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	<title>Comments on: Dick &#8220;Boom Boom&#8221; Cheney Escapes Again</title>
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	<description>Poise! Poise!</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Karl Rove II</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-137277</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Rove II</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-137277</guid>
		<description>(sniffs)

Poo?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(sniffs)</p>
<p>Poo?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sinister eyebrow</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136948</link>
		<dc:creator>Sinister eyebrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 14:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136948</guid>
		<description>Anyone besides me notice that a soldier died, almost 2 dozen other people blown to bits, just as many wounded, and Cheney has not one word to say about any of the carnage that resulted from his visit---no sympathy, no condolences, no nothing.  All he talkes about is himself and his steely resolve.

What a callous asshole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone besides me notice that a soldier died, almost 2 dozen other people blown to bits, just as many wounded, and Cheney has not one word to say about any of the carnage that resulted from his visit&#8212;no sympathy, no condolences, no nothing.  All he talkes about is himself and his steely resolve.</p>
<p>What a callous asshole.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mo's Bike Shop</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136555</link>
		<dc:creator>Mo's Bike Shop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 05:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136555</guid>
		<description>Let me add, Fuckawf grampaw.^</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me add, Fuckawf grampaw.^</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lesley</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136554</link>
		<dc:creator>Lesley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 05:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136554</guid>
		<description>Cheney&#039;s bottom teeth seem to be growing faster than Pinocchio&#039;s nose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheney&#8217;s bottom teeth seem to be growing faster than Pinocchio&#8217;s nose.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Basharov</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136505</link>
		<dc:creator>Basharov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136505</guid>
		<description>If the troops can&#039;t even find extra socks and blankets for a few reporters stuck on one of the largest military bases in the world, what does this say about how well supplied the troops are with simple things like -- oh, socks and blankets?

Oh, and I was listening to BBC News this morning when the Beeb reported on the suicide bombing at Baghram.  An army major was in high public relations mode and told the BBC that this bombing was actually a &quot;success&quot; for the security forces at the base -- because the bomber didn&#039;t make it to the actual entrance gate but blew himself up at a security checkpoint outside the base.

As some ancient guy once said at the battle of Pyrrhus:  &quot;Another victory like this and we are undone.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the troops can&#8217;t even find extra socks and blankets for a few reporters stuck on one of the largest military bases in the world, what does this say about how well supplied the troops are with simple things like &#8212; oh, socks and blankets?</p>
<p>Oh, and I was listening to BBC News this morning when the Beeb reported on the suicide bombing at Baghram.  An army major was in high public relations mode and told the BBC that this bombing was actually a &#8220;success&#8221; for the security forces at the base &#8212; because the bomber didn&#8217;t make it to the actual entrance gate but blew himself up at a security checkpoint outside the base.</p>
<p>As some ancient guy once said at the battle of Pyrrhus:  &#8220;Another victory like this and we are undone.&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lesley</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136503</link>
		<dc:creator>Lesley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136503</guid>
		<description>meant to say &lt;i&gt;I wouldn&#039;t put it past Cheney...&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>meant to say <i>I wouldn&#8217;t put it past Cheney&#8230;</i></p>
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		<title>By: RubDMC</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136502</link>
		<dc:creator>RubDMC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136502</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;wishing the success of a Taliban operation to boot, even if offered only in jest, does more to hurt our cause than help it.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

No, that only applies to the upcoming intramural softball game, where the wingnutz&#039;ll get &lt;i&gt;slaughtered&lt;/i&gt; in a whole &#039;nuther way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;wishing the success of a Taliban operation to boot, even if offered only in jest, does more to hurt our cause than help it.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>No, that only applies to the upcoming intramural softball game, where the wingnutz&#8217;ll get <i>slaughtered</i> in a whole &#8216;nuther way.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lesley</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136500</link>
		<dc:creator>Lesley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136500</guid>
		<description>It seems just a little too convenient that Cheney was a target considering, (from what I heard on CBC this morning) that he was a mile away from where the blast took place.  And who, but an insider, could have tipped off the tewwowists? It doesn&#039;t seem likely.  Even though the event took place in Afghanistan, a country the US all but abandoned when it decided to invade Iraq (which didn&#039;t have terrorists in 2003), I would put it past Cheney to exploit a suicide bombing to bolster opinion on keeping the war in Iraq going (and to a lesser extent providing an entirely unsympathetic VP with a smidgen of support).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems just a little too convenient that Cheney was a target considering, (from what I heard on CBC this morning) that he was a mile away from where the blast took place.  And who, but an insider, could have tipped off the tewwowists? It doesn&#8217;t seem likely.  Even though the event took place in Afghanistan, a country the US all but abandoned when it decided to invade Iraq (which didn&#8217;t have terrorists in 2003), I would put it past Cheney to exploit a suicide bombing to bolster opinion on keeping the war in Iraq going (and to a lesser extent providing an entirely unsympathetic VP with a smidgen of support).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lesley</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136487</link>
		<dc:creator>Lesley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136487</guid>
		<description>I wonder if the guy he shot in the face tipped them off.  

Cheney should just stay home. He&#039;d save more of the lives he&#039;s already putting at risk.  Really, who wants to die for that SOB?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if the guy he shot in the face tipped them off.  </p>
<p>Cheney should just stay home. He&#8217;d save more of the lives he&#8217;s already putting at risk.  Really, who wants to die for that SOB?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: D. Sidhe</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136460</link>
		<dc:creator>D. Sidhe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 02:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136460</guid>
		<description>Oh, damn. It&#039;s &quot;grampaw&quot;, isn&#039;t it. I really didn&#039;t mean to get your name wrong, and I apologize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, damn. It&#8217;s &#8220;grampaw&#8221;, isn&#8217;t it. I really didn&#8217;t mean to get your name wrong, and I apologize.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: D. Sidhe</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136459</link>
		<dc:creator>D. Sidhe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 02:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136459</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d just like to second the &quot;This is not a policy blog&quot; statement, observe that Grandpaw has a point about the moral high ground even if on this occasion I don&#039;t entirely agree (mostly &#039;cause of the aforementioned snark exception and also because I just love mikey and can tell when he&#039;s just smartin&#039; off), and note that Bill O&#039;Reilly really only started to go cartoon-sproingy-steam-comin&#039;-out-his-ears-batshit in public once Al Franken and Keith Olbermann started taunting him regularly. 

Nonetheless, Dick Cheney is at least a partial cause of those people, among hundreds of thousands of others both in war zones and in unheated homes in winter in the US, being dead and Al Qaeda being a success, so I kind of think the very least we should be allowed is a little leeway to mock him from time to time. I know it won&#039;t make him feel so ashamed he will go away and take up a life of quiet repentance where he helps the poor in expiation of his sins, but damn, I can hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d just like to second the &#8220;This is not a policy blog&#8221; statement, observe that Grandpaw has a point about the moral high ground even if on this occasion I don&#8217;t entirely agree (mostly &#8217;cause of the aforementioned snark exception and also because I just love mikey and can tell when he&#8217;s just smartin&#8217; off), and note that Bill O&#8217;Reilly really only started to go cartoon-sproingy-steam-comin&#8217;-out-his-ears-batshit in public once Al Franken and Keith Olbermann started taunting him regularly. </p>
<p>Nonetheless, Dick Cheney is at least a partial cause of those people, among hundreds of thousands of others both in war zones and in unheated homes in winter in the US, being dead and Al Qaeda being a success, so I kind of think the very least we should be allowed is a little leeway to mock him from time to time. I know it won&#8217;t make him feel so ashamed he will go away and take up a life of quiet repentance where he helps the poor in expiation of his sins, but damn, I can hope.</p>
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		<title>By: mikey</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136436</link>
		<dc:creator>mikey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 01:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136436</guid>
		<description>Hokay, I was cracking wise, but grampaw&#039;s being serious, so the least I can do is consider his position.  And y&#039;know, it&#039;s one of those things that sounds pretty good.  Yeah, I&#039;m saying, I could support that.  But then.  Waitaminute.  Let&#039;s think this through for a bit.  It sounds to me, when you boil it down, that ole grampaw&#039;s really saying I should let the wingnuts have some level of control over my speech.  That my fear of their calling me names, or getting some ammo out of my words should cause me to carefully parse, edit and phrase my political beliefs.  And you know, I&#039;ve never held back on my position in support of Palestinian sovereignty and my opposition to palestinian oppression because some wingnuts are going to call me anti semitic.  It is their nature, it is what they do.

And yeah, I know that joking about the blowing up of the vp and supporting the palestinian cause are not the same.  But your position, that I should curb my speech, even on a lefty snark site, because of what THEY might say, sorry, I&#039;m prett sure that ain&#039;t gonna happen...

mikey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hokay, I was cracking wise, but grampaw&#8217;s being serious, so the least I can do is consider his position.  And y&#8217;know, it&#8217;s one of those things that sounds pretty good.  Yeah, I&#8217;m saying, I could support that.  But then.  Waitaminute.  Let&#8217;s think this through for a bit.  It sounds to me, when you boil it down, that ole grampaw&#8217;s really saying I should let the wingnuts have some level of control over my speech.  That my fear of their calling me names, or getting some ammo out of my words should cause me to carefully parse, edit and phrase my political beliefs.  And you know, I&#8217;ve never held back on my position in support of Palestinian sovereignty and my opposition to palestinian oppression because some wingnuts are going to call me anti semitic.  It is their nature, it is what they do.</p>
<p>And yeah, I know that joking about the blowing up of the vp and supporting the palestinian cause are not the same.  But your position, that I should curb my speech, even on a lefty snark site, because of what THEY might say, sorry, I&#8217;m prett sure that ain&#8217;t gonna happen&#8230;</p>
<p>mikey</p>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136432</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 01:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136432</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;but Iâ€™m also levelheaded enough to realize that wishing them dead, and wishing the success of a Taliban operation to boot, even if offered only in jest, does more to hurt our cause than help it.&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s fine if you&#039;re an all-policy guy at an all-policy blog, but jokes range from banana-peel to atrocity.  It&#039;s a fine line, but I think most people here are on the proper side of the line that divides us from, say, the wit and wisdom of Ann Coulter.  Can&#039;t say I know how to define the line, but like pornography I think we know what we&#039;re talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>but Iâ€™m also levelheaded enough to realize that wishing them dead, and wishing the success of a Taliban operation to boot, even if offered only in jest, does more to hurt our cause than help it.</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s fine if you&#8217;re an all-policy guy at an all-policy blog, but jokes range from banana-peel to atrocity.  It&#8217;s a fine line, but I think most people here are on the proper side of the line that divides us from, say, the wit and wisdom of Ann Coulter.  Can&#8217;t say I know how to define the line, but like pornography I think we know what we&#8217;re talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: grampaw</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136415</link>
		<dc:creator>grampaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 01:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136415</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;...until they drop whole Curled Pinky of Respectable Savageryâ„¢ bit and lay their craven, cowardly, paranoid, hate-filled, genocidal hearts right out in the open for all to see.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
And you don&#039;t think they&#039;d manage to do that without your help?  

From what I&#039;ve seen, watching their own bloodthirsty ideas fail, or even just publicly contemplating those plans to begin with, is enough to do the trick.  And frankly, it looks to me like they&#039;ve got &lt;b&gt;you&lt;/b&gt; pretty well convinced of their depravity, too, kingubu.

I do share a fervent desire to see the RWMs properly and permanently marginalized, but I&#039;m also levelheaded enough to realize  that wishing them dead, and wishing the success of a Taliban operation to boot, even if offered only in jest, does more to hurt our cause than help it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8230;until they drop whole Curled Pinky of Respectable Savageryâ„¢ bit and lay their craven, cowardly, paranoid, hate-filled, genocidal hearts right out in the open for all to see.</p></blockquote>
<p>And you don&#8217;t think they&#8217;d manage to do that without your help?  </p>
<p>From what I&#8217;ve seen, watching their own bloodthirsty ideas fail, or even just publicly contemplating those plans to begin with, is enough to do the trick.  And frankly, it looks to me like they&#8217;ve got <b>you</b> pretty well convinced of their depravity, too, kingubu.</p>
<p>I do share a fervent desire to see the RWMs properly and permanently marginalized, but I&#8217;m also levelheaded enough to realize  that wishing them dead, and wishing the success of a Taliban operation to boot, even if offered only in jest, does more to hurt our cause than help it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: kingubu</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136389</link>
		<dc:creator>kingubu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 00:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136389</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
The fact that the RWMs will always find something to scream about doesnâ€™t mean itâ€™s OK to give them something to scream about.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, this is (yet another) point where we differ, grampaw. 

Me, I want to push them over the edge until they drop whole Curled Pinky of Respectable Savagery&#8482; bit and lay their craven, cowardly, paranoid, hate-filled, genocidal hearts right out in the open for all to see.

Call it the Queeq Maneuver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
The fact that the RWMs will always find something to scream about doesnâ€™t mean itâ€™s OK to give them something to scream about.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, this is (yet another) point where we differ, grampaw. </p>
<p>Me, I want to push them over the edge until they drop whole Curled Pinky of Respectable Savagery&trade; bit and lay their craven, cowardly, paranoid, hate-filled, genocidal hearts right out in the open for all to see.</p>
<p>Call it the Queeq Maneuver.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136378</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 00:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136378</guid>
		<description>I wish the people in front of me at a stop sign would die.  Saying &quot;ooh, so close&quot; regarding Cheney&#039;s recent adventure is not far removed from that.  How serious am I about either wish?  The answer for me is not at all serious.

(Now that I think of it, if the people in front of me at a stop sign were dead they&#039;d be blocking my car, and then I&#039;d REALLY want to kill someone.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish the people in front of me at a stop sign would die.  Saying &#8220;ooh, so close&#8221; regarding Cheney&#8217;s recent adventure is not far removed from that.  How serious am I about either wish?  The answer for me is not at all serious.</p>
<p>(Now that I think of it, if the people in front of me at a stop sign were dead they&#8217;d be blocking my car, and then I&#8217;d REALLY want to kill someone.)</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: grampaw</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136375</link>
		<dc:creator>grampaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 00:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136375</guid>
		<description>D. Sidhe:

The fact that the RWMs will always &lt;b&gt;find&lt;/b&gt; something to scream about doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s OK to &lt;b&gt;give&lt;/b&gt; them something to scream about.

And what mikey would be giving away, if he were actually serious, is the ground on which he stands when he makes &quot;killing people is bad&quot; type arguments (and yes, his arguments are always better and more nuanced than that, but again, the RWMs aren&#039;t going to go back and check).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D. Sidhe:</p>
<p>The fact that the RWMs will always <b>find</b> something to scream about doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s OK to <b>give</b> them something to scream about.</p>
<p>And what mikey would be giving away, if he were actually serious, is the ground on which he stands when he makes &#8220;killing people is bad&#8221; type arguments (and yes, his arguments are always better and more nuanced than that, but again, the RWMs aren&#8217;t going to go back and check).</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: D. Sidhe</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136363</link>
		<dc:creator>D. Sidhe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136363</guid>
		<description>Then you get to the point where you realize that the wingnuts will scream hysterically no matter *what* a liberal commenter on a liberal blog says, and you just stop giving a damn what they think. The folks responsible for Lucienne.com and LGF have no room to whine about snark, even if they think they do. 

And, uh, Pam, didn&#039;t someone try that already? He had other priorities, I believe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then you get to the point where you realize that the wingnuts will scream hysterically no matter *what* a liberal commenter on a liberal blog says, and you just stop giving a damn what they think. The folks responsible for Lucienne.com and LGF have no room to whine about snark, even if they think they do. </p>
<p>And, uh, Pam, didn&#8217;t someone try that already? He had other priorities, I believe.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: grampaw</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136284</link>
		<dc:creator>grampaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136284</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If itâ€™s ok for me to bag bush for being incompetent...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ah, but is isn&#039;t.  We call that the &quot;incompetence dodge&quot; for a reason, you know.

And your glib argument there works similarly&#8212; you&#039;re evading any discussion of the merits of the Taliban&#039;s &lt;i&gt;policy&lt;/i&gt; of trying to blow Cheney to bits.  You know, very real, smelly, messy bits?  The sort of bits you&#039;re always reminding us you&#039;ve got true and horrifying experience with?

Yes, I realize you (and many others making the same sorts of cracks) are just being snarky, but the right wing maniacs aren&#039;t going to give you, or anyone else, the benefit of the doubt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If itâ€™s ok for me to bag bush for being incompetent&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Ah, but is isn&#8217;t.  We call that the &#8220;incompetence dodge&#8221; for a reason, you know.</p>
<p>And your glib argument there works similarly&mdash; you&#8217;re evading any discussion of the merits of the Taliban&#8217;s <i>policy</i> of trying to blow Cheney to bits.  You know, very real, smelly, messy bits?  The sort of bits you&#8217;re always reminding us you&#8217;ve got true and horrifying experience with?</p>
<p>Yes, I realize you (and many others making the same sorts of cracks) are just being snarky, but the right wing maniacs aren&#8217;t going to give you, or anyone else, the benefit of the doubt.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: R. Porrofatto</title>
		<link>http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136201</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Porrofatto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sadlyno.com/archives/5176.html#comment-136201</guid>
		<description>Cheney was due back by now but he insists on waiting for the bombing victims to apologize to him. It&#039;s his due.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheney was due back by now but he insists on waiting for the bombing victims to apologize to him. It&#8217;s his due.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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