and hatred, and a few pretty verses.
and then get on with living in the real world.
Reality is too liberally biased for conservatives, billy. They just can’t handle the truth.
I hear Three Bulls just dropped a mixtape beefing with Jonah.
Detail and care in Jonah’s research:
I dunno, billy.
When they start talking about how they would go out and kill people if the Hebrew rip-off of Hammurabi’s Code didn’t explicitely tell them not to, I wonder how wise it is to put a finger in that pot.
The spam filter hates me. Check the liberal fascism blog for Jonah wondering where he can get copies of editorials that appeared on CBS news in the 70s.
CBS PERHAPS?
Also, Jonah wants to mail a letter and he wonders if someone could affix the stamp for him.
Let me know if he can also find the race-baiting editorials on local TV that Jesse Helms broadcast in the 1960s, which strangely disappeared from all known archives.
Bastion Booger said,
January 14, 2008 at 19:11
The fact is, you liberals trying to understand the Bible is like me trying to write a symphony, not gonna happen. You liberals don’t know anything about God or His Word, if you did you would accept the free gift of Salvation that Jesus Christ offers to all who deposit $2,500 in any WaMu checking account!
Fixed your post, atheist.
billy pilgrim said,
January 14, 2008 at 19:26
Or we could just consider the Bible an old book with loads of useless information, endless justifications for violence and hatred, and a few pretty verses.
I dunno, BP, that whole “Love thy neighbor” thing is pretty good learnin’…
I know, it’s funny how nobody loved anybody until the Bible came along
I know, it’s funny how nobody loved anybody until the Bible came along
Hmf. Leda loved a swan.
It sounds like he doesn’t know how to dial a fucking phone.
It’s like that one Simpson’s episode where Smithers goes on vacation, and Mr. Burns doesn’t know how to “stop making his phone ring”.
all we need to do is put Jesus’ picture on all our money, and then all good Christians will be extremely happy to render unto Jesus that which is Jesus’.
And since Christians believe Jesus lives in them…
Leda loved a swan.
I would also like to note that Gilgamesh loved Inka Dinka Doo.
And in that same vein, it’s important to know that Lord Love a Duck…
mikey
I hope to Jaby Besus that JLoad wrote this:
January 15, 2008 6:30 PM
Goldberg reveals the shocking continuities between fascism of the 1930’s and the liberal fascism of today.
Or we could just consider the Bible an old book with loads of useless information, endless justifications for violence and hatred, and a few pretty verses.
and then get on with living in the real world.
As I said last night, it would hard to find a more “real world” story than that of a guy who speaks truth to power and gets royally fucked by that power, via the demands of the people he was trying to help. If that’s not a universal human story, I don’t know what is. The story of Jesus is a very powerful one, if you strip off all the superstitious nonsense about a spirit impregnating a virgin and all the miracles. What’s sad is that a lot of non-superstitious people get completely put off by all the miracles and throw the whole lot out, while most of the true believers focus on the hokum to the exclusion of all else.
This is why I don’t call myself an atheist or an agnostic, though I’m not a “believer” in the commonly understood sense. It’s because there’s a lot of good stuff there, real truth about the way the world works…it’s just been wrapped up in so many layers of bullshit that you have to really look for it to find it.
I hope to Jaby Besus that JLoad wrote this:
No no! That’s not what he meant! He explicitly rejects that liberals are like German fascists in that book called Liberal Fascism with the Hitler smiley on the cover!
Yeah.
Okay, I agree with Jillian about the archetype. But you bury a veritable feast beneath several tons of bullshit and I still ain’t eatin’ it….
and the “thou shalt not kill” thing seems to have plenty of loopholes for the bloodthirsty among ’em. Ol’ BB-Saul_kevvy-Gary all seem to believe that wholesale slaughter of liberals will be exonerated by whatever twisted Deity they believe in. If only True Believers didn’t always figure that they’d get some kind of spiritual Get Out Of Jail Free Card for killin the ones that God really hates…
Y’know, maybe time to start over.
Is it just me or does that pic of Pantload keep changing? Far out.
If anybody, anywhere ever comes up with an explanation that makes sense, they’ll heal the open sores faster than you can even imagine.
Well, mikey, I’m gonna try to break this to you gently: the Vietnam War was a secret message from the FSM.
You must not have been paying attention. But I totally got the message, praise the FSM:
“Move to Canada! Marry a nice Canadian girl! Have kids! They’re sane up there, and health care is free!”
And it turned out that the FSM was totally right.
Leda loved a swan.
And Ganymede loved an eagle.
the Vietnam War was a secret message from the FSM.
Dammit. I’m beginning to see a pattern here.
In school, I always got marked down for “not paying attention”.
Then my wife left me and I didn’t notice for two weeks.
Now this…
mikey
Lordy, it’s all lots of Loady, LOL!
Silliness aside, please let me express my heartfelt admiration for the brave men and women who were killed, maimed, and/or driven insane by the Vietnam War.
And all the other men and women that served their country honorably in Vietnam, even though their lying government didn’t truly merit their service.
I respect their courage. I don’t pretend to share it, not even for one second.
When I visited the Vietnam memorial in Washington, I couldn’t help but stand and shed tears in their honor.
Nevertheless, I’m still proud that I stood up against the war. It took a different kind of courage.
pedestrian said,
January 14, 2008 at 19:55
I know, it’s funny how nobody loved anybody until the Bible came along
Hey, Ped, we ain’t doing such a good job WITH a Bible around…I can’t even begin to imagine what it would be like without one.
Yep. I feel the same way too. I call myself a “naturalistic pantheist“.
And Ganymede loved an eagle.
And I loves me some barbecue, you betcha!
Did you say “pant heist”, Jennifer?
Does that mean you’re going to steal Jonah’s pants?
Oops, not Jennifer: Blue Buddha!
People will do what they do regardless of religious doctrine. It’s nice to have the gospels around to help the gullible socialize properly, but it brings along some baggage that allows Fred Phelps some traction.
Kindness based on superstition is pretty easy to deal with, but cruelty based on superstition is absolutely disgusting.
Hey Jonah. I’ve just gotta tell you, I really appreciated your new book, Liberal Fascism. I can’t recall when anyone made that argument in such detail, or with such care. Indeed, that is central to my point. Ooooppps. I’m SO sorry. I got cheetos dust all over your pants. Here, tell ya what, go ahead and give ’em to me and I’ll clean ’em right up and bring ’em right back, ok?”
Heee heee…
Pant Heist!!
mikey
cruelty based on superstition is absolutely disgusting.
“Those who would make you believe absurdities, would make you commit atrocities.”
-Voltaire
Ew. Why would I want to do a thing like that?
You read that wrong: it’s pant theist, as in I worship pants (but not Doughy’s). =P
Did someone say “panty heist”?
Oh. Jonah. Ew.
So, if the separation of church and state is just some kind of fallacious, liberally imposed, politically correct hooey, then that means that we do have a Christian government.
So, wouldn’t people who were interested in consistency then say that such a government should be run according to the words of Jesus? And that would mean a government run by poor, humble men who are more interested in peace and taking care of the poor?
Instead, we have a government run by people who are obsessed with making a fortune and bombing innocent people based on a lie and turning yet another generation of its young men into terrorists and murderers.
I wouldn’t have such a problem with Christianity if Christians practiced something that remotely resembled the religion Jesus mentioned.
The fact is, liberalism is a totalitarian idealology that seeks to discredit, blackmail or otherwise malign all those who disagree with its globalist, anti-Nationalist, secular agenda. The use of speech codes on college campuses immediately comes to mind when I think of the fascism of the left, at leftwing colleges all across this Great Nation Conservative Students and Professors are constantly ridiculed and maligned by their liberal professors and peers. The left seeks to redress past injustices by punishing the sons for the sins of their fathers by the use of affirmative action in the universites and the workplace. The fascist left seeks to silence the free speech rights of Christians and Jews by removing all aspects of God from the public square and by punishing Pastors and Rabbis who dare speak out against leftwing candidates and their atheistic public policies, by removing the tax exempt status of Churches and Synagogues whose Rulers try and inform the faithful of pubilc policy that will effect them and their rights. Yes my friends, Jonah is right modern day liberalism is a totalitarian and fascist idealology.
Please stop. You are embarrassing me and all other good decent Christians who are disgusted by so much that is said in Jesus’ name.
Making Christians look intolerant and stupid is the work of Satan.
Shorter BB/Saul/Kevin/Gary:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/kilbane421/whaaambulance.jpg
Whenever I’m in the men’s room pondering my course of action, I have found that the most useful question to ask myself is What Would Jesus Pay For A Blowjob?
Maybe it was a good thing that bastard never lived to see the French Revolution.
Robespierre: absurdist.
The fascist left seeks to silence the free speech rights of Christians and Jews by removing all aspects of God from the public square
They have to work harder
So, wouldn’t people who were interested in consistency then say that such a government should be run according to the words of Jesus? And that would mean a government run by poor, humble men who are more interested in peace and taking care of the poor?
There really is no such thing as a Christian style of government. Jesus taught at a time of political disillusionment. Earlier Judaism had been defined by the divinely-inspired theocratic state that you see outlined in the Torah. During the Babylonian captivity, new narratives were developed that grappled with how to maintain a Jewish identity without a Jewish state. The Hasmonean monarchy looked like a miraculous restoration, but quickly collapsed into corruption and civil war. A mass popular movement to eliminate the monarchy and create something like a theocratic republic only brought the Romans in.
All of the “Kingdom of Heaven” and related stuff is just a way of trying to swallow the cold hard bitch of a fact that other people are going to rule you and God isn’t going to do a thing to prevent it. From the Jews it easily spread to other hopelessly oppressed groups – women, slaves, the youngest sons of the rich and powerful. People without power. As a dominant religion with control of the state, Christianity makes no fucking sense and never will.
Well Alex beat me to the point on this here.
Ok, this is a common misconception I just have to address.
First, Jesus makes a hyperbolic point that can be summed up as “it is impossible for the rich to enter heaven.” Now it seems a lot of people nowadays (or at least liberals) stop right there and don’t read any more. (oh, and don’t forget right before then Jesus brings up a lot of the ten commandments, you have to do those too). But what follows Jesus’ statement?
Now… if Jesus just meant, “the rich are damned” why then would the disciples have any question about “who can be saved”? (isn’t the answer: the poor?)
Jesus’ reply to them is:
None of this seems to fit in the paradigm of “the rich are damned”. For this to make any sense, one has to realize that in ancient times, being “rich” was considered a blessing among the Jews (look through their texts, the patriarchs, Job, David, Solomon, all favored by God with riches). Thus, Jesus’ statement here is shocking to them because He just said that even someone favored by God can’t get into Heaven. Thus the need and purpose for His sacrifice. The whole point of this section is not that the rich are damned, it’s that we are all damned without His help.
Now if you want to bring up other verses that command to “take care of the poor” (hint: there are QUITE a few in that nasty old testament that some leftists don’t like to look in), there are plenty, but please stop using this lesson out of context.
Well, according to the theology I observed in Raiders of the Lost Ark, God does not intervene to save His chosen people from the Nazi Holocaust, but He does get really pissed off when they mess with His antiques, in which case He chooses to get involved and melt the bad guys with magic angel fire.
Please, the real lesson is that God is a Star Wars fan and he isn’t going to let any harm come to Han Solo.
Would it take me a really long time to actually find a leftist who claims that the Old Testament doesn’t contain:
?
Holy crap, then we’re in real trouble due to Episode I.
“Would it take me a really long time to actually find a leftist who claims that the Old Testament doesn’t contain:
… verses that command to “take care of the poor” …
?”
Define “take care of.” Pretty much depended on which tribe you were from, and whether saving you from starvation by killing your ass comes under the “taking care of” rubric; or giving you food, clothing and shelter (plus the occasional not quite fatal beating) in exchange for an honest day’s work, every day for the rest of your life. Broaden your context, there’s lotsa good verses.
Leviticus 19:18: Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:34: But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
That second verse could be dangerously construed to apply to Mexicans.
Ok. Thank you. For something I never asked for.
Now, kindly help me find a leftist who is denying that such exists in the Old Testament. This is what “nobody” is implying in his post of 22:19. And that is what I asked for in my post of 2:30.
Amen.
Well, Hossier, I’d volunteer, but that’d be lying on my part. I leave the lies to the right-wingers.
I confess, I haven’t accepted Jesus as my personal saviour. As a result of a poor phone connection, I misheard the message, and instead accepted Jesus as my personal organiser. On the bright side, I haven’t missed a single appointment with my parole officer since then.
Flying Rodent reckons that he accepted Jesus as his own personal trainer, and his abs have never been buffer. I am not entirely sure why he would want to use his abs for polishing furniture, but there’s no accounting for Scotsmen.
Don’t worry about the young man who was told in the previous paragraph that he would have to abandon his possessions and follow Jesus, and don’t worry about the meek inheriting the earth, and don’t worry about the moneychangers in the Temple. Yeah, that Jesus was just peachy with materialism–so buy my new book, Your Best Life Now! Only $21.99 at participating retailers nationwide.
Thanks for playing, nobody. I’ve read the Bible just as thoroughly as you, and I’ve covered these talking points before.
grrrr, st00pud preview!
Or maybe it really is time for me to get my ol’ Mark I Eyeballs in for overhaul.
Smut Clyde, I recommend accepting him as your personal masseur: it guarantees a happy ending.
I’ve only read one comment on this thread, and I’m so glad it was tigrismis.
Smut, you should give him a try as your personal chef. A lot of carbs and seafood, but does that man know how to stretch a budget!
Just remember, he may be very charming but don’t get too attached. Man, woman, young or old, he will woo you day and night until you give him your heart. He even keeps a book, the little slut. He claims he only knows 144,000 in the “biblical” sense, but millions upon millions of people say they’ve been intimate with him, so who the hell knows?
oops, sorry about missing the closing tag
Proverbs 26:11
It doesn’t really have anything to do with this discussion, it’s just one of my favorites.
http://bible.cc/matthew/6-5.htm
Thank you stryx, I’ll send along my personal favourite Bible quotation, too.
If only the ‘thumpers would take Jesus’ words about public prayer literally.
Sigh.
Smut Clyde said,
January 14, 2008 at 23:01
I confess, I haven’t accepted Jesus as my personal saviour.
I’d settle for him being my PDA, at this point.
Totally agree with you there WPE.
I think my fave is…. Matthew 10:16. Religion is no excuse for intellectual laziness.
In the light of that business with the talents, perhaps I should accept Jesus as my personal banker.
My current Biblical Old Testament favorite:
tigrismus said,
January 14, 2008 at 23:05
Smut Clyde, I recommend accepting him as your personal masseur: it guarantees a happy ending.
I don’t know. He is always giving the damn oil to the poor to annoint their feet. It’s getting kinda gamy.
In the light of that business with the talents, perhaps I should accept Jesus as my personal banker.
Personally, I chose Moses.
Jesus saves, but Moses invests.
But it’s not hard or uncommon to find leftists nowadays ridiculing rightists for looking to the OT on some topics, which would logically mean that everything in the OT is off limits from their POV
I think folks ridicule Christians who defer to OT teaching only when it suits their purposes and forget their normal claim that the NT supersedes it.
Give me a minute or two, and I bet I can rationalize away the parable of the talents as well as you have rationalized away any of the things you’ve rationalized away so efficiently.
My ears are burning.
My favorite: Matt 7:1-5, but Matt 7:2 especially.
Cliff notes version: Don’t be a hypocrite because karma’s a bitch.
I will happily ridicule anyone who intends to justify any decisionmaking in public life not upon rationally justifiable causes but their rote belief in tribal manuscripts.
If something in the Bible or in some fantasy novel inspired you to rationally support some policy, great.
If you want other people to do something societally irrational so that you’ll feel good that your invisible sky dude was obeyed, well, f*** off.
By the way, I want to hear The Parable of Jonah and No Talents again. It never gets old and I learn something new with each re-telling.
Jonah and the Fail?
Fair enough.
Forgive me but I’m wondering at what point I’ve “rationalized away” anything. I said we’re commanded to take care of the poor (we certainly should). I just argued that I don’t see anything that says the rich are extra damned more than the rest of us.
Tig,
Actually, there’s a school of Christianity that allows the use of OT tracts to override some New Testament writings.
Allow me to introduce The Dispensationalists!
Could be, but you might be thinking of the one where Jonah swallows the whale.
Nobody,
What part of the Sermon On The Mount was unclear to you that you think the rich are not damned? I’ll use one of the easier translations to make it clearer:
It don’t get much clearer than that. Jesus tells us, either keep the Word or be damned. Period.
Basically, He says, you’re either with Us or you’re with the Monetarists…
If you lieberals think Jesus isn’t for people getting rich and being successful than why don’t you explain why the USA is the richest country ever with some of the biggest churches with movies and big sound systems and holy men who have their own godly colleges and who retroactively predict why the weather happened in certain places?
See, this is another reason why I’ve decided long ago to be a militant atheist. If the Bible is the word of god, but nobody can even figure out what it says, then either god must be an idiot or drunk.
And having a drunken idiot in charge? That would really suck…
Um. Oh, yeah….
mikey
Um… ‘scuse me, nice Sadly, No proprietors? Could we get a nice clean new thread please?
mikey: My uncle used to have a bumper sticker that said
“Militant Agnostic: I Don’t Know, and You Don’t, Either”
El Cid said,
January 15, 2008 at 0:06
If you lieberals think Jesus isn’t for people getting rich and being successful than why don’t you explain why the USA is the richest country ever with some of the biggest churches with movies and big sound systems and holy men who have their own godly colleges and who retroactively predict why the weather happened in certain places?
Could it be………..ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh, I don’t know….SATANNNNNNNNNNNNNN?!?!?!?
It can’t be Satan because he leaves that smell of sulfur and brimstone and I did not smell that while I was doing my holy research. Well not often just sometimes in the back offices.
Rounding out my entire knowledge of biblical verse:
‘Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.’
Proverbs 31:1-9
(Which King Lemuel learned from his mom, the profit. Or oracle, whatever.)
What part of what I said makes you think that I believe they are not?
There’s a panty heist at the angry party?
Sign me up!
GRRR
STOMP
STOMP
STOMP
(yoink)
… profit?
What the hell is going on around here? What is this, Firedoglake?
300+ comments? I smell pie…
Then ridicule away at New Utopia: a micronation founded on the principles of Rand & Heinlien novels.
Seriously. New thread please. Jonah’s old and it’s turning into Sunday School n here, and I need my SN fix.
Oh and I forgot:
‘Blessed are the cheese makers.’
That’s a good one
What is this, Firedoglake?
Actually, in this case, I suspect badly hung over, grossly non-productive Sadlys…
mikey
Did I miss something last night?
Wait… Wisconsin is the most blessed place on earth?
No! Dogma lied to me! How can I ever trust Kevin Smith again?
Oh and I forgot:
‘Blessed are the cheese makers.’
for they shall be called sons of Gouda?
Well, it’s obviously meant to apply to all manufacturers of dairy products….
nobody said,
January 15, 2008 at 0:16
I just argued that I don’t see anything that says the rich are extra damned more than the rest of us.
Yea, hi, they are. You’ll have to take it on faith since you seem determined to be contrarian to His teachings.
tigrismus said,
January 15, 2008 at 0:27
Oh and I forgot:
‘Blessed are the cheese makers.’
for they shall be called sons of Gouda?
Take. Edam. This is my body…
Christianity is stupid.
Give up.
I couldn’t handle being a militant atheist. Running around with an AK-47 has its appeal, but the idea of spending every weekend at the training camp was what put me off.
I just argued that I don’t see anything that says the rich are extra damned more than the rest of us.
Yea, hi, they are. You’ll have to take it on faith since you seem determined to be contrarian to His teachings.
We’ve now left Sunday School and stumbled into the “Life of Brian.”
“And cwucify him well, Bigus!”
Emmental! Emmental! White Farm House Double Worcester Sancerre Brie?
Who wants to be an atheist when there’s 76 virgins to be bagged? And have you seen the skimpy clothes angels wear up there?
John Sladek reckoned that Christ’s last words were actually an endorsement of naturopathy:
Ailing! Ailing! Lemme see botany!
Angry Vagina?
Who’s stepping on my turf? I’m SCARY Vagina, the original one.
Actually, someone from that movie posts here.
Well, it could be more nutritional than lascivious.
Paradise means martyrs get 72 raisins? OUCH.
None of this makes any sense, and reads a lot like the writings of schizophrenics. (See also Ezekiel and Revelations) Interesting that the NT also relates that Jesus’ own family suspected that he might have been nuckin’ futz.
including white raisins (considered to be delicacies at the time that the Qur’an was written), not virgin maidens.[70][71]
let’s take a mixed bag and assume they meant white maidens. Cracker cuties courtin complete cooters.
Who wants to go to heaven just to snack on dried grapes when I ken snack on fis……nevermind.
2 Scoops!!
I think Ignatius J. Reilly said it best when he prophesied, grandly, “Jesus will come to the fore, skins or not”, even though he was only dreaming it.
As a dog goes back to its vomit, so a fool repeats his stupidity.
That is actually very germane to the original subject of this post.
Angry but in no way scary Vagina said
If we get you, me, and plain old Angry Vagina together, and maybe a few others…I dunno, maybe Bitchy Vagina and Stupid Vagina (Horny Vagina is right out – no one can ever get shit done with her around and besides, no one likes Paris Hilton) we could do a kind of a Spice Girls thing.
I call dibs on being anyone besides Posh.
But how funny is a group of guys playing women that are wearing fake beards in order to appear male to attend a stoning?
Always struck me as a brilliant circular acting convention.
let’s take a mixed bag and assume they meant white maidens.
If we get you, me, and plain old Angry Vagina together, and maybe a few others…I dunno, maybe Bitchy Vagina and Stupid Vagina
Snow White and the Seven Snatches?
mikey
Yeah, but who will be Snow White?
I was thinking just “Vagina Girls”, because in one of the funniest myths Campbell recorded this is what existed in the world before there were women. There were these creatures that were in reality, just vaginas, and they lived in a hut with vaginas hanging on the walls and so on…and they were the Vagina Girls. The story is all about how a young hero “domesticated” the vagina.
I tried that.
Didn’t work.
Anyone have a link to give feedback on jon swift’s post being removed from google? it wasnt clear to me which google forum was the appropriate place to voice my (continued) disgust with them…
tyvm
Jonah is going to be on Thom Hartmann tomorrow.
Wait… Wisconsin is the most blessed place on earth?
Well… it was last Saturday. At least the region around Green Bay, Lambeau Field; north, south, east and somewhat west of there….
Isn’t it an amazing fact that poor people vote against their own best interests?
Rich cunning rightwingers must laugh every time they see poor people vote Republican.
Just appeal to patriotism, racism, religion, and the desire for security, and the poor people will vote against their own best interests.
The Democrats should easily grab that section of the market. What would their message be? What’s good for you is good for business? True enough.
including white raisins (considered to be delicacies at the time that the Qur’an was written), not virgin maidens.[70][71]
oh god, that has to be a COMPLETE let down.
“I blew myself up up for 72 Raisins?!?!? “
Jo’berg made it to Keith Olbermann tonight. In tonight’s Worst Person in the World, Jobeak made it to Runner Up for neither being aware or willing to say why Mussolini is associated with the word “fascism”. Oh, well, keep trying, Goldbutt — someday maybe you’ll make it!
Nights in white raisins,
Never reaching the end.
For this I waged jihad,
now I need Depends.
Perhaps we could divert the entire worldwide jihadist movement with a certain private contractor.
Tigrismus is on notice.
Also, I’m gonna make sweet love to those raisins when my shit blows up.
Oooo baby. Oooo yeah. You know how daddy likes it!
“I blew myself up up for 72 Raisins?!?!? “
They were, indeed, your raisin d’être…*
* Joke stolen shamelessly from World O’Crap.
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