Dec
18
18
Simply Goddamn Embarrassing
Oh Jonah… Jonah, no you didn’t… you didn’t just say th…
Man, those wacky liberals, ironically calling the Klan “American fascists!” Wherever do they get those zany ideas???
Erm…
Uh…
Oop. Hee.
Jonah, you really might want to start Googling around a bit before you claim that the KKK has been dubbed ‘ironically’ fascist by the Left. This stuff isn’t very hard to find.
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:03
When Jonah says ‘ironically’, he means something different than the rest of us. As in ‘accurately’.
jim said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:05
How did he get this piece of crap printed?
Woo.
Paddy Mac said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:05
Jonah is out to prove that liberals are fascists. Therefore, right-wingers CANNOT be fascists. I don’t understand what’s so hard about this. He started with a conclusion, spent a few minutes over several years trying to find facts to fit it, had a torrent of evidence contradict his preselected conclusions, and so he simply took to lying. The only difference between this and his previous wingnuttery is the hard cover and high cover price.
D.N. Nation said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:08
1) Misuse of “irony.”
2) Misuse of facts.
3) Just…stop him now.
Arky - Cthulhusexual said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:08
In GoldWhirled, saying your opponent called the KKK fascist makes your opponent look bad.
Over here in Realityville things are a mite different.
Tara the anti-social social worker said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:09
Shamelessly moved from the other thread, in an attempt to keep Bradrocket from injuring himself:
Bradrocket, despair not. The definitive takedown of Goldberg’s drivel was written 5 years ago, around the time Jonah was supposed to have his opus finished:
“Make comparisons to Hitler. This is a surprisingly flexible technique because Hitler was a busy guy. He did everything from eating to painting landscapes to attacking the world. So if someone argues that napping is good for you, point out that Hitler liked napping too.”
-Scott Adams, “Dilbert and the Way of the Weasel,” pg. 236. The chapter is called “Weasel Debating Techniques,” and Jonah seems to have mistaken it for a how-to manual.
MzNicky said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:12
I think Doughy thinks it’s “ironic” is because it’s really the liberals who are fascists, see?, and then there they are calling someone else fascists, when really they’re the ones who are the fascists.
mikey said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:13
Okay, hang on here a minute.
The fact that the KKK didn’t like Mussolini proves:
1.) The KKK were not fascists.
2.) Liberals ARE fascists.
Of course, it could just be that the good ol’boys in the sheets didn’t much like Eye Talians, but hey, that’s a real reach. Pantload’s conclusion makes MUCH more sense….
mikey
John O said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:13
Jonah makes me sad I wasn’t the son of a bitch, so I could make big money, too.
Will this go down as the stupidest, most intellectually-challenged, Wingut welfare book of comedy genius of all-time?
My God, what a lunatic. He has his fascists very, very confused.
Seldom has so much time and effort been spent for so little. And fuck you, Bush dead-enders, I don’t HAVE to read it. Nor will I, unless I decide to do a S,N! evisceration of it, which is unlikely only because of my goddamn job.
Smarter, funnier people will do my job for me.
Simba B said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:14
I’m a bit ambivalent about Scott Adams, because while Dilbert is (usually) good, and some of his books are too, he seems to be a bit of a techolibertarian asshole.
If I recall, he’s got the whole engineering-creationism mix going on. I think P.Z. Meyers called him out for defending wrongness a while back.
andrew levine said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:15
Yes, and let’s not forget that the loudest criticisms of Fascism in the mid-30s in the U.S. and U.K. were Leftists who were not pleased with Hitler’s mass arrest of Communists following the Reichstag fire, or with Franco’s supporters gunning down Spanish Socialists (which began the Civil War), or Mussolini’s abolishment of independent labor unions.
Of course if Goldberg had actually spent a few hours out of the five years or however long this book took to write reading old left-wing newspapers from the time, it would have had the incovenient side effect of putting the lie to his argument.
Mr. Sparkle said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:16
I fear for what will happen to Bradrocket’s brain
ifwhen he manages to finish the book.Take a breather man. Look, Chris Dodd scored a minor victory in his filibuster today! Be happy! Wait 24 hours before trying to digest another chapter of this book, please!
I can only imagine the gnawing pain you’re getting from this reading of Liberal Fascism. Lord knows I’ve had but a sample of it when I decided to try and decipher T3h Stoopid in George Will and Bill Kristol columns (and they are a couple of supposed smart-guys in the conservative movement).
david said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:20
Great work. Keep it up. I just started reading you because of this subject (Yglesias linked to you). Great stuff man. Jonah’s book is meeting down to my expectations.
John O said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:20
Goldberg is a hack.
A wingnut-welfare hack. The man couldn’t get a job at a high school monthly if it weren’t for his connections.
Sort of like George Bush, who would be fighting to get a job running a gas station were it not for his brand name.
And the Dems just give them whatever they want, perpetuating their status as weak limp-wristed pussies. It’s embarrassing, except for one thing: Nobody will hassle me about my third party votes anymore, and I didn’t vote for Nader. I only do it when it doesn’t matter.
We are so fucked.
david said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:21
Also, it occurs to me that the Klan might have hated Mussolini at the time. Seriously, I mean, he’s a Catholic WOP. Bad in the KKK’s book.
Ace 0' Splakes said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:23
“Ernest Hemingway was skeptical of Mussolini almost from the start.”
The start of what ?
Gawd, it sounds like an 8th grader’s social studies paper.
John O said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:23
Liberals have done an admittedly and obviously complicit job on eviscerating the Constitution.
But they’re never as stupid as Jonah, by his mere chapter titles is.
I mean, it’s like parody without the comedy, or faux-realism.
The Hon. Dr. St. Rev. Bradley S. Rocket, Esq, PhD, MD said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:23
Well yeah they hated Mussolini. But that doesn’t make them any less of fascists, just as Trotsky’s dislike for Stalin makes him any less of a communist.
OTB said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:26
You know, I’m beginning to suspect that Jonah Goldberg is not very smart.
plus C said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:31
So if the Spanish socialists were the Republican army, and they fought against the fascists (who, as it seems, are liberals), did he throw in a chapter about conservative communism?
And if Saddam had the Iraqi Republican Guard…
Holy shit! Did Jonah do 9/11?
Trilateral Chairman said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:31
David:
This is just a guess, but I think the Klan probably did hate Mussolini at the time (which proves nothing, of course–do all fascists have to agree with each other?) Back in the day, they hated the Italians, the Irish, probably the Spanish, the Greeks, etc. Over time, they’ve broadened their list of ‘acceptable’ peoples, to the point where Italians and Irish are now considered at least passable. (This is simply a matter of numbers; if you exclude anyone with any trace of Irish or Italian heritage, you’ll have no one left.)
For Jonah, I have only one question: How did the KKK feel about Hitler?
El Cid said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:36
It’s kind of cool, you see.
Mussolini was a fascist. The Ku Klux Klan didn’t like Mussolini, because he was foreign and Italian and the KKK didn’t like immigrants. But the KKK was not really fascist since only liberals called them “fascist” ironically.
So, fascists can’t be people who don’t like Mussolini because they don’t like immigrants.
Ace 0' Splakes said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:37
Jonah’s lil’ KKK dig is historically accurate, in that the KKK was intensely ant-Cathollic and anti-southern European (too close to africa).
The Hon. Dr. St. Rev. Bradley S. Rocket, Esq, PhD, MD said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:40
Jonah’s lil’ KKK dig is historically accurate, in that the KKK was intensely ant-Cathollic and anti-southern European (too close to africa).
Yeah, but dude. He’s taking historically accurate tidbits and yanking them way the eff out of their context in order to score cheap political points. “OMG, LIBERAL FASCISTS, EVEN TEH KLAN H4T3D MUSSOLINI, YOU CAN’T CALL THEM FASCISTS LOLOLOLOLOL!!!1!”
RandomObserver said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:41
Wow, this book seems historically bad. Maybe it’s actually clever satire making fun of conservatives and we’re too dumb to get it?
So the KKK can’t be fascists because - they disliked immigrants? The hell?
Ace 0' Splakes said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:43
– I know Brad –
Lesley said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:43
How did he ever get this shit published by a publisher that isn’t Mom-with-a-Xerox-Machine?
Marco said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:44
I think Mr. Stay-Puff thinks that beginning sentences with “Interestingly” and dropping in “ironically” here and there equals a big, fat, brainy-ass scholarly tome.
Frederick said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:45
Has Jonah ever used the phrase, “islamofascism?”
Flying Fox said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:48
Conservatives like this expression, the “hard left.” does it actually mean anything or is it one of their dog whistles?
spare said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:49
Wait, I think I get it! See, the real “American fascists” are TEH LIBERALS, so, it is, like, ironic, for them to give that title to the KKK, since they don’t also say “I’m rubber, you’re glue”. Or something.
tb said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:50
Ironically because “liberals” are so obviously the real fascists around here, I guess. The KKK are merely harmless “nativists”, much like the Navajo with their rain dances and such.
HumboldtBlue said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:55
It’s kind of funny that the Georgia dumbass in the bottom picture is saluting with the wrong hand. He’s using his left hand, that mean he’s probably gay.
Kathleen said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:57
will the application of Cheetos make Brad’s task easier or harder?
discuss.
Jon H said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:57
This is what happens when you write a book researched by asking NRO readers to do the work for you.
HTML Mencken said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:58
The KKK are merely harmless “nativists”, much like the Navajo with their rain dances and such.
Which explains the Swastikas!!!
/pantload
HumboldtBlue said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:58
“Conservatives like this expression, the “hard left.” does it actually mean anything or is it one of their dog whistles?”
I asked myself the same question. Who’s the “soft” left? Hamsher? Dodd? Digby? TBogg?
Where does one draw the line between the hard and soft left? (and we all know that if you’re a Republican male of a certain age, you are really, really drawn to the hard left, for reasons you can’t even discuss with your wife, or preacher … unless that preacher happens to be Haggard).
But really, is ignorance this … this open and admitted yet another sign of our failing schools?
Ed Marshall said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:02
I’d never heard that the KKK had a problem with Mussolini. It makes sense on it’s face, but you had institutions like the American Legion that explicitly identified with the blackshirts and loudly proclaimed their willingness to do the same job if the left got out of hand. I would have imagined the intersection there would have came out on the fascist side vs. the anti-papistry but I’ve been fooled before.
Jon H said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:04
“Ironically because “liberals” are so obviously the real fascists around here, I guess. The KKK are merely harmless “nativists”, much like the Navajo with their rain dances and such.”
Does Jonah mention the WW2 heroics of the Racist Cracker Code Talkers?
(crackling radio) “We-ull golllleee, we got a division of tanks a-comin toward you Skeeter, ya heah?”
(Nazi HQ) “Mein Fuhrer! Ve cannot understand vot ze are sayink!”
Ed Marshall said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:05
Conservatives like this expression, the “hard left.” does it actually mean anything or is it one of their dog whistles?
It meant a great deal in the 1930’s. Assuming he’s using it correctly (which is a bad bet), it means a commitment to international socialism.
Marco said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:06
I am the soft left. I workout like a good gay lib…fascist, but I still have washcloth abs.
Must be teh desire to oppress brave conservative thought.
The Hon. Dr. St. Rev. Bradley S. Rocket, Esq, PhD, MD said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:06
It’s amazing to me how few footnotes he puts in most of this crap. I’ve read five pages of the chapter where he calls hippies “the third great fascist movement of the twentieth century” and I’ve seen one goddamn footnote in the whole chapter.
Jon H said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:08
“and I’ve seen one goddamn footnote in the whole chapter.”
Does it point you at something he wrote himself?
KiwiHopeful said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:08
“Jonah Goldberg, ironically called ‘douche bag’ by American liberals”
Wait, that’s not irony either.
Ed Marshall said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:10
international socialism to be achieved by revolutionary means independent of incremental politics also.
julia said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:19
I guess it would be rude to point out that the Republicans of the day (including, prominently, one Prescott Bush) played pattycake with the fascists in Europe because they thought the fascists in Europe were going in a promising direction in opposing labor unions, hein?
tb said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:20
Give him one of those disgusting Cheeto and red Mountain Dew shakes. I can’t see how it could make him feel any worse. You see, while he’s reading the book he’ll be basically impervious to any additional pain inflicted upon him, kind of like firing a .22 at a man caught in a thermonuclear blast. A thermonuclear blast of stupid.
caliph garrett said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:22
Is that highlighter pen in the excerpted passage above, or a palimpsest of Cheeto dust from another NRO manuscript?
dBa said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:22
If he thinks hippies were fascists, then history is getting really fucked up.
But seriously, it would seem that Jonah’s idea of a fascist is anyone who has more sex than he does.
connection said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:22
was that in chapter 4: “Like Liberals, I Heard Some People Didn’t Like Fascists”?
And what did non-liberals call the ‘nativist Ku Klux Klan’ back then? American Heroes? The Wink-wink-nudge-nudge Club? Where Uncle Chet goes to ‘blow off some steam’? The Finally-Something-to-use-my-Rope-For-Other-Than-Auto-Erotic-Asphyxiation Club?
jimmiraybob said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:23
Does Jonah give any insight into the arc of animated fascism, from tweety bird and poody tat to itchy and scratchy? Is there a Soros tie in?
The Hon. Dr. St. Rev. Bradley S. Rocket, Esq, PhD, MD said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:25
dBa- funny you mention that because one of his evidences that Mussolini was a liberal was that HE LIKED SEX… JUST LIKE LIBERALS DO!!!! I shit you not.
dBa said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:28
Ha, I knew that non-fucker had ulterior motives.
Jon H said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:29
This is quite possibly the dumbest book since ‘The Late Great Planet Earth’
El Cid said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:29
This seems like another “fascist” movement which would have been vastly preferable to suffer under than one of the actual fascist movements. I mean, it might seem like torture to some people to listen to a long rock album while stoned or on shrooms or dropping acid, but probably less so than, say, partial death drowning (”waterboarding”).
Strange thing is, given the genetic Republican instincts to rush toward fascists in order to admire and support them, the hippies received very little Republican appreciation.
And out of all the fascist movements Reagan enjoyed allowing his Neo-Khan / New Right / Talibangelical nutbags to fund and use to play war, not one of them was led by hippies. I don’t think.
Okay, Reagan’s Afghan terrorist “freedom fighter” gangster warriors grew long hair and beards and dressed in robes and dealt in a lot of opium, but I don’t recall a lot of people getting a “hippie” vibe from Gulbuddin Hekmatyar.
ATinNM said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:30
and the nationalization of the means of production under the dictatorship of the proletariat as established and run by the Soviet Communist party in strict adherence to the principles of Marxist-Leninism - avoiding the errors of Right Wing Revisionism and struggling against Infantile Leftism.
(I can’t believe I remember that shit)
Poll time: how many people who buy this trite POS are going to read it and how many of those have read Hemingway?
My guess: 3
So Jonah could have wrote, “Hemingway danced around the Vatican in a pink tutu when Mussolini ceased power” — with none to say him nay.
Ming with latent Mexican tendencies said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:30
tb said,
“Give him one of those disgusting Cheeto and red Mountain Dew shakes”
They work better as an enema. You shouldn’t put those things in your mouth.
tb said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:30
Good Christ, can this get any more asinine? What the hell page are you on?
Lesley said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:30
I’ve read five pages of the chapter where he calls hippies “the third great fascist movement of the twentieth century” and I’ve seen one goddamn footnote in the whole chapter.
he hasn’t found a way to cite the puffy clouds that drift aimlessly in the vacant sky of his head.
tb said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:31
Or the novelization of ‘Manimal’.
The Hon. Dr. St. Rev. Bradley S. Rocket, Esq, PhD, MD said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:32
tb- i’m on page 174. But I’ve been skipping around a lot. Can you blame me?
ATinNM said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:32
“ceased”?
How about “seized”
(I blame Clinton)
dogrose said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:32
Back in the day, they hated the Italians, the Irish, probably the Spanish, the Greeks, etc.
Don’t forget the Papists! The Klan went totally apeshit when Al Smith ran for president in 1928.
(crackling radio) “We-ull golllleee, we got a division of tanks a-comin toward you Skeeter, ya heah?”
In the 1920s, when the Klan was at the peak of its membership, the state with the most members—by far—was Indiana.
Does Pantload mention the German-American Bund?
Arguably, the zenith of the Bund’s history occurred on President’s Day, February 19, 1939 at Madison Square Garden in New York City. Some 20,000 people attended and heard Kuhn criticize President Franklin Delano Roosevelt by repeatedly referring to the president as “Frank D. Rosenfeld”, calling his New Deal the “Jew Deal”, and espousing his belief in the existence of a Bolshevik-Jewish conspiracy in America.
Dirty fucking hippies.
Ace 0' Splakes said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:33
“Chariots of the Loaf”
?
Marco said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:34
I am as excited to read Jonah’s book as I was when I discovered a Caroline & the City slash fiction site.
cleter said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:35
The KKK didn’t like Mussolini because, amongst their other charms, they were virulently anti-papist. Where’s the Vatican? That’s right, Rome! Right down the street from Mussolini’s pad! Mussolini was fascist, which was ok, but he was also Catholic, which was kind of a deal-breaker.
ahem said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:38
Thomas Laqueur’s recent lecture on the rise of fascism is worth a listen, because he actually discusses its radical break with the laissez-faire conceptions of left and right that led Europe into the slaughter of the Great War. And he’s careful to note the promotion of eugenics on the left, which, I’m sure, becomes ‘libruls here, entitled ‘The Failure of Politics Between The Wars’.)
But he’s a Berkeley history professor, so he’s obviously a fascist.
Ace 0' Splakes said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:39
I never thought of the KKK as being fascist — just ugly, stupid ignint racists so lacking in basic book larnin’ to even think in the terms necessary to put together an economic/political architecture.
Thers said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:40
Ernest Hemingway shot himself because he feared he would someday be cited in this book.
Nylund said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:41
I am so jealous I don’t have a copy (but there is no way I’ll ever pay for one). It sounds like pure comedy gold.
I can’t wait until you get to Liberal Racism chapter. That should be fun.
All those damn hippies calling for an end to segregation! How racist of them. Truly, it is those that want to purge America of all the hispanics that are truly the ones fighting racism in the country. This is why so many minorities fill the ranks of the GOP.
ahem said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:41
damn angle brackets. let’s try that again.
Thomas Laqueur’s recent lecture on the rise of fascism is worth a listen, because he actually discusses its radical break with the laissez-faire conceptions of left and right that led Europe into the slaughter of the Great War. And he’s careful to note the promotion of eugenics on the left, which, I’m sure, becomes ‘libruls <3 genocide!’ in Opus Magnum Pantloadus.
(The lecture’s linked here, entitled ‘The Failure of Politics Between The Wars’.)
But he’s a Berkeley history professor, so he’s obviously a fascist.
Lesley said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:44
I didn’t realize that attending public school, voting for the green party candidate, eating organic fruits and vegetables, rejecting factory farm meat and eggs, rescuing abused animals and petting my neighbours’ dogs and cats would turn me into a Nazi. Sadly, it’s too late for me to change my sordid ways and become Jonah’s ideal person: a bloated momma’s boy who writes idiotic books while eating cheesies.
Pinko Punko said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:44
Hmm, reactionary xenophobic Christian hyper-nationalists. Nothing similar at all. Jesus H. Chundermuffin.
Ed Marshall said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:45
So Jonah could have wrote, “Hemingway danced around the Vatican in a pink tutu when Mussolini ceased power” — with none to say him nay.
That’s something that hadn’t occured to me. Why did he pick Hemingway? He didn’t pick that out of a hat, I’m not buying the thing but does Jonah consider Franco a fascist?
Nylund said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:46
Are you up to the chapter on FDR’s fascist new deal? I always thought it was wrong of FDR to create new jobs when the free market had obviously decided that it was in the country’s best interest to have so many people unemployed.
Obviously, those people CHOSE not to work and that evil dictator FDR was practically forcing them at gunpoint to work for the state.
Ed Marshall said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:46
n/m he didn’t slander Hemingway.
ATinNM said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:47
Re: hippies[being] “the third great fascist movement of the twentieth century”
H’mmmm.
I wasn’t aware, but I’m not a scholar of Jonah Goldberg’s caliber, that the first two fascist movements of the 20th century had a tendency to ingest LSD, say, “Wow, man,” and fall over. A lot.
And what is it about Wing-Nuts and the Hippie Movement? It lasted - what? 2 years? 3 at the most. Yet, according to op.cite. & et.al. they Ruled the World With a Grip of Steel™.
themann1086 said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:49
ldfksjliblkjnfmvfli
Robert Paxton’s The Anatomy of Fascism [Bradrocket, please read it. It'll make the pain stop], in the Conclusion chapter, discusses how the KKK were the first fascists, or proto-fascists, because they predate the Fascist and Nazi Parties.
Why won’t Daddy Soros send me money?
tb said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:49
I imagine it’s like being in one of those treasure-caves; hard to work through methodically because each jewel is more dazzling than the last. Only it’s not jewels- it’s pure, crystalline, croquet mallet to the forehead stupidity.
dBa said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:52
I think it’s interesting that the he talks about the ‘war on cheezeburgers’ being born of a faux-liberal fascism, and yet completely ignores the ‘war on drugs’ instituted by Nixon as an assault on the Hippy-fascism movement.
Or I just think it’s interesting that someone that intellectually baffling is making a living at it.
Or I’m just jealous.
I’m not sure which.
Nylund said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:53
Since believing in animal rights means one is a fascist, I think this means that Mike Huckabee’s son, who stoned and skinned a stray dog, must be the greatest fascist fighter alive today.
dBa said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:53
Forget that last post o’ mine, I just remembered who his target audience was, forgot it wasn’t us.
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:55
It’s amazing to me how few footnotes he puts in most of this crap. I’ve read five pages of the chapter where he calls hippies “the third great fascist movement of the twentieth century” and I’ve seen one goddamn footnote in the whole chapter.
Why St. Rev. Bradley, don’t you remember when the proletariat Ohio Guardsmen were viciously oppressed by the Dirty Fucking Fascist Hippies at Kent State?
tb said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:55
Speaking of the Huckabees, did you see this horrifying picture of them at C&L?
dBa said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:57
Saw that picture, there’s a LOT of patriotic fabric going on there.
jeff said,
December 18, 2007 at 6:57
Not that anyone cares, but I won’t again be seen in the same conference room or ballroom with Mr. Goldberg. As my grandfather said in 1950s Alabama, refering to racists:: “you just don’t drink with folks like that.” God bless his soul for refusing to deal with fascists in Alabama 50 years ago; I’ll keep it up here in NYC in 2007.
Goldberg knows what scum he is.
I won’t be at the same receptions or parties. (Not to assume that many organizers really care what I think.)
ATinNM said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:03
Ed Marshall — he slanders Hemingway by mentioning him in that context, not mention that book.
Perhaps Jonah has gone all Post-Modern hoping, since books talk to books, if he mentions Hemingway some Hemingway scholar will mention him?
a certain Christmas elf said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:04
You get to the acknowledgments yet, bradrocket?
KiwiHopeful said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:06
hippies are “the third great fascist movement of the twentieth century” because well-known hippie musician Woddie Guthrie ironically had as his slogan “This Machine Kills Fascists”. Irony. Get it?
paul said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:06
Crooked TImber is looking this thing over as well: as I commented there, any bets on when the count of factual errors outnumbers the pages?
lobbey said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:10
dBa- funny you mention that because one of his evidences that Mussolini was a liberal was that HE LIKED SEX… JUST LIKE LIBERALS DO!!!! I shit you not.
please tell me that you are joking!
proof, if proof were needed that Pantload is in serious need of a blowjob.
pedestrian said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:12
And what is it about Wing-Nuts and the Hippie Movement? It lasted - what? 2 years? 3 at the most. Yet, according to op.cite. & et.al. they Ruled the World With a Grip of Steel™.
I think it mostly boils down to a convenient rationalization of their sexual undesirability. As in, if only those chicks realized what pussies those dirty fucking hippies are, they’d be all over me.
Future wingnut revisionists will likely blame the woes of our day on Jim from The Office.
Ezra Pound said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:17
What, no mention of me ??????
Trent Lott said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:19
Robert Byrd is a fat old fascist.
Giant Zionist Hoax said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:20
We don’t believe Jonah Goldberg ever actually existed.
RandomObserver said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:22
The funny thing about “The Culture War” is that it’s entirely one-sided. You have conservatives brandishing tin-foil shields and cardboard tubes, sharing stories about the sweat and tears they poured into this ongoing epic battle, while their “enemy” sits on it’s collective ass watching TV.
It’s like having a stalker, but at the societal level. Truly delusional. And somehow, even though they were the only people actually fighting the war at all they still managed to lose. That takes some doing.
Fats Durston said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:24
he calls hippies “the third great fascist movement of the twentieth century”
Who can forget how the hippies put on those crisp uniforms, and marched in orderly columns through Woodstock, New York, and on to the state legislature where they beat the representatives senseless and took control?
Who can forget those hippy mantras, “all individuals or groups are relative, only to be conceived of in their relation to the State,” “power to the volk,” and “there is neither the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace.”
And remember when they all loaded up their Volkswagen buses, and drove the cowardly French occupiers out of the Rheinland to show the strength of their will?
Or how San Francisco became the center of the Wagner revival that pushed that “rock music” out of the pop charts forever, and ‘67 was the Summer of Hate, and the Death Camps that exterminated all the homosexuals in that former Sodom?
I can hardly imagine forgetting all this that has come to pass.
Fats Durston said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:26
Dammit, Ifthethunder… did me one better while I was a-typin’…
Anne Laurie said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:26
Goldberg is a hack. A wingnut-welfare hack. The man couldn’t get a job at a high school monthly if it weren’t for his connections.
Heck, John, he’s proud of his beneficiary status in the Nepotism Derby that is today’s Wingnuttia! The miserable pantload brags that he got his start in the professional media by “dribbling out” (his words) details from the tapes his repulsive mother Lucianne persuaded Linda Tripp to make, probably not legally, of Monica’s conversations during the Great Republican Panty-Sniffing Festival & Impeachment Carnival. As with his Dear Leader Dubya, “Doughbob Loadpants” has moved into third-level, perfected Nepotism. Lesser sucklings than Jonah might pretend that such nepotism didn’t exist; second-stage parasites may insist that they’re doing an objectively excellent job despite whatever small advantages may have accrued to them by virtue of genetics. But the modern full-force, shameless, Ultimate Boils on the Butt of American ‘Meritocracy’ are happy to wave their total lack of ability, ambition, or energy in the faces of “luzers” like you and I who foolishly believe that brains, talent, or hard work might be valuable attributes. When future anthropologists dig out the long-buried remnants of our civilisation, Jonah’s “writings” will be used as the… lead standard of the lust for the lazy, the banal, the easy, and the prurient that made the Reign of Commander Codpiece a byword and a mockery of all that is decent.
And that’s why, when Jonah uses the word “ironic”, he means “I am about to say something lazy, stupid, and probably wrong, but I could not care less, since I’m getting paid irregardless.”. He has a vague idea (if only because so many people have shouted at him) that the word might have another meaning for those less nepotistically Gifted than the Mighty Pantload, but he’s too lazy to find out for sure, if only because using this one-word shorthand saves him so much typing.
ATinNM said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:28
pedestrian — that suggests an interesting experiment in Applied Political Sexual Psychology. (A new scientific discipline little known ‘cuz I just made it up.)
From the ranks of Wingnuttia compile a statistically valid population. Within this population random samples will be taken, taken to bed, and humped till the cows come home. A random sample of their writing before, after, and during being HTTCCH will be most instructive.
a certain Christmas elf said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:33
Why should wingnuts get all the HTTCCH action?
C’mon, Xmas elves need lovin, too.
(Lex) Skink Tyree (Azagthoth) said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:34
Random–brilliant! I must admit, sometimes I do wonder what people are going on about, before I realize that I’m just WAY too young to get the references. These idiots are trying to appeal to a young generation of prospective wingnuts, this is the primary problem here. They’re going for people younger than me, down to college kids. I think the right is on the definite downswing though.
Now about that flag. Dammit, I am a born Georgian. I was born under that flag and I’ll die under it, no matter where I live, and I have a hankering to kick that young idiot’s ass right now for being so damned stupid. People made such a muck over changing the state flag, and then they just made it ugly. Hell, my family on two sides has been attacked by the Klan, and now that’s all who’re left with my damned state flag, a bunch of stupid rednecks. Which is kind of what I expected in the first damned place, but still.
Now I’m condemned never to live in my home state again. Funny thing, everyone notices how North Georgia doesn’t get winter like it used to, yet global warming isn’t actually happening, eh? Shit, first I heard about global warming was as a kid with old relatives on the Southern side talking about the changes, and they SURE are not a bunch of tree-huggers like myself.
Jon H said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:38
“he hasn’t found a way to cite the puffy clouds that drift aimlessly in the vacant sky of his head.”
In his mind, colorless pink Cheetos drift motionlessly.
Jon H said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:40
dogrose wrote: “In the 1920s, when the Klan was at the peak of its membership, the state with the most members—by far—was Indiana.”
Eh, there’s a linguistic uber goober language that transcends mere geography.
g said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:40
’d never heard that the KKK had a problem with Mussolini.
I think maybe the KKK didn’t like Italians. Because they were Catholic AND they’re swarthy-ish. And spoke that funny language.
Jon H said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:42
Proof that there is no god.
The pantload pinches out this load of shite, with a lifetime ahead of him to surpass it in loathesome factlessness, but Terry Pratchett gets Alzheimers’ at 59.
Smut Clyde said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:42
From the ranks of Wingnuttia compile a statistically valid population. Within this population random samples will be taken, taken to bed, and humped till the cows come home.
We return to the tendentious concept of the Hard Left.
The Cows said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:44
Something’s come up at the office. We’re going to be late home tonight. Don’t wait up.
Jon H said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:46
“I’d never heard that the KKK had a problem with Mussolini.”
Hell, I kinda get the vague impression that Hitler didn’t have much use for him either, apart from providing cannon fodder.
I bet Hitler and his generals scoffed behind Benito’s back, “Yeah, the great conqueror of Ethiopia. WOW! That took some doing, I bet! I’m glad he’s on OUR side! At least we don’t have to worry about the Ethiopians teaming up with the Allies!”
Giant Zionist Hoax said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:52
Jonah is the new Emmanuel Goldstein, but with more yuks per Lil Debbie bar.
Jrod said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:54
There’s truly nothing more pathetic than whining about hippies. At best there are a few thousand of them left, and they spend their days smoking weed and listening to noodley four hour long Phish jams while they stare at a wall, if they’re lucky. Somehow this triggers fight-or-flight reactions in a certain variety of over privileged right-wing asshole.
Yet even the most deranged of these haters never thought to consider the hippies fascists. Jonah is truly a visionary.
Lesley said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:54
Jonah was filmed typing this book.
g said,
December 18, 2007 at 7:57
So let me see if I get this straight:
Environmental conservation = fascist
Fiscal conservation = true American conservative values [even though we know that in Bush World there is no such thing as fiscal conservatism]
Wants to control behavior like smoking, resource consumption, committing racial or gender hate crimes = fascist
Wants to control behavior like having sex, getting abortions, being gay = true American conservative values
Wants to protect rights of free speech, free assembly, civil rights = fascist
Wants to protect property rights, Second Amendment rights, rights of corporations = true American conservative values
Speech and behavior codes to avoid offending minority groups = fascist
Speech and behavior codes to avoid offending Our Troops, The Preznit, Jeeeeeebus and Tammy Wynette = true American conservative values
Publicly funded Education = fascist
Private Education funded with public money = true American conservative values
Employees ability to collectively bargain to achieve binding contracts = fascist
Corporations ability to bargain to achieve binding contracts = true American conservative values
Feminism and womens’ rights in America = fascist
Womens’ rights in Muslim countries = true American conservative values.
Committed monogamous GAY relationships blessed by clergy = fascist
Committed monogamous relationships blessed by clergy = true American conservative values
Have I got it about right?
Porlock Junior said,
December 18, 2007 at 8:01
Footnote!? He has a footnote in the book? Bwahh-ha-hah-haa, there goes half his sales! Next thing you know, there’ll be an equation, and the sales will go negative. Everybody knows that’s what happens when you put University-type snob signifiers in a book.
Seriously, the guy is a real intellectual by the relevant standards. Remember that book a couple of years about the 100 worst people in America? Or most dangerous or whatever. Well, one day I was waiting at the counter in a bookstore and saw a copy there. This was in London, oddly enough. So I picked it up and opened it, for the entertainment of seeing why Jimmy Carter was so evil. Smiling to myself, I flipped to the back to look in the index.
No, nobody expects the wingnut index, and I wasn’t disappointed. So I flipped to the front, to skim through the 100 entries in the Table of Contents for Carter. YES! I mean NO!!! A book without a fucking table of contents.
That is the true intellectual level of wingnut world. How poor 98-pound weakling smart intellectual guy Jonah expects to survive in that world, I just don’t know.
Rightwingsnarkle said,
December 18, 2007 at 8:05
“Speaking of the Huckabees, did you see this horrifying picture of them at C&L?”
Those boys look well-fed. Must’ve been those fine, fine deep-fried pies at the late Linsey’s Barbecue in North Little Rock.
Incontinentia Buttocks said,
December 18, 2007 at 8:05
Hitler actually didn’t like to refer to Nazism as “fascism,” since it suggested that his glorious Volksstaat was somehow derivative of the Italians.
Guess that means Hitler wasn’t a fascist.
EdsAppliance said,
December 18, 2007 at 8:05
Those white guys just don’t get the whole high-five dynamic. Here’s a tip, you can’t all be facing the same way.
Porlock Junior said,
December 18, 2007 at 8:06
@El Cid:
Partial death drowning?
I am speechless. I grovel at your feet. I would want to bear your child if not for some trivial anatomical difficulties.
Giant Zionist Hoax said,
December 18, 2007 at 8:06
Fascism certainly had its critics in the 1920s and 1930s.
I did not know this.
Was it Fats Waller ?
Rightwingsnarkle said,
December 18, 2007 at 8:09
“Was it Fats Waller ?”
No, Bix Beiderbecke.
America's Trees said,
December 18, 2007 at 8:11
Could this book have been shorter if it listed everyone who is not a fascist ?
Me said,
December 18, 2007 at 8:37
I just hope all this extra attention doesn’t boost sales.
Jon H said,
December 18, 2007 at 8:49
“Those white guys just don’t get the whole high-five dynamic. Here’s a tip, you can’t all be facing the same way.”
LOLKlan:
INVISIBLE HIGH-FIVES
America's Trees said,
December 18, 2007 at 8:58
I just hope all this extra attention doesn’t boost sales.
Who the hell on this thread is going to buy it ?
Thursday said,
December 18, 2007 at 9:07
“Ironically”
This word… I do not think it means what you think it means.
Thursday said,
December 18, 2007 at 9:08
I may buy this book in a bargain bin somewhere - I have a shelf labeled “Unintentional Humour”. Yes, Hal Lindsay has a place of honour there.
Edmund Schluessel said,
December 18, 2007 at 10:08
You guys all laugh. We’re gonna be cleaning this crud off Wikipedia for months.
Tim (the other one) said,
December 18, 2007 at 10:08
Hi folks, Chad Hitler here again..
What ??
Aww, Jesus, c’mon !!!!
Paddy Mac said,
December 18, 2007 at 10:09
Of course our Right still hates them hippies. They got laid, got by without working AND without having rich forbears’ to subsidize their slacking, and — worse yet — they questioned WHY. Why fight a war against people who did not attack us, could not attack us, and would not have attacked us? Why compete for more goodies in a system which rewards hucksterism, greed, and nihilistic consumerism, creates pollution, and gives all of the easy jobs to the sons of the idle rich? Why bother? This drives parasites like Doughpants crazy, because at some single-celled level, he understands that he would starve in the gutter without other people working.
Smut Clyde said,
December 18, 2007 at 10:31
Thursday said,
This word… I do not think it means what you think it means.
Indeed. Every time I read any of the paragraphs kindly provided by Brad, I find myself talking in an Inigo Montoya voice.
Look at the title of Chapter 7. “Liberal Racism: The Eugenic Ghost in the Fascist Machine.” You do not need to have read Gilbert Ryle’s book where he introduces the phrase ‘ghost in the machine’, to know that it does not mean the same as ’skeleton in the closet’.
I console myself with the thought that all these errors will be corrected in the 2nd Edition.
Lesley said,
December 18, 2007 at 10:31
Another exhausting day in wingnutland. I wonder what tomorrow will bring?
Hoosier X said,
December 18, 2007 at 10:55
Chris Muir will illustrate “Liberal Fascism”?
zython said,
December 18, 2007 at 11:12
I’m surprised that Saul hasn’t come in here defending the KKK.
bpower said,
December 18, 2007 at 11:40
Wait, the KKK cant be fascist because they hated foreigners? mmmkay.
The Citizen » Blog Archive » I hvilken Jonah Goldberg skrev sig ud af historien said,
December 18, 2007 at 11:46
[...] Nejnej. Ikke noget galt med at kalde Ku Klux Klan for “naitivist”. Nejnej. [...]
D. Sidhe said,
December 18, 2007 at 12:42
Holy shit. The next time my mom encourages me to write a book, I’m sending her a copy of this pile of crap. “This is what happens when they publish stuff just because a mother thinks her kid can write. Clear now? Good.”
Jillian said,
December 18, 2007 at 12:48
Jonah at two: “Mommy, I made a poopy on the potty!”
Jonah at seven: “Mommy, I roted my naem!”
Jonah at eleven: “Mommy, I rided my big boy bike today!”
Jonah at sixteen: “Mommy, I rided my big boy bike with no training wheels!”
Jonah at twenty-two: “Mommy, I gradumated from college!”
Jonah at twenty-five: “Mommy, I had the sex! With a girl!”
Jonah at thirty-five: “Mommy, I maded a baby, just like you!”
Jonah at thirty-six: “Mommy, I called liberals poopyheads, just like you!”
(Lex) Skink Tyree (Azagthoth) said,
December 18, 2007 at 14:49
Trees–good point.
Thursday–I’ve got one of those as well. Got a New World Order by Pat Robertson for 60 cents. I do have a few Coulters, which I keep shelved with the Lovecraft. Actually, one of my favorite musicians was asked for recommendations for books and he caught shit for recommending Coulter’s Slander. I love his defense for that decision, here.
(almost all the way down this page, actually now)
Gary Ruppert said,
December 18, 2007 at 14:54
The fact is, the style of a liberal often includes these characteristics:
1. calling conservative humor “unprofessional and meaningless, and degrades the quality of your encyclopedia.” [16]
2. overreliance on hearsay, such as the false claim that most support evolution
3. unjustified praise of atheists and other liberals as “geniuses”, despite little achievement
4. calling the use of the term liberal when used in a derogatory context “stupid”[17]
5. denial that people can grow out of a liberal viewpoint, such as atheism
6. denial of accountability
7. insisting on a mindless equality, as in “if you have an entry for Beethoven, then you must allow entries for vulgar rap artists!”
8. concealing one’s liberal views rather than admitting them
9. calling conservative free speech “hate” speech [18]
10. pretending to know more than he does; Isaac Newton admitted that he knew almost nothing, yet a liberal rarely admits that and often pretends to know more than he does
11. resistance to quantifying things, such as liberal bias or openmindedness
12. preference for obscenity and profanity [19]
13. insistence on having the last word in a discussion or debate
14. over-reliance on mockery [20] [21] [22] [23]
15. over-reliance on accusations of hypocrisy
16. hostility to faith
17. insistence on censoring certain speech, such as a description of The Flood or even teaching children about a massive flood, despite its acceptance by a majority of Americans[Citation Needed]
18. believing that the education of children is for liberals to control
19. believing that conservatives will fail, and refusing to accept when they succeed, as when George W. Bush won in 2000
20. reluctance to admit that anything is morally wrong
21. bullying conservatives who disagree with liberal views
22. draw an analogy between opponents and racists, no matter how illogical
23. claim that science supports their position, and ignore any evidence that shows their position to be false
24. often declare that an adversary should be “ashamed of himself,” while never saying that about a fellow liberal (such as Ted Kennedy or Bill Clinton)[24] [25]
25. willing to give away everything held dear by the majority to avoid serious conflict (such as the appeasement of Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, or those liberals who wish to pull our troops out of Iraq, and embolden the terrorists).
26. using hyperbole instead of fact-based logic in an attempt to tug at people’s emotions rather than appealing to their sense of reason.[26]
27. often long-winded and verbose, and in debates liberals often consume more than their fair share of the alloted time, leaving less time for the other side.
28. attempting to control the rules of evidence used in a debate. For example, claiming that Young Earth Creationism is false, and then refusing to allow supporting evidence by claiming that the scientists are religiously motivated.
29. attempting to control the definitions of words through political correctness. For example, referring to Israel as “occupied territories” or suggesting that Al-Qaeda terrorists in Iraq are not part of Al-Qaeda.
30. Dismissing legitimate criticism as “a joke” [27]
31. Denying something widely known to be true but difficult to prove, such as observing that men are far more likely to work in gas stations than women.[Citation Needed]
32. Will often deny being a liberal, or will claim to be a “true conservative”, while spouting liberal and democratic talking points and criticizing basic conservative beliefs and principles.
33. using non sequiturs in argument, such as responding to the point above that liberals over-rely on accusations of hypocrisy by citing an example of conservatives’ observing liberal hypocrisy. But their example does not help their argument. Quite the contrary, use of that example tends to prove that liberals do over-rely on accusations of hypocrisy (relativism). Think about that.
34. selectively citing the Bible when convenient, even though they hold much of it in disdain.
35. believing that bureaucratic honors or appointments are meaningful achievements.
36. silly demands for apologies.[28]
37. can’t understand the difference between identity (e.g., color of one’s skin), perspective (e.g., Judeo-Christian) and bias (e.g., Bias in Wikipedia).
38. inability or unwillingness to differentiate between genuine conservative arguments and parodies of conservative arguments.
39. “Contrariness is creativity to the untalented” - Dennis Miller’s general observation about liberal behavior.[Citation Needed]
40. Assuming criminals are on the other side of the political fence, without evidence.
MzNicky said,
December 18, 2007 at 15:03
Anyone heard from brad yet this morning? I’m hoping he’s still with us. I had a bad dream last night that he sat up reading for a long time and finally ran off screaming into the night, never to be heard from again.
D. Sidhe said,
December 18, 2007 at 15:04
Meanwhile, conservatives just go for plagiarism.
Nimrod Gently said,
December 18, 2007 at 15:11
As soon as I saw the post title, I knew this was Pantload’s Super Booky Wook again. What’s this idiotic lump of shit quote from, page four?
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
December 18, 2007 at 15:13
41. Accusing Gary of cutting and pasting from conservapedia.
P.S. Help for trolls.
(Lex) Skink Tyree (Azagthoth) said,
December 18, 2007 at 15:14
Gary–nice list of your own attributes with the word “liberal” sprinkled throughout. Good to get to know you better.
El Cid said,
December 18, 2007 at 15:21
The fact is, trying to make people not listen to what seems true to me by talking and giving facts and other things some people don’t like is fascism.
Clint said,
December 18, 2007 at 15:24
Crib from Conservapedia much?
Prospero said,
December 18, 2007 at 15:28
Does that sound like anyone you know?
Arky - Cthulhusexual said,
December 18, 2007 at 15:28
It would be funny as all fuck if Goldburp attracted a faithful following of Klan groupies.
And in the black & white photo, the guy in the glasses … is that Chevy Chase?
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
December 18, 2007 at 15:57
Jonah should have written an autobiography instead. Working title: “They Call Me Pantload”.
Nimrod Gently said,
December 18, 2007 at 15:57
No, it’s Eddie Deezen’s father.
zsa said,
December 18, 2007 at 16:22
I have nothing to add to this. It just bears repeating.
Scott said,
December 18, 2007 at 16:28
It would be funny as all fuck if Goldburp attracted a faithful following of Klan groupies.
I intend to refer to him as “KKK-advocate Jonah Goldberg” from now on.
bob said,
December 18, 2007 at 16:42
Could Jonah have been named after J. Jonah Jameson who ALWAYS found some reason to hate Spiderman despite his obvious goodgyuyhood? Trumping up bs evidence to PROVE that Spidey was EEEEEEEEEEVIL seems like the journalimismistic role model activity Doughbob might be using.
Notorious P.A.T. said,
December 18, 2007 at 16:43
Please tell me the entire book isn’t as stupid as that. Please reassure me that, in America today, being so astonishingly stupid for 400 pages will prevent someone from being published.
The mind boggles. What can one even say about such a festering pile of idiocy?
bob said,
December 18, 2007 at 16:45
Ok, the entire book isn’t as stupid as that. Oh, wait, yes it is.
Bim said,
December 18, 2007 at 16:46
Fer crissake, the Nazies were “nativists”. I’m sure if the Klan had their way, Jonah would be ironically liquidated.
OTB said,
December 18, 2007 at 16:59
As someone involved in publishing and writing, I can tell you: Jonah wasn’t published *despite* his stupidity, but *because* of it. I’ll bet you any amount of money that Jonah’s publishers are “thrilled” by the “reaction” the book is “getting.”
Blog of the Moderate Left » Blog Archive » A Very Serious, Thoughtful Misogynistic Smear That Has Never Been Made in Such Detail or with Such Care said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:00
[...] it his attempt to argue that the KKK was not fascist because they hated immigrants, and therefore liberals are fascists for calling the KKK fascists (an argument which one can only hope Dave Neiwert doesn’t come across without warning, lest [...]
ed said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:10
Dumbfuck writes, “…[The KKK] tended to despise Mussolini and his American followers (mainly because they were immigrants)…”
Hmm. If it turned out that contemporary conservatives, and not liberals, were the ones who hated immigrants, would there be a word for that?
vimothy said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:21
He said “tended”, though, didn’t he? That would suggest that the KKK tended to despise Fascism then, but doesn’t so much now. Which may be right, for all I know.
In any case, it should be obvious to all that
1. Fascism (as in the specific political programme, not just the pejorative) is a statist tendency that originated with the modern socialist “movements of a new type” (to ues Lenin’s phrase) in the 20th Centuary.
2. These movements were (and are) the antithesis of liberalism.
3. Liberalism has nothing to do with the Democratic Party. Liberalism is the politics of Smith and Hulme, of the European Enlightenment, of private proerty and the impartial rule of law, of trade and commerce, and of the individual not the state.
Goldberg is (from my perspective) trying to get up the noses of his American political enemies, and it’s working. However, there are some important points to be made in this debate. Fascism and Nazism are a part of the left spectrum. Leftists should stop trying to pretend that simply because these movements were racist, they were “extreme right”. Yes, they were racists, but so were most (if not all) Communists. In policy terms, Fascist were simply less extreme socialists (which partially accounts for Mussolini’s popularity), and as such share a lot in common with most modern western post-war governments - Blairite Britain or Scandanavian social democracy, for example. On this basis, if nothing else (I haven’t read the book and I doubt anyone else here has), the Dems should be closer in principle to Fascist policies than the republicans, because of the GOP’s ties to libertarianism (i.e. classical liberalism), nominal conservatism (i.e. defense of enlightnement values on which America was founded) and business (i.e. pro capitalist engine of growth).
Whether or not this is in fact the case (see for example George Bush) is another matter.
Jen said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:23
“one of his evidences that Mussolini was a liberal was that HE LIKED SEX… JUST LIKE LIBERALS DO!!!! I shit you not.”
Oh, to be Jonah’s girlfriend….must bleach my imagination now, hold on.
I thought everyone just went to conservapedia for the gay sex? (check out the page view statistics some time….fascinating…) I didn’t know they also went to cut and paste an ARGUMENT (I mean, who cuts and pastes an argument? Gary, I guess) without even including the citations, which are no doubt fascinating in their own right. I mean, what more definitive authority could there be than Dennis Miller?
The line about “selectively citing the Bible when convenient” is just too precious. Oh, shoot, I’m over-relying on mockery again…
vimothy said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:25
“Liberalism has nothing to do with the Democratic Party.”
Ok, just read that and it’s an over-exaggeration (regression to the mean!). But I’m sure you all know what I trying to say: What’s called liberalism in America isn’t what was developed as liberalism as a philosophy in Enlightenment Europe.
bob said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:33
vimothy, you understand this subject as poorly as Goldberg.
Dhalgren said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:33
I’m really going to get sick if this book makes it into Amazon’s top 1,000.
g said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:34
Not meaning to blog-whore, but I was just over at the Bag News Notes site, and they’ve posted the White House holiday “program” - its more than a card - and found it truly creepy. The holiday message that the Bush family is sending us seems to be that the White House is a haunted house, inhabited by lonely animals and presided over by a wicked witch.
Here’s the Bag
Here’s the White House holiday program.
For reference, Here’s the real Barbara Bush portrait that hangs in the White House.
a different mikey said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:35
Vimothy meet Gary. Gary, Vimothy. Y’all will get along great. Just do it somewhere else.
Jen said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:42
Vimothy, trying to turn this book into something with a legitimate historical or intellectual argument in it somewhere is, well, let me just quote Butthead: you can’t polish a turd, Beavis.
vimothy said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:44
“vimothy, you understand this subject as poorly as Goldberg.”
Right - and with critics like you who needs good reviews? Have a word mate, there’s no unwritten law that states that conservatives will always be wrong and progressives will always be right. I’m no fan of Goldberg, but it sure looks as though he’s at least prepared to put his money where his mouth is and outline an argument (even if it is a half-truth at best).
I’m not saying “liberals = fascists”, but that policies adopted by Fascist powers are not uncommon in the modern world, and that attitudes towards the state and the collective population, which originated in the European radical milieu are now the generic positions of US “liberals” and Euro social democrats and leftists.
Nothing wrong with that, necessarily, and nothing to suggest that the governments or political parties in question (which of course involves the Reps as much as the Dems - minimal government my ass) need enact the more reprehensible policies of Fascist Europe.
bob said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:45
Jen, you CAN however chrome plate a turd, which you can THEN polish. It remains, in any case , a turd.
bob said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:45
hey vim, fuck off
bob said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:46
mate
vimothy said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:51
“Vimothy meet Gary. Gary, Vimothy. Y’all will get along great. Just do it somewhere else.”
“hey vim, fuck off”
Sorry - guess I bought the bulls**t about so-called liberals actually being liberal, but in reality you’re as closed minded as any other conservative, keep-me-in-my-comfort-zone and pass-the-ammunition, stereotypically unintersted yank.
Have fun non-debating your own fantasy version of history (the parallels with Jonah’s are indeed pretty stark) and self-righteously hurling insults at anyone who disagrees.
vimothy said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:52
Wanker
Arky - Chuthuhlusexual said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:55
Ah, the soft bigotry of no expectations. According to vimothy, if I decide to write a book in which I claim that all heterosexual males are in fact evil duck billed platypusses bent on world domination, and only gay males stand between the innocent people of the world and a spur full of brain-melting toxins, I should get some credit for taking a big advance on my opus and shitting out over 400 pages of gibberish.
Jesus, please tell me you have nothing to do with educating children.
Arky - Chuthuhlusexual said,
December 18, 2007 at 17:58
Shorter vim: Waah, reality has a liberal bias!
g said,
December 18, 2007 at 18:00
Sorry - guess I bought the bulls**t about so-called liberals actually being liberal, but in reality you’re as closed minded as any other conservative, keep-me-in-my-comfort-zone and pass-the-ammunition, stereotypically unintersted yank.
God, I wish I had a quarter for every version of this sentiment that concern-trolls have posted here over the years! I’d be a wealthy woman.
vimothy said,
December 18, 2007 at 18:02
“Ah, the soft bigotry of no expectations. According to vimothy, if I decide to write a book in which I claim that all heterosexual males are in fact evil duck billed platypusses bent on world domination, and only gay males stand between the innocent people of the world and a spur full of brain-melting toxins, I should get some credit for taking a big advance on my opus and shitting out over 400 pages of gibberish.”
Ah, the boring inevitability of straw-men. Viva la revolution!
“Shorter vim: Waah, reality has a liberal bias!”
That being the case, why does my pointing out the aspects of Goldberg’s thought that have merit or at the very least some historical validity draw immediate abuse and misrepresentation?
Shorter arky: Waah, we’re reality proof!
g said,
December 18, 2007 at 18:04
vimothy really likes pie.
vimothy said,
December 18, 2007 at 18:05
vimothy is reminded of LGF — numerous uninformed comments and p,entiful abuse for anyone questioning the conventional wisdom.
tigrismus said,
December 18, 2007 at 18:08
You’re not debating in good faith, you’re making bullshit assertions with no support and redefining words to suit your whims. Why should anyone even pretend to take you seriously?
bob said,
December 18, 2007 at 18:08
Yes, vim, you are a fucking idiot troll. Noting that you are a fucking idiot troll does not make me the same as a conservative. You are not pointing out any historic merit. You are a fucking idiot. Just like Jonah. Have a nice life.
dBa said,
December 18, 2007 at 18:10
“Fascism and Nazism are a part of the left spectrum.”
You can’t rewrite history and definitions, it doesn’t work, except on stupid people.
sophronia said,
December 18, 2007 at 18:18
The photos that you’ve posted not only make the book look full of drivel disguised as argument (oooh, Dachau made organic honey! Quick, everyone repudiate the fascist tool Whole Foods!) but they also make it obvious that the books’ margins are about four inches on the left and right. No wonder Jonah managed to fill 400 pages.
stringonastick said,
December 18, 2007 at 18:19
I’m thinking that perhaps Jonah just called the KKK a bunch of hippies; I’m also thinking the KKK might not take kindly to that sort of talk.
vimothy said,
December 18, 2007 at 18:22
This looks like the base level of debate:
“Jonah’s lil’ KKK dig is historically accurate, in that the KKK was intensely ant-Cathollic and anti-southern European (too close to africa).”
“Yeah, but dude. He’s taking historically accurate tidbits and yanking them way the eff out of their context in order to score cheap political points. “OMG, LIBERAL FASCISTS, EVEN TEH KLAN H4T3D MUSSOLINI, YOU CAN’T CALL THEM FASCISTS LOLOLOLOLOL!!!1!””
As in, ok there maybe some points worth discussing, but we’d much rather emote and insult conservative thickies, yooo!!!!
“You’re making bullshit assertions with no support and redefining words to suit your whims”.
Did you even read what I wrote? Regardless of what Goldberg says in his book, Fascism developed out of the socialist milieu in Europe, just like Nazism and other collectivist, anti-enlightenment movements (taking the Russian revolution as their model). These totalitarian movements are anti-liberal by their very nature.Therefore in so far as any political party is involved in liberal democracy (i.e. is liberal in an institutional sense), they are not Fascist, if by Fascist we mean the broad swathe of 20th radical movements.
However, Fascism as a specific instance of these movements was a forerunner for many of the types of government that we have today. That includes (what you in the US call) conservative governments just as much as it includes (what you in the US call) liberal governments.
pedestrian said,
December 18, 2007 at 18:25
attitudes towards the state and the collective population, which originated in the European radical milieu are now the generic positions of US “liberals” and Euro social democrats and leftists.
I guess, but only because that “radical milieu” includes the Enlightenment and the French Revolution (which Jonah defines as the original fascist movement). So if anyone other than a divine-right monarch is a fascist, yes, we are all fascists. It kind of loses it’s moral punch then, doesn’t it?
Neil said,
December 18, 2007 at 18:25
“You can’t rewrite history and definitions, it doesn’t work, except on stupid people.”
But you can try. And my word are these people trying. Question is, why? Isn’t “trying to re-define words” supposed to be, like, a bad thing?
Orwell must be turning in his grave, unless he secretly intended Nineteen Eighty-Four to be an instruction manual rather than a warning.
actor212 said,
December 18, 2007 at