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One of my favorite musicians caught tons of flak for including an Ann Coulter book in his list of recommended reads when someone on his site asked for such a list. He responded that he had included it because people should know where the other sides are coming from, and I agree. I’ve always kept a watchful eye, even putting friends through the news segments on “The 700 Club”. I hate that show! But I do want to know what they’re up to.

Jummy. Between 1959 and 1975, between 1.3 and 5.1 million Vietnamese people died as a result of the Vietnam War. It was a period that would accurately be described as one of “widespread misery, humiliation and slaughter of thousands upon thousands of the people” who lived in Vietnam at the time.

If you can show that an equal amount of Vietnamese people died or experienced “widespread misery, humiliation and slaughter” in the 16 years following the U.S. withdrawal, I would be greatly surprised.

And you would still be short the 63,000 or so Americans and citizens of allied countries who died during that time.

That said, perhaps it was slightly to somewhat worse, on average, to be Vietnamese in the post-war years. Perhaps it was slightly to somewhat better. There probably isn’t a whole lot of difference that we can point to with any kind of certainty, if we pretend to affect any kind of actual reasoning about things like actually available data points, and the all-too-often slippery nature of their origin and applicability.

The point being, you can’t predict the future of what will happen in Iraq if we leave, or if we stay. Because you aren’t Nostradamus.

So take your goat-entrail reading shit to the back of the line, jackass.

I’d be just delighted to see a group with courage taking the baricades with the message “This is NOT us”.

The only threat to american democracy I can see right now is the republican administration. And at some point, some of us are going to have to bleed on the streets to re-consecrate the ideals we used to hold dear….

mikey

This was bugging me today when I was listening to news about Peter Pace’s retirement. He was yammering on about how “the enemy attacked us”. An embarrassment. Oh, and justification of a war-crime too, but there you go.

First, you have no idea what I am “Pro” or “Anti”. You can speak to how you choose to define labels, pointless thought it might be, but you cannot speak for me any more than I can speak for you. So shove that shit right back in your ditty bag, big fellah.

Second. You seem to think wars are glorious and just if americans are doing the killing, and “genocide” if other nations follow our lead and fight amongst themselves. At Nuremburg in 1946, aggressive invasion of a country not engaged in hostilities was defined as a crime against humanity. In fact, it was described as THE WORST crime. So are you really so proud of america’s actions in iraq? But the point is, you seem to think it is up to america do determine who is to live and who is to die, to prevent what you describe as genocide as if that’s the only horror in play.

Which leads to my question. Have you ever been in a war zone? Because you seem kind of casual about the depths of horror, the disease, the atrocities, the death and sickness of innocents. Now I’ll never say that someone who hasn’t been in combat has no right to an opinion, but sorry, spunky, if you wanna talk about vietnam, I was there. And if you think it was a place of peace and contentment until we left the brown people to decend into genocide, you’re a fucking idiot. We were killing them by the millions while we were there. We didn’t care. Got a ville on your line of march? No thing. Call arty. You walk through the ville, those dead women and children and old people and animals that were all the wealth that ville has had for thousands of years won’t shoot your ass. Yay for us, right, sparky?

You’re the worst kind of american criminal…

mikey

This made me giggle. How sweet to be concerned for our feelings.

As the kids say, wtf?

Let’s try to figure this out together, shall we?

Ok, Groupthink doesn’t have ears, so you can’t parse it directly.

Would members of the Group indulging in the “think” have red ears?

Well, they might, sure. But what would cause that? Is a cold wind a-blowing?

Maybe it’s just missing a comma, as in “Red, Eared Groupthink”.

You know, like one-eyed, one-horned, flying purple people eater.

But why would it be noteworthy that the red group had ears?

Nope, this isn’t going to make sense to me in any way…

mikey

Jummy, what part of “the Park service is barred by Congress from making estimates” (AT ALL, and has been since The Million Man March) makes your “60,000 was the park district’s estimate” anything but a bald-faced lie by a clueless moron without even a nodding acquaintance with logic, reality, or hygiene?

for this, we can go to that unimpeachable source, wikipedia where words mean what glenn greenwald wants them to mean when he wants them to mean it: “activists distinguish between anti-war movements and peace movements. Anti-war activists believe that most wars have an aggressor and that their movement works to ensure that the aggressor ends their war…many modern activists are against only one side’s campaigns…”

so conversely, being “pro-war” doesn’t mean i want all war all the time. it means i want to wage and emerge victorious from this campaign against radical arab/islamic nationalism. at the very least, i’m not favorable of the idea of letting iraq slide into chaos.

by the above definition, progressives opposing the war aren’t anti-war or pro-peace. they are pro-genocide. flatly put, they know what will happen and they eagerly seek to effect that outcome regardless.

chill out! i’m not saying that antiwar progressives are traitors. though certainly there are some.

some decades ago it was an identical situation. the “peace” wing were told that the certain outcome of their efforts would be the widespread misery, humiliation and slaughter of thousands upon thousands of the people whom they pretended to care about, and the proceeded anyway, revealing their humanitarian pose to be a putrid lie they used to wipe the blood from their hands as they, professing “peace and freedom” for themselves, consigned vietnamese people to a dystopic police state.

then, the peace protesters bombed recruiting centers and conducted gang warfare in the streets in an effort to “bring the war home” on behalf of our country’s soviet-backed enemy, shouting “ho, ho, ho chi mihn…”

here we are and from the moment following 9-11 progressive antiwar types ressurected every meme from that era with a new refrain added: “another vietnam”. afghanistan was said to be “another vietnam”. then we moved into iraq, and that was really going to be “another vietnam”. the phrase “another vietnam” was cried out for every mizzle flash in iraq, so it can’t be said that they weren’t thinking about the sort of “peace” they won last time around.

now the violence against recreuiting centers is less severe, the antiwar types march with their heads wrapped in sunni scarves carrying palestinian flags and proclaiming the “insurgency” freedom fighters.

for these people, being antiwar is not a question of being against all wars. it’s about being on the other side from your country. being on the side of the “counter-hegemon” or whatever.

but i think more often than not, those who identify as “progressives” are lazy nihilists. the most colorful spark in them is one degree or another of oedipal/electra disorder in which they mistake the society at large which they share with other adult people for their father, and they wish to remain forever the adolecent, taking the keys to the car anyway and slamming the door as they leave.

it is these people who make up the bulk of the people who are working to ensure defeat. and they want millions of people to die in an exponentially widened civil war because it will embarrass daddy.

so, sorry to be long-winded. to recap, me: not “pro-war”; you: not “pro-peace”.

I go to work all day and then I miss all the fun!

Has this tool demonstrated any knowledge of what a Falangist is yet?

Ooooh, jummy learn new word!

Figure out how to use Teh Google, did you?

Perhaps you can demonstrate your new skillz (and your new word!) to your 58,500 imaginary friends!

I’ve actually gotten a lot done. It’s been a good day.

Me too, actually. Ought to check the chicken in the oven soon, but it’s been quite a productive few hours.

right. this has been a shameful expenditure of my time. i haven’t gotten a thing done all afternoon.

it was a pleasure watching you spazz out at the slightest deviation from your red-eared groupthink.

Next up: the “hehe you must have a lot of FREE TIME to answer my arguments on the Internet” argument.

it was a pleasure watching you spazz out at the slightest deviation from your red-eared groupthink.

cheers!