Jan
18

Wingnuts Take LARPing to Some Weird Places




Posted at 3:19 by Cerberus

No, that won’t work at all, a dragon can decimate that village in 2-3 turns tops.

Too Damn Many Assholes, Too Damn Many Sites:

Guns.


I’m not their biggest fan at the moment.

Like most of the non-gunpowder-snorting public, I’m starting to get little tired of the regular-like-clockwork human sacrifices of women and children we’re expected to make so a bunch of insecure suburban white men can regularly shoot an M16 from the hip like the totally not-gay and totally not-compensating action heroes they imagine themselves to be. I hate how broken our conversation about guns is, how we never seem to change things for the better or reduce the amount of guns in the hands of sociopaths, violent abusers, and depressed kids who really didn’t need a quick way out in their final state of mind.

And frankly, I’m just sort of done overall.

I feel about the gun-nut community in the wake of Sandy Hook about the same as I do about nuclear energy proponents after the fallout from Fukushima. And it has little to do with the events themselves. Yes, the events are horrible and necessitate changes in thought about gun control and nuclear energy, but those don’t elicit my hate to the degree in which I exhibited in my epic ragesplosion.

It’s the reaction by the communities. Both communities took a tragedy that might necessitate minor reforms to their central hobby and universally decided to undergo campaigns of misinformation and victim blaming. Becoming more concerned about getting the blood off their own hands so they can protect their hobby or jobs than in acknowledging the reality in front of them and lacking seemingly anyone to really stand up in the community and tell them to fuck off.

I mean, for fuck’s sake, even epic fail communities like the gamer community, the comic book nerd community, or the atheist community at least have internal strife when someone is an unconscionable dick. They have people splitting the community asunder, people rising in outrage, and people accepting real responsibility and apologizing for it every time. Not nearly enough of the people, but definitely some. And that’s because any community that lacks that, that consists only of dodging responsibility for fuck ups, becomes completely morally bankrupt.

It becomes evil.

But for all my unfair social disgust at the gun-nut community for how they’ve responded to Sandy Hook, I’m not even close to the most damning critic of them.

Nor are any of the people who have fought tooth and nail or spoken out passionately for gun control. Nor even are those various dusky hued shocktroopers that Mecha Obama hired to melt down all the wingnut guns in front of them before they proceed to have mutually fulfilling consensual sex with the wingnuts’ white women.

It’s themselves.

Because long after the rest of us resigned ourselves to nothing ever changing and going back to our gay orgies and abortion parties, the wingnuts have been busy still trying to justify their little murder stick hobby as an important and necessary thing.

And well… it’s honestly kind of amazing in a horrifying way, because they really never fail to serve as the strongest possible case for why we need to remove anything sharper than a spork from their surroundings at all times.

We’ve had Alex Jones ranting insane conspiracy theories and making people feel empathy for Piers Morgan of all people. And then following that up by siccing his listeners on an old man who sheltered some of the Sandy Hook kids because clearly he was a Free Mason in charge of the Illuminati that is dumping the fluoride in the water. We’ve had the NRA trying to argue that Obama and his family haven’t yet been assassinated (but not for lack of trying in winding up their base) by their nutjobs is proof that we should all have infinite guns forever. We’ve had no end of psycho legislatures deciding to run with the NRA’s insane plan to defeat school shootings, but littering the schools with guns either in the hands of underpaid janitors or teachers or else in the hands of “volunteers” i.e. George Zimmerman clones.

And that’s small potatoes compared to Joe Arpaio deciding to use that idea to send rape squads into schools whether they want them or not to harass the students for having the temerity to occasionally get shot by adults (and yes, the squad actually includes people who are violent abusers of children and women and at least one who has successfully been convicted for child molestation, because why not at this point).

And there’s the idea depicted above. Plans for a gun “citadel” for Real Murican Patriots to flee to for when the gated communities don’t quite feel paranoid enough and- I’m sorry, I just can’t pretend to take this one seriously. It’s a goddamn D&D map. It’s got fucking towers for fuck’s sake. Swap out the arms factory for a “dragon breeding pit” and I could probably slap this down in the middle of a campaign without anyone blinking an eye.

And while all that may look damning to those of us with… functional eyes, that’s not even close to the best of it.

Where it really gets self-incriminating is when the poor man-children try and justify their hobby collecting toy murder sticks as grown adults as if it was the most necessary and dire thing in teh universe.

Because as I stated before in my hate rant, people need guns about as much as people need stamp collections or a Fleshlight. So when they try and explain why the really need that shiny new Bushmaster with the extended clip, red chrome wheel rims, and handy masturbatory aid that all their friends got to play with in that… cough cough horrible tragedy of course, it starts turning into some of the best high fantasy to be produced outside the British Isles.

William A. Levinson, American Fantasy and Sci Fi:
Why Does Anybody Need a 30-Round Magainze?

Shorter (or the last port before Jungle):

  • I’m going to need that 30-round magazine for when I’m fighting off spacemen and orcs atop my majestic pink unicorn on the surface of the moon and other fantasy scenarios yanked directly out of my wet dreams.

Our first submitter to Realms of Fantasy Magazine, tries to explain why it’s totally necessary that his Red Ryder BB gun replacement be able to spurt out streams of liquid death.

Why does anybody need a high capacity magazine? If Senator Manchin were to educate himself by, for example, attending Front Sight’s four-day defensive handgun class, he would learn the two primary answers:

(1) Failure to stop the aggressor, and

(2) Multiple aggressors

Of course. If only he attended a class in how to handle a deadly weapon that took less time than training on how to handle handing out badges at a comics convention, he would have known that you need all 30 rounds when you are… er… help?

The classic .38 caliber revolver, with a capacity of six rounds, was the standard sidearm of the United States Army during the Moro insurrection in the Philippines. The Army found at least one dead Army officer with an empty sidearm, and his head split open by a machete or similar weapon. They also found the soldier’s killer, who had finally bled to death. Six rounds of .38 were therefore not enough to convince even one determined attacker.

Of course! If ever you are illegally occupying a foreign country and one of the uppity locals decides he’s had enough of your stupid face, then you’ll need that minigun feeder strand in order to stop him when he starts busting out machete moves straight out of that The Raid: Redemption movie.

And let’s not forget that a crazed murderer hopped up on the marijuanas might turn into the Incredible Hulk and become impervious to bullets.

Ayoob does not report the size of the .22′s magazine, but the Moro insurrection exemplifies why even a 30-round rifle clip might not be enough to stop a crazed and determined attacker, such as one hopped up on a drug like PCP. “He had 32 Krag balls through him and was only stopped by the 33rd bullet — a Colt .45 slug through both ears.” The Krag-Jorgensen’s 30-caliber cartridge was far more powerful than the .22 in Ayoob’s example, but not sufficiently powerful to civilize this particular attacker even when fired in mass.

Wow! Fuck, firearms, you’re making a stronger argument for just handing a small Filipino man a machete and some PCP and letting him go full on ninja on the bad guys.

You know, if life really was like the action movie you so desperately want it to be.

The .45-caliber Automatic Colt Pistol was the Army’s specific solution to the “failure to stop” problem in the Philippines. A single hit from a .45 caliber bullet will (per Cooper) stop the aggressor 95 percent of the time. This does not mean, however, that 7 or 8 rounds are enough for all conceivable defensive scenarios. Front Sight teaches students to change magazines in (ideally) less than two seconds.

After all, it helps ensure maximum body count when you decide to go for a perfectly innocent spree shooting in a schooooh boy, I mean, for when I’m shooting up niggers. Yeah, that sounds better!

Gang Bangers and the Knockout Game

Front Sight’s 4-day defensive handgun class included scenarios with multiple aggressors, including four gang bangers on a street and five or more in a house (along with innocent bystanders). Front Sight’s standard doctrine is to fire a controlled pair into an aggressor’s thoracic cavity and, in the event of failure to stop, another into his cranio-ocular cavity to take out his central nervous system.

In the street gang situation, though, one shot is fired into each gang member due to the need to economize on both time and ammunition; only those that don’t go down (or flee) then get “seconds.”

Yeah, he goes there. But don’t call his delusional fantasies about wanting an excuse to shoot up a bunch of black kids for the irredeemable sin of being generic teenagers racist.

Then there is the knockout game, in which a street gang selects a victim at random, knocks him or her down, and then maybe beats him or her to a pulp. Here is an example that involved six individuals; only one struck a blow, but the others seemed to approve. Although the Web page and the book it promotes focuses on black racial violence, there is similar Caucasian-on-black crime, such as that perpetrated by the Ku Klux Klan.

See? Totally not racist.

In any event, if there are six (or more) bad guys, you are obviously going to need far more than six bullets.

Obviously.

I mean, what’re you more likely to encounter in your daily life? 30 clear and threatening bad guys kind enough to signal an attack from one easily defended vector allowing you to load up and cock your AK in a way that surely in no way resembles wannabe gangsta posers? Or your kid sneaking into your gun cabinet and offing himself with a stray round you left in the chamber when you last went to the Range to play Bad Ass white man against the evil black horde?

It’s like liberals are living in a fantasy world or something.

The anti-Second Amendment camp may argue that the teacher who was assaulted in this video would not have had time to defend himself with a firearm or anything else, because his attacker hit him by surprise. (While use of a firearm in response to a fist might normally be considered excessive force, multiple aggressors, even unarmed ones, create a disparity of force situation that might indeed justify a lethal response. The same applies if a single unarmed aggressor is much younger, bigger, and/or stronger than the victim, e.g. a teenage punk against a senior citizen or woman.) This is where the five conditions of mental awareness, as taught by Front Sight, come into play.

Okay, Tolkien, sell me on how this works out in your fantasy world.

We’ve got your magical unicorn scenario where the unarmed bady guy committing the lesser crime of assault finally gives you the green light to commit the murder you’ve always dreamed of, but oh noes, wasn’t nice enough to stand on the opposite side of the street and wave his knife until you could properly see him for the mismatched showdown. Whatcha gonna do?

States of Mental Awareness

The knockout game victim was in what Front Sight calls Condition White, which means he was not paying attention to his surroundings. Front Sight recommends living in Condition Yellow.

Condition Yellow? Is that pissing yourself fearing everything and your surroundings in the hope of literally inducing a psychotic break will somehow protect you from the infinitesimally small chance that you as a cisgendered white straight male will randomly suffer street harassment and assault?

This does not mean a state of paranoia but it includes, for example, not getting too close to alleys or other positions from which you can be ambushed. It also means looking around you when you are handling your car keys in a parking lot. Violent criminals often avoid people who are clearly alert; they, like all predators in the animal kingdom, don’t want to take a chance with anybody or anything that might hurt them.

Holy shit…

I was… right. I dunno how depressed I should feel about that right now.

All right, enough from Senor White Ass Levinson. Sure, his arguments for wanting his death stick were not only stupid but also damned “gun training programs” as being terrorist breeding cells, but maybe the next guy is-

William L. Gansert, American Acid Trip:
Three in the Head

Shorter (or the last port before Jungle):

  • I PERSONALLY SAVED NEW YORK WITH MY PENIS SUBSTITUTE!

… or not.

No, you know what? I refuse to believe that even the professional fantasists known as gun nuts would-

I carried a gun in New York City for more than a decade — back when there were thousands of murders a year and the Bronx led the nation in killings. On at least four occasions, that gun saved my life, and in a couple of instances, the lives of people who were with me at the time.

For 13 years I had a New York City full carry permit.

For a number of years I concealed and carried a gun in my son’s grammar school as well.

I don’t think the world would be a better place without me, and it is indisputable that my Beretta 92FC is responsible for my presence today.

That proves-

I never shot or killed anyone, and except for the tens of thousands of rounds I put through my gun practicing, I never had to fire my weapon either, despite the fact — as I mentioned — it saved my life on several occasions.

Maybe he-

I would load the gun with one in the chamber and have a spare magazine, sometimes 2, held in the holster (gun under left arm, mags under right). I would set the targets, usually depictions of criminals holding hostages, at different distances, changing the distances with each iteration.

…Okay… that might be a little bit completely batshit in a break out the white coats and hide the family pets sort of way, but maybe-

My regular means of carry was usually a horizontal shoulder holster. This type of holster provides the easiest access in time of need, because the gun rests parallel to the ground and when drawn, comes out in one motion, level and in theory, already on target.

Later on, I also used a fanny pack with a tear-away Velcro compartment. The gun rests next to your body, with a normal fanny pack as a disguise in front. Pull back the front of the pack to draw the weapon, also held parallel to the ground in its compartment, and you were again on target.

The pistol, even though it was a compact, weighed 4½ pounds, which was difficult to carry for a slim boy from the Bronx. On TV there is always a hero or a bad guy running after someone while carrying a weapon — forget about it. There is nothing more painful than running full speed with a 5 pound weight banging against your chest, sticking into your back or bouncing relentlessly against your genitalia.

I- I-

Sigh.

And bonus points in totally disproving the myth that gun nuts like you treat your murder weapons like overcompensating surrogate penises

The Bronx in the 1980s was like Beirut — a dated reference, I know, but I am of a certain age. Thousands of murders a year, and the NYPD, the finest police force in the world, had been relegated by political considerations to being outgunned and undermanned. The only time you saw them was when they were either issuing you a ticket or drawing a chalk outline around your body.

No. New York isn’t Beirut. It never was Beirut. It will never be Beirut. You surviving it as a white bred idiot being babysat by a corrupt NYPD nightsticking all the foreign types is not some act of heroic survival. Even if the Apocalypse happens and you magically get transformed into a young Kurt Russell, NEW YORK STILL WON’T BE BEIRUT!

I was careful, obsessively so — I would hit the Citibank on Morris Park Avenue on Monday morning with tens of thousands of dollars in a paper bag. I would use a #1 bag, the one you see drunkards on the street corner drinking pints of beer using as cover. It is the smallest bag and it was easy to stuff one or more down my pants with my shirt pulled over. I would use a #10 bag as a decoy, filling it as if it had money in it and carrying it in my left hand, out in front of my body. Deception is a frightened man’s tactical ally.

Pulling up to the bank, I would stop a short distance away, with clear sight lines to my destination and scope out everything and everyone, making sure I missed nothing — especially the reactions of those who noticed me watching. I would then pull away and drive around the block, still watching as I drove.

Once having gone around the block, I would stop the car in front of an available parking spot — never, however, directly in front. Getting out of the car, I always did a 360 degree turn to see what was there and what had changed since my first pass. All things being safe, I would park and then do another 360 degree turn when exiting the vehicle, looking at everything, labeling all I saw, threats, mushrooms (see Pac-Man) or morons.

Once I ascertained there was no setup, I would take the straightest line to the bank, right hand on my gun in its holster, finger on the trigger. In my left hand, I held my decoy bag. If anyone got in my way I stared them down until they moved.

It was terrifying — and I did it every day for years.

I’m framing this on a wall somewhere.

No snark could possibly top this. No amount of explaining the gap between gun nut’s heroic illusion of themselves and the bed-wetting reality could better encapsulate the point.

This little turd-bucket pretending to action roll his way down the street least the bored hordes of a civilized first world nation stole his milk money because he thinks it makes him sound like he’s John McClane?

That’s the best joke I never wrote.

Nothing better sums up all that is wrong about gun nut culture. Nothing could better demonstrate why these delusional crackpots treating deadly weapons like a 7-year-old treats a Nerf gun is something that cannot continue indefinitely. Nothing will ever better sum up why it’s time the grown-ups put away some of the sharper toys.

Yet… I managed to not kill anyone in the process.

THANK BOB! If your masturbatory fantasy wasn’t the saddest bit of Gary Stu action hero fan-fiction on the planet and had any basis in reality, it is a bonafide miracle that you didn’t manage to accidentally shoot someone in the face.

It’s not the zombie apocalypse and you’re not four plucky survivors from different walks of life trying to survive in a world gone mad. In our world, your pudgy white suburban ass is the safest mother fucker around until the day the revolution comes (well, minus the likelihood that you kill yourself or your family with your own firearms). There aren’t hordes of swarthy black people carrying only martial weapons kindly signally their attack from clean lines of sight. Hell, the likelihood that you’ll even be rudely rebuked, much less savagely attacked is pretty much nil.

In our society, unarmed black kids are way more likely to be gunned down by police or wanna be police than you are to be sneezed on by a waiter. Transgendered folks are murdered at a rate of one per month in this country alone, sometimes brutally dismembered and mutilated*. Women are routinely killed by abusive partners deciding that their guns will stop that bitch from leaving once and for all. And we all are more likely to be gunned down by you when you decide to go commit some terrorism at a public place than you are to even have the most mildest of reforms be passed against your dangerous, poorly regulated, and extremely toxic HOBBY.

And not one damn firearm is going to change all that.

So why don’t you pick up a copy of Left 4 Dead for your fantasy fulfillment while the rest of us try and move on with our damn lives, eh?


‘Shorter’ concept created by Daniel Davies and perfected by Elton Beard. Someday I’m going to go back in time and burn every bad 80s action movie, denying us of all important camp, but also saving us from an endless horde of paranoid shut-ins thinking Escape from New York was a goddamn documentary. We are aware of all Internet traditions.™

*And yet, over half of those murdered on the 2012 list were killed by firearms. Often being shot multiple times, so I guess, included in the list of superhuman perps requiring multiple gunshots to stop them are trans* people just trying to live their lives. Truly, I am the real monster to doubt the necessity of the 30-round magazine now**!

** Hey, did you feel that the links so far weren’t depressing enough? Here you go. And that’s one of the milder ones, there was a goddamn epidemic last year of ones from Sao Paolo involving dismemberment, stoning, and fire. Firearms would have saved none of them. Less bigotry, religion, and toxic machismo would have saved all of them.

329 Comments »

  1. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    January 18, 2013 at 3:29

    Ya know, I remember taking the “6 train” from Pelham Bay in the Bronx to midtown Manhattan to see the circus when I was a kid during the “Fort Apache” days and feeling totally safe. The wall-to-wall graffitti was fascinating, the train a colorful otherwhere. In all my years working in one of the toughest neighborhoods in the Bronx, I only felt freaked out once- some dude got shot five times in a drug turf “beef” about ten minutes after I walked past the eventual scene of the crime.

    Drug Turf Beef

  2. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    January 18, 2013 at 3:29

    Also, bobowens needs an excoriation.

  3. Cerberus said,

    January 18, 2013 at 3:32

    B^4-

    Shush, no spoilers.

  4. Fenwick said,

    January 18, 2013 at 3:33

    Oboy, this thread should be terrific!

    Band names from the last thread. OBS: thanx for playing.

    Juicy Juicy Mangoes
    Jihad Sleeper Cells
    Ancient Ages Ago
    Asymmetrical Warfare
    Random Places
    Cornfed Bob
    Hobo Beans

  5. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 18, 2013 at 3:39

    Dear Guns & Ammo Forum,
    I never thought this would happen to me, but…

  6. Bitter Scribe said,

    January 18, 2013 at 3:42

    Oh good God. Sheriff Idiot hired and armed child molesters and domestic abusers to “guard” schools?

    Does Arizona not have a state police force? Does the FBI not have offices in Arizona? Does the state have any grownups associated with law enforcement?

  7. smut clyde said,

    January 18, 2013 at 3:43

    PCP? Does anyone still take that stuff?

  8. bughunter said,

    January 18, 2013 at 3:52

    Ooh… looks like a good one Cerb. Unfortunately I won’t have a free hour to absorb your entire post until much later. But from the first few paragraphs, it sounds very similar to the screed I’ve been working on, but snarkier.

    You truly are the Jeddak of Snark.

  9. Chris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 4:06

    I’m sorry, I wanted to read the whole thing before commenting, but I just can’t.

    In any event, if there are six (or more) bad guys, you are obviously going to need far more than six bullets.

    You stupid fuck. If there are six or more bad guys, then in the amount of time that it takes you to shoot one bad guy, the other five are going to have a chance to shoot at you, thus rendering your high capacity magazine irrelevant, because no matter how many bullets you have, you can’t shoot six people at once.

    (Unless you’re Harrison Ford. And I know you’re not. He’s a Democrat).

    On the other hand, six people can shoot you at once.

    Look, it’s fucking simple; if there’s only one intruder, you don’t need a high capacity magazine. And if there are enough intruders that you would need a high capacity magazine to dispose of them all, then you’re fucking outnumbered and it’s time to leave.

    I would add that if you need more than six shots to get rid of one (or two) aggressors, then you’re probably a shitty enough shot that you’re better off running like hell than standing your ground.

    And I would also add that if an intruder’s coming for you in the middle of the night, the odds are very much against you waking up and getting to your gun before he has time to whack you.

  10. Fenwick said,

    January 18, 2013 at 4:07

    Cerb: Wonderful. Now I’m going back through for the links.

  11. Chris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 4:18

    This is where the five conditions of mental awareness, as taught by Front Sight, come into play.

    Actually, mental awareness is another good reason to be skeptical. That is, the discrepancy between your mental state when you’re fantasizing about how it would go, and your mental state at the time of holy shit this is actually happening ohmygod ohmygod ohmygod WHAT DO I FUCKING DO?

    Whether it’s going to a job interview, asking a girl out, or jumping off of a tall diving board, it’s generally understood that things never go exactly the way you’d planned them, and they it’s usually a lot more tense when they’re actually happening – at the very least, you usually have to do it multiple times before you get any degree of comfort with it. That goes double for something like a gunfight where it’s actually your life on the line.

    So, fine. You have a gun. Why should I expect you’ll have any idea how to use it if the time ever does come? Cops, feds and soldiers go through MONTHS of exhausting training to prepare for this shit before they’re actually allowed to go out and use guns in the real world, and hours of weekly training after that for the rest of their time in the service, and STILL make tragic mistakes on a not-irregular basis. I’m supposed to believe your monthly session of clay pigeon shooting with your friends qualifies you to behave like them? Yeah, right. When the time comes, you’ll either freeze up, shit your pants or start spraying bullets everywhere until half the street is dead (or all three).

  12. Gary Ruppert said,

    January 18, 2013 at 4:21

    The fact is guns prevent liberal anarkists from destroying the bases of our American Constitution. An armed populace will prevent the yousirper from seasing dictatorial powers. The progressive minions will be powerless to stop the onslawt of the conservative whordes.God Bless America!

  13. Chris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 4:27

    Back to Cerb –

    And it has little to do with the events themselves. It’s the reaction by the communities.

    Ditto.

    I felt the same way about the Catholic Church after the child abuse and cover up scandal came out and all they could do was mewl about how all the mean secular Protestant Satanists were trying to attack the Church. I felt the same way about the 1%ers after they drove the economy off the Grand Fucking Canyon and all they could do was mewl about the big socialist meanies who were performing an act of class warfare by asking that their taxes go from their lowest point in eighty years to their previous lowest point in eighty years. I felt the same way about the national security state after the WMD fiasco, Abu Ghraib, Haditha and all the rest of that shit came to light and all they could do was mewl about how we shouldn’t apologize for America because… because… fuck, I don’t know if they ever even got a coherent rationalization for that one.

    Ladies and gentlemen, the Party of Personal Responsibility.

    (And for the record, I’m not necessarily supportive of a British-style ban on all firearms. I’d be willing to sit down and talk about having a “well-regulated militia” model like the Constitution actually talks about. But as long as the NRA refuses any and all restrictions – or even something as innocuous as registration or waiting periods – as an act of fascism, then there’s really not much to talk about and as far as I’m concerned it’s an argument for why the entire fucking country needs to be stripped of every privately owned gun until the madness has passed).

  14. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    January 18, 2013 at 4:29

    It’s not the zombie apocalypse

    Says you.

  15. Fenwick said,

    January 18, 2013 at 4:29

    Fake Gary: I recommend fewer Miss Pellings. Thanks for playing!

  16. Bitter Scribe said,

    January 18, 2013 at 4:29

    Gary, we just can’t believe in you as long as you keep spelling words like “dictatorial” correctly.

  17. Fenwick said,

    January 18, 2013 at 4:31

    That was righteous, Chris.

  18. Chris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 4:33

    Appropriate that conservatives should bring out the Biblical wrath in me!

  19. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    January 18, 2013 at 4:33

    Gary Ruppert said,

    January 18, 2013 at 4:21 (kill)

    Oh, I thought “whordes” was a bit overdone.

  20. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 18, 2013 at 4:42

    Chris is absolutely right. I have shot guns (mostly rifles and shotguns) my whole life but I have no illusions that I would do any more than piss my pants if someone wanted to shoot at me. I sure as hell wouldnt go around talking like I could outshoot Wes Hardin.

  21. VCarlson said,

    January 18, 2013 at 4:42

    Isn’t there enough evidence out there now to declare the Fucking NRA a terrorist organization? I mean, other organizations have been decreed “terrorist” for less for totally-not-racist reasons

  22. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 18, 2013 at 4:59

    Another thing about these guys and their fantasies – most old western towns/businesses made you check your guns. Hell, thats what the gunfight at the OK corral was partly about.

    Dirty Harry only needed a six-shooter.

  23. Chris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 5:07

    Another thing about these guys and their fantasies – most old western towns/businesses made you check your guns. Hell, thats what the gunfight at the OK corral was partly about.

    Everyone who’s ever actually lived in the sort of gun-happy no-government “armed societies which are polite societies” they fantasize about has wanted to abolish it (either by regulation or outright confiscation). People who live in failed states in the third world. People who live in urban gangland in present-day America. People who actually lived in the Old West they keep fantasizing about. Everyone.

    Only the most sheltered, secure, suburban middle-class gated communities produce the sort of lunatics who actually, seriously dream about living in a Hollywood action thriller. Everyone who’s actually had to live through one knows better.

  24. Clara said,

    January 18, 2013 at 5:08

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  25. DrDick said,

    January 18, 2013 at 5:15

    Dear sweet Cthulhu! Those whackaloons who are planning The Citadel ™ are looking at land here in western Montana as well as in northern Idaho. They should fit right in with the white supremacists, militias, libertarians, and assorted other far right mouthbreathers who decided to move up here and pollute our pure mountain air and pristine wilderness.

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/2011/11/16/high-country-extremism-patriot-games/181612

  26. Anonymous said,

    January 18, 2013 at 5:28

    City walls? Inner defensive walls and towers? Weapons technology from World War One …a century ago… could easily decimate this city. Are they expecting to be invaded by the Visigoths? I would think the Visigoths would take one look at these plans and be all like, “Wait, you people are from the 21st Century. You’ve landed men on the Moon, sent probes beyond planets we’ve never heard of, built bombs that obliterate everything for miles, fly machines that rain death from the skies… and these jackholes plan on building city walls to protect them? From sorcery? Really? We brought the Romans to their knees… but we didn’t have fucking SORCERY at out disposal. These guys think their cute little city walls are going to protect them… from FUCKING SORCERY?!”

  27. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 18, 2013 at 5:30

    “fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man”

    George S. Patton

  28. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    January 18, 2013 at 5:44

    I particularly liked the genius move of having one entrance. I have said elsewhere that within the first couple of days of occupancy, we have a team sneak up and put a big old lock on the outside.

  29. Chris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 5:47

    They should fit right in with the white supremacists, militias white supremacists, libertarians white supremacists, and assorted other far right mouthbreathers white supremacists who decided to move up here

    FTFY.

  30. Nym said,

    January 18, 2013 at 6:00

    Relevant. Also.

    (Also close to 30 years old. Ah me.)

  31. Anonymous said,

    January 18, 2013 at 6:04

    Everyone who’s actually had to live through one knows better.

    This.

  32. VCarlson said,

    January 18, 2013 at 6:12

    Anonymous said,
    January 18, 2013 at 6:04

    Everyone who’s actually had to live through one knows better.

    This.

    And some of us who haven’t, but got over Heinlein by the age of majority.

  33. Magpie said,

    January 18, 2013 at 6:14

    When I had an intruder in my house in the night, I had time to get one hand out from under the blankies and turn on the bedside light – then he was pinning me down, gripping my wrist. I don’t think reaching for a gun instead of the light switch would have helped me, somehow :(

  34. VCarlson said,

    January 18, 2013 at 6:19

    When I had an intruder in my house in the night,

    I’m so sorry. I hope things did not go too badly for you.

  35. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    January 18, 2013 at 6:27

    Studying this info So i am glad to express that I have an incredibly good uncanny feeling I came upon just what I needed.

    I agree with Clara.
    ~

  36. Comrade Rutherford said,

    January 18, 2013 at 6:32

    “Is that pissing yourself fearing everything and your surroundings in the hope of literally inducing a psychotic break will somehow protect you from the infinitesimally small chance that you as a cisgendered white straight male will randomly suffer street harassment and assault?”

    Brilliant!

    “This does not mean a state of paranoia but it includes, for example, not getting too close to alleys or other positions from which you can be ambushed. It also means looking around you when you are handling your car keys in a parking lot.”

    Actually, this is how I lived in NYC for 20 years. I rode the subways home from work at all hours of day and night, I walked the streets of Manhattan and Brooklyn late at night. Never •once* was I mugged, assaulted or robbed.

    “I carried a gun in New York City for more than a decade — back when there were thousands of murders a year”

    He must mean the late ’70s, sounds like he saw ‘Death Wish’ and thought it was real. I was there from the mid-80s on. Never •once• did I ever feel like I wanted a handgun. I toyed with the idea early on, “wouldn’t it be cool if…?”, but I eventually outgrew that.

    “…a 5 pound weight bouncing relentlessly against your genitalia.”

    Ah-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA.

    “tens of thousands of dollars in a paper bag”

    Oh, he was a drug dealer! Now it makes sense.

    “If anyone got in my way I stared them down until they moved.”

    I had a weird thing happen this morning, I was walking past the bank when this guy, holding a paper bag in front of him, marched right up to me, blocking my path, then he just … stared at me. I looked at him and there was this wild look in his eye, like a maniac just looking for any reason to go nuts. I slowly eased out of his way, hoping he wouldn’t attack me. Frickin’ city is filled with crazies.

    “I managed to not kill anyone in the process.”

    No matter how badly I wanted them to…

  37. Magpie said,

    January 18, 2013 at 6:35

    VCarlson – it went OK – no harm done. I yelled, he said “Shut up and I won’t hurt you” – I yelled some more, my neighbour called out, the little twerp ran away. All over in less than a minute, I reckon.

  38. Fenwick said,

    January 18, 2013 at 6:39

    I particularly liked the genius move of having one entrance

    The idea of a walled CITY with only ONE gate is preposterous. (There should also be at least half-a-dozen postern doors(*) in a perimeter this long. At least the ‘artist’ had the sense not to set the Outer Gate and the Main Gate in a straight line. Other than that, the whole design is unworkable, indeed absurd, for ANY historical period.

    (*) Small doors in the wall, opening to the outside of a castle (or city). Posterns were often the located in or near towers, where shadows and angles help conceal them. Posterns are valuable for sending or recieving messengers; re-provisioning and reinforcement; and, in extremity, escape.

    I feel a surge of snarkitude building-up inside me about the sheer idiocy of the fortress’s ‘schizophrenic’ defensive plan: The outer defenses are ‘concentric’; inside the curtain wall, the defenses are (faux) sector-by-sector).

    Of course, the entire ‘community’ planning is absurd in the extreme, as so many other Sadlies have ably pointed out. (Again, thanx to DKW for his spectacular demographic take-down in the last thread.)

  39. jim the heretical anti-cliff lemming said,

    January 18, 2013 at 6:40

    “Hah! My Cloak Of Comforting Idiocy trumps your Bag Of Empirical Evidence! Suck it, LibMage!”

    I LOLed, because my nightly commute to work goes through a maze of bourgeois monster-homes called The Citadel … no walls or towers, let alone its own arms factory, sad to say.

    Also: mushy center-right Dems (Clinton, Obama) = pandemic of “survivalist” FREEDOM FIGHTERZ going berserk with paranoid terror … authoritarian sociopath who refers to the USC as “just a goddamned piece of paper” & treats it accordingly (Dubya) = delighted cheers & “if you’re innocent you have nothing to fear” Good-Germanism. Yeah, great job of destroying your own credibility there, man-children.

    A full clip & a round in the chamber?

    Anyone who knows guns will tell you: unless they’re literally in a combat zone, this person is a blithering dipshit, one who should never EVER be given access to anything more lethal than knitting needles. Fortunately, such patent fuckery also means that their odds of improving the gene-pool by accidentally removing themselves from it are good to excellent.

    That guy’s routine is less security than it is OCD – must’ve been quite the floor show for bystanders watching this goombah twirl like a bloody dervish every time he got out of his car. You couldn’t be more conspicuous without sparklers & an air-horn.

    At close range, a good rule of thumb is “run toward someone pulling out a gun, away from someone pulling out a knife.” Guns usually need to chamber a round & be aimed. Knives come pre-loaded & ready to kill, can’t be diverted or grabbed away without heavy-duty gloves on, & the hand aims them naturally the moment they’re drawn. Within ten meters or so, I can punch your lights out before you draw & aim a gun every time, even with a round already chambered – only the best trained experts can draw, aim & fire before the advantage of a small distance is gone – but if you’ve got a shank, I either get away fast or I get carved up. Of course if they already have the gun drawn, you either get away, get to cover or get hurt.

    As someone in the BLART industry, the remote but real possibility of someone with a gun going postal where I work lurks quietly at the back of my mind, along with the knowledge that in such a scenario I am a logical primary target. It’s illegal for me to carry ANY weapon while on duty, by the way – & judging by the overall level of sentience I’ve seen from my fellow rent-a-cops, I approve of this law wholeheartedly. The day that changes is the day my job becomes exponentially more of a magnet for power-trippy microcephalics with PENIS issues than it already is. But my real concerns are getting run over by an inattentive trucker or falling & breaking a bone/s on a night when there’s nobody there to help.

  40. Magpie said,

    January 18, 2013 at 6:45

    http://cdn-www.i-am-bored.com/media/lego-kid-bedroom.jpg

    Much more effective defence than castle walls

  41. Magpie said,

    January 18, 2013 at 6:50

    What does this Citadel thingy do about water & sewage?

  42. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    January 18, 2013 at 6:53

    A full clip & a round in the chamber?

    Anyone who knows guns will tell you: unless they’re literally in a combat zone, this person is a blithering dipshit,

    I DON’T know guns, and that seemed pretty obvious to me.

  43. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    January 18, 2013 at 6:53

    What does this Citadel thingy do about water & sewage?

    1. Poop
    2.?????
    3. Profit!!!

  44. addercap said,

    January 18, 2013 at 7:04

    Off Topic

    Fenwick,

    Here’s an old friend.

    please contact me:

    addercap@gmail.com

  45. addercap said,

    January 18, 2013 at 7:08

    What does this Citadel thingy do about water & sewage?

    I think open,communal cesspits would fit the retro city model. Can’t have any water flow under the walls though, saw what that did to Babylon, Helms Deep, etc.

  46. Fenwick said,

    January 18, 2013 at 7:10

    I carried a gun in New York City for more than a decade — back when there were thousands of murders a year

    Let me see if I understand Mr. Hyperbole. The plural of ‘thousand’–at the very least–means 2,000+ murders annually. For multiple years, no less.

    I read somewhere that an enterprising TV-reviewer once counted up the murders in Law & Order over the course of a season and compared them to the official numbers for Manhattan over that same year. Law & Order was bloodier. That’s only anecdotal, of course. Nevertheless, I’m beginning to suspect Mr. Hyperbole’s numbers were extracted anally.

  47. addercap said,

    January 18, 2013 at 7:35

    For a few years in the 90′s New York City had slightly more than 2000 murders, but in general the rate seems to have historically been something like 500-1000. This is according to a quick google search

    Mr. Hyperbole presents a very poor argument in any case.

  48. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    January 18, 2013 at 7:37

    The plural of ‘thousand’–at the very least–means 2,000+ murders annually. For multiple years, no less.

    http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm

  49. addercap said,

    January 18, 2013 at 7:39

    @Magpie

    http://cdn-www.i-am-bored.com/media/lego-kid-bedroom.jpg

    Haha, I still remember the jab of those little bricks underfoot, what sweet agony.

  50. addercap said,

    January 18, 2013 at 8:00

    I guess to play devil’s advocate, I would ask:

    What was the intent behind second amendment, as originally conceived? In other words, why was it important to grant this right in the first place?

    Is that aim no longer being served by the amendment?

  51. Major Kong said,

    January 18, 2013 at 8:28

    The 2nd Amendment was passed to prevent the need for a standing army, which could be used against the population.

    The “well regulated militia” wasn’t supposed to fight the army, it was supposed to be a substitute for the army.

  52. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    January 18, 2013 at 8:42

    City walls? Inner defensive walls and towers? Weapons technology from World War One …a century ago… could easily decimate this city. Are they expecting to be invaded by the Visigoths? I would think the Visigoths would take one look at these plans and be all like, “Wait, you people are from the 21st Century. You’ve landed men on the Moon, sent probes beyond planets we’ve never heard of, built bombs that obliterate everything for miles, fly machines that rain death from the skies… and these jackholes plan on building city walls to protect them? From sorcery? Really? We brought the Romans to their knees… but we didn’t have fucking SORCERY at out disposal. These guys think their cute little city walls are going to protect them… from FUCKING SORCERY?!”

    +2 daisy cutter

  53. Major Kong said,

    January 18, 2013 at 8:44

    +2 daisy cutter

    I saw those being dropped one night during the Gulf War. I didn’t know what they were at first. They actually make a small mushroom cloud when they go off.

  54. VCarlson said,

    January 18, 2013 at 8:46

    What was the intent behind second amendment, as originally conceived? In other words, why was it important to grant this right in the first place?

    According to Digby, it was slave uprisings.

  55. Magpie said,

    January 18, 2013 at 8:53

    I like that they specified “well regulated” militia. Otherwise you just get a bored, retired bloke in a shed, and a couple of younger blokes who turn up when they feel like it for a ciggie and a chat.

  56. Fluffy Kitties said,

    January 18, 2013 at 9:22

    What was the Founders’ intent behind the Second Amendment? It was to ratified to preserve and protect one of our most hallowed institutions.

    http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery

  57. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    January 18, 2013 at 11:42

    So, the thing I like most about this Citadel map. The original construction of these walled townships usually had some monastery or cathedral at the center. The map fails to make any statements as to churchery, but does clearly exhibit the arms manufactorium.

    It would be irresponsible not to speculate that religious services are to take place there. Fucking Moloch-worshippers.

  58. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    January 18, 2013 at 13:09

    So, the thing I like most about this Citadel map. The original construction of these walled townships usually had some monastery or cathedral at the center. The map fails to make any statements as to churchery, but does clearly exhibit the arms manufactorium.

    My favorite thing about it is that there’s only one gate- traditionally, castles had additional gates to serve as sally ports. These schmucks couldn’t even cope with a Medieval style siege (or a wildfire, for that matter), much less a conflict with the feds. If they build this, it would end up being a mass grave if the “shit hits the fan” scenario they seek to defend against ever comes to pass.

  59. DAS said,

    January 18, 2013 at 14:37

    In re what the Citidel will do about water: rainwater, distilled water and pure grain alcohol?

  60. Cole said,

    January 18, 2013 at 14:45

    Pulling up to the bank, I would stop a short distance away, with clear sight lines to my destination and scope out everything and everyone, making sure I missed nothing — especially the reactions of those who noticed me watching. I would then pull away and drive around the block, still watching as I drove.

    Once having gone around the block, I would stop the car in front of an available parking spot — never, however, directly in front. Getting out of the car, I always did a 360 degree turn to see what was there and what had changed since my first pass. All things being safe, I would park and then do another 360 degree turn when exiting the vehicle, looking at everything, labeling all I saw, threats, mushrooms (see Pac-Man) or morons.

    So, he regularly acted like an armed robber casing a bank, huh? Too bad there wasn’t another asshole like him sitting on the bench casing him. We could have had two less assholes in the world (except for all the innocent While Level folks shot by the 29 rounds that didn’t find their mark).

  61. CRA said,

    January 18, 2013 at 14:48

    So, the thing I like most about this Citadel map. The original construction of these walled townships usually had some monastery or cathedral at the center.

    The Firearms Museum is very near the center of town. Oddly, it’s smaller than the accompanying Reflecting Pool. Maybe the museum is meant to be many stories tall.

  62. Cole said,

    January 18, 2013 at 15:10

    Often the folks you guys pull to ridicule are extreme examples of wing-nuttery, whom I assume (possibly erroneously) that even other wingnuts are a bit embarrassed to associate with, but unfortunately this guy sounds pretty much like every single fucking gun person I have ever met.

  63. Cole said,

    January 18, 2013 at 15:20

    I’m also wondering why the guy needed a “decoy bag” of money to hold “out in front of his body.”

    Simply hiding his drug cash inside his jacket wasn’t going to attract the kind of attention he was hoping for, I suppose.

    And, yet, despite all his carefully laid plans, he never got the shoot out he hoped for.

  64. Caliph Garrett said,

    January 18, 2013 at 15:27

    All this talk of fortified redoubts, and not one mention of ye olde shit-moat?

  65. El Manquécito said,

    January 18, 2013 at 16:04

    The caliph brings some needed perspective.

  66. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 18, 2013 at 16:25

    What does this Citadel thingy do about water & sewage?

    Remember that the Citadel is going to be an isolated community reliant on the plebs working the fields outside the walls. And all that agriculture is supposed to happen in the mountains of NW Dakota.

    Night soil.

  67. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 18, 2013 at 16:28

    Also too, the walls are purely symbolic. From the FAQ:

    The Citadel is not designed to withstand any direct .Mil or .Gov attack. Nor is the Citadel, in any manner, attempting to provoke any government entity.

    Because liberals are government are so wasteful with precious dollars.

  68. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 18, 2013 at 16:39

    Idaho not Dakota.

  69. tigris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 16:39

    especially the reactions of those who noticed me watching …. I would park and then do another 360 degree turn when exiting the vehicle

    They were wondering when you’d burst out into song.

    The park, drive around block, park again, get out, Julie Andrews swirl would guarantee you a couple gawkers.

  70. tigris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 16:41

    All this talk of fortified redoubts, and not one mention of ye olde shit-moat?

    Ok, we still don’t know what they’re going to do about water.

  71. Caliph Garrett said,

    January 18, 2013 at 16:43

    Reflecting pool

    “What do you think YOU’RE looking at, asshole? Yeah, I’m talking to you! Get outta here right now or I let my friend Smith N. Wesson do the talking!”

  72. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 18, 2013 at 16:54

    That said – still total fail. The concept is “self-sufficiency in terms of food, water and energy”. There’s no water tower or reservoir. Sandpoint, ND which is a similarly sized (population wise) town in the area has a capacity of 5-8 million gallon per day in water treatment (and without having to support a substantial agricultural sector). Unless the plan includes a fairly substantial water treatment plant just outside the Citadel’s walls, “self-sufficiency” for water is lol-not even close.

    What are they going to do for heat and electricity? Most sensible is a co-generation plant – but they haven’t laid out enough space to put an appropriately sized facility in. Also, how do they intend on securing their natural gas supply? There’s no fuel storage, nor is it included in their “Citadel Features” list. Maybe they’ll use one of John Galt’s magic energy machines.

    On to food self-sufficiency. LOL. NW Idaho. In the mountains. Growing season there is like June to August. They’re going to need food stores that’ll hold out for nine or ten months. The amount of land required to grow that much food is way more than they’re thinking about. In the lowest population – highest land scenario, it’s 10 acres per person – which might work if they weren’t working with a 60 day growing season. Or trying to do it in the frigging mountains.

    Also, they talk about being prepared for natural disasters like hurricanes (in NW Idaho!). I laughed that they’d be much more likely to have to deal with drought – and they have done sweet fuck all to address that. More lol-tastically, the wouldn’t even survive out the first winter. Look at all of those interior walls and choke points. How the hell are they going to clear the snow? FFS, their ideal of Rightful Liberty prepared for all possible circumstances did not consider that it might snow. In northern fucking Idaho.

  73. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 18, 2013 at 16:56

    Oh wait, I figured it out. They’re going to shoot the snow with assault rifles!

  74. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 18, 2013 at 17:05

    I figured out the sewage problem too. Why do they need a wastewater treatment plant when they can just shoot stuff with assault rifles?

  75. El Manquécito said,

    January 18, 2013 at 17:06

    DKW has already put more thought into the concept than the original grifter.

  76. Arakasi said,

    January 18, 2013 at 17:12

    No discussion of these nuts is complete without referencing the dreaded Mall Ninja.
    which includes the great response:

    “‘If Plan A is to take multiple .338 shots to the back, you really need to come up with a Plan B.”

    When I lived outside of Chicago, a friend of mine was on the Waukegan police force. He told me once that the most most dangerous scenario that he and his collegues had to deal with involved an assailant armed with a knife about 20-30 feet away. In the time it takes to assess the situation, draw his weapon, aim, and fire; someone can cover 30 feet or so from a standing start.

    (Mythbusters covered this last year, and came up with a distance of about 25 feet, but they were expecting an attack)

    Pretty much what this means is that if someone means to do you harm, then the only way you can stop them is to fire before they reveal themselves as a threat. Which means Gansert really should have been shooting everyone between himself and the bank door in order to be as safe as he thought he was.

    I hope I didn’t just give him any ideas.

    Did anyone else notice that he carried the money in his pants? I bet he was really popular with all the bank tellers when he undid his belt in order to make a deposit

  77. animus said,

    January 18, 2013 at 17:13

    The Citadel is a wonderful idea. Assuming that it’s a scam, of course. If it’s meant to actually get built, and to hold off anything more than a bunch of half-naked extras on horseback with .303s, then it’s one of the worst ideas ever. But as a way of liberating money from gun nuts, it’s brilliant.

  78. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 18, 2013 at 17:16

    DKW has already put more thought into the concept than the original grifter.

    Well, I suspect we all have. But I’m beating it to death because I’m compulsive that way.

    Also, that guy with the five pound weight banging against his genitalia? He was running around with a loosely secured pistol with a live round in the chamber?!

  79. Alex said,

    January 18, 2013 at 17:20

    Let’s not lose sight of the fact that the “Citadel” is nothing but a fucking grift, designed not to build any actual guntopia, but merely to separate a bunch of gun idolator morons from their feeble life’s savings. Trebuchets will never be required to level it because it will never be built.

  80. N__B said,

    January 18, 2013 at 17:43

    Night soil.

    “Ah, the soil of the night! What beautiful music it makes.”

  81. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 18, 2013 at 17:43

    Whoa. Here are some moar deets on teh homes.

    zomg. Security is so important that they’re equipping individual houses with generators and water tanks. The reason none of this stuff is on the map is because each house has it’s own little bit of Citadel paranoia.

    It’s 134 houses inside the walls. That’s 134 diesel generators to provide back-up electricity. A grid outage isn’t going to affect them because they’ll all have died from the poor air quality. Also too, composting toilets. It’s totally going to be night soil!

    Food self-sufficiency is provided by a “one year supply” of probably canned dry goods. I guess the idea is that they can use the year to figure out how to feed themselves after the collapse of civilization.

  82. tigris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 17:44

    Honestly it looks more like a cult compound than anything…

  83. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 18, 2013 at 17:53

    I’ve changed my mind. Any settlement willing to close the loop by incorporating night soil in their food self-sufficiency plans is brilliant and well thought out. This plan is so totally going to work!

    But what about all the disease and parasites that can thrive in human excrement? Well they’ll all be living in Citadels THEY CAN SHOOT THEM DISEASE VECTOR WHATSITS WITH ASSAULT RIFLES!

  84. histrogeek said,

    January 18, 2013 at 18:15

    They are so delusional. I recall one on-line argument of gun-nuts versus pacifists. It was an endless game of hypothetical scenario one-upsmanship at least from the gun-nuts. At some point, one of the nuts mocked a paci, “Suppose some guy comes to your house and demands your stuff. Are you just going to give it to them?” At which point I got so fed up that I waded in with the clear rejoinder, “How often does that happen exactly? I’ve lived in dicey neighborhoods for years and I’ve never even met someone who had that happen to them.”

  85. N__B said,

    January 18, 2013 at 18:28

    “Suppose some guy comes to your house and demands your stuff.”

    In the pr0n I’ve seen, it’s usually a guy coming to the door saying he wants to give you stuff.

  86. Whale Chowder said,

    January 18, 2013 at 18:46

    You’ll get my fleshlight when you pry it from my cold, dead…uh, fingers.

  87. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    January 18, 2013 at 18:48

    Also, the answer is “yes, I give them my stuff. It’s fucking stuff you property-obsessing weirdo.”

  88. VCarlson said,

    January 18, 2013 at 18:51

    Following the Citadel housing link, I see that homes outside the walls can be on up to 40 acres, but to “ensure good neighbors,” each home must have a privacy fence. I just hope the fencing doesn’t have to be on the perimeter of the property. Regular fencing is expensive enough. Privacy fencing on 40 acres would be prohibitive.

    And the walls are purely symbolic, but they’re offering 300sf bolt holes (w/communal cooking & bathing) inside those symbols.

  89. VCarlson said,

    January 18, 2013 at 18:55

    And I’d had a response to the gun nut wanting my property similar to St. Trotsky’s in my earlier post, eaten when my browser closed on me, as it does sometimes. Of course, I would also have called 911.

  90. VCarlson said,

    January 18, 2013 at 19:02

    I figured out the sewage problem too. Why do they need a wastewater treatment plant when they can just shoot stuff with assault rifles?

    That reminds me of some early questions wrt Star Trek (when it was the *only* series) regarding toilets, as none were even hinted at on the show. One proposed solution was “carefully aimed phasers.”

  91. tigris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 19:22

    That reminds me of some early questions wrt Star Trek (when it was the *only* series) regarding toilets, as none were even hinted at on the show. One proposed solution was “carefully aimed phasers.”

    Soylent Brown is poople!

  92. Interrobang said,

    January 18, 2013 at 19:24

    Following the Citadel housing link, I see that homes outside the walls can be on up to 40 acres

    Does that come with a free mule, or do they have to provide their own?

  93. Helmut Monotreme said,

    January 18, 2013 at 19:41

    Helmut’s Handy guide to the particular stupidity of the wingnut fantasy camp known as the citadel.
    The Citadel is supposed to be a defensible independent retreat manned by a hardy population of well armed survivalists. *cough* Masada *cough*. Almost every part of that decription will prove to be beyond the reach of the masterminds of this particular real estate scam.

    In the post gunpowder age, the neo-feudal model of a town encircled by a concrete or stone wall makes no more military sense than the Disneyland castle. Historically, forts were built to protect important things that couldn’t move, roads, bridges, rivers, harbors, etc. The reatreat style fortress, like the Alamut or Masada, have the critical weakness of not having any further place to retreat to, or be reinforced from.

    If they were deadly serious about building a safe retreat from all possible scenarios, their citadel would look a lot more like Cheyenne Mountain or Raven Rock and a little less like an overgrown pillow fort.

    There are unused mines and missile silos all over this country. A search for underground storage on Google will bring back hundreds of useful results. Any one of them would make a better citadel than what they are proposing. They should just admit they want to build a castle and have other people pay for it.

  94. Helmut Monotreme said,

    January 18, 2013 at 19:42

    Sorry about the Handy guide thing at the front, I was going to write a longer piece, but many of my points have already been covered.

  95. bbkf said,

    January 18, 2013 at 19:53

    What does this Citadel thingy do about water & sewage?

    see, this is where delving deep into the comments in the citadel blog section pays off!

    wanna know what they are going to do for water?

    there are multiple streams in the area…that’s honest to bob as far as they got with THAT planning…but any suggestions and/or improvements are welcome!

  96. Helmut Monotreme said,

    January 18, 2013 at 19:55

    What are they afraid of?
    Zombies? their citadel might work, provided none of the infected will be inside the gates (Pro tip: the infected will be inside the gates)
    The feds? Their citadel wouldn’t even last as long as Waco
    The liberals? most of us are patient enough to watch their compound self destruct.
    The non lily white, non-evangelical, non-gun obsessed? you don’t have to build a compound, the states of Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana already exist.
    The social expectation to keep your gun obsession to yourself and like minded loons well away from civil society? maybe.

  97. JohnR said,

    January 18, 2013 at 19:57

    “Ok, we still don’t know what they’re going to do about water.”

    Of course we do – I refer you to noted philosopher and ADAA hero “Patches” O’Houlihan: “Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? No! But I do it anyway, ’cause it’s sterile and I like the taste.”

    Also, too, all this stuff about one entrance and the place turning into a mass grave if the urine hit the fan – so what’s the problem?

  98. bbkf said,

    January 18, 2013 at 20:01

    ahem…

  99. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    January 18, 2013 at 20:32

    And I’d had a response to the gun nut wanting my property similar to St. Trotsky’s in my earlier post, eaten when my browser closed on me, as it does sometimes. Of course, I would also have called 911.

    I’ve gotten into those kind of debates a lot over the years, probably because I very much am a pacifist, and I find they kind of get thrown off when your answers to their hypothetical can-I-kill-them-now questions is, “no, not really.” The property questions are easy enough, but if you really want to see them get bogged down in, “why aren’t you taking this seriously?!”, answer their follow-up of, “okay a guy comes up to you and threatens to kill you unless you kill him” (because it always comes down to that), tell them that “well, I die of course. And?”

    For as much as their lot loves to scream about the incoming martyrdom they’ve got comin any day now, they don’t seem to grasp people willing to die for their beliefs instead of kill for them.

  100. VCarlson said,

    January 18, 2013 at 20:48

    tell them that “well, I die of course. And?”

    Bingo. And should that extremely unlikely hypothetical ever come to pass, I make no guarantees about how dignified I might be. I’d probably cry (my reaction to strong emotion), I might scream, I might flinch or cower, I might pee myself. I won’t care. I’ll either be dead or alive at the end of it (shithead could be bluffing), so either it wouldn’t matter (being dead) or I’d be so relieved it wouldn’t matter.

  101. Whale Chowder said,

    January 18, 2013 at 20:50

    One of my former cow-orkers put up one of those NRA “We are the militia!” pictures on FB. I’ve been taunting him ever since: “You’re not the “militia,” you’re a bunch of LARPers.”

    He responded with some bullshit about “The militia of the United states consists of every able-bodied male over 17 blah blah “organized” blah blah “unorganized” blah blah…” I emphasized the “unorganized” part and laughed at him.

    Good times.

    Meanwhile, my moderately center-right brother sent out an email to select family and friends supporting the “Stand By Obama on Gun Control” program. This strikes me as a sort of tipping point. Maybe things are going to move this time.

  102. Helmut Monotreme said,

    January 18, 2013 at 20:52

    they don’t seem to grasp people willing to die for their beliefs instead of kill for them.

    which is odd given how many people die as a direct consequence of the beliefs of 2nd Amendment absolutists.

  103. gocart mozart said,

    January 18, 2013 at 20:57

    http://wh.gov/mN2n
    Please sign my petition.

    sign an executive order providing free comprehensive mental health services to the entire republican house caucus.

    A functioning democracy require a responsible opposition party in which the majority of its members are not clinically insane. To help rectify our current siuation, I propose that that every possible thing be done to ensure that congressional republicans recieve the exstensive mental health services they sorely need.

  104. Chris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 21:02

    They are so delusional. I recall one on-line argument of gun-nuts versus pacifists. It was an endless game of hypothetical scenario one-upsmanship at least from the gun-nuts. At some point, one of the nuts mocked a paci, “Suppose some guy comes to your house and demands your stuff. Are you just going to give it to them?” At which point I got so fed up that I waded in with the clear rejoinder, “How often does that happen exactly? I’ve lived in dicey neighborhoods for years and I’ve never even met someone who had that happen to them.”

    I admit I’ve never been in this kind of situation, but seriously – is there something wrong with mace, pepper spray or tasers? I mean, I’m not even asking you to give the guy your shit, but they have invented some intermediate steps between “surrender” and “shoot to kill.”

  105. bbkf said,

    January 18, 2013 at 21:04

    will no one think of the sheep?!?!

  106. Chris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 21:08

    If they were deadly serious about building a safe retreat from all possible scenarios, their citadel would look a lot more like Cheyenne Mountain or Raven Rock and a little less like an overgrown pillow fort.

    They’re not thinking in terms of what’s practical, they’re thinking in terms of what fits gun nerd fantasies. Fan servicing as it were.

    I was starting to write “kinda like if a bored, rich Trekkie built himself a house that looked like the bridge of the Enterprise,” but that’s not quite right because even a guy like that would be doing it just for entertainment. These people actually think this would work in the real world. It’s more like if the bored rich Trekkie actually built a life-sized Enterprise and actually expected it to be a fully functional spacecraft because hey, it worked on TV!

  107. Pupienus Maximus said,

    January 18, 2013 at 21:08

    Apologies if it’s already been said, Jon Chait shreds Bobo.

  108. Chris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 21:10

    A search for underground storage on Google will bring back hundreds of useful results.

    Screw Google, try Cracked.com!

    6 Abandoned Places That Will Make Awesome Supervillain Lairs.

    6 Incredible Real-World Supervillain Lairs.

    Okay, it’s not necessarily more practical than the Citadel, but it’s so much cooler.

  109. tigris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 21:10

    “okay a guy comes up to you and threatens to kill you unless you kill him” (because it always comes down to that), tell them that “well, I die of course. And?”

    Is this guy waiting for them to give an answer before he shoots? Because I’d guess “I die of course” would be the way it worked out for a lot of folks even if they’d “choose” otherwise.

  110. Jill said,

    January 18, 2013 at 21:18

    His outside the bank routine had me picturing Heinz Doofenshmirtz.

    But if you click over you get the story where he stopped an armed robbery by quoting one-liners from 1970′s police shows.

  111. bbkf said,

    January 18, 2013 at 21:20

    If they were deadly serious about building a safe retreat from all possible scenarios, their citadel would look a lot more like Cheyenne Mountain or Raven Rock and a little less like an overgrown pillow fort.

    what i find most discomfiting is that there are obviously levels of stupidity among the gunnutters/militia/patriot/prepper ranks…and the citadel grifters are aiming at the stupidest among them…which is clear from this comment thread: a nutter with even a scintilla of intelligence would be able to see that a: the citadel as conceptually drawn sucks balls hard and, b: they haven’t figured out the basics of water and sewage…if a commentariat such as sadly can i.d. the monumental fail potential with this grift, that’s gotta mean the real hardcore nutters know its a grift and would opt for something like cheyenne mountain or raven rock…

    which begs the question: which one is scarier? patriot-nutters with some intelligence or the really, really stupid ones that are falling for this grift?

  112. Marion in Savannah said,

    January 18, 2013 at 21:30

    Those folks have spent WAAAAAY too much time watching “Doomsday Preppers.”

  113. Helmut Monotreme said,

    January 18, 2013 at 21:38

    Seriously, if you want to build and live in a castle, say so and market it to every LARP-playing huzzah!-saying nerd in the country. Advertise at every ren-faire and you might even get enough customers to get your property developed and sold and your castle built.

  114. bbkf said,

    January 18, 2013 at 21:54

    Seriously, if you want to build and live in a castle, say so and market it to every LARP-playing huzzah!-saying nerd in the country. Advertise at every ren-faire and you might even get enough customers to get your property developed and sold and your castle built.

    i really don’t think the citadel grifters have any intention of building…the comment section, which is very loosely moderated is full of non-answers from them along the lines of, ‘well, we’re still planning…we hope to…remember, this is just planning right now…’

    this thing is going to disintegrate…they’ll either come up with a new/better grift, the idiots who’ve invested already will either forget about it or fall for the next shiny thing…the only sad thing is that it SHOULD be built, as someone pointed out above because then at least we’d know where these nutjobs are and darwinism would cull them pretty quickly…

  115. bbkf said,

    January 18, 2013 at 21:55

    Seriously, if you want to build and live in a castle, say so and market it to every LARP-playing huzzah!-saying nerd in the country. Advertise at every ren-faire and you might even get enough customers to get your property developed and sold and your castle built.

    hmmm…i wonder if they’ve approached that one koch brother with their brilliant and well executed sales pitch?

  116. smut clyde said,

    January 18, 2013 at 22:19

    more like if the bored rich Trekkie actually built a life-sized Enterprise and actually expected it to be a fully functional spacecraft because hey, it worked on TV!

    I saw a documentary called “Galaxy Quest” where that’s EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.

  117. VCarlson said,

    January 18, 2013 at 22:29

    Dammit, I’m going to have to start writing my posts in notes, so I don’t lose so many when my browser closes on me. 

    Should the giant pillow fort/Disneyland Castle ever get built, it’s obvious the developer is passing as many costs on to the shills lessees as possible. No power grid, just provide a (no doubt as cheap as he can find) generator. Aside from the air quality issues mentioned earlier, I’m sure the resident would bear the costs of maintaining & fueling the generator. No water and sewer, but 2,500 gallon reservoirs (per person?) per unit – how to maintain & fill it, never mind control algae; and composting toilets (waste removal? Honey wagons?). What about “gray water,” the runoff from sinks and bathing?

    How about trash removal? Vermin control for the neighbors of the inevitable asshole(s) who refuse to remove their trash? We already know the policing will be done by people living out their oater fantasies. How ’bout body removal, then? Other clean up resulting from death by gunfire?

    Then there are the questions about living space. How much of the square footage, starting at 600sf, as I recall (not counting the 300sf dorm rooms here), will be eaten up by the water storage tank, composting toilet, year’s supply per person of food, weaponry and ammunition storage (though somehow, I suspect gun safes are anathema to this crowd)?

  118. Chris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 22:41

    VCarlson said,
    January 18, 2013 at 22:29

    My goodness, I am SO seriously wanting this thing to happen. Even though it’s almost certainly a scam.

  119. Helmut Monotreme said,

    January 18, 2013 at 22:41

    Then there are the questions about living space. How much of the square footage, starting at 600sf, as I recall (not counting the 300sf dorm rooms here), will be eaten up by the water storage tank, composting toilet, year’s supply per person of food, weaponry and ammunition storage (though somehow, I suspect gun safes are anathema to this crowd)?

    It won’t get that far. If they get enough suckers to get property purchased and if they get enough suckers to break ground, and if the State of Idaho lets them incorporate this disaster they’ll only build a few units before the lawsuits begin.

    Also who the fuck wants to live inside the same cement or stone enclosed space as a weapons factory and a couple hundred private armories? One stray spark on the fourth of July and the entire town will be a smoking crater.

  120. Helmut Monotreme said,

    January 18, 2013 at 22:51

    In these guys defense, guntopia in Idaho or Glen Beck’s freedomstan in Texas have a lot bigger chance than that mega-crusie ship libertarian fantasy that keeps popping up every few years.

  121. That Girl said,

    January 18, 2013 at 22:56

    “Condition Yellow” is the most unintentionally funny wingnut thing since “teabaggers.”

    Also, I am horrified by “you need more than 6 bullets if there are 6 bad guys” from the standpoint that this guy is honestly saying, “if you’re attacked, you should kill EVERYONE.” This is not about self-defense. This is about wanting to kill people (as Cerberus points out).

    Why don’t these heroes join the military? Two reasons, probably. One, they are in a perpetual state of “condition yellow” and scared to death of the idea of actually being in a gun fight with anyone. Two, they probably wouldn’t be medically (psychologically) cleared for combat.

  122. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:01

    Then there are the questions about living space. How much of the square footage, starting at 600sf, as I recall (not counting the 300sf dorm rooms here), will be eaten up by the water storage tank, composting toilet, year’s supply per person of food, weaponry and ammunition storage (though somehow, I suspect gun safes are anathema to this crowd)?

    2,500 gallons is 334 cubic feet – but the tank takes space too, call it 360. At eight feet high, this is 45 square feet. Since it’s Idaho where temperatures drop well below freezing, it must be inside or heated.

    The market catering to survivalists is pretty well developed. There are plenty of Gizoogle hits for “1 year emergency food supply kits”[1] – I found one that claimed theirs fit into 86 #10 cans (at a gallon each). These obviously cannot be packed super densely – 78% is the theoretical maximum. Assuming shelving so that you can access more than just the one can on top of the pile, this is going to be more than 100 gallons of volume. Per person. Call it 300 gallons total for 2 adults. Assuming that these shelves only go 6 feet high, this is roughly 10 square feet of food storage.

    So almost 10% of the 600 square foot accomodations would be taken up with food and water. And then a diesel tank for the generator. The generator itself would probably be outside the building.

    Note – it looks like there will be electrical service provided – there’s a Power building in the map. The generators are probably intended as back-up units in case of grid outage.

    [1] At 1,100 calories per day – essentially a starvation diet. I guess the idea is that you’re supposed to supplement with whatever you can forage.

  123. Major Kong said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:09

    “you need more than 6 bullets if there are 6 bad guys”

    If six was good enough for Dirty Harry it’s good enough for me.

  124. bbkf said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:13

    Also, I am horrified by “you need more than 6 bullets if there are 6 bad guys” from the standpoint that this guy is honestly saying, “if you’re attacked, you should kill EVERYONE.” This is not about self-defense. This is about wanting to kill people (as Cerberus points out).

    right? and 9 times out of 10 when you hear these effers spouting off it’s ALWAYS about their stuff…personally, i don’t have any stuff that’s worth getting killed or killing over…but apparently some people value their stuff preeeeeetty highly…

    also, too…didn’t aurora and earlier that mild kerfuffle in nyc prove that civilians who are packing unintentionally injure and/or kill innocent bystanders because they don’t know what they fuck to do in the case of a mass shooting?

  125. That Girl said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:16

    “also, too…didn’t aurora and earlier that mild kerfuffle in nyc prove that civilians who are packing unintentionally injure and/or kill innocent bystanders because they don’t know what they fuck to do in the case of a mass shooting?”

    I was just thinking that, if disease, starvation and thirst don’t kill these people, they’re likely to die off from accidental shootings or because they get in a massive firefight over the last can of Hormel’s chili.

  126. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:19

    ,,,personally, i don’t have any stuff that’s worth getting killed or killing over,,,

    Not even a priceless, very rare, one-of-a-kind porcelain poodle?

  127. Chris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:27

    I was just thinking that, if disease, starvation and thirst don’t kill these people, they’re likely to die off from accidental shootings or because they get in a massive firefight over the last can of Hormel’s chili.

    Funny; I was just thinking that this citadel would make for a FANTASTIC remake of “The Monsters Are Due On Maple Street.”

  128. smut clyde said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:28

    How the hell are they going to clear the snow?

    Lots of cute playful kitties.

  129. bbkf said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:34

    zomfg…ol’ bill gansert is even crazier than cerb led us to believe…here’s the rest of his story and holy shit…this man is psychotic:

    I will relate only one tale of the gun.

    I was working 7 days a week, a minimum of 12 to 14 hours each day, running my small empire of two grocery stores. I would start early, before 7 AM and work until 2 AM in the morning. During the day, I would go home for an hour or two to sleep, since I didn’t sleep at night, choosing that time for the nonstop party. I became used to going home between 10 PM and Midnight, coming back to close the one store at 1 AM and the other at 2 AM.

    Somewhere in the process of my predictability, two men started coming into my main store. They were easily identifiable, one big guy, 6′ 7″ at least, with a smaller accomplice. They came in every Wednesday night for 3 weeks in a row. They would stay perhaps 15 minutes in the back of the store, watching everything, and then leave without buying anything. My man at the counter said he thought the big guy had a gun in his belt, but he wasn’t sure.

    Coming in on the same day every week and at the same time, told me they were casing the place. The fact that they lingered, told me they were checking to see, not only how much money was coming in, but whether or not any police stopped in on a regular basis. The fact that they didn’t buy anything said they weren’t worried about any opposition and didn’t care if anyone knew their plan. After all, at the time, only the police and the criminals had guns.

    On the third Wednesday, I rushed to the store, but missed them. On the fourth Wednesday, I was waiting for them.

    I knew it was them the second they walked through the door. You can’t miss a giant. I stepped up, and noticing me, the big guy went for his gun, which was tucked into the waistband of his pants. I was already drawing mine.
    I grabbed the smaller man by the collar and put my Beretta to his head as the big man ran down the aisle, his gun drawn. I yelled for the customer who stood frozen at the counter to leave, and I told my two workers to get down.

    Using the one robber — remarkably docile with a gun to his head — as a shield, I tried to see where the big guy went. He was at the end of the aisle, hiding behind the rack.

    I was terrified.

    I knew I needed to be aggressive or this would end badly — it was already going badly.

    “If you come out with anything but you d$@k in your hands and your buddy is the first to get it.”

    The man I held started to sob. I shook him so he would stand still.

    “Then I’m going to kill you and send what’s left of you to your mother in a paper bag.”

    The sobbing grew louder as I pressed the muzzle of the gun harder into the back of the man’s head.

    “And then, I promise you, I will find everything you love and I will kill it. I will hunt them down and I will kill them. Do you hear me?”

    I could hear the big guy in the back starting to cry.

    I don’t remember what he said, but the next few minutes were taken up by him begging.

    I told him to put his gun down and come up front, which he did. I tried to hold the two of them while waiting for the police, while the big guy begged to be let go.

    Eventually — it seemed like an eternity, but was probable only minutes — I started to lose confidence in my ability to control the situation. I had the one assailant in hand, with a gun to his head, but the other was just standing there pleading to be let go. Since he was no longer armed, and I was no longer in mortal peril, if they chose to jump me, they actually had the advantage. I was not going to shoot. You are only allowed to use deadly force when you fear for your life, and I no longer feared for my life.

    I finally told the big guy to go, which sobbing like a baby, he did. I held the other one for the police.

    The “paper bag” threat was paraphrasing Ed Asner in an episode of Police Story from the 1970s. The “I will find everything you love and kill it” was paraphrasing Dennis Farina in an episode of Crime Story from the 1980s. “Your buddy is the first to get it” was all me. I practiced for these things, and not only was ready with the weapon, but the rhetoric as well.

    When my son was born and his mother wanted to leave, I sold a controlling interest in my stores and let her go, while keeping him. I concentrated on being a father. I grew up without one and was determined that my son would not be burdened so.

    When he went to school, I went to school with him — in fact, becoming what was known as the “class father.” I spent some part of every day in school with him and I went on every school trip. There were plenty of single parents, but I was the only single father with a child. For some of the children, I was the only man they ever saw. I was pleased to serve that purpose and those in power at the school let me.

    On school trips, I was security and play — women just don’t roughhouse the way men do. The teachers were perfectly happy to let me step between the children and anyone who got too close, and I was grateful for the opportunity to be the man who had been missing from my childhood — not only for my son, but for any of the other children.

    The thing is that during that entire period from kindergarten through the 4th grade I carried my gun. I was a true ‘concealed carry’ man. No one knew, I didn’t tell anyone. I was not the kind of person who wanted everyone to know he was armed. There are girls I dated who didn’t know I carried a gun.

    …And, don’t get me wrong. I am not a brave man. Fear is healthy; it’s always the best swimmers who drown. I am, and have always been, a coward, but in life you do what you have to do.

    If I had been at Sandy Hook and armed, as I had been in my son’s school so many times, I would have done what Morgan Freeman advised in Nurse Betty, and put “three in the head,” because then “you know [he's] dead.”

    i cannot for the life of me imagine why his wife wanted to leave…

  130. That Girl said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:35

    Holy crap, Chris. That is PERFECT.

  131. bbkf said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:35

    Not even a priceless, very rare, one-of-a-kind porcelain poodle?

    haha…that is pretty good…apparently we all need to conceal and carry ppgs…

  132. That Girl said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:38

    Gansert probably made that whole story up. The saddest/creepiest part is his lie including, “I practiced the rhetoric I would use” as if that makes him sound anything other than the lamest, most pathetic loser on the planet.

    I’m surprised his wife let him keep the kid.

  133. smut clyde said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:40

    When [...] his mother wanted to leave, I [...] let her go

    No further comment necessary.

  134. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:43

    Lots of cute playful kitties.

    omg. I am signing up now.

  135. bbkf said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:46

    I’m surprised his wife let him keep the kid.

    i’m guessing she didn’t really have a choice…and holy tittyfucking shit…i started reading the comments over there…here’s the themes:

    1. isn’t it nice to read about men being men?
    2. men can’t be men anymore because women want to be men
    3. a man’s role is to protect women, and a woman’s role is to be protected and to support her man while being dominated
    4. it ain’t natural for women to be aggressive
    5. oooooh squeal!!! i loves myself a big strong man to protect me!!!*

    all of this is supplemented with much gun pron…

    *and that dumb twunt readily admitted that she just was not ‘lucky’ in love, but she has two daughters who lover her unconditionally and she is blessed…

  136. bbkf said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:47

    lover

    and that’s an unfortunate typo…

  137. Chris said,

    January 18, 2013 at 23:48

    running my small empire of two grocery stores.

    With apologies for the stereotyping, what IS it with Republicans and small businessmen?

  138. Helmut Monotreme said,

    January 19, 2013 at 0:20

    With apologies for the stereotyping, what IS it with Republicans and small businessmen?

    I think its because they are terrible small businessmen or average small businessmen in a terrible economy. Since they aren’t out there inventing brand new industries, the only way they can increase their income is to grow their business either by increasing their volume or opening new branches. But, they aren’t good businessmen so they can’t delegate for shit, or they don’t spend near enough on advertising, or R&D or training for their employees. Year after year passes and their empire building dreams seems less and less possible and they blame that on everyone but themselves. So they blame their not being even richer on the taxes they have to pay and the moochers who want a living wage.

  139. Major Kong said,

    January 19, 2013 at 0:27

    I will relate only one tale of the gun.

    I read this and my bullshit-meter went off the scale.

  140. Whale Chowder said,

    January 19, 2013 at 0:34

    The teachers were perfectly happy to let me step between the children and anyone who got too close…

    Yeah, the creepy guy that stares you down while you’re minding your own business in the park? That’s this guy.

    Also and too: daddy issues much?

  141. bbkf said,

    January 19, 2013 at 0:38

    So they blame their not being even richer on the taxes they have to pay and the moochers who want a living wage.

    also, too…ten will get you twenty that their empires are located in neighborhoods that are mostly blah or welfare princesses…which just pisses them off more…

    I read this and my bullshit-meter went off the scale.

    ooh, indeed! as soon as i read it, i knew i had to see what psychopathy was next…

  142. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    January 19, 2013 at 0:42

    That guy’s routine is less security than it is OCD – must’ve been quite the floor show for bystanders watching this goombah twirl like a bloody dervish every time he got out of his car. You couldn’t be more conspicuous without sparklers & an air-horn.

    I was thinking exactly that. There were probably completely normal-looking people walking into the bank along with him going “WTF is it with that nutter?”.

    I read this and my bullshit-meter went off the scale.

    Indeed. I bet he had a job as a clerk at a 7-11 in suburbia for about two weeks in his early twenties. A black man came in once. Although scared, our protagonist managed to glare at him slightly when he gave him his change back, and totally didn’t say “have a nice day” like corporate said he had to!

  143. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    January 19, 2013 at 0:43

    Left accidentally unstated in that comment — I guarantee that the normal-looking people walking into the bank with him were carrying more money. That is if the bank thing isn’t utter bullshit, of course. Which it is.

  144. Major Kong said,

    January 19, 2013 at 0:51

    How much you want to bet his guy spends hours in front of a mirror practicing his “Go ahead……make…..my……day” lines?

  145. Major Kong said,

    January 19, 2013 at 0:52

    “Dear American Rifleman. I never thought this would happen to me, but….”

  146. CRA said,

    January 19, 2013 at 1:01

    With apologies for the stereotyping, what IS it with Republicans and small businessmen?

    I haven’t read the thread, so I don’t know what prompted you to ask, but …

    What Helmut said. Workaday life is tough for small businesspeople. The republican party is for them a type of sympathetic hooker. He/she never points out their flaws, acts impressed with everything they say, the whole job. Obviously the cleverer and less insecure business folk have little need for this type of treatment.

  147. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 19, 2013 at 1:08

    I read this and my bullshit-meter went off the scale.

    What are you talking about? I can’t imagine a more realistic true to life story. Look at all the facts – criminals always “case” a joint before crime-ifying them. Usually when they are looking to “knock over” a grocery store, they “case” it for over a month. That’s not unusual at all. And criminal duos are always made up of one massive giant “packing heat” and his obvious weak point, a mild and nondescript accomplice who is easily manhandled by the looseriest wimp evar. I think that’s guaranteed by their union’s collective bargaining team. And obviously hardened criminals are so codependent that threatening one of them would of course turn the other one, the one with the gun, into a tearful mass of quivering capitulation. SO REAL!

  148. tigris said,

    January 19, 2013 at 1:15

    That story, true or not, makes him look like a nasty fucking bully. Also: he rough-housed with kids while he was packing?!! Nasty fucking earth-shatteringly MORONIC bully.

  149. J Neo Marvin said,

    January 19, 2013 at 1:23

    That reminds me of some early questions wrt Star Trek (when it was the *only* series) regarding toilets, as none were even hinted at on the show.

    Raw material for the replicators?

  150. Whale Chowder said,

    January 19, 2013 at 1:29

    Raw material for the replicators?

    Why not? Atoms is atoms…

  151. J Neo Marvin said,

    January 19, 2013 at 1:32

    “you need more than 6 bullets if there are 6 bad guys”

    I must say, I haven’t heard so much use of the phrases “good guys” and “bad guys” by fully-grown adults since…like, ever.

  152. VCarlson said,

    January 19, 2013 at 1:34

    I incline towards the “rich fantasy life” theory. While reading about his spending time in school with his kid and roughousing (while “packing“!!??!) with the other kids, I was thinking “how creepifying” *and* “if true, that couldn’t have been a public school, because they have rules (and fears of lawsuits) about stuff like that.”

  153. VCarlson said,

    January 19, 2013 at 1:37

    Raw material for the replicators?

    If you haven’t read John M. Ford’s How Much for Just the Planet?, I recommend you do so.

  154. Major Kong said,

    January 19, 2013 at 1:57

    Raw material for the replicators?

    Soylant Green is…….eeeeeeewwwwww!!!!!

  155. J Neo Marvin said,

    January 19, 2013 at 2:00

    Pee! Earl Grey! Hot!

  156. Gary Ruppert said,

    January 19, 2013 at 2:40

    The fact is, we the partiots will suvibve the collapse of USA due to debt if Obama keeps on socialising it, you liberal mochers will scream for freebyes but we will recycle your protein and take your water

  157. smut clyde said,

    January 19, 2013 at 3:04

    His water belongs to the sietch!!

  158. Pupienus Maximus said,

    January 19, 2013 at 3:36

    you couldn’t be more conspicuous without sparklers & an air-horn.

    A billowy taffeta dress, sparkly red slippers and a huge bouffant blond wig above one’s bearded face, along with sparklers and an air-horn is quite conspicuous indeed. So I have heard.

  159. Bitter Scribe said,

    January 19, 2013 at 3:59

    we will recycle your protein and take your water

    You can have my water when you pry it out of my cold, dead…never mind.

  160. Bitter Scribe said,

    January 19, 2013 at 4:00

    Workaday life is tough for small businesspeople. The republican party is for them a type of sympathetic hooker. He/she never points out their flaws, acts impressed with everything they say, the whole job.

    During elections.

  161. Marion in Savannah said,

    January 19, 2013 at 4:00

    His water belongs to the sietch!!

    Ahhhh… One of my most favorite books ever. (The first one…)

  162. Bob Kelley said,

    January 19, 2013 at 4:09

    Wipe your nose on your sleeve and suck it up. Bam-Bam Boy has overreached himself, and the NRA will hand him his ass. Out of my stone cold dead hand.

  163. tigris said,

    January 19, 2013 at 4:15

    we will recycle your protein and take your water

    I’ll give you all the water I make.

    Out of my stone cold dead hand

    Your lips to God’s ears.

  164. VCarlson said,

    January 19, 2013 at 4:18

    His water belongs to the sietch!!

    Ahhhh… One of my most favorite books ever. (The first one…)

    Just couldn’t get through it, unusual for me. I may try it again sometime.

  165. Matt said,

    January 19, 2013 at 4:35

    Just a reminder of what the average gun nut fantasizes about:

    http://www.thenation.com/article/katrinas-hidden-race-war#

    Not a hypothetical – a bunch of good ol’ boys who decided that Katrina was the apocalypse they’d been fapping themselves to sleep dreaming about, and decided to go out and start killing anybody who dared to be non-white and nearby. “Well-regulated militia” my nutsack.

  166. Crissa said,

    January 19, 2013 at 4:48

    Ironically, being aware could prevent the need of said death stick. Don’t thy think that maybe if they were always aware of the situation, they wouldn’t be in situations where deadly force is required?

  167. VCarlson said,

    January 19, 2013 at 5:20

    Don’t thy think that maybe if they were always aware of the situation, they wouldn’t be in situations where deadly force is required?

    Because then they couldn’t play out their Mitty-on-steroids fantasies.

    I suspect the point of the twirling bag guy’s whole routine was to get someone to notice him so he could “defend himself.” Whether he realized it or not.

  168. Magpie said,

    January 19, 2013 at 5:30

    So in the grocery store story, did anyone actually SEE a gun? Apart from the one idiot was holding? Why do no police appear in the story?

  169. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 19, 2013 at 5:31

    I’ve hung out in a lot of dive bars over the years and have developed a pretty good sense of when shit is going to go down and to slip away quietly. Never felt the need for a weapon and I’m a skinny geek with a ponytail. Same with city streets, and I’m a hick from the sticks. Bottom line is blend in and don’t be an asshole. Some people you can just tell are going to attract the wrong kind of attention.

  170. Crissa said,

    January 19, 2013 at 5:37

    Re: Nym @ January 18, 2013 at 6:00

    +100 for the Negativeland reference.

  171. jim the heretical anti-cliff lemming said,

    January 19, 2013 at 6:36

    The latest hotbed of pot-smoking hippie Communists?

    You’ll never guess.

  172. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 19, 2013 at 6:54

    jim, those hippies believe in climate change as well. The wingnuts may scream but there are a lot of pragmatists in the military who understand reality.

  173. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    January 19, 2013 at 6:59

    Some people you can just tell are going to attract the wrong kind of attention.

    It’s not my fault the sorority girls find me irresistible.

  174. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 19, 2013 at 7:49

    You know one thing to possibly blame on video games? The idea that you want/need/have these huge capacity magazines. Maybe that’s where the idea came from that six armed attackers would keep on coming after you killed one instead of running away like semi-normal people.

    All six would charge gunfire just to kill little ol’ you. Aren’t you special.

    Even mafia hitmen are smarter than that.

  175. CRA said,

    January 19, 2013 at 8:20

    I’ve hung out in a lot of dive bars over the years and have developed a pretty good sense of when shit is going to go down and to slip away quietly. Never felt the need for a weapon and I’m a skinny geek with a ponytail. Same with city streets, and I’m a hick from the sticks. Bottom line is blend in and don’t be an asshole. Some people you can just tell are going to attract the wrong kind of attention.

    I’m sure my experiences are different but my conclusions are the same.

    I have been in some dicey places and situations, from childhood onward. I was not born to privilege, and have not avoided the world, but somehow I’ve never had to fight anyone. I’ve never really had to avoid a fight, either. I don’t mean I suffered some crushing humiliation or abuse to avoid fighting … usually it takes two to tango, violence-wise. I guess I don’t perceive situations the way the fighters do, and so I don’t behave as if there’s going to be fighting that involves me. Therefore my behavior goes a very long way toward keeping me out of trouble: it’s like a Jedi mind trick: “this is not the man you’re looking to fight.” I don’t suppose the violent assholes of the world think much of me. Some of them are put off by my size and bearing, I guess. That wouldn’t deter the dangerous ones, but anyway they don’t end up bugging me, so far at least.

  176. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    January 19, 2013 at 8:25

    You know something? Valid. If we’re willing to admit that the people most susceptible to the belief that enemy combatants have no other decision making capabilities aside from coming at you are also really really stupid and unable to make distinctions between reality and fantasy, and therefore would be prone to just as stupid a decision if provided by any other type of media where enemy combatants have no other purpose than to die; then I would be willing to admit that video games are another source of that stupid stupid belief that no one who carry a thought longer than the goldfish swims through the underwater castle would fall for.

    Of course, I’m unsure if the ESRB or any other rating board is prepared to handle mental-age limitations.

  177. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 19, 2013 at 8:53

    Then again, it could have came from The Gauntlet.

  178. smut clyde said,

    January 19, 2013 at 11:05

    Therefore my behavior goes a very long way toward keeping me out of trouble: it’s like a Jedi mind trick: “this is not the man you’re looking to fight.”

    This has always worked for me.

    In the ideal world, of course, it would be nice if people who did not have that mind-trick were also safe from attack from random morons looking for aggro. If someone does *not* feel safe, does *not* feel able to project that combination of ‘background + situationally-aware part of the environment”, I am not going to blame them for it.

  179. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    January 19, 2013 at 11:25

    Wipe your nose on your sleeve and suck it up. Bam-Bam Boy has overreached himself, and the NRA will hand him his ass. Out of my stone cold dead hand.

    You have the President’s ass in your hand? Does this have something to do with him being into fisting?

  180. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    January 19, 2013 at 11:33

    Because then they couldn’t play out their Mitty-on-steroids fantasies.

    The Secret Life of Walter Sobchak. NSFW language.

  181. John Revolta said,

    January 19, 2013 at 12:40

    Cool story, Bill.

    You left out the bad guys’ names though. I betcha the little guy was “Rocky” and the big guy was “Mugsy”, amirite?

  182. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    January 19, 2013 at 12:55

    I betcha the little guy was “Rocky” and the big guy was “Mugsy”, amirite?

    Close, the big guy was “Bullwinkle”.

  183. John Revolta said,

    January 19, 2013 at 13:08

    Curses! Is always Moose and Squirrel!!

  184. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    January 19, 2013 at 13:14

    Come to think of it, there is a certain Badanovian quality to the gun nuts.

  185. Fenwick said,

    January 19, 2013 at 13:19

    St. Trotsky: Nifty digs, your wholiness.

    The Saturday morning travelogue is a public service to help sleepy Sadlies wake up for the weekend. In case of headaches from last night’s Blast-O-Matic Party, the travelogue has few words to read and lots of pitchers to look at. (Sort of like spring training….)
    ———————————–
    St. Trotsky’s town is a splendid strategic location for travelers: Avignon was my base during a week-long campaign in Provence: Nimes (1)…Orange (2) … Arles (3) … Tarascon (4) … Beaucaire (5).

    (1) Exceptionally well-preserved. Now used for bullfights. (France’s Languedoc region has culteral and linguistic links to Catalonia in Spain)

    (2) Also an immense, well-preserved Roman amphitheater. I was, however, limited to rail and foot: I was unable to see the Pont du Gard aqueduct, a brilliant triumph of Roman engineering. (Major: Can you put up your excellent photos again?)

    (3) Film buffs: The Lion in Winter was filmed here.

    (4) Across the river from Tarascon. Beaucaire contains an unusual triangular tower.

    (5) Film buffs: The arena is featured prominently in an excellent action sequence of John Frankenheimer’s Ronin.

    In addition to St Trotsky’s nifty palace, I visited two fortifications on the west bank of the Rhone, both of which are visible from Avignon’s river-cliff gardens. (Indeed, they are often used as photography platforms for viewing Avignon.)
    <a href="
    Fort St. Andre and <a href="
    Tower of Philippe le Bel. Philippe le Bel guarded the western end of a famous medieval bridge.

    Now pour another cup of coffee–or whatever you prefer–and return to our giddy snarkfest…..

  186. Fenwick said,

    January 19, 2013 at 13:31

    Fuck. Two links didn’t work. I really worked hard on all the <a href bidness, too. Okay, here they again:

    Fort St. Andre:
    http://www.google.com/search?q=fort+st+andre+villeneuve+les+avignon&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=qoP6UJmmGevU0gH32oC4DA&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAA&biw=1043&bih=982

    Philippe le Bel:
    http://www.google.com/search?q=tour+philippe+le+bel&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=5oP6UJTNBKmq0AGX4oHQBw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAA&biw=1043&bih=982

  187. Fenwick said,

    January 19, 2013 at 13:40

    Aw fuck. My footnote numbering was screwed up, too. This was pretty disastrous. Not even worth trying to repair. Now I’m going to go away and stop bothering people. Think I’ll watch some Foyle’s War….

  188. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    January 19, 2013 at 13:45

    Oddly enough, Gensert still lives in the Bronx. In October, he wrote a hilarious “BOOKMARK THIS!!!” post. If I ever run into him at Quality Donut, I think I’ll start laughing uncontrollably.

  189. smut clyde said,

    January 19, 2013 at 14:03

    their follow-up of, “okay a guy comes up to you and threatens to kill you unless you kill him”

    I am selfish enough to put my own personal desire to stay true to principles over and above someone else’s desire to be killed.

  190. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    January 19, 2013 at 16:30

    North of the Border News

    OTTAWA (Reuters) – The Bank of Canada has barked up the wrong maple tree with its new plastic banknotes, using a foreign Norway maple leaf as the emblem on the notes instead of the sugar maple that the country has on its national flag, an eagle-eyed Canadian botanist says.

    ~

  191. bbkf said,

    January 19, 2013 at 16:30

    teh weather channel says we are in for an influx of ‘bitter’ canadian air…do not want! keep your bitterness to yerselves you damn Canucks!

  192. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 19, 2013 at 17:18

    I’ve met a few bitter Canadians at the casino…

  193. Bill said,

    January 19, 2013 at 17:51

    I’m partial to the hordes-cresting-yon-hill argument. Especially if they’re Visagoths, you’re going to need that 30-round clip (preferably duct-taped to a second clip because in the heat of a killing spree, who the hell knows where you put the spare?).

  194. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 19, 2013 at 18:51

    Finally some real Minnesota weather! There is currently no ice on Lake Superior though (except near shore and in bays)

  195. El Manquécito said,

    January 19, 2013 at 19:03

    Visagoths

    Alaric wants to charge the Sack of Rome on his card.

  196. Major Kong said,

    January 19, 2013 at 19:33

    “okay a guy comes up to you and threatens to kill you unless you kill him”

    How about I meet him halfway and just kick his ass?

  197. jim, bitter Canadian said,

    January 19, 2013 at 20:02

    We have the strongest currency in the world – & the stupidest.

    Can’t stand the new money – vending machines won’t take ‘em & they’re partially transparent. What a great way to say, “LOL, this hideous-looking shit won’t even be good for toilet paper after we devalue the hell out of it, you dumb fucking peasants!”

    Oh, as a special bonus, if you leave it on your dashboard or windowsill on a hot sunny summer day, IT MELTS … this is the same Royal Mint that insists on putting new faces on our coins roughly every ten minutes. Newer two-dollar coins don’t vend worth a damn either.

    Golly, it’s almost as if some folks with buku political juice very much want everybody conditioned to hate using cash so much that they’ll switch over to paying Visa or some similar pack of predators for the glorious privilege of spending their own money.

  198. g said,

    January 19, 2013 at 20:43

    Actually, this is how I lived in NYC for 20 years. I rode the subways home from work at all hours of day and night, I walked the streets of Manhattan and Brooklyn late at night. Never •once* was I mugged, assaulted or robbed….He must mean the late ’70s, sounds like he saw ‘Death Wish’ and thought it was real. I was there from the mid-80s on. Never •once• did I ever feel like I wanted a handgun.”

    I did live in NYC in the late ’70s, and I too rode the trains home at all hours of day and night, and I was there during the ’77 blackout. I hung out in some pretty tough parts of town to. I was never mugged or assaulted, although I once had some money burgled from an apartment by an acquaintence who knew it was there. I never felt in danger and certainly never felt I needed a gun.

  199. Major Kong said,

    January 19, 2013 at 20:55

    My father worked as a textbook salesman in NYC in the late 1960s – early 1970s.

    He worked what were considered rough parts of town at the time: Hell’s Kitchen, the Bowery, Alphabet City.

    He had one attempted mugging. He was getting something out of the trunk of his car when someone walked up and stuck something in his back and said “Give me your wallet”.

    My dad spun around to see who it was, totally forgetting that he had a 30 pound suitcase full of textbooks in his right hand – completely knocking out the would-be mugger.

  200. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    January 19, 2013 at 21:04

    There is currently no ice on Lake Superior though (except near shore and in bays)

    Munising Bay still has no ice. There should be shacks out there by now.

  201. Pupienus Maximus said,

    January 19, 2013 at 21:45

    Watching them move the bridge today.

    http://www.sellwoodbridge.org/?p=construction-camera

  202. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 19, 2013 at 22:26

    Way OT of everything.

    It’s Hockey Day in Minnesota today: http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/256124/group/homepage/

    I’ll root for the northern schools in the HS games (although Eagan won the first game), as a Bulldog fan I have to root for a meteor in the Goofer-Sue game, and GO WILD!

  203. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 19, 2013 at 23:45

    …runs naked through thread…

    SET YOUR CHICKENS FREEEEEE!!!!

    Ha ha!

  204. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    January 19, 2013 at 23:53

    SET YOUR CHICKENS FREEEEEE!!!!

    I just have the one, and I’m afraid if I let it out, someone will keep fuckin’ it.
    .

  205. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 19, 2013 at 23:59

    Check out the comic linked far above.

    Go Grand Rapids! Overtime against last year’s champs on a frozen lake with wind and snow – that’s some hockey.

  206. Anonymous said,

    January 20, 2013 at 0:05

    The city in the 70′s. I still have a Summer of Sam t-shirt and a Some Girls cassette. However, I do not have my virginity.

  207. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 20, 2013 at 0:07

    Yes! and the home crowd on Lake Pokegema goes wild!

  208. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 20, 2013 at 0:12

    We now return you to our regular snark, already in progress.

  209. Major Kong said,

    January 20, 2013 at 0:21

    SET YOUR CHICKENS FREEEEEE!!!!

    Release the hounds chickens!

  210. a chicken said,

    January 20, 2013 at 0:55

    Bruk? Bruk bruk BRAWK brocaw.

  211. Pupienus said,

    January 20, 2013 at 1:02

    HAHAHAHAHA

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/19/1473881/two-people-accidentally-shot-at-a-gun-show-safety-checkpoint-on-gun-appreciation-day/

  212. John Revolta said,

    January 20, 2013 at 1:35

    UPDATED: 5 people shot at 3 different gun shows on gun appreciation day

    Now come on people, we really shouldn’t laugh at thhhhhhhhhpppppppppphhhhhhhhhhhffffffffffffffffffffffffff
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

  213. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    January 20, 2013 at 1:49

    The tree of the Second Amendment must periodically be watered with the blood of dumbasses.
    .

  214. CRA said,

    January 20, 2013 at 2:10

    In the ideal world, of course, it would be nice if people who did not have that mind-trick were also safe from attack from random morons looking for aggro. If someone does *not* feel safe, does *not* feel able to project that combination of ‘background + situationally-aware part of the environment”, I am not going to blame them for it.

    Right, any blame lies with the aggressor. Implying otherwise would be like agreeing that provocatively-dressed women invite rape.

    The “stand your ground” laws are terrible in so many ways. The guy who wants to “stand his ground” rather than actively avoid violence is probably also the kind of guy who perceives “fighting words” (and behaviors short of attack) as threats deserving a violent response. The ground between a threat to one’s person and one’s honor is muddied …

    I think one thing a “stand your ground” killer who shoots a black man for knocking on the door has in common with a mass killer is that both men could probably pass a polygraph re: “did you feel threatened?” They feel some chronic, existential threat, not an acute, physical one.

  215. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 20, 2013 at 3:27

    I demand satisfaction!

  216. Substance McGravitas said,

    January 20, 2013 at 3:30

    Okay then.

  217. Major Kong said,

    January 20, 2013 at 3:32

    UPDATED: 5 people shot at 3 different gun shows on gun appreciation day

    I stopped going to gun shows years ago for that reason.

    They also attract plenty of crazies of course, but the main reason was the amount of poor gun safety being practiced.

  218. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    January 20, 2013 at 3:32

    I demand satisfaction!

    LS/MFT!
    .

  219. Pupienus said,

    January 20, 2013 at 3:47

    Chesterfields – they satisy!

  220. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 20, 2013 at 3:57

    Three out of four doctors prefer camels…

    …the other one would rather date a girl.

  221. N__B said,

    January 20, 2013 at 3:58

    Late 70s NYC? I was a teenager, taking the subway to high school, an hour each way. I never saw any violence, although I did see a lot of chickenshit tourists.

  222. Fenwick said,

    January 20, 2013 at 4:05

    The tree of the Second Amendment must periodically be watered with the blood of dumbasses.

    Jeffraham: Congratulations on winning another internet.

  223. bbkf said,

    January 20, 2013 at 4:11

    holy hellions…windchill -28….tomorrow’s actual temps are going to be in the negatives….eck…

    anyhoo, thanks to whoever linked to the gunshow shootings…truly warmed the cockles of my heart…and they need warming…

    the daughter and i just got back from watching the u of m cougars get borked on the court…still a fun game and place to be…she makes posters for each player and they sign her shirt…many warm fuzzies…a toddler taking a header down the bleachers however, scared the liver out of me…i will assume that pup, b^4, el manq and the major will know what to do with that…

    kai…daughter and i are going to snuggle up on the couch and watch teevee…bai!

  224. Pupienus said,

    January 20, 2013 at 5:18

    Late 70s NYC? [...] I did see a lot of chickenshit tourists.

    I was occasionally a tourist in NYC in the late 70s. Don’t think I was a chickenshit tourist. I never really felt unsafe though I did strive to be situationally aware. But then, I was just taking a walk on the wild side.

  225. sparks said,

    January 20, 2013 at 5:28

    Late 70s NYC? I was a teenager, taking the subway to high school, an hour each way. I never saw any violence, although I did see a lot of chickenshit tourists.

    Those Welcome To Fear City signs didn’t help.

  226. Gary Ruppert said,

    January 20, 2013 at 5:46

    The fact is, why do faggots and liberals get special rights? The minorites too, no rights left for white men who are the enemy according to the PC Obamanazis. While, we will excise our rights soon enough and defend freedom itself, for it is the white men who invented freedom and prosperity not some multi-culti mongrel babarians.

  227. John Revolta said,

    January 20, 2013 at 5:59

    Lived in NYC from ’82 till ’04. In the last 8 years, first in Richmond VA and now in KCMO, I’ve seen WAYWAY more violence & gunplay than I ever saw in NY. In fact there have been single years when I saw more gunplay than I saw in the whole time I was in NY.

    America: it’s nuts out here.

  228. tigris said,

    January 20, 2013 at 6:15

    The fact is, why do faggots and liberals get special rights?

    It’s because we’re so awesome.

  229. Pupienus Maximus said,

    January 20, 2013 at 8:00

    The fact is, why do faggots and liberals get special rights?

    It’s because we’re so awesome FABULOUS!

    Because.

  230. a chicken said,

    January 20, 2013 at 9:42

    Late 70s NYC? I was a teenager, taking the subway to high school, an hour each way.

    UPHILL EACH WAY.

  231. Whale Chowder said,

    January 20, 2013 at 9:46

    I can remember being in LA (Los Angeles, not Louisiana) in the late ’80s and seeing the daily shooting report on the TeeVee and thinking “I’d never want to live in a place as violent as this.”

    Now we get the same thing here in Seattle, with something like 10% of the population.

  232. Whale Chowder said,

    January 20, 2013 at 9:46

    UPHILL EACH WAY.

    Through the SNOW.

  233. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    January 20, 2013 at 11:44

    I can remember being in LA (Los Angeles, not Louisiana)

    LA? Los Angeles? No, Louisiana. LA? Louisiana? No, Lake Arrowhead. LA? Lake Arrowhead? No, Patterson, New Jersey.

  234. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    January 20, 2013 at 14:30

    Late 70s NYC? I was a teenager, taking the subway to high school, an hour each way.

    UPHILL EACH WAY.

    Through the SNOW.

    I hate it when snow clogs the tunnels!

  235. N__B said,

    January 20, 2013 at 15:38

    Through the SNOW.

    Senior year, I took to riding my bike across Queens, over the Qboro, and up 3rd Ave to school. Occasionally in the snow.

  236. Major Kong said,

    January 20, 2013 at 16:48

    I can remember being in LA (Los Angeles, not Louisiana) in the late ’80s and seeing the daily shooting report on the TeeVee and thinking “I’d never want to live in a place as violent as this.”

    Someone put a bullet through my car window (right rear) when I lived in California. I was driving back to Castle AFB in Merced along RT 99 when I heard a “ping” and saw a .22 sized hole in the window.

    I had the Security Police at Castle call the Merced County Sheriff, who told me “Well sir, unless someone was intentionally trying to kill you it’s not our jurisdiction”.

    I think I said “I didn’t exactly stop to ask if they were trying to kill me!”

    So we had to call the CHP out to look at it. Other than putting me in the database of “freeway shootings” which were all the rage back then it didn’t go any further.

  237. CRA said,

    January 20, 2013 at 16:59

    LA? Los Angeles? No, Louisiana. LA? Louisiana? No, Lake Arrowhead. LA? Lake Arrowhead? No, Patterson, New Jersey.

    A James Brown live album (Revolution of the Mind) features an extended verbal bit along these lines. The band plays a funk vamp while Brown asks the members where they’re from. He gets to “Cheese” (dunno the guitarist’s real name) and is told, “L.A.” Brown reacts with exaggerated surprise, Los Angeles apparently not being a legit place for a funky black musician to hail from. The bit drags on as Brown talk/raps and “Cheese” repeats “L.A.,” finally revealing that it stands for “Lower Alabama.”

    I have to wonder if this bit was modified on tour for Los Angeles audiences.

  238. El Manquécito said,

    January 20, 2013 at 17:06

    Lower Alabama (pronounced L A ) is a common name for the FL panhandle, Pensacola to Panama City, sort of a synonym for Redneck Riviera. Perhaps it came from the Afro-Am community referring to the Mobile to Pensacola stretch as L A, being real different from the piney uplands.

  239. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    January 20, 2013 at 17:50

    Lower Alabama (pronounced L A ) is a common name for the FL panhandle

    Before the 2-letter state codes, when FLA was the abbreviation for Florida- my friend from the panhandle would always add the “F”.

  240. Substance McGravitas said,

    January 20, 2013 at 18:26

    Flanhandles are too mushy to be of use.

  241. Major Kong said,

    January 20, 2013 at 18:58

    Florida – the further North you go, the more South it gets.

  242. Substance McGravitas said,

    January 20, 2013 at 19:27

    Townhall employs bisexual internet personas!

  243. El Manquécito said,

    January 20, 2013 at 20:02

    Seems like there should be some link between flanhandles and muffintops.

  244. bughunter said,

    January 20, 2013 at 20:49

    flanhandles and muffintops

    Flanhandles are more or less vertical. Muffintops are generally horizontal.

    Otherwise they’re identical. Personally I prefer the lovelump. It sticks out in front.

  245. Fenwick said,

    January 20, 2013 at 21:14

    we will excise our rights

    Outsanding work, Fake Gary! Well-crafted, stylish, concise, and subtle.

  246. Major Kong said,

    January 20, 2013 at 21:22

    New (non military) diary:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/20/1179282/-Flight-Engineer-A-Dying-Breed

  247. Whale Chowder said,

    January 20, 2013 at 21:23

    Seems like there should be some link between flanhandles and muffintops.

    The combination of flanhandles and muffintops is commonly known as manhandles.

  248. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    January 20, 2013 at 21:42

    Did I mention my new catchphrase? Useful in a myriad of situations.
    .

  249. Major Kong said,

    January 20, 2013 at 22:00

    Did I mention my new catchphrase?

    I like it.

  250. Whale Chowder said,

    January 20, 2013 at 22:01

    Major, another fun read. One nit: I think you meant “rite of passage.”

  251. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    January 20, 2013 at 23:44

    I like it.

    Compressed, flammable, highly-explosive safety!
    .

  252. Pupienus Maximus said,

    January 21, 2013 at 0:00

    Teh Ho didn’t want to do our habitual Sunday brunch and (often) a movie today. So I hadda make E’s B ta home. Which meant I had to make some English muffins. Good thing I didn’t need to smoke some ham or nuffin. I won’t rate my own but I will say they wzu pretty damn gud.

  253. John Revolta said,

    January 21, 2013 at 0:02

    The English Muffintops

  254. Bitter Scribe said,

    January 21, 2013 at 1:16

    49ers going to the Super Bowl. Good. Jim Harbaugh is my boy. I think he was treated really unfairly in Chicago (like every other Bears QB since McMahon) and I was thrilled with how he turned Stanford around.

  255. Suezboo said,

    January 21, 2013 at 1:47

    Thanks, Major. I learn a lot every time you post. Things I had never even thought about before. A whole new world (C).

  256. The Dark Avenger said,

    January 21, 2013 at 1:55

    Golly, it’s almost as if some folks with buku political juice very much want everybody conditioned to hate using cash so much that they’ll switch over to paying Visa or some similar pack of predators for the glorious privilege of spending their own money.

    It didn’t help that all the vaunted ‘security features’ of Canadian currency had been compromised a few years ago.

    Wesley WEBER’s organization was based primarily in Windsor, and at a cottage in Lakeshore, Ontario. The group consisted of four core members, with a variety of associates. WEBER and Anthony CAPORALE, a marihuana grower, were the leaders of the group, while Dustin KOSSUM and Ryan HODARE were hired help who were paid $150 an hour. WEBER was a self-taught computer mastermind who had spent years tinkering with banknotes to perfect the simulated images and security features. These skills earned him a conviction for cheque forgery in 1997, and another for counterfeiting $10 and $20 notes in 1999.

    WEBER used a ring of associates to pass the counterfeits, and the group quickly became greedy and spent the counterfeits recklessly. WEBER was arrested in October 2000 for passing counterfeit at an auto parts supplier, but was released on bail six days later. He quickly determined that self-distribution had been poorly conceived, and sought out a former associate who had both legitimate and illegitimate business interests to assist him with distribution.

    WEBER moved his portable printing operations around to a half dozen sites, and police raided a marihuana-grow operation he was running near Sarnia in February 2001. During the raid, police seized CDs that contained digital images of the $100 notes WEBER had been working on. WEBER moved operations to a rented cottage in Lakeshore to try to evade police surveillance. Despite the attention from police, his spending habits continued. He bought vehicles, furniture, vacations and more sophisticated counterfeiting equipment. The group was printing up to $20,000 a day at the Lakeshore cottage. Investigators were able to place GPS transponders on WEBER’s vehicle, and determined that the Lakeshore cottage was a potential printing plant. Police rented the property next door and used it as an observation post. In July 2001, WEBER’s group arrived at the cottage to print an order for their distributor and was caught in the act. Almost $234,000 in counterfeit notes was seized, in various states of completion, and there were enough supplies to print $6.6 million more. WEBER pled guilty in August 2001, and received a five year prison sentence, while CAPORALE, KOSSUM and HODARE all received two year sentences. .

    One estimate was that he flooded the Canadian economy with 60 million Canadian dollars, or, as we call it in America, a few bucks.

  257. Shakezula said,

    January 21, 2013 at 4:50

    Forget food and water. Will they have their own fire department?

  258. Major Kong said,

    January 21, 2013 at 5:37

    Will they have their own fire department?

    Every male citizen above the age of 13 will be required to carry a fire extinguisher at all times.

    In a totally “freedom” kind of way.

  259. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    January 21, 2013 at 6:47

    Every male citizen above the age of 13 will be required to carry a CO2 fire extinguisher at all times.

    Fixted for moar HOAX!11!!111

  260. W. Kiernan said,

    January 21, 2013 at 12:40

    Tatsuya Ishida has important advice for the Citadel founders.

  261. Pupienus said,

    January 21, 2013 at 16:51

    POOP.

  262. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 21, 2013 at 17:24

    The Citadel will have a “Fire House”. I imagine since it is a bastion of FREEDOM loving patriots, the planned response to fire is the idealized Citizens Voluntary Fire Brigade[1]. Still, with no water reservoirs other than the 2,500 gallon tanks located inside people’s homes, I dunno what they would be doing.

    [1] It is not socialist in the least bit you dirty stinking hippies. Volunteer Fire Brigades are the symbol of individualists and entrepreneurial spirit and band together for collective protection against fire is totes the capitalist free-market solution.

  263. Helmut Monotreme said,

    January 21, 2013 at 17:36

    Some enterprising local citizen will roll up his fire engine and crew to the burning house and, in the spirit of free market capitalism, begin to negotiate the price for his services.

  264. Major Kong said,

    January 21, 2013 at 17:37

    Some enterprising local citizen will roll up his fire engine and crew to the burning house and, in the spirit of free market capitalism, begin to negotiate the price for his services.

    Isn’t that more or less how it worked in ancient Rome?

  265. Helmut Monotreme said,

    January 21, 2013 at 17:50

    Yessir that’s how Crassus (an early patron of Julius Caesar) made his millions. Later the Scythians got tired of him and poured molten gold down his throat.

  266. Helmut Monotreme said,

    January 21, 2013 at 17:53

    Oops, it wasn’t the Scythians, it was the Parthians. And he may have been already dead when they got the ‘pour gold down his greedy throat’ idea.

  267. N__B said,

    January 21, 2013 at 17:58

    There is also a theory that some entrepreneurs, entirely unknown to Crassus may have been setting fires in areas where his fire-crews operated.

  268. Helmut Monotreme said,

    January 21, 2013 at 18:06

    It was never proved that those fires were arson. It was also never proved that Crassus seduced a Vestal virgin to acquire her families wealth, or had rich people added to the proscription list just so he could seize their estates.

  269. Dudicus Minimus said,

    January 21, 2013 at 18:18

    Why do they have a garden named after a Lectroid messenger? Not was he an illegal alien representative of a terrorist organization that threatened the United States with nuclear destruction but I’m pretty sure he was black.

  270. N__B said,

    January 21, 2013 at 18:31

    It was never proved that those fires were arson. It was also never proved that Crassus seduced a Vestal virgin to acquire her families wealth, or had rich people added to the proscription list just so he could seize their estates.

    As I said, a theory. One that can now never be proven or disproven.

  271. N__B said,

    January 21, 2013 at 18:31

    And I should add, I have no problem slandering Crassus because (a) the motherfucker deserves it and (b) he’s dead 2000 years and can’t get back at me.

  272. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 21, 2013 at 18:43

    Isn’t that how it worked in nineteenth century NYC?

  273. Helmut Monotreme said,

    January 21, 2013 at 18:48

    And I should add, I have no problem slandering Crassus because (a) the motherfucker deserves it and (b) he’s dead 2000 years and can’t get back at me.

    The cynical part of me now expects you to be sued by the Crassus estate, in a British courtroom where one can still be convicted of libel, even if the statements and allegations are true.

  274. bbkf said,

    January 21, 2013 at 18:58

    gads…i have blubbered today…even chuck schumer is making me weepy…

  275. N__B said,

    January 21, 2013 at 19:06

    Isn’t that how it worked in nineteenth century NYC?

    Not so much. Prior to the FDNY (<1865), the volunteer companies would fight each other for access to a fire, including blocking streets, blocking hydrants (after the Croton water system made them possible), and literally starting brawls. The real-estate sharks would buy up the burned lots afterwards, but kept clear of the volly follies.

  276. Pupienus said,

    January 21, 2013 at 19:20

    ALERT JOSH ST. LAWRENCE!

    http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/01/strange_sounds_coming_from_a_s.html

  277. bbkf said,

    January 21, 2013 at 19:34

    Not so much. Prior to the FDNY (<1865), the volunteer companies would fight each other for access to a fire, including blocking streets, blocking hydrants (after the Croton water system made them possible), and literally starting brawls. The real-estate sharks would buy up the burned lots afterwards, but kept clear of the volly follies.

    ooooh…i am now eagerly awaiting q. tarantino’s re-telling of history!

  278. bbkf said,

    January 21, 2013 at 19:36

    http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/01/strange_sounds_coming_from_a_s.html

    really? dude’s name is ‘richard cockle’?

  279. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 21, 2013 at 19:44

    Beyonce. That is all.

  280. bbkf said,

    January 21, 2013 at 19:44

    oh, and i see it has gone without saying, but i’m going to say it anyway, derek hunter is a humongous jackhole…

  281. bbkf said,

    January 21, 2013 at 19:45

    Beyonce. That is all.

    totally kicked it, did she not?

  282. bbkf said,

    January 21, 2013 at 19:46

    also, too…the only thing about inaugural coverage that has steadily pissed me off is the whining about the cold weather…fuck you! it has now warmed up to -8 here…

  283. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 21, 2013 at 19:51

    Gorgeous and a great set of pipes – what’s not to love. She absolutely nailed a very hard song in front of the world.

  284. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 21, 2013 at 19:52

    I also love that the President talked about climate change. Now back it up.

  285. S. cerevisiae said,

    January 21, 2013 at 20:04

    Up to -12 here on the scandahoovian riviera. Yeah, if they can still play brass instruments it’s not that cold.

  286. DAS said,

    January 21, 2013 at 20:07

    Except for that part about reducing health care costs and the deficit being “hard” and “painful” (I guess one does need to assuage the pain caucus), I thought the president made a good speech and not just about climate change. Now let’s see if he actually pushes policies that could actually do the things the president claims he wants done.

  287. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 21, 2013 at 20:12

    UPDATED: 5 people shot at 3 different gun shows on gun appreciation day

    I too got a laugh out of that – but after a while the comedy loses it’s edge and it just becomes downright depressing.

  288. VCarlson said,

    January 21, 2013 at 20:15

    I guess one does need to assuage the pain caucus

    Why? They’ve already been assuaged plenty, enough to demonstrate their solution not only doesn’t work, it makes things worse.

  289. jim, bitter Canadian said,

    January 21, 2013 at 20:36

    There is also a theory that some entrepreneurs, entirely unknown to Crassus may have been setting fires in areas where his fire-crews operated.

    Heh.
    Fahrenheit For 51 B.C.!

  290. Pupienus Maximus said,

    January 21, 2013 at 21:46

    jim, bitter Canadian said,

    January 21, 2013 at 20:36 (kill)

    Ouch.

  291. N__B said,

    January 21, 2013 at 22:15

    What’s with the lens flare? Was J. J. Abrams in charge of sliding the bridge into place?

  292. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    January 21, 2013 at 22:38

    Yeah you stupid libtards – with your double standards and hypocrisy. Where’s the Fire Department for that bridge?

  293. Major Kong said,

    January 21, 2013 at 22:59

    So what exactly are they doing with that bridge? Did they assemble the roadway off-site?

  294. Shakezula said,

    January 21, 2013 at 22:59

    And what about a medical center?

    OK. Basically I am saying is appears that in the event of an emergency any Brave Patriot who isn’t right near the gate will be screwed.

    Also, I’m such a commie liberal that I can’t synch “living in a place where there’s only one way out” with my concept of freedom.

  295. N__B said,

    January 21, 2013 at 23:02

    So what exactly are they doing with that bridge? Did they assemble the roadway off-site?

    Common construction technique when you have a heavily-used bridge that needs to be replaced: build the new bridge immediately adjacent to the original. If the road geometry works, sometimes the new bridge is simply connected to the existing approaches and the old one demolished; if the geometry would lead to sharp turns at the approach ends, you temporarily hook up the road to the new, demolish the old, then when no one is looking, slide the new one onto the old abutments/towers, reconnect the approaches to the old alignment, and set the bag of shit on fire.

  296. Pupienus Maximus said,

    January 21, 2013 at 23:10

    What N__B sed. The only way they could make it work is to have the new bridge with the same alignment as the old one because otherwise it would require massive buying of properties, building entirely new streets, … So they built temporary piers and approaches just beside the current bridge. The new bridge will be built just about exactly where the old one used to be. When it’s all done in a couple years they’ll remove the old bridge (it’s going to be recycled) and the temporary piers and the temporary approaches.

  297. Major Kong said,

    January 21, 2013 at 23:19

    Ah. My next question was going to concern the necessity of two sets of piers for this method to work.

  298. kg said,

    January 21, 2013 at 23:37

    Only a pawn in their game.

  299. Pupienus Maximus said,

    January 21, 2013 at 23:58

    I’ve been watching the whole process from my balcony with binoculars and my scope. http://i.imgur.com/DA2w3.jpg And a couple times a week I walk the dog down the Willlamette Greenway Trail for close-up views. It’s just under 2 1/2 miles down there.

    This place is heaven for a guy. Two blocks the other way they build barges. It’s fun to watch them come together. (Pic taken from the OHSU Center for Health and Heaing) And also fun to watch the launches (not my vid, I’m one of those people down there watching.)

    Then, just the other side of there they’re putting up a humongous addition to OHSU. The area had heavy industry for 100 years so some of it is pretty toxic. They hauled a bunch off (in covered trucks) and also sequestered some spots by enclosing in sheet piles. They raised Moody Ave.14 feet so the new buildings can have underground parking without digging into the nasty soil.

    Adjacent to that the new light rail bridge is going up. For light rail, buses, bikes, pedestrians and eventually the streetcar. No autos or trucks.

    Then too, the new light rail line is fun to watch take place as they thread the lines through and under the Marquam Bridge mixmaster. http://media.trimet.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Harbor_in_progress3.jpg

    Once a year they open up the aerial tram for engineering tours. I haven’t uploaded any of those pics but the retensioning was way cool.

    Guy stuff, it’s great guy stuff.

  300. Pupienus Maximus said,

    January 21, 2013 at 23:59

    watch them come together http://i.imgur.com/Lu6xN.jpg

    launch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax7EVSFYBt0

    I blame bbkf for the tag fail.

  301. Pupienus Maximus said,

    January 22, 2013 at 0:01

    arg

    thread the lines http://www.rtands.com/media/k2/items/cache/54b9a4b33b819b49d0652f10233157c9_XL.jpg

    http://media.trimet.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Harbor_in_progress3.jpg

  302. Anonymous said,

    January 22, 2013 at 0:37

    I blame bbkf for the tag fail.

    i have been epic in my fails today…

  303. bbkf said,

    January 22, 2013 at 0:38

    i have been epic in my fails today…

    HAHAHAHAHA…SEE?!?!

  304. Gary Ruppert said,

    January 22, 2013 at 0:47

    The fact is, all the Obama worship has to stop. He is a king and a dictator, that you were fooled into electing and he cheated. He knows nothing of freedom, only socialist taking and punishing producers. He wants blacks and gays to have special rights, and wants to hobble industry with regulation to support fake global warming. This is the most dangerous man in the history of American History.

  305. Gary Ruppert said,

    January 22, 2013 at 1:17

    The fact is, anyone who worships Obama is a traiter to USA Values. You support mooching off of us, real producers, while all you produce are brain damaged babies and generations of welfare.

  306. not a gator said,

    January 22, 2013 at 1:21

    So in the grocery store story, did anyone actually SEE a gun? Apart from the one idiot was holding? Why do no police appear in the story?

    Surprised that fantasy doesn’t end with the police showing up and telling him what a great citizen he is and sucking his cock, also, too.

  307. bughunter said,

    January 22, 2013 at 1:57

    Surprised that fantasy doesn’t end with the police showing up and telling him what a great citizen he is and sucking his cock, also, too.

    Agreed, that’s one twisted dude. A proper fantasy would begin with the police showing up and sucking his cock. Of course, by “police” I mean a hot Hungarian brunette with fake boobs, packing his preference of genitalia, and wearing a skimpy police costume…

  308. bughunter said,

    January 22, 2013 at 2:13

    Fun little guide from Mother Jones: Almost every Obama conspiracy theory, ever!

  309. not a gator said,

    January 22, 2013 at 2:14

    Prior to the FDNY, the volunteer companies would fight each other for access to a fire, including blocking streets, blocking hydrants (after the Croton water system made them possible), and literally starting brawls.

    Sounds like the infamous NY-NJ mobbed up union thugs had their antecedents.

  310. bughunter said,

    January 22, 2013 at 2:38

    Wow, well after two weeks of scrutiny by the incredulous internet at large (and just enough gullible gun fetishists to allow them to feel justified continuing their charade), those ill Arms folks are busy blustering, both over at the Citadel blog (“Be patient, trust us, this is going to happen for real!”) and at their “Arms Company” blog (“We’re ignoring all the meanies with the tough questions because they aren’t building a Citadel.”)… if you can call something that produces no product other than bullshit and confidence games an arms company.

    And of course, all comments are still off at all of their sites. No mangoes. No tigers, either, really… just a bunch of shadow puppets.

    These idiots really are living in a fantasy world, projecting the confidence of someone who has drunk their own kool-aid… kinda like the Romney campaign and Faux Nooze in October.

    Remember Karl Rove’s face on Election Night? These Citadel people are in for the same shocking dose of reality.

    And afterwards none of it will be their fault.

  311. tigris said,

    January 22, 2013 at 2:46

    the history of American History

    BUTTOCKS.

  312. N__B said,

    January 22, 2013 at 4:09

    Is anyone here (a) familiar with Creative Commons licenses and (b) willing to talk about them?

  313. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    January 22, 2013 at 4:30

    Is anyone here (a) familiar with Creative Commons licenses and (b) willing to talk about them?

    Familiar, but no expert. As I understand, a work placed in Creative Commons can be used for certain thangs (the terms of the license spell those uses out), generally in return for attribution (in the case of a photo, a link back to the licensor’s web site, Flickr page, etc.; for a piece of code, perhaps simply including credit in the code comments is enough).
    .

  314. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    January 22, 2013 at 4:33

    Take the wingnuts LARPing.
    .

  315. N__B said,

    January 22, 2013 at 4:40

    JP -

    I’m working on a publication – something more than a research paper and less than a book – funded by a grant. It has to be readily useable, but I don’t want people thinking it’s public domain. The CC By-ND license looks good, but I’m wondering if using it opens some unseen-by-me can of worms.

  316. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    January 22, 2013 at 4:43

    I’m wondering if using it opens some unseen-by-me can of worms.

    You need a law-talker, then. Furilla. There is no substitute for a good IP attorney if it’s something that matters (or MAY matter).
    .

  317. Major Kong said,

    January 22, 2013 at 4:47

    He is a king and a dictator

    So, does that make him the King of Dictators or the Dictator of Kings?

  318. N__B said,

    January 22, 2013 at 4:50

    You need a law-talker, then

    You didn’t say that in front of a mirror, did you?

  319. Shakezula said,

    January 22, 2013 at 5:39

    Did someone mention the King’s dick?

  320. El Manquécito said,

    January 22, 2013 at 5:47

    FWIW, I’ve never heard of a creative commons thing going bad. But I lead a sheltered life.

  321. bbkf said,

    January 22, 2013 at 6:18

    You need a law-talker, then

    obviously you should consult bob loblaw’s law blog…

  322. bbkf said,

    January 22, 2013 at 6:20

    haha…just listened to larry wilmore take down the maroons who keep telling us what mlk would have liked/disliked…i wonder if he has a bit about jeebus?

  323. bbkf said,

    January 22, 2013 at 6:46

    oh, really? well it’s still to flipping cold to run naked through the thread…

  324. Sadly, No! » Wolverines! Ah, I mean an actual Wolverine! Mommy, get my Anarchy Ouchy Kit! said,

    January 22, 2013 at 6:57

    [...] Wingnuts Take LARPing to Some Weird Places [...]

  325. Cerberus said,

    January 22, 2013 at 6:59

    Ze post! She is new. Sorry for the delay. Was dealing with some… stuff this weekend that made it harder to bring the funny.

  326. bbkf said,

    January 22, 2013 at 7:01

    oh…well i hope you’re okay…so, i guess i’ll go to the new thread all by myself…

  327. Fiddlin Bill said,

    January 22, 2013 at 13:46

    All the arguments for extended magazines are really arguments for fully automatic weapons and beyond. So why doesn’t the NRA et al. go there? The fact that they don’t is evidence of the deeper fact that they are operating a p.r. campaign, not a serious argument. Of course most sane people know this already–but the millions who’ve been made functionally insane by Fox/NRA/EIB Network propaganda over the past two decades now have no idea what’s going on.

  328. bill said,

    January 28, 2013 at 15:01

    Just saw the map: Forward to the 5th Century BC! (So what if I’m late and everybody’s already gone home?)

  329. Rana said,

    February 4, 2013 at 1:13

    This does not mean a state of paranoia but it includes, for example, not getting too close to alleys or other positions from which you can be ambushed. It also means looking around you when you are handling your car keys in a parking lot. Violent criminals often avoid people who are clearly alert; they, like all predators in the animal kingdom, don’t want to take a chance with anybody or anything that might hurt them.

    So, basically, the state in which almost every female human over the age of puberty lives in, as an ordinary, unremarkable aspect of daily life. What a wuss this person is, that he needs a high-load automatic weapon to feel safe in a situation that teen-age girls and little old ladies negotiate without a second thought.

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