Jun
3

The Lehi of the Internets




Posted at 19:13 by HTML Mencken

Via TBOGG, here is Commentary‘s Jennifer “Bili” Rubin plainly making a such an extreme demand of loyalty to Israel there is no other word to describe it but fascist:

There is a single question that every individual, group, and nation must answer. To borrow from the most pro-Israel president since Harry Truman: if you are not with Israel, you are against her. And if you do not oppose with every fiber of your being and every instrument at your disposal that which intends the Jewish state harm, you are enabling her destroyers.

As blarg-blarg as she can be, perhaps not even Pam Geller is this extreme – and she is more or less openly an admirer of Meir Kahane! This is the most baroquely fascist thing I’ve heard in the service of Zionism since Daniel Craig’s character in Munich snarled that the only blood he cared about was Jewish blood.


Above: Commentary group photo.

The with or against formulation that Rubin borrows from Bush was of course intellectually dishonest and morally retarded in its original context, but Rubin has inflamed and expanded far beyond that: this is Barry Goldwater’s “extremism in pursuit of [___] is no vice” but, as applied to the (mostly American) Jews in Rubin’s target audience, ethnic loyalty or blood loyalty or tribalism fills in the blank, and as applied to everyone else outside of Israel, loyalty or subservience to a foreign country. By any means necessary — which is what “every instrument at your disposal” actually, you know, means. This is the talk of terrorism; of terrorists.

But then it’s been obvious since Norman Podhoretz went totally and irredeemably batshit in the mid-70′s that Commentary, the AJC, and all whom such entities and people speak for (AIPAC, Likud Governments, Israeli settlers and indeed a large swathe of the Orthodox Jewish population in Israel, American neoconartists, et al.) are hellbent on following the model of Lehi (aka, the Stern Gang), terrorists whose Zionism was so extreme they assassinated a U.N. mediator who had saved thousands of Jews from the Holocaust and, for good measure, offered to work with the Nazis against the British.

This kind of loyalty, or demand of loyalty, to a country is such an extreme form of nationalism that it is a textbook component of fascism. But it’s not just nationalism, either; it’s ethnic nationalism, and, to boot, in this context is being discussed by citizens of a different country!

Wingnuts often whine about identity politics-obsessed leftists, and sometimes they even have a point (though they aren’t the ones to be making it). But the intense identification with Israel, “Jewishness”, and Judaism (and exactly in that order) among right-wing Jews is the single most flagrant and dangerously obsessive form of identity politics in America today, precisely because it so strongly influences foreign policy. Moreover, it is typical of such right-wing American Jews that they pretty much categorically have a “multiculturalism for me but not for thee” attitude, yet it is a fact that random black people (omg scary! unAmerican!) who celebrate Kwanzaa, identify with Africa, and maybe wear dashikis — exactly the antique type still haunting Podhoretz’s nightmares; younger Pod People no doubt have moved on to mosque-attending, keffiyeh-wearing Arab-Americans or baggy-pants-wearing, hip-hop-listening African-Americans — have no influence on American foreign policy; the same cannot be said for Ms. Rubin’s cronies.

A large item in the sociopathic mentality of a totalitarian is a desire for Purity Control. In both left and right forms of the disease, ideological purity is of great concern; Rubin’s paragraph, of course, has that in spades in her demand for pure loyalty to Zionism at all costs. But the religious and especially ethnic component makes her ravings — and those of so many others — explicitly fascist: the idea is the nation, the nation is the tribe, the tribe is “chosen” or exceptional or entitled just because it is and also because Yahweh or Moses or History or Mommy and Daddy says it is, anything that dilutes the tribe’s purity – of purpose or otherwise — must be destroyed. It’s no accident that Rubin’s rant was inspired by Elliott Abrams, a convicted criminal who lied to Congress, purity fetishist who wrote a book railing against the tendency of liberal American Jews to marry gentiles, and son-in-law of Commentary‘s longtime ruler, Norman Podhoretz. And it’s no accident that Abrams married into a family whose patriarch, even when a young Trotskyist in Brooklyn, was motivated like nothing else (his Rosebud, as it were) by hatred of two neighboring groups: black people and the assimilated American Jews whose tribalism he found disgustingly impure.*

*And what can be said about NPod also goes for his friend and coeval (moar like co-evil, amirite?), the late Irving Kristol.

111 Comments »

  1. Chris said,

    June 3, 2010 at 19:16

    One of the best posts I’ve seen in a while, HTML. Well done.

  2. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    June 3, 2010 at 19:24

    Agreed.

    That excerpt is fucking terrifying.

  3. justme said,

    June 3, 2010 at 19:33

    OT, though it’s never really OT, is it?

    Mickey Kaus blows…
    Oh, just check it out.

    Also, too. Someone needs to oil the hamsters again at Sadly Central.

  4. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    June 3, 2010 at 19:41

    As blarg-blarg as she can be, perhaps not even Pam Geller is this extreme – and she is more or less openly an admirer of Meir Kahane!

    Intentionally mispronouncing here:

    But if you carrying pictures of Meir Kahane
    Don’t you people will call you insane?

    I remember when Kahane was assassinated, I was a few blocks away walking to the 6 train after work.

  5. Scott said,

    June 3, 2010 at 19:43

    What they said. Masterful stuff.

    It’s hard to believe anyone would pull out the “with us or against us” line without a massive dose of irony. Of all the crap that Bushco spewed, it’s surely the most completely discredited.

  6. Ted the Slacker said,

    June 3, 2010 at 19:49

    there is no other word to describe it but fascist.

    I beg to differ, but the specter of Godwin’s Law precludes me from further explaining myself.

  7. another j said,

    June 3, 2010 at 19:49

    And if you do not oppose with every fiber of your being and every instrument at your disposal that which intends the Jewish state harm, you are enabling her destroyers.

    And what if Israel’s own policies will bring her harm?

    “Shut up, that’s what.”

  8. Commander Coriander Salamander said,

    June 3, 2010 at 20:07

    America needs to cut off all funding and military aid to israel.

  9. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    June 3, 2010 at 20:11

    Are the hammies feeling better?

    And what if Israel’s own policies will bring her harm?

    Fanatic, militaristic assholes don’t believe in blowback.*

    *Not the exact term I should use, but close enough for me.

  10. vacuumslayer said,

    June 3, 2010 at 20:18

    Please keep the hamstas happy.

  11. actor212 said,

    June 3, 2010 at 20:21

    And if you do not oppose with every fiber of your being and every instrument at your disposal that which intends the Jewish state harm, you are enabling her destroyers.

    I oppose any nation which would kill people of another nation without just cause.

    Including Israel.

    I don’t know that Israel was right or wholly wrong here. I do know that Israel shares in the blame at least equally and probably more. For that, they deserve American contempt, not praise.

  12. Marion in Savannah said,

    June 3, 2010 at 20:25

    The hamsters seem to be having some odd form of sleeping sickness — one minute they’re running like mad, spinning their littlte exercise wheel, and the next minute they’re curled up sound asleep in a nest of cedar shavings. Give ‘em some Red Bull or something…

  13. actor212 said,

    June 3, 2010 at 20:26

    I remember when Kahane was assassinated, I was a few blocks away walking to the 6 train after work.

    The Mossad would like to speak with you…

  14. smedley said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:01

    Another case of conservative projection. They frequently accuse Mexican Americans of having split loyalties. Here, we have an unapologetic call for loyalty to a foreign country.

  15. Al Swearengen said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:03

    Israel is America’s “Special Needs” child. A 60-year old special needs child who determinedly will not put out a single bit of effort to improve or make themself less of a burden on the US.

    Instead, we’re required to coo and compliment them over and over on every turd they shit right in the middle of the 7 billion dollar rug we buy them every year.

  16. vacuumslayer said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:07

    Quit making fun of Trig.

  17. actor212 said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:11

    Israel is America’s “Special Needs” child.

    That’s not a bad metaphor, but that absolves Israel of complicity and premeditation.

    I see Israel more as America’s mistress: so long as she gets her way, no problem, but the second she gets into trouble, either we post bail or she rats us out to the wife.

  18. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:16

    I see Israel more as America’s mistress: so long as she gets her way, no problem, but the second she gets into trouble, either we post bail or she rats us out to the wife.

    Yeah, but when’s the last time Israel actually blew us?

  19. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:16

    The plot thicks. via Andrew Sullivan

    Reports in the Turkish press identified the American as Furkan Dogan, 19, who was born in the United States before returning to Turkey with his family as a young child…
    The Cihan news agency reported that Mr. Dogan had one bullet in the chest and four bullets fired into his head from close range.

    The next graf is probably one that Rubin would approve of:

    Israel has blamed activists for the confrontation, which occurred as Israeli commandos dropped on ropes from helicopters onto the biggest of the vessels, the Turkish-owned Mavi Marmara.

  20. smedley said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:17

    “so long as she gets her way, no problem, but the second she gets into trouble, either we post bail or she rats us out to the wife.”

    But………..who is the wife?

  21. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:18

    I mean, seriously, though. What are we getting from this relationship? Am I missing something? I can only think of the strategic necessity of having an ally in the Middle East as we hit Peak Oil, but I’m not sure it’s worth the headache.

  22. Sarcastro said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:20

    Who was it who said “The only thing Israel learned from Germany was manners.”?

  23. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:24

    Reports in the Turkish press identified the American as Furkan Dogan, 19, who was born in the United States before returning to Turkey with his family as a young child…

    Yes, but the real question is: should we have instant replays in baseball?

  24. smedley said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:36

    I think Stewart asked this last night, but what, if anything would Israel have to do to get the likes of Rubin to condemn it? Netanyahu could actually take a dump on the Oval Office rug, smear his feces on the bust of Lincoln and shred the portrait of Washington in front of Obama, Biden, McConnell and Boehner and she would excuse it because, to condemn Bibi is to enable Israel’s enemies.

  25. actor212 said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:37

    Yeah, but when’s the last time Israel actually blew us?

    She’s Jewish and she’s kept. No blow jobs.

  26. smedley said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:40

    “Yes, but the real question is: should we have instant replays in baseball?”

    Heh. But, you know the difference between a real umpire and the fake, wannabe umpire, otherwise known as the Chief Justice of the United States, is that the real umpire admitted that he was wrong.

  27. another j said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:41

    …who is the wife?

    The American voters.

    You know, taken for granted, lied to, fucked over, and then told how great we are every time Uncle Sam has an e(r)lection.

  28. actor212 said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:42

    But………..who is the wife?

    Hm. Good point.

    China?

  29. actor212 said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:44

    The American voters.

    Whoop! They it is!

  30. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    June 3, 2010 at 21:59

    And the saddest part of the whole thing is that the wife is completely clueless and even thinks the mistress is her friend.

  31. Martian Buddy said,

    June 3, 2010 at 22:08

    I mean, seriously, though. What are we getting from this relationship?

    Well, if “we” means “the people in charge, then “we” are getting millions of dollars worth of aid back in the form of campaign donations. Also too, they buy a shitload of U.S. military hardware.

    If “we” means, “we the people,” well… errr… hang on, I need to find some bug spray for all these fuckin’ chirping crickets so I can hear myself think.

  32. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    June 3, 2010 at 22:19

    If “we” means, “we the people,” well… errr… hang on, I need to find some bug spray for all these fuckin’ chirping crickets so I can hear myself think.

    Oh, yeah. I keep forgetting that policy is not intended to enrich the lives of the American people, but the people who run the government. Silly me.

  33. The Tragically Flip said,

    June 3, 2010 at 22:21

    which intends the Jewish state harm

    All due sympathy to past suffering among Jews but I don’t support the existence of any explicitly religious states. I can deal with the model of European states that have milquetoast official religions they haven’t gotten around to getting rid of because there was a good batch of pot to smoke and their mistresses needed fucking, but that’s about as far I can tolerate state sanctioned religious delusions dictating policy.

  34. actor212 said,

    June 3, 2010 at 22:25

    I mean, seriously, though. What are we getting from this relationship?

    Proximity to the oil fields. We could probably do the same thing via Turkey, but Turkey’s government has had three military coups in the past forty years. Not nearly as stable.

  35. Anonymous said,

    June 3, 2010 at 22:25

    If only the Fighting Keyboard Commandos would put down the otter’s noses and wolf nipple chips (1st century Cheetohs!) and apply to the Judean People’s Front Crack Suicide Squad. I heard there are vacancies and I’d sure respect them a lot more.

  36. Smut Clyde said,

    June 3, 2010 at 22:33

    Are many people taking themselves off to Israel to enlist in the IDF, as an alternative to staying home and demanding that everyone else’s money and diplomatic capital be sent in that direction?

  37. actor212 said,

    June 3, 2010 at 22:38

    Are many people taking themselves off to Israel to enlist in the IDF, as an alternative to staying home and demanding that everyone else’s money and diplomatic capital be sent in that direction?

    Here. Let us count……On–….wait….on—…um, almost one!

  38. Tom M said,

    June 3, 2010 at 22:46

    Well, blarg, blarg but the evangelicals are lovin’ it!

    A little bit more of this kind of talk and Israel will end up in a place they can’t get back from and then it’s the Rapture, baby! Oooooh, baby, baby!

  39. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    June 3, 2010 at 22:52

    Proximity to the oil fields. We could probably do the same thing via Turkey, but Turkey’s government has had three military coups in the past forty years. Not nearly as stable.

    Yeah, I think I sort of got at that. I’m still not sure it’s worth it.

  40. Jennifer said,

    June 3, 2010 at 22:52

    The thing that chaps my ass about the whole Israel thing is that the whole conversation still continues to avoid stating the obvious – Israel is an apartheid state and can only continue as such with continuing unconditional support – in the form of spin, foreign relations, arms, and finances – from the U.S. government.

    I mean, shit, at least we finally got to the point where every time someone mentioned the South African government, it was prefaced with “the apartheid.” Of course it took quite a few years after that obvious reality elbowed its way into the general conversation for the end of that regime to come about. With Israel, no one (who matters, anyway) in the conversation is yet willing to state the obvious reality – we’re not even as far along there as we were with South Africa in the mid-1980s..

  41. Martian Buddy said,

    June 3, 2010 at 22:53

    I’m ready to cockpunch the stupid out of Biden:

    And up to now, Charlie, what’s happened? They’ve said, “Here you go. You’re in the Mediterranean. This ship – if you divert slightly north you can unload it and we’ll get the stuff into Gaza.” So what’s the big deal here? What’s the big deal of insisting it go straight to Gaza?

    The problem, fuckwit, is that the “we’ll get the stuff into Gaza” part–if it happens at all–happens at such a glacial pace that critical things like medicines expire before they get to the people who need them. There’s also the insanely restrictive and arbitrary nature of the items on the “banned” list.

    To be fair, he does go on to acknowledge that there is, in fact, a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, which is more than can be said for a lot of the Israel apologists.

  42. El Cid said,

    June 3, 2010 at 23:12

    There are no children starving to death in Gaza. This is simply mythmaking. They’re merely severely underweight, developing illnesses resulting from malnutrition, wasting, and experiencing measurably stunted growth.

    You libruls have to stop lying in order to justify your criticisms of Israeli policy. Even the UN says the children aren’t starving. Just experiencing some other stuff, which isn’t important.

  43. Mike Toreno said,

    June 3, 2010 at 23:16

    No, it isn’t fascist. For it to be fascist, there would have to be an accusation of disloyalty to SOMETHING TO WHICH YOU HAVE AN OBLIGATION OF LOYALTY. I’m a citizen of the UNITED STATES. It isn’t defamatory to accuse me of disloyalty to a FOREIGN COUNTRY. They intend it to be defamatory, but it isn’t. So I’d call it attempted fascism.

  44. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    June 3, 2010 at 23:18

    There’s also the insanely restrictive and arbitrary nature of the items on the “banned” list.

    Dude, if I were Israel, I’d want to keep gingers out, too.

  45. tsam said,

    June 3, 2010 at 23:20

    Can someone tell me what the motivation for all of this blind, ignorant support for Isreal? I get the whole “feeding the defense industry monster” aspect, but that doesn’t seem to rationalize acting like a pure fascist.

    It reminds me of bad sports fans. Every call against your team is a bad call, a no call is bad call if you wanted one against the other team, and every call for your team was the right call. Isreal has the right to defend herself? Ok, then how is it that PALESTINE via Hamas or the PLO or PA not have the right to defend herself?

    It’s really something that I’m shamefully ignorant about.

  46. another j said,

    June 3, 2010 at 23:21

    Biden is in a rough place, diplomatically. So while I do wish he would speak more truthfully, I can’t fault him directly for it.

    What we do need is to change US relations with Israel, which he’s not currently in a position to do. His boss is – and he’s got a lot of fires to put out right now, but this is definitely another one and moving towards the front burner.

    I mean, Israel has nukes. What if the Israeli military goes full batshit? Granted, N. Korea vs. S. Korea is slightly more likely – but if Israel attacks a Turkish battleship escorting food into Gaza, all bets are off.

  47. LittlePig said,

    June 3, 2010 at 23:22

    I’m left wondering if Israel nukes Ankara, who will NATO go after?

    I’m guessing Madagascar.

  48. Mysticdog said,

    June 3, 2010 at 23:22

    Isreal needs to ban anyone over the age of 40 from government, and start over. Their old guard is too old, too violent, and too entitled.

  49. LittlePig said,

    June 3, 2010 at 23:26

    Can someone tell me what the motivation for all of this blind, ignorant support for Israel?

    For Southerners, I’ve always assumed it was the fundy Christian connection. God gave Israel the deed, that settles it.

  50. tsam said,

    June 3, 2010 at 23:29

    For Southerners, I’ve always assumed it was the fundy Christian connection. God gave Israel the deed, that settles it.

    Sounds about right. I saw a documentary once, where they were interviewing some dumb Isreali whore on a balcony overlooking a settlement jutting out into Palestinian territory. She said “This is my land, God gave this to me”. I thought, “this will never be over”.

    I do know that New York and Florida, as electoral states, are pretty important…

  51. Brandi said,

    June 3, 2010 at 23:45

    For Southerners, I’ve always assumed it was the fundy Christian connection. God gave Israel the deed, that settles it.

    It’s a little more than that– pre-Millennial Dispensationalist Christians (the ones who use the Left Behind series as stroke fodder) believe that End Times and the subsequent rapturing of their selves will not start until the Temple of Solomon is rebuilt in Jerusalem. So Israel must exist in order to immanentize the eschaton.

  52. gocart mozart said,

    June 3, 2010 at 23:46

    via Andrew Sullivan

    “Reports in the Turkish press identified the American as Furkan Dogan, 19, who was born in the United States before returning to Turkey with his family as a young child…
    The Cihan news agency reported that Mr. Dogan had one bullet in the chest and four bullets fired into his head from close range.”

    Yes but he is not a RAILMURKIN so no harm no foul. I wish this were snark.
    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/06/026449.php

  53. noen said,

    June 3, 2010 at 23:55

    “Can someone tell me what the motivation for all of this blind, ignorant support for Israel?”

    Collective guilt for the holocaust mixed in with a desire that the Jews play out their staring role in Armageddon and the “birth pangs” announcing the return of Jesus. In the meantime we can makes a quick buck because God wants you to be rich.

  54. Whale Chowder said,

    June 4, 2010 at 0:03

    OT: just in case you were feeling good today:

    http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/06/bp-bars-photos-dead-wildlife-bodies-pile

  55. Whale Chowder said,

    June 4, 2010 at 0:08

    From gocart’s link:

    Coincidentally, Scott Rasmussen published a poll this morning that found 58 percent of voters favor the abolition of birthright citizenship. I think the majority is right on this issue.

    The Constitution, Motherfucker! You heard of it?

    As for Dogan, it is reported that he was shot five times at close range, four times in the head. If that is correct, it is reasonable to infer that he was one of those attacking Israeli soldiers with a club, knife or other weapon and was shot in self-defense.

    Hm, oddly enough, no mention of the Israeli authorities’ claim that they only aimed at legs. Wonder how he missed that?

  56. El Cid said,

    June 4, 2010 at 0:10

    Israel has for a long time been seen as an unrestricted proxy for U.S. hawks’ & liberal hawks’ desires to see the shit beat out of Muslims and Arabs. I mean, we certainly contributed our best efforts by arming, funding, and protecting Israel from any law or opposition, and sometimes directly like when Reagan sent our navy to bombard the shit out of Lebanese civilians in Beirut.

    They loved South Africa’s apartheid leadership not just for oppressing their own negroid population, but for slaughtering the shit out of the left-leaning African nations on their borders — the jacking off to South African white war adventure porn in the 1980s went right along with self-touching degrees of praise for the various terrorist groups Ronnie hired to kill civilians in Angola and Mozambique.

    And of course there was the entire decade of serious wanking to Central American death squads and terrorists as ‘freedom fighters’ mowing down all these uppity peasant types who didn’t seem interested in being illiterate, starving, diseased domestic servants and crop-pickers any more.

    They were a bit more confused about all the hirin’ of the Moozlims in Afghanistan, but they liked the whole ‘blow up the Russians’ part.

    It wasn’t until Gulf War 1 that the U.S. foreign policy masturbation-in-the-cause-of-killin’-Arabs caucus got its satiation from the near carpet-bombing of Iraq and the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, including the bulldozing of hundreds of Iraqi troops trying to surrender and the incineration of troops trying to retreat.

  57. roy edroso said,

    June 4, 2010 at 0:10

    What, no one’s called you an anti-Semite yet? They must be busy!

  58. Mysticdog said,

    June 4, 2010 at 0:10

    Israel controls our dialogue because Jews control our media and we are held hostage… they can take us from “The Sopranos” and “House” to “Cop Rock” and “Walker: Texas Ranger” at the flip of a switch! Rumor has it they have developed a special “Mattlock has gay sex and gets AIDS” episode to traumatize our elderly and jamming our phone lines with calls to congressmen.

    We know who’s bitch we are…

  59. Paul T. Lazaro said,

    June 4, 2010 at 0:40

    Great post.

  60. Mr. Wonderful said,

    June 4, 2010 at 1:16

    For a good discussion of this, see here:

    http://tinyurl.com/2f8xwuh

  61. tsam said,

    June 4, 2010 at 1:22

    immanentize the eschaton.

    Oh.

    What?

  62. tsam said,

    June 4, 2010 at 1:26

    Collective guilt for the holocaust mixed in with a desire that the Jews play out their staring role in Armageddon and the “birth pangs” announcing the return of Jesus. In the meantime we can makes a quick buck because God wants you to be rich.

    Wow, that was more nauseating that opening that mystery Tupperware container from the back of the refrigerator.

    Those were essentially my suspicions but I’m trying to be careful not to oversimplify or let my personal prejudices cloud my thinking. Turns out I didn’t need to worry about that. I was right all along.

  63. Martian Buddy said,

    June 4, 2010 at 1:28

    Hm, oddly enough, no mention of the Israeli authorities’ claim that they only aimed at legs. Wonder how he missed that?

    Obviously, the pliers-wielding hippy jihadis were attacking with their ankles behind their neck.

  64. Little Boots said,

    June 4, 2010 at 2:01

    It feels like this is the year when the whole Israel Uber Alles thing collapses of its own weight. Jewish and Gentile Americans will come together to say, enough with this bullshit. We are sick of this stupid idea that everybody has to cosign every stupid or bloody minded thing that every Israeli government does. Then things get truly interesting.

  65. Pupienus Maximus said,

    June 4, 2010 at 2:04

    immanentize the eschaton.

    Oh.

    What?

    For the best analysis of the concept, see Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shea’s Illuminatus trilogy. For the boring old shit look up some religious history.

  66. Little Boots said,

    June 4, 2010 at 2:06

    It’s all about Armageddon, Little Pig (are we related? Are our nyms?). Israel has to be there for everything to fall into place, and allies of Israel get some kind of break, I think.

  67. Pupienus Maximus said,

    June 4, 2010 at 2:08

    Also, be aware that some of these nutjobs are busy trying to genetically engineer a red heifer. I swear I am not making this up.

  68. Pupienus Maximus said,

    June 4, 2010 at 2:09

    Little Pig (are we related?

    Are you made of pig skin?

  69. Little Boots said,

    June 4, 2010 at 2:10

    Maybe a Little bit, Pupienus.

  70. Whale Chowder said,

    June 4, 2010 at 2:37

    Also, be aware that some of these nutjobs are busy trying to genetically engineer a red heifer. I swear I am not making this up.

    I have also read this too. As well. I find it laughable except for the fact that these people believe in their fairy (of the magical kind, Puppyanus, put the knife down) stories enough to want to hurry along the end of the world and who the fuck knows what they’ll stop at?*

    *so my participle is dangling. Sue me.

  71. noen said,

    June 4, 2010 at 2:39

    “Little Pig (are we related?”

    Long pig tastes mighty good. Kinda like spicy ham (so I’m told, honest!).

  72. noen said,

    June 4, 2010 at 2:44

    The Red Heifer

    Horrifying fact to bear in mind: These people have been in charge since St. Ronnie Raygun ascended to heaven.

  73. noen said,

    June 4, 2010 at 2:49

    my participle is dangling.

    Heh…

  74. Smut Clyde said,

    June 4, 2010 at 3:04

    What’s the tea-baggers’ position on US-Israeli relations? Have they been told yet?

  75. Larkspur, Humble Simpleton said,

    June 4, 2010 at 3:30

    Okay, the immigration into Palestine (then under Ottoman rule) of Diaspora Jews took place during the 1880s, with another more significant influx between 1904 and 1914. There were a lot of Eastern European Jews who were fleeing Russian and Polish pogroms. At that time, Christians, Muslims, and Jews pretty much had authority over their own populations, and apparently everyone sort of envisioned that eventually the region would become a kind of international zone.

    After WWI, the British occupied Palestine and Trans-Jordan, per the League of Nations Mandate. Obviously, there was already a significant degree of conflict between the Jewish immigrants and the Palestinian residents. Apparently Britain didn’t exactly finesse the handling of various riots, and each side (especially the Jews) began to develop the philosophy that they were on their own and they’d have to protect themselves.

    So then, the hideous upheaval of WWII. During the war, most of the Jewish population of Palestine sided with Britain. Many Palestinians either did not, or were disorganized in their response, or thought the Axis powers would prevail, and that that would be a good thing since they’d gain control over their lands.

    The British did not endear themselves to Jews worldwide when they severely restricted immigration into Palestine from 1939 on. Meanwhile, the U.S. did not exactly break a sweat accepting desperate Jewish refugees. After the war, Britain was obviously severely depleted and had only tenuous control over the region. Also, everyone was mad at them; the U.S. even delayed a promised aid payment to Britain because of the immigration restrictions.

    All this time, the more Europeanized immigrant Jews were proving more successful than the Palestinian residents at farming, infrastructure, etc. Clearly they had philosophical and practical links to the West that the Palestinians did not have.

    So more and more information comes out about the Holocaust, and those of you who are younger than I am (probably a lot of you) may have a hard time understanding just how devastating and horrific this information was. A lot of the West feels guilty for having refused refugees, and for kind of disliking Jews generally, and Britain’s armies are being called home, and so in 1947, this partition is formed on the already rickety structure of the British Mandate-defined territory, and all manner of fizzy heck ensues.

    So why the continued stranglehold that the State of Israel has over the U.S.? I don’t know. I think there’s something fractalish about it: look at the stranglehold the Likud party has had over Israeli governments in general, even though the majority of the Jewish population is really sort of secular.

    I think there’s guilt here being expiated over there. Also, I think there’s simply a pro-Western bias here: the Jews in Israel tend to be much more familiar to us than the Palestinians or Muslim residents in the region. For a long time, people thought that Israel would prove to be democracy’s outpost in the Middle East, and that would be a good thing. Sometimes I think it’s less pro-Israeli/Jewish and more anti-Muslim. But I simplify, and also too? I could be totally wrong about everything. Shutting up now.

  76. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    June 4, 2010 at 4:24

    No! I think your analysis (urinalysis?) is spot-on. I understand the feelings of guilt–I really do. But, you know, how does aiding in the oppression of one group of people lessen the oppression of another? Especially when the first group wasn’t even involved in the oppression of the second.

  77. creature said,

    June 4, 2010 at 5:54

    I got past being a jew (even wanted to emigrate the “Promised Land”!) by abandoning the religion for atheism. If I had no god, I wouldn’t be motivated to do “god’s work”. Made a lot more sense that demented religious types did demented, inhuman things to humans. Truly, Israel has become exactly what it was formed to nullify. “Promised Land”, my ass. More like “Poisoned Land”, poisoned by the twisted hatred in the minds of the zionist psychopaths- and the good ol’ USA funded and fomented it. As was noted above, the fascist assholes of the USA have had their foot on the throttle of most of the late 20th century world-wide miseries. End times, indeed- I don’t think it will go down the way the demented think it will.

  78. New England Psychopath said,

    June 4, 2010 at 6:13

    What possible reason could there be to give food and medicine to people?

  79. COWALKER said,

    June 4, 2010 at 6:40

    I don’t believe in a life after death, and I HATE going to the Hitler level, and yet my significant other and I could not avoid the thought that a Hitler writhing in hellfire would still get a little chuckle from the news that Israel is completely intolerant of opposition. There is nothing that is not off-limits in defending the Third Reich, oops, I mean the state of Israel.

    Yeah, Hitler could understand that reasoning.

  80. gocart mozart said,

    June 4, 2010 at 9:06

    New England Small Dick

    Forgive me. I am still a baby who only “thinks” what my masters allow me to think. I was told as a child that blacks and hispanics are evil and Israel can do no wrong ever. I do not question this. If you had a lizard brain like me, I bet you would not question it either.

  81. Tehanu said,

    June 4, 2010 at 9:35

    The Tragically Flip said,

    All due sympathy to past suffering among Jews but I don’t support the existence of any explicitly religious states. I can deal with the model of European states that have milquetoast official religions they haven’t gotten around to getting rid of because there was a good batch of pot to smoke and their mistresses needed fucking, but that’s about as far I can tolerate state sanctioned religious delusions dictating policy.

    Like!

  82. actor212 said,

    June 4, 2010 at 14:48

    You liberals really are suckers if you believe everything you hear from the main stream media.

    No, because we’d be conservatives if we did that.

  83. Larkspur said,

    June 4, 2010 at 17:00

    “…But, you know, how does aiding in the oppression of one group of people lessen the oppression of another?….”

    It doesn’t, and it’s tragic and it makes my heart hurt. I don’t know if there was any point, early on, at which the parties could have decided, hey, look, this is insane, we could all be happier, safer, wealthier and less likely to be maimed and killed if we sit down and look at our various claims on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis.

    The Palestinians have been oppressed by Israelis from Day One. Also on Day One? The Palestinians became creatures to be exploited by neighboring states, states which might have tried to integrate the refugees, at least until some mechanism for filing claims against Israel could be hammered out, but instead provided Palestinian refugees with miserable camps – not way stations or DP processing centers, but permanent living quarters.

    And things have just got more polarized from there. A number of countries and powers, including obviously us, but also comprising regional states, have a vested interest in keeping things in an uproar. We sent tons of aid to Israel, for sure, but it is also a lucrative market for the testing of weapons, R&D, and sales, sales, sales, and we are not the only ones guilty of benefiting from the permanent state of emergency.

    Now, for years, the volatile coalition governments in Israel have skewed more and more to the radical right, and we know how that goes. I get the anger, and certainly the outrage. Just remember that what Israel now looks like to us is what we look like to most of the rest of the world. The Israeli people are ultimately responsible for electing their radical policy makers, just like I am responsible for failing to be good enough or organized enough to prevent the election of the regime that brought us Shock and Awe, and Dick Cheney’s Dark Side, and Rumsfeld and Rice and the whole band of unindicted war criminals. Not to mention bridges that collapse, states that are going bankrupt, and a perfectly nice gulf that is getting ded.

    Look, I’m going on and on, and it’s obvious I’m no expert, but this whole thing has been breaking my heart for years, and it’s hard to talk to anyone about it.

  84. LittlePig said,

    June 4, 2010 at 17:11

    It’s a little more than that– pre-Millennial Dispensationalist Christians (the ones who use the Left Behind series as stroke fodder) believe that End Times and the subsequent rapturing of their selves will not start until the Temple of Solomon is rebuilt in Jerusalem.

    Brandi, they only know that because their preachers tell them so. I was talking about Joe Average southerner, who tends to be remarkably unaware of the text he claims such high regard for. I like to throw the Beatitudes at the “God said it, I believe it” guys – it pisses them off. It brings joy to my little pagan heart.

  85. Andrew said,

    June 4, 2010 at 17:50

    I find the use of female pronouns to refer to Israel creepy and weird. I suppose theirs some kind of historical/linguistic precedent where countries, like ships, are treated as female, but I never see any other nation referred to as “she” or “her” now.

    “Every journalist covering Japan has been talking about HER revolving door of prime ministers this week”

    “South Korea says it is referring North Korea to the United Nations Security Council over the sinking of HER warship that SHE says was attacked by HIS submarine”

  86. Chris said,

    June 4, 2010 at 19:19

    Israel is America’s “Special Needs” child. A 60-year old special needs child who determinedly will not put out a single bit of effort to improve or make themself less of a burden on the US.

    Instead, we’re required to coo and compliment them over and over on every turd they shit right in the middle of the 7 billion dollar rug we buy them every year.

    You’ve got a point, but I think the same thing can be applied to far too many Americans, too. Look at how distraught the entire country got when Obama hinted that the war in Iraq was bad, and the entire flood of right-wing commentors going “there, there, of course America’s the bestest country in the world, you have nothing to apologize for, the real meanie here is Obama for making you feel bad.”

    The nationalism-God exists over here, though not nearly as much as in Israel.

  87. Chris said,

    June 4, 2010 at 19:29

    I mean, seriously, though. What are we getting from this relationship?

    A weird, weird kind of identity politics that can unite liberals (Jews being a historically oppressed minority) and conservatives (who hate Muslims a lot more than Jews, and have the whole evangelical thing going for them too).

    I remember reading about the electoral politics in the South in 1948, when Truman was fighting off a third-party challenge from Strom Thurmond. Apparently, one of the wedge issues that worked out for him was Israel; the Dixiecrats had adopted the KKK’s “Fuck the Jews” platform, so Truman countered it with “read the Bible, the Jews are God’s chosen people,” which won over a lot of crucial voters (it was the Bible Belt even then). The South’s been pro-Israel ever since.

    Yeah, a really, really, really weird kind of identity politics.

  88. Chris said,

    June 4, 2010 at 19:31

    There are no children starving to death in Gaza. This is simply mythmaking. They’re merely severely underweight, developing illnesses resulting from malnutrition, wasting, and experiencing measurably stunted growth.

    Oh, don’t be such a liberal. Remember Reagan; if they go to bed hungry, they’re all on a diet.

  89. Chris said,

    June 4, 2010 at 19:42

    Last post here, I promise,

    I got past being a jew (even wanted to emigrate the “Promised Land”!) by abandoning the religion for atheism. If I had no god, I wouldn’t be motivated to do “god’s work”. Made a lot more sense that demented religious types did demented, inhuman things to humans.

    One of my best friends did exactly that, but comments on how weird it is that so many people in the community want him to stay because God or no God, it’s important to be “culturally Jewish.” In fact, he estimated that probably over half of the people at his synagogue didn’t believe there was a God – they did, however, strongly believe in Israel and in the Jewish people.

  90. Paul Luscher said,

    June 4, 2010 at 21:28

    At the risk of sounding anti-Semitic:

    I think certain American Jews need to consider that demanding unquestioning support for Israel by the U.S., no matter how reprehensible Israel’s actions may be, could actually lead to anti-Semitism. One is sometimes led to wonder which country certain American Jews pledge their allegiance to: the United States or Israel.

    One example: the Jewish guy I knew who wouldn’t serve in the American military during the Vietnam war, but thought it would be perfectly acceptable for American soldiers to die in Israel’s wars.

    I think it needs to be understood that America is NOT a province of Israel, and that it is NOT in America’s best interests to act as an enabler to a country that is beginning to act increasingly like a spoiled, arrogant and mean-spirited child, and may need to be told off for its own good, as well as ours.

    Mind you, I am certainly not referring to ALL American Jews, and maybe not even to most of them. Many, like Glenn Greenwald, see the dangers inherent in America’s lopsided Middle East policies–for Israel as well as America.

    But if AIPAC, with support from some American Jewish quarters, continues with its stranglehold on American Middle East policy, and in its manipulations to further the interests of Israel over America’s, it’s possible that the old ugly idea of a “Jewish conspiracy” and “Jewish domination” of our government, solely for their own interests, might take further root than it already has in certain quarters.

    Who needs the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” to become a bestseller here? Not me…

  91. actor212 said,

    June 4, 2010 at 21:54

    Paul, I disagree with you, but mildly. American interests in the oil-rich Middle East demand we have some base of operations there.

    Yes, we could prop up Egypt or Saudi Arabia, but there would be decades of unrest until we were finally accepted, after all these years of backing Israel.

    Right now, Israel is the best we can do. We have to work with that.

  92. Chris said,

    June 4, 2010 at 21:56

    To be completely fair, I think Americans serving in foreign armies aren’t necessarily wrong. The Lafayette Escadrille in World War One, the Abraham Lincoln Brigade in the Spanish Civil War and the Flying Tigers in World War Two are historical examples of people doing that. Did they have dual allegiances? Maybe… but to me, and I think most Americans today, these people are heroes.

    So I don’t object on principle to Americans serving foreign causes, I don’t have a universal rule against that. I just don’t think Israel’s a cause worth fighting for. Very much the opposite.

    (And I think the chances of antisemitism happening over here because of it are very much zero. My guess is that no matter how egregious Israel’s politics become, they’ll lose very little of their support in America).

  93. Chris said,

    June 4, 2010 at 22:03

    Right now, Israel is the best we can do. We have to work with that.

    Sure would have been nice if Truman’s policy of friendship towards Mossadegh had been continued. Then, Iran could have been our main partner throughout the fifties, sixties and seventies… AND the next three decades.

  94. Substance McGravitas said,

    June 4, 2010 at 22:08

    American interests in the oil-rich Middle East demand we have some base of operations there.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_bases

  95. Paul Luscher said,

    June 4, 2010 at 22:17

    I dunno if “Israel is the best we can do.” Even if that was the case, it doesn’t mean that we have to rubber-stamp every action it takes. Sometimes you have to tell a friend what they’re doing is wrong–and for their own good, too.

    Sorry to say it (again), but if our Middle East policy is going to be “Israel is always right,” we’ll NEVER be able to untangle ourselves from the mess we are in, in the Middle East. At some point , we will have to make some accommodation to the Arab side of the street, if there is ever to be a satisfactory resolution of the situation.

    BTW, I wasn’t talking about American citizens fighting in foreign armies. The gentleman I was referring to thought the American ARMY should fight in Israel’s wars, if I didn’t make that clear…

  96. actor212 said,

    June 4, 2010 at 22:28

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_bases

    Right, because we’re so free to operate in Yemen …C’mon, Subby, you’re smarter than that.

  97. Chris said,

    June 4, 2010 at 22:28

    I dunno if “Israel is the best we can do.” Even if that was the case, it doesn’t mean that we have to rubber-stamp every action it takes. Sometimes you have to tell a friend what they’re doing is wrong–and for their own good, too.

    Agreed – other leaders (Sarkozy) have said that too, but none of them have the means to make Israel listen. Only America does, but it doesn’t have the will for it.

    Sorry to say it (again), but if our Middle East policy is going to be “Israel is always right,” we’ll NEVER be able to untangle ourselves from the mess we are in, in the Middle East. At some point , we will have to make some accommodation to the Arab side of the street, if there is ever to be a satisfactory resolution of the situation.

    I don’t think the right wing wants a satisfactory resolution of the situation. As far as they’re concerned, the Arabs are bad and will always be bad by definition. Frankly, I think a lot of them are salivating at the idea of watching it end in an apocalyptic war, with the Arab world nuked all the way to hell and back.

    And the left doesn’t have the will (or frankly the votes, on this issue) to overrule them, so I don’t see anything changing. I really wish it would, though.

    BTW, I wasn’t talking about American citizens fighting in foreign armies. The gentleman I was referring to thought the American ARMY should fight in Israel’s wars, if I didn’t make that clear…

    Sorry, I thought you meant American Jews who go overseas to fight in the IDF (there are a lot of these).

  98. Substance McGravitas said,

    June 4, 2010 at 22:38

    Right, because we’re so free to operate in Yemen …C’mon, Subby, you’re smarter than that.

    Follow the link, read the link. There is no American military value to Israel that can’t be had elsewhere – and that isn’t already being had elsewhere.

  99. actor212 said,

    June 4, 2010 at 22:41

    There is no American military value to Israel that can’t be had elsewhere – and that isn’t already being had elsewhere

    I don’t consider military personnel basically imprisoned in their barracks on the same plane as Israel. Sorry.

  100. actor212 said,

    June 4, 2010 at 22:42

    I mean, dayum, boy, you really think our boys are wandering Cuba, even tho we have a base at Gitmo?

    LOL! That’s funny.

  101. Paul Luscher said,

    June 4, 2010 at 22:43

    No prob.

    Re my comments about anti-Semitism, I did not mean it was an immediate danger. But in the long run, this is something that COULD possibly happen to American Jews, if ever the perception arises among the general public that American Jews owe their first loyalty to Israel, and too bad for America; i.e. we get bogged down in (another) long and bloody war in the Middle East, fought on behalf of Israel. (Hey, anything’s possible. If you’da told me thirty years ago that we would invade Iraq–a country whose name I couldn’t even spell–I would’ve thought you were nuts.)

    I’m saying that American Jews need to think about acting in such a manner so as to PREVENT that perception from ever arising. The ugly little screed by Jennifer Rubin–which Sadly No! points out, has unpleasantly fascist overtones–is the kind of thing that could backfire on American Jewry someday down the road….

  102. Substance McGravitas said,

    June 4, 2010 at 22:44

    Again: follow the link, read the link. What military value does Israel have to the US? Was the Iraq war launched from Israel or something?

  103. actor212 said,

    June 4, 2010 at 22:46

    What military value does Israel have to the US?

    You put words in my mouth, Sub. Stop it. Who said “military”? Not me! But you jumped ugly on it because you have this unusual and frankly creepy need to somehow prove me wrong all the time.

    Which speaks more about you than me.

  104. actor212 said,

    June 4, 2010 at 22:47

    The ugly little screed by Jennifer Rubin–which Sadly No! points out, has unpleasantly fascist overtones–is the kind of thing that could backfire on American Jewry someday down the road….

    Precisely, and precisely why I view the both extremist positions on this with a gimlet eye. America needs a better strategy in the Middle East than it has, and it starts with getting the fuck out of the region.

  105. Substance McGravitas said,

    June 4, 2010 at 22:48

    You put words in my mouth, Sub. Stop it. Who said “military”? Not me!

    Okay then! Explain what business is done in Israel that can’t be done elsewhere in the area.

  106. Substance McGravitas said,

    June 4, 2010 at 23:21

    I am guessing Israel is the Base of Bagel Operations.

  107. Rechavia Berman said,

    June 5, 2010 at 0:52

    OMG, she said that? Damn. Lehi, huh? You know they almost spiked the water supply of London with cholera? This, mind, was AFTER the partition was voted on at the UN. Luckily, it was aborted at the last moment.

    Every country has its insane people. In my country, they run the asylum. sob.

  108. Rechavia Berman said,

    June 5, 2010 at 0:57

    Substance – to be honest, about the business, the answer is hi-tech. I mean, sure, it’s *possible* to do it anywhere. But right now, no country in the region has the adequate infrastructure and more importantly, because it takes far longer to create – the qualified workforce. I’m not saying this in a racist way, but simply as fact the way things are right now – you couldn’t staff Intel’s plant in Egypt, Jordan or Syria. If you could they’d do business there cause it’s way cheaper. Maybe Lebanon, but that’s way too unstable (or viewed as such).

    Still, just because Intel has a plant here doesn’t mean Israel should get a free pass and unquestioning backing from the US.

  109. Rechavia Berman said,

    June 5, 2010 at 1:01

    And fuck yeah. When the US public wises up to how much damage US interests sustained in the course of the unquestioned support for Israel’s ruinous policy of aggression, there will be a HUGE backlash – unless there’s peace first.

  110. Substance McGravitas said,

    June 5, 2010 at 1:10

    I’m not saying this in a racist way, but simply as fact the way things are right now – you couldn’t staff Intel’s plant in Egypt, Jordan or Syria.

    Oh yeah, sure there’s tons of high-level technological expertise in Israel, but that’s nothing the US needs a presence in the Middle East for: as you say it’s available elsewhere, and that’s a business necessity and not a “base of operations”.

    Iran produces quite a bit of engineering expertise, but um, you know.

    Good luck.

  111. Larkspur said,

    June 5, 2010 at 2:54

    The potentially astounding thing is – and damn, I’d like to write an alternative history novel about it (hey, does anyone know of one other than The Yiddish Policemen’s Unit?) is what the entire region might have been like had some things gone differently. What if Israel’s borders were not sealed off completely, there was cautious cooperation in land use and irrigation, and development of the tourist trade that could include tours of the entire region without risking land mines or ten hours at a dusty border stop. People going to college together. People going to archeological sites together. Possibly an international zone in Jerusalem to guarantee all the dumb religionists’ access to holy sites. Jerusalem is a big fucking deal, I get that, but an accommodation like an international zone would seem perfectly reasonable considering what has happened since 1947.

    We’d also have to deal with the collapse of Saudi Arabia, and there’d likely still be problems in Iran and Afghanistan, depending on how their fundamentalist issues played out. But I don’t think the House of Saud could have withstood the relative openness that would have accompanied a Middle East that wasn’t locked into a protracted death struggle. Saudi Arabia would not benefit from a Palestinian-Israeli glasnost, and of course if Saudi Arabia ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy.

    I have to stop talking about this now. It makes me have nightmares in which the only outcome is a radioactive plain of fused glass where you can’t tell what’s Palestinian and what’s Israeli.

Leave a Comment

  • Things of Interest

  • Meta Goodness

  • Clunkers

  • httpbl_stats()