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	<title>Comments on: Certain comments deserve special recognition</title>
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	<description>Poise! Poise!</description>
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		<title>By: atheist</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-2#comment-232681</link>
		<dc:creator>atheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-232681</guid>
		<description>Personally, I think that a robot butler, or a personal jet pack would have been &lt;i&gt;way&lt;/i&gt; cooler than a robot-controlled factory. But that&#039;s just me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I think that a robot butler, or a personal jet pack would have been <i>way</i> cooler than a robot-controlled factory. But that&#8217;s just me.</p>
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		<title>By: windy</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-2#comment-205715</link>
		<dc:creator>windy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 23:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205715</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Seriously, itâ€™s like motherfuckers arenâ€™t even reading Frederick Pohl anymore.&lt;/i&gt;

Or James Patrick Kelly. Think like a dinosaur!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Seriously, itâ€™s like motherfuckers arenâ€™t even reading Frederick Pohl anymore.</i></p>
<p>Or James Patrick Kelly. Think like a dinosaur!</p>
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		<title>By: Duros62</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-2#comment-205568</link>
		<dc:creator>Duros62</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 17:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205568</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Duros62, I salute you. Itâ€™s a good thing my keyboard has a protective covering that magically repels fur and nasal-delivery-beverages, otherwise Iâ€™d be coughing up a furball for another laptop right about now.&lt;/i&gt;

Welp. my work here is done. =)

Bubba, thank you thank you thank you for finding that John Weldon film. I have been looking for that for years now. Saw it once and can&#039;t keep it outta my head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Duros62, I salute you. Itâ€™s a good thing my keyboard has a protective covering that magically repels fur and nasal-delivery-beverages, otherwise Iâ€™d be coughing up a furball for another laptop right about now.</i></p>
<p>Welp. my work here is done. =)</p>
<p>Bubba, thank you thank you thank you for finding that John Weldon film. I have been looking for that for years now. Saw it once and can&#8217;t keep it outta my head.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Someone</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205534</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Someone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205534</guid>
		<description>One more book rec on the topic: John C. Wright&#039;s trilogy, &lt;i&gt;The Golden Age&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i&gt;The Phoenix Exultant&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;The Golden Transcendence&lt;/i&gt;.  Set in the far, far far future, and loaded with ideas about these very issues -- in fact, a significant portion of the story involves the question of whether a person whose primary body died and who was reloaded from a backup copy, missing an hour of time, is in fact the same person (and thus heir to the original&#039;s wealth).  There&#039;s a lot more to it than that, including a wide variety of different mental forms humans might choose to take in the distant future.  Not perfect books, but pretty good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more book rec on the topic: John C. Wright&#8217;s trilogy, <i>The Golden Age</i>, <i>The Phoenix Exultant</i> and <i>The Golden Transcendence</i>.  Set in the far, far far future, and loaded with ideas about these very issues &#8212; in fact, a significant portion of the story involves the question of whether a person whose primary body died and who was reloaded from a backup copy, missing an hour of time, is in fact the same person (and thus heir to the original&#8217;s wealth).  There&#8217;s a lot more to it than that, including a wide variety of different mental forms humans might choose to take in the distant future.  Not perfect books, but pretty good.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne Laurie</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205334</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne Laurie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 07:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205334</guid>
		<description>Qetesh, I was going to mention Lem, but RBubba beat me to it.  Also Henry Kuttner, although some might protest that C.L. Moore may have been responsible for &quot;his&quot; best stuff.   And of course Terry Pratchett.  There are plenty of men who do interesting wetware stuff, if only my aging mind had not shed so many memory neurons, but I&#039;d be the first to agree that women have a sizable numeric advantage when it comes to the stuff with actual characters instead of just Tom Swift.  And some of the best men-who-write-about-people are non-white or gay or otherwise Outside the Privileged Circle (oh, yes, Chip Delany).  

&lt;i&gt;Would there be a Greasemonkey option that would kick in when Iâ€™m channel surfing and if I see William Kristol on TV heâ€™ll just be talking about pie?&lt;/i&gt;

When they market *that* option, I&#039;ll seriously consider downloading my brain.  Seriously, though, I&#039;&#039;m so shallow and self-centric that my problem with the whole NanoHumanity field is the same as my problem with Libertarianism:  Theoretically it might sound like an excellent idea, but the individuals I&#039;ve actually &lt;b&gt;met&lt;/b&gt; who are most committed  are such dreary, obnoxious, undersocialized bores that I don&#039;t want to spend a long wet afternoon in their company, much less the rest of virtual eternity.  Given the choice of Glenn Reynolds forever and immanent death, I&#039;d choose the carbon monoxide with a quickness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Qetesh, I was going to mention Lem, but RBubba beat me to it.  Also Henry Kuttner, although some might protest that C.L. Moore may have been responsible for &#8220;his&#8221; best stuff.   And of course Terry Pratchett.  There are plenty of men who do interesting wetware stuff, if only my aging mind had not shed so many memory neurons, but I&#8217;d be the first to agree that women have a sizable numeric advantage when it comes to the stuff with actual characters instead of just Tom Swift.  And some of the best men-who-write-about-people are non-white or gay or otherwise Outside the Privileged Circle (oh, yes, Chip Delany).  </p>
<p><i>Would there be a Greasemonkey option that would kick in when Iâ€™m channel surfing and if I see William Kristol on TV heâ€™ll just be talking about pie?</i></p>
<p>When they market *that* option, I&#8217;ll seriously consider downloading my brain.  Seriously, though, I&#8221;m so shallow and self-centric that my problem with the whole NanoHumanity field is the same as my problem with Libertarianism:  Theoretically it might sound like an excellent idea, but the individuals I&#8217;ve actually <b>met</b> who are most committed  are such dreary, obnoxious, undersocialized bores that I don&#8217;t want to spend a long wet afternoon in their company, much less the rest of virtual eternity.  Given the choice of Glenn Reynolds forever and immanent death, I&#8217;d choose the carbon monoxide with a quickness.</p>
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		<title>By: mikey</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205271</link>
		<dc:creator>mikey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205271</guid>
		<description>Indeed.  But quantum mechanical predictions can be described as a number of solutions, ranked based upon statistical probability. You&#039;re measuring &lt;i&gt;likelihoods&lt;/i&gt;, not actualities. And therein, the larger scale observable is the determining measurement....

mikey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed.  But quantum mechanical predictions can be described as a number of solutions, ranked based upon statistical probability. You&#8217;re measuring <i>likelihoods</i>, not actualities. And therein, the larger scale observable is the determining measurement&#8230;.</p>
<p>mikey</p>
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		<title>By: F</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205261</link>
		<dc:creator>F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205261</guid>
		<description>Wildly implausible is a very good description.  Your description of his theory is a lot more specific than the one he sets out in &quot;The Emperor&#039;s New Mind&quot;.  It is therefore even less plausible.

It has been shown that quantum tunneling is significant in the movements of particles as massive as protons, even at room temperature, and it has been hypothesized that certain enzymes that involve proton transfers have specifically evolved to take advantage of these effects.  Judith Klinman at Berkeley has been studying this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wildly implausible is a very good description.  Your description of his theory is a lot more specific than the one he sets out in &#8220;The Emperor&#8217;s New Mind&#8221;.  It is therefore even less plausible.</p>
<p>It has been shown that quantum tunneling is significant in the movements of particles as massive as protons, even at room temperature, and it has been hypothesized that certain enzymes that involve proton transfers have specifically evolved to take advantage of these effects.  Judith Klinman at Berkeley has been studying this.</p>
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		<title>By: Herr Doktor Bimler</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205259</link>
		<dc:creator>Herr Doktor Bimler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205259</guid>
		<description>Also, &#039;Echo round his Bones&#039;, by Thomas Disch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, &#8216;Echo round his Bones&#8217;, by Thomas Disch.</p>
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		<title>By: mikey</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205258</link>
		<dc:creator>mikey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205258</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But wouldnâ€™t the electronic transfer involved in neuron activity also be at the sub-atomic level, since weâ€™re talking about transfer of electrons? Electrons are where the Heisenberg uncertainty principle comes in.&lt;/i&gt;

This is a good, and interesting question.  Here in &#039;Silicon&#039; Valley, it&#039;s been a critically important question for at least fifteen years.  There were concerns that an effect called &quot;quantum tunneling&quot; would undermine processor accuracy at the 100Nm feature size.  And many very strange, highly advanced workarounds were proposed.  We are now going into production with dies at 45Nm.  Still not a real problem.  All we&#039;re doing here, making processors at Intel and AMD, is manipulating electrons.  Remember, electrons are the lowest mass particles that can occur and be manipulated in the world we live in, and the only Leptons we regularly manage.

So it turns out that up to some as yet unspecified level, quantum effects can be kept at bay.  Science doesn&#039;t sit back and be a victim of physics, it USES physics to manage materials and effects.  That&#039;s a good thing....

mikey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But wouldnâ€™t the electronic transfer involved in neuron activity also be at the sub-atomic level, since weâ€™re talking about transfer of electrons? Electrons are where the Heisenberg uncertainty principle comes in.</i></p>
<p>This is a good, and interesting question.  Here in &#8216;Silicon&#8217; Valley, it&#8217;s been a critically important question for at least fifteen years.  There were concerns that an effect called &#8220;quantum tunneling&#8221; would undermine processor accuracy at the 100Nm feature size.  And many very strange, highly advanced workarounds were proposed.  We are now going into production with dies at 45Nm.  Still not a real problem.  All we&#8217;re doing here, making processors at Intel and AMD, is manipulating electrons.  Remember, electrons are the lowest mass particles that can occur and be manipulated in the world we live in, and the only Leptons we regularly manage.</p>
<p>So it turns out that up to some as yet unspecified level, quantum effects can be kept at bay.  Science doesn&#8217;t sit back and be a victim of physics, it USES physics to manage materials and effects.  That&#8217;s a good thing&#8230;.</p>
<p>mikey</p>
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		<title>By: Herr Doktor Bimler</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205257</link>
		<dc:creator>Herr Doktor Bimler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205257</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Ya caught me mikey. Quantum uncertainty occurs at the sub-atomic level, not the molecular. Although no one round here thinks youâ€™re a hoodlum.&lt;/i&gt;
Penrose&#039;s idea (well, not &lt;i&gt;his&lt;/i&gt; idea, but one he likes enough to promote it) is that the interior of the microtubules that make up a neuron&#039;s cellular skeleton might become quantum-coherent, despite being well above the usual coherence temperatures. This is a bit of a hack to allow quantum indeterminacy  at cellular scale. 
The argument strikes me as wildly implausible, but not batshit-crazy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Ya caught me mikey. Quantum uncertainty occurs at the sub-atomic level, not the molecular. Although no one round here thinks youâ€™re a hoodlum.</i><br />
Penrose&#8217;s idea (well, not <i>his</i> idea, but one he likes enough to promote it) is that the interior of the microtubules that make up a neuron&#8217;s cellular skeleton might become quantum-coherent, despite being well above the usual coherence temperatures. This is a bit of a hack to allow quantum indeterminacy  at cellular scale.<br />
The argument strikes me as wildly implausible, but not batshit-crazy.</p>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205249</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205249</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s worth mentioning that Stanislaw Lem is a far smarter author, if cornier, than almost anybody mentioned so far.  The Cyberiad and The Star Diaries completely destroyed my interest in science fiction because everybody else looked like a shallow idiot next to him, even when he was cribbing from Borges.

Lem has quite a bit to say about every ethical problem of note that science fiction can think of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s worth mentioning that Stanislaw Lem is a far smarter author, if cornier, than almost anybody mentioned so far.  The Cyberiad and The Star Diaries completely destroyed my interest in science fiction because everybody else looked like a shallow idiot next to him, even when he was cribbing from Borges.</p>
<p>Lem has quite a bit to say about every ethical problem of note that science fiction can think of.</p>
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		<title>By: Qetesh the Abyssinian</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205246</link>
		<dc:creator>Qetesh the Abyssinian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205246</guid>
		<description>One other thing about all this whizz-bang tech stuff: I&#039;m a complete geek (and yes, socially retarded, as is compulsory for geeks), and I love the speculative nature of some scifi, both in terms of tech and sociopolitical structures.

But probably the main thing that&#039;s kept us from having all this marvellous doodaddery already is the fact that &lt;b&gt;stupendous sums of money are wasted on things designed to kill people&lt;/b&gt;. Really, vast amounts are squandered on military hardware, research into better ways to make human protoplasm suffer and die, and training young people to become sociopathic enough to try to kill each other.

If things were otherwise, we&#039;d probably already have those jetpacks and solar power, we&#039;d have eliminated world hunger and created anti-gravity, and done all sorts of other groovy things. Except that the money (and hence research etc) has been squandered on death.

While I remember, I mentioned &lt;i&gt;Overdrawn at the Memory Bank&lt;/i&gt; in my previous comment: that story does great work in investigating the intersection between hard storage (memory), running instructions (programming/consciousness), and locus of control (programmer/human consciousness). Gives rise to all sorts of questions and heavy thinking time, which is my idea of a great story.

Another thing I&#039;ve noticed about science/speculative fiction is that the adventure stories and the harder tech stories are usually written by men, while the sociopolitical structure explorations are usually written by women. Has anyone else noticed this? I mean, C. J. Cherryh&#039;s done some marvellous series about different sociopolitical structures, headlined by the magnificent &lt;i&gt;Downbelow Station&lt;/i&gt;;Sherry S. Tepper&#039;s got those highly emotive social crisis books; Ursula Le Guin did some marvellous classics such as &lt;i&gt;The Dispossessed&lt;/i&gt;, and so on. I can&#039;t, off the top of my head, think of a male author who&#039;s done the same thing.

Oh, except that one whose name I can never remember, who wrote a book that I just loved to death, and now bloody well can&#039;t find, thanks for reminding me. Drat yet again.

Hurrah, my friend Instant Preview saved me from the dreaded Unclosed Italics Tag embarrassment! Twice!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other thing about all this whizz-bang tech stuff: I&#8217;m a complete geek (and yes, socially retarded, as is compulsory for geeks), and I love the speculative nature of some scifi, both in terms of tech and sociopolitical structures.</p>
<p>But probably the main thing that&#8217;s kept us from having all this marvellous doodaddery already is the fact that <b>stupendous sums of money are wasted on things designed to kill people</b>. Really, vast amounts are squandered on military hardware, research into better ways to make human protoplasm suffer and die, and training young people to become sociopathic enough to try to kill each other.</p>
<p>If things were otherwise, we&#8217;d probably already have those jetpacks and solar power, we&#8217;d have eliminated world hunger and created anti-gravity, and done all sorts of other groovy things. Except that the money (and hence research etc) has been squandered on death.</p>
<p>While I remember, I mentioned <i>Overdrawn at the Memory Bank</i> in my previous comment: that story does great work in investigating the intersection between hard storage (memory), running instructions (programming/consciousness), and locus of control (programmer/human consciousness). Gives rise to all sorts of questions and heavy thinking time, which is my idea of a great story.</p>
<p>Another thing I&#8217;ve noticed about science/speculative fiction is that the adventure stories and the harder tech stories are usually written by men, while the sociopolitical structure explorations are usually written by women. Has anyone else noticed this? I mean, C. J. Cherryh&#8217;s done some marvellous series about different sociopolitical structures, headlined by the magnificent <i>Downbelow Station</i>;Sherry S. Tepper&#8217;s got those highly emotive social crisis books; Ursula Le Guin did some marvellous classics such as <i>The Dispossessed</i>, and so on. I can&#8217;t, off the top of my head, think of a male author who&#8217;s done the same thing.</p>
<p>Oh, except that one whose name I can never remember, who wrote a book that I just loved to death, and now bloody well can&#8217;t find, thanks for reminding me. Drat yet again.</p>
<p>Hurrah, my friend Instant Preview saved me from the dreaded Unclosed Italics Tag embarrassment! Twice!</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205245</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205245</guid>
		<description>Brain download is actually the sub-text of &quot;Altered Carbon&quot; by Richard K Morgan.  In it, you can have your brain downloaded into a databank for storage (or prison terms) and then later uploaded into a new body (real or synthetic).  The whole concept is kind of weird, but hey, who am I to criticize fiction authors? ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brain download is actually the sub-text of &#8220;Altered Carbon&#8221; by Richard K Morgan.  In it, you can have your brain downloaded into a databank for storage (or prison terms) and then later uploaded into a new body (real or synthetic).  The whole concept is kind of weird, but hey, who am I to criticize fiction authors? ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205244</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205244</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read the particular Pohl that Booty mentions, but some of the other stuff involves just what&#039;s going on in that short film:  transporters are xeroxes, not transporters, and the copy that appears on the other end is a disposable version of you.  You walk out on your end, somebody gives you a cheque for donating a version of you, and your copy goes to work in the salt mines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read the particular Pohl that Booty mentions, but some of the other stuff involves just what&#8217;s going on in that short film:  transporters are xeroxes, not transporters, and the copy that appears on the other end is a disposable version of you.  You walk out on your end, somebody gives you a cheque for donating a version of you, and your copy goes to work in the salt mines.</p>
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		<title>By: F</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205242</link>
		<dc:creator>F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205242</guid>
		<description>Qetesh,

Yeah, and Cory Doctorow stole that idea for his awful novel &quot;Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom&quot;.  That book made me so mad I wanted to hunt him down and demand those 2 hours of my life back.  

Algis Budrys had the inverse idea in his book &quot;Rogue Moon&quot;.  There copies could be made, but the new copy was, of course, a different person as soon as the two copies started having different experiences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Qetesh,</p>
<p>Yeah, and Cory Doctorow stole that idea for his awful novel &#8220;Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom&#8221;.  That book made me so mad I wanted to hunt him down and demand those 2 hours of my life back.  </p>
<p>Algis Budrys had the inverse idea in his book &#8220;Rogue Moon&#8221;.  There copies could be made, but the new copy was, of course, a different person as soon as the two copies started having different experiences.</p>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205241</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205241</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nfb.ca/trouverunfilm/fichefilm.php?id=18169&amp;v=h&amp;lg=en&amp;exp=&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The link would have been smart to include.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.nfb.ca/trouverunfilm/fichefilm.php?id=18169&amp;v=h&amp;lg=en&amp;exp=" rel="nofollow">The link would have been smart to include.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205239</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205239</guid>
		<description>Regarding the death aspect...yeah of course you&#039;d die.  But if, say, I get cancer as family history dictates I should and there was some way to make a new me that thinks it&#039;s me...well that me would be mighty happy, while the suffering me is probably also pretty happy to take a morphine shot.

All that said, I think life extension and cures for cancer are going to be way closer than a back-up firewire drive for all my stupid ideas.

Incidentally, this is a great little film about duplication...sadly I think there&#039;s only a short clip of it available (I don&#039;t do that Real shit).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the death aspect&#8230;yeah of course you&#8217;d die.  But if, say, I get cancer as family history dictates I should and there was some way to make a new me that thinks it&#8217;s me&#8230;well that me would be mighty happy, while the suffering me is probably also pretty happy to take a morphine shot.</p>
<p>All that said, I think life extension and cures for cancer are going to be way closer than a back-up firewire drive for all my stupid ideas.</p>
<p>Incidentally, this is a great little film about duplication&#8230;sadly I think there&#8217;s only a short clip of it available (I don&#8217;t do that Real shit).</p>
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		<title>By: billy pilgrim</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205238</link>
		<dc:creator>billy pilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205238</guid>
		<description>Vonnegut wrote a short story that discussed replacement of bodily functions, to the extent of the old MST3K classic &quot;jan in the Pan&quot;  where a woman&#039;s head is attached to several rooms full of machines doing the work of the rest of her body.

Thge engineers in charge controlled the woman&#039;s sleeping, waking, and moods by altering the levels of chemicals in the system.  She even had arms, but the arms could not be positioned to commit suicide.

Which was all the woman wanted.

So is it still the same woman?  She no longer has free will, if she ever did.

(pass that doobie over here.  whose dorm room is this?)

Ya caught me mikey.  Quantum uncertainty occurs at the sub-atomic level, not the molecular.  Although no one round here thinks you&#039;re a hoodlum. 

But wouldn&#039;t the electronic transfer involved in neuron activity also be at the sub-atomic level, since we&#039;re talking about transfer of electrons?  Electrons are where the Heisenberg uncertainty principle comes in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vonnegut wrote a short story that discussed replacement of bodily functions, to the extent of the old MST3K classic &#8220;jan in the Pan&#8221;  where a woman&#8217;s head is attached to several rooms full of machines doing the work of the rest of her body.</p>
<p>Thge engineers in charge controlled the woman&#8217;s sleeping, waking, and moods by altering the levels of chemicals in the system.  She even had arms, but the arms could not be positioned to commit suicide.</p>
<p>Which was all the woman wanted.</p>
<p>So is it still the same woman?  She no longer has free will, if she ever did.</p>
<p>(pass that doobie over here.  whose dorm room is this?)</p>
<p>Ya caught me mikey.  Quantum uncertainty occurs at the sub-atomic level, not the molecular.  Although no one round here thinks you&#8217;re a hoodlum. </p>
<p>But wouldn&#8217;t the electronic transfer involved in neuron activity also be at the sub-atomic level, since we&#8217;re talking about transfer of electrons?  Electrons are where the Heisenberg uncertainty principle comes in.</p>
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		<title>By: F</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205237</link>
		<dc:creator>F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205237</guid>
		<description>mikey,

Not bad, but wrong.  The famous mathematician Roger Penrose has even postulated that quantum mechanical effects in the brain are the &quot;Ghost in the Machine&quot;, i.e. that these effects are the reason that artificial intelligence will never be achieved.  But neurons firing involve the movements of atoms from one place to another, and therefore, quantum mechanical effects can be significant.

The only way transhumanism will allow immortality is by gradual replacement of human parts with artificial ones, and we&#039;re a reallllly long way from that.  Copies are just copies, not continuations of your consciousness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mikey,</p>
<p>Not bad, but wrong.  The famous mathematician Roger Penrose has even postulated that quantum mechanical effects in the brain are the &#8220;Ghost in the Machine&#8221;, i.e. that these effects are the reason that artificial intelligence will never be achieved.  But neurons firing involve the movements of atoms from one place to another, and therefore, quantum mechanical effects can be significant.</p>
<p>The only way transhumanism will allow immortality is by gradual replacement of human parts with artificial ones, and we&#8217;re a reallllly long way from that.  Copies are just copies, not continuations of your consciousness.</p>
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		<title>By: Qetesh the Abyssinian</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html/comment-page-1#comment-205232</link>
		<dc:creator>Qetesh the Abyssinian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6102.html#comment-205232</guid>
		<description>Duros62, I salute you. It&#039;s a good thing my keyboard has a protective covering that magically repels fur and nasal-delivery-beverages, otherwise I&#039;d be coughing up a furball for another laptop right about now.

Viz the topic at hand: Professor Booty, I&#039;ve not read that particular Fred Pohl story, but I do have a more than nodding aquaintance with the works of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.varley.net/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;John Varley&lt;/a&gt;, and in particular his story called &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rambles.net/varley_reader04.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Phantom of Kansas&lt;/a&gt;. That one posits memory recording technology which allows you to record your &#039;self&#039; up to the current time.

And of course the issue with that is that as the heroine gets killed each time, each incarnation really truly dies, in the sense that (a) that body dies, and (b) the memories between the last recording and the death aren&#039;t recorded. It&#039;s a fascinating story, for a bunch of reasons, as are several of his other short stories.

His bestest everest short story, &lt;i&gt;Air Raid&lt;/i&gt;, was sharp like a razor blade, the sort of story that haunts your thoughts for months afterwards. Years, indeed. Alas, the story was extended into a novel, &lt;i&gt;Millenium&lt;/i&gt;, which was merely good, and subseqently made as a movie, which was appalling in almost every way.

I&#039;m excited, however, to have just discovered that someone made a movie of one of his lighter stories, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089759/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Overdrawn at the Memory Bank&lt;/a&gt;, starring the inestimable Raul Julia. Now I&#039;m going to have to spend lots of time trying to track that down, drat drat drat...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duros62, I salute you. It&#8217;s a good thing my keyboard has a protective covering that magically repels fur and nasal-delivery-beverages, otherwise I&#8217;d be coughing up a furball for another laptop right about now.</p>
<p>Viz the topic at hand: Professor Booty, I&#8217;ve not read that particular Fred Pohl story, but I do have a more than nodding aquaintance with the works of <a href="http://www.varley.net/" rel="nofollow">John Varley</a>, and in particular his story called <a href="http://www.rambles.net/varley_reader04.html" rel="nofollow">The Phantom of Kansas</a>. That one posits memory recording technology which allows you to record your &#8217;self&#8217; up to the current time.</p>
<p>And of course the issue with that is that as the heroine gets killed each time, each incarnation really truly dies, in the sense that (a) that body dies, and (b) the memories between the last recording and the death aren&#8217;t recorded. It&#8217;s a fascinating story, for a bunch of reasons, as are several of his other short stories.</p>
<p>His bestest everest short story, <i>Air Raid</i>, was sharp like a razor blade, the sort of story that haunts your thoughts for months afterwards. Years, indeed. Alas, the story was extended into a novel, <i>Millenium</i>, which was merely good, and subseqently made as a movie, which was appalling in almost every way.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m excited, however, to have just discovered that someone made a movie of one of his lighter stories, <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089759/" rel="nofollow">Overdrawn at the Memory Bank</a>, starring the inestimable Raul Julia. Now I&#8217;m going to have to spend lots of time trying to track that down, drat drat drat&#8230;</p>
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