This is a hard time for a lot of people.

Much respect all around. I’m serious. Thoughts with Mal and family.

Both the anti-semites and Likudniks base their arguments on the premise Isreal = “the Jews”, so that opposition to one is hatred of the other.

This fits the purposes of Dershowitz and Ahmadinejad equally, and it is critical that this dishonest premise be rejected.

As an American I have no defense against MdM’s anger. First we fuck up Iran, leading to the fundies taking over, then we give the Likudniks a blank check. Sure, the dispute in Palestine is an old and intractable one, but the present insoluble mess would have been impossible without America’s unique contributions.

Y’know, despite my anti-Zionist feelings, you’ve done an extremely good job of outlining my basic conundrum of religious/geopolitical life. I think that that is, at least for we Jews on the left side of the aisle, a summation of the conflict each of us has to deal with. Worried that we’re either turning into the enemy, or worried that we’re betraying our people somehow by even having this conflict.

I probably won’t say this well, but I am tired and even with several hours of break, this thread wearies me more. But I think that I, like a lot of American Jews, am terribly conflicted about Israel. I deplore warfare and violence, and it is cringeworthy at best to watch the actions it has taken over the past two weeks in Lebanon. You think, “My God, that can’t be happening. My people could never do that, certainly not after what they and their parents and grandparents have been through!” And you read the Dershowitzes and the Kristols and the fucking Atlas Pams, and they are all “Go get ‘em, IDF! Wipe ‘em all out!” and you think “Holy fucking shit, how do you call yourselves Jews?”

At the same time, you hear a steady drumbeat of anti-Israel commentary (on a good day) and vitriol (the rest of the time). Two drumbeats, actually, in a kind of crazy half-syncopated rhythm: one from the antisemites — both the neo-Nazi skinhead type as well as Iran and the other Islamic hardliners, from whom you expect that sort of shit, but amped up like Chihuahuas on coke now that there is something real to latch onto; and the other from people who are otherwise generally with you on most political issues, people you normally consider allies, but who now seem to take the side of a group whose entire existence has for decades been preoccupied with and predicated on the elimination of your people. And you are leery of joining them in protesting Israel’s policies because so many of them seem to want to go far beyond denouncing current events and actions, to want to blame all the woes of the Middle East on Israel — or worse, by extension, on the Jews as a whole.

Worse still, in the back of your mind, Israel is still the place for hope. Hope for a peaceful homeland for a culture that has always been the Stranger, and has endured beatdowns and oppression and attempted genocide as a result. It’s the place where you would like your kids or grandkids to be able to go for their bar and bat mitzvahs, to reconnect with thousands of years of heritage. And you fear that between the ones on the outside who hate us and the ones on the inside who hate those others so much they are willing to become them, there are too many people working too hard against a solution for that hope to ever bear fruit.

Gah.

6) Palestinians receive almost as much aid from the US as Israel, not to mention the European nations. They have money, they just choose to keep it from the people. Hamas has cash that, if it truly wanted to stop the fighting, it could have put towards turning its eyes inwards. Again, not laying all the blame on them, just saying it’s not quite that cut and dry.

7) I’ve also seen places I’ve been to in Israel in the news after having been exploded by a suicide bomber. It’s a bit of a jarring experience. But, on the other hand, I have not taken these images or the stories of dead congregations and turned it into a justification to condemn all Palestinians. I do not need to show images of the dead in Iraq to prove that the war was a horrible catastrophe.

For the record, I hope we’re all cool, even if you don’t understand where I’m coming from. The one thing that can be said about the Israeli-Palestinian conflicts is that they tend to bring up the bad blood and, realistically, we are not the war mongers here.

Well, that was more reasonable. Again, I apologize for being aggresive and rude.

Now on a lighter note….

http://www.endofworld.net/

Goodnight all.

A third element of a peace package is release of prisoners. According to reports yesterday, Israel has approached the head of Germany’s foreign intelligence service to try to broker a deal. Israel Radio said the government had asked Ernst Uhrlau to act as a mediator between Israel and Hizbullah. Germany’s foreign ministry refused to confirm the reports. But Mr Uhrlau enjoys credibility with both sides and was responsible for brokering a spectacular prisoner exchange in January 2004 between Hizbullah and Israel.

It is time for monkeybrains to call Olmert and say “OK–he’s had enough.”

I will lay out my main issues simply and, frankly, I don’t think they’re insanely right-wing:

1) I do not care who started the conflict, but acting like there hasn’t been daily bombings in Israel for years is disingenuous. It is the continuing strike/retaliation cycle that has led to this, not a single action on the Israelis part or a single kidnapping by the Palestinians and Hezbollah.

2) While what Israel is doing is horrible, I will not argue that Israel should not exist because of its actions.

3) While I lament the position of the Palestinian situation, I think a large part of it is thanks to leaders like Arafat who either pocketted all international aid money or used it to buy more weapons. I also think that the number of times he walked away from the table when his advisors thought the deal was fair is a sign he didn’t want peace at all.

4) I will not say that Israel should not fight back because it has better weapons. I will definitely denounce guided missiles aimed at fleeing minivans, no question, but what has happenned in the past week is not typical of the situation and there’s no free shots just because Hezbollah needs more rockets to do the same damage. Neither side should be shooting them in the first place.

5) I take issue with the ethnic cleansing concept because, as has been said, Israel is largely Arab and other religions and the only ones bombing them are people on the other side of the wall.

6) I am sure the majority of the Palestinian people don’t want to fire rockets into Israel, but Hamas and the rest of the Palestinian authority have made no effort to police their people to keep them from attacking and kidnapping Israelis. In fact, when Israel first asked the Palestinians to find the people who kidnapped the first soldier, they were defiant. That is not the will of the downtrodden Palestinian people, that is the fanatacism of the people in charge.

7) I don’t react to dead body images. I know they are horrible – they are dead bodies – but they are strictly intended for emotional reaction and do not make any point other than “people are dying.”

8) And lastly, I only argue because I do see a purpose for the nation of Israel (which we can debate seperately) and, for all the sufferring Palestinians, there are also grieving and terrified Israelis who equally do not want this continued violence. I also know that much of the rest of the world feels that Israel was a mistake and will look for any excuse to claim it doesn’t deserve to exist, but (and I apologize for bringing religion in) Jews do need one country where they do not have to worry that the population will turn on them if there is a depression (as in Germany). If you think I’m overstating it, go to Media Matters and see how many times Bill O’Reilly or Michael Savage gets away with denouncing liberal Jews (sometimes forgetting the liberal part) even though most Zionist Jews are Fox fans.

And all fo this brings me back to my first point that you can’t resolve this situation by just bashing one side and ignoring the actions of the other. Maybe the two will never live in peace, maybe they have no reason to want to, but whatever their govenrments do, how do you tell countless people – displaced Arabs on one side, Jews (many of which fled persecution from Russia and Africa) on the other side – that because of their governments’ actions, they are no longer allowed to stay in the only real home they’ve ever known?

Sorry if it’s a bit long, but I kinda felt like I had alot to say and it couldn’t be boiled down into short statements.