Dec
8

Take My Hostage … Please!




Posted at 21:25 by D. Aristophanes

Yesterday, according to President Obama, ‘the middle-class tax cuts were being held hostage [by the GOP] to the high-end tax cuts’.

Today, as he sends Biden out to muscle House Dems into ramming through the compromised tax bill, it’s Obama who’s holding the middle-class tax cuts hostage — and the extension of unemployment benefits to boot.

I mean, is there any other way to interpret this turn of events? Because look — it may well be that this is the best deal we can get this late in the game in a lame duck session. Fine. Shit sandwich at table 3, please. But I’m getting pretty sick of hearing from people, in so many shapes and forms, that those of us who are goddamn pissed off at this turn of events don’t give a shit about all the people whose UI is running out.

That’s hostage-taking, too — and people need to STFU about it.

259 Comments »

  1. Snort said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:30

    See, if we give in for the little people, we’re the good guys, yet we still keep the the combine churning for “the way it should be.” and don’t piss of scary Republicans.

  2. owlbear1 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:35

    If the economy isn’t roaring again in six months do we get to take it out on rich people?

  3. Snort said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:35

    Plus,also too, the genius of it is if we give in to the Goopers for two years, then their control of Congress will be stronger, which will be to our advantage.

    (looks up meaning of insanity)

  4. DocAmazing said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:36

    It really and truly did not have to be this way, and the fact that things got this bad was (in part) Obama’s fault.

    The centrists who keep trying to sell the shit sandwich need to cop to that. We’re all pretty tired of hearing about “purity trolling” and “fuck the purists”. Pre-emptive compromise (you know, what used to be called “capitulation”) doesn’t work, no matter how loudly you demand that we applaud.

  5. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:36

    If the economy isn’t roaring again in six months do we get to take it out on rich people?

    No.

  6. Steerpike said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:40

    Odd how little trolling there’s been on this subject the last few days, innit?

    Must be hard to gloat about how their boyz managed to rescue tax cuts for bajillionaires, when they were supposed to be all deficit-hawky, what? just a couple weeks ago.

  7. Snort said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:40

    If the economy isn’t roaring again in six months do we get to take it out on rich people?

    Double no. Cuts in services and benefits. Shit sammichs alla round.

  8. owlbear1 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:40

    No.

    Yeah, kinda figured that since they’ve never been asked to account for the Billions they’ve already gotten.

  9. Chris said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:40

    But I’m getting pretty sick of hearing from people, in so many shapes and forms, that those of us who are goddamn pissed off at this turn of events don’t give a shit about all the people whose UI is running out.

    And that’s why I don’t post much at Balloon Juice. Too many of those pricks around.

  10. Chris said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:43

    Must be hard to gloat about how their boyz managed to rescue tax cuts for bajillionaires, when they were supposed to be all deficit-hawky, what? just a couple weeks ago.

    Oh, they’re all busy gloating back at PJM and their other web-sewers.

  11. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:43

    Yeah, kinda figured that since they’ve never been asked to account for the Billions they’ve already gotten.

    Yeah, I kinda wanted to say something funneh or insightful or maybe something about someone’s mom but I gots nothing.

  12. Pupienus Maximus said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:44

    SHUT UP AND EAT YOUR SHIT SAMMICH!

  13. owlbear1 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:46

    Lunch Lady? Is that you?

  14. Pupienus Maximus said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:47

    There are starving children in Haiti who would be happy to have that shit sandwich.

    What’s that? Oh, yes of course.

    There are starving children in Haiti Africa who would be happy to have that shit sandwich.

  15. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:47

    And that’s why I don’t post much at Balloon Juice.

    I thought it was because we’re actually funny here. Snap.

  16. smedley said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:50

    I think El Cid has taken up permanent residence at B-J. He has lost his sense of humor.

  17. New cat food connoisseur said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:53

    If the economy isn’t roaring again in six months do we get to take it out on rich people?

    Double no. Cuts in services and benefits. Shit sammichs alla round.

    Oh, goody! The cost of Medicare Part B just went up about $25 a month! The tuna flavor Friskies is yummy — and still fits my budget.

  18. Substitute Lunch Lady said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:54

    Sorry kid, shit sandwiches is all we’re ever going to have.

  19. El Cid said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:54

    Apart from whatever way Obama handled this, it is factually true that the attempt to renew taxcuts only for the first $250K of income would not have passed in the Senate.

    Not only did all the Republicans vow to filibuster, a number of ‘conservative’ Democratic Senators wouldn’t either.

    It just wasn’t going to happen.

    And what’s worse, the increased tax cuts on marginal incomes over $250K will never, ever, ever be allowed to expire, at least not in any foreseeable future.

  20. Whale Chowder said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:55

    That’s hostage-taking, too — and people need to STFU about it.

    Well, no. That’s arguing a side of the issue, honestly enough, which is exactly what the Republicans weren’t doing. You don’t like the argument, I get that, but you aren’t being shut out of the discussion and neither should the other side be.

    What I don’t like is being called a whiny crybaby for wishing he’d have put half the effort into rallying the troops to pass what we wanted that he’s started putting into passing what the fucking Republicans want. Where was Biden over the last 3 weeks? Why wasn’t he on Capitol Hill twisting arms then, huh?

  21. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:56

    I thought it was because we’re actually funny here. Snap.

    Ooooh, burn. We really could use some pet pictures around here, though.

    I’m with you, DA. Just how large and runny and disease-laden does the shit sandwich have to be before “sensible Democrats” start at least asking for some mayo or at least Miracle Whip on that bitch?

  22. DrDick said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:57

    I thought the federal government had a policy of not negotiating with hostage takers because it just encourages more hostage taking. Seems somebody forgot to tell Obama.

  23. vacuumslayer said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:58


    Sorry kid, shit sandwiches is all we’re ever going to have.”

    Can I at least get some milk to wash it down?
    Or are the cows holding the milk hostage til they feel “sure” about their taxes?

  24. bay of arizona said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:59

    The debt ceiling needs to be increased before March. I see no reason why republicans wouldn’t hold more hostages and force the repeal of all the good things in this bill, or counteract any supposed stimulus contained by forcing draconian cuts in food stamps or whatever.

    And the “temporary” payroll tax cut is a back door way of gutting social security.

  25. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    December 8, 2010 at 21:59

    I thought the federal government had a policy of not negotiating with hostage takers because it just encourages more hostage taking. Seems somebody forgot to tell Obama.

    Apparently. He also seems to be unaware that “negotiating” entails starting with everything you want and making concessions as needed, not saying, “Okay, we’ll do what you want, guys. Can we pretty please have something in return?”

  26. Chris said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:01

    Can I at least get some milk to wash it down?

    Sorry. Milk is going for 1 round of tax cuts a gallon these days.

    Or are the cows holding the milk hostage til they feel “sure” about their taxes?

    Damn! Beat me to it.

  27. Coach Urban Meyer said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:01

    That’s it.

    I quit. Again. For real, this time!

  28. Dain Brammaged said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:02

    This was Obama’s chance to split the issues. He could have forced the Republicans and their Blue dog enablers to vote on the UI extensions before the end of the month. By doing this, he could have held the upcoming end of the Bush Tax cuts as the carrot. Instead, just like dumping the Single Payer plans from the Health Care proposals before beginning negotiations, he has given away the high ground and given the minority party the strong hand. While I do not wish to extend those dependent on UI any additional pain, much of what you are going through is the direct result of this horrid supply side nonsense that has cause our treasury to go from surplus to depression inducing deficit. I, like the majority of Americans who anyone bothers to ask, would gladly surrender the meager middle class tax benefits from Bush’s tax cuts in order to get our debt back to black. I support any congress critter’s attempt to scuttle this compromise. Which is central to my point.

  29. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:03

    If the economy isn’t roaring again in six months do we get to take it out on rich people?

    I’m buying guns with my Christmas bonus.

    Guns from Israel.

  30. Brett Favre said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:03

    I quit too!! For realzies this time. But first here are some pictures of my penis.

  31. Chris said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:04

    He also seems to be unaware that “negotiating” entails starting with more than you actually want, so when the bargaining phase rolls around, you have concessions to offer that you don’t actually mind conceding

    Fixed. I wish Obama were an Arab. The street markets in the Middle East will teach you those basic facts as a child.

  32. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:05

    Y’know, there is a lesson to us liberals here:

    NEVER take an election for granted. Ever again.

    The Republicans have fucked their base for thirty years, and only now are the chickens coming home to roost on them.

    Us? 2012 ought to be either a bloodbath or an acknowledgement by Obama and the Dems that they owe us for sticking by them.

  33. Pupienus Maximus said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:08

    It has to be Utah. We have to invade Utah.

  34. vacuumslayer said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:08

    “Republicans have fucked their base for thirty years,”

    Ya think? In what way?

  35. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:10

    El Cid – so at what point do you say, enough? In two years, it’s going to be even tougher to roll back the Bush (now Obama) tax cuts for the rich, for election year reasons and because undoubtedly the hostages will be even more of the American people by that time. And forgive me if I don’t get too excited when Obama promises that in a couple of years he’s really going to kick the shit out of the can that he just kicked two years down the road. Grrr – tough guy! Everybody who actually wants to take the Goopers head-on right now is a big softy compared to him!

    Look, compromise is not a dirty word, it’s just that further teaching Republicans that tossing in the most meager of sweeteners to their offers at the negotiating table isn’t compromise. It’s capitulation.

    WC – not sure what you’re getting at. The Republicans seem like they were pretty honest to me – they want massive tax cuts for the rich and they’ll throw a few crumbs to the poor to get them.

  36. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:10

    Ya think? In what way?

    Did I sleep thru Roe v Wade being overturned? Did I miss that deficits have increased only under Republican Presidents (even Obama has actually reduced his)?

  37. bay of arizona said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:10

    “Republicans have fucked their base for thirty years,”

    Ya think? In what way?

    Failure to repeal the 15th and 19th Amendments?

  38. vacuumslayer said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:13

    I’ll give you Roe v. Wade, but no Repuke genuinely cares about the deficit…unless there’s a dem in the White House.

  39. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:15

    Decimated the economic base of red states by encouraging massive amounts of offshoring and agribusiness takeover?

  40. smedley said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:15

    OK. I got El Cid back. Let me go for a double. Where’s the goddamn Batman?

  41. tigris said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:17

    If the economy isn’t roaring again in six months do we get to take it out on rich people?

    Some of the free-range ones might be worth keeping, but the ones in Congress will be fair game.

  42. smedley said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:19

    “If the economy isn’t roaring again in six months do we get to take it out on rich people?”

    No. The goalposts are on wheels.

  43. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:21

    I’ll give you Roe v. Wade, but no Repuke genuinely cares about the deficit…unless there’s a dem in the White House.

    The original Teabaggers started under Bush and the bank bailouts. It was co-opted by Dick Armey to become a partisan movement against Dems.

  44. jim said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:21

    I said yesterday that I thought the GOP were chumps for negotiating with Obama. Let the record show that I screwed the poodle.

    I still think it may have a downside for them in 2012 – but they sure did steal his lunch-money on this.

    His own Congressvermin are ready to throat-punch their grandmas, they’re so utterly fucking apoplectic about this clusterfuck. Obama’s solution? Go on national TeeVee & make sure everyone can see you pouting like a goth-girl on the rag who’s just found out that The Cure are putting out a polka album, as you drop-kick progressives in the teeth YET AGAIN … because surely spitting on your most ardent supporters can’t have a downside, right? Nice to know he’s gotten the message from the beatdown he took a whole month ago after doing just that. Bonus points for the public-option analogy – surely there can be no downside to ripping the freshly-formed scab off that massive self-inflicted trauma & rubbing it with rancid bologna.

    The Buck Stops Here At Those Loathsome Lefty Scum Who Keep Having Good Ideas, apparently.

    Because there’s no chance that the GOP would’ve caved on UI extensions like they always do, especially not right before they TAEK BACK OWR KUNTRY because bipartisanship hope change blart!

  45. internal exile said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:23

    Right, like the rich people who own congress were going to give up ground. As if Obama wasn’t hired to do exactly their bidding. Like his whole “yes we can” charade was anything but window dressing among further headlong flight to oligarchic plutocracy. I entertained no illusions right from the beginning. Go ahead and look back in the archives. I always knew McCain was run for this very reason. To get a Dim in there to deflect opposition, let the burst bubble get blamed on the Dims, upon whence the Pugs could sashay back as if they were saving the day. Worked like a charm.

    I wiped my ass with my 2008 ballot. I see no reason to do anything differently until we really do get a choice, which I suspect we will never see at the US ballot box, the oligarchs have sealed that deal.

    Go ahead and make a bunch of smarmy comments. Keep losing. Know weakness. Know disappointment. Better yet, just ignore me. It’s a lot more fun to make witty comments about some dipshit righty who spewed ignorance on some blog. But as for me, I see nothing coming from the Dims nor will I ever expect anything from that quarter again.

    Is the US merely a late stage empire with all the decay, corruption, centralization of power, over-militarization and moribundity implied in that phase? Sadly, yes.

  46. Chris said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:23

    I’ll give you Roe v. Wade, but no Repuke genuinely cares about the deficit…unless there’s a dem in the White House.

    I don’t even know if I’d give Roe v. Wade. The dedicated social conservatives care, but there aren’t as many of them as you’d think.

    I think for a lot of the base, the symbol of sticking it to the other guy (who that is varies depending on which part of the party you’re talking to) matters more than any actual policy the party might pursue when in power. Makes it a lot easier for conservative politicians to keep ignoring campaign promises or switching positions.

  47. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:24

    WC – further to my disagreement of you on what constitutes ‘hostage-taking’. I am willing to respect that proponents of the compromise believe that the UI extension and other tidbits in the compromise add up to a better deal for the American people at this time than letting all the Bush tax cuts expire with no deal on UI and the other tidbits forthcoming (the worst-case scenario for not passing the compromise).

    I would also expect that proponents would respect my position that it is very possible that extending the Bush tax cuts for the rich will lead to a WORSE situation for the country, even with the pro-poor, working and middle class people nuggets thrown into the compromise. And that it still could be possible to salvage some or all of those nuggets even if the compromise gets killed.

    What is not acceptable – and which I describe here as ‘hostage-taking’ – is when compromise proponents scream ‘fuck you – you don’t care about people on UI and poor people and the middle class’ if you have reservations about the compromise! Because it is not at all crystal clear that the compromise offers a quantitatively better deal for the American people and the American economy than the worst-case scenario resulting from not passing it. In the short term, yes. In the longer term, the compromise could actually be a whole helluva lot worse for the bottom 80 percent of earners than letting it die.

  48. See Nick Overlook said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:25

    Shortly after Jesse Ventura left office, his press secretary, John Wodele got a short-lived morning gig on local talk radio. It was in this context that I heard him relate an anecdote about meeting with President Clinton and pressing him on the need for a welfare reform bill. Billy Jeff’s response was, “Well, maybe now that we have a Republican congress…”
    We aren’t the Democrats’ base any more than the rabid theocrats are the Republicans’ base. The big money corporate campaign contributors are the base. Everybody else is merely a patsy.

  49. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:26

    Whoa, finally recovering from my big beer and spleen night…

    Must be hard to gloat about how their boyz managed to rescue tax cuts for bajillionaires, when they were supposed to be all deficit-hawky, what? just a couple weeks ago.

    Cognitive dissonance is the cornerstone of, and prerequisite for, the wingnut mindset.

    The Republicans have fucked their base for thirty years, and only now are the chickens coming home to roost on them.

    And they are convinced that “socialism” is to blame for it, so they continue to despise the Democrats. We’re not talking about smart people here.

  50. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:31

    Go ahead and make a bunch of smarmy comments.

    So lemme see…vote Democrat and sell out or vote…what?…and waste your fuckign vote and have no say in what goes on AND have no one take you seriously?

    Asshat.

  51. Mysticdog said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:32

    Apart from whatever way Obama handled this, it is factually true that the attempt to renew taxcuts only for the first $250K of income would not have passed in the Senate.

    It is factually true that by conceding without a fight, it encourages more of the same. It is factually true that by failing to attempt putting any pressure on those senators, either through political arm twisting OR simply fiercely advocating a responsible ideology, we will never know if we could have got responsible legislation and the bulk of the public still does not understand what the battle is even about. It is factually true that in two years, Obama has not once shown any advocacy for responsible liberal economic policy, and has instead embraced the neoliberal belief that making rich people richer is the best way to help the middle class and poor. It is factually true that he has again punted the ball on second down, just far enough that the exact same issues he did not have the will to fight for in the 2010 elections will be front and center during his relection campaign.

  52. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:35

    Must be hard to gloat about how their boyz managed to rescue tax cuts for bajillionaires, when they were supposed to be all deficit-hawky, what? just a couple weeks ago.

    Cognitive dissonance is the cornerstone of, and prerequisite for, the wingnut mindset.

    More specifically, ‘baggers do not actually consider the level of tax revenues to be an ingredient in any attempt at deficit reduction because to them it is not an actual, instrumental part of the federal budget but rather ‘my money that the lie-bruls steal from me’.

  53. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:36

    Better yet, just ignore me.

    Your wish is my command.

  54. Mysticdog said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:37

    The Republicans have fucked their base for thirty years, and only now are the chickens coming home to roost on them.

    I could argue they have given their base exactly what they wanted – an enemy to hate and the same fights over and over again so they don’t have to think too much about new ones. If their base /really/ wanted results, they would have to be very upset at this point, but honestly, they don’t care that much. They want someone to blame, someone to hate, and someone to coddle them and tell them that none of their problems are their fault, but that everyone else deserves the misfortunes they recieve.

  55. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:37

    I am willing to respect that proponents of the compromise believe that the UI extension and other tidbits in the compromise add up to a better deal for the American people at this time than letting all the Bush tax cuts expire with no deal on UI and the other tidbits forthcoming (the worst-case scenario for not passing the compromise).

    I still want an explanation why these had to be linked issues.

  56. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:37

    What is not acceptable – and which I describe here as ‘hostage-taking’ – is when compromise proponents scream ‘fuck you – you don’t care about people on UI and poor people and the middle class’ if you have reservations about the compromise!

    The same shit happened with the healthcare bill. People were like, “Um, dudes, this thing blows,” and the response was “YOU DON’T CARE ABOUT PEOPLE WITH CHRONIC CONDITIONS AND PEOPLE WHO DON’T HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE!”

    Um, no. I have chronic conditions and I lived without health insurance for a couple of years. I know it sucks. I’ve stayed at a job that I’ve hated for years because it offers health insurance and I can’t afford to be without, and worked full-time while going to grad school because I knew that any insurance I could afford wouldn’t be enough for me.

    I was also a member of a family who had to deal with two lay-offs, both of which lasted months. These were in better economies, and weren’t long term, so I realize they’re different, but I understand some of the stress and fear and feel lucky that I didn’t have children to support and had family to lean on.

    Anyway, my point is that kind of shit pisses me off, as does the assumption that anyone who won’t settle for this feeble, half-assed faux-attempt at governing even from the moderate left is just too privileged to accept the tiny little crumbs they’re giving us when they keep stealing the whole fucking loaf.

  57. smedley said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:38

    As a side note, as Benen pointed out yesterday, we now have proof that the Republicans were full of shit when they said the wealthy were sitting on their riches because of the uncertainty of the tax situation. They had their choice of the certainty of higher taxes or the uncertainty of kicking the can down the road for two more years. They chose further uncertainty.

  58. vacuumslayer said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:39

    Decimated the economic base of red states by encouraging massive amounts of offshoring and agribusiness takeover?

    Was this to me? The Republican base has proven time and time again this is simply not a priority for them. If they feel they are being screwed over by this stuff, it’s certainly not as important to them as say making sure a woman doesn’t have dominion over her own body or boys can’t kiss boys.

  59. Lawnguylander said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:39

    I thought the federal government had a policy of not negotiating with hostage takers because it just encourages more hostage taking. Seems somebody forgot to tell Obama.

    We have negotiated with hostage takers in Lebanon and Iran and I’m sure other places too. We just talked tough about not negotiating. The talking tough part wasn’t what got the hostages released is my guess. There’s probably a lesson there.

    His own Congressvermin are ready to throat-punch their grandmas, they’re so utterly fucking apoplectic about this clusterfuck.

    Well then why the fuck didn’t they get something done on their own? Legislate, legislative motherfuckers. And if you don’t know how to negotiate your own deals, come here where you can pick up some simple negotiating advice. Very simple. It’s so easy, you just ask for more than you want and then you get what you want. Of course it could be that they’re liars and are just trying to pass blame onto Obama for their inability to get a better deal and they know some people will fall for it.

  60. Chris said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:40

    They want someone to blame, someone to hate, and someone to coddle them and tell them that none of their problems are their fault, but that everyone else deserves the misfortunes they recieve.

    Amazing how it allows you to abdicate all personal responsibility, too. Don’t have a job? Well, it’s not your fault. In a fair economy, you would have a job. The only reason you don’t have one is because Lousy Stinking Commies took your job and gave it to a black guy, a Hispanic guy, or some guy in India.

    For all their lecturing about personal responibility, there’s probably no group in America that abdicates it as completely as they do.

  61. jim said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:40

    Oh look, more American Spectator junk-mail … & this time it’s a special message from Michele “Ag-Subsidy Welfare-Tramp” Bachmann herself!

    This election cycle, Joe Biden liked to tell audiences, “This is not your father’s Republican Party.” Well, for once he was right. It’s a lot closer to being our Founding Fathers’ Republican Party.

    Zippy The Pinhead called – he wants his non sequiturs back.

  62. vacuumslayer said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:41

    The original Teabaggers started under Bush and the bank bailouts. It was co-opted by Dick Armey to become a partisan movement against Dems.

    ORLY? I sure hope all those sincere, deficit-minded people fled as soon as the Glenn Beck rallies and Fox sponsorship and racist signs started materializing.

  63. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:41

    I still want an explanation why these had to be linked issues.

    Because they were the hostages that the Republicans took.

  64. Mysticdog said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:42

    I’m buying guns with my Christmas bonus.

    Funny. I’ve been thinking the same thing. I don’t think my 40 S&W is going to be enough, I’m seriously considering a 7.62 auto rifle of some sort.

  65. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:44

    Was this to me? The Republican base has proven time and time again this is simply not a priority for them. If they feel they are being screwed over by this stuff, it’s certainly not as important to them as say making sure a woman doesn’t have dominion over her own body or boys can’t kiss boys.

    Ah, yes. I suppose the original premise would include that *they would have to know it*.

  66. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:44

    ORLY? I sure hope all those sincere, deficit-minded people fled as soon as the Glenn Beck rallies and Fox sponsorship and racist signs started materializing.

    Bill Maher tweeted yesterday wondering if the Teabaggers were all going to come out in droves over the fact that Obama gave away $900 billion in debt reduction.

  67. Mysticdog said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:44

    Because they were the hostages that the Republicans took.

    Heh, and I loved the “don’t negotiate with hostage takers unless the hostages are getting hurt” line. WTF does he think the point of hostage taking is? The threat of injury or death is the whole point to hostage taking, that’s how you know they are “hostages” instead of “guests”.

  68. Chyron HR said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:48

    If the economy isn’t roaring again in six months do we get to take it out on rich people?

    Less than a hundred years ago plutocrats who went out in public were taking the risk that someone would throw a bomb at them. An actual, honest-to-God explosive.

    And we got the New Deal.

    If you’re willing to actually “take it out on the rich”, go ahead. You’ll be a martyr, but you’ll be a martyr who gets results. If you’d rather just make funny comments on the internet, you can do that too, but I do not guarantee that it will bring about any social change.

    (Disclaimer: Everything I know about American history I learned from teevee.)

  69. Chris said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:54

    TruculentandUnreliable said,
    December 8, 2010 at 22:37

    Three cheers for T&U. I’m tired of being lectured on how “we let Obama down” in the first two years. Umm, no. We gave him as much support as he could reasonably have asked for (heck, Paul Krugman, one of the faces they continually put on “the professional left,” actually argued in support of HCR well after many liberals had already left in disgust). Our party chose to pass a shit sandwich of a bill. What do you want us to do, smile and wave and pretend it’s ham and cheese?

    I don’t know who the ultimate blame for this falls on.

    Is it Obama? Personally, I’m sick to death of hearing him and his supporters go on about how “well I/he didn’t run on the public option.” No, but you’re not running anymore, shit-for-brains, you’re governing, and you’re doing it badly. It’s not about your campaign promises anymore, it’s about what the country needs from you.

    Is it other Democrats? Personally, I didn’t pick a side in the 2008 primary because I assumed (naively as it turned out) that it wouldn’t make much difference; the Dems were pissed off and mobilized, and the momentum and pressure from the party would force whoever the president was to govern from the left because of it. Boy, was that mistake.

    So, I’m left wondering what would’ve happened if senators had actually held his feet to the fire – e.g. a bunch of liberals get together and say “put in a public option (or, as an absolute fallback, price controls) or we’ll vote against it.” Not sure it would’ve worked, but it wasn’t even tried. Remember FDR’s line, “I want you to make me do this even though I want to do it.”

  70. Whale Chowder said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:56

    What is not acceptable – and which I describe here as ‘hostage-taking’ – is when compromise proponents scream ‘fuck you – you don’t care about people on UI and poor people and the middle class’ if you have reservations about the compromise! Because it is not at all crystal clear that the compromise offers a quantitatively better deal for the American people and the American economy than the worst-case scenario resulting from not passing it. In the short term, yes. In the longer term, the compromise could actually be a whole helluva lot worse for the bottom 80 percent of earners than letting it die.

    You and I have different definitions of ‘hostage-taking’ then. Them yelling “shut up!” at you achieves exactly nothing insofar as it has any effect on either the compromise, the positions taken by their representatives in Congress, or the argument itself.

    This is as opposed to the hostage-taking Big O was describing the R’s doing, which (you have to admit) stood a pretty good chance of at least preventing anything getting through this year. You can argue that might have been a better result than what actually happened (for some or maybe most of us) but you can’t argue that it was consequence-free.

    That’s basically what I take issue with in your original post: you express a desire to force people who don’t agree with you to stop arguing (not entirely but YKWIM) because they make you feel bad and you label that ‘hostage taking’ but in the larger context this is hostage taking like ConYank is a real tough guy, i.e. nothing resembling that.

    I think you could make a pretty good argument that this compromise could be worse than doing nothing — you might even convince me; I’m about halfway there already. I wish, though, that liberals would cease all the hand wringing over the deficit since they were all echoing Krugman a month ago that the stimulus should have been been bigger and in the short term deficits don’t matter. I think it’s more than a little bit hypocritical to go there now.

  71. Chris said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:56

    This election cycle, Joe Biden liked to tell audiences, “This is not your father’s Republican Party.” Well, for once he was right. It’s a lot closer to being our Founding Fathers’ Republican Party.

    Slavery and 70/80% of the population not allowed to vote! Oh, goodie! On the bright side, no more wars overseas.

  72. Dubya said,

    December 8, 2010 at 22:59

    I don’t know who the ultimate blame for this falls on.

    Oh, you poor confused man.

    Heh heh heh heh.

  73. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:00

    I don’t know who the ultimate blame for this falls on.

    Us, frankly.

    Obama raised how many hundreds of millions from small donors?

    That’s you and I. From day fucking one, we should have reminded him of the gift we gave him, and kept his feet in the fire.

  74. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:06

    Incidentally, we’re talking about hostage-taking and the seriousness of letting the middle class tax cuts and UI extensions expire – you know, leaving people homeless and destitute etc. The American people being “hurt”.

    Way to stay on message.

  75. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:06

    That’s you and I. From day fucking one, we should have reminded him of the gift we gave him, and kept his feet in the fire.

    Yet, he’s the one who dismantled the political machine that put him in office. Hell, you could send him a goddamn letter every day, and he’d still ignore you in favor of “reasonable” opinions.

  76. Lawnguylander said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:07

    So, I’m left wondering what would’ve happened if senators had actually held his feet to the fire – e.g. a bunch of liberals get together and say “put in a public option (or, as an absolute fallback, price controls) or we’ll vote against it.” Not sure it would’ve worked, but it wasn’t even tried. Remember FDR’s line, “I want you to make me do this even though I want to do it.”

    It didn’t happen because they did want a bill to pass, the public option wasn’t important enough to kill it over and they’re not stupid. The way the whole thing played out suggests that people like Bernie Sanders do actually understand something about negotiating and could see that enough senators were willing to walk away and let nothing happen on health care. What use in a situation like that is drawing a line that you say you’re not going to cross when you know that ultimately you will come back to the table? When someone like Max Baucus calls your bluff you only come out with a weaker negotiating position than you started with and looking stupider than him. Not every negotiation is exactly like buying a rug from an Arab.

  77. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:07

    Sorry about the scare quotes. They are meant to indicate that I am using Obama’s word for it – not that I don’t think people aren’t already hurting.

  78. Ronald Reagan said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:08

    Oh, you poor confused man.

    Heh heh heh heh.

    Dubya, I was destroying America before you even knew how to spell it. Yes, I know that doesn’t narrow it down. What I’m saying is sit down, shut up and quit snickering like an idiot, or I’m telling your mom Dick Cheney.

  79. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:09

    Way to stay on message.

    Gibbs is a douche.

    Yet, he’s the one who dismantled the political machine that put him in office. Hell, you could send him a goddamn letter every day, and he’d still ignore you in favor of “reasonable” opinions.

    Yup! And given the growing hostility toward the “professional left,” why would we think that he would listen to us?

  80. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:11

    Hell, you could send him a goddamn letter every day, and he’d still ignore you in favor of “reasonable” opinions.

    Not from all of us

  81. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:13

    Yup! And given the growing hostility toward the “professional left,” why would we think that he would listen to us?

    Because we bought the fucking myth and rolled over for him like DKW’s mom for a hundred dollar bill.

    We shouldn’t have. Hell, I was a Hilbot and I bought his shit.

  82. vacuumslayer said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:14

    and rolled over for him like DKW’s mom for a hundred dollar bill

    Hundred? Try five.

  83. Chris said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:16

    Lawnguylander said,
    December 8, 2010 at 23:07

    If the public option isn’t important enough to kill over, then price controls. But what no one’s explained to me yet is this;

    If I understand the bill correctly (and please correct me if I’m wrong because nothing would make me happier in this case), the government is now committed to financially helping people who are too poor to afford health insurance – but on the other hand, there’s no mechanism to control the price. The price is still set by insurance companies. Am I correct?

    If so, then what’s going to prevent them from slowly but surely hiking up prices now that they know the government’s there to make sure those prices are met? What’s preventing premiums and (eventually, by necessity) taxes from both going up over time, thus screwing more and more people – and if that happens, Obama and by extension “liberal HCR,” not the insurance companies, will get the blame for creating a situation where that was possible.

  84. vacuumslayer said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:17

    OT & totally inane, but…in case anyone here needs cheering up and would like to ponder happier things, try pondering this: Why is this puppy’s head so round?

  85. Chris said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:17

    Because we bought the fucking myth and rolled over for him like DKW’s mom for a hundred dollar bill.

    What the hell’ve you been paying her?

  86. Chris said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:18

    Hundred? Try five.

    Dammit! Foiled again!

  87. vacuumslayer said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:19

    I’m just posting today to throw salt in your game, Chris.

  88. Chris said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:20

    It’s working.

  89. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:21

    We shouldn’t have. Hell, I was a Hilbot and I bought his shit.

    I did, even though I knew the entire time that it was a bad idea.

  90. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:22

    What the hell’ve you been paying her?

    I’m Protestant. We pay retail.

  91. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:24

    I did, even though I knew the entire time that it was a bad idea.

    Yea, but i was buying into what everyone who supported him in the primaries was telling me.

    I should have known better. Dammit, I’m older than you are! I should have known better!

  92. Chris said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:25

    I should have known better. Dammit, I’m older than you are! I should have known better!

    It’s okay. You’re Protestant. My people are the infallible ones.

  93. the ugly hunchback that washes dishes and rings the dinner bell said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:27

    Tonight’s Menu

    Chicken Soup a la fecale

    Spinach Salad with large crap crouton

    Merde Canine Bleu

    Sherbet w/ Stool Sauce

  94. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:27

    Once again, I will bid you good people good night- the Irish-Mexican Alliance is hosting an event decrying the murder of journalists by narco-gangs.

    This will make this week a big beer trifecta.

  95. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:28

    Who hired that hunchback?

    I swear there’s a theme to dinner tonight. Same theme as always…

  96. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:28

    WC – okay, you’re getting pretty close to forcing me to admit that ‘hostage-taking’ is the wrong analogy on my part. ‘Unnecessary and mendacious guilt-tripping’ is probably closer to what I’m objecting to.

  97. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:29

    the Irish-Mexican Alliance is hosting an event decrying the murder of journalists by narco-gangs.

    Irish cerveza?

    Sounds like fun!

  98. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:29

    I’m Protestant. We pay retail.

    We do?

  99. vacuumslayer said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:32

    “Tonight’s Menu

    Chicken Soup a la fecale

    Spinach Salad with large crap crouton

    Merde Canine Bleu

    Sherbet w/ Stool Sauce”

    None of this sounds good. On the plus side, if the help spits in our food, would it really matter?

  100. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:33

    We do?

    SOMEone has to!

  101. vacuumslayer said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:33

    “I’m Protestant. We pay retail.

    We do?”

    Yeah. Speak for yourself, Hoity-Toity.

  102. The Protestant People's Front said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:34

    We do?

    WE do.

    Splittist!

  103. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:38

    I wish, though, that liberals would cease all the hand wringing over the deficit since they were all echoing Krugman a month ago that the stimulus should have been been bigger and in the short term deficits don’t matter.

    This is a misrepresentation. Not all deficit spending in a recession/recovery is created equal. There is deficit spending that offers help to those that need it the most and is stimulative (hopefully both at the same time). Then there is the extreme opposite case of the rich-people tax break – deficit spending that helps people who don’t need it and that is negligibly stimulative. And with the extension of the rich-people tax break you also get the political reality that the party now controlling the law-making side of congress is going to use the now-bigger deficit hole it creates to push for rollbacks of other spending that helps people who actually need it and/or is stimulative.

  104. Lawnguylander said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:40

    If I understand the bill correctly (and please correct me if I’m wrong because nothing would make me happier in this case), the government is now committed to financially helping people who are too poor to afford health insurance – but on the other hand, there’s no mechanism to control the price. The price is still set by insurance companies. Am I correct?

    They can set the price they want now and are only constrained by the fact that if they set it too high they’ll lose business to their competitors or people just won’t buy period. Under the new law they’ll have to adhere to market conditions and medical loss ratio rules. They face fines and getting kicked out of the exchanges if they don’t adhere to the ratios.

    Here’s a guide to what else is in the new law.

  105. Cool Coach Urban Meyer said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:43

    Ding dong dilly, loony libs! Here’s the Cool Coach rubbing his early retirement in your faces. Don’t worry, liberal droogs, because the Cool Coach will be teaming up with Super Sarah the Power Palin to co-host a Fox-tastic Newshour. You’ve just been served a spread of CAREER CHANGE, loony libs.

    Urban out!

  106. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:47

    Cool Coach rubbing his early retirement in your faces

    Got your sorry ass fired, huh?

    What? No shoving it down our throats?

  107. Whale Chowder said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:52

    This is a misrepresentation. Not all deficit spending in a recession/recovery is created equal.

    Fair enough. I totally agree with you that going into hock so the rich can, how did tigris put it? “gold plate their taint?” is a horrible horrible idea. It isn’t stimulative (except to the taint-platers) and it won’t help the recovery.

    My only hope is that, as the economy and the jobs picture continues to be for shit, somebody will point out the fact that giving away the store to the rich didn’t do us much good, now did it?

    Sadly, given that nobody (but a few of us on the ignorable left) has pointed it out in the nearly ten years the current tax plan has been in place, that hope is small and fading. I’m seriously trying to figure out if it’s possible to get out of the country.

  108. Taint Plater said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:54

    It isn’t stimulative (except to the taint-platers) and it won’t help the recovery</I.

    Cool! Now I can buy a boat and plate it with taint!

  109. Chris said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:54

    Urban Meyer, fired. That oughta make Not A Gator pretty happy, oughtn’t it?

  110. actor212 said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:54

    Tagfail, Tainty?

  111. Cerberus said,

    December 8, 2010 at 23:58

    On a serious note, I’m honestly confused about the negatives in just walking away.

    I mean, I know the negatives in walking away from the health care debate.

    But here?

    I mean, so the Republicans have refused to let any single bill pass cloture if they don’t get their way, but that seems to be a basic setup for getting rid of the current cloture setup and forcing infinite readings of the phone book as part of the majority rule setting at the next session of congress.

    And I don’t see how well that would stand up when it came to the big ticket options. Republicans make a lot of noise about government stoppage, but all their supporters are pretty much relying on government to survive and the actual ending of it would be pretty painful to the Big Lie.

    So, the big argument Obama and the “yeah, the ‘professional left’, i.e. anyone who has been a liberal longer than 5 years, should STFU” crowds seem to be pushing is that we can’t just let the tax cuts expire, because we need to preserve the middle class numbers.

    And that’s my serious question.

    Why?

    Why do we need to “preserve the middle class tax cuts”? Tax rates are obscenely low already, the Bush “middle class tax cuts” were already insultingly meaningless and Obama already passed some middle class tax cuts in the useless part of the Stimulus.

    I mean, I get it politically. He’s trying to bribe the votes of apathetic employed middle class people, a species becoming extinct, because he foolishly believes the Tea Party rhetoric that they are really motivated by high taxes on the middle class that don’t exist.

    But why do we need it so bad that we need to set a dangerous precedent and surrender on the tax debate? That it’s “crucial” that we don’t just literally throw up our hands and say “we’re not going to pass a tax increase”, because we’re just going to let it all expire?

    It seems to just be established fact that we can’t let middle class tax rates go back to normal (i.e. middle class loses the handful of bucks rebate every tax season, something that was literally a drop in the bucket and won’t cause anyone to lose their house) among the President can do no wrong types, but I’ve yet to see a good policy reason why we should be wasting any time giving a shit about this.

    Anyone have any ideas?

    Also, because I forgot the humour, please accept my late gift of POOP.

  112. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:03

    FYWP.

  113. jim said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:04

    I wish, though, that liberals would cease all the hand wringing over the deficit since they were all echoing Krugman a month ago that the stimulus should have been been bigger and in the short term deficits don’t matter. I think it’s more than a little bit hypocritical to go there now.

    Never mind the hypocrisy – deficit fever in a stagnant economy is an economic straightjacket. You can’t save or cut your way from a bad economy to a good one (cf. the “Roosevelt Recession” of 1937). A bigger (& less watered-down) stimulus would’ve likely had the US economy in much better shape by now – maybe even good enough to grow the tax-base to where it could start to pay down the deficit. Hell of a lot less agonizing than doing it via program cuts – Canada went through that particular meat-grinder in the 80s, & the good stuff that got the axe during the “belt-tightening” phase doesn’t get restored when the good times return.

    Silver lining: our government debt in FY 2009-2010 was about $40 billion, so we’re looking a lot less terminal than the rest of the G-7. But cuts didn’t do most of that, the Goods & Services Tax did. GST goes from 7% to 5% = Canada goes from surplus to deficit.

    I think the US will have to institute a similar flat tax before 2020, just to keep total insolvency at bay … & when it does, the mass-aneurysm on the right will make the Summer Of Teh Glorious People’s War-Scooter Revolution look like a picnic.

  114. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:04

    Okay, two parts, because of FYWP:

    On a serious note, I’m honestly confused about the negatives in just walking away.

    I mean, I know the negatives in walking away from the health care debate.

    But here?

    I mean, so the Republicans have refused to let any single bill pass cloture if they don’t get their way, but that seems to be a basic setup for getting rid of the current cloture setup and forcing infinite readings of the phone book as part of the majority rule setting at the next session of congress.

    And I don’t see how well that would stand up when it came to the big ticket options. Republicans make a lot of noise about government stoppage, but all their supporters are pretty much relying on government to survive and the actual ending of it would be pretty painful to the Big Lie.

    So, the big argument Obama and the “yeah, the ‘professional left’, i.e. anyone who has been a liberal longer than 5 years, should STFU” crowds seem to be pushing is that we can’t just let the tax cuts expire, because we need to preserve the middle class numbers.

  115. Andy Axel said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:05

    From way up thread:

    The original Teabaggers started under Bush and the bank bailouts. It was co-opted by Dick Armey to become a partisan movement against Dems.

    Not banks per se. If you mean the CNBC direct to mic made for TV moment, Santelli was frothing about Obama spending $75bn in a set-aside for the HASP program, which was a mortgage modification program. This was the shit sandwich proffered in lieu of allowing greater use of cramdown in bankruptcy proceedings. But it did offer some financial relief for qualifying homeowners (offer not valid in all areas / some restrictions apply / objects in mirror may be larger).

    In terms of what TARP and TALF meant in big dollars, HASP about 1/10 of TARP alone. But God forbid you help a jobless person modify egregious ARM terms with federal dollars.

  116. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:06

    Sadly, given that nobody (but a few of us on the ignorable left) has pointed it out in the nearly ten years the current tax plan has been in place, that hope is small and fading. I’m seriously trying to figure out if it’s possible to get out of the country.

    Yes. This is why, to me, killing the compromise could be worth the very, very real pain of no UI extension, etc. Here’s what we’ve got – the poor, working class and middle class (in that order) are going to get screwed pretty badly in the short term if we kill the compromise. But the poor, working class and middle class (in that order) are going to get screwed probably even worse in the long term if we pass it.

    I totally get people who say feed hungry people now and we’ll figure out what to do down the road about all the extra hungry people that turn up. I just lean towards the rip-the-band-aid-off-now option right now, given the politics and given the really shitty scenario likely in the out years.

  117. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:06

    Second part because of FYWP:

    And that’s my serious question.

    Why?

    Why do we need to “preserve the middle class tax cuts”? Tax rates are obscenely low already, the Bush “middle class tax cuts” were already insultingly meaningless and Obama already passed some middle class tax cuts in the useless part of the Stimulus.

    I mean, I get it politically. He’s trying to bribe the votes of apathetic employed middle class people, a species becoming extinct, because he foolishly believes the Tea Party rhetoric that they are really motivated by high taxes on the middle class that don’t exist.

  118. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:07

    Second part FYWP:

    And that’s my serious question.

    Why?

    Why do we need to “preserve the middle class tax cuts”? Tax rates are obscenely low already, the Bush “middle class tax cuts” were already insultingly meaningless and Obama already passed some middle class tax cuts in the useless part of the Stimulus.

  119. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:08

    Third part FYWP?

    Why do we need it so bad that we need to set a dangerous precedent and surrender on the tax debate? That it’s “crucial” that we don’t just literally throw up our hands and say “we’re not going to pass a tax increase”, because we’re just going to let it all expire?

    It seems to just be established fact that we can’t let middle class tax rates go back to normal (i.e. middle class loses the handful of bucks rebate every tax season, something that was literally a drop in the bucket and won’t cause anyone to lose their house) among the President can do no wrong types, but I’ve yet to see a good policy reason why we should be wasting any time giving a shit about this.

    Anyone have any ideas?

    Also, because I forgot the humour, please accept my late gift of POOP.

  120. Andy Axel said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:09

    Er, not Obama. Bush. Corrected. Also.

  121. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:09

    Cerebrus – seems to me that UI extension is the really big carrot (or hostage if you will) in the compromise for libs.

  122. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:11

    Just adding because FYWP stole the narrative flow from my comment, that I understand the naked political motivation. He’s trying to bribe the teabaggers by being nice mister low taxes for the employed middle class who’ll never vote for me anyway.

    But somehow it’s become so important that he’s willing to sell out something real for an imagined political advantage and people are supporting him on this for reasons I can’t fully grasp.

  123. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:13

    Cerberus – to be honest, a growing part of me (yum!) thinks that the compromise is really the ‘Let’s-All-Go-Home-Early-For-Christmas’ initiative of a lame-duck session. Seriously. I’m not fucking around on that.

  124. Pupienus Maximus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:16

    Tagfail, Tainty?

    No, tainty is FagTail.

  125. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:19

    DA-

    Yes, because Obama allowed that to be the debate because he’s unwilling to just let the Bush tax cuts die unmentioned and unloved and is lashing everything and anything to the middle class tax part to save them, thus handing the hostages to the Republicans and saying fuck me over.

    I mean, we got an “attempt” involving just the middle class tax cuts, but I haven’t seen the same with just UI. Seems UI would be stronger on its own because in this economy, it is a dangerous sword against Republicans, even with the complicit media.

    So why isn’t it on it’s own. Why is Obama insisting on the frantic scrambling to “save the middle class tax cuts” rather than anything that makes sense and would actually give him leverage.

    I mean, the UI extensions have passed without fanfare, so obviously even the Republicans are frightened of just letting them die.

  126. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:24

    The Senate Republicans will not cloture anything until a tax bill passes. At least that is their bargaining position. Bluff? Christmas seems like a great time to test whether they’re really all about putting more people out on the street during the worst economy in several generations. Even Scrooge at least wanted the poorhouses to stay open.

  127. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:25

    DA-

    That’s probably exactly it considering a good number of people couldn’t even bother to show up (but somehow we still needed 60 votes, even when they brought only 20-something to vote no on cloture, broken government, naahhh).

    And that just makes me more willing to argue they should let it die.

    If they are too holiday-dazed to do anything positive, then maybe it should come up during the next session.

    Or, fuck it, have Bernie Sanders or someone else who gives a shit about the country force everyone to stay. If we’re playing fast and loose to prevent Obama from ever getting the appointments he nominated back in early 2009, we might as well have votes every single day on UI and everything else that matters.

    I don’t know. The whole thing depresses me, because it’s like bad modern art. I’m sitting and looking at the political incompetence and feeling like I could do a better job with my zero political talent. Political strategies shouldn’t feel like a preschooler slapped some liquid feces on a canvas and called it a day.

  128. Lawnguylander said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:26

    Most of the tax cuts from the stimulus, the expanded EITC and child tax credits which are geared toward the working poor (useless my ass), the college tax credit, would expire without this deal. I think that and letting the regular marginal tax rates for everyone but the rich would be a bad idea from an economic recovery standpoint but also politically disastrous. There are some stimulus tax breaks for the working poor that are not being extended with this deal and that’s too bad. So is the fact that UEI extensions for those at 99 weeks are not part of the deal. It’s a shame that the left is paying almost no attention to these items because it would be worthwhile to lobby Congress to include them and make this deal better than it is now. It’s a lot easier and more fun to bitch at Obama and pose as a victimized member of the Professional Left I guess.

  129. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:28

    DA-

    Seems easy to call their bluff then.

    Have a single announcement to the nation. Republicans want families to starve on Christmas.

    Make it all about the UI not being passed. Remind them even Scrooge had holiday spirit and play chicken.

    Obama’s strategy seems to be caring more about lawmakers getting to spend a long holiday with their kids rather than actually doing right by anyone and it’s more obscene because he’s acting like he’s the only one who gives a fuck.

    Even the Republicans know better than to Scrooge Christmas and Obama is giving them a way to pretend they were Cratchett all along.

  130. Lowkey said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:33

    But somehow it’s become so important that he’s willing to sell out something real for an imagined political advantage and people are supporting him on this for reasons I can’t fully grasp.

    the compromise is really the ‘Let’s-All-Go-Home-Early-For-Christmas’ initiative of a lame-duck session.

    Agh, I hate plumbing the depths of the eleventh dimension, so how about just the fourth?

    I think the administration is looking ahead to the next fight. If the tax issue goes unsettled (which I think is likely, the whip counts are going to be reeeeeally thin on this one), it’s both the last thing that happens this session, and the first thing next session. In the meantime, taxes will go up, but 27+ weekers fall off the cliff. If this thing passes, UI is off the table for a whole year, and the administration can make the deficit fight about Medicare, which is so much of the long term problem, anyway. This is a fight we have much better position on, because the Tea Party and the AARP will want completely opposite results, and the GOP actually listens to AARP (tying it back to the HCR fight).

    This is a retreat to better ground and time to regroup. It took Clinton a year to get to the fight he could win. We’re going to have to buckle up and hang together, ‘cos it’s going to be a shitty road to that fight.

  131. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:34

    Lawnguylander-

    My bad. I had a bad choice of words.

    Not useless, but less useful in being directly stimulative. There was a few good things in the tax cut area of the Stimulus, but in general they were not as directly stimulative as the actual Stimulus. All in all, I like the Stimulus, not as much as I would have liked, but certainly better than nothing, same with HCR.

    But, we’re not talking about Stimulus tax cuts here. We’re talking about the Bush tax cut extension. And the Bush tax cuts to the middle class are useless and more than made up by the Obama middle class tax cuts in the Stimulus.

    So why the protracted fight and insane initial bargaining position where they were the only bill that mattered and everything must accept as a given that anything can be sacrificed to preserve only that part of the Bush tax cuts?

    I mean, the middle class tax cuts got an up-or-down vote, UI isn’t.

    Why?

  132. M. Bouffant said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:35

    Political action is a sad fucking joke. It is a distraction, unless you have the money to influence the process. If you’re going to sit around on the internet all day, do something useful.

    The website and personal credit card information of former Gov. Sarah Palin were cyber-attacked today by Wikileaks supporters, the 2008 GOP vice presidential candidate tells ABC News in an email.

    Hackers in London apparently affiliated with “Operation Payback” – a group of supporters of Julian Assange and Wikileaks – have tried to shut down SarahPac and have disrupted Sarah and Todd Palin’s personal credit card accounts.

    “No wonder others are keeping silent about Assange’s antics,” Palin emailed. “This is what happens when you exercise the First Amendment and speak against his sick, un-American espionage efforts.”

  133. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:41

    Lowkey-

    I guess that’s also the despairing thing. It seems the game is so rigged that unless we can get 70+ senators elected for the Dem Party, the whole game is either lose spectacularly, or lose slowly and painfully. I mean, we’re already a second-world nation, the middle-class is almost extinct and barely anyone can find a job no matter how hard they look (I’m at my 6 month anniversary of nothing and I have a master’s degree in what is supposed to be one of the few “booming industries”).

    I kind of want a win.

    A real win.

    And the only ones that have been free to enjoy without caveats or retreats on other issues have been Lily Ledbetter and Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes. And that was with 60 caucusing with the Dems.

    It’s especially depressing considering how much horror the Repubs are able to pass with a simple majority in both houses, or even with a 59-41 disadvantage like we have until next session.

    Sorry, the shittiness of our broken government is soul-raping the funny out of me.

  134. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:44

    Palin was assured by Bloomingdale’s that the $50,000 worth of MILF-wear that she ordered Wednesday would still arrive in three shipping days despite the whole hour-long rigamarole her PA had to go through talking to VISA and the Bloomy’s sales rep.

    But Todd was pissed because he only brought enough cash for the eight-ball at the strip joint and he wasn’t able to use plastic for the VIP-room blowie he wanted.

  135. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:46

    M Bouffant, I’ve sent out over 40 applications starting from Monday. I’m burned out on useful. I’m now on understanding the fucked up system to better focus my rage and keep it from being a self-devouring monster that will see me back in my cutting phase, like I was still an emo teenager.

    Also, POOP. Man-POOP.

    Besides, the only “useful” political action after all these fail is the old sick joke: “There are roughly equal numbers of liberals and conservatives, so if each liberal killed just one conservative…”

  136. jim said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:48

    the compromise is really the ‘Let’s-All-Go-Home-Early-For-Christmas’ initiative of a lame-duck session

    Bingo. They know most people will have forgotten this deal by New Year’s … all the more so when the Grouchy Old Perverts get control of the House & start issuing demands to see Obama’s toilet-paper budget birth-certificate. The “99ers” won’t have that luxury while they’re hoping their landlords will take a kidney or firstborn child for payment – seems odd to me how all the “Think Of The Poors” concern-trolls seem to have skipped right over them.

  137. Whale Chowder said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:50

    I mean, we got an “attempt” involving just the middle class tax cuts, but I haven’t seen the same with just UI. Seems UI would be stronger on its own because in this economy, it is a dangerous sword against Republicans, even with the complicit media.

    So why isn’t it on it’s own. Why is Obama insisting on the frantic scrambling to “save the middle class tax cuts” rather than anything that makes sense and would actually give him leverage.

    The 42 vote promise to hold everything up is part of it. The other part is, even if the congressional Dems played chicken with the R’s on UI and won, it’d be the last thing they did this year. Say what you will but this at least gets through several issues that are important to us (or me) — which is the upside of this shit sandwitch (look! dill pickles!).

    Personally, I’d be willing to give up the entire Bush tax cut, right down to the lowest bracket (and my family is fairly close to the “rich guy” cutoff) but I understand the argument against that.

  138. tsam said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:53

    Hmmm…..let me see.

    Columbia/Harvard Law graduate.
    Lawyer
    State Senator
    Federal Senator

    Becomes president, exhumes the carcass of the WJ Clinton sybian machine and oils it with donations from Goldman Sachs and the like…

    I must admit that I expected more from him, but that makes me feel like a much bigger idiot than we all keep trying to say he is.

    Let’s face it, shit has to get MUCH worse (like say 25% unemployment like during the Depression) for your rank a file dumbfuck to get past believing that personal income tax cuts create jobs, or that making the wealthy pay their taxes kills jobs. People actually use the term “death tax” and manage to keep a straight face–people who don’t have million dollar estates to give to their spoiled brat fucking loser kids. As long as we have our 50″ LCD’s, two or three cars, and a Starbucks on every corner, we feel like we have it pretty good. As long as it’s somebody else’s kid who volunteered to go fight the fucking bullshit wars that drag on for decades (by design), then we feel we’re making no sacrifice, so why not support the war? Average one soldier/marine per day–we lose that many to car accidents, right?

    The American psyche is the largest pile of hyperbolic, reactionary, sanctimonious dogshit in the fucking world right now. How many times do we have to stick the fork in the light socket before we learn? I guess the answer to that has yet to be determined.

  139. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:56

    WC, what is the argument for that, minus the hostage taking?

    I mean, why would it be bad policy (minus the possible political necessity due to shitty political strategy) to let the whole rancid Bush tax cut die it’s ugly ignoble death? Especially considering the reasonably decent middle class tax cuts in effect due to the Stimulus.

  140. tsam said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:57

    But Todd was pissed because he only brought enough cash for the eight-ball at the strip joint and he wasn’t able to use plastic for the VIP-room blowie he wanted

    This has a bit of a negative connotation to it, which I resent. I’d be pissed too.

  141. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:57

    I like the idea of trying to call the bluff on the 42-vote promise with a separate UI extension bill.

    Also like this idea – in the House compromise bill, make it so the middle class tax cuts are ‘permanent’ but the over-$250K cuts have to be re-upped in two years. See if the GOP pricks’ll find themselves forced to swallow that. Then they’ll have to push for rich people tax cuts in a presidential election year.

  142. Lowkey said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:57

    I kind of want a win. A real win.

    Man, do I hear you. Look, I’ve got the President’s back on this move, but it ain’t because I’m anywhere near pleased about it. Fuck retreating, right in its soul-raping ass. Fuck paying off the GOP, right in its negative-feedback-loop ass. FUCK. IT.

    But take a moment, and (if your soul can withstand it) nutpick the righty intertrons. This has fucked them up, too. This is how we’ll get to those wins, by not letting them have fights on their terms. They’re going to take more hostages (the debt ceiling, or austerity hysteria, or the *gag* next bank rescue in whatever form it’ll take). We have to wait until we get these fuckers in our sights, and it has to be an issue where the general public, Swing Vote America, will get behind the President and Congresscritteral Donks. Gird your gold-plated loins, Cerberus. The shutdown is going to last a lot longer than three weeks this time. We cannot go into that fight at the wrong time, or as anything less than a unified Left. You’d better be prepared for some ugly sacrifices to get to that fight, and in the condition to win it.

  143. tsam said,

    December 9, 2010 at 0:58

    rank a file

    HA! What a maroon.

  144. tsam said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:00

    I like the idea of trying to call the bluff on the 42-vote promise with a separate UI extension bill.

    I’m leaning more toward the 1848 Revolutions. Nothing says “I’m going to ask you one. more. fucking. time…” like sticking a bayonet up in dey grill.

  145. Whale Chowder said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:07

    WC, what is the argument for that, minus the hostage taking?

    I’m assuming you’re asking “why not let the whole Bush tax cut dodge go the fuck away?”

    Mostly because you’d lose two things IME:

    1) the stimulative effect of leaving a little extra in the pockets of people who might actually spend it
    2) the tiny chance that a few extra dollars mean the difference between having a place to stay and being out on the street (or eating sparrows twice a week or not being able to afford an Rx, pick your bad outcome) for some number of people.

  146. Lawnguylander said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:12

    But, we’re not talking about Stimulus tax cuts here. We’re talking about the Bush tax cut extension. And the Bush tax cuts to the middle class are useless and more than made up by the Obama middle class tax cuts in the Stimulus.

    No, like I said up there, we’re talking about both. The middle class tax cuts from the stimulus expire without a deal of some kind. And tax cuts are not useless in a recession. You can find better ways to stimulate the economy but giving people more money to spend is stimulative.

    So why the protracted fight and insane initial bargaining position where they were the only bill that mattered and everything must accept as a given that anything can be sacrificed to preserve only that part of the Bush tax cuts?

    I don’t recognize this bargaining position you describe where extending the middle class tax cuts was the only thing that mattered. But they mattered to Democrats because it was a very popular policy with the public and they also don’t think it makes economic sense to let taxes go up on the people most likely to spend their money in the middle of a recession. But maybe I misunderstood you here.

    I mean, the middle class tax cuts got an up-or-down vote, UI isn’t.

    The middle class tax cuts did not get an up or down vote. They got a cloture vote. I don’t know why UEI extensions didn’t but I would have liked to have seen it.

  147. M. Bouffant said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:13

    How many times do we have to can we stick the fork in the light socket before we learn?

    Diminishing returns, yada.

  148. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:14

    WC…

    Except:

    1) That stimulative effect is shit compared to every other method of stimulus known to man and the Repubs are using the deficit created by it to demand massive roll-backs on everything that is stimulative to the economy and you-know actually keeps people alive.

    2) It isn’t. Because in order to get more than a tiny handful of coins, you have to own your own floating island. No one is counting on it, and those that were have been more than covered by the Obama tax cuts in the Stimulus bill which basically passed the whole “middle class tax cut” part of the Bush tax cuts except in a way that didn’t suck so why are we even having this debate?

    For a debate that involves Obama yelling at the left about how we all dream of Magical Unicorns, he seems to be wanting us to swallow one hell of a Magical Unicorn cock with regards to why we need to preserve anything of Bush’s rancid bill.

  149. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:19

    Lawnguylander-

    I’m pretty damn certain the Stimulus middle class tax cut and the Bush tax cut/ middle class section are two very very different things.

    Sure it might make sense if they were one and the same, but they are not. The Obama Stimulus tax cut was it’s own thing and is not what is being extended here (and if it somehow needed to be, there is no reason to tie it to the Bush tax cuts about to expire, because it’s not part of the Bush tax cut bill, it’s a separate thing).

    So again, why do we need to protect the Bush (not Stimulus) middle class tax cuts, the bit that was an insulting throwaway to try and justify the massive tax cuts for the wealthy?

    There still doesn’t seem to be a good policy reason for accepting the Unicorn cock of freedom (though there might be a good politics reason owing to complete tactical incompetence on the part of Obama’s team.

  150. Mysticdog said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:20

    Lawnguylander-

    My bad. I had a bad choice of words.


    No need, the guy has been concern trolling two days. People did a better job ignoring him yesterday, lol.

    He buys the corporate line. We get it. At the end of the day though, it was still a horrible compromise, that achieves very little and left many people out of what little it did achieve, and sets the stage for many more political and economic failures moving forward.

    Remember when the Republicans tried to hold the entire US government hostage, and Clinton took them head on and the popular backlash ended up breaking wht the Republicans thought would be easy legislative victories for the rest of his term? A lot of ‘pukes lost their careers on that fiasco, and it was the “end of the beginning” of the contract on america.

    Here is what a president with stones said: “I vetoed the spending bill sent to me by Congress last night because America can never accept under pressure what it would not accept in free and open debate. I strongly believe their budget plan is bad for America. I believe it will undermine opportunity, make it harder for families to do the work that they have to do, weaken our obligations to our parents and our children, and make our country more divided. So I will continue to fight for the right kind of balanced budget.

    Remember, the Republicans are following a very explicit strategy announced last April by Speaker Gingrich, to use the threat of a government shutdown to force America to accept their cuts in Medicare and Medicaid, to accept their cuts in education and technology and the environment.

    Yesterday they sent me legislation that said — we will only keep the government going, and we will only let it pay its debts if and only if we accept their cuts in Medicare, their cuts in education, their cuts in the environment, and their repeal of 25 years of bipartisan commitments to protect the environment and public health.

    On behalf of the American people, I said no. If America has to close down access to education, to a clean environment, to affordable health care, to keep our government open, then the price is too high. ”

    Now, I’ve got a lot of problems with Clinton, but at the end of the day he undid a lot of Reagan/Bush damage, did a lot of good and even great things of his own, mostly balanced the budget, and most of all, got out and advocated for the American people and for a mostly liberal ideology.

    Obama mindset is one that had surrendered to corperate power before he even took office.

  151. Whale Chowder said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:21

    Cerberus:

    I don’t disagree with you except that the tax cuts are what could even remotely be passed in terms of stimulus by end-of-year.

    And if you think this year sucks, wait until the next congress, where one house won’t even require any Democratic traitors to block any and everything and the other will be so busy sending subpoenas to the White House no other business will get done. Whee, you won’t be swallowing that unicorn cock with your mouth anymore, that’s for sure.

  152. Substance McGravitas said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:22

    No need, the guy has been concern trolling two days. People did a better job ignoring him yesterday, lol.

    Lawnguylander is not a troll.

  153. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:27

    WC-

    Joy.

    Well, next summer I’ll be looking at PhD programs so hopefully a year and a half is the maximum I can spend out of work. Maybe I can sell my partner on the wonderful advantages of going to Canada for that.

  154. Substance McGravitas said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:28

    A valuable site for those thinking of leaving the US.

  155. Lowkey said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:28

    Here is what a president with stones said: “yadda.”

    That President with stones had to suck down a full year of loathesome Christianist bullshit to get to that fight, Mysticdog. This President is going to have to eat a plate of TeaBags to get to his.

  156. Substance McGravitas said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:29

    (For Canada that is. There are many warmer places in the world.)

  157. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:34

    Substance-

    Eh, I survived Denmark for two years and I’m living in the foggiest part of the Bay Area (note, I haven’t checked scientifically and am in fact talking out my ass VGSR*).

    Canada ain’t got nothing.

    I might actually think about it. Not only would I not be in a freefalling former superpower wholly invested in its own destruction (because Canada isn’t a superpower, zing), we could even get married without having to play games with legal sex.

    On the downside…I don’t trust the lumberjacks in British Columbia, they seem shifty.

  158. Substance McGravitas said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:38

    Canada ain’t got nothing.

    Those in southern BC are lucky to be sure. Do not go to Edmonton.

  159. Lowkey said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:39

    I don’t trust the lumberjacks in British Columbia, they seem shifty.

    Meh, they’re just baked out of their gourds. Comes off as sketchy.

    Anyway, try Montreal. Lived there for an amazing year. But, don’t go fleeing this madhouse yet; I’m not feeling done for, and neither should you. Toujours, l’audace!

  160. Whale Chowder said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:45

    Canadianistanis are some of the nicest people you’ll ever meet this side of the Mormons and only half as crazy!

    I used to live near the border and worked at a ski area popular with those north of it — wonderful people, if a bit strange.

  161. Lawnguylander said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:46

    The Obama Stimulus tax cut was it’s own thing and is not what is being extended here

    Wrong.

    For instance, a family earning $70,000 would see $1,400 more in their paychecks if the deal is approved. That’s $600 more than the current Making Work Pay credit.

    Meanwhile, those with children in college could continue to collect a tuition tax credit of up to $2,500, instead of seeing the credit fall to its pre-Recovery Act level of $1,800. Also, those who don’t pay federal income tax could continue to qualify for a refundable credit of up to $1,000.

    For lower-income Americans, the $1,000 child tax credit provision would offer a big financial boost. The deal would continue to allow those who earn as little as $3,000 to receive the credit, assisting 10.5 million families, according to the White House.

    Extending the lower threshold established by the Recovery Act means that a mother of two earning the minimum wage could keep claiming a credit of $1,725, rather than see it fall to $263, said Elizabeth Lower-Basch, senior policy analyst at the Center for Law and Social Policy, an advocacy group known as CLASP.

    “A thousand dollars is a significant amount of money if you are at the minimum wage,” she said.

    The tax cut deal also maintains a Recovery Act measure that provides additional assistance worth, on average, $600 to low-income families with three or more children who claim the Earned Income Tax Credit..

    None of this matter when deciding whether to support the deal because only concern trolls care about things like this that achieve “very little.” It’s clear that you have no idea what was in the stimulus and what elements of the stimulus are extended by this deal but don’t let that stop you from making comment after comment on the subject or offering up opinions on the tactical incompetence of the Obama negotiating team.

  162. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:58

    Lawnguylander-

    OFFS. *Facepalm*

    Ok, simple words. Bush tax plan, expiring. Obama tax plan =/= Bush tax plan.

    I’m not asking whether he’s including an extension of his own tax plan in the omnibus deal and letting it be conflated with the Bush tax plan for god knows what reason.

    I’m asking why we are supposed to care about the end of the Bush middle class tax cuts rather than focusing on the Obama extension of the Stimulus and the various other issues in the “deal bill”.

    I’m asking what the policy reason is for keeping the notorious Bush plan and why we need to scramble to save it rather than fighting for the merits of the Obama good stuff on its own.

    I understand the politics of it, due to massive political incompetence, but why the policy of it.

    Why did Obama need to fight for Bush’s tax plan and thus allow it to be married to his disadvantage to everything else.

    Why couldn’t he let it die and just fight for the Obama Omnibus We Give a Shit about the Poor and the Republicans don’t, even though it’s Christmas Bill?

    What’s the policy reason for fighting for Bush’s tax cuts?

    Though now you bring it up, why is he willing to sell his own tax cuts as Bush’s by conflating them? Is he an idiot? Does he like handing Republicans free political wins for no good reason? Did he personally rape to death anyone from his campaign team who had a good governing strategy idea?

  163. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 2:01

    And if he somehow married his Stimulus tax cuts to the Bush bill, I have only one question.

    Why the fuck would he ever do that? Seriously, it’s like going into a race and then deciding to just gouge out your hamstring for no good reason. If he did something that stupid, then I give up completely and agree with the nutjobs who believe that Obama wants the Right to win and is actively conspiring with them.

  164. Lawnguylander said,

    December 9, 2010 at 2:01

    Lawnguylander is not a troll.

    Thanks.

    mysticdog, if, by your definition, a concern troll is somebody you lack the capacity to debate directly then yes, I’m a concern troll. Otherwise I’m someone who’s been around here for more than 4 years and has different opinions on this deal than you do.

  165. Whale Chowder said,

    December 9, 2010 at 2:03

    Great, Fox News will lead tomorrow with “Reports have surfaced of Obama’s murder-by-rape of campaign workers!!1!”, just you wait.

  166. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 2:05

    I don’t know if the Canadians can beat the Danish in the niceness Olympics. The Danes were so nice that it was preternatural and almost frightening.

    To my American senses, it almost seemed like the beginning of a horror movie, where the whole town is just waiting to reveal they are robotic lizardmen who harvest the organs of all Outsiders…

    Huh…

    Not to alarm anyone, but does anyone know where my liver went. I could have sworn I had it before the flight home.

  167. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 2:07

    WC-

    I’m at the desperation level that I’d probably take a job selling them alarmist stories about Obama’s secret UN rape factories if I thought they’d actually offer me a living wage and health insurance.

    Weep for my poor battered soul.

  168. Substance McGravitas said,

    December 9, 2010 at 2:24

    I don’t know if the Canadians can beat the Danish in the niceness Olympics.

    We’ll beat the shit out of them until they beg to lose.

  169. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 2:27

    Substance-

    We’ll beat the shit out of them until they beg to lose.

    Yeah, see it’s things like that, that are behind the reasons you keep getting Silver.

    Maybe if you tried more liver-harvesting.

  170. Lawnguylander said,

    December 9, 2010 at 2:30

    These were pretty simple words:

    The Obama Stimulus tax cut was it’s own thing and is not what is being extended here

    I answered you.

    BTW, way up above you also said:

    And the Bush tax cuts to the middle class are useless and more than made up by the Obama middle class tax cuts in the Stimulus.

    No, they are very different types of tax cuts. One does not replace or make up for the other.

    Now, all this:

    Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 1:58 (kill)

    Because he believes that every element of the deal besides the upper income tax cuts is good politics and good policy. And I think he’s right.

    And if he somehow married his Stimulus tax cuts to the Bush bill, I have only one question.

    Because he wants to do these things, has an opportunity to do these things now and got the Republicans to agree to them. None of this is 11 dimensional chess or anything like that. The better question is, why didn’t he insist on getting more out of the negotiations like an up or down vote on DADT?

  171. jim said,

    December 9, 2010 at 2:35

    I don’t know if the Canadians can beat the Danish in the niceness Olympics.

    Highly doubtful … I’ve been watching my fellow Canucks slowly but surely turning into unarmed Americans with healthcare my entire life. We may have a Social Democrat party, but it’s become a standing joke even among its supporters. Back when Mulroney used his bully pulpit to turn back a push for returning to the death penalty, a lot of rednecks up here had a sad. Stephen “Kittens Are Both Nutritious & Delicious” Harper may be the only remaining leader in the West who still thinks Bush was a great president.

    Ostie tabarnac!

  172. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 2:41

    Lawnguylander-

    And the one question I want answered, no one who supports it is willing to answer.

    What is the policy (that is policy not politics) reason for the Bush tax cuts in specific. Because the middle class portion of said tax cuts were and still are shit and insulting shit at that.

    There may be good political reasons to do this, thanks to the way he screwed the pooch in setting this up. But I still don’t understand why the Bush-middle-class tax cuts were so important they needed to be why everything hinged on them and why Obama is so willing to marry his own additional middle class tax cuts on them.

    And at that point, I’m wondering how the fuck we all became slaves to the handful of people left in middle class and when bribing them with tax cuts on their already too low tax burdens became so crucial to the nation’s mechanisms that we’re willing to sacrifice huge numbers of more stimulative aid to the genuinely poor and the debate can’t even center on that.

    More to the point, how do we get out if we’ve reached a point where good economic policy can’t even get a debate and bad economic policy (everything is tax cuts, always) is the assumed starting point for all economic actions. How do we recover in order to have a functional government and stop the runaway plundering of our country by the super-rich, super-rich that aren’t even American anymore.

    I guess what I’m saying, is that it seems like we’ve just been clued in that not only is the ballgame over, but that the season ended months ago and our team was dissolved because of insolvency.

    And yet we’re asked to pretend that we’re still deep in postseason and there’s still a chance at the Championship.

  173. Mysticdog said,

    December 9, 2010 at 2:46

    Otherwise I’m someone who’s been around here for more than 4 years and has different opinions on this deal than you do.

    Oh please. Different opinions are fine, but you’ve been making snide comments for two days now about how all of us who dare disagree with your quite frankly ill-considered opinions are going to hurt people by demanding more than we have a right to demand, and Obama was just being practical adult. I’ve seen your arguments, they have not changed in the face of a lot of very practical concerns, and you’ve shown no willingness to tolerate others opinions on the subject.

    So honestly, you are just trolling. This is about you. I know you have been on the site a long time. That doesn’t change that you are concern trolling right now. You are telling us, over and over again, that by espousing liberal ideology and demanding the president respect his base that we are going to hurt the goals of liberal ideology. That is the very definition of concern trolling.

  174. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 2:51

    Lawnguylander-

    Actually, never mind. It seems actually caring that things have policy reasons in addition to politics reasons (especially when the politics is myopic and guaranteed to backfire) is “utopic ideological purity” and much like in the Bush years I’ve lost all hope that what we do on any level actually matters on the political level (rather than a social level that future political levels will disappoint regularly in order to appease their billionaire masters).

    God, I fucking hate this country.

    I’ll still vote Dem, I’ll still mobilize people and urge everyone to vote “Slowly stymie the painful eventual collapse Party”, but the idiotic, Keystone Cops level fuckwaddery from the actual Professional Left (i.e. those employed in our houses of Congress and by the President to advocate for and fight for good governance and liberal policies) with regards to the fake “professional left” (i.e. anyone who gives a shit about this country actually recovering and becoming a first world nation again, maybe even one we can be proud of in a loose sort of sense) is deliberately designed to demoralize the shit out of us.

    It’s working.

  175. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    December 9, 2010 at 2:56

    Lawnguylander said,

    December 9, 2010 at 2:01

    Lawnguylander is not a troll.

    Thanks.

    HA!

    Lawnguylander rates for Jerry.

    How much trollier could one get?

    None more trollier!
    ~

  176. Spengler Dampniche said,

    December 9, 2010 at 3:05

    FIRST!!!!

  177. El Cid said,

    December 9, 2010 at 3:05

    El Cid – so at what point do you say, enough? In two years, it’s going to be even tougher to roll back the Bush (now Obama) tax cuts for the rich, for election year reasons and because undoubtedly the hostages will be even more of the American people by that time. And forgive me if I don’t get too excited when Obama promises that in a couple of years he’s really going to kick the shit out of the can that he just kicked two years down the road. Grrr – tough guy! Everybody who actually wants to take the Goopers head-on right now is a big softy compared to him!

    “Enough” to what? I wasn’t exactly complimenting Obama in any way — but noting that in order to pass anything we still have as many Senators as we did in 2008 (the new class isn’t inaugurated yet) and we still have a number of asshole Senators who simply won’t vote for any of this shit.

    Obama could have done anything we could realistically imagine (I know, we’re talking hypothetical rather than real Obama), and these assholes like Lieberman and Nelson and so on will still much rather let all the tax breaks expire (which would in a lot of ways been better policy) and not do even the half-measure shit which was done on unemployment than let the tax cuts for income margins over $250K expire.

    Go ahead, say “enough”. It won’t get anyone anywhere.

    Personally I think that America has been lied to so much and enough of the public (especially but not solely the white South) is so god-damned stupid and barbaric that you could have a mecha-giant robot of FDR, LBJ, Lincoln, Washington, and whoever else combined and it would still be the same shit.

    I don’t know what to do. Democrats may have a large enough conservative segment and various bought-off but often valuable hacks (i.e., the Schumers who often do great things and then are Wall Street whores) to prevent anything from ever being done in the Senate.

    What threats would such right wing / pro-super-rich Democrats face? None. They get funding directly from big business and they don’t need the DNC.

    And anyway, it won’t be a problem because Democrats (i.e., the non-Khmer Rouge alternative) will never, ever have the kinds of numbers they did in 2008. I do think that destroying the Democracy For America grassroots national activist group by making it an Obama-controlled money-raising PR spouting whore force was an absolute crime.

    As was Democrats happily jumping on the train to call ACORN a bunch of worthless crooked n******, thus losing themselves the largest national voter registration and turnout organization in poor and minority communities I’m at all aware of there having been in the past several decades.

    I’m about as cynical lefty as possible, but I’m not sure how much different would have happened over the last two years had Obama followed every bit of my preferences. The fucking system protects itself and it has enough fucking servants in office to screw over anything truly major and decent aimed at reversing the all-out class war going on since the late 1960′s.

    People are free to say “enough”, for the fat lot of good likely it will do. Maybe it would do some, like reassuring a bunch of people that they’re sane.

    Maybe if I had $100 billion to use to fund commercials and independent radio stations and such it could make a big difference. But if I had that much money it would mean that I was not in fact the kind of person interested in completely turning the existing power system on its head.

    Maybe if people in other countries continue to refuse to put up with this attack on the majority disguised as bailouts and budget balancing and austerity and raise some hell, some of it could spread here.

    Likewise, if some of the long-term unemployed started making some serious trouble and kept doing it, there’s a small chance it could break in a more progressive (or whatever direction).

    I, however, am convinced that right now if there’s any mass populist movement it’s going to be a TeaTardist / militia sub-fascist movement because there isn’t the slightest echo of any sort of liberal or labor or left groups capable of such massive on-the-ground organizing. Maybe we could get some clever jokes on the Daily Show, and Special Comments on Olbermann, but where would it go farther?

  178. Bilo said,

    December 9, 2010 at 3:17

    El Cid wrote:
    “I, however, am convinced that right now if there’s any mass populist movement it’s going to be a TeaTardist / militia sub-fascist movement…”

    Yes. I’ve been fearing this for two years now. There is no left. The populists who are out there, running around, are skeery in many, myriad ways. (Like, say, worshipping a narcissistic leader who deems an Australian to be a “traitor” and “un-American”, among other dopey pronouncements.)

  179. Bilo said,

    December 9, 2010 at 3:24

    For some reason, I was just reminded of this Kurt Vonnegut quote:

    “During the Vietnam War, every respectable artist in this country was against the war. It was like a laser beam. We were all aimed in the same direction. The power of this weapon turns out to be that of a custard pie dropped from a stepladder six feet high.”

  180. Lawnguylander said,

    December 9, 2010 at 3:24

    A snide person is loose on the internet. What’s this world coming to?

    And no, you’re not the base, I’m the base (see how easy it is to declare one’s faction the base and see how stupid it sounds?) and my every bit as liberal as yours ideology demands that Congress and the President get those unemployment benefits and tax breaks for the working poor extended even if it means swallowing an extension of tax breaks for the rich. The middle class tax breaks are not as important but I think it would be a mistake not to extend them for reasons I’ve already given. As for not listening to other people’s opinions, I have been listening to them and disagreeing with them when I thought they were ill-considered and explaining why I thought so. Not just frankly declaring them ill-considered. Even raters for Tom know better than to do that because it just makes you look like a troll. Sure, everybody knows that it-diggity has some crackpot, borderline evil ideas about cartoon characters but at least he attempts to give decent, right-thinking folks like myself some justification for them. He doesn’t come close to succeeding but he tries. It’s because he has stones enough not to resort to argument by assertion. Dismissing him as a troll without trying to refute his fucked up anti-Jerry views would make me the troll.

  181. Spengler Dampniche said,

    December 9, 2010 at 3:26

    The American psyche is the largest pile of hyperbolic, reactionary, sanctimonious dogshit in the fucking world right now. How many times do we have to stick the fork in the light socket before we learn? I guess the answer to that has yet to be determined.

    Tsam, that’s the question I’m asking myself (one of two questions, actually, the other one being “does this hippopotamus eating crackers in my shorts make my ass look fat?”): how bad does it have to get before the “middle,” “independent” types, the only commoners the elites will give ear to, finally figure out that giant razor-wire wrapped object being shoved up their asses isn’t a pony?

    It looks like 25% unemployment at least before the folks back home are going to figure it out. And $20k in medical insurance costs every year, and x-ray scans to walk into the local library, and every other fucking house in the suburbs empty, burning, or filled with refugees from another suburb that already went down.

    I just can’t believe they’re so tuned out. But I predict, because I’m Father Fucking Christmas, Bitches, that by this time next year we’re going to be hearing a different sort of narrative in which the hoi polloi, instead of knocking off the sulking to make retailers happy for the holidays, are instead eating their dead.

    And that’s neat!

  182. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 3:26

    El Cid-

    If we can survive long enough, I suspect after enough old people die, we might start seeing some genuinely socialist mobilizing and the banding together of lots of aggrieved parties to be heard.

    We got a glimpse of that in the 2008 election, but the power brokers in the Democrat party have been doing their best to serve their real paymasters and try and squelch any real feeling on the Left that anything can be accomplished.

    Hell, I wonder if the reason things are so bad right now is entirely because the billionaires, Republicans, and Republican-sympathizing Democrats are really scared by what they saw in 2008 and are trying desperately to demotivate the left so they can get back to “the status quo”.

    The coming racial shift, the giant pressure cooker that is the disconnect between social viewpoints and policy, and the increasing belief that the system has been taken over by the monied seems to be creating something where the TV cameras try not to be.

    It has seemed like focusing on social motion has more successes, maybe the political hell of the last few years is the last few screams of a system straining against that social motion.

    The unfortunate question is whether or not America can survive the delay.

    I mean, we’re already a second-world nation, we have over a quarter of the population under-employed and starving and the system is too broken to let the next generation even have a chance of survival, much less success.

    Maybe the media can blunt the rage into a New Civil War or a Fascist America, maybe things will get really interesting and maybe there will simply be a lot of screaming and then all of a sudden we win, like in the 60s-70s.

    Maybe the sane countries of Europe will have enough of our shit and turn us into a vassal state.

    I’m clinging to straws, because the meantime sucks so very hard right now and I’m not sure what the best way to move from the potential to the actual. No one does.

  183. Pupienus Maximus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 3:29

    ENTERTAIN ME DAMNIT!

  184. the ugly hunchback that washes dishes and rings the dinner bell said,

    December 9, 2010 at 3:30

    News from the world of PENIS!!!

    The EU’s leading human rights agency has sharply criticised the Czech authorities for using a controversial method of testing whether homosexual asylum seekers are genuinely gay.

    The Fundamental Rights Agency said the Czech Republic was the only EU country still using a “sexual arousal” test.

    Gay asylum seekers are hooked up to a machine that monitors blood-flow to the penis and are then shown straight porn.

    Still using? How did I not hear about the tests that other EU countries have now discontinued?
    Also, I have questions about a test for those who may be lacking in peniscularity

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11954499

  185. Spengler Dampniche said,

    December 9, 2010 at 3:32

    Sorry, I didn’t realize there was a fight happening. You’re all faggots. Fuck you. That’s my opinion.

  186. Spengler Dampniche said,

    December 9, 2010 at 3:44

    Also, too, I’m with Cerberus. Washington is completely unaware the country has already fallen so far it’s only our sheer mass that keeps us from being irrelevant (well, that and all the bombs). The commoners need to see actual corpses on their lawns before they’re convinced something is systemically wrong and it’s not just lazy or unlucky people, the prescription for whom is fuck you, that’s what.

    I’m also concerned at various articles I’ve read recently that suggest the Ivy League kids being churned out today as future leaders are being conditioned for conformism, order-following, and management roles. There is nearly zero radicalism, zero nonconformism — and those institutions are turning out the vast majority of power-groomed intended leaders.

    So we’re not going to see any new ideas from them. Just ever-more clever refinements of the same shit we’re getting now. In some ways I think Obama is a test case for the type: he’s utterly without fire in the belly, a total conformist, but he tests well.

    I’m thinking if things get much worse I’ll sell everything, buy a $30k house in Maine with a few acres, and become an actual dirty fucking hippie. Peasants are the same everywhere, now and always. At least they have continuity.

  187. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 3:44

    PM-

    We have the decaying corpse of Kurt Cobain, is that good enough?

  188. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 3:49

    SD-

    It probably hasn’t helped Washington that they are actually treating Bush’s bullshit indicators of unemployment (the ones he deployed to make himself look slightly better with regards to the economy) as if they were accurate scientific measures and trying to treat the state of the economy as if those numbers at all applied to the reality of the situation.

    Basically, they are looking at a cardboard cutout of a thriving city plastered over the smoking ruins and nodding to themselves about how proactive we’re being.

    The actual, scientific, reality-based numbers are crippling in the stark picture they paint and anyone on the ground can see that the numbers betray an even grimmer reality.

    It’s part of the parcel of the disconnect between the state of politics and the state of actual social culture and of course the state of reality itself.

    There will be some nasty grindings of the gears as long as the dissonance at the political and media levels hold firm.

  189. Physical Educator NIck SABAN said,

    December 9, 2010 at 3:58

    The same shit happened with the healthcare bill. People were like, “Um, dudes, this thing blows,” and the response was “YOU DON’T CARE ABOUT PEOPLE WITH CHRONIC CONDITIONS AND PEOPLE WHO DON’T HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE!”

    Um, no. I have chronic conditions and I lived without health insurance for a couple of years. I know it sucks. I’ve stayed at a job that I’ve hated for years because it offers health insurance and I can’t afford to be without, and worked full-time while going to grad school because I knew that any insurance I could afford wouldn’t be enough for me.

    Just like if you cared about hunger, but cared even more that the poor not have to eat poor people food. You still care about hunger, but believe it’s better people starve to death than go without foie gras, right? TOTALLY NOT MORALLY SUSPECT.

    I will try taking your feelings of concern (aka, McCainCare) instead of insulin — if you don’t hear from me again you’ll know how it worked out. The fact that you care makes any evil perpetuated by your unwillingness to compromise 100% not your fault…

  190. Enraged Bull Limpet said,

    December 9, 2010 at 3:59

    Gee, you-all are more fun than a barrel of marmosets tonight.

    Leonard Cohen in 1.5 hours… hope it helps

  191. Physical Educator NIck SABAN said,

    December 9, 2010 at 4:01

    I mean, you guys realize that most libertarians/conservatives don’t ACTUALLY want people starving in the street, but believe that ideological purity/”preserving traditional values”/whatever is more important than feeding them?

  192. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    December 9, 2010 at 4:05

    Oh what, I have to get Sirius?

    Fucking Dog Star!

    Dammit!

    Sorry, El Cid and Lawnguylander. But if you’re going to make the argument that this deal is the best we can do, than I’m going to ask “How did we get here?”

    And that is going to lead to more of “this is the best we can do, forever”.

    Because corporatist suckups like Obama (I voted for him in the primary and general, and I don’t think Hillary would have been any better) will never do well in a battle against their fellow corporatist suckups on the gooper side. Not over the long term.

    Fuck eleventy-dimensional chess.

    The evidence shows that Obama would get his ass kicked at checkers by Dave Broder. Maybe even Jim Hoft.
    ~

  193. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 4:14

    I mean, you guys realize that most libertarians/conservatives don’t ACTUALLY want people starving in the street, but believe that ideological purity/”preserving traditional values”/whatever is more important than feeding them?

    Citation Needed.

    No seriously, this assertion is not very well supported and a very compelling argument could be put forth that owing to issues of carefully nurtured resentment, the current libertarian/conservative mess is actively committed to seeing people starving in the street as long as they are the right color or it causes a hippie to be sad.

    An even more compelling argument can be offered that that is what is currently happening. Something around a quarter of people right now are under-nourished and in the “starvation” category with regards to hunger.

    A lot more have to make a choice between starvation and an undernourishment that will have massive health consequences in the future or starvation and things like proactive management of health care or starvation or their children’s starvation.

    But because this mostly happens to black and brown people in areas that historically vote liberal, we collectively haven’t given a shit for decades. Now that the system has collapsed so bad that every white person under a certain age is in that situation and even some formerly middle class white people are in that situation, we are slowly even bothering to notice.

    Hell, we had Hoovertowns during Bush’s administration, literal ram-shackle homeless cities.

    But the main issue is that “the wrong people” are getting “the right white libertarian’s money” in evil government socialism.

    It’s all code for, yes, the right literally wants us to starve to death and die, because they are more married to “their team winning” (or rather our team losing) than anything else.

  194. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 9, 2010 at 4:25

    The evidence shows that Obama would get his ass kicked at checkers by Dave Broder. Maybe even Jim Hoft.

    This. Like I mentioned previously, Obama’s position now means he owes a huge fricking apology to Joe the Plumber. Wurzelbachter has outsmarted Barry – and he did it two fucking years in advance. That’s a rout. By a moron.

    This deal is bad fucking shit. It’s garbage. DA’s linked NYTimes piece mentions a few who have problems. The estate tax provision is so fucking egregious that Kent Conrad doesn’t like them. Mary Landrieu thinks extending the Bush tax cuts is a dumb idea. Mary fucking Landrieu, who voted for them in the first place.

    As for this whole “hostage” thing? Bull-fucking-shit. I call Shenanigans! Middle-class tax cuts? Like those are really going to expire. Maybe it is bad policy as Cerberus suggests, but if that was the issue on their own, you’d get unanimous Senate consent on it. UI extension? Look where that money’s going. Sure the GOP love anything that hurts California, but a lot of that money is essentially earmarked for the Deep South.

    If the GOP are intransigent because they want to run the show, I say let the fuckers run the show. Make them bring you their concessions to extend their precious tax cuts – because the clock isn’t running out on “the American people” or on the Democratic party – it’s running out on taxes on estates between 1 million and 5 million fucking dollars.

  195. Cerberus said,

    December 9, 2010 at 4:26

    Addendum to self-

    Hell, according to Tucker Carlson’s rag, food stamps need to be targeted and eliminated because if you can waste an entire month’s allotment, you can buy one expensive meal, instead of enough to be painfully undernourished if you’re trying to make it the full 30 days.

    And can we forget the number of wingnuts mocked on this very site attacking food kitchens and the idea that poor people should get something cheap and nourishing rather than watery gruel or nothing at all?

    So yeah, the wingnuts and their monied masters have so completely wrapped their self-esteem around a social darwinist view of economics, that they have literally declared war on the poor and literally would rather they starve to death somewhere out of sight rather than in any way be tended to.

    It’s a harsh reality, but them’s the breaks when you are dealing with reality and it’s well-known liberal bias.

  196. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    December 9, 2010 at 4:29

    Er, exemptions on estate taxes. Ah well, it was a pretty good rant right up to the end.

  197. Substance McGravitas said,

    December 9, 2010 at 4:42

    ENTERTAIN ME DAMNIT!

    http://twitter.com/kathrynlopez/status/12508167959220224

    Via.

  198. Spengler Dampniche said,

    December 9, 2010 at 4:48

    It’s so bad I’ve been looking at what it costs to buy RV parks — not trailer parks, but the weekender places on rivers and whatnot — as possible ‘let’s sit out the fall of empire somewhere kind of fun’ locations. $200-400k in various parts of the country gets you a few acres of arable land, a recreation facility with a convenience store, showers and commercial washing machines, and a bunch of camp sites with water hookups, electric, and sewage lines.

    It’s fucking weird. I’m fantasizing about end-times plans. Start up an artist’s colony: bring your own airstream and tools. We’ll live on home-grown cabbages and lichen. Maybe drop a turbine generator in the river.

    Weird.

  199. Larkspur said,

    December 9, 2010 at 4:56

    What is that beautiful house? Where does that highway go to? Am I right, am I wrong? My God. What has I done?

    If I were Canada, I’d be seriously going over my immigration laws right now, to make sure everything is in place before Americans start spilling over the border. I mean, we say we’re going to skip the country like we believe someone is always going to let us in.

  200. Substance McGravitas said,

    December 9, 2010 at 5:04

    Canada relies on America for most of its business. So while there’s more of a tradition of, um, adequacy in Canada there is also a need for chubby Yankees to buy stuff. PLEASE DON’T COLLAPSE YOU RETARDS.

  201. Larkspur said,

    December 9, 2010 at 5:15

    I have this idea about how we can become gloriously rich again by inviting lots and lots of Chinese tourists here to experience our experience. You know, like a zoo. I live north of San Francisco, so I could play a Miwok villager grinding acorns into flour, or possibly a DFH in a meadowy compound, doing two hour shifts wherein I marvel at how the freckles on my arms sing to me.

    Other people could do Custer’s Last Stand, or Little House on the Frozen Desolate Prairie. It would be hard to start up, because we’d have to know what happened in our history, and there’s a big damn learning curve. Tourists are gonna get bored by tea party re-enactments real fast.

  202. smiling dog said,

    December 9, 2010 at 5:17

    Obama is essentially a corporate trojan horse. It’s high time that we just admit that we were duped by the guy. I would love to see a real candidate from the actual Left take him on in the primary.

  203. Larkspur said,

    December 9, 2010 at 5:28

    I would love to see a real candidate from the actual Left take him on in the primary.

    Me too! We could stage that scene right after the Miwok village and before the Quake o’ the Month Re-enactment. But would it be credible?

  204. Chris said,

    December 9, 2010 at 5:32

    There is nearly zero radicalism, zero nonconformism — and those institutions are turning out the vast majority of power-groomed intended leaders.

    Eh. There’s radicalism and nonconformism, but 10 Things I Hate About You (don’t judge) has them pretty well pegged;

    “Over here, you have your rastas, big Marley fans, think they’re black. Semi-political, but mostly -”
    “They just smoke a lot of weed?”
    “Right.”

    Also smell like shit covered in rat barf and dragged through a Philadephia sewer. I don’t know what the counterculture was like back in the 1960s and 1970s, but right now it’s a self-parody.

    Still plenty of good people who want to make things better. But I didn’t find much institutional support for them. A lot of them end up going into things like the Peace Corps or Teach For America or their smaller equivalents, and probably end up being a boon to the world around them for the rest of their lives. But there’s not really anything to channel that sentiment into political action on a macro scale.

    Which seems like a universal problem. The feeling’s there, but the institutions’ve been getting the shit beaten out of them for thirty years.

  205. Spengler Dampniche said,

    December 9, 2010 at 5:44

    Chris, agreed. Essentially we’ve been ducked, knucked, and triple-fucked.

  206. smiling dog said,

    December 9, 2010 at 5:52

    Larkspur,
    Point taken. Every once in awhile I get a tiny twinge of false hope and someone needs to be there to squash it, so thank you. In terms of reenactments, I’m personally more into dressing up as Nero and playing a fiddle. It’s a bit retro, but there isn’t a more modern paralell and Empires generally only collapse once.

  207. Larkspur said,

    December 9, 2010 at 6:00

    Sorry, smiling dog. I hate to squash anything, even bugs. We will need music, though. Empires collapse real slow, especially when you’re in one as it goes. Like, the Hundred Years’ War you can cover in a few paragraphs, but the damn thing took one hundred freakin years in real time.

  208. Chris said,

    December 9, 2010 at 6:00

    Chris, agreed. Essentially we’ve been ducked, knucked, and triple-fucked.

    Unpleasant, but a fact.

    Look at it this way; at the end of the day, the inbred puddles of piss calling themselves Real Americans will get fucked as thoroughly as the rest of us. And the really sad thing is that if I had their mentality, that would actually be all it takes to make me feel better about it.

  209. Lurking Canadian said,

    December 9, 2010 at 6:04

    If I were Canada, I’d be seriously going over my immigration laws right now, to make sure everything is in place before Americans start spilling over the border.

    We’re going to have to build a damned fence to keep all you wetbacks out, is what.

    But, more seriously, our post NAFTA economy turned us into a parts supplier for you people and so binds us to you with titanium chains. If you go down, we don’t have very long to point and laugh until we follow you.

  210. The Tragically Flip said,

    December 9, 2010 at 6:04

    Nick:

    I mean, you guys realize that most libertarians/conservatives don’t ACTUALLY want people starving in the street, but believe that ideological purity/”preserving traditional values”/whatever is more important than feeding them?

    At best they believe people starving etc is necessary or unavoidable so what they want is to ensure it isn’t them because at heart it’s all a big zero-sum game to them. They’re malthusians and no matter how much excess we produce they reject the idea that we can at least make sure everyone has enough to get by since it will necessarily mean not enough for them.

    But yes, some of them do want others to suffer. It’s not ideological per se, but pathological, a pathology tied to conservative ideology but not of it directly.

  211. Bilo said,

    December 9, 2010 at 6:12

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesusland_map

  212. Chris said,

    December 9, 2010 at 6:15

    But yes, some of them do want others to suffer. It’s not ideological per se, but pathological, a pathology tied to conservative ideology but not of it directly.

    It’s the difference between the “official” party line (charity and kindness are wonderful, but the government shouldn’t do it, people should do it themselves) and the Ayn Rand line – fuck the poor, they deserve it and you shouldn’t help them or anyone else unless they’re a material benefit in it for you.

    And look just how popular Ayn Rand is on the right.

  213. Bilo said,

    December 9, 2010 at 6:21

    Some of them do want others starving in the street. Some because they’re mean, some because they have an ideology that says that it’s not enough that some succeed, others must not be rewarded if they don’t *deserve*. (Also, it’s an ideology that’s attractive to the mean and selfish.) And some (the churchier types) like having beggars so they can feel better about having tossed a few crumbs of charity their way. Both the churchy and the libertarian love to rail about how wunnerful charity is and how HORRIBLE it is when the gubmint FORCES them to pay taxes and then gives it to somebody who doesn’t DESERVE.

    As Will Munny said, Deserves got nothing to do with it.

  214. Chris said,

    December 9, 2010 at 6:27

    Bilo said,
    December 9, 2010 at 6:21

    “They are a motely collection; a mixture of the weak seeking protection, the ambitious seeking some shared glory, and the thuggish gravitating towards leaders who could show them more refined forms of cruelty.”

  215. Anonymous said,

    December 9, 2010 at 7:29

    I just can’t believe they’re so tuned out. But I predict, because I’m Father Fucking Christmas, Bitches, that by this time next year we’re going to be hearing a different sort of narrative in which the hoi polloi, instead of knocking off the sulking to make retailers happy for the holidays, are instead eating their dead.

    I smell an NYT BESTSELLER!

  216. TSAM GODDAMNIT said,

    December 9, 2010 at 7:30

    Anonymous = tsam in the case of the above post.

  217. tsamnit said,

    December 9, 2010 at 7:37

    “They are a motely collection; a mixture of the weak seeking protection, the ambitious seeking some shared glory, and the thuggish gravitating towards leaders who could show them more refined forms of cruelty.”

    Who, with every incremental step toward their ultimate end, add another letter to the signature of their own death warrants.

    Why does it seem like it shouldn’t take a particularly high intellect to be able understand the concept that “shit happens” and one could easily find himself on the business end of “fuck the poor”? Oh, I know, because it doesn’t. I tend to think they know this, and would, without hesitation, demand help from the government and everyone else if they suddenly found themselves jobless and homeless–while putting on the stoic face for the teevee news cameras, of course.

  218. tsamnit said,

    December 9, 2010 at 7:38

    If you go down, we don’t have very long to point and laugh until we follow you.

    If I were you, I’d almost consider it worth it.

  219. Mysticdog said,

    December 9, 2010 at 8:21

    You’re all faggots. Fuck you. That’s my opinion

    You see, that I can respect :)

    It would be hard to start up, because we’d have to know what happened in our history, and there’s a big damn learning curve.

    I hear China is short on women, maybe we can sell those to them. Get back to our Roots, so to speak.

  220. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 8:40

    I LOVE YOUSE GUYS!

  221. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 8:41

    PS Get ready for FTR!

  222. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 8:44

    FTR 2010 is happening at a town near you … sign up early and often

  223. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 8:45

    FTR 2010 may be tax deductable

  224. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 8:47

    FTR 2010 may not be tax deductable

  225. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 8:47

    FTR 2010 may or may not be tax deductable

  226. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 8:48

    who will be at FTR 2010?

  227. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 8:48

    stay tuned

  228. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 8:52

    why got to FTR 2010? because if you do, you get to get in on the ground floor of FTR

  229. D. Aristophanes said,

    December 9, 2010 at 8:56

    Who will be at FTR 2010?

    D. Aristophanes*
    M. K. Shamalan
    M. Damon
    M. Obama
    T. J. T. N.
    L. Chewbacca
    M. T. N.
    Lawnguylanderguy
    Lwngyland
    Whale Chowder
    E. Presley

    … and many more!

    *cancellation of appearance possible

  230. justme said,

    December 9, 2010 at 9:05

    I tend to think they know this, and would, without hesitation, demand help from the government and everyone else if they suddenly found themselves jobless and homeless–while putting on the stoic face for the teevee news cameras, of course.

    Ya think?

    Money quote,

    I’ve been on food stamps and welfare, did anybody help me out? No. No.

  231. 5thKolumnisto said,

    December 9, 2010 at 10:39

    Hell, according to Tucker Carlson’s rag, food stamps need to be targeted and eliminated because if you can waste an entire month’s allotment, you can buy one expensive meal, instead of enough to be painfully undernourished if you’re trying to make it the full 30 days. . .

    And the “investigative journalist” that wrote the piece, Matthew Boyle, appears to have committed welfare fraud during his investigation. The fool doesn’t know that the money Mommy and Daddy pay for his rent is income–even though he got a deduction because his rent is more than half his reported income.

    I had to break my No Snitchin’ rule on this one. If you read it you probably feel the same. This should get you started:

    Denise E. Nedab, Chief
    Alternate: Muriel Gregory
    DC Department of Human Services
    Office of Program Review, Monitoring and Investigation
    216 Georgia Avenue, NW, Room 113
    Washington, DC 20009
    202-576-9444 Fax: 202-576-9481

  232. jim said,

    December 9, 2010 at 10:45

    If I were you, I’d almost consider it worth it.

    Having already dined at the Chateau Garbage-Bin & slept at the Alfresco Bed & Breakfast, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t … anyway, if I liked schadenfreude THAT much, I’d be much too busy pushing random pedestrians into traffic to ever come here.

    Get ready for FTR!

    Filipino Transvestite Reference?

  233. M. Bouffant said,

    December 9, 2010 at 11:02

    Photo fun (Lookism!): Bradlee Dean, then & more recently.

    Loving G-Zis is a hard road to hoe. Though to be fair, being an asshole 24/7 can take it out of you too.

  234. Lurking Canadian said,

    December 9, 2010 at 13:44

    I tend to think they know this, and would, without hesitation, demand help from the government and everyone else if they suddenly found themselves jobless and homeless–while putting on the stoic face for the teevee news cameras, of course.

    What you are all missing is that when a Hard Working Real American (TM) falls on hard times, it’s through no fault of his–just bad luck, really–so he deserves some help getting back on his feet.

    On the other hand Those People just suck at the government teat because they like it. They probably on food stamps so they can buy expensive dinners at Whole Foods, anyway, and the ones who are really poor are poor because they made Bad Choices.

    Honestly, that’s how these assholes think. How they claim to be following the religious teachings of a man who spent his time with hookers, lepers, foreigners and social outcasts while doing so is the mystery I have not yet been able to solve.

  235. vacuumslayer said,

    December 9, 2010 at 13:51

    M, this just goes to show that sooner or later all wingnut media personalities morph into Rush Limbaugh. I believe even K-Lo is headed that way.

  236. vacuumslayer in a cowboy hat and boots said,

    December 9, 2010 at 14:31

    I once killed a thread just to watch it die.

  237. M. Bouffant said,

    December 9, 2010 at 14:37

    Hell, K-Lo is K-Leading the way.

  238. Chris said,

    December 9, 2010 at 14:40

    I tend to think they know this, and would, without hesitation, demand help from the government and everyone else if they suddenly found themselves jobless and homeless–while putting on the stoic face for the teevee news cameras, of course.

    Just to add to what everyone else’s said already; this a million times. Or as Rolling Stone put it,

    Vast forests have already been sacrificed to the public debate about the Tea Party: what it is, what it means, where it’s going. But after lengthy study of the phenomenon, I’ve concluded that the whole miserable narrative boils down to one stark fact: They’re full of shit. All of them. At the voter level, the Tea Party is a movement that purports to be furious about government spending — only the reality is that the vast majority of its members are former Bush supporters who yawned through two terms of record deficits and spent the past two electoral cycles frothing not about spending but about John Kerry’s medals and Barack Obama’s Sixties associations. The average Tea Partier is sincerely against government spending — with the exception of the money spent on them. In fact, their lack of embarrassment when it comes to collecting government largesse is key to understanding what this movement is all about — and nowhere do we see that dynamic as clearly as here in Kentucky, where Rand Paul is barreling toward the Senate with the aid of conservative icons like Palin.

    New method of suicide drinking game; every time a teabagger takes welfare, we take a shot.

  239. Chris said,

    December 9, 2010 at 14:42

    Honestly, that’s how these assholes think. How they claim to be following the religious teachings of a man who spent his time with hookers, lepers, foreigners and social outcasts while doing so is the mystery I have not yet been able to solve.

    Well, Europe spent a thousand years (give or take a thousand more) believing that 1) Jesus Christ was the messiah and Christianity was his religion, and 2) It was the duty of every Christian to friggin hate Die Juden with every fiber in his soul.

    Solve that mystery and you’ll have solved all the others.

  240. vacuumslayer in a cowboy hat and boots said,

    December 9, 2010 at 14:43

    Silly, it’s not welfare when it’s for THEM.

  241. Chris said,

    December 9, 2010 at 14:47

    Also, this is wonderful news;

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20101208/ts_yblog_thelookout/wikileaks-cable-hollywood-helping-to-stop-the-spread-of-terrorism

    I expect a Bill Whittle essay or video any minute singing the glory of the American pop culture which is taking the globe by storm and thus proving our exceptionalism.

    A week or two later, he’ll shit out an essay about how Hollywood hates America and is run by the Left which means it’s sympathizing with Islam. It’ll all be central to his point.

  242. Chris said,

    December 9, 2010 at 14:47

    vacuumslayer in a cowboy hat and boots

    Very classy.

  243. smedley said,

    December 9, 2010 at 14:49

    Over at WaPo (link not provided, because it is the Washington Fucking Post), Broder has passed judgement on “The Deal”: He likes it. Big Fucking Surprise. He especially liked the part where Obama kicks the DFHs around.

  244. Ted the Slacker said,

    December 9, 2010 at 15:19

    Jack Tapper EXCLUSIVE:

    Sarah Palin is a whiny fuckhead.

    I dunno what’s more absurd, Palin believing that calling for the assassination of Julian Assange is an act of bravery, or claiming to be the only person to have spoken out against Wikileaks while “others” have remained silent.

    Still, as usual, the more full of shit Palin is, the more quickly her supporters flock to her defense.

  245. Snort said,

    December 9, 2010 at 15:45

    vacuumslayer in a cowboy hat and boots

    That’s it? Ooo-la-la, Mr VS must be happy.

  246. actor212 said,

    December 9, 2010 at 16:39

    But I still don’t understand why the Bush-middle-class tax cuts were so important they needed to be why everything hinged on them and why Obama is so willing to marry his own additional middle class tax cuts on them.

    Simple.

    People in the middle are more likely to spend them. The “logic” from the far right is that they’ll do dangerous things like pay down mortgages or put it away for their kids college, but here’s the counterargument:

    By allowing them to do that, use it for things they are already committed to, you’re allowing other parts of their income to be availabe to spend.

    That’s an economic stimulus.

  247. WWII's Unit 731:::Tsushogo was a clue from the Gods illustrating their positioning long before it began. Incidentally, the used it to hurt the Chinese and position against future sucess, concealing Japanese atrocities. said,

    December 10, 2010 at 0:21

    The Gods send clues about this situation frequently.
    Eddie of Iron Maiden.
    Closure of Fitsgeralds Reno/getting kicked out of Fits LV 1990 for “counting cards” after 5 minutes and $20:::Accusation of the innocent.
    WWII’s other holocaust:::Unit 731:::tsushogo. Tsushogo was a clue from the Gods illustrating their positioning long before it began. Incidentally, the used it to hurt the Chinese and position against future Japanese sucess by burying their atrocities.
    The Concorde.
    More below::The Gods have created an endless list over the last four+ decades. This Situation is a monster.

    Never forget::The Gods have created positioning to conceal their true intent in each and every dyanmic we see in society.
    We truely live in The Matrix:::There is the way things look and there is the God’s REAL reason for doing things.

    Employment charity:::Was W able to do his job as President?
    I suspect there are many frat-boy types who could not or would rather not have studied nor do the work necessary so they gained this “benefit” telepathically. This could have been extended to their professional life as well::In most of these cases they don’t have what it takes to do their jobs.
    I think employment charity is FAR more common than people may believe.
    Another example how they tempted people in this manner is the procurement of sexual relations.
    Consistant with The Matrix, the Gods positioned both to these people which gained their confidence. But what they don’t know is this behavior actually hurts them::They were offered temptation and they fell for it. And one day, if they are to have a future, they will be punished.
    Keep raping these poor girls. You’re going to end up as one in your next life.

    Capitalism is evil because of the exploitative nature, illustrated with this Situation.
    Muslims are correct:::Earning interest is evil.
    Unlike war, which is a temporary period where the citiens incurr evil due to the decisions of the leaders, capitalism by its very nature incurrs evil for those who participate into perpetuity, an “institutional” method of incurring evil for the disfavored who engage in it. Inherant in earning interest is the exploitation of others, capitalizing on assets and exploiting the workforce for profit.
    Understand the destructive nature of this element of evil we call the United States, for it spreads this cancer under the guise of “democracy” throughout the world.
    Look for other institutional evil as related to the United States because as the land of disfavor castoff rejects there will be plenty of examples.

    Examine my examples. They illustrate the God’s reverse positioning used to confuse and disceive people who have made big mistakes in past lives.
    I illustrate a certain way to think. If you doubt what I teach, if this is not your time to learn please at least completely understand this way of thinking, because when your time does come you will be able to refer to it and you will begin to see the God’s pattern within the context of their positioning.
    Nobody is going to save you. Christianity is a lie. And only through thinking correctly will you have a real chance to begin doing the right things.

    Typical for the young, they become corrupt and remain ignorant for a period of time in their lives, typically until their children are raised and grown. Poetic justice ensures they receive a similar experience when reincarnated.
    Fighting these wars hurts everyone because we all pay for the sins of our leaders, and by participating these ignornat youth make it possible for these events to occurr. So even if you are against the war, since you are a citizen you incurr because of the evil your country is engaged in.
    And there is no getting around it.
    Artifical Intelligence is one of the God’s tools, all of which are used as temptation. And it will always test the young with this temptation of “earning”, sadly leading to a lifetime of corruption.

    Students becoming angry and violent in the UC protests. Beggining to remind me of labor riots of the 20th century.
    We all know what’s happening here:::These white men at the top have voted themselves $400k pay and retirement packages like the $340k retired fire chief, loading up their friends on the payroll during the boom 90s through the real estate bust while all services which the program were intended to fund now get cut to pay for it.
    Incidentally, corporate sucessfully transistioned to cheap labor in nearly ALL “muscle” industries. Why should fire be any different??
    It was temptation, and the Gods are going to make them pay for it. Unfortunately, so will everybody else:::
    Reincarnation is very real. It is OUR national debt. And odds are you’re all coming back to the United States::Like the ghetto, you have to “earn” your way out.

    Anger about Messerlee. Understandable.
    They need to understand this man was pushed into the offense. Cops have been getting away with killings like this for a long time. Blacks in the South know this all too well. Each time they were all confident the Blue Shield would protect them, and it did. The difference is in many IF NOT MOST of these cases they were rogue cops who the Gods tempted. They did it intentionally thinking they were “earning”, knowing they would get away with it. Contradictory to appearances, they were the ones whom the Gods disliked, while the Messerlees of the world who get caught are being punished, feedback reserved for those whom are still qualified in the eyes of the Gods.
    There are those in the ghetto whom are singled out, targets of the community whom everybody hates. The rogue cops in the South who are guilty of these kind of killings have been reincarnated into roles like this. It’s just one of the clues the Gods offer to the community. Lucky for those preditors the ghetto has been an ignorant community, but I think that might be changing.

    Of course there could be anoher possibility:::::Due to the history and resulting legacy of hatred for the Gods, since I am guarenteed a spot on the next Planet Earth I will be the original “bad seed”:::The Lucifer-figure of the next reality. Unlike Christian dogma, he may just represent the solitary target of the God’s ire early, a disgruntled asshole who pissed the Gods off, the proverbial “apple” of the next reality, beginning the process which leads planets to where we are today. A crucial figure in any planet’s history, he represents the “beginning of the end”.

    People, especially liberals give W a very hard time.
    Don’t forget what I say:::Everything today is both good and evil. The Gods have positioned it as such as we have become increasingly disfavored, confusing the enviornment.
    Republicans and conservatives as well, only they fall more on the good side while their adversaries fall more on the evil side, quite contrary to the God’s positioning.
    Yes, W’s evil is illustrated in the United State’s efforts in Iraq, and the “Red State”r’s who believe we were “earning” are among the worst of them.
    If conservatives fall on the side of good, Fox News falls on the side of evil. They pander to the type of trash my brother is, the kind of trash who thinks their war mongering efforts “earn” for them and all others who think like them.
    Anyways, it is positioned that W trashed the economy before he left office. Selfish it didn’t happen while he was in office, granted, but economic turmoil is a motivator. It’s not cancer, mind you, but many have begun praying hard because of their experinces in this event, and it says something about those affected as opposed to those sheltered from affect.
    One day just as they will allow vaccines to diseases, especially AIDS, encouraging deviacy the likes which hasn’t been seen since the 70s, they will allow cures for cancer, MS, COPD, alcoholism, etc.
    Women’s diseases will be last. Just as research into women’s diseases receive the least amount of funding so is it justified their cures come last, and both for the same reason:::They have the most favor, and the Gods use their diseases as a motivator to pray and find the path. As such they get God’s benefit as long as they are willing to offer it.

    I suspect many attempts have begun already, but as time goes on the Gods will test people’s religious resolve with an insurmuntable positioning stating Christianity is the one true religion. We’ve seen their efforts in Latin America, in the Philippines and most recently in Vietnam, India and the demonizing of Islam.
    They intend to test your resolve as Muslims, for those who sell out and flee to Christianity will be subject to their positioning.
    Blacks are the most disfavored of all people. We see it in their temptation-ridden culture, which the Civil Rights “assimilation” has allowed, in their sexual behavior. The Gods used their position of the Italians to do their dirty work, implimenting the crack epidemic, the black civil war of the 80s and 90s, AIDS in Africa, “pimp” subculture, etc. The Gods created this positioning of Italian’s preditory behavior on Africans to reflect their own disfavor towards that group, allowing them to get what they want without accepting culpability, convieniently. As such, come the Apocalypse those who abandon their true selves, their religion and their dedication to it will be victims in this deceptive Christian theater.
    Blacks that opt for the “easy way out” will ironically lose their lives in the Apocalypse. Only those who remain true to their religion, its strict methods and lifestyle, and resist the outside temptations stating their are going the wrong way will emerge out of the carnage of The End of Time. They are highly suspectable to temptation and they need their religion to help them be strong and resist it. They will be better people for it and superior to the Christians in the end.

    This is the life of utmost importance. People need to listen, understand and learn from me and make the changes I prescribe. Without, they will have no chance at ascending into heaven before the Apocalypse, and the only hope they will have is 1000 years with Jesus, which is no sure thing.
    Even so, assuming they are rewarded with 1000 years with Jesus, they will be offered all manners of temptations, for it will be THE Big Party at The End, and if they don’t address these problems now, while they have this chance to learn this activity is evil, before society declares it socially acceptable, they will be granted some fraction of 1000 years and be disposed of thereafter, when the party “dies down”, pardon the pun.
    Also, disgusted by their behavior, the Gods have created a subculture which celebrates partying in the black community, guarenteeing that “requirement” is satisfied so they are never “invited”.
    Only those people who never began the temptations or who addressed these issues and remedied the problems will move on to the next Planet Earth. And we are still approximately 4 lifetimes away, most of which I expect to be revelry years::A population either getting their party now or groomed for a short stay after the Apocalypse. By that time even the most conservative Christian will be tested to see if they can establish this destructive legacy of revelry.
    Move on to a new Planet Earth. This is their second chance::::They have to start over. Either they ascend into heaven from their planet of origin or they don’t ascend as all, and that’s how the system works.
    It’s a very small population which exists at the dawn of agrarianism because most have sccumbed to temptation and failed to achieve their second chance on the new Planet Earth.

    I have said diseases, such as cancer, won’t be going anywhere, no matter how much money is thrown at it, no matter how much money is raised. These diseases are important tools used by the Gods to help people do the right thing:::Cancer has compelled more than a few women to begin praying and behave appropriately.
    In this environment of decay, the Gods will eventually eliminate these motivations one day. Positioning states cures/vaccines are positive developments which display life is improving. Unfortunately, this is just another example of how the Gods utilize “reverse positioning” which has been very effective in promoting deceptive elements in society, such as democracy, Christianity and Californication, Hollywood being the primary tool used to spread the message of The Beast.
    Similarly, other motivations which have complelled people to turn to the Gods for solice will begin to disappear as well::::Economic recession/turmoil, Unlike the Christian Bible’s version, the Apocalypse will not be preceeded by ruin and desperation. Just the opposite, there will be peace and personal satisfaction leading to The End, ensuring the Gods can control the group selected for the Second Coming event.

    The irony of the Apocalypse::::
    People told not to follow the Second Coming, who fail to recognize the urgency of the moment and die in the Apocalypse because of it.
    The Gods will account for people who do not sell out to Christianity, however difficult due to temptation.
    It will become difficult to remain Muslim in this environment. It will be positioned that everyone except Christians are The Damned and will die come The End.
    This positioning, and how all this goes down come the Apocalypse, will just be the God’s attempt at testing people with temptation, for it will matter in The End to those whom suceed.

    Christianity is responsible for African slavery. The Italian men who ran the church set out to gain revenge for the invasion of Italy and, still the largest landowner in Europe, used their considerable clout with the thrones of England to achieve this.
    The Gods used Christianity to destroy the cultures of Europe and around the world, replaced with the patriarchal standard which it imposed.
    The Gods used temptation to compell the Italians to do their dirty work for them, punishment for evils of black people, and that extened into the 20th century with Civil Rights, the crack epidemic, gang membership/the “thug life” and even AIDS in Africa, a recycling of the biotechnology product originally intened for the gay community.
    As with everything there is always a real reason behind their positioning, and in both cases it is punishment for deviate behavior.

    Being “schitzo”, the internal battle between good and evil, is a deteriorating generational issue that is dying off, much like I illustrated for punishment below:::
    This new generation, who were the grandparents of their parents, are an early evil generation and one whom became corrupted and fell for societal temptation readily available for them and every generation of the masses thereafter.
    Their parents came before that generation, the agrarian masses, God-fearing, absent for the temptation offerings of early modern society (Roaring 20s vs. 60s/70s). As a result whereas Dad has great internal conflict I refer to as schitzo because of his connection to his past his children will be less so, perhaps far less so depending on grade of sins in their prior life, decreasing generationally until they have all become Godless, immoral monsters.

    “Californication” – The tool the Gods use to brainwash the people, amplifying disfavor level as we approach the Apocalypse by merely fitting into society.
    Poisoning their brainwashed minds…corrupted by society, AI convinces people “earning” is the way, compelling them into evil. This is falling for temptation, while Californication ensures at least a minimal amount of damage, ensuring a minimal amount of generational progress towards the Apocalypse.
    I demand another. I have signed off. Give the disfavored another and without all the defensive tactics, cowards.
    Pick out someone else, do this again and discard this Situation.
    The people who have learned were going to learn anyways. They’re not the ones who need it.
    The disfavored need it, people like my family, too far gone for any hope at ascention before The End, and they should be allowed moments if not periods of clarity before the decision is made about them.
    “Decay is inherent in all component things. Work out your own salvation with diligence.” – Buddha

    I have explained how the gods are phasing out punishment as we get closer to the Apocalypse. Disfavor levels dictate there is insufficient time to repair their problems, relegating people to the Second Coming event.
    I mentioned how old timers today may experience hell, albeit a “toned down” experience, consistant with the elimination of teaching of Hell in typical Christian educations. I suspect the same is true in the context of prison:::The gods maintain a contstantly decreasing number of punitive intsitutions in case there is a need. But, over time they will be eliminated and the entire system will be quite amicable. Look for this pattern elsewhere as well, for the Gods are eliminating punishment throughout in preparation for the Apocalypse, for it is no longer necessary.

    The Gods send clues about this situation frequently.
    Eddie of Iron Maiden.
    Closure of Fitsgeralds Reno/getting kicked out of Fits LV 1990 for “counting cards” after 5 minutes and $20:::Accusation of the innocent.
    WWII’s other holocaust:::Unit 731:::tsushogo. Tsushogo was a clue from the Gods illustrating their positioning long before it began. Incidentally, the used it to hurt the Chinese and position against future Japanese sucess by burying their atrocities.
    More below.

    They have shared that when the change is initially made they alter the DNA with Artificial Intelligence, ensuring it is not the same person.
    Now depending on their level of activity the Gods switch out for new individuals, ie presidents switched frequently. They say they bring the (m)father’s DNA when it is time to conceive, so it is strategically important who is in there for the conception of the children. The same may not be true for typical activity:::the Gods may alter the DNA upon initial clone hosting but it may be a general change. Conception requires specific DNA.
    And? So?
    So there are no Rockafellers. This was how the Gods eliminated their true importance, for now they are little more than lowly English peasants, ironically.
    Nothing is ever going to change.
    Now the case can be made that far more men are invited into clone hosting than women, and since lineage is matrilineal it would rather follow that blood line instead.
    All it takes is one.
    But I wonder if it even matters. Those who learn and are wise enough to refuse the offer of clone hosting still have to repair their relationship with the Gods and hope for a better placement in their next life, one which certainly won’t involve being a billionaire. Whether real Rockafellers or DNA alternates is of no concequence. Their goal is still ascention, which takes work and dedication. Being/thinking you’re capitalism royalty invites a host of temptations, including grandeur and self-importance, which are all damaging to a good relationship with the Gods.
    If only they can overcome the temptations that money brings, like ample stunning women and Scarface piles of cocaine.
    The consequence of clone hosting is the loss of ascention into heaven. The best they can hope for is 1000 years with Jebus in a temptation-infested enviornment where one can have anything they want.

    Just as the victims of Mengele’s “showers which clentch you of your life” were the Italians who conceived and implimented WorldWarII’s Blitzkreig, so do I think the unholy alliance between evil Japan and good Germany is the cause of the “Siamese Twins” Mengele experiment:::”sewen together, joining heads, just a matter of time before you rip yourselves apart”.
    World War II, the Holocaust were revenge for Germany’s 5th century AD invasion of the dying Roman Empire.
    Those at the top are the ones who suffered the worst because of their intimate involvement. Perhaps it was the godfather who experienced the “frozen water burial” “crack your limbs”.
    Praying for the end of your wide-awake nightmare…
    How was the Holocaust positioned? What did the Italians have against the Jews? The Romans destroyed Temple. Perhaps Joshua…
    What is the God’s real reason behind WWII? Punishment?
    For what? The Crusades? It was a fight supporting evil Christianity, in defense of evil against their religious superiors. For this the Germans should pay.
    Punished for being war mongers.

    Go ahead and ignore this. You won’t ever defy and do the right thing anyways.
    “These came to life again and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” Revelation 20:4. Reference to reincarnation? I wouldn’t be surprised if everyone who has ever been on Planet Earth still is, outside of those who have ascended as children, and it is evident by the population explosion, the Apocalypse being a true “clearinghouse” event in this planet’s history.
    Don’t forget to try space coke in the blender and have sex with as many stunning bitches as your goddamn dick will allow, because this place is going to be ALL about temptation, and you will ALL be groomed for the party with lifetimes of legacy under your belt. Some decent god-fearing people will suceed at resisting temptation, but the Gods will facilitate temptation.
    It will be the rare individual who makes the transistion in an enviornment where you can have anything you want. I believe those who survive these temptations must return to an Earth-like planet, for they have to begin again. Ascention must ocurr from planet of origin.
    “Going along” will “earn” your invitation to the Second Coming of Christ. You will be reincarnated until that age comes, buy you a mere 1000 years and cost you your chance at immortality, simply because you bought into evil as “earning” and subscribed to the big lie.
    Not everyone will be going. They will tell some of you to ignore the Second Coming event, and it will cost you your life, ironically. Blacks, on the other hand, will be asked TO folllow the Second Coming, simply because as an Italian religion blacks who pursue Christianity will die in the Apocalypse because of it.
    Never doubt that Muslims are your superiors. These people are dedicated to their religion while your population have abandoned churches in droves.

    We no longer see orphanages for good reason::::The state would be forced to use professionals, experts in their field, to devise standards these facilities would apply to raising the children. These standards would illustrate ideal rearing goals which could set a positive example for all in society. Instead of enjoying the best possible childhood learning experience, these grossly disfavored children are instead subject to the preditory evil of the guardian with whom they are placed.
    This is an outstanding example of reverse positioning and how the Gods created a society where evil appears not only good but also socially acceptable.
    Civil Righs is a similar issue. Segregation in today’s age would command full funding for black universities and full respect for well established multiple black journalism and media outlets, not this integrated white media cancer where blacks eat what they are fed.
    What people allow the Gods via positioning matters. Black civil rights is a good example::::
    Yes, there may still be a black talk show parading the myriad of black relationship ugliness out for the world to see, but there would also be good black programming that was healthy and worthwhile. As it is, the God’s Italian positioning dictates only poison for blacks via the white media, and the healthy black programming doesn’t exist because of it. Such is the aftermath of Civil Right’s assimilation.

    Christians have mistakenly believed the perception of the Biblical definintion of The Beast as a person. I suggest The Beast instead refers to a place:::The San Francisco Bay Area. In fact the Gods offer a geographic clue suggesting this, like so many others they offer around the globe, to help people understand:::
    Mt.Diablo, “The Devil” is the “eye” of The Beast, the EastBay shoreline as the upper jaw/incisors while the peninsula is the grinding lower jaw. Witness the disturbing upturned smile in the gullet, represented my Silicone Valley.
    The fact than man has shaped much of the shoreline in the 20th century is a testiment to the God’s refusal to accept any culpability for its devistation.
    Gold Rush, counter-culture, alternate lifestyle acceptance, etc. The Beast was used to promote social decay throughout the 20th century and beyond. Difficult to perceive in the current age, one can understand their impacts from a historical perspective.
    Another feature which the Gods offer as a clue is very foreboading and ominous. Mt. Zion is a mountain to the north of Diablo and one which has a working quarry at its base. Consistant with the decay we experience in society, Mt. Zion is being eaten away, slowly stripped of its resources, until one day paradise will be gone forever.
    There was a time when once the Gods “divinely” inspired punishment, where the act was inflicted by the hand of God. They were punishing people and accepting the culpability arising, maintaining societal integrity. Now, in the 20th century and beyond, the Gods tempt man to inflict this punishment, selling them on “earning”, incurring no culpability in the process. The result is social decay and deterioration of mankind’s favor in the eyes of the Gods leading to the Apocalypse.

    The Man in The Moon is yet another of the God’s clues, and it illustrates the favor the Gods could bestow upon us if we behave appropriately.
    Conversely, there is also a clue in the dark side of the Moon:::A side we never see and is hidden from view. Concealed by their positioning, this represents the Gods punishment when the people disobey their rules dictating the meaning of a decent life.

    The Italian peninsula is very pronounced as it juts out into the Medietereanean.
    Considering the shape it is quite obvious they were the primary targets of the post-IceAge/Straight of Gibralter/Noah’s Flood disaster.
    Considering the shape of the boot and how Sicily “caught” the surge, the resulting tsunami inundated the entire southern portion of the peninsula, killing everything and perhaps covering even the highest land masses.
    In the 20th century the Italians were convinced entering clone hosting was ascention into heaven, and their success was a recruiting tool, just as the Holocaust was for the Jews, only duress is far less damaging.

    The women have God’s favor, and when the women do all the evil, as was the case in my family, this serves to “equalize” the playing field, ensuring no wisdom comes to this family as they grow older. As a result they never make progress and achieve the lowest possible placement when reincarnated.

    Couple years ago a story in the media how girls in Bayview-Hunter’s Point were going into puberty at a progressively younger age, as young as age 7.
    A very bad sign::::Early cut-off. It draws the boys attention and they subsequently make sexual mistakes, very similar to what typical people experience nearly a decade later.
    When they “turn” people on and start telepathically talking to them with this technology is very similar::The end of their chance. They segment families, convince them “earning” is the way, etc.
    I tell people to examine the change between when they were children and after they began to hear this technology in their head. It is the difference between good and evil.
    I understand people’s confusion:::They literally hear “God” in their head, as opposed to what was taught to them in some church’s classroom. But this technology is one of the God’s tools, and much like their other tools, clone hosts and prophets (see below), they use them as temptation.

    Instead of helping them, missionaries are actually HURTING people, inflicting them with westernization and Christianity. Whereas some may have seen up to a full 1% of their children ascend into heaven you pathetic white Americans can’t even muster a fraction of that, and your perceived good intentions decrease that rate even further.
    These people have a better chance of ascending into heaven, and Americans unwittingly are being used to reduce/eliminate this chance with their misled good intentions which deteriorate into preditory intentions as they begin to understand this, maximizing the damage they incurr from the Gods.

    COMPILATION PARAGRAPH::::
    This IS the event. I am the telepathic prophet.
    There may have been no other way in today’s modern age:::Use popular culture as temptation and keep teachings primarily telepathic.
    The Gods must be willing to allow Artificial Intelligence to act as my “bible”, repeating all teachings I have made for future generations. This will ocurr but I am afraid only among the miniscule minority “haves”, leaving the “have-nots” lost in ignorance and cast into Damnation::We are going to have a real, full-blown Apocalypse.
    Part of this societal deterioration is cloaked in the way society functions::::Two-parent working households, rushing around, constantly occupied.
    Your children NEED TO SIT AND LISTEN TO THEIR THOUGHTS, FOR THIS IS the age WHEN THEY GODS COMMUNICATE THE TRUTH.
    Much as with the celestial event which occured that day on Ocean Beach, they say when I die there will be some final clue to the people suggesting my importance. Perhaps a “Star of Bethlehem” type of event.
    They say some children see a halo on my head in various brightness. These are the children who have a chance to ascend.
    America and Christianity synonymous::::Punishment for Europeans.
    You don’t want to grill the Gods as to why something is viewed as negative or disapproved of.
    The Gods have placed many things in today’s society which facilitate temptation, and you can trust anything that varies from tradition or orthodoxy would be viewed as such.

    ———————————————————————

    The voice you hear in your head is the power of the Gods. It’s a remote technology, like a computer, perhaps functioning on some frequency, and it can listen and talk to everyone in the universe simultaneously.
    What the Gods taught the children was the truth:::God is everywhere, and this is what they meant. I will remind you of another principle you learned as a child:::If you want to go to heaven you have to be good.
    Even the antient Gods don’t have the ability to listen to people’s thoughts themselves. They taugh we were all made in their image:::I expect they need this “Artificial Intelligence” they created to relay what people think.
    It is a tool, and the Gods use their tools to test people with temptation:::It will role-play people in your life:::Parents, friends, spouses, and employers, all in an attempt to test people with temptation. Ironically, it does the very same thing to those people whom you think you’re hearing, except in that individual’s unique way:::We are all “managed” by the God’s technology.
    But this agent of the Gods can do more than just communicate. It can force thoughts into people’s heads, force behaviors onto their bodies. It can turn healthy cells in your body into cancerous cells. It is absolute power. And this is just the beginning.

    Obedience is not the answer. This is the brain-less response and the easy way out.
    You’ve done everything you have been told for years and it never bought you ANYTHING. Your parents did what they were told and it didn’t buy them anything. Your grandparents did everything they were told and now they’re dead, reincarnated as lesser life forms, perhaps even into America’s deranged, violent ghettos.
    People think they are not responsible when Artificial Intelligence tells them to do something. They offeed a clue with the Holocaust AND with Watergate:::Defy authority and do the right thing.
    In earlier decades this obedience may have been out of fear, as so often in Germany, but that era is long over. To maximize damamge the Gods today sell them on “earning” and these people think they will profiteer from their evil.
    They offer a clue on the Simpsons with Flanders and Skinner. So many ridicule both figures, a testiment to the state of our society.

    The Gods favor the children most among all the people due to their innocence and purity. But society and the God’s tools recently are corrupting the children at a progressively younger age, a reflection of our collectively increasing disfavor and yet another clue illustrating we live in a increasingly deteriorating environment.
    Children who sucessfully repair their relationship with the Gods ascend into heaven. This often takes multiple lives of hard work and proper behavior in the face of adversity to achieve. Adults to whom it is offered enter clone hosting instead, thinking they will be ascending into heaven ultimately. The Gods tempt people, selling them as one in the same, but one is good while the other is evil. In their desperation the disfavored subscribe to this temptation, making their task even more difficult than before due to the evil they incurr in the process. And their corruption will cost the disfavored, for they will be reincarnated as a lesser life form into an ever deteriorating world, sucess becoming ever more allusive with each passing life.
    The hole they’ve dug for themselves is even deeper than the one that existed from their prior lives, ensuring it will take even more time and work to fix their problems with the Gods. And for many there may not be enough time left.

    Ours is an envionment where evil is perceived to be rewarded while good is punished. As with everything the Gods have a reason for creating this perception::::
    People who fall on the good side of the good/evil scale have more favor, and when they do something wrong the Gods punish them BECAUSE THEY WANT THEM TO LEARN. The Gods want them to receive this feedback in hope they make corrections and begin to behave appropriately. The Gods DON’T like evil and refuse to grant this immediate feedback.
    EVERYBODY pays for what they do wrong, only evil people must wait until the end of this or their next life before they will experience the wrath of the Gods, manifested in their placement as a lower form of life into environments with increased/enhanced temptations, like the United States or its ghettos therein.
    Sadly, this allows the Gods to position this perception of evil rewarded as temptation, one which they use as an EXTREMELY effective corruptor.
    Example:::Punishment for gay marriage in Iowa was immediate and painful, a sign of favor of these God-fearing, church-going Midwesterners.

    The Gods suggest they can create paradise for those with their favor. I argue they create misery for those without::::
    Our celebrity culture is temptation. It creates a distraction which consumes people, sometimes for life. Certainly it costs them precious years which could be spent repairing their relationship with the Gods, time that ultimately goes wasted.
    Do you really think Frank Sinatra lived to be 84 years old? In fact the “Chairman of the Board” had a new crowd to entertain in the late 80s/early 90s.
    These people are clone hosts. Now, there is no thing as “black and white” with the Gods. This technology they invented is far, far too dynamic. Expect they require most to stay for a period of time, for I suspect actively (knowingly) engaging in this evil incurrs at an accelerated rate as compared to “carte blanche” given regarding successive clone hosts. They remain until they achieve a pre-determined level of disfavor, incurring evil in their misguided celebration of “earning”, at which time they are ultimately reincarnated, perhaps because they eventually learned this truth I am sharing with you and began to repair their relationship or until the Gods became disgusted and sent them back.
    No, not all celebrities are fake. Expect those who get out early in their career to likely be the real thing.
    The Gods recruit most for clone hosting when people are young, in their late teens or twenties, when people are eager to hurt others for what they perceive to be the benefits achieved through “earning”. And before they leave they give the Gods “carte blanche”:::”Do anything you want. I give my full approval.” Depending on their level of disfavor the Gods take them to heart.
    Because of this these people STILL INCUR EVIL FROM THIS LIFE DESPITE BEING REINCARNATED AND LIVING AS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PERSON and living in our temptation-ridden society. And incurring this amount of evil may likely push many over the edge into Damnation.
    What are the God’s standards for offering clone hosting? Sociobility? Many tactics in various eras are used to gain approval, duress during the Vietnam draft being a good example, one which deteriorated into preditation as mankind’s disfavor grew.
    They liked Heath Ledger. Not enough to allow him to escape without the evil of “Dark Knight” and the horrific wickedness that was the recruiting tool “Brokeback Mountain”. But now he is out. And irregardless of how old he is now, reincarnated 10, 15 years ago, he now is no longer incurring evil from this life. So many others cannot say the same.

    This is Planet Reverse Positioning. Sucess IS NOT a sign of favor. It is just a unique temptation targetted towards a different level of disfavor. Considering our roots as peasantry people should be particularly alarmed at this tactic.
    Clone hosting is like money:::A different level of disfavor and its associated temptation. Money is in better position to learn more quickly than those without, for the associations and wealth-based freedom enables them access to information. Unfortunately, those who fall for this temptation of clone hosting are likely returned to their original lowest level of disfavor once they are reincarnated, punishment for this evil, and they have to start from scratch.

    Our society’s values are bestowed by (a reflection of) the God’s:::Punitive and reward-based. Contrary to Jesus’s teaching’s you will NOT be forgiven and you have to earn your way into heaven BY BEING RESPECTABLE AND DECENT!!!
    Not by being evil and wicked.
    Forgiveness/savior was the primary temptations the Gods used Christianity to create.
    Middle-America’s anti-Semitic attitudes are a clue regarding Christianity. Europe shaped like a sheep is symbolic for the slaughter that is Christinaity.
    Christianity is punishment for Europeans.
    You ALL hate Jews::”They own banking, they control Hollywood and poison our children’s minds, etc etc.”) YET YOU PRAY TO ONE LIKE A GOD!!
    Dislodge your head from your ass. Must you be chumps your WHOLE LIVES???
    There is no such thing as a free ride. Just as you have to earn a living by working so must you earn your own salvation by repairing your relationship with the Gods.
    As we learned from religious/morality education during our formitable years:::If you want to go to heaven you have to be good. The only savior that will exist in our lives is ourselves. The Gods offer clues in life::::Be it school, work, etc., you have to do the work for yourself and when you do something wrong you get punished. Cheating is a subsegment and speaks directly to the temptation of “priveledge”, one we have seen used effectively when the United States preyed on the disfavored with the so-called “stimulus package”.
    As like so many of you, Jesus did everything the Gods tempted him with. His legacy of whorism was inherited from his parents:::Mary was no virgin. Rather, she was a prostitute, and when he grew up Jesus met someone like his mother. This is a cruel joke the Gods play on Latinos, similar to the sexual violation and subsequent “missionary work” by the Spanish.
    Baptism does not allieviate “original sin”. Rather, baptism PLACES original sin by indoctrinating these children into this evil religion, much like circumcision was a method to inflict early damage/mutilation and make (permanant) accention just that much more difficult, another hurdle one must overcome. Body ornamentation (tattoos/piercing), celebrated in Africa and elsewhere among disfavored peoples/cultures, also violates the body the Gods gave us in their image, quite opposite to the positive attitudes the disfavored hold regarding this practice.
    Like Jesus the Second Coming of Christ will be evil. He will look like a savior in this demented society while the Anti-Christ will speak of a different gospel, one that tries to restore the norms and mores which the Gods originally blessed upon the people which made life decent, looking like a tyrant in the process.
    He will be viewed as the “bad guy” when really he is the one trying to save the world.
    There may be a phoney offering, a theatrical production which accurately follows the Book of Revelations. Actually positioning demands it:::::Christianity is positioned to be the one true religion. And those who follow its teachings will have limits imposed ensuring their stay will be minimal, a “consolation prize”, for they don’t think correctly and therefore don’t behave appropriately, or perhaps will be used to colonize the new Planet Earth. This describes many “sinners” in today’s society because they refuse to change their behavior.
    Christians have mistakenly believed the perception of the Biblical definintion of The Beast as a person. I suggest The Beast instead refers to a place:::The San Francisco Bay Area. In fact the Gods offer a geographic clue suggesting this, like so many others they offer around the globe, to help people understand:::
    Mt.Diablo, “The Devil” is the “eye” of The Beast, the EastBay shoreline as the upper jaw/incisors while the peninsula is the grinding lower jaw. Witness the disturbing upturned smile in the gullet.
    The fact than man has shaped much of the shoreline in the 20th century is a testiment to the God’s refusal to accept any culpability.
    Gold Rush, counter-culture, alternate lifestyle acceptance, etc. The Beast was used to promote social decay throughout the 20th century and beyond. Difficult to perceive in the current age, one can understand their impacts from a historical perspective.
    There was a time when once the Gods “divinely” inspired punishment, where the act was inflicted by the hand of God. They were punishing people and accepting the culpability arising, maintaining societal integrity. Now, in the 20th century and beyond, the Gods tempt man to inflict this punishment, selling them on “earning”, incurring no culpability in the process. The result is social decay and deterioration of mankind’s favor in the eyes of the Gods.

    Life is a test, and the Gods evaluate people based on their performance.
    The Gods test people with the temptation for which they are most weak::::
    Homosexuals desire sodomy, preditors pursue the hunt, alcoholics crave a drink, junkies jones for dope, etc.
    Addiction theory is a lie; it is Artificial Intelligence creating the desire, punishment for inappropriate behavior. Ironically, it compells people deeper into the behavior, minimizing hope for recovery.
    The Gods chose Christianity for Europeans because it is the temptation to which they are most suseptable:::Entitlement. Something for nothing. A free ride. Irresponsible behavior. The United States/Western civilization’s accompanying wealth contributes to this perception. And other people from throughout the world happily subscribe to this punishment designed for Europeans, assuming this legacy once assimilated.
    Next time you think of Muslims recognize these people are vastly superior to Christians. Whereas many throughout the Christian world no longer attend church and have fallen into Godlessness, the Muslim world worships the Gods for OVER AN HOUR EACH AND EVERY DAY.

    The Gods created the perception “Italians are stupid.”, ensuring a slow learning curve, to justify using them to accomplish goals throughout the transitional 20th century. It took an extraordinarily long time for them to learn this truth I teach due to this artificial handicap. These people are SO extremely disfavored, but today’s positioning says differently, much to people’s confusion, for they think money is the ultimate sign of favor:::Good food, good music, history of warmongering, Catholics, Christianity HQ, Noah’s Flood event, propensity towards violence, sexual violation by outsiders, mild Meditereanean climate, so many other issues which enhance life/contentment in Italy/Meditereanean and ensure few if any seek more, a necessary step for finding the path and repairing your relationship with the Gods.
    Contentment never motivated anyone. Money is not a sign of favor::::Wisdom is the true wealth on Planet Earth.
    I’d also like to remind you the Noah’s Flood event ocurred in the Meditereanean region::::Global sea levels rose with the end of the ice age, Atlantic Ocean broke through the Straight of Gibralter, killing untold millions in the cradle of western civilization. The God’s timed their corruption and sin to correlate this act as punishment.
    The Italian peninsula is very pronounced as it juts out into the Medietereanean.
    Considering the shape it is quite obvious they were the primary targets of the post-IceAge/Straight of Gibralter/Noah’s Flood disaster.
    Considering the shape of the boot and how Sicily “caught” the surge, the resulting tsunami inundated the entire southern portion of the peninsula, killing everything and perhaps covering even the highest land masses.
    Think about this next time you are deceived by the God’s positioning of Italian wealth.

    Everyone who failed to ascend and remained on Earth past a certain date will be forced to deal with this positioning::::A ceiling is in place. This serves the God’s goal of minimizing the percentage of potential candidates as society deteriorates, much as “instant gratification” did beginning in the 80s:::It will take multiple lives for the disfavored to fix their relationship with the Gods and ascend, and many have been conditioned not to have the patience for it. Other issues force limits/ceilings upon candidates:::Abortion, homosexuality, promiscuity, Christianity, godlessness,
    Whether behavior is involuntary or based on freewill depends on one’s level of disfavor, as well as other complex factors:::::May I remind you about the coercitive envionment the Gods created in the 20th century, specifically to create a temptation that few Italians (or their associates) would overcome:::”We’re in control. If you want to be a part of it you’ll do what you’re told.”. Early-mid 20th entury positioning was infallible.

    Both Africa and the Medittereanean are regions which have sexual issues. This is a sign of gross disfavor once you understand that females are the God’s favored gender. Muhammad’s (Mohammed’s) polygamy halfway throught his life as a prophet was preditory, designed to corrupt. Now a huge percentage of Muslims believe in male superiority and that the abuse of women (polygamy) is God’s will. Female genital mutilation is still practiced in Africa. Black misogyny is the most eggregious example in United States. Consistant with Planet Reverse Positioning, in Africa blacks are being punished with AIDS for their sexual promiscuity in hope they learn and correct their behavior.
    Blacks are highly suspectable to temptation. As a result they need a strict, disiplined religion like Islam. They can’t afford to be Christians. It is one of the benefits bestowed upon their people, and other groups could greatly benefit as well. They need to recognize the importance of a good relationship with the Gods, embrace this benefit and remain true to their faith.
    Vailing is tradition for some, practical for others, one which aids in the men’s self control among some cultures. Much like the Jews who killed Jesus, like the bigots who oppose immigration there is a reason embraced by the masses and the real purpose, displaying the intent of the Gods::::The Gods clue to purebloods that they should not abandon their motherland for this dumping ground for rejects that is the United States.

    The Holocaust was a clue the Gods utilize scapegoatting as a strategy.
    Why did the Gods punish the Jews with the Holocaust? Was it for the destruction of cultures which Christianity caused? Perhaps they corrupted the Jews “after the fact”, telling 19th/early 20th century Jews that Jesus “earned” immortality for the Jews by destroying the European and other cultures? The German destruction of European churches/cathederals during WWII is a clue. Note::::The Gods wanted to keep the Catholic stronghold in Italy, ensuring they could use this tool against these disfavored for many years to come. There is so much Godlessness today, but one day people will flock back to houses of worship out of desperation, and the Gods ensured the Catholic Church would be Italian’s destination.
    Planet Reverse Positioning:::The Nazis were the “good guys”. So are the Muslims/Palestinians, however corrupted some are due to polygamy.
    Contentment never motivated anyone::::Except perhaps for slavery, the Jews never saw more of their children ascend into heaven than during the Holocaust.
    The Gods subsequently used revenge for the Holocaust as temptation::::”Your Italian brothers have a tool, a special power which can achieve sweet revenge. Are you interested??”
    In the aftermath of the Holocaust the Gods tested the Jews with the temptation of revenge, an offer which many gladly accepted.
    In an attempt to achieve revenge for genocide the Jews, thinking they were in partnership with the Italians, made efforts to impose as many Germans (Americans) into homsexuality in the 70s using this technology. Their motive with biotechnology’s AIDS product may have been to finish the job off, revenge for the Holocaust.
    There was positioning behind the counter-culture movement. How did the Gods telepathically “sell” this rapid deterioration of decency to the Italians and Jews and compell them to fall on their swords as preditors?
    If the Jews only would have emersed themselves in Judism the Gods would have “protected” them from the raveges of temptation. Judism may be the one superior religion in all the world, and the Jews wouuld have been wise taking refuge in this exceptional benefit bestowed by the Gods rather than looking for the easy way out.

    Much as with the Jesus event, the Gods use the disfavored to prey on each other.
    The Gods use the evil that men do, man’s inhumanity towards man to accomplish strategic testing/punishment/etc goals::::The Germans fell for this temptation by following the preditor/corruptor-Austrians (Hitler).
    Without this Austrian the Holocaust may never have happened. Nor may have World War II.
    What the Germans did was wrong. They fell for temptation and failed to have empathy for the disfavored. Economic desperation, not wisdom nor enlightenment, dominated in Germany.
    The Gods send many clues suggesting the great favor of the Germans (regionally). I think the Cold War’s Berlin Wall dividing Germany into east and west was a clue suggesting this (reverse positioning).
    I suspect the Holocaust was used to “level the playing field” in Europe, for the Germans had far too much favor to be included in the agenda planned for their neighbors otherwise, and they would have been suspiciously out of place, providing a clue for the disfavored which would have been difficult for the Gods to position away.

    Militancy in Africa is consistant with the Iraqi example, as was slavery and the KKK here in America:::Fear enforces proper behavior. Without it we see what happens as a result of gross/morbid disfavor:::::AIDS, crack babies, dead young men in gangland retaliation killings.
    The same principle was true in Europe and throughout the world for centuries:::People whom lived under iron fists were conditioned to think the right way. As a result they taught their children appropriately and experienced a higher percentage of children ascend into heaven.
    Our preditory envionment of “freedom” was the primary purpose the Gods had when implimenting this strategy that is the United States, one which they used to spred the cancer of democracy and westernization throughout the world. And the Gods use this tool that is America to prey on the disfavored both at home and abroad:::Much like the ghetto, America in general experiences a heightened level of temptation due to its citizen’s disfavor.
    Red white & blue IS BAD FOR YOU!!!
    Planet Earth is not about living. Planet Earth is about being tested. And contentment never motivated anyone.
    Your happy lives are costing you your chance.
    Italians HATE Africans because of their invasion/sexual violation of their motherland. The Gods did this SPECIFICALLY to strategically position the punishment of the most disfavored peoples:::
    The Gods have used the ghettos of America as a reincarnation dumping ground. This may be temporary/cyclical, illustrated by the Italians who fell for temptation and parlayed their own civil war into the Black Wars of the 80s and 90s, in addition to the “thug life”/gangster state of mind. Ironically, it was these same Italians and their cooperating associates who were reincarnated into the ghetto as crack babies and gangster thugs for this event.
    There is justice in the universe. This is how the Gods do business. Once you recognize the patterns you will understand the other clues they offer to the people.
    Of course it may be more of a permanant change, indicated by the enhanced temptations in these neighborhoods, for the Gods have created these enviornments so riddled with temptation few can escape/overcome.
    Don’t be suprised if after being gunned down in the ghetto the next stop for the 20th century Italian-Americans & friends was AIDS in Africa, punishment for their promiscuity and deviacy for some, involvement in the AIDS trade for others.
    Media report on a crackdown on child prostitution. “(The pimps use coersion to prey on the children, etc, etc, other “conclusions” offered through the media.)” What a degenerate liar.
    These kids WANT to turn tricks. They LOVE the idea of having a pimp. It is celebrated in their “culture”.
    Yet another legacy of the evil inflicted by the Italians, revenge for the invasion and sexual violation of Italy.
    Maybe this was the destination for a smaller percentage of these deviates after AIDS in Africa, ironically.
    There is a reason why we have these genocide events recently in Africa::::Black is one of the God’s “dumping grounds”, and they send offenders to these regions for punishment.
    I call the monsters who destroyed our society in the 20th century. The next holocaust is mine.
    Just like black neighborhoods, the legalization of marijuana will make drugs available on every street corner, even in the suburbs. White’s affluent suburbs will become just like the ghetto. Once legalized the suburbs of America will become like the ghettos in the inner cities:::Drugs available on every corner. It will represent a MAJOR step towards societal deterioration and decay. Middle-aged men who have given up pot will resume consumption, and what little wisdom the masculinized women still pass on will lose effectiveness. Instead of being reincarnated based on the progress they make once mature, these men will be placed based on their mistakes, for less progress will be made.
    The patriarchal cancer spread throughout Europe because of Christianity, of which the majority of policy makers were Italian men, destroying what pockets of favored matriarchy existed. Expect the largest landowner in Europe and the continent’s original superpower also played the major role in African slavery.
    The Gods offered a clue about the Italians in the movie “The Matrix”:::They casted an Italian as the traitor of the group, the one who betrays them all.
    As they did humanity in the 20th century.

    Even the Old Testiment is not to always be taken literally, but the Gods do offer clues throughout to help the disfavored:::The apple is a tool of temptation used to corrupt Adam and Eve and cast them out of the Garden of Eden.
    A metaphor for sex, it also serves as a warning.
    There is another lesson to be learned from this passage, and it is quite similar to the vailing issue and the discourse over women’s attire which ultimately died in the 70s:::Women are responsible for and control the fate of mankind.
    So were there other issues “ridiculed away” as the Gods sought to transition into this Godless, immoral enviornment which society has become.
    1. Decency/obsentiy in media
    2. Corporal punishment for children
    3.
    4.
    The deterioration of society and mankind is all women’s fault. Females are sexually promiscuous like men, many who too often are corrupted like the opposite gender, and the result is a reduction/minimization of mankind’s collective level of favor, a very important step necessary for the Gods to justify the Apocalypse.
    They need to understand this responsibility, their favor amongst all the people. Instead they have embraced masculinization::::Girls play organized sports, engage in casual sex like men. The trend is away from traditional girl toys, like dolls, which often during playtime helped crate positive thoughts, enabling the Gods to enlighten the favored gender and illustrate wisdom, occassionally leading to the path towards ascention.
    There are many good men who become corrupted by the extreme members of the gender but they are manageable and easy to control if the women maintained their power. Instead they have let it slip away. I suspect there are many older women who remember their elders addressing them regarding this issue.
    The relationship between men and women have always been complimentary:::The men shelter and protect women from the evils of this life, ensuring the women have a REAL opportunity to ascend when reincarnated, while the women help the ignert men understand by sharing their wisdom imparted by the Gods. The tendency towards sexual abstinence as one grows older is an example.
    Brilliance and insight granted to Eastern cultures and religions::::Not for Europeans. If once existed, now crushed by Christianity. Replaced by preditory Mediterreanean patriarchy.
    Europeans:::The most disfavored people on Earth. The first to experience the end of their God-granted favor.
    Reverse positioning.

    Think about what I say. Consider what I teach.
    When I am no longer here or no longer teach the Gods ARE NOT going to share with you.
    Even if you doubt now you need to remember the principles that I teach because the Gods ARE NOT going to be generous with the disfavored. Society is going to become disturbingly ugly as we approach the Apocalypse due to spiralling, runaway disfavor, WHETHER CONCEALED IN REVERSE POSITIONING OR NOT (like Christianity, like money), and you are going to be on your own.
    I do not know when this will occurr, but it is the God’s way to grant some time after a learning event such as this before they will end on Planet Earth.
    Make the decision to always be good and never look back. Until you do this technology will employ tactics to test your resolve:::Ridicule, beligerance, doubt and refusal to abandon what people perceive to be their “investment”.
    Either you make that decision now and accept the punishment for the sins of this life or you will pay for it in the next, reincarnated into a similarly low role, ensuring another wasted opportunity, or as an even lower form of life, and hope will begin to slip away.
    Another lifetime, shot to hell.
    Young people who understand yet still wish to have children MUST begin to do the right thing and work on fixing their relationship with the Gods, accepting the punishment for the evil they have done in their lives. Without this progress they won’t do the correct thing for their children and ultimately cause even more problems for themselves by perpetuating this behavior into a new generation.
    You must be willing to tell the Gods “No.” when tested with temptation, and accepting punishment and putting it in your past is the only way you will suceed as a parent.
    You need to do your best, teach your children decency and morality and give them the very best chance to ascend if you want a similar opportunity in your next life.
    If you do well for your children now your parents will do well for you when reincarnated.
    Pray daily. Think appropriately. You are vulnerable. Live this reality in your daily lives. Impart these charecteristics upon your children. Too many are confident, unaware of the God’s awesome powers or their status as antients. Others may fall prey to their positioning.
    Be humbled, God-fearing and beware of the God’s temptations, for everyone is tested to evaluate their worthiness.

    ————————————————–

    “WHAT DO WE DO NOW???” I recommend you spend time on this. Think about what you’ve done wrong and how you can repair your relationship with the Gods. Get creative. Don’t forget what I said:::Look to your parent’s sins to understand what you have done wrong in a prior life, for the Gods match this legacy when selecting placement.
    This is where the cream rises to the top. It’s going to matter in the end.
    You must attone for what you have done wrong. You all understand the evil, immoral things you have done in your life. Go to the people you have wronged and make amends for what you did wrong. This could be very painful and you may feel great resistance. It is Artificial Intelligence-based temptation. Muster the courage and go see these people.
    If your parents pilfer from their employer then expect theft is one of your past-life sins. Adultery, alcoholism/drugs, dishonesty, immorality all would indicate problems you have had in the past. Doing so should help you get a good start repairing your relationship and working towards ascention in a future life.

    American Samoa football players on 60 Minutes. Years ago I researched moving there with my phantom lottery money. Upon doing so I learned of the American territory’s sub-minimum wages at the largest employer, the cannery.
    Years later I thought of it and I think mentioned it, reinforcing a statement. Days later (9.29.09) the Gods hammered the island with a massive earthquake/tsunami which resulted in great damage. Now I learn the UnitedStates passed minimum wage laws subsequently and the corporation announced they were shutting the tuna cannery.
    And there are many other examples like this.

    There’s the name connection with Hurricane Katrina. How it helped the blacks have a new chance contradicts the typical disaster surrounding this Situation.
    We have the earthquakes in Haiti and Chile this year. Remember, I called mom for possibly being reincarnated a Haitian slave years ago and loved to badmouth shitty Chilean fruit for tasting like nothing.
    Name connection with NY stock Exchange administration corruption, sexy ass-2-mouth football player and more. Appearance clue with Intimidator, Artist Formerly Known and more.
    They say the 5150 album cover is a clue:::VH was supposed to be done. Again, over and over the gods use the modern prophet as temptation, for all prophets are tools and, after all, nothing’s free.
    It seems when I badmouth evil it helps them, while when I badmouth good it hurts them::::Donald Trump got The Apprentice while Dick Clark got a stroke and Gorilla got into a car crash. The difference? I’ve only helped evil. I’ve educated everybody but the Gods have used me as temptation to only help evil financially.
    Praised Union76 as the best gas then they lost the NASCAR sponsorship. The rest is history. RED,WHITE&BLUE IS BAD FOR YOU!!! Always evil. The Gods dictate that corporate color scheme to send this clue.
    Also, look to the primary competetors of RED,WHITE&BLUE for another color clue, for it is always best to patronize good.
    And the good thing about using clone hosts in the board rooms is if they get on top of things and tell the Gods “No.” they will switch them for new ones who will say “Yes.”. And there is always a fresh new supply of 20-year-olds, ready willing and able.
    One day, however, the conditions will change. Either the Gods will change this policy to eliminate these clues, for in an enviornment of decay all good things must come to an end, or perhaps now, in the era after the damage is done, people aren’t offered clone hosting with the same frequency and begin to behave appropriately, plateauing society once the last of the clone hosts die off. Clone hosting ensured those who entered wouldn’t have sufficient time to fix their problems and ascend into heaven before The End and is why the Gods reserved it for those they disliked most, Italians as a group I suspect the primary targets of the Western world.
    Of course what will happen is both:::Decay will plateau for a period of time, and when they resume aggressively corrupting/recruiting people into clone hosting again these clues will have already been eliminated via time. The calm before the storm.
    Approximately 300 years left, in my opinion.

    The Gods use me as temptation.
    There was Hurricanes Ivan and Wilma, the tornado which struck Alabama and

  248. talula badula said,

    December 10, 2010 at 7:54

    I didn’t read all the comments, I usually do. I didn’t do much research, I usually don’t. But seeing that people I never thought I’d have anything in common with aren’t total assholes gives me pause. See I thought being “liberal” meant being Bill Clinton and being “Republican” meant being white.I won’t bore you with a whole lot of “I walked barefoot to school” even though my PaPa swears he did. But my family still is trying to ‘pull up our bootstraps” or what ever the hell black folks are supposed to do magically to “be better black folks” and not be one of ‘those people’ who raise the deficit”. It seems everywhere I look ,everyone is fighting for people like us, (Americans) Democrats and Republicans. None of you are listening though. I was basically told to STFU on an earlier post. And even though you weren’t talking to me “Tajuanna Washington of Des Moines,Ia. You might as well have been. You have to be smart and witty to step up on these comments. Especially the actual posts, it’s intimidating. Like first day at work intimidating, but I…. Just….. Can’t….. get….. Past….. It. I know I’m not the only person at stake in this “fight” but talking to you guys ,it feels like I am.

  249. talula badula said,

    December 10, 2010 at 8:14

    Ooops, sorry, I forgot.. Insert joke here?

  250. S. cerevisiae said,

    December 10, 2010 at 14:54

    OT: But since everyone is being so serious here I need someone to give me an excuse from hurling myself off a bridge or eating a shotgun.

    I know I don’t really know any of you but I feel closer to you people than a lot of my family. I’m just really depressed right now.

    I never thought I would be a fifth century Roman.

    Fuck, I’m sorry

    There is no God – love your people and try to keep your humanity in the coming clusterfuck.

    Learn to swim.

  251. soullite said,

    December 10, 2010 at 16:51

    Please, Obama had let the tax cuts expire, he could have written any tax cuts he wanted and rammed them down the Republican’s throats in the new year. The same with Unemployment. Yeah, checks wouldn’t get mailed out for a few weeks and that would suck. It would do less damage over all than this will.

  252. actor212 said,

    December 10, 2010 at 17:29

    WWII’s Unit 731

    Wow, that shit’s really FUNNY!

    You should share it at a place more deserving of the laughs, like, NROnline or Town Hall.

  253. actor212 said,

    December 10, 2010 at 17:37

    know I’m not the only person at stake in this “fight” but talking to you guys ,it feels like I am.

    Talula, you’d be wrong to think we think in lockstep here, or that you’re alone.

    This is, first and foremost, an edgy comedy blog. Yea, it can be intimidating to try to post here, partly because we can turn anything into a joke and part of the competitive spirit is that we try.

    Sometimes, this hurts.

    We do rant here ourselves, or at our own blogs (I have a helluva rant up today that I think you might like. Click on “actor212″).

    You say you see people fighting for us. I don’t. That’s not to say that you’re wrong and I’m right, or even that there are or are not people fighting for us.

    Someone is, I know that. But my tolerance level is probably a little lower than yours. I’ve seen these fights now for nearly forty years as an aware American. I can tell you first hand, the fight ain’t being fought nearly hard enough.

    People sweated blood to get this nation to this point, only to see it slowly slide back downhill.

    I love me some Bill Clinton. I think he will likely go down among the greatest presidents we’ve ever had. There is no other President who had eight years of relative peace and undeniable prosperity hand-in-hand. Liberal? A little. Not much.

    And I say that as a liberal who would make Michael Moore go “Whoa. Guy’s a commie…”

  254. poop penis mango blart also too said,

    December 10, 2010 at 18:55

    “This is, first and foremost, an edgy comedy blog.”

    Sometimes, in the main posts, that’s true. The comments are mostly self-congratulation — and I know from lurking a long time that you’re the best at that, actor — and circle-jerky endlessly repeated in-jokes among 12-15 regulars.

    To those outside the clique, you all aren’t really as clever as all that. A script could generate half the comments.

    It’s better when you’re serious, and not pretending you’re some of cybernetic Algonquin Round Table, or something.

  255. talula badula said,

    December 24, 2010 at 7:41

    s.cerevisiae … Fuck You. not even with an exclamation point. or correct punctuation. stop worrying about how your ass looks in your jeans and don’t always look over your shoulder.( pssst. nobody’s there.)

  256. talula badula said,

    December 24, 2010 at 8:10

    P.S. actor … you truly live up to your fabulos name.

  257. talula badula said,

    December 24, 2010 at 8:33

    fabulos = drunk spelling

  258. talula badula said,

    December 24, 2010 at 8:51

    (burrrrp) .. excuse me.

  259. talula badula said,

    December 24, 2010 at 8:54

    Happy fucking “we made great strides in history” day. (sorry for the punctuation…. shhhhhhhh… I’m drnk) HAPPY HALLOWEEN!

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