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	<title>Comments on: But Banning Books IS Educational</title>
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	<description>Poise! Poise!</description>
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		<title>By: athiests for christ</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-604734</link>
		<dc:creator>athiests for christ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 01:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-604734</guid>
		<description>reading is a terrible thing for kids to be doing. they should get a better hobby like drugs or join a cult. cults are nice groups of people. who knows what jimmy could be reading in one of those evil paper demons?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>reading is a terrible thing for kids to be doing. they should get a better hobby like drugs or join a cult. cults are nice groups of people. who knows what jimmy could be reading in one of those evil paper demons?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: A Finely Crafted Run-on Sentence &#187; Peace!? Nope.</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-321293</link>
		<dc:creator>A Finely Crafted Run-on Sentence &#187; Peace!? Nope.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-321293</guid>
		<description>[...] community that I almost never thought about the argument myself, but this blog post entitled &#8220;But Banning Books IS Educational&#8221; on Sadly, No! brings up many interesting points regarding censorship. We talked a lot about [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] community that I almost never thought about the argument myself, but this blog post entitled &#8220;But Banning Books IS Educational&#8221; on Sadly, No! brings up many interesting points regarding censorship. We talked a lot about [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sam Thornton</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-321284</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Thornton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-321284</guid>
		<description>Bibliophobia is a fine, old American tradition. William Penn, it&#039;s said, grew so incensed at the proliferation of time-wasting books that he wrote an angry book about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bibliophobia is a fine, old American tradition. William Penn, it&#8217;s said, grew so incensed at the proliferation of time-wasting books that he wrote an angry book about it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dreamer</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-321071</link>
		<dc:creator>Dreamer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 00:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-321071</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s somewhat about controlling the minds of their children isn&#039;t it? On some deep, probably dank and moldy, level they understand that their &#039;reality&#039; can&#039;t stand up to scrutiny. Allowing these books to exist in any accessible form threatens that, because they fear the day the child picks up the &#039;wrong&#039; book and might realise that they&#039;ve had the wool pulled over their eyes. 

You could almost draw a parallel between the abstinence movement (anti-birth control) and book banning, they fear sex and information so much that just the potential of being exposed to either is simply too great.

...you know... that last analogy sounds stupider than it did in my head. Meh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s somewhat about controlling the minds of their children isn&#8217;t it? On some deep, probably dank and moldy, level they understand that their &#8216;reality&#8217; can&#8217;t stand up to scrutiny. Allowing these books to exist in any accessible form threatens that, because they fear the day the child picks up the &#8216;wrong&#8217; book and might realise that they&#8217;ve had the wool pulled over their eyes. </p>
<p>You could almost draw a parallel between the abstinence movement (anti-birth control) and book banning, they fear sex and information so much that just the potential of being exposed to either is simply too great.</p>
<p>&#8230;you know&#8230; that last analogy sounds stupider than it did in my head. Meh.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: lou</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320823</link>
		<dc:creator>lou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320823</guid>
		<description>PS among the A-G list:
All the Pretty Horses - McCarthy, Cormac
Animal Dreams - Kingsolver, Barbara
Beloved - Morrison, Toni
Black Boy - Wright, Richard
Bless Me Ultima - Anaya, Rudolfo A.
Exodus - Uris, Leon (!!!)

And of course, Catcher in the Rye. 

Can&#039;t figure out why a tame mystery like Silver Pigs by Lindsay David is on the list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS among the A-G list:<br />
All the Pretty Horses &#8211; McCarthy, Cormac<br />
Animal Dreams &#8211; Kingsolver, Barbara<br />
Beloved &#8211; Morrison, Toni<br />
Black Boy &#8211; Wright, Richard<br />
Bless Me Ultima &#8211; Anaya, Rudolfo A.<br />
Exodus &#8211; Uris, Leon (!!!)</p>
<p>And of course, Catcher in the Rye. </p>
<p>Can&#8217;t figure out why a tame mystery like Silver Pigs by Lindsay David is on the list.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lou</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320815</link>
		<dc:creator>lou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320815</guid>
		<description>Degenerate Librarian,
It starts that way. But check out this list that started as a protest about certain books being on required reading lists. Then the group moved on to banning books from libraries, or making them generally off limits unless parents signed permission slips. It started off with a handful of books 8 years ago and now the list is in the 100s.
http://www.sibbap.org/booksag.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Degenerate Librarian,<br />
It starts that way. But check out this list that started as a protest about certain books being on required reading lists. Then the group moved on to banning books from libraries, or making them generally off limits unless parents signed permission slips. It started off with a handful of books 8 years ago and now the list is in the 100s.<br />
<a href="http://www.sibbap.org/booksag.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.sibbap.org/booksag.htm</a></p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lobbey</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320434</link>
		<dc:creator>lobbey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320434</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;That guy posting under the name “Gary Ruppert” is really good. You would almost think it was the real one.

except for the spelling errors, it could be him...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>That guy posting under the name “Gary Ruppert” is really good. You would almost think it was the real one.</p>
<p>except for the spelling errors, it could be him&#8230;</i></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Degenerate Librarian</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320358</link>
		<dc:creator>Degenerate Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320358</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pretty sure you know better than that, Pere Ubu. Asking that a book be removed from a required reading list is in no way equivalent to &quot;forbidding ANYONE to read said book.&quot;  The cases in question are not a matter of &quot;that which is not mandatory is forbidden,&quot; they&#039;re typically more &quot;that which is not mandatory is still available in the library for anyone who wants to read it.&quot;

Please note that I&#039;m not saying a book should be removed from the assignment sheet simply because a parent complains. What I am saying is that the ALA considers the registering of a complaint--whether successful or not--to be the moral equivalent of burning every available copy of the book in the school parking lot.

I think this is a mistake, as it opens the group up to very valid criticism from scum like the AFA. It is also intellectually dishonest, as it makes a mockery of one of the essential principles of librarianship, which is listening to your community in order to satisfy your particular community&#039;s needs.

&quot;Listening to your community&quot; doesn&#039;t mean you have to do what they say, but it does mean you can&#039;t call them monsters when they say something you don&#039;t like. The current conception of BBW is contemptuous toward anyone who disagrees with the decision of an authority figure, and I think that stinks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure you know better than that, Pere Ubu. Asking that a book be removed from a required reading list is in no way equivalent to &#8220;forbidding ANYONE to read said book.&#8221;  The cases in question are not a matter of &#8220;that which is not mandatory is forbidden,&#8221; they&#8217;re typically more &#8220;that which is not mandatory is still available in the library for anyone who wants to read it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Please note that I&#8217;m not saying a book should be removed from the assignment sheet simply because a parent complains. What I am saying is that the ALA considers the registering of a complaint&#8211;whether successful or not&#8211;to be the moral equivalent of burning every available copy of the book in the school parking lot.</p>
<p>I think this is a mistake, as it opens the group up to very valid criticism from scum like the AFA. It is also intellectually dishonest, as it makes a mockery of one of the essential principles of librarianship, which is listening to your community in order to satisfy your particular community&#8217;s needs.</p>
<p>&#8220;Listening to your community&#8221; doesn&#8217;t mean you have to do what they say, but it does mean you can&#8217;t call them monsters when they say something you don&#8217;t like. The current conception of BBW is contemptuous toward anyone who disagrees with the decision of an authority figure, and I think that stinks.</p>
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		<title>By: Pere Ubu</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320325</link>
		<dc:creator>Pere Ubu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320325</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I haven’t counted it up, but a quick eyeballing suggests that the number of challenges related to required reading lists and classroom presentations equals or exceeds the number of books challenged in library collections.&lt;/I&gt;

One might think parents should learn to deal with material they don&#039;t like in books their children are requested to read not by forbidding ANYONE to read said book but by talking to the teachers and administrators to try to work out an acceptable alternative. You know, by being responsible adults and stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I haven’t counted it up, but a quick eyeballing suggests that the number of challenges related to required reading lists and classroom presentations equals or exceeds the number of books challenged in library collections.</i></p>
<p>One might think parents should learn to deal with material they don&#8217;t like in books their children are requested to read not by forbidding ANYONE to read said book but by talking to the teachers and administrators to try to work out an acceptable alternative. You know, by being responsible adults and stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: David in NYC</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320276</link>
		<dc:creator>David in NYC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320276</guid>
		<description>That guy posting under the name &quot;Gary Ruppert&quot; is really good.  You would almost think it was the real one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That guy posting under the name &#8220;Gary Ruppert&#8221; is really good.  You would almost think it was the real one.</p>
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		<title>By: Degenerate Librarian</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320257</link>
		<dc:creator>Degenerate Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320257</guid>
		<description>Dammit. Why are typos never visible until after the submission?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dammit. Why are typos never visible until after the submission?</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Degenerate Librarian</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320255</link>
		<dc:creator>Degenerate Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320255</guid>
		<description>Sigh.

I am a librarian, and I am a far-left liberal, but I despise Banned Books Week for largely the same reason as the despicable Mr. Dobson. The problem is that Mr. Cushman, quoted by Dobson, is absolutely right: the ALA has way overstepped its remit and is loudly and proudly in opposition in opposing parents&#039; involvement in what their children are &lt;i&gt;required&lt;/i&gt; to read.

Check out the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwkit/bookschallenged/2007shortlist.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;2007 Banned and Challenged Shortlist&lt;/a&gt; if you don&#039;t believe me. I haven&#039;t counted it up, but a quick eyeballing suggests that the number of challenges related to required reading lists and classroom presentations equals or exceeds the number of books challenged in library collections. 

Sadly, the issue here really is that the ALA is, intentionally or not, taking a stand against parental involvement in their children&#039;s education. BBW goes way, way beyond whether a book is available to an interested reader, insisting that parents should have no voice in determining what their children should be forced to read. I am very disappointed in the organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sigh.</p>
<p>I am a librarian, and I am a far-left liberal, but I despise Banned Books Week for largely the same reason as the despicable Mr. Dobson. The problem is that Mr. Cushman, quoted by Dobson, is absolutely right: the ALA has way overstepped its remit and is loudly and proudly in opposition in opposing parents&#8217; involvement in what their children are <i>required</i> to read.</p>
<p>Check out the <a href="http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwkit/bookschallenged/2007shortlist.pdf" rel="nofollow">2007 Banned and Challenged Shortlist</a> if you don&#8217;t believe me. I haven&#8217;t counted it up, but a quick eyeballing suggests that the number of challenges related to required reading lists and classroom presentations equals or exceeds the number of books challenged in library collections. </p>
<p>Sadly, the issue here really is that the ALA is, intentionally or not, taking a stand against parental involvement in their children&#8217;s education. BBW goes way, way beyond whether a book is available to an interested reader, insisting that parents should have no voice in determining what their children should be forced to read. I am very disappointed in the organization.</p>
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		<title>By: Herr Doktor Bimler</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320168</link>
		<dc:creator>Herr Doktor Bimler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320168</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I guess the entire 200 section must always be empty then.&lt;/i&gt;
Goddamn Americans, imposing their goddamned American library classifications on the rest of the world. If it&#039;s not the Dewey system, it&#039;s the Library of Congress system. Cultural imperialism of the worst kind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I guess the entire 200 section must always be empty then.</i><br />
Goddamn Americans, imposing their goddamned American library classifications on the rest of the world. If it&#8217;s not the Dewey system, it&#8217;s the Library of Congress system. Cultural imperialism of the worst kind.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Woodrowfan</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320151</link>
		<dc:creator>Woodrowfan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320151</guid>
		<description>actually at my local library it&#039;s Catholic Schoolgirl outfits and patent leather shoes.


grrrrrrooowwwllllll</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually at my local library it&#8217;s Catholic Schoolgirl outfits and patent leather shoes.</p>
<p>grrrrrrooowwwllllll</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: pch1013</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320119</link>
		<dc:creator>pch1013</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320119</guid>
		<description>Focus on the Family =

one filthy cum sofa</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Focus on the Family =</p>
<p>one filthy cum sofa</p>
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		<title>By: Hysterical Woman</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320099</link>
		<dc:creator>Hysterical Woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320099</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s probably because I&#039;m a filthy liberal, but I love it when wingnuts complain about having things &quot;shoved down their throat&quot;. 

Nobody is stopping you from putting good wholesome books in the library. It&#039;s just you&#039;re not allowed to take away our evil porn books from the library. Both should be available, and the children will decide what is better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s probably because I&#8217;m a filthy liberal, but I love it when wingnuts complain about having things &#8220;shoved down their throat&#8221;. </p>
<p>Nobody is stopping you from putting good wholesome books in the library. It&#8217;s just you&#8217;re not allowed to take away our evil porn books from the library. Both should be available, and the children will decide what is better.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320079</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320079</guid>
		<description>Banning books does make them more attractive, but the thing that gets me most is how old fashioned the banned books section of libraries seems (and I say that as a Librarian) &lt;i&gt;Lolita&lt;/i&gt; seems almost quaint compared to what living and breathing senators/preachers are doing on a regular basis. And yet, these bozos are worried about what their kids are reading? I&#039;d be tickled that my kid was reading and more concerned about them watching the nightly news, because then I&#039;d have to explain to them about cruising patterns in men&#039;s rooms and why it&#039;s important to always have a partner when you&#039;re stuffing dildos up your ass and wearing double wet suits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Banning books does make them more attractive, but the thing that gets me most is how old fashioned the banned books section of libraries seems (and I say that as a Librarian) <i>Lolita</i> seems almost quaint compared to what living and breathing senators/preachers are doing on a regular basis. And yet, these bozos are worried about what their kids are reading? I&#8217;d be tickled that my kid was reading and more concerned about them watching the nightly news, because then I&#8217;d have to explain to them about cruising patterns in men&#8217;s rooms and why it&#8217;s important to always have a partner when you&#8217;re stuffing dildos up your ass and wearing double wet suits.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Marq</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320072</link>
		<dc:creator>Marq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320072</guid>
		<description>Ahh, shit! Wrong thread to wish g. well in! Does that jinx it or something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh, shit! Wrong thread to wish g. well in! Does that jinx it or something?</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Marq</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320069</link>
		<dc:creator>Marq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320069</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;Perhaps you failed to follow the good Dr. Dobson’s childrearing advice, and you didn’t shower with your son so he can look at your penis.
...and...
 But when you try to get a book removed from a library, you are then telling everyone’s children what they can and cannot read.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, the solution to this one is pretty &lt;i&gt;obvious: &lt;/i&gt;to cut down on fundie parental angst, &quot;papa&quot; should shower with &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;all &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;teh neighborhood children, so they can check-out his wiener.

.

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&lt;i&gt;...what?

P.S. Good luck, g. Take care of yourselves, and don&#039;t get trapped and roasted!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>Perhaps you failed to follow the good Dr. Dobson’s childrearing advice, and you didn’t shower with your son so he can look at your penis.<br />
&#8230;and&#8230;<br />
 But when you try to get a book removed from a library, you are then telling everyone’s children what they can and cannot read.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Well, the solution to this one is pretty <i>obvious: </i>to cut down on fundie parental angst, &#8220;papa&#8221; should shower with <i><b>all </b></i>teh neighborhood children, so they can check-out his wiener.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p><i>&#8230;what?</p>
<p>P.S. Good luck, g. Take care of yourselves, and don&#8217;t get trapped and roasted!</i></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: SemiConscious Dot Org &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Cue Manufactured Outrage in 3&#8230;2&#8230;1&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320065</link>
		<dc:creator>SemiConscious Dot Org &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Cue Manufactured Outrage in 3&#8230;2&#8230;1&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7612.html#comment-320065</guid>
		<description>[...] Luckily, however, Rev. James Dobson is here to protect us from the terrifying menace of gay penguins: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Luckily, however, Rev. James Dobson is here to protect us from the terrifying menace of gay penguins: [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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