Jun
12

Wingnut, Unpaste Thyself




Posted at 9:48 by D. Aristophanes

Jeff Goldstein gets all concern trollish regarding the Jesus’ General-Brittney Gilbert-Ghost of Adolph Rupp-Scott Kaufman dustup (go here for as good a take as any on that regrettable situation):

I find it at once touching and sad that Kaufman is maintaining that this attempt at getting him canned merely for challenging the officially-sanctioned narrative is something of an unrepresentative gambit — that it is an individual vs individual scenario that doesn’t speak to larger problems within the progressive movement — even as he’s witnessed firsthand how pernicious is a world view that privileges the incorrect decoding of a particular interpretive community over the (since established) intent of the utterer, and then gives that interpretive community permission to ascribe to the original utterer the product of the community’s own (often cynically self-interested) interpretive intent.

Ooh … it’s high-falutin’ Pasty. Gettin’ down with the deconstructionalamism. “A world view that privileges the incorrect decoding of a particular interpretive community …” Man, that kind of patter plus a corduroy coat with elbow patches would get you laid at any one of the Seven Sister schools circa 1973.

But here’s the real point, jackass. You and your cohorts are for torture. We occasionally act like assholes. To be precise, an indvidual — Ghost of Adolph Rupp — is acting like an asshole. Without “official sanction” from the progressive movement, whatever that’s supposed to mean.

A Star Chamber of Katrina vanden Heuvel, Kos, Michael Moore, Tinky Winky and Rosie O’Donnell did not compose the “narrative” and then order the attack on Scott Kaufman. An individual did that, and it’s not part of a “larger problem” … it’s one guy being a dick.

The “larger problems” in our “movement” are that we sometimes get all het up about stupid shit. The larger problems in yours are that you are a bunch of psychopathic, emotional cyphers whose black hearts lust for ever increasing gouts of blood to fill the petulant, quivering emptiness that resides in your persons where a soul should be.

But as Clarke’s essay spells out (however tentatively), the problem is far more widespread than Kaufman would like to admit — and indeed, for my part, I’ve come it see it as systemic, following naturally from an interpretive paradigm that of necessity culminates in competing narratives vying for established “truthâ€? based entirely on the power and tenacity of an advocacy group’s insistence.

What does this even mean? Skreak English, retard.

I could be wrong, of course. But I long for the days when someone would argue how this is so, rather than labeling my thinking “hate speech� and hoping that the mere accusation does enough to scare me off.

Scare you off? You want to pre-emptively attack Iran. You’re fucking nuts. We want to marginalize you to the point that the dustbin of history wrinkles its mixed-metaphorical nose at the thought of being asked to house the remaining artifactual motes of your brief but extinction-level usurpation of basic morality.

86 Comments »

  1. R.L.Page said,

    June 12, 2007 at 10:02

    …People do not know what they ought to say, but only that they must say something.

    SØREN KIERKEGAARD

  2. Wittgenstein - Boozy swine said,

    June 12, 2007 at 10:16

    Whereof one cannot write comprehensibly, thereof STFU.

  3. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 10:21

    Randall Byrd said,
    June 12, 2007 at 9:46

    Incontinentia Buttocks and different brad, in case you missed my post down below about tribalism and burying and your heads in the sand and how the ‘netroots’ seemingly deserve to be laughed at-

    Read it before it gets deleted-
    http://www.haloscan.com/comments/patriotboy/3947160929673603317/
    Watch a sensible person make sensible arguments. Watch the ‘Yes suh general suh’ syncophants make fools of themselves. Watch the beauty of SEKs original troll (step into a forum and argue an unpopular argument, never losing your cool, always… well… kinda winning). Watch as JG’s syncophants slowly flip out, eventually going real life.

    In the old days, the usenet days, that group, the JG group would be the laughing stock.
    Kids today just don’t get it.

    You people, you ‘progressive blog people’ really need to step up and bitch slap your own if you ever want to be taken seriously.
    HTH HAND

  4. D. Aristophanes said,

    June 12, 2007 at 10:27

    Refresh key, Randall.

    Whoops, it’s just me.

  5. D. Aristophanes said,

    June 12, 2007 at 10:28

    Refresh again, pal.

    Nope … better luck next time.

  6. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 10:28

    There was a point where i actually believed that political blogs could help.
    But just now i noticed it’s tribal, and won’t.
    http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2005/08/neotribalism.html
    Discuss or not.
    Who cares really, its not as if it matters.
    Brad, suh, maybe a Blue Oyster cult video suh?

  7. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 10:39

    Refresh key, Randall.

    Whoops, it’s just me.

    Probably the paste, eh? Unpaste, its good for the soul.

    As our beloved Lord said in Chronicales 22 “But Jehoshabeath, the daughter of the king, took Joash the son of Ahaziah, and stole him from among the king’s sons that were slain, and put him and his nurse in a bedchamber. So Jehoshabeath, the daughter of king Jehoram, the wife of Jehoiada the priest, (for she was the sister of Ahaziah,) hid him from Athaliah, so that she slew him not.”

  8. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 10:47

    Hey doosh, instead of saying “refresh” why not just say, “read the fucking article i just posted dumbass”?
    Am I supposed to actually read that crap before commenting?
    This is why you nutroot types will never be taken seriously.
    In fact, I’m contacting your ISP right now.

  9. Some Guy said,

    June 12, 2007 at 10:50

    “You people, you ‘progressive blog people’ really need to step up and bitch slap your own if you ever want to be taken seriously.”

    This is about the Steve Gillard this at JG? The one where he proceeded to post about four times telling them to fucking knock off the “telling on your employers” thing, and leave the personal information the fuck out of this, eventually closing down the commenting section for a while and threatening to ban anyone who tried to bring it up again?

    Is that not “stepping up” and “bitch slapping” enough? I’m confused.

  10. a different brad said,

    June 12, 2007 at 10:58

    From personal experience, the proper response to this little clusterfuck is “I like hash!”

  11. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 11:08

    Having now read your screed, we agree, JG’s weird flipout brought Smantix ‘parody’ to a wider audience. Nice work. Way to make this side of the blogosphere to look like simpleminded twats.
    Now how do you feel about JG and his tribe attacking other bloggers? Acceptable or no?
    You gonna stand up and make a statement or bury your head and hope it goes away?

    The guy fucked up, he jumped the shark, he should be shunned.

  12. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 11:14

    Some Guy said,
    June 12, 2007 at 10:50

    “You people, you ‘progressive blog people’ really need to step up and bitch slap your own if you ever want to be taken seriously.�

    This is about the Steve Gillard this at JG? The one where he proceeded to post about four times telling them to fucking knock off the “telling on your employers� thing, and leave the personal information the fuck out of this, eventually closing down the commenting section for a while and threatening to ban anyone who tried to bring it up again?

    Hey i can’t help it if you can’t keep up, dumbass.
    Read the fucking links-
    http://acephalous.typepad.com/acephalous/2007/06/generals_gone_r.html

    From personal experience, the proper response to this little clusterfuck is “I like hash!�

    Shorter different brad- ” Mgfff” (head in sand)

  13. R.L.Page said,

    June 12, 2007 at 11:24

    [The following bit of dialogue (from the grammatically-challenged) illustrates what you get when you mistake friends for enemies.]

    When I was an youngster, during the age of Firesign Theatre, National Lampoon and Monte Python, etc., it was the left who reveled in irreverent humor and considered absolutely nothing off-limits. When the hell did that all change?

    Posted by B Moe | permalink
    on 06/11 at 10:44 PM

    When we became the real liberals, B Moe.

    Hell, I’ve now met, through this site, social conservatives with a better sense of humor than many on the left. Who have a sense of humor—just not when something’s aimed at them.

    Posted by Jeff Goldstein | permalink
    on 06/11 at 10:58 PM

    http://proteinwisdom.com/index.php?/weblog/entry/23278/#comments

  14. Some Guy said,

    June 12, 2007 at 11:44

    Well, I read your link. Am I still a dumbass?

    Whatever. I’m not feeding a concern troll.

  15. Barney said,

    June 12, 2007 at 11:58

    Goldstein needs to get some perspective. While he thinks progressives are an “interpretive community” with an “officially-sanctioned narrative”, these are, in reality, people with jobs like “local reporter” and “graduate student” writing some blogs with sizeable, but not huge, readerships; while, on the right wing, people with jobs like “Independent senator for Connecticut” and “scary right wing columnist with links to the White House and Italian spies” are on national TV making up excuses to bomb Iran. And the right wing blogs just wallow in this imaginary world of terror camps they are given.

    It was a ‘senior adviser to Bush’ (Karl Rove?) who made the remark, proudly, about the reality-based community. There are your “competing narratives vying for established “truthâ€? based entirely on the power and tenacity of an advocacy group’s insistence”. If Lieberman shouts long enough for an attack on Iran based on phony pretences, it might just happen – it worked for Iraq, after all.

    And no-one is more “cynically self-interested” than Rove. Well, maybe Ledeen is.

  16. Jillian said,

    June 12, 2007 at 12:06

    I swear to Christ I’m not getting involved in any of this shit.

    But I will hate myself forever if I resist saying two things:

    1.) Identity politics suck ass.

    2.) Feminism has become a sea of sadness since it allowed itself to be shifted from a goals-oriented movement to a politic of identity.

    The whole thing is sad. But I think at this point, the less attention paid to it, the better.

  17. ahem said,

    June 12, 2007 at 13:03

    Why is it that Godlstein writes like a parody of the overwrought undigested-poststructuralist superannuated grad student? Ah, I know.

    Oh, and Randy? Your concern is noted.

  18. kingubu said,

    June 12, 2007 at 13:15

    adb: From personal experience, the proper response to this little clusterfuck is “I like hash!�

    When the hash gives out try this

  19. MzNicky said,

    June 12, 2007 at 13:36

    This boy’s scrawlin’s is a good example of how too much schoolin’ (with, apparently, very little learnin’) can fuck up your writin’. Hang out in academia too long and you start to lose whatever chops you had when you went in.

  20. kingubu said,

    June 12, 2007 at 13:44

    You know that old trick about stripping out all the adjectives and adverbs from a piece to see if the thing hangs together without all the decoration? If you try that with the Goldstein piece DA quotes above all you’re left with is “Sold my ass to a hobo for for his Seroqel prescription. Please don’t tell dad.”

  21. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 14:04

    Some Guy said,
    June 12, 2007 at 11:44

    Well, I read your link. Am I still a dumbass?

    Yes. And judging by what you write in the comments of this blog you always will be. You remind me of the comment tools over there at JG- can’t think for yourself, blindly following the tribe.

    Whatever. I’m not feeding a concern troll.

    heh. Dumbass.

  22. Kevin Bacon Holding Playdoh said,

    June 12, 2007 at 14:23

    Poor obsessional sociopaths with a desperate need for “Lulz”… “Kevin” wasn’t getting you into the Encyclopedia Dramaticae enough eh? Time for concern trolling; We’ll get the death of Steve Gilliard and all the attendent asshattery in instead!

    For those of you with more sense than sociopathy, the simple answer to endless repeats of “It’s all tribal! Identity Politics! And so on!” is that… well… isn’t obsessionally repeating how bad Jesus’ General and his supporters are, and declaring how “the Left” must purge our ranks of them, doing exactly the same thing? Yes, yes you know, I rather think that it is. And most of it (including quoting people on the Right, and their epithets for the left) is just trying to goad people into a reaction anyway. So ignore the silly, lonely little man.

  23. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 14:26

    Jillian said,
    June 12, 2007 at 12:06

    I swear to Christ I’m not getting involved in any of this shit.

    But I will hate myself forever if I resist saying two things:

    1.) Identity politics suck ass.

    2.) Feminism has become a sea of sadness since it allowed itself to be shifted from a goals-oriented movement to a politic of identity.

    The whole thing is sad. But I think at this point, the less attention paid to it, the better.

    Shorter Jillian- ba ba ba ba (fingers in ears)

    ahem said,
    June 12, 2007 at 13:03
    Oh, and Randy? Your concern is noted.

    Fuck concern, I’m kinda enjoying watching sanctimonious wannabee tough guy “Jesus General” implode. That guys shtick has been tired for years and his barely literate “general suh” sycophants are… well, creepy. He’s too fucking thin skinned/ dumb to admit/know he singlehandedly brought smantix stupid parody to a greater audience. ( see Protein Wisdom). Nice work, way to show your respect for the dead.

    Oh, “Some Guy” see if you can lip read thru this one, dumbass-
    http://faultline.org/index.php/site/comments/resignation_an_open_letter_to_the_progressive_blogosphere/

  24. Patkin said,

    June 12, 2007 at 14:33

    Y’know what’s fantastic about Randall’s comments? There is, in fact, no way to win. Either we argue with him, thus “proving” we’re close-minded tribalists, or we ignore him, and “prove” we’re burying our heads in the sand.

    That’s some impressive no-win framing.

    I suppose we could feign agreement and hope he goes away, but then we’d actually be wrong. Which shows just how impressive this framing is. Any answer is just going to ensure he continues hanging around valiantly shaming us for associating with those dirty progressive bloggers and not shaming the shit out of them along with ol’ Randall and being independent thinkers just like him.

    In other news, you bore me, Randall. Your shtick is already old.

  25. Allienne Goddard said,

    June 12, 2007 at 14:35

    The only reason I consider myself a liberal is that we never agree on anything, and the only reason we band together is we hate the enemy more than we hate each other. It is perfectly good and right for different interest groups to represent their own specific interests for the betterment of their constituency. Liberals always should win because we are always the majority. Women, racial and ethnic minorities, and
    the working class. The majority. Naturally we disagree constantly.

    The only people not on our side are the rich and the sadly deceived. It is a simple fact that if you have a net worth of less than five million dollars you are a fool if you are not liberal. If you have more than that and are still a liberal, good for you.

    Yes, there are many on the left who are flawed. That is irrelevant. We need each other. Once we have put a stop to the slide toward fascism we can have our various coups and bloodlettings. But first things first. Everyone who thinks torture is anti-American raise your hands. Everyone who believes in the right to due process? The right to freely elect your representatives? Rule of Law? Let’s settle these points first. Then we can decide whether we should allocate more of the surplus to education, child care, health care, or work training.

    I hate to be alarmist, but the threat to America has become an existential one. I’m afraid the threat is not external. There are still enough of us to put a stop to it. That is what is important now. That is the only thing that matters. The government is not on our side yet. The mass media is not our ally. Voting is all we have. We have to wake people up, and take power by way of the ballot box.

    Steve was a great guy. I didn’t always agree with his predictions, but I always respected his views and took them seriously. He would see this entire thing as a complete waste of time. Forget those who would distract us from the immediate crisis, and turn us against each other. We agree on the most important things. It is enough.

    Yours — Ally

  26. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 14:35

    Kevin Bacon Holding Playdoh said,
    June 12, 2007 at 14:23

    For those of you with more sense than sociopathy, the simple answer to endless repeats of “It’s all tribal! Identity Politics! And so on!â€? is that… well… isn’t obsessionally repeating how bad Jesus’ General and his supporters are, and declaring how “the Leftâ€? must purge our ranks of them, doing exactly the same thing? …

    Dont expect you to actually read the threads and think for yourself or anything, but you are missing the point, dumbass.
    JG and his drones have gone reallife on bloggers. friendly bloggers even, for no real reason. Thats wrong. But by all means continue burying your head.

  27. Ugluks Flea said,

    June 12, 2007 at 14:38

    Is this the first time the right has noticed a left side pie fight? While this one had an unfortunate effect of someone losing their blogging gig, the dynamic is not dissimilar to every other one that ripples through the progressive bloggy zeitgeist:
    1) Someone does or says something that suggests (or is interpreted as being) they have a wingnut’s take on a big issue that hits at the core of what we believe, not just as progressives, but human beings – racism, misogyny, etc.
    2) Shocked and disappointed that someone on our side would sound like a wingnut, they get called on it
    3) Initial someone either defends or ignores, but either way the pissed off ranks grow
    4) People take sides
    5) Let the pies fly!

    It won’t always happen, only when there isn’t a current goal they share that gives them something else to focus on. I was sort of expecting one, actually, since the november elections were a long time ago and the result of the Iraq supplemental fight was a clusterfuck, so there was a lot of anger and disappointment floating around that was just waiting to find an outlet.

    Oh, and

    …competing narratives vying for established “truthâ€? based entirely on the power and tenacity of an advocacy group’s insistence.

    sums up the Conservative movement to a T. With a big enough ad budget, you can sell anything.

  28. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 14:44

    Patkin said,
    June 12, 2007 at 14:33

    Y’know what’s fantastic about Randall’s comments? There is, in fact, no way to win. Either we argue with him, thus “proving� we’re close-minded tribalists, or we ignore him, and “prove� we’re burying our heads in the sand.

    That’s some impressive no-win framing.

    Heh, Thanks. Awesome ain’t i?

    I suppose we could feign agreement and hope he goes away, but then we’d actually be wrong. Which shows just how impressive this framing is. Any answer is just going to ensure he continues hanging around valiantly shaming us for associating with those dirty progressive bloggers and not shaming the shit out of them along with ol’ Randall and being independent thinkers just like him.

    Of course, you could just agree that going after people’s jobs and school for no reason is wrong, but that would probably require some balls, eh? Might not fit in with the tribe if you say that, eh?

    In other news, you bore me, Randall. Your shtick is already old.

    Dude, are you capable of independent thought? ‘Shtick is old’? Didn’t I just say that up there somewhere?

  29. Patkin said,

    June 12, 2007 at 14:52

    Nope. I’m a commie! We fucking patented groupthink, bee-yotch.

    And gosh, would you not know it, but you are still boring.

  30. Dobby said,

    June 12, 2007 at 14:59

    a world view that privileges the incorrect decoding of a particular interpretive community over the (since established) intent of the utterer, and then gives that interpretive community permission to ascribe to the original utterer the product of the community’s own (often cynically self-interested) interpretive intent.

    I’m gonna take a stab at this and translate it as “liberals attach their own subjective meaning to whatever anyone else says.” See also, Every Supreme Court Decision Ever Written (Scalia, Thomas, Rehnquist, et al.).

  31. MCH said,

    June 12, 2007 at 15:06

    Mmm. Pie. One of the shittiest-tasting ones yet, I might add.

  32. Doodle Bean said,

    June 12, 2007 at 15:39

    1.) Ignore trolls.
    2.) Pasty is an ass.
    3.) Nice summation, D!

  33. rea said,

    June 12, 2007 at 15:45

    a world view that privileges the incorrect decoding of a particular interpretive community over the (since established) intent of the utterer, and then gives that interpretive community permission to ascribe to the original utterer the product of the community’s own (often cynically self-interested) interpretive intent.

    What crap. Ms. Gilbert linked to something hateful without comment. She says she didn’t mean to endorse it, and if you spend several hours reading her archives, that seems to be likely true.

    It’s a curious notion of the author-reader relationship, that puts the burden on the reader to figure out what the author really meant, and gives the author no responsibility to communicate intelligibly.

    Ms. Gilbert turns out to be incompetent rather than vicious, which doesn’t give her a lot of standing to complain about her treatment, particularly considering that she is a professional journalist being paid to blog.

    Kaufman, on the other hand, shows up and gives JG an academic lecture about “context” and its effect on meaning-all the while ignoring the context over at JG, which was that a lot of people were upset about a recent death and vile remarks about their dead friend.

    Note, however, that everyone at the JG site was relatively civil to Kaufman, with one exception, now banned from the site. Nevertheless, the Goldsteins and the Byrds of the blog world want to hold the blogger and other commentors at JG collectively responsible for the out-of-line activities of one individual. Like I said at the beginning of this comment, what crap!

  34. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 15:47

    Two days in a row now I’ve shown up here to try to hijack threads and some of you are more than happy to collaborate with me even though I have nothing of interest to say. I’m not even good at something as simple as trolling yet you feed me. Awesome.

  35. D. Aristophanes said,

    June 12, 2007 at 15:50

    You remind me of the comment tools over there at JG- can’t think for yourself, blindly following the tribe.

    That’s the point, Randall – Jeff Goldstein and his commenters are menaces. You comment quite a bit over at Jeff Goldstein’s place, don’t you?

  36. Karl Steel said,

    June 12, 2007 at 15:52

    In what way is Goldstein being deconstructionist? His confidence in a (unitary?) intent, and thus a unitary subject, as, why not, the transcendental signified of (any?) discourse is pretty clear proof to me that he’s not down with deconstruction.

    Kaufman, on the other hand, shows up and gives JG an academic lecture about “context� and its effect on meaning-all the while ignoring the context over at JG, which was that a lot of people were upset about a recent death and vile remarks about their dead friend.

    Which clearly excuses JG’s fuckup, yeah? If JG was too sad to do things right, maybe he should have held off on posting for a while.

  37. R. Porrofatto said,

    June 12, 2007 at 15:53

    …a world view that privileges the incorrect decoding of a particular interpretive community over the (since established) intent of the utterer, and then gives that interpretive community permission to ascribe to the original utterer the product of the community’s own (often cynically self-interested) interpretive intent.

    Shorter Jeffrey: Al Gore created the Internet!

    Jesus, I first thought this was excellent parody Jeffrey, even if it didn’t screech about fucking dogs or cockslapping. The guy’s gone from laughable to ridiculous. (It’s entertaining to imagine him reading his stuff aloud wearing a Bozo costume and sad but oh-so-serious Emmett Kelly clown makeup.)

    …you could just agree that going after people’s jobs and school for no reason is wrong

    I agree that doing pretty much anything for no reason is wrong. Will you go away now?

  38. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 16:03

    Allienne Goddard said,
    June 12, 2007 at 14:35

    Yes, there are many on the left who are flawed. That is irrelevant. We need each other.

    Wrong.
    Its not about politics, its about online communication, this medium right here.
    Anyone, regardless of their politics, who goes real life, starts harrassing people’s employers or their school over a blog post or a blog comment should be shunned.
    Doesn’t matter if they are a member of your clique or your group or your ‘tribe’. Doesn’t matter if they hate Dick Cheney as much as you. Once they step over that line they should be done, a laughingstock. Ohterwise we surrender the medium to the anonymous mobs.
    HTH

  39. Karl Steel said,

    June 12, 2007 at 16:03

    As for Goldstein’s eagerness to take this incident as an indictment of the whole progressive blogosphere, well, Goldstein’s been riding that ‘intent’ horse for years, and all I can say to that has been said, hilariously enough, by Derrida:

    “That being said, I persist in believing that there is no theoretical or political benefit to be derived from precipitating contacts or articulations, as long as their conditions have not been rigorously elucidated. Eventually such precipitation will have the effect only of dogmatism, confusion, or opportunism” (Positions, 2nd edition in Athlone P, 62). I had written “Zizek” in the margins, but I might as well write Goldstein there, too.

  40. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 16:05

    Randall Byrd said,
    June 12, 2007 at 15:47

    Two days in a row now I’ve shown up here to try to hijack threads and some of you are more than happy to collaborate with me even though I have nothing of interest to say. I’m not even good at something as simple as trolling yet you feed me. Awesome.

    heh. look a fanboi.

  41. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 16:15

    D. Aristophanes said,
    June 12, 2007 at 15:50

    You remind me of the comment tools over there at JG- can’t think for yourself, blindly following the tribe.

    That’s the point, Randall – Jeff Goldstein and his commenters are menaces. You comment quite a bit over at Jeff Goldstein’s place, don’t you?

    You probably won’t believe this, but no. Never read that site. Mostly i read here. Sometimes I have some spare time and drink and comment. We’re having fun right?

    rea said,
    June 12, 2007 at 15:45


    Kaufman, on the other hand, shows up and gives JG an academic lecture about “context� and its effect on meaning-all the while ignoring the context over at JG, which was that a lot of people were upset about a recent death and vile remarks about their dead friend.

    You are being willfully ignorant, right? The link to the thread is up there, go read it again.

    Note, however, that everyone at the JG site was relatively civil to Kaufman, with one exception, now banned from the site.

    heh, now i know you’re just being silly. JG hasn’t banned ‘rupp’, he has, however banned everyone who is critical of him and deleted a lot of critical comments.

  42. Kevin Bacon Holding Playdoh said,

    June 12, 2007 at 16:23

    “Dont expect you to actually read the threads ….”

    Oh, I’ve not just read the threads (and their topics you are trying to distract from), I’ve also read all the trolling guides you are so blindly copying, as well as the trolling forums immature people like you post on to congratulate yourself for having such Lulz.

    The difference is, the better class of trolls know how to control a conversation. You can’t even control yourself, and so we are back to the “Look, I’m wetting my own pants, because I hate you so much!” stage again… and in flailing about, whilst simultaneously proving everyone at Sadly No! is both correct and more talented and humouress than you could ever prove to be, you are undermining your own ability to do anything more than fling poop about. No my friend, I’m not a fanboi or enraged… I actually pity you; you are like the kind of guy who shows off his knife to women in bars, because it may be only a tiny little prick, but by god do women react when they see it! Yeah, they are impressed… or they fear me, yeah! Lone wolf, that’s me! Yeah.

    Poor, poor litle Byrdy… not to worry, you can wave it around even more now to persuade everyone just how seriously we should take you and your efforts. Who knows, you might even persuade yourself that you matter. *pats you on the head* Go on hon, tell yourself how much you matter to us all … perhaps we are even looking up where you work in real life too, eh? Wouldn’t it be horrible if all your trolling during those long shitty hours at that job you hate came to bite you in the ass? But wouldn’t it also be a sign of what a big trolling man you were if they were looking you up too? *pats you on the head again* The internet is serious business, don’t forget! So of course we are! Randall Byrd matters soooo much! *muffled laughter*

    Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to do some housework, to soothe my nerves, which you so terribly shattered with your prescience. Oh woe is me!

  43. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 16:25

    D. Aristophanes said,
    June 12, 2007 at 15:50

    You remind me of the comment tools over there at JG- can’t think for yourself, blindly following the tribe.

    That’s the point, Randall – Jeff Goldstein and his commenters are menaces. You comment quite a bit over at Jeff Goldstein’s place, don’t you?

    Okay, maybe i fibbed a bit when i said ‘Never read that site’. I did earlier read the post you linked to above and the commentors didn’t scare me at all. Were you menaced by the comments to that post? Was it the inside grammar jokes? I didnt get them either, but i didnt feel threatened.

    But back to the point, how do you feel about attacking people in real life over a blog post or a blog comment? Okay with you as long as they are on your team, or not?

  44. kc said,

    June 12, 2007 at 16:28

    Shit. People suck, is all I can say about this whole thing.

  45. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 16:33

    Kevin Bacon Holding Playdoh said,
    June 12, 2007 at 16:23

    “Dont expect you to actually read the threads ….�

    Oh, I’ve not just read the threads (and their topics you are trying to distract from), I’ve also read all the trolling guides you are so blindly copying, as well as the trolling forums immature people like you post on to congratulate yourself for having such Lulz.

    The difference is, the better class of trolls know how to control a conversation. You can’t even control yourself, and so we are back to the “Look, I’m wetting my own pants, because I hate you so much!� stage again… and in flailing about, whilst simultaneously proving everyone at Sadly No! is both correct and more talented and humouress than you could ever prove to be, you are undermining your own ability to do anything more than fling poop about. No my friend, I’m not a fanboi or enraged… I actually pity you; you are like the kind of guy who shows off his knife to women in bars, because it may be only a tiny little prick, but by god do women react when they see it! Yeah, they are impressed… or they fear me, yeah! Lone wolf, that’s me! Yeah.

    Poor, poor litle Byrdy… not to worry, you can wave it around even more now to persuade everyone just how seriously we should take you and your efforts. Who knows, you might even persuade yourself that you matter. *pats you on the head* Go on hon, tell yourself how much you matter to us all … perhaps we are even looking up where you work in real life too, eh? Wouldn’t it be horrible if all your trolling during those long shitty hours at that job you hate came to bite you in the ass? But wouldn’t it also be a sign of what a big trolling man you were if they were looking you up too? *pats you on the head again* The internet is serious business, don’t forget! So of course we are! Randall Byrd matters soooo much! *muffled laughter*

    Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to do some housework, to soothe my nerves, which you so terribly shattered with your prescience. Oh woe is me!

    heh, Dude, if you think I’m a troll and trolls bother you so much then maybe…

    But kudos for the proper british spelling of “humouress”.

  46. Dennis Savage said,

    June 12, 2007 at 16:45

    What Goddard said. Word!

  47. Nimrod Gently said,

    June 12, 2007 at 17:23

    But as Clarke’s essay spells out (however tentatively), the problem is far more widespread than Kaufman would like to admit — and indeed, for my part, I’ve come it see it as systemic, following naturally from an interpretive paradigm that of necessity culminates in competing narratives vying for established “truth� based entirely on the power and tenacity of an advocacy group’s insistence.

    I actually understand that, but then I could always follow what Sir Humphrey was saying on Yes Minister.

  48. sagra said,

    June 12, 2007 at 17:35

    I’ve seen that exact flamewar enacted on Livejournal maybe 500 times. You can do things to fan them hotter (like, oh I don’t know, playing victim and posting Goodbye Cruel World posts) or you can do things to cool them off (like telling commenters to cool it.)

    One thing you count on is that people like Gilbert and her little fans would rather see the world burn down rather than admit a mistake.

  49. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 17:55

    sagra said,
    June 12, 2007 at 17:35

    I’ve seen that exact flamewar enacted on Livejournal maybe 500 times. You can do things to fan them hotter (like, oh I don’t know, playing victim and posting Goodbye Cruel World posts) or you can do things to cool them off (like telling commenters to cool it.)

    One thing you count on is that people like Gilbert and her little fans would rather see the world burn down rather than admit a mistake.

    Now that is some funny shit. You’ve seen flamewars on Livejournal, that means you’ve been around, eh? What are you like 18, 19? An old timer who understands internet communication. Thats why you don’t use your real name, you hide behind a nym, because you know, as an oldtimer, that if you use your real name some sociopaths could dump letters on your employer or your school and fuck with your real life. You, as an oldtimer, appreciate the mob rule and think anyone who uses their real name deserves everything they get. You rock!

  50. Kevin Bacon Holding Playdoh said,

    June 12, 2007 at 18:05

    Poor, poor Byrdie… *pats on head*… only he could be so desperate for attention he’d automatically try and reverse everything anyone says, no matter how foolish it made himself look!

    Mr Bacon Says: “You are silly, I pity you”
    Kevin Says: “You just said how much I bother you! I = teh winnah!”

    Oops, you are only Kevin in the above thread, sorry! It’s still Byrdie down here, isn’t it?
    Oh, and I love it when trolls copy the Grammar Nazi method of trolling, simply because they’ve read how to do it on the ED, but don’t have the slightest common sense enough to know that it doesn’t work all the time; like… wouldn’t it look even more ridiculous if I actually WAS British, eh? Not that it matters, because as I’m so keen to be offended, oh yes I am, that I actually believe I live where ever and think whatever trolls tell me I do at any moment in time! It’s like I’m that famous cat! Sociopath’s Cat or whatever it was called!

    Silly Kevin. What an empty life you must lead, if you have to have imaginary conversations like this. Why, next you’ll be telling me exactly how much effort I put into replies like this! And… it’s a lot!

    But thanks for continuing to show us that only those that hate Sadly No! don’t know how to truly bring the Lulz!

  51. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 18:13

    Kevin Bacon Holding Playdoh said,
    June 12, 2007 at 18:05

    Poor, poor Byrdie… *pats on head*… only he could be so desperate for attention he’d automatically try and reverse everything anyone says, no matter how foolish it made himself look!

    Mr Bacon Says: “You are silly, I pity you�
    Kevin Says: “You just said how much I bother you! I = teh winnah!�

    Oops, you are only Kevin in the above thread, sorry! It’s still Byrdie down here, isn’t it?
    Oh, and I love it when trolls copy the Grammar Nazi method of trolling, simply because they’ve read how to do it on the ED, but don’t have the slightest common sense enough to know that it doesn’t work all the time; like… wouldn’t it look even more ridiculous if I actually WAS British, eh? Not that it matters, because as I’m so keen to be offended, oh yes I am, that I actually believe I live where ever and think whatever trolls tell me I do at any moment in time! It’s like I’m that famous cat! Sociopath’s Cat or whatever it was called!

    Silly Kevin. What an empty life you must lead, if you have to have imaginary conversations like this. Why, next you’ll be telling me exactly how much effort I put into replies like this! And… it’s a lot!

    But thanks for continuing to show us that only those that hate Sadly No! don’t know how to truly bring the Lulz!

    Hey chuckles, I’m about to call it a night, its been fun and all, but its getting late. If you want to continue making a twat of yourself, respond now, I might consider staying up for another hour or so to laugh at you.

  52. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 18:20

    Oh and D. Aristophanes, thanks for the thread. Must admit I’m a bit disappointed by your shyness on the real life harrasment question, but i understand, you don’t want to step on tribal toes. You ever want me to rule a comment thread again, just give a holler.
    Randall

  53. MCH said,

    June 12, 2007 at 18:26

    Desperate Cry for Attention Pie, anyone? The meringue is just perfect this time.

  54. ironicname said,

    June 12, 2007 at 18:32

    So, blogger #1 posts a portion of a racist rant about the recently deceased on a corporate web-site with no comment.
    Blogger #2 goes bugfuck over this vileness, points it out on a popular site, and writes himself a little letter to the corporate sponsors of the web site. Corporate web site, one more time: corporate web site
    People jump to the denfense of blogger #1.
    Blogger #2 regrets his descision and retracts after hearing the case.
    Blogger #1 leaves the blog because, get this, she was going to anyway and had another gig lined up before this started.
    Tempest meet teacup.
    Then some dude goes nuts and starts harassing someone. Who knew that there are crazies everywhere?

    BTW – the OH NOES! the *gasp* PATRIARCY *ungasp* is opressing me because I have female sex organs and I feel faint and need to go have a good crying lie down from blogger #1 was pathetic.

  55. tb said,

    June 12, 2007 at 18:42

    But as Clarke’s essay spells out (however tentatively), the problem is far more widespread than Kaufman would like to admit — and indeed, for my part, I’ve come it see it as systemic, following naturally from an interpretive paradigm that of necessity culminates in competing narratives vying for established “truth� based entirely on the power and tenacity of an advocacy group’s insistence.

    Ah, he’s back. The old urine-stained bathrobe himself. I think you call this dialect Failed Academic-Klonopinese.

  56. Kevin Bacon Holding Playdoh said,

    June 12, 2007 at 18:54

    “Hey chuckles, I’m about to call it a night, its been fun and all, but its getting late.”

    It’s not getting late in the United Kingdom… *gasp* … You mean you shouldn’t be using the British spelling either?!

    Oh, you’ll notice I also used the “I’m off to mow the lawn” line earlier, as recommended by many trolling sites too. And now you use it again… gosh, but when you say you are leaving again, it’s so convincing this time! He he he, not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you?

    But please, don’t let me keep you from your exciting life… I’m sure every single hour is just CRAMMED with mature and fulfilling things to do! Like making a complete tit of yourself on a web-blog, oooooh a web-blog, and then declaring you “Rule” it. Bet that really impresses the girls down the pub, eh? And afterwards, you can go onto Ventrilo and start using your breaking, squeeky voice to curse out and annoy people in role playing games! Just like all those other South Park Republican’s did in that episode of South Park! What’s that, you don’t do such nerdy things? Why, I just said you DO, and as this is how I am currently imagining you, it must be true that’s who you are! Now stay and get annoyed at what I just said, even if you don’t!

    *pats head again*

    Poor fellow… don’t worry though, just declare you still “Rule”, and all this will go away :) Although you will, of course, be back again later regardless. I’ll probably alt-tab in later too, and give you some more throw away replies, natch! You do realise that I’ve already dragged you off even pretending to care about the topic, and into mindless contrarianism already, yes? Just think where we’ll go dancing together later, eh? Can’t wait… it’s a date! See you later, honey!

    *one last pat o’the head*

    Mwah!

  57. Kuda Bux said,

    June 12, 2007 at 18:58

    This is like when the AV club rumbled with the Mathletes.

  58. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 19:06

    MCH said,
    June 12, 2007 at 18:26

    Desperate Cry for Attention Pie, anyone? The meringue is just perfect this time.

    When you are done with that, chubby, you might enjoy a slice of YHBT cake.
    With peanuts!

  59. HTML Mencken said,

    June 12, 2007 at 19:07

    OH shit

  60. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 19:13

    Kevin Bacon Holding Playdoh said,
    June 12, 2007 at 18:54

    “Hey chuckles, I’m about to call it a night, its been fun and all, but its getting late.�

    It’s not getting late in the United Kingdom… *gasp* … You mean you shouldn’t be using the British spelling either?!

    Oh, you’ll notice I also used the “I’m off to mow the lawn� line earlier, as recommended by many trolling sites too. And now you use it again… gosh, but when you say you are leaving again, it’s so convincing this time! He he he, not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you?

    But please, don’t let me keep you from your exciting life… I’m sure every single hour is just CRAMMED with mature and fulfilling things to do! Like making a complete tit of yourself on a web-blog, oooooh a web-blog, and then declaring you “Rule� it. Bet that really impresses the girls down the pub, eh? And afterwards, you can go onto Ventrilo and start using your breaking, squeeky voice to curse out and annoy people in role playing games! Just like all those other South Park Republican’s did in that episode of South Park! What’s that, you don’t do such nerdy things? Why, I just said you DO, and as this is how I am currently imagining you, it must be true that’s who you are! Now stay and get annoyed at what I just said, even if you don’t!

    *pats head again*

    Poor fellow… don’t worry though, just declare you still “Rule�, and all this will go away :) Although you will, of course, be back again later regardless. I’ll probably alt-tab in later too, and give you some more throw away replies, natch! You do realise that I’ve already dragged you off even pretending to care about the topic, and into mindless contrarianism already, yes? Just think where we’ll go dancing together later, eh? Can’t wait… it’s a date! See you later, honey!

    *one last pat o’the head*

    Mwah!

    Oh look you are back, right on schedule hook line and sinker.
    You are a chick, right? Looking for some of that hot Randall Byrd action.
    So what are you wearing?

    Okay I know in real life you are a hideously obese shutin, but humour me.
    Tell me about your supple tan nubile thighs, your lacy white panties, your pink pouting pudenda.

  61. Randall Byrd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 19:16

    HTML Mencken said,
    June 12, 2007 at 19:07

    OH shit

    Ain’t online communication fun? Now step back boy, I’m about to get some lovin’.

  62. Gus said,

    June 12, 2007 at 19:38

    Wow, I have no idea what this stupid dustup is all about, nor do I care. Goldstein’s writing is absolutely horrible. Reminds me of everything I hate about academe.

  63. Rachel said,

    June 12, 2007 at 20:50

    Note, however, that everyone at the JG site was relatively civil to Kaufman, with one exception, now banned from the site.

    Actually, SEK is banned from the site. The General told “The Ghost of Adolph Rupp” to lay low for a few days, so he could lie to SEK and claim he didn’t have the IP information any more.

  64. Righteous Bubba said,

    June 12, 2007 at 20:57

    The General told “The Ghost of Adolph Rupp� to lay low for a few days, so he could lie to SEK and claim he didn’t have the IP information any more.

    You’re the only person I’ve seen post this assertion.

  65. Rachel said,

    June 12, 2007 at 21:06

    Read it right here:

    I had sent [Casper] three emails. He has responded to none. Now he believes I have committed a crime against him. He learned of my desire to discover his identity from the General. Here is my email (to which the General never responded):

    Would it be possible to get the IP information for the Ghost of Adolph Rupp? He’s stepped up his behavior and is now bordering on harassment. I have his name, but I need to know which “John Casper” he is.

    When “John Casper” asked whether the General would share that information, the General responded:

    not going to do it. stay off the comments for awhile so i can say there’s no way to find your ip.

    I’m considering revoking my opinion of the General. I no longer think he’s a classy guy. So at this point I still do not know the identity of the man who is threatening my career. Moreover, he is conspiring with others to hide his identity from me. You can read the complete text of his letter below the fold. As to why I am publishing this information, the first reason is because I have absolutely nothing to hide. The second is that he is copying his emails to news outlets, and in so doing indicates that he wants people to read them. (He includes the General’s email in an attachment, and I assume “John Casper” sought the General’s permission to do so. If he did not, I will remove the General’s words from this site.)

    Do you think SEK is lying?

  66. Everybody on the Internet said,

    June 12, 2007 at 21:11

    I’m so lonely. So very, very lonely.

  67. Bd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 21:23

    Just fyi, “Rachel” is, more likely than not, Goldstein/Charles Johnson fluffer “Pablo/Powderfinger”.

  68. Righteous Bubba said,

    June 12, 2007 at 21:53

    Do you think SEK is lying?

    Nope, I’d missed that part of his writings.

    It’s a sorry affair all around, and is much nicer to talk about in verse.

  69. a different brad said,

    June 12, 2007 at 22:06

    I LIKE HASH!
    I LIKE HASH!
    I LIKE HASH!
    YOU SHOULD TOO.

  70. SEK said,

    June 12, 2007 at 22:19

    For the record, I don’t think Rachel’s “Pablo,” because I know she’s Rachel. Still, I’ve asked people to stop the defense of me, so hopefully, they will. That said, I do think the reaction of the General’s cohorts is telling: many of them emailed me in anger for slandering their General (see, for example, the new post on my site); but many of them also emailed because they were angry with the General, for how he’s supported Casper’s campaign against me. This is only to repeat what I said at CT: “I no longer comfort myself with the thought that my ideological compatriots have any sort of monopoly on sanity,” to which I’d add, “or integrity.”

  71. wordyeti said,

    June 12, 2007 at 22:21

    Man, there’s so much pie hereabouts, I just don’t know where to start.

    HTML – can’t we just photoshop some sammiches and take this whole “you’ve got your head in the sand/no, you’re a prat” to its logical extreme?

  72. Nim, ham hock of liberty said,

    June 12, 2007 at 22:46

    There are about 48 different Ignatius Reillys involved in this whole stupid dust-up, and most of them have posted on this thread.

    It’s enough to turn one libertarian.

  73. Bd said,

    June 12, 2007 at 23:13

    My bad. I was led astray by this comment:

    http://proteinwisdom.com/index.php?/weblog/entry/23278/#274327

  74. Jrod said,

    June 12, 2007 at 23:26

    Fuck the General. If he and his runnin crew think collecting scalps from the left is funny, then fuck him. I’ll be goddamned if I ever give his site any traffic again.

    Aw, what? He was sad? Therefore anything he and his crew does is A-OK? Nope. Fuck that.

    Lucky for me my real name isn’t out there, or I may have people trying to get me fired for saying that. As we’ve learned in the past few days, saying things that Patriotboy doesn’t like is the worst crime you could possibly commit, certainly somewhere below trying to destroy a person’s career.

    Patriotboy made it pretty clear that his problem with Casper’s actions was merely that he had to hear about it. Not that Casper is lying to SEK’s bosses in order to ruin SEK’s life.

    Fuck the General. He jumped the shark in a big, big way.

  75. a different brad said,

    June 12, 2007 at 23:47

    As countless people have said, no one came out of this smelling like roses.
    But I think you’re being a little hard on the Beaver, here, Ward.
    If this Ghost of person is genuinely losing it, which by all appearances is the case, then you could interpret teh General’s response as an attempt not to also become a victim of this developing crazy or feed the flames. I’ll bet JC has faced some real bad net crazies in his time, so being gun-shy around them is understandable.
    That doesn’t excuse leaving SEK out to hang, disagreement or no, but I’m guessing there’s more at play here than apathy.
    I’m also not trying to tell you how to feel about this.

  76. Jrod said,

    June 13, 2007 at 0:09

    Aw, it’s cool adb, I won’t be committing Jihad on anyone who still likes Patriotboy. I just had to get that off my chest, and doing so over at the General’s place would just get me deleted, insta-banned, and reported to my ISP for harassment. Whereas posting it here gets me made fun of! Much preferable, I’m sure you’ll agree.

  77. SEK said,

    June 13, 2007 at 3:29

    adb:

    That doesn’t excuse leaving SEK out to hang, disagreement or no, but I’m guessing there’s more at play here than apathy.

    If you have any clue what that is, I’d love to be let in on the secret. I’d lurked at JG’s until last Thursday night. Never commented before. I don’t know what his problem is with me or why he’s overreacted as he had. My best guess is that he’s close friends with Casper, and wanted to protect him at all costs. (I say “protect” but mean “shield him so that he might harass me,” which is why I called bullshit on him.)

  78. Comrade Rutherford said,

    June 13, 2007 at 3:31

    Sweet Jesus, Randall Byrd is such a monumental 4$$HOL3.

    He really needs to sign up with Assaholics Anonymous and get himself some help.

  79. Mo's Bike Shop said,

    June 13, 2007 at 7:11

    Hey Mister! Can we have our blog black, please?

  80. brooksfoe said,

    June 13, 2007 at 16:49

    Umm….not that anybody will read this anymore, but isn’t the basic hypocrisy of Goldstein’s comment more the fact that JEFF GOLDSTEIN HIMSELF PERSONALLY SEARCHED OUT A COMMENTER’S REAL-WORLD I.D. AND GOT HER FIRED FROM HER JOB FOR SATIRICAL POSTS SHE MADE ON HIS BLOG?

    Google “Deb Frisch”.

    “How pernicious is a world view that privileges the incorrect decoding of a particular interpretive community over the (since established) intent of the utterer,” indeed. What a jerk.

  81. nate-dogg said,

    June 13, 2007 at 18:19

    Hell, I’ve now met, through this site, social conservatives with a better sense of humor than many on the left. Who have a sense of humor—just not when something’s aimed at them.

    Posted by Jeff Goldstein | permalink

    For instance, posts like, “A conversation with an yet-to-be-cooked bowl of ramen noodles about Nancy Pelosi’s betrayal of America”?

    Oh, shit, I laughed so hard I think I broke something.

    Whew, National Lampoon in the 70′s gots nothin on Jeff Goldstein.

  82. sagra said,

    June 13, 2007 at 21:12

    Dear Randall,

    Taking internet flamewars to real life is, like uncool, man. It’s just wrong. Sorry I didn’t make that clear in my previous post.

    That said, I don’t see any particular advantage in using a real name in the comments section of a blog. Seems like it would make it that much easier for ID thieves.

    Have a lovely day.

  83. Back In The Saddle Again, Plus Meta-Blogging and Rorty « The Kugelmass Episodes said,

    June 14, 2007 at 2:56

    [...] important political discourse concerns the upcoming race for the Democratic nomination. Sadly No! wrote a decent post on the Brittney/SEK situation (in response to some horrible conservative blogger), but had to throw [...]

  84. Randall Byrd said,

    June 14, 2007 at 9:44

    sagra said,
    June 13, 2007 at 21:12

    Dear Randall,

    Taking internet flamewars to real life is, like uncool, man. It’s just wrong. Sorry I didn’t make that clear in my previous post.

    That said, I don’t see any particular advantage in using a real name in the comments section of a blog. Seems like it would make it that much easier for ID thieves.


    Randall Byrd agrees.

    Have a lovely day.

    You too.

  85. Jeff G said,

    June 18, 2007 at 19:09

    So. I take it the detente is over, then?

    As for this: “JEFF GOLDSTEIN HIMSELF PERSONALLY SEARCHED OUT A COMMENTER’S REAL-WORLD I.D. AND GOT HER FIRED FROM HER JOB FOR SATIRICAL POSTS SHE MADE ON HIS BLOG?”

    Completely untrue. I didn’t speak to her employers. Nor did I search out her real identity (she posted under it and linked to her blog; she spoke of where she worked in order to credential herself and not appear a failed academic, because as a real academic, she was clearly smarter than everyone else). In fact, my site underwent DOS attacks right after I posted The Good Doc’s comments, so I wasn’t able to post follow-up info. I wanted to make sure it was actually her doing the posting, and not someone using her name (as I made clear in a post at the time).

    I had nothing to do with her “resigning” — other than having highlighted “the satirical” material about how she hoped my son wasn’t murdered that she wrote on my site. I never gave out her work / school email.

    Incidentally, she has since taken to calling me a pedophile, and mused over contacting child and family services. “Satirically,” of course.

    Just for the record. Which I see is quite open to finessing here.

  86. Major Darty said,

    May 22, 2011 at 10:36

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