21
I miss the Hammer
Tom DeLay is dishin‘:
Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay may not be in a leadership position on Capitol Hill anymore, but that doesn’t mean he can’t weigh in on the current GOP leadership.
DeLay told Yeas & Nays that Republicans in Congress are “looking for something to believe in” and “they’re not getting it out of this Republican leadership. … The leadership just isn’t getting it.”
“They’re looking for some backbone,” said DeLay, who also chimed in on the 2008 election. He said the Republican party is “going to get our clocks cleaned in 2008″ and unequivocally said that “Hillary [Clinton] will be the next president.” Which ought to give DeLay’s newest projects, the Coalition for a Conservative Majority and a consulting firm called First Principles, LLC, plenty to do.
It’s always about the wingnut welfare for ol’ Tom. And hey, isn’t he supposed to be in jail by now?
The real jewel, though, comes later in the piece:
But, lest you think that The Hammer is about to start playing for the other team, he did poke fun at New York Times columnist — and favorite conservative punching bag — Paul Krugman: “I’d like to bitch-slap him.”
Civility! I guess bitch-slapping is part of the Biblical worldview Tom pledged to support when he got into gubmint!
TRex said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:18
Just wait. He’ll run for President in 2012.
Principal Blackman said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:23
Somewhat O/T, but is there a specific reason wingers go nuts at the mention of Paul Krugman? I mean, I know the general reasons–he writes for the New York Times and Liberal Commie Nazi Terrorist Propaganda Outfit, he points out that supply-side economics is, at best, a hoax, etc.–but is there something in particular he did that makes them hate him above all the other viable candidates?
atheist said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:27
but is there something in particular he did that makes them hate him above all the other viable candidates?
Unlike Brooks, Freidman, Tierney and Dowd, he’s not a toady, a sycophant, or a hypocrite. Maybe they sense that on some animal level, and hate him for it?
cleter said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:30
Who cares what that goatf***er Tom DeLay says?
OneMan said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:37
“they’re not getting it out of this Republican leadership. … The leadership just isn’t getting it.”
…maybe if they cruised the stalls at Union Station they’d get some. They could get tips from Larry Craig!
Vin Scully said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:42
How does “I’d like to bitch-slap him” fall under the category of “poking fun”?
Gern Blanston said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:46
I just saw Krugman speak in Austin last week, Im pretty sure he could take DeLay.
TRex said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:46
Somewhat O/T, but is there a specific reason wingers go nuts at the mention of Paul Krugman?
Same reason Ann Althouse and Ace o’ Spades hate Glenn Greenwald, because he’s smart and tells the truth. Makes wingnuts go all berserker.
“AAAAAAAAHHH!!! MELLLLLLTING!!”
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:47
Principle Blackman:
Yes.
They hate him because the truth has a known liberal bias, and Delay is nutzoid about that kind of thing.
Plus, he’s smarter than they are, which feeds into the Wingnuttian paradigm of us “liberals” thinking we’re smarter than they are.
(Gee, where would we ever get that idea? I blame THIS blog!)
D. Sidhe said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:48
“Playing for the other team”? Did they just suggest that civility makes you a sissy? No wonder he’s desperate to make “bitch-slap” threats.
And re the “bitch-slap” thing, it is my most sincere desire that Tom never gets laid again. I may start folding cranes so I can make that wish.
Righteous Bubba said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:52
goatf***er
Goatfinker?
Goatfiller?
Goatfolder?
Can’t be.
Goatfinger?
SamFromUtah said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:54
They hate him because the truth has a known liberal bias, and Delay is nutzoid about that kind of thing.
That (and what atheist et al have said) is it. I suspect it’s also that Krugman was being an outspoken non-stupid when the real hate-imprinting was going on, back in ‘02 and ‘03 - correct me if I’m wrong. That was the time when the wingnuts were ordered to hate France, then Germany, then all of Old Europe, then everybody else who agreed with any of them, then everybody else who didn’t disagree enough, etc.
Among wingnuts, I imagine it’s still de rigeur to hate the French even if they don’t remember why.
Snorghagen said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:54
It’s probably partly frustration. For years they’ve tried desperately hard to discredit or intimidate him, and they’ve never come close. And, like the other guys said, he’s smart and articulate.
Interestingly, Krugman was not seen as especially liberal until after Bush took office. There’s a good article on him here.
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:55
A friend of someone who once met Robert Novak told me his cousin’s sister-in-law had seen Tom Delay suck the dicks of several prominent conservative religious figures, in costume as Ted Kennedy.
I’m serious.
Teh Google Alert Police said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:56
Uhoh. Ann Althouse has been mentioned by TRex.
Expect more
drunken vlogslegal threats to follow.tb said,
November 21, 2007 at 2:59
Goatfister.
tb said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:00
I’m sorry I said that but there it is.
gbear said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:01
My wish for Tom is that someday he has a little peek at the cold, vast, timeless emptiness of the other side. He really does think there’s a comfy barcalounger and an eternity of servants and entertainment waiting for him there.
Nimrod Gently said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:02
GOOOOOOOOOOOAT FIINNNNNNNNNNNNNGERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
cleter said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:03
I suspect my esteemed colleague Mr Rex is correct, and that goatf***er DeLay will be one of the many True Believers who will run in 2012, arguing that the GOP was pummelled in 2008 because the nominee Wasn’t! Conservative! Enough!
Gotta admire the little goatf***er, getting in on the 2008 blame game early.
Principal Blackman said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:04
For years they’ve tried desperately hard to discredit or intimidate him, and they’ve never come close.
But over at Blogs for Bush…erm, I mean Blogs for Great Success!, they always refer to him as a “discredited economist.” And they wouldn’t call him discredited if they hadn’t, like, thoroughly discredited him, right? They wouldn’t ever confuse their inner monologue with objective reality, would they? Not that group of well-adjusted people!
cleter said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:06
“So, Goatfinger, I suppose you expect me to talk…”
“No, Mr Bond, I expect you to DIE!!! Bgnah-AH-AH!! NAAAAAH!!”
lame man said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:06
Let’s not forget another example of DeLay’s Godliness:
“I said a little prayer before I actually did the fingerprint thing, and the picture. And my prayer was basically: ‘Let people see Christ through me. And let me smile.’ [...]
He’s kinda like a cartoon character, isn’t he?
tb said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:08
AHA! AH-HAHAHAHAHAH! HA! Haha. Ha. Hem.
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:12
Tom Delay is a goat-effing slut-whore power-c**t of epic proportions.
You really don’t need to know anything else.
Saul said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:15
Tom Delay is a great American leader and a patriot who tells it as it is. Too bad he isn’t running for President, I would vote for him in a heartbeat.
gbear said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:17
Too bad that the ‘like it is’ that Tom talks about sucks donkey doo.
Tim said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:18
I’ll take Delay’s bitch-slap and raise him a kick in his nuts !
Miller said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:18
…and favorite conservative punching bag — Paul Krugman
Actually, they hate him because he’s not a punching bag. Punching bags don’t hit back. As evidence, I submit the Krug’s takedown of David Brooks from last week.
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:20
I saw Tom Delay personally, no shit, tell Chris Matthews how much respect he had for Barney Frank.
I can’t believe that would play well with Delay’s base.
J— said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:20
You’re slipping, Saul.
First comes “shalom,”
then comes “genltemen,”
then comes trolling till you pull your putamen.
Saul said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:21
Republicans need a new Contract with America for 2008. If they pledge to govern by the same Conservative principles that they governed with after the Gingrich Revolution of 1994 the Republicans will take both the Presidency and both Houses of Congress.
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:22
I’d enjoy watching Tom Delay get the crap beaten out of him by an angry gay woman.
Pay-Per-View material, I’m not kidding.
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:24
I wonder if the GOP’s new contract would include anything about having their Press Secretary lie about the involvement of the top 5 governmental leaders’ exposing a CIA agent who was working on IraNian nukes.
That’s an “N” for retards. They’re the ones we haven’t bombed yet.
tb said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:24
If I were Tom Delay I’d start wearing a cup.
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:25
You don’t need a cup if you’ve had your nuts removed. Duh.
Arky - Cthulusexual said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:26
If I were looking at a stretch in the pen, I’d shut up about bitches.
tb said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:26
Sold to the butcher, rather.
cleter said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:27
Uh, dude…they DID govern by those principles. That’s why the country is a mess. People are wise to so-called GOP “principles” now. That’s why your party is now largely known for its incompetence and goatf***ing. I don’t think drawing attention to goatf***ers of old, like Gingrich, is really the route you want to take. But hey, what do I know? I’m just a dumbass who thought Bush wouldn’t be a very good “president,” and who thought the Iraq War was kind of a bad idea. So don’t listen to me. Listen to your Wise Council of Sage Goatf***ers. That’s worked great for you guys so far.
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:28
If I were Tom Delay, I’d start wearing a Kryptonite butt-plug.
Saul said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:31
The new Contract with America should pledge these things.
1. Secure our borders.
2. Declare English the National language.
3. Defend and promote Traditional American Values.
4. Abolish the IRS and replace the income tax with a national sales tax.
5. Health Care Reform using the free market and individual choice.
6. Social Security Reform but creating personal private accounts.
7.Balance the Federal Budget.
8. Aggressively fight and win the war on terror.
That Contract with America would be unbeatable!
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:32
Romney for POTUS!
Because the evangelicals will love them some Mormon detail as it comes out during the endless general election season we’re faced with.
Some say, cleter, that I’m just a provincial rural Midwesterner with a terminal case of the dumb-ass, but I know a lot of GOP voters who have had it up to their necks with this bunch.
Even with HRC, it should be a pretty fun election night, especially if my own personal prediction comes true and the economy is in the crapper by Nov. ‘08.
tb said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:32
They already had their chance to do all those things, numbnuts. They ran the entire show for 6 years and didn’t do shit. They’re done.
Snorghagen said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:37
I didn’t know that.
Well, in that case Krugman ain’t shit. He may as well just move into a dumpster right now and get it over with. When you’ve lost the respect of Mark Noonan, you’ve lost it all.
Saul said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:37
Our party needs a Great Leader to actively promote and articulate those Conservative principles to the American People. A man like Fred Thompson or Tom Tancredo.
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:38
Precisely, tb. They had 6 YEARS worth of absolute power, and they couldn’t do anything but make their own prophecy come true: Government isn’t the solution to problems, it IS the problem.
I can’t imagine less than 10 House seats and 4 in the Senate. And that’ assuming HILLARY will be the nominee.
If Obama or Edwards is the candidate, and provided the vaunted Clinton machine won’t take their ball and go home, it could be a headline-grabbing landslide.
The only wild card is a terrorist attack, which no doubt Cheney is enabling as I type. They’re evil, but they’re not stupid.
America said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:38
saul,
before we start talking new contract, there are some things we need to settle from the old one. Have your people call my people and we can work out something. I’d hate this thing to turn ugly.
Cheers!
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:39
Tancredo for POTUS! A true leader, in every sense of the racist word!
BTW, what are his policies on other stuff?
noen said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:40
Paul Krugman: “I’d like to bitch-slap him.”
I think we’ve got a video of an RNC slap fest somewhere.
Tom Delay Bitch Slap Party
Tom Delay has that far away goofy looking grin on his face that makes me think his IQ is hovering right around 85 or so.
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:42
I see Fred “Sleepy” Thompson has dropped to half Paul’s polls in NH, where people tend to pay attention.
Funniest poll number I’d seen in months.
Krassen said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:44
John O.
Explain to me this thing that the South evangelicals have with Mormons. Isn’t it the same Jesus, we are talking here? Can the difference in packaging be so important to them? I mean, sure you may like silver iPods better than white iPods, but if you get white iPod from Santa would you send it back? That’s just puzzling…
Saul said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:45
Tom Tancredo’s other policies.
1. A Human Life Amendment to the Constitution banning both abortion and euthanasia.
2. A Federal Constitutional Amendment banning same sex marriage.
3. Abolish the IRS and replace the income tax with a national sales tax.
4. Prevent Iran from developing nukes.
5. Eventual regime change in Iran by supporting Secular Democratic dissidents inside Iran.
Go to http://www.ontheissues.org and read Tancredo’s voting record.
pedestrian said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:46
I’ll bet that in the end saul will secretly for Hillary, if only to spare what is left of his poor abused head from having to defend the president for another four years.
Thats what you think about, sometimes late at night, eh saul? Hillary Clinton with allthe power. Yeah, look at her, she’s wearing thigh high Condi boots and carrying a big thick riding crop… she doesn’t give a shit about family values. Go on, pull that lever, bad boy, you know how good it feels to be real bad… wait, what am I saying, saul isn’t old enough to vote.
Gary Ruppert said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:47
The fact is, Tom Delay is far more moral than any liberal, and less biased about reality and the truth. Truth to liberals is like holy water to vampires, and also, you liberals must admit that God does not like you. He likes us, here, in the heartland.
tb said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:47
Corrected.
Snorghagen said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:48
I think that’s his mug shot. Seriously.
A couple years ago, around the time the he was indicted, the Austin Chronicle quoted some local politico describing DeLay’s demeanor during a press conference: “He was grinnin’ like a possum eating shit”
Saul said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:49
The fact is that stopping illegal immigration is the most decisive issue of our times.
tb said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:49
You wish.
mikey said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:49
AAAaarrrrrgggghhhh.
The volume of pie consumption has now officially surpassed the volume of teh snark.
I guess I’ll just mosey along now…
mikey
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:50
Krassen, I’m a very devout JohnOist, so I can’t claim, nor will I, any expertise in the matter.
I just hear tell in evangelical circles that they find Mormonism um…er…cultish, to put it mildly. And in some cases even anti-Jesus, for some reason.
Plus, the whole religion is barely 200 years old. You aren’t going to get any street cred amongst the God-people with that kind of record.
Saul, ya gonna vote for Romney if he’s the nominee?
Ah, never mind.
So do we have any SANE Christian fundamentalists out here who can enlighten us?
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:53
mikey, I’m sorry again.
I feel like the boredom, which I share, is all my fault.
It’s hard to make these morons funny in the end. Which is why I come here, but beating a dead post horse only has so much longevity.
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:53
Saul said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:31
The new Contract with America should pledge these things.
Chickenhawk cowards should STFU.
Snorghagen said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:53
I think that’s called a contradiction in terms.
Saul said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:56
I absolutely would vote for Mitt Romney if he was my party’s nominee. Mormons have been called the African Americans of the Republican Party because 90% of them vote Republican in every election. In Utah a very solidly Republican stronghold Mormons make up 62% of the population. In the 2004 Presidential election Bush carried Utah by 72% of the vote. The highest margin of any state. The Mormons are a very loyal Republican voting bloc we need them.
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:57
At least some Christian fundamentalists keep it to themselves, to their credit, confident in the understanding that the rest of us are going to Hell.
Sure, it a rather generous version of “sane,” but ya go wit’ what ya got.
tb said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:57
Some days all you can do is write about kicking people in the nuts. That’s just the way it is.
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:58
Thanks, Saul.
*yawn* Surprising, honest. Wait ’til he makes you wear special underwear.
*YAWN*
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
November 21, 2007 at 3:59
I’ve been to Utah a number of times. Each time, I’ve said to myself: Damn, look at all the African Americans!
I’ll be going home to D.C. for Thanksgiving, and I’ll be wondering why D.C. can’t be more like Salt Lake City.
MzNicky said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:01
So okay, show of hands: Who wants to bitch-slap Tom “Bug-man” DeLay into the next lifetime?
Some people just never do fucking disappear already like they should, as they would if they had any sense of self-worth whatsoever. (Newt Gingrich also comes to mind.) The chapter in Al Franken’s last book about DeLay’s shenanigans in the Mariana Islands alone is enough to make any actual sentient being never want to hear this loathesome creature’s name again, let alone any expression of anything his reptilian brain may conceive of.
Fozzetti said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:01
“I said a little prayer before I actually did the fingerprint thing” Delay quoted from the bible, too, after the tsunami. Real class.
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:02
You know one question I always like to ask the God-people?
If you’re so sure we’re going to get it bad when we die, us semi-to-non believers, why are you so worried about us while we’re all alive?
Could it be your convictions are lighter than they seem? Isn’t it all going to be dealt with in The End?
Or are you not REALLY sure, so have to hedge your bets here on Earth?
Fozzetti said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:03
Or was it Gingrich?
Doctorb Science said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:03
You know, a lot of these fundamentalists with the alcoholic backstories (and not just some twelve-martini-drinking daughter-ignorer, but some really awful stuff) made me think “oh well, I suppose if it’s a choice between trying to smoke a fabric softener sheet or being an annoying religious guy at least he’s just an annoying religious guy”. But I really think the world would be a slightly better place if The Hammer had just continued to be some Bukowski character instead of getting his shit together and becoming a right-wing politician.
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:04
What I’m sayin’ is that if I was as sure as the God-people like Delay, and Saul, I wouldn’t get all red-assed about anything these anti-God Satanist people were doing now, since the world death rate is holding steady at 100%.
pedestrian said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:05
I understand that you would vote for Mitt Romney as president, saul, but the question is, is he going to burn in hell for all eternity? Oh, I forgot, you referred all theology questions to:
http://christiananswers.net/evangelism/beliefs/mormonism.html
Saul said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:09
In case you don’t already know I am a Jewish Rabbi. My Congregation calls me Rabbi Saul.
Snorghagen said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:10
Saul isn’t religious; he’s probably not even a conservative. He’s pretty obviously just a kid fucking around. Anyone trying to engage him is probably arguing with a 15-year-old.
Saul said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:11
Check out http://www.ontheissues.org/Tom_Tancredo.htm
Snorghagen said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:11
But I will say this for him - he sure does love that pie.
tb said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:12
OT, but I hope everyone caught Goldstain minion Dan Collins’ epic meltdown over the last couple of days. Basically he took a bunch of meds and googled some woman he hasn’t seen in 25 years, then posted her personal information and called her a drunken whore on PW. When someone dared object he went screaming apeshit, posting hundreds of incoherent comments at tbogg’s, John Swift’s and elsewhere. I’m surprised there hasn’t been any mention of it on SN, because it was right up there with freakouts past by Tacitus, Ace, and Goldstain himself.
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:12
Whoa, Saul! Doesn’t that mean you reject the whole “Jesus as Savior” thing out of hand?
It’s a serious question. I’m not a big fan of organized religion, except as it relates to the Power of Mythology.
Saul said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:13
I’ll be back in a bit nature suddenly calls!
Doctorb Science said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:14
I don’t know, man. I think a lot of them are genuinely worried that by not living up to their beliefs, you’re screwing yourself over. I also think that a lot of them are genuinely looking forward to all the Wicked Heathens going to hell. And they’re all like “I’ll see you in hell — from heaven!” because their idea of eternal happiness is leaning over the edge of a fluffy cumulus humilis so they can get a good view of what’s going on in the Lake of Unending Pain and Suffering That You Deserve You Wicked Bad Person You.
What confuses me a bit, though, are the Jehova’s Witnesses. They apparently believe that only 144,000 people get to go to heaven, presumably all (or at least most) of them Jehova’s Witnesses, and yet they keep going out and trying to recruit new members. Now that’s some selflessness right there. Or maybe a bad grasp of basic probability.
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:14
tb, I take exception to that!
At least half my comments about Dan were coherent! No matter whose blog was hosting them!
It was truly hilarious. Even the righttards were horrified at what he’d done, and eventually he yanked it, and blamed everyone else for propogating it.
Me thinks he still burns a candle for the poor woman.
SamFromUtah said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:15
…DeLay will be one of the many True Believers who will run in 2012, arguing that the GOP was pummelled in 2008 because the nominee Wasn’t! Conservative! Enough!
This sounds about right. I think that narrative is responsible for the pathetic and scary crop of Republican presidential hopefuls this time around - except for McCain, who’s in the running because it’s His Turn to be President, and Romney, who nobody can say where the fuck he’s coming from.
The Not! Conservative! Enough! blather started about 5 seconds after the ‘06 ass-whupping the Republicans took, if not before, but it’ll be way more extreme in ‘08. Whether it has any traction depends on whether the ‘08 president makes significant progress rolling back the Bush-era turdishness to the point that the public wholeheartedly supports them. Or if Giuliani manages to win, there might be some really fringey righties willing to listen to it after awhile.
I’ll be going home to D.C. for Thanksgiving, and I’ll be wondering why D.C. can’t be more like Salt Lake City.
I’ll trade you Temple Square for the Smithsonian!
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:17
Doc Science:
But that’s exactly my point. Why isn’t the satisfaction of watching us all burn in eternal flame, like JFK’s, enough?
I say if you have to pile on us heathens while we’re alive, you’re not a true believer.
Arky - Cthulusexual said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:19
Yes, that is Tom’s mug shot. He looks like a deer that’s been chowing on locoweed about five seconds before it gets mowed down by a semi. Either that or the guy who hangs around the playground, just staring, and creeping everyone the hell out.
I do love the fact he’s teamed up with Ken Blackwell. Keep all the crooks in one place, I say.
Superman is in prison? At least it would be faster than a speeding bullet, but the more powerful than a locomotive part might give Tommy a wide stance for the rest of his life.
Fozzetti said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:21
OT but IMPORTANT! World O’Crap are “asking which beloved holiday classic you’d like us to defile for you?” At the moment, Miracle on 34th St (or whatever its called) is ahead.
Fozzetti said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:22
“Rabbid Saul” or Rabbit Saul”?
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:22
No, no, Superman’s dick would be repelled by the Kryptonite butt-plug. Instant flaccidity, in Superman’s case.
But everyone else’s won’t.
Doctorb Science said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:25
Well yeah, that’s your point. But the first part, that some people think “hey it would be really bad for all those people if they died without the benefit of MY religion,” I think they’ve at least got the courage of their convictions, or however you want to put it. Imagine that you saw someone doing something obviously self-destructive and dumb, but then also imagine you grew up surrounded by creepy statues of a blood-covered guy being tortured to death, and also he’s constantly watching you, even when you’re in the bathroom. You’d probably be a little freaked out about everyone else’s behavior too. And not just things like injustice and exploitation, but also things like someone not saying the words right.
Doctorb Science said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:26
Oh yeah, plus he was a zombie for a while too.
mikey said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:32
If you’re serving a bullet or less, it ain’t on the table.
But if you’ve got ten years or more, you’re gonna have to think about it.
Are you gonna fuck or get fucked?
Much as the macho stories wanna forget this part, for every pitcher there is at least one catcher.
Catching IS a survival stratagy. If you give it up, you don’t have to fight, and you’re gonna get your needs met.
But if you’re a fighter, you might not have to give it up, but you’re gonna have to find another way to get all the shit you need to get. And you’re gonna need to find a bitch - you might as well.
I never had to serve out a multi-year, just some months here and there. But if you’re going in to serve out some hard time, you need to figure out your strategy. If you’re gonna pitch, you’re gonna need to fight, and you’re gonna get cut, and it’s gonna be hard for at least a couple years before you can make your rep.
If you’re gonna catch, you’re gonna get handed around and treated kinda harshly, but you’re not gonna have to fight for basic shit like dope and smokes and noodles and shit.
The worst of it is the last week before going inside. I’ve had some friends so terrified, so broken down before their turn-in date, and there’s nothing you can do but put some money on their books and promise them you’ll take care of their shit outside.
You do your time like you get born. Alone, and philosophically, if not actually, naked..
mikehy
John O said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:34
Off to bed, ladies and gents, and Saul.
Would love to stay longer, but I gotta show up for work, even on Friday.
Y’all have a good time now, y’hear?
Rufus said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:36
“A friend of someone who once met Robert Novak told me his cousin’s sister-in-law had seen Tom Delay suck the dicks of several prominent conservative religious figures, in costume as Ted Kennedy.”
Yeah, I saw that Kubrick film.
M. Bouffant said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:37
Tom Delay at work & play.
kosher ombudsman said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:43
You people let that pass? Saul, no congregation calls its’ Rabbi by his/her first name. Rabbi Saul? hah.
Righteous Bubba said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:45
Catching IS a survival stratagy.
Meet Donny the Punk.
http://www.jimgoad.net/am4pdf/donny.pdf
D. Sidhe said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:49
But that’s exactly my point. Why isn’t the satisfaction of watching us all burn in eternal flame, like JFK’s, enough?
Oh, it’s plenty. Believe me, that keeps them warm at night. But harassing people while demonstrating how Godly one can be is also a rush, so why not indulge?
Really, if you ask them why they can’t just wait for God to sort it out, they will tell you that it’s because they want to save us from that fate, because they are such good people they care about us.
But I’m betting they’d be horrified at the notion of actually having us sodomites and secular humanists and godless types in their heaven, redeemed or otherwise.
I mean, think about it though. If I had the chance to give certain assholes I know the Heimlich, I would do so gleefully and with enthusiasm. Not only would I possibly be saving their lives, meaning they’d owe me, but I’d also have the chance of breaking their ribs! Win/win! So too preaching at the sinners.
M. Bouffant said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:52
Since you asked: Mormons, among other things, believe that Jesus & God (real name: Elohim) are two physically separate beings, that Elohim had real, physical sex w/ Mary to create Jesus, that Lucifer is Jesus’s younger(?) brother, that each MAN (after death) has the potential to become a god, w/ his own domain & many wives, who are busy sexing it up w/ the god/man, & giving birth to spirit children that will then populate planets in human form. Also that Elohim was once a human (Adam, I believe, hard to keep all this straight). And that Elohim & Jesus live on a planet called Kolob. And to get into Heaven (or Kolob, again I’m not sure if they’re the same place) you need a secret handshake & the password (which is “Pay Lay Ale,” dunno how “Ale” is pronounced). Most of their “secret, can’t have you Gentiles in our Temple” ceremonies are adaptations of the Masonic rites of founder Joseph Smith’s day.
There’s other good stuff, but it doesn’t quite go along w/ the regular Bible, to say the least. So the regular fundies aren’t big fans of this stuff.
Ted said,
November 21, 2007 at 4:55
Too bad they’re not 15% of the country’s population, huh?! Ehheehehehehe heh.
And go take a political science class on US presidential election math. With our winner-take-all electoral college, every vote in a state beyond what’s needed to have a majority for a candidate is useless. Doesn’t matter if Romney won 51% or 98% of the votes in Utah LaLaLand. Doesn’t help him in Ohio
atheist said,
November 21, 2007 at 5:12
A very strange and interesting tale, Bubba. Thanks.
atheist said,
November 21, 2007 at 5:22
Donny’s judgementalism toward Feminist rape survivors is a bit weird, however. It is as if, because he judges himself to have overcome being raped himself, he doesn’t respect women who were raped, but don’t feel like they have overcome it.
Ted said,
November 21, 2007 at 5:25
It’s great stuff. Right up there with Xenu and the soul-trapping machines.
Arky - Cthulusexual said,
November 21, 2007 at 5:34
Thanks for your explanation M. Bouffant. I was raised RC and all I can say is the CoLDS should sue the estate of L. Ron Hubbard for copyright infringement. Wow.
I’d add that Jesus supposedly stopped by North America after he rose from the dead, becoming the first person to gather frequent flyer miles. Anyway, he passed on a lot of wisdom to the Native Americans. Pity he didn’t warn them to chase off funny looking guys who didn’t speak the language.
Clearly I should just not discuss religion. Period.
Saul said,
November 21, 2007 at 5:35
Shalom gentlemen.
Rightwingsnarkle said,
November 21, 2007 at 5:37
Joseph Smith = L. Ron Hubbard, but with a better haircut.
Every thing I know about mormonism, I learned on an episode of South Park. And it was plenty.
What a fucking scam.
Smut Clyde said,
November 21, 2007 at 5:37
On the subject of Mormonism, watch John Safran vs God if you get the chance. There’s a segment of Episode 5 where Safran goes door-to-door in Salt Lake City — getting people out of bed at 8 on a weekend morning so he can brandish his copy of ‘Origin of Species’ at them and ask whether they’d ever thought about converting to atheism.
MrWonderful said,
November 21, 2007 at 5:45
To vaguely quote Sam Harris, “As soon as you read about Mormonism, you know it’s bogus.” Amen, bro. I wait for the day when someone–Republican candidate, journalist, whoever–says to Mitt Romney, “Come on. Seriously. Do you actually *believe* this shit?” I wait, yes, but I’m not holding my precious breath.
Please, people: do NOT respond to the Sauls of this world, or at least of this blog. They are (imagine italics) agents provocateurs, but as such, they are (imagine italics), cretins. Period.
(Lex) Skink Tyree (Azagthoth) said,
November 21, 2007 at 5:52
I must admit, I was pretty giggly when I found out that the “rapture” isn’t really in the Bible. It is a song on a Morbid Angel album though.
DeLay got into politics to subvert laws against pollution and emissions from chemical plants. He has no soul left to save, but some real chutzpah to talk so much about Jesus, who really is the most innocent bystander here in the entire parade of Teh Fundies. Yeah, google “Tarpon Springs Florida”, Stauffer Chemical, and “EPA Superfund Site” and some of my eco-rage will be more apparent. I know the wingnuts think I’m insane for thinking that chemical companies who bury radioactive waste in metal barrels that rust out and leak into the ground 500 yards from an elementary school are evil and should have to pay for their crimes. But if that’s insanity, I must say I feel better than those walking around afraid to express what they really feel.
DeLay’s got a lot of nerve. Entire families are dead from the industries he helped protect.
But check this out:
http://www.criticsrant.com/bb/reading_level.aspx
Sadly, No got a High School reading level rating, but Little Green Footballs apparently got college. Uh, I just figured something that fucked up belonged in a thread about Tom DeLay.
(Lex) Skink Tyree (Azagthoth) said,
November 21, 2007 at 5:54
Actually, the best link is from ChenZhen:
http://chenzhen.wordpress.com/2007/11/18/chamber-readability/#comment-8140
LGF: College
LGFWatch:College PostGrad
Anne Laurie said,
November 21, 2007 at 6:00
Hmm, 2012 was supposed to be Gingrinch’s Triumphant Comeback year. So, if Twisty Tom Delay is already looking for an electoral niche (in advance of his prison term, I assume), we all get to watch the ugly spectacle of The Newt and The Lizard in their no-holds-barred cage match. Of couse Newt has at least 100 pounds on DeLay, but Tom’s got the ferret-on-meth speed advantage. Not much of a consolation for the sane people among us, but at least we can hope that they’ll fatally wound each other in the process.
M. Bouffant said,
November 21, 2007 at 6:09
Well, the whole thing about Jesus In North America is pretty rich too. He came to visit the Lost Tribes of Israel, who rafted over ftom the Mid East about 600 B. C. At some point (nor sure if before or after J.’s visit) the tribes had a big war, the bad guys won, & Elohim cursed them w/ the “Mark of Cain” (non-white skin) which they can work off if they convert. Seriously. You could look it up. There are statements by Mormons that they have proof that convert’s skin is becoming more “whitesome & delightsome” over the generations.
And absolutely no archaeological evidence of these great steel, horse & oxen using civilizations.
People will believe anythng. And I think Romney’s been asked at least once “how much of it” he believes, he said he bought it all.
Snorghagen said,
November 21, 2007 at 6:12
The really, really Lost Tribes of Israel.
pedestrian said,
November 21, 2007 at 6:38
There’s a segment of Episode 5 where Safran goes door-to-door in Salt Lake City — getting people out of bed at 8 on a weekend morning so he can brandish his copy of ‘Origin of Species’ at them and ask whether they’d ever thought about converting to atheism.
Here ya go
Righteous Bubba said,
November 21, 2007 at 6:48
Donny’s judgementalism toward Feminist rape survivors is a bit weird, however.
He was a weird guy and is now dead. I can’t imagine having a head full of good and pure ideas after all that, and he obviously didn’t. His wikipedia entry has more links.
Krassen said,
November 21, 2007 at 6:51
M. Bouffant,
yeah, right… you are making all this shit up. Not that I know any of this, but what you are telling us is some supe-crazy shit, man…
Krassen said,
November 21, 2007 at 6:58
Well, let me say this:
If Romney buys all this shit, and if he is elected, then the “reality-based community(tm)” is in for whooole lotta trouble. As a card-carrying member I feel like we’ll be longing for the Bush years, when things made sense…
objectivelypro said,
November 21, 2007 at 7:03
which they can work off if they convert
Maybe that was Michael Jackson I saw in the Salt Lake City bus depot in 1987.
Righteous Bubba said,
November 21, 2007 at 7:04
Mormons, among other things, believe that…
…Joseph Smith knew a language called Reformed Egyptian. The other beliefs are all stupid, but no more stupid than a lot of stuff from a lot of religions, the bible being really fucking bogus in so many ways that it can’t be taken seriously except as metaphor.
In the story of Reformed Egyptian we have a simple and obvious con: there was no such language and Joseph Smith was caught bullshitting. It’s like basing a religion on crop circles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformed_Egyptian
Clem said,
November 21, 2007 at 7:31
I’d say it’s more like basing a religion on an obviously Photoshopped image of a crop circle that reads “Clem.”
Idea!
M. Bouffant said,
November 21, 2007 at 7:35
All available on the intarweb. And no more bogus than any other holy crap, but, as The Righteous One says, this crap can pretty much be disproved, as it is w/in the historical era. Indeed, Smith’s family apparently ran cons of various sorts, including something to do w/ treasure hunting. The L. Ron of his day.
How people can believe any of this crap for 30 seconds is beyond me. The evolutionary biologists may be right saying some of them are hard-wired for this crap.
the_millionaire_lebowski said,
November 21, 2007 at 7:45
I, for one, welcome our new single-syllable overlords.
D. Sidhe said,
November 21, 2007 at 8:09
I’ve long been convinced that a large part of the reason Mormons come in for more contempt than most other Christians is simply a matter of grandfathering. Sure, Christianity is based on a series of patently absurd stories you’re required to believe are factual, but it’s been around and mainstream long enough that even rational people feel no logical twinges professing their belief in it. When the Bible was written, the whole dragons and miracle cures and curses crap probably seemed like as good an explanation for stuff as anything else. By the time Mormonism was founded, the people writing it maybe should have known better, so clearly it’s stupid to believe that.
Snorghagen said,
November 21, 2007 at 8:11
M. Bouffant wrote:
I’ve always assumed that Smith was an especially plausible-seeming lunatic, but you may very well be right. You seem to know a lot more about these guys than I do.
I think the utter craziness of it actually helps. If you subscribed to a belief system that seemed semi-rational, you’d likely feel that you could analyze it without undermining your faith, making it easy to slip into skepticism. But if you converted to a totally whacked-out belief system, you’d always be aware that you could never question any of it without the whole thing seeming absurd. You’d have to believe absolutely or lose your faith absolutely.
But that begs the question of why anyone would convert to this mess in the first place.
Some Guy said,
November 21, 2007 at 8:29
http://www.conservapedia.com/Special:Statistics
Alright, who’s been search-bombing conservapedia? Gary, I’m looking at you.
noen said,
November 21, 2007 at 8:33
“It’s like basing a religion on crop circles.”
We have that. It’s called the “New Age” movement. Just for completeness, there are plenty of crazy beliefs on the left too.
Righteous Bubba said,
November 21, 2007 at 8:35
“New Age”
Rhymes with sewage.
Righteous Bubba said,
November 21, 2007 at 8:51
We have that. It’s called the “New Age” movement. Just for completeness, there are plenty of crazy beliefs on the left too.
Left and right don’t really have a whole lot of meaning when your referents are simply nuts. There’s a lot of black-helicopter crossover in the New Age, as folks like David Icke move from hippy-dippy crap to treating The Protocols of the Elders of Zion as “true” in some mutated (or not) sense.
Smut Clyde said,
November 21, 2007 at 8:58
It’s called the “New Age” movement.
I’ve never seen the New Age crowd as left-wing. The whole central uniting credo of New Agism is “It’s all about me“.
"Oh Stewardess, I Speak 'Nut" said,
November 21, 2007 at 9:34
The new Contract with America should pledge these things.
1.
Secure our borders.Demonize Spanish-speakers, but do not disturb corporate America’s supply of cheap labor.2.
Declare English the National language.Admit, finally, that changing San Francisco to “St. Francis” would be silly.3. Defend and promote Traditional American Values. Like
Newt Gingrich Ted Haggard Larry Craig Warren Jeffs??4.
Abolish the IRS and replace the income tax with a national sales tax.Just give any revenues left to the richest 1%.5. Health Care Reform using the free market and individual choice. Because it worked so well in the 19th century!
6.
Social Security Reform but creating personal private accounts.Gut Social Security. And abolish the Estate Tax.7.Balance the Federal Budget. Just like Reagan did. And Bush Sr. And Bush Jr. With a GOP Congress.
8. Aggressively fight and win the war on terror. Just like Reagan did. And Bush Sr. And Bush Jr.
That Contract with America would be unbeatable! (Just like Teh 90’s!)
Djur said,
November 21, 2007 at 9:44
Holy crap, a Mormon discussion and I’ve been missing out. I’m something of a buff, in that unlike most people slandering LDS I’ve actually read the various holy works, relevant histories and biographies, etc. rather than getting my information through orthodox Christian propaganda, South Park, &c. Thus, I can actually legitimately slander LDS. (Warning — you may want to preemptively tl,dr at this point.)
Smith was a necromancer and treasure-digger in his youth, and he came from a family somewhat predisposed toward mysticism and ecstatic, personal religion. There’s some evidence that suggests that the Book of Mormon itself was not originally intended to be a religious text, but rather a “recovered” romance of the natives without any particularly novel religious material.
Indeed, there’s nothing in the Book of Mormon which is outright heretical in terms of Christianity — it takes certain doctrinal stances, but none of them are very controversial in the context of the Protestantism of the times. The most obvious ideological stances are virulent anti-Masonic sentiment and the requisite slams on the hated priestcraft of the Popish religion. Even Jesus’ appearance in the New World is at most a slightly shocking addition to traditional Christian belief, without having any actual impact on the theology. (Jesus is substantially less active in the New World than in the Old World, mostly favoring omens and booming voices from on high.)
It was probably the combined influence of Smith’s credulous secretaries Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris (a buffoon of the highest water), along with the existing tendency of the Smith family to religious fervor, that led to Joseph’s little romance ending up as the basis for a new religious movement. Smith’s natural talents at storytelling and tendency toward deception, combined with a highly receptive audience, rather quickly resulted in a situation where he very likely could not have recanted — everyone he knew and loved would have rejected him, assuming that they’d even believe him.
Alec usually accuses me around this point of being duped by a huckster so charismatic that his skill reaches beyond the grave, but there’s certainly a quite human dimension to Joseph Smith, Jr. It’s hard to categorize him as a con man, and it’s even harder to categorize him as a lunatic. My personal preference is to simply note how successful he was at instituting an ultimately novel religious movement, one which in less than 200 years has become respectable enough for a candidate for the presidency to openly identify with. If that kind of whitewashing can occur in such a short time, even considering the enormous amount of documentary evidence we have of the religion’s founding and the obviously fabricated nature of its holy works, is it really a surprise that Jesus and Mohammad were able to do the same?
If you throw out the Book of Mormon (which, as I said, has little to no direct doctrinal meaning to the Church of Latter Day Saints), the theology of Mormonism is only implausible in comparison to orthodox Christianity if you’re coming from an implicitly orthodox Christian viewpoint — both of them contain rank injustice and laughable absurdity, and LDS actually does a bit better than its ancestor in that sense.
What I’ll say is that it’s rather absurd for any self-identified progressive to single out Romney’s religion for any particular criticism or ridicule that they wouldn’t apply equally to, say, Guiliani’s religion. And for both, the really important thing is that they’re repulsive fascist shitheels.
M. Bouffant said,
November 21, 2007 at 10:33
Oh, believe you me, I condemn them all, in the harshest terms possible. Not sure how practicing of a Catho Rudy the G is, other than keeping his boyhood friend the “Molesting Monsignor” on his payroll.
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
November 21, 2007 at 11:02
So why are there any female Mormons? What’s in it for them?
Johnny Coelacanth said,
November 21, 2007 at 11:33
“I’m surprised there hasn’t been any mention of it on SN”
Some of the Sadly Nauts are, um, allergic to Protein Wisdom. You can Google it.
Johnny Coelacanth said,
November 21, 2007 at 11:34
“So why are there any female Mormons? What’s in it for them?”
Subservience and a firm knowledge of their place in the world, i.e., beneath men.
Johnny Coelacanth said,
November 21, 2007 at 11:35
I mean, that’s the view from the Mormon standpoint.
Smut Clyde said,
November 21, 2007 at 12:01
the theology of Mormonism is only implausible in comparison to orthodox Christianity if you’re coming from an implicitly orthodox Christian viewpoint
So to sum up… it’s hard to see any reason to accept the Pauline epistles as part of the New Testament — as important as the reported words of Christ himself — while rejecting the Book of Mormon. Is that a fair summary? Except that one epileptic fantasist / con-man got there before the other.
I suppose you could reject the Book of Mormon on stylistic grounds… “chloroform in print” and all that. Written excruciatingly badly, in a clumsy pastiche of what the author thought the Grand Style should sound like. But Revelations is just as much a pastiche, written by some scribe in a darkened library as first-century slash-fic. Norman Cohn wrote somewhere that you can practically smell the lamp-oil coming off the pages.
But all this is exactly why atheists and agnostics need to take the piss out of the LDS. It’s a dirty job but no-one else can do it. Or at least, a fundamentalist believer in the inerrant Word of God is not able to criticise the amount of bullshit history in the Book of Mormon, or its fraudulent origins — not without being knocked over backwards by the sheer weight of beams in the eye.
Gundamhead said,
November 21, 2007 at 12:18
Well, thanks all for educating me about Mormonism. I think most religions are pretty silly but that’s just…damn. Sounds like a really bad (and pretentious) scifi novel. Yeah, I’d really like someone to ask Mittens if he REALLY believes this stuff.
Still not as fucked up as those Unification guys though.
Gundamhead said,
November 21, 2007 at 12:29
“And for both, the really important thing is that they’re repulsive fascist shitheels.”
Well said.
Smut Clyde said,
November 21, 2007 at 12:46
Meanwhile TBogg reports that the Moonie-Unificatory people are calling for tolerance towards the Mormons.
“Yes, they may be heretics, but at least they’re doctrinaire authoritarians, so we agree on the basic priorities“.
slippytoad said,
November 21, 2007 at 14:26
Yes, because the Federal Government convening an emergency session to interfere in the Terri Schiavo affair was such a winner for the GOP. Let’s rephrase that:
So how’s that one going for you?
Is that a Wedge issue I see? How pathetic! And did that wedge issue’s utility expire almost immediately after the 2004 election? Why, I think it did.
So, more tax breaks for the rich:
I think you also mention balancing the budget in one of your other unintentionally hilarious comments. Sorry, buddy. There is no way that line is selling again. Republicans are NOT helping balance the budget. What they are doing is the OPPOSITE of help.
Yes, because this is a serious concern to most Americans. And the Republicans have done such a good job keeping a lid on nukes held by lawless nations. Why, the Not-At-All Dictator Pervez Mushharf, who doesn’t imprison political dissidents and suspend elections, was totally hand-slapped for imposing martial law on his nation by dictator-coddling George W. Bush. And not only does he have nukes, he is almost certainly giving them away to all his buddies left and right. I mean, talk about a big fucking yawn. Pakistan had nukes years ago and they’re every bit as fundamentalist and anti-democratic as Iran. They just don’t have any fucking oil.
This one will go over well.
The Iraq war has brought a permanent END to American imperialism. In the history books, George W. Bush will serve as the book-end to the post WWII period, a sad and pathetic little coda to the once-robust leadership of the free world. Bush led a great and respected nation to war on the basis of a ridiculous lie. Tancredo wants to lead a great and respected nation to war on the basis of another ridiculous lie. But we aren’t that nation anymore and we have no clout. Even if, for some reason, an utter brick like Tancredo were imagining he would use the U.S.’ foreign policy clout to affect regime change in Iran, we aren’t that nation anymore either. Maybe you don’t get it — nobody is listening to us anymore. The world saw that we would put a fratboy jackoff like Bush in power and none of our institutions would put out a restraining hand to stop him. They aren’t going to have any time or money or attention for us anymore. The next President’s goal is going to be to convince the rest of the world that we aren’t the most dangerous country in it. Good luck getting back their trust to involve ourselves in any credible promotion of Democracy. I once again refer to Bush’s pathetic, utterly inexcusable embrace of Coup-To-Power Pervez. A. Fucking. Joke.
I think most Americans can already guess Tancredo’s voting record:
1. Homophobic.
2. Racist.
3. Corporation-hugging.
4. Constitution-shredding.
5. Stupid.
Saul, the Republicans are the biggest fucking joke of the century. I’m laughing right the fucking hell in your face.
spencer said,
November 21, 2007 at 14:49
In case you don’t already know I am a Jewish Rabbi. My Congregation calls me Rabbi Saul.
No you aren’t, and no they don’t. All the rabbis I’ve ever met have been well educated. You, OTOH, are barely literate.
dlauthor said,
November 21, 2007 at 14:59
He’s just differentiating himself from all those Theravada Buddhist Rabbis.
Some Guy said,
November 21, 2007 at 15:30
I like the national sales tax/no-IRS idea. I see no downside to it at all. Of course, we’ll have to disban that spiffy, expensive-as-hell military, because there’s no way in blue fucking hell we could possibly afford it. But, hey, rich people will be richer, so it all balances out.
US GDP* in 2006 was ~$13 trillion. The 2006 federal spending was $2.6 trillion ($400b over budget, btw) Let’s assume a massive 10% Federal Sales Tax, that still is a meager $1.3 trillion with which to run the Federal government, half of what’s required.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget,_2006
Look! Numbers!
Most states depend heavily on state sales tax for the bulk of their income, with side incomes from DMV fees and a few other things here and there, And most states would be bankrupt were it not for the Federal government sending money there way.
*GDP not exactly a fair number to start with, but I couldn’t find a “US national total of sales” easily, so it seemed like a decent second best.
Dhalgren said,
November 21, 2007 at 15:33
I’d pay to see Krugman and DeLay fight.
But what’s with his flack regarding Republicans without any backbone? That’s our line for the Dems?
Snorghagen said,
November 21, 2007 at 15:34
Thanks, Djur. This subject is something I’ve never known much about, but always found vaguely fascinating.
There’s some evidence that suggests that the Book of Mormon itself was not originally intended to be a religious text, but rather a “recovered” romance of the natives without any particularly novel religious material.
So your take was that Smith was initially planning on marketing a bogus recovered Native American romance, and things got out of hand? Interesting. In some ways that scenario is even stranger than Smith as an outright religious scam-artist or Smith as a lunatic.
From what little I do know about Mormon theology, it does strike me as exceptionally bizarre, even in the generally bizarre realm of religious belief. But this comment….
And for both (Romney and Giuliani), the really important thing is that they’re repulsive fascist shitheels.
…is one I fully agree with.
Gary Ruppert said,
November 21, 2007 at 16:01
http://www.conservapedia.com/Template:Examples_of_Liberal_Bias
a different mikey said,
November 21, 2007 at 16:01
Both Smith and his dad tried out various mythologies, mostly as fund raising ventures. Because he told different victims different stories the LDS have had to keep an eye out for the letters to elderly women that occasionally surface in upstate New York auctions. You’ve got to give it to him though he hit on a winner. Reformed Egyptian indeed. “Chloroform in print” nails it as to the style of the Book of Mormon.
For any one interested in reading more Krakauer’s ‘Storming Heaven’ is good and pretty easy reading. For a novel, I can recommend John Gardner’s last,’Mickleson’s Ghosts’ which has philosophy, sex, toxic waste and great Mormon villains. And ghosts. I finished it the day he died and while he seems a little dated now back in the day I thought he was great.
dlauthor said,
November 21, 2007 at 16:33
Hi Gary.
(Lex) Skink Tyree (Azagthoth) said,
November 21, 2007 at 16:46
Honestly, if they hadn’t had enough open land to run from the angry mobs, the mormons never would’ve made it. No way. And if we stil had murderous mobs, the Scientologists never would’ve made it. All backwards somehow.
g said,
November 21, 2007 at 16:53
regime change in Iran
Didn’t we already do that one, oh, acouple of times at least?
Gary Ruppert said,
November 21, 2007 at 17:00
Your bias is factually incorrect, we must stop hating Bush and conservitves and the real Americans to get to the truth about our freedom. Mormons and Catholics are not real Christians. Everybody knows that.
slippytoad said,
November 21, 2007 at 17:12
You know what’s amazing about that link. I looked at the statements it was giving, and most of them weren’t real “examples.” Here are a few, erm, examples of what I mean.
First thing I noticed was that none of the examples were attributed quotes in and of themselves. So like Inigo Montoya, I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
But, I thought, surely those footnotes pointed to the source of examples of the examples. I took items 1 and 4 as test cases and found myself at the footnotes section. And the footnotes would in a correctly-annotated scholarly text lead to outside sources confirming the assertions therein.
But footnotes [1] and [2] start with the header http://www.conservapedia.com.
In other words, conservapedia asserts the existence of liberal bias, and points back to conservapedia as a source of the truth of that information.
Now filled with morbid curiosity I moused over the rest of the references on that page. THREE external references in all of that. Here they are:
When it comes to profanity, the Left Can’t Help itself from that bastion of journalistic neutrality, Newsbusters.
An SFGate article about creationism being taught in schools
The Senate condemning the General BetrayUS ad.
The rest of the links point back to conservapedia.com. I haven’t bothered to follow them because I’m sure I’ll get sucked into a circular link-fest of self-referential nonsense. If you expect conservapedia to be taken seriously as a source of . . . information . . . about anything, you might recommend to the editors that they develop some guidelines for standards of research that aren’t a joke.
You might also have to overcome the growing realization that conservapedia readers have a fixation on certain topics that are of less than pressing importance to the rest of us.
Mister DNA said,
November 21, 2007 at 17:35
Please, oh please, Sadly No!, tell us you’re going to do a takedown of this Janet Folger column at Wingnut Daily.
Righteous Bubba said,
November 21, 2007 at 17:39
this Janet Folger column
I can see the altruism and the perversion!
Tender Mercenaries said,
November 21, 2007 at 17:56
Janet Folger column at Wingnut Daily.
Wow. A veritable Thanksgiving feast! Much like Thanksgiving dinner, one doesn’t know where to start. I’ll take the mashed potatoes of insanity — the form of the article is a letter from a prison in the near future, a prison opened by Hillary to hold Christians. But I can’t leave out the pumpkin pie of what-the-fuckness — Mike Huckabee is the only one who can save American Christians from this dystopia. Please ma’am, give us more!
Rightwingsnarkle said,
November 21, 2007 at 17:58
“Christianity is based on a series of patently absurd stories”
Well, I’d agree that they’re stories, myths, human attempts to make sense and find meaning in a large and mostly incomprehensible universe.
Elements of many christian stories - virgin birth, redemptive death and resurrection, etc. are similar to other such stories from other cultures. Joseph Campbell popularized these ideas via Bill Moyers.
To me, the craziest part of christianity is the belief that these stories are somehow unique to it, or that while other cultures may have stories with similar themes, the christian ones are true.
I think that’s fucked up.
Robert M. said,
November 21, 2007 at 18:20
Oh, but it worked out so well before! After all, the current belligerent revolutionary government is in no way the result of backlash against the repressive rule of the CIA’s good buddy the Shah.
Sorry, teh funny has deserted me today, leaving only teh outrage at our slow stumble toward war in the Middle East. You know, again.
Cletus D. Bubba said,
November 21, 2007 at 18:31
The new Contract with America should pledge these things.
1. Secure our borders. (Aka shoot wetbacks)
2. Declare English the National language. (Taser dark people for speaking funny)
3. Defend and promote Traditional American Values. (Lynch some niggers)
4. Abolish the IRS and replace the income tax with a national sales tax.
5. Health Care Reform using the free market and individual choice. (Allow the poor to die)
6. Social Security Reform but creating personal private accounts. (Allow the elderly to eat dog food)
7.Balance the Federal Budget. (Bomb some more sand niggers)
8. Aggressively fight and win the war on terror. (Bomb the rest of the darkies and sand niggers)
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!11!
cleter said,
November 21, 2007 at 18:38
Hillary is going to open prisons to hold Christians? And Huckabee is going to travel back in time with his cyborg pal Mitt, to stop her? That sounds cool. Is James Cameron directing?
Arky - Cthulusexual said,
November 21, 2007 at 18:42
I for one am glad I’ll be long dead before a Sciencefictionoligist runs for office.
Righteous Bubba said,
November 21, 2007 at 18:52
Let us not forget the ceremonial crowning of Sun Myung Moon.
Johnny Coelacanth said,
November 21, 2007 at 18:57
Aggh! I read a World Net Daily column. Now my brain’s polluted. It didn’t help that I was looking at convervapedia just before that. Now I’m more confused than ever. Is Hitlery the biggest threat to Christianinaty EVAR or is it the Islamofascists?
Righteous Bubba said,
November 21, 2007 at 19:07
Is Hitlery the biggest threat to Christianinaty EVAR or is it the Islamofascists?
Well she can’t be the Anti-Christ because she doesn’t have a penis and GAAAHHH!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN MY OFFICE??? DON’T SHOOT!!! DON’T SH–
Mister DNA said,
November 21, 2007 at 19:19
Huckabee will no doubt be aided by none other than Chuck Norris.
Rightwingsnarkle said,
November 21, 2007 at 19:33
That Folger lady is one whacky broad.
The money quote: “When they came for the Philadelphia 11, I didn’t speak up, because I was from Cleveland.”
Dr.BDH said,
November 21, 2007 at 19:35
There’s some evidence that suggests that the Book of Mormon itself was not originally intended to be a religious text, but rather a “recovered” romance of the natives without any particularly novel religious material.
Anyone for a Church of Jacqueline Susann?
J— said,
November 21, 2007 at 19:40
That Folger lady is one whacky broad.
And her Faith 2 Action site has some quality kookery, especially for you Guar on Christmas fans.
g said,
November 21, 2007 at 19:51
Had we nominated Huckabee to run against Hillary, the stark difference between the two would have brought voters out in droves.
Oh, man, yes!! But I guess the droves must have been busy during the primaries.
So — a guy who is too far to the right to get a good turnout in the primaries is gonna get a good turnout in the general election? Explain that, Janet.
That letter is just a tearjerker, too! Of course, it will indeed be easier to lock people up for “thought crimes” due to the damage the Bush administration has done to our system of justice, habeus corpus and all that - maybe ole Janet and her buddies should work on fixing THAT, what do you think?
Snorghagen said,