1
Dialing The Frenchy On the Left-Hand Side
“Brrring! Brrring!”
S,N!: Hello? We’re looking for the Worst. Perfessor. EVAR!!
WPE: ‘Allo? Oh, sorry. He doezhn’t live here anymore!
S,N!: Damn. Well, see, we need an umpire over at this thread, which is, like, totally out of control now.
WPE: [Looking] Merde! Er, I mean, zhat isz too bad, no? But zee Professor, he is not here. He isz gone.
S,N!: [Slumps] But we really need him to explain some things to us. Not that we’re assholes — we already knew that — but that there is indeed a distinction between civility and decency, is there not? Wasn’t it a Frenchman who said all humor is based on cruelty? But then again isn’t the cruelty in humor a matter of incivility as opposed to indecency? Doesn’t it matter to whom, and why, the punchline is directed? Finally, why on fucking earth do some people feel that ‘telling’ two — TWO! — fat jokes, evar, is, in moral egregiousness, similar, comparable to, or even worse than the advocation of genocidal policies and torture? Whyyyyyyyy?!?! We are at our wit’s end about this. Comment?
WPE: [????]
Gavin adds: I just rescued a bunch of comments from Ye Olde Filtre of Spamme. How did that happen? I don’t know! I’ll check it periodically to make sure nothing languishes in there.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:19
I’ll tell you why. Because (it seems many of) your readers happen to be fat and they are very sensitive about it. It’s PERSONAL, man. Dropping bombs on tens of thousands of people halfway across the world is impersonal.
And you thought you were ahead with the celery.
Incontinentia Buttocks said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:28
HTML et al.:
It’s touching that you’re responding to people justifiably taking offense at fat jokes. You’ve apologized. Now it would probably not be a good idea to do it again.
However, y’all can’t expect everyone to accept your apology. Not when your past posts continue to provide an opportunity for others to feel morally superior to you.
So rather than calling in the dangeral analysis, how’s about you just move on and provide us with a bit more of teh (fat-joke-free) funny?
And while you’re at it how about a PREVIEW BUTTON?
Marita said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:32
I ATE THE PREVIEW BUTTON!
[burp]
ilyka said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:32
[sigh] Because they don’t:
Call me an obsessive nerd, because I totally am, but I read hell out of that thread, and Clarke’s the only commenter who even came close to implying any comparison, and he’s many times since bent over backwards to explain that actually, no; no one is comparing you to, or equating you with, a genocidal wingnut. Just as I’ve tried to explain that, and most of the commenters at Feministe have tried to explain that, and, guh! I’m out of tricks here.
At this point, the originally-offended are doing more handholding and there-there-ing of your feelings than anyone, fat or otherwise, has asked you to do for them. I mean, did I miss the petition to blacklist Sadly, No! or label it Most Insensitive Blog Evar? The picket lines, the protestors bearing “Down w/HTML” and “Fatly, No!” placards? I slept through all that, really?
Prediction: He backs up Clarke. But we’ll see, I guess.
JackGoff said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:33
Baudelaire also called all of his readers hypocrites. Good choice, I guess, for the apologetics, as it were.
Teh Preview Button said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:34
And while you’re at it how about a PREVIEW BUTTON?
Hey don’t bring me into this!
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:37
Um, don’t they see something funny in an unenlisted cheeto-gorger who would never pass the physical for the army - not that he would ever want to - cheerleading torture and genocide? There’s definitely something ridicule-worthy in that. These assholes deserve it all. Really, they more than deserve it.
Marked Hoosier said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:37
Please Mom and Dad! Don’t fight!!!
Marked Hoosier said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:40
I had a comment marked spam…
I am sad now.
JackGoff said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:43
For real, lesley, I mean fat people as people? That’s just messed up! Why argue against his position when you can argue against teh lipids?! Crazy talk!
High five, everyone!
JackGoff said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:46
For real, Lesley. I mean, why worry about other fat people who agree with you who might be offended by the joke when teh lipids are so easy to mock?! Crazy talk! The jokes write themselves, guys! It was a slow day! Whatever the reason, remember how everything else is Hitler compared to us? Yeah, let’s all remember that and never forget it.
the_millionaire_lebowski said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:47
The clear implication is that being fat–rather than any of the truly noisome qualities embodied by ab Hugh–is disgusting.
That’s funny. I see to remember ab Hugh being ridiculed for his ridiculous assertions.
HTML Mencken said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:48
all me an obsessive nerd, because I totally am, but I read hell out of that thread, and Clarke’s the only commenter who even came close to implying any comparison, and he’s many times since bent over backwards to explain that actually, no; no one is comparing you to, or equating you with, a genocidal wingnut. Just as I’ve tried to explain that, and most of the commenters at Feministe have tried to explain that, and, guh! I’m out of tricks here.
GAAAAAAH! But that’s what the whole fucking thing was about! Ampersand did exactly that and admitted he was wrong for it. *That’s* all I was ever upset about, until piny tried to ignore my point and everyone there piled on.
Over and over I’ve said: ‘If you object to fat jokes, I have no problem with that’. It’s *how* you argue it. Piny didn’t do it right. Clarke did and didn’t do it right.
Spokane Moderate said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:49
And you thought you were ahead with the celery.
Oh, no. They were ahead with lettuce; they were stalking us with the celery.
kingubu said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:53
Evidently, its time for the adults to intervene.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:54
Perhaps in the future you could ridicule fatheads instead of fat bodies. No one will complain about that.
owlbear1 said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:54
haha
Marita said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:57
I think kingubu just won the thread.
Gavin M. said,
March 1, 2007 at 6:59
Oh, no. They were ahead with lettuce; they were stalking us with the celery.
Uh, “Woot!”
JackGoff said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:01
Sorry for the multiple posts. I figured that Akismet would let up…
Marita said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:03
Uh, “Woot!�
No! Don’t encourage the vegetable puns! I’m rutabaga’n you to stop!
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:03
can we embed youtube movies in sadlyno comment threads now or did kingubu have help?
Gavin M. said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:04
No! Don’t encourage the vegetable puns! I’m rutabaga’n you to stop!
Um, baby, that’s how I escarole.
Marita said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:08
can we embed youtube movies in sadlyno comment threads now or did kingubu have help?
Ummm… we’ll see…
kingubu said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:10
can we embed youtube movies in sadlyno comment threads now or did kingubu have help?
Arcane wisdom possessed only by Teh Fatties. We have a handshake, too. And fezzes! See what you’re missing?
[slips Gavin a $20 under the blogroll]
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:11
anyone remember an old comedy sketch about the fruit and vegetable races?
Marita said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:13
Rock! I’m an honorary Fatty! Do I get a fez?
VA said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:14
I think it was an Austrian who said all zat stuff about ze humor.
Marked Hoosier said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:14
If you carrot all for me, you will stop the puns! :)
Anon said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:16
Feministe’s logo offends men, who like me, were once boys who were terrorized by girls brandishing pump-action shotguns.
And every time I stumble across Pandagon’s logo, I’m reminded that I’m an overweight, slovenly alcoholic. Why must these feminists be so insensitive? Don’t they realize that they insult and ultimately drive away many fellow progressives who have suffered terror at the hands of loaded lasses and drown their residual fears in cheap canned beer?
FlipYrWhig said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:18
I’m so offended, I think HTML should walk to the edge of a cliff, endive.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:19
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:20
I’m all out of twenties and on a shit list, so no embedding for me :(
Gavin M. said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:23
I’m so offended, I think HTML should walk to the edge of a cliff, endive.
So you turnip your nose at him?
PZ1 said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:29
Ok. When people poke fun, whisper, giggle and tell fat jokes because I have a huge, fat neck and a lump on my upper back and a gut thanks to lipodystrophy from my HAART regimen, it’s not comparable to genocide or physical torture. That’s not an argument I’ve really seen in any of this.
But the punchline for fat jokes doesn’t stop with just the person it’s directed at. Because it’s Ok to ridicule people simply because they’re fat it never ends. Spend a few years wondering daily if it’s worth keeping up with HAART and living another ten or twenty years just to get stares and laughs and whispers most every time you leave the house. Do that then tell me how it’s not painful for someone to take shots at you simply because of the way you look and not because of the way you’ve mistreated them or others or advocate shitty politics. Sure, no one’s locking me up and torturing me. I’m the one locking myself away because, you know, fat people…they’re fuckin’ walking comedy…fair game…don’t stop and wonder why…everyone jokes about big fatasses.
Joe said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:30
Does being a progressive mean we have to accept that “healthy at any weight” stuff? Because I am not up for that.
JackGoff said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:31
It’s more about being a rhubarb…
Marita said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:33
[hugs PZ1]
Gavin M. said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:35
PZ1, lipodystrophy is not in any way equivalent to being a bellicose warmonger who accuses others of cowardice for not ‘having a military background,’ even though he wouldn’t, himself, be admitted to boot camp.
It’s not the same, and no jokes here are ever about you, ok?
JK47 said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:38
OK, now this is getting ridiculous. It was a goddamn photoshop joke, and a funny photoshop joke at that. This is a comedy web site where people come to hate on wingnuts. This site is not about taking the high road or even about building some sort of progressive majority. This is a place where we all come to feel better through laughter, and seeing Daffyd Ab Hugh with a six-foot Italian sub photoshopped in his outstretched hands made me feel better for a few seconds. Don’t take that away from me.
There are plenty of other nice blogs out there who will never make fat jokes and will provide nice, bland, politically correct progressive Kumbaya hippie shit for those who were so horrified by a Photoshop sandwich. I personally like it when Sadly, No is down and dirty.
ilyka said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:39
I agree with that, and I apologize for confusing you with Sadly, No! Investor Services (Gavin? Was that you?), which I think I did early on (unless you were SNIS, in which case . . . hmm). Anyway, SNIS was certainly going other places with the whole thing besides “Ampersand’s blogroll policy is stupid,” places like “You’re all a bunch of silly nitwits to get upset about this,” which you can bet I’ll remember the next time anyone here devotes so much as a pixel to shooting fish in a barrel–I mean, fisking Pastor Swank columns.
That’s because that’s all it was ever about for you, and given that, I can understand why you’d be pissed off. Doesn’t mean there wasn’t more going on for piny, who was trying to look at the [cough] larger issue, because that’s what Feministe does. They cover stuff that doesn’t make it here and vice versa. I like both blogs; I just don’t like being painted a hypersensitive, CNN-deprived, serious-perspective-lacking, fat bitch for liking both blogs (which I don’t think you’ve personally done, but see above about SNIS).
Excerpted comments from others here make up a good deal of piny’s post, actually, so I don’t find it contradictory to agree both with you that Amp was wrongheaded, and with piny that there sure was a lot of fat-bashing going on at Sadly, No! yesterday (gracias a Lesley particularmente). Fair enough?
FlipYrWhig said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:40
I was just reading that thread at Feministe, and, wow, the participants in that dustuparsnippy. Effenn-’ell.
J— said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:42
Next time don’t photoshop. Call for captions.
J— said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:43
Next time don’t photoshop. Call for captions.
Marita said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:44
Hrmph. Your spam filter keeps telling me something about how I’m ham. Gavin, HTML, are you trying to tell me something?
HTML Mencken said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:48
Doesn’t mean there wasn’t more going on for piny, who was trying to look at the [cough] larger issue, because that’s what Feministe does.
Then he should have honestly accounted for the Ampersand issue, instead of doing what he did, which was use it for an excuse to complain about the original photoshop — and as for that, well, it is my opinion that the original photoshop is not an egregious moral crime. I disagree with those who think it is. But again, the point was Ampersand, who implied it was such a crime that it was beneath Trevino and Volokh’s collected depravities. One I agree to disagree about, the other I will get *angry* about. And when I have to deal with a clusterfuck argument of both kinds, I get really exasperated.
a different brad said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:48
Ehhh.
Not SN!’s finest moment.
Reminds me of the great cunt debate. Ahh, it was fun being called a misogynist, and being told I should lie to women to get laid by someone who was telling me I don’t respect women. Especially considering the who’s who of it all. AA and people who’d been accusing me of being her sockpuppet both tellin me the same. Anyway
The fat joke didn’t deserve this much attention, or any outrage, but, to be fair, it wasn’t that funny.
Gavin M. said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:51
I was just reading that thread at Feministe, and, wow, the participants in that dustuparsnippy. Effenn-’ell.
Jicama scared!
Oregano’ll take another look…
Marked Hoosier said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:52
I like both blogs… I wish they would make up.
If I were a smarter man, I could have said that with a vegetable pun. :/
the_millionaire_lebowski said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:56
Reminds me of the great cunt debate.
Ha! I remember something like that.
Gavin M. said,
March 1, 2007 at 7:59
and as for that, well, it is my opinion that the original photoshop is not an egregious moral crime.
I shouldn’t say this, but there are, uh, lots of draft P-shop pictures that we don’t use, that are even tastelesser.
I mean, if we’re being accused of having no sensitivity, there’s certainly a treasured distance before rock-bottom.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:07
To be fair the fattening up of the celery makes daffyd appear slimmer. But where’s the gratitude!
I’m still not apologizing for my judgements of Obese America. Someday a pin’s going to pop the balloon. Or a mint.
kingubu said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:08
For god’s sake, somebody make a poop joke.
Marita said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:11
I like both blogs… I wish they would make up.
Are you asking for peas and hominy among the blogs?
Gavin M. said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:13
I made some peas for dinner. They had the delicious taste of pea-ness.
Charles said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:14
Won’t somebody please think of the skinny people for once? They *are* the minority, after all, and as such are entitled to take a certain amount of rhetorical liberty with their weighty oppressors. Who’s being judged unfairly here? I’ll tell you who, it’s those people who would dare to flaunt their healthy lifestyle choices in the face of overwhelming societal pressure to amass girth.
Joe said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:15
I just want to go on record saying I love this site exactly the way it is now and it’d be a shame if you had to start censoring yourselves.
wonderzombie said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:16
Poop: it’s what’s for dinner.
ilyka said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:19
If you’ve never put “Kiss the AIDS cook” onto an apron worn by Fred Savage, you have a long way to fall yet.
Gavin M. said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:21
I just want to go on record saying I love this site exactly the way it is now and it’d be a shame if you had to start censoring yourselves.
I am so tempted to embed some stuff from the draft Photoshop folder.
No, the real danger is that we’ll do something titanically awful one of these days, and really be sorry about it…
a different brad said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:24
Gavin has a good point in that thread, tho.
Penis jokes?
Just fine. If a guy gets offended, well, let’s be racist and say he’s gotta be white, right?
Fat jokes?
Or use of the word cunt?
Over the limit.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:26
I have to watch what I say about the precious flab or risk being shunned. Oh wait, I am being shunned and made to feel ashamed for saying excess consumption of mass produced fatty crud (that causes cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and likely Alzheimers) is not only dumb but almost entirely the responsibility of the consumer. Just wait til the overindulged SUV-driving masses have to give up their precious cars and other toys for the good of the planet and then you’ll really hear some bitching.
a different brad said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:31
Jesus.
Maybe you’re being an insensitive asshole, Lesley?
You are very protective of your sensibilities, and give people lots of shit if they say something that offends you, but arrogantly dismiss any concerns you don’t share.
You’re gonna get shit for that, and you deserve it.
Marked Hoosier said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:35
Are you asking for peas and hominy among the blogs?
Marita sooo wins this round! :)
wonderzombie said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:36
There, I contributed something meaningful to that thread. Although, upon reflection, it looks like I botched a sentence. *dies*
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:36
This is why the world despises America. You’re completely fucking DAFT.
Gavin M. said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:39
This is why the world despises America. You’re completely fucking DAFT.
This might be the wrong time to mention that this is a Canadian blog.
I’m having one of those can’t-win days.
elendil said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:42
After much consideration, I’ve decided that feministe are right. Snark should target the meme itself, not its corpulent host. So, are you going to photoshop of Dafydd with that shit-smeared broom handle now? I’m sure everyone will get some giggles out of that.
(I swear I was happy and normal once… really I was)
Joe said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:45
How do people seriously equate weight with sexual orientation or race anyway? I’m not saying it’s ok to make fun of fat people, but a fat joke is not nearly on the same level as a racist or homophobic joke.
a different brad said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:46
Wait.
Presuming that was in some part a response to me,
the world despises America because we go around asking people to be considerate of the sensibilities of others?
Somehow, I don’t think that’s it…
elendil said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:46
Just wait til the overindulged SUV-driving masses have to give up their precious cars and other toys for the good of the planet and then you’ll really hear some bitching
If ya’ll knew what was good for you, you’d do it voluntarily. I want to get a shirt that says: “roll over… roll over… good SUV!” Heartless, I know, but you gotta warn people somehow.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:47
Uh, I was reacting to adifferentbrad and flew off the handle - sick of that PC bullshit.
Most of your readers are Americans, no?
Djur said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:47
This is why the world despises America. You’re completely fucking DAFT.
Ha! It’s actually mal de mer!
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:48
the world despises America because we go around asking people to be considerate of the sensibilities of others?
The nation that elected Bush and Cheney… come again?
a different brad said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:51
We did once, and it’s a terrible stain on our nation’s history. But even in 04, BushCo. got what, 53 million votes out of 300 million people in the nation?
And had to use voter fraud in Ohio, at least, to do it?
And considering all the good people here who are American, you’re still gonna say that?
HTML Mencken said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:52
I feel I should paste mine and Ilyka’s exchange over there where pliny has cranked up the mendacious whining. But nah.. why bother.
The Highest Order said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:52
Ok. When people poke fun, whisper, giggle and tell fat jokes because I have a huge, fat neck and a lump on my upper back and a gut thanks to lipodystrophy from my HAART regimen, it’s not comparable to genocide or physical torture. That’s not an argument I’ve really seen in any of this.
Well yeah. I too have noticed that argument not being made.
Herr Doktor Bimler said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:52
I made some peas for dinner
All I am saying,
Is give peas a chance.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:53
Bring on all your defenses of America the Civilizer. I’m dying to hear this.
a different brad said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:53
And a stain on world history, and the lives of countless.. millions, at least, by now, of course.
a different brad said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:55
wtf?
Where did that come from?
I…. huh?
HTML Mencken said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:55
I too have noticed that argument not being made.
Wow, really? On that last thread you commented on? In the post itself? On — hint, hint — Ampersand’s site?
Fucking hell.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:59
this little shred of elitism, adifferentbrad
he world despises America because we go around asking people to be considerate of the sensibilities of others?
We, America, the example to the rest of the world. Ugh.
Djur said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:01
Where did that come from?
I…. huh?
No, really, I’m pretty sure this is mal de mer. Nearly the same style. I mean, people call me anti-American all the time, because I think that a state that sells arms, funds genocide, murders natives, etc. is worthy of criticism even though I live in it.
Some people, though, like mal de mer/Lesley here, are literally anti-American, in that they consider Americans as individuals to universally be scum worthy of derision. That is, they’re anti-American in the same way Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler is anti-Iranian.
The Highest Order said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:01
HTML Mencken said,
March 1, 2007 at 8:55
I too have noticed that argument not being made.
Wow, really? On that last thread you commented on? In the post itself? On — hint, hint — Ampersand’s site?
Fucking hell.
Wha? Are you suggesting that I did not argue that’s not an argument I’ve really seen in any of this?
Herr Doktor Bimler said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:01
I was going to seethe a kid in its mother’s milk for dinner, but now I’m worrying about the calories. AND the glycemic index.
Djur said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:02
Lesley, you enormous idiot, you’re leaving out the key part of the exchange.
You: This is why the world despises America. You’re completely fucking DAFT.
brad: Presuming that was in some part a response to me,
the world despises America because we go around asking people to be considerate of the sensibilities of others?
Somehow, I don’t think that’s it…
Now put your goddamn cock away and go find somewhere else to piss.
billy pilgrim said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:03
Well, now look.
If fat jokes are off limits, the puns need to be off limits too.
I mean, let’s be civilized here.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:05
Many Americans are completely identified with America. I have trouble liking such people, yes. Nowhere did I say I despised Americans. But see, even though I said “America” you’re taking offense because you are an American.
Clif said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:07
Okay, so if we can’t make jokes about whether Daffy ab Hooey is fat, can we still say that he looks ridiculous in stained gray sweatpants? I mean its not like he was forced to wear them by genetics or anything.
Another question: does this also mean that we can’t accuse quintuple-x sized clerics like Falwell of hypocrisy when they spout of Bible verses condemning gays and what not but conveniently forget all the biblical stuff about gluttony?
Just wondering.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:08
bjur, that’s because adifferentbrad identified himself as “we, America.” I was poking fun at his continental ass.
Marked Hoosier said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:08
I mean, let’s be civilized here.
Fuck do we have to?
elendil said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:10
Clif: No, because gluttony’s not an abomination. Unless you got that way through an exclusive diet of shellfish and goats boiled in their mother’s milk. In which case, yes.
a different brad said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:11
Thank you, Djur. To be clear for Lesley’s sake, I was not saying Americans go around being nice. I was saying quite the opposite.
Now, to try and lighten this shit up…
A one… two– A one… two… three… four…
Half a bee, philosophically,
Must, ipso facto, half not be.
But half the bee has got to be
Vis a vis, its entity. D’you see?
But can a bee be said to be
Or not to be an entire bee
When half the bee is not a bee
Due to some ancient injury?
Singing…
La dee dee, one two three,
Eric the half a bee.
A B C D E F G,
Eric the half a bee.
Is this wretched demi-bee,
Half-asleep upon my knee,
Some freak from a menagerie?
No! It’s Eric the half a bee!
Fiddle de dum, Fiddle de dee,
Eric the half a bee.
Ho ho ho, tee hee hee,
Eric the half a bee.
I love this hive, employee-ee,
Bisected accidentally,
One summer afternoon by me,
I love him carnally.
He loves him carnally,
Semi-carnally.
The end.
Cyril Connelly?
No; semi-carnally!
Oh.
Cyril Connelly.
[whistling]
HTML Mencken said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:17
Clif — What, are you insane? Of course that’s off limits! Why, for even thinking about such a thing, you’re acting just as bad as a wingnut. I hope you die and burn in hell, fat-hater!
Gavin M. said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:24
Clif — What, are you insane? Of course that’s off limits! Why, for even thinking about such a thing, you’re acting just as bad as a wingnut. I hope you die and burn in hell, fat-hater!
Mencken, I’m not saying you’re worse than an eliminationist wingnut, I’m saying you’re as bad as one.
Clif-hater! Hater of Clif!
Danny Guam said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:25
Jeezis, I got a big ole beer gut and I thought the sandwich was mildly funny. What isn’t funny is the asshole making some of the comments that they are quoting over there posted by some asshole last night. Being a mean, uncompassionate person is bad. I don’t see that here on the part of HTML.
He said he was sorry. Did anyone ever say their making fun of Michael Moore or Al Gore was wrong and they were sorry. NO. Lighten the fuck up.
I don’t personally go in for all the cunts and cocksuckers I see dropped all the time other places but I don’t start denouncing the hosts of the blogs either.
These wingnut bastarts are the problem. Not Sadly,NO.. FuckFuck Fuckl;.;/
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:28
I’m still not clear on the golden rule. Under what conditions is it ok to include celery or horking subs in a portrait? (let’s face it, you really don’t have to use photoshop with most of ‘em)
celticgirl said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:29
Well, after being away for a few hours I see we’ve been reduced to eating our own here. WTF is wrong with you people - I thought we were on the “same” side? This is why the Celts were conquered - too busy squabbling over tribal crap and then rolled over by the Romans. There are WAY more important things we could be talkng about and too many wingnuts out there to make fun of. For fuck’s sake - can we please move on?
I should have stopped this care a long time ago and sent you all to bed without your dinner!
celticgirl said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:31
‘car’ - PREVIEW BUTTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dafydd ab Hugh said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:38
This is why the Celts were conquered - too busy squabbling over tribal crap and then rolled over by the Romans.
Muahaha! But we will rise again.
(Er, don’t tell anyone I’m actually Jewish, ok?)
billy pilgrim said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:41
Lesley, you were too busy talking about fat people in the other thread, when Art Frahm kept coming up.
If you had followed the links, you would have found the answer to at least one of your questions:
Celery may, indeed MUST, be used in any picture that shows a woman with her underpants falling down around her ankles.
Unfortunately, the links take you to Lileks, so I understand if you don’t follow them.
marc page said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:52
HTML Mencken:
I like your style.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 9:54
I took a look at the Feministe post and couldn’t find a single quote of mine (for all the blame I received today and yesterday for my judgements about the fast food nation). If there is one there, I couldn’t find it. Maybe it’s in the comment section.
Maybe I am an insensitive shithead and blind as a bat for not perceiving my comments the way you all seem to be perceiving them. I’m truly sorry if I deeply offended anyone, but I since I still can’t see how I could have, that doesn’t mean squat does it? I’m not going to apologize for thinking ill of poor eating habits. To do so would make me a complete fool.
If you have a chance, do read Fast Food Nation (it addresses much more than the fast food industry) and Diet for a New America (by the guy who rejected his Baskin-Robbins inheritance) and have a peek at madcowboy.com (the cattle farmer who rejected modern farming practices). I hope you won’t take what they say personally, although they hate what excess fat does to people, too. Those authors, among others, helped me to take charge of my own health, and I’ll be eternally grateful for it.
Djur said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:00
Yes, yes. You just care about us poor little slobs. How white of you.
Maybe the part where you declared fatness to be objectively unattractive managed to irritate people just a bit. And how you responded to each and every critic by accusing them of being fat and being embarrassed about it, and furthermore for suggesting that they’re just too damn stupid to absorb the constant message of “LOSE SOME WEIGHT, FATTY” that forms a cornerstone of our society. Perhaps there’s also the parts in which you categorically denied that there is any biological cause for overweight other than just shoveling cupcakes down like so many fat jizzy dicks.
Yeah, I think that may be a small part of it.
I’d like to also take this time to say that I didn’t enter this discussion for any reason related to the sandwich incident. Hell, I thought it was funny enough, and the celery was even better. Retardo Mencken’s point about Amp’s blogroll was pretty good, too.
Kathleen said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:03
Sadly No is right and Feministe is wrong. To sum up.
Djur said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:06
No, Kathleen. Honestly, it’s less an issue of the original criticism, which was justifiably mild, than of the enormous shitfit that’s arisen from it. Both sides have said or suggested significantly worse things in this argument than the actual original issue.
celticgirl said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:16
Lesley, I’m letting you off easy - me: vegetarian (no, I don’t overindluge on carbs), overweight, formerly anorexic, chronic long term health/immune system problems, former fitness trainer (AFTER I became overweght mind, I just traded fat for muscle but never lost any substantial weight), genetic predisposition to Type II Diabetes, and (trump card) turmor on my pituitary gland which seems to play hell with my metabolism.
But please, do generalize about all overweight people.
Sorry but it’s hard not to be offended by your comments.
Now, can we all get back to bashing the wingnuts?
a different brad said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:24
Oy.
Y’know, I’d almost assume everyone here has read Fast Food Nation, instead of recommending it. I mean, we’re a fairly literate crowd, and it’s pretty damn far from an obscure title.
I read it, and I don’t remember the author getting angry at the people who didn’t know how to get out of the processed crap/high fructose corn syrup chainlock.
I also remember him saying he still, albeit very rarely, goes to a fast food place now and then.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:26
celticgirl, you’re kidding me, right? You’ve listed a whole lot of conditions that relate to behaviours, including type two D.
I’m now at the point where I’m wondering which purgatory would be worse: Gitmo or a liberal PC reeducation camp.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:27
adifferentbrad. I’m not “angry” at obese people.
marc page said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:29
Lesley:
For the little it may be worth, I understood your point.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:30
Suggesting a book makes me an elitist. Sorry, but you folks take the cake on elitism. oops, I said cake. how insensitive of me.
a different brad said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:33
Alright, fair’s fair, I shouldn’t say you are. You just think “tough love” is the answer in all cases, feelings be damned. It’s nice you conquered your midlfe extra 15 pounds, but that doesn’t mean you’ve beeeeeeeeeeeen there, man. I was in Nam, I saw people MELT, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.
*apologies to mikey*
celticgirl said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:39
I’m sorry, a tbrain umor is a behavior? Genetic predisposition to an illness is a behavior? A chronic illness is a behavior? EVen my doctors are more generous than you are. What about my genetically deaf daughter - is that her choice? What about my son who has autism? His choice? No, I’m afraid we’re talking bad gene pool here. Some people just don’t get it I guess.
I’m speechless.
gluttony said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:40
I seem to recall a time, like, almost four months ago, when piny, zuzu, and co were down with the cruel photoshopping…
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:41
The comments on the feministe thread are enough to give any reasonable person a migraine. I cannot believe any regular reader of SadlyNo (like Chris Clarke, to name one) believes for a second its authors are bullying insensitive creeps on a par with Malkin and Coulter, to name two extremely creepy wingnuts. Even when the SN humour is juvenile, it’s right up there with Python and bloody brilliant. I’m grateful it’s free.
What I find here helps me cope with the madness of King George and his gluttonous corporate pals and the very real cruelty they inflict on a daily basis.
Sometimes I can’t even laugh at the funnies here I get so depressed and upset thinking about what’s going on. I hope they don’t change.
The Highest Order said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:42
Djur said
Yes, yes. You just care about us poor little slobs. How white of you.
Maybe the part where you declared fatness to be objectively unattractive managed to irritate people just a bit. And how you responded to each and every critic by accusing them of being fat and being embarrassed about it,
In all fairness to Lesley, pretty sure she was responsible for the ‘unattractive’ bit and i was the one suggesting embarassment. Seriously, if youre not embarrased by your weight then why argue?
and furthermore for suggesting that they’re just too damn stupid to absorb the constant message of “LOSE SOME WEIGHT, FATTY� that forms a cornerstone of our society.
See again, in all fairness, you are over-reacting. Pretty sure she was saying GAIN WEIGHT FATTY was the cornerstone of american society.
Perhaps there’s also the parts in which you categorically denied that there is any biological cause for overweight other than just shoveling cupcakes down like so many fat jizzy dicks.
Again, the ‘biological cause for overweight’ only really works if you are, say, Samoan. It really doesn’t apply for the average American.
But to get back on track, has anyone else noticed that Scientologists and Mormons and SDAs are rarely overweight while Presbyterians and Methodists are invariably obese? Is there a correlation between newer religions and older visa vee fatness?
ilyka said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:43
Oh, not in all cases–just in the cases she doesn’t personally struggle with. I’m sure if Darleen had a thyroid problem or a debilitating joint disorder, we’d be hearing a different tune from her about this.
Did I just call her Darleen? Huh. Weird! It’s as though I were confusing her with that one woman who hangs out PW, encouraging guys in holes to keep right on digging and reminding them that she, at least, will always love them–that their bravery in the face of emasculating political correctness only fans the flames of her ardor.
I don’t know why that came to mind all of a sudden.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:46
celtic girl, in the future I’m not going to bother responding because you can’t be bothered to read my responses to you. Anorexia is very much behavioural. Type Two Diabetes is both brought on and controlled by behaviour. Sorry I didn’t spell it out for you. I don’t know what causes brain tumours. But I do know some cancers develop as a result of behaviours. Look, my mom died from cancer and hers was all caused by behaviour. I love her, ok? Very much. It was still caused by behaviour. She knew it. Her doctors warned her. This fact didn’t (and doesn’t) detract from my love and compassion for her.
I’m sorry you’re suffering.
Kathleen said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:50
Djur said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:06
No, Kathleen. Honestly, it’s less an issue of the original criticism, which was justifiably mild, than of the enormous shitfit that’s arisen from it. Both sides have said or suggested significantly worse things in this argument than the actual original issue.
I appreciate the effort to be nuanced, but I actually spent waaaay too much time wading through all sets of comments, and I am going to have to stick with my summation. Sadly No is right and Feministe is wrong.
Djur said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:55
“Seriously, if youre not embarrased by your weight then why argue?”
Actually, I’d imagine that people who are embarrassed by their weight would be less likely to argue. Really, it shouldn’t take you long to figure out why someone might be compelled to respond to insults. You’re a smart boy.
ilyka: Right on. Apparently explaining to someone that one finds it insulting to be called objectively unattractive, lazy, ignorant, etc. based on a physical trait is on par with putting men in tiny cages for the crime of being swarthy Mooselmen.
marc page said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:55
Ah, Darleeen … a much more interesteing ‘case study’ …
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:56
I’m sure if Darleen had a thyroid problem or a debilitating joint disorder, we’d be hearing a different tune from her about this.
If you meant me, in fact I do have mild hypothyroidism (like many other women) and arthritis in my cervical spine (due to a couple of car accidents and a fall down some stairs). The hypothyroidism is aggravated by excessive consumption of sugar and I find I can control it. I was told that the pain of arthritis is mostly caused by inflammation and scar tissue which I’m seeing someone to control. It’s helping.
So you want to try something else?
HTML Mencken said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:58
Ok, Ilyka, that’s too fucking much.
I’m not saying I agree with everything Lesley says, but she expressly related her own dietary issues as well as her mother’s cancer. So the ‘easy for her to say’ card doesn’t work. Try another. And shitcan the Darleen & PW references like, now.
The Highest Order said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:00
celticgirl said,
I’m sorry, a tbrain umor is a behavior? Genetic predisposition to an illness is a behavior? A chronic illness is a behavior? EVen my doctors are more generous than you are. What about my genetically deaf daughter - is that her choice? What about my son who has autism? His choice? No, I’m afraid we’re talking bad gene pool here. Some people just don’t get it I guess.
I’m speechless.
Now youve gone too far. My second cousin is speechless and i absolutely wont hear any criticism of him. You fuckers, he cant even speak! Do you know how this hurts me? Do you have any understanding of how his speechlessness must impact me? And did I mention that I have a sore foot? I have to walk to the subway station every day and people look at me funny because i limp. I’m a victim. Oh and I know some people who have a retard son. Whatever you do, dont make fun of Downs Syndrome kids cuz they might be reading this blog.
Jeez, [HTML Menken's real name] nice work with the fat joke.
celticgirl said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:02
Lesley, I’m glad you refuse to respond to me because I suppose to engage with me on the NON BEHAVIORAL issues would weaken your argument. Maybe-just maybe-not everybody brings cancer or brain tumors on themselves (hey, there’s a novel thought!) As ilyka said, if you were dealing with this first hand you would STFU-self rightousness isn’t a pretty thing. And BTW, I’m not suffering - wrong assumption (but then you seem to make a lot of those). I only have to suffer fools like you.
GAH! The only thing that’s missing in this thread is AA telling me I’m going to hell!
marc page said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:03
And shitcan Darleen & PW
Much better.
soullite said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:03
Lesley, you don’t have to apologize for what you believe. Only weak, pathetic people apologize for what they believe. That doesn’t mean other people have to be nice to you about it. I’d suggest you get thicker skin if you’re going to be so vocal about things that matter to people.
Also, as I just said in the Feministe comment section, some of us don’t agree on this as a moral issue. While that doesn’t make either or both of us right, it does mean neither side is going to actually care what the other side says about this. Some people here clearly believe weight is in the same category as ethnicity, religion, sexual preference and gender. Some of us do not.
This is a fat country, people are touchy about it, so they make up shit to make themselves feel more secure. It’s cognitive dissonance. They know being overweight tends to lead to health problems, but they don’t want to believe them. So people like ampersand come along and tell them it’s all a big bad medical conspiracy and they decide to believe it. A shit load of anorexic people go to all sorts of websites to tell them that that’s healthy too. I doubt it matters though, they aren’t hurting anyone but themselves.
celticgirl said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:04
Highest - fuck off. I have a “retard” son and funnily, Retardo’s name never offended me. You, however do.
Funny, that.
marc page said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:06
Myabe, celticgirl, that’s because anyone who can scare the bejeeezus out of Goldstein must have his ‘heart’ in the right place.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:07
I repeat, I cannot believe any regular reader of SadlyNo believes for a second its authors are bullying insensitive creeps on a par with Malkin and Coulter, to name two extremely creepy wingnuts. Even when the SN humour is juvenile, it’s right up there with Python and bloody brilliant. I’m grateful it’s free.
Evidently, however, there are those who would support SadlyNo’s wingnutfat mockery and still hate me for judging gluttonous behaviour. I repeat, judging gluttonous behaviour, not your kid’s deafness, not your kid’s autism, not your brain tumour, but maybe yes, your anorexia (though you have my sympathy) and your type two diabetes which is has only recently become an epidemic in America and not because UFOs blasted you with mysterious rays.
I repeat, what I find here helps me cope with the madness of King George and his gluttonous corporate pals and the very real cruelty they inflict on a daily basis. Chris Clarke’s blog is lovely and stunning and his writing is breathtaking. He isn’t a humourist, he doesn’t make me laugh. When his dog died I cried buckets and I don’t even know his dog.
I need his blog. I need this blog. I have no gift for humour or snark. I rely on brilliant people to deliver me from my daily torments.
Ok, what was I trying to get to? Oh yeah, I’m trying to figure out the folks who on the one hand are fine with skewering the wingnut fat, but so not fine with skewering gluttony in general. That I’m not understanding.
Sometimes I can’t even laugh at the funnies here I get so depressed and upset thinking about what’s going on. I hope they don’t change.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:10
Lesley, you don’t have to apologize for what you believe. Only weak, pathetic people apologize for what they believe. That doesn’t mean other people have to be nice to you about it. I’d suggest you get thicker skin if you’re going to be so vocal about things that matter to people.
What makes you think I don’t have thick skin? I’d say my skin’s pretty thick by this point. If it wasn’t I’d be grovelling.
Wait, are you making fun of my skin? How dare you!
The Highest Order said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:10
Djur said,
March 1, 2007 at 10:55
“Seriously, if youre not embarrased by your weight then why argue?�
Actually, I’d imagine that people who are embarrassed by their weight would be less likely to argue. Really, it shouldn’t take you long to figure out why someone might be compelled to respond to insults. You’re a smart boy.
See, Im not embarassed being a smart boy. My point exactly.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:15
celtic girl, it sounds like you’re going through a lot and I sincerely hope you get well soon. I really mean that.
The Highest Order said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:16
celticgirl said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:04
Highest - fuck off. I have a “retard� son and funnily, Retardo’s name never offended me. You, however do.
I might have a brain tumour. You suck for not respecting me.
celticgirl said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:24
Lesley, learn to read. I DON’T have Type II Diabetes. I’m not suffering.
Wingnuts? AA? Going to hell?
God, anything would be better than this thread. Please let it die!
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:27
oh. you mentioned you have a genetic predisposition to type two diabetes, and usually this isn’t discovered until one suffers from it or is diagnosed with it.
marc page said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:28
This looks like a job for the Internet Coroner.
I now declare this thread dead.
The Highest Order said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:28
WHAAAAAA!!!!!
Mr. Roarke's Brand Salad Dressing's Poops said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:32
First of all 3B did ALL the vegetable puns, second of all, we already did works of literature as Pork, and finally C) I super heart everyone. I love ID, M, G, and HTML. Clif is beyond the pale, and I embrace Clif eliminationalism.
Just kidding, Clif is my super homey and I would crap on your head from 1000 feet in the air if you besmirch Clif.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:35
celticgirl said,March 1, 2007 at 10:16
Lesley, I’m letting you off easy - me: vegetarian (no, I don’t overindluge on carbs), overweight, formerly anorexic, chronic long term health/immune system problems, former fitness trainer (AFTER I became overweght mind, I just traded fat for muscle but never lost any substantial weight), genetic predisposition to Type II Diabetes, and (trump card) turmor on my pituitary gland which seems to play hell with my metabolism.
Yep, no suffering here.
celticgirl said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:37
No Lesley honey, people in my family have DIED from the complications of Type II. That’s how I know.
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:38
I now understand why RD Laing jumped up and down and screamed at the end of a day’s work. Turns out the “normal” family members were crazy and the patients were sane.
Going to bed.
celticgirl said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:42
And so another episode of “The Morally Superior” draws to a close…
annieangel said,
March 1, 2007 at 11:51
Celticgirl, you’re going to Hell.
:P
But seriously people, stop fighting. Let’s all hold hands and sing something.
Annie Althouse said,
March 1, 2007 at 12:35
Lies! I was the first to do ALL the vegetable puns.
ichomobothogogus said,
March 1, 2007 at 13:04
you do love to martyr yourself Lesley. If your skin’s as thick as you claim, you wouldn’t keep screaming that the PC Fat Police were coming to get you anytime someone made a reasonable point or criticized you for talking rubbish. If you talk out of your arse and just make shit up you’re going to be called on it. You haven’t bothered to deal with anyone’s substantive points, preferring to whine and throw lame insults around (fat americans and their fat SUVs? christ, you were right when you said you had no gift for humour). Is it because you have problems with reading comprehension? you do seem to have difficulty keeping track of the conversation (witness your flailing and confusion when talking to adifferentbrad)
I’d have thought the difference between Fat Jokes and actually hating fat people was fairly obvious. On behalf of all the people who thought Gav’s photoshop was funny but still think you’re a dick, give it a couple of minutes thought.
Thanks for the heads-up on Fast Food Nation though, you must be pretty down with the underground to have unearthed it. It’s practically samizdat. Have you heard of this great band called The Beatles?
Lesley said,
March 1, 2007 at 13:16
if a brain tumour could talk it would sound like ichomobothogogus.
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
March 1, 2007 at 13:27
Uh, I was reacting to adifferentbrad and flew off the handle - sick of that PC bullshit.
Just to divert everyone from the half a dozen strains of frothing, foaming argument going on for a second, I’d like to start a new one.
I hate, with a big, rich, black hate-ity hate, any use of that trite phrase “PC”. It sends me completely barking mad. And that’s just not right, you know. Cats do not bark.
Know why? Because to me, anyone using this term is essentially saying “Hey, I’m going to insult people, and if you don’t like it, well tough! And, and and, you’re oppressing me with all your talk about actually thinking of others as, like, actual human beings like me, okay? You, you, you you PC poopyhead, you!”
If I haven’t already conveyed the impression, use of PC is a very eight-year-old argument. It says ‘I’ll do what I like, and I don’t care about anyone who’s not me, and if you try to make me, I’ll call you names!’
This is something that cats do not do. We are eminently polite. We sit a polite distance from folks, and engage in polite social intercourse. We ask for our food when hungry in dulcet tones that thrill the ear. When some human or animal offends our deepest sensibilities, we engage in honest battle, then retire home to tell the tale by the fireside. When we get our leg over, we generously share our pleasure with the neighbourhood, declaiming a running commentary in piercing joyful voices. When affectionate, we snuggle our warm and furry selves upon our lucky friends, happy in the knowledge that they’re receiving one of God’s greatest gifts, that of loose fur.
And when our friends are overwhelmed by the ugliness of humanity and the utter bleakness of existence, we selflessly distract them by vomiting in their sandals.
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
March 1, 2007 at 13:32
Thanks for the heads-up on Fast Food Nation though, you must be pretty down with the underground to have unearthed it. It’s practically samizdat.
Oh, ichomobothogogus, I think I’m in love. I’ve not seen nor heard anyone else use that word in over a decade. And I double love that you used it to slay The Tedious Lesley, who was beginning to get right up my delicate little nose. Well, had been well up there in naso-pharyngeal land for quite some time, actually.
Fancy meeting me on the fence tonight, about 3 am? You can talk some more Russian to me, baby…
celticgirl said,
March 1, 2007 at 14:15
I think Lesley’s jealous of my brain tumor. You want it? No seriously, It’s all yours. Take it with my compliments. Except watch out - there’s a risk it will blow out your opitc nerve at some future date.
But other than that, hey - it’s what all the kool kidz want!
Qetesh: Cats Rule!
Qetesh the Abyssinian said,
March 1, 2007 at 14:45
Indubitably, celticgirl. And may I congratulate you on the inestimable, almost catlike, good taste you show in your nom de plume?
The likes of Lesley could not compare to the intelligence of either your brain tumour or my regurgitated dinner, alas. She merely covets same because she feels so inferior, having achieved nothing but weight loss in her life.
We, on the other hand, are clearly civilised and sophisticated beings, who share delight in the finer things of life, such as elegant disputation with other rapier wits, and, when that fails, throwing up in the toes of their shoes.
Republic of Palau said,
March 1, 2007 at 15:14
“Fast Food Nation’ =Samizdat? Maybe in America, but not elsewhere. Here in Yurp it’s just another piece of ammunition to use in our anti-fat-USAnian jihad.
I’m having much fun pointing and laughing at the greedy Americans arguing over their weight-guilt Get over your bloody selves!
Cheap Hand Bags » Comment on Dialing The Frenchy On the Left-Hand Side by Qetesh the … said,
March 1, 2007 at 15:21
[...] post by Qetesh the Abyssinian and a wordpress plugin by Elliott [...]
MCH said,
March 1, 2007 at 16:28
Oooh, look! ANOTHER circular firing squad! Now I remember why I stopped reading Alternet!!1!
Marita said,
March 1, 2007 at 16:59
Evidently, however, there are those who would support SadlyNo’s wingnutfat mockery and still hate me for judging gluttonous behaviour.
Oh for Christ’s sake. Gavin and HTML are generally funny and light-hearted. You’re a pompous bitch. You’ve read a few books and what… pamphlets you got at Whole Foods? Now you’re a fucking medical expert? Go ahead and ignore the wide range of metabolic conditions that genuinely exist that people haven’t brought on themselves. And the medications that people take for unrelated conditions that play hell with all sorts of things in their bodies, including their weights. You can even ignore the (intuitively obvious to most people) idea that two different people can eat the same diet, exercise the same amount, and one of them will still end up overweight when the other won’t. Yeah, genetics has nothing to do with it.
Feel free. Look at anyone you want who’s overweight and loudly condemn them for being gluttons. I mean, you’re clearly free of flaws yourself, and obvious well-informed enough to be able to judge the root causes of someone’s medical conditions just by fucking looking at them.
I’m not saying I agree with everything Lesley says, but she expressly related her own dietary issues as well as her mother’s cancer. So the ‘easy for her to say’ card doesn’t work.
Nope, I’m going to call bullshit on this one, HTML. She’s claimed mild hypothyroidism and a fight against the middle-age spread. That’s nothing compared to a full-blown metabolic disorder, or the struggles people go through once they’ve become seriously overweight and are fighting to return to good health. The ‘easy for her to say’ card plays just fine.
soullite522 said,
March 1, 2007 at 17:00
Lesley, I didn’t mean to insult you. What leads me to believe you do have thin skin is that you seem to respond to everyone who comments about what you said. Maybe you just think they deserve an answer, but when I try to do that I just usually end up feeling burnt out. I wasn’t calling you weak or pathetic, I was saying people who apologize for their beliefs are. I haven’t really seen you do that.
soullite522 said,
March 1, 2007 at 17:15
Everyone here is behaving as if they are morally superior. That’s because we all think that our morality is the right morality and as such, your morality is the wrong morality. Seriously, Celticgirl is wielding her illness like a club to bludgeon everyone who disagrees with her. Her criticism of Lindsey as a ‘martyr’ are laughable because of that. I’m sorry she’s sick, but most overweight don’t have brain tumors.
Don’t think those of you who argue that calling people “fat” is the most wicked thing possible don’t sound as if you believe that you’re “morally superior”. Of course you do. How would you really have us describe you? Does “heavy” really sound better? how about “above average weight”. Those don’t work, as body builders are heavy and above , not that it’s really more healthy. How about Endomorphic? Nothing insulting or scientifically innacurate about Sheldon and his Somatotypes… Oh wait, yeah there is. You are all demanding we treat your weight as something that should never be mentioned, as opposed to something that shouldn’t be used to stigmatize you.
Teh Dog With Peanut Butter on Nose said,
March 1, 2007 at 17:17
Now I’m offended!
GoatBoy said,
March 1, 2007 at 17:27
If someone is a prick with a big nose you might be expected to insult that feature. If someone is an asshole with horrible hair an insult to that person would be expected to make note of it.
So why is fat off limits, again? When, let’s be clear, we’re talking about insulting colossal pricks.
GoatBoy said,
March 1, 2007 at 17:30
And Lesley’s been taking thread tenacity lessons from Doc Sammich.
Trolling is fine for a hobby but it makes for a shitty full time job.
GoatBoy said,
March 1, 2007 at 17:35
[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKaDBKEzlvI
Robert Green said,
March 1, 2007 at 17:35
ah, the old days, where lefties argued picayune points of order amongst themselves while rome burned.
well, that went well for us, as liberalism is of course ascendant. isn’t it?
fattie fat fatbags, who fucking cares. and as i’m sure has been said over 1 billion times above, sadly! no follows a certain style sheet, and that sheet (page 666 of strunk and white’s elements of style) most assuredly calls for getting under the skin of pretend-genocidal scum.
fatty fatness with a side of fat sauce.
Raijin said,
March 1, 2007 at 17:47
Hey, I missed out on the whole “Negrofacism” thing. Can somebody post a picture so I can see it?
Lawnguylander said,
March 1, 2007 at 17:52
I can’t decide who’s worse, those sanctimonious assholes over at Feministe or Lesley. I think I’ll be in a better frame of mind to make my decision after I down this pint of Phish Food.
GoatBoy said,
March 1, 2007 at 18:02
“I can’t decide who’s worse, those sanctimonious assholes over at Feministe or Lesley.”
Whichever’s fatter, of course!
soullite522 said,
March 1, 2007 at 18:08
Goatboy, Lesley is clearly a common reader of this blog. SHE’S not the one trolling. SHE’S not the one ridiculing the OP’s post endlessly. Trolling doesn’t mean disagreeing with you, or other “regulars” . GTod, you people are clickish and annoying as the folks in the old AOL chatrooms. Defend your friends if you want, but understand that that’s all you’re doing. You’re not defending this site from trolls.
GoatBoy said,
March 1, 2007 at 18:11
I CALLS em like I SEES em.
—
“I disagree with Lesley.”
Lesley: “Typical response from a lazy fatty!”
soullite: “Lesley is totally not trolling.”
kingubu said,
March 1, 2007 at 18:17
You’ve dismissed everyone who has pointed out that there are many factors that contribute to obesity— beyond laziness, ignorance, selfishness– as engaging in self-justification and refusing to take responsibility. When presented with both facts and personal experience, you have stepped past every point made and simply reasserted your beliefs, insulting and attacking anyone who dared to challenge you. Why so committed?
Let’s say for the sake of argument that what you believe is true: that most fat people are that way because they are lazy and eat bad food. Why do you care? Why do you feel entitled to look down your nose that them? Is reserving the right to judge people by their looks really the territory you want to defend?
Here’s why it matters: there are hundreds of thousands of people in the US, mostly women, who spend every day of their lives starving themselves, throwing up every scrap of food they eat, brutalizing their bodies with over-exercise, embracing pain and risking death by going under the surgeon’s knife, who will literally endure anything– anything– not to be fat. They have internalized the “thin good, fat bad” message so deeply that many of them would rather die (and often do) than to endure the social consequences of being fat.
So, please, Lesley, if you can’t bring yourself to see us fat folks as equals deserving your respect; if we must forever be a “them” to you, a proxy of American consumerism, perhaps you might at least consider that the one-dimensional attitude you hold so dear has direct and grave consequences for women (a group that I assume you do identify with).
kingubu said,
March 1, 2007 at 18:25
And for the record, again, I wasn’t offended by Retardo’s original post in any way. I only tried to point out why he might expect some shit for it.
norbizness said,
March 1, 2007 at 18:31
It’s times like this I am thankful I have no appreciable community of participating readers.
GoatBoy said,
March 1, 2007 at 18:35
Well stated, kingubu. But what about this?
FlipYrWhig said,
March 1, 2007 at 18:44
It’s times like this I am thankful I have no appreciable community of participating readers.
Norb, by addressing “readers,” you reify a hierarchy that places the literate above the illiterate; you insult the dyslexic and minimize their struggles; and, frankly, show a habit of mind that could be described as, if not fascist per se, certainly fascist-enabling.
ichomobothogogus said,
March 1, 2007 at 18:48
soullite522, were you reading the same comments thread as everyone else? i can’t think of anyone who suggested you shouldn’t ever use the word fat, or said that calling someone fat was the worst thing ever, or said one’s weight should never be mentioned. i’m pretty sure it was me not celticgirl who said Lesley (i assume you mean Lesley) was martyring herself, and she brought up her illnesses to illustrate possible non-behavioural causes of obesity. she wasn’t bludgeoning anyone. i think that covers everything. or is there anything you got right? maybe before jumping in to insult everyone you could go back and read what people actually said
norbizness said,
March 1, 2007 at 18:50
Flip: I least I’ve put out a series of “blog on tape” recordings as read by Mark “Niedermeyer” Metcalf.
GoatBoy said,
March 1, 2007 at 18:53
Franken is OFF the blogroll!
Teh Dog With Peanut Butter on Nose said,
March 1, 2007 at 19:10
When will someone address my complaints? Peanut Butter on a dogs nose isn’t something to be laughed at, nor is it something that should make you feel better about yourselves. How dare you publish that taudry video of me, if only to maximize my pain and humiliation!
Now I’m going to lick myself, because I can.
billy pilgrim said,
March 1, 2007 at 19:13
Norb, we’re just waiting for you to step over the line; then, BAM, we’ll come down on your comment section like a battalion of Annieangels on crack, with Pasty-troopers providing air support.
No really, I read your site every day. Hardly ever comment though; your WAY funnier than me.
Totally OT: Mark Metcalf now lives in our city, and does acting in the local theater on a regular basis. Recently he played the Dad in The Christmas Story. Totally nice guy.
kingubu said,
March 1, 2007 at 19:14
Well stated, kingubu. But what about this?
I dunno, GoatBoy, the whole thing’s gotten all balled up. Retardo’s original point– that its just plain stupid to shun the SadNosians for making fat jokes while embracing others who advocate torture and genocide– was well taken, but that got lost almost immediately.
Personally, I don’t have a problem with unleashing Teh Fat Jokes as part of the broader strategy of attacking the Wingnuts. I wouldn’t do it, but that’s a personal judgment call and I’m not the scolding type.
Ridiculing someone’s fatness as a means to attack them for being a despicable bastard is obviously not the same as saying that they are despicable because they are fat. But it is also true that doing so runs the risk of reinforcing negative stereotypes about fat people. That’s what makes the whole thing sort of a gray area, I think, and no hard-and-fast rule applies either way.
Where the whole thing went south (no, that’s not a redneck joke) is when Lesley and others decided to use the discussion of that gray are as an opportunity to unleash some of the most ridiculous and self-righteous anti-fatty stereotypes. That’s when people started choosing up sides and nothing good has come of it since then.
GoatBoy said,
March 1, 2007 at 19:15
I concur. You try walking through the mall licking peanut butter off your own nose and see what kind of reception you get!
GoatBoy said,
March 1, 2007 at 19:19
I’m with you, kingubu (the second coolest band in the history of Ohio — world’s tallest midget prize there?)
Lesley is a troll, and not one of our usual fun and spunky variety. And och! the bites she’s gotten here. Shame on a whole bunch of you.
And, because I can’t resist:
Ridiculing someone’s bad hair as a means to attack them for being a despicable bastard is obviously not the same as saying that they are despicable because they have bad hair. But it is also true that doing so runs the risk of reinforcing negative stereotypes about people with bad hair.
So all those Glenn Reynolds and Ben Shapiro and Jonah Goldberg jokes are off the table for those who want to remain ON the blogroll.
kingubu said,
March 1, 2007 at 19:25
Now I’m going to lick myself, because I can.
Your comment in objectively anti-biped.
How nice for you that the genetic lottery endowed you with special gifts. Have you no compassion for the millions who will go to their graves having never known the apparent joy of licking their own genitals???
Now, go get your ball, you insensitive clod, its time for walkies.
Righteous Bubba said,<