Dec
20

Hate. All of My Hate.




Posted at 23:10 by Cerberus

The long awaited Sandy Hook post… yeah… Sometimes I hate my life.

P.S. Trust the motherfucking shorters!

Helen Pow, Daily Fail:
Should Call of Duty Be Banned? Sandy Hook massacre reignites debate over violent video games that arm players with automatic weapons

Shorter (or the last port before Jungle):

  • Violent Vijeo Games caused this latest mass murder. Violent Vijeo Games have caused every mass murder.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…

Gene Schwimmer, American Anchor:
What if Vicki Soto Had Been Armed?

Shorter (or the last port before Jungle):

  • We should just arm the fuck out of teachers instead of doing anything real to stop gun violence. Also, Mitt Romney was right, gun violence is caused by single mothers.

rrrrrrrrTikrrrrrrrrTikrrrrrrrrTikrrrrr…

Jerold Levoritz, American Wanker:
A Proper Response to the Massacre of Innocents

Shorter (or the last port before Jungle):

  • Wouldn’t it be better for everyone if every time our paranoid killing machines went on a murder rampage we all quietly turned our backs and pretended it never happened?

rrrrrTik(grind)rrrrrrrTik(grind)rrrrrrTik(grind)…

Jeanne Donovan, American Canker:
A Teacher’s Oath

Shorter (or the last port before Jungle):

  • Truly, isn’t the most appropriate time to talk about what greedy vile overpaid wastes of humanity public school teachers are immediately after a tragedy where said underpaid underappreciated teachers risked and lost their lives to protect their kids?

GYYYYYYAAAAAHHHHH!

Flames… Flames on the side of my face… breathing hot…

Charlotte Allen, National Die! Die! Die!:
Newtown Answers

Verbatim (or the last port before Jungle):

  • There was not a single adult male on the school premises when the shooting occurred. In this school of 450 students, a sizeable number of whom were undoubtedly 11- and 12-year-old boys (it was a K–6 school), all the personnel — the teachers, the principal, the assistant principal, the school psychologist, the “reading specialist” — were female. There didn’t even seem to be a male janitor to heave his bucket at Adam Lanza’s knees. Women and small children are sitting ducks for mass-murderers. The principal, Dawn Hochsprung, seemed to have performed bravely. According to reports, she activated the school’s public-address system and also lunged at Lanza, before he shot her to death. Some of the teachers managed to save all or some of their charges by rushing them into closets or bathrooms. But in general, a feminized setting is a setting in which helpless passivity is the norm. Male aggression can be a good thing, as in protecting the weak — but it has been forced out of the culture of elementary schools and the education schools that train their personnel. Think of what Sandy Hook might have been like if a couple of male teachers who had played high-school football, or even some of the huskier 12-year-old boys, had converged on Lanza.

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THAT’S IT!

That’s Fucking IT!

SANDY HOOK! As if there was even a fraction of a doubt remaining that the 27% of our melting pot that is the right-wing even retained a picoliter of their humanity, we get this nice encapsulated proof. Even when the victims are white, blonde, little first graders from a “good” neighborhood, they just can’t resist. See, someone might start looking at their penis substitutes as a bad thing. Or maybe even start seriously discussing how violence and hatred towards women tends to inevitably lead to these sorts of tragedies.

Sure, for every other sane nation on the planet, this sort of thing is the no-snooze-button alarm clock that forces them to wake up and smell the hallow-point bullets, but not us here in America. We get to chat about teh vijeo games and how much more we need to turn our schools into police states.

And on that note, what the fuck is up with that goddamn impulse. Every fucking time there’s one of these shootings, we inevitably circle around to only talking about how to make life more miserable, regulated, and abusive for the victims. How there need to be armed security guards, locked and barred doors, mandatory metal detectors, armed teachers, 12-year-olds hiding in sniper nests… All the things that don’t actually make the kids safer, but do disproportionately get used to punish non-conformity.

All because it is simply inconceivable that we could in any slight, minor, infinitesimal way inconvenience the people who ACTUALLY COMMIT THESE MURDERS.

Oh, the rights of children to not be treated as criminals simply because they had the bad taste to get shot in a way inconvenient to the narratives of right-wing gun fetishists are mere trivia to be discarded at the drop of the hat compared to the immutable rights of psychotics to own a bigger arsenal than the armories of some small nations in a desperate attempt to make their penises seem bigger.

And I’m fucking sick of it.

I’m fucking sick of there being no goddamn hope to ever actually address the issues of unlimited access to easy-use death machines, the macho femininity-fearing culture that surrounds them (and ensures that in nearly every one of these tragedies, a woman (usually one the shooter knew personally) dies first and women die proportionately more), and the way blame usually just falls on the victims for not “protecting themselves” “better”.

I hate that we never actually discuss policy for improving mental health access and public services in this country, after blaming the “lone gunman’s” “inscrutable” actions on him being “crazy”.

I hate that we never talk about how these shooters are almost universally a him and extremely often a white him to boot. I hate how that inevitably leads everyone to dodge away from actually looking at the tactics that dominant groups use to keep lesser groups oppressed and fearful and don’t at all connect them to other terrorism attempts using other weapons like bombings or violence by police.

I hate that we’ve internalized defeat on the gun control issue so strongly that many of us have even given up trying to fix these issues.

I hate that we’ve decided as a culture that nearly monthly tributes of innocent lives slaughtered in legally-purchased assault weapon fire by some punching-down piece of shit wearing tactical body armor is just “the new normal” all of us need to get used to as the price we pay for… reasons that are surely not stupid.

I hate that these ghoulish gun fetishists use the success of programs targeting poverty, racism, etc… in the inner cities to reduce the homicide rates to try and excuse their periodic murder sprees and pretend that they are related to one another. I hate that they follow that up with immediately assuming that the murder rate must be going up in “those districts” because “you-know-who” live there.

And on that note…

Those of you who read this blog and consider themselves responsible gun owners and gun users, I’m extremely sorry, but you’ll want to just skip ahead for this next bit, because you’re not going to like it at all.

All gone?

Okay, here we go:

(deep breath)

NO ONE, INSIDE OF THIS COUNTRY, OUTSIDE OF A MILITARY BASE (and outside trained public officials like specialty police officers and secret service agents), NEEDS A GUN! THERE IS NO REAL COMPELLING REASON FOR CIVILIANS TO OWN FIREARMS IN THIS DAY AND AGE!

Not one, single solitary reason. Oh sure, there’s a lot of grasped straws, a lot of reasons that are even now bubbling to the surface, demanding to be said.

And they’re all bullshit.

1. No one really needs a gun for hunting, because no one in this country needs to hunt in this day and age in order to survive. Oh sure, there may be people who do hunt and in fact eat what they hunt and all power to them. But if they were suddenly deprived of their firearms by a firearm removing fairy, they wouldn’t suddenly starve to death.

And that’s because we live in a modern world where it is nearly impossible to “go off the grid”. If one is close enough to civilization to keep the ammo topped off, one is close enough to go to a supermarket and buy one’s daily bread as it were. And even supposing that meat was critical to life, we live in an era where factory farming sadly has made meat cheap and plentiful to even the most remote wilderness area. And even if you wanted to go self-sufficient, it’s much better to grow crops and set traps for small game (or use a fucking bow and arrow or a pit trap if you really need that fucking deer head on the wall).

Fuck, even the arguments that we need to hunt because prey populations are out-of-whack to sustainability only exists because fucking bastards with guns have been shooting all the predator species in the area in order to “protect” their livestock and homes. And again, the solution in the meantime would probably best be served by government officials working in accordance with environmentalists who know exactly how much game needs to be culled to protect the herd and how to do so in a way that’s best sustaining for said herd and protects their biodiversity.

2. No one needs a gun for collections. I mean, no offense to the collectors looking for historic value or just liking the aesthetics, but hobbies are just that. And frankly, let’s be honest. There’s no fucking reason any “collector” needs to have ammo stored in the same place as their “collection” unless their “collection” is better known as an “armory”.

3. No one needs a fucking gun for self-defense.

I’ll repeat that. No one needs a gun for self-defense.

No one.

Not home defense, not personal defense, not defense against some mystical horde of rampaging black people or magical tyrannical government that is polite enough to come in troops of nicely organized poorly armored stormtroopers.

And the fact that the gun fetishists convinced everyone this was a legitimate reason for gun ownership is one of the true marvels of advertising if there ever was one.

When did we suddenly decide that the adequate cost for breaking into someone’s home to cart off their insurance-covered entertainment center was death? That it was perfectly okay to murder a person in cold blood simply because they inconvenienced your property? That in the grim calculus of life: human being < things ?

And more importantly when did we decide that this cowardly “commit a larger crime to defend oneself against a lesser one” was such a no-duh that we should just gloss over whether it was even a good method in dissuading that lesser crime?

As the statistics continually show, guns are most deadly to the ones that own them. A gun owned by someone “trying to defend their home” is infinitely more likely to die by said gun than get to use it in a tense Dirty Harry standoff with the mythical murder-rapist just looking to sneak into the homes of pussy liberals. Suicide rates are more likely than homicide, accidents more likely than homicide, and homicide by a fellow family member or someone using your arsenal way way higher than homicide by home-invading rapists.

And it’s fucking obvious in retrospect. People invading homes tend to be desperate people who aren’t looking to hurt people, but just looking for some easy cash to help prolong a fix. The only people who are specifically looking to enter your home to do harm to someone tend to be people one already knows, and thus people who know where the firearms are kept to arm them in their little vengeance mission against the woman who wronged them.

At the same time, guns and other weapons are an easy escalation in a volatile situation. Are you depressed and having suicidal ideation? Well, here’s a weapon that will kill you instantly with very little chance of pain or slow death. Are you angry at someone and feeling hurt and powerless? Oh hey, here’s a weapon designed to make you feel powerful that can unleash death with the slightest twitch. Are you bristling at how that ungrateful sow can even think of leaving you? Well, putting that bitch in her place is a mere finger’s breadth away.

And don’t even get me started on the “tyrannical government” shit. There is no way even the most well-armed psychotic is going to be able to do shit against the US government if it decides to kill them. We have fucking flying killbots and bombs that can eliminate whole cities, your peashooter ain’t going to do shit.

And let’s be honest, if the government really turned fascist on us, there’s no hope in the universe that you’d be on the side of the people.

Cause that’s the other elephant in the room. That the people who blather on and on about how great guns are against tyranny are the same fuckers who fucking worship tyranny when it actually happens. When Bush was making mincemeat of the Constitution, did any of the militia men march in the streets protesting? No. They were cheering the call to war and masturbating to which caliber of assault weapon poor inner city kids would be using over there in dem foreigny parts.

We never see them actually concerned over the size of the military and demanding that it be shrunk. We never hear them discussing how problematic it is that we’ve allowed the business of war and murder to become nearly automated and detached from its terrible aftermath. We didn’t see them rioting in the streets when the National Guard was treated like just another division of the US Army.

Because that’s the deep dark secret at the heart of it all. The gun fetishists are just standard-level fascists and terrorists trying to hide underneath arguments they know are distractions.

They aren’t protesting military buildup and the traps inherent in calls for patriotism. They aren’t trying to address the issues of sexism, violence against women, domestic violence, etc… while they use the statistics to argue that more women should be armed. They aren’t toiling with the radicals to try and address issues of poverty, rational drug treatment, public mental health services, strong social safety nets, free housing for the homeless that supposedly underlie their supposed deep-seated fear that some swarthy type is going to break into their home and touch their stuff. They aren’t demanding an end to racism, policing their communities for bigotries, and addressing the social ills that would be behind the totally not-racist belief in an inevitable “invasion of swarthy types looting and murdering”.

They aren’t doing anything real other than trying to create more and more justifications of when it’s all right to commit cold blooded murder. Hey is it okay if like I’m attacked and I need a weapon to save my own life? Yes? Okay, that makes sense. Hey, is it okay if they broke into my home and like threatened me or something? Yes? Cool. Hey, what about if like they just happened to barely cross into my home and like I said they threatened me? Still? Awesome! Hey, what about if like I’m on the street and I see some swarthy type eating Skittles and talking smack about me for being a creepy bigot? Still, yes?!? Hot dog!

And we see it with the alliances made. Every time there is a mass shooting, by the most unforgivable terrorists and mass murderers, targeting those who could have no hope at all of fighting back.

Is their ire for the shooters who make their community look like murder-fetishists getting off on the fantasy of the world creating a scenario where it is acceptable to kill a person? No. And their sympathy is never with said bastard’s victims. No, it’s with the killers themselves. That’s who they identify with. That’s who they try and distance while still embracing.

We saw it most clearly with George Zimmerman, but still again in the Aurora shooting and Sandy Hook. They identify with the paranoid psychotics acquiring an arsenal and decking themselves out with full combat body armor in order to shoot a bunch of young unarmed people.

They want to make sure their own arsenals won’t be targeted by sane condemnation for the crimes committed. They don’t want any personal responsibility or necessary hassle required by the severity of the crimes. They don’t want to regulate anything to ensure that their happy fun time penis substitute and grown-up binky can’t be used in these bimonthly mass-murder sprees. They don’t even want to self-police their community to kick these sorts of people out, because they fear that if they did, they’d be one of the ones thrown out.

They identify more with spree killers than first-graders just wanting an education. They find more common humanity with those so paranoid that a black man might touch their guns, they acquired an armory out of pure spite than with the school teachers who gave their lives so the children they were paid less than a babysitter to enrich could live. They find more kinship with those who have responded to the mass murder of children by mass purchasing the weapon he used solely because they think it pisses off liberals than with said liberals whose only objectionable crime is thinking that the regular murder of young adults and children is not an acceptable price so some people can feel slightly more confident about their toxic masculinity.

And I’m sick of it. Sick of it all.

Ugh.

All right, gun-loving readers, you can come back. If this is going to be my Sandy Hook piece (and Bob damnitt, I want this to be my only damn Sandy Hook piece), then let’s rip this… I have no curse words to adequately cover my vitriol so let’s just refer to her as a fakkkakakkkakingkkkakkker… and be done with it.

People, even unarmed people, need to fight back against criminals — because usually, no one else will. It took the police 20 minutes to arrive at Sandy Hook. By the time they got there, it was over. Cops and everybody else encourage civilians not to try to defend themselves when they are criminally assaulted. This is stupid advice. There are things you can do. Run is one of them, because most shooters can’t hit a moving target. The other, if you are in a confined space, is throw things at the killer, or try a tackle. Remember United Flight 93 on 9/11. It was a “flight of heroes” because a bunch of guys on that plane did what they could with what they had. They probably prevented the destruction of the White House or the Capitol.

It is an odd dance for the paranoid gun-nut, isn’t it? Oh, those dastardly nogoodniks are such all-powerful supermen that truly only the most powerful machinery of death in the world could be enough to stop their slavering lusts for murder and foul deeds… but they are also easily-frightened chickens who will back down with the very slightest bit of confrontation.

I mean, I’m sure that’s a very comforting thought to the various patriarchal toads freaking out in the harsh sands of toxic masculinity, worrying about how one could possibly excise enough “femininity” to retain one’s precious “man card” and avoid the painful and often murderous punishments given to women and those deemed “honorary women”. That there’s some mystical uber-bad-guy out there worse than 12 Dolph-Lundgren-in-Rocky-IV’s who can be warded off merely by the smell of gunpowder emanating from your various safe rooms, but out here in the real world, that ain’t how it works.

And let’s also just take a pause here and note just exactly what is being said here. Cause we get this after every mass shooting.

She’s saying that it’s the victims’ fault that they got killed.

It’s the same bullshit victim-blaming horseshit we get after a woman finds herself a victim of domestic violence or a rape. All about how she should have not worn that skirt or been out drinking or trusted that guy or glossed over the warning signs or pissed him off or…

Given that the majority of all those shot in each of these shootings tends to be women, this shouldn’t be entirely surprising but it’s worth nothing anyways.

There is no possible way a victim could ever fulfill all these conflicting demands on how they should have reacted in the fear and surprise of the moment.

If they successfully hide away, waiting for trained professionals to handle the problem, then they are condemned for not running. If you point out that the ones who ran were gunned down, then they condemn them for not having enough men on the property. If you point out that there were men there, including a male janitor who informed the police of the situation or that the “manly men” who were regarded as heroes in the Aurora shooting did the same thing as the female school teachers at Sandy Hook, they claim the men should have rushed the gunman. If you note that that would have gotten more of them killed or note incidents like the brave tackling of Gifford’s shooter by her gay staffer that saved more lives but not all, they’ll claim that a properly armed concealed carry macho man would have been able to plug the killer in one shot. If you note that there was such a person at the Gifford’s shooting, but they were forced to realize that adding more firearms to a chaotic situation does butt-all to help people, they claim that what we really need is more entrenchment, more fear, more people hiding in their homes stockpiling weapons against all that fear out there like proper “brave” patriots.

And if we are to note that Nancy Lanza did just that…

That she did as they requested her to? Became fearful of the black man who was going to take her guns when society collapsed? Who believed you that an armory in her heavily secured home was the only way to protect herself from all that “bad stuff” out there that was a mere whisker’s breath from trying to break in and harm her? Who had an entire arsenal to protect her from specifically for the situation when someone would come creeping up to her and attempt to murder her in her home?

Well, then we move on to talking about how crazy he was what with the violent vijeo games and all. Because guns don’t protect. Can’t protect. Anymore than aggressive invasion as a military tactic will make one safer from foreign or domestic terrorism.

And because as long as we’re talking about what the victims needed to do or why we should just ignore the trends, we’re distracted from the real issues of over-armament of the most deranged citizens who are deliberately told to be as fearful as possible and a stew of toxic masculinity that views murder devices as the best possible way to ensure the feminine cooties can’t infect you.

Parents of sick children need to be realistic about them. I know at least two sets of fine and devoted parents who have had the misfortune to raise sons who were troubled for genetic reasons beyond anyone’s control. Either of those boys could have been an Adam Lanza. You simply can’t give a non-working, non-school-enrolled 20-year-old man free range of your home, much less your cache of weapons. You have to set boundaries. You have to say, “You can’t live here anymore — you’re an adult, and it’s time for you to be a man. We’ll give you all the support you need, but we won’t be enablers.” Unfortunately, the idea of being an “adult” and a “man” once one has reached physical maturity seems to have faded out of our coddling culture.

It really is time we stopped coddling the childish among us, isn’t it?

We just can’t afford as a society to babysit the paranoid violent delusions and murder fantasies of these little troglodytes anymore. We just can’t keep whispering, “it’s okay, you can fear that femininity is such a corrupting influence in your life, that you feel you need a murder stick capable of disgorging hundreds of high speed pieces of metal in a matter of seconds to feel safe from it”. We can’t keep going, “nah, it’s totally cool that you live in daily fear that you may one day have to pay for a legacy of supporting the brutal oppression of various groups of people merely for the color of the skin and that you stockpile as much death machinery as possible in the hopes that you can one day use it to gun down said people by the hordes for daring to ‘rise up’ against you”. We can’t keep cuddling you in the night and telling you that of course it makes sense to lock oneself into hyper-paranoid gated communities bristling with guns and ammunition because you think there’s a tiny chance that a poor person somewhere might think it’s okay to touch your stuff. We can’t afford to feed your delusions that it’s okay to own your wife and children as inferior possessions to the weapons that will later be used in your court case. We can’t keep playing along with your lifeplay fantasy world where you would totally be able to John Rambo a tyrannical government or an alien invasion all by your lonesome.

We can’t keep losing children and sacrificing their rights and dignities because you need something smaller, weaker, and less powerful than your self to destroy in order to feel more like a man, in order to feel like you can become infamous enough to remember, in order for you to deal with the ennui of being overprivileged in America.

We have too many people with too many real problems and who have too many real legitimate fears of living their lives in accordance with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness exacerbated by you and your gang of petty fascists and the way you use a supposed fondness for a Second Amendment that never protected guns the way you claim* in order to support legalized murder, terrorism, and the fear to socially strengthen positions of fascism.

We can’t keep balking ourselves from everything, because we’re afraid some fucker with a gun is going to take offense and kill us and everyone at our work place for it.

We just can’t keep doing it.

And if you’re so sad about that. That maybe this time, you really will have to pay a price for gleefully abusing the privileges you have conned us into supporting.

Maybe you should have thought of that before your first responses to the brutal murder of children was to reveal yourself as exactly the sort of deranged howler monkeys who should never be allowed to carry anything more dangerous than a blunt spork.

So now, you pack of braying fakkkakakkkakingkkkakkkers, sit down, shut the fuck up, and accept your little wrist slap that will hardly address the meat of your sins before we start deciding that breaking down your doors, taking all your guns and melting them down in your front lawns starts sounding like the better option.


‘Shorter’ concept created by Daniel Davies and perfected by Elton Beard. That’s it. I’m done with this. Next post isn’t even going to reference Sandy Hook. I don’t care if a wingnut manages to blame the shooting on gay aborting baby seals who support slavery reparations. I’m fucking done.** We are aware of all Internet traditions.™

*The Second Amendment protects a well-regulated militia, full stop. Aka, it protects the notion of a national guard, heavily regulated by the state, not the notion that every single American should have the right to a Howitzer and a tactical nuke because mommy, someday a black man might break into my home and rape my white female property.

**I warned you all that all my Sandy Hook posts were just devolving into barely coherent streams of pure rage and hate. And yet you didn’t believe me.

541 Comments »

  1. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:26

    GO CERB!!!!!

    Barely coherent streams of pure rage and hate is what is fucking warranted.

  2. bbkf said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:28

    fshew! imma have to wait until tonight to delve into this bad boy…it looks as though you may have outdone yourself, cerb…

  3. bbkf said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:29

    and yes, based on the titles, i am fairly pretty certain that i will trust the shorters in this instance…

  4. gocart mozart said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:31

    Fuckit! Let’s just arm the six year olds.

  5. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:37

    You’ve lost me on this one. When other people decide what I “need” and write laws around what they decide I do or do not need I get very fucking scared. Banning all guns is an extreme and overly broad reaction.

    The problem is not only guns. The problem is much bigger and, in different specifics, both more and less tractable than repealing the second amendment. When you get right down to it, focusing on the totally impossible idea that we have to do something radical about guns ownership is counter-productive to making real, effective changes happen.

  6. bbkf said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:38

    How there need to be armed security guards, locked and barred doors, mandatory metal detectors, armed teachers, 12-year-olds hiding in sniper nests…

    it is the ultimate in cognitive dissonance…how many times do we hear about the POLICE STATE THE FEDS AND BRONCO SHOVING DOWN OUR THROATS!!! it’s always grim and doom and gloom until it comes to gun control…then it’s hunky dorry to have armed guards virtually everywhere…

  7. gocart mozart said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:38

    “•There was not a single adult male on the school premises when the shooting occurred.[This is false, there were some men in the school, just not in the vicinity of the shooter] In this school of 450 students, a sizeable number of whom were undoubtedly 11- and 12-year-old boys (it was a K–6 school), [False again, it was K-4 so the wimmins wouldahada rely on the protection of the burly 8-9 year olds.”

    Google is hard

  8. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:41

    I am pretty certain it was the high velocity bullets that killed all those people. I don’t care HOW hard he threw them, I find it hard to believe that video games have the ability to kill anyone. EVEN if he used DVDs and threw them like throwing stars.

  9. Bitter Scribe said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:42

    I try not to wish physical harm on those who disagree with me politically. But shit like this makes me really want to “arm” these smug motherfuckers with a bucket of dirty mop water and put them up against a maniac with an assault rifle.

  10. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:43

    this argument is so stoopid. From the news, it seems like that “feminized environment” contained any number of heroic women who threw themselves directly into the line of fire.

    In fact, I will go farther; I’ll bet any given HE-MAN she puts up would have run and hid rather than doing that.

    I mean, does anybody doubt what some douche like Ted Nugent would have done? I mean, he SHIT HIS PANTS rather than go fight a war.

  11. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:44

    [imma go back and read the rest now. I'll bet Cerb already said these things]

  12. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:46

    The problem is not only guns. The problem is much bigger and, in different specifics, both more and less tractable than repealing the second amendment. When you get right down to it, focusing on the totally impossible idea that we have to do something radical about guns ownership is counter-productive to making real, effective changes happen.

    The Rude pundit and Gin And Tacos both had some very good suggestions on ways to help control guns, that did not even come close to a blanket ban.

  13. mat said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:51

    You know goddamn well that every cubicle in every kooky right-wing think tank is occupied 24/7 right now to create new and brilliant sophistry to deflect blame away from AR-15 murder machines. The tired old NRA memes of days gone by just don’t work.

    In the meantime we get a delicious daily platter of far-right nuttiness, irrationality, and complete insanity by the wackos holding on to the old memes desperately and dispensing them with an almost freakishly furious desperation, like retreating troops throwing everything but the kitchen sink in the path of the enemy winning the war.

    One wonders, when things quiet down–and that always happens after these awful, horrible, utterly heart sinking monstrosities–what the NRA, Heritage Foundation, Cato Institute, and other havens of wingnuttery will start spewing to regain the confidence and swagger of their kooky constituency.

    Any day now we shall see. What buzzwords and catch phrases will they pound, Bolshevik-like, into the brains of the masses?

  14. gocart mozart said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:51

    From the first link:
    “Obsessed: Gunman Adam Lanza, 20, pictured right, was reportedly ‘obsessed’ with military shooters’ game Call of Duty, left, which features assault weapons like the Bushmaster AR-15.”

    Know what else featured a Bushmaster AR-15? His mom’s fucking house!

  15. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:53

    Interestingly, re: the argument about self-defense. Charlotte Allen actually popped up in the comments at Pierce’s joint, when someone snarked that she had probably never had a gun pointed at her or ‘felt a rapist’s weight” to tell her story of an attempted rape.

    The thing is, he armed himself with a knife from her kitchen, and the rape was thwarted because she fought back using simple self defense techniques.

    A gun did not save her. In fact, if there had been a gun, the rapist could have used that instead of the knife and the results might have been more tragic.

    Of course, the idea that her OWN STORY kind of invalidates the sef-defense justification was lost…

  16. Cerberus said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:54

    Sorry, Pup, but it’s true. People may like guns. Want guns. Love the hobbies possible with guns. But no one in the boring civilian non-law-enforcement world really needs them.

    And it’s the way that guns are treated as a need, as something akin to how a fish needs water or a depressed person needs anti-depressants, the more we allow the conversation to drift away from the real social issues that underlie gun violence and the knee-jerk apologies (and knee-jerk defensiveness) made for it.

    Cause if we acknowledge that guns are a “want”. A want that may be not necessarily evil or wrong or even remotely odd or noteworthy for many. Then we can really dissect and destroy all the negative horrible reasons for wanting to own a gun, the wants that do injustice and harm to everyone in the subculture and sadly also those without.

    Cause where we are now, all the people who want a firearm because of toxic masculinity or racist fears or murderous stockpiling or deranged breaks from reality and an addiction to a culture at war with reality get to hide behind calling it a “need” and we all tiptoe around discussing it because why are we so mean as to take away something someone needs.

    Especially when it is framed as a matter of life or death.

    And honestly, right now, the gun subculture doesn’t have a hill to stand on. Especially with the shit their defenders are pulling right now.

    But rest assured, Pup, my rage and hate have little power. There will be no moves made against gun owners, not even the slightest inconvenience to the easy acquisition and proliferation of arms. That subculture will win… again. And the next time. And the time after that. And so on and so forth.

  17. Cerberus said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:01

    And I should also add, that yes, of course it isn’t the guns that are the chief problem. The chief problem is all the toxic masculinity, fascist leanings, and terrorist dominant-group enforcement malarky that calls itself the “gun culture” and feeds into these types of shootings.

    But even when liberals are super polite about how we’re not going to at all dent or take away their penis sticks, the gun owners still whine like spoiled brats when we try and deconstruct and analyze all that underlying garbage. Perhaps a little reminder that they don’t get to dictate the conversation just because they’re willing to kill people and have the tools to do so would go a long way to really rooting out all that other garbage.

  18. mat said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:02

    I’m with Cerberus.

    The NRA has spent hundreds of millions the last couple of generations romanticizing firearms far beyond their rational utility. It’s been one of the most successful–and largely unchecked–PR campaigns of our lifetimes.

    They have created a neurotic and irrational need for these murder machines that goes FAR beyond any rational or logical utility, and furthermore their professionally-trained sophists and PR specialists have planted a multitude of simple, logical-sounding, and comprehensive catch phrases and talking points that any half-witted Goober can memorize and recall, to the point it has become holy writ to most of them.

    Brilliant. Creepy. True.

  19. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:07

    I find it hard to believe that video games have the ability to kill anyone. EVEN if he used DVDs and threw them like throwing stars.

    Guns don’t kill people, coaster-sized pieces of shiny plastic weighing less than an ounce kill people.

  20. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:13

    I hate disagreeing with Pup Max, but I gotta do it here.

    If we can agree that more guns equals more gun violence, then enacting legislation which reduces the prevalence of guns is reasonable and a societal good.

    If it is just a question of tactics, the best approach to reducing the staggering volume of firearms in circulation, then I am all ears to hear suggestions.

  21. mat said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:17

    I’ve been a regular commenter on Sadly, No–though somewhat intermittently–for over ten years, but this is the first time I’ve pimped me ole bloggy.

    This was compiled from my Facebook posts and comments the day of this tragedy, mainly as counterpoints to so many of my so-called “friends” who espouse as much fervent worship for firearms as they do for Jesus. Their immediate retreat to the NRA talking point list that pops up after every one of these mass murders, and the absolute fucking exactness of their wording to this vile sophistry, made me write the vicious words contained in the linked essay.

    PS–I was “Sergeant Macho Grade School Hero” in the previous thread.

  22. Just Alison, who can't be buggered thinking of something clever to write said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:19

    Cerb, that was sup-Cerb. I’m with you, although I could never have articulated it so brilliantly and so bitingly.

    Think of what Sandy Hook might have been like if a couple of male teachers who had played high-school football, or even some of the huskier 12-year-old boys, had converged on Lanza.

    Oh yah, ‘cos a couple of ‘husky’ pre-teen children would have just made all the difference to some maniac swinging an automatic weapon. Would have been a bit more hair on the wall, is all.

    Fucking arseholes. How dare they, how dare they, even think of hinting that the slightest smidgeon of fault lay with the teachin’ wimmins, who didn’t have enough bollocks to scare the shooter (despite a couple of them actually throwing themselves at him, in a non-testicular way).

  23. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:20

    The chief problem is all the toxic masculinity

    The gun manufacturers rely on and reinforce this to sell weapons. I mean “man card?” JESUS.

  24. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:22

    Sorry, Pup, but it’s true. People may like guns. Want guns. Love the hobbies possible with guns. But no one in the boring civilian non-law-enforcement world really needs them.

    i agree with a lot of what you’re saying cerb, and it’s true, no civilian needs a gun and it is definitely a ‘want’…i have no problem with hunters…hubbkf grew up hunting and fishing, it’s a big part of him…he’s always loved the outdoors, especially the national wildlife refuge that is in our backyard and nowadays, he mostly shoots things with his camera only. much as i hate guns, i wouldn’t take this away from him…it’s one of those things some people don’t understand…i don’t fully, either…but there’s a lot of things i don’t understand…

    we have shotguns which are locked in a cabinet up in our bedroom…and the ammo is locked up separately and as much as i hate guns, they don’t bother me…our son now owns a handgun, which i absolutely hate…he does live in a pretty sketchy neighborhood, but again things aren’t worth killing for…and one of the things i hate the most about them is that so many people’s lives can be irreversibly ruined in a matter of seconds…even the feel of them is too brutal for me…although i have been known to plink at a few tin cans in my day…

    and i don’t get gun collectors…but then i guess i don’t get hardcore collecting of anything…

    but, i know there are guns and there will be guns and all i can hope for is that we finally get some sane regulations, mental health is taken more seriously and that the fetishizing and manly man bullshit culture is ridiculed into oblivion…

  25. gocart mozart said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:22

    WTF
    “Parents are also realizing that their children are being politically indoctrinated, primarily towards socialist goals. They are deprived of historical truths such as the important role black Americans played during Reconstruction.”

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/12/a_teachers_oath.html#

    Oh I see, link to Beck about leftists (Woodrew Wilson) are the real racists and just shoot me.

  26. Just Alison, who can't be buggered thinking of something clever to write said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:23

    Oh, and a specially fervent acknowledgement of the irony surrounding their “We needs guns to protect us from gubmint tyranny! So have security lockdowns and armed guards and sniper towers and arm toddlers and so on and so forth!” nonsense. They encapsulate what they’re most afraid of (or what they claim to be most afraid of).

  27. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:23

    Oh I see, link to Beck about leftists (Woodrew Wilson) are the real racists and just shoot me.

    Well, THAT’S kind of an unfortunate turn of phrase.

  28. gocart mozart said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:26

    “Well, THAT’S kind of an unfortunate turn of phrase.”

    At least I didn’t call for my own head to be on a pike because that would be wrong.

  29. Geoffrey said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:28

    Beautiful. Spittle-flecked rage at our national stupidity is warranted. I’m even linking on FB (with a warning that there might be a naughty word or two here).

  30. Bitter Scribe said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:31

    They are deprived of historical truths such as the important role black Americans played during Reconstruction.

    Right. You can’t have lynchings without victims.

  31. gocart mozart said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:31

    “We needs guns to protect us from gubmint tyranny!”

    Also, lock up people with aspergers in insane asylums and strip search the kiddies and ban video games.

  32. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:32

    “We needs guns to protect us from gubmint tyranny!

    this is the argument that cracks me up…ooooooh…scary gubmint…oooga booga! really? it’s really a tell on their own limited reasoning skills that they haven’t advanced beyond, ‘let’s shoot ‘em up, real good…’

  33. gocart mozart said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:34

    “Imagine how different race relations might be today if “The Colored Patriots of the American Revolution” had not been dropped from the curriculum, and if a racist had not been elected President. I suspect race hustlers plying their trade now would be out of business, including Barack Obama.”
    http://jeffersonsrebels.blogspot.com/2010/06/lost-history-neglected-black-voices.html
    [WARNING: Link contains Glenn Beck]

  34. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:37

    [WARNING: Link contains Glenn Beck]

    the last time i went near beckistan, my computer contracted a virus…no way, no how will i go near there again…

  35. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:38

    “We needs guns to protect us from gubmint tyranny!”

    Also, lock up people with aspergers in insane asylums and strip search the kiddies and ban video games.

    i wonder which one is more evil: gubmint or mental illness?

  36. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:40

    i wonder which one is more evil: gubmint or mental illness?

    Government-funded mental health care.

  37. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:43

    Imagine how different race relations might be today if “The Colored Patriots of the American Revolution” had not been dropped from the curriculum

    I imagine the angry squealing that always occurs during February would be extended into the rest of the school year.

  38. gocart mozart said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:45

    Do you know who else are left-wingers, I mean aside from Nazis and Woodrew Wilson obviously?
    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/12/conservative-bikers-turn-out-to-protect-newtown-mourners-from-left-wing-westboro-cult/

  39. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:48

    the last time i went near beckistan, my computer contracted a virus…no way, no how will i go near there again…

    Was just your computer sacrificing itself to save you.

    I bet you didn’t know your computer was female.

  40. gocart mozart said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:49

    “Government-funded mental health care.”

    The dad is a G.E. executive and mom had a nice divorce settlement. I’m sure Adam Lazio had excellant health insurance and reportedly he was seeing a psychiatrist. I wonder what kind of meds he was on.

  41. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:50

    Hating fags and loving Jesus are the two most obvious markers of leftism.

  42. gocart mozart said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:53

    I knew it! It was the hippies fault.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324461604578189411325231422.html?mod=hp_opinion

  43. gocart mozart said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:55

    Also this
    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/41367_Mosque_Arsonist-_I_Only_Know_What_I_Hear_on_Fox_News

  44. gocart mozart said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:57

    Do you know who else hated fags and loved Jesus?

  45. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:00

    Do you know who else hated fags and loved Jesus?

    The Cookie Monster?

    Gollum?

    Santa Claus?

  46. gocart mozart said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:01

    Ted Haggard

  47. gocart mozart said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:03

    The entire Republican House caucus + Hitler

  48. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:06

    Obvious leftists.

  49. Major Kong said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:08

    Charging the shooter worked so well for General Pickett. And that was against muzzle-loaders no less.

  50. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:09

    The 1978 Harlem Globetrotters?

  51. Another Kiwi said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:11

    Major, if he’d had 12 year old huskies it would have worked, or something.

  52. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:12

    Male aggression can be a good thing, as in protecting the weak — but it has been forced out of the culture of elementary schools and the education schools that train their personnel.

    Shorter Charlotte Allen: “The gun is good, the penis is evil bulletproof!

    Think of what Sandy Hook might have been like if a couple of male teachers who had played high-school football, or even some of the huskier 12-year-old boys, had converged on Lanza.

    The coffins would have been bigger… that’s about it.

  53. gocart mozart said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:13

    The Osmands?

  54. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:14

    Hey, if a husky 12-year old boy could have subdued Lanza, why couldn’t, say, a chunky Reese Witherspoon do the same?

    Hmmmm… it’s irresponsible not to speculate that Ross Douthat would have had an entirely different sort of encounter if it had been a husky 12-year old rather than chunky Reese Witherspoon.

  55. Another Kiwi said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:17

    Do you know who else hated fags and loved Jesus?
    George Patton?

  56. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:22

    Major Kong, Pickett’s charge would have worked!

    If his men had scramble suits…
    ~

  57. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:23

    And huskies, too.
    ~

  58. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:28

    You could throw the huskies like the crazy old lady on the Simpsons does with cats.

  59. just sayin' said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:28

    right on, and you know what else people don’t really need?

    body armour.

    that fucking kind of bulletproof body armour that all the mass murderers wear nowadays so they can’t be, you know, shot while they are busy shooting people.

    OK, I will grant you that Salman Rushdie should be allowed to have body armour, or somebody who is testifying in court against the mafia, perhaps even a woman who has a restraining order against a violent spouse.

    but for most people, there is simply no good reason to have body armor. it is a priori evidence of intent to commit a crime, like owning burglars tools.

  60. Spearhafoc, whose nym is Old English for "sparrowhawk" said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:39

    i wonder which one is more evil: gubmint or mental illness?

    Government-funded mental health care.

    I’ve been following FreeRepublic.txt on Twitter (real quotes from Freepers) and a lot of them blame “leftists” for shutting down mental hospitals. I guess Reagan, like Dubya, is an infamous lefty now.

    but for most people, there is simply no good reason to have body armor.

    What about this guy?

  61. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:47

    Watch out for the husky throw…
    ~

  62. Substance McGravitas said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:49

    a firearm removing fairy

    Tinkerbelle’s only THIS HIGH. Unlikely.

  63. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:55

    that fucking kind of bulletproof body armour that all the mass murderers wear nowadays so they can’t be, you know, shot while they are busy shooting people

    But… but… Charlotte Allen assures me that a bucket would be able to penetrate that armor.

  64. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 1:59

    Only if a man threw it.

  65. Another Kiwi said,

    December 21, 2012 at 2:06

    So the shooter bursts in, you grab your bucket or Husky and throw it at him. shooter runs away screaming. Yeah that’s how it going to go.

  66. Substance McGravitas said,

    December 21, 2012 at 2:08

    Teachers should be given unfettered access to the supply closet and DVDs of all seven seasons of MacGyver.

  67. Substance McGravitas said,

    December 21, 2012 at 2:12

    Oh, and a DVD player.

  68. Lit3Bolt said,

    December 21, 2012 at 2:12

    It should be harder to buy drugs, buy alcohol, smoke cigarettes, buy
    medicine, buy stocks, buy a blowtorch, download music, buy fertilizer,
    get credit, buy a car, rent a car, rent a UHAUL, get a job, board a
    plane, fly a plane, drive an 18 wheeler, donate an organ, apply to
    school, apply for a loan, apply for the military, apply for the
    police, apply to be a firefighter, cross the border, apply for
    welfare, ask for charity, get healthcare, get insurance, work with the
    elderly or children, cut hair, teach, practice law, file your taxes,
    vote, marry, divorce, apply for housing/apartments, open a business,
    open a franchise, get an internship, get a grant, or exercise free
    speech than it is to buy unlimited guns with unlimited ammunition from private dealers with no license.
    .

  69. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    December 21, 2012 at 2:14

    It’d work fine, A.K.

    As long as all our teachers (aka moochers and union thugs) are taught the weirding way.
    ~

  70. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    December 21, 2012 at 2:23

    On the subject of why the fuck.

    Why the fuck are we selling body armor to people? Someone explain me the purpose of that shit, please. Are the deer and paper targets packing?

  71. acrannymint said,

    December 21, 2012 at 2:27

    I’m sorry to say that members of my family actually do rely on hunting and game is a needed staple of their diet for a source of protein. Otherwise, it would be lots of starch which tends to be cheap. They do garden to get the veggies.

  72. bughunter said,

    December 21, 2012 at 2:29

    I’ve been fuming all week about the unapologetic gun fetishism in this country, and the tolerance the rest of us have for it. In fact, I nearly zeroed in on that as THE reason we have so many more mass killings in this country compared to many other: it’s not just the availability of guns, but the celebration –no, make that worship– of their ability to kill more, faster and better. Cultures all over the world fetishize so many things, but ours is the ONLY one that fetishizes killing machines.

    And then just today I read this story of an abused woman threatened by a gun. The man with the gun in that story wasn’t a gun fetishist, he was just disturbed. And he came *this* close to killing the woman he threatened. Without easy access to a gun, he may have chose some other way to threaten her, but none so instantly deadly.

    And this site with statistics about the actual effects of living in a firearm-saturated culture. There’s no denying that the easy and nearly universal access to guns, nearly unique to the US, creates countless victims that otherwise would not have faced injury and death of any kind.

    So no, it’s not just the fetish. It’s the mass-production and mass-marketing of guns. The fetishists feed the gun makers, and the corporate gun dealers are more than thrilled to feed the fetish.

  73. bughunter, making up the new rules, said,

    December 21, 2012 at 2:48

    Gun fetishists are the real terrorists, responsible for more homicides each year than 9/11.

    If guns don’t kill people, then guns don’t make you free, either.

    You will never have access to the kinds of weapons you need to protect you from modern tyranny.

    The second amendment explicitly states its premise of a “well-regulated militia.” So then let’s really regulate guns and people’s access to them: if you’re not a member of a government-regulated militia then you can have a hunting weapon only. Pick one and only one: either a 20-gauge shotgun or a bolt-action rifle, neither of which can hold more than three rounds, nor have a removable magazine, nor be semi-automatic in any fashion.

    The 2nd amendment says nothing about ammunition. Strictly regulate all ammunition now.

  74. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 21, 2012 at 2:53

    I’m sorry to say that members of my family actually do rely on hunting and game is a needed staple of their diet for a source of protein. Otherwise, it would be lots of starch which tends to be cheap. They do garden to get the veggies.

    That’s nothing to apologize about. There is a place for responsible gun ownership. I want “regulation”, as the Second Amendment suggests. The problem is that there are a lot of sociopathic yahoos who own multiple firearms because they fantasize about shooting ni*CLANG* in their Turner Diaries “end of civilization” dreams. The shooter’s mother seems to have been one of these. She definitely wasn’t a responsible gun owner.

  75. Helmut Monotreme said,

    December 21, 2012 at 2:53

    but for most people, there is simply no good reason to have body armor. it is a priori evidence of intent to commit a crime, like owning burglars tools.

    I’d rather there were a national lobbying group dedicated to the ownership and use of body armor. Instead we have the NRA. Owning body armor isn’t a priori evidence of intent to commit a crime, it is evidence that the purchaser knows how many guns and bullets exist. It’s a priori evidence that the purchaser realizes they aren’t bullet proof. Even the heaviest body armor will only protect against handgun fire, and even so it’s supposed to be like getting hit in the chest with a hammer.
    My thought is that I’d rather be harder to kill than own a firearm. Of course there’s no guarantee i’d be wearing it when it would do any good. Even assuming I would ever need it in the first place. When I get saddened by how many people in this country are packing, I wish I was bullet proof.

  76. bughunter, making up the new rules, said,

    December 21, 2012 at 2:54

    Too little, too late, Ann. You’ve been out-wingnutted already. It’s normally very sad to see an attention whore be mostly ignored… but in this case go fuck yourself anyway, Ann.

  77. bughunter said,

    December 21, 2012 at 2:58

    I’d go even further and say ban all guns from civilians now, a la Mexico. But look at fucking Mexico.

    There are enough firearms already on the streets and in private arsenals now that we have a serious practical problem: even if we banned all guns tomorrow, it wouldn’t make a difference.

    Gee, perhaps we should threaten to take their guns away, too… just consider it a gedankenexperiment.

  78. Smut Clyde said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:01

    you grab your bucket or Husky and throw it at him

    AK refers of course to the Husqvarna sewing machine which is a prohibited weapon in NZ.

  79. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:02

    I’d go even further and say ban all guns from civilians now, a la Mexico. But look at fucking Mexico.

    Of course, they get all their guns from us. For all the right-wing bluster about “fast and furious”, those guns that were used to kill the border patrol agent were purchased legally because right-wingers have ensured that our gun laws are lax to the point of nonexistence in many states.

  80. Smut Clyde said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:06

    EVEN if he used DVDs and threw them like throwing stars.
    Guns don’t kill people, coaster-sized pieces of shiny plastic weighing less than an ounce kill people.

    Tigris is clearly thinking of the alien druglord’s weapon in I Come in Peace.

  81. Just Alison, who can't be buggered thinking of something clever to write said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:09

    Poot. Re-posting this from the post below, because I’m such a twonk I forgot there was one here…

    until they get their way and disarm the people, so that they cannot fight back against government tyranny

    Because the gubmint will be totally powerless against a small bunch of rednecks with rifles. Or indeed automatic weapons. Doesn’t he know the gubmint spends upwards of a trillion dollars on weaponry etc.?

    Sigh. Isn’t it a pity that deeply stupid people can still pass their Stupid Gene on?

    PS Blog pimping for Chrissy: a somewhat bleary waffle about amnimals that hasn’t been approved by Our Great Leader (who would doubtless disapprove of me writing something less than serious and totally without footnotes).

  82. Just Alison, who can't be buggered thinking of something clever to write said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:12

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/12/a_teachers_oath.html#

    Read more? Not on your fuckin’ life, gocart, not even if you offered me screaming sex with any 5 of the sexiest men on earth and ten billion dollars to have it on.

  83. Major Kong said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:13

    New (and different) diary. Some of you have seen these pictures already.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/20/1172195/-Touring-Verdun

  84. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:14

    I’d go even further and say ban all guns from civilians now, a la Mexico. But look at fucking Mexico.

    Of course, they get all their guns from us.

    Yeah, if we were to make it harder to buy guns it would help Mexico at least as much as it would help us.

    Tigris is clearly thinking of the alien druglord’s weapon in I Come in Peace.

    That sounds really, um, great.

  85. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:17

    Because the gubmint will be totally powerless against a small bunch of rednecks with rifles. Or indeed automatic weapons. Doesn’t he know the gubmint spends upwards of a trillion dollars on weaponry etc.?

    Oddly enough, it’s those same rednecks who cry foul when defense spending is cut. The pathology runs deep in this country.

    Of course, the unstated (when they remember to be on their best behavior, that is) desire of the gun fetishists is to gun down as many black and brown people as they possibly can.

  86. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:21

    Tigris is clearly thinking of the alien druglord’s weapon in I Come in Peace.

    That sounds really, um, great.

    Needs more flying guillotine!

  87. bughunter said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:27

    Of course, they get all their guns from us.

    My point exactly. And the guns are already here, so even if banned tomorrow, it’d be as meaningless as the ban in Mexico. The only people who don’t have guns in Mexico are the exploited, victimized peasant class.

    those guns that were used to kill the border patrol agent were purchased legally because right-wingers have ensured that our gun laws are lax

    And specifically the very guns used were purchased without background checks as a private transaction, in large quantities, all very legally. The ATF agents wanted a warrant to search and question the buyer before he reached the border, but wingnut Arizona judges forbade it because FREEDOM and SECOND AMENDMENT! Of course, when one of those guns was used to kill one of the wingnuts keeping the scary brown people on their side of the fence, then it was the fault of the scary kinda-brownish-not-entirely-white person in the White House.

  88. N__B said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:30

    Major Kong –

    Verdun is one of those places (Antietam is anther, the Kew Gardens LIRR Station is a third) that I’m glad I’ve been to but I regret thinking about.

    If anyone is wondering, I’m not comparing the scope of the events at those three locations, BTW. I’m comparing my emotional reaction.

  89. Pupienus said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:32

    I hate disagreeing with Pup Max, but I gotta do it here. [citation needed]

    If we can agree that more guns equals more gun violence, then enacting legislation which reduces the prevalence of guns is reasonable and a societal good.

    1. I don’t agree that more guns necessarily equals more gun violence.
    2. Nor do I agree with the contrapositive, that fewer guns necessarily implies less gun violence.
    3. Piss off, ya Canucki wimpy socialest hoser.

  90. Mooser said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:32

    This post is un-American. Guns are people, too. In fact guns are very special people with extra rights, like the right to kill and maim. They are given this right, in spite of a few mishaps like Sandy Hook, because the gun has saved people from terrorists, rapists and murderers thousands of times, and, in an act of special generosity, has allowed us to view all these life-saving interventions on TV and in Movies. And guns have proven themselves able to decide who needs killing ad who don’t, in spite of, as I mentioned, a few regrettable mistakes.

  91. Mooser said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:36

    “as the Second Amendment suggests”

    The Second Amendmant suggests, as you might know if you new the first goddam thing about this country, that it is possible to have Protestants and Catholics in the American Army.

  92. paperbagmarlys said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:38

    . . . guns are people . . .

    Hey, thermonuclear warheads, drones, and cluster bombs are people too. Don’t forget the little guys.

    ***

    Heads up class! Humble Professor Brooks is in da house!

    . . . the class will examine the “premise that human beings are blessed with many talents but are also burdened by sinfulness, ignorance, and weakness.” . . .

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/david-brooks-humility-yale_n_2330650.html

  93. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:41

    We need better trolls.

  94. MarkusR said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:41

    Fuck Yeah!

    I needed this..

  95. Pupienus said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:43

    tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 0:20 (kill)

    The chief problem is all the toxic masculinity

    The gun manufacturers rely on and reinforce this to sell weapons. I mean “man card?” JESUS.

    Men are as insecure as ever. On the upside, though, firearms makers such as Freedom Group have in recent years managed to offset the decline in demand from bona fide hunters by marketing military-style guns to men more interested in impressing their dears than tracking deer. The euphemism for this category is the “modern sporting rifle,” and Freedom Group is all over it. From its 2011 annual report: “The Bushmaster and DPMS brands, established in 1973 and 1986, respectively, represent the largest and second largest designers and suppliers of modern sporting rifles, components and parts for the commercial market. Bushmaster was one of the first companies to introduce modern sporting rifles to the consumer market, a market that is growing faster than the general firearms industry.” This shift away from the hunting market to the self-image market is what led Freedom Group to produce an ad campaign which casts buying the Bushmaster .223 as restoring one’s “man card.” Most unfortunately, the campaign includes one ad that defines “unmanliness” as being a man who “avoids eye contact with 5th graders.”

    And

    In addition, the continued adoption of the modern sporting rifle has led to increased growth in the long gun market, especially with a younger demographic of users and those who like to customize or upgrade their firearms.” If anyone doubts this claim, consider two names recently in the news who fit this marketing profile exactly: Nancy and Adam Lanza.

    http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/111237/buyers-guide-the-bushmaster-company Read it and weep.

  96. kg said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:47

    ” Of course, the unstated (when they remember to be on their best behavior, that is) desire of the gun fetishists is to gun down as many black and brown people as they possibly can.”

    I once had a douchebag articulate that this was indeed his very desire “as soon as I see that black face coming through the door”.

    Also, today inthe liquor.storesome ahole was yammering on his phone about which clips and which guns were sold out and how the prices were jacked up, Jesus fuxkitall godammit I hate these assholes

  97. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 3:56

    Read it and weep. vomit.

    DONE.

  98. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:00

    So the shooter bursts in, you grab your bucket and throw it at him. shooter runs away screaming.

    THAT’S IT! THAT’S THE SOLUTION!! EVERY SCHOOL NEEDS AN ON-PREMISE WALRUS WITH BUKKIT!

  99. Dazed and Confused said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:02

    And if all of that wasn’t enough Cerberus reports today show that gun sales for the Bushmaster and similar assault rifles have gone crazy since the massacre and even more insane the membership rate for the NRA has soared to 8000+ a day. Fucking insane.

  100. Dazed and Confused said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:03

    See http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/12/20/nra-memberships-and-gun-sales-soar-after-sandy-hook-shootings-videos/

  101. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:07

    1. I don’t agree that more guns necessarily equals more gun violence.

    Well then, we’re at an impasse. I mean, yeah I see the “necessarily” there, but I don’t see you as the type to argue based on pixie dust and unicorns. There’s data. Reams of it. If you control for other factors, guns correlate with gun crime. Your non-firearm murder rate is pretty close to the same as ours. When you compare developed nations, sue there are variations in crime rates, but the range from lowest to highest is at most a factor of three – except firearms related crime. Then there is on stark outlier, ten or twenty times higher than everyone else.

    The only studies showing positive effects from guns are from Lott or Kleck or some other NRA funded “think tank”. It’s like the climate change of sociology.

  102. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:07

    Man alive, people suck.

  103. Pupienus said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:13

    Courtesy of Teh HO :

    from free republic. It quickly denigrated into arguments about whether children automatically go to heaven and charges of blasphemy started getting hurled around

    REMEMBERING SANDY HOOK

    Twas’ 11 days before Christmas,
    around 9:38
    when 20 beautiful children
    stormed through heaven’s gate.

    Their smiles were contagious,
    their laughter filled the air.
    They could hardly believe
    all the beauty they saw there.

    They were filled with such joy,
    they didn’t know what to say.
    They remembered nothing
    of what had happened earlier that day.

    “Where are we?” asked a little girl,
    as quiet as a mouse.
    “This is heaven.” declared a small boy.
    “We’re spending Christmas at God’s house.”

    When what to their wondering
    eyes did appear,
    but Jesus, their Savior,
    the children gathered near.

    He looked at them and smiled,
    and they smiled just the same.
    Then He opened His arms
    and He called them by name.

    And in that moment was joy,
    that only heaven can bring
    Those children all flew
    into the arms of their King.

    And as they lingered
    in the warmth of His embrace,
    one small girl turned
    and looked at Jesus’ face.

    And as if He could read
    all the questions she had
    He gently whispered to her,
    “I’ll take care of mom and dad.”

    Then He looked down on earth,
    the world far below
    He saw all of the hurt,
    the sorrow, and woe.

    Then He closed His eyes
    and He outstretched His hand,
    “Let My power and presence
    re-enter this land!”

    “May this country be delivered
    from the hands of fools”
    “I’m taking back my nation.
    I’m taking back my schools!”

    Then He and the children
    stood up without a sound.
    “Come now my children,
    let me show you around.”

    Excitement filled the space,
    some skipped and some ran.
    All displaying enthusiasm
    that only a small child can.

    And I heard Him proclaim
    as He walked out of sight,
    “In the midst of this darkness,
    I AM STILL THE LIGHT.”

    Written by Cameo Smith, Mt. Wolf, PA

  104. Pupienus said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:18

    ell then, we’re at an impasse. I mean, yeah I see the “necessarily” there, but I don’t [...]

    It’s a matter of exactly who owns the guns. Indiscriminate (aka unregulated) gun proliferation is what you seem to have in mind. With appropriate regulation – by which I mean stuff way the hell and beyond five day waiting periods and background checks – AND ENFORCEMENT there is no reason to stipulate the relationship as you stated it.

  105. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:18

    Speaking of vomit…

  106. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:31

    Okay I am all ears. How would you limit guns only to responsible gun owners? Are you proposing regular mental health profiling to keep access to your firearms? What abou weapons that get lost or stolen?

    If we’re talking about restricting access based on the potential for harm associated with the prospective gun owner, then we have to define who that marginal gun owner is. How competent do they have to be until you trust them with a firearm? And what do you do to ensure that the marginal gun owner doesn’t keep their weapons if they drop below the acceptable level?

    And what purpose does this all serve? What benefit would accrue as compared to an outright ban?

    I made a proposal earlier that allowed for hunting and sport shooting. That those activities occur only in designated and licensed facilities. And that the only place where functional firearms would be allowed would be those locations. Leave your weapon at the range where you use it. What would you say to that?

  107. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:32

    I read every word. I can’t skip over stuff, it’s a flaw of mine.
    Damn righteous rant, Cerb.
    (raises his beer bottle)
    Here’s to Cerberus.

  108. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:38

    wait.

    The Mayor has a beer? How come I didn’t get a beer?

  109. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:41

    The Mayor has a beer? How come I didn’t get a beer?

    What’s that in your hand right now?

  110. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:44

    I made a proposal earlier that allowed for hunting and sport shooting. That those activities occur only in designated and licensed facilities. And that the only place where functional firearms would be allowed would be those locations. Leave your weapon at the range where you use it. What would you say to that?

    The matter of supplying keys to the gun locker at the State Game Lands, or whatever forest I happen to hunt on any particular day, and that I could only hunt where I had previously stored my gun, is problematic.

    You are aware, I would bet, that Switzerland has a fairly high percentage of gun owners. By your logic, if every gun owner in Switzerland bought another firearm, the gun violence rate would go up. There, I’ve run rings ’round you logically.

    But seriously folks, the point is that the prevalence of guns as a statistic standing alone is pretty much meaningless without consideration of a much larger context.

  111. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:52

    Aaaaaaand Teh Ho has called up Star Trek Insurrection as a ploy to get ME to take Bagoas out for his evening walkies and laser time. FUCK, it’s going to work.

    *Bagoas is obsessed with chasing the green dot. I am only … interested in high power lasers. Got a 200 mW beauty with which I can paint the bridge 1.3 miles away. Oh, it’s ILLEGAL and I don’t NEED it.

  112. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:56

    You gheys and your laser penises.
    .

  113. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 21, 2012 at 4:57

    Oh hey! A fair number of people misuse such lasers, idiotically shining them into aircraft and other stupid and dangerous shit. I should therefore not be able to have one, is what thou argue.

    PHHPHPHHTTPHTPT

  114. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 5:00

    The Mayor has a beer? How come I didn’t get a beer?

    What’s that in your hand right now?

    An ear?

  115. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 21, 2012 at 5:00

    An ear?

    Yes. That’s an ear.
    .

  116. Major Kong said,

    December 21, 2012 at 5:03

    A fair number of people misuse such lasers, idiotically shining them into aircraft and other stupid and dangerous shit.

    We’ve had several of our pilots get lased. Get caught doing it and it’s a federal offense now.

  117. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 5:05

    A star club meet I visited once also got another visitor wit’ a uniform an’ a badge.
    He confiscated them all (four, I think) even though we were out in BFE because TERRORISTS!!!
    …and some kind soul dropped these beers off on my front porch before it started snowing.
    I think it was a mistake but I care not.

  118. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 5:38

    zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    December 20, 2012 at 23:53

    Interestingly, re: the argument about self-defense. Charlotte Allen actually popped up in the comments at Pierce’s joint, when someone snarked that she had probably never had a gun pointed at her or ‘felt a rapist’s weight” to tell her story of an attempted rape.

    The thing is, he armed himself with a knife from her kitchen, and the rape was thwarted because she fought back using simple self defense techniques.

    A gun did not save her. In fact, if there had been a gun, the rapist could have used that instead of the knife and the results might have been more tragic.

    Of course, the idea that her OWN STORY kind of invalidates the self-defense justification was lost…

    What really had me thinking “WTF?” was a later comment (no, she wasn’t smart enough to cut and run once the ‘maters started hitting her in the head).

    “Men, thanks to testosterone and probably brain configuration, are bigger, stronger, and more aggressive than women. They also have built-in strategic ability, thanks to their superior facility at maneuvering three-dimensional objects inside their head. They can disarm enemies in combat. Adam Lanza (you’ve seen his photos) was a skinny20-year-old twerp who happened to have a gun. A reasonably mesomorphic man a few years older in reasonable shape could have tackled him. Two such men could have put a quick end to his rampage.”

    That she even mentioned “brain configuration” prompted me to fall out of my chair. I was tempted to ask her how her brain configuration allowed her to type, but sadly, she had vamoosed before I discovered the post.
    …and then…

    “I can’t believe that you people think that there was nothing that could be done to stop a 20-year-old wuss/endomorph from carrying out a murderous rampage against little children.”

    “wuss/endomorph”???
    I,…I,…(sigh) I can’t. I just can’t.

  119. Spearhafoc, whose nym is Old English for "sparrowhawk" said,

    December 21, 2012 at 5:47

    Endomorphs are fat. Ectomorphs are the skinny ones. Google is hard, I guess.

  120. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 5:50

    “I can’t believe that you people think that there was nothing that could be done to stop a 20-year-old wuss/endomorph from carrying out a murderous rampage against little children.”

    I can’t believe she thinks only one thing could have stopped him even after she must have discovered every fucking point she made was bullshit.

  121. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 21, 2012 at 6:02

    We’ve had several of our pilots get lased. Get caught doing it and it’s a federal offense now.

    As it fucking should be.

  122. Just Alison, who can't be buggered thinking of something clever to write said,

    December 21, 2012 at 6:08

    Pupienus said,
    December 21, 2012 at 4:13

    Courtesy of Teh HO :

    from free republic. It quickly denigrated into arguments about whether children automatically go to heaven and charges of blasphemy started getting hurled around

    REMEMBERING SANDY HOOK

    Pup, your Ho is a monster for forcing that vile filth on my innocent eyes. Now I’s a gonna have to scrape out my eyeballs with a spoon, and you know how that smarts…

    “I can’t believe that you people think that there was nothing that could be done to stop a 20-year-old wuss/endomorph from carrying out a murderous rampage against little children.”

    Hah, but he wasn’t just any old wuss/ectomorph, he was a wuss with a Big Shooter. Which means he suddenly became a Manly Man, doesn’t it? Isn’t that the logic?

    Honestly, I just can’t work these people out.

  123. bughunter said,

    December 21, 2012 at 6:19

    Anyone who intentionally aims lasers at aircraft should be assraped with a toilet plunger. I got lased at a Further concert once… I was about 30m in front of the stage and some asshole was sitting in the stands off to the side of the stage with a green laser, maybe a Wicked laser, playing across the audience and he got me in the right eye. I wasn’t even looking in its direction and it swept across my eye for only an instant… I was blinded in that eye for half an hour and had visual aftereffects for the rest of the night.

    And I’m sure the shrooms didn’t help… dilated pupils and all.

  124. Bitter Scribe said,

    December 21, 2012 at 6:33

    I read not too long ago about some crazed dad who “helped” his 12-year-old daughter, an ice hockey player, during a game by trying to shine one of those things into the eyes of the opposing goalie. He was arrested. I don’t remember exactly what he was charged with or how it turned out, but whatever it was, it probably couldn’t match his daughter’s utter mortification in terms of punishment.

  125. Bitter Scribe said,

    December 21, 2012 at 6:34

    BTW, now that the thread is petering out, I can ask: Who’s in the picture? It looks like Marty Mull and Madeleine Kahn, but I’m just guessing.

  126. Another Kiwi said,

    December 21, 2012 at 6:35

    The poem…the apocalypse… it all fits together.

  127. jim the heretical anti-cliff lemming said,

    December 21, 2012 at 6:43

    Hate is much much better than mass-murderers & their enablers deserve.
    But it’s a good start.

    Meanwhile, back in de swamp … Pantload clutches pearls, lemming gives in to his nature & jumps:

    jim2011 • a few seconds ago

    The outrage at victim-blaming here is awfully rich sauce. The victims get blamed after every one of these slaughters by the heroes of the 101st Keyboarders for not shooting the shooter, as Goldberg must surely know if he peruses the right-wing blogosphere. That it has happened yet again in this case is a shock to precisely nobody.

    Very educational to see how the Right frames this debate: People who lobby to have quantity & access of guns limited in an America that increasingly resembles an armed camp are obscene, fascistic, ghoulish, insane & every other vile name in the book. People who fight to maintain a status quo that just got 20 little kids & six adults butchered (& that generates a needless & preventable annual legacy of mass-slaughter of the kind normally associated with an ongoing civil war) are patriotic, heroic, principled, ad nauseum. The Second Amendment is absolutely necessary so that citizens can somehow miraculously win a “Patriots versus NWO/UN/ZOG Goons” fantasy face-off against APCs & drones with their mighty AR-15s & Glocks … or so they can prevail against criminals who are either better armed than they are or (more often) are utterly unarmed. That there is obviously no “well regulated militia” needed to defend America, rendering said Amendment a societally toxic anachronism, is plainly doubleplusungoodthink that must spiral down the Memory Hole ASAP, lest the dire peril of lucid thought arise to menace the sacred cult of blood & gunmetal.

    Fear not for the fate of your fire-sticks, brave warriors: you’ve already won the battle before it truly even begins. Advocates for gun control aren’t reacting quickly to Newtown because they’re a bunch of necrophiles who get off on human misery – they do so because such gruesome events are now well on their way to becoming totally routine, forcing them to respond in the tiny window of opportunity available before the collective consciousness turns to the latest gadget or hit single. Outrage fatigue is on your side, as is desensitization – & your psychological advantage will gradually become ever more overwhelming as these sickening mass-murders go on. Everyone not in need of heavy medication knows bloody well that President Obama isn’t coming for your guns – not now, not next year, not ever. Any legislation that comes in the wake of this particular atrocity will be mere window-dressing … after which America will vigorously pat itself on the back for putting another happy-face band-aid on its collective sucking chest-wound. Then the only thing left to do is sit back & wait for the next fresh pile of corpses to arrive – & hope that this time you’re not one of them.

    Too soon real?

  128. Bitter Scribe said,

    December 21, 2012 at 6:51

    Hey Major: Just read your latest Kos diary. Great stuff, as usual.

    FWIW, here’s why this American doesn’t read much about WWI: It’s way too depressing. All that horrible slaughter for no purpose, just to set up a rematch a generation later.

  129. MMM said,

    December 21, 2012 at 8:51

    Wouldn’t it be funny if the next mass shooting took place at an NRA convention? I don’t mean funny ha-ha. I can only imagine the cognitive dissonance it would produce.

  130. Smut Clyde said,

    December 21, 2012 at 9:39

    gun sales for the Bushmaster and similar assault rifles have gone crazy since the massacre

    Every mass murder is a boom for the arms dealers. Worth remembering when you let arms dealers write your laws — you will get massacres because it is good for business.

    I don’t mean funny ha-ha.

    I would laugh.

  131. Chris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 10:45

    Guns are people, too. In fact guns are very special people with extra rights

    Much like corporations, and states, and pretty much everything that’s not an actual person.

  132. Chris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 10:54

    Wake up in the morning. Turn on the Book of Faces.

    “The Mayan Calendar says that the world will end on December 21, 2012. The Bible says no one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Click like if you’re trusting in God, not calendars.”

    Your silly wrong superstition is silly and wrong! I know that because my superstition told me!

  133. Smut Clyde said,

    December 21, 2012 at 10:59

    nor the Son, but only the Father

    So the Son and the Father are both God but one of them knows things that the other doesn’t. Great. The omnipotent creator of all things has feckin’ multiple personality disorder

  134. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 21, 2012 at 12:23

    Switzerland Switzerland Switzerland. The US is sure a lot more like Switzerland than it is like Canada. Also the mandatory firearms training associated with conscription probably makes some difference. I guess dissolving the US standing army, instituting mandatory service as part of a militia, and then never going to war is just as easy to accomplish as gun control.

    And, I really hate to do this but, let’s take that “What about Switzerland” argument seriously – you are still wrong. What about Switzerland? The Swiss private firearms ownership rate is a lot closer to Canada’s than the US – and the firearm homicide rate?

    Private Gun Ownership: US 88.8 Switzerland 45.7 Canada 30.8
    Firearm Homicide Rate: US 2.97 Switzerland 0.56 Canada 0.54

    And if you want to go back to the argument about crime having lots of factors and different societies behave differently and etc.

    Non-Firearm Homicide Rate: US 1.58 Switzerland 0.4 Canada 1.04

    Anyways, about hunting – I was suggesting that all functional firearms be stored at ranges. You would be able to transport a gun (after signing it out) and zero rounds of ammunition from range to designated hunting ground, where you would then be permitted to buy a reasonable amount of ammo for a single hunting trip.

    Is it inconvenient? Yes it is. Is it reasonable? You tell me.

  135. JM said,

    December 21, 2012 at 12:47

    Slight interesting addition.

    Back in Ted Nugent’s “Go Gonzo” days when he was marketing himself as a “mega” rock star, he decried the use of guns to kill game such as deer.

    In those days he preferred a bow and arrow. This assertion was a central feature of his “I kill and eat my own” type marketing. At the time, the use of guns for hunting was “immoral” for ol’ Ted.

    How things change.

  136. lostinube said,

    December 21, 2012 at 13:42

    Bitter Scribe,

    The photo is a screen shot from the movie Clue.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8d8y4BLWtI

  137. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    December 21, 2012 at 13:50

    Jesus christ.

    Guys, guys. I just now noticed that Cerb’s posts have alt-text on the fucking pictures.

    Holy crap.

  138. Major Kong said,

    December 21, 2012 at 14:13

    Wouldn’t it be funny if the next mass shooting took place at an NRA convention?

    Someone on LGM suggested:

    1. Lock doors to convention hall.
    2. Toss in smoke bomb
    3. Toss in one firecracker

    Hilarity ensues.

  139. Cole said,

    December 21, 2012 at 14:16

    There was not a single adult male on the school premises when the shooting occurred

    Well, there was the shooter. Come to think of it, all these mass murderers have been ostensibly male.

    So, the logic is that we need manly men guarding all our wimmens and chillens because men are murdering bastards. I think if we follow this “logic” the simpler solution would be to ban men entirely from schools and other public forums and take away all their guns and sharp toys–NOT PUT MORE OF THE BASTARDS AROUND WOMEN AND CHILDREN who seem to get along fine on their own.

  140. Major Kong said,

    December 21, 2012 at 14:25

    “I can’t believe that you people think that there was nothing that could be done to stop a 20-year-old wuss/endomorph from carrying out a murderous rampage against little children.”

    I thought the whole point of guns was to allow wuss/endomorphs like George Zimmerman defend themselves from big strapping thugs like Trayvon Martin?

    What did I miss?

  141. Gary Ruppert said,

    December 21, 2012 at 15:03

    The fact is, Adam did not use a semi-automatic weapon. You should learn more about guns and the consitution before shooting off your liberal mouths. Also, fags are a big problem.

  142. Gary Ruppert said,

    December 21, 2012 at 15:05

    The fact is, the liberal media ncalls these Bushmasters “aussult rifles” when they are no such thing. I think that Adam Lanza was gay, and his mom tried to help him.

  143. Gary Ruppert said,

    December 21, 2012 at 15:06

    The fact is, this whole event was created by liberal fascsicsts to take everyones guns away. I hae a feeling thet gays are behind it.

  144. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 15:39

    Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 21, 2012 at 12:23
    Anyways, about hunting – I was suggesting that all functional firearms be stored at ranges. You would be able to transport a gun (after signing it out) and zero rounds of ammunition from range to designated hunting ground, where you would then be permitted to buy a reasonable amount of ammo for a single hunting trip.

    Is it inconvenient? Yes it is. Is it reasonable? You tell me.

    The shooting range thing I get. The few golfers I know up here (I’ve never golfed. I don’t get it.) keep their clubs in a locker at the course.
    Granted, up here there’s only one course anywhere close.
    I could even see keeping my rifle at the range since I’m likely going to be there to sight the thing in and do maintainance.
    It’s the “designated hunting ground” part that doesn’t seem feasable where I am. All public land (and private land with explicit permission) is open to hunting. Game moves. Populations fluctuate for a variety of reasons. most of my time hunting is spent scouting, or waiting.
    Most days grouse hunting consist of a 4 – 5 mile walk, sometimes seeing game, most times not. The idea that my shells would be waiting for me when I needed them seems a bit wishful.

  145. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 21, 2012 at 15:52

    I’m not a hunter and perhaps the regulations are different here in Canuckland than south of the border – not that I am aware of the regulatory regime here. But I do know that hunting is fairly heavily regulated already with seasonal restrictions and tagging and bag limits. While I might not be the right person to develop a solid system by which this would work, I’m pretty certain that there are people who could figure it out. And yes, I also concede that it would probably lead to significantly reduced hunting areas – notably private held land where the landowner does not want the hassle of government saying who is allowed to have loaded firearms on their property.

  146. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 15:59

    Pardon my spelling. I just woke up. Still sipping my first coffee.

  147. Barney said,

    December 21, 2012 at 16:01

    Charlotte Allen falls back on the classic wingnut “I don’t need no stinkin’ facts” excuse:

    I am also responding to David Weigel, who told me I gotten my facts wrong: that there are actually two men, a custodian and a fourth-grade teacher, on Sandy Hook’s 52-person staff. He’s right, and I stand corrected. This does help prove my point, though …

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/336275/newtown-my-critics-charlotte-allen#

    And doubles down on the “only manly men can think straight” BS:

    Finally, even Jonah Goldberg right here at NRO accused me of “blaming the victim.” Et tu, Jonah! I can’t take most of the criticisms seriously, but I will respond to Jonah: No, I was not blaming any of the 26 victims or the parents who enrolled their kids at Sandy Hook. I am, however, blaming our culture that denies, dismisses, and denigrates the masculine traits—including size, strength, male aggression and a male facility for strategic thinking–that until recently have been viewed as essential for building a society and protecting its weaker members. We now have Hanna Rosin at Slate urging parents to buy their little boys Easy Bake ovens so they’ll be more like little girls. Women are less aggressive by instinct, and they are typically trained to be nice. I praised and continue to praise the courage of the Sandy Hook principal, Dawn Hochsburg, and the teachers who gave up their lives along with her, but with some men on the scene who knew what to do, some of those lives might have been saved.

  148. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 16:08

    fairly heavily regulated already with seasonal restrictions and tagging and bag limits

    Same here. Thankfully in MI still determined by scientific research.

    reduced hunting areas – notably private held land where the landowner does not want the hassle of government saying who is allowed to have loaded firearms on their property.

    This would be problematic. The notion of “The King’s Deer” still resonates down here.
    …and I personally have an aversion to “canned” hunts.
    Something just seems “wrong” about it, but admittedly, that’s a visceral reaction.

  149. N__B said,

    December 21, 2012 at 16:14

    The notion of “The King’s Deer” still resonates down here.

    Are you familiar with the punchline “That thar’s the sheriff’s gal”? Because that’s sure as hell what “the King’s Deer” brought to mind.

  150. Major Kong said,

    December 21, 2012 at 16:23

    I don’t hunt.

    Because it’s early and it’s cold.

    Freezing my ass off in a deer stand while waiting for something to walk in front of me just doesn’t sound like a whole lot of fun.

  151. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 16:27

    Are you familiar with the punchline “That thar’s the sheriff’s gal”?
    (chuckle) I wasn’t,…but I’m filing that away.
    Thanks.

  152. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 16:39

    Freezing my ass off in a deer stand while waiting for something to walk in front of me just doesn’t sound like a whole lot of fun.
    It’s not, really. Not in the “Go out dancing” sense. I don’t hunt for pleasure. I don’t even look at it as a “sport”. Meat. End of story. The most important piece of hunting gear I own, other than the fluorescent orange safety vest, is my boots. Cold feet are a nightmare.

  153. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 16:42

    Because it’s early and it’s cold.
    This brought to mind the punchline “Yeah, the dog didn’t want to go either”.

  154. Pryme said,

    December 21, 2012 at 16:44

    Referencing this movie without providing a clip is blasphemy. BLASPHEMY.

    Otherwise, awesome post.

  155. Pryme said,

    December 21, 2012 at 16:46

    Also: ban video games? Why do they wanna take away my virtual GUNZ?!?!? I needs my virtual GUNZ to protect me from fictional enemies!!!

  156. N__B said,

    December 21, 2012 at 16:47

    If they ban video games, “joystick” will have no unridiculous meanings, and then where will I be?

    Besides, you know, holding my joystick…

  157. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 16:53

    After googling that punchline I realized a whole lot of people have really screwed up that joke.

  158. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 16:55

    “The Mayan Calendar says that the world will end on December 21, 2012. The Bible says no one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Click like if you’re trusting in God, not calendars.”

    yes, this morning on my book of faces, god botherer of last weekend’s ugliness had something about the mayans as his status, so of course i cracked wise about forgetting to whoop it up last night, just in case…and that perhaps i should do so today in celebration…his reply was ‘the 21st isn’t over yet. ‘the sun is to darken…the moon not to shine…’

    he is truly a humorless deck…

  159. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 16:58

    In those days he preferred a bow and arrow. This assertion was a central feature of his “I kill and eat my own” type marketing. At the time, the use of guns for hunting was “immoral” for ol’ Ted.

    well, the thing to remember about ted nugent is that he is and always will be a fucking amazement to himself…

  160. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:03

    And, I really hate to do this but, let’s take that “What about Switzerland” argument seriously – you are still wrong. What about Switzerland? The Swiss private firearms ownership rate is a lot closer to Canada’s than the US – and the firearm homicide rate?

    You’re not normally this obtuse. Those statistics have diddly to do with the point, namely that an increase in the number of guns does not necessarily result in an increase in gun violence.

    Also the mandatory firearms training associated with conscription probably makes some difference.

    Aha! Perhaps you do have functioning neurons after all. Please continue that thought, and think about some of the other differences between the US and Switzerland that might account for the difference in base gun violence rates. After much cogitation you might be able to understand why i would not agree to stipulate your original assertion regarding differential rates.

    As for your hunting suggestion, it is completely unworkable. It’s so ridiculous I actually laughed on reading it. Check out a gun at “the range?” Get ammo at “where you hunt.” You don’t know a damned thing about rural geography and living, do you?

  161. Major Kong said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:04

    I hate to admit that I actually liked Ted Nugent – for a brief period sometime around 1977.

  162. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:04

    The fact is, the liberal media ncalls these Bushmasters “aussult rifles” when they are no such thing. I think that Adam Lanza was gay, and his mom tried to help him.

    wow…way to frame a convincing argument about gay aversion therapy, gary!

  163. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:08

    Barney said,

    December 21, 2012 at 16:01

    charlotte allen remains a big bag of oozing puss and not remotely human…and wow, wanna talk about arrogant, stupid and mean? i think she even beats me!

    her participation in the comment thread over at esquire was the point where i decided that if i never had contact with her again it would be a-okay, was when, after stating that rape was worth than death, and a commenter made a remark about how if a man fucking you was worse than death, you might have some odd priorities she answered, ‘yes, it is…depends on the man…i have standards.’ i decided then and there that she truly is a heinous ghoul and there is no hope of redemption…

  164. mat said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:08

    Back in Ted Nugent’s “Go Gonzo” days when he was marketing himself as a “mega” rock star, he decried the use of guns to kill game such as deer.

    Well, he’s always been a raging asshole, then and now. I especially love how this draft-dodging creep of a man is now so rabidly pro-war and “supports the troops.”

    That pretty much says it all about his (lack thereof) character.

  165. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:15

    I hate to admit that I actually liked Ted Nugent – for a brief period sometime around 1977.

    sometimes you and hubbkf are so alike it scares me…i for one have mercilessly mocked ted nugent from the first moment he appeared on my radar screen…

  166. Major Kong said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:15

    I especially love how this draft-dodging creep of a man is now so rabidly pro-war

    Even worse, he’s one of those “I didn’t go but if I had I would have been a Green Beret and totally kicked butt” type of draft-dodgers that I particularly despise.

    My response is usually “Then why didn’t you?”

  167. Major Kong said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:16

    sometimes you and hubbkf are so alike it scares me

    That’s OK. I actually liked Styx back then.

    (hangs head in shame)

  168. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:18

    Besides, actual hunting rifles – bolt or lever action with _maybe_ six or seven rounds capacity – are used in only a tiny percentage of gun violence. The occasional guy who kills his wife, the rare teenager revenge, and so on. And shotguns? Shotguns are almost never seen at murders.

    The vast majority of gun violence occurs in cities, and is effected by handguns. The vast majority of mass murders involve “assault rifles.” Any attempt at finding solutions to the problem which does not begin with a modal analysis is nothing but bullshit, bar talk.

  169. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:19

    gah! now i have ‘cat scratch fever’ as an earworm…thanks, dickheads!

  170. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:21

    I never liked Ted Nugent but I did enjoy some of his music way back when.

  171. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:21

    The omnipotent creator of all things has feckin’ multiple personality disorder

    And no law will keep Him from buying a gun!

    Jim, that was righteous.

  172. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:21

    That’s OK. I actually liked Styx back then.

    (hangs head in shame)

    ha! you know what’s even worse? i liked styx because hubbkf liked styx and i had a mad crush on him…’grand illusion’ is a soundtrack of memories for me, sadly…

  173. El Manquécito said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:28

    Thanks Pup, I was avoiding dealing with DKW’s city folk ignorance. My thought was that he is not even wrong. Farmers like me kill lots of animals and guns are the most humane way to do it. Splaining rural life to city folks is not an efficient use of a farmer’s time. Fish puns and food pron, now that’s another story.

  174. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:32

    You don’t know a damned thing about rural geography and living, do you?

    True.

    Okay, let’s talk about obtuse. If you look at developed nations around the world, one has a particularly high rate of gun ownership and a particularly high rate of gun violence. Absolutely agree that there are factors other than gun ownership which affect that, but I think you are being obtuse if you believe that it is only the other factors which make the US a particularly gun-violent country.

    Our non-firearm homicide rates aren’t much different. Our property crime rates aren’t much different. The argument that more guns = more gun violence isn’t counter-intuitive. It kinda follows.

    But anyways, let’s take your argument seriously for a moment. That we only care about gun control and the differential rates of violence. You are still wrong, as the differential firearms murder rates in Australia since 1997 have shown.

    And it is not like you have ANY reason to doubt the contention. Can you show me any evidence disproving the guns = gun violence argument? Especially evidence that meets your already demonstrated calls for data quality and applicability. Because short of citing Lott, Kleck or the NRA, there is bupkes.

  175. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:48

    Did somebody say “The Mayan Calendar“?
    ~

  176. nipsen said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:54

    “And let’s be honest, if the government really turned fascist on us, there’s no hope in the universe that you’d be on the side of the people.”

    *kching*

    There’s also no chance that the ones who actually collect multiple weapons, in different calibers, who store ammo with the weapons, don’t lock them down, etc., would make up any sort of “militia”, even in a pinch.

    You know what sort of person owns a “Bushmaster”, chambered for 7.62x39mm, with an optical scope? In addition to five other weapons, and enough ammo to supply a small war?

    It’s someone with the self-esteem of a very tiny spider, whose instinct is to run away at any kind of sound, flash of light, or stamping feet. Arming these people, with the justification that they should make up an armed militia in case of nigger-invasion, or somesuch, is like you say, a ridiculous idea.

    Honestly, though — after the last ten years, I’m starting to feel I wouldn’t really care as long as the US and the weapons are kept inside your borders. We could put up a fence around you, so you’d be safe from all of us, right? That works for me too.

  177. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 17:54

    i for one have mercilessly mocked ted nugent from the first moment he appeared on my radar screen…
    Having been local to his musical beginnings, The Amboy Dukes was my first exposure. I liked it. Once he opened his mouth, however…

  178. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 21, 2012 at 18:01

    Also, to address the “ignorant city folk” argument – thanks rural people! It’s not your kids getting gunned down in schools. You generally aren’t the ones getting shot every fucking day.

    Something like 10,000 people are murdered with guns in the US every year. If doing something about that makes life harder on rural folks who need to shoot varmints or put down cattle, well I personally don’t care. How about instead of saying “hyuk hyuk, them desk jockeys in their air-conditioned office towers shure are dum” you provide some meaningful contribution to the discussion?

  179. Pryme said,

    December 21, 2012 at 18:09

    Shorter NRA: I’m just gonna read the script from the movie “Frailty” here and blame Obama for not keeping track of crazy people and gangstas.

  180. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 18:11

    “And let’s be honest, if the government really turned fascist on us, there’s no hope in the universe that you’d be on the side of the people.”
    “…and when the war comes the cops will be on their side”

  181. El Manquécito said,

    December 21, 2012 at 18:21

    For instance, all my hunting is done at home, mostly consisting of taking an occasional deer, turkey or wild hog from the back field when the opportunity presents itself. I protect my chickens from coons, possums, coyotes and feral dogs ( I couldn’t shoot the bobcat, our ecosystem badly needs higher trophic level predators, haven’t had to make a decision about a grey fox yet but I probably couldn’t shoot one, because; beautiful and interesting ). I protect my bees from problem coons and possums ( haven’t shot a bear, though when you watch one of those lanky adolescent black bears doing many hundreds of dollars of damage to your herd and equipment it’s a sore temptation, plus great lard for baking). I protect my gardens and outbuildings from woodchucks and porcupines (once again, hundreds, even thousands of dollars in damage, over the years I’ve had to kill dozens because: not enough bobcats) I get licenses if necessary but it rarely is. If I have to talk some bureaucrat into giving me a permit to have farm guns in order to prevent suburbanites going postal on each other fine, I would, but I just don’t see how it would help. But your proposal isn’t that, it’s that I go to the range (huh?) and pick up a weapon and sign out some ammo. Not gonna fly buddy. Just not going to happen in America. The way I use guns is, unlike a lot of my behavior, demographically significant where I live; many of my neighbors shoot varmints and eat wild game and view your kind of admitted ignorance a poor platform from which to launch policy.

    For some years I had bees in land that was leased to hunters and I was contractually forbidden from having a gun in those woods. Disposing of coons, that can do almost as much damage to bee yards as bears, was a real problem; maybe I could ship them to Leafs Suck and you could take care of them for me.

    There’s all kinds of gun control I can support, especially handguns and high-cap magazines, exotic ammo, etc., I’m certainly not a 2nd Amend. absolutist in any way, guns are a real problem in my country but your kind of absolutism isn’t a helpful solution.

    I would be totally OK with using only flintlocks so if you want to work on a muzzle loaders only idea I’ll back you on that.

  182. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 18:31

    I rate for bobcat mailing.

  183. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 18:37

    Moar prescient Seger music

  184. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 21, 2012 at 18:41

    Then we need a better way to control pest animals. You got to make the decision to not shoot that bobcat – do you trust your neighbours to decide wisely as well?

    Anyways – in regards to “not going to fly” – why not? How often do you have such a higher order pest animal that only guns can bring them down? Surely there’s some way of dealing with raccoons that doesn’t involve high powered rifles. Why is it you that has to do the shooting? Why can’t that service be provided by some sort of officially sanctioned agency? Maybe one that has access to solutions other than plugging the critter with a 12 gauge. Sure there would be a cost to it – and the specifics need to be worked out, but this does not sound like an intractable problem.

    Expand regional wildlife agencies capabilities so that they can track and deal with these populations. In areas with significant agricultural activity, do campaigns of increased trapping. Maybe identify sensitive habitat features and prevent access during mating season. I dunno – I’m ignorant city folk, but if the problem is that Man needs to severely reduce the populations of some other species – that’s something we’ve proven pretty adept at.

  185. Bitter Scribe said,

    December 21, 2012 at 18:50

    So the Son and the Father are both God but one of them knows things that the other doesn’t. Great. The omnipotent creator of all things has feckin’ multiple personality disorder.

    Lovely lady dressed in blue,
    Teach me to be just like you.
    If God is really Three-in-One,
    You bore your Father’s only Son.

    –Anne Beatts

  186. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 21, 2012 at 18:55

    I think you are being obtuse if you believe that it is only the other factors which make the US a particularly gun-violent country.

    Where you got that idea I do not know because I’m sure I didn’t say it even imply it.

    Our non-firearm homicide rates aren’t much different. Our property crime rates aren’t much different. The argument that more guns = more gun violence isn’t counter-intuitive. It kinda follows.

    Exactly! It sure seems like it ought to be true, oughtn’t it! You are still missing the point.

    But anyways, let’s take your argument seriously for a moment. That we only care about gun control and the differential rates of violence.

    That’s not my argument. What you don’t seem to get is that I’m not making an argument in the way you are.


    You are still wrong, as the differential firearms murder rates in Australia since 1997 have shown.

    And that has dick-all to do with my point. Look, my friend, this started with me disputing your premise. And that only in a pedantic sense because you don’t seem to get modus ponens.

    If I may quote myself,

    If we can agree that more guns equals more gun violence, then enacting legislation which reduces the prevalence of guns is reasonable and a societal good.

    1. I don’t agree that more guns necessarily equals more gun violence.
    2. Nor do I agree with the contrapositive, that fewer guns necessarily implies less gun violence.

    You still haven’t convinced me that more guns necessarily means more gun violence. Everything else we are talking about has nothing to do with my refusal to stipulate your premise. If you would agree to modify your premise to make it acceptable to a strict rhetorician – that would be me, in this case – then we can avoid all the muddy rhetorical waters and move on to more important stuff.

    Tl;dr: bite me.

  187. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 18:55

    FYWP

  188. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:00

    oops, need to continue:


    And it is not like you have ANY reason to doubt the contention.

    Yes I do.

    Can you show me any evidence disproving the guns = gun violence argument?
    I don’t need to. I’m not disputing the truth of your argument except in the formal logic sense.

  189. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:03

    How often do you have such a higher order pest animal that only guns can bring them down?
    It’s the only way to target THE offending animal. Not all critters of a given species become a nuisance. Other methods tend to be indiscriminate and cause collateral damage. Say,…the neighbor’s cat.

    Why can’t that service be provided by some sort of officially sanctioned agency?
    ??? This is starting to sound pie-in-the-sky now. We can barely get the fools to pay for cops and firefighters. We won’t even go into how they feel about teachers.

  190. El Manquécito said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:05

    Farking feck, FYWP. Eating my post and making me re-type.

    If you think it’s hard getting, say, better funding for mental health care, try getting universal and effective biome care. Scientists, whether biologists, naturalists, ecologists, whatever, are evil gubmint tools to be fought, obstructed and defunded whenever possible.

    For an excellent look at why mammalian populations are out of whack (everywhere, not just US) I highly recommend “Monster of God, Man-Eating Predators in the Jungles of History and the Mind” by David Quammen. His basic contention is that alpha predators, feared out of all proportion by people that do not live among them, are hunted to extinction with atavistic fury and that the removal of these top predators causes cascading effects in lower trophic levels with unpredictable, complicated results.

  191. Bozo the Cocksucker said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:11

    Clownhall is haemmoraghing readers because two of their cartoonists aren’t shitheads.

    http://townhall.com/political-cartoons/2012/12/21/105916

  192. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:21

    Monster of God, Man-Eating Predators in the Jungles of History and the Mind
    Ordered. Yay for da fat solstice elf!

  193. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:23

    Expand regional wildlife agencies capabilities

    oh. would. not. fly. at. all. our wildlife agencies and officers are highly, highly disliked here…sure, our local dnr and fishery guys are liked because they grew up here and ‘get’ the mentality, but lots of folks here despise those that run the wildlife refuge…and of course, government workers are always suspect in general…this would only serve to heighten the gubmint tyranny that is so often shoved down our collective throats…thus validating the *perception* that they need moar guns to protect themselves from evil gubmint…

  194. bughunter said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:23

    Just about every wingnut gun fetishist since Jan 21, 2009 has said:

    From time to time, the Tree of Liberty must be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

    The rest of the time, it’s watered with the blood of innocents.

  195. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:27

    D-KW,

    Arguing from ignorance does look good on anyone. Vis a vis hunting and stuff, you don’t even have a clue that there is a clue to be had. You don’t want to be the Dunning -Kruger poster boy here. Not to be cruel, your ideas w.r.t. are an annoyance, not worth consideration. We are all happy to debate the gun issue but I, for one, won’t be arsed to argue with someone who is, for the purpose of the argument, a moron. You wouldn’t do it if the situation was reversed.

  196. bughunter, waiting for the NRA presser to begin, said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:32

    Please say something idiotic… please say something idiotic…

    [Transcript]

    YES!!! They went full wingnut!

    Shorter NRA Lobbyist Wayne LaPierre:
    The only solution to senseless gun violence in schools is more guns in schools.

    It’d be funny if it wasn’t so seriously fucking crazy.

  197. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:32

    oh my…typical mangoes at clown hall about the editorial cartoons:

    Okay, what exactly is TH up to with this Holbert guy? This is the same guy with the cartoon yesterday suggesting we are all rethinking our relationship with guns, now he’s implying that people are out buying ridiculous weapons for fear of a ban? I can see this crap in any regular newspaper, I thought we had higher standards here on TH? The day we allow the media to ridicule us into giving up guns – that is the day freedom ends.
    .

    It seems the only industry that’s been booming (no pun intended) since Obama took office is the firearms industry. Not just of ‘doomsday’ weapons like the pasteurized civilian version of a military assault rifle but weapons of all types. Perhaps it’s time to start asking why. Have Obama’s campaign promises of healing and of a bringing together been somehow overlooked? Or has our community organizing agitator-in-chief, blame-throwing, fomenter of social unrest Great Divider been doing his best to ensure citizens are kept in a climate of hopelessness and despair? Has the darkness spreading out of a corrupted political system now reached the point where it can no longer be saved? We’re facing a choice between renewing our commitment to a constitutional form of government or allowing or politicians to finally overthrow that system and install a nepotistic bureaucratic form that will only benefit those of the elite. Unfortunately most voters are completely clueless as to what any of it means.

    but here’s one that’s really good:

    Republican cartoonist has one non-shitheaded opinion, rightwing audience scream in terror.

  198. Another Kiwi said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:36

    From Bozo’s link I thought we had higher standards here on TH?
    It’s all much of a muchness in the sewer, really.

  199. Another Kiwi said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:37

    Curse bbkf and her mad typing skillz

  200. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:39

    I have been amusing myself elsewhere on the Interboobies with some libertarian / whingnut types. I led them along for a bit discussing the import of the first clause of the the Second Amendment. They went on at length about how the militia part really doesn’t matter except that the framers put it in there primarily or even solely as a guard against tyranny.

    Then I pointed them to some info regarding the impact upon those framers at the time they were busy framing of the role of the private militia in putting down the Shays rebellion. That had a very major influence in crafting the 2nd. I then pointed them to the Militia Acts of 1792, a mere six years later, which conscripted “able bodied white males between the ages of 18 and 45″ and which _mandated_ they supply their own firearms and other gear. I then mentioned that the first outing of the state militias was led by President George Fucking Washington against the whiskey rebellion, another domestic insurrection against “government tyranny.”

    The coup de grace came when I pointed out that both of those revolts against “government tyranny” which were put down by militia action were TAX REVOLTS.” Heads went all asplodey.

  201. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:39

    Bobcat mailing

  202. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:42

    LaPierre announced that former Rep. Asa Hutchison, R-Ark., will lead an NRA program that will develop a model security plan for schools that relies on armed volunteers.
    I can’t see how anything can go wrong. /

    Sorry for the post blitz. I’m snowed in and bored as fuck.

  203. bughunter, said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:43

    I think the NRA is going to lose this fight, when even one of the most conservative jurists in one of the most conservative cities in my state is ready to ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines:

    Bring back the assault weapons ban, and bring it back with some teeth this time. Ban the manufacture, importation, sale, transfer and possession of both assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. Don’t let people who already have them keep them. Don’t let ones that have already been manufactured stay on the market. I don’t care whether it’s called gun control or a gun ban. I’m for it.

    Read the whole thing. It’s some of the best news I’ve read all week.

  204. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:44

    Have Obama’s campaign promises of healing and of a bringing together been somehow overlooked? Or has our community organizing agitator-in-chief, blame-throwing, fomenter of social unrest Great Divider been doing his best to ensure citizens are kept in a climate of hopelessness and despair? Has the darkness spreading out of a corrupted political system now reached the point where it can no longer be saved? We’re facing a choice between renewing our commitment to a constitutional form of government or allowing or politicians to finally overthrow that system and install a nepotistic bureaucratic form that will only benefit those of the elite. Unfortunately most voters are completely clueless as to what any of it means.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HE MADE US KILL THOSE PEOPLE!

  205. bughunter, said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:46

    Pup, got a linky to the ‘splodey? We’d love to read it…

  206. Another Kiwi said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:46

    I am not a Heinlein fan or even marginal liker of the dude. But his idea that “Those who seek elected office should be banned from achieving it” might be a good rule to apply to armed school volunteers.

  207. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 19:55

    QUESTION: Do either of you feel like any talks with…

    KEENE: As I indicated…

    QUESTION: … will stop gun…

    KEENE: As I indicated at the outset, this is the beginning of a serious conversation. We won’t be taking questions today, but Andrew Arulanandam, our public affairs officer, is here.

    (CROSSTALK)

    KEENE: We will be willing to talk to anybody beginning on Monday. A text of the speech by Wayne and Asa Hutchinson’s remarks are available at nra.org.

    I want to thank all of you for being with us. And I look forward to talking to you and answering any of your questions next week.

    Thank you very much.

    QUESTION: One question. One question, Mr. Keene?

    (CROSSTALK)

    QUESTION: (inaudible) White House for any discussions (ph)? Mr. Keene, is the door completely closed (inaudible) White House for any discussion, sir?

    END

    yes, this seems to be the best way to start out a serious CONVERSATION…

    how do they fit their eddy eagle program teaching kids gun safety with their ZOMG KIDS BAD PEOPLE WITH GUNS ARE WAITING OUTSIDE YOUR SCHOOL AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT TO KILL YOU?!?!?

    i think protecting our kids includes not scaring the living fuck out of them by having armed guards in every public venue…also, too…volunteerism may work very well in highly populated urban areas, but out here in the sticks, the commitment level isn’t very high…we get all gung ho for the next new volunteer program, but after awhile, pffffffffft…too busy, real life sets in, yada yada…soon program fizzles…just one of the problems i see in the great ‘lets arm volunteers and let them patrol our schools’ campaign…

  208. Another Kiwi said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:01

    Then there’s the TOO KEEN Barney fucking Fife types to worry about.

  209. jim the heretical anti-cliff lemming said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:04

    ZOMG ITS TEH MUMBOJUMBOGEDD0N TOODEH AIEEEEEEEEEE

  210. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:04

    oh wow…i love larry burns:

    There is just no reason civilians need to own assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. Gun enthusiasts can still have their venison chili, shoot for sport and competition, and make a home invader flee for his life without pretending they are a part of the SEAL team that took out Osama bin Laden.

    It speaks horribly of the public discourse in this country that talking about gun reform in the wake of a mass shooting is regarded as inappropriate or as politicizing the tragedy. But such a conversation is political only to those who are ideologically predisposed to see regulation of any kind as the creep of tyranny. And it is inappropriate only to those delusional enough to believe it would disrespect the victims of gun violence to do anything other than sit around and mourn their passing. Mourning is important, but so is decisive action.

    Congress must reinstate and toughen the ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines

  211. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:07

    ak, all i can picture is the military dudes is this…

  212. The Principal Contributt said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:11

    I’m usually a fan of most people here, but I’m sorry. The folks like Pup who are sitting here claiming they need “proof” that gun availability leads to more gun violence are the ones being obtuse.

    By sheer logic, gun violence can only occur where guns are readily available. Claiming that gun violence somehow levels off or even decreases as the number of available guns increases is laughable on its face.

    Also, I find it interesting how suddenly you need to be an expert on something to debate about it. I guess that there huntin’ stuff is just too gosh durn complex ‘n important fer us silly cityfolk to even begin to understand.

    If you’re too lazy to actually explain why ideas are poor or will not work, just say so, Pup. Don’t become a sanctimonious douchebag and pretend that your vast hunting and gun knowledge is just unattainable and those who disagree with you will just never understand.

  213. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:12

    also, too…isn’t blaming the media and entertainment industries a bit much when two of their spokespersons are chuck norris and ted nugent?

  214. Major Kong said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:15

    isn’t blaming the media and entertainment industries a bit much when two of their spokespersons are chuck norris and ted nugent?

    You forgot Tom Selleck and Charlton Heston.

  215. Major Kong said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:17

    “Those who seek elected office should be banned from achieving it” might be a good rule to apply to armed school volunteers.

    When they first came out with the FFDO program (arming airline pilots) I said that the first 500 applications should be automatically turned down on account of those people would probably be fanatics.

  216. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:24

    Also, I find it interesting how suddenly you need to be an expert on something to debate about it. I guess that there huntin’ stuff is just too gosh durn complex ‘n important fer us silly cityfolk to even begin to understand.

    i am far from being an expert on anything, but dkw’s absolute zero guns and idea that hunters can check out their guns and pick up ammo where they are hunting is logistically not feasible…

    and i don’t think it’s an attitude of ‘you silly cityfolk’ can’t understand the complexities…because their really are no complexities to understand…in a vast area of this country, hunting is what is called ‘a way of life’ something that’s been practiced forever and is participated in by families for years…i’m not a big fan of hunting but only because it’s usually at a god-awful hour of the day, it’s cold and or damp, you usually have to be quiet, i cannot climb a tree to get in a stand, i don’t have the patience and/or attention span for it and it just seems that a lot of it is hard boring work…but hubbkf and the son love hunting…it’s something they do together…sometimes it’s just an excuse to get out in the outdoors and hang…it’s just something that a lot of people do around here and other parts of the country (and i would daresay in parts of canuckistan)…i have no beef with hunters and their guns…they are regulated and for the most part are very responsible…cripes, gun safety classes are still highly attended around here when lots of other activities are fading out…

    but around these small towns out in the sticks, our kids move away and generally move to more urban areas and that hunting/fishing/outdoor life is usually forgotten…we don’t see many young ‘city’ hunters out here anymore…and very few fathers and sons & daughters hunt…which actually makes me kind of sad…

    hunting is a weird kind of thing to explain sometimes and i’m sure i’m doing it very badly…mostly because i can’t even explain to myself why it is what it is…i just know it’s a big part of life out here and in other areas of our country…is part of it because of how americans pretty much ‘hunted’ this country as it’s own? is it because other countries are so much older than we are and the hunting genetic has died out? i don’t know…all i know is that generally speaking, hunters and their guns are not the problem gun owners/users…

  217. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:25

    isn’t blaming the media and entertainment industries a bit much when two of their spokespersons are chuck norris and ted nugent?
    What occured to me a moment ago is that a few of these games they’re railing about have actual, really, true-to-life-type weapons depicted, yes?
    They would need a licensing arrangement with the manufacturers to do so, amirite?
    Sooo…

    (I am not a gamer, so I don’t know)

  218. bughunter, nibbling on popcorn, said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:26

    Oh, Boehner is so fucked.

    Boehner nearly cried.

    Buh-bye!

    (Of course, it’s going to work out just fine for him, with a cushy lobbyist/think tank position and a seven-figure income in, ohh… about two months.)

  219. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:27

    r
    Put it where it belongs.

  220. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:27

    You forgot Tom Selleck and Charlton Heston.

    on purpose…they don’t strike me as being as bloodthirsty and violent nor have the cult following of norris and nugent…which, by the way would be a horrible ‘brand’…

  221. The Principal Contributt said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:28

    Like Cerb put pretty well (if wordily), there is absolutely ZERO “need” for guns of any type in the US.

    Even you rural types who sit there whining about wild animals and how your only choice is to pull out a rifle and shoot them are talking out your ass. You can pretend you’re billions of miles from civilization and have no other choice all you want, the simple fact is that isn’t true. Every square inch of US territory is accessible by and under the jurisdiction of police and therefore animal control services.

    Neither you nor anyone else other than law enforcement and military types need a tool whose only purpose is killing. That’s the price we pay for living in a civilized world now.

    Yeah, we won’t magically make them all disappear ever, but we can at least stop pretending anybody actually needs a murder machine, and stop giving them out to whoever wants one.

  222. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:28

    They would need a licensing arrangement with the manufacturers to do so, amirite?
    Sooo…

    ohhh…good call…

  223. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:28

    the NRA…our hypocrisy knows no bounds…

  224. Thread Bear said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:34

    So now I guess our already insufficient education budget will be stripped even further to cover training, weapons and ammo for these volounteers. Then of course there will be the sharp increase in liability insurance which will of course skyrocket after the first time some kid breaks into the “secure” place the firearms are kept and kills a classmate or two.

  225. Major Kong said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:35

    I always liked the scene in Men in Black

    Redneck: “You’ll get mah gun when you pry it from my cold dead hands!”
    Alien: “Your proposal is acceptable”

  226. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:40

    Ahhhh crap.

  227. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:45

    Shit. The genie may already be out of the bottle

  228. bughunter said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:46

    oh wow…i love larry burns

    Looks like Bloomberg gets it right, too:

    “I think the public has finally come to the conclusion that, what the Supreme Court said you can do is have reasonable restrictions on the right to bear arms, is something that our society finally has woken up and said, ‘We are going to do this whether you like it or not,’” Bloomberg said.

    But if he had his preference, Bloomberg said he would go farther than the 1994 ban and outlaw all automatic and semi-automatic weapons and high-capacity magazines. The mayor said magazines shouldn’t be allowed to contain more than five or six rounds.

    “If you haven’t hit the deer with three shots, you’re a pretty lousy shot. The deer deserves to get away,” he said.

    I have no love lost for Michael Bloomberg, but he and I are in very close agreement on this issue.

    On the rest? Well, at least he’s not a fucking nutjob. Just a corporate elitist.

  229. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:49

    “We want to give it away. The goal is to have workable designs that anyone can use and modify as they please.”

    it’s been said before, but i will say it again: what could jpossibly go wrong?

  230. bughunter said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:50

    Santa has a message for the NRA.

    (SFW unless you work in a place where you probably shouldn’t be reading S,N! anyway…)

  231. jim the heretical anti-cliff lemming said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:56

    YES!!! They went full wingnut!

    Yow.

    That very much did not go as planned. Never shoot your way into a corner blind unless you take enough ammo to shoot your way back out again if you have to. Dude’s Gun-Fu is biting some major ass there. Also, perhaps someone could tell Supreme Exalted Grand Mullah Of All Mullahs LaPierre that the 1930s Politburo called – they want their methodology back.

  232. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:57

    Holy crap I love the tree hair.

  233. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:58

    Even you rural types who sit there whining about wild animals and how your only choice is to pull out a rifle and shoot them are talking out your ass. You can pretend you’re billions of miles from civilization and have no other choice all you want, the simple fact is that isn’t true. Every square inch of US territory is accessible by and under the jurisdiction of police and therefore animal control services.

    around here, local police are our animal control services…the town i live in doesn’t even have a police force…we get our services through the county sheriff’s office…they are obligated to make a pass through our town x number of times per month…usually, it’s one deputy on for the entire county…i can assure you that if they got a call to come and get rid of the varmint that’s messing with your livelihood or your property, you would be laughed roundly at…

    and i don’t think anyone here would argue that anyone outside of law enforcement or military NEEDS a gun…there are very few things we literally NEED and guns would probably not make the list for most here…would i love to see that there are no more guns anywhere? hell yes…like i’ve said before, i hate guns…but a gun in hubbkfs hand while he’s out hunting pheasant, not an issue for me…i don’t see them as a problem…an absolute ban on assault weapons and the ammo…i’m all for it…

    what you perceive as whining is merely a different way of life than what you have experienced…it’s not wrong, it’s not right…it’s different…

  234. the prince of death said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:58

    This is from the NRA press conference:

    “The truth is that our society is populated by an unknown number of
    genuine monsters — people so deranged, so evil, so possessed by
    voices and driven by demons that no sane person can possibly ever
    comprehend them. They walk among us every day. And does anybody
    really believe that the next Adam Lanza isn’t planning his attack on a
    school he’s already identified at this very moment?”

    Do I need to add anything? Really?

  235. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:01

    Do I need to add anything? Really?

    he read ‘state of fear’ at a formative age…

  236. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:02

    Holy crap I love the tree hair.

    maury povich made me laff…and wtf? jailhouse christmas card?!

  237. mat said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:06

    From the new wire:

    Pepe le Pew, Vice-President of the National Cat Fucking Alliance, today made the bold announcement that, in order to not allow psychopaths wielding military-grade weapons to murder any more school children, we should just preemptively kill all our children like Sherman burning and laying waste to the South in the Civil War, that way not giving the criminal psychos the satisfaction of mass murdering children.

    Brilliant!

    Meanwhile, back in reality, the beat goes on for gun-wielding mass murderers…

  238. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:08

    i can assure you that if they got a call to come and get rid of the varmint that’s messing with your livelihood or your property, you would be laughed roundly at…

    …or,…ummm,…they refer said complainer me or one of my neighbors.
    Someone picking up my dinner tab when I go to town works for me.

  239. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:08

    The group’s top lobbyist, Wayne LaPierre, said at a Washington news conference that “the next Adam Lanza,” the man responsible for last week’s mayhem, is planning an attack on another school.

    “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” LaPierre said.

    BE AFRAID! Too bad it’s impossible to make it even the tiniest bit harder for “bad guys” to get guns or ammo or body armor.

    He blamed video games, movies and music videos for exposing children to a violent culture day in and day out.

    But not guns, heavens no!

    And “NRA calls for armed police officer in every school” but let me guess, the government should fund this little increase in gun sales and personnel? God knows we can’t ask the cash rich lobbying organization or highly profitable corporations to pay for their wet-dream world.

  240. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:12

    to
    Insert where appropriate.

  241. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:19

    Like I said the other day, maybe we ought to license different classes of guns separately, just like we do different classes of vehicles. Shotguns should be like cars, the first level and easiest to get but still requiring a test and periodic renewal, and handguns maybe like big rigs or airplanes or something, requiring schooling or ongoing training hours or whatever. And maybe assault weapons or whatnot could be handled like DKW wants to handle all guns, so if you think it’s fun you could still go to a range and shoot one, but it would live there. Aren’t machine guns like that now?

  242. El Manquécito said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:27

    More whining:

    Today I’m making pollo estofado, the elusive #8 in the seven famous moles of Oaxaca, out of one of our home grown pollos gordos. Toasted and soaked anchos and pasillas, tomatoes and tomatillos cooked and blendered with the chilis, sesame seeds (toasted and ground), onion, garlic, prunes, pecans, cinnamon, cloves, fresh thyme and oregano all fried together then blendered, then fried again as a slush. Half a cup sesame seeds (toasted and ground) with 3 cups chicken stock added to slush and simmered. Large (7 pound) chicken, cut in 8 pieces, browned on the grill and added to pot. Simmer an hour, add capers, olives and pickled jalapeños, salt to taste. Don’t expect this if you order estofado in España.

  243. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:33

    …or,…ummm,…they refer said complainer me or one of my neighbors.
    Someone picking up my dinner tab when I go to town works for me.

    even with your explanatory insertable ‘to’ i don’t get what you are saying here…i am blaming the dialysis nurses who have been feeding me plateloads of chocolately sugary things…i will not be able to take a blood sugar reading until the middle of january at this rate…

  244. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:34

    oh, ha…ha…reading comprehension: how do it work? i now picked up what you threw down…

  245. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:36

    Okay Pup, I apologize. Not accepting my premises does not mean that you are arguing against them. You’re just saying that I haven’t demonstrated that more guns = more gun crime.

    I don’t know what would count as proof for you. If my premise is correct then you would expect to see certain things – like populations with high gun ownership having higher gun crime rates. That’s what we see. You would expect that a given population that significantly changed their gun ownership levels would see related changes in gun crime. From Australia’s buyback and ban, that’s what we see. You would expect that violent crime rates in the US would peak coincident with gun ownership rates. So, high through the 70s and 80s, dropping in the late 90s. Check.

    Have I demonstrated causality? Most definitely not. Correlation is not causation. Is there enough data to imply a potential causal relationship? I certainly think so. Is “potential” causality enough reason to take action? Ten thousand people every year are murdered with firearms in the United States of America.

  246. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:36

    tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:19

    totes agree with you…

  247. Major Kong said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:40

    Today I’m making pollo estofado

    Me gusta mucho.

    That’s what keeps me from making mole more than about once a year – the two pages of ingredients.

  248. El Manquécito said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:49

    That’s what keeps me from making mole more than about once a year – the two pages of ingredients.

    I was at my favorite spice & chilis stall in the Abastos market in Oaxaca once and the woman ahead of me was buying the supplies for making a mole for 150 people at a family gathering. Her total was almost 60 kilos of ingredients, nearly a pound per person not including meat.

  249. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:50

    re: “not even wrong” and “not worth consideration”

    I hope I haven’t given the impression that I am unwilling to learn. Yeah I’m ignorant about rural life. Longest time I’ve spent on a farm is three days. Long enough to learn what fresh farm eggs taste like. I haven’t a clue about the difficulties that most farmers face. But if they aren’t explained to me, how the hell am I supposed to know?

    I will say that I find it difficult to believe that the difficulties rural people have with animals is a larger problem than gun violence. Willing to be educated on that though.

  250. Smut Clyde said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:53

    He’s right, and I stand corrected. This does help prove my point, though
    Ha! “This is central to my point”.

    Why is it you that has to do the shooting? Why can’t that service be provided by some sort of officially sanctioned agency?

    I am down with the idea of El Manquécito being that officially sanctioned agency.

  251. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:54

    Yeah. Our local CO has a two-three county area to cover.(depending on the season) Sixteen officers (including two ranking officers who don’t patrol) to cover the entire Upper Peninsula. They get run pretty ragged dealing with some fairly stupid shit. The “Cuffs and Collars” page in the Outdoor News paper is freakin’ hilarious most of the time.
    They don’t mind a little help now and then from people they trust.

  252. Smut Clyde said,

    December 21, 2012 at 21:55

    “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” LaPierre said.

    You might want to consider the Ambrose Bierce approach to arms dealers. Give him a check for forty-two million tumtums.

  253. El Manquécito said,

    December 21, 2012 at 22:16

    I will say that I find it difficult to believe that the difficulties rural people have with animals is a larger problem than gun violence.

    Don’t think I implied that. How about “There should be a way to regulate firearms in such a way to reduce gun violence without making farmers’ lives more difficult and less profitable than they already are.” Can we agree on that?

  254. Bitter Scribe said,

    December 21, 2012 at 22:16

    Smut Clyde: Thanks. I’d never heard of that story and I luuuuuves me some Ambrose Bierce.

  255. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 22:27

    I will say that I find it difficult to believe that the difficulties rural people have with animals is a larger problem than gun violence. Willing to be educated on that though.
    I can only speak to my own experience, and yes I understand that anecdote =/= evidence.
    I have lived in both urban and rural areas. My family is from up here. My parents moved to Flint for work, so I grew up in the city. By the time I got the hell out, the murder rate led the nation. One of the popular souvenirs a few years back was a t-shirt with a picture of a revolver that read “Come Back to Flint,…We Missed You the First Time” Not a nice place after GM pulled out. I moved back to the U.P. first chance I got. It is very sparsely populated since the mines petered out. Most people up here own firearms. I would venture (warning, this is coming straight out of my ass) at a rate as high as anywhere in the nation. Yet,…gun murders are rare. They happen, but at a rate low enough that each one is front page news everywhere. There is no way that the rate of firearm ownership in the Flint area even compares. The total number may be higher, but I imagine that would be expected of any metro area.
    I guess the point of this rambling mess is that looking at total numbers across entire nations, lumping urban and rural together, tells very little.
    Different circumstances, different problems.
    Finding an absolute one-size-fits-all solution seems to me to be a fool’s errand.

  256. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 21, 2012 at 22:28

    Can we agree on that?

    Yes. There should definitely be a way to fix things without causing what little is left of the non-factory-farm agriculture industry to go extinct.

    On the new topic of agriculture – my first delivery from the CSA is waiting for me at home right now. I’m told there are sunflower shoots in it. What do I do with them?

  257. El Manquécito said,

    December 21, 2012 at 22:33

    Sunflower shoots are somewhere between alfalfa sprouts and mung bean sprouts. Good in salads, excellent in spring rolls, a little too nutty and wilty for pad thai or stir fries.

  258. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 22:38


    I’m told there are sunflower shoots in it. What do I do with them?
    .
    Sunflower shoots are somewhere between alfalfa sprouts and mung bean sprouts.

    oh, you people and your exotica…i got excited the other day because the only local grocery store had ground up gingerroot in a jar…

  259. El Manquécito said,

    December 21, 2012 at 22:46

    I’m told there are sunflower shoots in it.

    Ask them to do pea shoots. It’s a specific variety of pea, grown like sprouts to about 10cm with 3-5 leaves. Really fine texture and delicate pea flavor for blanching or stir fries.

  260. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:02

    my first delivery from the CSA

    also, too…what’s CSA?

  261. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:04

    Community Supported Agriculture.

  262. VCarlson said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:06

    Cerb, before I read the 258+ comments: Thank you. You spoke my mind.

  263. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:14

    Community Supported Agriculture.

    so, is it like a co-op or a subscription service? and you get random veggies and other foods from agricultural type persons?

    there’s some nuns around here that have an amazing outlay of organics…and a couple of organic farms, that i see participate in csa…which i just read up on in our local ‘pride of the prairie’ publication…that i have looked at, but apparently didn’t READ…

  264. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:22

    It is exactly that. Almost. Since I live in LEAFS SUCK, there is some non-local supplementation, but generally a subscription service with random mostly local vegetables and fruits. This week we are also getting a sourdough and a mystery cheese.

  265. Whale Chowder said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:23

    my first delivery from the CSA

    I thought the Confederate States of America disbanded.

    sunflower shoots

    Silly, sunflowers are terrible marksmen.

  266. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:25

    a mystery cheese

    this sounds pretty chancy to me…what if it’s limburger?

  267. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:27

    omg…i think the dialysis nurses are banding together to see if they can get my diabeetus to overwhelm my kidneys so i can partake of their services…jesus, h, they have the holiday cheer over there…i just finished a slab of coconut cake that was divine…however, i now have a headache and feel rather ooey…

  268. gocart mozart said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:34

    Big Dead Breitbarts Big Stupid Article Today
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/12/21/Polito-Hitler-Photos-NRA-Chief

    It’s not a Nazi salute, it’s a Black Power salute you asshats.

  269. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:35

    My husband told me the other day he was sure he’d caught the diabeetus and his leg was about to fall off. I told I’d be happy to protect him and eat the rest of the cookies but the bastard got better.

  270. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:38

    I told I’d be happy to protect him and eat the rest of the cookies but the bastard got better.

    gawd, even though men are bullet proof, they are just a-holes…

  271. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:39

    It’s not a Nazi salute, it’s a Black Power salute you asshats.

    Looks like a turtle punching at an invisible giant.

  272. tigris said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:40

    He has been helping me avoid breast cancer so I guess he could be worse.

  273. Pupienus said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:41

    The folks like Pup who are sitting here claiming they need “proof” that gun availability leads to more gun violence are the ones being obtuse.

    Nowhere did I make that claim. [Cf. infra].

    By sheer logic, gun violence can only occur where guns are readily available

    THAT I will agree to stipulate. But that is (1) not what was being argued and (2) not even relevant to the original proposition that I objected to.

    Claiming that gun violence somehow levels off or even decreases as the number of available guns increases is laughable on its face.

    You are countering an argument I did not make. [Cf. infra]


    Also, I find it interesting how suddenly you need to be an expert on something to debate about it. I guess that there huntin’ stuff is just too gosh durn complex ‘n important fer us silly cityfolk to even begin to understand.

    Again, not what’s happening here. You’re putting words in my mouth. [Cf. infra] You don’t have to be an expert but if you want to be taken seriously you can’t just talk out your ass. What happened here is that someone completely ignorant of the particular realities suggested several policies, fairly specific ones, for legislative action. Policies which, when viewed in the light of reality by people who are not completely unaware of the situation, are just fucking stupid ideas. We said so. We said _why_ they wouldn’t work. But NOOOOOOO, The Dunning-Kruger star keeps telling us that WE are wrong. Cityfolk Anyone wanting to base policy on their utter lack of knowledge about the subject is a twatwaffle. When they insist that they know better than the people who actually do know better they are insufferable asshats.


    If you’re too lazy to actually explain why ideas are poor or will not work, just say so, Pup. Don’t become a sanctimonious douchebag and pretend that your vast hunting and gun knowledge is just unattainable and those who disagree with you will just never understand.

    We did. I wrote that “sanctimonuious” rant only AFTER said ideas were pointed out to be unworkable, absurd even, by several people including myself. Now here’s what really burns my socks: You get all righteousy and insist that not only doesn’t it matter that someone hasn’t the first fucking idea what you are talking about but that YOUR IGNORANCE is just as good as or better than MY KNOWLEDGE. After making our criticisms you fucking double down and tell us WE ARE WRONG because …. because … because you just are! Each such contraduiction grows steadily more fantastical, invoking ever more imaginative reality-free assertions and proposals and justifications and … Philip of Occam rolled over in his grave and vomited. Our reality based objections to your ignorant fantasies don’t matter. All I hear is “I know better than you what’s good for you.” Fuck. That. Noise.

    ————————–

    I have been “debating” gun control with a bunch of libertarian and teabilly types. They keep countering arguments I did not make. Apparently, upon seeing _any_ objection what so ever to _any_ prior assertion within their jingoist mantras they stop reading what I wrote and supply their own text straight out of their fevered little imaginations. They don’t read what I actually wrote, they read what they expect to hear from an “opponent.” More than a few times, I got heated counter-arguments to banning private gun ownership. Which argument i never made in the first place.

    The situation here seems to be the mirror image. A few people among us who ideologically cling to a complete ban see my objections to this or that point and go on to supply their own ideas of what it was I actually said. So, I am not against gun regulation. In fact I am strongly for more strict regulation and, critically, enforcement.

    A total gun ban is, if I may, a shotgun approach. It can’t possibly happen in the current political climate. An obsessive focus on a complete ban is, at best, tilting at windmills. In fact, it diverts attention from the very important issue of doing something that could actually be done to fix the problem

  274. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:42

    PENIS

  275. gocart mozart said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:43

    He has been helping me avoid breast cancer so I guess he could be worse.

    What a nice man

  276. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:45

    He has been helping me avoid breast cancer so I guess he could be worse.

    you always make me laff…

  277. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:47

    PENIS

    before i click on that, is it going to be a horrifically ugly fish that will give me the willies now and show up in bad dreams later?

  278. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:48

    “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” LaPierre said.

    Patently false

    Gadzooks, LaPierre is one of the world’s most loathsome creatures.

  279. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:49

    before i click on that, is it going to be a horrifically ugly fish that will give me the willies now and show up in bad dreams later?

    I hope that fish won’t give you its willy! It’s not that bad a fish, not like some of those deep-see anglerfish.

  280. Pupienus said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:52

    Every square inch of US territory is accessible by and under the jurisdiction of police and therefore animal control services.

    QEWTF?

    Neither you nor anyone else other than law enforcement and military types need a tool whose only purpose is killing. That’s the price we pay for living in a civilized world now.

    I knew more than a few people back in the section of Appalachia where i spent the first part of my life who NEEDED a tool the only purpose of which is killing to FEED THEIR FAMILIES. Your sociographic scope is broken, nonfunctional. And once again, when someone else decides what I need, well I say this to them: Fuck off.

  281. gocart mozart said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:52

    Speaking of Big Dead Breibart . . . Here is an update on the Shirley Sherrod lawsuit.
    http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2012/10/judge-disappointed-by-lack-of-information-about-andrew-breitbarts-estate.html

  282. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:52

    Now here’s what really burns my socks:

    you saying this reminded me that i have a food related question fer yew…

    my socks are burned right now because a couple of days ago, i was going to purchase pork shoulder for christmas dinner…i thought i would be a good citizen and purchase said pork shoulder in town…the grocery store had zilch, so i went to the butcher and he said, ‘unpossible! i do not have…but here is this ham that is so much better! i ended up paying $62.52 for a goddamn ham…i am still in a bit of sticker shock…and have once again vowed to NOT frequent his meat market again…he’s a meat nazi and always, always bullies one into purchasing bigger and more costlier cuts, which you can’t blame him as a business person, but goddamn it, if i want A CERTAIN CUT that’s what i want…cut the bullshit and just give it to me…anyhoo, i know have a 15 lb. whole shankless ham…i am proposing to cut it in half and save the other half for another meal…can i still do the nigella pork shoulder recipe?

  283. bughunter said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:54

    OMG, thanks Clyde!

    The site of his Ambrose Bierce link has a wealth of rich content, including one of my favorite ultra-short stories from the Omni Magazine days of yore, and lots more:

    You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other.

    That one reads best if you imagine the speakers with Eric Idle’s and John Cleese’s accents.

  284. bbkf said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:56

    I hope that fish won’t give you its willy! It’s not that bad a fish, not like some of those deep-see anglerfish.

    you’re right…as far as looks and fish go, not so bad…it does appear that its technique may be a bit wanting to the lady fish…

    This penis includes a rod and a jagged hook used for grabbing the female during sex.

    you are correct…i do not want that fish to give me his willy…ouch…

  285. bughunter said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:57

    Looks like a turtle punching at an invisible giant.

    Looks like a midget giving an NBA center a handy…

  286. El Manquécito said,

    December 21, 2012 at 23:59

    My husband told me the other day he was sure he’d caught the diabeetus and his leg was about to fall off.

    When I first moved to the deeply rural south (Okefenokee), we got a visit from our nearest neighbor, a frail, small woman in her late 70′s. She explained to us that her husband was doing poorly because he had the “prostrate cancer” and the eye contact between my wife and I almost caught fire with laughter. We mastered the temptation and turned back to her with the required “Bless his heart…” stuff but we never forgot it. Prostrate cancer is the disease of the South.

  287. bbkf said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:02


    You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other.

    That one reads best if you imagine the speakers with Eric Idle’s and John Cleese’s accents.

    i read that just before clicking on the bretiblart/sherrod link…which talked about SLAPP and anti-SLAPP…which was even better imagining it with the cleese and idle accents…

  288. Pupienus said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:04

    Okay Pup, I apologize. Not accepting my premises does not mean that you are arguing against them. You’re just saying that I haven’t demonstrated that more guns = more gun crime.
    In the words of the parole officer to H.I., Okay then.

    I don’t know what would count as proof for you.

    I’m really not asking for proof. More guns will in fact most likely lead to more gun violence. Most assuredly that’s the case in the U.S. In other places, maybe not so much. I objected to it because it’s worthless in making a serious argument about gun control.

    As I said before, it’s not the number of guns that matters, it’s what kind they are, who has them, how they are regulated, how the laws are enforced, what kleads to fetishization, et fucking cetera. A complete ban in the U.S. is untenable, so I want to move the attention to the shit that really matters.

    Proposing and arguing for a total ban gets us exactly nowhere. Worse, it distracts form the shit that really does matter, and is possible.

  289. bbkf said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:04

    i always enjoy those who use ‘the’ before a condition…

  290. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:11

    The female fish’s genital opening is also located at her throat.

    Oh pleasepleaseplease somebody more clever than me…

  291. Pupienus said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:13

    Ham would not do at all for that recipe. For ham, you need Nigella’s Coca Cola ham recipe. I know, I know. The first time I made it I must have been stoned out of my gourd because eeeeew, Coca Cola ham?!?!?!

    Try it. You’ll like it. And mos def make the black bean soup.*

    I’ll also say that 60-couple bucks for a 15 pound boneless ham is not bad at all. Four bucks a pound for _good_ ham is actually a pretty good deal.

    *You’ll understand when you read her recipe and shit.

  292. Suezboo said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:18

    bbkf. I hear you on exotica.(food, that is)
    Our local store just stopped stocking taramasolata, of which I am inordinately fond, because (and I quote) You were the only person buying it.
    Snif. Another Big City treat gone.

  293. bughunter said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:19

    PENIS

    Reminds me of this, but not so scary.

    (NSFW content, but an innocuous URL if you think someone’s reviewing your http logs…)

  294. gocart mozart said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:19

    Woody asks a girl out
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Jbnueb2OI4o

  295. Pupienus said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:20

    I objected to it because it’s worthless in making a serious argument about gun control.

    And also because I’m a rhetoric pedant. Too.

  296. Pupienus said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:24

    You’re right – that’s not the Hitler Bellamy salute.

  297. bughunter said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:27

    Gadzooks, LaPierre is one of the world’s most loathsome creatures.

    Agreed. The only thing worse than that speech was the fact that NPR interrupted its programming for twenty-something minutes to give the troll a nationwide audience.

    The only other thing worth listening to is Pacifica Radio, but I have no signal for KPFK on half of my commute. And Thomm Hartmann moved to noon… the radio dial in LA is a fucking wasteland.

  298. Pupienus said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:35

    The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 21, 2012 at 20:40 (kill)

    Ahhhh crap.

    That link caught my eye becaause it’s WJAC-TV (Broadcasting from high atop the Alleghenies), one of the two stations we could watch in that part of Appalachia where I “grew up” which I had mentioned earlier.

    Also and too, where in the UP are you, Mr. Mayor? My mother was born in Wakefield. I have relatives in Iron Mountain and I really really miss going to my uncle’s cabin at Trout Lake.

  299. bbkf said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:39

    Ham would not do at all for that recipe.

    poop…

    I’ll also say that 60-couple bucks for a 15 pound boneless ham is not bad at all.

    i realize that now after i did the math…but at the time, i was expecting to pay about half that…also, too…butcher is a freaking bully…anyhoo, i have heard of pouring various sodas over ham, so will check out nigella’s recipe…thanks for saving my bacon once again…

  300. Pupienus said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:43

    What if it’s limburger liederkranz?

    The only reson I bring it up is to relate that I once heard a story that they couldn’t make the cheese in the squeaky clean new factory until they brought in a wooden beam with the correct bacteria from the old factory.

  301. El Manquécito said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:51

    Re: taramasolata

    There’s a word I’d never seen, but after research I know the concept. I’ve had it with smelt roe and corn meal (fantastic) and cod roe with potatoes (can be really good) but didn’t know it was something folks put in cans and sent to remote locations. Good on you Suez, like DKW I can be edumucated.

  302. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:51

    I started a comment about guns but then it got really really long so I just put it on my [blatant whore]blahg[/blatant whore].

    Now I’m gonna go drink a bunch. Happy solstice.

  303. tigris said,

    December 22, 2012 at 0:59

    before i click on that, is it going to be a horrifically ugly fish that will give me the willies now and show up in bad dreams later?

    I thought it was pretty horrifying. I mean, PENIS HOOK?!!! Eep.

    Prostrate cancer is the disease of the South.

    A former coworker up here was talking about prostrate exams(the only detail about the conversation I recall, apparently the brain shut down in self defense), though I think he was from the south coast so your observation may still hold…

  304. N__B said,

    December 22, 2012 at 1:09

    The problem with penis hooks is getting the worms to stay on.

  305. Thursday said,

    December 22, 2012 at 1:10

    Gadzooks, LaPierre is one of the world’s most loathsome creatures.

    Agreed. The only thing worse than that speech was the fact that NPR interrupted its programming for twenty-something minutes to give the troll a nationwide audience.

    They should have interrupted for the live shooting going on at the same time. That would have been fun.

    Dammit, I write up ten arguments for the gun lobby, and they spend all their time with “It were the media that done it!”? Bah!

  306. VCarlson said,

    December 22, 2012 at 1:14

    From one of the vile people Cerb quoted:

    You have to set boundaries. You have to say, “You can’t live here anymore — you’re an adult, and it’s time for you to be a man. We’ll give you all the support you need, but we won’t be enablers.” Unfortunately, the idea of being an “adult” and a “man” once one has reached physical maturity seems to have faded out of our coddling culture.

    Words fail me. That shithead can think of whatever it would hate most and apply that to itself. Sometimes, keeping your adult child at home is the best of bad choices. Just ask my folks, who had my schizophrenic, bipolar, FSM knows what else stepbrother living in their garage* until he turned 50 and the Great State of Texas would allow him to live in a Group Home. And just in time, too – he was starting to resent it when his mother reminded him about his meds.

    *In an efficiency apartment arrangement, and they tried just about everything else short of abandoning him to the street.

  307. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 22, 2012 at 1:17

    Also and too, where in the UP are you, Mr. Mayor?

    South of Wetmore in the middle of freakin’ nowhere normally, but since I couldn’t winter there this year I’m renting a li’l place in Munising. If I’m not near a lake I freak right the fuck out. The Big One works just fine.
    My mother was born in Wakefield. I have relatives in Iron Mountain and I really really miss going to my uncle’s cabin at Trout Lake.

    I know these places. Way west. Not suomalainen are ya?
    A friend went bear hunting (something that appeals to me ’bout like golf. They don’t taste so good to me) near Trout Lake this year. Gorgeous over there. I used to poke around them parts when I was at Tech.
    …which is why they bounced me out on my arse.

  308. Substance McGravitas said,

    December 22, 2012 at 1:21

    I’m from the Land of Make-Believe.

  309. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 22, 2012 at 1:30

    . Not suomalainen are ya

    Not a bit. My enatic ancestors came mostly out of Scotland and vicinity sometime in the early 1800s. I don’t know if it was by their own choice.

    I haven’t fished Trout Lake in some decades. Maybe I should get in contact with those relatives and see if I can’t get back there. Next year. Next summer. I know from UP winters.

  310. tigris said,

    December 22, 2012 at 1:34

    You have to set boundaries. You have to say, “You can’t live here anymore — you’re an adult, and it’s time for you to be a man. We’ll give you all the support you need, but we won’t be enablers.”

    How would that have stopped Newtown in a country where any damn body can get any and as many guns as they want? How would this notion have stopped Aurora, or Virginia Tech? The Paducah and Columbine shooters were kids, how would kicking mentally ill 20 year olds out of their homes have hindered those shootings? What mean-spirited idiocy.

  311. Whale Chowder said,

    December 22, 2012 at 1:50

    How would that have stopped Newtown in a country where any damn body can get any and as many guns as they want?

    I recognize this is a rhetorical question but her laughably literal point is that kicking the Asperger Syndrome kid out would make him grow up and become a responsible taxpaying (or tax-protesting) adult. This is a perspective which deserves to be described explicitly in order to demonstrate just how fucking stupid and hateful this woman is.

  312. tigris said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:13

    Kicking the mentally ill out onto the streets is better than therapy!

  313. kg said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:17

    That pink fish paste is really good.

  314. mat said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:18

    Our latest gun-toting mass murderer shot Church Lady!

    Paging Wayne LaPierre: Do we blame Mortal Kombat for this one too?

  315. tigris said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:23

    If only we hadn’t kicked God out of our churches…

  316. kg said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:23

    Taramasalata served i the n Greek restaurants, usually I’m the only one eating it

    Reminder : alcohol and smart phone not so smart

  317. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:25

    FYWP I am not going too fast!

    What mean-spirited idiocy.

    It’s twit handle is “meancharlotte”.
    Surprised?

  318. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:29

    *chorlte*

    KOPB announcer just said I-5 is closed south of Grants Pass. Not surprising, that, Siskiyou Summit can be pretty nasti. She went on to encourage people to use an alternate route. Now everyone go look at the map and see if you can identify alternate routes from Grants Pass to northern California, Yreka say. Ones that don’t cross the Siskiyou peaks. wait, don’t go look at a map – I’ll just tell you there ain’t any alternate routes. Oh sure, you could go over to the coast to hit 101 then down that two lane disaster until it finally becomes a real road south of Eureka. Over to Klamath Falls? Nope, there’s a five or six thousand foot pass on a narrow two lane road involved in that several hundred mile detour.

    Fuck you, it’s the last Friday THAT WILL EVER BE and I’m bored, waiting for Teh Ho to come home from work so I can start drinking. YOU ARE MY ONLY HOPE SadlyNoKenobi!

  319. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:32

    I’ve drunk those bottles of Budweiser that they make with the labels saying “Molson Lager”.

    NOW WAIT JUST A FUCKIN MINUTE HERE!!!
    THAT is something up with I SHALL NOT PUT!!!!

  320. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:33

    Sometimes, keeping your adult child at home is the best of bad choices.

    One of my uncles had a serious head injury when he was a kid (he had a steel plate in his skull), and he lived at home with my grandparents, and then my aunt, until he died. He had a close-knit community that watched out for him, and a union which made sure he wasn’t exploited on the job. I went down to the union hall when he put in his retirement papers, and I was in the Ancestral Homestead with him the night he died. He lived as well as someone with a serious head injury could live, all because he had a nurturing family, a supportive community, and a responsive union. My hate-on for the right wing is seething even more than usual today.

  321. tigris said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:34

    waiting for Teh Ho to come home from work so I can start drinking

    You are such a good person.

  322. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:40

    Big Bad Bald Bastard said,
    December 21, 2012 at 23:48

    “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” LaPierre said.

    Patently false…

    Gadzooks, LaPierre is one of the world’s most loathsome creatures.

    Won’t be arsed to redo the links. In addition to the demonstration BBBB supplies, Columbine had armed guards who engaged the shooters and it didn’t work out so well. I’m willing to be cash money Wayne LaPuke also knows that about Dolumbine and also about B^4′s links. Which shows him to be a monster, a very evil person.

  323. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:40

    Taramasalata served i the n Greek restaurants, usually I’m the only one eating it

    Yeah, it’s good, and that pastel pink color is pretty unreal. Bottarga is also really good, and shad roe is a regional, seasonal delicacy here in the Northeast.

  324. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:42

    You are such a good person.

    WHAT THE FUCK HAVE I LET MYSELF BECOME!??!!?!

  325. bughunter said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:44

    The only part of LaPierre’s speech worth watching.

  326. Nym said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:44

    Keep fucking that chicken, Charlotte.

  327. Suezboo said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:46

    El M : Now you know how I feel when I read your fabulous recipes. I recognize mebbe two ingredients among the very many spices and peppers in your South American (I assume) dishes – like garlic and chili peppers. The rest are incomprehensible to me. I like Greek.

  328. VCarlson said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:49

    So, I’m visiting family in Texas, and this morning I open the paper to discover there’s a small town about 150 mi from DFW that’s proud that its teachers already carry concealed.

  329. Smut Clyde said,

    December 22, 2012 at 2:57

    Kicking the mentally ill out onto the streets is better than therapy!

    It is therapy, tigris. I calls it the Diogenes Method.

  330. tigris said,

    December 22, 2012 at 3:15

    he Sandy Hook massacre was a tragedy, but it was at least in part a tragedy of the collision between feminist delusions and reality.

    She thinks men are able to magically stop bullets, contrary to all evidence, but has the temerity to talk about other people’s “delusions”? Jesus.

    I calls it the Diogenes Method.

    We should start a club!

  331. Spearhafoc, whose nym is Old English for "sparrowhawk" said,

    December 22, 2012 at 3:29

    People in this thread brought up LaPierre’s attack on the mentally ill, but I haven’t seen mention of his call for a national database for people with mental problems.

    I have Autism, OCD, and Depression. Apparently I belong on a national registry, but an automatic assault rifle doesn’t.

  332. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 22, 2012 at 3:30

    Speaking of educated, had the sunflower shoots with the spinach that was also in the delivery as a salad. Just olive oil and cider vinegar on it. Could have used goat cheese. The nutiness was surprising. The sourdough was tangier than I like but the texture was incredible.

    Mystery cheese is a saler. Apparently being saved for an Xmas platter with crackers.

  333. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 22, 2012 at 3:32

    Spearhafoc, whose nym is Old English for “sparrowhawk” said,
    December 22, 2012 at 3:29

    People in this thread brought up LaPierre’s attack on the mentally ill, but I haven’t seen mention of his call for a national database for people with mental problems.

    I have Autism, OCD, and Depression. Apparently I belong on a national registry, but an automatic assault rifle doesn’t.

    Wrong nation, you silly Canadianist.

  334. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 22, 2012 at 3:41

    Salers. Apparently it’s a French appellation cheese. WTF? I know there’s supplementation with non-local, but it’s cheese! Why is my CSA giving me cheese from across the Atlantic?!?! Sure it’s winter now, but cheese!

    Something is awry here. I’m probably reading something wrong

  335. Jennifer said,

    December 22, 2012 at 3:46

    I finally got around to posting my own gun post. Better yet, I posted a David Sedaris reading on the next post down the page. If you haven’t heard it, you don’t know what you’re missing.

  336. Another Kiwi said,

    December 22, 2012 at 3:50

    Whereas I’m just happy that I know what DFW means. Fucking internationalist, me.

  337. Smut Clyde said,

    December 22, 2012 at 3:51

    We should start a club!

    Would it have me as a member?

  338. Jeffraham, Warm Cave said,

    December 22, 2012 at 4:06

    Please to hold my beer. I must pee.
    .

  339. tigris said,

    December 22, 2012 at 4:29

    his call for a national database for people with mental problems.

    Jared Loughner was never diagnosed with mental illness, Kip Kinkel was declared well enough to cease any treatment, James Holmes apparently never had any sort of diagnosis, Klebold and Harris were diagnosed by FBI psychiatrists long after the crime, and I’m not sure if we know enough about Lanza yet… so, would this database have stopped any of these crimes? Not saying we shouldn’t do something, but it’s not a magic, um, projectile thingie.

  340. Bitter Scribe said,

    December 22, 2012 at 4:33

    Sometimes, keeping your adult child at home is the best of bad choices.

    My older brother is a high-scale autistic who has to live at home. My parents took care of him until they died, then my older sister (who has plenty of her own health problems) took over.

    My brother could not possibly function on his own. The house could collapse around his ears and he wouldn’t notice. (That’s barely an exaggeration. Once my sister didn’t know there was two inches of water in the basement, where he lives, until she went down there to do laundry. There was my brother, placidly watching TV on a bed that had become an island.) If she weren’t around, the alternative would be living with me (which would pretty much wreck my life) or moving into God knows what group home I could get to take him.

    But according to Denis Leary, and probably Cerb’s friend too, he’s just a “brat.”

  341. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 22, 2012 at 4:35

    Fuckin’ Facebook Keyboard Kommandos.
    I hope this wind dies down. I desperately need to go trudging across the tundra.

  342. Bitter Scribe said,

    December 22, 2012 at 4:36

    What exactly does LaPierre propose to do with this database of the mentally ill? Would he forbid them to buy guns? That doesn’t seem in character.

  343. tigris said,

    December 22, 2012 at 4:52

    We should start a club!

    Would it have me as a member?

    If you start it it’s up to you…

  344. Jeffraham, Warm Cave said,

    December 22, 2012 at 5:01

    What exactly does LaPierre propose to do with this database of the mentally ill? Would he forbid them to buy guns? That doesn’t seem in character.

    Well, duh! He plans to hunt them down and shoot them before they can shoot us!
    .

  345. Major Kong said,

    December 22, 2012 at 5:06

    his call for a national database for people with mental problems

    I think they already have that. It’s called the NRA membership listing.

  346. Jeffraham, Warm Cave said,

    December 22, 2012 at 5:08

    I think they already have that. It’s called the NRA membership listing.

    That’s just a part of it. The rest is the GOP voter roll.
    .

  347. tigris said,

    December 22, 2012 at 5:20

    OUCH.

  348. Smut Clyde said,

    December 22, 2012 at 5:27

    his call for a national database for people with mental problems.

    I can see several advantages for singling out people with mental problems:

    (1) The usual ‘us / other’ distinction. Gun proliferation among the nominally sane ceases to be a problem once attention has been diverted to a small minority.

    (2) Short-term sop. Legislation that removes 2nd-Amendment rights from a minority — a minority known not to be any more dangerous than anyone else — can always be overturned later on constitutional equal-protection grounds, having served its purpose, once the current wave of anti-firearms sentiment has ebbed away again.

  349. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 22, 2012 at 5:28

    Jennifer, outstanding.

  350. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 22, 2012 at 5:29

    People in this thread brought up LaPierre’s attack on the mentally ill, but I haven’t seen mention of his call for a national database for people with mental problems.

    I have Autism, OCD, and Depression. Apparently I belong on a national registry, but an automatic assault rifle doesn’t.

    I just posted that at Jennifer’s blog and Roy’s blog. Here’s the asshole’s quote:

    A dozen more killers, a hundred more? How can we possibly even guess how many, given our nation’s refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill? The fact is this: That wouldn’t even begin to address the much larger, more lethal criminal class — killers, robbers, rapists, gang members who have spread like cancer in every community across our nation.

    Damn, damn, damn, I hate the beast.

  351. Major Kong said,

    December 22, 2012 at 5:35

    That wouldn’t even begin to address the much larger, more lethal criminal class — killers, robbers, rapists, gang members who have spread like cancer in every community across our nation.

    Never mind the fact that crime rates have been trending downwards for years.

  352. tigris said,

    December 22, 2012 at 5:40

    A dozen more killers, a hundred more? How can we possibly even guess how many, given our nation’s refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill? The fact is this: That wouldn’t even begin to address the much larger, more lethal criminal class — killers, robbers, rapists, gang members who have spread like cancer in every community across our nation.

    Must not mention the guns, never the guns.

  353. jim the heretical anti-cliff lemming said,

    December 22, 2012 at 6:26

    Total eclipse of the shopworn blogwhoring.

  354. Helmut Monotreme said,

    December 22, 2012 at 6:48

    Wayne and the NRA are holding on to guns like they are the last lifejacket in a shipwreck. And they are the last lifejacket in a shipwreck. They look at America and they are terrified. They are terrified of an America that looks less and less like the “Leave it to Beaver” America they always had to lie to themselves to believe in. They are terrified that just being a white dude isn’t enough any more. they are terrified that a woman or a black person or a latino can vote. They are terrified by the end of of public acceptance of religious bigotry, of racism and sexism. They are terrified of an America that looks a little deeper than skin deep, an America that demands a little effort, an America that demands a little nuance. They want the good guys to be white guys in white hats and they want the bad guys to be swarthy and to wear black hats. They want the moral complexity of a John Wayne oat opera.

    And I think at long last the rest of the US is sick of it. We are sick of assassins that kill our best and brightest, sick of spree killing losers that murder innocents by the busload, sick of wannabees and used to be’s and never were’s with chips on their shoulders shooting children individually or by the carload for the crime of being young and full of life. We are sick of people getting shot by accident when a loved one mistakes them for an intruder, sick of people getting shot on purpose by a rejected lover, and of people at the end of their rope who decide to end it all. When we as Americans finally can look at these frightened little man children and say enough is enough, we are going to see the beginning of the end.

    Wayne and the NRA have a 30 or 40 year head start, but they will lose. There are probably tens of thousands of private little armories in this country, but that isn’t enough. There are tens of thosands of machine shops and even more hobbyists, in this country that can whip out an AK-47 knock off, but that won’t be enough. Soon 3-D printing (rapid prototyping, stereolithograhpy, whatever you want to call it) will allow anyone to print off a zip gun in the comfort of their plastic-reeking living room, but that wont be enough. There are millions of hunters and farmers and peaceful gun owners who would never hurt another human being, but that won’t be enough and eventually even the mighty second amendment will fall. Because Americans are finally waking up to the fact that criminals aren’t Batman. They aren’t the Joker, they aren’t Lex Luthor or Osama Bin Laden or Carlos the Jackal.

    The imaginary gang bangers and thugs that the NRA has a hate-on for are a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of the US. We have organized crime, that eschews open violence because its bad for business. We have a few violent drug gangs. but we also have an increasing movement to legalize drugs. And once we have drugs legalized and some guns outlawed, at least our SWAT teams will be conducting their no-knock raids on armories instead of families. We don’t have black markets on every corner. We don’t have a huge amount of weapons importing. It would be like carrying coals to Newcastle. We do have ubiquitous surveillance. We have cameras on every corner. We carry tracking devices every where we go and our every communication is read by an alphabet soup of domestic and foreign intelligence agencies. We have satellites and tax records and IR cameras that are every bit as good at finding arms factories as they are at finding grow houses. What I’m saying is, its a solvable problem.

    The NRA has painted itself into a corner. And it acts cornered by attacking everything that comes in reach. But change is in the air. What are all of those lawyers doing that worked for decades to get money out of big tobacco? With all of the gun deaths and casualties in this country there is a large class of plaintiffs for a class action lawsuit. And gun companies are a rich rich target.

  355. DavidTC said,

    December 22, 2012 at 7:08

    You know what I’ve always thought about the second amendment? I’m fine with it…if we operate under the idea it gives people the right to have _now_ what it gave people the right to have _when passed_.

    That means…well, it functionally means muzzle-loaders. Guns that can only fine one round before a reload and were completely impossible to hide. There were other problems with guns back then (Complete and utter inaccuracy, reloading that took an entire minute, etc), but let’s be generous and consider ‘need reload after one round’ and ‘impossible to hide’.

    So, functionally, in the modern era, everyone has the right to own a shotgun or rifle. And, hell, we can be generous and allow a double-barreled shotgun or a four or five round rifle, but be aware that is _not_ a right.

    No one has a right to a handgun. No one has a right to a semi-automatic. No one has a right to any weapon that can fire more than once without pausing to reload, and/or is concealable.

    And you even have the right to a bayonet on it if you want. But no right to a scope or laser sight.

    Of course, when I say there’s no _right_ to such a thing, nothing stops the government from _allowing_ such a thing anyway. I’m just saying that ‘arms’ does not mean what we pretend it means. The word ‘arms’, when used by the founders, did not include such things, as they did not exist. And thus those things cannot be included under the second amendment.

    Also you can apparently own a cannon under this logic. I can live with that.

  356. bughunter said,

    December 22, 2012 at 10:07

    Noice!

    Medea Benjamin was one of the protesters that interrupted the NRA fetishist in chief today.

    These people deserve more credit in the mainstream press than “hecklers” or “protesters.” They’re what’s left of our collective conscience.

  357. bughunter said,

    December 22, 2012 at 10:15

    OK, back to gratuitous alcohol consumption.

    My beverage of choice tonite is one favored at Callahan’s Crosstime Saloon.

    It’s old school geek cool, but I’m only drinking it cuz it’s good.

    Any further posts will be incoherent.

  358. El Manquecito said,

    December 22, 2012 at 10:21

    Coherence is overrated.

  359. not a gator said,

    December 22, 2012 at 11:47

    Imma just leave this right here:

    Dana Loesch suing Breitbart.com.

  360. not a gator said,

    December 22, 2012 at 12:00

    I’m surprised nobody is talking about the Whiskey Rebellion. I think that neatly refutes the notion that the framers intended for guns to be in citizen hands to fight the gubmint. (They did, OTOH, think a standing army was a fucking bad idea. Kind of for the same reason that guns in the house are a fucking bad idea. Production for use.)

    They never say it’s the right of MAN to own guns, but the right of THE PEOPLE, in other worse A POLITICAL CLASS. Up until very recently, it was very legal to deny gun ownership to certain people as well as to restrict the kinds of guns owned. The US Constitution was the first legal structure in the modern era to do away with nobility (it didn’t do away with classes entirely because slavery… this enables all kinds of 2nd class citizenship schemes because it isn’t firmly abolished … because slavery… we have an old-fashioned, sucky constitution 1.1, alpha software for a 3.0 world).

    Basically, the 2nd amendment is banning the creation of a peasant class (the creation of which the founders were eager to avoid) while tossing in another political goal–avoiding a standing army (associated with despotic states in Europe and endless, ruinous wars) by relying on the citizen’s muster. Hey, it worked in der Schweiz. Of course, they keep their big guns in the armory. Hunting rifles are much more lightly regulated. But to listen to the NRA, you need armor piercing rounds to be an independent huntin’/fishin’ type. In the early 19th century da big guns were Spanish cannon. Freedumb loving patriots (bootleggers) did not have them at home.

    And when they did rebel against Big Gubmint, Big Gubmint spanked them with extreme prejudice.

    The idea that the 2nd bans gun control regulation as has existed for centuries is as much a fantasy as the notion that the US was founded as a Christian nation.

  361. not a gator said,

    December 22, 2012 at 12:03

    Jared Loughner was never diagnosed with mental illness, Kip Kinkel was declared well enough to cease any treatment, James Holmes apparently never had any sort of diagnosis, Klebold and Harris were diagnosed by FBI psychiatrists long after the crime, and I’m not sure if we know enough about Lanza yet… so, would this database have stopped any of these crimes? Not saying we shouldn’t do something, but it’s not a magic, um, projectile thingie.

    This.

    Authoritarian Solutions™: solving nothing, causing harm. Since forever.

  362. not a gator said,

    December 22, 2012 at 12:21

    It should be noted that hunting weapons are generally in a different class (especially the ammo) from the kind of military-grade anti-personnel weaponry that is being sold, hoarded, and used in spree murders.

    Although a general de-arming of the population would be beneficial. I exempt non-sport sustenance hunters. Come travel in the Southeast and tell me that we don’t have the 3rd world right here in the USA. In pine baron country many families depend on game meat for a good portion of their annual nutrition.

    Forage used to be important, too, but it’s been replaced by “cakes we like” at Walmart, leading to a concomitant worsening of health.

  363. Smut Clyde said,

    December 22, 2012 at 12:46

    the much larger, more lethal criminal class — killers, robbers, rapists, gang members who have spread like cancer

    Buy your eliminationist rhetoric while it’s fresh shop-worn!

  364. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 22, 2012 at 14:03

    My beverage of choice tonite is one favored at Callahan’s Crosstime Saloon

    Bless me, Mike. Did we met before we met here? I’m always suspicious because of the way threads spontaneously devolve into punning here. Anyways, to the 13th Mayan Whateveryheycallit!

    < < < CRASH > > >

  365. Emiliee said,

    December 22, 2012 at 15:52

    @cerberus “People may like guns. Want guns. Love the hobbies possible with guns. But no one in the boring civilian non-law-enforcement world really needs them.”

    Do they? I don’t know and have never even met one single person who likes guns wants guns or uses guns for any hobbie possible with guns but then i don’t live in the need to overcompensate for insecure feelings of masculinity USA. Also the argument that law enforcement need them falls pretty flat when you consider that in the countries where police do not routinely carry guns the incidence of gun deaths is far lower than in the US. But then these countries have a thing called gun control – maybe if the US implemented similar then US police could stop routinely packing guns too? Hardly rocket science.

  366. Jeffraham, Warm Cave said,

    December 22, 2012 at 16:43

    I really didn’t expect to be here, today. I really didn’t expect anyone to be here today. So forgive my lack of prepared remarks. Now, let’s have a beer.
    .

  367. Jeffraham, Warm Cave (Now w/Ubuntu!) said,

    December 22, 2012 at 16:49

    I’ll share kittehs, though.
    .

  368. Austin Loomis said,

    December 22, 2012 at 17:46

    not a gator skrev:

    I’m surprised nobody is talking about the Whiskey Rebellion.

    Actually, Pupi mentions it not far above you, along with Shays’ Rebellion:

    The coup de grace came when I pointed out that both of those revolts against “government tyranny” which were put down by militia action were TAX REVOLTS.” Heads went all asplodey.

    I wonder if any of them had read L. Neil Smith’s North American Confederacy series, in which the Whiskey Rebellion succeeded and a much smaller US government therefore magically unleashed all possible human ingenuity. I was very impressed by it when I was 14 and the International Communist Conspiracy still looked like a viable threat. Then I graduated high school; the International Communist Conspiracy threw in the sponge; it became clear that they’d never even been as much of a threat to the American Way of Life™ as they wanted to be, let alone as much as the Mighty Wurlitzer told us they were; I got on the Second Renaissance catalogue mailing list (the Ayn Rand Institute’s official bookstore), indulged morbid curiosity by reading The Way Things Ought to Be in the university bookstore, and noticed that the only difference between the rhetoric of the two was that Limbaugh invoked Gawd a lot more… and, bit by bit, the bloom came off that particular rose.

  369. Fenwick said,

    December 22, 2012 at 18:37

    You’ve lost me on this one. When other people decide what I “need” and write laws around what they decide I do or do not need I get very fucking scared. Banning all guns is an extreme and overly broad reaction.

    Agree.

  370. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 22, 2012 at 18:40

    Fun with Bork’s book
    The caricature alone is worth it.

    alt.sex is on the Internet. That’s a category. They have a variety of things under alt.sex, which is alternative sex. Particularly horrifying was this alt.sex.stories. I don’t know how to work the Internet yet, but I did that research. I found it written up.

  371. Fenwick said,

    December 22, 2012 at 19:12

    …[The Sandy Hook] “feminized environment” contained any number of heroic women who threw themselves directly into the line of fire.

    This.

    Also, what is so godawful about a ‘feminized environment’ in the first place?

  372. bughunter said,

    December 22, 2012 at 19:58

    alt.sex, which is alternative sex

    I confess that when real sex is unavailable (or just too inconvenient) I have resorted to alternative sex.

  373. Another Kiwi said,

    December 22, 2012 at 20:15

    Mayor that is perfect. Bork, the Conservative intellectual, was the usual sex obsessed, narrow minded scold/idiot. There should be monument to Ted Kennedy’s blocking of him in every town square.

  374. Fenwick said,

    December 22, 2012 at 20:35

    From the first link:
    “Obsessed: Gunman Adam Lanza, 20, pictured right, was reportedly ‘obsessed’ with military shooters’ game Call of Duty, left, which features assault weapons like the Bushmaster AR-15.”

    Know what else featured a Bushmaster AR-15? His mom’s fucking house!

    Goff klapp for gocart

  375. John D. said,

    December 22, 2012 at 20:35

    “You forgot Tom Selleck and Charlton Heston.

    on purpose…they don’t strike me as being as bloodthirsty and violent nor have the cult following of norris and nugent…”

    Oh, I beg to differ, at least on the “violent and bloodthirsty” front: Selleck might not be, but Heston definitely was.

    Meanwhile, here’s a link to check out for those of you who actually think that all we need to stop “a bad guy with a gun” is “a good guy with a gun.”

    http://exiledonline.com/going-postal-at-the-empire-state-building-jokers-joshua-foust-revenge-of-the-nerds/

    As it turns out, “good guys with guns” are perfectly capable of fucking up and causing some horrific carnage themselves. (I know: Who’d a thunk it, huh?) And these were professional cops who’d been trained to deal with such events. I can only imagine the results if any of our typical NRA mouth frothers were put in charge of defending school children, for Christ’s sakes, in a similar situation.

  376. Fenwick said,

    December 22, 2012 at 20:45

    PS–I was “Sergeant Macho Grade School Hero” in the previous thread. — mat

    Always wear the Quelle Fromage with pride, sir.
    (Now I’m off to read the essay and/or rant on yer blog.)

  377. Fenwick said,

    December 22, 2012 at 21:17

    for most people, there is simply no good reason to have body armor. it is a priori evidence of intent to commit a crime, like owning burglars tools.

    Just Sayin’ is correct. Should be a blanket ban on them except to law-enforcement.

  378. Pupienus said,

    December 22, 2012 at 21:42

    Fuck. The world is still here and so am I. I shall attribute my feeling like I went through an apocalypse to last night’s THE LAST PARTY ONE EARTH.

  379. not a gator said,

    December 22, 2012 at 21:49

    I wonder if any of them had read L. Neil Smith’s North American Confederacy series, in which the Whiskey Rebellion succeeded and a much smaller US government therefore magically unleashed all possible human ingenuity. I was very impressed by it when I was 14 and the International Communist Conspiracy still looked like a viable threat.

    Who knows? I had trouble reading fiction books as a kid–unless it was a class assignment (or Dr Seuss) forget it. The closest I would get was reading ancient mythology (multiple traditions, but usually kid-friendly versions, except the Bible, which led to my enduring skepticism of same).

    However, I did stumble upon a mass market paperback from 78 or 79. I think all copies were taken back and pulped after Rayguns ascension, as is only proper, but this one copy escaped. Some of the most usual of the usual suspects–RW Dixiecrat pols, Religious Right leaders, Nixon alumni–collaborated on one of the boilerplate books about what they were going to do if they took power. They were going to take on “big government, big labor, and big business.”

    Hm, big business.

    They never breathe a WORD about big business post 1980.

    They’re liars.

    Giant, social-dominator-type liars.

    And that was that.

  380. not a gator said,

    December 22, 2012 at 21:53

    Sorry, Puup, that I missed your comments about Shay’s rebellion. I was skimming your flame war with teh ignoramus upthread, who hopefully is ignorant no more.

    Also, too, I hadn’t seen mention on other blogs I checked yesterday. I felt like answering that stupid argument was legitimizing it. No. The founders NEVER entertained that notion. Never.

    I mean, we’re talking about a coterie of petty bourgeois and slave plantation owners. Not the sorts to champion anarchy.

  381. not a gator said,

    December 22, 2012 at 21:57

    Did Bork ever figure out what the first letters of “alt.sex.stories” spells? Did he call Glenn Beck?

    Some of my best hours in college were spent on the nifty archive. I didn’t mind the sex ad pop-ups because everywhere on the internet had those (except for .gov and .edu’s, which were subsidized, after all) back then. Searching for “lesbian fiction”, a search that would retrieve strident tomes of a political nature in any library, brought up the latest and greatest in credit-card number soliciting free enterprise back in 1997….

  382. Fenwick said,

    December 22, 2012 at 22:01

    Cameo Smith may be a creepy, cliche-riddled, simplistic, Xian ‘poet’ …. but the(*) first name is pretty nifty.

    (*) gender-neutral; I can easily imagine ‘Cameo’ as female. (Bond girl with a charming backstory about why she was so named?) Anyway, ‘Cameo’ is certainly a distinctive name.

  383. John D. said,

    December 22, 2012 at 22:05

    “They never breathe a WORD about big business post 1980.”

    Huh. You know, this is quite true. There used to be a fairly sizable mistrust of corporations and “Big Biz” on the right, especially among the John Bircher types who basically run the GOP these days…but that hasn’t been the case for decades now.

    Was that strain of thinking squeezed out, or were they all just liars and bullshitters to start with?

  384. mat said,

    December 22, 2012 at 22:09

    From the magnificent film Network (1976):

    You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won’t have it! Is that clear?! Do you think you’ve merely stopped a business deal? That is not the case. The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multi-variate, multi-national dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and sub-atomic and galactic structure of things today! And you have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and You Will Atone!

    Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale? You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state – Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do. We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable by-laws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that perfect world in which there’s no war or famine, oppression or brutality. One vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock, all necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused.

    The bottom line 36 years later: Go along and shut the fuck up.

    To quote Omar Little from The Wire: Oh, indeed.

  385. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 22, 2012 at 22:12

    Did Bork ever figure out what the first letters of “alt.sex.stories” spells?

    I spent a bit of time on usenet* back inna day, so that kinda cracked me up large.

    *alt.support, rec.sports/music, sci.whatever. I wonder what he would think those meant.

  386. wiley said,

    December 22, 2012 at 22:16

    i think protecting our kids includes not scaring the living fuck out of them by having armed guards in every public venue…

    Rude Pundit posted a thoughtful and moving letter from a school teacher. It really puts it all into perspective. We don’t need more men with guns, or women with guns, or guns around children, we need safety.

  387. Pere Ubu said,

    December 22, 2012 at 22:21

    Wait, we’re going to lock up all the Asperger’s people now?

    Fuck. I IS an Aspire.

    Anything to keep guns out there, I suppose, just like I’m going to get hosed on food stamps so the 1% doesn’t have to cough up a few dollars more.

    BTW, Verb, you rock.

  388. Pere Ubu said,

    December 22, 2012 at 22:26

    That’s “Cerb”, I mean.

    See? Aspire.

  389. Fenwick said,

    December 22, 2012 at 22:44

    I’m never gonna ketchup the thread.

    I’m a slow reader. I don’t skim; I read carefully. I follow links and often read the articles at the other end.

    Also, today is Saturday, so Sadlies have more time for engaging in conversation.

    Gonna take a break and watch some Netflix. When I return, I may commit an un-Fenwick act: Perhaps I shall skim the thread.

    Now, however, gonna re-run Barry Levinson’s comedy Bandits with Bruce Willis … Billy Bob Thornton … and Cate Blanchett. I’m mostly much in love with her, btw; for me, she is always HUGE attraction to any film. Spear: Blanchett plays the role as a red-head, long, down onto her shoulders. I’m prolly gonna make a third pass using Scene Selections, and slo-mo just watch her. If you haven’t seen it film, Spear, I rate Bandits MUST-SEE for red-head afficianados.

    Also, Levinson is one of my favorite living film directors. Plus, also, and moreover Barry Levinson is a Baltimore guy, doncha know? He named his production company Baltimore Productions. Also I muchly like Ridley Scott, Terry Gilliam, Ron Howard, John Frankenheimer, Martin Scorcese.

    So goodbye for a whiles…

  390. Fenwick said,

    December 22, 2012 at 22:48

    mat: Always loved this speech; among Chayefsky’s best film writing. And delivered with such force by a young Ned Beatty. Thanx for putting this up!

    (Okay, now I’ll go…)

  391. Major Kong said,

    December 22, 2012 at 22:49

    for most people, there is simply no good reason to have body armor.

    Oh I don’t know. With all the idiots running around with concealed carry permits these days I’m tempted to buy some body armor.

  392. mat said,

    December 22, 2012 at 22:57

    Shoot me for saying this, ‘cos Mel Gibson is such poison now, but Get the Gringo was a hoot. It’s vulgarly violent, of course, but Mel’s interplay with the Mexican kid in prison is priceless.

  393. Major Kong said,

    December 22, 2012 at 23:50

    I sometimes like Mel Gibson as an actor, if not as a human being, but he’s spent most of his career making the same revenge-fantasy over and over.

  394. wiley said,

    December 23, 2012 at 0:14

    Fenwick, Kate Blanchett plays a woman with two “husbands”. So rare, so sweet. The only other movie that does that, off the top of my head, is Paint Your Wagon.

  395. Suezboo said,

    December 23, 2012 at 0:43

    Until you’ve heard Clint Eastwood sing “I talk to the trees”, can you really be said to have lived?

  396. tigris said,

    December 23, 2012 at 1:32

    wiley, if you haven’t seen it you might like “Design for Living.” Not a woman with 2 husbands, but with two lovers who are also best friends.

  397. jeanne moreau said,

    December 23, 2012 at 2:11

    Jules et Jim. 3 “husbands”!

  398. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 23, 2012 at 2:29

    Too much swordfighting.
    .

  399. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 23, 2012 at 3:01

    I’ll stand on my head and yodel if I have to.
    .

  400. Major Kong said,

    December 23, 2012 at 3:14

    I’ll stand on my head and yodel if I have to.

    That cats might look at you funny.

  401. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 23, 2012 at 3:23

    That cats might look at you funny.

    I think “Them-there” was what you were seeking. :)
    .

  402. bbkf said,

    December 23, 2012 at 3:24

    well, hell’s bells peeps…this having a nighttime job really is curtailing my particpation in exciting hottub parties, innit?

    just popping by to say i adore my dog luci who purchased and gift wrapped a roku box as one of my christmas gifts…she also convinced hubbkf that he should have me open it yesterday morning so as to use it this weekend…do i even need to mention that i am completely addicted already to on-line television?!?

    i am also in the midst of much holiday food preparations (tonight’s theme is balls: truffles and meatballs…but not together) and since i have a bunch of pimentos in my fridge, i am going to make pimento cheese…never have i ever…i kagoogled a recipe at southern living, but would be interested in hearing from gourmand and/or southern sadlies who may have THE best recipe…

    oh, holy shit…hubbkf has activated our amazon prime membership…if you don’t hear from me for a while s’okay…i’m just od’ng on movies or trying to catch up on teh thread…

  403. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 23, 2012 at 3:52

    You don’t know alone for the holidays until you know cyberalone for the holidays.
    .

  404. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    December 23, 2012 at 4:03

    Shopping local rocks but I gave had way more than enough exposure to people for the day. People! They’re everywhere!

  405. Major Kong said,

    December 23, 2012 at 4:07

    My stepdaughters are coming over tomorrow so I wanted to make something special.

    I made a Bûche de Noël (yule log) cake. It’s a traditional French Christmas dessert.

  406. Suezboo said,

    December 23, 2012 at 4:41

    Sounds deevine, Major.
    Jeffraham, it’s nearly 5 am, may I please be excused now?
    I’m also alone this holiday – well, all the time really – so we can keep each other company when everyone else is having RL encounters of the third and fourth kind.

  407. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 23, 2012 at 4:46

    Jeffraham, it’s nearly 5 am, may I please be excused now?

    Of course!
    .

  408. kg said,

    December 23, 2012 at 5:05

    MK, I liked making the log cake when I was in hs. We got extra credit for bringing one in at xmas so I’ve made exactly 4 of them. They did improve each time, tho. Fun times.

  409. bbkf said,

    December 23, 2012 at 5:14

    I have Autism, OCD, and Depression. Apparently I belong on a national registry, but an automatic assault rifle doesn’t.

    well, half of my family would belong on that list as well…wlp and the nra and charlotte allen and all those fuckers literally make me sick to my stomach…i know obs is a bit overloaded people-wise, but it has been genuinely joyful to live in this small little town these past few days…yesterday i did some shopping and had some truly amazing conversations with friends, donors, business owners…this morning hubbkf and i had a blast finishing up shopping for the kids locally…lots of times i want to run far, far away from where i live for various reasons…but this past week, these people, the familiarity, the connections…all have kept me sane…

    for you sadlies who are spending the holidays alone, if it were possible, i would insist you spend the time with us here…my heart is full of warmth and joy right now and i kinda want to spread it around…

  410. bbkf said,

    December 23, 2012 at 5:15

    and no, i am not drunk…the holiday season always makes me sappy…

  411. jim the heretical anti-cliff lemming said,

    December 23, 2012 at 5:30

    You don’t know alone for the holidays until you know cyberalone for the holidays.

    This’ll be my first Xmas in the last six years that isn’t a work day.
    WHEEEEEEEEEEE!

  412. kg said,

    December 23, 2012 at 5:30

    I arbor delusions of sappiness as well.

  413. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 23, 2012 at 5:48

    Love a buche de Noel. Gotta do the “branch” sticking off and the marzipan “mushrooms.” I have made a couple or ten in years past but this year I just can’t be arsed.

    Tonight I’m making a chicken ballotine, with spinach and mushroom stuffing. tomorrow is Teh Ho’s B’day. Gaaaaad, the hoops we have to jump through to appease/ameliorate/atone for …. because his childhood was RUINED by not getting an extra special birthday celebration and GASP sometimes having the two thingies combined! You have any idea how hard it is to find non-Xmassy gift wrap in mid December? Years past I made fried chicken / slaw / cornbread, or BBQ ribs or some such shit that was VERY NON XMASSY. For the past several years he’s been (more than) satisfied to have osso buco with my patented gremolata (kinky secret imgredient: grated horseradish), I laid out a big chunk of money today for some (organic yada shit) veal shanks (hind leg which is fucking hard to locate). While I was at it, I picked up a three large end rib, grass fed, dry aged, USDA prime standing rib roast and let me tell you, THAT was some big $$$ laid out, for Xmas dinner.

    Happy apocalypse everyone!

  414. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 23, 2012 at 5:52

    I wish I was all happy, or sappy.I finally went out and got a monitor for this desktop I had reworked to do photoshooping of old prints. Hooked it up yesterday. Tweaked the display, and started looking through the manuals I had downloaded a while ago to get familiar with the software. After a few minutes it dawned on me that I was reading about CS5, looking at the menu I realized CS4 was loaded.
    Shit.
    No big deal. Amazon happened to have CS4 manuals way cheap. Like $2 – 50 cent cheap. Cool. Ordered three. Kick back, start listening to the Lions game, (always good for a laugh) Stoopidfone starts f@(kin’ up again. Gaahh. Patience boy, patience. OK,…all is good,…and then I look up and the nice big shiny monitor is showing the “Blue Screen of Death”.
    …with lotsa words and numbers.
    GAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!
    Depower. Disconnect everything but the monitor, wait a bit,…power up. HEY! A start screen! Cool.
    Thirty seconds later, the monitor goes into “power saving” mode.
    WTF?
    Tower commences terminal type Beeeeping.
    Fuck.
    I’m toast,…and the guy that worked on it is 450 miles away.
    I hate gizmos.
    I’m going to become a Luddite.

  415. bbkf said,

    December 23, 2012 at 5:57

    hubbkf kept mumbling about getting a loan whilst we were in the grocery store…have not purchased groceries for a long while, so combined with extra xmas food…eck…

    my baby brothers had the xmas birthdays as well…the elder of the two was born on the 26th and the younger (now deceased) was the 23rd…a year apart…two not optimal xmases in a row for me mam…not only did they get gypped present wise, but they usually had to celebrate together with two small matching cakes…it’s since the younger brother died in ’93 when he was only 23, xmases have always been bittersweet for the family…still is for the remaining brother…people always thought they were twins and they were pretty close…i really feel bad for the remainder brother…long-time girlfriend left him, he had all his teeth pulled and is still awaiting dentures, work’s been slow…

    okay, i am now apparently gearing up for my annual holiday crying session…

    gah…

  416. Jeffraham, Warm Cave (Now w/Ubuntu!) said,

    December 23, 2012 at 5:57

    Tower commences terminal type Beeeeping.
    Fuck.

    Anything pressing on the keyboard?
    .

  417. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 23, 2012 at 6:08

    Anything pressing on the keyboard?

    Wasn’t even hooked up.
    It did it initially when I tried to repower the first time before disconnecting, so I pulled everything but the monitor figuring I could plug ‘em in one by one to determine the conflict.
    The blue screen said something about “new hardware may” be the problem.
    If the monitor is the problem I’m fucked.

  418. bughunter said,

    December 23, 2012 at 8:14

    Well, ladies and germs, Imma gonna be spending the next seven days under a palapa with a book in one hand and a tropical drink in the other (except for an occasional whale watching cruise) and not an electronic device in sight except perhaps a credit card POS terminal…

    So I will leave the snark and the puns and the defense of sanity (and the embrace of playful insanity) to you fine folk. I’m not even going to pretend to try to catch up when I return. I trust you will manage it as well as you always do.

    Happy Christmas and all that to every one of you, even the lurkers.

  419. Another Kiwi said,

    December 23, 2012 at 9:30

    I am getting to loathe Christmas.

  420. not a gator said,

    December 23, 2012 at 10:13

    Pup, how do you devote so much time, money, energy and love to cookery after all these years? I mean, you have a job, too, right? You’re not just living off the interest from your big day trading score in 1998? Because if so I hate you.

  421. Jeffraham, Warm Cave (Now w/Ubuntu!) said,

    December 23, 2012 at 13:17

    Wasn’t even hooked up.

    IIRC, that can cause the beeping, too.
    .

  422. Jeffraham, Warm Cave (Now w/Ubuntu!) said,

    December 23, 2012 at 13:28

    Mayor — plug in the keyboard, and restart. If the POST beeps happen. here’s a starting place for diagnosing the issue.
    .

  423. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 23, 2012 at 16:15

    Thanks Jeffraham.
    It’s one long, repeating. I just likely have a different BIOS er sumpin.
    My guess for the root problem at this point is a loose card or short.
    Considering how much this thing has been moved around since “The Roadie” went through it, (many new components) that would really be no surprise.
    I used to be real confident with this shit back inna day. even built a few from scatch. Now, though, I have no desire, and my memory (heh,heh) is shot. Nevermind that the requisite gear is locked away in a snowbound garage 25 miles away.
    I’ll live.
    Now to concentrate on the coconut creme pie I promised myself I’d get made for my cousin.
    …and the Packers are on at 1.
    Priorities, Y’know.

  424. Jeffraham, Warm Cave (Now w/Ubuntu!) said,

    December 23, 2012 at 17:21

    My guess for the root problem at this point is a loose card or short.

    Re-seating cards and RAM modules can’t hurt a bit. Of course, my point was that most BIOSes try to holler at ya if you have zero input devices connected. I’d leave at least the keyboard plugged up, if not the mouse as well. Other peripherals you could add back one at a time, though.
    .

  425. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 23, 2012 at 17:29

    Yeah, I tried that before typing. No change.

  426. Jeffraham, Warm Cave (Now w/Ubuntu!) said,

    December 23, 2012 at 17:33

    Definitely gonna have to pop the hood, then. :)
    .

  427. Jeffraham, Warm Cave (Now w/Ubuntu!) said,

    December 23, 2012 at 17:46

    Of all the least-likely thangs, I accurately diagnosed a problem with the plant’s SCADA PC last week. It was having networking issues. Keep in mind, this PC and the router both belong to the city, and only the city IT guy has any admin rights to either.

    I asked the boss to reboot it, and then I went into some net diagnostics from the command line. Pulled up Device Manager, disabled and re-enabled the network card (which it wouldn’t let me do before the reboot). Poked around a few more minutes, and declared that the network cable was bad, OR the network adapter was fried, and lying to the PC.

    The cable was bad. Feather.
    .

  428. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 23, 2012 at 18:28

    Feather.

    Oooh. Decorated cap iz nice.

  429. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 23, 2012 at 19:28

    Back in the living room. Let’s see if we can get any of these scooter assholes to go on a ride.
    bbl
    .

  430. bbkf said,

    December 23, 2012 at 19:37

    just finished watching ‘let the right one in’…thus far this weekend, i’ve watched ‘the tall man’, ‘hugo’, ‘super eight’, ‘monkey’s mask’, ‘ballykissangel’, ‘lrroi’ and now ‘battle of midway’…we are going back and forth picking things out to watch which is giving us some weird combos…

  431. bbkf said,

    December 23, 2012 at 19:40

    I am getting to loathe Christmas.

    chin up…it’s almost over…

  432. kg said,

    December 23, 2012 at 20:12

    roku overload!
    We’re doing the same, ‘cept there a shitload more Dora the Explorer mixed in.

  433. Major Kong said,

    December 23, 2012 at 20:14

    I am getting to loathe Christmas.

    I hate to say me too. I’ve been running around for the last week trying to get stuff done. I’d like to be able to just relax and enjoy my days off before I go back out on the road.

  434. bbkf said,

    December 23, 2012 at 20:18

    We’re doing the same, ‘cept there a shitload more Dora the Explorer mixed in.

    once the daughter gets home, i suspect there will be a lot more kid stuff in the mix…although hubbkf and i did watch a bit of ‘santa claus and the three bears’ yesterday…

  435. Fenwick said,

    December 23, 2012 at 20:31

    after the last ten years, I’m starting to feel I wouldn’t really care as long as the US and the weapons are kept inside your borders. We could put up a fence around you, so you’d be safe from all of us, right? — nipsen

    Well played.

    I don’t recall seeing you in Sadlytown before. Glad you joined in the conversation. Jump on in the water’s fine.

  436. bbkf said,

    December 23, 2012 at 20:33

    gah…just started looking at the hooterville indigestion…not sure i wanna know what wingnutinsane publisher has to say about newtown and gun control…

  437. Fenwick said,

    December 23, 2012 at 20:37

    Lord, I’m still trying to ketchup the comments on 21 Dec. Two fucking days ago. Maybe I’ll have take up skimming….

  438. kg said,

    December 23, 2012 at 20:40

    We’re not content keeping the guns in USA though, nipsen. We will happily arm conflicts across the world (4 freedom, ‘natch)

  439. Fenwick said,

    December 23, 2012 at 21:02

    I’m told there are sunflower shoots in it.

    Ask them to do pea shoots.

    Not even Sadlyville is immune from shooting.

  440. Fenwick said,

    December 23, 2012 at 21:06

    sunflowers are terrible marksmen.

    Whale’s joke is better.

  441. Lighten Up said,

    December 23, 2012 at 21:44

    I’m usually a fan of most people here, but I’m sorry.

    DKW and Pup are touchy, hot-tempered, argumentative, and hyperbolic. They have strong opinions on every topic imaginable, and, coincidentrally, are absolute authorities on every topic imaginable. When hot-headed clashes appear at SN, one or both are usually involved.

  442. Smut Clyde said,

    December 23, 2012 at 21:52

    Shopping local rocks
    Don’t waste money on those expensive imported rocks.

    I am getting to loathe Christmas.
    Think of it as an excuse to watch those classic heart-warming movies like Bad Santa and Rare Exports and Saint.

  443. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 23, 2012 at 21:54

    just started looking at the hooterville indigestion

    DON’T DO IT!!!!

  444. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 23, 2012 at 21:57

    and, coincidentrally, are absolute authorities

    I thought you only kept a spreadsheet of Eschaton regulars. Nice branchin’ out, pard.
    .

  445. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 23, 2012 at 22:04

    Foodie quetch-chunn.
    Coconut pie filled and cooling.
    Lemon Merangue yet to go fer Meeseff.
    Recipient of coconut requested merangue on hers, but in doing so, will have three egg yolks left over.
    What to do wittum?
    Not cooking dinner tonight, nor breakfast tomorrow.

  446. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 23, 2012 at 22:08

    Oh,…and GO PACK GO!

  447. tigris said,

    December 23, 2012 at 22:08

    Don’t waste money on those expensive imported rocks.

    It’s just compressed carbon! It’s the 4th most common element in the universe, can you say “rip-off?”

  448. bbkf said,

    December 23, 2012 at 22:21

    sorry, mayor…i still have an unanswered food query going…so, nothing on your yolks until somebody gives me the definitive pimento cheese recipe!!!

    also, too…i bet you could freeze them for later use…like when you want to make scrambleds or omelets and feel like an extra dose of cholesterol…or as a wash on certain breads…

    DON’T DO IT!!!!

    so far, i have stayed strong…but have a feeling i will weaken…and when i do, y’all are going to be the recipients of some high quality locally grown wingnut…

  449. tigris said,

    December 23, 2012 at 22:35

    The Google tells me you should add salt or sugar before freezing yolks: http://www.incredibleegg.org/egg-facts/eggcyclopedia/f/freezing-eggs

    When I make pimento cheese, I grate super sharp cheddar, shake on a leetle cayenne, add a bit of chopped roasted red pepper, then add just enough mayo to get it to the texture I like. My mom adds a little pickle juice, but she uses mild cheese because she is nuts.

  450. tigris said,

    December 23, 2012 at 22:38

    Oh, if you’ve got extra lemons too you could make lemon curd. I don’t have a good recipe because I don’t like it but google returns bunches.

  451. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 23, 2012 at 23:35

    Most excellent.
    Thanks.
    Personally I’d eat turds if they had lemon flavor.
    …or if they were wrapped in bacon, but that’s just me.

  452. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 23, 2012 at 23:41

    I dunno about you, but I’m getting sick of all these Sundays going by without my waking up a multimillionaire.
    .

  453. wiley said,

    December 24, 2012 at 0:27

    Off topic: Here’s a 21st century story of white male privilege and it’s excess. Because Schroeder (my laptop) and Ubuntu have come down with some kind of bug, I have to go back to get the address and post the address with the article that contained the following:

    Firstly – for anyone unfamiliar with the story – earlier this week a Syrian lesbian blogger, “Amina Abdullah Araf” was unmasked as Tom McMaster, a straight white male living in Edinburgh. On getting caught out, McMasters issued a few half-hearted explanations, excuses and justifications, while making a genuine apology for his deceit to “Amina’s” mentor and fellow blogger “Paula Brooks”, who then also turned out you be – yes, you guessed it – a straight white Western male named Bill Graber.

    The fraud was only discovered because interest in “Amina” was piqued after “her cousin” blogged about “her” abduction by three armed men, following a period where “she” had been forced underground by state interest in “her”, all the while encouraging “her” fellow women and LGBT activists to maintain their activity. After “her” abduction, Syrian LGBT and womens rights activists put their own lives in danger trying to find out where “Amina” was, who had taken “her” and whether “she” was safe. Pissed off is quite an understatement for the feelings of these brave souls that risked their own safety to try to protect a straight white Western male’s fictional creation, thinking that she was real and in danger.

    Anyone hungry for some in depth articles on feminist issues and activism will probably enjoy this website. I’ll consider it a Christmas present for myself that I can read in my flannel pajama present.

    Second Council House of Virgo

  454. wiley said,

    December 24, 2012 at 0:28

    http://www.2ndcouncilhouse.co.uk/blog/2011/06/17/on-listening-to-the-straight-white-males/

  455. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 24, 2012 at 0:32

    HeeheeheeheeheehahahahahahaHawHawHAW-HAW-HAW-HAW
    BWAAAAHAHAHAHA…AAAHHH-HAHAHAHA (snort,…cough)
    Heeheeheehee,…ah-hmph. heh,…heh
    huh-huh.
    I (giggle) don’t have to worry (heh,heh) about the egg yolks.
    Heeheeheehee
    As I was filling the lemon pie (heeheehee) the glass (hmph)
    FELL OFF THE OVEN DOOR!!!
    BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA (gurgle, snert, pphhh)
    aahummphhh

    Nothing’s gonna be open for days.
    Heh,heh,heh
    It’s as if every damn machine within my reach realizes I’m nowhere near my tool chest.

    Happy Holidays Y’all

  456. wiley said,

    December 24, 2012 at 0:32

    bbfk (you’re probably deep in X-mas now, but), what did you think about The Tall Men?

  457. El Manquécito said,

    December 24, 2012 at 0:39

    Because of catering gigs in the South I’ve had to do some research on pimento cheese. As tig sez, the key is the best aged cheddar you can find. I also believe in subliminal amounts of garlic (1/2 clove per lb of cheese). If I know that it will be entirely consumed when served I’ll add secret ingredients like a small filet of anchovy or a large raw oyster. Grocery store mayo works better than home-made for some reason and in the South it has to be Duke’s. While I don’t dispute that her mom is crazy pickle juice is a good idea.

  458. El Manquécito said,

    December 24, 2012 at 0:41

    Aaaaand, because you’re using very little, like 1/4 tsp per pound of cheese, this is a good time to use your best Spanish paprika.

  459. Pupienus said,

    December 24, 2012 at 0:47

    Liptauer. Another old classis deserving revival.

  460. El Manquécito said,

    December 24, 2012 at 0:49

    Mayor, duct taping aluminum foil faced plywood to your oven door will take care of your problem; you never look through that glass anyway.

  461. El Manquécito said,

    December 24, 2012 at 0:52

    I like liptauer and tried it at a few gigs. It was never enthusiastically received but that might be a regional thing.

  462. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 24, 2012 at 1:38

    DKW and Pup are touchy, hot-tempered, argumentative, and hyperbolic. They have strong opinions on every topic imaginable, and, coincidentrally, are absolute authorities on every topic imaginable

    Oh come on! I’m not an expert on every topic, just the vast majority of them.

  463. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 24, 2012 at 1:44

    Add a wee bit of smoked Spanish paprika to that pimento cheese spread. In the summer I adore a sandwich of pimento cheese spread and sliced cucumbers on ficelle or baguette. Then I eat the sandwich.

  464. El Manquécito said,

    December 24, 2012 at 1:56

    Add a wee bit of smoked Spanish paprika

    Not gonna bother to ahem because: touchy and hot-tempered.

  465. Major Kong said,

    December 24, 2012 at 2:00

    Mrs. Kong (center) with her daughters, plus one very pissed off cat reindeer.

    I know I’m going to pay for this

  466. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 24, 2012 at 2:00

    you never look through that glass anyway.

    I’m good. The glass isn’t broken. It’s one’a them deals where they try to make it look fancy by covering the entire door with black tempered glass instead of sheet metal. Whoever lived here before repaired it when a screw fell out of the bottom retainer by using vinyl electric tape. (facepalm) They bent most of the retainer clips in the process.
    I’ll pop it up with “The Handyman’s Secret Weapon” till after the holidays when I can do it right. It was just the timing that left me stunned. I wish I could have seen my face when it happened, though.
    I’ll bet it was priceless.

  467. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 24, 2012 at 2:04

    Today’s episode of Rate Every Eggs Benedict in Portland took me to Zells. Now, I make a distinction in my ratings between “standard” bennys and “special” bennys. Last outing at Veritable Quandary, with the house made muffin and house smoked pork was a “special.”. Today was mostly standard, though there was a nicely larger than usual portion of ham and I think they eschew the toaster for the grill in doing the muffins. It was among the best standard Es B I’ve had. the muffin was well “toasted,” nicely crunchy. The eggs were perfectly poached. The hollandaise was as good as it gets. The home fries were good, nothing to write home about. If and when I get to where I’m revisiting restaurants, I’ll have no hesitation to return there.

    I’m now putting the veal shanks in the oven for Teh Ho’s birthday dinner. Made salads with mesclun, roasted beets, candied pecans, supremes of blood orange (now in season yay!), Rogue River Blue crumbles, thinly sliced red onion. Sherry wine vinegar vinaigrette. Then the osso buco with saffron rice. Had some cherries from the marmers farket tucked away in the freezer. Worked up some puff pastry – that store bought crap is crap, puff pastry made without using butter for god sake??!?!? – to make …. Strudel … turnover type … things.

    Also, Bill Murray was actually pretty good as FDR. I was surprised.

  468. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 24, 2012 at 2:07

    Not gonna bother to ahem because: touchy and hot-tempered.

    I do not see the word “smoked” in your original comment. I was suggesting adding a wee bit of -smoked Spanish paprika _in addition to_ some excellent Spanish (or Hungarian, I wasn’t picky about that part ) paprika.

    ptphtphphtphptphtht!

  469. Major Kong said,

    December 24, 2012 at 2:09

    The cat’s in a better mood here.

    Siberian Snow Cat

  470. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 24, 2012 at 2:10

    I know I’m going to pay for this

    Proud you should be.
    Right handsome peoples.

  471. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 24, 2012 at 2:11

    Cat’s no slouch either.

  472. wiley said,

    December 24, 2012 at 2:23

    Camera shy? Mrs. Kong shouldn’t be hiding behind the cat, she’s lovely.

  473. Major Kong said,

    December 24, 2012 at 2:28

    She was trying to keep the cat still for 10 seconds so I could get a picture with the antlers.

  474. Suezboo said,

    December 24, 2012 at 2:28

    You’re a lucky ol’ pilot, Major.

  475. Major Kong said,

    December 24, 2012 at 2:41

    Indeed I am.

  476. wiley said,

    December 24, 2012 at 2:46

    Ah. The cat doesn’t give a shit about the reindeer antlers or your silly pictures. Typical.

  477. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 24, 2012 at 3:13

    DKW and Pup are touchy, hot-tempered, argumentative, and hyperbolic.

    Dunno about Pup, but this is very similar to how your mom describes me.

  478. bbkf said,

    December 24, 2012 at 4:29

    bbfk (you’re probably deep in X-mas now, but), what did you think about The Tall Men?

    i really, really liked the story line…bog knows i have admitted that i could never be a social worker because i would want to take all the kids home with me…the plotting had me guessing and surprised a couple of times, but i got very annoyed listening to jessica biel breathe heavily…

    all in all i enjoyed it…raised a lot of questions…how about you?

  479. bbkf said,

    December 24, 2012 at 4:36

    Cat’s no slouch either.

    omg…your cat has a heart shaped spot and a toilet plunger on its butt!

    Mrs. Kong shouldn’t be hiding behind the cat, she’s lovely.

    i know! you would think she would know by now that we all think she is hot

    thank y’all for the pimento cheese help…i will even get thyself to the granary tomorrow for some proper paprika…

  480. wiley said,

    December 24, 2012 at 4:48

    It was supposed to end with ambiguity, but I felt that the “saviors” had money and privilege to help with the children and that they considered all the adults to be irredeemable. The cycle that needs to be broken was primarily “poverty” from what I could tell in the film. Would they take the children of comfortable middle class or wealthy parents that abused/neglected their children?

  481. bbkf said,

    December 24, 2012 at 4:59

    your dead on with that, wiley…and no, of course they wouldn’t…unless they were browns or blahs, then maybe…

  482. wiley said,

    December 24, 2012 at 7:25

    A doctor illustrates how the NRA refutes it’s own bullshit argument about how “mental illness is the problem with these shooters”— the NRA lobbies for such things as making it illegal for doctors to ask if there is a gun in the house. So if parents bring in their child because of severe behavioral disturbances and wants the doctor to address that for the safety of the child and family, the doctor wouldn’t be able to ask if there is a gun in the house if the NRA got their way. In Florida the law passed before, but a higher court put it to legal death. Rat bastard NRA.

    http://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2012/12/17/trish-groves-get-the-gun-out-of-the-house/

  483. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    December 24, 2012 at 8:43

    listening to jessica biel breathe heavily…

    IBIMB

    No, really, I’m tired and heading to bed.

    Happy xmas-eve eve everyone.

  484. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 24, 2012 at 11:17

    I am getting to loathe Christmas.

    Are you being pressured to go to the beach, old chum?

  485. N__B said,

    December 24, 2012 at 16:42

    I saw The Hobbit yesterday. I think AK is just annoyed at having to get his oversized feet waxed.

  486. bbkf said,

    December 24, 2012 at 16:57

    I think AK is just annoyed at having to get his oversized feet waxed

    lucky for him he’s not in brazil…

  487. Major Kong said,

    December 24, 2012 at 17:17

    Headed down to southern Ohio to visit the in-laws today.

    “Drive faster! I hear banjo music!”

  488. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    December 24, 2012 at 18:00

    Good luck, Major.

    I’m in D.C., meself.

    Columbus can take care of itself.
    ~

  489. N__B said,

    December 24, 2012 at 18:16

    And…some guy near Rochester NY has shot four firefighters, killing two. NEED MORE GUNZ!

  490. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 24, 2012 at 18:56

    Wayne LaPierre calling for firemen to be armed in 3 … 2 …

  491. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 24, 2012 at 19:14

    May I be the first to wish everyone a happy Dies Natalis Solis Invicti!

  492. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 24, 2012 at 19:59

    That fire was just defending itself. If we don’t allow conflagrations, infernos and the devouring flames of house fires to possess modern sporting rifles with hundred round clips, we will be that much closer to tyranny.

  493. N__B said,

    December 24, 2012 at 20:43

    Rochester is right across the lake from LEAFS SUCK. A coincidence? I think not.

  494. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 24, 2012 at 22:18

    Holy beans.
    .

  495. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 24, 2012 at 22:29

    Silent beans, holy beans.
    .

  496. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 24, 2012 at 22:47

    Teh Ho, to an assault weapons fetishist claiming his penis enhancer was a “sporting” rifle for hunting: If you can’t put a deer down with three shots from a bolt action rifle you’re not a sportsman, you’re an embarrassment. Guy didn’t take it well.

  497. Pere Ubu said,

    December 24, 2012 at 22:56

    Mom & I were kind of worried about the news from NY, considering my sister lives in Webster (where the shooting happened) and we both have friends there, having lived Upstate for about 20 years.

    But as DKW points out, if we don’t have the occasional sacrifice to Xoth’qethictlal, God of Firearms, our crops will die and we will all starve. Or something.

  498. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 24, 2012 at 23:07

    The guy apparently had a manslaughter conviction on his record and still got a gun.

  499. just sayin' said,

    December 24, 2012 at 23:22

    But as DKW points out, if we don’t have the occasional sacrifice to Xoth’qethictlal, God of Firearms, our crops will die and we will all starve. Or something.

    And above all, never utter the words “w-ll regul-t-d mil-tia” — !

    Saying these words make Baby Jesus cry more than a thousand abortions!

    Never, ever say these words— even as a joke.

    You may think you’re being very clever and all, but I assure you, Xoth’qethictlal, God of Firearms, is not mocked

  500. Pere Ubu said,

    December 24, 2012 at 23:31

    Oh, god knows the guy standing in the back of his Ford F-150 with a Glenn Beck bumpersticker and a case of Coors Lite is part of a Well-Regu-yadda-yadda, lordy lordy. And all like that there.

  501. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 24, 2012 at 23:36

    I saw that crap this morning and just couldn’t post it. De Nile an’ allat.
    I have eight friends and family that are firefighters. I’m curious if the conversation will change now. Somehow I doubt it.

  502. Pere Ubu said,

    December 24, 2012 at 23:39

    I’m curious if the conversation will change now. Somehow I doubt it.

    If it hasn’t for 20 little kids, I doubt it will.

  503. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 24, 2012 at 23:44

    Ruining the good name of Spengler too.

  504. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 25, 2012 at 0:08

    Sorry. I meant amongst the Eight and their circles. Most are second amendment types.

  505. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 25, 2012 at 1:22

    Sorry. I meant amongst the Eight and their circles.

    There are twelve models.
    .

  506. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 25, 2012 at 1:36

    Already drunk, whoo!
    .

  507. just sayin' said,

    December 25, 2012 at 1:41

    And to which well-regulated militia did THIS shooter belong?

    You know, it’d be pretty cool if we knew who sold this guy the guns and lock ‘me up for ten or twenty years…

  508. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 25, 2012 at 2:15

    Should mention, if for no other reason than to give suezboo a tweak: going to continue my drunken holiday spree with a gent from Durban, SA. The most wrong-headed, totally in need of a keeper individual I know.
    .

  509. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 25, 2012 at 2:17

    I’ll be lucky to avoid jail tonight, certainly.
    .

  510. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 25, 2012 at 2:17

    Especially since he’d been convicted of killing his own grandmother with a hammer.
    “Kid,…have you rehabilitated yourself?”

  511. The Mayor of Upper Astroboffin said,

    December 25, 2012 at 2:20

    Not SA dude. I gotta stop typing with a beer in my hand.

  512. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    December 25, 2012 at 2:21

    Not SA dude. I gotta stop typing with a beer in my hand.

    ICANN sez .za, sorry.
    .

  513. Major Kong said,

    December 25, 2012 at 2:44

    Made it back. Tough drive – 1/2 mile visibility in fog and mist, deer all over the place plus the yahoos down there in SUVs who think they can go 70 in any and all conditions.

  514. Suezboo said,

    December 25, 2012 at 2:58

    JP, have fun with your SA buddy. You want to amaze him? Say ” Merry Kersfees” (trans. Candle Celebration – no Christians involved).
    Gelukkige Kersfees to all of you dear people, if you celebrate same.

  515. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 25, 2012 at 3:03

    Bird is in brine, room is rearranged to seat 19. Still have one present left to wrap and a cheesecake to bake. It almost feels like we’re prepared this year.

  516. Fenwick said,

    December 25, 2012 at 4:02

    Merry Christmas.
    Happy Hanukkah.
    Happy Holidays.
    Happy Solstice. (*)
    Happy Festivus.

    (*) my ardently atheist brother in Oregon uses this phase; anyhow, best wishes to Sadlyburg atheist community.

    May there be peace on earth and goodwill toward other people.

  517. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 25, 2012 at 4:08

    I already wished everyone a happy Die Natalis Solis Invicti but I dont mind typing it again.

    Teh Ho likes his B’day gift, a Nexus 7 tablet. I played with it some and gee, I’m kind of jealous. I think I like it better than my iPad. I just might sell the iPad and get one for myself.

  518. Major Kong said,

    December 25, 2012 at 4:32

    Gelukkige Kersfees to all of you dear people, if you celebrate same.

    If it’s an excuse to drink I’ll celebrate pretty much anything.

  519. kg said,

    December 25, 2012 at 4:51

    seconded. fuck jesus, I’m in it for the booz.

  520. jim the heretical anti-cliff lemming said,

    December 25, 2012 at 5:37

    Joyeux Noël dans le Sadlynauts!

    Look, I even left a Yule Log under the tree for the wingnuts & trolls to fight over … because Xmas is the season of sharing.

  521. Gary Ruppert said,

    December 25, 2012 at 5:58

    The fact is, Merry CHRISTmas, liberals. I know you hate that.

  522. Helen said,

    December 25, 2012 at 6:00

    lucky for him he’s not in brazil…

    Mega yup; BBKF. Boys will never understand what it’s like to be a girl.

    YAY GRRLLZZ

  523. Helen said,

    December 25, 2012 at 6:22

    Hey Fenwick – my friend -

    FESTIVIS. That’s the answer. Happy Fesitvus. It’s as good as the others.

  524. Drummer Hoff said,

    December 25, 2012 at 6:40

    I think the Allens & McArdles of this world should volunteer and pose as school janitors until the next one; throw their bucket at the knees of the shooter, and show us how its done.

  525. Helen said,

    December 25, 2012 at 6:46

    Hey Drummer – you like me are still focusing on that. Before that my stock answer was “the right won this fight. We lost.” I am mortified by the reaction. It was in our favor for a week. Now those fuckers are goimng back to “But 2nd amendment!!!!!” That’s why I am leaving this country. And I am a wimp.

  526. Substance McGravitas said,

    December 25, 2012 at 7:04

    Merry Christmas, weirdos!

  527. John Revolta said,

    December 25, 2012 at 7:06

    God bless us every one.

    Now, where the wine & the mistletoe at?

  528. VCarlson said,

    December 25, 2012 at 8:06

    God Jul, y’all. I should be sleeping, because I’m getting up at oh-dark-thirty to fo to Jl Otta, a predawn service Dad and I used to go to together. This’ll be my first one without him. I have not been looking forward to this Christmas.

  529. Pupienus, Doctor of Anathematics said,

    December 25, 2012 at 16:18

    fuck jesus,

    Not my type – I prefer clean cut guys. Also good if they actually exist.

  530. Pere Ubu said,

    December 25, 2012 at 16:37

    Mary Kiss Moose, fellow moonbats.

    Although I don’t see what the big tsimmis is about what Mary does on her own free time.

  531. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 25, 2012 at 16:55

    Bring home the troops, the War on Christmas is over for another year.

  532. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 25, 2012 at 16:56

    Or at least bring them to new thread.

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    if only Marky Mark had been there

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  537. Politicalguineapig said,

    January 12, 2013 at 2:24

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  538. Sadly, No! » Wingnuts Take LARPing to Some Weird Places said,

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