31
Fun With Other People’s Religions (Pt. 1)
We think we know which Beth this is, but there are a lot of right-wing Beths running around these days, and each is liable to turn up at about a dozen overlapping blogs, with Beths commenting on posts by different Beths, and so forth.
This particular Beth, in any case, has found a new way to oppose the International Muslim Conspiracy — i.e., to assist America’s permanent and unchanging right-wing moron demographic in blasting irrational, pinheaded anger at everyone in the world except themselves, with the prime religious target, this time, being Muslims instead of Jews (or Catholics and The Vatican).
Well, it’s not exactly a new way, but Beth shows extra brio by skipping over the actual Koran and ‘exposing’ out-of-context passages from other Islamic religious texts. For instance, here’s the latest proof of the depravity of all Muslims, yanked OMG-style from a Sunni hadith, i.e. a collection of oral commentary considered uncanonical by Shi’a:
Myth Fact Islam: Religion of peace. Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 267: Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “Khosrau will be ruined, and there will be no Khosrau after him, and Caesar will surely be ruined and there will be no Caesar after him, and you will spend their treasures in Allah’s Cause.” He called, “War is deceit’.
Tafsir
Myth Fact Islam: Religion of peace. Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 392: Narrated Abu Huraira:
While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, “Let us go to the Jews” We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, ”If you embrace Islam, you will be safe.You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle.”
Tafsir
These are indeed bone-chilling statements, especially if you’re Khosrau (?) or a devout Jew in Arabia circa 630 AD. Of course, since 9/11 we’ve all become Khosrau (?) and/or a devout Jew in Arabia circa 630 AD, or something. Or perhaps we’re Caesar. But let’s just leave that one alone for the time being.
As with all known members of this particular interlocking axis of whoopingly-insane right-blogs (who are these people, and why are they taking up half the Internet?) there’s stunningly irrational stuff everywhere you look, such that it’s impossible to quote one thing over another without feeling like you’ve trod a diamond into the carpet. One strongly suspects, for instance, that the ‘email received from a Gold Star Mother’ referenced at the above link is actually one of those mysterious Snopes-style emails that arrive with 150K of quoted text saying “OMG U WONT BELEIVE THIS 1 FORWARD IT 2 EVERY1 U KNOW!!!” and with two hundred AOL and Wal-Mart Connect addresses in the cc bar. It certainly wouldn’t be unprecedented.
And yet, one good turn deserves another. It is perhaps time the world knew the truth about so-called Christians and their global conspiracy to dominate the world, et cetera, and for our first exposé of this spawning-religion of terror-criminals and criminal terrorists, we turn to the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, a work roughly contemporaneous with the Gospel of Luke that enjoyed great popularity in the Middle Ages, despite not making the cut for the actual Bible. Here we learn that the young Jesus was a child murderer:
| Myth | Fact |
| Christianity: Religion of Love. | Infancy Gospel of Thomas, Chapter 4, Lines 1-4 :
Narrated Thomas: Next, he was going through the village again and a running child bumped his shoulder. Becoming bitter, Jesus said to him, “You will not complete your journey.” Immediately, he fell down and died. Then, some of the people who had seen what had happened said, “Where has this child come from so that his every word is a completed deed?” And going to Joseph, the parents of the one who had died found fault with him. They said, “Because you have such a child, you are not allowed to live with us in the village, or at least teach him to bless and not curse. For our children are dead!” |
| Apocrypha |
WTF?! Truly the essence of Christianity is here revealed, indicting all followers of this lunatic terror cult.
| Myth | Fact |
| Christianity: Religion of Love. | Infancy Gospel of Thomas, Chapter 5, Lines 1-6 :
Narrated Thomas: And taking his child aside, he warned him, saying, “Why are you doing these things? These people are suffering and they hate us and cause trouble for us.” Then, Jesus said, “I know that the words I speak are not mine. Nevertheless, I will be silent for your sake, but these people will bear their punishment.” And immediately his accusers became blind. When they saw what he had done, they were extremely afraid and did not know what to do. And they talked about him, saying, “Every word he speaks, good or evil, is an event and becomes a miracle.” When Joseph saw that Jesus had done this, however, he was outraged and took his ear and pulled it extremely hard. Then, the child became angry and said to him, “It is enough for you to seek and not find, but too much for you to act so unwisely. Do you not know that I am not yours? Do not trouble me.” |
| Apocrypha |
Here we find a true accounting of the innate depravity of Jesus’s teachings, as Thomas exhorts his bloodthirsty followers to lash out at others from blind pique, indeed to embrace evil, and to accept no responsibility for their actions.
Oh, and there are lots more of these historical Christian texts as well, including some really gay ones, as in g-a-y. From them, much is indeed to be learned about this strange religion now so often in the news.
Davis said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:11
Then there’s the Old Testament, a gold mine of misogyny, genocidal war, and overall depravity.
MrWonderful said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:22
Here I am still trying to figure out how to italicize things on this site, and Gavin reproduces this groovy semi-3-D chart. Excellent!
thelogos said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:24
Don’t forget the musicals, like “The Last Temptation of Christ”
t4toby said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:30
But that’s not fair! You’re selectively quoting random texts to justify your preconceived notion! Intellectual dishionesty!
But Muslims, don’t even get me started. One word: Dark skin.
mikey said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:31
Then there’s the Old Testament, a gold mine of misogyny, genocidal war, and overall depravity.
And talk about an eclectic selection of improvised weapons!
Killing an army with the jawbone of an ass? Righteous, dood!
Where the hell did he get the jawbone of an ass? Was it something he carried around with him? Or did he say “oh shit, I need a weapon right now” and there was an ass standing innocently by and he ripped it’s jawbone right out?
I never understood that. Surely there was more effective clubs laying around to be pressed into service. I’m gonna take the position samson was just showing off at that point…
mikey
t4toby said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:35
Once again, I blame the preview for any mistakes that it forced me to commit.
D. Aristophanes said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:37
I am so dressing up as a Sufi mystic and trick-or-treating at Beth’s house for Halloween.
Patrick Phelan said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:37
You got it backwards, Mikey. It’s not that we start with the army and move from there to the jawbone, it’s that Samson said “oh, neat! ass jawbone!” and picked it up, and then we had army problems. See, it all makes sense when you look at it that way.
Despondant Cantabridgian said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:38
I love all of the wingnuts who love to argue in public forums with actual Muslims about whether or not the Koran requires them to hate and murder people.
It’s like, dude. If someone says that their religion requires them to be peaceful and tolerant, let them go with that.
Legalize said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:38
Oh dear. I expect the thing called Beth or something like her to very loudly and with great insistence, totally fail to grasp the meaning and intent behind this post, very very soon.
Despondant Cantabridgian said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:46
Shorter Legalize:
Boy those trolls should be here any minute now…. I say THOSE TROLLS should be here ANY MINUTE NOW………..pssst trolls! you’re on!
Clutch414 said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:46
“It’s like, dude. If someone says that their religion requires them to be peaceful and tolerant, let them go with that.”
But…but…but…that’s what the Islamofascists say to throw you off their track. They tell you that they are the “Religion of Peace” and then one day BAM!!! Sharia Law and women in Buqas.
*shifty eyes*
stogie said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:46
Khosrau was the Shah of Persia during the lifetime of Mohammed. At the time of his crowning, the Persians (who were Zoroastrians at the time) were engaged in a long, mutually ruinous struggle with the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire. The Caesar referred to was probably the Emperor Heraclius. The struggle left both states exhausted and ripe for conquest. It should be noted that there were no Khosraus after the Khosrau II, due to the Arab conquest. However, the Eastern Roman Empire continued to exist until 1453, when it was conquered by the Turks.
Clutch414 said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:46
*burqas
Damnit…
Legalize said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:50
I hope you have your troll-proof boots on, Despondant Cantabridgian. ‘Cause you know they can smell this one.
Marita said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:51
It’s quiet in here…
Too quiet…
DUDACKATTACK!!! said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:51
Lest we forget the disobedience of Samuel.
edgyspice said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:51
Can I just say that I love the infancy gospels? They make Jesus seem like Billy Mumy’s character from that one “Twilight Zone” episode.
Also, if I recall correctly Jesus eventually brought that kid he killed back to life. So your quote-mining is– gasp!– dishonest! Just like the people who quote-mine Islamic texts for– oh wait, I get it.
Clutch414 said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:55
Also…if we are going to take the tighty-righties lead (I feel dirty just even implying that…yuck) and take everything from religious texts literally, then the End of Days as told in Revelation is going to be infinitely trippier than Pink Floyd’s The Wall…with the all the Whore of Babylon nonsense and trumpets from the sky and cups pouring out and the gnashing of teeth and what-not.
I can’t wait. It’s going to be like college ALL over again. But…without all the class skipping.
Religious Theologians may cann him John from Patmos…I call him “Captain Trips.”
Duuuuuuuuuude.
Clutch414 said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:56
*call
I can’t spell my way out of a paper bag today. Sheesh!!
t4toby said,
October 31, 2007 at 18:56
Personally, I like Lamb, the Gospel According to Biff, Christ’s Childhood Pal.
I prefer my religious reading to come with Yetis.
Clutch414 said,
October 31, 2007 at 19:00
After a little reflection, I think John from Patmos may have been the GodFather of Heaxy Metal music. I mean…woman and the dragon…the beast from the sea…beast from the sea with the horns and what not…very metal. Iron Maiden’s Steve Harris is jealous.
Mr. Poppinfresh said,
October 31, 2007 at 19:01
Psalm 144:
“Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:”
Baby Jesus said,
October 31, 2007 at 19:03
Can I just say that I love the infancy gospels?
No. ZAP!!! YOU’RE A GOAT!! HAHAHA!
t4toby said,
October 31, 2007 at 19:08
Let us not forget Genesis 38:9
mikey said,
October 31, 2007 at 19:08
I hate it when my fingers fight. I’ve been negotiating a peace agreement between my left index and right pinky, but right middle just launched a preemptive strike against left ring, and the thumbs keep violating the ceasefire.
I’m getting some diplomatic support from some of my toes and my scrotum, but there’s no news yet.
Dammit…
mikey
Clütch414 said,
October 31, 2007 at 19:10
All this religious/heavy metal talk has made my umlat return. *GRINS*
I think it might be because I also got Guitar Hero III over the weekend. There really is nothing like “playing” Slayer’s Reign in Blood on a small plastic faux-guitar. I am so fuckin’ metal.
t4toby said,
October 31, 2007 at 19:14
Mad metal, Clütch!
This site seems to have forgotten that only Islam is violent.
Why do they hate America?
Righteous Bubba said,
October 31, 2007 at 19:15
I once went to see a female weightlifter/evangelist speak at a skid-row ministry. After doing her thing she talked about Jesus running down to hell with a flaming sword and letting souls out. “No he didn’t” yelled some of the bums who weren’t scarfing down their free hot-dog and coffee. “YES HE DID!” yelled the evangelist, and since she’d already smashed a block of ice with her forehead in the name of Christ people stopped arguing.
Me said,
October 31, 2007 at 19:19
They make Jesus seem like Billy Mumy’s character from that one “Twilight Zone” episode.
edgyspice, dammit, stop stealing my posts. Actually, it’s better that you wrote it, since I couldn’t remember Billy Mumy’s name.
Doctorb Science said,
October 31, 2007 at 19:27
Then, the child did become angry and said unto him, “Thou art a bad man! A very bad man! And I shall wish thee into the field wherein corn groweth”. And all were filled with awe, for they knew not yet what corn was.
Rufus said,
October 31, 2007 at 19:29
Saying “Happy Holidays” makes the Baby Jesus cry, then blind you, then kill you, then resurrect you so he can blind you some more.
FS said,
October 31, 2007 at 19:42
Call me when they get on the subject of the International Werewolfian Conspiracy to Eat our Children.
fardels bear said,
October 31, 2007 at 19:57
Oooh…. That was a good Twilight Zone Episode! I remember reading the short story it is based on when I was a kid and it was scary as hell. “It is a Good Life.” by Jerome Bixby.
Despondant Cantabridgian said,
October 31, 2007 at 19:59
What he did was wicked …, so the Lord put him to death
That’s failing to get his sister-in-law pregnant that was death-worthy. Not diddling her in the first place. That verse always scared the shit out of me as a child.
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
October 31, 2007 at 20:01
Trolls won’t get home from school until after 3pm. Also, they’ve got a lot on their minds besides S,N! today…trick or treating!
Sophist, FCD said,
October 31, 2007 at 20:04
Yeah, that’s pretty bad. Take out the parts about letting them sell their stuff leave in peace, then add some stuff about burning their synagogues and forcing them into slavery and he’d sound a bit like this guy.
A Texan in Bavaria said,
October 31, 2007 at 20:14
@ Sophist, FCD:
And what a day to point out that guy… today’s Reformation Day, which can either be looked at as one of the things that loosened the Catholic Church’s iron grip on Europe or caused much sectarian violence of various types, or both.
Caesar Jeffrey Khosrau said,
October 31, 2007 at 20:19
Dude, I’m so fucked! Fuck! Game over, man!
DUDACKATTACK!!! said,
October 31, 2007 at 20:19
Psalm 144:
“Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:”
Thus making Hairy Psalms?
Sorry, had to say it.
celticgirl58 said,
October 31, 2007 at 20:25
t4toby: “Lamb”/the Gospel According to Biff is indeed the bestest gospel of Jesus EVAR!
zsa said,
October 31, 2007 at 20:28
“It’s a good thing you did that, Jesus. It’s a real good thing.”
t4toby said,
October 31, 2007 at 20:30
Indeed, CG58, in-deed.
beavis said,
October 31, 2007 at 20:31
Heh heh heh…he said hairy psalms…heh heh heh…
HumboldtBlue said,
October 31, 2007 at 20:32
You guys are gonna get it, I’m tellin’.
Mike Nilsen said,
October 31, 2007 at 20:48
Here’s my personal fave, right from the Old Testament (Hosea 13:15-16):
Ouchie.
Matt T. said,
October 31, 2007 at 20:49
since she’d already smashed a block of ice with her forehead in the name of Christ people stopped arguing.
Ya know, I might not’ve stopped going to church when I was a boy had there been more preachers smashing blocks of ice with their forheads. And cause this little nugget of wisdom never fails to tickle the hell out of me, y’all do know Anne Rice of Interview With a Vampire fame found Jesus a few years ago. Apparently, he was in a goth bar in New Orleans. Anyhow, she’s quit writing vaugely homoerotic vampire tales and is now chronicling the Adventures Of Young Jesus Christ, using non-cannonical books like the above Infant Gospel.
I find that funny as hell. Apparently, I’m the only one. But come on…Anne Rice writing about a young, teenage Jesus at the Library of Alexandria (and other places). That’s funny.
Smiling Mortician said,
October 31, 2007 at 20:57
who are these people, and why are they taking up half the Internet?
Y’know, it’d be all right if they just kept to their side of the internet. But they keep hogging the covers and farting in our direction and . . .
OK, I really don’t like that metaphor so I’ll stop now.
beavis said,
October 31, 2007 at 21:06
dutch oven?
Legalize said,
October 31, 2007 at 21:11
Hot box?
Hoosier X said,
October 31, 2007 at 21:12
I’ve been reading the Book of Jeremiah lately, and I finally put my finger on one of the things that bothers me about the God of the Old Testament: His faulty judgment!
I think He chose the wrong people. The good folks of Judah don’t seem to be very loyal or smart. In the context of the Bible, the exact same people who saw the miracle of the plagues against Pharoah AND the parting of the Red Sea don’t believe in YHVH’s powers and start worshipping … a golden calf. It happens over and over again. YHVH gives them a nice little cottage kingdom on the coast, and they disobey His laws, they marry foreign women, they neglect the tabernacle, they put meat and cheese on the same plate, they stop executing people who do yard work on the Sabbath. And so YHVH has to punish them in order to save them. The Old Testament basically ends with the coming of Nebuchadrezzer and his Babylonians and the final dismemberment of the kingdom of Judah.
And YHVH did it to them because they couldn’t keep His rules.
What with all the Amelkhites and Hittites and Canaanites and Luddites and Randites and Janeites and such, you would think YHVH could have found SOMEBODY for His chosen people who could keep a few silly rules. I guess, like many people in positions of power, He couldn’t admit he was wrong. Maybe He thought obedient times for the Jews were just around the corner.
I guess you have to make do with the chosen people you have instead of the chosen people you WISH you had.
The real lesson of the Old Testament? Don’t be hasty in choosing Your people.
Tender Mercenaries said,
October 31, 2007 at 21:13
she’d already smashed a block of ice with her forehead in the name of Christ people stopped arguing.
I always liked watching The Power Team, those guys on TBN that ripped phonebooks in half for Jesus. Maybe if they had Magnus Ver Magnusson, I would have listened.
jim said,
October 31, 2007 at 21:36
Posting from some Christian religious docs, such as the many “Burn the witches!” polemics including the Malleus Maleficarum, could be interesting.
And anyway, the title is in Latin, and sounds totally badass.
commie atheist said,
October 31, 2007 at 21:38
Can I just say that I love the infancy gospels? They make Jesus seem like Billy Mumy’s character from that one “Twilight Zone” episode.
I was thinking of the Star Trek episode where they find that kid named Charlie who makes Uhura dumb because she keeps singing some song he hates. And he kills some random crew member for making fun of him and laughing. All of it undone, of course, by the super aliens who gave the kid his powers.
Herr Doktor Bimler said,
October 31, 2007 at 21:38
Did you know that if you read this thread and play Workshop of the Telescopes at the same time, Clütch414’s comment is timed just right to coincide with the guitar solo?
Freaky, man.
zsa said,
October 31, 2007 at 21:39
Christians have this teflon deniability thing going on.
Anything terrible in the OT has been superseded by the NT. It doesn’t count. The good things from the OT still count, but the bad things don’t.
All the horrible things that Christians have done over the years … a long, long list … are simply the actions of people who do not understand the true meaning of Christianity. So the bad people who have killed, enslaved, and tortured in the name of Christ are not really Christians, see? They just thought they were Christians.
And anytime a good Christian leader gets caught “internalizing” some other guy’s baloney pony, or embezzling huge sums of cash from gullible old ladies, it’s because all men are weak and all men are sinners and it would be hypocritical for us to call them … well … hypocrites.
See how that works? Not too different than the infallibility of movement conservatism, come to think of it.
beavis said,
October 31, 2007 at 21:40
hey, Butthead, checkitout…they’ve been smited…huh huh huh…
t4toby said,
October 31, 2007 at 21:44
I believe that I am the victim of identity theft, because someone keeps posting comments that look exactly like they come from my computer, but I deny ever writing them. However, said identity theft isn’t as bad as this one time I was attacked by little yellow people, who totally had knives, but they didn’t really cut me, until later that is.
Yeah. That’s the ticket.
zsa said,
October 31, 2007 at 21:51
HDB, “Tyranny and Mutation” could be a concept album for the Bush years. They even have their own little question mark swastika thing.
Or was WotT on the first album and I’m thinking of something like “Baby Ice Dog”? The drugs have washed away so much of my youth …
Herr Doktor Bimler said,
October 31, 2007 at 21:55
To sum up Gavin’s summary of Beth’s summary of the ah??d?th — islamic heavy-metal bands have a great source of bad-ass imagery for their lyrics and album-cover art. Whether this will make up for all the chicks having to wear burqas at the live concerts remains to be seen.
Despondant Cantabridgian said,
October 31, 2007 at 22:11
So the bad people who have killed, enslaved, and tortured in the name of Christ are not really Christians, see? They just thought they were Christians.
Future Christians: Ok, so maybe in the past some people who called themselves Christians said that God wouldn’t allow global warming, and gays shouldn’t have civil rights, and the Global War on Islam was a good idea, and we should nuke Iran and torture the survivors. They were completely and utterly wrong. But WE aren’t wrong, and we totally got a clear signal this time.
M. Bouffant said,
October 31, 2007 at 22:14
“WotT” is on the eponymous first album.
First time I’ve ever used the word “eponymous.”
mikey said,
October 31, 2007 at 22:36
I saw a mouse, in hat and shoes
going downtown on the bus
He had no pants, and nothing to lose
Why, that silly mouse was eponymous…
mikey
Dennis Savage said,
October 31, 2007 at 22:48
Lemon curry?
Candy said,
October 31, 2007 at 22:48
Matt T., Anne Rice didn’t exactly find Jesus, at least not in any evangelical way. She was raised Catholic in New Orleans - her maiden name was Michael Anne O’Brien - and she was actually more of a lapsed Catholic who went back to the church after her husband died and she almost died from diabetes. You can see the influence of the church in all her writing. You can take the girl out of the church, etc, etc. (I believe the Vamp Lestat had sex with a nun in one of the books, when he was in a human body.) She’s always kind of interested me. I like her concepts about aesthetic truth being the only truth, although I imagine she’s turned away from that now that she’s back in the fold. The world as Savage Garden idea was interesting as well. I haven’t read the young jesus thing, but I’ll bet it’s a whole lot trippier than your every day bible story.
I’m a crazy lapsed Irish Catholic as well. I imagine I’ll stay lapsed though. Still, I love a good Andrew Greeley mystery. :)
/This has been a Halloween geek moment from Ms. Candy.
DaisyDeadhead said,
October 31, 2007 at 22:49
They make Jesus seem like Billy Mumy’s character from that one “Twilight Zone” episode.
No talking when the music’s playing!
t4toby said,
October 31, 2007 at 22:56
Stand by, Bouffant.
I need to find my ‘Two Dollar Word Dictionary’.
Got it. Proceed.
M. Bouffant said,
October 31, 2007 at 22:59
And how is this different from people who whine that the U. S. is a “Christian” nation, and we should deport any & all Muslims?
Not to mention that other apocryphal text, the Book of Coulter, wherein Jeebus, speaking through his representative on Earth, St. Ann, called for the death of Moooslim leaders, the forced conversion of their followers, & then the perfection of the Jews.
P. S.: In case you didn’t get it, you should know that the earth belongs to Allah & His Apostle. Especially His Apostle, since Allah seems to be on vacation or something.
Herr Doktor Bimler said,
October 31, 2007 at 22:59
I will write out 100 times: “I will not derail S,N! threads by mentioning BÖC tracks.”
the prime religious target, this time, being Muslims instead of Jews (or Catholics and The Vatican).
The olde-time anti-catholic bullshit used to feature the idea of ‘mental reservations’. As in, “You catholics might say you have no intention of taking over the world and subjecting us all to the harsh theocratic law of the papacy… but you have this doctrine of ‘mental reservation’ that lets you lie, even on oath, when talking to an unbeliever! What’s that? No such doctrine? Well of course you’d lie about that as well.”
If pressed for citations, I will point to Tristan Shandy.
Anyway, that story has been dusted off and processed with the s/catholic/islam/g script.
a different brad said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:02
Wait… Didn’t Anne Rice’s last, or close to, vampire novel cause a stir by suggesting that what with Jebus knowing he wuz God and that he had the ability to transcend death his sacrifice on the cross wasn’t all that big a deal?
My memory is very fuzzy, but I could swear Memnoch had something like that in it.
Herr Doktor Bimler said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:06
Ah, Anne Rice. Is it true that her bondage-and-discipline p0rn trilogy is to be re-issued by Regnery Press?
M. Bouffant said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:07
t4toby, I only know eponymous from reading it in “rock criticism.” Why the crits couldn’t just say “self-titled” is beyond me. Now I only read the internet, & just the simple parts, at that.
M. Bouffant said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:16
I don’t know from Anne Rice, but it’s been obvious to me for quite some time that the whole “sacrifice on the cross” thing was a load of crap, Mr. Ben-Joseph knowing full well that he’d be on the planet Kolob w/ Elohim, his father, in a matter of days. Not to mention that the whole “original sin” deal was entrapment by Gawd anyway. A total crock, in other words.
M. Bouffant said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:20
Did everyone get busted by their stupidvisors & have to go back to work? Am I in charge here now?
a different brad said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:23
Oh, Bill Hicks, praise unto him, had a bit about Jebus wanting to die on the cross and egging the Romans on to hurry it up, M. I’ll bet back at the Council where they put the Bible together someone was bringing that up in a call for some rewrites, but the editors crapped out.
M. Bouffant said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:23
Ah, the East Coasters have already left their nine-to-fives. It’s the dead zone mikey has referred to. Well, let’s see what kind of fun we can have. I’ll be right back.
Righteous Bubba said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:24
[smears weird goo on the SN! veterans memorial]
M. Bouffant said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:27
Ah, an unemployed Easterner. Of course he wanted/had to die, would’ve been a waste otherwise. Wasn’t there just some revisionist hoopla about Judas being an important part of the whole scam, & therefore shouldn’t be condemmed as a, um, “Judas.”
Alexander Haig said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:28
I’m in charge here.
a different brad said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:30
You mean the rediscovered Gospel of Judas? Yep.
M. Bouffant said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:30
“Hey!! What’s this crap on the Wall of Flame? Can’t leave this place for a minute, without one of you brats screwing it up! Now do you see why we can’t have nice things?”
A Loose Association of Chickenhawks said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:32
RB
Let it be known: we will not rest until every bit of weird goo is cleaned from the monument (not by us, by dark people, of course).
And we will be vigilant. Very, very vigilant.
We have Mountain Dew and Cheetos, so don’t test our resolve!
mikey said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:34
Nah, the real dead zone kicks in right at five pacific. I get home, turn on olbermann, pour a drinky, wake up the laptop, and it’s like, why bother. There’s nobody there…
mikey
mikey said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:36
Where do you go to buy “Weird Goo”?
I’m picturing a bottle with a pour spout and a label identifying it as “Weird Goo”. Also available in the 48oz family size.
From the American Goo company. Meeting all your Goo needs since 1925.
Weird Goo. Now with 20% more Weirdness…
mikey
Candy said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:39
adb, I haven’t read Memnoch in years, but that does ring a bell . . .
You’d have to be more specific. Which porn trilogy?
Oh, wait, you’re talking about the Beauty’s Secret, Beauty’s Release, what was the other one, Beauty’s something or other, that she wrote under a pen name? Oh, jeebus, that would be so funny, especially if they published it first and then read it later . . .
Righteous Bubba said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:42
Let it be known: we will not rest until every bit of weird goo is cleaned from the monument
I deny having anything to do with the weird goo.
Righteous Bubba said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:43
Where do you go to buy “Weird Goo”?
There’s this little mail-order place in…oh fuck.
Green Goo Baby said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:52
Where do you go to buy “Weird Goo”?
You come to me.
g said,
October 31, 2007 at 23:56
Jeez, you guys went 87 comments and no trolls showed up?
It’s awfully quiet. Too quiet.
Herr Doktor Bimler said,
November 1, 2007 at 0:07
Beauty’s Secret, Beauty’s Release, what was the other one, Beauty’s something or other
Them’s the ones. Perfect for the Regnery readership. No wet-suits to speak of, but dildi a-plenty.
Or so I hear.
rea said,
November 1, 2007 at 0:17
From Numbers 31:
1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.
3And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian.
4Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.
5So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.
6And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.
7And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
8And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
9And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
10And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
11And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
12And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
13And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
14And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
15And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Typical Republican said,
November 1, 2007 at 0:19
The fact is, you are all dirty fucking hippies who hate America and you want the terrorists to win.
I have a life, so I have to leave for five or ten minutes. But I will be back to heckle my liberals friends after I have prayed for you that you will stop the hating on George W. Bush, who is (checks the latest edition of the Big Book of Republican Talking Points) an honest, decent man who made a few mistakes - who knew a war in the Middle East would be hard and people would die? - but would have done better if it weren’t for the Lieberal media crticisizing him all the time and emboldening the terrorists.
Liberals. Hmf.
(Happy now, g?)
Hoosier X said,
November 1, 2007 at 0:21
Why were they so gung ho about warring with the Midianites? All the Midianites had was a strip of land in the middle of the road.
Herr Doktor Bimler said,
November 1, 2007 at 0:34
It was only a strip of land in the middle of the road, but they were content.
Until the LORD spake unto Moses, saying: Thou shalt strike a happy Midian.
mikey said,
November 1, 2007 at 0:39
Beating the Midian in a war was easy.
But you shoulda been there when the lord told us to go fight the mean….
(and that’s as math-sy as I get)…
mikey
Snowwy said,
November 1, 2007 at 1:10
Typical Republican, you don’t count. Hell, I’m not even sure you exist.
Ben said,
November 1, 2007 at 1:42
The Gold Star Mother you mocked is one D. Brand, mother of the late lamented Emerson Brand who was killed by an explosively formed projectile March 15. The email was genuine, and I have now sent this site to her.
Argumentum Tu Quoque does not cut the mustard. Regardless of various deviations by corrupted clerics & exploitative emperors, the Gospels & acts are entirely lacking equivalents to the open ended commands to make war enshrined in Al-Anfal 39 & Al-Taubah 29. When did Jesus declare that he was commanded to fight with men until they testify… Abu Dawud 14.2635 ? Submission makes our lives and property unlawful to Muslims. In Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387 we learn that our blood and property are not sacred to Muslims until we submit. Those hadith declare open season on us.
Estimates of the victims of the conquest of India range from 40 to 90 million. The Assyrian genocide runs to 750,000 and the Armenian genocide to 1.5 million. In Al-Anfal 67, Allah tells Moe that great slaughter is his ticket to Paradise.
Islamic Jihad ain’t about anything we did or failed to do, its about the wealth we possess and the fact that we ain’t Muslims.
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
November 1, 2007 at 1:43
I’m getting some diplomatic support from some of my toes and my scrotum, but there’s no news yet.
How goes the scrotum struggle, Mikey? I’ve heard no word, and I’m getting worried (actually, I’ve only just got up, but that’s beside the point. We barely employed antipodeans gotta make conversation somehow).
And despite being a gen-u-wine mathematician, I’ll leave the Midian gags to the rest of you guys. You’re doing much better without me, anyway.
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
November 1, 2007 at 1:48
Islamic Jihad ain’t about anything we did or failed to do, its about the wealth we possess and the fact that we ain’t Muslims.
[Stretches, as only a cat can] Hello, Ben, glad you could join us. Fancy a cup of tea? No? Well, let’s get right into it, then.
Sigh. Listen, brother, the war in the Middle East has nothing to do with Islamic jihad, or raiders on viking, or any other historical/reigious trope. The war in the Middle East is because the US government decided, in their benevolent wisdom, to invade and occupy an innocent country that just happened to be one of the world’s largest sources of oil.
Would Iraq have been occupied if their major product was broccoli? I suspect not, although I may be wrong.
Whatever the case with that, it’s certain that:
1) Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11;
2) Saddam had no WMDs;
3) Saddam was no threat even to his neighbours, much less the most heavily armed nation in the history of the world;
4) The war of occupation in Iraq is daily contributing to hatred of America, which will, sooner or later, result in more acts of terrorism against Americans.
So why do you hate America so much, Ben?
a different brad said,
November 1, 2007 at 1:59
Gold Star parents are like 9/11 relatives. Unimpeachable so long as they’re right wing. If not, they’re disgraces to their children.
Right, Ben?
Typical Republican said,
November 1, 2007 at 2:24
That’s just harsh! Just because we always come up with a few thousand phantom votes in every election, it doesn’t mean there aren’t a FEW of us around.
Just check the airport men’s rooms.
Liberals. Hmf.
Gavin M. said,
November 1, 2007 at 2:41
I look forward to hearing from her.
Subtracting the Old Testament from the Christian Bible while including giant amounts of sectarian commentary with Muslim scripture certainly makes such a reading possible, yes.
As to whether it’s appropriate (or honest), the point of the ‘tu quoque’ was to show that it isn’t hard to rummage around in the Christian tradition and find similarly alarming statements. I think if you’re trying to demonstrate that Islam is unique among Abrahamic religions in its viciousness and bellicosity, it’s necessary to show that it actually is unique, etc.
These are numbers that I haven’t seen before, and while I’m suspicious, in general, of such numbers, I’ll look them up.
And yet, here we are sitting on Iraq’s oil. This seems like quite a table-turning switcheroo, if Islam was plotting to steal our wealth the whole time.
RandomObserver said,
November 1, 2007 at 2:57
The Bible includes God drowning the world and all of it’s inhabitants, burning two cities wholesale, the destruction of another entire city by his chosen people specifically including all women and children, etc etc. It’s hard to argue that Christianity is a religion of peace when you worship a vengeful, irrational warmonger.
I’ve always loved that when God was threatening to destroy Sodom in the height of his blind rage he was talked back to rationality by a pesky human liberal who had to point out to God that killing innocent people is a bad thing.
RandomObserver said,
November 1, 2007 at 2:59
Also I would point out that throwing out the Old Testament doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when “values voters” rely on it almost exclusively for their hatemongering. You don’t get to pick and choose when it’s applicable and when it isn’t.
If you are going to go with the story that God destroyed Sodom because it had gay people in it you also have to go with the story that God considers civilians casualties to be collateral damage.
mikey said,
November 1, 2007 at 3:39
Jeezus christs tits in a mason jar, Gav!
Who ARE these assholes?
How do they come here? Hell, WHY do they come here?
Do they think we just need a little of their message of hatred and intollerance, misery and murder and we’ll be all “hell yeah, america, damn right, kill the fuckers”?
Do they not recognize they are saying EXACTLY the same thing as bin laden, but they have a different book?
Gad….
mikey
RobW said,
November 1, 2007 at 3:40
Wasn’t there just some revisionist hoopla about Judas being an important part of the whole scam, & therefore shouldn’t be condemmed as a, um, “Judas.”
I don’t know nothin’ ’bout no Judas Gospel, but that does sound like a major plotline in a certain Martin Scorcese movie.
You don’t get to pick and choose when it’s applicable and when it isn’t.
http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/
Herr Doktor Bimler said,
November 1, 2007 at 3:53
The Assyrian genocide runs to 750,000 and the Armenian genocide to 1.5 million.
The numbers seem to be picked from the top end of estimates within some rather tendentious Wikipedia pages.
Wikipedia also informs us that the Ottoman empire was governed at the time by the secular, nationalist ideology of the Young Turks, and that Mehmed Talat Pasha (Minister of the Interior, most closely implicated in removing minority populations) was an atheist and Freemason. Ben might want to explain the link between these atrocities and clauses of obscure Koranic commentary.
Cafeteria Christian said,
November 1, 2007 at 4:18
Beg to differ. We can and do.
Debi Brand said,
November 1, 2007 at 4:38
Debi Brand here, forced Gold Star mon.
I understand there seems to be an issue with statements I made in an e-mail I sent to Ben, that, he in turn posted here.
I will happily discuss those statements with anyone wishing to do so.
Debi Brand
Gavin M. said,
November 1, 2007 at 5:05
Debi, I’m mostly taking issue with this very selective reading of Islamic texts, trying to prove that individual Muslims are bad people — programmed by their religion to kill, or what have you.
It would be very easy (and also wrong) to take sentences out of the Torah and the Talmud, or even out of Protestant Reformation and Counter-Reformation texts, that ‘prove’ that Jews and Christians are bad people.
mikey said,
November 1, 2007 at 5:10
Kinda sounds to me like when they told us we had to kill the fuckin NVA ’cause they were communists, and that was dangerous and threatening to our entire way of life.
But fact is, when it came down to it, we just killed them ’cause they were trying to kill us. For perfectly serviceable reasons, I’m sure.
You DO see the circularity in this cheney-esqe bullshit, don’t you, Deb?
Tool…
mikey
Ben said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:00
This comment uses html techniques that may not reproduce properly. In which case, I will post it at Miss Beth’s Stomping Ground.
1.
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
November 1, 2007 at 1:48
Islamic Jihad ain’t about anything we did or failed to do, its about the wealth we possess and the fact that we ain’t Muslims.
[Stretches, as only a cat can] Hello, Ben, glad you could join us. Fancy a cup of tea? No? Well, let’s get right into it, then.
Sigh. Listen, brother, the war in the Middle East has nothing to do with Islamic jihad, or raiders on viking, or any other historical/reigious trope. The war in the Middle East is because the US government decided, in their benevolent wisdom, to invade and occupy an innocent country that just happened to be one of the world’s largest sources of oil.1
Would Iraq have been occupied if their major product was broccoli? I suspect not, although I may be wrong.
Whatever the case with that, it’s certain that:
1) Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11;2
2) Saddam had no WMDs;3
3) Saddam was no threat even to his neighbours, much less the most heavily armed nation in the history of the world;4
4) The war of occupation in Iraq is daily contributing to hatred of America, which will, sooner or later, result in more acts of terrorism against Americans.5
So why do you hate America so much, Ben?6
1. The war in Afghanistan is a result of state sponsorship of terrorism, which caused the death of 3000 in New York & Washington D.C. The war in Iraq is a result of egregious & continuous violation of the terms of cease fire of Desert Storm. And perhaps you forgot where Abdul Rahman Yasin spent the years between 09/11/’01 and the invasion of Iraq. Then there is the little matter of $25,000 subsidy to Splodydopes and the terrorist training facility at Salman Pak. If we went for oil, why haven’t we seized it?
2. Iraq is 80% Muslim. In case you missed it, the Qur’an requires Muslims to make war on Kuffar. Islamic law requires the Caliph or Imam to mount at least one military expedition in every year. Connections between Saddam’s regime and Al-Qaeda are well documented.
3. Totally irrelevant as well as false. Mortar shells filled with Mustard Gas have been found in Iraq, and the WMD issue was neither sole nor most significant casus belli.
4. No threat? How can you make that claim in the face of the invasion of Kuwait, stamping license plates for use in KSA & the eight year war against Iran????
5. Hatred of America is a function of hubris and Islamic doctrine enshrined in the Qur’an. Islam hates anyone who does not embrace it. If defence against Islamic aggression results in hate, leading to increased aggression, then the correct response is instantaneous extermination. How was World War Two ended?
6. That is a prime example of the straw man argument coupled with projection.
Ben said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:08
Gavin, the fact is that Islam is singularly bellicose. How many battles did Jesus Christ order ? Moe ordered 85. How many battles did Jesus Christ physically participate in? Moe fought in 17. Christian scripture does not have any commands equivalent to those found in the Qur’an, particularly 8:39 & 9:29.
When Islam’s armies invaded India and other places, they carried home vast quantities of gold, silver, and other booty. We are not doing that in Iraq. The difference between aggressive conquest and defense seems to escape your notice entirely.
Ben said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:13
#
Herr Doktor Bimler said,
November 1, 2007 at 3:53
The Assyrian genocide runs to 750,000 and the Armenian genocide to 1.5 million.
The numbers seem to be picked from the top end of estimates within some rather tendentious Wikipedia pages.
Wikipedia also informs us that the Ottoman empire was governed at the time by the secular, nationalist ideology of the Young Turks, and that Mehmed Talat Pasha (Minister of the Interior, most closely implicated in removing minority populations) was an atheist and Freemason. Ben might want to explain the link between these atrocities and clauses of obscure Koranic commentary.
You can’t be an atheist and a Freemason, Doc! Your ignorance is showing. Whether you like it or not, the Ottoman Empire had the Caliph’s throne at that time. Attaturk, who dissolved the Caliphate, was a Muslim and a FreeMason.
Ben said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:20
#
Gavin M. said,
November 1, 2007 at 5:05
Debi, I’m mostly taking issue with this very selective reading of Islamic texts, trying to prove that individual Muslims are bad people — programmed by their religion to kill, or what have you.
It would be very easy (and also wrong) to take sentences out of the Torah and the Talmud, or even out of Protestant Reformation and Counter-Reformation texts, that ‘prove’ that Jews and Christians are bad people.
Its the straw man argument again. Neither the Myth vs Fact series nor my other posts focus on individual Muslims. They focus on Islamic doctrine and practice. The Qur’an reveals the relationship between Allah and his slaves [9:111] and tells them what to do. [8:12, 8:39, 8:67, 9:29, 47:4]
Islam is a threat to us because a sufficient number of Muslims believe and act on those damnable doctrines. Threats need not be successful to be harmful. Hitler & Mussolini failed to conquer and hold Europe, but the killed millions of people in their attempt. Had our father’s generation sat back to see what the outcome would be, it might have been much different; we might be speaking German.
Righteous Bubba said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:21
Ben’s 1234 and five are pretty much conspiracy theory that nobody but an ass takes seriously at this point. Rebuttal is pointless, as with UFO nuts.
But on Islam:
In case you missed it, the Qur’an requires Muslims to make war on Kuffar.
You’re quite stupid if you haven’t noticed that a billion muslims are actually not waging war on Kuffar. They have better things to do.
I think Islam’s a shit religion, but as with most religions people tend to behave as they like, which mostly revolves around trying to live in peace.
Ben said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:33
Righteous Bubba,
Why don’t you read Chapter 9 of Reliance of the Traveler? It lays out the Sharia concerning Jihad. Offensive Jihad is fard Kifaya, not fard ayn. Once a sufficient number of men have gone to the front, the others are freed from the obligation. They are still obligated, however, to support the Mujahideen with prayer, financial support and caring for their families.
With American Muslims being peace loving pacifists, how was the Holy Land Foundation able to accrue $13,000,000 for HAMAS?
The Bolsheviks were not a majority in Russia. The colonists who revolted 230 years ago were not a majority either.
Righteous Bubba said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:35
Why don’t you read Chapter 9 of Reliance of the Traveler?
Why don’t you read a newspaper?
Gavin M. said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:42
‘Christian scripture’ includes the Old Testament and canonical writings besides the Gospels. You can’t simply cut those things out of the tradition in order to set up a false historical dichotomy between Jesus and Mohammed — one of whom said nothing for attribution, was witnessed personally by no later canonical writer, and wasn’t even responsible for building his own church. The Christian church as we know it was built generations after Jesus’s death. Mohammed, on the other hand, built his own. He was his own Paul and his own Constantine. The equivalency is quite forced, and no halfway-serious student of history would waste a minute on it.
Furthermore, you can’t simply ignore the wars of conquest waged by Christian armies, including military orders such as the Knights Hospitaller and Templar. Furthermore, there were bloody purges of heretics and religious civil wars in Europe for hundreds of years.
What you’re doing is playing games with little bits of religious text trying to prove that Muslims, unlike your own kind of people, are inherently bad and should be attacked and killed. Well, it works the same way for Jews and Christians. In fact, the method you’re using is classic right-wing religious paranoia, exactly as it was used against Jews and Catholics. It’s a dirty business, and you ought to think about what you’re doing.
When ‘Christianity’s armies’ invaded South America, they brought home vast quantities of gold, silver, and other booty. And converted the natives, and instituted slavery, and so forth, although this seems to have escaped your notice entirely. The Muslim conquest of India was different exactly how?
‘Because they were Muslims’ is not a serious answer.
RandomObserver said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:45
It sure didn’t take us long to get to “everyone we don’t like is German” now did it?
Right-wing: learn a second analogy. Preferably one that makes sense. Let’s stop comparing people who don’t even control their armed forces and aren’t the most powerful person in their own government to Hitler…just for a little while? It just sounds stupid to rely on the same single canard for everything, even when it makes no sense. Saddam is Hitler, Osama is Hitler, the guy down the street that sells pita bread is Hitler…we get it.
Considering that the right-wing takes it’s propaganda and policy directly from 30s Germany the cries about Hitler seem a bit forced.
Gavin M. said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:45
Same way the IRA was financed and armed by Irish-Americans, to the tune of many times that amount.
That’s different exactly how?
Ben said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:48
#
Righteous Bubba said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:35
Why don’t you read Chapter 9 of Reliance of the Traveler?
Why don’t you read a newspaper?
The mainstream media are part of the problem, not the solution, Bubba! With the exception of the Wall Street Journal & Investor’s Business Daily, they toe the party line about Islam. The New York Sun and Canada Post print some good articles, but for the real deal, it is best to go right to the source and skip the middle man.
mikey said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:49
Man. Poor Ben.
We got a kid in replacements late june. His name was Art. He was a good sized kid, had played ball, had a ready smile and didn’t shirk at the work. But dammit, that poor kid was just a terrified ball of nerves. Whenever rounds would start to fly, he’d fold up in a fetal position and cry. Not on purpose. He genuinely couldn’t help it. A loud noise and Art was done for the day.
This kid Ben is the second time I’ve seen this kind of inherent cowardice. Now you gotta be fair and understand. Ben doesn’t necessarily WANT to be a coward. But the very idea, just a sliver of a thought that swarthy people who worship a different ideological mythology, with knife bared and what can only be described as an evil gleam in his eye might be, right now, at this VERY moment sneaking up to behead Ben and put a Burqa on Ben’s sister (what - you thought he might have a girlfriend or wife? Hah.) causes Ben to hyperventilate and beg for just a bit of mercy.
Sad, these guys who are more afraid of living than they are of warfare. But they offer a path that cannot be sustained. Fuck ‘em…
mikey
RandomObserver said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:50
Number of convictions against the Holy Land Foundation and it’s higher-ups: zero.
Swing and a miss.
With American Christians being peace loving pacifists, why do so many of them support torture? More than the general US population in fact.
Ben said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:52
I ain’t Catholic and I don’t defend Catholicism, Gavin. The subject is Islam. American Muslims dropped $13Mil into the Zakat box for HAMAS. That ain’t a demonstration of peace loving.
Gavin M. said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:52
Oh right. I need to remember to watch the rumor/fact distinction more closely.
Righteous Bubba said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:54
The New York Sun and Canada Post print some good articles, but for the real deal, it is best to go right to the source and skip the middle man.
There is no Canada Post, but “right to the source” - whatever that is - has led you to embrace a steaming pile of bullshit that even neocons don’t try to push anymore because it’s embarrassingly wrong. See again your 1234 and 5.
Quick! Name a Muslim country that’s attacked the US!
RandomObserver said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:55
No, the subject is what we decide the subject is. If you are going to single out one religion you better be able to explain *why* it is different, and saying “I don’t defend Catholicism” is an admission that you can’t do that.
If you want to argue that many religions are fucked up feel free. If you want to argue that one religion specifically is fucked up you have to contrast it with the others.
Otherwise you should go start “Catholifacism awareness week” since Catholics are by your own admission no more defensible than Muslims.
Righteous Bubba said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:55
The subject is Islam.
I believe you’ll find that the subject is bullshit and who’s slinging it. At the moment it’s you.
Gavin M. said,
November 1, 2007 at 6:59
And I’m saying that if you’re attributing unique, intrinsic pathologies to Islam, you need to at least make an effort to account for the fact that they’re not unique, and apparently not intrinsic to Islam.
That’s not tu quoque, either: It’s universalism.
Ben said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:04
“You’re one, too!” does not cut the mustard, Gavin. Attacking Christianity does not defend Islam. Islam’s purpose is mercenary and its method is martial.
What You Need To Know About Islam has links to the vital facts about Islam’s mercenary and martial nature: http://totheulama.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/what-you-need-to-know-about-islam/
.
Righteous Bubba said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:07
What You Need To Know About Islam has links to the vital facts
Maybe these vital facts will result in the invasion of Morocco or Tunisia.
RandomObserver said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:16
Actually “You’re one, too!” does very much cut the mustard if your point is that Islam is singularly evil. The opposite of “unique” is “not unique.” Math for the win.
Ben said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:17
Read the Qur’an & Hadith, Gavin. You can find links to them at my blog and web site. Sahih Bukhari books 52, 53 & 59 reveal what Muhammad did and said outside of the Mosque. The Qur’an reveals what he said in it. The two form a congruent pattern. Besides reinforcing each other, the two texts are the basis of Sharia. In my previous comment, I posted the url to a blog post which quotes relevant passages from Islamic Law.
What minister of the Gospel is preaching holy war in what church? What Muslim Imam is not preaching Jihad in what Mosque? MEMRI has plenty of tapes & transcripts of Jihad preaching. What was the blind sheikh preaching in N.J. in 1993? What were his congregants doing?
Gavin M. said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:24
It indeed cuts the mustard when people are going around using the same faulty, hashed-together arguments for attacking Muslims as people used in the 1920s and ’30s for attacking Jews. I don’t mean just in Germany and Italy, but in America.
See, back then, few Americans liked Jews very much or stepped up to defend them. Whereas now, few Americans like Muslims very much or step up to defend them. That’s the difference, see.
You might perceive the difference as “Jews don’t have an international conspiracy to destroy civilization, and claiming they do is nothing but vile anti-Semitism,” but that’s because you’re living now instead of then.
Is this making sense?
Righteous Bubba said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:25
Read the Qur’an
I’ve read it. It sucks. So what? The Egyptian navy is not currently steaming towards Hoboken under its influence.
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:34
Ben, you’re failing to get some very big points. You’re failing to get, for instance, that Islam is no different from Christianity: both sets of holy writings condone war and brutality, and both have been used to justify wars of conquest and acquisition. For the gods’ sakes, what about the Crusades? Those fucking Christians slaughtered everyone along their path, including (but not limited to) a lot of Armenian Christians. All in god’s name, Ben.
So if you’re attempting to prove that Islam is uniquely violent, you’re pushing shit uphill, because there’s centuries of history to prove you wrong.
Why do you claim to know so much about Islam anyway? Why are you so afraid of Muslims? I mean, I’m not afraid of them. But then, I’ve met some, Ben. I know that Muslims are just ordinary folks: they mostly want to work and survive and raise their kids just like Christians and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists.
And if you’re either a Christian or a Jew, then you’re not following scripture, if you (for example) wear poly/cotton underthings. And if you’re not following that one single line, then why won’t you believe that Muslims might also not be following the instructions in one single line of their holy book?
Face it, Ben, you’re just digging yourself into a bigger hole here. Give up while you’ve still got a shred of dignity.
Ben said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:36
Your argument lacks logic, Gavin. The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is a proven fabrication, not accepted by Jews as a guide for action. The Qur’an & Hadith, regardless of actual provenance, are generally accepted by Muslims and serve as the basis of Sharia.
Neither Jews nor Christians are under a binding, unlimited mandate to conquer the world. Muslims are. The Jews were commanded to conquer Canaan. The mandate ended with the completion of the conquest. Muslims are commanded to fight until only Allah is worshiped, altogether and everywhere.
Moe said that Jihad would be practiced continuously until the last day. He also cursed Muslims who would abandon Jihad for agriculture.
Where Islam has sufficient strength and can get away with it, they murder, rape and burn. Not only in Darfur, but in Nigeria and Indonesia and Thailand.
That’s what Islam is all about; what it does, by design.
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:36
What Muslim Imam is not preaching Jihad in what Mosque?
Most of them, I should imagine. Otherwise you’d be knee-deep in a billion Muslims.
Jrod said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:38
I’m still waiting to hear how the Christian conquest of North and South America was so different from the Islamic conquest of India.
Look Ben, you really don’t have a clue how we humans work. Both Muslims and Christians have brutally conquered and pillaged in the name of their religion, and have both done so at roughly the same rate. Once in awhile they did and do it to each other.
Any basic study of history shows that people like to brutally kill each other, usually in order to gain wealth or power of some sort. People will use whatever excuse is handy to do this, and religion has always been a popular choice.
You can quote musty old texts all day long, but it won’t change what actually happened, which is that both Islam and Christianity have killed untold millions. Meanwhile, the vast majority of both groups just want to live in peace.
You can’t see that because you’re a bigot. Accept it already.
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:38
What minister of the Gospel is preaching holy war in what church?
None around here, certainly: down here we’ve seen too much of that sort of propaganda. But around where you are, I suspect there’s lots. I suspect you know a lot of people who want to annihilate the entire Muslim population of the world, just so you’ll sleep better at night, knowing those scary brown people won’t be kneeling down to pray and looking at you funny.
Why else would you believe such a patent load of bollocks?
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:40
Moe said that Jihad would be practiced continuously until the last day.
Oh, Ben. Jihad doesn’t mean holy war in the sense of going forth with sword and shield to smite the foe: it means war within oneself. Struggling daily against wrong impulses.
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:42
Where Islam has sufficient strength and can get away with it, they murder, rape and burn. Not only in Darfur, but in Nigeria and Indonesia and Thailand.
That’s what Islam is all about; what it does, by design.
Jesus, Ben, you’re talking in cartoon terms now. And what’s with this “and Indonesia and Thailand”? What do you think has been going on there lately?
Jrod said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:43
Neither Jews nor Christians are under a binding, unlimited mandate to conquer the world.
Jews aren’t, but last I heard Christians were required to convert all to Christianity. Hell, a true Christian’s foremost goal is the “save” everyone they can. Now most Christians (who actually care) go about this by annoying people on street corners or door-to-door. The Spanish in the 1500s used a different tactic.
Look it up.
Jrod said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:46
Where Islamhumanity has sufficient strength and can get away with it, they murder, rape and burn.
FTFY
Jrod said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:47
Not quite fixed I guess. Imagine a line through Islam. The preview could do it, so can you!
Gavin M. said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:55
Um, the ahadith are not literally true as accounts of what anyone said. This should be especially clear since the Sahih Bukhari is all about collecting varying, sometimes contradictory versions of events.
Besides, you seem to be taking the Sunni line, since Shia don’t consider this stuff canonical. Important distinction there.
But yes, many Muslims believe that the Sahih Bukhari includes a true record of what Mohammed said and did.
Well, Fred Phelps just got hit with a gigantic lawsuit today, so maybe he won’t be preaching so much holy war for awhile.
What Imam isn’t preaching Jihad? Well, they’re all preaching Jihad, since the word ‘Jihad’ means duty to the faith. If some crazy Mormons were ever to use the word ‘tithing’ to denote violence, perhaps someone would try to claim that all Mormons are terrorists for supporting tithing. Then again, probably not.
What was the other question? Oh, MEMRI. Yeah, you can get a lot of good stuff from an ‘impartial translation service’ run by Israeli intelligence agents. They even translate most of the words correctly.
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:56
I can see it, Jrod, I really can! I see the light of that strikethrough, I do! Praise Jesus! Ah ayum saved!
Gavin M. said,
November 1, 2007 at 7:58
The Talmud certainly isn’t a fabrication. Much of the ’scholarship’ against Jews was based on genuine Jewish texts. I never me