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This Must Be That “Compassionate Conservatism” We Keep Hearing About
First it was twelve year old boys, and now it’s injured Iraqi war vets:
How does one decipher whether a person is truly mentally ill, or is exploiting their battle experiences to their fullest advantage?
How do we know if Troy is the person he is because of the battlefield experiences, or if he is choosing to be this person because others are enabling him? Since we’re not hearing from Troy’s pre-war family and friends it is difficult to really know what he was life prior to his tour in Iraq.
I’m very skeptical of Troy’s “problems” and so should others who read this article.
He is capable of rational thought and he is making choices. He choses to swallow pills and watch TV in the dark- to shut himself in…to refuse medical/psych care and, I really wonder- the required services that would make him a better person.
When we enable some people to be the worst they can be, they take advantage and do just that.
Of course, when you read the article, it’s hard to see how someone could come to the conclusion that this vet is faking illness:
Troy’s problems started after his tour. While he was on home leave from Fort Stewart one weekend, Michelle found him sitting on the bed with a bottle of pills. He said he couldn’t go back. Michelle drove him to the Martinsburg VA hospital, which shipped him to Walter Reed for three weeks of psychiatric care.
He was sent back to Fort Stewart and returned to duty, a reality he could not cope with. Twice he tried to commit suicide and was hospitalized at Winn Army Community Hospital before being medically discharged for PTSD in 2004. After 13 years in uniform, Troy got nearly the lowest disability rating possible, a $11,349 severance check and no benefits.
You know, I’ve had jobs I’ve hated before. I mean really, really hated. And I have taken mental health days by calling in sick once or twice in my life. But I can’t recall ever attempting suicide in an effort to get out of going to work. Perhaps in Raven’s world, this is a sign of a malingerer. But when normal people hear a story like this, their first thought isn’t “ooh, what a faker!”; their first thought is “this is a man who is really suffering”.
I love this new version of conservatism. There is nothing too base, too venal, too cold-blooded for them to say. There is no one they won’t smear, no reputation they won’t seek to tarnish, no depth to which they will not sink in order to destroy anything that interferes with their pet narratives about how they think the world works, whether it be ‘government insurance is socialism’ or ‘the Iraq war is a war for civilization and therefore worth any sacrifice (as long as it’s not mine).’ Anything — absolutely anything at all — is acceptable, except for even the barest hint of the thought that they might actually be wrong about something in even the slightest measure.
The only good thing for us is that, as reality becomes ever more obviously divergent from the bizarre pictures of it painted in the minds of people like this, the ranting that comes from them becomes ever more obviously foul and disgusting. It showed in the howling brigades’ smears of Graeme Frost, and it shows here. There is hope that, if most people really are not baying monsters at heart, but decent individuals, the increasing levels of bile coming from those who actually are baying monsters will start to drive the decent people away from them.
In the last week, they’ve stalked a twelve year old with disabilities and called an Iraqi war vet with brain injuries a malingerer. I’m holding out for the trifecta: these guys don’t support the war. Any chance one of you might want to go kick one of them in the face? Be sure to get pictures, so we can all see how brave and patriotic you are.
Update:
Jesus Christ. Raven has taken issue with my characterization of her as a “baying monster,” and has linked to other posts she’s written to demonstrate her infinite compassion for our veterans. Upon reading another account of a soldier who ended up on total disability from post-traumatic stress disorder, her truly bodhisattva-like compassion motived her to say:
You know, when I read lines like this, I lose respect and sympathy…does that make me cruel or cold? I don’t think so. Mr. Awad [the disabled soldier] should realize he is lucky to be alive. He should visit with some of my patients- who are alive, but who have lost it all.
Well. How could I ever have questioned the deeply caring nature of this person? Truly, the shame is mine.
Clif adds:
Kender, a commenter over at Raven’s nest, kicks it up a notch:
The liberal mindset is what causes PTSD. Boys being raised to men without a strong male role model, and having a false sense of what life is about is causing our young men to go to war and come home freaked out.
To which the compassionate Raven squawks:
Kender, there is a lot of truth to what you’ve said.
When we consider that the past wars were much gorier and bloodier. My own father saw a lot of gore; he lost many friends. Yet he managed to move on without letting it get to him; he chose to live his life as he wanted and not to succumb to his ghosts, as I call them.
The men of the past are a lost breed.
Words fail me.
Gavin adds:
Apparently, Raven is trying to ‘win’ the debate by deleting comments unfavorable to her position. Why do people do that?
mdhatter said,
October 14, 2007 at 16:36
truly putting the ‘ass’ back in compassion.
Legalize said,
October 14, 2007 at 16:59
I love “it seems to me” speculation about mental health from someone not qualified to speculate as to one’s mental health. As we all know, “schooling,” “credentials,” “qualification,” and of course “peer review” are all liberal elitist tools.
From citizen-journalist to citizen-psychiatrist.
MzNicky said,
October 14, 2007 at 17:22
This Raven thing has appended to her error-riddled screed an “up yours” note to any Sadly, No!-sers who might stroll by. I see that she has no comments yet on this post, so it’s almost as though she’s daring, or perhaps begging, someone to do so.
DrDick said,
October 14, 2007 at 17:26
Nothing really new here, except that they took off the mask. Modern conservativism (since Goldwater and possibly before) has always been a cesspool. It is at heart an inherently evil philosophy.
sophronia said,
October 14, 2007 at 17:27
I read the articles Raven linked in defense of herself, and suffice it to say I’m a little skeptical of the medical credentials of someone who claims to work with brain-injured patients but doesn’t know how to spell “skull.”
cleter said,
October 14, 2007 at 17:28
The Raven thing has also posted a nightmarish recipe for chili which requires boullion cubes. Truly, she is a monster.
SamFromUtah said,
October 14, 2007 at 17:35
Anything — absolutely anything at all — is acceptable, except for even the barest hint of the thought that they might actually be wrong about something in even the slightest measure.
True. I think part of that is that any admission that they’re wrong entails an admission that the DFHs were right. Further, they assume that if they admit we were right, we’d be as assholish about our position of “power” as they always are.
Perhaps we would and perhaps not - I’m not inclined to lord it over anyone while saying “I told you so” but I totally understand those who are, especially after so many years of triumphalist gloating from the right.
Smiling Mortician said,
October 14, 2007 at 17:36
SO all you Sadly No
suckersreaders, don’t question my compassion. I have far more than most of you will ever begin to understand or know.I must say, that’s a compelling argument. She is truly a formidable opponent, and her closing command is every bit as powerful as the weight of her factual evidence and expert opinion in this matter.
Frog said,
October 14, 2007 at 17:45
You know, it’s really pretty simple. If you want to know about people like Troy–if you want to know about the consequences of head injuries, blast injuries, PTSD, and the like–just go down to your local VA and sign up to be a volunteer.
Heck, you don’t even need to put in that much effort–just grab a seat by the information desk and people-watch.
Before too long, you’ll see a vet come up who looks pretty much fine, if a bit disheveled. He’ll come up to the desk and ask for directions to one clinic or another, and the guy behind the desk will tell him: turn right, go down the hall, take the elevator on your left, go up to the fourth floor, clinic’s on your right.
The vet will thank him, turn around, look around uncertainly for a moment…and then start walking in the wrong direction.
The guy behind the info desk will call to him. You’re going the wrong way, sir. Other way.
This way?
Yes, sir, that way. Elevator on the left by the soda machines, fourth floor, clinic’s on the right side.
Fi–first floor? But I’m ON the first floor!
Four, sir. One two three four.
And the vet will go on down the hall, muttering “one two three four” to himself to keep it in his mind, and he’ll look for the elevator on the right side, which of course does not exist. He will stop every hundred feet or so to ask someone else, pointing to the information on his sheet of paper (and God help him if he loses that). Eventually, having been passed from person to person, he will arrive at the clinic–half an hour late, of course, where the docs (who are used to this) will squeeze him in somehow.
This sort of thing will happen twenty times a day at least.
That won’t tell you about the nightmares, the inability to concentrate, the headaches, the anger, the sudden bouts of crying, the works. For that you’d actually have to, y’know, KNOW SOMEONE WHO HAS THOSE PROBLEMS.
But that would be too difficult. Much easier to sit in front of your computer and malign our veterans by regurgitating the standard conservative pabulum.
Johnny Coelacanth said,
October 14, 2007 at 17:45
mdhatter ftw
And boulion cubes in chili? Really? I figure she lives in the Midwest; what passes for chili in Ohio (fer example) is an abomination.
Gerald Fnord said,
October 14, 2007 at 17:47
Personally, I think it’s fantastic that the more unhinged elements on the Right continue to bray in such a fashion. As the ‘08 elections draw nearer and an ever-increasing number of voters recoil and shock and horror from their verbal sewage, they’re driving the Republican Party straight into a ditch. This can only be a good thing for the country and, indeed, the entire world.
Johnny Coelacanth said,
October 14, 2007 at 17:53
Gerald Fnord? Aw man, I wish I had thought of that. Now I have pseudonym envy.
D. Sidhe said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:00
Johnny, I love your pseudonym. Don’t ever change. There are some genuinely awesome ones around, though, and I admit Gerald Fnord is a winner.
suffice it to say I’m a little skeptical of the medical credentials of someone who claims to work with brain-injured patients but doesn’t know how to spell “skull.”
As we all know, accuracy has an inherently liberal bias.
The Micah said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:03
22,000 of these phony soldiers are trying to shamelessly suck off the public teat, stealing form the pockets of honest ‘Murrican taxpayers. What do you think you’re fighting for, anyway? Socialized medicine?!? Back to the front, buddy, and don’t come back until you’ve gotz mah freedomz!
Johnny Coelacanth said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:18
Thanks for the kind words, D. They help alleviate the sting of knowing I’m not the smartest Discordian Pope at Sadly No.
billy pilgrim said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:21
Incidentally, I believe Gerald’s pseud was suggested when HTML was looking for a new one, and when he settled on Mencken, Gerald jumped up to claim it. Well played, sir!
Cold. This Raven person is so cold she can’t even feign warmth, like most of the wingnut regulars can. She doesn’t even mouth the words correctly.
I agree that theses Compassionate Conservatives should be allowed to roam as free as possible as the face of the Modern Republican Party; soon people wil recoil in instinctive disgust when one is met, like a member of NAMBLA or The Jeff Dahmer Recipe Club.
Mikey smells like shit said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:21
Compassionate conservatism as opposed to liberal anti-americanism.
Hysterical Woman said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:22
Yeah, he’s going from doctor to doctor, filling out endless forms and waiting in endless waiting rooms, taking medicine with possibly horrible side effects, spending hours in therapy, and wrangling with bureaucrats just for that sweet $11,349 severance check (with no benefits!).
Hysterical Woman said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:24
Shut up troll. Troy is America.
paul said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:24
My dear Frog, you expect these people to take time away from the productive lives to volunteer at a VA hospital? That whole “1000 points of light” thing is so last century. Now we’re all about malingerers being enabled by people who claim to care for them but in reality are just stealthy troop haters who want the terrorists to win. The more soldiers they can keep in the VA hospitals claiming to be “ill” the sooner the worldwide caliphate.
Bwahahahahaha!!!
<ahem> If I worked at the institution she claims to, I’d make sure everyone got a chance to enjoy her opinions, if I had to shellac it to the break room door.
Mikey smells like shit said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:24
You kids crack me up. I think i’ll go eat my beef stagenoff.
Mikey smells like shit.
Propane said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:26
For a nurse, this Raven has very little medical experience and about as much debating any topic, for that matter.
Does the US really need nurses that badly?
Mudge said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:28
Those like Raven never miss an opportunity to use the one as an example for the many. Did she choose this soldier and hypothesize he is being used or manipulated as a singular example? I doubt it. It is one of their many consistent behaviors. Every time a liberal cites a specific instance of, let’s say over-reaction by a soldier, it is conflated into a condemnation of the entire military because when they cite a specific example it is meant as a condemnation of the whole.
Any compassion she has is likely an exception to the rule.
Mikey smells like shit said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:29
Thats because real Americans know that liberals hate the military.
Mikey smells like shit.
Mikey smells like shit said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:34
Did I mention liberals also hate America and Western Civilization. Ummm! This beef stagenoff is good!
Mikey smells like shit.
The Micah said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:36
From Raven’s “about me”
Sounds like grade A, 100% sociopath to me. And I think she was probably faking her heroin addiction. Just my professional opinion as a video director.
Christina said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:40
“Thats because real Americans know that liberals hate the military.”
We hate them so much that we want to keep them alive, get them out of a war zone that never should’ve existed in the first place, give them the medical care they need, pay them an appropriate wage and get them the proper equipment that will save their lives.
What horrible hatred! How could we be so heartless!
Righteous Bubba said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:41
Gerald Fnord? Aw man, I wish I had thought of that. Now I have pseudonym envy.
Plenty of names to steal back here.
I loved that thread.
Mikey smells like shit said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:42
Remember your “General Betraty Us” add my dear Christina.
Hysterical Woman said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:42
Kill file please. Shit-smeller is a dull troll.
Mikey smells like shit said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:44
I can win a political debate against any of you with half my brain tied behind my back.
Mikey smells like shit.
humboldthoney said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:45
Damn, why can’t these mentally ill, suicidal vets just snap their fingers and get better?
Christina said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:46
He did.
Twice.
MrWonderful said,
October 14, 2007 at 18:55
Isn’t it obvious? Please.
“Twice he tried to commit suicide…”
If he were really suffering, and not malingering and faking it, he would have succeeded in committing suicide *both times.* He would have made a true good-faith effort to kill himself. Instead, the proof is right in front of you moondawgs, or dingbats, or whatever you are. If he’s still alive, he’s guilty. If he were dead (twice), then he really did deserve some help.
The conservative mindset: bringing you the Salem witch trials for over 300 years.
ThresherK said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:00
“Is it irresponsible to speculate?
No, it is irresponsible NOT to.”
kiki said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:06
Dear pathetic troll,
I find it very strange that no one here wants to debate you. Why, your nickname alone is a clear indicator that you come here in good faith, in search of a reasoned and unbiased exchange of ideas.
History books recount the famous debate between Plato and Plato Is A Big Poopypants in Ancient Greece. I think that’s similar to what’s happening here.
Jane Hamsher said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:07
Jesus tapdancing Christ. Nurse Ratched lives.
SamFromUtah said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:12
Why, your nickname alone is a clear indicator that you come here in good faith, in search of a reasoned and unbiased exchange of ideas.
Yup - but it is handy when the really st00pid trolls identify exactly whose arguments are causing them to froth and poo-fling right up front.
g said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:17
Compassionate conservatism as opposed to liberal anti-americanism.
Two myths. See?
The Kenosha Kid said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:18
I’ve been an EMT for just over a yr and haven’t seen any suicide attempts.
And you lieberals say she has no medical experience!
Lolly said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:37
OK, so she’s an ER nurse and an EMT . . . AND a former heroin addict?
If there’s any record of her former addiction (arrests, court ordered rehab, etc) would she ever be allowed to get an RN or EMT license?
My guess is, no. But is there someone here who knows more about the licensing process for medical professionals?
mikey said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:42
I’m sorry. I’ve been in the shower.
I kind of smelled…
mikey
Dora said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:43
The bio that was posted says she “works in nursing” and that she’s an EMT. My guess, as a RN, is that she “works” as a nurses aide.
We Love America More Than Anyone. » truly sick people. said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:43
[...] need help. all of them. Filed under: The Outrages — JasonC @ 12:43 [...]
mikey said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:45
As for the point of the post.
I don’t think I’m going to weigh in on whether PTSD is “real” or whether this dude was “faking it”.
Either you’ve seen it, understand it on a visceral level, or you don’t.
If you’re among those who think we should just “gut it out”, fuck you.
If you care about the soldiers we send out to commit our crimes, you care about the broken ones at least as much as the whole ones. I think it just gets more and more obvious which “side” of the American political debate truly supports the troops, and which side just wants war, and more war.
mikey
Dora said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:47
To answer Lolly, there would be license restrictions. I highly doubt they’d ever be able to have access to any kind of narcotic again.
paul said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:49
Lolly, I think you’re right: a conviction would most likely bar someone from getting a license to drive around in a van full of pain-killers. Seriously, I think sharing her shrewd diagnostic examples with her peers and superiors would be a public service. This is not someone I would want as a caregiver.
sherifffruitfly said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:49
Um, I don’t think “venal” means what you think it means. At any rate, it’s hard to see how “able to be bribed” fits in there.
Gavin M. said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:50
It’s interesting that some right-winger would choose this thread to anonymously attack a combat vet.
Class in abundance!
shrimplate said,
October 14, 2007 at 19:58
Most states have programs for nurses who suffer addictions. Here in ‘Zona it’s called CANDO. The basic idea is to help the nurse retain their career and maintain sobriety. A past addiction doesn’t usually disqualify a nurse from licensure.
However, drug diversion and untreated addiction is taken *very* seriously by state nursing boards, and it is simply not tolerated. Punishment is immediate and severe.
g said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:02
Raven’s the kind of blogger who can’t help but jump into the comments with two feet. So she reveals a lot more than her original post does.
Among other things, she answers the guy who says “How do you diagnose a medical condition remotely - what’s your experience?” by claiming her EMT experience, then compromising it by saying she’s never seen an attempted suicide; then she announces her personal experience at attempting suicide (as if that gives you insight into the reasons all sufferers might attempt it) and then says “but that’s irrelevant.”
So basically, she reinforces the point made that she’s full of shit and doesn’t know what she’s talking about.
thelogos said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:02
If by “baying monster” you mean “cold-hearted cowardly cunt rag”, then you are spot on.
Jo Fish said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:02
Yeassss… we liberals fucking hate the Military. I guess I spent 13 years in the wrong place, filled with Malkin-like self-hate.
And here I thought “In the Navy” was just a Village People song that used to help me get laid in Pensacola.
mikey said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:08
It’s interesting that some right-winger would choose this thread to anonymously attack a combat vet.
Y’know, other than having issues with the way I smell (and c’mon, who doesn’t?), dude didn’t really attack me. He does mindless shorthand Ruppertesqe talking points that make no sense, claims victory in the “debate”, and goes back to internet porn. I’m really not consequential to his argument.
And I’m going upstairs right now for more deodorant…
mikey
Dan said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:11
The liberal mindset is what causes PTSD. Boys being raised to men without a strong male role model, and having a false sense of what life is about is causing our young men to go to war and come home freaked out.
Cause nobody came home shell-shocked from World Wars I and II.
That’s why they invented the term “shell-shocked,” cause it’s a totally imaginary thing that had never actually happened to anybody.
Pat Rahikainen said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:13
That person using the name “raven” is an insult to every big, black, squawky bird out there.. if she truly is in the mental health field I pity every one of her patients.
I was diagnosed with PTSD, altho I’ve never been in battle, from the trauma I went through in dealing with a severely mentally ill husband while attempting also trying to raise our infant son.
bargal20 said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:13
Um, in that last quote of Raven’s, did she hint that she wanted to breed with her dad?
Dora said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:16
an EMT doesn’t diagnose–remotely or not. Only an MD can diagnose. An EMT is trained to respond to emergency situations. They practice under protocols established by physicians. They stablize patients so they can transport to an ER to be diagnosed and treated by an MD.
g said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:16
if she truly is in the mental health field I pity every one of her patients.
I imagine Raven’s co-workers talk about her behind her back.
Silver Owl said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:18
Raven needs to stick to her Disney movies because adulthood is too difficult and complicated for her. Maybe in between princess outfit changing Raven could get up off her lazy ass and do her research on PTSD.
By Raven’s attitude her father never ever discussed what happened to his war buddies that lived and came home. He, like most, probably sheltered her from that part of his life. I do not believe that he shared any of his nightmares or sleepless nights with her either. Another aspect that most rarely talk or talked about especially to their children. I’m betting she was kept in the dark about quite a bit of his experiences. I have to wonder why she never asked her mother about any changes in her father when he came back from war. There are always changes.
The childishness, immaturity and fairy tale believing mindset of today’s conservatives is stunning. The whole attitude that every man who comes back from war is a pussy if he’s not acting like a John Wayne character is a problem. It is one of the main problems as to why those who do need treatment do not get it.
Typical Republican said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:20
This Raven person even makes ME sick.
But I’m still voting Republican in 2008 because the mindless corporate warmongering posing as patriotism of (fill in the blank) is better than the blatant CommunistIslamomexifascist sympathies of (fill in the blank).
Liberals. Hmf.
Principal Blackman said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:26
22,000 of these phony soldiers are trying to shamelessly suck off the public teat, stealing form the pockets of honest ‘Murrican taxpayers.
ZOMGSOCIALISM!!!eleven! Somebody investigate their countertops!
a different brad said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:29
I’m torn on this.
On one hand, this woman is obviously a piece of shit of the first degree, a failure in life who embraced the “don’t think just obey” ethos of the right because she couldn’t handle her own shit and needed to find an escape from personal responsibility. Her whole “no one held my hand because i’m a vicious, rabid beast” based lack of sympathy deserves eternal mocking.
On the other hand, she’s trolling for attention, and will probably blogwhore this little event all over her corner of the assholosphere by crying victimization and crowing about getting libs to notice her. I don’t mean to fault Jillian in the tiniest little bit, but should some cries for attention be ignored?
greg said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:32
Raven should have met my wife’s grandfather, a vet of the Italian and African campaigns of WWII. He was a shell of the young man who went overseas in 1943. It was only months before his death last year that we learned he had been receiving disability benefits for “shell shock” for most of the last 60 years.
This poor guy was always relegated to a corner on family get-togethers because all he could do was recount his war stories, embellishing them a little bit from year to year. He slept on the living room couch for decades because his nightmares would disturb the family if he was in his own bed. His employment was limited to jobs where he had little contact with others because he had trouble dealing with even the slightest conflicts.
And yet, through all of this, he was still a loving and caring soul who cherished his kids, grandkids and great-grandkids. He would spend days at a time teaching his offspring how to hunt, fish and live off the land in the woods of northern Minnesota. That was his thing.
Two years ago, his grandson came back from Iraq after his Minnesota National Guard unit was sent over. The grandson’s parents had been huge ditto-heads who used to spout crap like “There is a better chance of him getting killed on a street corner in Philadelphia than there is in Iraq.” When he came home and his parents continued to be war cheerleaders, he moved away with his wife and two daughters because he was so disgusted by his own parents inability to understand what was going on. He did, however, keep in contact with his grandfather, who was by then in the nursing home wing of a VA hospital.
And if the Grandfather were still alive, and Raven was one of his attendees, I am pretty sure that he would have refused any treatment from her after reading some of her self-righteous crap. He was that kind of guy.
Mudge said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:37
It is expected that the un-politically correct Raven would take offense at Sadly No! and its commenters, since of course, this site is the most politically correct, and Serious, site in the whole universe and always has been. Always.
mikey said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:42
Nope. Raven doesn’t even have the first clue.
You get home, you’re not SCARED. You’re not quaking in fear. You have every reason not be. Clean sheets, 24 hour px and generator, and no one’s trying to kill you. You fought. You didn’t run. You’re NOT A COWARD!
And you tell yourself that when you do speed to stay awake because the dreams will come if you don’t. You tell yourself when you drink until you can’t remember. You tell yourself that when you start to cry for no reason at all, in the middle of the day. When you can’t hold a job, can’t stay in one place, can’t listen to the same banal conversation. Can’t love, can’t trust, can’t BREATHE!!
But still, you know you’re not some pussy. You know what you are capable of. You know you don’t break, you don’t run, you hold the fucking line, you put out rounds, you DO YOUR JOB!
So while part of you keeps asking “what the fuck is WRONG with me” the other half figures out how to self-medicate, keep moving, make new friends to replace the ones you drove away last week. Just get on a bike and roll. Occasional stops in county jails for doing weird shit you just can’t explain why you did it.
And either eventually you find a way to get some help with it all, or you die, too young and alone.
So Raven, and all of you who talk out your ass with no real information or experience? Fuck you….
mikey
Troy said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:43
oh FFS. My grandfather grew up the oldest of 12 kids in rural central Washington, reached adulthood right when the country entered the Great Depression, poached deer for survival in the 30s, then joined the USMC at age 31 in 1942 to fight as an infantryman on Peleliu and Okinawa, then deploy to China to disarm the Japanese garrisons there.
He was one of the few survivors of his company to survive both battles; he came back from the war totally fucked up from his nightmarish combat experiences.
The diferrence between WW2 and Iraq is that my grandfather was only in combat for ~2 months out of those 3 years spent in uniform, while our warfighters in Iraq are exposed to combat stress every goddamn day of their tour.
owlbear1 said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:46
and of course, its ‘Libs’ who will spit on the troops…
sarah said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:48
Dora, it isn’t just md’s who can diagnose. I’m a LCSW, and I have the training and credentialling to treat and diagnose mental illnesses, including personality disorders. While ethically speaking I don’t think it is a good idea to diagnose people I haven’t been able to do a complete assessment of, I’m going to throw ethics out the window and diagnose Raven as borderline personality disorder with narcissistic and anti-social traits. Oh, and also as a “See You Next Tuesday.”
Lesley said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:51
After today, Raven will be screening comments and turning mirrors to face the wall.
It’s not every day you’re called what you are: an illiterate, ignorant, hateful douchebag.
craig said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:53
On full disability due to PTSD here, struggling to recover, not doing too well, my challenge every day is just to feed myself and do basic hygiene, and I’m failing at that…. and I’m not a combat vet. I can’t imagine what that’s like to be a combat vet. I kindof see that type of PTSD as almost a different thing… I don;t think I would have survived it.
I deal with the constant crap from people, saying “you don’t look disabled to me,” calling me a con man, as if I LIKE being a nonfunctional shut-in in a one room shithole with below-poverty level income… as if I like struggling every day in the hopes of one day being able to simply take care of myself. But I can understand people not getting it, thinking PTSD is just only vets…
But someone like this moron who questions PTSD IN VETS…. that’s the ultimate level of cluelessness. Maybe it’s hard to understand someone having PTSD from childhood abuse, molestation, abandonment, serial killers in the household, near-fatal accidents, etc… but COMBAT?
What’s amazing to me is that some people come out of combat WITHOUT PTSD. That’s what’s unbelievable… though of course I also realize that many more have PTSD than are diagnosed.
That’s the thing about the right wing - so many of these people that deny mental illness in others are also denying it in themselves… for what better explanation is there for people like that - like Bill O’Reilly, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, etc., than that they clearly have personality disorders?
El Cid said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:55
I think a lot more vets would heal up so that they could go back and fight in Iraq some more if they could spend more time with right wingers telling them their problems are all in their heads, they’re lucky to be alive, and they need to get their a**es back to the field to fight all those Moooozlims that frighten right wing pundits so badly.
Julius said,
October 14, 2007 at 20:56
Don’t forget the Freepers that a few weeks ago beat up the crap out of the father of a soldier killed in Iraq. This took place during the last peace rally in D.C. Carlos Arredondo, whose son was killed in service in Iraq, was viciously beaten by a gang of Freeper “Eagles”. This is the conservative movement in America:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/24/113720/185
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/09/20/gold-star-father-who-lost-son-in-iraq-allegedly-beaten-by-members-of-pro-war-group/
Doodle-Bean said,
October 14, 2007 at 21:07
Ah yes, the ‘Gathering of Bird Brains‘ — beating up a Gold Star father in the name of freedom of speech and non-violent ‘defense’ of ‘their’ Vietnam memorial.
They are a choice bunch. And they have such great taste in tee-shirts!
g said,
October 14, 2007 at 21:09
craig - good wishes to you, and strength. It says a lot that you can come away from the experiences you have had and still have empathy and compassion for other people.
cw said,
October 14, 2007 at 21:09
The cult of conservatism continues down its alternate reality road.
These are people who were willing to cast aspersions on EVERY Purple Heart recipient - any medal recipient - in our nation’s history just so they could slime their political opponent and to condition their cult further right and further away from reality.
This is what they think of our military –
http://www.projo.com/blogs/shenews/photos/purpleheart.jpg
They showed once again they could tell their followers to eat a dog turd and they would follow Spot around with a knife and fork.
Face it, conservatism is truly bereft of principles but like any good cult they are conditioned to think dragging the nation and world to hell in support of that cultic alternate reality is a good thing. They are conditioned into thinking having the entire world hate you is a good thing. Look at how easily the chowder heads foamed about Gore winning the NPP. And they accuse the left of “hating” Bush. ( understand the reason they have trained their followers to say that – “You just hate Bush” – is a cult control tactic. If you can say your detractors are insane with hate you don’t have to deal with the reality of what they say. This is the first thing any moonie does when one is critical of that group. “you are insane with hate for True Father.”)
What we are seeing now is what many of us saw coming down the road years ago as the conditioned cultic world view is reinfornced day after day by Rush and the gang. Rush talks to his cult 3 hours a day, five days a week - that is more than Koresh conditioned his followers..literally.., and like any cult when they are exposed - and the world does see them as living in an alternate reality and a huge sad joke – a group that thinks the world is 5000 years old and Iraq is huge success for instance - when they feel exposed they will attack anything they perceive as a threat to their cult controlled ideology. They are NOT insane, they are conditioned, controlled. This is a huge problem our short sighted nation will not discuss.
Conservatism continues to be major national and world security problem.
Lesley said,
October 14, 2007 at 21:11
people exposed to violence or the threat of violence for long periods of time are in a constant state of adrenalin rush. This alters brain chemistry:
The Micah said,
October 14, 2007 at 21:14
Poor wittle Waven. She got what she wanted, all right, and she didn’t have to almost commit suicide to get it. Still, it took the poor twit 15 minutes to figure out how to delete my comments :-D Leslie, you’re next for deletion - KNOW THAT AND TREMBLE!
g said,
October 14, 2007 at 21:16
Gary Ruppert visited Raven:
Gary Ruppert says
The fact is that true Republican veterans of Iraq never experience PSTD.
I never sevred in Iraq because, like Raven, the experience of being under fire would cause embarrassing loss of bowel control, but I speak from the knowledge of my extensive reading of Republican weblogs.
October 14th, 2007 | #
I call Fake Gary at Raven’s place!
norbizness said,
October 14, 2007 at 21:24
Ah, Nurse Wretched.
TomMil said,
October 14, 2007 at 21:34
I have survived heroin addiction and the life that supported it. Don’t mess with me.
For those demanding proof of Raven’s history of addiction to heroin, “and the life that supported it”, she still gets monthly flair ups from her days as a junky whore. So check back next month. I like how the drug history is supposed to make her tough. Most junkies I’ve met are/were running away from something. Now that I’ve seen Raven’s character I understand her motivation to stay stoned. She disgusts herself, and rightfully so!!
D. Sidhe said,
October 14, 2007 at 21:34
Craig and mikey, I seriously owe you guys a drink someday.
Fuck ‘em all. If they don’t get it, there’s nothing in there for us to explain it to.
Lesley said,
October 14, 2007 at 21:38
From Raven’s web site:
Also, “jarheads make me horny”
(as long as they’re not mentally ill from exposure to war and shit).
TheOtherWA said,
October 14, 2007 at 21:39
When we consider that the past wars were much gorier and bloodier.
No, you moron. War is always gory and bloody. The American media refuse to show the blood and gore because it would offend the delicate sensibilities of their viewers.
Then the flying monkey right claims there is no blood and gore because they haven’t seen any.
Stuff like this makes my head spin.
MzNicky said,
October 14, 2007 at 21:42
Lolly, shrimplate et al, re: nursing and drugs — A friend of my daughter’s was fired from her nursing position and lost her license when she tested positive for pot and painkillers during a routine drug test. As someone pointed out, the nursing boards do take that sort of thing very seriously.
Also, I’m thinking maybe Raven’s daddy made her watch “Patton” with him a few too many times.
DEMIZE! said,
October 14, 2007 at 21:55
My only recommendation for folks like this to administer a severe beating to them,one where you look at them on the floor and say,you are my bitch now,leave them confused and in pain and walk away.Then let’s see if they man up and just gut it out.I’m sorry if I sound like a dick here,but.This gets me on a visceral level.These attacks are atavistic and require an atavistic response.My fucking HEAD HURTS…
DEMIZE! said,
October 14, 2007 at 22:00
#
TomMil said,
October 14, 2007 at 21:34
“I have survived heroin addiction and the life that supported it. Don’t mess with me.
For those demanding proof of Raven’s history of addiction to heroin, “and the life that supported it”, she still gets monthly flair ups from her days as a junky whore. So check back next month. I like how the drug history is supposed to make her tough. Most junkies I’ve met are/were running away from something. Now that I’ve seen Raven’s character I understand her motivation to stay stoned. She disgusts herself, and rightfully so!!” Hey all you guys,apropos of this blather.This is my 12th.Anniversary clean & sober!So all you guys have a drink on me if your’e so inclined.Carry on you beautiful bastards!!1!1!!!1
DEMIZE! said,
October 14, 2007 at 22:02
Tom Mil, I didn’t mean you were blathering,I meant the Trog.
mikey said,
October 14, 2007 at 22:19
“I have survived heroin addiction and the life that supported it. Don’t mess with me.
What does that even mean?
“I have survived being hit by a car. Don’t mess with me.”
“A dog bit me once. Don’t mess with me.”
“One time, at band camp? I put my clarinet in my ass. Don’t mess with me.”
mikey
D. Sidhe said,
October 14, 2007 at 22:29
Apparently, Raven is trying to ‘win’ the debate by deleting comments unfavorable to her position. Why do people do that?
Yeah, why would anyone do that? Hey, I still wanna know which one of you deleted my Spam Chowder comment in an earlier thread! I am a Spamcook, not a Spamblog! Also, the moron is back. Seriously starting to think that maybe you guys *should* ban *.info.
Lesley said,
October 14, 2007 at 22:32
Raven’s ladeling bacon chili down her throat. later today she’ll be blogging farts.
cal1942 said,
October 14, 2007 at 22:35
” I love this new version of conservatism. There is nothing too base, too venal, too cold-blooded for them to say.”
NEW. What’s new about it? They’ve always been this way. They were like that in the 40s, 50s and on and on.
I can’t count the number of times in my life that I’ve had to listen to Republicans from well-to-do families rail away about other people’s misfortune. “it’s all their fault … they’re faking … they should have known better … etc., etc.”
Like the people I’ve known over the years, Raven and her commenters have no experience ‘walking in others’ shoes’.
The commenters’ rant about liberals and PTSD is among the more ridiculous statements. Perhaps they’ve never heard of the many tormented veterans of WWII. Apparently hard-scrabble life during the depression didn’t grant them immunity from PTSD.
AND, I’ll bet that neither Raven nor her cohorts ever saw one moment of combat.
RandomObserver said,
October 14, 2007 at 22:40
Damn liberal complainers! You still have some limbs - STFU!
Unless her dad is 200 years old he fought in a time where PTSD was common. PTSD has been around for a long time, it just didn’t have a good name.
Shell-shock has been diagnosed since the early 1900s at least. Maybe her father fought in the War of 1812?
If you are going to romaticize the past at least do it in a way that isn’t easily proven false. It’s great to believe that manly conservative men of yore simply didn’t get PTSD, unfortunately that’s as realistic as believing they rode Unicorns into battle.
There is nothing these people won’t blame on liberals. Shoot a bunch of people? Must be a liberal. Get shot by that guy? Must be a liberal. Lose some limbs in battle? Must be a liberal. Have PTSD? Must be a liberal. Makes perfect sense.
Lesley said,
October 14, 2007 at 22:47
kender’s troll user profile
Blogs:
Stop The ACLU
TestingTestes123
Anti-Castratti
deaf people suck
Troll Turds
Kenders’ Musings
TROLL DROPPINGS
Ravings of a Mad Tech
g said,
October 14, 2007 at 22:49
Like the people I’ve known over the years, Raven and her commenters have no experience ‘walking in others’ shoes’.
Even their experience with challenging life situations - aka Raven’s supposed experience with drug addiction - doesn’t inspire empathy or understanding. I think it’s because they have a heaping helping of self-loathing - so even if they have experienced something like trauma, or struggle, or weakness, they can only transfer their own self-hatred to others who happen to share their experience.
Unless her dad is 200 years old he fought in a time where PTSD was common
Random, I’m sure there were Cro-Magnons who raided other Cro-Magnon settlements with iron or bronze swords who returned home changed by the experience.
Doug said,
October 14, 2007 at 22:51
There is nothing inherently wrong with being a conservative. It all depends on how one goes about it. And there is a use for honest conservatives; they can put the brakes on us when we sometimes get carried away.
Unfortunately, nowadays an honest conservative is a very rare bird indeed.
Larry Darrell said,
October 14, 2007 at 22:52
WWI left no mental scars, take my word for it. Oh wait.
Balloon Juice said,
October 14, 2007 at 23:12
[...] Sadly, No! details how some on the right support the troops (hint: they call them [...]
MO said,
October 14, 2007 at 23:12
I worked with elders and people with disabilities for several years. We always knew we’d scraped the bottom of the barrel of moral bankruptcy and incompetence when someone who was supposed to be helping these folks would proclaim “it could be worse” or “you’re lucky to be alive”.
People who spout that crap are completely detached from healthy human emotions and their thinking ability ain’t so hot either.
Southern Beale said,
October 14, 2007 at 23:14
You’re all wrong! Kender is truly compassionate! Just look at Kender’s awesome compassionate blog DeafPeopleSuckAss.com:
“MONDAY, DECEMBER 19, 2005
“Welcome to Deaf People Suck Ass!!!
“I started this blog because with all of the groups out there that scream about being marginalized and discriminated against there is still one group of people that feel they can take out there frustrations on a large segment of society and so far nobody has said one thing to them about it, probably for fear of being labeled something or other.
“I, on the other hand, am going to say something about it, probably starting a war in the process.”
With compassion like that I’m sure you can see how Kender supports teh troops! Liebral loosers!
/sarcasm
Jack Hughes said,
October 14, 2007 at 23:21
According to the new Ken Burns documentary “The War,” 25% of all medical evacuations from combat were for psychiatric reasons.
Those malingerers must not have had strong male role models.
Lesley said,
October 14, 2007 at 23:39
Raven’s now blocking people from accessing her server.
paul said,
October 14, 2007 at 23:42
so far nobody has said one thing to them about it,
Of course, no one has said anything to them about it. They’re deaf. What would be the point?
Geez, some people can’t even get their hate on properly.
Wek said,
October 14, 2007 at 23:50
Raven-
If you or your wingnut defenders are out there, you’re more than welcome to continue the discussion here!
XOXO
Monkeyfister said,
October 14, 2007 at 23:50
Well,
Raven shut down the PTSD comments thread. So, I sent my personal, Disabled Veteran love letter:
Looky here… if you have doubts, like Raven does, then, BEFORE you decide to type up some outrageous, anti-veteran screed about Phony Liberal Veterans, and their mother-coddled upbringing, I ask you, I beg you, I implore you– I DARE you to go down to your local VA Medical Center, and sign up to volunteer a few days, for a week, a month– whatever period you’ve got time to give.
Until you’ve been there, seen it and experienced it– you don’t have a fucking clue about what you’re writing, and you WILL come off as a TOTAL ASSHOLE.
The rewards for your volunteering will be great: We Disabled Veterans will thank you more than you have ever been thanked, your world-view WILL be changed, and you will at LEAST have the experience to use as credential. I suggest that you seek out the Neurology Lab, The Psych Lab, and the Ortho Lab.
You bunch of heartless motherfuckers need to get some things straight in your non-combat, non-veteran basements– there are wounds that you cannot see, wounds that you simply cannot appreciate until they inhabit YOUR skin.
Until you’ve volunteered, until you’ve worked with us, and have gotten to understand us, until you see what this war is creating– Read This, and then kindly shut the fuck up. On this topic, you.are.already.over. The shark is in your wake.
Stumbling upon your post here really tore me up in the wake of their attack on the Frost Boy. These people will do and say and attack anything that makes their Daddy Figure look bad, won’t they? How can they be SO married to a single, totally flawed, absolutely incompetent leader? Even the hardest of hardened Democrats took their turns sinking the shivs into Carter and Clinton– one would expect SOME divergence from the wingnut crowd into reality with this sort of rhetoric and behavior. Some party stepping out, and saying, “Whoa– these folks don’t speak for me.” But, no. John Cole seems to be the only one. Meanwhile, the nuts just double-down.
Astounding.
–mf
Monkeyfister
(DAV-USN/Desert Storm)
cleter said,
October 14, 2007 at 23:53
Raven is blocked now? It’s probably my fault. I probably sent her over the edge when I criticized her vile chili.
nitpicker said,
October 14, 2007 at 23:54
Raven says in comments that she has a lot of experience dealing with PTSD patients and that’s what’s led her to feel that the “man written about in the WAPO article just doesn’t fit my experiences…something isn’t right.” Of course, the man in the article fits exactly with the description of PTSD found in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, otherwise known as the DSM-IV.
The essential feature of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder is the development of characteristic symptoms following exposure to an extreme traumatic stressor involving direct personal experience of an event that involves actual or threatened death or serious injury, or other threat to one’s physical integrity; or witnessing an event that involves death, injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of another person; or learning about unexpected or violent death, serious harm, or threat of death or injury experienced by a family member or other close associate (Criterion A1). The person’s response to the event must involve intense fear, helplessness, or horror (or in children, the response must involve disorganized or agitated behavior) (Criterion A2). The characteristic symptoms resulting from the exposure to the extreme trauma include persistent reexperiencing of the traumatic event (Criterion B), persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (Criterion C), and persistent symptoms of increased arousal (Criterion D). The full symptom picture must be present for more than 1 month (Criterion E), and the disturbance must cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning (Criterion F).
Monkeyfister said,
October 14, 2007 at 23:57
Oh–
To be clear, my letter to Raven ends with the word, “wake.”
The last graph is for you all.
–mf
(DAV, USN/Desert Storm)
Hoosier X said,
October 14, 2007 at 23:59
Is there such a thing? I can not quite get my head around the concept. Maybe if I had seen or heard one in recent years, I would not be so skeptical.
Unicorns I find much more plausible. With leprechauns ridng on their backs.
Monkeyfister said,
October 15, 2007 at 0:04
Nitpicker!
Bravo Zulu to you, Brother! and a salute!
–mf
g said,
October 15, 2007 at 0:05
Raven says in comments that she has a lot of experience dealing with PTSD patients and that’s what’s led her to feel that the “man written about in the WAPO article just doesn’t fit my experiences…something isn’t right.”
Yes, and then further down in her comments she reveals her “experience” as being an EMT for one (1) year, and not treating any suicide attempts. In the same comment she goes on to say she herself contemplated suicide once, but that her experience was not relevant.
So, basically, whatever it was that lead her to feel “something isn’t right” was just pulled out of her ass.
I imagine that’s where the compassionate part of her resides.
The American Street » Blog Archive » Attacking the war wounded: the new conservative sport said,
October 15, 2007 at 0:07
[...] Sadly No!, Jillian reports on the fresh attack on our war wounded by a New Hampshire conservative, who believes a shell-shocked veteran spiralling downhill is actively choosing his pain and [...]
Dr Zen said,
October 15, 2007 at 0:18
Apparently, we dumbasses that preach compassion are the problem. And here was me thinking the fucktards who think invading other people’s countries and killing them are good ideas were the problem.
Dr Zen said,
October 15, 2007 at 0:20
“But I am totally ashamed at how you all just come over and attack like this- but alas, you’re Democrats and thats what they do. Attack. Accuse. Make assumptions.”–Raven
LOL! Teh irony! It burns!
RandomObserver said,
October 15, 2007 at 0:37
Oh, I’m sure too, I was just saying that PTSD and variant names have been documented as medical diagnoses for 100 years.
Althought I don’t thing Cro-Magons used iron and broze swords…
Righteous Bubba said,
October 15, 2007 at 0:39
If Cro-Magnons have something against the broze then FUCK THEM.
Don Drennon said,
October 15, 2007 at 0:53
…even the comments which are still up are quite revealing: I wonder if she is aware of just what a comprehensive smack-down her world-view is getting on her forum.
Highly recommended.
jim said,
October 15, 2007 at 0:54
Man.
They didn’t always call it “post-traumatic stress disorder”. Back in World War I, they called it “shellshock”.
I guess the weak parenting of these World War I soldiers, was accomplished by shape-shifting 1970’s liberals travelling backwards through time?
But of course the real answer is, these conservatives here don’t have a rational position, they have a *rationalizing* position. That’s why the logic gets more twisted the closer you look at it. It’s not a source of an outlook, but a defense of it - the outlook they’re trying to defend is:
a) conservative leaders only lead us into good wars
b) conservative Americans are all only good people
So, evidence that this is not a “good war” must be batted off with some variations of the following illogic:
c) good wars don’t actually hurt good people
d) therefore pain caused by good wars must be an illusion or a lie
Don Drennon said,
October 15, 2007 at 0:54
…on the other hand, the chili looks quite tasty. Just sayin’.
Kevin Hayden said,
October 15, 2007 at 0:56
As a Real Professional and a He-Man, here’s my review of her ailment.
Her profile and commentary indicate she suffers from a longing for a mythical rock of a man who never displayed pain and discomfort to hold her and love her for her pure princessness. Lacking that, she plunged into the abyss of complete narcissism by choosing heroin addiction. (Funny that so many us lifelong liberals never considered even trying that; must be a conservative thing).
Now she’s divorced, happy with that and convinced such men like her dream don’t exist any more. She lives for the day that genetic engineering will grant her the chance to create such a customized creature so at last she can know true love.
Medical professionals in her world question PTSD, but it’s absolutely accepted in the world of the other 6 billion people on the planet.
And she’s raising her daughters with a dedication to drink beer and cuss like a sailor.
.Diagnosis and prescription: There is no cure for terminal narcissism but she’d likely find comfort giving enemas to a stoic Osama Bin Laden just for the chance to scarf some pan drippings.
Wek said,
October 15, 2007 at 0:57
Raven ended the thread with a final (predictable) comment:
October 14th, 2007 | #
Raven says
Hey this has been educational folks.
Thank you Sadly No readers: You have proven to me, once again by the tone of the comments here, that I made the right choice by changing my politics. I used to be just like you all. Rightfully I changed my mindset when I saw too many people taking advantage of your liberal views; too many government programs enabling the able to not take care of their own.
I am so content I am no longer a Democrat. But I am totally ashamed at how you all just come over and attack like this- but alas, you’re Democrats and thats what they do. Attack. Accuse. Make assumptions. And nothing else.
You’re all losers as far as I’m concerned and I am proud to no longer be politically associated with your lot.
Percyprune said,
October 15, 2007 at 0:58
It’s the old lawyer’s trick: deny, traverse and counterclaim.
Wek said,
October 15, 2007 at 1:03
“Attack. Accuse. Make assumptions.”
Uhhhhhhh, ain’t this what she did with the Serviceman suffering from PTSD?
cleter said,
October 15, 2007 at 1:05
Well, I’m proud to not be associated with you too!I hope you and Rudy are very happy together.
tigrismus said,
October 15, 2007 at 1:07
That was different, Wek.
cleter said,
October 15, 2007 at 1:07
I think her chili thread is still open.
atheist said,
October 15, 2007 at 1:18
re: “True conservatives”
Is there such a thing? I can not quite get my head around the concept. Maybe if I had seen or heard one in recent years, I would not be so skeptical.
Some of the people on http://www.antiwar.com seem like “True Conservative” types. Or that Lew Rockwell guy. Or John Dean, of “Conservatives without conscience” fame.
I still don’t agree with much of what they say, but there does seem to be actual people who are conservative, and at the same time, are not members of the “Cult of Conservatism”. Basically normal people, in other words.
El Cid said,
October 15, 2007 at 1:45
Thank God in heaven we are now led by a President who completely knew how to make it on his own without handouts of any kind, surrounded by a plethora of self-made advisers.
TR said,
October 15, 2007 at 1:54
Apparently, Raven is trying to ‘win’ the debate by deleting comments unfavorable to her position. Why do people do that?
Because they lack the intellect to argue back or the sense of shame to feel bad about censuring other people’s comments.
Well, that, and they’re fucking cowards.
TR said,
October 15, 2007 at 1:56
I am so content I am no longer a Democrat.
Well, that makes it unanimous.
We don’t really need hateful harpies over here, but that seems to be the stock in trade of the right these days. Why don’t you and the other thugs go kick a puppy or something?
bleat my little psycho born agin chick bleat said,
October 15, 2007 at 1:58
She never answered Sarah’s question. Something is fishy about that.
TR said,
October 15, 2007 at 2:00
I love Pink Floyd. Ever so much.
If Raven loves Pink Floyd, she must’ve misunderstood the politics behind “The Wall.”
atheist said,
October 15, 2007 at 2:07
If Raven loves Pink Floyd, she must’ve misunderstood the politics behind “The Wall.”
To be fair, that’s pretty easy to do. Unless you are somewhat clued-in politically, it just looks like a psychadelic fever dream.
RubDMC said,
October 15, 2007 at 2:09
Ugh.
This disgusting blob of protoplasm is not representative of the nursing profession.
She is an ugly example of the Nurse Ratchet caricature.
Love your nurse, because she/he acts on her/his compassion for you without precondition.
Kick this Raven piece of shit to the curb with the rest of the garbage.
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
October 15, 2007 at 2:11
To all you guys with PTSD and the like, you have my sympathy. You vets, there’s no way I could survive what you’ve been through. My neurochemistry is pre-fucked, so I’d most likely have killed myself already, or at least be a screaming drooling basket case.
But this Raven bitch really makes me a cranky cat. How dare she, how dare she, suggest for a moment that anyone is faking? Much less someone who’s come back from an all-hours guerilla/civil war. Stupid cow. And the idea that “Dad was okay, so everyone who claims to suffer is a big wuss” is complete nonsense: as my logic tutor used to say, one example does not a proof make.
Random, I’m sure there were Cro-Magnons who raided other Cro-Magnon settlements with iron or bronze swords who returned home changed by the experience.
Err, g? I don’t think the cro-magnons did metalwork. I think that happened a lot later, after the CMs had gone the way of the dinosaurs. Just sayin’.
According to the new Ken Burns documentary “The War,” 25% of all medical evacuations from combat were for psychiatric reasons.
Not surprising. Have any of you guys read On Killing by Dave Grossman? That’s Lt Col Dave Grossman, by the way. He says that around World War I (I think), officers had a problem, in that they could only get about 20-25% of the men to actually fire when sighting an ‘enemy’. They found that soldiers, on seeing another guy who looked pretty much like them, would stop and think that the guy might just be pretty much like them. So they wouldn’t shoot. This caused problems for officers and politicians.
So they started training soldiers, conditioning them, to dehumanize the enemy, so they’d have less trouble firing. Also to mindlessly obey orders, for the same reason. Plus, it helps if they don’t have to look at the people they kill: pilots of bombers have very little problems, while the grunts on the ground bear the brunt.
I seem to recall that World War I nearly ended the first Christmas, because the shelling stopped, and the blokes in the trenches got together and shared their Christmas treats. The officers were pretty pissed off about that, I think. Can’t have the men stopping the war, doncherknow.
“One time, at band camp? I put my clarinet in my ass. Don’t mess with me.”
But mikey, did you tootle?
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
October 15, 2007 at 2:14
Unless you are somewhat clued-in politically, it just looks like a psychadelic fever dream.
Hey, atheist, The Wall was an album long before it was a video. On vinyl, no less. And the lyrics are pretty damn convincing, and any Pink Floyd fan worth his, or indeed her, salt would have to obsessively listen to the lyrics.
May not understand them, true.
Ron said,
October 15, 2007 at 2:15
In the comments, she says:
“Propane you must know that there is considerable debate among the medical profession as to reality of PTSD as a medical condition.”
Let me assure Raven and everyone else that there is NO debate within the Army about it-anymore. I say this as a member of a new unit whose only mission is transitioning wounded soldiers back to duty or back to civilian life with the benefits they deserve. PTSD and TBI is taken with the utmost seriousness, now that soldier treatment is front page news. In fact most of our charges are PSTD and TBI sufferers.
What a stupid, uninformed, bloodless bitch.
atheist said,
October 15, 2007 at 2:18
Fair enough, Qetesh. I saw the movie first, and didn’t get the political side of it until years later.
Magic Dog said,
October 15, 2007 at 2:22
Raven has never met Troy Turner, nor is she trained in psychiatric nursing. She doesn’t believe in PTSD and she judges Mr. Turner’s behavior by the same yardstick you’d use to gauge that of a mentally healthy individual.
Her solution? Suck it up, you malingerer! “My own father saw a lot of gore; he lost many friends. Yet he managed to move on without letting it get to him; he chose to live his life as he wanted and not to succumb to his ghosts, as I call them.”
Her attitude toward Troy Turner reminds me of George S Patton, who visited an army hospital and slapped a solider suffering from shell-shock. When it was revealed, Patton was forced to make a public apology in front of his troops.
Raven, on the other hand, is a coward. She has turned off her comments page and slithered back under the rock from whence she came. It’s a bit like Bill O’Reilly, who publicly stated that a young man who was kidnapped, strangled and sexually abused “liked it.”
He’s never apologized for his slander, nor will Raven ever apologize for hers. My guess is that Raven is an evangelical Christian. In my experience, those people are particularly adept at lying. After all, they’ve accepted Jesus H. Christ as their personal savior, so they think they’ll go to heaven no matter what the hell they do.
The real tip-off is Raven’s self-regard. After delivering a cruel set of putdowns worthy of Nurse Ratched, she claims to be “compassionate.” Raven, if you’re compassionate, I’d hate to see the alternative.
atheist said,
October 15, 2007 at 2:29
I’m sure you are all correct about this stupid Raven moron. She sounds like a real piece of work, all right.
Still, you know, not all Evangelical Christians are bastards like her. Some are actually pretty normal. And so, when you dis her, you may not want to say that all evangelical Christians are like her. Because in my experience, not all of them are in fact like her. I have known evangelical Christians who did not believe that they would go to heaven no matter what bad thing they did.
meatbrain said,
October 15, 2007 at 2:58
Raven has a history of intellectual cowardice. She tried to start a debate with me nearly a year ago. I responded with answers to each of her questions. Raven never found the courage to continue the discussion.
Billy Joe said,
October 15, 2007 at 3:00
Kender recently proposed a tax boycott/full-scale tax evasion scheme on his blog in the event that Hillary becomes President.
I attempted to point out that that would require defunding the troops and depriving them of bullets in a time of war, but those guys literally can’t even think thru the most basic consequences of their proposed actions:
http://breakingdimbulbs.blogspot.com/2007/10/another-wingnut-proposes-defunding.html
noen said,
October 15, 2007 at 3:01
a different brad said,
I’m torn on this. [...] she’s trolling for attention, and will probably blogwhore this little event all over her corner of the assholosphere by crying victimization and crowing about getting libs to notice her. I don’t mean to fault Jillian in the tiniest little bit, but should some cries for attention be ignored?
My 2 cents is that one reason this blog has so few trolls, and those you do have don’t stay very long, is because you ignore them a bit at first and then heap ridicule on them. I think this works. Trying to engage trolls in a debate simply doesn’t work neither does trading insults. In all the history of the internet it has never worked.
I’d like to see a national laugh-in where we all took a little time off and busted a gut laughing at these morans.
–
BTW … Mikey.
I got nothin’ but respect for you. Thank you for your service.
mikey said,
October 15, 2007 at 3:21
There is peace and comfort here.
Honestly. My therapist says I’m really doing well lately.
I’ve been hanging out at Sadly for what, year and a half?
Sanity. Rationality. An understanding that peace is a worthy goal, and a willingness to expend effort, money and intellectual wherewithal to get there.
I’m more than proud to hang with the Sadlys…
mikey
Smiling Mortician said,
October 15, 2007 at 3:40
Only a year and a half, mikey? I think I’ve been here for nearly that long, and I remember clearly seeing you as an awesome force here when I first showed up. And by ‘awesome force,’ I mean . . . hell, you know what I mean. Peace.
noen said,
October 15, 2007 at 3:44
“Honestly. My therapist says I’m really doing well lately.”
Yeah, so does mine, but then he’s paid to say that.
Just remember that wise saying “your shit stinks too”. Always nice to have someone stop by and remind us of that.
Caught Abusing A Crippled Child, Explains “He DESERVED IT!” « his vorpal sword said,
October 15, 2007 at 3:46
[...] parcel of the “Kill the messenger” approach that demonizes children over health care, soldiers over VA conditions, and Al Gore over global warming. The “good Germans” as Frank Rich bravely writes in [...]
m-curious said,
October 15, 2007 at 3:49
One of the posts/emails Raven received noted: “Based on your posts which I have read, you are a loathsome cunt.
If you are a registered nurse, I urge you to leave the field immediately.
There’s no room in my profession, which is based on compassion and caring, for a loathsome, judgemental, and despicable cunt like you.”
I read all of her posts and didn’t see where she claimed to be an RN. Too, to call her a loathsome, judgmental, and dispicable… is rather judgmental in itself don’t you think? I’m curious as to why the left (and the right for that matter) can’t take apart an argument without resorting to such language and ad hominim? Saying the other side does it more is not an acceptable defense.
Is there no civility in disagreement any more? Sad to see this happening and sad to see the above responses on this thread.
Righteous Bubba said,
October 15, 2007 at 4:00
Too, to call her a loathsome, judgmental, and dispicable… is rather judgmental in itself don’t you think?
The difference here is that Raven judges on the basis of nothing - what she thinks might be the case - and her detractors judge on the basis of something - her shit post picking on a guy she doesn’t know.
Quoth the Raven:
Fuck you Raven you crybaby.
But thanks for asking, m-curious. Get ever it.
atheist said,
October 15, 2007 at 4:09
Honestly. My therapist says I’m really doing well lately.
I’m glad to hear that this place is theraputic to you, Mikey. It is to me too. I guess I have been hanging out hear for about a year or a year and a half too, and you were already lighting it up when I arrived.
I am glad when you cause wingnuts to stammer and seem confused- by asking them basic strategic questions about US aims in the “War on Terror”. They don’t seem to like questions that require a considered analytical response.
It’s pretty telling when they can’t even say what this war, that they are taking to be “The Existential scorched-earth war to end all wars forever”, is supposed to accomplish