Apr
16

We Don’t Call Dan America’s Dumbest Homosexual For Nothing.




Posted at 18:08 by Tintin


ABOVE: B. Daniel Blatt

Shorter B. Daniel Blatt, America’s Dumbest Homosexual:
Has class warfare rhetoric ever won an (American) election?

  • Liberals have to stop mentioning Romney’s money because FDR was rich too!*

*Part of the hilarity of Dan’s post is that he thinks that the answer to his question — Has class warfare rhetoric ever won an (American) election? — is no. Is Dan right? As we are forced to say from time to time here: Sadly, No!


‘Shorter’ concept created by Daniel Davies and perfected by Elton Beard. We are aware of all Internet traditions.™

252 Comments »

  1. N__B said,

    April 16, 2012 at 18:19

    FDR was widely seen as a class traitor by the 1% of his era.

  2. Sophist said,

    April 16, 2012 at 18:20

    Well, since the definition of “class warfare rhetoric” has now expanded to include anything anyone says about rich people that does not involve giving them a sloppy tongue-bath, I’m going to say lots of elections.

  3. Thread Bear said,

    April 16, 2012 at 18:28

    Has class warfare rhetoric ever won an (American) election?

    Who can forget the Springfield High student government election of ’86. When the class of ’85′s seige on the class of ’86 was broken, resulting in a senior sweep of the elections.

  4. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    April 16, 2012 at 18:30

    laughing at that photoshop.

    P.S. Aren’t there two gay patriots?
    ~

  5. DAS said,

    April 16, 2012 at 18:35

    Has class warfare rhetoric ever won an (American) election?

    Sadly, Yes.

    Unfortunately not in the way we liberals would prefer. Consider the Tea Party: they (arguably) won elections for the GOP based on class-warfare rhetoric of “we got ours, so stuff it”. Even his example about Stevenson really is an example of “class warfare”: whenever the GOoPers go on and on about “elitists”, they are attacking those who are not to the manor born but who have succeeded by luck and pluck and talent — i.e. the whole “cultural elitist” b.s. (aside from being anti-Semitic at its core — after all, we all know who else hated cultural elitists) is all about class warfare rhetoric of “you meritocrats don’t belong in DC running the country, we who were born to run the country should run it”.

  6. tigris said,

    April 16, 2012 at 18:36

    laughing at that photoshop.

    HOW DARE YOU INSULT BALLERINAS?!!! Somebody’s just ASKING for a grand battement with a toe shoe.

  7. N__B said,

    April 16, 2012 at 18:37

    Aren’t there two gay patriots?

    There are a lot more than two. Oh wait, you mean Gay Patriots!, not gay patriots.

  8. Pupienus said,

    April 16, 2012 at 18:45

    But … But Ronnie Raygun won based largely on class warfare. What’s that Mr. GayPutzRiot, you never thought about class warfare that way? Well, that’s why you are America’s Dumbest Homosexual™.

  9. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 16, 2012 at 18:49

    Well, if you use the definition of class warfare that Dan Blatt’s using – (i.e. anything that anyone says that he doesn’t agree with) then all elections won by non-Republicans have been won on class warfare rhetoric. Including FDR’s seventy-five consecutive terms as preznit.

    I mean really – FDR? Who cares how rich d00d was – isn’t teh entirety of teh New Deal basically what Dan Blatt would call “class warfare”?

  10. tsam said,

    April 16, 2012 at 18:49

    I welcome Dan’s hatred. Though hate coming from a man in a tutu isn’t very scary.

  11. gocart mozart said,

    April 16, 2012 at 18:49

    Large NYT copy pasta because it’s all good and shut up that’s why.

    “A bit of context. Before Mitt Romney, those seeking the presidency operated under the laws of so-called classical politics, laws still followed by traditional campaigners like Newt Gingrich. Under these Newtonian principles, a candidate’s position on an issue tends to stay at rest until an outside force — the Tea Party, say, or a six-figure credit line at Tiffany — compels him to alter his stance, at a speed commensurate with the size of the force (usually large) and in inverse proportion to the depth of his beliefs (invariably negligible). This alteration, framed as a positive by the candidate, then provokes an equal but opposite reaction among his rivals.

    ¶ But the Romney candidacy represents literally a quantum leap forward. It is governed by rules that are bizarre and appear to go against everyday experience and common sense. To be honest, even people like Mr. Fehrnstrom who are experts in Mitt Romney’s reality, or “Romneality,” seem bewildered by its implications; and any person who tells you he or she truly “understands” Mitt Romney is either lying or a corporation.

    ¶ Nevertheless, close and repeated study of his campaign in real-world situations has yielded a standard model that has proved eerily accurate in predicting Mitt Romney’s behavior in debate after debate, speech after speech, awkward look-at-me-I’m-a-regular-guy moment after awkward look-at-me-I’m-a-regular-guy moment, and every other event in his face-time continuum.

    ¶ The basic concepts behind this model are:

    ¶ Complementarity. In much the same way that light is both a particle and a wave, Mitt Romney is both a moderate and a conservative, depending on the situation (Fig. 1). It is not that he is one or the other; it is not that he is one and then the other. He is both at the same time.

    ¶ Probability. Mitt Romney’s political viewpoints can be expressed only in terms of likelihood, not certainty. While some views are obviously far less likely than others, no view can be thought of as absolutely impossible. Thus, for instance, there is at any given moment a nonzero chance that Mitt Romney supports child slavery.

    ¶ Uncertainty. Frustrating as it may be, the rules of quantum campaigning dictate that no human being can ever simultaneously know both what Mitt Romney’s current position is and where that position will be at some future date. This is known as the “principle uncertainty principle.”

    ¶ Entanglement. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a proton, neutron or Mormon: the act of observing cannot be separated from the outcome of the observation. By asking Mitt Romney how he feels about an issue, you unavoidably affect how he feels about it. More precisely, Mitt Romney will feel every possible way about an issue until the moment he is asked about it, at which point the many feelings decohere into the single answer most likely to please the asker.

    ¶ Noncausality. The Romney campaign often violates, and even reverses, the law of cause and effect. For example, ordinarily the cause of getting the most votes leads to the effect of being considered the most electable candidate. But in the case of Mitt Romney, the cause of being considered the most electable candidate actually produces the effect of getting the most votes.

    ¶ Duality. Many conservatives believe the existence of Mitt Romney allows for the possibility of the spontaneous creation of an “anti-Romney” (Fig. 2) that leaps into existence and annihilates Mitt Romney. (However, the science behind this is somewhat suspect, as it is financed by Rick Santorum, for whom science itself is suspect.)

    ¶ What does all this bode for the general election? By this point it won’t surprise you to learn the answer is, “We don’t know.” Because according to the latest theories, the “Mitt Romney” who seems poised to be the Republican nominee is but one of countless Mitt Romneys, each occupying his own cosmos, each supporting a different platform, each being compared to a different beloved children’s toy but all of them equally real, all of them equally valid and all of them running for president at the same time, in their own alternative Romnealities, somewhere in the vast Romniverse.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/opinion/sunday/a-quantum-theory-of-mitt-romney.html

  12. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 16, 2012 at 18:56

    What’s that Mr. GayPutzRiot, you never thought about class warfare that way?

    Apparently teh über-rich are only acting as rational economic actors and reasonably pursuing their self-interest when they push for dismantling the social safety net or union busting or off-shoring jobs or off-shoring wealth in tax shelters or any of a zillion other things even when motivated specifically by sticking it (heh heh) to teh mythical Cadillac-driving welfare queens. But a non-1%-er asking for improvements to the tragically atrocious way health insurance is handled? CLASS WARFARE!

  13. Marion in Savannah said,

    April 16, 2012 at 18:58

    gocart mozart left off the last line of the NYT piece:

    And all of them losing to Barack Obama.

    I know, picky, picky, picky of me. Can’t help myself. I’m a Capricorn…

  14. tsam said,

    April 16, 2012 at 18:58

    Q: Which elections were won with Class Warfare Rhetoric? (Whatever the fuck that is, but for the sake of discussion, let’s assume that it’s some commie homo trying to tax the rich so that darkies can have more Cadillacs)

    A: ALL OF THEM. More so during economic downturns, but the left-right model of American politics has always centered around conservatives trying to pick whatever is left of the pockets of the poor while the left tries to strike a balance (generally unsuccessfully) between handing the rich everything they want and keeping the poor from literally starving to death.

  15. N__B said,

    April 16, 2012 at 19:05

    I’m a Capricorn…

    You faked a Mars landing with OJ Simpson?

  16. Tom Allen said,

    April 16, 2012 at 19:17

    “And all of them losing to Barack Obama.”

    That would be the Barack Obama who wants to cut corporate tax rates from 35% to 28%? Who let the banking industry off scot-free? Who receives more donations from BP than any other candidate?

    Oh, that Barack Obama.

    http://www.jillstein.org/

  17. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 16, 2012 at 19:19

    Rhett or Rick? Frankly my dear, I’m never going to give you up.

  18. vacuumslayer said,

    April 16, 2012 at 19:24

    Blogwhoring relevancy

  19. Bitter Scribe said,

    April 16, 2012 at 19:27

    Did it ever occur to this guy that FDR won elections and had great political success because he, you know, gave a shit about people less fortunate than himself?

  20. S. cerevisiae said,

    April 16, 2012 at 19:29

    Ooooh, a purity troll!

  21. N__B said,

    April 16, 2012 at 19:31

    Are they the ones that wear those stupid rings?

  22. histrogeek said,

    April 16, 2012 at 19:35

    Yes class warfare never works Rick. Which is why it was desperately important to the governance of the republic that Al Gore and John Kerry just weren’t the kind of guys who people would have a beer with.
    And why didn’t JFK get mentioned?

  23. jim said,

    April 16, 2012 at 19:38

    Do I perchance smell a smarmy little he-bitch in need of a good firm slap?

    Why, yes! I think I do indeed.

    7.
    If “class warfare rhetoric” includes rhetorically accusing one’s opponent of waging class warfare, it’s won plenty of elections for the Republicans.

    See: both Tea Party candidates & right-wing pundits constantly accusing Obama of waging a crypto-Marxist class war in order to energize the then-convalescent GOP prior to the 2010 midterms even while Obama continued to cut taxes & maintain massive subsidies for already-bloated industries like oil & agribusiness.

    Said rhetoric is an old political meme that continues to be used to this day, because it works, regardless of the real context of top-down class warfare (Congressional budget cuts always hit the poor first & hardest, while extreme poverty is now effectively criminalized in America) – everywhere from rap videos to reality TV shows to movies, the glorification of epic fortunes (whether made or inherited) is alive & well, even as the percentage of American children living in poverty steadily rises.

    The propensity of America’s poor “low-information voters” to steadfastly defend the Power Elite, in the apparently sincere belief that they’ll retire rich right after they win the lottery (or are perhaps miraculously catapulted into the nouveau riche by an eccentric rich relative), is a testimonial to the cosmic scale of human naivete.

    Comment by jim — April 16, 2012 @ 1:31 pm – April 16, 2012

    (hugbox & binkie sold seperately)

  24. tsam said,

    April 16, 2012 at 19:41

    GP Commenters’ predicted response to jim’s comment:

    WHATEVER. SHUTUP.

  25. vacuumslayer said,

    April 16, 2012 at 19:46

    Are they the ones that wear those stupid rings?

    Noooo. You’re thinking of purity Hobbits.

  26. vacuumslayer said,

    April 16, 2012 at 19:47

    Did it ever occur to this guy that FDR won elections and had great political success because he, you know, gave a shit about people less fortunate than himself?

    I think this–no shit–really trips up most wingnuts. It’s why they always talk about John Edwards or Al Gore being rich. They can’t conceive of the fact that rich, powerful men might care about things that go on beyond their front doors.

  27. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 16, 2012 at 19:48

    Wheeee! Got out of teh boat. Regrets? Yes.

    Teh entirety of it is:
    1. bashing Dems for being elitistest moar than Repubs
    2. saying that bashing elitstestisms don’t work in electionating.

    Uh, okay. Example:

    None of the losing Republicans of that era, save George H.W. Bush (who lost to Clinton in 1992), had backgrounds significantly more affluent than the Democrats who defeated them.

    Reminder – John Sidney McCain the Third is the son of a four-star admiral who was the son of a four-star admiral. He is married to Rmoney-level net worth (“low end” of nine figures). There’s so much cash just lying around that JiSM can’t remember how many houses he owns. Although in Blatt’s defense, McCain was and is a horrible horrible horrible candidate. Just outright terrible. Worse than a poke in teh eye with a sharp stick. Just bad.

  28. Substance McGravitas said,

    April 16, 2012 at 19:56

    Well, if you use the definition of class warfare that Dan Blatt’s using – (i.e. anything that anyone says that he doesn’t agree with) then all elections won by non-Republicans have been won on class warfare rhetoric

    Yes. I guess a corollary here is that Americans like communism enough to put Democrats in the White House every now and then.

  29. tsam said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:03

    They can’t conceive of the fact that rich, powerful men might care about things that go on beyond their front doors.

    They can concieve of it, they just view it as a weakness. You’ve heard the familiar trope about how rich men didn’t get rich by being generous tippers…

  30. Pupienus Maximus said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:07

    Did it ever occur to this guy that FDR won elections and had great political success because he, you know, gave a shit about people less fortunate than himself?

    No. This would be a good time to type “/SA2SQ” but I won’t …er, that is …

    Look, those people are all about identity. They are the all identity politics, all the time, party. It doesn’t matter to them what someone actually does, only what they are, or are perceived to be. They don’t scratch the surface, they gaze reverently and hypnotically at it.

  31. DAS said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:08

    Oy my intertubez connection went bye-bye just as I had submitted a comment asking about Romney’s Hamiltonian and more. I guess that work of art will never be seen …

  32. tsam said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:14

    Look, those people are all about identity.

    Mostly, yeah. But they also tend to repress the memory of people like Eisenhower and the other Roosevelt because they believed in certain social principles that are known to be the domain of liberals. Regardless of the arguably cynical motives (Eisenhower didn’t like turning away all that cannon fodder because of rickets and illiteracy, so he promoted nutrition programs and education, while building an interstate highway system with national defense being a primary motive), necessity is necessity. It takes a certain strength to not pander to reactionary dumbfucks and have the skills to defend your positions, rather than try to build the desired identity.

  33. Gerald Fnord said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:24

    Re.: jim: April 16, 2012 at 19:38

    To be dead-serious for a moment, I don’t think the low-information poor vote in the wealthy’s best interests generally because they believe that they’re going to hit the lottery any day now, but because they’ve swallowed a belief-system that says that it would be _wrong_ to touch the LORD’s Anointed by acting as if they owed something to the society that largely made their wealth possible (which latter they reject because of their view of the world, it’s a just one in which the worthy are worthy, and the poor below them are shiftless and melanin-overdosed).

    I hold this to be a wrong and silly moral system, but it is a moral system nonetheless…a source of pride to them, and so very hard to wrench away.

  34. 'natch said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:25

    Both sides do it!!!!!

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/norway-massacre-suspect-breiviks-salute-part-of-tradition-that-runs-the-political-gamut/2012/04/16/gIQAP2snLT_story.html

  35. jim said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:25

    WHATEVER. SHUTUP.

    Needs more “… THAT’S WHY!”

  36. Gerald Fnord said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:26

    DAS: I believe a path-integral formulation of Romney would be more in order, though maybe a Dyson series approximation more calculationally tractable.

    (The path-integral formulation would probably be easier if I weren’t so afraid of any action associated with Romney.)

  37. Suezboo said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:27

    Aargh. bbkf, I left a comment for you – no biggie – at the end of the last post before I saw the new one. Rats.

  38. Pupienus Maximus said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:30

    I don’t think the standard model approach to Rmoney can work. No charm anywhere.

  39. tsam said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:33

    From ‘natch’s link:

    Black power. White power. Nazis. Communists.

    Causes across the political spectrum have long used distinctive salutes to identify themselves.

    This should help us understand the motivation for murdering 77 (mostly children) people.

    FTR: Black power salutes didn’t include the nazi-esque extension of the arm, and I don’t remember any communists actually doing any such salute.

    BUT CHECK THIS OUT: Obamacommie!

  40. DAS said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:40

    Path integrals? Dyson series approximations? Can lowly biophysical chemists like me at least understand the Romney Hamiltonian via a product operator formalism or would that be class warfare? Certainly, it would be easier to express the Romney Hamiltonian in a rotating (spinning) reference frame.

  41. bbkf said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:43

    DAS: I believe a path-integral formulation of Romney would be more in order, though maybe a Dyson series approximation more calculationally tractable.

    i do agree that romney sucks much and has incredible manuevering capability…

  42. bbkf said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:48

    So, where are you, trip-wise, bbkf?
    There, nearly-there, home again, on the way home.
    Inquiring minds are concerned.

    i is back…and very, very glad i went…that side of my family is quite interesting to say the least…sean’s eulogy was given by my aunt’s brother whose given name is rocky…and a niece played ‘the carol of the bells’ for him because she wouldn’t get to at christmas time…the elder of the girl cousins showed up looking like she was ready to make some scratch…holy crap, i’ve never seen that much cleavage at a funeral…and i was mistaken for the widow…also, i’ve never been to a service where folks could get up and get coffee or lemonade right in the middle of it…i took note: there will be an open cocktail bar during my service…

  43. histrogeek said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:51

    “FTR: Black power salutes didn’t include the nazi-esque extension of the arm, and I don’t remember any communists actually doing any such salute.”
    Black power salutes sometimes involved holding a fist over your head (like at the 68 Olympics). Communist posters sometimes showed people with fists over their head, but it was never a salute, more a gesture of defiance. In any event real-world commies never used it as a salute. The nearest equivalent would be waving little red books among Maoists, but even that wouldn’t really be a salute.

  44. Mark D (a.k.a. Unholy Moses) said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:54

    Gerald Fnord sez
    I don’t think the low-information poor vote in the wealthy’s best interests generally because they believe that they’re going to hit the lottery any day now, but because they’ve swallowed a belief-system that says that it would be _wrong_ to touch the LORD’s Anointed by acting as if they owed something to the society that largely made their wealth possible (which latter they reject because of their view of the world, it’s a just one in which the worthy are worthy, and the poor below them are shiftless and melanin-overdosed).

    I hold this to be a wrong and silly moral system, but it is a moral system nonetheless…a source of pride to them, and so very hard to wrench away.

    That is one damn fine analysis (very hearty applause) but I think it really does go back to the My Tribe vs. Their Tribe mentality.

    For them, not everyone who is rich is superior. After all, SOROS!

    Instead, only those who are rich and part of the same tribe are superior. They earned their money the way their lawdawmight dictated (uh, somewhere; they’re sure of it!) and are good Christian folks (usually, or so they claim) who only give to just causes (like ALEC).
    Thus, they deserve to be rich and asking them to pay another 3% in marginal tax rates is akin to killing every first-born white child.

    BUT … the SOROS! of the world are all evil elitists who want to tell the rest of us how to live. Oh, sure, folks like him might have actually earned their money, rather than winning the ovarian lottery and/or being a vulture capitalist who destroyed countless lives in the name of profits, but since they support the wrong tribe, they’re to be destroyed, not revered like their true All American Capitalists.

    Or, shorter: Fantastic point, but IMHO the right is still nothing but a bunch of tribalist douche bags.

  45. DAS said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:55

    i do agree that romney sucks much and has incredible manuevering capability… – bbkf

    Do you mean Romney is a low mass black hole (sucks a lot but low mass = low inertia, so can accelerate rapidly)? Oh … Dyson vacuum cleaners … I gotta get out of the lab more often …

  46. Gerald Fnord said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:57

    Excellent idea about the rotating reference frame.

    Maybe there’s some unitary transform that can be used relate all of Romney’s positions to each other, some symmetry…the conservation law derivable via Noether being that of his perceived chances to get elected.

    Don’t feel low about being a biophysicist, it’s not at all ‘lowly’, even in jest. Anyway, these days, I work as an engineer for a telecom, doctorate or not…though there are still some maths I have to get to every now and again.

  47. Anonymous said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:07

    Maybe he should ask Reagan, though in fairness that was as much race wars as class wars.

  48. DrDick said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:08

    Urk! That was me at 21:07.

  49. Gerald Fnord said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:11

    Mark D (a.k.a. Unholy Moses): Very good point. Someone once had a useful litany, all I can remember of it is something like

    We are brave; our enemies are reckless and think life is cheap.
    We are stoic; our enemies don’t feel pain the way we do.
    We are intelligent; our enemies are merely clever.
    We do not waste opportunities; our enemies exploit every advantage.

    …or as the pritcher on an old SubGenius tape put it, ‘Belieiving is seeing.’

    As for Soros…well, for much of the modern conservative movement, anti-Semitism is the Hate that Dare Not Speak Its Name…they have to use words like ‘elitists’ and ‘media’ when they’d be itching to say ‘Jew’—but they have enough surface decency, religious indoctrination, and respect for the truculence and butchness of the Likud that they don’t believe themselves to be anti-Semitic. Still, though, if they knew their own people*’s history they’d know that many anti-Semites have had little problem with religious Jews or Jews far away—I am proud to say that it is people like me who bug them most…it helps me be all the Rootless Cosmopolitan that I can be.

    *by ‘their people’ I meant ‘reactionary anti-Semitic scum’.

  50. Hogeye Grex said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:11

    in a rotating (spinning) reference frame.

    The Founding Fathers’ graves?

  51. The Dark Avenger said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:13

    The physics of the Romney Uncertainly Principle are interesting:

    The basic concepts behind this model are:

    Complementarity. In much the same way that light is both a particle and a wave, Mitt Romney is both a moderate and a conservative, depending on the situation (Fig. 1). It is not that he is one or the other; it is not that he is one and then the other. He is both at the same time.

    Probability. Mitt Romney’s political viewpoints can be expressed only in terms of likelihood, not certainty. While some views are obviously far less likely than others, no view can be thought of as absolutely impossible. Thus, for instance, there is at any given moment a nonzero chance that Mitt Romney supports child slavery.

    Uncertainty. Frustrating as it may be, the rules of quantum campaigning dictate that no human being can ever simultaneously know both what Mitt Romney’s current position is and where that position will be at some future date. This is known as the “principle uncertainty principle.”

    Entanglement. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a proton, neutron or Mormon: the act of observing cannot be separated from the outcome of the observation. By asking Mitt Romney how he feels about an issue, you unavoidably affect how he feels about it. More precisely, Mitt Romney will feel every possible way about an issue until the moment he is asked about it, at which point the many feelings decohere into the single answer most likely to please the asker.

    Noncausality. The Romney campaign often violates, and even reverses, the law of cause and effect. For example, ordinarily the cause of getting the most votes leads to the effect of being considered the most electable candidate. But in the case of Mitt Romney, the cause of being considered the most electable candidate actually produces the effect of getting the most votes.

    Duality. Many conservatives believe the existence of Mitt Romney allows for the possibility of the spontaneous creation of an “anti-Romney” (Fig. 2) that leaps into existence and annihilates Mitt Romney. (However, the science behind this is somewhat suspect, as it is financed by Rick Santorum, for whom science itself is suspect.)

  52. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:18

    Yes, yes… YES!
    .

  53. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:19

    Okay, Dan Blatt has defined his “era” as the last 70 years of the 20th century – I guess specifically to exclude W and JiSM. Which is wev, I guess FDR’s election is somehow moar relevant than the last one.

    Anyways, d00d’s still wrnog. “Who’s less working class?” is totally not definitive in preznitual elections. If we start in 1932:

    FDR trounces incumbent multi-millionaire Herbert Hoover. Then he trounced an oil millionaire and a prominent corporate lawyer. FDR may have been ultra-privileged but saying any of those three represents the underside of class warfare is a stretch. With Dewey isn’t a stretch – that guy was honestly and obviously underclass c.f. FDR. Just like how Truman was clearly underclass c.f. Dewey. Fortunately for Blatt, Dewey Defeats Truman – haha. Anyways, in terms of elitism winning – we’re at 1 for, 1 against, 3 no contest.

    Then we get Ike over Adlai Stevenson twice – and if you go by the individuals at the time of election, Blatt’s right about elites triumphing, but if you go by family status, he’s wrong. A wash, but we’ll count it two for Blatt because he needs teh halp.

    JFK over Nixon is clearly upper upper class over other, but then things fall apart again. LBJ v AuH2O? One of those d00ds is clearly moar trailer park than teh other.

    Then the Nixon batch – Humphrey’s clan is higher on the ladder than Nixon’s, but McGovern’s? That’s a wash.

    Carter and Ford? I guess Carter is less working class – but that’s a tight call. Reagan over Carter and Mondale? I guess Blatt’s going to handwave away his worship of Regan’s “grewed up above teh store” worknig class roots – it’s movie star Reagan over peanut farmer. So three more in his Blatt’s column. Four since the first of teh skull and bones Bushes wins next.

    Then Bubba Clinton is two against.

    So what’s the final tally? I haven’t been counting. Most of the time, there’s very little discernable class difference between the candidates. When there is a significant gap – teh moar wealthy and moar upper class somewhat slightly bettar or maybe slightly worse. Practically a non-factor.

    So to answer his question about preznitual winrars that weren’t longtime political elites – 1932 to 1996 only:
    Truman, LBJ (when compared to Barry Goldwater), Nixon, (Oxford comma enhaces elitism) and teh Clenis.

  54. Pupienus Maximus said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:20

    the conservation law derivable via Noether

    But that’s MOOSLIM MATH! It would have a nice symmetry though, a woman waging war on Rmoney.

  55. smedley said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:27

    “So what’s the final tally? I haven’t been counting…”

    Just like a silly lib, playing a game without keeping score………….

  56. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:29

    re: Fun Mitt Physics

    Teh Rmoney Exclusion Principle – Willard can not have the same position on any issue that he has previously had before.

  57. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:31

    Conservation of Angular Momentum states that no matter how much Mitt’s position changes, that regardless of what transformations he tries on – there will always be spin.

  58. bbkf said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:35

    Yes, yes… YES!

    wow…working at a water plant is apparently pretty orgasmic…

  59. bbkf said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:37

    DAS said,

    April 16, 2012 at 20:55

    u funny…actually i DID mean the former…
    .
    .
    .
    JKLOL!!!

  60. Bitter Scribe said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:37

    Sometimes the devious-shi(f)t strategy is a winner. Case in point: Nixon, who ran on his “secret plan” to get out of Vietnam. He got away with it because of Humphrey’s baggage (read: spinelessness vis-a-vis LBJ).

    Romney is basically a richer, more secure version of Nixon. Obama has plenty of baggage, being an incumbent in a bad economy, but is it enough to drag him down?

  61. Christopher said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:38

    Well, the real problem here is that he didn’t limit things to presidential elections.

    You don’t really have to treat this as a trick question; the history of socialism in America shows that class warfare rhetoric, in the way Blatt means it, has won numerous elections, even at the national level.

    Also, the question of whether he was rich or not has nothing to do with whether FDR could effectively use class warfare rhetoric to win an election. You can use false or misleading rhetoric to win elections. Some cynics might argue that that’s how most elections are won.

    Me, I don’t give a crap about Romney’s background. You can be a clueless rich imbecile and still be a nice guy, and you can be a shrewd, hard-working poor person and also a scumbag. Obama’s a constitutional scholar, and he sure as fuck hasn’t been respecting the constitution.

  62. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:43

    OT – teh Eschaton Wanker of teh Decade is pretty much decided. Of teh last four I called Joke Line and Ferd and of course, teh winrar to be announced tomorrow. So yays for me! I don’t think I’d have guessed Sully, probably would have gone with Bill Keller instead.

  63. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:52

    I had Hiatt as numero uno, so I was close.

    Actually, Artois is wrong.

    It shoulda be 2) Mustache of Understanding, 1) Hiatt.
    ~

  64. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 16, 2012 at 21:56

    I agree – moar wanktatic than Ferd? Unpossible. But it’s teh Eschaton list, so Lil Tommy has “a sentimental favourite” advantage over Hiatt.

    Sully was teh surprise for me – although in retrospect, d00d is Wanktastically Wankeriffic. Wanker Extraordinaire that Andrew Sullivan is.

  65. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 16, 2012 at 22:02

    JiSM would have been a good pick too, what with his permanent seat on all of teh Sunday shows. Plus he’s teh one what unleashed teh Grifter Quitter from Alasker, youbetcha. Surely worth a special bonus award or something.

  66. Quaker in a Basement said,

    April 16, 2012 at 22:05

    I’m surprised I haven’t read more about Dan’s amazing recovery. I mean, he had to have been in a coma for all of 2004, right?

  67. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    April 16, 2012 at 22:05

    Obama has plenty of baggage, being an incumbent in a bad economy, but is it enough to drag him down?

    Funny, Bitter Scribe, that’d you mention “secret plans”.

    Here’s Arthur Silber in May of 2008.

    The Wall Street plan for the Obama-bubble presidency is that of the cleanup crew for the housing bubble: sweep all the corruption and losses, would-be indictments, perp walks and prosecutions under the rug and get on with an unprecedented taxpayer bailout of Wall Street.

    Anyone here willing to argue that thisisn’t exactly what happened?
    ~

  68. Bitter Scribe said,

    April 16, 2012 at 22:11

    Aaand the purity trolls come out to play.

  69. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    April 16, 2012 at 22:16

    Which means you can’t possible do anything more than shake your pom-poms.
    ~

  70. Anonymous said,

    April 16, 2012 at 22:21

    Thank God someone understands the true root of evil America is, and always has been, Barack H. Barrybamba.

    (I mean, someone other than the entire Republican party.)

  71. Another Kiwi said,

    April 16, 2012 at 22:23

    Friedman should be Numero uno just for the”throw them against the wall” wank.

  72. Bitter Scribe said,

    April 16, 2012 at 22:26

    OK, Thunder, did it ever occur to you that the Wall St. bailout, as disgusting as some aspects of it may have been to you (and me), was ultimately the right thing to do? That the alternative was an unprecedented financial collapse that would have meant savings and 401(k)s going up like flash paper?

  73. Another Kiwi said,

    April 16, 2012 at 22:33

    Ooops, so many wanks! I meant the “suck on this” wank.

  74. creature said,

    April 16, 2012 at 22:46

    IDK, thunder, it would seem that The Grand ‘Ol Man & Snowgrifter would have done the same thing, with minor variances. It could be that the Presidency is just a position, the person doesn’t matter. The public seems to be all about being a position, too. Doggie-style- buns up kneelin’, they was wheelin’ ‘n’ dealin’.

  75. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    April 16, 2012 at 22:46

    Did it occur to you that there’s a lot more to what’s in Silber’s post than just the bailout, B.S.?

    Here’s Obama from his 2012 S.O.T.U.:

    And we’ve put in place new rules to hold Wall Street accountable, so a crisis like this never happens again.

    And I will not go back to the days when Wall Street was allowed to play by its own set of rules.

    Do you think that’s what has happened?

    Here’s a clue.
    ~

  76. RWW said,

    April 16, 2012 at 22:47

    If Repukes say that Dems are waging class warfare against caterpillars, then the media says Dems are waging class warfare against caterpillars and now we have a problem with caterpillars being victim of class warfare being waged against them by Democrats. Has an election ever been won by waging class war against caterpillars? Sadly, no!

  77. Anonymous said,

    April 16, 2012 at 22:57

    they was wheelin’ ‘n’ dealin’.

    And they started into squealin’…

  78. Bitter Scribe said,

    April 16, 2012 at 23:00

    I never heard Obama promise to march anybody off in handcuffs. And turning on him because he hasn’t done that, when the alternative is Romney, may strike you as a mature response. I disagree.

  79. Substance McGravitas said,

    April 16, 2012 at 23:55

    I never heard Obama promise to march anybody off in handcuffs.

    I can think of two ways to look at that:

    He should promise to march people off in handcuffs.
    As the guy at the top of the federal law enforcement heirarchy I figure there’s an implicit promise to try to enforce theft or fraud laws when people are stealing billions.

  80. wiley said,

    April 16, 2012 at 23:57

    Richard Nixon was the last “Cloth Coat” President and he really resented it that even becoming President did not get him membership into the ruling class and proper respect from the fabulously well-to-do.

  81. Chris said,

    April 17, 2012 at 0:04

    Has class warfare rhetoric ever won an (American) election?

    You tell us. You’re the ones who’ve spent the last thirty to forty years harnessing the middle class’s fears, prejudices and insecurities and telling them that it’s all the fault of the Fucking Parasite Class that has the appalling bad taste to live on minimum wage and food stamps when what the fuckers deserve is even less than that. Granted, the biggest element at play there was that “middle class” and “underclass” were largely euphemisms for “white” and “not,” but there was quite an undercurrent of class warfare going on there too. And as for class warfare rhetoric, well damn, I direct you to Nixon and Reagan.

    Not only does class warfare win elections, it’s been absolutely central to elections in virtually every era we’ve ever lived in. (Of course, it’s not always pointed in the same direction, and it’s definitely easier to aim the rhetoric in one direction than in the other).

  82. Christopher said,

    April 17, 2012 at 0:05

    I never heard Obama promise to march anybody off in handcuffs.

    He much prefers blowing them up with drones.

  83. Chris said,

    April 17, 2012 at 0:11

    DAS said,
    April 16, 2012 at 18:35

    Damn. You beat me to it. Should’ve known somebody would.

  84. Nym said,

    April 17, 2012 at 0:14

    Any wingnuts making wank hay of this Secret Service mess?

  85. Chris said,

    April 17, 2012 at 0:17

    Here’s an interesting tidbit – per Gallup, Americans, by a margin of 60 to 37, favor the Buffet Rule that would mandate a 30% minimum tax rate on the rich.

    I don’t really think this is class warfare, though, because based on the polls I’ve seen, most rich people agree with Warren Buffet too. It’s not even about “rich vs poor” anymore – it’s about ideological lunatics who want to bankrupt the country for the sin of Not Looking Like Mayberry Anymore, versus everyone who’d rather not fucking destroy the society we all live in.

  86. RWW said,

    April 17, 2012 at 0:42

    This Blatt d00d needs to learn: you go to class war with the strawmen you have, not the strawmen you wish you had. Srsly.

  87. tsam said,

    April 17, 2012 at 0:42

    Here’s an interesting tidbit – per Gallup, Americans, by a margin of 60 to 37, favor the Buffet Rule that would mandate a 30% minimum tax rate on the rich.

    Rich people favor it because by and large it will change nothing. People who “earn” their income from investment dividends pay taxes under the capital gains rate, which is significantly lower than ordinary income and doesn’t change under the Buffet Rule. I don’t think it will make a bunch of difference to federal revenues.

  88. tsam said,

    April 17, 2012 at 0:45

    Not that it ever really mattered anyway. It had no chance in the House and very little chance in the Senate.

  89. Chris said,

    April 17, 2012 at 0:52

    Ah. Well, that explains some of it.

    Not that it ever really mattered anyway. It had no chance in the House and very little chance in the Senate.

    Gallup admitted that it didn’t have much chance in the House of Representatives. Apparently, not even in the supposedly-Democratic-controlled House of Lords either. Ah, well. Sorry, American Public: we’re a democracy, not a republic, etc.

  90. Chris said,

    April 17, 2012 at 0:56

    Sorry. “Republic not democracy.” You get the point…

  91. Guerilla Voters Cadre 18 said,

    April 17, 2012 at 1:22

    Solidarity, Tom Allen !!!

    “And all of them losing to Barack Obama.”

    That would be the Barack Obama who wants to cut corporate tax rates from 35% to 28%? Who let the banking industry off scot-free? Who receives more donations from BP than any other candidate?

    Oh, that Barack Obama.

    http://www.jillstein.org/

    The Cadre does not endorse any specific party. Rather, we adamantly oppose any vote cast for a Democrat or Republican, the two wings of the Corporate Party.

  92. tsam said,

    April 17, 2012 at 1:25

    Here’s an interesting tidbit – per Gallup, Americans, by a margin of 60 to 37

    Odd that this is exactly a filibuster-proof majority in real life.

  93. tsam said,

    April 17, 2012 at 1:27

    Boehner and his army of Cable Guys were saving up their BMs so they could all take a big stinky shit on it if it made it past the Senate. Now they’ll have to fling it somewhere else.

  94. Guerilla Voters Cadre 18 said,

    April 17, 2012 at 1:39

    S. cerevisiae said,
    April 16, 2012 at 19:29

    Ooooh, a purity troll!

    N__B said,
    April 16, 2012 at 19:31

    Are they the ones that wear those stupid rings?

    How cute. How very, very witty.

    Doing the same thing again and again and again for twenty years … then expecting different results is the definition of ….

    A. Loyal Democrats

    B. Stupidy.

    Re-register as Independents. Think independently. Vote independently.

  95. Guerilla Voters Cadre 18 said,

    April 17, 2012 at 1:42

    Actully stupidy, stupidy stupidity.

  96. Another Kiwi said,

    April 17, 2012 at 1:50

    Rather, we adamantly oppose any vote cast for a Democrat or Republican, the two wings of the Corporate Party.

    Wings? There is an extreme right-wing and a centre-right grouping. No left wing.

  97. N__B said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:05

    Think independently. Vote independently.

    Are you aware of how I think and vote? Is my house bugged?

  98. jim said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:05

    Romney is basically a richer, more secure version of Nixon. Obama has plenty of baggage, being an incumbent in a bad economy, but is it enough to drag him down?

    My concern isn’t with Obama’s incumbency (Yanks have been heavily biased toward two-term Grand Kahunas all my life) or the ecomony.

    It’s that he’s running against the exact same wolfpack of mealy-mouthed scumbags that spiked the Zadroga Bill ……. & he’ll be accused of “Dirty Pool” if he uses actual historical reality like it (or like, say, their subsequent ratfuckery in weakening the support they did finally allow the Zadroga Bill to provide) against them.

    Or how about GOP Congrescritters accusing Obama of grandstanding when he demanded reinvigorating & reorganizing the search for Bin Laden? That ladies & germs is a fucking veritable doozy for the ages right there.

    I’m just hoping Obama wll be bright enough to ask Boehner & Cantor to invite him to another GOP Congressional Retreat.

  99. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:07

    I never heard Obama promise to march anybody off in handcuffs. And turning on him because he hasn’t done that, when the alternative is Romney, may strike you as a mature response. I disagree.

    I strongly suspect that thundra is not endorsing Rmoney. Not even indirectly in teh “a vote not for Barry O is a vote for Willard Mitt” or wev. Sure we’re too far out to make a foolproof prediction about the General, but if there ever was a time when a Dem who isn’t FDR holding the White House was a given – this is it, 9% unemployment notwithstanding.

    So, if you honestly disagree with this administrations policies, whether it’s about unmanned drones, extrajudicial assassinations, the refusal to go after war criminals or even release the damning documents they produced when they had the office, selling out the public option, HAMP, Teh Bailout, or wev – what are you suppose to do? STFU, because otherwise WILLARD! Because it seems totally reasonable to be upset and offended by teh fact that no one is going to spend a day in jail over, for example, robo-signing.

  100. RWW said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:13

    Re: The Cadre does not endorse any specific party. Rather, we adamantly oppose any vote cast for a Democrat or Republican, the two wings of the Corporate Party.

    It’s very strange to advocate democracy and then use terminology that indicates a desire to prevent people from voting for whomever they want, even if they’re wrong about it. Don’t you mean you disagree with people who choose to vote for Democrats or Republicans rather than OPPOSE them doing so? Then again, that’s probably exactly what you mean…

  101. N__B said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:14

    STFU, because otherwise WILLARD will set his rats on your ass.

  102. Guerilla Voters Cadre 18 said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:15

    Look, those people are all about identity. They are the all identity politics, all the time, party. It doesn’t matter to them what someone actually does, only what they are, or are perceived to be. They don’t scratch the surface, they gaze reverently and hypnotically at it.

    And this differs from Democrats?

  103. Major Kong said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:16

    Think independently. Vote independently.

    Because that Ralph Nader thing worked out so well?

  104. g said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:19

    bashing Dems for being elitistest moar than Repubs

    Wait, we’re elitists AND communistic class warriors?

  105. Guerilla Voters Cadre 18 said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:25

    My Tribe vs. Their Tribe mentality

    Nailed it, you did. Pefect bumper sticker for the Cadre.

  106. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:32

    Srsly, though. Willard is who they are going with. I mean, that was a forgone conclusion as his Citizens United fund started mincing each Tea Party fueled alternative in turn. But Willard. I think this is a contest even teh Democratic Party can’t blow.

    And whether you think Obama is Liberal Jesus or Corporate Sellout, d00d runs a killer campaign. Plus his campaign is effing rolling in filthy lucre – and that’s even considering that he’s up against Bain Capital dollars.

    Congratulations Mitt, you just won teh opportunity to be teh second nine-figure net worth candidate to come in second to Barry O.

  107. Guerilla Voters Cadre 18 said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:33

    Because that Ralph Nader thing worked out so well?

    You clearly understand how the Two Party system works. But also shows a fundemental misunderstanding of how democracy works. Setting aside the Supreme Court travesty, the principle of democracy is that the person who gets the most votes wins.

    The Cadre didn’t vote for George Bush, so somehow WE are responsible for electing him? By that logic, all the people who DID NOT vote at all were also ‘responsible’ for electing Bush, because THEY didn’t vote for Gore, either!

    So Bush wins with an overwhelming 70% mandate by that reasoning.

    Needs some moar high school civics class on how democracy actually works.

  108. Pupienus said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:35

    And this differs from Democrats?

    I don’t recall citing party affiliation in my comment. By “those people” I meant the cult of conservatism.

    Remember when that Bill feller was Preznit back in the day? Remember how we used to speak of “policy wonks?” the policy wonks were proud to be called such, because they cared about policy. It became a pejorative used by the GØPers. When Dumbya stole the election the distinction between policy and politics was completely lost. During the first decade of this century there was no policy that wasn’t determined solely by politics.

    “Conservatives” are driven by ideology. Most, if not all, of their “policy” prescriptions have been demonstrated to be bad, bad things. Hell, they don’t even think in terms of policy that isn’t bound hand and foot with politics, identity politics.

    Liberals tend to see analysis of policy as a good thing. Liberals value reality based approaches to public policy.

    That conservatives comprise the vast majority of the R party I think allows me to make those claims about republicans. The D party has many liberals, some progressive and lots of folks who probably fall closer to the tribal values side.

  109. Guerilla Voters Cadre 18 said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:38

    Obama’s a constitutional scholar, and he sure as fuck hasn’t been respecting the constitution.

    This. Also how’s that Camp Justice working out?

  110. Guerilla Voters Cadre 18 said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:42

    Wings? There is an extreme right-wing and a centre-right grouping. No left wing.

    Antipodians get it. Obama is an Eisenhower Republican.

  111. Major Kong said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:43

    The Cadre didn’t vote for George Bush, so somehow WE are responsible for electing him?

    Sadly, yes. In a two-party, winner-take-all Presidential election voting for a fringe, third-party candidate like Nader, who has no realistic chance of winning is pretty much equivalent to pulling the lever for W.

    Setting aside the Supreme Court travesty, the principle of democracy is that the person who gets the most votes wins.

    We elect Presidents by electoral votes, not popular votes. I wish it wasn’t that way, but that’s the system we’re stuck with for now.

  112. Guerilla Voters Cadre 18 said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:46

    Are you aware of how I think and vote?

    Nope. We are urging people the think and vote independently.

    Is my house bugged?

    Dunno. We do know that–instead of rolling it back as he promised–Obama’s DOJ is cementing the Surveillance State into place.

  113. Guerilla Voters Cadre 18 said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:50

    Cadre 18 is fading back into the hills now. We’ll be back. Seven months is long time and we’ll have plenty of targets to hit.

    Solidarity!

  114. N__B said,

    April 17, 2012 at 2:59

    Are you aware of how I think and vote?

    Nope. We are urging people the think and vote independently.

    Then you’re a flaming asshole, because my comment was in response to yours where you called you me a stupid loyal democrat. Go fuck yourself, you useless piece of shit.

  115. Guerilla Voters Cadre 18 said,

    April 17, 2012 at 3:02

    Stay-behind squad provides covering fire?

    We elect Presidents by electoral votes, not popular votes.

    How do you elect Representatives and Senators? Like, say, Max Baucus, Evan Bayh, Blanche Lincoln, Joe Leiberman?

  116. Stay-behind Squad said,

    April 17, 2012 at 3:04

    Tagfails don’t alter the point. We’re off the ammo cache now.

  117. Concerned said,

    April 17, 2012 at 3:08

    You guys are really funny and all, and I really like you, but stop photoshopping Dan Blart in insulting poses. In tutus and holding watermelons, he is a friend of mine and it’s not very nice, plus it makes him like a fagot. Please remove this photos or I may have to let his lawyer know. Otherwise keep up the good fight!

  118. Smut Clyde said,

    April 17, 2012 at 3:13

    child impregnation most popular in Bible Belt“.

  119. M. Bouffant said,

    April 17, 2012 at 3:14

    Dear “Concerned:”

    Speakers At Boston’s Tea Party Event Scream At Protesters: ‘We Will Not Be Silenced By Faggots’

  120. N__B said,

    April 17, 2012 at 3:18

    “child impregnation most popular in Bible Belt“.

    Obviously a proper chastity belt needs a genital covering more effective than a bible.

  121. M. Bouffant said,

    April 17, 2012 at 3:18

    “child impregnation most popular in Bible Belt“

    Be fair, crackers have a shorter-than-U.S.-average life-span, & must get started earlier than normal people, esp. considering infant & mother mortality rates down there.

  122. Jennifer said,

    April 17, 2012 at 3:25

    I dunno, in the face of “your vagina, let us shove this wand up it,” Obama doesn’t seem all that bad.

  123. Snorghagen said,

    April 17, 2012 at 3:27

    child impregnation most popular in Bible Belt

    At least they’re cracking down on wanton, sex-crazed hand-holding.

  124. Portland bound said,

    April 17, 2012 at 3:52

    If a Sadly, Nobody (long time listener, almost never poster) were coming to Portland (technically Hillsboro) for a job interview. Where should he eat?

  125. Pupienus said,

    April 17, 2012 at 3:56

    Btw,
    And this differs from Democrats?

    bothers me more than I can say. From a comment that mentioned nothing about parties you absurdly reductio to “there is nothing but identity politics” and that no one in the world aside from you few sage geniuses recognizes the fact. Not that _you_ suffer from such severe moral failings.

    Fuck that noise. Projection thy name is Cadre. Not to mention adolescent superiority complex shit and stuff. Some kids drink the Rand kool-aid and never grow out of it. Other kids drink a different flavor and never grow out of that. What they have in common is unquestioning assuredness that they are right. So fuck that noise. if you want to have an adult conversation that admits of doubt, nuance, Bismarckian possibilities then bring it on, I will welcome it. If you want to throw ideological poison tipped spears then just fuck off, you’re useless.

  126. Pupienus said,

    April 17, 2012 at 3:57

    Sorry, I should not have said “you’re useless.” What I meant to say was “you’re less than useless.”

  127. Substance McGravitas said,

    April 17, 2012 at 4:02

    We are urging people the think and vote independently.

    It is utterly unpossible that people do the think-and-vote without guidance from the Very Concerned.

  128. Portland bound said,

    April 17, 2012 at 4:04

    If I’da known it was going to be this kind of thread I woulda stuck my dick in the mashed potatoes / Ill Comm.

    I guess I’ll try again when the threat level goes back to yellow-orange….

  129. N__B said,

    April 17, 2012 at 4:11

    Bismarckian possibilities

    I would consider growing a walrus mustache if I only had a walrus.

  130. Pupienus said,

    April 17, 2012 at 4:16

    If a Sadly, Nobody (long time listener, almost never poster) were coming to Portland (technically Hillsboro) for a job interview. Where should he eat?

    Hillsboro. *shudder* Intel, Analog, etc. Exurbia. But hey, lots of people live their and like it. So I hear.

    As to dining, it depends on your circumstances. If you’re limited to the Beavertron / Hillsboro area I can’t help just now though I’m sure there is some good dining out there. If you can spend some time in Portland proper, the question becomes harder but much more fun to answer. My personal favorite these days (though it has been many, many days) is Le Pigeon. Google it. The breaded sweetbreads are awesome as is the beef cheek Bourgignon. The cornbread dessert with maple bacon ice cream is not one of those “because bacon” things, it’s fucking brilliant.

    Depending what you’re into: Toro Bravo is authentic inauthentic Spanish – the meals aren’t exactly what you’d find in Spain but the character, the feel are completely authentic.

    Pok Pok is goddamned authentic Thai, just not the Thai you’ll find in any other Thai restaurant.

    Paley’s Place, despite being the darling of the New York fuckig Times is an RCH shy of spectacular. (Vitaley Paley won his Iron Chef battle)

    If you can manage to hit some food carts you’ll feel blessed. Best fish and chips in the city is found at The Frying Scotsman. Nong’s khao man Gai is one the best $7 you can spend. Koi Fusion’s bulgoki tacos are addictive as shit.

    Of course, some of the best dining in town is at Pupienus’ and Teh Ho’s place. But that’s by invitation only. At the very least, you could probably get a drink there. At the very least.

  131. Pupienus said,

    April 17, 2012 at 4:16

    Fck you autocorrect and my fat fingers. Live “there.”

  132. Bitter Scribe said,

    April 17, 2012 at 4:43

    Anybody who honestly doesn’t see a difference between Obama and Romney is too stupid to argue with.

  133. Portland bound said,

    April 17, 2012 at 4:47

    Awesome, Thanks Pupienus Maximus! ( erstwhile PeeJ)

    My three-fold purpose was satisfied:

    1. I’m really going out there at need to eat: Pok Pok or The Frying Scotsman sound like my speed.

    2. I like to read it when you talk about food : “because Bacon” , indeed

    3. I wanted to continue the background noise of Sadlies getting interviews & jobs, it’s getting better out here

    If you see an out-of-towner wandering around in a “Josephus ISREAL” t-shirt, that’s probably me…

  134. Whale Chowder said,

    April 17, 2012 at 4:50

    So teh Fenwick Guerilla dude makes a point, up to a point. In economic terms there is little to choose between Tweedle-B and Tweedle-M but of course there’s much more to it than that. There’s the wimmins shaming and bedroom snooping. There’s the bellicose foreign policy. There’s the utter disregard for the poor…at least O gives it lip service.

    And then, of course, there’s the trump card: the Supremes. Nothing like the opportunity to influence the third co-equal branch of government to focus one’s thinking.

    So vote for who you like but don’t pretend they’re all the same.

  135. Substance McGravitas said,

    April 17, 2012 at 4:51

    Jesse Jackson’s Glacier Snake Loaf

    All you do is get glacier snake and put and basil on top of it before loafing it. That – putting those seasonings on top – is the secret. Shred the meat, then put it on top of some praying mantis stomach. Put Velveeta (at all grocery stores, make sure to get this Velveeta too) over top of it. Put it in the microwave for 120 seconds. You can add to it whatever you want. Some people put a layer of leek on it and just eat it like that. I chop up egg, fresh mozzarella and coconut milk and put them on top, as well as skipjack tuna egg. WARNING: You will never be able to order glacier snake at a restaurant or bar ever again, as they simply won’t measure up to the ones you can make at home.

  136. Another Kiwi said,

    April 17, 2012 at 5:01

    Bismarkian possibilities He smoked fourteen cigars a day, drank beer in the afternoon, kept two large goblets – one for champagne and one for port – at hand during meals. He drank a bottle of champagne before he went to bed to help him sleep. U.K. History website.

    I’ll pass on the seegars but do my best on the alcohol. Port and champers, though??

  137. Whale Chowder said,

    April 17, 2012 at 5:04

    Port and champers, though??

    Worked for him.

  138. Chris said,

    April 17, 2012 at 5:08

    So teh Fenwick Guerilla dude makes a point, up to a point. In economic terms there is little to choose between Tweedle-B and Tweedle-M but of course there’s much more to it than that. There’s the wimmins shaming and bedroom snooping. There’s the bellicose foreign policy. There’s the utter disregard for the poor…at least O gives it lip service.

    In economic terms, if both parties were the same, Social Security and Medicare would’ve been abolished decades ago.

    I’ll rant about ball-lessness and corruption among Democrats, but I, also, think it’s utter fucking madness to pretend they’re anything like the Repubs (or that voting for anyone else can do anything other than help the Repubs). Yeah, my vote for November’s as good as cast already. Sorry, Naderites.

  139. El Cid said,

    April 17, 2012 at 5:12

    The class warfare Warner-Bros style (many of the people from the Bugs Bunny cartoons) 1944 re-election themed cartoon for the class-warfare-themed 1944 re-election campaign, “Hell Bent For Election“.

    More from Wikipedia.

    Hell-Bent For Election was a 1944 two-reel (thirteen minute) animated cartoon short subject. The short was one of the first major films from United Productions of America (then known as “Industrial Films”), which would go on to become the most influential animation studio of the 1950s. As UPA did not have a full staff or a studio location until the late-1940s, this film was made in animator Zack Schwartz’s apartment with the help of moonlighters from various local Hollywood animation studios. Among the moonlighters was Chuck Jones, who directed the film…

    …The film is an allegorical campaign film, designed to inspire viewers to vote for Franklin D. Roosevelt. Democratic Party candidate, Roosevelt, is depicted as a then-modern streamlined steam locomotive pulling a high-speed war freight train, and his Republican opponent Thomas E. Dewey is depicted as an old creaky steam locomotive (numbered 1929 as a nod to the 1929 stock market crash) harboring misfortune, taxes, and, representing African-American rights, a caboose named “Jim Crow.” The conflict in the film centers on Joe, a railroad switch operator who represents the American voting public. Joe must decide whether to listen to the influence of an elfin Dewey supporter who tries to make him fall asleep at the switch, or fight his influence and make sure that the FDR “Win the War Special” stays on the track. At one point, the elfin character briefly metamorphisizes into Adolf Hitler while trying to force Sam to neglect his duties…

    …The film was sponsored by United Auto Workers, and features a song, “We’re Going to Win the War”, written by Earl Robinson and E.Y. Harburg, famous for writing the music for The Wizard of Oz. Hell-Bent for Election was UPA’s first major success, and paved the way for its later achievements, including nine nominations and three wins [from the] Academy Awards for Animated Short Film.

  140. John Revolta said,

    April 17, 2012 at 5:28

    And then, of course, there’s the trump card: the Supremes.

    This. A whole lotta this.

    Unless you figure there’s no difference between a Sotomayor and a Scalia either.

  141. Whale Chowder said,

    April 17, 2012 at 5:47

    a Scalia

    May a coronary event be in his near term future.

  142. Golem Heart said,

    April 17, 2012 at 5:50

    “That would be the Barack Obama who wants to cut corporate tax rates from 35% to 28%? Who let the banking industry off scot-free? Who receives more donations from BP than any other candidate?”–Tom Allen

    Yes, that’s the guy that’ll beat the republican nominee. Perhaps you’re saying he shouldn’t? (I realize this topic has been beat to a pulp downthread from Tom, but his question as posed demands gormless answers and clarifications.) Yes, THAT Barack Obama. On account of our politics.

  143. Snorghagen said,

    April 17, 2012 at 6:32

    Anybody who honestly doesn’t see a difference between Obama and Romney is too stupid to argue with.

    That sums it up for me.

    Besides, it’s a real disservice to the Republicans – who’ve been working day and night for years to be the most stump-humping berserko ultra-extremo-maximo roaring reactionary megaturds that can be conceived of by humankind – to equate them with mere Democrats.

  144. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    April 17, 2012 at 7:14

    There’s also the part where what the Guerrilla Voter’s Cadre Local 18 is offering is a doomed choice. We can vote for Obama, in which case we’re weak, stupid loyal Democrats voting identity politics. If we vote for a /Republican/, well.

    However, the choice they ultimate support, “vote independently”, is a doomed choice as well. Not only will none of the parties win, because we’re distributing our votes so finely that none can get actual buoyancy, but we’re still voting identity politics. It’s just the choice in identity we’re making is the disaffected independent showing off what brilliant shining intellects they are for recognizing the broken game, and so choosing to make symbolic gestures instead of having to actually prove anything.

    Ralph Nader didn’t have to prove shit. Ross Perot didn’t have to prove shit. Pat Buchanan has not had to prove shit. David Duke hasn’t had to prove shit. They just have to run for President every four years, hope they can say enough shit to get media coverage, and then fade back into the background, go back to the hills for another four years.

    Independent voting is for drama queens and professional sacrifices.

  145. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    April 17, 2012 at 7:18

    Basically, what I’m saying is, if you think the Democrats you have suck, then become a Democrat and run for office instead of them. Don’t go wandering off into the hills, subvert and turn.

  146. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    April 17, 2012 at 7:24

    Hell, infiltrate, subvert and turn the Republicans too. If we can turn every party into the fulfillment of Sen. McCarthy’s drunken deliriums, a pinko in every pot, a commie in every car garage, then we have succeeded in a way all the perfunctory voting for a third-party never will.

  147. tensor said,

    April 17, 2012 at 8:14

    Glad to see the thread has self-recovered from the boring purity-troll infestation. I was hoping Chairman Guevara and Our Very Own Case of Killer ThunderClap(hE=BS^2) would stick around long enough to edumacate us giggly Obots on all of the progress made by all of the Independent Presidents of the last century or so. It would have been such an inspiring lesson for us little innocent naifs, learning about how fearless Independent Voters, boldly casting off the shackles of party politics, had elected many Independent Presidents and Senators and suchlike, so that wimmens now had the rights to vote, and to not breed for rapists; how, thanks to fearless Independents, gays now were treated like humans with (YMMV by state) full marriage privilieges; how, thanks to fearlessly rejecting the fear of professional political fear-flingers, Teh Mighty Mighty Independent Voters had caused such radical change that the extra-judicial execution of a young black man now warrants a murder charge, not a “nigger got what he deserved” in a Southern Accent, and a collective Yankee shrug. Yes, my poor widdle ignorant lib’rul self was hoping our great Self-Righteous Self-Appointed Self-Mugging Gods of Independence would favor me with An Independent People’s History of These Here United States, but Sadly, Yeah, they had to do what radically Independent Independents always do: file their tax returns on time, so Preznit Obamney has plenty of their money for killer drones.

    But, as St. Lev Davidovich Brohnstein reminds us, there once was an old-fashioned machine politico from Texas. He swore, he drank, he twisted arms like your bartender does lemon rinds on a martini glass, and he spread death and atrocity across vast swaths of innocent sortabrown humanity in faraway places he could not even pronounce right-like. He also did all of those things that JFK only talked about*, because he might someday have wanted was forced to do so by radicals in his very own, very Democratic, Party. There’s a lesson in there, somewhere, methinks; if only our Purity Trolls would return to say what it was! Instead, this is the very best they can do:

    How cute. How very, very witty.

    How lame. How very, very lame.

    *Mark C. Miller, The Bush Dyslexicon, 2001

  148. Major Kong said,

    April 17, 2012 at 8:41

    tensor -

    Well played sir. Well played.

  149. Nym said,

    April 17, 2012 at 8:49

    I would put up a suitable image of applause if WordPress would only let me.

  150. tensor said,

    April 17, 2012 at 8:52

    Thank you, Major “Cojones” Kong, from one crazy aviator to another. It does seem that some of us have forgotten the First Maxim of Social Progress, as it was sung to us from on high by St. Bruce of Cockburn Canuckistan:

    Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight; I’m gonna kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight…”

  151. Guerilla Voters Cadre 18 said,

    April 17, 2012 at 10:06

    We never said the Two Parties were equivalent. Leprosy and Plague are two very different diseases. So let’s drop that hoary old canard, shall we?

    We DO infiltrate the Republicans, under different names. We encourage Paulbots to write in Paul or vote Libertarian. We encourage angry Gingrich and Santorum voters to cast ‘true conservative’ write-ins. We’re equal-opportunity saboteurs.

    By the way, we do NOT believe that any of the minor parties will ever emerge as a viable third party. We have a quite different model for the eventual destruction of Two-Party tyranny. (At least Comrade Fenwick does. But he’s CUH-raze-ee, as everyone in Sadlyville must know by now.)

    If you are a progressive Democrat–and you wonder why the party has moved steadily rightward over the last two decades, paying lipservice to your concerns, and then pissing all over you (except for election-time rhetoric)–then you might consider voting tactically: The Democrats take you for granted because you ‘have nowhere else to go.’ So go somewhere else…and use that as leverage to pull the Party leftward in the future. They take you for granted and they always will unless you convince them that you’re NOT an ‘automatic’ vote. Make them EARN your vote.

    Democrats are (generally) NOT as bad as Republicans! Hell, we’ve got no argument with that. Democrats are invetabrates and utterly inept at governing, but mos def Not as Insane as Republicans! (Sounds like a snazzy bumper-sticker…but not a very compelling argument.)

    Okay. Temporary cease-fire. It’s safe to go back now to your regular snark without Guerilla Voters sniping at the Democratic Party. It’s a long campaign until November…and we’re used to long campaigns. (Hell, some of us have been in the field since 1994; two are recent recruits from 2008. That’s correct: Comrade Fenwick is NOT the only member; he was only the founder.) We’re a resiliant bunch; we’ve been carpet-bombed by Democrats before.

    Solidarity.

  152. Christopher said,

    April 17, 2012 at 10:19

    It’s just the choice in identity we’re making is the disaffected independent showing off what brilliant shining intellects they are for recognizing the broken game, and so choosing to make symbolic gestures instead of having to actually prove anything.

    Fuck’s sake, there’s a lot of what internet folk call “butthurt” in this thread.

    That’s what I don’t get about the whole “purity troll” thing. There’s always this conviction that you’d only be an independent if you thought you were so much better than the rest of us, up there, looking down on us from your high horse. Well you don’t know what it’s like down in the trenches man! You have no right to judge me!

    What the fuck do you care if some random independent thinks he’s better than you?

    Barrack Obama convened a secret tribunal which used secret evidence to order the deaths of several American citizens and then sent out an army of
    spies and robots to kill them. At this point the man is basically a cartoon supervillain.

    Carp about Nader all you want, but Gee Dubya never pulled this shit.

    Anyway, it seems to me that there’s a point where two evils become so nasty that choosing the “lesser” is no longer an option. If presidential candidate clone Hitler promises to use his alien army to murder all the world’s jews, and candidate clone Stalin also promises to murder all the Jews AND pick Supreme Court Justices who will protect abortion rights, then I think things have just gotten so shitty that the Presidential election isn’t a big deal anymore.

    Reasonable people can disagree on where that line is; for me, it’s when you decide the 1st, 4th and 5th amendments to the constitution no longer apply because there are terrorists somewhere in the world. I don’t think I’m better than anybody just because the issues that are important to me aren’t important to them.

    I think we independents deserve the same consideration.

  153. Stay Behind Squad said,

    April 17, 2012 at 10:22

    tensor: Care to explain why the Democrats fought tooth-and-nail against the 14th Amendment? Why they voted for the Patriot Act? The Bush Tax Cuts…and the re-authorization of the Bush Tax Cuts? Why they rolled over on the Hyde Amendment? Why Clinton signed the repeal of Glass-Steagall (and why Goldman-Sachs hero Robert Rubin was the Congressional point man)? Their ‘oppostion’ during the eight years of Bush-Cheney was really impressive, huh?

    Nope. No Independent Presidents. Sorta hard, given a century-and-a-half chokehold of the Two Parties on the political discourse of the country.

  154. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    April 17, 2012 at 10:41

    I believe the case may be where that’s irrelevant behavior. If you don’t vote for the Democrats, then you don’t really exist to the Democrats. At least not in significant enough numbers to get them to turn your way. The reason the rightward course has been made is because they know those voters exist.

    Sure, those voters hate their guts for not being as insane as they are, but those voters exist, in numbers large enough to make it worth the bother.

    You sticking out your tongue and voting symbolism with the Symbolism Party? Enh. Better things to do.

    So subvert. Not convince Republicans to vote for a racist idiot who comes at us as a sign of convergent evolution, with similar ideas built from terrible foundations. That’s confusing the children thinking they’re making a good choice putting their hands to the hot oven.

    Infiltrate and subvert. Put on the suit, put on the smile, and see if you’re actually able to change the world instead of just playing with yourself.

    Be the change you want to see, as it were.

  155. Christopher said,

    April 17, 2012 at 10:47

    Infiltrate and subvert. Put on the suit, put on the smile, and see if you’re actually able to change the world instead of just playing with yourself.

    Be the change you want to see, as it were.

    So… what are you talking about specifically? Surely you aren’t suggesting that if I don’t like Obama, my main recourse should be to run for president on the Democratic ticket?

    And if it’s not that, if you’re talking about working for the ACLU, you know, you can do that AND still have time to not cast a vote for president.

    It’s not like you have to choose between volunteer work and not voting.

  156. Porlock Junior said,

    April 17, 2012 at 10:57

    @El Cid–

    A metric buttload of thanks for that cartoon! So that was the font and origin of those UPA cartoons that were so cool in the 1950s. Where Mister Magoo came from. Buncha dern lefties! Should’ve guessed, from the admiration expressed by the gown-ups in my family, but I wasn’t doing much sophisticated political analysis then. (Early very vague memory: family going to my aunt’s place in San Francisco to distribute flyers for Wallace.) (Note to the youths: that’s Henry, not George, and that was 1948.)

    The cartoon grabs one from the first time the face of the streamliner appears. High-class cartoon work. The burly American worker is interesting, too: properly blond, to be sure, but not much resembling the heroic archetypes of either the Enemy or the Very Big Ally.

    Not to mention the bad guy being a straight cartoonist version of the Southern Senator.

    And go for the 1940s cartoon, stay for the campaign song at the end. See all those political promises they made to all the interest groups? Like the soldiers, who supposedly would get rewarded for their service with things like education? Old folks, with social insurance? Unions, with good wages and labor laws and stuff? Even industrialists who supposedly would get lots of international trade and make zillions off it??

    They’d do ANYTHING to get a vote, wouldn’t they? And all, if one may return to the topic, from that rich bastard with his snobby great elitist cigarette holder.

  157. tensor said,

    April 17, 2012 at 11:14

    What the fuck do you care if some random independent thinks he’s better than you?

    What the fuck do you care if you come here for a laugh, instead to find some self-appointed, Gung-Holier-than-thou Internet Voter Tough Guy, who has *demonstrably done* less than H.D. Thoreau to oppose injustice, has manufactured a fact-free rant, for the sole purpose of calling you stupid?

    We never said the Two Parties were equivalent. Leprosy and Plague are two very different diseases. So let’s drop that hoary old canard, shall we?

    You never did provide evidence of your awesomely Independent Voters ever accomplishing a goddamned thing, did you? (Fuckin’ facts, how do they work?!?) Speaking of which:

    We DO infiltrate the Republicans, under different names. We encourage Paulbots to write in Paul or vote Libertarian. We encourage angry Gingrich and Santorum voters to cast ‘true conservative’ write-ins. We’re equal-opportunity saboteurs.

    Lord Rmoney would laugh in the face of your efforts. If he knew about them, or cared. (Why should he?)

    …some of us have been in the field since 1994…

    Since 1994, gay marriage has moved from a laughable pipe dream of a few hardcore activists, to reality for millions of Americans who didn’t even have full civil rights back then. I don’t know where you live reside, but here in Washington state, it was Democrats in our State House and Governorship, not Independents, who made that difference.

    (Oh, and “in the field”? How militarily pretentious of you.)

    Care to explain why the Democrats fought tooth-and-nail against the 14th Amendment?

    Because the Democrats of almost 150 years ago were the political forefathers of the racist fuckwits who now call themselves Republicans, right down to their geographical base? Are you really that goddamned ignorant, or do you just enjoy playing an imbecile on the internet? (HINT: try searching for “LBJ”. “Voting Rights Act”, and “Southern Strategy”.)

    Their ‘oppostion’ during the eight years of Bush-Cheney was really impressive, huh?

    How many “Al Gore is just the same as W.” voters in Florida were required to allow Cheney that shot at power? 400? 1,000 max? How many voted Independent Nader because of contrafactual, preening bloviations from fools like you?

    Okay. Temporary cease-fire.

    Closest thing to an honest admission of failure we’re ever going to get out of the Purity (No) Ball(s) crowd, right there. Suck on your cheap plastic ring, troll.

  158. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    April 17, 2012 at 11:22

    What the fuck do you care if some random independent thinks he’s better than you?

    Because some random independent seems to think these things are new to the office. Barack Obama, as President, has people’s blood on his hand.

    There’s a fucking shocker.

    How many people did George W. Bush wind up killing through his orders? How many did Ronald Reagan or Jimmy Carter? Nixon? Millard Fillmore? George Washington made his whole career as president on his skill at the ordering of and killing of fuckers.

    Fuck, William Henry Harrison probably had some guy whacked in his 30 days as president.

    It doesn’t matter how many political parties you devise, what system of governance you devise, eventually, somewhere along the line, affairs of state will require heads of state to order someone get iced. Maybe they’re feel bad about it, maybe they’ll clutch their poorly-hidden erections at the thought, but either way, governance will require blood.

    The president will kill people. That is one of the tasks we wind up electing these people to do, the tasks that turn their hair white and age them more years than they serve. There aren’t really means to avoid this. So by all means, hold Obama’s feet to the fire on the killings he orders. Hell, hold them all accountable, as they’re all equally culpable.

    All I’m asking is consideration that anyone who gains the office is going to be. The only way to avoid culpability is to never win. So, politically, what you have is triage and math. Incumbent kills x amount of American citizens through secret tribunals, plus y amount of foreign citizens through military activity. Opposition has potential to kill x amount, plus y amount, plus z amount of to be determined. Solve for vote.

  159. actor212 said,

    April 17, 2012 at 11:24

    Has class warfare rhetoric ever won an (American) election?

    Nixon in 68 springs to mind. Of course, it was also pretty racially tinged, too, so it was hard to see that it was a perversion of the War on Poverty.

  160. actor212 said,

    April 17, 2012 at 11:29

    The president will kill people.

    And if he doesn’t directly, he has ways of getting someone else to take the blame.

    Being President is like being a mob boss, but with the added level of scrutiny that John Gotti never had to live with.

  161. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    April 17, 2012 at 11:36

    So… what are you talking about specifically?

    In specifics? Run for local or state elections. I don’t expect you to go directly for the brass ring, obviously, since that’s still just professional sacrifice territory. Still, don’t like your county commissioner? Run against him. Don’t like your state rep? Run against her. Make yourself the next socialist mayor of wherever. Put your skin in the game to the degree to which you think the game is fucked.

    If your goal is, instead, to simply drop out, then drop the fucking revolutionary cosplay of cadres and whatnot, and just fucking drop out like the other half the country that goes on with its merry little life, safe and secure in the knowledge that we’re fucked whichever way we turn. Because right now, the voting half of the country is fighting over what quarter of the country gets to run shit.

  162. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    April 17, 2012 at 11:37

    Then, there’s this whole “waking up” part.
    .

  163. Suezboo said,

    April 17, 2012 at 11:47

    I like Bernie Sanders.

  164. Suezboo said,

    April 17, 2012 at 11:49

    I mean, I don’t want to intervene in internecine warfare but isn’t he a socialist who jumped into the system really successfully?

  165. Major Kong said,

    April 17, 2012 at 11:52

    Then, there’s this whole “waking up” part.

    I’m just finishing my shift and going to bed. You’ll only get so much sympathy here.

  166. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    April 17, 2012 at 11:58

    I’m just finishing my shift and going to bed. You’ll only get so much sympathy here.

    Braggin’, not complainin’. Happy to be reporting to work next Monday, yay!

    (yes, that means my pee is awesome, and DHS found nothing linking me to S,N! in the background check)
    .

  167. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    April 17, 2012 at 12:02

    I mean, I don’t want to intervene in internecine warfare but isn’t he a socialist who jumped into the system really successfully?

    Yep! And also a really excellent example because he targeted the lower levels of power. His primary issue is, well, there’s just the one of him. Bit of a lonely caucus. Still, he has the right idea.

    The brass ring of Presidency is a mug’s game.

  168. tensor said,

    April 17, 2012 at 12:03

    I mean, I don’t want to intervene in internecine warfare but isn’t he a socialist who jumped into the system really successfully?

    No worries, yes, Sen. Sanders is a nominal independent who won office, from a small state which has had minimal influence (and wasn’t even a state at one point — it was part of New York). Having meaningful influence over actual legislation is another matter.

    As you may well know, the *only* American who is now honored with a federal holiday all his own was our great political leader, Martin Luther King, Jr., who would have accomplished far less had not the Democrats, especially that machine-made war-monger, LBJ, not gone fully to the mat for the cause of civil rights. And why did LBJ do that, instead of being a good politician and splitting the difference? Because radical Democrats forced his hand. Dr. King worked outside the party system; Democrats worked within it. The holier-than-thou, self-styled independents of that day were Republicans, who sat on their hands and did nothing.

  169. Makhno said,

    April 17, 2012 at 12:04

    I notice one of the Guerrilla’s stupidest lines hasn’t been directly addressed:

    > You clearly understand how the Two Party system works. But also shows a fundemental misunderstanding of how democracy works. Setting aside the Supreme Court travesty, the principle of democracy is that the person who gets the most votes wins.

    This pretty much translates as “We get that America is not a democracy. Fortunately, however, we are able to fix this, because America is a democracy.” Acting as if you live in a multi-party system won’t magically make it so. The practical choices are simple: either work within the system you’ve got, or start building a third party up from the ground, accepting that it will take decades. (Or violent revolution, of course.)

    Want your party to have an actual shot at the Presidency? Having members of it in significant numbers in both Houses would be a good place to start. And you won’t get that without controlling a few state legislatures and probably the odd governorship, and you won’t get THAT without having local authorities under your belt first. A third party could succeed if people just had the patience to begin at the beginning instead of running an egomaniac for president with no base at all.

    Oh, and…

    > So go somewhere else…and use that as leverage to pull the Party leftward in the future.

    This I have sympathy with… except that, again, you have to be going somewhere viable (so again with the building-a-third-party-up-from-the-bottom thing). If your “somewhere else” means turning to perennial losers, the Democrats will simply assume that you’ll come crawling back. Why not? It’s always worked for them in the past.

  170. N__B said,

    April 17, 2012 at 12:59

    Actually the piece of GVC’s stupidity that no one has addressed is his pretense that he is legion, rather than one pretentious and lonely asshole.

  171. N__B said,

    April 17, 2012 at 13:01

    Note that I assume GVC is male because of my generally good opinion of women.

  172. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    April 17, 2012 at 13:03

    Actually the piece of GVC’s stupidity that no one has addressed is his pretense that he is legion, rather than one pretentious and lonely asshole.

    He sounds a lot like that Alaskan asshole that posts at Eschaton as “City Kid.”
    .

  173. kg said,

    April 17, 2012 at 13:53

    Are we done Fenning the Wick?

  174. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 17, 2012 at 15:58

    Hey, some observations from up here in Canuckistani-land.

    Our current ruling party is an Reformed Alliance Conservative whatsit. Basically, a bunch of right-wing kooks from Alberta decided that they had enough of the moderate-centrist-right policies of the established conservative party that they formed a third (actually fifth at the time) party to contest things and eventually ended up taking over the mainline conservative group, which now has a majority government. This took something like a decade and a half, and it was helped along by the fact that the previous mainline conservative party sucked ass.

    Not that much unlike how the current Republican party is being subsumed by their Tea Party fringe – and now control the House of Representatives – a lot of that being facilitated by the awesome ability of moderate Republicans to suck ass.

    So there’s a ponderable – if the right-wing fringe can do it, why can’t the left-wing “fringe”? I mean other than the poisonous corporate infiltration into politics and policy via campaign funds and think tanks; the influence of the military-industrial complex tied with an exceptional sense of patriotic nationalism; the consolidation of major media such that only a very narrowly defined range of head office approved views get airtime; &c.

    Incidentally, our mainline liberal party managed to ride complacency and complete detachment from the general public all the way from Canada’s “natural ruling party” to near irrelevance as the moar left-wing NDP has taken over as the Official Opposition. So I guess we’re getting a leftward shift in our dominant political parties as well, but this is a totally new development and we have to wait until 2015 to see how it’s going to turn out.

    Anyways, I guess teh TL,DR version (which is still TL) is that shifting the major political parties is something that can and does occur – but one of the primary ingredients for it happening is teh complete and total breakdown and suckage of the existing party. Obama’s no GWB so, despite teh craptackular economy, 2012 and 2016 probably aren’t the best opportunities to remake the Democratic party – but is it really a crime against humanity to try?

  175. bbkf said,

    April 17, 2012 at 16:48

    I dunno, in the face of “your vagina, let us shove this wand up it,” Obama doesn’t seem all that bad.

    word, sister…word…

  176. RWW said,

    April 17, 2012 at 16:54

    I never post at rightwing sites. Never. But yesterday, I couldn’t resist and went to Blatt’s Stupid Gay Patriot and replied to his inane strawman by paraphrasing what their great leader told them about the War on Women and making it analogous to the Dems supposed Class War. No personal insults, no name-calling or profanity. Just their own “logic” thrown back in their faces…DELETED! Yay me!

  177. bbkf said,

    April 17, 2012 at 17:19

    This pretty much translates as “We get that America is not a democracy. Fortunately, however, we are able to fix this, because America is a democracy.” Acting as if you live in a multi-party system won’t magically make it so. The practical choices are simple: either work within the system you’ve got, or start building a third party up from the ground, accepting that it will take decades. (Or violent revolution, of course.)

    Want your party to have an actual shot at the Presidency? Having members of it in significant numbers in both Houses would be a good place to start. And you won’t get that without controlling a few state legislatures and probably the odd governorship, and you won’t get THAT without having local authorities under your belt first. A third party could succeed if people just had the patience to begin at the beginning instead of running an egomaniac for president with no base at all.

    eggzakly…

  178. Pupienus said,

    April 17, 2012 at 17:31

    RWW – I suspect that the fuckwit Eric Olsen is at the controls again. For all his faults at least Dan didn’t (in my experience) delete contrary comments. But Eric Olsen is even dumber than Dan and quite the vengeful little prick too. I am not saying he’s so bitter because his prick is so small, mind you, because I have no direct knowledge. It’s just that he is so really really nasty and bitter I just can’t imagine why.

    *You have now heard someone say that Eric Olsen has penis envy.

  179. N__B said,

    April 17, 2012 at 17:34

    eggzakly…

    Vincent? Vincent Price?

  180. bbkf said,

    April 17, 2012 at 17:38

    someone upthread said…be the change you want to see…oddly enough, i just said that to my son this weekend…he’s 22, very cynical and knows it all, so i doubt that it sunk in…but a parent can always dream, right?

    the tagline on all my email and on our website is the words of teddy roosevelt…’do what you can with what you have where you are’…at first i just liked the sound of it and applied it to my personal life…but as i’ve worked for the same non-profit for nearly seven years now, it’s became more of a professional thing…and now, it’s becoming a civic guideline…

    my bubble of facebook has a page dedicated to making our town which has been in economic death throes for well over a decade a ‘thriving’ place once again…it’s mostly filled with bitching about what we don’t have…mostly by a person who apparently hasn’t been out of her house for years and has no clue what’s going on…

    anyhoo, i’ve been involved with our local arts council who is taking it upon itself to make arts an integral part of the economic engine…it’s exhilirating…and scary…and will take time…

    it’s just my small way of contributing to fixing what’s wrong…i would love to also do this politically, but unfortunately i do not live in the city my full-time job is in…and the one who’s political machine is slowly killing it…but i’ve been advocating! i’m tired of people bitching about it and doing nothing…in a city of 2,000 or less people, it doesn’t take much effort to run for mayor…or city council…hell, we even have a state rep out here who is barely drinking age…

    so, be the change you want to see and do what you can with what you have where you are…trite platitudes i know, but still useful…

  181. actor212 (sponsored by Enzyte) said,

    April 17, 2012 at 17:41

    eggzakly…

    Vincent? Vincent Price?

    Or Matt Drudge.

    We report, you decide.

  182. Suezboo said,

    April 17, 2012 at 17:51

    bbkf, word.
    Also, too – think global, act local.

  183. bbkf said,

    April 17, 2012 at 18:01

    Or Matt Drudge.

    eck…take that back!

  184. Major Kong said,

    April 17, 2012 at 18:02

    ( Wakes up like Martin Sheen at the beginning of Apocalypse Now )

    Huntington…….shit……….I’m in Huntington

  185. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 17, 2012 at 18:09

    be the change you want to see and do what you can with what you have where you are

    Here’s the thing – why? Why do WE have to be the ones to make the difference? Run for office, volunteer your time, advocate for your issues, all of that. Why is the onus on us?

    LOL, D-KW’s a big whiner. No, it’s a serious question. Mouthbreathing racist fuckwits have all sorts of people pandering to them. The 27% have some hilariously disproportionate influence on political discourse despite the fact they are obviously delusional.

    If my one issue is that I think Messicans are dirty and should be confined to teh foreign lands they hail from – all I need to do is vote. Especially if I live in Arizona. If my one issue is that I think women shouldn’t control their own bodies because Pope knows best – all I need to do is vote. But if I think that rich aren’t paying enough taxes, or if I think that the folks who lied their way into invading Iraq need to face justice, or if I believe that everybody ought to have access to basic medical care – then I need to be a full-time activist. Why?

    It’s not like those views are less representative of what the average mainstream voter believes. Where did this gaping chasm between viable policy and actual public opinion come from? And how is it that Democracy – apparently “the worst system of government except for all the other ones” – allows such things to happen? Something is broken in the system. I don’t think anyone disagrees with that. And if the problem is with the way things are done – the problem is with the way democracy is implemented – then fixing the system from within and “playing by the rules” or wev – doesn’t that just make it worse?

  186. N__B said,

    April 17, 2012 at 18:22

    ( Wakes up like Martin Sheen at the beginning of Apocalypse Now )

    Time to punch a mirror Francis Ford Coppola.

  187. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 17, 2012 at 18:33

    Anyways, I don’t have any answers. I just want to show my support to people asking the questions. I mean, I really do not want to discourage anyone from making what difference they can in whatever situations they are in – that’s what being human is about. It’s just that I think that there are some serious questions about the fundamentals of why things are the way they are. Questions that should get their time in the open and not shushed because otherwise WILLARD!

    Although a lot of that is because I don’t think Mitt has any chance at all in the General. I was pretty much totes “Speak No Ill of Liberal Hussein Jesus X” when it looked like JiSM had a chance at the button. So, no absolutes or moral truths or nothing. Really just pure opportunism.

  188. Jeffraham Prestonian said,

    April 17, 2012 at 18:57

    Here’s the thing – why? Why do WE have to be the ones to make the difference?

    ‘Cause the fuckin’ evil motherfuckers have all the goddamned MONEY.
    .

  189. bbkf said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:03

    LOL, D-KW’s a big whiner. No, it’s a serious question. Mouthbreathing racist fuckwits have all sorts of people pandering to them. The 27% have some hilariously disproportionate influence on political discourse despite the fact they are obviously delusional.

    i directly blame fox news and the other 24hr cable claptrappers for this…

    Why is the onus on us?

    i have no answer for this because not only is it unfair (although i hate that word) but yeah, the assholes get to call the shots…i guess i just always think about fighting the good fight and taking the high road…and not sitting around with my thumb up my ass bitching about things…which i do plenny of, believe me…but it is a really good question…i guess because someone’s got to be the grown up…the good guy…wev…i know i will now be pondering this…

    And if the problem is with the way things are done – the problem is with the way democracy is implemented – then fixing the system from within and “playing by the rules” or wev – doesn’t that just make it worse?

    i don’t believe so…i mean, somebody’s got to do it…and i think the trick is to play just on the edge of the rules…in my case, we’ll use city resources, but will show the city just HOW things can be changed and that their routine of raise rates and cut services isn’t the answer…

    i dunno, dkw…you’ve made my head hurt and got me thinking way too hard for a tuesday morning…

  190. Jennifer said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:04

    D-KW – It’s both a floor wax AND a dessert topping!

    What we (sometimes) too quickly deride as “purity trolls” are saying has legitimacy, in that yes, the system is very broken, and no, it doesn’t seem to be fixable within the existing framework.

    The problem arises when they then suggest a fix from within the existing framework, i.e. electorally. The system is rigged top to bottom to favor the two entrenched parties; it’s not only resistant to third (or more) parties; it pretty much guarantees that we won’t have them, at least not for more than one or two election cycles in which they might at most gain support from 20% or so of that part of the electorate that actually votes – meaning something like around 7 – 8% of the population.

    That isn’t going to ever fix anything; hell it’s not even enough of a threat to really cause either of the two parties to meaningfully change position or tactics.

    Really fucked-up shit mostly only gets changed quickly & radically for the better by people getting off their asses and breaking windows or burning cars, or alternately, by people refusing to get off their asses until they get what they’re demanding.

    The sad truth is we’ve got two parties, one of which is dedicated to the idea that no one can really win unless everyone else loses, and the other of which doesn’t mind at all that there are winners – and tries to actively help the winners win even more, since they have a financial interest in doing so – but doesn’t think that everyone else should necessarily have to be a loser. To move party the second to the conclusion that everyone should be a winner, even though some will win more than others requires convincing/coercing party the second’s financial sponsors into seeing that it’s in their own best interests that everyone will be a winner. And those sponsors will never see that unless something interrupts the flow of money into their pockets. Until then, they could care fuck-all if you piss off and vote for an independent candidate; the system will take care of that and they will insulate themselves by spreading cash around to both parties – giving more to the one that promises to make other people losers – to make sure that if there are any changes at all, they will either work to their advantage or have minimal impact on their interests.

    In fact, they’ll encourage you to either stay home or vote independent, because that makes it that much more likely that any changes coming down the pike will be ones that redound to their benefit.

  191. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:14

    And then, of course, there’s the trump card: the Supremes. Nothing like the opportunity to influence the third co-equal branch of government to focus one’s thinking.

    And the lower Federal courts also to o&tc.

    Isn’t the Cadre just Fenwick being a troll again? Whatever, I’ll bite:

    For the record: Obama pisses me right the fuck off on a ton of issues. Oh well. I haz a dissapoint. Woe is me. I have absolutely no doubt things would be way worse under a Snowbilly administration.

    The DC establishment’s “bipartisan” fetish and the media’s “both sides do it” fetish are both problems that seem slightly easier to take on rather than trying to build a third party from scratch.

    Have I voted for Green party or Progressive party candidates multiple times in local elections? Damn straight, and I’ll keep doing it. Has it made a difference? Not yet, but you never know. Seems a helluva lot more useful at this level though.

    The only, real, actual, options are him or (last time) McCain/Snowbilly and now Rmoney/”name a tea party idiot here” — I’ll pull the lever fill in the little bubble for Obama no question in that situation. Will I be all happy and thrilled about it? No. Oh fucking well.

  192. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:21

    Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    [snip]

    Although a lot of that is because I don’t think Mitt has any chance at all in the General.

    I wish I was that confident. Rmoney will always be one stupid gaffe away from winning. And don’t discount a Republican state governor/Katherine Harris type shenanigans.

  193. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:26

    Rmoney will always be one stupid gaffe away from winning.

    I can’t see Barry making a mistake that big. Heck, I can’t even imagine a mistake that big. No one likes Willard. Even with the bump from Santorum dropping out wasn’t enough to even him with Kenyan Socialist 9% Unemployment War On Stay-At-Home-Moms.

    Yeah I know, Obama’s still a Democrat, and if they are legendary for anything, it’s snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. But Mitt?!?! Come on.

  194. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:29

    Oh, and to “Portland bound” — don’t let Hillsboro sour you on Oregon. It’s a bit of a strip-mall-laden traffic hell. Obviously it’s close to Portland which is great. A bit to the South and West of Hillsboro though you get into some really pretty wine country where Oregon grows amazing Pinot Noir. Thankfully you don’t have to live in Hillsboro to work there (I’m assuming you’re interviewing at Intel? What else is out there… Nike?) Commuting can kinda suck though depending on where you do choose to live. My dad commuted from Vancouver WA, to Hillsboro for a few years. I have absolutely no idea how he could deal with that drive.

  195. Pryme said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:33

    Heh: http://gawker.com/5902716/cursed-austrian-village-looking-to-reverse-misfortune-with-name-change

  196. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:34

    Yeah I know, Obama’s still a Democrat, and if they are legendary for anything, it’s snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. But Mitt?!?! Come on.

    I think it’s risky to underestimate the stupidity and laziness of the American voter, especially with the media we have. I’ll be nervous until the electoral count actually passes the point of no return.

  197. Major Kong said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:34

    Isn’t the Cadre just Fenwick being a troll again?

    I don’t know, but if they come back I’m going Arc Light on them.

    “We had to destroy the thread in order to save it”

  198. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:37

    Pryme said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:33 (kill)

    Heh: http://gawker.com/5902716/cursed-austrian-village-looking-to-reverse-misfortune-with-name-change

    That’s Fucking funny!

  199. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:39

    “We had to destroy the thread in order to save it”

    Nuke it from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure.

  200. Major Kong said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:42

    That’s Fucking funny!

    Is that anywhere near Intercourse PA?

  201. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:42

    Of course this company is based in Texas.

    If a giant SUV says “I have a tiny penis!” what does a terrorist-proof giant SUV say?

  202. Jennifer said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:44

    If a giant SUV says “I have a tiny penis!” what does a terrorist-proof giant SUV say?

    “…in fact it’s SO tiny that I have to pee sitting down.”

  203. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:45

    For Pup: Ducati is gonna be German!

  204. tsam said,

    April 17, 2012 at 19:59

    Who spilled the douche water all over the floor?

    What the fuck? Why do we have to have this dumbassed fucking conversation every election cycle?

    We have a choice here: Vote for a reasonably competent, Repuke-lite guy who at least isn’t trying to pass bills to mandate an ultrasound rod be crammed up every pregnant woman’s vagina to guilt her into doing what they want and other such fascist shit.

    OR we can go with the guy who has been pandering to reactionary psychos for the last 6 months and hope and pray that he isn’t the fucking fascist his efforts to build an identity suggest that he is.

    OR, you can pick another insane 3rd party fuck up like Nader or Paul or Perot and just strip votes away from the least insane candidate that actually has a chance of winning.

    You don’t HAVE to like it, but the condescension and fake military lingo are only serving to make you look like one of those 3rd party outliers who votes for anybody who cannot possibly win to satisfy your own discomfort with the system.

    We ALL hate the system, dummy. Some of us are just well adjusted enough to act rationally when choosing the president.

  205. bbkf said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:00

    Isn’t the Cadre just Fenwick being a troll again?

    yes, the cadre is fenwick, fenwick is the cadre…but who is keyser soze?

  206. tsam said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:03

    I think it’s risky to underestimate the stupidity and laziness of the American voter, especially with the media we have. I’ll be nervous until the electoral count actually passes the point of no return.

    +1

    I PROMISE you that polls will show Obummer and Rmoney in a statistical tie immediately following the Repig dope show.

  207. Marion in Savannah said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:04

    We ALL hate the system, dummy. Some of us are just well adjusted enough to act rationally when choosing the president.

    This. Twice.

  208. tsam said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:04

    but who is keyser soze?

    1) He does not exist.

    2) Kevin Spacey

    4) YOUR MOM

  209. tsam said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:05

    What?

    Fenwick, goddamnit. You got me all cranked up and speechifying over NOTHING!

  210. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:06

    but who is keyser soze?

    Kevin Spacey. Duh.

  211. Pupienus said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:07

    I just saw The Reuters article saying it was a done deal. Audi did very well with Lambo so I don’t see anything bad happening. It must be fun to be Piech with $10 a year you have to spend.

    Nike is in Beavertron which is even nastier than Hillsboro. Hell, Beavertron makes Hillsboro seem like a nice place. Intel yes, and Analog Devices I think has a foundry there. Yahoo! Has about 2000 folks there. Credence Systems, Synopsys, Epson and Sun Microsystems High-End Operations, TriQuint Semi, Lattice Semiconductor, RadiSys, and Planar Systems.

    The MAX (light rail) runs out there. But I have no idea what its like to commute by MAX all the way out there. There aren’ that many stops so i would guess its very doable and probably a helluva lot better than trying to drive.

    When we lived basically downtown I was friends with a fellow rider who worked there. He commuted by motorpickle. During the bad weather he just went out the Sunset Hwy. In nice weather his commute was quite a bit longer, including some back and forth through the West Hills, skyline drive, etc.

  212. actor212 (sponsored by Enzyte) said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:08

    The system is rigged top to bottom to favor the two entrenched parties

    Define “rigged”.

    Because if you’re suggesting the system will always default towards two parties, well, yea, you’re right. That’s the dynamic of any “winner take all” electoral system: money flows to the winners because money flows to power.

    But to suggest that somehow a third party is being “kept down” is inaccurate.

  213. Pupienus said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:09

    Of fuck you iPad. $10 BILLION …

  214. actor212 (sponsored by Enzyte) said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:09

    I PROMISE you that polls will show Obummer and Rmoney in a statistical tie immediately following the Repig dope show.

    Mitt’s already up by two points.

  215. bbkf said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:10

    4) YOUR MOM

    your mom goes to college…

  216. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:10

    Thanks Pup, I didn’t know there was so much going on out there these days. But:

    Sun Microsystems

    Does not exist anymore. Larry Ellison eated it.

  217. tsam said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:12

    4) YOUR MOM

    your mom goes to college…

    Your mom wears combat boots and eats crackers and cheese.

    BURN!

  218. Fenwick said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:13

    Many thanks, Christopher.

  219. Fenwick said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:22

    Oh, and “in the field”? How militarily pretentious of you.

    I’m a U.S. Army veteran, jerkwad. I was in an enlistee in the first wave of the volunteer military.

  220. Pryme said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:26

    I feel like I’ve come in on Part 3 of this 5-Part Drama, but I think OSB and tsam summed up my basics nicely.

    I will add this: anyone who follows sports knows the difference between those powerhouse perennial post-season teams and the ones who catch lightning in a bottle for a season or two, only to flame out because they lacked the elements of a true regular contender. Politics is a lot like that; a new party needs to have a true infrastructure installed before the two established ones will even begin to sweat.

  221. Pupienus said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:28

    I think that Sun Micro division is still doing their thing. The Sun brand still exists – Oracle calls their hardware “Sun servers.”

  222. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:33

    I think that Sun Micro division is still doing their thing. The Sun brand still exists – Oracle calls their hardware “Sun servers.”

    They’re actively removing the Sun branding — the only ones they still call “Oracle Sun Servers” are the old ones that existed before the purchase. The new ones are “Oracle SPARC” for example.

    Here’s what a recent Solaris machine shows:

    cat /etc/release
    Oracle Solaris 10 9/10 s10x_u9wos_14a X86
    Copyright (c) 2010, Oracle and/or its affiliates. All rights reserved.
    Assembled 11 August 2010

    Don’t get me started on what the new licensing costs and restrictions are. I haz a disappoint.

  223. RWW said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:39

    tsam nailed it at 19:59. Word.

  224. Jennifer said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:48

    But to suggest that somehow a third party is being “kept down” is inaccurate.

    Have you checked the rules regarding ballot access in most of the states?

  225. Fenwick said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:50

    I like Bernie Sanders.

    I mean, I don’t want to intervene in internecine warfare but isn’t he a socialist who jumped into the system really successfully?

    I wrote in Bernie Sanders in 2008. Gonna write him this year, too.

  226. Pupienus said,

    April 17, 2012 at 20:55

    I just read “The Space Merchants” for the first time in nearly 40 years. Reading this thread this morning reminds me of Fowler Schocken vs. Taunton as Dem vs. Rep. Awesome.

  227. Pryme said,

    April 17, 2012 at 21:29

    Seriously; the fuck? http://daveawayfromhome.blogspot.com/2012/04/ha.html

  228. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    April 17, 2012 at 21:33

    FYI: There’s a new thread…

  229. Fenwick said,

    April 17, 2012 at 21:35

    I’m genuinely surprised that only bbfk knew that Fenwick = Guerilla Voters Cadre 18. I know I’ve included ‘Comrade Fenwick’ within the Cadre’s comments any number of times. Perhaps only bbfk was really paying attention.

    If the Major–whom, as he should know, I esteem highly–really wants to go all Arc Light, that still won’t prevent Cadre 18 from returning. Insurgencies are hard to eradicate with air power…..

    If Guerilla Voters are too unsettling to anyone’s delicate political senses, go ahead and set up a kill-file. (Even that won’t kill us off; it will only kill speech about a legitimate political point of view that you don’t want to hear.)

    As I mentioned above, I’m not alone. Over the years, I have recruited four comrades other comrades. Smallish army, to be sure, but we’re dedicated. I’m still trying to peel away my brothers and sisters. (Katharine is close to coming over, I think.)

    Also, remember my comment about how to deal with Wingnut Relatives? I recommended focusing on the young folks. As part of it, I make sure to cast scorn and derision on the Two-Party system.

    Boiled down to first principles, the Two-Party system is largely a byproduct of an idiotic system of government. Ever wonder why every other advanced country in the world uses a parliamentary system? Ever wonder why our ‘nation-building’ government models are always parliamentary? We didn’t recommend a Senate and a House and an Electoral College to Germany or Japan or Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan. The US government structure is stupid beyond belief.

    I want to go to the Electoral College and earn a degree in Imaginary Numbers.

    Okay, that’s it. Fenwick / Cadre 18 signing off. I’m going to take a sabbatical from Sadlyville and its hostility for a week. We [plural]
    will be back next Tuesday.

    Have fun !!!!

  230. Whale Chowder said,

    April 17, 2012 at 21:51

    I’m going to take a sabbatical from Sadlyville and its hostility for a week.

    Not that anybody’s paying attention anymore, but someone who makes big, broad-brush-stroke statements that all but accuse other people of being dumb for disagreeing with them should probably not be surprised to encounter hostility as a result.

    But go on and nurse your butthurt. I can hardly wait for your next update.

  231. Major Kong said,

    April 17, 2012 at 21:58

    Fenwick – We’re totally evil, granted, but most of what goes on around here is just good-natured ribbing.

  232. Substance McGravitas said,

    April 17, 2012 at 21:59

    Fenwick’s trolled before, he’ll troll again. The whole Fenwick persona seems like performance art in itself.

  233. tigris said,

    April 17, 2012 at 22:10

    Yep! And also a really excellent example because he targeted the lower levels of power. His primary issue is, well, there’s just the one of him. Bit of a lonely caucus. Still, he has the right idea.

    The brass ring of Presidency is a mug’s game.

    I wish Jill Stein would run for office lower than governor for a change. She’d much more likely win a state or US representative office. Sure, they’re lower power offices but not less than the office she’s got now. I also wish Ed Markey or Michael Capuano would run against John fucking Kerry.

  234. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    April 17, 2012 at 22:19

    I’m genuinely surprised that only bbfk knew that Fenwick = Guerilla Voters Cadre 18.

    I knew.

    Boiled down to first principles, the Two-Party system is largely a byproduct of an idiotic system of government. Ever wonder why every other advanced country in the world uses a parliamentary system? Ever wonder why our ‘nation-building’ government models are always parliamentary? We didn’t recommend a Senate and a House and an Electoral College to Germany or Japan or Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan. The US government structure is stupid beyond belief.

    I don’t think you’ll get any disagreement on this. What you will get is disagreement that you and your four friends writing in “Bernie Sanders” for president while deriding others for not doing so gets you anywhere closer to a parliamentary system then just yelling in the mirror.

    Granted, voting for Obama isn’t going to get us a parliament either, but pretending voting one way that gets you demonstrably nothing is pure and just but voting another way that gets very slightly more than that is evil just seems silly.

    America will not have a parliament, probably ever. Will it have more than two viable parties? Seems unlikely, but if it were to happen, it certainly won’t happen in my lifetime or yours. What do we do in the meantime? I say try to elect more and better liberals, whatever the party, at the local and state level (for now) but I’m open to other suggestions. Am I happy about the current situation? Of course not, but until we come up with things we can, you know, actually do and that make a difference, it’s gonna be an unhappy situation.

    Oh, and you know what: I fell for this shit and voted for Nader in 2000. I was in a “safe” blue state so I figured what the hell. Gore won the state so it didn’t make a damn bit of difference. It also didn’t make me feel particularly good, and certainly didn’t help anything, so fuck that shit.

  235. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    April 17, 2012 at 22:22

    Fenwick’s trolled before, he’ll troll again. The whole Fenwick persona seems like performance art in itself.

    Yes, this too. I normally don’t stoop to feeding him, but knowing this thread is dead already I figured it couldn’t hurt.

  236. vacuumslayer said,

    April 17, 2012 at 22:23

    I knew.

  237. RWW said,

    April 17, 2012 at 22:52

    I didn’t know Cadre = Fenwick. Oh well, I got nothing against the guy. Here’s what I say to disappointed liberal friends who want to pain me by telling me they refuse to vote for Obama: i’m not Obama’s fucking campaign manager. Vote for whoever the fuck you want and let me do the same.

    By the way, Bernie Sanders is the only candidate I’ve given a donation to in the last 10 years. I’ve been a card carrying Dem for over 30 years and do not give to the party any more.

  238. jim, Guerilla Reality 101 Delivery-Bastard said,

    April 17, 2012 at 23:17

    Why is the onus on us?

    You exhibit the bad taste of holding views not conducive to increasing the GNP.

    Exchange them for views friendlier to The Bottom Line, & a vote every few years is the only action you’ll have to worry about … I mean, as long as you snuff it before the Shit & the Fan REALLY get into party mode.

    Try this on for size: Think interdependantly, vote interdependantly.

    “They’re all teh same” doesn’t pass the laugh-test. Plenty of folks in Baghdad can tell you just how UNalike Dems & Repubs are … & they can show you the empty seats at their family gatherings to prove it. Today much of the GOP admits pulling combat forces out was the right move, but at the time they were equating it with Chamberlain appeasing Hitler.

    The difference on Iran is night & day … & Iran has mutual defence pacts with both Russia & China. Wanna see how the GOP’s version of this movie ends? Picture the famous V-E kiss in Times Square, but with the sailor & his girlfriend replaced by two cockroaches making out atop a pile of glowing rubble … for FREEDOM!

    Or this: right now Obama is doing yeoman’s work in systematically locking down loose fissionable material worldwide. A GOP Prez would kill that program deader than Elvis … unless they quietly morphed it into a WalMart of discount nuke goodies for business-friendly dictators or whoever’s got the cash. Of course, I’m just a raving lunatic, because obviously a batshit-crazy scenario like that could never ever happen … again.

    Important as they are, the votes that choose government leaders don’t make as much real-world impact as the primary votes that choose candidates, because the system of governance is (rightly) restrictive. I think OWS is going to remain a sideshow until they learn to use this valuable lesson as demonstrated by the Teabaggers in 2009-2010.

    Many hardcore neocons (& the fanboys who love them) are quite willing to spike Romney in 2012 in favour of a more agenda-committed candidate in 2016, because they know Obama can’t run three times & nobody else is on the horizon in the Democratic Party who’s anywhere near as charismatic, & that by 2016 Americans will want a new party in charge … short-term pain for long-term gain. Crazy … just like the Moral Majority was crazy thinking it could change America one school board at a time.

    BONUS POLI-SCI THESIS: Dubya did his most severe damage to the Republicans, not by his policies (they can forgive & forget an infinity of clusterfucks) but by introducing & popularizing the whole Unitary Executive, top-down, Big Daddy Will Save Us model of politicking.

  239. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    April 17, 2012 at 23:56

    What you will get is disagreement that you and your four friends writing in “Bernie Sanders” for president while deriding others for not doing so gets you anywhere closer to a parliamentary system then just yelling in the mirror.

    This, basically. I could’ve voted for the CPUSA every four years as some symbolic gesture, but frankly eight years of George W. Bush as my formative electoral experience kicked the symbolism out of me. I choose bad politicians because my other practical choice is bad people. It doesn’t mean I like it, hell, I’m advising people on Sadly, No! whose rhetoric I just find tiring to run for office instead. I just fail to see other options than sit out of the system like I’m fucking expected to.

    The less young people voting, the more this country is in the hold of old fuckers still fighting Karl Marx and commies under their bedspreads. The current state of affairs relies on young voters becoming so upset with the two-party system that they sit out of it. So fuck that, I vote and vote regularly.

  240. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    April 18, 2012 at 3:09

    tsam said,
    April 17, 2012 at 19:59

    Who spilled the douche water all over the floor?

    What the fuck? Why do we have to have this dumbassed fucking conversation every election cycle?

    We ALL hate the system, dummy. Some of us are just well adjusted enough to act rationally when choosing the president.

    How’s that working for ya, tsam?

    Can you imagine how pathetic it sounds to hear someone say “Just shut up and vote for the right-wing Democrat” after the last 30 years, and in particular, the last three?

    This is exactly what cynical shits like Obama and company are relying on when they bail out the bankers and leave the rest of the population twisting in the breeze…because “moral hazard”.

    There’s nothing typical about what’s happened since Bush and Cheney took over the country after losing the popular vote. People voted AGAINST that shit in 2006 and 2008.

    And for that we’ve got President Drone Strike. And the sad little cowards making excuses for him.
    ~

  241. redwoods said,

    April 18, 2012 at 3:38

    Fuck you guy. You’re XY, so the shit that gets doled out on those of us presenting as “lady” means literally nothing, huh? Fuck you and your fake-ass “independent” front. Who cares if the numerical majority can’t get preventative medicine or outpatient surgery without fucking permission or at ALL. Who cares if the majority can’t get equal pay? Doesn’t hurt you, so you don’t care! You’re not progressive or left or anything, you’re just some poseur willing to stuff women under the bus so you get your way on wiretapping. “Shut up, who cares if they want to stuff an ultrasound wand up inside of you, drones in other countries argleblarge?!???!!”. FUCK YOU.

  242. Substance McGravitas said,

    April 18, 2012 at 3:38

    Vote for Roseanne!

  243. A meddling kid said,

    April 18, 2012 at 5:15

    Substance McGravitas said,
    April 17, 2012 at 21:59

    Fenwick’s trolled before, he’ll troll again. The whole Fenwick persona seems like performance art in itself.

    hmmmm….
    Surely the meta master wouldn’t return to the scene so soon.

    Unless…
    My god! Convert the phlebotomist!

  244. Christopher said,

    April 18, 2012 at 6:42

    So, politically, what you have is triage and math. Incumbent kills x amount of American citizens through secret tribunals, plus y amount of foreign citizens through military activity. Opposition has potential to kill x amount, plus y amount, plus z amount of to be determined. Solve for vote.

    Honestly? I feel like the language you’re using here papers over what’s going on here.

    Killing Anwar Al-Awlaki (And the other handful of Americans, one of them 16 years old) was a clear, indisputable violation of his 5th amendment rights, and likely his 1st and 4th amendment rights too.

    What you’re saying is, look, we have to accept that every president is going to break the highest laws in the country, because he needs to in order to murder as many people as he wants to. I say “murder” because that’s what it is when you illegally kill somebody.

    That is terrifying. To me, the fact that every President is essentially a serial killer, and the only question we’re being asked is whether we imagine the other guy will be an even more successful serial killer means that there is no sense in participating in Presidential politics. There are some lines you just do not cross. When the death camps open I’m not going to choose the guy who wants to kill the Jews because he’s better than the guy who’s trying to kill the Jews AND the homosexuals. There are some evils so great that it’s senseless to pick out the lesser one.

    If you disagree, what-ev, but my position deserves respect. I’m not taking it because I think it makes me better than you, somehow.

  245. Oregon Beer Snob said,

    April 18, 2012 at 19:10

    Christopher, I’m totally with you on the nasty, horrid, ridiculousness of “constitutional scholar” Obama doing nasty clearly unconstitutional shit. It’s horrible.

    You and I can’t do anything about it. The only real option is Rmoney. Do you think he’ll be better? If he promises to stop that stuff will you vote for him, despite all the other horrid shit you know he’ll do? Or do you want to impeach Obama? Do you think Biden will discontinue these practices? Impeach him too? OK, how will President Boehner do?

    What are our options?

    The only thing I see to do is vote. So don’t vote for Obama. No problem, you have other options.

    I’ll vote too.

    Oh and I will note, apropos of nothing, that Fenwick aka Cadre was fully in support of Obama’s extra-legal-probably-unconstitutional involvement in Libya. Strange bedfellows and all that.

    And:

    ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    April 18, 2012 at 3:09 (kill)

    How’s that working for ya, tsam?

    I know you asked tsam, but, yeah, it’s not working all that great, in several nasty ways — bankers, war, extrajudicial killing, etc. We aren’t yet at war with Iran, which I guess is a plus. Made some weak, tepid, progress on healthcare, that may or may not actually go into effect and do any good. Gay rights are definitely improving. But yeah, not exactly a glowing liberal system.

    In all seriousness, what do you want me to do about it? If not voting for Obama is your only suggestion, I’m just not really getting how that’s going to help — explain it to me. I’m not trying to stop you from doing whatever you feel is right. I would also like to know what we can do to improve things, ’cause I’m not happy with the status quo either.

  246. Hugh Trawl said,

    April 18, 2012 at 22:30

    The ideology of too many on the Left in the Anglophone world is Marxism-Onanism

  247. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    April 19, 2012 at 2:46

    If you disagree, what-ev, but my position deserves respect.

    I don’t disagree with the notion, I just feel it’s hopeless to expect change on it so long as the United States has a military which the President is regarded as “commander-in-chief” of. So long as the United States has the capacity to, and willingness to commit to, war in all its myriad forms, the President is going to be responsible for killing people regardless of their basic human rights or the amendments to our Constitution or the commandments of the Lord.

    If you want to throw out terms like “serial killer”, or comparisons to Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union to show the cold black road this all leads down, great, whatever, all I’m saying is, the only distinction between the al-Awlaki case and the other dozen or so cases of targeted drone attacks killing people is al-Awlaki was born in the U.S. instead of wherever.

    And frankly, with the CIA involved, I’m generally uncertain of that one too.

  248. not a gator said,

    April 19, 2012 at 11:32

    Rww: Just their own “logic” thrown back in their faces…DELETED! Yay me!

    Well, on the plus side, he probably popped a blood vessel before he read enough to delete it. Or at least you raised his blood pressure. I’m thinking you notched up his self-loathing that day to the point that his bedtime wank ended in failure and tears (the extra shots he consumed to chase away the wolf didn’t hurt).

  249. not a gator said,

    April 19, 2012 at 11:44

    redwoods said,

    “Shut up, who cares if they want to stuff an ultrasound wand up inside of you, drones in other countries argleblarge?!???!!”. FUCK YOU.

    Totally late, but: WORD.

    Ten years ago, it would have been gay rights. We’re talking about authoritarians, 27%ers. IT’S ALWAYS SOMETHING. But you’re a middle-class or up white male of the gentile persuasion who claims to be a Commie so he can pretend to be a victim of something… They never get around to coming for you. Enjoy your monsters in the closet… and fuck you for every election you sat out or emoprogged up that led to ME losing some OF MY CIVIL RIGHTS.

    FUCK YOU SIDEWAYS.

  250. not a gator said,

    April 19, 2012 at 11:47

    Killing Anwar Al-Awlaki (And the other handful of Americans, one of them 16 years old) was a clear, indisputable violation of his 5th amendment rights, and likely his 1st and 4th amendment rights too.

    Yeah, so horrible, except for the part where he committed treason against the United States (which carries the death penalty, does it not?) and was engaged in warfare against the United States. Perhaps you dispute that, but there’s no question that’s how the government saw it.

  251. not a gator said,

    April 19, 2012 at 11:53

    Obama is not going to be able to tear down the system. He inspired many of us, sure. But it’s only going to change if we force it to change. Obama came into office and things almost immediately went back to politics as usual. Obama voters went home and Republicans, once they recovered from their heads exploding, went back to work undermining the Republic.

    There’s a lot of talk in this thread about Obama, as if the local races don’t matter. The local races do matter. Heck, they’re pretty much the whole game.

    Talk is cheap. Fenwick’s laziness in ranting about every else’s perceived faults while proudly writing in joke presidential candidates and sidestepping every comment about lower races speaks for itself.

    FWIW, our last zone coordinator was like that, talking all this big shit about the coming social revolution but never answering calls when you needed to organize a group to lobby the state capitol. Well, shit’s gotten serious, now, and the AFL-CIO got rid of him and replaced him with a kid who actually does ORGANIZING. Fuck. Yeah.

  252. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    April 19, 2012 at 13:06

    The local races do matter. Heck, they’re pretty much the whole game.

    On analysis, this is actually the whole truth of the matter. It’s been four years, and overall, pretty much every last single domestic catastrophuck has been the direct result of state governors and state senates deciding to fuck with some person or another.

Leave a Comment

  • Things of Interest

  • Meta Goodness

  • Clunkers

  • httpbl_stats()