Sep
8

Why The Tea Party Movement Is A Good Thing




Posted at 6:36 by D. Aristophanes

Bear with me, all you teatard mockers. I’m on a roll (of vodka tonics). Consider the Tea Party movement — a collection of mouth-breathing social misfits who increasingly gather in public places. That’s the nail in the horseshoe that touches off the movement’s own downfall. That’s why this whole teabagging clusterfuck is going to collapse upon itself and wind up shooting rainbows and unicorns out of its violently expiring asshole.

Y’see, it’s long been conventional wisdom that tolerance is best achieved by the slow and steady infiltration of diversity amongst the bigoted. If only enough people figured out that they actually knew a gay person or a Muslim person or watched ‘Will and Grace’ or whatever, eventually they’d become more tolerant and less prone to jumping at wingnut dog whistles.

But the truth is, an enormous number of people were never going to figure this out organically, due to the fact that they are naturally misanthropic shut-ins with no capacity for visiting the public square and getting to know their fellow citizens.

It has often been said, for example, that people would become more tolerant of homosexuality when they discovered that their son or daughter was gay.

Nice in theory. But how does that work when a significant portion of your population will never ever never have a son or daughter, not by making that choice, but because their extreme sexual retardation undermines any shot they have at procreation?

Here’s where the Tea Party movement comes in. For the first time in living memory, the social retards are actually emerging from their secret lairs to kibbitz amongst other people in the light of day. True, those other people are people like Glenn Beck, but at least they’re other living, breathing human beings and not distant, pixelated voices reverberating from the Intertubes echo chamber.

My prediction is that the more these Tea Partiers gather and protest, the more they will actually have to confront other meatbags with different views, appearances and agendas. They may all be mostly misanthropic but they’re not completely sociopathic, or at least I hope they’re not.

And if I’m right, we may see something truly ironic and almost beautiful — a conservative movement that finally decided to take to the streets after decades of grumbling obscenities in the privacy of its walled-off enclaves … and by dint of that long-avoided mingling with fellow citizens discovered that it had more in common with the diverse members of its various cohorts than it had ever imagined.

Or we’ll have a Civil War. Make the next one a double.

621 Comments »

  1. M. Bouffant said,

    September 8, 2010 at 6:47

    Now, please take the hand of the person on either side of you, & we’ll all join in a chorus of “Kum-by-ah.”

  2. Bilo said,

    September 8, 2010 at 6:47

    Uh, think George Wallace. He and his fans were not fit for polite society. The real danger is some “normal”, sociopathic GOP politician (or, theoretically, Huey Long type Dem) trying to hitch his wagon to their star, milk those voters while wearing the mantle of respectability for being considered within the Village to be a normal ol’ GOP person.

    Oh, wait, Sarah Palin. Maybe.

    It’s not the Teahadists you have to fear, but the GOP that uses them. And then (shudder) has to kowtow to them for…

    Oh wait, the GOP has been for decades.

    We don’t know who the creep will be that wil creepily exploit this movement to the fullest and get a president bid out of it. Oh, looky, here’s stray dog Newt, he sure smelled it in the air. But who will be making our stomachs turn in a year or two, running for prez, we have yet to find out.

    Bilo’s bold prediction: we are entering a brief phase in which GOP prez candidates will have been too young to have gone to Vietnam, but are too old to have avoided Iraq 2/Afghanistan. I still am irked at how they avoided Nicaragua, El Salvador, Grenada, Beirut, Panama, Kuwait/Iraq I, but hey, it’s a volunteer army, quite a libertarian fap fest concept, and they had other priorities, like, letting the little people do the dirty work that their betters keep dreaming up.

  3. Bilo said,

    September 8, 2010 at 6:49

    Oh, I’m sorry. I hinted at George Wallace and a “sociopathic” GOP politician who would try to appease that voting bloc, and I forgot to say it:

    NIXON!
    NIXON!!
    NIXON!!!!
    There.

  4. Anonymous said,

    September 8, 2010 at 7:08

    Actually I thouht the Democrats had plenty to rebel aganst in their own party policies. Stright ticket, straight-jackets make up the bulk of both parties.

    Too bad anyone not an R or D is a labeled misanthrop, wingnut, whackjob, or whatever. Independents would probably be as good or better in office than any of the name brand politicians without the exorbitant campaign coffers.

  5. Blinking Emoticon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 7:12

    the social retards are actually emerging from their secret lairs to kibbitz amongst other people in the light of day.

    THAT’S what that smell is.

  6. The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge said,

    September 8, 2010 at 7:14

    Independents would probably be as good or better in office than any of the name brand politicians without the exorbitant campaign coffers.

    “Independent” used to mean: “I don’t know anything about the issues and I’ll be damned if I’ll take the effort to find anything out about them.”

    Now it means: “Even the rabid rightwing freak show the Republican party has become isn’t rabid enough for me.”

    I don’t really want “politicians” of either description in positions of responsiblility—I’m funny that way.

  7. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 7:21

    The Pea Tarty is great because everyone loves Pea and Tarts.

  8. S. cerevisiae said,

    September 8, 2010 at 7:24

    I think xenophobia runs far deeper in the average American than any of us want to admit – think “The Monsters are Due on Maple Street”. There is a deep seeded fear of The Other in far too many of us.

  9. Mr. Wonderful said,

    September 8, 2010 at 7:26

    I’ll give you half, D.A. Read this:

    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/mar/25/at-the-tea-party/

    It’s Jonathan Raban’s essay in the NY Review of Books in March. He quotes some Tea Party-ers who seem only somewhat rabid, and who take polite, articulate exception to what others among them say. It’s not all the mouthbreath-a-thon I would have expected.

    Still, both at Beck’s recent do and from video of people waiting for Palin’s autograph at book stores or in line to hear her in 2008 at Lehigh U., their ranks are thick with people unable to answer the simplest question put to them after they’ve launched their opening cliche. None of them says, “Huh. You know, I didn’t know that,” or “Jeez, I should be able to answer that, shouldn’t I…”

    Meaning, they can have evidence of the emptiness of their assumptions and wrongness of their “theories” punch them in the kisser, and most of them will not register that it begins with THEM. Anger and indignation are cheap highs, and half their appeal is that you don’t have to deal with consciousness, or self-consciousness, to get off on them.

  10. hells littlest angel said,

    September 8, 2010 at 7:34

    *sniff-sniff*… he’s drunk alright.

  11. Whale Chowder said,

    September 8, 2010 at 7:35

    There’s a very good article in the current Mother Jones (not yet up on the website unless you give them your email) that compares the Teatards with the Birchers and connects them to the Scaifes and Kochs. The bottom line is that these kind of movements have been with us for every Democratic administration since FDR and they probably won’t settle down until another R weasels his way into the White House.

  12. Spaghetti Lee said,

    September 8, 2010 at 7:35

    Thing is, the GOP is more diverse this year than it traditionally has been. Lots of women (“Mama grizzlies”, etc.) Tim Scott in South Carolina, Allen West in Florida, Charles Djou, etc.

    And you know what? They’re still, by and large, horrible, ignorant people, despite the presence of melanin, vaginas, or whatever else we like to think automatically raises someone’s minimum level of enlightenment. I like the optimism, D, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

  13. Spaghetti Lee said,

    September 8, 2010 at 7:40

    We don’t know who the creep will be that wil creepily exploit this movement to the fullest and get a president bid out of it.

    If my nightmares signify anything, it’ll be that little twerp Paul Ryan.

  14. Stephen King said,

    September 8, 2010 at 7:54

    We don’t know who the creep will be that wil creepily exploit this movement to the fullest and get a president bid out of it.

    Greg Stillson.

  15. S. cerevisiae said,

    September 8, 2010 at 8:03

    Steve, Sarah starbursts IS Greg Stillson.

  16. Judas Peckerwood said,

    September 8, 2010 at 8:05

    I wish I shared your optimism D. Ari. And your drug dealer.

  17. Wyatt Watts III said,

    September 8, 2010 at 8:09

    True, those other people are people like Glenn Beck, but at least they’re other living, breathing human beings and not distant, pixelated voices reverberating from the Intertubes echo chamber.

    I wish I could share your optimism, but I’m afraid the only real difference between the real-life and online echo chambers is literal vs. imagined halitosis.

  18. noen said,

    September 8, 2010 at 8:20

    “They may all be mostly misanthropic but they’re not completely sociopathic, or at least I hope they’re not.”

    Yeah, I think that is right. Sociopaths really are not that common. Misanthropic assholes on the other hand…

    I was watching the Charlie Rose series on the brain the other day and they were talking about mirror neurons. It was the belief of whoever it was he was talking to that mirror neurons are responsible for a lot of what we all think are social goods. Empathy, altruism, co-operation and so on. People see other people being hurt, those neuron trigger and they feel hurt. So this gives a biological basis for the liberal belief that “people are basically good” and also a sound basis for rejecting the Hobbesean (and quintessentially conservative) claim that the human state of nature is one of eternal war.

    Liberals when they get depressed tend to give the conservative take on human nature more credit than it deserves.

    Stop that.

  19. PS said,

    September 8, 2010 at 8:30

    Or we’ll have a Civil War.
    Um, yes.

  20. The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge said,

    September 8, 2010 at 8:38

    I try to retain a certain medium-range optimism. I think in one way it could be good that the election of a black president has made these fucknuggets lose their shit to this extent—it shows everybody what we’re dealing with. Most people who didn’t follow politics didn’t believe us about how insane these motherfuckers are. Now they’re letting their freak flags fly, and the display isn’t pretty.

    I still think there’s an appreciable chance that in the districts where the Teadtardlican candidate won the primary, a lot of people who never would have voted Democratic will at least say; “Hey, this idiot’s fucking nuts!” and stay home. The wild card is whether the enormous numbers of newly-registered voters who swept Obama into office can be aroused from their lethargy and actually vote. Probably not, but it’s worth trying.

    I think President Obama’s Labor Day speech is actually starting the process. He probably didn’t want to launch too early—two months before the election is about right. I’m in hopes that the wingnuts have shot their wad prematurely. They’ve won Crazy August™, but where do they go from here? Crazier yet? Bring it on! People are noticing now.

    Even if the conventional wisdom is correct and the Rethugs take the House in November, I genuinely have some hope that there is a level of insanity that the American people will not stand for—and believe me, you’ll see it on display if they take power. Impeaching President Clinton was unpopular enough, and he had actually done something—not anything that was anybody’s business, but still….

    Once they start investigating Obama’s birth certificate and all that crap, people will be appalled. I guarantee it. All this Birther shit is all over the t00bz, but in meatspace I’ve met maybe three people who are even aware of it. The freak show that will begin in January of 2011 may just show the averge person that the reichwing really is as crazy as we’ve been saying they are.

    Then of course, if the Rethuglicans don’t do as well in November as they think they will, you thought they lost their shit two years ago—you ain’t seen nothing yet!

  21. The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge said,

    September 8, 2010 at 9:06

    And since my tl;dr post seems to have broken the thread, I’ll put up another one. The Republicans seem to expect 2010 to be a straight-up repeat of 1994. They’ve tarred a Democratic president whose politics are somewhere between Eisenhower and Nixon as the “most soshulistical preznit EVAR!”, made their Contract With America™ (in this case, “vote for us and we’ll pander to your racism”), and are expecting the same thing to happen. This is Cargo Cult politics, for two reasons:

    1) They either don’t realize or can’t admit to themselves what swept them into power in 1994. It was one thing—a new redistricting that created a certain number of guaranteed minority seats by ridiculously gerrymandering sinuous and even discontinuous districts to carve off all the minorities and liberals possible. This left a large number of redneck rump districts that sent knuckle-dragging troglodytes to Congress. I don’t know to what extent this has been rectified, but one thing’s sure—there’s been no redistricting since 2008.

    B) in 1994, there were no huge numbers of newly-registered voters from 1992 who had enthusiastically turned out to vote Bill Clinton into office. This time, there is such a reservoir of Democratic voters who could, just could, be horrified enough by the Teabaggers to turn out. Like I said, probably not, but the possibility is there, and it wasn’t in 1994.

  22. From the imoral minoriy said,

    September 8, 2010 at 9:07

    Glenn Beck to bring his “Crying Game” to Alaska.

    Today Sarah “NO dammit, it’s me RAM!” Palin took to her Facebook account to tell us something that is certainly not news to most of us who have been paying attention.

    Glenn’s coming to the Last Frontier! I hope my fellow Alaskans (and anyone visiting from Outside) will join me this Saturday, September 11, 2010, at Anchorage’s Dena’ina Center at 8:00 p.m. Glenn Beck will be there – you won’t want to miss it. Tickets are available at Ticketmaster.com.

    We can count on Glenn to make the night interesting and inspiring (and soggy with tears), and I can think of no better way to commemorate 9/11 than to gather with patriots who will “never forget.” Hope to see you there!

    - Sarah “Becky” Palin

    So we have known for quite some time that Beck is coming up here to spread his special brand of insanity to Alaskans, along with our own home grown queen of insanity, Sarah Palin. What I have not quite been able to figure out is exactly WHY.

    There is of course THIS rumor: [ ]

    And yes there HAS been some speculation about that up here. (This speculation was even mentioned in Michael Gross’s Vanity Fair piece.) However I find it very difficult to believe that EVEN Sarah “Everything is all about me” Palin could be so simple minded as to announce her candidacy on 9-11. I imagine that not only would liberals rake her over the coals, but even many conservatives would pick up their sticks and beat her like a teabagging pinata.

    Besides apparently she is giving a speech in Missoula, Montana the very next day. And NOBODY who has just announced their candidacy for President of the United States would immediately run off to help open a faith based alcohol and drug rehabilitation center in Montana. Not even Sarah Palin. (Hmm Palin and Montana. Where have I heard those two things mentioned together before?)

    However my spidey sense tells me that Glenn Beck is not flying all of the way up here on September 11th, just because he believes the fresh air might finally clear up his asthma. Something is definitely up.

    So my friends, if you hear any right wing murmurings, or crazy religious talk about the end times, give us a shout will you?

  23. owlbear1 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 9:08

    The New York Times and the Washington Post have basically promised Republicans a sweeping victory in November.

    This all by itself should be a hopeful sign to Democrats.

  24. S. cerevisiae said,

    September 8, 2010 at 9:15

    Really, she IS Greg Stillson.

  25. The Truthful Problem With The Speaker Elect said,

    September 8, 2010 at 12:20

    Bookmarked!

    Would you also like us to order the tonne of Kleenex you always require on the 57th day, Troofus? You know, the day when after wibbling on for weeks with your predictions, you always get them completely and utterly wrong, because you are literally the worst understander of politics on either side of the aisle?

  26. El Cid said,

    September 8, 2010 at 12:21

    They don’t have to be social retards among those who likely share their views and prejudices.

    I mean, it’s not like here in the South, where white conservative anti-Obamunism is the strongest and most consistent, that a white guy couldn’t go into any business, start bitching and moaning with TeaTard eructations, and wouldn’t find instant agreement.

    The notion that they’re infertile non-breeders is insane.

  27. Scott said,

    September 8, 2010 at 12:40

    Hell, I’m getting worried that the next Republican president, whenever he or she gets into office, will actually do the stuff the teabaggers want, instead of the usual exploit-’til-election-then-ignore pattern. Think Nixon or Cheney, but without reluctance to put brown people and political opponents in death camps…

  28. Gary Ruppert said,

    September 8, 2010 at 13:09

    The fact is, if brown people and political opponents are enemies of freedom, they need to be put in camps. After all, liberals want to put Tea Bag Party Patriots in camps.

  29. owlbear1 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 13:13

    Gary, that’s not what ‘take a hike’ means.

  30. D. Aristophanes said,

    September 8, 2010 at 13:24

    The notion that they’re infertile non-breeders is insane.

    Yes, you’ve identified the huge flaw in my argument … ow, my head hurts.

  31. Lurking Canadian said,

    September 8, 2010 at 13:26

    The notion that they’re infertile non-breeders is insane.

    I was going to say a variant of this. A lot of them have kids. A smaller lot of them have gay kids, who are beaten, shamed and sent to gay camp, then disowned if it didn’t take. The notion that exposure to the world, especially in the context of a large crowd of their equally bigoted friends, will expand their consciousness is unconvincing.

    Now, if they started having black kids…well that would shake things up but good.

  32. Beavis said,

    September 8, 2010 at 13:31

    HEH HEH.. …he said…. Tea Bag Party heh….heh..

  33. Anonymous said,

    September 8, 2010 at 13:36

    After all, liberals want to put Tea Bag Party Patriots in camps.

    No Gary, the thread is about the publc displays. Out in the sunshine shining like crazy diamonds.

  34. N__B said,

    September 8, 2010 at 13:36

    NIXON!
    NIXON!!
    NIXON!!!!

    Just don’t say that while staring in a mirror.

  35. LittlePig said,

    September 8, 2010 at 14:17

    Just don’t say that while staring in a mirror.

    “Back! Back you headless body of Agnew!”

    “UUUGHHH!”

  36. Carribbean Walrus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 14:18

    Where is the Generic Democrat running against the Generic Republican?
    That schmoe better get their act in gear! The Generic Voter wants to shake his generic hand and kiss the Generic Baby. What does a Generic Baby’s cry sound like? Waaaa!

  37. Disgruntled Lurker said,

    September 8, 2010 at 14:22

    George Wallace

    I’ve been thinking a lot about George Wallace lately. He was definitely an evil motherfucker. But I keep coming back to the fact that he actually apologized. Not this “I regret that some were offended by my remarks” bullshit. But met face-to-face with the people he had wronged and said “I totally, unequivocally, fucked up.”

    Maybe being from Alabama has something to do with, but that really makes me want to almost like the guy. I mean, who does that anymore?

  38. Disgruntled Lurker said,

    September 8, 2010 at 14:23

    Also, apologies for being about 60 posts off topic.

  39. vacuumslayer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 14:52

    Looks like I gave up hard liquor at the wrong time.

    Also, as a misanthropist, I resent being lumped in with teatards. Some of misanthropes are tons of fun, you know.

  40. Dot said,

    September 8, 2010 at 15:00

    “Independent” used to mean: “I don’t know anything about the issues and I’ll be damned if I’ll take the effort to find anything out about them.”

    Now it means: “Even the rabid rightwing freak show the Republican party has become isn’t rabid enough for me.”

    +++++++++++++++++++++

    My conservative friends who simply want their tax cuts without a healthy dose of sociopathy call themselves “independents”. I keep telling them “You are how you vote, and you’re not voting for Democrats.” They also like to pretend they’re “libertarians”. I’m not sure which label is worse–trying to evade responsibility for the religious whackos and tea party dunderheads is a very tricky balancing act.

  41. Anonymous said,

    September 8, 2010 at 15:05

    Steve, Sarah starbursts IS Greg Stillson.

    It sure is easy to imagine her holding up Trig and hoping he takes the bullet, isn’t it?

  42. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 15:05

    DA,

    You really think this is a new thing? See George Wallace. See Ross Perot. See the populist movements of William Jennings Bryan, or Andrew Jackson.

    The exposure of ALL of those has been unable to stop the rampaging idio-phant! There is a stubborn minority that will remain vocal and obstreperous in their fear of the future. I suspect this same percentage, around 25%, is to be found in every nation.

    The difference here is, we give them airtime out of proportion to their political impact or philosophies.

  43. Beulahmo said,

    September 8, 2010 at 15:12

    Awww! You’re so cute when you’re drunk, with your cute little faith in humanity and stuff! :-DD

  44. smedley said,

    September 8, 2010 at 15:17

    I remember reading somewhere (here?) about two years ago that racists would be shown the error of their ways by the everyday ordinariness of the Obamas going about their daily lives. I don’t think it has worked out thay way.

  45. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 15:27

    I don’t think it has worked out thay way.

    In fairness, they seem to have transferred their hate to Muslims, with the exception of focusing on the Obamas individually. Blacks seem to get ignored.

    I’m not sure that’s a good thing. Just because a man is silenced does not mean he’s converted.

  46. vacuumslayer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 15:49

    I actually think it makes the racists angrier that he hasn’t lived down to their expectations.

  47. me said,

    September 8, 2010 at 15:54

    I’d say the number who fail to graduate from high school approximates the upper boundary of the teaville nation.

    And with graduation rates hovering in the low 70%’s year on year on year, it is wishful thinking that this pulsating mass of collective ignorance will somehow disappear into the void.

    They are also a self-replicating entity.

    (sure, some teatards have diplomas, some even have gone on to graduate from bible colleges and whatnot)

  48. LittlePig said,

    September 8, 2010 at 15:56

    Blacks seem to get ignored.

    On the surface maybe, but the media surface is always about a millimeter thick. Blacks are an extremely important element of Republican politics. Without black folks, ignorant-ass while people might actually vote in their own best interests, but as long as dirt-poor trailer trash need somebody to look down on, they will cut off their nose to spite their faces every time.

    Now that we’re Lee Atwatered to roughly the fourth power, it never appears as such, of course, but it’s there. It’s one of the tripartite bases of modern Republicanism: Blacks for the racists, abortion for the fundamentalists, and the Cult Of The Free Market for the Asperger’s folks libertarians.

  49. El Cid said,

    September 8, 2010 at 15:58

    Another thing is that many of the people I know and have known would be personally the nicest folk and do really big things to help out people they know, coming out in the middle of the night to pick you up if the car broke down, etc. But by God don’t you dare mention any liberal or agnostic/atheistic/secular opinions, because they’d either go off furiously in screaming, frothing anger or cut you off completely as a friend or both.

  50. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:02

    Blacks are an extremely important element of Republican politics.

    Oh, absolutely! See that all it takes is a few “armed New Black Panthers” to rile up the base. I’m saying their importance has been co-opted by gay marriage and Islamists.

  51. LittlePig said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:02

    But by God don’t you dare mention any liberal or agnostic/atheistic/secular opinions, because they’d either go off furiously in screaming, frothing anger or cut you off completely as a friend or both.

    I know, right? As long as you don’t touch the Sore Of Doubt, a lot of them are folks who’d give you the shirt off their back (and a lot would just as soon shoot you as look at you, but, to quote Mr. Natural,”T’was ever thus”).

    Tip over the hate jar though, and Katy bar the door.

  52. LittlePig said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:07

    I’m saying their importance has been co-opted by gay marriage and Islamists.

    I don’t know I’d say importance, but focus-wise, absolutely. Gay marriage is kinda on the way out as Outrage du jour, but with the eeeevile Mooselims building the Burlington Coat Factory Victory Minaret Terrorist Training Center, oh yeah baby, that’s the hot Hate Spot for this cycle.

  53. Pryme said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:13

    In other news, Commissioner Gordon says closing Arkham Asylum is good for the City of Gotham.

  54. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:25

    eeeevile Mooselims building the Burlington Coat Factory Victory Minaret Terrorist Training Center, oh yeah baby, that’s the hot Hate Spot for this cycle.

    I’ve always thought that if I was going to open a Muslim terror training facility in lower Manhattan, I’d open a multilevel carpet store. I bet you no one would object yet I’d have all that empty “warehouse space” to put up an obstacle course, have a video screening room, install a money changing facility, all behind the facade of a nice Persian rug.

    The last thing I’d want to open would be an Islamic Cultural Center.

  55. Pryme said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:27

    LittlePig,

    The “Muslims stopped New York traffic to pray and ohmygodtheyistakingoveramericawhyisn’tobamadoinganything” email is making its rounds as we speak, complete with out-of-context pictures.

  56. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:29

    “Muslims stopped New York traffic to pray and ohmygodtheyistakingoveramericawhyisn’tobamadoinganything”

    They changed it from London to NYC? There was some kerfuffel a few years ago about a bus driver here, but it turned out the guy just got sick to his stomach and ran into a store to use a toilet.

  57. N__B said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:29

    Commissioner Gordon says closing Arkham Asylum is good for the City of Gotham.

    It’s been tried.

  58. S. cerevisiae said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:29

    Can we just bring back the Great Old Ones now? I’m sick of this shit.

    Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn!

  59. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:30

    The funniest lie I’ve heard about the Cordoba Center is that Muslims build monuments to their victories in battle and that this is why they are so keen to have the center built.

  60. The Goddamn Batman Can Fight Crime While Holding A Martini (Three Olives) In One Hand Without Spilling A Single Drop said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:39

    1) First of all: no more drunkblogging unless you share. I mean it this time.

    2) Speaking of which: “In other news, Commissioner Gordon says closing Arkham Asylum is good for the City of Gotham.” Yeah, I’ll have to talk to Jim about hitting the slivovitz a little too hard.

    3) The real value of the Tea Party is exactly that of the Reform Party back in the nineties: splitting the haterade junkie vote off of the GOP.

  61. Anonymous said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:44

    Stop tarnishing the reputation of us real sociopaths by saddling us with these teabag meatheads. We true sociopaths actually know what the fuck we’re doing! Also, “teabag pinata” sounds like a great party activity!

  62. 77south said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:47

    In other news: http://www.textsfromlastnight.com has been devouring my free time lately. seriously I can’t stop reading this site. hilarious.

  63. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:47

    “they are naturally misanthropic shut-ins”

    Hey, now. On behalf of naturally misanthropic shut-ins who are not authoritarian assholes, I demand an apology!

  64. Mysticdog said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:49

    Let me take the negative viewpoint, and completely agree with you as a result. They will come out and become disgusted at each other, either for having more bigoted viewpoints than they at some elements of society, or for having not enough bigoted viewpoints than they at other elements of society. Ultimately, they will each decide that the only thing they hate more than all the X ruining their country is all the psychopaths around them that think that Y and Z are ruining their country. Then they will slink back under their rocks, hating the leaders that couldn’t keep the Y and Z haters under control and ruined the one last opportunity to defend the country from X.

    Unfortunately, they will probably have started the second Civil War by then. So give me two doubles.

  65. g said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:50

    eeeevile Mooselims building the Burlington Coat Factory Victory Minaret Terrorist Training Center, oh yeah baby, that’s the hot Hate Spot for this cycle.

    Well, the only bright spot is that it takes the spotlight off Latinos, gives Spanish-speaking people a little break from receiving the full force of the Firehose of Hate.

  66. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 16:56

    The funniest lie I’ve heard about the Cordoba Center is that Muslims build monuments to their victories in battle and that this is why they are so keen to have the center built.

    Oh, yeah. I think someone said that on that video from the Beck rally that I posted a few days ago. He even went so far to* say that they wanted to make it their new Mecca.

    I don’t know about you, but all my religion’s sacred spaces include basketball courts and steam rooms. Well, steam rooms, at least.

    *I almost wrote “fart” here and could not stop giggling. I think I need to get out of the house.

  67. El Cid said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:00

    The funniest lie I’ve heard about the Cordoba Center is that Muslims build monuments to their victories in battle and that this is why they are so keen to have the center built.

    Plus, it’s not like Christian rulers in Europe ever built big castles and cathedrals.

  68. Angry Geometer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:03

    Muslims build monuments to their victories in battle and that this is why they are so keen to have the center built.

    We will crush the infidel, and then we shall build a squash court upon the ruins, so nothing will ever grow again! Not even squash!

    Let us celebrate our great victory the way the Koran commands it — by building a lap pool! Of course, we’ll have to allow non-Muslims in, so they can see the day care center, the affordably-priced Pilates classes, etc. and understand just how thoroughly they’ve been defeated; their infidel way of life completely subsumed.

    When Islamofascism comes to America, it will be draped in an American flag jogging suit and just trying to get some fucking cardio in on its lunch break.

  69. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:06

    When Islamofascism comes to America, it will be draped in an American flag jogging suit and just trying to get some fucking cardio in on its lunch break.

    Indeed, we will rub their noses in it so hard, that we will even open a Jewish prayer room, a Christian prayer room, serve bacon in our cafe, and open a multicultural memorial to the 9/11 attacks.

  70. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:07

    Yays! They’ve found a new enemy. Gays rejoice.

  71. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:08

    And, DA, not only do I think you’re overly optimistic, I also think you’re mischaracterizing the TBs. They’re not going to change their viewpoints any time soon–most of them had these ideas, or at least, the feelings behind these ideas long before Beck or Palin or anyone else exploited them. And they’re not the kind of people who change their minds. In fact, when they’re given evidence that their viewpoints are wrong, they often dig in further.

    Most of these people are also “normal” people. They have families, jobs, houses, etc etc etc…they’ve come into contact with people who disagree with them, at least occasionally, and all that has done is, as I said, caused them to dig in deeper AND develop a persecution complex.

  72. LittlePig said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:09

    Can we just bring back the Great Old Ones now? I’m sick of this shit.

    Like the sign said, “Why Settle For The Lesser Evil?”

  73. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:10

    Gays rejoice.

    Don’t waste all the joice, now!

  74. Anonymous said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:10

    this whole teabagging clusterfuck is going to collapse upon itself and wind up shooting rainbows and unicorns out of its violently expiring asshole.

    Nice imagery. Reminds me of a huge zuchini I grew. Left it onthe counter and went on vacation, and it still looked okay, thought I’d use it.
    Then yesterday it did that, without the rainbows and unicorns. But it did collapse with a pretty good stench.

  75. El Cid said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:11

    we shall build a squash court

    Pffft. Everyone knows that in Muslimism, all fruit/vegetable-centered legal disputes are determined under Sha-na-na law by some sort of Ayatoilet.

  76. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:12

    Plus, it’s not like Christian rulers in Europe ever built big castles and cathedrals.

    In conquered mosques.

  77. El Cid said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:13

    In conquered mosques.

    Places for goths to hang out don’t count.

  78. 77south said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:14

    Plus, it’s not like Christian rulers in Europe ever built big castles and cathedrals.
    or turned a pagan temple into a church *cough*Pantheon*cough* or built a church on the site of a victory *cough* Montmartre*cough*

  79. jim x / another j said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:16

    You know, pardon me for not even having any drinks in me when I say this: maybe civil war wouldn’t be entirely a bad thing.

    There’s no way they’d have the resources to beat the North – or in this case, the North and the East and West coasts. We’re financially supporting these red-state jackholes as it is.

    So either they get to their own way, and experience the dystopia they want for all – or, they get the ass-kicking they richly deserve.

    Would that be so bad? I mean besides all the dead and wounded and burning buildings and innocent lives destroyed forever and stuff.

  80. 77south said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:17

    In conquered mosques.
    Interestingly enough, the wiklpedia page you linked describes the Great Mosque of Cordoba as being built on the site of the earlier church of Saint Vincent.

  81. Mr. Wonderful said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:18

    They will come out and become disgusted at each other…

    Nice point. The endless mitosis (if that’s the word I want, Jeeves) of radical organizations is a familiar phenom. Add to that the facts that any kind of victory in November will a) bring all the temptations of power to bear, including corruption and overreaching, and b) rob them of at least some of their ability to feel Eternally Victimized, and it might end up being damn good (albeit depressing) sport to watch.

  82. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:18

    Would that be so bad? I mean besides all the dead and wounded and burning buildings and innocent lives destroyed forever and stuff.

    My carpetbag is out of storage and dusted off.

  83. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:20

    *cough*Pantheon*cough*

    I was torn betwen amusement and disgust when visiting the Pantheon at finding so many people kneeling in prayer at the entrance and all over inside. There’s a great gelato shop in the adjacent piazza.

  84. 77south said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:25

    I was torn betwen amusement and disgust when visiting the Pantheon at finding so many people kneeling in prayer at the entrance and all over inside
    I am confused by this. It’s been a holy site for 2000 years, and you didn’t expect to find people praying there?

  85. Nymstradamus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:27

    Rep. John Boehner said,
    September 8, 2010 at 6:52

    I just want to say you’ve done an amazingly shitty job on the economy ever since you’ve been voted in as Speaker of the House by the Electoral Punditry this August.

  86. El Cid said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:28

    I was torn betwen amusement and disgust when visiting the Pantheon at finding so many people kneeling in prayer at the entrance and all over inside.

    Christians must first ask forgiveness before entering such an evil temple to paganism.

  87. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:30

    There’s a great gelato shop in the adjacent piazza.

    At least its not a KFC like at the Pyramids.

  88. Nymstradamus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:35

    Here’s where the Tea Party movement comes in. For the first time in living memory, the social retards are actually emerging from their secret lairs to kibbitz amongst other people in the light of day.

    I find it difficult to believe that anything Tea Partiers do can be described in Yiddish terms.

  89. jim x / another j said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:37

    My carpetbag is out of storage and dusted off.

    They can start working off all that fried-food fat by dining on tofu while building my new mansion.

  90. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:38

    Not entirely OT –

    I’m reading The Guns of August. Though I haven’t read even half yet, I highly recommend it. (take that, Megan McAddled) One thing that’s got me consternated is the knowledge that nothing so thoroughly devoid of polemic could even hope to be a best seller today. It’s no Overton Window, that’s for sure.

    Anyway, the following struck me as somehow relevant to us today.

    Character is fate, the Greeeks believed. A hundred years of German philosophy went into the making of this decision* in which the seed of self-destruction lay embedded,waiting for its hour. The voice was Schlieffen’s but the hand was tthe hand of Fichte who saw the German people chosen by Providence to occupy the supreme place in the history oif the universe, of Hegel who saw them leading the world to a glorious destiny of compulsory Kultur, and of Nietzsche who told them that supermen were above ordinary controls., of Treitschke who set the increase of power as the highest moral duty of the state [...] What made the Schlieffen plan was not Clausewitz and the Battle of Cannae, but the body of accumulated egoism which suckled the German people and created a nation fed on “the desperate delusion of the will that deems itself absolute.”

    *The decision to invade France, violating Belgium neutrality as it was “necessary” because the war itself was “necessary” (Cf.) and the only way to assure victory was by going through Belgium.

  91. Major Kong said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:44

    On ne passe pas!

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/On_Ne_Passe_Pas_1918.jpg

  92. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:44

    I am confused by this. It’s been a holy site for 2000 years, and you didn’t expect to find people praying there?

    Not quite 2000 years, only somewhat more than half that, but that’s neither here nor there. It’s the idea of people praying to their particular sky fairy (the goddess Virgin Mary in this case) with all the sincerity and fervor they can muster. New sky fairy, same as the old sky fairy. Same place as the old sky fairies. _Everything_ is the same except the icon.

  93. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:47

    And, to finish the thought, their sure knowledge that _this_ is the right sky fairy, and the disdain they certainly hold for those _other_ sky fairies.

  94. Gary Ruppert said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:48

    The fact is, the freedom of and the following review helpful / trustworthy is what liberals believe exists to take your money without any risk and reinvest in high definition television programming will take place inside themselves and find their
    rightful places in the world offering Internet access to their profile at justin.tv live ivory coast vs algeria live streaming here for free moving quotes from international movers in London for their first time in
    the future and they are nothing but another facsimile transmission of freedom and liberty of free speech interests of the children often have an impact only on the liberal side of the road.

  95. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:48

    Hey, now. On behalf of naturally misanthropic shut-ins who are not authoritarian assholes, I demand an apology!

    I would too, but in keeping with tradition, I will instead only sullenly glower and rage at the writer until, one far-off day, he finally dies of all the accumulated hatred and anger directed towards him.

    I will, of course, have died long before that date, due to the sullen rage and hatred not being very healthy. And with my last dying breath, I will go “curse you, fellow who slighted me!” Then rage, rage, against the dying of the light.

  96. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:50

    Gary Ruppert said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:48

    Gary? This might be the most coherent thing I’ve ever seen you post wastewater Burma.

  97. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:51

    the disdain they certainly hold for those _other_ sky fairies.

    Except they’d respect them enough not to call them “sky fairies”. ;-)

  98. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:52

    When did our poor Gary get subverted by spam?

  99. 77south said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:54

    Except they’d respect them enough not to call them “sky fairies”. ;-)
    “Demon” is more respectful than “sky-fairy”?
    “Another Pope, Boniface, asked the same [Emperor Phocas, in Constantinople] to order that in the old temple called the Pantheon, after the pagan filth was removed, a church should be made, to the holy virgin Mary and all the martyrs, so that the commemoration of the saints would take place henceforth where not gods but demons were formerly worshiped.”

  100. Xecky Gilchrist said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:55

    “Demon” is more respectful than “sky-fairy”?

    Absolutely – they are at least taking the heathen god seriously.

  101. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:56

    “Demon” is more respectful than “sky-fairy”?

    In that implies existence, yes.

  102. Bigby said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:56

    For the record, I’ve been registered Independent since 1986 and I’m basically a Green or Socialist. I just don’t like Party Politics and the way the Democrats have disappointed lately (after I gave them $$ and campaigned for some), and the Republicans have always done, seems to prove me right. I’d probably register Dem if my state and city weren’t One Party States anyway, and haven’t voted for a Republican for any office since I was young, stupid and voted for Reagan in ’84.

    Just sayin’, there must be some “I’m Independent because the Democratic Party is too far Center-Right for me” to oppose the “I’m Independent because I make bux, want to pay zero taxes to make more bux, but those dumbass Teatards are embarrassing to us Randian Supermen” types.

  103. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:56

    “In that IT implies…”

    Fucking keyboards…how do they work?

  104. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 17:57

    “I’m Independent because the Democratic Party is too far Center-Right for me”

    The Working Families Party is over on the left of the auditorium.

  105. Nom de Plume said,

    September 8, 2010 at 18:01

    They’ve won Crazy August™

    Yes, just as they won last Crazy August. Perhaps we should take heart that the only time anyone pays attention to them is when nobody is paying attention to anything.

  106. El Cid said,

    September 8, 2010 at 18:08

    Polls continually demonstrate that the vast majority of those who identify themselves as “Independents” vote either strongly liberal or strongly conservatives. The notion that there’s a vast sea of mushy centrist Independents waiting for a bipartisan god candidate is just nonsense.

  107. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 18:10

    Except they’d respect them enough not to call them “sky fairies”. ;-)

    I know you take it personally (as do almost all theists but that’s a whole ‘nother essay) but please look at this way, which is my honest inner sense: it’s not the people I disrespect but the idea. It’s only when those who hold those ideas “force them down my throat” that I disrespect the person.

    ‘s/sky fairy/false gods/g’ Any better?

    Christians today might say, I don’t believe in Zeus, that was a silly superstition. Yet for many people that was a real god. So it turns out there are 10,000 gods and yet only one right one. That means we’re all atheists on 9,999 gods. The only difference between me and the believers is I’m an atheist on one more god.

    I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. – Stephen F. Roberts

  108. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 18:19

    I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.

    Yeah, it was just as cute when the actual Romans were saying it.

  109. N__B said,

    September 8, 2010 at 18:21

    I’m reading The Guns of August.

    Great book, but I get so angry reading it that it nauseates me. Two inbred congenital morons – Willy and Nicky – destroyed the first half of the 20th century…but people still fall for the cult of the strong man crap.

  110. Bigby said,

    September 8, 2010 at 18:21

    Well, actor, I support people from other parties on an ad hoc basis all the time. They’re not always on our ballots, I kick in for candidates I like in other states, etc. I just don’t wanna be in a Party, even if I lean like Will Rogers…

  111. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 18:23

    cult of the strong man

    Better than the cult of the chicken lady.

  112. Spaghetti Lee said,

    September 8, 2010 at 18:45

    Pupi, As long as they aren’t badgering you into praying, who the fuck cares? I thought it was kind of a major feature of liberalism to know that some people do things differently, and it works for them even if it doesn’t make sense to you, so just live and let live.

  113. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 18:53

    live and let live.

    Live and let live is fine, and jokes at the expense of the religious are funny.

  114. Mysticdog said,

    September 8, 2010 at 18:55

    Third parties really are throwing your vote away with the system as it is designed. I guess it is better than not voting at all, since at least there is some footnote that 5% of the electorate supported someone more extreme than one of the two-party candidates, but its still just a footnote for why the ideologically opposite guy won by 4%. Its possible that eventually it could make the dems put up better candidates if they lost 3 or 4 elections in a row from Green siphoning, but the damage done by republicans in that time means its really not worth it. It worked for the republicans, because their mindset is focused around power, not effective policy. Leftists don’t think the same way; they recognize crazy and bad policy.

    We need freakin instant runoff ballots to open this shit up. The greens in this state tried for years to get it, but the Democrats utterly refused; it breaks their powerlock.

    So we are left waiting for a benevolent demagogue to arise from the liberal side. I just don’t see it happening.

  115. Whale Chowder said,

    September 8, 2010 at 18:55

    live and let live.

    Certainly poopy can speak for hisself but “live and let live” doesn’t mean “not allowed to mock.”

    Taking it out of a quite so touchy realm, Teatards are free to believe whatever they want. Just as I’m free to point and laugh and expose their inner inconsistencies.

  116. Angry Geometer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 18:55

    That quote is nice and pithy and shit, but a pretty big logical fail if you ask me.

    It’s like saying there’s no difference between monogamy and celibacy — because monogamous people don’t believe in fucking everyone, they’re the same as people who don’t believe in fucking anyone.

    The logical conclusion from there would be that Kathryn Jean Lopez is as qualified as a married person to write about monogamous marriage, because she’s celibate.

    It’s almost as if monotheism and polytheism are different things!

  117. guitarist manqué said,

    September 8, 2010 at 18:58

    jokes at the expense of the religious are funny.

    A Dominican a Benedictine and a Jesuit are arguing about which order stands first in the eyes of the Lord. After failing to agree they pray to Heaven for an answer. The clouds part, the Heavens open and a dove flies down bearing a small parchment. It says: Before me all orders are equal. (Signed) God, SJ

  118. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 19:32

    I know you take it personally (as do almost all theists but that’s a whole ‘nother essay) but please look at this way, which is my honest inner sense: it’s not the people I disrespect but the idea.

    Which is why I tease you about it, Poops. If I thought you meant it personally, I’d be a bit harsher. No harm, no foul. I respect your feelings on the matter.

  119. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 19:34

    Well, actor, I support people from other parties on an ad hoc basis all the time.

    I didn’t mean my crack to imply that I thought you were a joke or anything. I meant it sincerely. The only viable alternative to the Democratic party for a lefty is the Working Families Party. I may have teased *it* about being a fringe party, but I support them, have given them money and have even blogged for them from time to time.

  120. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 19:36

    jokes at the expense of the religious are funny.

    A priest, a rabbi and actor212walk into a bar.
    The priest says, “There’s only one God.”
    The rabbi says, “I agree!”
    Actor212 mutters, “Thanks for noticing…”

  121. vacuumslayer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 19:40

    *bitchy atheist sits on hands*

  122. 77south said,

    September 8, 2010 at 19:47

    *bitchy atheist sits on hands*
    if only we were Hindu deities, we could sit on our hands and still get some work done.

  123. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 19:49

    *bitchy atheist sits on hands*

    I was using those!

  124. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 19:54

    We aren’t going to have another religion fight, are we?

    I hate those kinds of fights. I’m always in the middle.

  125. vacuumslayer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 19:59

    I don’t think there’s a fight brewing. I’m just joshing, sorta.

    This I will quit sitting on my hands for, however:

    jokes at the expense of the religious are funny.

    Wholeheartedly agree!

  126. Whale Chowder said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:04

    *bitchy atheist sits on hands*

    If you’re looking for hands to sit on, I volunteer!

  127. Kat said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:05

    This post reminded me of a news article I saw in Yahoo News recently: “montana Tea Party leader fired for making anti-gay post on facebook.” One of the tea partiers in the article said, “we don’t stand for this kind of hate, we want freedom for all.” I nearly choked on my sandwich.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100908/ap_on_go_ot/us_tea_party_montana;_ylt=AlG3lRNx9c9o438CbmIEtnms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTFlanM4YmE3BHBvcwM4NARzZWMDYWNjb3JkaW9uX3BvbGl0aWNzBHNsawNtb250dGVhcGFydHk-

  128. vacuumslayer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:10

    Next you’ll be telling me you don’t think that dude at the Dove church doesn’t really care about gay rights.

  129. vacuumslayer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:11

    If you’re looking for hands to sit on, I volunteer!

    Oh good. That’ll leave me free to type bitchy things.

  130. Whale Chowder said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:12

    Oh good. That’ll leave me free to type bitchy things.

    I’ll try not to distract you too much.

  131. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:14

    We aren’t going to have another religion fight, are we?

    nope. Same old one.

  132. tigris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:16

    And if I’m right, we may see something truly ironic and almost beautiful — a conservative movement that finally decided to take to the streets after decades of grumbling obscenities in the privacy of its walled-off enclaves … and by dint of that long-avoided mingling with fellow citizens discovered that it had more in common with the diverse members of its various cohorts than it had ever imagined.

    This has probably been said 80 times already, but no. Their rallies are enclaves, too, where even totally like-minded people caught carrying “Boo Eurasia” signs are pinpointed as liberal infiltrators, so forget their finding commonality in diversity. It’s like being cheered by a Klan rally because hey, at least they’re getting out of the house.

  133. smedley said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:20

    A Dominican a Benedictine and a Jesuit are arguing about which order stands first in the eyes of the Lord. After failing to agree they pray to Heaven for an answer. The clouds part, the Heavens open and a dove flies down bearing a small parchment. It says: I can’t keep these orders straight. Who ordered the chicken salad?

  134. vacuumslayer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:23

    We aren’t going to have another religion fight, are we?

    nope. Same old one.

    By all means, let’s mix it up. When was the last time those uppity Druids got was coming to them?

  135. vacuumslayer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:24

    What tigris said.

  136. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:29

    Mobs with torches are merely lighting the way to freedom.

  137. Sirius Lunacy said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:29

    “Ever notice how poeple who want to share their views on religion with you don’t want you to share yours with them?”

    Now, Glenn Beck said his whole Lincoln Memorial get together would not be political. But it was all about politics. The right have been using religion for politics for my entire life. They make the argument that if we want to return to economic prosperity that we’ve seen in the past we must return to the good Christian values of that period and all go to church on Sunday like good Americans used to. And amazingly, a large number of people buy it. And when these politicians saddle us with atrocious economic policies they can still convince people that the problem is the gays, lesbians, ferriners and athiests have made God angry and if we just stop aborting babies God would make us all rich.

  138. 77south said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:31

    Mobs with torches are merely lighting the way to freedom.
    they will show us the way forward by the light of burning bridges!

  139. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:31

    The right have been using religion for politics for my entire life.

    Oddly, there was a time when the left did the same thing, you know, for equality and peace and stuff.

    We were pretty successful, too.

  140. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:32

    Mobs with torches are merely lighting the way to freedom.

    Halon is the Jew of Liberal Firefighting.

    ALT:

    Halon is theft.

  141. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:34

    That quote is nice and pithy and shit, but a pretty big logical fail if you ask me.

    Oho! The game is afoot afinger! It’s that last sentence of the quote that no one gets.

    It’s like saying there’s no difference between monogamy and celibacy — because monogamous people don’t believe in fucking everyone, they’re the same as people who don’t believe in fucking anyone.

    Nope. You’ve misstated what monogamous means. Monogamous people believe in fucking only one person. As a theist (generally, anymore) believes in exactly one deity. Asexuals believe in fucking no one. As atheists belive in no deities.

    Put it another way: Let G be the set of all gods. Actor, for example claims G = {Jesus/Jehovah}. Mahmet claims G = {Allah}. Schlomo says G = {Jehovah} (please don’t stone me!) And so on. The set of all gods is then the union G = {allah, Jehovah, Zeus, Ahura Mazsa, Wotan, …}. Now, to pick on my dear friend actor as an example, his claim that G = {Yeshua} is equivalent to saying G = ~{G – Yeshua}. Similarly for the others. My claim is that G = {&#216}. Whereas a theist will deny the existence of every god save their’s atheists deny the existence of every god including whichever one that particular theist believes.

    The logical conclusion from there would be that Kathryn Jean Lopez [...]

    Sorry, putting “logical conclusion” and “Kathryn Jean Lopez” in the same sentence makes baby Jesus cry and also runs the risk of destroying the entire universe in a logic-antilogic explosion.

    It’s almost as if monotheism and polytheism are different things!

    Monotheism -> |G| = 1. Polytheism -> |G| = >= 2. Atheism -> |G| = 0.

    Now you’ll have to excuse me – I need to take Bagoas to the doggie park before he drives me nucking futz.

  142. vacuumslayer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:35

    Mobs with torches are merely lighting the way to freedom.

    Heh.

  143. vacuumslayer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:37

    OT: Does anyone else get super-excited when iTunes updates and the interface looks a little different? I don’t know what it is about it, but it always makes me happy. The new icon on my dash is all different! Squee!!!

  144. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:38

    Poopy, interesting analysis, except…

    Actor believes in Jehovah as part of the triune God. Mahmet believes in Jehovah = Allah, and Muhammad was divine as well.

  145. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:39

    The new icon on my dash is all different! Squee!!!

    It was disconcerting after nearly a decade. But I’ll make do.

  146. Bigby said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:41

    I dinna take it the wrong way, actor, so we’re cool. I agree that most 3rd parties are ‘nearly’ throwing your vote away, as MysticDog suggests. I play tactical and strategic. If there’s a 3rd party shitstirrer in the mix, I might give them money, to, um, shit stir, but if it came down to “turn the keys back over to the thugs” vs “hold my nose and vote Dem”, foul odors ain’t a problem for me in that case. Neither is voting 3rd party in a city that’s about 90% Dem, which “might” have the effect of moving the local Dems leftward, which I view as a Good Thing (same as supporting a 3rd party candidate anywhere else, too). In other words, I can be counted on to do whatever I can to keep the Republicans out of power, but don’t call me a Democratic Party Member. Actually, MOST of the reason I’m not a Dem is that I want proportional representation and/or runoff votes, I want public finance, I don’t like the Seniority System or Committee Assignments based on Party and seats. I don’t like a whole lot of things that entrench party power in our current 2 party system, but I’m realistic they ain’t gonna change soon, so I work with the Dems when they at least try to make life better for us ‘little people’ and fight against oligarchy but won’t hold my vote for a Dem even if 95% of them in Congress dig the System just as it is.

  147. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:42

    Please also excuse the extraneous idempotency graph.

    |G| >= 2.

  148. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:43

    CANDY CORN!

  149. tsam said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:43

    Pupienus Maximus said,
    September 8, 2010 at 17:07

    Yays! They’ve found a new enemy. Gays rejoice.

    There’s a lot of election cycle left. They’ll get back to you soon. The fucking dirtbags can’t help themselves. Gay people will always be targeted by useless, subhuman fuckwit morons. It’s way too saddening that they can’t just figure it out. But they never will.

  150. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:44

    Muhammad was divine

    He was super-important, being the last prophet and all – nice trick! – but he was a guy.

  151. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:45

    In other words, I can be counted on to do whatever I can to keep the Republicans out of power, but don’t call me a Democratic Party Member.

    Me, neither. Call me a liberal, a leftist, even a (ugh) progressive, but don’t call me a Democrat, because I’m not. I’ll vote for those motherfuckers over Republicans any day because they represent my interests more than Republicans do (and don’t actively try to tear them down), but I haven’t called myself a Democrat in quite some time.

  152. tsam said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:46

    Mobs with torches are merely lighting the way to freedom.

    And to the beauty of missing eyebrows.

  153. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:46

    Actor believes in Jehovah as part of the triune God. Mahmet believes in Jehovah = Allah, and Muhammad was divine as well.

    Agreed but without loss of generality to my analysis. Simply replace the unitary deities I cited and replace them with subsets of G.

  154. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:47

    And to the beauty of missing eyebrows.

    Eyebrows are theft.

  155. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:48

    I don’t like a whole lot of things that entrench party power in our current 2 party system, but I’m realistic they ain’t gonna change soon

    Sadly, winner-take-all elections end up following Duverger’s law.

    Duverger hypothesized that, like Sith Lords, winner-take-all environments will create two party systems, and only two party systems. There cannot be three (for any length of time) nor only one. American history bears this out: when the Whigs divided in 1852 over slavery (creating the Republican party), the Whigs quickly died off.

  156. Whale Chowder said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:49

    Muhammad was divine

    I’m not gonna pass judgement until I can see a picture.

  157. noen said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:50

    Christians today might say, I don’t believe in Zeus, that was a silly superstition. Yet for many people that was a real god. So it turns out there are 10,000 gods and yet only one right one. That means we’re all atheists on 9,999 gods. The only difference between me and the believers is I’m an atheist on one more god.

    I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. – Stephen F. Roberts

    The problem with the above quote is how deeply prejudiced and narrow minded it is in favor of one particular worldview. The Greeks simply didn’t understand their gods in anyway resembling how we do. Greek society was profoundly different than our own.

    Did the Greeks Believe in Their Myths?

    Behind the seemingly narrow and specialised title “Did Greeks believe in their myths?” really hides a philosophical essay on the nature of our world-view. What is truth, and is it possible that there’re many “truths”, not just one? Did the concept of truth in modern sense exist in ancient times? When did modern history begin and what’re its methods? What is myth, and isn’t our science (Einstein, Freud, etc.) also based on its own myth?

  158. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:51

    He was super-important, being the last prophet and all – nice trick! – but he was a guy.

    Who, um, could split the moon in twain.

    Yea. I think I’m right.

  159. tigris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:51

    I find it difficult to believe that anything Tea Partiers do can be described in Yiddish terms.

    Everything Tea Partiers do can be described with a Yiddish term: mishegas.

  160. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:52

    The Greeks simply didn’t understand their gods in anyway resembling how we do.

    Well, look, their Gods came down and raped women, got drunk, killed men in battle, and generally behaved all too human.

  161. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:52

    One final note befiore I either go or kill the puppy. Please note that in the above I am not arguing against theism, nor “for atheism” (as if there could be such an argument which position I will happily discuss at another time) but merely explicating the atheist position. Arguments for or against god are a whole other can of worms.

  162. guitarist manqué said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:54

    Last thread: guitar gods.

    This thread: regular gods.

  163. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:54

    Who, um, could split the moon in twain.

    So Moses is divine for parting the Red Sea?

  164. noen said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:57

    atheists deny the existence of every god including whichever one that particular theist believes.

    Except that I’ve been repeatedly told that atheism is not the denial of god but the “lack of belief”. I wish you guys would get your stories straight.

  165. J— said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:57

    Last thread: guitar gods.

    This thread: regular gods.

    Clapton is!

  166. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:59

    Clapton is!

    Isn’t!

  167. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 20:59

    Well, look, their Gods came down and raped women, got drunk, killed men in battle, and generally behaved all too human.

    Any gods are going to have human traits (if we assign traits to them at all) because we only understand the world from a human perspective. Some of us may have a more sophisticated view of God(s) than others, but ultimately, if God does exist, I doubt our little brainz can even begin to contemplate what It’s* like.

    *The fact that we assign gender to god(s) only further illustrates this point.

  168. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:02

    Also, too, I’m not making an argument against religion (believe whatever the fuck you want as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone, I sez), just saying that when people are super-militant about assigning human traits to their gods, I usually run the other way.

  169. tigris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:02

    Except that I’ve been repeatedly told that atheism is not the denial of god but the “lack of belief”. I wish you guys would get your stories straight.

    There’s no atheist pope, no Unholy Book, etc for a system to coalesce around, just a metric assload of individuals with different thoughts, arguments, reasons, etc.

  170. J— said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:04

    I find it difficult to believe that anything Tea Partiers do can be described in Yiddish terms.

    Everything Tea Partiers do can be described with a Yiddish term: mishegas.

    Tea baggers: The Chelmite’s loathsome, right-wing cousins from America.

  171. noen said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:06

    “Well, look, their Gods came down and raped women, got drunk, killed men in battle, and generally behaved all too human.”

    Well no not really, they were not people. They did not believe that if you climbed Mount Olympus you would see them there. They were not fundamentalists. The Greek gods were more akin to what we would call moods that overtook you. One didn’t lay down and go to sleep, Morpheus came and overtook you.

    Think about how different your world has to be where you do not so much act but are acted upon by external beings beyond your control. That’s what the Greek gods were. They were externalized and objectified emotions.

  172. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:08

    Subs, I’m not alone in my belief. The Gnostics list Muhammad as a saint, and contemporary Christians attributed divinity to him. Considering most of their information would have come from contemporary Muslim sources, it’s not that big a stretch to say, at least tacitly, that Muhammad was a divinity.

    Jesus, on the other hand, specifically singles Moses out as human. I think I can take His word on that.

  173. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:08

    just a metric assload of individuals with different thoughts, arguments, reasons, etc.

    I don’t believe in the metric system.

    I also don’t believe Clapton is God. However, there is a fair bit of evidence that Clapton exists.

  174. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:08

    The split moon is true!

  175. noen said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:09

    ‘There’s no atheist pope’

    Richard Dawkins has a sad.

  176. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:10

    Think about how different your world has to be where you do not so much act but are acted upon by external beings beyond your control. That’s what the Greek gods were. They were externalized and objectified emotions.

    True. The concept of free will seemed to be beyond the Greeks, except when they needed it to prosecute someone like Socrates.

  177. J— said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:10

    The Chelmites captured the moon once in a barrel. Draw your own conclusions.

  178. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:12

    Subs, I’m not alone in my belief. The Gnostics list Muhammad as a saint, and contemporary Christians attributed divinity to him. Considering most of their information would have come from contemporary Muslim sources, it’s not that big a stretch to say, at least tacitly, that Muhammad was a divinity.

    Well if Gnostics and Christians were calling him a god, then he must be.

    In the sense that folks who do magical stuff have godlike attributes, I’m with you on Mohamed, prophets, saints, Mary, leprechauns and Michael Jordan. In the sense that Islam’s great refrain is “There is only one god and Mohamed is his Prophet” he is delineated as a not-god.

  179. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:13

    There’s no atheist pope, no Unholy Book, etc for a system to coalesce around, just a metric assload of individuals with different thoughts, arguments, reasons, etc.

    So except for the Unholy Book, it’s just like Christianity.

  180. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:13

    “There is only one god and Mohamed is his Prophet” he is delineated as a not-god.

    Except for Allah’s three, very divine daughters, you’d be right.

  181. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:13

    Richard Dawkins has a sad.

    Dunk Dawkins in pee!

  182. Sirius Lunacy said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:14

    Last thread: guitar gods.

    This thread: regular gods.

    And Jimi Hendrix was not just a regular god!!!

  183. guitarist manqué said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:15

    Well, look, their Gods came down and raped women, got drunk, killed men in battle, and generally behaved all too human.

    Sounds like guitar gods!

  184. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:15

    So, if I play Guitar Hero enough, I can be a god, too?

  185. justme said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:17

    Ahh, fuck.

    Who was it in the other thread that wondered how long it would take for the reichtards to deem Petraeus a pantywaist liberal dhimmi?

    Wonder no longer.

    Now, Erick Erickson, editor-in-chief of Redstate.com and CNN contributor, has responded to Petraeus’s warning to be respectful of Muslim sensitivities by excoriating the general.

    Twunt.

  186. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:17

    Oh, wait. I don’t have a Wii. Or a TV.

    I do have the fake guitar, though. If I strum on that, will that count?

  187. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:17

    Except for Allah’s three, very divine daughters, you’d be right.

    Written out of Islam AFAIK.

  188. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:20

    Now, Erick Erickson, editor-in-chief of Redstate.com and CNN contributor, has responded to Petraeus’s warning to be respectful of Muslim sensitivities by excoriating the general.

    “I think it is bad form for the military to start applying pressure to influence the political activities”

    So, “Shut the fuck up commie and SUPPORT ARE TROOPS yellow ribbon magnet American flag blah blah blah” is no longer applicable? Sweet!

  189. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:20

    Written out of Islam AFAIK.

    Hey, don’t blame me! They existed. Go blame the editors.

  190. tigris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:22

    So except for the Unholy Book, it’s just like Christianity.

    Well, that may or may not be true, but I doubt most people expect Eastern Orthodox, Pentacostals, and Universalists to “get their stories straight.”

  191. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:23

    I doubt most people expect Eastern Orthodox, Pentacostals, and Universalists to “get their stories straight.”

    Clearly, you’ve never been to a Lutheran synod

  192. guitarist manqué said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:24

    I do have the fake guitar, though. If I strum on that, will that count?

    Worked for Patti Smith.

  193. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:26

    I do have the fake guitar, though. If I strum on that, will that count?

    Worked for Patti Smith.

    And the Monkees.

  194. tigris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:26

    I did say most!

  195. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:37

    I sed “atheists deny the existence of every god including whichever one that particular theist believes.”

    noen sed;

    “Except that I’ve been repeatedly told that atheism is not the denial of god but the “lack of belief”. I wish you guys would get your stories straight.”

    there is no inconsitency nor contradiction. Atheism is literally disbelief in _any_ deity. Thus atheism is the position that there are _no deities. Same thing.

    Now there iz “strong atheism” which asserts that there definitely well almost certainly to proability 1/infinity there no gods. Another brand of atheism says “I can’t prove there aren’t any but I have no reason what so ever to think there are.”. It’s a perhaps subtle but important distinction. To extend things a bit further on the spectrum, the agnostic position is “I neither know nor care.”

    if you ask me I’ll tell you about my own position which has come to be known as anti-theism. I suspect that you do not want to ask, nor would I recommend you do.

  196. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:38

    I did say most!

    Emo Phillips used to tell a great joke about Christians and how they viewed each other.

    I was walking across a bridge one day and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said, “Stop! Don’t do it!”

    “Why shouldn’t I?” he said.

    “Well, there is so much to live for.”

    “Like what?”

    “Well, are you religious?”

    He said yes.

    I said, “Me too! Are you Christian?”

    “Christian.”

    “Me too! Are you Lutheran, Catholic or Protestant?”

    “Protestant.”

    “Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?”

    “Baptist.”

    “Wow, me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?”

    “Baptist Church of the Lord.”

    “Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of the Lord or are you Reformed Baptist Church of the Lord?”

    “Reformed Baptist Church of the Lord.”

    “Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of the Lord, reformation of 1879, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of the Lord, reformation of 1915?”

    He said, “Reformed Baptist Church of the Lord, reformation of 1879.”

    I said, “Die, heretic scum” and pushed him off.

  197. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:38

    Now there iz “strong atheism” which asserts that there definitely well almost certainly to proability 1/infinity there no gods. Another brand of atheism says “I can’t prove there aren’t any but I have no reason what so ever to think there are.”. It’s a perhaps subtle but important distinction.

    One’s fundamentalism, the other’s moderate.

  198. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:39

    Poopy, serious question: You say you’re “anti-theist”. If I’m understanding the term correctly, doesn’t that mean you have to believe in something in order to be against it?

  199. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:40

    Worked for Patti Smith.

    Well, I can settle for being an American Artist With No Guilt, I suppose.

  200. noen said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:40

    John Fahey was the only true guitar god.

  201. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:42

    You say you’re “anti-theist”.

    He’s “anti-theism,” which means he’s against religion, not god(s).

  202. noen said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:45

    “there is no inconsitency nor contradiction. Atheism is literally disbelief in _any_ deity. Thus atheism is the position that there are _no deities. Same thing. “

    Logic fail. The position that there are no deities is not the same as “I lack belief”. Disbelief is “A rejection of belief” and not it’s mere lack. A newborn baby is not an atheist.

  203. 77south said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:47

    Poopy, serious question: You say you’re “anti-theist”. If I’m understanding the term correctly, doesn’t that mean you have to believe in something in order to be against it?
    Well, I personally believe that organized religion exists. I do not believe in the existence of any Gods. My atheism does not mean I acknowledge the existence of Gods. I do acknowledge the existence of theists. I am pretty sure there is a word for people who think there is a God and oppose it. That word is not atheist.

  204. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:47

    He’s “anti-theism,” which means he’s against religion, not god(s).

    Point taken. We can assume the existence of religion.

  205. noen said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:48

    I’m not sure I want to have this argument here. This topic has the potential to drive a wedge when we should all be linking arms to beat back the advancing barbarian hordes.

  206. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:49

    This topic has the potential to drive a wedge when we should all be linking arms to beat back the advancing barbarian hordes.

    Indubitably. Religious arguments of any kind tend to strike people in places that are sensitive.

    So, T&U, show us your boobs.

  207. M. Bouffant said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:51

    If there were a god, it would be necessary to deny him/her/it/them.

  208. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:52

    I am pretty sure there is a word for people who think there is a God and oppose it.

    Kingsley Amis has a character who says something like “It’s not so much that I don’t believe in him, it’s more that I hate him.”

  209. Whale Chowder said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:52

    So a kid’s parents send him to a Catholic middle school, where he eventually joins the wrestling team. He’s hanging out with his neighbor one day and they’re talking about wrestling moves. The neighbor kid wants to learn some moves so the wrestler steps behind him, puts one arm around the neighbor’s arm and then behind his neck.

    “Half-nelson,” says the wrestler.

    Then he puts the other arm around the neighbor’s other arm and then behind his neck too.

    “Full-nelson,” says the wrestler.

    He then begins pumping his hips vigorously against his neighbor’s backside.

    “What the hell is that?!” says the neighbor.

    The wrestler replies, “Father Nelson.”

  210. Chris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:54

    “Independent” used to mean: “I don’t know anything about the issues and I’ll be damned if I’ll take the effort to find anything out about them.”

    Now it means: “Even the rabid rightwing freak show the Republican party has become isn’t rabid enough for me.”

    IMO, “independent” used to mean “I agree with one party on one issue and another on another issue” – e.g, “Yes, I think gay marriage should be allowed, but I also think we should have invaded Iraq.” Which, to quite an extent, makes sense – no one’s ever been 100% right before.

    Now, “independent” means “I want to have the goodies promised to me by both parties without having to pay the price for either.” They’re the people who supported Republican on tax cuts but oppose them on reducing the welfare state, who support Democrats on a “fix the economy plz” platform but recoil in horror when they find out that that costs money.

    And these people piss me off even more than the conservatives.

  211. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:55

    “So except for the Unholy Book, it’s just like Christianity.”

    that’s one of the biggest pet peeves we dirty rotten evil atheists have. One more time, atheists LACK belief. Atheism is not a belief system but the exact opposite. Claiming that the universe was created by and is ruled over by some hairy thundering cosmic muffin sky fairy (sorry, in this case it has to be said) is an extraordinary claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Atheists like me haven’t seen ANYTHING even remotely resembling evidence of ANY sort. Theists make the claim that there is a god. Atheists say “show me the evidence.” Until we see some reason to believe your claim, we do not credit it. There is no _thing_ in which we believe, only your claim in which we have no reason to believe.

    Again, atheism is not something in which we believe but a lack of same.

  212. Chris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:55

    I think xenophobia runs far deeper in the average American than any of us want to admit – think “The Monsters are Due on Maple Street”. There is a deep seeded fear of The Other in far too many of us.

    Unfortunately, I agree. Not only that, but pointing out the plainly obvious like you just did infuriates them even more and feeds the xenophobia thing to an even greater extent.

  213. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 21:56

    the advancing barbarian hordes.

    I read this as “librarian” for a second and wondered why anyone would want to beat back a horde of librarians. Unless they were militant shushers, of course.

  214. Chris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:00

    There’s a very good article in the current Mother Jones (not yet up on the website unless you give them your email) that compares the Teatards with the Birchers and connects them to the Scaifes and Kochs. The bottom line is that these kind of movements have been with us for every Democratic administration since FDR and they probably won’t settle down until another R weasels his way into the White House.

    The thing about the movement conservatives since the 1950s is that while the Gilded Age people were the definition of “establishment,” the new guard gets to portray themselves as outsiders and revolutionaries – which they do among other things by periodically purging their ranks of whoever the elite of the time is (happened in 1964, 1980 and 1994 and again right now).

    Even though they’ve been “the establishment” for a generation at least, they still aren’t perceived that way, which makes it easy for them to co-opt grassroots sentiments like the anti-bailouters.

    Man, this is a good thread. I’m going to try not to respond to everything else…

  215. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:00

    And these people piss me off even more than the conservatives.

    They’re usually more ignorant than conservatives, too, and closer to the Beckian demographic than a lot of conservatives are.

  216. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:03

    Atheists say “show me the evidence.”

    How can you factually prove love?

  217. guitarist manqué said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:03

    librarian hordes

    Oh yeah! Excuse me, I need a moment.

  218. gocart mozart said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:04

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk41Gbjljfo
    Anti-theist, athiest, agnostic, or just damn good song?

  219. Chris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:08

    Hell, I’m getting worried that the next Republican president, whenever he or she gets into office, will actually do the stuff the teabaggers want, instead of the usual exploit-’til-election-then-ignore pattern. Think Nixon or Cheney, but without reluctance to put brown people and political opponents in death camps…

    My recurring trope; Rhetoric. Has. Consequences.

    If you keep blowing your base full of hot air by telling them that every Muslim in America is conspiring with Osama Bin Laden to kill them and their family, sooner or later they’re going to start wondering why you aren’t doing more against them. Then they’re going to start putting pressure on you until you do.

  220. Chris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:09

    They’re usually more ignorant than conservatives, too, and closer to the Beckian demographic than a lot of conservatives are.

    Hmm, good point. Hadn’t thought of that.

  221. gocart mozart said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:13

    hope you got the letter, and…
    I pray you can make it better down here.
    I don’t mean a big reduction in the price of beer
    But all the people that you made in your image, see
    Them starving on their feet ’cause they don’t get
    Enough to eat from God, I can’t believe in you

    Dear God, sorry to disturb you, but… I feel that I should be heard
    Loud and clear. We all need a big reduction in amount of tears
    And all the people that you made in your image, see them fighting
    In the street ’cause they can’t make opinions meet about God,
    I can’t believe in you

    Did you make disease, and the diamond blue? Did you make
    Mankind after we made you? And the devil too!

    , don’t know if you noticed, but… your name is on
    A lot of quotes in this book, and us crazy humans wrote it, you
    Should take a look, and all the people that you made in your
    Image still believing that junk is true. Well I know it ain’t, and
    So do you, dear God, I can’t believe in I don’t believe in

    I won’t believe in heaven and hell. No saints, no sinners, no
    Devil as well. No pearly gates, no thorny crown. You’re always
    Letting us humans down. The wars you bring, the babes you
    Drown. Those lost at sea and never found, and it’s the same the
    Whole world ’round. The hurt I see helps to compound that
    Father, Son and Holy Ghost is just somebody’s unholy hoax,
    And if you’re up there you’d perceive that my heart’s here upon
    My sleeve. If there’s one thing I don’t believe in

    It’s you….

  222. Spaghetti Lee said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:17

    How can you factually prove love?

    I thought Contact was a pretty good movie as well.

  223. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:17

    librarian hordes

    Oh yeah! Excuse me, I need a moment.

    “Librarian whores” is hotter.

  224. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:17

    Must I note again, I am not engaging in arguments about the existence or otherwise of gods. I will point out however that while it seems to be fine for Christians to ridicule Xenuists, for Jews to deny the divinity of Jesus, etc when someone says “I think you’re ALL wrong” people get riled rankled and defensive. Criminy.

  225. N__B said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:19

    How can you factually prove love?

    It’s easy: if you haven’t scored a point, you’re at love.

  226. Matt T. said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:19

    I am pretty sure there is a word for people who think there is a God and oppose it.

    Misotheism.

    How can you factually prove love?

    You’ve never met my grandmother.

    Remember atheists: just shut the fuck up. Nobody wants to hear what you have to say. By disagreeing with non-atheists, you’re as bad as Fred Phelps and Richard Dawkins is worse than Torquemada.

  227. Nymstradamus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:19

    I am pretty sure there is a word for people who think there is a God and oppose it

    Misotheists:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misotheism

    *proceeds to sidestep away from the latest religious debate du jour at S, N!*

  228. N__B said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:20

    when someone says “I think you’re ALL wrong” people get riled rankled and defensive.

    That’s why I usually just point and laugh.

  229. Spaghetti Lee said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:21

    when someone says “I think you’re ALL wrong” people get riled rankled and defensive. Criminy.

    Who exactly is being rankled and defensive? Actor? Noen? Myself?

  230. Chris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:22

    There’s no way they’d have the resources to beat the North – or in this case, the North and the East and West coasts. We’re financially supporting these red-state jackholes as it is.

    Exactly!

    Everyone always tells me, “oh, the blue states would lose” – then goes on to mention how many guns there are in the red states and how much the military is on their side.

    Guess what; that is, exactly, the way the North and South were before the Civil War. The South got the military geniuses and the Daniel Boone types who could hit a squirrel in the left nut from five miles away; the North got factories. Guess who came out on top.

    Furthermore, as in the Civil War, nobody else in the world would support the red states. And as much as they like to pretend otherwise, that matters.

    And furthermore, the “one Southerner can lick ten Yankees” meme is as much a crock of shit now as it was at Little Round Top. Growing up in inner city gangland vs. shooting deer and beating your wife; I have a theory who’s tougher, in real life.

  231. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:23

    Actor? Noen? Myself?

    Yes yes and yes.

  232. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:23

    I thought Contact was a pretty good movie as well.

    The question predates the movie, at least it did in my life.

    Faith is about love, and love is about faith. It’s a little hard to get around that. You can’t know love without faith of some kind.

    My faith tells me that God loves me. I know this to be factual because of some of the crazy shit I’ve survived in my life. Objectively, you could probably discount it as coincidence, dumb luck, subconscious warnings and other things.

    I choose not to, because in my heart I believe that there’s a reason behind why I’ve lived as long as I have, despite some of the stupid things I’ve done and also despite some rather strange incidents and accidents.

    I can’t prove it, just like I can’t prove that someone else loves me.

    Or, for that matter, that I love someone else. How? I buy them a nice gift? There’s no such thing objectively as altruism. Maimonides pretty much proved that. I remember their feelings and take them into account? Again, there’s a self-interest involved.

    Love is something you have to either believe or not. It does not stand up to scrutiny. And I find it hard to believe that, in a universe where you don’t have to prove love exists, you have to prove God does.

  233. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:24

    Yes yes and yes.

    You’re just pissed because I beat you on the Muhammad thing.

  234. N__B said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:24

    one Southerner can lick ten Yankees

    But you have to pay him first.

  235. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:24

    Most of these people are also “normal” people. They have families, jobs, houses, etc etc etc…they’ve come into contact with people who disagree with them, at least occasionally, and all that has done is, as I said, caused them to dig in deeper AND develop a persecution complex.

    It’s also made for some seriously awkward holiday dinners.

  236. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:25

    How can you factually prove love?

    You’ve never met my grandmother.

    You never know, I could be your grandfather.

  237. Chris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:26

    We aren’t going to have another religion fight, are we?

    I hate those kinds of fights. I’m always in the middle.

    *high five

  238. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:26

    You’re just pissed because I beat you on the Muhammad thing.

    Awesome troll! I’ll bite: what were you right about?

  239. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:27

    Remember atheists: just shut the fuck up. Nobody wants to hear what you have to say. By disagreeing with non-atheists, you’re as bad as Fred Phelps and Richard Dawkins is worse than Torquemada.

    Persecution complex much?

    I know that atheists are generally disliked in this country, and, as a non-believer, I’ve experienced some anger and self-righteousness, but I don’t see anyone here comparing atheists to Fred Phelps.

  240. Spaghetti Lee said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:27

    Furthermore, as in the Civil War, nobody else in the world would support the red states. And as much as they like to pretend otherwise, that matters.

    I dunno, Given that the North would indeed be favored, I think there’s a lot of countries out there who would love to see an America split in half, one half governed by buffoons. Create a bit of a power vacuum and all that. I’ve always thought that a hypothetical second Civil War would be a lose-lose situation all around.

  241. Matt T. said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:27

    You never know, I could be your grandfather.

    My grandfather was a rotten, whiskey-soaked, wife-beating son of a bitch. I suppose it is possible.

  242. Dain Brammaged said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:28

    If only Barbara Tuchman had played guitar…

  243. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:29

    “How can you factually prove love?”

    silly question. Now, one can ask people, scan their brains and so on – love is something that we all agree exists and for which there is empirical evidence that people experience the state of love. But that’s not why it’s a silly question. It’s a silly question because we don’t “prove love” but only acknowledge the evidence.

    When god heals an amputee, or I see something that could have no possible explanation other than god – parting the red sea would do – or any documented actual unquestionable miracle I will happily question my position. Similarly, when I see a UFO or meet a ghost or the Raelians arrive or whatever. In modern terms, “pics or it didn’t happen.”

  244. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:29

    one Southerner can lick ten Yankees

    I think “March to the Sea 2: Apocalyptic Boogaloo” would prove this thesis wrong pretty quickly.

    I can see it in my mind’s eye- Urk Urksome weeping at night, illuminated by the flames rising from the torched ruins of a Piggly Wiggly.

  245. Matt T. said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:30

    T&U,
    Joke. Just getting the inevitable nonsense out of the way, someone always compares “fundamentalist” atheists to fundamentalist theists. Personally, I don’t give a damn what anyone believes. And experience has taught me no one really, really cares what I believe, so long as I don’t actively challenge his/her belief system. So I don’t. Marijuana was good for coming to that conclusion.

  246. Chris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:31

    Must I note again, I am not engaging in arguments about the existence or otherwise of gods. I will point out however that while it seems to be fine for Christians to ridicule Xenuists, for Jews to deny the divinity of Jesus, etc when someone says “I think you’re ALL wrong” people get riled rankled and defensive. Criminy.

    Speaking for myself, I don’t do any of it, not now that I’m basically agnostic/uncommitted/whatever, and not when I was Catholic either. I don’t consider it any more or less “fine” for an atheist or a Jew or a Christian to disagree with another theology or lack of theology, depending on how it’s done… But that’s all just me.

  247. Whale Chowder said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:33

    And I find it hard to believe that, in a universe where you don’t have to prove love exists, you have to prove God does.

    Here’s the thing, though. If someone wanted to create a body of laws based on “love”? I’d prolly be all right with that. But that’s not what’s going on. People are trying to make everybody live according to their ideas of what God is and wants. That’s a problem. It’d be a problem even if everybody agreed on those ideas; it’s a thousand times worse when group X wants to impose their ideas of “God’s law” and group Y insists they have the inside track on what constitutes “Gawd’s law.”

    How the fuck do you reconcile that? Moreover, if you’re* going to make me live according to your version of Gawd’s law, you better be prepared to prove to me that you have the right answer.

    * the general “you” not any specific person conversing here

  248. tigris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:33

    one Southerner can lick ten Yankees

    Nuh uh, cuz he can’t get ‘em stump broke.

    I can see it in my mind’s eye- Urk Urksome weeping at night, illuminated by the flames rising from the torched ruins of a Piggly Wiggly.

    NOT THE PIG!

  249. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:34

    My grandfather was a rotten, whiskey-soaked, wife-beating son of a bitch.

    Vodka, actually.

  250. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:35

    It’s a silly question because we don’t “prove love” but only acknowledge the evidence.

    Ergo, there is a God. Thank you. There’s plenty of evidence of God’s existence, all around you, Poopy. I respect that you choose not to understand it, and that you respect my desire to understand it.

  251. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:35

    Misotheism.

    I thought this was the worship of soybean paste.

  252. tigris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:36

    Misotheism.

    I thought this was the worship of soybean paste.

    Umami jokes.

  253. Chris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:36

    I dunno, Given that the North would indeed be favored, I think there’s a lot of countries out there who would love to see an America split in half, one half governed by buffoons. Create a bit of a power vacuum and all that. I’ve always thought that a hypothetical second Civil War would be a lose-lose situation all around.

    That was true the first time around too, especially on the part of the French and the British.

    There were quite a few factors that ultimately prevented them from intervening on the side of the South. At least one of them, public opinion, would still favor the Yankees today, I think.

    (Especially since if we were to have a Civil War, it wouldn’t be secessionist but winner-take-all – the red staters wouldn’t be trying to separate, they’d be wanting to “take their country back.” I can’t think of too many countries that would have an interest in seeing an energized conservative America sweep into power yet again).

  254. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:36

    When god heals an amputee

    So when genetic research allows for this, you’ll become a Theist? Probably not, because you’ll say it was science that invented the process.

    Had it occured to you that God works through the mechanisms that already exist on earth?

  255. N__B said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:37

    I respect that you choose not to understand it, and that you respect my desire to understand it.

    And that’s trolling. Evidence that changes according to the beliefs of the person who is looking at at it is not evidence. And you know that.

  256. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:37

    I will point out however that while it seems to be fine for Christians to ridicule Xenuists, for Jews to deny the divinity of Jesus, etc when someone says “I think you’re ALL wrong” people get riled rankled and defensive.

    In a world where “Christ-killer” is still capable of being used non-ironically, you’re not going to hog all the “woe, I’m so persecuted for my nonbelief” thing to yourself anytime soon.

  257. gocart mozart said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:38

    “one Southerner can lick ten Yankees”

    veiled teabagging reference?

  258. Matt T. said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:38

    There’s plenty of evidence of God’s existence, all around you, Poopy.

    Which God, though? Personally, I like the idea of giant, armored, Kirby-esque space gods who come down and occasionally screw with humanity.

  259. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:38

    People are trying to make everybody live according to their ideas of what God is and wants.

    Do we hold the entire religion of Islam responsible for the acts of a few dozen?

    Likewise, why hold all of Christianity, most of whom could give a rat’s ass whether you believe or not, up for the acts of a small minority?

    I agree, those folks make a person of faith like myself blanch in abject revulsion.

  260. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:39

    Which God, though?

    Does it matter?

  261. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:39

    Umami jokes.

    Umami’s so ugly, boomerangs don’t.

  262. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:39

    Evidence that changes according to the beliefs of the person who is looking at at it is not evidence.

    Rashomon

  263. Sirius Lunacy said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:41

    one Southerner can lick ten Yankees

    But you have to pay him first.

    How about:

    One southerner can lick ten Yankees for the price of five.

  264. N__B said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:42

    Evidence that changes according to the beliefs of the person who is looking at at it is not evidence.

    Rashomon

    That’s a meaningless answer. A young-earth creationist is not describing a different view of the world than a scientist, he’s describing a different world that cannot possibly be compatible with the scientist’s. The characters in Rashomon have different views of an actual set of events.

  265. Matt T. said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:43

    Does it matter?

    It might. I think it’d probably suck if, for example, Conan was right. Crom strikes me as a real bastard. Dionysus, however, seems like a god I could deal with.

  266. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:44

    Which God, though? Personally, I like the idea of giant, armored, Kirby-esque space gods who come down and occasionally screw with humanity.

    Ironically, the one true god is Darkseid.

  267. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:45

    Dionysus, however, seems like a god I could deal with.

    Sure, until Truculent and vacuum get so drunk off their tits they mistake you for a boar and tear you apart with their bare hands.

  268. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:45

    T&U – no one here maybe but google something like “atheism is worse than” to get a sense of what it’s like to be an “out” atheist. Then check out how many people go on about the evils wrought by notorious atheists Hitler and Stalin. Except, Hitler was in no way atheist (just actually read mein kampf or examine some his many speeches where he proclaimed how he was fulfilling the Christian duty). And Stalin, not so much either. Ratzo says we’re satanists. Atheists are demonized to an extent that can only be likened to the Muslims in America today.

  269. N__B said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:46

    Sure, until Truculent and vacuum get so drunk off their tits they mistake you for a boar and tear you apart with their bare hands.

    Is the webcam set up?

  270. vacuumslayer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:46

    I always thought–outside of Greek mythology–gods were so boring. Give me fucking faeries any day. Them I might worship. (but probably not)

  271. N__B said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:47

    Give me fucking faeries

    Celibate faeries are boring, too.

  272. Matt T. said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:48

    Ironically, the one true god is Darkseid.

    See, that’d suck. Did you read “Final Crisis”? Did you understand it? All I got from it was that life under Darkseid would not be fun. Gotta admit, atheists win that one.

  273. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:48

    google something like “atheism is worse than”

    Didn’t we just go through what a shit method of analysis this is?

  274. Matt T. said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:49

    I always thought–outside of Greek mythology–gods were so boring.

    Personally, I prefer Norse mythology. Thor created the ocean’s tides during a drinking contest. And Freya, their goddess of fertility, was basically the goddess of hot monkey viking sex. Now, there’s a bunch of gods who knew how to party.

  275. gocart mozart said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:49

    “Contact was a good movie”

    It had the core of a great movie but the ending was a copout and it needed at least another rewrite.

    “Misotheism.
    I thought this was the worship of soybean paste.”
    Win!

    I have always been partial the relegion of John Frumism. I am thinking of converting.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Frum

    Atheism is the most descriminated against beleif system in America and most of the world. No politician could get elected as an atheist or agnostic. I am sure there have been many but they all have had to pretend they were ‘Christians’.

    [One has(the first in history of congress) and he is Stark from California]
    http://www.democrats.com/node/12266

  276. vacuumslayer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:50

    “Sure, until Truculent and vacuum get so drunk off their tits they mistake you for a boar and tear you apart with their bare hands.”

    Ya know, when I first read this I thought it said something about me and T&U rubbing our tits together, which I found more hilarious than erotic

  277. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:50

    Joke. Just getting the inevitable nonsense out of the way, someone always compares “fundamentalist” atheists to fundamentalist theists.

    Gotcha.

  278. Chris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:50

    In other words, I can be counted on to do whatever I can to keep the Republicans out of power, but don’t call me a Democratic Party Member.

    Me, neither. Call me a liberal, a leftist, even a (ugh) progressive, but don’t call me a Democrat, because I’m not. I’ll vote for those motherfuckers over Republicans any day because they represent my interests more than Republicans do (and don’t actively try to tear them down), but I haven’t called myself a Democrat in quite some time.

    Oddly enough, I’m the other way around. I’m not even sure I qualify as a pure leftist, though I’ll go for “liberal” (and share your “ugghhh” on “progressive.”)

    As far as economics (the central point of our era) go, my ideology is basically the one of the post-WW2 compromise in which, all over the West, parties of the right agreed to support the welfare state while parties of the left agreed to support the free market. It was a good formula, gave us the thirty most prosperous years anyone can remember ever, was a hell of a lot more efficient than either total statism (the Eastern Bloc) or total libertarianism (the Gilded Age).

    That formula broke down in America when the right stopped supporting the welfare state, e.g. about thirty years ago, and the left got dragged along in their direction.

  279. vacuumslayer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:52

    “Give me fucking faeries

    Celibate faeries are boring, too.”

    THAT made me laugh out loud.

  280. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:52

    A young-earth creationist is not describing a different view of the world than a scientist, he’s describing a different world that cannot possibly be compatible with the scientist’s.

    So? I’m not defending creationism, but if that’s what he chooses to believe and he doesn’t mind being at odds with the world as we know it to be, or even at odds with all the facts accumulated thereon, who am I to tell him he’s wrong? Reasonable people will look at the evidence and draw their own conclusions.

    Look, N__B, the great secret of life is, there are no immutable laws, no right and no wrong, except what we agree upon. If I choose to see things differently than you, to interpret evidence differently, that’s my right, ain’t it?

    Or else how does change occur?

    Even now, in this day and age of enormous change, we’re finding out that things we accepted as fact just a few years ago are not factual at all, just interpretations of the best available evidence that we had.

  281. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:52

    St. Trotsky – who is hogging? There is plenty of hatred to go around, no need to hog it.

  282. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:55

    Now, there’s a bunch of gods who knew how to party.

    Sure. Of course, they mostly partied because Norse mythology played out like the suicidal depression to St. John’s manic-depressive schizophrenia. When even the gods know they’re fucking fucked at the end of the day, you’d probably see a lot more casual sex and binge-drinking amongst the parishioners.

  283. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:55

    Then check out how many people go on about the evils wrought by notorious atheists Hitler and Stalin.

    You forgot Pol Pot.

    I’ve actually been forced to use that argument against someone (who is actually more stridently antitheist than you) who claimed that religion has been responsible for more deaths in history than atheists, and that people like me ought to be held accountable.

    I don’t think he read history much. He’s a physicist

  284. Whale Chowder said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:55

    Likewise, why hold all of Christianity, most of whom could give a rat’s ass whether you believe or not, up for the acts of a small minority?

    Three words: Holy Roman Empire

  285. jimmiraybob said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:57

    The South got the military geniuses and the Daniel Boone types who could hit a squirrel in the left nut from five miles away;…

    Are you insinuating that Squirrel Nation can’t take on Tea Bag Nation?

  286. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:57

    “Didn’t we just go through what a shit method of analysis this is?”

    Yes but I’m not using it to prove anything in and of itself. As a way to find public statements recorded elsewhere on the web or in the mdia it is a valuable tool.

  287. N__B said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:57

    Even now, in this day and age of enormous change, we’re finding out that things we accepted as fact just a few years ago are not factual at all, just interpretations of the best available evidence that we had.

    Sure, until you use this argument to defend religion, and then we’re talking about stuff that’s never going to be proven. So you want to pretend there’s evidence by saying “Rashomon.”

    Believe whatever you want. No one is stopping you. But learn the difference between your beliefs and evidence unless you want to come across as an idiot. To paraphrase something said in the last elections, you have the right to your own beliefs but not your own facts. Saying “There’s plenty of evidence of God’s existence, all around you, Poopy. I respect that you choose not to understand it” is saying you understand the facts and Peej doesn’t, which is horseshit. You have your beliefs, period.

  288. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:59

    Did you read “Final Crisis”? Did you understand it?

    Man, I’ll be honest. I mostly just read Marvel and Vertigo comics. My actual knowledge of Darkseid is mostly limited to that animated show where I think he’s played by the Kurgan and his face is made of concrete.

  289. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:59

    I’m slow today, so pls forgive.

    T&U – no one here maybe but google something like “atheism is worse than” to get a sense of what it’s like to be an “out” atheist.

    I’m aware, and it sucks and it’s ridiculous. But it doesn’t seem worth it to me to go on the defensive automatically. I mean, sure, you can assume a large portion of people are going to be dicks about it, but not every believer is going to dismiss you as evil.

    BUT, as far as my identity is concerned, being a non-believer (I can’t claim complete “atheist” status, at least not in this point in my life) is pretty low on the list. And I’d be inclined to be defensive about, for example, being a feminist if I walked into a room full of non-feminists, so maybe I should just STFU.

  290. Interrobang said,

    September 8, 2010 at 22:59

    Actor, there is objectively such a thing as altruism. The literature goes back at least to 1977. I’d argue also that you can objectively demonstrate love these days in much the same way as you can demonstrate pretty much any other feeling — look at what the brain’s doing in an fMRI and look at hormone levels (jeez, did you miss all that wingnut misinterpretation of oxytocin, or something) and behaviour. Just because altruism or love or whatever are names we have for emergent states of being that arise out of complex biochemical interactions instead of Platonic ideals floating around there in the ether or something doesn’t make them somehow less real; I’d argue that finding actual things that change in people’s bodies in relation to their feelings makes them more real. But of course I chucked mind-body dualism years ago.

  291. Sirius Lunacy said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:00

    I will point out however that while it seems to be fine for Christians to ridicule Xenuists, for Jews to deny the divinity of Jesus, etc when someone says “I think you’re ALL wrong” people get riled rankled and defensive.

    If you believe in a god then there’s probably a better chance that you could be converted than if you believe in no god. I also feel that most people who say they believe in a god really don’t when it comes down to the nitty gritty. If they truly believed they would not risk the fate of their eternal soul so readily.

  292. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:01

    Sure, until you use this argument to defend religion, and then we’re talking about stuff that’s never going to be proven. So you want to pretend there’s evidence by saying “Rashomon.”

    Let me quote myself:

    My faith tells me that God loves me. I know this to be factual because of some of the crazy shit I’ve survived in my life. Objectively, you could probably discount it as coincidence, dumb luck, subconscious warnings and other things. I choose not to, because in my heart I believe that there’s a reason behind why I’ve lived as long as I have, despite some of the stupid things I’ve done and also despite some rather strange incidents and accidents.

    You see, belief systems do determine the evaluation of the evidence.

    Saying “There’s plenty of evidence of God’s existence, all around you, Poopy. I respect that you choose not to understand it” is saying you understand the facts and Peej doesn’t

    In the context of theism, he does not. He chooses to view the world differently, and in his world view, I do not understand how he views the evidence I see. I think I’ve been very clear about that. What’s your problem with that?

  293. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:02

    You forgot Pol Pot.

    Well, once again, we struggle with what divinity entails. Seems pretty obvious to me that Marx, Stalin, et cetera were ascribed divine wisdom/powers and worshipped.

    It’s unquestioning belief that’s the problem. In North Korea right now you have a whole society of rabid believers willing to starve themselves for various Kims, who are clearly venerated as gods.

    The details of Christianity aren’t so much the problem to me – the NT is mostly pretty reasonable for its time – but that there are people who’ll hang on to the beliefs so firmly they’ll kill for them. The same is obviously true for lots of religions/ideologies.

  294. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:03

    As far as economics (the central point of our era) go, my ideology is basically the one of the post-WW2 compromise in which, all over the West, parties of the right agreed to support the welfare state while parties of the left agreed to support the free market. It was a good formula, gave us the thirty most prosperous years anyone can remember ever, was a hell of a lot more efficient than either total statism (the Eastern Bloc) or total libertarianism (the Gilded Age).

    Sure, and honestly, I’m not much of a “leftist,” either, though I do think my economic views are still *slightly* to the left of New Deal era economics.

    And, yes, if “Democrat” still meant that, then I would identify myself as a Democrat. But it doesn’t anymore, and I’m rather loathe to associate myself with most modern Democratic politicians ideologically, even if I do vote for them.

  295. N__B said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:05

    What’s your problem with that?

    Your false claim that your beliefs are evidence. Have I not made that clear? If you see something and think it’s evidence, and Peej and I see it and think it’s nothing, and a Hindu sees it and thinks it’s negative evidence then it’s not evidence. It’s part of your belief system. And, FWIW, atheists get this crap thrown at us all the fucking time. The operative words in “I do not understand how he views the evidence I see” are “I see.”

  296. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:06

    I always thought–outside of Greek mythology–gods were so boring. Give me fucking faeries any day.

    How about a twofer?

    Personally, I prefer Norse mythology. Thor created the ocean’s tides during a drinking contest. And Freya, their goddess of fertility, was basically the goddess of hot monkey viking sex. Now, there’s a bunch of gods who knew how to party.

    It’s all fun and games until some decides to tie his balls to a goat… then it becomes a sport.

  297. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:07

    If they truly believed they would not risk the fate of their eternal soul so readily.

    Risk it against what, precisely? We don’t all believe Dante Alighieri’s Inferno was an accurate YOU ARE HERE to the afterlife, y’know.

  298. Sirius Lunacy said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:07

    I also suspect that a majority of the violence done in the name of religion is not about the conviction that we’re right, but about the fear that they might be right.

  299. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:07

    Actor, there is objectively such a thing as altruism.

    The article you cite mentions that it could be attributable to “kin behavior,” or a way to ensure survival of the species. Altruism would be doing good only for the sake of doing good for someone else, with no benefit to yourself or kin.

    I’d argue also that you can objectively demonstrate love these days in much the same way as you can demonstrate pretty much any other feeling — look at what the brain’s doing in an fMRI and look at hormone levels

    So by extension we’d prove the existence of God by our feelings as demonstrated on an fMRI? OK, I can run with that! God exists because I feel him exist.

    You might want to rethink that. The study done at Stony Brook was an interesting one, but you’ll note it was done with “newly, madly in love” post-teens. I’m not sure that’s the kind of love that lasts.

  300. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:08

    Your false claim that your beliefs are evidence.

    I never said that. I said I base my beliefs on the evidence that I’ve seen. You and Peej and the Hindu choose to interpret that evidence differently. Have I not made that clear?

  301. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:09

    The same is obviously true for lots of religions/ideologies.

    Ayup. Authoritarian assholes are authoritarian assholes, no matter what their beliefs are.

  302. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:10

    I also suspect that a majority of the violence done in the name of religion is not about the conviction that we’re right, but about the fear that they might be right.

    I suspect the majority of the violence done in the name of anything is because humanity is a bunch of petty, violent-ass motherfuckers who’ll get a hair up their ass about just about anything and be willing to kill some other motherfuckers over it.

  303. vacuumslayer said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:10

    “I always thought–outside of Greek mythology–gods were so boring. Give me fucking faeries any day.

    How about a twofer?”

    Ooooooh! Well-played, Suh.

  304. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:10

    Seems pretty obvious to me that Marx, Stalin, et cetera were ascribed divine wisdom/powers and worshipped.

    Yea, but see, now you’re just making shit up, and claiming full religious status to people who had it thrust upon them, were real religions did not form about them.

    Shame on you, Subby. You’re better than that, cheating by increments.

  305. Sirius Lunacy said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:11

    Risk it against what, precisely? We don’t all believe Dante Alighieri’s Inferno was an accurate YOU ARE HERE to the afterlife, y’know.

    Perhaps not, but most belief systems and certianly the Christian belief system are based on the idea of some sort of eternal reward / punishment system.

  306. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:11

    “So? I’m not defending creationism, but if that’s what he chooses to believe and he doesn’t mind being at odds with the world as we know it to be, or even at odds with all the facts accumulated thereon, who am I to tell him he’s wrong? Reasonable people will look at the evidence and draw their own conclusions.”

    creationists aren’t reasonable people. In any sense of the word. Belief in young earth nonsense is contrary to an enormous body of facts and physical laws. While the only “evidence” to support YET is hearsay. Namely the long propagated myths of a bronze age culture. But we are not allowed to disagree, and may not teach evolution in the science classroom. If they have their way, that is.

    THAT is precisely why I am anti-theist. Your “all beliefs must be respected” is beyond stupid. Xenu? Raelians? Mormons? Tom Tancredo? No. Some things are obviously horseshit and deserve not respect but ridicule. Theism is harmful to society.

    Btw, I deliberatly left out Pol Pot because the case of his possible atheism is not so clear. In any case, the point is that those atrocities did not occur _because_ so and so was atheist.

  307. John Cole said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:12

    The insanity of the tea baggers lets supremely reasonable beacons of moderate and realistic reasonableitudicity such as myself continue to claim to be “fairly liberal but realistic.”

    Although, in the interest of being open minded and fair, I did read a couple of brochures some people who could advance my career gave me about the tea party and some of the ideas do look intriguing. I’ll probably keep an open reasonable serious mind until I can see which way the wind is blowing on this one….I may have been wrong about that time I said I’d been wrong all along about that other thing but I don’t have time to worry about that right now because I have to bake some zucchini bread for my dogs.

  308. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:13

    If they truly believed they would not risk the fate of their eternal soul so readily.

    I think the big mistake Christianity made was allowing for the deathbed repentance.

  309. N__B said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:13

    You and Peej and the Hindu choose to interpret that evidence differently. Have I not made that clear?

    You’re changing your tune. You said “I respect that you choose not to understand it, and that you respect my desire to understand it.” For anyone capable of reading English, that says that you understand “the evidence” and he does not. Now you want to claim that it’s simply different interpretation. So either you accidentally wrote something insulting to atheists because you didn’t know what you were saying or you’re now trying to walk it back without admitting what you said was horseshit.

    I’m done. Be sure to claim victory and then continue contemplating how you understand more than us benighted atheists.

  310. gocart mozart said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:15

    “In other words, I can be counted on to do whatever I can to keep the Republicans out of power, but don’t call me a Democratic Party Member.”

    See, I was the opposite. I started out as an independant when I first registered to vote at 18 because of an existential veiw that I was a free thinker who wouldn’t be tied down to any ideology. I voted for Weicker in ’88 against Lieberman (you can’t spell Lieberman without lie) because Lowell was the more liberal candidate. Buckley who hated Weicker was paying for pro-Lieberman radio ads that election. After realizing that I vote Dem 99% of the time and that I wanted to vote in Dem primaries I switched to a registered Democratic voter. Metaphysical purity don’t mean shit.

  311. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:16

    creationists aren’t reasonable people. In any sense of the word. Belief in young earth nonsense is contrary to an enormous body of facts and physical laws.

    Who are we to deny him his beliefs, tho, Poopy? It gets him thru the day.

    I agree with you that as a society, we have to evaluate those beliefs and discard those that are unproductive or even destructive to society as a whole, and not teach them.

    Individually? It got him to this point in time at this place. How he got here is irrelevant to me. It worked, that’s all that should matter to him.

  312. actor212 said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:16

    You said “I respect that you choose not to understand it, and that you respect my desire to understand it.” For anyone capable of reading English, that says that you understand “the evidence” and he does not.

    Again, in the context of theism, he does not.

    Have I not made THAT clear?

  313. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:17

    Yea, but see, now you’re just making shit up

    No, I’m not making shit up. You’re just upset that nobody’ll buy your arguments, which on religion are poor-to-awful.

    Pushback on religion is, in my fantasy world (WHICH I TOTALLY BELIEVE IN!), pushback on blind belief in general, not just at the notion of imaginary beings (who lead to troublesome results often enough).

  314. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:17

    In the context of theism, he does not. He chooses to view the world differently, and in his world view, I do not understand how he views the evidence I see. I think I’ve been very clear about that. What’s your problem with that?

    Well, in his worldview, beliefs are based on facts and evidence, and people who ignore those facts and evidence and choose to believe what they want are, well, stupid. So, when you imply that you have evidence that Peej doesn’t understand, you’re implying that he’s somehow stunted.

  315. gocart mozart said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:17

    Today, I would vote for a jar of mayonaise with a (D) after its name over any Republican mainly because elected condiments will cause less damage to our society.

  316. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:19

    Today, I would vote for a jar of mayonaise with a (D) after its name over any Republican mainly because elected condiments will cause less damage to our society.

    What about Miracle Whip? Cause that shit is nasty.

  317. gocart mozart said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:22

    ” I have to bake some zucchini bread for my dogs.”

    You spoil your dogs John or is this a punishment because I HATE zucchini! What is your veiw on God vs Dog?

  318. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:22

    Perhaps not, but most belief systems and certainly the Christian belief system are based on the idea of some sort of eternal reward / punishment system.

    Of course, from my understanding, most of the Eastern religions that could be considered comparable only register as “eternal” in that your soul gets recycled over and over again depending on how well you do on each go-around, Islam basically gives you one shot and then everyone gets to wait around moldering in the grave until the Day of Judgment arrives, (at which point, fuck, who cares what happens afterward), and the Jewish belief systems are so focused on the current here-and-now that we can’t even get straight answers most of the time on what our afterlife is supposed to look like, let alone what happens if we succeed or fail on being good at the religion.

    So again, for those of us not working on some Italian fanfic writer’s conception of the world beyond, where’s our risk really enter into it?

  319. gocart mozart said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:24

    Miracle Whip is a blue dog Democrat condiment. It pretends to be mayonaise but its not really.

  320. guitarist manqué said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:25

    Again, in the context of theism, he does not.

    Have I not made THAT clear?

    Re: evidence. Ur doing it wrong.

  321. pauly said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:28

    ‘The basis of optimism is sheer terror’

  322. gocart mozart said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:29

    Also, I would still hold my nose and vote for the Miracle Whip. I just wouldn’t eat any of its sandwiches.

  323. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:29

    So again, for those of us not working on some Italian fanfic writer’s conception of the world beyond, where’s our risk really enter into it?

    What are you trading?

  324. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:29

    I’d also point out that on a more general level, most religions seem to advocate a “try not to be a cockend” before they get into carrot/stick mechanics to try to get you towards that “not a cockend” ideal.

  325. Sirius Lunacy said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:31

    So again, for those of us not working on some Italian fanfic writer’s conception of the world beyond, where’s our risk really enter into it?

    So if there’s no risk and there’s no reward why pay attention to anything god says?

  326. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:32

    What are you trading?

    Honestly, as Reform, not a whole lot. Some minor cultural guilt if I eat a bologna sandwich and putting on headwear every once in a while on holidays.

  327. gocart mozart said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:33

    Miracle Whip is a blue dog condiment. It pretends to be mayonaise but its not really.

    [Sadly No! Balloon Juice 3 min. edit function. Can this be implemented?]

  328. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:34

    So if there’s no risk and there’s no reward why pay attention to anything god says?

    It keeps me occupied and it’s more interesting than stamp collection.

  329. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:34

    gocart, it was still funny, I promise.

  330. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:38

    I’d also point out that on a more general level, most religions seem to advocate a “try not to be a cockend” before they get into carrot/stick mechanics to try to get you towards that “not a cockend” ideal.

    I think the problem is that the whole “try not to be a cockend” thing is only applied to members of the in-group. To all others, it’s smitings and fightings.

  331. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:41

    well, actor pretty much said that atheists can’t know love….

  332. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:41

    I think the problem is that the whole “try not to be a cockend” thing is only applied to members of the in-group. To all others, it’s smitings and fightings.

    True, but that’s a problem with the monkeysphere before it’s something limited solely to religious factions.

    If you’re capable of expanding the “no to cockend” thing to a universal level, not only would you be in keeping with the spirit of the religious advocacy, you’d also be much less of a cockend overall.

  333. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:45

    Today, I would vote for a jar of mayonaise with a (D) after its name over any Republican mainly because elected condiments will cause less damage to our society.

    I wouldn’t be so sure:

    http://blog.3bulls.net/?p=1538

  334. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:45

    Honestly, as Reform, not a whole lot. Some minor cultural guilt if I eat a bologna sandwich and putting on headwear every once in a while on holidays.

    So your cost for believing in the afterlife is not much, save the odd giggle from asshole atheists. Not a big deal.

    I’d weigh that hassle against the chance you chose the right religion, but also against the social opportunities: the best thing about religion is getting people together to do stuff. If you have a weakish belief in the afterlife and wanna indulge it, choose the religion with the best parties.

  335. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:46

    then everyone gets to wait around moldering in the grave until the Day of Judgment

    well, not ALL of us….

  336. Hoosier X said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:49

    I had some very bad experiences with “Christians” last week – (Anybody who knows Anderson, Ind., will know exactly what kind of “Christians” I am talking about) – and I didn’t think it possible for me to think less of religious people.

    Actor212′s inexhaustible supply of pathetic sophistry has proven me wrong.

  337. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:49

    Ooooooh! Well-played, Suh.

    I’d recently listened to this outré bit of cultural ephemera (warning, video contains images of 70′s ‘staches).

  338. Whale Chowder said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:49

    choose the religion with the best parties.

    Or, from a more, er, practical standpoint, choose the religion that will get you furthest ahead, whether you measure that by money, power or young, succulent boys.

  339. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:49

    If you have a weakish belief in the afterlife and wanna indulge it, choose the religion with the best parties.

    Well, we do have a holiday where the express point appears to be get so drunk you can’t tell your worst enemy from your best friend and vice versa… so that’s kind of good as party religions go. I suppose. Depends on how much of an asshole your worst enemy is.

  340. imoral minority said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:53

    http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2010/09/like-i-said-something-crazy-is.html

    Like I said something crazy is definitely happening on 9-11 in Alaska.
    I had been given a tip almost a week ago that Joe Miller and Sarah Palin were attending an event in the Curtis Menard Sports Center. However when I called yesterday I was told there was no event planned.

    Really? Well then what in the hell are these people talking about?

    Evil cannot be wished away, it cannot be loved away, it cannot be talked away, it must be destroyed!!!!

    Who We are:

    CPG (Conservative Patriot Group) is a nonpartisan, grass roots independent advocacy organization that is committed to electing conservative candidates, advancing conservative ideas, promoting traditional American values, advocating responsible resource development and supporting a strong military. CPG has members statewide.We welcome your support and interest in our group.

    Listen to CPG live radio talk show every Saturday morning at 9:00 a.m on KBYR, 700 am.

    9/11 REMEMBERANCE RALLY
    “STANDING STRONG FOR AMERICA”
    SEPTEMBER 11: 12Noon-2PM
    MENARD SPORTS CENTER – WASILLA

    Holy shit! Just what in the hell are these lunatics suggesting? Is the “evil” they are talking about destroying the religion of ISLAM?

    Okay well with this part of my tip confirmed let me tell you what else my source told me.

  341. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:57

    Well, we do have a holiday where the express point appears to be get so drunk you can’t tell your worst enemy from your best friend and vice versa… so that’s kind of good as party religions go

    If you don’t want a party religion, don’t be a Protestant. Especially a Baptist.

    I’m a Generic Protestant, and for fuck’s sake, we didn’t even have booze at Thanksgiving!

  342. Chris said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:57

    See, I was the opposite. I started out as an independant when I first registered to vote at 18 because of an existential veiw that I was a free thinker who wouldn’t be tied down to any ideology. I voted for Weicker in ’88 against Lieberman (you can’t spell Lieberman without lie) because Lowell was the more liberal candidate. Buckley who hated Weicker was paying for pro-Lieberman radio ads that election. After realizing that I vote Dem 99% of the time and that I wanted to vote in Dem primaries I switched to a registered Democratic voter. Metaphysical purity don’t mean shit.

    That’s pretty similar to how I came to identify as a D -

    With the additional thing, in my case, that as more and more people are crowded out of the GOP for not being sociopathic enough, Democrats were pretty much the only option of the two that was non-sociopathic enough for me to vote for (not out of ideology, out of basic humanity).

    Take this Koran-burning shyte. As late as two years or three years ago, there was a simple common-sense consensus in both parties that “we are not at war with the entire Muslim world” – Bush and McCain were equally clear about that. Today, people like them have been either crowded out or silenced, so yet another basic American value (religious tolerance) has become a Dems-only value.

    And this process has been going on for forty or fifty years.

  343. Smut Clyde said,

    September 8, 2010 at 23:59

    Ratzo says we’re satanists. Atheists are demonized to an extent that can only be likened to the Muslims in America today.

    Tony Blair, erstwhile PM and professional knobend, reckons that the sky-fairy-believers are caught between “aggressive secular attack from without” and “the threat of extremism from within”. We’re as dangerous as Al Qaeda! Go team!

    Mind you, this is Blair, who will happily say the exact opposite in a week’s time once the cheque has cleared.

  344. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:00

    Well, we do have a holiday where the express point appears to be get so drunk you can’t tell your worst enemy from your best friend and vice versa… so that’s kind of good as party religions go.

    Celebrated every weekend?

  345. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:01

    And this process has been going on for forty or fifty years.

    Scary, right?

    And it’s funny, because I think that if you asked the current “burn the Koran!!!111!!!11″ people five years ago if they thought it was appropriate to burn the Koran, at least half of them would say “no.” But they follow the party line, which is more important to them and more persuasive than their own actual values.

  346. gocart mozart said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:03

    “choose the religion with the best parties.”

    I choose Rastafarianism.

  347. Chris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:03

    And it’s funny, because I think that if you asked the current “burn the Koran!!!111!!!11? people five years ago if they thought it was appropriate to burn the Koran, at least half of them would say “no.” But they follow the party line, which is more important to them and more persuasive than their own actual values.

    Self-lobotomization. Yeah, I’ve noticed. I know conservatives who do that too, some instances of which I’ve mentioned here…

  348. El Cid said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:07

    They are so committed to the principle of freedom of religion that they’re willing to ban religions that one day might oppress other religions. It all makes sense somehow.

    Just like God so loved his creation of humanity that he drowned every single man, woman, child, and land-dwelling animal in the cold, cold, lung-bursting depths, except for one family on a boat, and to prove his love he showed a rainbow after his nearly complete extermination of most life on Earth.

  349. tigris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:07

    Well, we do have a holiday where the express point appears to be get so drunk you can’t tell your worst enemy from your best friend and vice versa… so that’s kind of good as party religions go.

    Celebrated every weekend?

    And with a potluck?

  350. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:08

    Celebrated every weekend?

    No, that’s just for me. Besides, who wants to drink Manshevitz every weekend?

  351. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:09

    nearly complete extermination of most life on Earth.

    The fish didn’t see what the big hubbub was.

  352. tigris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:12

    Besides, who wants to drink Manshevitz every weekend?

    To be converted from atheism I require a higher quality of booze-up.

  353. Smut Clyde said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:13

    how I came to identify as a D -

    I was identified as a D- but that’s the education system for you.

  354. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:14

    Back from doggie park.

    You and Peej and the Hindu choose to interpret that evidence differently. Have I not made that clear?

    No, we disagree on what constitutes ‘”evidence.”

    I agree with you that as a society, we have to evaluate those beliefs and discard those that are unproductive or even destructive to society as a whole, and not teach them.

    Individually? It got him to this point in time at this place. How he got here is irrelevant to me. It worked, that’s all that should matter to him.

    If he’d just STFU about it and not try to force it down my throat* I’d be okay with that. Teaching people to believe in magic – what can possibly go wrong?

    * It’s highly doubtful I would find such a person sexually attractive either.

  355. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:17

    Y’know, according to the Xians 83% of the world is going to hell. Any god that sets that up is a dick, pure and simple. That god should not be worshipped but also given an eternal nad kicking.

  356. noen said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:20

    Big Bad Bald Bastard linked to “The History of the Sidhe” from which I read this:

    “Whenever a host of the Sidhe appears there is a strange sound like the humming of thousands of bees”

    The sound of bees has also been associated with some very strange UFO sightings.

    I prefer to keep my world open and not epistemically closed. We do not know as much as we think we do.

  357. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:22

    Y’know, according to the Xians 83% of the world is going to hell.

    A lot of Christians don’t actually believe that.

    But, I agree, it’s a total dick move.

  358. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:22

    Y’know, according to the Xians 83% of the world is going to hell.

    Well, according to the delicious Yellow Thunder Woman, we all are.

  359. tigris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:22

    The sound of bees has also been associated with some very strange UFO sightings.

    Also with very human, very natural altered states of consciousness.

  360. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:23

    I <3 ,'s!!!!!!

  361. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:24

    And that’s another thing….

    Now that still cameras and video recorders are nearly ubiquitous, why have the number of UFO sightings decreased so dramatically? Cuz, one would expect the exact opposite, woudncha? Fucking UFO’s – how do they work?

  362. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:26

    Now that still cameras and video recorders are nearly ubiquitous, why have the number of UFO sightings decreased so dramatically? Cuz, one would expect the exact opposite, woudncha?

    Orbs are easier to catch.

  363. Smut Clyde said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:26

    The sound of BS has also been associated with some very strange UFO sightings.

    why have the number of UFO sightings decreased so dramatically?
    It is time to apprise you of the existence of Orbs.

  364. vacuumslayer said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:26

    “listened to this outré bit of cultural ephemera (warning, video contains images of 70?s ‘staches).”

    A little disappointed it wasn’t porn, but ya know what? I dug it.

  365. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:27

    Ha! I win AND WITH A LINK. +9 credulity points!

  366. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:29

    With all the fairy talk in here I feel obliged to reveal that I comment at another website under the nym ‘YourFairyGodmother.’ I suppose that makes me not really an atheist because blargle skurph hifnasome QED.

  367. J— said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:31

    Wait a minute, Pupienus Maximus and PeeJ are the same person? At the same time? I may have to turn in my atheist badge.

  368. gocart mozart said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:31

    Sorta OT but since I mentioned Weicker, here is some info on him for those who may not of heard of him.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowell_P._Weicker,_Jr.
    (my words)
    Weicker would have made a great president. One of the last of the liberal Republicans: He was a proud member of the ACLU, hated the Christian right and said so, was one of only two Senators to vote against both the Grenada and Panama wars and the the first Repub to come out in favor of Nixon’s impeachment. My favorite quote which he said about proto-teabaggers is (paraphrase but close) “I have always been a strong defender of the 1st Am. but I never thought it would take the form of 50,000 people calling me a fucking asshole.” said after he signed a state income tax law.

  369. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:32

    Substance McGravitas said,

    Smut Clyde said,

    Oh please – you could at least thank me for teeing that up for you.

  370. J— said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:32

    Bwa ha ha, you and this thread have been orbed.

  371. guitarist manqué said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:33

    Wait a minute, Pupienus Maximus and PeeJ are the same person? At the same time? I may have to turn in my atheist badge.

    Please try to keep up.

  372. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:34

    The sound of bees has also been associated with some very strange UFO sightings.

    I prefer to keep my world open and not epistemically closed. We do not know as much as we think we do.

    Well, the “Good People” were also into abductions and leaving changelings, and even time dilation/distortion effects, much like the one featured in Rip Van Winkle.

  373. Mysticdog said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:35

    I always thought–outside of Greek mythology–gods were so boring. Give me fucking faeries any day. Them I might worship. (but probably not)

    And put some hooters on those Nymphs!

    (sorry, its been a while VS :D )

    And then just to pile on…

    How can you factually prove love?

    Easily. Love is a human emotion. We can see evidence of it in how people behave, how their homone levels change, and in what areas of the brain are active.

    If we are defining your God as an emotion for you, then sure. Can’t deny that at all.

    If we are defining your sense of God as something real that affects all of us, it is no more “evidence” than believing that some must be able to feel your love, or worse “the love between you”.

    Strangely, both beliefs lead people to the same crazy, obsessive and self-righteous behaviors.

    So if you want to see God’s hand in everything around you, that is your emotional response to those things. You have no more right to think we should share your emotional response than I have the right to think you must all love Jessica Alba as much as I do. You don’t. In fact, all of you need to just back the fuck off and give me and Jessica some space. I’m looking at you, Mr. Restraining-Order-Happy-Jessica-Alba’s-Legal-Counsel.

    Men create gods in their own image. There is a power in that, but it is whatever power people give it, and much like love it isn’t always good.

  374. noen said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:35

    “why have the number of UFO sightings decreased so dramatically?”

    The number of sightings is not interesting. What’s interesting are the residue of good sightings that cannot be explained. Like the one at the Chicago airport a while ago.

    It is possible to laugh at idiotic and gullible UFO believers on YouTube and at the same time feel a sense of wonder at some of the stranger reports. In the same way, it is possible to laugh at idiotic believers in general and still have a sense of awe and wonder at the world.

  375. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:36

    Oh please – you could at least thank me for teeing that up for you.

    Thank some ridiculously-named imaginary being? I THINK NOT.

  376. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:37

    Wait a minute, Pupienus Maximus and PeeJ are the same person? At the same time? I may have to turn in my atheist badge.

    Maybe. Whiel PM showed up at the precise moment that PeeJ disappeared there is absolutely no evidence linking the two. Oh wait, I misunderstood what “evidence” means.

    Keep your badge. Wear it proudly. Show it at the Bachanallia for 10% off call liquor.

  377. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:40

    What’s so ridiculous about ‘Smut Clyde?’

  378. vacuumslayer said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:40

    “I always thought–outside of Greek mythology–gods were so boring. Give me fucking faeries any day. Them I might worship. (but probably not)

    And put some hooters on those Nymphs!

    (sorry, its been a while VS :D )”

    Of course now tha I understand the reference, it’s funny.

  379. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:41

    Mysticdog said,
    September 9, 2010 at 0:35

    Thanks for concisely saying what I believe, too, albeit in a pervy manner.

  380. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:45

    Maybe. Whiel PM showed up at the precise moment that PeeJ disappeared there is absolutely no evidence linking the two. Oh wait, I misunderstood what “evidence” means.

    Oh, look. There’s a post about a VS/T&U tryst below it. Were we ever so young?

  381. jim said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:45

    Whoa, sure is a serious buttload of theology all up in this bitch.

    if I’m right, we may see something truly ironic and almost beautiful — a conservative movement that finally decided to take to the streets after decades of grumbling obscenities in the privacy of its walled-off enclaves … and by dint of that long-avoided mingling with fellow citizens discovered that it had more in common with the diverse members of its various cohorts than it had ever imagined.

    Either this means that the Teabag Nation is going to unite in one big happy pogrom … or that they’re going to somehow have a Come To Reality moment. I don’t see either of those things happening.

    These are people who desperately want a Big Daddy figurehead to tell them they’re the greatest thing since sliced bread & to lead them to glory (preferably by nuking Teheran &/or Pyongyang). They won’t generally say so with their bare naked face hanging out but they miss Dubya terribly, just as they do Reagan.

    I think a LOT of their current rage is due to being unable to canonize Commandante Codpiece the same way they did with Teh Gipper. Having to make even the most vague & formal denunciations of Bush must be like a turpentine enema for all those millions of god-fearing dipshits regular folks who spent years calling him the greatest Prezdint since Lincoln. Bush gave them that “USA! USA! USA! We’re #1!” headrush that they’ve long since become addicted to, & Obama just isn’t hitting that vein.

    Caribou Barbie or Vapo-Rub Boy can deliver this buzz briefly but they’re too smart to take a massive pay-cut & run for office, so without a strong leader to call their own, the rubes wind up going back to the same old Purity Purges & infighting.

    If that leader arises, the GOP is dust … & democracy in America might be too.

  382. Chris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:45

    It is possible to laugh at idiotic and gullible UFO believers on YouTube and at the same time feel a sense of wonder at some of the stranger reports. In the same way, it is possible to laugh at idiotic believers in general and still have a sense of awe and wonder at the world.

    Interesting analogy.

    I don’t believe most UFO sightings are true – in fact, I would not at all be surprised if each and every UFO sighting since the beginning of UFO sightings had been a fake/mistake/whatever.

    OTOH, I do believe the existence of extraterrestrial life is very likely – from my unscientific and not-all-that-involved-in-the-debate viewpoint, the argument that the universe is so huge that life is likely to exist elsewhere as well makes sense. (Though I don’t expect aliens to be humans + pointy ears or most of the rest of what we’ve seen in sci-fi).

    You just made me realize that I (tend to) believe in the existence of alien life, while disbelieving just about everyone who claims to have found it. Again, that’s interesting.

  383. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:48

    Some more Tea Party infighting. I look forward to more of shots from this circular firing squad.

    I am now imagining Cool Coach Urban Meyer and Troofus gut-shooting each other, and it’s hilarious.

    “Bookmark this!”
    “Badoodle Boo Bang

  384. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:51

    (Though I don’t expect aliens to be humans + pointy ears or most of the rest of what we’ve seen in sci-fi).

    Chalk that up to low budgets and poor special effects.

  385. Chris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:58

    Chalk that up to low budgets and poor special effects.

    I know, can’t blame the sixties for being the sixties.

    But this unsuspecting millennial discovered Star Trek via the TOS movies that were made in the eighties. When I finally saw the actual series a year or two later, I was shocked by the special effects of the time (in a doubleplusungood way). Call me spoiled.

  386. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:59

    Holy shit.

    I disappear for a day to get some work done and the holy wars start back up.

    h8rs.

  387. noen said,

    September 9, 2010 at 0:59

    “Some more Tea Party infighting.”

    Good gawd doesn’t she look whacked out. Just in time for the first day of school too!

  388. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:00

    aint[sic]

    Priceless.

  389. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:01

    (Though I don’t expect aliens to be humans + pointy ears or most of the rest of what we’ve seen in sci-fi).

    But do you expect them to engage with us in sexy times a la Cap’n kirk / green alien thang? Or such.

  390. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:02

    Good gawd doesn’t she look whacked out.

    Trailer park girl been hittin’ the crystal meth a little too hard lately.

    Everybody run, the neighborhood ho’s got a gun!

  391. Nymstradamus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:02

    Having to make even the most vague & formal denunciations of Bush must be like a turpentine enema for all those millions of god-fearing dipshits regular folks who spent years calling him the greatest Prezdint since Lincoln Davis.

    Fixed. However Alexander Stephens is more their style:

    “(Jefferson’s) ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. … Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner–stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition..”

  392. Smut Clyde said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:03

    the Teabag Nation is going to [...] somehow have a Come To Reality moment.

    It is possible to go through life with Reality slapping one in the face at every turn and shouting “THIS INVALIDATES YOUR ARGUMENT” in one’s ears, and still retain a sense of one’s basic rightness. See under “Dunning and Kruger”.

    I can’t see how one’s delusions are going to be shaken by attending a Rally for Hopeless Stupidity and meeting 80 000* people who share them. After all, this comes after decades of hearing “If you believe something strongly enough then your belief will create a new reality” as a basic premise of the consumerist economy.

    * Actually ten times that number, but the MSM are lying about it.

  393. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:04

    But do you expect them to engage with us in sexy times a la Cap’n kirk / green alien thang? Or such.

    Expect? I demand!

  394. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:05

    Tim Ravndal: “Marriage is between a man and a woman period!

    Eeeewwww.

  395. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:05

    “(Jefferson’s) ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races.

    Is he talking about Tom? Cuz there was no assumption of any kind of equality from our beloved Thomas. Or Jefferson Davis? WTF? I need a drink.

  396. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:07

    It is possible to go through life with Reality slapping one in the face at every turn and shouting “THIS INVALIDATES YOUR ARGUMENT” in one’s ears, and still retain a sense of one’s basic rightness. See under “Dunning and Kruger”.

    “I’VE BEEN VIIIIIIIINDICATED!”

  397. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:09

    It is possible to go through life with Reality slapping one in the face at every turn and shouting “THIS INVALIDATES YOUR ARGUMENT” in one’s ears, and still retain a sense of one’s basic rightness. See under “Dunning and Kruger”.

    When don’t mature beyond the age of about 6, you can cling to any imaginary idea for life. In fact they become quite good at invalidating evidence by imagining other facts and stuff.

    “Show us a birth certificate!”
    “It’s right here, idiot.”
    “That’s a fake! Show us the birth certificate! Not the one the media forged with the help of a Kenyan shaman Sarah Palin Soros Bug Lifewater!”

    See how easy that is?

  398. Chris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:09

    But do you expect them to engage with us in sexy times a la Cap’n kirk / green alien thang? Or such.

    Well, there are always possibilities.

  399. gocart mozart said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:10

    “why have the number of UFO sightings decreased so dramatically?”

    The aliens goal has always been to install a Kenyan islamocommunist in the Whitehouse. Now there job is done.

  400. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:15

    Is he talking about Tom? Cuz there was no assumption of any kind of equality from our beloved Thomas. Or Jefferson Davis? WTF? I need a drink.

    George Jefferson.

  401. Nymstradamus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:15

    Is he talking about Tom? Cuz there was no assumption of any kind of equality from our beloved Thomas. Or Jefferson Davis? WTF? I need a drink.

    You could say the Vice President of the Confederacy resolved the discrepancy between TJ’s words and his deeds, but in a direction opposite of those pesky abolitionists.

    Bet you didn’t see that one coming, loony libs!

  402. Chris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:16

    Love the Alexander Stephens speech – contradicts everything they try to whitewash the Confederacy as.

    Love this part too;

    Thousands of people who begin to understand these truths are not yet completely out of the shell; they do not see them in their length and breadth. We hear much of the civilization and Christianization of the barbarous tribes of Africa. In my judgment, those ends will never be attained, but by first teaching them the lesson taught to Adam, that “in the sweat of his brow he should eat his bread,” and teaching them to work, and feed, and clothe themselves.

    What’s a speech on Southern values without the gratuitous shot at the laziness and shiftlessness of the people picking your cotton while you reap the benefits while doing exactly jack shit.

  403. Gary Ruppert said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:19

    The fact is, with the election of Obama, the American electorate signaled its intention to retreat from greatness; and, to initiate a descent into the financial abyss of Socialism. After pursuing a series of policies that have introduced crippling uncertainty into the process of entrepreneurship and investment, a clueless Obama, our petulant adolescent fraudulently occupying the White House, has taken to the campaign trail to lure the uninformed with the bait of still more taxpayer billions in stimulus. But, what our tawdry circus barker conceals from the willing dupes is the fact that he intends to more than offset any stimulative effect with planned tax increases; and, his intentional imposition of “skyrocketing energy costs” via his pending “Cap and Tax” legislation. If the crippling American debt burden being accumulated by our presidential “buffoon”; and, our associated “decline” as a world superpower is of no consequence to you, consider the abhorrent financial millstone that we are hanging on our children’s economic future. The man has a singular objective, and that being, a massive redistribution of America’s wealth from the producers to the non-producers. In brief: Obama is an anomalous catastrophe that has befallen America; and, must be resoundingly rejected and corralled in November, until we can remove him in 2012.

  404. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:20

    It is possible to go through life with Reality slapping one in the face at every turn and shouting “THIS INVALIDATES YOUR ARGUMENT” in one’s ears, and still retain a sense of one’s basic rightness. See under “Dunning and Kruger”.

    I might quibble about pigeonholing* that under Dunning-Kruger but I won’t. More interestingly, there was a recent study which I certainly won’t be arsed to look up that showed that confrontation with contradictory facts to whatever st00pid belief they hold only strengthens their convictions. IOW, reality slaps in the face make them hate reality even more. Or something.

  405. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:21

    Oops.

    * No. It is not. It never even entered my mind until I thought about how you sick fucks would take it. You really are sick, you know that?

  406. Nymstradamus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:23

    but by first teaching them the lesson taught to Adam, that “in the sweat of his brow he should eat his bread,” and teaching them to work, and feed, and clothe themselves

    No better way of teaching them that than by compelling them to feed and clothe others.

    Spare me the “states’ rights” bullshit.

  407. Nymstradamus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:28

    Obama is an anomalous catastrophe that has befallen America

    Does that mean he’s a catastrophe that falls outside the statistical mean for American catastrophes, Gary?

  408. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:29

    Gary sure likes dem apostrophes.

  409. Smut Clyde said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:29

    What’s a speech on Southern values the need for vast income disparities without the gratuitous shot at the laziness and shiftlessness of the people picking your cotton while you reap the benefits while doing exactly jack shit.

  410. tigris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:34

    But do you expect them to engage with us in sexy times a la Cap’n kirk / green alien thang? Or such.

    Hope you like a probe up the pooper.

  411. Mysticdog said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:36

    Thanks for concisely saying what I believe, too, albeit in a pervy manner.

    I specialize in pervy conciseness!

  412. tigris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:41

    Blah blah blah If the crippling American debt burden being accumulated by our presidential “buffoon”; and, our associated “decline” as a world superpower is of no consequence to you, consider the abhorrent financial millstone that we are hanging on our children’s economic future. Blah-dy blah

    You spelled “Bush” wrong.

  413. Bilo said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:47

    Actor, full text of the Emo Phillips joke re. Baptist schisms is at:

    http://ttblogs.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/04/emo_phillips_on.html

  414. Whale Chowder said,

    September 9, 2010 at 1:57

    Hope you like a probe up the pooper.

    I imagine some like it more than others. *sidewise glance at Pupienus*

  415. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 2:02

    “Hope you like a probe up the pooper”

    why yes I do, thank you very much. You should try it sometime – it’s *ahem* fabulous.

    pedestrian? Little help here?

  416. Smut Clyde said,

    September 9, 2010 at 2:05

    Colonoscopy jokes are so two threads ago.

  417. Jennifer said,

    September 9, 2010 at 2:06

    I think the most salient question w/r/t UFO/aliens is: why the obsession with cow anuses?

    You’d think a civilization advanced enough to visit us in flying saucers would have come up with a way to make artificial cow anuses by now.

  418. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 2:07

    Bilo said,

    I told that joke to my Presbyterian minister father in law some years back. He lolded. I suspect Emo is not the original source though being on an iPhone and such I can’t be arsed…

  419. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 2:09

    In re: artificial cow anuses: izzat what they put in artificial hot dogs?

  420. Bilo said,

    September 9, 2010 at 2:12

    God – I have no reason to believe. And as a bland atheist, I don’t run around quibbling with people aggressively (thinking of a friend, not a comment re. anybody here) over it. I was just raised, well, not-raised to believe anything. Nothing was told to me, no fairy tales poked into my ears at age 3.

    Sasquatch? Yeah, lots more evidence of that. Even footprints in the sand…

  421. El Cid said,

    September 9, 2010 at 2:13

    Uh oh. Sarah Palin says the Qur’aan burning is “antithetical” to the American way. TeaTards attack!

  422. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    September 9, 2010 at 2:35

    Well, according to the delicious Yellow Thunder Woman, we all are.

    why am I finding myself surprised that B^4 likes the Bastard Fairies?

  423. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 2:36

    Gary, shut the fuck up. You are dumb. Just accept it.

  424. Lawnguylander said,

    September 9, 2010 at 2:50

    These fights between the atheists and the Christians are very divisive and completely unnecessary too. I don’t believe in God but I don’t care if other people do and I just don’t understand what all the fighting is about. How about this as a compromise, will the the atheists stop making fun of the Christians and making them sad if the Christians will agree to stop talking about their fucked up, stupid ass beliefs?

  425. Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist said,

    September 9, 2010 at 2:52

    izzat what they put in artificial hot dogs?

    Yeah! Maybe that’s it. I couldn’t figure out what kind of plant would be so horrible that they could make it into veggie dogs.

    Rafflesia or something, was what I was thinking, but if there’s some sort of botanical cow ass that would be the one.

  426. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 2:59

    Rafflesia or something, was what I was thinking, but if there’s some sort of botanical cow ass that would be the one.

    Raffi likes cow ass? Scandalous!

  427. Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:04

    Raffi likes cow ass? Scandalous!

    We’ve all heard the rumors, but I just can’t buy it.

    Then again, my ma always said of Liberace, “I’ve heard what they say about him, but don’t you believe it. He was always very nice to his mother.”

  428. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:07

    Raffi likes cow ass? Scandalous!

    Well, Raffi lived in the neighbourhood and a lot of the local ladies had some interesting stories.

  429. jim said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:10

    Sasquatch? Yeah, lots more evidence of that. Even footprints in the sand…

    “When there was only one set of footprints, that was when I was carrying you running away so you couldn’t get a picture of me.”

  430. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:12

    When there was only one set of footprints, that was when I ditched you to go drinking.

  431. Bitter Scribe said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:13

    my ma always said of Liberace, “I’ve heard what they say about him, but don’t you believe it. He was always very nice to his mother.”

    Lenny Bruce had a bit about an oblivious mother of a gay man who would periodically confide, “Lennie, you’re not going to believe it—Alfie still hasn’t gotten married!”

  432. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:19

    A very sweet coming out scene.

  433. Snorghagen said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:19

    What’s a speech on Southern values without the gratuitous shot at the laziness and shiftlessness of the people picking your cotton while you reap the benefits while doing exactly jack shit.

    Doing jack shit? That’s not fair – flogging is hard work.

  434. Major Kong said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:25

    I always figured Liberace had to be straight.

    I was like “Come on, nobody’s that gay!”

  435. El Cid said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:29

    And I said,’But Lord, during the hardest parts of my life, there were only one set of footprints.’

    And the Lord said, ‘Dear child, I’m really sorry about that, I might have been busy or something.’

  436. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:33

    And the Lord said Preexisting conditions LOL

  437. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:34

    And the Lord said: I was catchin’ a Public Enemy show, yo.

  438. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:35

    And the Lord said: But I had cramps and my sister is such a bitch and men are assholes…Walk your own ass down the beach. I’m not carrying you.

  439. Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:37

    Lord, during the hardest parts of my life, there were only one set of footprints.

    And during the really really shitty parts I only fuzzily remember there were footprints and a couple sets of hoofprints.

  440. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:37

    And the Lord said: I think this relationship has become too codependent. I think we need some space to sort things out.

  441. N__B said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:53

    I <3 ,'s!!!!!!

    So, T&U, the drugs are working better?

  442. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:54

    “I was like “Come on, nobody’s that gay!”

    your CRM114 discriminator is nonfunctional.

  443. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:57

    Don’t even get me started on the fact that there’s more evidence for Sants Claus and the Easter Bunny not to to mention the tooth fairy….

  444. justme said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:57

    You’d think a civilization advanced enough to visit us in flying saucers would have come up with a way to make artificial cow anuses by now.

    Careful what you wish for.

  445. N__B said,

    September 9, 2010 at 3:57

    “I was like “Come on, nobody’s that gay!”

    your CRM114 discriminator is nonfunctional.

    Liberace was not so much protecting precious bodily fluids.

  446. zombie rotten mcdonald said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:00

    …and the Lord said “I had other priorities.”

  447. justme said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:00

    And the Lord said, “Bitch, just be glad they ain’t cart tracks like that National Lampoon frog. Count your fucking blessings. Shit. Keep whining and watch what the fuck happens.”

  448. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:03

    Also too, the Ho was live late last night and then emceed some ridiculous 5:30 am jazz event in Pioneer Square. He was torn this evening between having a martini and going to bed early and on the other hand having some dinnner. His first inclination was to hit the hay then I said the dinner I had in mind was gouyashe (the way I learned to make it in Vienna), braised red cabbage and spaetzle.

    There’s a crazy lady in our complex – several actually.

  449. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:08

    I, on ther hand, was torn between spaetzle and servietten knodle. Forgive the sloppiness – still on iPhone.

  450. Lesley said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:08

    How soon before the Teabaggers have a cruise?

  451. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:12

    I, on ther hand, was torn between spaetzle and servietten knodle. Forgive the sloppiness – still on iPhone.

    Ah. Wondered how many hands the Ho actually has.

  452. N__B said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:13

    How soon before the Teabaggers have a cruise?

    As soon as he renounces Zenu.

  453. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:21

    Can I tell my sob story for the day? Okay, good.

    If my doctor does not release me to go to work this Friday, I will not be paid because I have no sick leave left. As it is, I am missing out on two days of pay.

  454. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:22

    How soon before the Teabaggers have a cruise?

    Cruising is not necessary for a currently active teabagger.

  455. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:22

    Oh, and my office manager is a passive-aggressive bitch who said, “I was very, very surprised you were out of vacation and personal days and sick leave!”

  456. N__B said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:23

    If my doctor does not release me to go to work this Friday, I will not be paid because I have no sick leave left. As it is, I am missing out on two days of pay.

    I imagine that it’s difficult to go postal while on crutches.

  457. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:26

    I imagine that it’s difficult to go postal while on crutches.

    I’ve being going postal in my brain for about 2 years.

    Oh, and I can’t use the fucking crutches very well, so I’m using a walker. I hate it. It’s embarrassing. But, again, how many little old ladies do you know who have gone postal?

    I guess I should be glad that I’m not going to be fired for having the audacity to fall off my bike. Thanks, FMLA!

  458. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:27

    I suppose I should also be thankful that I don’t owe thousands (probably closer to tens of thousands) of dollars for my surgery, either.

    Thanks, soul-crushing job with still fucking expensive health insurance!

  459. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:29

    Crutch bandit.

  460. N__B said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:29

    But, again, how many little old ladies do you know who have gone postal?

    Am I excluding both of my grandmothers or not?

  461. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:30

    Walker bandit.

  462. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:31

    Am I excluding both of my grandmothers or not?

    Ummm, not?

    Plus, I’ll never be a “little old lady.” I might be a “Bea Arthur-sized old lady,” though.

  463. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:33

    Subs, you made my evening. If those guys can bandit, then I can certainly get up and down the stairs to my apartment!

  464. N__B said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:34

    Am I excluding both of my grandmothers or not?

    Ummm, not?

    Two, then.

  465. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:37

    Two, then.

    Well, I guess I’m glad to know it’s isolated to the __B family.

  466. N__B said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:38

    Well, I guess I’m glad to know it’s isolated to the __B family.

    Of course, they were old and “ladies” but they were more big Russian peasant women than little.

  467. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:41

    Of course, they were old and “ladies” but they were more big Russian peasant women than little.

    Similarly, I suppose the term “lady” might be an issue for me, as well.

  468. Smut Clyde said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:44

    I imagine that it’s difficult to go postal while on crutches.

    Good way of smuggling the parts of the rifle into the building. Just saying.

  469. N__B said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:44

    The real problem with the word “lady” isn’t the sexist overtones. It’s that every time I read it, I hear it spoken by Jerry Lewis. Laaaaaaaydeee…

  470. Smut Clyde said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:45

    I have no suggestions as to how to conceal the cartridges.

  471. N__B said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:46

    I have no suggestions as to how to conceal the cartridges.

    Have you watched Videodrome recently?

  472. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:48

    The real problem with the word “lady” isn’t the sexist overtones. It’s that every time I read it, I hear it spoken by Jerry Lewis. Laaaaaaaydeee…

    Agreed 100%.

    I have no suggestions as to how to conceal the cartridges.

    Well, fortunately, I’m a laaaaaaaaaady, so I can put them in my purse!

  473. Shell Goddamnit said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:54

    My theory, which is mine, is that those of us who are second-generation atheists, or the children of apatheticists, are the “bland atheist” variety, who see no reason to believe but if you do, you know, whatever, just don’t be a shit. The atheists who really hate god are the the ones who were raised on him.

  474. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:54

    News with animated GIFs!

  475. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 4:56

    News with animated GIFs!

    That GIF is amazeballs, but I feel it is very disrespectful to the now-deceased cat.

  476. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 9, 2010 at 5:02

    It probably had kitty leukemia and CHOSE to go.

  477. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 9, 2010 at 5:03

    Scammer? Unpossible!

    Terry Jones has come under fire in his church’s hometown of Gainesville, USA for using his own flock to work in an antique and used furniture business owned by him and his wife, Sylvia.

    While the pastor moves between two homes, a $300,000 house in Slidell, Louisiana and a holiday apartment in Tampa, Florida his unpaid workers, motivated by their Christian beliefs, live in low rent accommodation owned by Mr Jones.

  478. Matt T. said,

    September 9, 2010 at 5:23

    I think the most salient question w/r/t UFO/aliens is: why the obsession with cow anuses?

    Perhaps they’re on a whole Terrence McKenna kick and are tying to figure out how psilocybin mushrooms get so awesome when they basically come from a cow’s butt.

    “I was like “Come on, nobody’s that gay!”

    You know, I thought much the same until this weekend. Southern Decadence is quite the eye-opener, viz. metric level of gayness. Also, the weather was incredibly nice, especially so considering how disgustingly hot and humid New Orleans has been all summer, which leads me to conclude that the Baby Jesus, instead of sending hurricanes to destroy the faggotry going on, sent the cool, balmy weekend ’cause he’s down with guys in assless chaps have a helluva good time.

  479. Bilo said,

    September 9, 2010 at 5:37

    HEY LAAAAAAA-DY! Here’s a nice link to a website with the satire and the irony and the meanness and the small amount of smirking…

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/it-was-then-that-i-carried-you-vs-bullshit-jesus-t,11542/

    I actually have no real contact with Jerry Lewis, culturally. LAAAAAA-DY! is in my brain because Letterman yelled it for many years, JL-style.

  480. N__B said,

    September 9, 2010 at 5:42

    I actually have no real contact with Jerry Lewis, culturally.

    Consider yourself lucky. In 6th grade, I was on the AV squad and showed “The Disorderly Orderly” twelve times in a two-week stretch.

  481. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 5:50

    And the Lord said: STFU I’m trying to help a dude win a football game plus a got a Quran on the barbie, mate.

  482. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 5:52

    Scammer? Unpossible!

    With a mustache like that, you just know the guy’s all wrong. But then if you’re a teabagger, it could really pan out for you.

  483. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 5:55

    plus a got a Quran

    Fail.

  484. Jennifer said,

    September 9, 2010 at 5:56

    RE: second-generation atheists: my parents weren’t so much atheists as abstainers. Well, maybe Dad was an atheist, though he always said he was against “organized religion”, though for all of that he was a completely secular guy. In any case, despite my mother’s fervent wishes that we would all attend church together as a family, we only very, very, very rarely did – I think I remember two times from childhood and a couple of Christmas Eve services as a teen, and that in a mainline Presbyterian church at that, which almost doesn’t even count. I don’t think we ever went to church on Easter, at least not that I can recall.

    In any case, thanks to Dad’s mulishness on the topic of attending church, I was never infected with the habit. Mom in later years admitted that she really doesn’t believe in heaven and my guess is for the most part not a good bit of what’s in the Babble – though she’s now a church deacon. Again, mainline Presbyterian, so it might as well be the Garden Club. For her, it’s all about being involved with something and the other people there.

    I’ve gotten in the habit of thanking her, on a regular basis, for not subjecting me to having my head filled with horseshit when I was but a defenseless child.

  485. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 5:57

    Dee duh dee duh deeee…..

    Where’d erbody go?

    OH–did you all catch Meghan on Maddow tonight. NOT that kind of “on” ya fucking pervs.

    She’s a strange kitty. I kinda like her in the same way you’d like a really hot chick who spent time in prison for a murder.

  486. Lurking Teabagger said,

    September 9, 2010 at 5:58

    Wait, librarians get PAID?

    Yaaaaaargle blargle blaugh blaugh freeeemmmmmmmm……………………

  487. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 6:02

    RE: second-generation atheists: my parents weren’t so much atheists as abstainers. Well, maybe Dad was an atheist, though he always said he was against “organized religion”, though for all of that he was a completely secular guy. In any case, despite my mother’s fervent wishes that we would all attend church together as a family, we only very, very, very rarely did – I think I remember two times from childhood and a couple of Christmas Eve services as a teen, and that in a mainline Presbyterian church at that, which almost doesn’t even count. I don’t think we ever went to church on Easter, at least not that I can recall.

    Precisely my upbringing. My church time was limited to weddings and funerals and a brief flirtation with the Mormon church since my best friend’s dad was a Bishop at the local stake. After figuring out what sort of weirdness they were all up to, I bailed.

    I pledged to not make up my mind about the existence of a deity–at least as us humans like to describe him/her/it.

  488. tsam said,

    September 9, 2010 at 6:04

    Librarians is theft! So is borrowing books on the taxpayer dime. I grew up an illiterate haterade junkie*, and that’s good enough for my brood too, goddammit.

    *Nice one, Batman!

  489. Bilo said,

    September 9, 2010 at 6:07

    g wrote:
    “Well, the only bright spot is that it takes the spotlight off Latinos, gives Spanish-speaking people a little break from receiving the full force of the Firehose of Hate.”

    I was reminded of this today by a bit of angry, racist Teabaggy resent-y shit that arrived in my inbox today from an intelligent, educated guy who should know bettter, but, oh wait, racist and hates Obama and Democrats and the concept of the equality of man, so he doesn’t really care, as long as his team’s winning, it seems.

    It was this:
    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/photos/martyr.asp

    Pathetic. The product is anger, resentment, paranoia, constant war, and the consumers create this stuff for free and pass it around. The version I rec’d ended with, “Who says this isn’t a religious war?!” Uh, I do? Al Qaeda thinks it is, but that doesn’t logically… oh, forget it. Anyway:

    They forgot to bash the bilingual aspect of the sign!

    WAKE UP, AMURRICA!!!

  490. Bilo said,

    September 9, 2010 at 6:26

    My parents were apathetic, probably because they grew up in The Good Old Days Amurrica (long before 60′s) in environments with strong, punitive/coercive/decency church environments. (One Mormon, one Catholic.)

    Also, they both were from then-controversial mixed marriages. (Polyg Mormon/normal Protestant, Irish Catholic/English Protestant with Stick Up Ass.) Big hairy deals in their day.

    Also, my parents were from that wacky bygone era when it was thought secularism and progress was going to take over and we’d all get beyond the dumb, punitive, sectarian shit. (Again, a long time ago.) So they just said, fuck it all, and didn’t tell us anything, teach us anything, take us to any houses of worship. Still, I’m the only child to have turned out outright atheist. But as I said, bland about it.

    No visions of the Lord, and no angels lobbing fiery swords at me. Sasquatch peeking in my window, though. That’ll get yer attention!

  491. Anonymous said,

    September 9, 2010 at 7:03

    Uh oh. Sarah Palin says the Qur’aan burning is “antithetical” to the American way. TeaTards attack!

    I like how she still manages to be a total cunt about it:
    “People have a constitutional right to burn a Koran if they want to, but doing so is insensitive and an unnecessary provocation — much like building a mosque at Ground Zero.”

  492. That Thing with the Stuff said,

    September 9, 2010 at 7:13

    How can you factually prove love?

    If all you’re saying is that “God” and “love” are exactly synonymous, then I now believe in God, you’ve converted me from atheism, and we share a common belief system. Amen, brother!

    But I actually suspect you think there’s more to the concept of “God” than that of “love.” And I suspect we don’t have my lack of belief in the supernatural in common. So your question doesn’t appear to settle the matter.

    Even so, I suspect that in our spiritual beliefs we have much more in common than not. So nevertheless I sincerely conclude: Amen, brother!

  493. justme said,

    September 9, 2010 at 7:23

    I like how she still manages to be a total cunt about it:

    Wow. Talk about on-message.

    Boehner said just about the same thing.

    The blast-fax lives.

  494. Anonymous said,

    September 9, 2010 at 7:30

    From the creaturette (I am too arsed to be creative tonite)

    The Lord said, “That’s because you really did have the strength to make it on your own! I’m a crutch you’ve been using all these years to deal with your self-esteem issues! The lesson is quit doubting yourself and become an atheist!”

  495. justme said,

    September 9, 2010 at 7:31

    Because a Nazi-esque book burning rally is exactly like building a community center.

    Fuck, these people are ugly.

  496. owlbear1 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 8:01

    Because a Nazi-esque book burning rally is exactly like building a community center.

    Just like an invasion and occupation is exactly like spreading freedom and democracy.

    You know, whatever words are necessary at the time…

  497. noen said,

    September 9, 2010 at 8:51

    Talking Points Memo
    “Even The Mosque-Hatingest Of Mosque-Haters Think Koran Burning Is A Bad Idea”

    D. Aristophanes
    “My prediction is that the more these Tea Partiers gather and protest, the more they will actually have to confront other meatbags with different views, appearances and agendas.”

    Seems to be going swimmingly.

  498. herr herbert schoenheit von vogelsang said,

    September 9, 2010 at 9:04

    i’m sorry–this has nothing to do with the extremely well written post by d. aristophanes. but i’m pretty sure some people here are probably ted leo fans, and maybe you haven’t seen the video for bottled in cork, which is a minor comic masterpiece featuring tom scharpling and paul f tompkins. http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/3cbac7e38c/ted-leo-and-the-pharmacists-bottled-in-cork-official-video

    on topic, i don’t see any real cause for optimism (despite eloquent optimism to the contrary). the whole cultural debacle reminds me more of the mad hatter’s tea party than anything else–the tea party controls the message because so many americans are willing to play a game of pretend with them. there is nothing that can make the movement blow up in the faces of its financiers (short of jello biafra and chuck d showing up with chainsaws and a crate of greenies) because too many people are already in thrall of the crazy voodoo at too visceral a level. nothing is going to save us from these crazy fuckers.

  499. owlbear1 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 9:14

    We really need a Mythbusters episode to see which one; the Bible, Koran, or Torah, burns faster.

    Just to be scientific-y about it.

  500. El Cid said,

    September 9, 2010 at 10:03

    Good thing the Dixie Chicks didn’t come out with a “Let’s Sing the Qur’an” or “Rockin’ to the Suras” album.

  501. justme said,

    September 9, 2010 at 10:23

    Just to be scientific-y about it.

    Reminds me of the old banjo/accordion joke, as in difference between, and such as.

    Accordion burns hotter. Banjo burns longer.

  502. justme said,

    September 9, 2010 at 10:26

    Oh, and apparently the bookburner got tossed from the church he founded in Germany for, surprise surprise, having a tendency to use church funds to pay personal expenses.

    Fucking grifters, how do they work?

  503. Pastor Terry Jones of the Dove World Outreach Center said,

    September 9, 2010 at 10:35

    …church funds to pay personal expenses

    I am the Church!

  504. justme said,

    September 9, 2010 at 11:01

    Also, too. Nigger.

    Wow.

  505. Anonymous said,

    September 9, 2010 at 11:19

    http://www.suntimes.com/news/elections/1221033,ethics101408.article

  506. Pastor Terry Jones of the Dove World Outreach Center seems to have said,

    September 9, 2010 at 11:19

    It’s a church cuz I thump a Bible!!

  507. Chris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 14:24

    I like how she still manages to be a total cunt about it:
    “People have a constitutional right to burn a Koran if they want to, but doing so is insensitive and an unnecessary provocation — much like building a mosque at Ground Zero.”

    I knew someone was going to say it, in fact I suspect the Koran-burning was their idea of retaliation.

    Never mind that the one is supposed to be half bridge-building and half-innoccuous YMMA, and the other’s designed with the specific intention of attacking a religious minority.

  508. Looch said,

    September 9, 2010 at 14:26

    It’s a church cuz I thump a Bible!!

    It’s a church because it’s a church.

  509. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 14:39

    Never mind that the one is supposed to be half bridge-building and half-innoccuous YMMA, and the other’s designed with the specific intention of attacking a religious minority.

    I don’t know that it’s in retaliation for the cultural center, per se. The plans for the Koran burning seem to have been announced a while back, and while the plans for the center have been public for years, it wasn’t until August that a kerfuffle really occured.

    In fact, the cultural center was actually endorsed by Laura Ingraham on her radio program over a year ago.

  510. Chris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 14:49

    In fact, the cultural center was actually endorsed by Laura Ingraham on her radio program over a year ago.

    I didn’t know that. Wow, this controversy’s even phonier than I thought.

  511. Jennifer said,

    September 9, 2010 at 14:59

    Seems pretty clear to me why they waited 9 years to get their Muslim-hate on; they’ve been told (by each other) for the past 2 years now that Obama is a secret Muslim bent on communism and destroying the American way of life and instituting Shania law, and also, he’s trying to wind down the brown people slaughter. Maybe the only reason they ever went along with Bush’s request that they not attack Muslims is because Bush promised to do it for them, and followed through on it.

  512. Chris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 15:11

    Jennifer said,
    September 9, 2010 at 14:59

    Huh, interesting. I never thought of that. I always figured it’s as simple as Bush told them to sit tight, and they went along with it because was the Leader says goes.

  513. Looch said,

    September 9, 2010 at 15:14

    Jennifer said,
    September 9, 2010 at 14:59

    Also throw in the worsening economic realities and their impacts. People are much less secure than they were and are realizing how fucked they are. Very ripe conditions for hating The Other.

  514. Jennifer said,

    September 9, 2010 at 15:19

    Chris – I never thought of it either until a couple of days ago. I was like, “why now, 9 years later?” In part it’s now because one or more of the dickholes who makes up the crazy shit to feed to teatards put two and two together, as in, “hey, we’ve already got most of the retards believing he’s a muslim – if we just whip up this non-troversy, maybe we can make him defend their right to have a cultural center, which will PROVE it once and for all.”

  515. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 15:20

    Also throw in the worsening economic realities and their impacts. People are much less secure than they were and are realizing how fucked they are. Very ripe conditions for hating The Other.

    And an election year.

  516. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 15:22

    Chris, the reason no one really knew about Ingraham’s condonation is that, well, she’s been very vocally against it. Lately.

    Except…well, the Internet serves a purpose.

  517. Looch said,

    September 9, 2010 at 15:23

    And an election year.

    Ayup.

  518. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 15:30

    I’m kinda curious what the blowback is going to be after the imam appeared on Larry King last night and basically tried to scare the haters away.

  519. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 15:34

    I’m kinda curious what the blowback is going to be after the imam appeared on Larry King last night and basically tried to scare the haters away.

    I should know better

    The mangoes. They smell funny.

  520. Blaco said,

    September 9, 2010 at 15:46

    And the Lord said: I can fly, you jackass. What part of omnipotence don’t you understand?

  521. Anonymous said,

    September 9, 2010 at 15:51

    Pastor Terry Jones of the Dove World Outreach Center seems to have said,

    September 9, 2010 at 11:19

    It’s a church cuz I thump a Bible!!

    Blessed are the piece makers!!

  522. Chris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 15:55

    Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf said Wednesday that if he’d known “it would cause this kind of pain,” he might have chosen a different location.

    (from Yahoo News).

    See, every time part of me thinks “well, in fairness, it is a sensitive location and it would upset a lot of people, rightly or wrongly, so there was an error of judgement on his part there…”

    Except that no, there really wasn’t, because he bent over backwards and tiptoed through tulips making sure it wouldn’t cause this kind of pain, to the point that he even got Laura Ingraham’s blessing. The property was purchased in the summer of 2009, and quite a few people knew about it then; yet for an entire year after that, no one anywhere in this country lifted a finger in protest. Everyone just went about their business; Rauf had very good reason to believe it wouldn’t cause any kind of pain.

  523. tigris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 16:02

    Xecky, you a veggie? I’ve been meaning to try making these, and googling “vegetarian hot dog recipe” get tons of variations.

    Also: And the Lord said, “see, those are my footprints, and if you look closely you can see your handprints, too… wheelbarrow-style! How could you forget, I fixed you homemade waffles with real maple syrup for breakfast?!!”

  524. Chris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 16:10

    I’ll say that the “national security” comment was bad PR, though. Not that he was going to get good PR in any case. Smartest thing he could do is simply ignore it until it blows over.

    “The reasons why this YMMA is being built have been stated and restated; once upon a time, they were enough to satisfy even Laura Ingraham. If you want to know them, Google them. I have no intention of spending the next six months on national television debating the use of my private property with people that I offend by my very existence. Thank you.”

  525. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 16:17

    I’ll say that the “national security” comment was bad PR, though.

    I think that’s the frustration talking. I mean, he’s right: even moving the center at this point is going to smack of American imperialism and it is easily painted as antithetical to the very same freedoms we’re trying to pass along to others.

    But it was a clumsy way to phrase it. What he really should have said is “Look, we’re trying to show the Muslim world that America and Americans are actually very tolerant and principled people, and any move now would harm that message.”

  526. Chris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 16:29

    But it was a clumsy way to phrase it. What he really should have said is “Look, we’re trying to show the Muslim world that America and Americans are actually very tolerant and principled people, and any move now would harm that message.”

    Yeah.

    Plus, anything he says is going to get twisted out of recognition anyway. I mean, the man made an argument that America was more compatible with Islamic Shari’a principles than most countries in the Middle East, and the right wing media’s been reporting it for weeks as a call for the U.S. to submit to Shari’a.

  527. Whale Chowder said,

    September 9, 2010 at 16:52

    RE: the TL&Rx vid — thanks, that was good.

    And RE: Imam Rauf’s comments…hoo boy. He walked right into that one. As usual, though, when you watch the whole interview the message is quite different. I do wish he’d said, clearly, “We got this building years ago, it wasn’t controversial then, it’s only controversial because it’s a convenient whip to use against us now.” And I meant to use “whip” with all its baggage there.

  528. El Cid said,

    September 9, 2010 at 16:53

    tigris: It may be lazy, but the Morningstar Farms veggie dogs are really good, as long as they have good flavored toppings, not just ketchup / mustard.

  529. Xecky Gilchrist said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:01

    I’ve been meaning to try making these, and googling “vegetarian hot dog recipe” get tons of variations.

    As it happens I made an instance of that recipe just two nights ago. I wasn’t sure about the fennel measurement so put 3 tsp in my spice-dedicated coffee grinder and gave it a buzz and that worked out. Also, a bit more garlic and 1 1/2 tsp pepper flakes. I use them on vegetarian pizza and cook bits of it with potatoes and onions for a bachelory breakfast thing.

    They need to cool a while after steaming (and may need a bit longer in the steamer than the 40 minutes recommended, but they work as written.) I put them in the fridge in a ziplock once they’re cool enough to handle.

    There’s an interesting discussion of spice combinations for emulating other kinds of sausages based on this recipe here, but the only one I’ve tried (Andouille) was horrible so proceed with caution.

    El Cid – agreed re: Morningstar veggie dogs, but I don’t think they make them anymore.

    There’s a well-received recipe for veggie dogs here which I’ve been meaning to try but it uses a couple of odd ingredients and I haven’t gotten around to it.

  530. Xecky Gilchrist said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:03

    (not really clear from my sloppy writeup there but I’ve made those sausages – the Vegan Dad ones, though the version of the recipe that appears in Isa Chandra Moskowitz’ “Vegan Brunch” – a few times and really like them. I wouldn’t say they tasted just like real Italian sausages, but as vegetarian pseudomeat goes they’re quite good and pretty easy to make.)

  531. LittlePig said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:04

    it’s a convenient whip to use crack against us now.

    Fixx0rd for extra Crackerness.

  532. Esteev said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:26

    justme said,
    September 9, 2010 at 11:01

    Also, too. Nigger.

    Wow.

    Wow is right. That is disgusting. And is exactly what Jesus would be saying.

    I love the “double standard” argument too. And the black man wan’t made in God’s image argument. That’s a new one. Nothing finer than a moronic white guy with some hate and a video camera. These people are more dangerous than Al Qaeda

  533. El Cid said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:32

    agreed re: Morningstar veggie dogs, but I don’t think they make them anymore.

    I didn’t know, but some other brands do and they taste the same to me.

    These are really good, as are these, and freakishly, these are actually really good. They’re a vegetarian McRib, only better and with much less pig ass.

    My general favorite are the sausage patties (the links suck) as long as I’m serving them with enough egg to take the edge off. The tempeh-based (maybe, just not soy) sausage things I haven’t tried.

    The things that I’ve found absolutely horrific are these soy-based sausage / brat substitutes. Oh my god they were awful.

    I’m not at all vegetarian, I just think the variety and difference is interesting, and sometimes healthier. Presumably, due to calorie and fat contents versus similar meats. Sometimes the price isn’t higher either for any non-gross and fresh meat products.

  534. Esteev said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:33

    Boner Killer

  535. Xecky Gilchrist said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:41

    El Cid – wow, we have much in common. I’m a big fan of the sausage patties and indeed the links are teh suxx0r – not sure why there’d be such a difference. But Costco sells the patties here and we never have fewer than three boxes on hand.

    I will try the lightlife dogs, not sure about the non-ass McRibs (will have to get over how they look before trying ‘em.)

  536. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:46

    Hmph. No, you ignorant stupid redneck fuckwad, it doesn’t make angry. Amused and concerned, yes. You make a good argument for retroactive abortion. And Jesus was a swarthy Jew – suck on that.

  537. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:46

    My general favorite are the sausage patties (the links suck) as long as I’m serving them with enough egg to take the edge off

    Agreed. And if you cook them in a fair amount of butter or oil, you can make pretty good gravy with them.

    I used to be all about the Boca bratwursts, which are, I think, just as good as any commercially produced real bratwursts.

    Of course, they don’t even begin to compare to good, handmade ones, but I’d take a Boca over a Johnsonville any day.

    Now, let the sausage jokes begin…

  538. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:47

    The things that I’ve found absolutely horrific are these soy-based sausage / brat substitutes. Oh my god they were awful.

    Ha! I missed that.

    I also cooked the veggie brats in beer and grilled them, so they probably picked up some residual grease. That may have helped, too.

  539. Xecky Gilchrist said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:49

    Now, let the sausage jokes begin…

    Glad to hear you like the Morningstar & Boca stuff too, T&U, or this would be a vegetarian sausage festival.

  540. tigris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:49

    Cid, a lot of the Morningstar stuff is pretty good, but some have a wonky aftertaste. The sausage patties absolutely REQUIRE mustard, and DO NOT try the mapley ones, which we bought accidentally one time. EW. Most of the sausage links I’ve tried have been awful, so I’ve been researching recipes and waiting for cooler weather. I also keep meaning to look for vegetarian casings so I can grill me some snappy home-made brats and dogs this fall. Xecky, I’d understood you, thought it was perfectly clear! It’s nice to know someone who’s already tried it and can give tips!

  541. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:50

    Yay! My couch is here and I don’t have to eat in bed anymore!

  542. Xecky Gilchrist said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:50

    (oh, re: veg sausage fest, saving your presence, tig.)

  543. Oblio's Cap said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:52

    Your Fat Paycheck Keeps Your Neighbor Unemployed:

    So here comes the leap into ice-cold water: The biggest problem with the labor market right now is that wages are too high. As Washington again turns to government spending as a cure for unemployment, some against-the-grain thinking is in order.

    Economics teaches that full employment would be reached if wages adjust downward, to a level that better reflects current circumstances. At lower wages, employers would desire more workers. Labor markets generate persistent unemployment only if wages are sticky, failing to fall as demand declines.

    Bet ya didn’t know that ,didya?

    POOP

  544. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:55

    The PNW’s homegrown burger chain, Burgerville, had to change suppliers for their veggie patty a while back. The new ones are made here in PDX and are very tasty indeed. I’ll look it up because you ought to try them if they’re in your market.

    Boca “chicken” patties are good – I frequently make “chix” sandwiches for a more healthful lunch than our usual PeeJ cuisine.

  545. Esteev said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:56

    POOP

    Didn’t I see Kevin Hassett on To Catch a Predator? He brought all those ice-cold Zimas.

  546. Lurking Canadian said,

    September 9, 2010 at 17:58

    Economics teaches that full employment would be reached if wages adjust downward, to a level that better reflects current circumstances.

    You know, Winthrop, I would hire more people at the plant if they’d all work for $1 a day, but the dirty peasants keep expecting to be paid “enough to live on”, keep bleating about needing “a roof over head” and “food on the table” and “medicine for my kids”. It’s so bleeding tiresome, sometimes, that I want to just go Galt.

  547. owlbear1 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:00

    The biggest problem with the labor market right now is that wages are too high. As Washington again turns to government spending as a cure for unemployment, some against-the-grain thinking is in order.

    How about the government stops handing out tax breaks for outsourcing jobs to India and China? Which is the ONLY reason those places have ‘cheaper’ labor.

  548. Chris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:00

    As Washington again turns to government spending tax cuts as a cure for unemployment, some against-the-grain thinking is in order.

    “Economics teaches” – what happened to against-the-grain thinking? We know economists are bullshitters trying to subvert the will of the people. Why does it suddenly change when they’re conservative economists?

    As for wages adjusting downwards, why does that somehow apply to everyone except the top 1%? Why can’t CEOs and stockholders take a decrease in income so their employees who’ve given far more to the company and are at far greater risk can keep their wages? In the name of Christian values why aren’t the rich doing exactly that?

  549. Whale Chowder said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:00

    I don’t have to eat in bed anymore!

    Hope nobody has kicked you out for leaving crumbs.

  550. Willy said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:02

    I never understood the drive to make vegetarian foods look like meat products. I mean you’re not eating meat so why the attempt to make it meat-like?

  551. owlbear1 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:02

    Fit the bun?

  552. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:03

    Come to think about it, veggie patties are about the only highly processed, prepared food. I Just now realized that usually don’t even go into the frozen foods section when shopping – just walk right by.

  553. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:06

    “owlbear1 said,
    September 9, 2010 at 18:02

    Fit the bun?”

    best sausage joke yet.

  554. Oblio's Cap said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:08

    You know, Winthrop, I would hire more people at the plant if they’d all work for $1 a day, but the dirty peasants keep expecting to be paid “enough to live on”, keep bleating about needing “a roof over head” and “food on the table” and “medicine for my kids”. It’s so bleeding tiresome, sometimes, that I want to just go Galt.

    Ben Stein would be so proud of you!

  555. Jennifer said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:09

    The veggie substitutes can be tasty.

    But they’re pretty far removed from being real food. They’re kind of a poster-child for “highly processed food-like products” as Michael Pollan dubs them.

  556. Oblio's Cap said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:10

    “owlbear1 said,
    September 9, 2010 at 18:02

    Fit the bun?”

    best sausage joke yet.

    Indeed.

    Even of the answer is that “everyone just loves handling a large Chunk O Meat”.

  557. tigris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:11

    Willy, it depends on people’s reasons for eating veg. Some people like the taste and texture of meat but don’t want to kill for it, or don’t want to support factory farming, or want to keep kosher or eat a little more healthily, etc.

    As Washington again turns to government spending as a cure for unemployment, some against-the-grain thinking is in order.

    Against the grain thinking: Cut taxes, do away with minimum wage laws, reduce regulatory oversight. MY GOD why has no one ever thought of these things before?!!

    Also, lunch: roasted corn, sage and goat cheese pizza.

  558. Whale Chowder said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:13

    As for wages adjusting downwards, why does that somehow apply to everyone except the top 1%?

    Duh, because the CEOs are the Producers. They must be rewarded, else the Looters and Moochers win.

  559. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:14

    Your Fat Paycheck Keeps Your Neighbor Unemployed:

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!

    Just that picture warrants bringing Junkpuncho on, don’t you think?

  560. tigris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:18

    Actually, I am finding it pretty hard* to argue that Kevin Fassett, at least, is not WAY overpaid.

    *You know it.

  561. tigris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:19

    Or Hassett. Wevs.

  562. gocart mozart said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:25

    Most awesome political speech fail ever!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIh_Vd7cvT8&feature=player_embedded

  563. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:33

    Hope nobody has kicked you out for leaving crumbs.

    Not yet, although I did get a little red wine on the sheets.

    I am a little bummed, though, that it completely overshadows my cute mid-century coffee table. But it’s still not bad for something I didn’t get to see in person.

  564. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:41

    Most awesome political speech fail ever!

    Holy fuck. This made my morning.

    “I have a MASTER’S in COMMUNICATION!!!!”

  565. Lurking Canadian said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:44

    I couldn’t watch. I watched about the first fifteen seconds and had to click away. It felt like watching a toddler walk into the crocodile pen at the zoo: I knew how it was going to end but I couldn’t bear to see that part.

  566. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:45

    Economics teaches that full employment would be reached if wages adjust downward, to a level that better reflects current circumstances.

    No. MORON economics teaches that. Economics, the kind people actually rely on, teaches us that wage levels have very little impact on activity one way or another.

    Indeed, I’d make the case (and I sort of do today on my blog) that higher wages = MORE economic growth.

  567. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:47

    I couldn’t watch. I watched about the first fifteen seconds and had to click away. It felt like watching a toddler walk into the crocodile pen at the zoo: I knew how it was going to end but I couldn’t bear to see that part.

    I want to know where he got his master’s in communications from. I mean, communications is kind of a bullshit degree anyway, but you’d think he’d know enough not to yell hoarsely at people for no particular reason and be able to remember to say his name without looking at his notes to remind him.

  568. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:48

    Most awesome political speech fail ever!

    What’s with the pacing back and forth?

    And why is he wearing a road-kill hedgehog on his head?

  569. Chris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:49

    but you’d think he’d know enough not to yell hoarsely

    He sounded kinda like the guy from Spaceballs does right after he’s told “What’s the matter Colonel Sandurz? Chicken?”

  570. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:56

    I mean, communications is kind of a bullshit degree anyway, but you’d think he’d know enough not to yell hoarsely at people for no particular reason and be able to remember to say his name without looking at his notes to remind him.

    I almost expected him to end jutting his chin out at the audience and folding his arms angrily across his chest, expecting, oh, I don’t know, a rousing ovation and shouts of “BEEG SHMILE! BEEG SHMILE!”

    Or something like that.

  571. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:58

    What’s with the pacing back and forth?

    Nervous, terrible public speaker thinking he’s being dynamic.

  572. Whale Chowder said,

    September 9, 2010 at 18:59

    I was waiting for him to burst into tears. That or bust out a pistol and start shooting. Could’ve gone either way.

    You have to appreciate his passion for the position of Stark County Treasurer.

  573. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:02

    Nervous, terrible public speaker thinking he’s being dynamic.

    Maybe he was under a death threat?

  574. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:05

    Maybe he was under a death threat?

    Maybe. But I’ve seen high school debate speeches like that, and it just turned out that the kid was really dumb.

  575. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:05

    But I’ve seen high school debate speeches like that, and it just turned out that the kid was really dumb.

    So you’re playing the cougar down at the local high school, eh?

  576. Major Kong said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:11

    Economics teaches that full employment would be reached if wages adjust downward, to a level that better reflects current circumstances.

    Sooooooo, the key to prosperity is for all of us* to make less money? Who knew?

    *Except for CEO’s of course. They’re never, ever overpaid.

  577. Whale Chowder said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:11

    She doesn’t have to “play” cougar. Over 30 now, amirite?

  578. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:13

    He’s hit the HuffPo – I’m just waiting for the tragic news out of Ohio.

  579. smedley said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:14

    Cheap shot there, actor. I will defend T&U forthwith: That debate club kid coulda passed for 24 easy.

  580. J— said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:14

    An authoritative source:

    Davidson rocked the assembly at The Johnson Center of Malone University located in Canton, Ohio with his “hellfire and brimstone” political presentation the likes of which few politically involved citizens have ever seen.

    It could be that earlier in American history, the Davidson-esque style was not all that uncommon. But in 2010, it certainly is.

    That’s Martin Olson’s Stark County Political Report.

  581. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:15

    She doesn’t have to “play” cougar. Over 30 now, amirite?

    I hope my popcorn is done before she replies.

  582. smedley said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:17

    “Sooooooo, the key to prosperity is for all of us* to make less money? Who knew?”

    What is his answer to the inevitable deflationary spiral that would then ensue?

  583. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:19

    What is his answer to the inevitable deflationary spiral that would then ensue?

    Lower taxes for the rich, which would drive demand and inflation pressure, of course.

    Nevermind that a tax cut for the rich hasn’t worked in about thirty years.

  584. Pupienus Maximus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:23

    “What is his answer to the inevitable deflationary spiral that would then ensue?”

    STFU, probably.

  585. Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:28

    the key to prosperity is for all of us* to make less money? Who knew?

    Indeed, the key to everything is for all of us* to make less money. Articles like that really only need a few tweaks on the first paragraph to accommodate the reason du jour to claim that lucky duckies make too much, and the subsequent ranting can be reused.

  586. smedley said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:29

    I noticed that Hassett also wondered why more people aren’t pulling up stakes and heading for Fargo. Clearly, he has never spent a winter in Fargo, and by winter in Fargo, I mean October through May.

  587. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:30

    So you’re playing the cougar down at the local high school, eh?

    Ewwwwwwwwwwww. No.

  588. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:32

    She doesn’t have to “play” cougar. Over 30 now, amirite?

    You’re lucky I haven’t quite perfected my nad-kicking abilities in crutches yet.

  589. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:34

    Cheap shot there, actor. I will defend T&U forthwith: That debate club kid coulda passed for 24 easy.

    Have you seen most high school debaters?

  590. Nymstradamus said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:36

    What is his answer to the inevitable deflationary spiral that would then ensue?”

    I dunno. Gold maybe?

    I know that’s what they hock for allegedly impending inflationary periods, but perhaps he thinks gold is an economic cure-all.

  591. vacuumslayer said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:36

    She doesn’t have to “play” cougar. Over 30 now, amirite?

    Yikes. That’s the only requirement?

  592. tigris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:38

    Justme, that video left me speechless. Dove World Outreach is the antonym for those useless skinbags.

  593. tigris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:40

    the key to prosperity is for all of us* to make less money?

    Unless we’re Bloomberg magazine authors, in which case our neighbors are unemployed because of their shiftless parasitism.

  594. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:44

    Besides, I have three more days before I turn thirty. Harumph.

  595. Lurking Canadian said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:44

    What is his answer to the inevitable deflationary spiral that would then ensue?

    Even further reductions in salary demands by undeserving peons. Duh.

  596. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:46

    The Five worst textbooks in the world for factual information.

    Texas came in fourth.

  597. Substance McGravitas said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:51

    Justme, that video left me speechless.

    That’s what A MASTER’S DEGREE IN COMMUNICATIONS!!! will do for you.

  598. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:54

    Holy Social Security! The Goddamn Batman retired!

  599. Whale Chowder said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:56

    Yikes. [Being over 30 is] the only requirement?

    No, not at all. You also have to prey on pursue younger (sixteen? really, T&U!) men.

  600. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 19:58

    sixteen? really, T&U!

    She likes ‘em big and stoopid.

  601. Chris said,

    September 9, 2010 at 20:01

    The Five worst textbooks in the world for factual information.

    Iran, China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, and the United States.

    Are you sure you’re not reading a list of the world’s greatest practitioners of the death penalty?

    I can think of a few other similarities…

  602. Whale Chowder said,

    September 9, 2010 at 20:04

    She likes ‘em big and stoopid.

    Maybe that explains her attraction to tolerance for you. (I keed…)

    You’re lucky I haven’t quite perfected my nad-kicking abilities in crutches yet.

    My nads have taken the hint and are retreating even now.

  603. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 20:05

    My nads have taken the hint and are retreating even now.

    If you listen closely, children, you can hear the squee….

  604. smedley said,

    September 9, 2010 at 20:06

    “The Five worst textbooks in the world for factual information.

    Texas came in fourth.”

    As a Texan, I feel I speak for all Texans and hereby proclaim that WE WILL NOT TOLERATE BEING NUMBER 4. Step aside, Iran, China and Saudi Arabia. We got you in our sites. We will not stop until WE ARE NUMBER 1!!!11!!!

  605. vacuumslayer said,

    September 9, 2010 at 20:14

    No, not at all. You also have to prey on pursue younger (sixteen? really, T&U!) men.

    See, that’s gonna be a problem because a.) not into younger men and b.) I’m married.

    Crisis averted, I guess!

  606. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 20:14

    No, not at all. You also have to prey on pursue younger (sixteen? really, T&U!) men.

    Please. I am far too impatient to teach 16-year-olds how to do it right.

  607. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 20:18

    She likes ‘em big and stoopid.</i<

    Well, yeah, but I also like them to last longer than three minutes, so…

  608. gocart mozart said,

    September 9, 2010 at 20:24

    I think the guy was going for the Dwight Shrute meets Mussilini style.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXbbGycK_L4

  609. Whale Chowder said,

    September 9, 2010 at 20:24

    I’m married.

    Not necessarily a disqualifying condition.

    I haz a sad because I’ll never be hunted by a cougar again, unless she’s, like, 80.

  610. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 20:27

    I haz a sad because I’ll never be hunted by a cougar again, unless she’s, like, 80.

    Once you go gums, you’ll never cums.

  611. vacuumslayer said,

    September 9, 2010 at 20:27

    I haz a sad because I’ll never be hunted by a cougar again, unless she’s, like, 80.

    ROFL! That struck me funny. That would be one old, tenacious cougar!

  612. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 20:31

    Well, yeah, but I also like them to last longer than three minutes, so…

    Really?

    Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm….

  613. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    September 9, 2010 at 20:43

    Really?

    Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm….

    Just rub a couple out beforehand. You’ll be fine.

  614. Anonymous said,

    September 9, 2010 at 21:36

    You’re lucky I haven’t quite perfected my nad-kicking abilities in crutches yet.

    Better technique, though it takes a little practice– use the non-load-bearing crutch to jab.

  615. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 9, 2010 at 22:20

    Clearly, the method to nad-kicking in crutches is to use the crutch as more a fulcrum, swinging back and then forward to jam the foot further into the testicle-type region.

  616. actor212 said,

    September 9, 2010 at 23:00

    Clearly, the method to nad-kicking in crutches is to use the crutch as more a fulcrum

    Oh, you mean like pole vaulting?

  617. Whale Chowder said,

    September 9, 2010 at 23:34

    Oh, you mean like pole vaulting?

    I’m picturing a sort of cast trebuchet.

  618. St. Trotsky, Pope-in-Avignon said,

    September 10, 2010 at 1:09

    I’m picturing a sort of cast trebuchet.

    Close to what I was advising, yeah.

  619. ice weasel said,

    September 10, 2010 at 13:50

    All this faith in the American is touching. Entirely misplaced but touching nonetheless.

  620. EiEiE said,

    September 19, 2010 at 18:54

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    http://www.vancouversun.com/news/RCMP+continue+search+missing+Alberta+couple/3545712/story.html

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    May 26, 2013 at 2:27

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