Dec
11

Christmas At Powerline




Posted at 2:54 by Jillian

I love this time of year. It brings out the best in everyone. It’s our chance to remember the kindred spirit of all humankind, to reflect upon the virtures of kindness and generosity of both spirit and of material goods. It is also once again time to be instructed in the duties of Christian charity and virtue by our favorite conservative bloggers.

hindypole6.jpg
Above: Hung with care

This time, it’s John Hinderaker from Powerline, who shows us that, just as Jesus would have done, he’s not above scoring cheap points against his political enemies off of a genuine human tragedy.

The man who shot up a training center for missionaries and a church in suburban Denver, killing four people and wounding a number of others, has been identified:

A law enforcement official says the deadly rampages at a megachurch and a missionary training school were believed to have been carried out by the same person—Matthew Murray, a 24-year-old suburban Denver man who “hated Christians.”

It is perhaps worth noting that the toll in Sunday’s shootings exceeded the combined total in all “hate crimes” against Muslims in the six years since September 11

Now, let’s just set aside what a poorly written sentence that is, shall we? Because after reading it, I’m not sure if Hindy means to compare the number of murders over the weekend with the number of Muslims who have been murdered in hate crime incidents, or if he means to compare the murders over the weekend with the number of hate crimes in general against Muslims. Either way, aside from being a pompous, callous jackass, he’s just wrong.

A quick perusal of the FBI hate crimes database shows that in the years 2001-2006, exactly one person was murdered out of religious bias. In 2002, one person whose religion is listed as “other” was murdered in a hate crime. The real kicker here is that this attack in Colorado shows absolutely no signs of being a hate crime in the first place.* Hinderaker, like most of his ilk, has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about when it comes to hate crime legislation. But then again, why should he? After all, he’s just a lawyer. But trying to imply that Muslims don’t have it as bad as Christians do when it comes to bias murders is pretty damn stupid when nobody in this country gets murdered over religious bias — not, at least, as far as the statistics kept by the FBI are concerned.

If, however, he meant to compare the deaths in Colorado this weekend to the “combined total in all ‘hate crimes’ (love the scare quotes, by the way) against Muslims in the six years since September 11″…..um, I’m not quite sure how to put this delicately…..

Almost a thousand Muslims have experienced either aggravated assault, simple assault, or intimidation qualified by the FBI as “hate crimes” since 2001. And yeah, I actually sat and compiled the data off the bases for five years, just to make a point about how completely ignorant and petty John Hinderaker is. I’m not sure why I did it, either — consider it my Christmas gift to the Powerline boys (the grand total, barring any addition errors on my part, was actually 912, in case anyone’s interested).

But being John Hinderaker means never having to say you’re sorry, even when you are wrong by several orders of magnitude.

Merry Christmas, John! Maybe if you’re lucky, someone will burn down a megachurch sometime this week, just so you can have more excuses to make catty comments about how good those nasty Muslims have it here in America, where they don’t even deserve to be, after all.


* Hindy provides the following in an update:

UPDATE: Murray was apparently a former Christian who was kicked out of Youth With a Mission, the missionary training program, some years ago.

This should be unsurprising to all but Hindy, because the article he was quoting in the first place continues thusly:

Authorities searched the Murray home Monday on a quiet street in Englewood. No one was home when a reporter visited the split-level brick home early Monday. Murray’s father, Ronald S. Murray, is a neurologist who is chief executive of the Rocky Mountain Multiple Sclerosis Center in Englewood.

Matthew Murray lived there along with a brother, Christopher, 21, a student at Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Okla.

A neighbor, Cody Askeland, 19, said the brothers were home-schooled, describing the whole family as “very, very religious.”

69 Comments »

  1. Doug H. said,

    December 11, 2007 at 2:58

    But being John Hinderaker means never having to say you’re sorry, even when you are wrong by several orders of magnitude.

    Being a wingnut means never having to say you’re sorry. They’re all about personal responsibility – for other people.

  2. Emperor U.S.A. (the naked truth) said,

    December 11, 2007 at 2:59

    Well, I just read that the gunman had been kicked out of the missionary school he shot up and that a neighbor described him and his brother as home-schooled and “very, very religious”. But yeah, that’s pretty much the same thing as being a violent atheist.

  3. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:00

    Dog bless us, everyone!

  4. Christian Citizen said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:02

    Reading Hinderaker has convinced me that Christians need hate crimes legislation to protect them. What? They already have it? Oh, then it should be taken away from everyone else.

  5. Emperor U.S.A. (the naked truth) said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:02

    Here’s a link.

  6. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:08

    Almost a thousand Muslims have experienced either aggravated assault, simple assault, or intimidation qualified by the FBI as “hate crimes” since 2001.

    Don’t any of the people CheneyCo. has slaughtered in Irackeystan count?

  7. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:12

    Is name stealing a sin, faux Righteous Bubba?

  8. javaphil said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:13

    Don’t any of the people CheneyCo. has slaughtered in Irackeystan count?

    Sadly no. (Said with genuine despair)

  9. AeroSaul said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:17

    It must be very strange to be John Assrocket. With ignorance and stupidity approaching to retardation, he can’t get anyone to shut up about it. He’s like a finger painter; revealing one diarrhea splatter after another, to an audience that, when not laughing, is hostile.

  10. Malignant Bouffant said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:17

    More fall out from last wk.’s mall shooting.

    Or part of the “War on X-mess” from the other side, who insist that X-mess is all pagan/commercial crap & Jesus shouldn’t be dragged into it.

    …“hate crimes” against Muslims in the six years since September 11
    Did he forget our adventure in Iraq? Not up to a Holocaust count yet, but if that isn’t a “hate crime,” I don’t know what is.

  11. pedestrian said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:19

    As someone who comes from the Christian Academy/ homeschool milieu, I’m really knocked off my feet by all of this. There are some people who are just unbalanced, and we don’t really know why. I can’t quite say that being brought up in a militant environment like that caused him to respond in the way that he did. But it sure doesn’t help, I can tell you that.

  12. Malignant Bouffant said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:21

    Oh, ITTDGY™³²®©, w/ your advanced typing skills & speed, you beat me to it!

  13. J— said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:28

    Ye Ole Professor:

    Plus, was this a “hate crime” by a man who “hated Christians?”

    And when Ye Ole Professor and Ye Hinder Rocket read Judith Kohler’s most recent AP story (see the Emperor’s link), the professor will know the answer to his most innocent question and the both of them will surely update their posts.

    Also, gun-fetish wingnut boys are gonna go gaga over the woman who shot Murray.

  14. mikey said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:34

    Gad, I wish I was smart enough to keep up.

    Need some more help here.

    Is he saying americans don’t hate muslims?

    Is he saying americans don’t commit hate crimes against muslims?

    What is one to think about all that “pig races” shit and those “get off the plane” events and “Barack Hussein Obama?

    If someone can explain to me his point, I’d be forever grateful….

    mikey

  15. Smiling Mortician said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:39

    Plus, was this a “hate crime” by a man who “hated Christians?”

    Well, if we can allow that a rabidly homeschooled christowinger was so filled with self-loathing and angershame at being booted from the program he was raised to adore that he tried to kill it . . . then, technically, yes. I guess he hated christians. Or those specific christians. Or everybody. Who the fuck knows? And how dare assrocket presume to . . .

    Ah, to hell with it. Jillian, you slay me with your ability to respond to this shit rationally. I raise a glass to you.

  16. Assrocket, trying to help mikey said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:44

    Is he saying americans don’t hate muslims?

    Of course we do. They deserve it. Duh.

    Is he saying americans don’t commit hate crimes against muslims?

    OK here’s where you’re confused. “Hate crimes” don’t really exist, but if they did, they’d be committed only by dark and islamically-influenced people. And left-wingers. And other haters. Not by us.

    What is one to think about all that “pig races” shit and those “get off the plane” events and “Barack Hussein Obama?

    Those are all examples of good old American fun, and you know it. Stop being difficult.

  17. gbear said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:46

    Every time I hear or read John Hinderaker or Scott Johnson I am embarrassed that they are from MN. The upside is that there are plenty of snowbanks to stuff them into right now.

    Some of the stupid sloppy writing in Hindaraker’s piece can likely be attributed to him writing quickly so as to post before more of the background of the shooter came known. Taking time to ascertain facts can ruin a perfectly ignorant commentary.

  18. Leonard Pierce said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:51

    Silly Jillian, Muslims don’t even celebrate Christmas! Why should we be nice to them?

    So, let’s get this straight: a young man, raised Christian, homeschooled by Christian parents, who once attended a Christian missionary school, goes on a shooting spree, claiming to hate Christians, and the right claims that he’s an atheist and a Christian-hating bigot. Let’s say that a young man, raised Muslim, schooled at a madrass, who once studied to be an imam, went on a shooting spree claiming to hate Islam. What religion do you think they’d say he belonged to?

    Also, note that the woman who shot Murray was named ASSAM! That’s an ARAB name! Thank goodness she was a Christian (the only good ones, don’t you know), or she probably would have helped him kill people.

  19. gbear said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:52

    If someone can explain to me his point, I’d be forever grateful….

    Mikey, I think it’s comparable to the George Carlin newsman skit where he says that traffic fatalities are down 10% this year and then admonishes the listeners for falling behind because they’re not trying hard enough.

  20. Marco said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:56

    I was wondering how and when a wingnut was going to bring “Muslims/Islam/Islamofacist Threat that NEVER NEVER ENDS” into this tragedy.

    Thanks Hindrocket for bravely being the first asshole to walk up and stick your foot in it.

    Did I call him an asshole? Oh, I did? Look, I did type “asshole” up there. Wouldn’t want to overdo it on calling him an asshole, that’s for asshole…er, sure.

  21. El Cid said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:56

    If anything, this would apparently more accurately be described as sectarian violence within Christian power groups. The dude couldn’t be more representative of the sectarian Christian community — they rejected secular public schools and the guy was home schooled.

  22. christian soldier said,

    December 11, 2007 at 3:57

    What kind of a fucked up fucking church has fucking armed security guards on-hand anyway? To me, that’s the weirdest fucking thing about the whole fucking story.

  23. Arlington Acid said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:00

    Me, I’m an anti-god feller, hates me some xtians (big-time) but I wouldn’t waste perfectly good ammo on ‘em. Besides, them xtians generally off themselves, what with the double wetsuits/ dildo up the butt thing, and what not…must be the home schoolin’ ‘n such.

  24. paul said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:00

    you call yourself christian soldier and ask that? you’re just funnin’, right?

  25. mikey said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:11

    Whoa, hey, hang on here, now.

    I’m just thinkin out loud here.

    I hate these fuckers, but I’ve always wanted to find a way onto that whole christian church preacher gravy train.

    You think, if I let them “forgive my sins” and wash my balls or whatever they do, I could get a job as armed security in a megachurch?

    ‘Cause, and I’m just thinkin here, that sounds like a sweet gig…

    mikey

  26. Smiling Mortician said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:17

    Mikey, if you’re not gonna follow up on the whole presidential campaign thing, I’d advise a move into televangelipreneurialism. I know nothing about bidness, but I’ll volunteer to be your bidness manager anyway. I think you (we) could really cash in.

  27. Marsupial said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:19

    Wasn’t it just last week when, while blaming the Omaha mall shootings on everyone but themselves, some of the interchangable wingnuts were screeching that the shootings were due to gun control measures, and that if there were more guns in Omaha, then the victims would have been armed (as Huckabee recommends) and they wouldn’t have been victims? If memory serves, Colorado is one of the most armed states in the nation. You can practically drive around waving a handgun out the window. And yet, it didn’t help. I wonder why they’re silent this time?

  28. Smiling Mortician said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:22

    Oh no, Marsupial. They’re absolutely thrilled that the latest killer was stopped in his tracks by an armed guard. And they don’t find it weird at all that they’ve created a society in which churches need armed guards.

  29. christian soldier said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:24

    Paul, I have honestly never been in a church with a security guard.

  30. Malignant Bouffant, confused & disturbed, said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:26

    Oh, in my continuing campaign for larger fonts, I misread that. He hated Xtians, not X-mess. To quote gbear: “Taking time to ascertain facts can ruin a perfectly ignorant commentary.”

  31. mikey said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:27

    Mortician. Maybe I’m just not clear on the whole thing, and some of these creeps are pretty funky when you think about it, but wouldn’t I need at least a modicum of charm or charisma?

    If not, we have a plan…

    mikey

  32. Malignant Bouffant said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:37

    What kind of a fucked up fucking church has fucking armed security guards on-hand anyway? To me, that’s the weirdest fucking thing about the whole fucking story.

    Well, here’s a surprise. The New Life Megachurch of Pastor Ted Haggard fame. Think some of the other meth as a scarament users there were a little paranoid? The senior pastor said there had been gun-wielding security there for quite some time & they weren’t “mercenaries,” but licensed to pack heat members of the congregation.

  33. g said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:38

    Hindrocket probably isn’t counting as victims of hate crimes all the people who were killed because some dumb-ass motherfucker THOUGHT they were Muslim but were too stupid to know that they were Sikhs.

  34. Kman said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:38

    And since this post, we have learned that the gunman wasn’t a Christian hating libtard heathen so much as — well, from the AP:

    The gunman believed to have killed four people at a megachurch and a missionary training school had been thrown out of the school a few years ago and had been sending it hate mail, police said in court papers Monday.

    The gunman was identified as Matthew Murray, 24, who was home-schooled in what a friend said was a deeply religious Christian household.

    Oh Hindy. Is there any pile of shit you can’t step in?

  35. Doctorb Science said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:39

    Well, you know, it’s never too soon to point to a tragic (or really, just awful) occurrence and say Look How This Demonstrates My Talking Points.

  36. Arky - Cthulhusexual said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:40

    It says his father is a leading researcher on MS. So… they’ll find a way to blame it on stem cells.

  37. Malignant Bouffant, who needs a keyboard w/o all the letters on it worn off, said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:41

    “Sacrament,” Gawd damn it, not “scarament!”

  38. Malignant Bouffant, who needs a keyboard w/o all the letters on it worn off, said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:43

    g, a person wearing a trowel is a person wearing a trowel. Let’s not split hairs.

  39. Doctorb Science said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:45

    What kind of a fucked up fucking church has fucking armed security guards on-hand anyway?

    Well, it says they “beefed up” security hours after the shootings the previous night. Seems like that was a good idea. Having armed security guards, that is, who have presumably trained and all that — not saying “oh yeah, due to some threats we’ve decided to ask all the congregants to bring their guns to church, okay?”.

  40. Arlington Acid said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:45

    Paul, I have honestly never been in a church with a security guard.

    Dude, your “corpse on a stick” was nailed there by armed soldiers and backed up by an angry mob! If I was an xtian (god forbid), I’d insist that everyone in the congregation be required to carry a .45 at the very least!

  41. Tom said,

    December 11, 2007 at 4:58

    It is perhaps worth noting that the toll in Sunday’s shootings exceeded the combined total in all “hate crimes” against Muslims in the six years since September 11

    It’s perhaps worth noting that 36,000 Americans will die from the flu this year. That is ten times the number that died on 9/11. I have no idea what that means but I doubt that Hinderaker knows what he means either.

  42. Arky - Cthulhusexual said,

    December 11, 2007 at 5:13

    Oh no, I think Arlington Acid has predicted the next stage of fRighty “reasoning:”

    If only Jesus and his disciples had been packing heat, he wouldn’t have been crucified!

  43. jgmurphy said,

    December 11, 2007 at 5:35

    To say the guy “hated Christians” is the most disingenuous kind of lie—-since Murray WAS a Christian—in fact, one of their “own” Christians who had been home-schooled in a Christian-nutcase home and had actually been thrown out of their school a few years back.

    Interestingly, one of his targets was the New Life Church, Ted Haggard’s old stomping grounds (the totally cured now-heterosexual, remember?). One is tempted to speculate as to whether Murray might have been a victim of abuse at the Church…….?

  44. gbear said,

    December 11, 2007 at 5:41

    If only Jesus and his disciples had been packing heat, he wouldn’t have been crucified!

    but then no one would have remembered Jesus any better than we remember Aaron of Nazareth.

  45. SamFromUtah said,

    December 11, 2007 at 6:00

    Paul, I have honestly never been in a church with a security guard.

    The Quaker meeting I go to is absolutely bristling with firearms. It’s just how we do things out West.

  46. lobbey said,

    December 11, 2007 at 6:26

    What kind of a fucked up fucking church has fucking armed security guards on-hand anyway? To me, that’s the weirdest fucking thing about the whole fucking story.

    that was my thought too, peaceful and loving Xtains, and the security guard needs to be armed!!!!!

    or are they afraid of the scary Muuuuuslims……

  47. Dagoril said,

    December 11, 2007 at 6:36

    Youth With A Mission…my my my…that’s the same group that the moron responsible for “Path to 911″ was affiliated with. Now who on earth could have foreseen that a hateful Christianist group like that would have links to a mass shooting?

  48. gbear said,

    December 11, 2007 at 6:47

    Jillian, looks like there might be room for 6 christmas stockings on that photo too?

  49. Anne Laurie said,

    December 11, 2007 at 7:02

    JGMurphy, I’ll admit that as soon as Haggard’s Eeuf Wid Emission program was mentioned, my first thought was “And now the Heartlanders find out it wasn’t only Papist priests and Congressmen that were molesting the local boys.”

    I give it six weeks before some Little Green Snotballer or Freepubic Hair gets their paranoia wires crossed and asserts, with full panoply of extraclamation points, that the female security guard named “Assam” was a secrit Mooslim teerrer-ist who drove a virginal xtian homeschooler into insanity with her deadly wiles, primed him to go blast other Godfearers, and then shot him before he could be captured & questioned. You know, an Ibn Manuchar-ian Candidate scenario.

  50. Malignant Bouffant said,

    December 11, 2007 at 7:38

    No such thing as a “former” Xtian. That would be apostasy, & that’s not allowed.

    By the way, when do we start “profiling” the most obvious terror threats, white males from puberty to, oh say, 25 or so, & then white males from about 35 to decrepitude, especially those of us w/o a job, or w/ crummy jobs we hate, or who’ve never been married, or who are trapped in marriages we hate, or…well, you know.

  51. gbear said,

    December 11, 2007 at 8:00

    Oh thanks M.B. I have three red flags on your profile list. I’m going to ask for a waiver for never having been married. For some of us, It’s still illegal.

  52. Malignant Bouffant, loner w/ problems, said,

    December 11, 2007 at 10:06

    Hey, I have three flags too!! I’m just crying for help. Those are mighty inclusive profiling criteria. I suspect about 95% of us white guys could go @ any moment. My reasons are perfectly rational, of course, unlike the rest of you.

  53. Hoosier X said,

    December 11, 2007 at 10:06

    There are some people who are just unbalanced,

    I’d say Hindrocket is unbalanced because of a steady diet of Cheetos and too many news sources that can be traced back to the White House and conservative think tanks.

    Oh. You were talking about the shooter. I’d say being surrounded by delusional people, who have no idea they are delusional because of constant affirmation by people like Hindrocket, probably has some effect.

  54. (: Tom :) said,

    December 11, 2007 at 10:36

    Just a couple of things…

    This AssReamer guy is supposed to be a lawyer, right? And he’s got no clue of how hate crimes legislation works. It sorta sounds like InstaCracker also has the same no clue on this legalese. Just sayin’…

    And, it would be doubleplus good to see the Powertools pursue this in the courts of the great state of Minnesota. The comedic potential is off the scale.

    Thanks for the early present. It’s nice to see the spirit of festivus shining through on this blog. I think an Invisible Sky Fairy’s Unseen Helper just got their wings. Well played!

  55. ajay said,

    December 11, 2007 at 13:18

    What kind of a fucked up fucking church has fucking armed security guards on-hand anyway?

    Well, the Vatican has those fellas with halberds…

  56. Smut Clyde said,

    December 11, 2007 at 13:33

    but then no one would have remembered Jesus any better than we remember Aaron of Nazareth.
    I look forward to reading more about the Gnostic Gospel of Aaron.
    Was he one of Jesus’ younger brothers? The one who would cause all the trouble at stonings? — Jesus would Intone “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone”, and then Aaron would muscle up to the front of the crowd with his boulder and there would be bloodshed.

  57. bago said,

    December 11, 2007 at 14:44

    The last mass shooting my friends were at involved someone who was annoyed at their real or imagined sexual proclivities.

  58. Arky - Cthulhusexual said,

    December 11, 2007 at 15:52

    Thanks to that picture part of my breakfast just collided with my monitor.

  59. Robert M. said,

    December 11, 2007 at 15:55

    Doctorb Science:

    Well, it says they “beefed up” security hours after the shootings the previous night. Seems like that was a good idea. Having armed security guards, that is, who have presumably trained and all that — not saying “oh yeah, due to some threats we’ve decided to ask all the congregants to bring their guns to church, okay?”

    Most of the stories I’ve seen mention that the security guard was an off-duty cop, as well as a congregant. Not sure what training the new beefed-up guard will have, but at least in this aspect of things, New Life seems to have made a decent decision.

    I’m not sure I understand why this wouldn’t qualify, at least colloquially, as a hate crime. My understanding is that hate-crimes legislation affects the sentencing for things that are already crimes, and clearly there won’t be any sentencing here, but I don’t have a problem with Hindy et al. describing this as a “hate crime”.

    What I do have a problem with is the idea that just because Christians are the occasional targets of hate crimes, that excuses all the hate crimes committed by Christians (not to mention acts of outright terrorism). The Left doesn’t want people to redirect their hate at a particular target… we want there to be less hate, period. It’s kind of like how we think free speech is worth protecting, even when it means that folks like Hinderaker are allowed to participate in the public discourse.

  60. MileHi Hawkeye said,

    December 11, 2007 at 18:07

    “What kind of a fucked up fucking church has fucking armed security guards on-hand anyway? To me, that’s the weirdest fucking thing about the whole fucking story.”

    Here is snowy Colorado, the common wisdom is that this guy had been making threats for awhile against that Mission and this church. So, they’ve know about the threat for awhile before the shootings (hence the added security). Did they report the threats? Not that I’ve heard.

    The “security guard” was in fact the head pastor’s personal bodyguard. Former cop–at the end of a three day fast so the story goes. She was weak, but Jesus was “beside her the whole time”.

    I’m a bit out of touch with the church goer’s, but is fasting common place among these people? Is that so they can speak in tongues or have better visions?

  61. TonyRz said,

    December 11, 2007 at 18:53

    > Interestingly, one of his targets was the New Life Church,
    > Ted Haggard’s old stomping grounds (the totally cured
    > now-heterosexual, remember?). One is tempted to
    > speculate as to whether Murray might have been a victim
    > of abuse at the Church…….?

    Yeah, because it would be totally irresponsible NOT to speculate that a guy with a thing for rather superannuated manwhores wasn’t also running a child-molestation ring.

    I mean, really. WTF?

  62. stringonastick said,

    December 11, 2007 at 19:11

    “What kind of a fucked up fucking church has fucking armed security guards on-hand anyway? To me, that’s the weirdest fucking thing about the whole fucking story.”

    You’ve never been to Colorado Springs, have you? Ah yes, that jewel of the Colorado Front Range, where Focus on the Family has such a large compound that they (1) have their own state-supplied highway sign for their turn off from I-25, and (2) their own zip code. The story is that FOTF and bunches and bunches of other winger Xtians decided to make Colorado Springs the new home-base after deciding that Orange County was too expensive. As I recall (too lazy to Gazoolgelelelel it), there are over 50 Xtian evangelical, missionary groups of various types headquartered in the Springs. I am hoping that we can all now see where all the insane anti-gay, anti-tax legislation originates in an otherwise pretty OK western state.

    I’ve got pagan friends down there, they say that the one good thing about all these Xtian groups is it made the fractious pagan/athetist/hippies get organized and become a local political force, which is a tough thing to do in a town full of active and retired military, and always active Xtian whackjobs.

  63. gbear said,

    December 11, 2007 at 19:28

    Some very late incoming info here. The security guard at the church had been a Minneapolis cop but was fired for lying about swearing at a bus driver.

    http://www.startribune.com/local/12356581.html

  64. Troll, The Ancient Yuletide Carol said,

    December 11, 2007 at 20:27

    “I just think those Xtians should be persecuted like they persecute everyone else.”

    Where is the love, bubba? I think you’ll be needing this gift from…

    Underneath my Christmas Tree
    compliments of Dr BLT copyright 2007 Frosty Rock Records
    http://www.drblt.net/music/tree.mp3

  65. Doctorb Science said,

    December 11, 2007 at 21:33

    Arky, they were packing heat. Swords, anyway (two of them!). Jesus told the disciples to sell their cloaks to buy swords. And also not to use the swords. Sword sword sword sword.

  66. actor212 said,

    December 11, 2007 at 22:22

    There’s that homeschooling again, putting all sorts of sociopathic thoughts inand corrupting the minds of our youth…

  67. slavdude said,

    December 11, 2007 at 23:12

    The man who shot up a training center for missionaries and a church in suburban Denver,

    Colorado Springs (the location of the New Life Church, former home of our ol’ buddy Ted Haggard, where the church shooting took place) is hardly a Denver suburb, unless you think Denver is a 70-mile-long megalopolis.

    But the distance looks so small on a map! (Overheard once while on the East Coast in reference to a person from Massachusetts visiting friends west of the Mississippi.)

  68. MileHi Hawkeye said,

    December 12, 2007 at 1:22

    Latest update from the land of ice and snow…

    Autopsy results reveal that the shooter took his own life.

    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/dec/11/coroner-murray-killed-himself/

    Fundies and gun nuts trying to wrap their little heads around that nugget.

  69. b[i]nk said,

    December 12, 2007 at 8:50

    Murray was apparently a former Christian who was kicked out of Youth With a Mission, the missionary training program, some years ago.

    The son of the founder of YWAM is evangelical-media mover and shaker David L. Cunningham (you can wiki that), whose TFI — the cleverly titled “The Film Institute” — is expressly designed to train Christian filmmakers and help place them in order to exert more Christian influence in mainstream media. Cunningham’s big coup? ABC’s “The Path to 9/11,” which was scripted by neocon writer Cyrus Nowrasteh and promoted by ABC exec Judith Tukich, another mover/shaker in Christian media; both of whom won the “Freedom of Expression” awards from David Horowitz’s media group, the effluvia of which are greedily inhaled by the same right-wing bloggers who read, lather, repeat at Powerline. So…. so nothing, but there you go.

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