10
The. Worst. Analogy. EVAR.
Why Are Atheist Books Best Sellers?
It is not due to their eloquence, originality or persuasiveness that these books have become best sellers. I believe other factors are at work. And they are:
First and most significant is the amount of evil coming from within Islam. Whether Islamists (or jihadists, Islamo-Fascists or whatever else Muslims who slaughter innocents in the name of Islam are called) represent a small sliver of Muslims or considerably more than that, they have brought religious faith into terrible disrepute.
How could they not? The one recognized genocide in the world today is being carried out by religious Muslims in Sudan; liberty is exceedingly rare in any of the dozens of nations with Muslim majorities; treatment of women is frequently awful; and tolerance of people with different religious beliefs is largely nonexistent when Muslims dominate a society.
If the same were true of vegetarians — if mass murder and violent intolerance were carried out by vegetarians — there would be a backlash against vegetarianism even among people who previously had no strong feelings about the doctrine.
Um, Dennis? Also, let’s not get into which religionists have the worst records on “mass murder and violent intolerance”.
t4toby said,
July 10, 2007 at 21:21
Hey! I just happen to be a mass murdering vegetarian!
I kill me some carrots, and show violent intolerance to ripe herb trees.
Cut ‘em down and rip ‘em up!!!1!
MCH said,
July 10, 2007 at 21:28
Does he ever actually talk about atheists? Or does this clown actually think atheists are Muslims? What?
And the vegetarian murderer thing is probably just a crypto-promo for Pantload’s book, done in Wingnut Free Association Code. “Vegetarian” and “murder” conjure up “Hitler was a veg!”/”PETA sucks!”/”ELF and ALF kill!!”, which of course completes the syllogism “most veggies are lefties”—>”veggies are murderers/terrorists”—>”liberal fascism”.
Or maybe it’s just more pointless poo-flinging. Dennis Prager as the Shit-monkeys from Redneck Rampage? I can see it.
Gentlewoman said,
July 10, 2007 at 21:29
The one recognized genocide in the world today
Because if Prager doesn’t ‘recognize’ it, it’s not happening, OK?
Every time I think this man cannot say anything more pathetically stupid, he writes something else and you guys tell me about it.
Have mercy.
Jeff Fecke said,
July 10, 2007 at 21:34
Also, according to DoughBob LoadPants, aren’t vegetarians fascists anyhow?
Captain Obvious said,
July 10, 2007 at 21:34
But wait! He’s almost got it, by Jove:
if mass murder and violent intolerance were carried out by
vegetariansAmericans — there would be a backlash againstvegetarianismAmericans even among people who previously had no strong feelings about the doctrine.He’s SO CLOSE to fathoming both the runaway Iraqi Terrorist Generator AND America’s Amazing Plummeting Planetary Popularity!!! And he’s not splody-headed YET!!1!
Cmon Dennis! You can do it!
J. A. Baker said,
July 10, 2007 at 21:37
And let’s not forget which religionists are trying to make democracy and liberty a joke in this country.
John T said,
July 10, 2007 at 21:38
Well he does sort of have a point. Violent Muslim extremists have sensitized many Americans to the threat of home-grown religious extremism. Speaking for myself, recognizing the seriousness of this threat has made me upgrade from being a noncommital agnostic to a proudly card-carrying atheist. Still haven’t bought any of those books though.
Humbert Dinglepencker said,
July 10, 2007 at 21:45
My lord. How does something this indescribably stupid continue to breathe?
Humbert Dinglepencker said,
July 10, 2007 at 21:46
Prager, that is. Dumb. Brain stem. Y’all come back, ‘hear?
Red Shark said,
July 10, 2007 at 21:49
Radical Muslim violence is driving Americans away from the real, one, true, intolerant religion, fundamental Christianity or Orthodox Judaism, or whatever. Pick one and become indoctrinated because atheists admittedly are unable to fight Islamist violence.
J. A. Baker said,
July 10, 2007 at 21:56
Shorter Dennis Prager: Islam is to blame for all the ills in the world.
Shorter Dennis Prager II: The Pragering: The lack of forced conversion of all Americans to fundamentalist, conservative Christianity is to blame for all the ills in the world.
Legalize said,
July 10, 2007 at 22:05
I’m convinced that the wingnut strategy for 2007 and 2008 is just to cut words out of other publications, paste them together randomly, and point to the psycho-babble as evidence of whatever paranoid nit-wittery they are convinced of. There has to be a cure for this insanity; there just has to be.
fardels bear said,
July 10, 2007 at 22:27
Dennis just doesn’t want to admit to himself that atheist books sell well because of the inane/insane writings of…. Dennis Prager.
It isn’t the Muslims, Dennis. It is you. It’s you, Dennis. If you had just kept your big mouth shut, Richard Dawkins would be safely in his laboratory in England instead of in our bases killing our doodz.
J. A. Baker said,
July 10, 2007 at 22:37
Shorter Dennis Prager III: Muslims and Libruls and Gays, oh my!
MCH said,
July 10, 2007 at 22:43
I’m convinced that the wingnut strategy for 2007 and 2008 is just to cut words out of other publications, paste them together randomly, and point to the psycho-babble as evidence of whatever paranoid nit-wittery they are convinced of.
Most people look at the cut-up technique as a Surrealist art; conservatives think it’s philosophy.
We did some of this stuff in a questionable, but fun, college Design II course with avant garde photocopier artist and silversmith Curtis X. LaFollette. I also braided together two images of Karl Marx and Leon Trotsky, and built a foamcore cube with spiral designs on the side. And yet all of these things bear a much closer relationship to Practical Reality than Dennis Prager.
Jay B. said,
July 10, 2007 at 22:47
John T pretty much sums up my ‘journey’ from respectful agnostic to militant atheist. All of these fuckers want to rule my life in some way or another. They do nothing but breed rules, institute them by fear, and cater to the most pious and ignorant.
Furthermore, I think Islam is no more or less as boneheaded response to the world as any other magical thought. I appreciate the whole “treat others in the same way you would like to be treated yourself”, and so I would happily let those who choose that path continue down it, so long as they left me the fuck alone. But they can’t. Not one of these zombies takes any succor out of their life’s experience unless everyone feels the way they do. By force, if necessary.
And so Pranger is right, to an extent. It IS because of Crazy Islam that I’ve bought a few books. And Suffocating Orthodoxy. And Ridgid Judiasm. And Institutional Hypocrisy. And the Motherfucking Pope.
Davis said,
July 10, 2007 at 22:54
Here’s my keen insight: Dennis Prager is a stupid, stupid man.
BigHank53 said,
July 10, 2007 at 23:30
Boy, you meet the stupidest people at the intersection of Bigot Avenue and Mouthbreather Lane, don’t you?
Notorious P.A.T. said,
July 10, 2007 at 23:35
Gosh, I just don’t get it. One minute the Republicans are telling me that liberal atheists like me are allied with al-Qaeda to destroy America. Then they tell me the only reason I believe as I do is my opposition to al-Qaeda, nothing more. The wingnuts are making my head spin.
J. A. Baker said,
July 10, 2007 at 23:47
Who, in a nod to his time in the Hitler Youth, has just declared the Catholic Church the One True Church.
Steve said,
July 10, 2007 at 23:49
Isn’t Darfur basically Muslims killing Muslims?
I’m rather shocked that Prager has a problem with it. Although, maybe he doesn’t.
Hysterical Woman said,
July 11, 2007 at 0:06
Pacifist beliefs don’t belong in religion?
DAS said,
July 11, 2007 at 0:15
Shorter Dennis Prager IIa: The Pragering: If I were alive in 1492, I would have welcomed the Inquisition to Spain because Islam was a threat to the Spanish way of life. I’m sure Ferdinand, Isabela and Torquemada would have understood that I am a staunch supporter of Judeo-Christian morality and hence would not have kicked me out nor subjected me (if I would have converted to save my heinie … which I would have considering what a chickenhawk I am) to the Inquisition.
Douche Baggins said,
July 11, 2007 at 0:17
Pacifist beliefs don’t belong in religion?
Christ, what a pussy!
Christ: what a pussy!
noen said,
July 11, 2007 at 0:27
My lord. How does something this indescribably stupid continue to breathe?
As usual, through his mouth.
DAS said,
July 11, 2007 at 0:35
Yeah Dennis … it’s only Muslims who have discredited religion. Need I mention (as you seem like you are about to mention, but then pull your punches) that perhaps part of the reason religion is especially discredited in Europe is because of the attrocities committed on that continent in the name of Christianity? Remember they were killing our people long before Hitler came around … and why? ‘Cause they said we killed Jesus or something like that.
Perhaps the reason why religion is so much stronger in America is because religion, never having state power here, has been prevented from making an ass out of itself. And yet you want religion to have more of a political role here? Even though that discredits religion? So who’s anti-religious now? Us moonbats or you?
Indeed it is virtually impossible to distinguish between a liberal Christian or Jew and a liberal secularist. Neither holds any text to be divine, both get their values from their hearts and minds, and they come to identical conclusions about virtually all moral issues. The liberal Christian, the liberal Jew and the liberal secularist all regard the human fetus as morally worthless; regard the man-woman definition of marriage as a form of bigotry; and come close to holding pacifist beliefs, to cite but a few examples.
Anyway, speak for yourself, Bucko! This liberal Jew does hold the Bible to be divine (if not exactly l’Moshe b’Sinai) … do I get my values from my heart and my mind? Well maybe — but where did the Tannaim get their values? Seems to me they got them from their minds and even excommunicated R. Eliezer b. Hurcanus for appealing to God in the matter of whether a certain oven could be Tamei rather than using his mind. And as to getting your values from your heart? Nu? Didn’t God say to “set these words which I command you on this day to be in thy heart” — so shouldn’t we get our values from our heart since that is where we have set the words which God has commanded us? I guess Prager pulls his values out of some other body part? Certainly he does seem awful ignorant not only of liberal Judaism, but Judaism in general … I certainly wouldn’t trust him if he told me that my oven were incapable of being rendered Tamei.
Anyway, I don’t view the fetus as morally worthless. I just view a woman, e.g. a pregnant woman, as of infinite moral worth and hence even her health concerns trump the life of the fetus, which has finite moral worth. This is not the “liberal Jewish” point of view, it is the Jewish point of view. Again, would you trust Prager to tell you whether your oven were Tamei? I shouldn’t make this comparison though — R. Eliezar was a great Tanna, if a bit of a fundie nut who nonetheless didn’t care enough about the laws of ritual cleanliness … and Prager is not R. Eliezar.
Of course, as a liberal Jew, I question the ability of the state to make decisions of moral worth anyway, which is why, even in cases where Judaism would forbid abortion I think it should still be legal. After all, if both God and R. Eliezar can be wrong about the ‘aknai oven, how can we trust the likes of Prager and politicians to be right about telling us when abortion is immoral vs. when it is actually the most moral thing to do?
Mona said,
July 11, 2007 at 1:03
As a libertarian non-theist, I’m all about live and let live. I spend zero time trying to “convert” believers, and don’t go all Robert Ingersoll in my blogging or in real life.
But I’m starting to get a bit more militant because of shit like this Prager column. Or O’Reilly’s insane obsession with “secular progressives,” “wars on Xmas,” the poor persecuted Xians who, until the midterms, controlled all branches of govt and the largest cable news network.
I’m nearly at the point of doing a Madalyn Murray O’Hare, whereas for most of my life I was happy to live in peace with the theists and thought her, um, shrill. But that road simply does not run both ways.
DAS said,
July 11, 2007 at 2:15
Or O’Reilly’s insane obsession with “secular progressives,” “wars on Xmas,” - Mona
As Yogi Berra might say if he cussed more and were a theist (I don’t know his religious beliefs … I’ve always figured he must be playing for the H-team like I am, but if he were, this would be a known fact … so I guess he ain’t one of my tribe): it ain’t all of us theists that are being assholes … just the assholes. While I’m sure you would have plenty to about which disagree with this theist on many other issues (given your “libertarian” self-identification) — and probably our disagreements will relate to our underlying disagreement as to God’s existence — remember that you have many theists on your side when it comes to the crap written by the likes of Prager, O’Reilly, et al. Remember they’re calling my kind of theists “evil secularists” too. So no need to get all Dawkins or even O’Hare on us ;)
Anyway, remember what O’Reilly’s code words mean — they are code for old-fashioned anti-Semitism. Why someone like Prager makes common cause with these types, I don’t know. Could he really be that stupid?
White, God-fearing, Suburban said,
July 11, 2007 at 2:58
Mr. Prager’s analogy is slightly incomplete.
Here is the correct analogy: Suppose carrot-eaters are filthy mass murderers, and we, as proud worshipers in the broccoli branch of the broader Cabbage-istic denominitaion (all proud descendents of our Divine Teacher, Brassica oleracea, or Wild Cabbage) were engaged in a righteous war to kill as many of those filthy Carrot-ers and showing the rest of them who the Boss is.
Unfortunately these filthy, mass murdering Carroters are reflecting negatively on all of us vegetarians, so some people are starting to think, “hey, what exactly is wrong with having steak for dinner?” This has helped some meat-pedplers to sell some meat-promoting literature, which would never had happened if it was not for those filthy carrot eaters.
The sooner we kill, incarcarate and intimidate as many of those carrot eaters as possible, people will come back to their senses that broccoli is the only reasonable nutrient and all these steak and lamb-chop peddlers will go crawl back into their holes.
If they don’t, however, we will use whatever means are necessary (all options are on the table) to shut these meat-peddlers up, as ultimately this is all about Good (brocolli) vs. Evil (everything else, especially filthy Carroters, but meat-eaters, too, and for that manner tomato-eaters, who remind me a little bit of carrot eaters, since tomatoes are red and carrots are orange, while everyone knows that the only righteous food is colored green… note to self: come to think about it, tomato-eaters maybe even worse than the filthy carrot-eaters, why don’t we, as a temporary measure, arm and train the carrot eaters and pay them money to kill some tomato-eaters, that sounds like a smart strategy, doesn’t it?)
White, God-fearing, Suburban said,
July 11, 2007 at 3:09
… and by no means don’t even for a minute think that this has anything to do with the carrot juice or the tomato juice. While these may be important, energy-rich fluids, ultimately this is all about punishing the Evil-doers, and has nothing to do with the aforementioned juices… I thought I’d clear that up…
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
July 11, 2007 at 3:30
White, God-fearing, Suburban: I love you, will you marry me?
g said,
July 11, 2007 at 4:13
So Kurt Vonnegut’s success as an author is the fault of Al Quaeda?
Who knew? I bet he didn’t.
Mona said,
July 11, 2007 at 4:13
DAS writes: Remember they’re calling my kind of theists “evil secularists” too. So no need to get all Dawkins or even O’Hare on us ;)
I know, and truly, Dawkins, much as I admire him, has made me flinch in his over-broad and ill-considered attacks on all believers. Really, I am not and never have been anti-religious, except for a very brief time in my early 20s when I was acting out against the religiously rigid crap I was raised with.
But it gets old being treated as if one eats newborn babies for breakfast and has no mooring in any morality because that is the prevailing right-wing, highly successful narrative about non-theists.
It is good, however, to hear from folks like you, to keep me from veering off on the “fundamentalist atheist” path. So I thank you.
Mona said,
July 11, 2007 at 4:15
Ok, italics were supposed to cease after first sentence quoting DAS.
atheist said,
July 11, 2007 at 11:50
And I owe it alll to the Muslims….
atheist said,
July 11, 2007 at 12:00
As a libertarian non-theist, I’m all about live and let live. I spend zero time trying to “convert” believers, and don’t go all Robert Ingersoll in my blogging or in real life.
But I’m starting to get a bit more militant because of shit like this Prager column. Or O’Reilly’s insane obsession with “secular progressives,” “wars on Xmas,” the poor persecuted Xians who, until the midterms, controlled all branches of govt and the largest cable news network.
Dear Mona:
Interesting, you are basically describing my exact take on religion as well. I’m not crazy about millitantly anti-religious people or statements, even though I really am an Atheist. In addition, I know a lot of people, in my family and elsewhere, who are both religious and quit reasonable.
However, the sheer amount of bullshit coming from the Religious Right, the Bill O’Reillys and their kind, the out-of-nowhere attacks on “secular humanism”, the absurd rhetoric of the ‘War on Christmas’, it all makes me want to fight back. And so I find myself fighting back sometimes.
meaningful wanker, painfully versed said,
July 11, 2007 at 14:31
And iff kittens started murdering people, I mean, could you imagine?
meaningful wanker, painfully versed said,
July 11, 2007 at 14:31
And if kittens started murdering people, I mean, could you imagine?
Nimrod Gently said,
July 11, 2007 at 16:14
Hilter wasn’t really a vegetarian, he just had this Aryan-ass diet thing which was something to do with the Superman or whatever the fuck that crazy motherfucker had in his head at any one time.
Duros62 said,
July 11, 2007 at 22:14
Some people prefer cupcakes exclusively, while I for one, care less for them…
mikey said,
July 12, 2007 at 3:17
C’mon, look, think about it. How fucked your life has been. Have you prayed? Did “god” help you? I’m going out on a limb here, and I’m gonna guess NO, the imaginary fucker was useless in your time of need.
Now sure, you can make excuses for his omnipotent impotence. But it’s not god’s fault. Really. SUPER BEINGS DON’T EXIST, AND IF THEY DID THEY WOULDN’T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOUR LIFE.
Sorry for the shouting. But did you get it that time? It’s a silly just-so story. There is no “god”, and grownups shouldn’t live their lives as if there was. This is embarrassingly silly, and we need to get past our medevial fears.
I, for one, am virulently anti-religion. This is silly. There is no evidence for god, and every time we make a discovery it pushes god farther back into the margins. We call it the “god of the gaps”. You can google it.
You need to make a grown up, big person decision. Do I want to believe in fairy tales with absolutely NO empirical evidence and no universal requirement for this thing’s existence, or are you willing to put childish mythology aside and face the world as it actually is?
mikey
slightly_peeved said,
July 13, 2007 at 2:57
Do I want to believe in fairy tales with absolutely NO empirical evidence
Everyone does.
Justice, Mercy, Hope, Love - these are fairy tales. Their only physical manifestation is a set of signals and chemical states in the brains of people - same as religion.
Science can tell us what actions have what consequences, but it doesn’t tell us what consequences we should want - what the goals of our life should be. For that, you will need a system not based in empirical evidence. Non-religious systems are perfectly valid, but even these systems are not empirically verifiable.
None of this alters the fact that O’Reilly’s an asshole.