Mar
19

Gee I can’t imagine why health care reform is unpopular…




Posted at 20:25 by Brad

As I’ve said before, I believe we should pass the current health care bill simply because getting uninsured people covered is important and because it’s sadly the best our corrupt political system can give us right now. But Jesus, I don’t have to feel good about it. Ezra inadvertently explains why:

This year, the Obama administration succeeded at neutralizing every single industry. Pharma supports the bill. Insurers are incoherent on it, but there’s not a ferocious and united campaign to kill the proposal. The American Medical Association has endorsed the Senate bill. The hospitals have endorsed the bill. Labor has endorsed the bill. The business community is split, with larger employers holding their fire.

You can take that as a critique of the bill’s deals and concessions. But it represents a remarkable level of industry consensus.

See, yeah. When I voted for Hope’n'Change two years ago, I didn’t think it would involve bribing the living shit out of every major stakeholder and interest group in the country. We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good. If anyone knows what happened to that sort of political courage, I’d be glad to know.

149 Comments »

  1. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:28

    It’s this precise induction that makes me think we could have worked harder for a better deal. We might not have gotten single payer some form of public option would have been possible.

  2. mmy said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:35

    We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good.

    Really? When? The Civil Right Act wasn’t opposed by any one particular “special interest” so I think you’d have to go back to FDR. He was only working on the Great Depression. Plus, distrust of government is higher than it was in his day (thanks for that, Nixon, may you rot in hell).

  3. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:36

    Ayup. And I believe one of our esteemed colleagues (by which I mean somebody who makes POOP jokes in the comments) linked to this column from Glenn Greenwald saying that the powers that be actively campaigned against the public option.

    Which is why I’m a little skeptical of the “pass it and improve it” argument. I’m afraid that the whole system is going to have to collapse on the weight of itself before any actual reform happens. That would suck for everyone in general, and the Democrats in particular.

  4. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:39

    The Civil Right Act wasn’t opposed by any one particular “special interest”

    The Clean Air and Clean Water acts were both opposed by big business. The Americans With Disabilities act was opposed by big business. But it’s true: ever since 1979, it’s been harder and harder to do good by doing right for people without running into a heavy lobbying from some special interest and so genuflecting in their direction.

  5. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:43

    We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good.

    Around 60% of the American people support some form of single-payer. So it’s not even like it’s politically unpopular.

  6. fasteddie9318 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:44

    Nothing yet on the Schussel-Hannity scrap? Or is S,N! waiting until the popcorn runs out?

  7. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:49

    My fellow conservatives and feminists!

    Where’s the outrage?

    Men selectively abort ugly female babies

  8. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:50

    Nothing yet on the Schussel-Hannity scrap?

    STRAP-ONS!!! DOUBLE HEADED DILDOES!!!! MUSIC BY TOBY KEITH!!!!

  9. Pere Ubu said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:51

    Nothing yet on the Schussel-Hannity scrap? Or is S,N! waiting until the popcorn runs out?

    GODDAMN, there’s popcorm? What do I have to click on to download it?

    And not to be a troublemaker, but “let’s pass it and fix it later” was pretty much what happened with welfare reform back in – what, 1997? Which got passed and then everyone was too busy sniffing blue dresses to fix anything. Just sayin’.

  10. Teh Health Care Lobby said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:52

    Quit your whining! Can’t you just smell the Utopian euphoria in the air? Soon your precious poor people will get bailed out of their crap lives — just like my buddies in the banking industry… poor bastards — the bankers I mean. Now, not only have you proved to us (and yourselves) that you are powerless to get any sort of reform done that infringes on our RIGHTS to obscene profits, I hope you will let us rake in some for the next 10 years. I’ll be back — after my round of golf with friends in the military industrial lobby. Enjoy you’re “refrom” fools! We sure do!

  11. shargash said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:52

    Neutralize my ass. Obama didn’t neutralize those industries any more than the guy that served me a beer last night neutralized me.

    The word is SERVICED.

  12. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:52

    Nothing yet on the Schussel-Hannity scrap? Or is S,N! waiting until the popcorn runs out?

    Lordy-Lou, they’re eating their own over there… some choice schadenfreude:

    Why can’t us true conservatives recognized that all that time Hannity has spent in NYC has finally turned him into a limousine liberal he so despises.

    The truth is, if Sean is using the money to defeat democrats we should be glad because this also helps the troops and the morale of the troops. The more you criticize Sean the more you are really helping the enemy and helping defeat republicans.

    KevinJ – you’re a typical, ignorant neo-conservative sheep. You don’t do your own due diligence, instead you just listen to the blathering of your leaders. I guess facts really don’t matter, huh?

    This is even more delicious than the two zeppole I ate for the feast of San Giuseppe.

  13. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:53

    The word is SERVICED.

    Your bartender blew you?

    May I have that address, please?

  14. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:53

    STRAP-ONS!!! DOUBLE HEADED DILDOES!!!! MUSIC BY TOBY KEITH!!!!

    I hate you.

  15. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:54

    This is even more delicious than the two zeppole I ate for the feast of San Giuseppe.

    *raising Italian salute on his hand*

  16. Smiling Mortician said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:55

    Plus, distrust of government is higher than it was in his day (thanks for that, Nixon, may you rot in hell).

    *cough* Bush *cough*

    Around 60% of the American people support some form of single-payer. So it’s not even like it’s politically unpopular.

    My television begs to differ. OK, I lied. I don’t have television. But much of my internet also disagrees. People say they don’t trust government, and they actually mean it but for some pretty fucked-up reasons — and at the same time they say they don’t trust the media, but they don’t actually mean it because they don’t think SeanhannityGlennbeckalwaystellmethehonesttruthaboutlibliars actually constitutes “the media.” And meanwhile, “the media” reports the shit that oozes out of SeanhannityGlennbeck as if it fucking meant something rational in the known universe.

    Dammit, Brad. I was all smiley after Gavin’s post. Thanks a lot.

  17. Mysticdog said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:57

    Too much money at the top of the system. It fucks up everything. In this case, the wealthiest can pour so much surplus cash into our incredibly wasteful and increasingly stupid political system that the middle and lower class have almost no representation. To get elected you need money from people and companies that can max out limits. Oh, you need votes too, but you can already get by with the votes of maybe just 30% of voting age people. And many of those are easily manipulated and get just two choices to represent their ideologies.

  18. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:57

    I hate you.

    Your mom has a different opinion.

  19. Trilateral Chairman said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:58

    The Schlusseling is awesome. Wonder if Hannity will ever respond or if Schlussel will just quietly drop the subject.

  20. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:58

    The best thing about this Hannity kerfuffle is that it puts the lie to the whole “GOVERNMENT IS EEEVIL!!! PRIVATE CHARITY!!” bullshit.

  21. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:58

    Your mom has a different opinion.

    Don;t you mean “position”?

  22. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:58

    Wonder if Hannity will ever respond or if Schlussel will just quietly drop the subject wake up next to a severed horse’s head.

    Fixed

  23. Esteev said,

    March 19, 2010 at 20:59

    the Clean Air and Clean Water acts were both opposed by big business. The Americans With Disabilities act was opposed by big business

    Besides profits, what is big biz for? I said BESIDES PROFITS.

    with a dash of FYWP

  24. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:02

    Besides profits, what is big biz for?

    Barriers to entry, high tariffs, ease of regulation, stock manipulation….

  25. Oblio's Cap said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:02

    I’ve wondered why big business hasn’t strongly supported single payer, then I realized that they got tax breaks for taking jobs out of this country and didn’t have to pay for their employees’ health care. Plus, they used the job flight as a tool to bust the remaining unions.

    MUSIC BY TOBY KEITH!!!!

    Slightly better than that damned Lee Greenwood.

  26. OneMadClown said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:04

    Wonder if Hannity will ever respond or if Schlussel will just quietly drop the subject wake up next to a severed horse’s head. Which she will simply assume is breakfast, and happily devour.

    Double fixed.

  27. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:05

    MUSIC BY TOBY KEITH!!!!
    Slightly better than that damned Lee Greenwood.

    Keith’s actually been pretty vocal in support of Obama.

  28. flavortext said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:05

    We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good. If anyone knows what happened to that sort of political courage, I’d be glad to know.

    What are you, some kind of commu-marxist-socialist? This is the United States of America. Pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, hospitals and the business community ARE the public good!

  29. The Last Politician That The Goddamn Batman Trusted Was Harvey Dent, And Look How That Turned Out said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:05

    Yeah, and about FDR…

  30. Esteev said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:05

    Around 60% of the American people support some form of single-payer. So it’s not even like it’s politically unpopular.

    It is socially popular but I guess when politicians can’t raise the issue without some lobbyist knocking on his door reminding him where the bread is buttered or which side of his face the gun will be pointed at its “politically unpopular.”

    But $$ is being thrown at everything these days.

  31. Steerpike said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:06

    The current HCR incarnation is the 1957 Civil Rights Act. Flawed? yes, compromised? yes, inadequate? absolutely, but absolutely necessary to pass. It may take 5, 10, 20 years before we finally have a health care system worthy of a modern democracy, but when that day comes, we will point to this weekend’s vote as the point where we began to be serious. The current bill is a necessary battle; it is not the war.

  32. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:06

    Your mom has a different opinion.

    Oh yeah? Well, YOUR MOM has a different opinion!

    *zing*

  33. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:07

    When I voted for Hope’n’Change two years ago…

    There is no Liberal Jesus. I certainly expected better on the HCR front, but Barry’s always been a concensus-building pol, and he ran on huggy-feely-embrace-the-other-side-ism. He also ran on the public option and national health exchanges but wev.

  34. Esteev said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:08

    ><i.Barriers to entry, high tariffs, ease of regulation, stock manipulation….

    These are a few of my favorite things… when the stock spikes, when the bell rings, when I’m feeling riiiich….

  35. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:08

    Oh yeah? Well, YOUR MOM has a different opinion!

    Is there, perchance, video evidence available?

  36. OneMadClown said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:09

    Your mom has a different opinion.

    Oh yeah? Well, YOUR MOM has a different opinion!

    *zing*

    A pox on both your houses. Since I caught a pox from both of your mothers.

    Actor212 must have beat me to both of ‘em.

  37. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:09

    he ran on huggy-feely-embrace-the-other-side-ism.

    Are you suggesting he reached around the aisle?

  38. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:10

    Actor212 must have beat me to both of ‘em.

    Hey, I was cured!

    I mean, I’m sure I’m not that fast.

  39. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:10

    Is there, perchance, video evidence available?

    No, but I do have this newsletter…

  40. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:11

    Keith’s actually been pretty vocal in support of Obama lynching.

    Hung ‘em high for you. Although in FYTK’s defense, he’s only pro-lynching and not pro-lynching Obama.

  41. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:12

    I mean, I’m sure I’m not that fast.

    Mom says your twelve seconds at most. No wait, I mean T&U’s mom says that.

  42. N__B said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:12

    Why can’t us true conservatives recognized that all that time Hannity has spent in NYC has finally turned him into a limousine liberal he so despises.

    New York cooties! Get your New York cooties here! GET ‘EM WHILE THEY’RE HOT!

  43. cleek said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:12

    We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good

    name three.

  44. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:13

    Mom says your twelve seconds at most. No wait, I mean T&U’s mom says that.

    See? Not even enough time for the pox to transfer over!

    I mean, their watches must be fast.

  45. N__B said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:14

    We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good

    name three.

    Fiorello LaGuardia
    Teddy Roosevelt
    Bob LaFollette

    Or did you mean there within memory of the pre-geritol set?

  46. N__B said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:14

    “three,” too.

  47. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:19

    I’ve wondered why big business hasn’t strongly supported single payer, then I realized that they got tax breaks for taking jobs out of this country and didn’t have to pay for their employees’ health care. Plus, they used the job flight as a tool to bust the remaining unions.

    Well, by making sure that health benefits are tied to workplaces, they ensure that the serfs won’t just say “Take this job and shove it!”

    Overworked, scared-shitless workers are compliant workers.

  48. Troy said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:23

    Around 60% of the American people support some form of single-payer

    Half these people don’t vote.

    44M people are already on single-payer — Medicare.

    The tea party types have been banging pots & pans and have their friends at FOX and WSJ to push their message.

    Half the liberal side wants to punish the dems for not making the current compromise what they want it to be.

    No win situation.

  49. DAS said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:25

    We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good.

    Perhaps the problem is that taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good is, come election time, no longer popular with the public?

    If politicians were rewarded at the ballot box for taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good, it wouldn’t matter how much money those special interests had, etc. Rep. Public Good might be opposed by Candidate Special Interest who has gobs of money. But all Rep. Public Good would need to do is have enough money to buy a few 30 sec ads pointing out her voting record and who’s paying for Candidate Special Interest, et voila, Rep. Public Good gets re-elected.

    The problem is that Candidate Special Interest can manage to convince the voters that Rep. Public Good is an evil socialist in thrall to the special interests while only Candidate Special Interest can manage to keep everyday ‘Murkins safe from the terrists.

    If voters wouldn’t fall for the “Mayor Quimby released Side Show Bob from Prison, Vote Side Show Bob for mayor” argument, then our system would reward good behavior and better politicians would emerge. But since our system rewards bad behavior from politicians, we have the politicians we have.

  50. El Cid said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:27

    I guess no one ought look into the deals and buy offs cut with Southern segregationist fiefdom ruling Democrats in order for FDR to get the New Deal through.

    Also, don’t look too closely at the origins of the Social Security Act, as it was largely shaped based upon the interests of the owners of the largest corporations in 1920s America.

    Most people now think liberals and labor leaders created [Social Security] because they are the ones who defend it. But…the basic principles behind old-age insurance were created and actively supported by the corporate moderates who owned and controlled the biggest and most powerful corporations of the 1920s and 1930s, companies such as Standard Oil of New Jersey, General Electric, and Metropolitan Life Insurance

    …[T]he corporate moderates of the 1920s and 1930s did not act without the advice and help of the experts on social insurance they financed and directed in the fledgling think tanks of that day, especially the first industrial relations counseling firm in American history, Industrial Relations Counselors, Inc. (Kaufman 2003).

    They also worked with experts who were brought together by the Social Science Research Council, founded in 1923 by the leaders of the Laura Spelman Rockefeller Memorial Fund to generate new policies on a wide range of social, economic, and agricultural issues (Bulmer and Bulmer 1981; Karl 1974). Other charitable foundations that corporate moderates created to shape policy proposals, led by the Rockefeller Foundation and the Carnegie Corporation, further aided these efforts over the next decade and longer.

    The corporate moderates [i.e., not reactionary opponents to all reforms such as the National Association of Manufacturing types] and their allies insisted that government old-age insurance had to be based on three principles they developed during several years of experience with private pension plans, especially in conjunction with the major life insurance companies of the time (Klein 2003).

    First, the level of benefits must be tied to salary level, thus preserving and reinforcing the values established in the labor market.

    Second, unlike the case in many countries, there could be no government contributions from general tax revenues. Instead, there had to be a separate tax for old-age pensions, which would help to limit the size of benefits.

    Third, there had to be both employer and employee contributions to the system, which would limit the tax payments by the corporations.

    It was hugely controversial at first, not least because there had to be several years of taxing benefits out of peoples’ salaries before anyone was receiving any assistance.

    Social Security was designed entirely along the lines of what the largest corporations of the day wanted. And they entirely got their way.

    Clearly, Social Security was a sellout achieved through disgusting back door negotiations and deals with corporate and landowning and anti-labor whore politicians, but it was still a hugely significant achievement, and one pretty consistently improved and strengthened over time, until at least the last 10 years of late Reaganite attack.

  51. El Cid said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:28

    We also used to have political leaders who would be pressured by massive actions by the large segment of American workers who belonged to labor unions.

  52. bay of arizona said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:30

    Buying out all the stakeholders should have got us something more. I actually have a less of a problem with corporate whores and more of a problem with incompetent cheap whores. Doesn’t PhrMa own at least one republican? They couldn’t pull their leash?

    The chamber of commerce, along with Manufacturers, retailers, etc all supported the stimulus (which is why it was watered down). And yet these powerful lobbyists could not get a single R vote?

    Just like now, they don’t want to get it passed. They want Republicans to win and let them play at being populist. Democrats get the worst of all worlds – no bipartisanship, no progressive policies, no public support. And Dems don’t seem to care.

    Christ these people are idiots.
    FDR, 1936

    Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me‹and I welcome their hatred.

    I should like to have it said of my first Administration that in it the forces of selfishness and of lust for power met their match. I should like to have it said of my second Administration that in it these forces met their master.

    And as far as the “first step” and foot in the door people – we already have medicare, and yet we are not able to expand that. What makes you think that we can expand anything we are doing now?

  53. Chris said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:31

    Yes, I also find it funny that the right is claiming vindication due to the fact that health care reform is so much less popular now than it was about a year ago. It doesn’t seem to have occurred to them that ObamaCare’s downward plunge in ratings coincides with Obama conceding to the right time and time again until we ended up with a bill less liberal than what Nixon introduced in 1974.

    Hell, as long as we’re reconciling, why not scratch this altogether and next week, pass a motion deleting the words “under 65″ from Medicare’s mandate? Seriously.

  54. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:32

    Clearly, Social Security was a sellout achieved through disgusting back door negotiations and deals with corporate and landowning and anti-labor whore politicians, but it was still a hugely significant achievement, and one pretty consistently improved and strengthened over time, until at least the last 10 years of late Reaganite attack.

    So it was passed, then improved.

    It was a very limited benefit at first, too, available only to employees in the railroad and some interstate commerce companies at first (the first SSI recipient got 17 cents. He retired the day after the bill took effect, and had paid in a nickel.)

    Over time, over the next decade, it was expanded and modified.

  55. Chris said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:32

    “We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good.”

    And some of them even used to be Republican. Teddy Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower… hell, even Lincoln would weep at the current state of not just the Republic but their dear party.

  56. Quaker in a Basement said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:35

    We used to have political leaders who would relish taking on unpopular special interests in the name of the public good.

    And it was so cool when those courageous leaders managed to get some form of universal coverage legislation passed, wasn’t it?

    Taking on unpopular special intersts is easy. Taking on powerful, wealthy special interests is another matter entirely.

  57. Pere Ubu said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:37

    I bet you guys are keeping all the popcorm for the big gay hamsters who power the site.

    bleah!

  58. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:39

    I bet you guys are keeping all the popcorm for the big gay hamsters who power the site.

    You don’t want to know about the butter…

  59. Ryan said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:40

    See, this post sums up all the reasons we may as well elect Murray Hill, Inc. to the Senate. Business already runs the joint, may as well make it official.

  60. shargash said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:43

    “I guess no one ought look into the deals and buy offs cut with Southern segregationist fiefdom ruling Democrats in order for FDR to get the New Deal through.”

    True. An example was the anti-lynching law that Roosevelt refused to support. But then African-Americans were a pretty unpopular special interest group, so maybe we should add Roosevelt to that list.

  61. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:45

    Look, no legislation of any positive consequence in this nation was ever passed without some healthy, forceful opposition that demanded and got concessions.

    Amen for that. I wouldn’t want to live in a country where everyone thinks homogenously and things are passed by unanimous vote.

    All we need is a level playing field and I’m sure, I damn sure, we don’t have one now, and probably never have.

  62. Chris said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:46

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/27/business/27care.html?_r=1&ex=1264482000&en=a7eae78f08ee9c65&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland

    FTR, I wouldn’t be surprised if most corporations (if not the health insurance industry) would welcome single-payer government health care. If they no longer had to pay for their employees’ health coverage, wouldn’t that mean more money available to them to invest elsewhere?

    Remember, the original business base for modern conservatism came because the unions were pressuring businesses to provide health care to their employees that the feds wouldn’t (which the big companies could afford without too much trouble but was more of a strain on small businesses). Not criticizing the unions here – just pointing out that single-payer’s actually good for most businesses especially the small ones, which in turn is good for the free-market system. In a rational world, it’d be a no-brainer.

  63. El Cid said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:51

    JEEBUS FREAKING CRIPES BUT CAN WE PLEASE STOP WITH THE COVERING UP OF ALL THE CHILD RAPING???

    PORTLAND, Ore. – The Boy Scouts of America has long kept an extensive archive of secret documents that chronicle the sexual abuse of young boys by Scout leaders over the years.

    The “perversion files,” a nickname the Boy Scouts are said to have used for the documents, have rarely been seen by the public, but that could all change in the coming weeks in an Oregon courtroom.

    The lawyer for a man who was molested in the 1980s by a Scout leader has obtained about 1,000 Boy Scouts sex files and is expected to release some of them at a trial that began Wednesday. The lawyer says the files show how the Boy Scouts have covered up abuse for decades.

    Good thing they didn’t hire none of them homo-sekshuls, otherwise some perverted stuff mighta gone on.

    Also, “The Perversion Files” has, I would assume, already been optioned for a XXX Sci-Fi takeoff film.

  64. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:53

    If they no longer had to pay for their employees’ health coverage, wouldn’t that mean more money available to them to invest elsewhere?

    After the tax burden, you mean? Yes. What they don’t pay now in premiums, they’d pay in taxes, but it would probably end up being less.

  65. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:54

    The money line from El Cid’s article:

    The Portland case centers on whether the Boy Scouts of America did enough to protect boys from Dykes.

  66. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:54

    JEEBUS FREAKING CRIPES BUT CAN WE PLEASE STOP WITH THE COVERING UP OF ALL THE CHILD RAPING???

    Or, you know, stop with the child raping altogether…

  67. El Cid said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:54

    FTR, I wouldn’t be surprised if most corporations (if not the health insurance industry) would welcome single-payer government health care. If they no longer had to pay for their employees’ health coverage, wouldn’t that mean more money available to them to invest elsewhere?

    The downside for big business of a single payer system would include that (a) it would make their work force much more mobile and less tied to working in a particular company or area, thus driving up labor bargaining power; and (b) it gets funny ideas in peoples’ heads that gubmit can do stuff.

    So, it’s a toss up for Big Biz.

  68. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:57

    Shorter Redstate: MOMMY THEY’RE BEING MEAN TO ME!!!!

  69. John D. said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:57

    Hope and Change? Bait and Switch is more like it.

  70. pedestrian said,

    March 19, 2010 at 21:58

    Good thing they didn’t hire none of them homo-sekshuls, otherwise some perverted stuff mighta gone on.

    I think that anytime you have an exclusively male organization that is outspokenly anti-gay, we can assume that there is some child raping going on.

  71. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:00

    I think that anytime you have an exclusively male organization that is outspokenly anti-gay, we can assume that there is some child raping going on.

    ::blink::

    One of the reasons I enjoy coming here is every so often, amidsts some of the funniest shit I’ll ever read, someone posts an insight like this.

    Thanks Ped!

  72. stryx said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:01

    1,000 Boy Scouts sex files

    I’m, um, interested in this, um, merit badge.

    Is there a newsletter or website I can give my ,um, friend?

    For science!

  73. Substance McGravitas said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:01

    MOMMY THEY’RE BEING MEAN TO ME!!!!

    Communist murderers are SLANDERING US.

  74. 77south said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:02

    Well, its a good thing the Boy Scouts have taken such a strong stance on excluding Atheists, or think of how much worse it would have been.

    /sarcasm

  75. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:02

    Shitty bill or not – given the number of times the wingtards have doubled down on HCR killing granny and eating babies, passing it is going to be HUGE. And given how much time has been spent by Dems stroking off Blue Dogs, centrist wafflers, Ben Nelson’s cornhusks and President Olympia Snowe – not passing is the kiss of death.

    So with financial regulatory reform being ground in the sausage factory right now, a major win for SOCIALESM! is sorely needed.

  76. InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:02

    Obama lied to us about a public option. He made a quid-pro-quo backroom deal with the pharmaceuticals industry that there’d be no drug importation, and he made a quid-pro-quo backroom deal with the health care industry that there’d be no public option.

    Fuck him, he’ll never get any more support. He was talking in public about the public option after he’d already torpedoed it with Rahm in private. Fuck him in the fucking ear. Asshole corrupt corporatist just like Bush. (Guess what? He also wants indefinite detention powers.)

    I’m done being betrayed. My political contributions have ended.

  77. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:03

    Shorter Redstate: MOMMY THEY’RE BEING MEAN TO ME!!!!

    HEY! We made it!

    Albeit all the fucking way down the page…guys, we have to work harder at making Irk Irksome shit his bed.

  78. InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:03

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/ny-times-reporter-confirm_b_500999.html

  79. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:05

    Albeit all the fucking way down the page…guys, we have to work harder at making Irk Irksome shit his bed.

    Judging by the post, the best way to do that is to join Twitter.

    *ahem*

  80. El Cid said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:06

    Or, you know, stop with the child raping altogether…

    Oh, you radical leftist liberal extremists and your pie in the sky fantasy utopia solutions.

  81. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:06

    Obama lied to us about a public option.

    He did not.

    He was quite clear during his campaign for President that any public insurance would, well, look exactly like what he got in the Senate bill.

  82. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:06

    Judging by the post, the best way to do that is to join Twitter.

    *ahem*

    It only goes to show that Twitter is for twits.

  83. Grace Nearing said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:06

    This is the United States of America. Pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, hospitals and the business community ARE the public good!

    Maybe it’s not Obama making deals with pharma and the insurance companies but the other way around, ie, Obama has the leverage because the for-profit healthcare system is set to implode in the next 5 or 10 years anyway. Another bubble splatter.

    We seem to be approaching all the points of diminishing returns. For-profit medical insurers took big hits during the economic meltdown on their own investment portfolios. Part of the response, in order to keep their own shareholders happy, was to raise premiums. The premiums are now too high for an astonishing number of middle-class Americans, who have stopped paying them in rapidly acclerating numbers — whether the insurance is through employers or not.

    And so the spiral down begins…

  84. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:08

    Grace,

    Don’t forget that the age of America’s population is increasing, so even people who are still paying premiums are going to be drawing more and more reimbursements from insurance companies.

  85. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:11

    It only goes to show that Twitter is for twits.

    You are such a curmudgeon.

  86. InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:12

    Glenn Greenwald with more on the Democrat’s perpetual rotating villain scam:

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/03/12/democrats

  87. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:12

    You are such a curmudgeon.

    I didn’t think you’d noticed

    *batting eyelashes*

  88. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:12

    Shorter Redstate: MOMMY THEY’RE BEING MEAN TO ME!!!!

    It’s a weird blend of “HELP, MOMMY!!!” and “THIS IS SPARTA!!!

    No quarter, indeed. These Cheeto-breathers are really something, with such bleats and blarts as The hell with all of them, The new rule should be no mercy, and no quarter. You can’t expect civil behavior from them, so there’s no reason to give these people any in return.

    Maybe one of them will pull a Tw00fie and threaten to Actor212′s ass again- that was sweet.

  89. InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:12

    >He did not.

    Did you read my links, apologist? He betrayed you and you’re sucking it up.

  90. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:13

    Uh… kick his ass, kick his ass.

    Sorry, on a sugar high…

  91. InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:14

    Hey actor212, maybe you had Rahm’s butt grinding into your face the first time, so I’ll post it again:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/ny-times-reporter-confirm_b_500999.html

  92. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:15

    Did you read my links, apologist?

    Yup.

    I also paid attention in 2008, and didn’t fall for his silky voice and clean neat appearance, dawg.

    I’m no apologist. I was a Hillbot. I support Obama because the choice was obvious. I do not regret that choice.

  93. laym said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:15

    I wouldn’t be surprised if most corporations (if not the health insurance industry) would welcome single-payer government health care

    And yet, through the Chamber of Commerce and its lobbying, they do not.

    A few years back, I thought the corps would start pushing for single payer. Showz ya what I knowz.

  94. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:16

    Glenn Greenwald with more on the Democrat’s perpetual rotating villain scam:

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/03/12/democrats

    I swear, no one around here reads my fucking links.

    AHEM.

  95. InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:16

    Don’t try to lie that he never said he supported one. WTF is it with you? You’re as bad as the denialist wingnuts. I hope your blind trust works out for you.

  96. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:17

    It’s a weird blend of “HELP, MOMMY!!!” and “THIS IS SPARTA!!!

    Right? Until recently, I never knew that there was such a thing as a belligerent asshole with a victim complex.

  97. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:17

    Don’t try to lie that he never said he supported one.

    Do you read what anyone else posts, or are you that blinded by the stick shoved so far up your ass its hit your optic nerve?

    Which part of “He was quite clear during his campaign for President that any public insurance would, well, look exactly like what he got in the Senate bill.” was above your reading level?

  98. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:18

    I never knew that there was such a thing as a belligerent asshole with a victim complex.

    Jonah Goldberg ring a bell?

  99. InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:18

    I also paid attention in 2008, and didn’t fall for his silky voice and clean neat appearance, dawg.

    Oh I see. So now it’s not that he didn’t lie to you, it’s just that you weren’t fooled. Oh, my mistake.

    Fuck you, clown. Way to move the goalposts.

  100. N__B said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:18

    THIS…IS…MOMMY!

  101. InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:19

    Way to move the goalposts, actor.

  102. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:20

    Jonah Goldberg ring a bell?

    I said “victim complex,” not “Oedipus complex.”

  103. InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:21

    >I also paid attention in 2008, and didn’t fall for his silky voice and clean neat appearance, dawg.

    Oh I see, so now it’s not that he didn’t lie, it’s that you weren’t fooled. I won’t bother with further replies, because apparently you can just edit reality whenever you want.

  104. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:22

    Way to move the goalposts, actor.

    He did not say “public option” at any point during any of the 2008 campaign. You can look it up, I suppose.

    Sorry for your damn luck.

  105. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:22

    THIS…IS…MOMMY!

    Ever see that episode of the new Dr. Who (the one with Christopher Eccleston and not my boyfriend) where nanobots turn everyone into a little child in a gas mask looking for his mother? That’s what right-wingers are like.

  106. InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:22

    “clean, neat” and “dawg” affectation. Nice way to try to tinge it with race there.

    What a fucking disgusting rhetorical move.

  107. N__B said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:24

    Ever see that episode of the new Dr. Who

    No. I have no problem with people who like it, just as I have no problem with people who like Star Trek. I do not belong to either group. Extremely.

  108. laym said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:25

    I for one will raise a glass tonight for IITCB’s late and lamented purity.

  109. InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:27

    He did not say “public option” at any point during any of the 2008 campaign.

    Notice that that is NOT what was claimed. The article refers to statements made in 2009.

    But then, you’re the one accusing people of not reading shit, you self-righteous dick.

  110. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:30

    No. I have no problem with people who like it, just as I have no problem with people who like Star Trek. I do not belong to either group. Extremely.

    I resent being lumped in with Star Trek fans, but I’ll get over it.

  111. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:30

    THIS…IS…MOMMY!

    MOMMY…IS…SPARTA!!

  112. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:30

    I for one will raise a glass tonight for IITCB’s late and lamented purity.

    Is that like being a “born-again virgin”?

  113. InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:31

    I’ve argued since August that the evidence was clear that the White House had privately negotiated away the public option and didn’t want it, even as the President claimed publicly (and repeatedly) that he did.

    Hey actor212, you gonna email Glenn so he corrects this? I mean, since you are so right and all.

  114. Steerpike said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:32

    Let me see if I’ve got IITCB’s argument right here: The HCR bill set to be voted on this weekend that is barely going to pass, if at all, is SO flawed, and SO MUCH a corporate sellout, that we should abandon Obama altogether, and go completely electorally Galt on the Democrats forever and ever times LMNI. If on the other hand, the Dems had stuck to their guns and demanded a bill with NO chance of passing, we would all feel better and have zero chance of passing even the most minimal HCR until your grandkids have grandkids. That about right?

  115. N__B said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:32

    MOMMY…IS…SPARTA!!

    MOMMIES…IS…LESBOS!

  116. mmy said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:35

    I wonder if there’s a bizarro site where wingnuts read all the liberal blogs and make snide comments and Photoshops about them. Because if so, they’re probably enjoying this thread as much as I’m enjoying the UberSchusselHanniKrieg.

  117. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:39

    *yawn* Boring non-reading-other-people’s-comments-in-the-thread purity troll is boring and not reading other people’s comments in the thread. And being pure.

  118. Pere Ubu said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:42

    MOMMIES…IS…LESBOS!

    If Mommy’s lesbo how’d we get here, HUH? HUH?

    Parthenogensis?

  119. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:43

    “clean, neat” and “dawg” affectation. Nice way to try to tinge it with race there.
    What a fucking disgusting rhetorical move.

    Then next time, son, I suggest you check your “apologist” at the door.

    You’re as funny as the right wing nutcases we mock here.

  120. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:45

    Hey actor212, you gonna email Glenn so he corrects this?

    Why should I? Glenn’s right. Obama talked about a public option in 2009.

    Again, if you can’t be bothered to pay attention to things as they happen, then your legitimacy in whiiiiiiiiiiiiining after the fact is minimal.

    And don’t whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine that I tricked you. You should have paid attention to what I wrote in the first place.

    Which is, of course, central to my point.

  121. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:46

    MOMMY…IS…SPARTA!!

    If it’s DKW’s mom:

    MOMMY…IS…SPURTIN’!

  122. Trilateral Chairman said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:46

    Arguing aside, I’m enjoying watching Andrew Stuttaford demolish Maggie Gallagher’s arguments (for those who have managed to forget, Gallagher is one of the humorless bigoted busybodies who opposes gay marriage).

  123. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:48

    If Mommy’s lesbo how’d we get here, HUH? HUH?

    Parthenogensis?

    You’re thinking of Athens.

  124. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:49

    You’re thinking of Athens.

    AthenA

  125. Substance McGravitas said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:51

    InsaneInTheCheneyBrain has been around here far longer than actor212 and is not a troll. Obama’s health plan prior to becoming president included a proposal for a new public option similar to what federal employees get.

  126. Hob said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:53

    I more or less agree with what Klein wrote and also what Brad wrote. But I don’t see how Brad gets what Brad wrote out of what Klein wrote.

    Specifically, if you look at Klein’s list of groups that either support the bill, or are “split” or “incoherent” but aren’t totally against it–
    1. pharma
    2. insurers
    3. the AMA [supports]
    4. hospitals
    5. labor
    6. “the business community”

    –it just doesn’t make sense to lump all of those groups together as “every major stakeholder and interest group in the country” and then claim that the living shit must have been bribed out of all of them, and that Obama should’ve tried harder to piss them off. Any industry leaders who have a lick of sense are fully aware that the status quo, whatever corrupt advantage they may have in it, is totally unsustainable. Any change that’s not so radical as to actually put them out of business, and that has a chance of addressing people’s needs enough to put them in a less guillotiney frame of mind, is a plus. The insurance industry has generally had less licks of sense than the rest and has kept hoping to squeeze blood from turnips, thus what Klein politely describes as their “incoherent” response. But hospitals and the AMA (even as reactionary as the latter is) have a considerable stake in trying something that may work. And it’s clear at this point that the Republicans have nothing to offer and would happily let everything keep going to shit. At some point enlightened self-interest does kick in for some people and reduces the need for bribery.

    Anyway, clearly there are bad compromises in the bill, and some of them are things that are reassuring to pharma and insurers. But I don’t see what that has to do with the other 2/3 of that list, or the claim that Obama is trying too hard to please absolutely everyone.

  127. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:54

    Obama’s health plan prior to becoming president included a proposal for a new public option similar to what federal employees get.

    Which is precisely what I said he did

  128. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:54

    InsaneInTheCheneyBrain has been around here far longer than actor212 and is not a troll.

    Okay, you’re right. But you kinda sorta have to admit he’s trolling a little.

  129. tsam said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:56

    The Schlusseling is awesome. Wonder if Hannity will ever respond or if Schlussel will just quietly drop the subject.

    Doubt if it will just go away. Hannity will have to take the strap on ass-to-mouth to fix this one, I’m thinking.

    Gawd, I’m sick. I need help.

  130. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 22:57

    Doubt if it will just go away. Hannity will have to take the strap on ass-to-mouth to fix this one, I’m thinking.

    *cry*

  131. pedestrian said,

    March 19, 2010 at 23:01

    I wonder if there’s a bizarro site where wingnuts read all the liberal blogs and make snide comments and Photoshops about them.

    You asked for it.

  132. Substance McGravitas said,

    March 19, 2010 at 23:04

    Which is precisely what I said he did

    Not at all.

  133. Substance McGravitas said,

    March 19, 2010 at 23:05

    But you kinda sorta have to admit he’s trolling a little.

    I’d check out the post at the top of the thread. If people want to be pissed at Obama that seems reasonable to me. Hope it doesn’t result in a Republican win come next election.

  134. InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,

    March 19, 2010 at 23:06

    I’m not trolling. I understand that campaign promises get abandoned often… just not used to them being abandoned beforehand, in a nakedly evil way.

    I’m white-hot fucking enraged that Obama would cynically pump an idea he’d already knifed in the back — an idea with massive public support — just for some campaign cash from the fucking industries that are strangling us. I hope that asshole looks in the mirror with haunting shame at what he has squandered.

    Jennifer wrote an eloquent comment here recently along these lines. I just can’t do it anymore. I can’t try to kick Lucy’s football any longer. The whole thing is fucking rigged. I’m not arguing for anybody else to do anything. I’m just anguished. It’s fucking over. I hope the whole edifice of society comes crashing the fuck down, because this is a joke.

  135. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 23:07

    Which is precisely what I said he did
    Not at all.

    So you’re saying a private insurance pool that people could buy from overseen by the government is, um, not the same thing as a private insurance pool that people could buy from overseen by the government?

    Um. Ooooooooooooooooookayyyyyyyyyyy!

  136. actor212 said,

    March 19, 2010 at 23:07

    I understand that campaign promises get abandoned often

    As I pointed out, he never broke a campaign promise, before you moved the goalposts. Again.

  137. TruculentandUnreliable said,

    March 19, 2010 at 23:11

    I’m white-hot fucking enraged that Obama would cynically pump an idea he’d already knifed in the back — an idea with massive public support — just for some campaign cash from the fucking industries that are strangling us.

    Oh, sorry. Now I realize that you’re in the state I was three weeks ago. It sucks. I punched things.

  138. Substance McGravitas said,

    March 19, 2010 at 23:24

    So you’re saying a private insurance pool that people could buy from overseen by the government is, um, not the same thing as a private insurance pool that people could buy from overseen by the government?

    Ahh, you’re pretty much right I suppose. It is, however, awfully nasty packaging.

  139. InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,

    March 19, 2010 at 23:29

    I wasn’t even referring to that, except in a general sense. But you got your little after-the-fact, misinterpreted dig in anyway. Feel better?

    Also, fuck you.

  140. urdsama said,

    March 19, 2010 at 23:52

    Umm, the present plan is not like the government plan…didn’t know fed employees had to buy health care. Though they got it with their job. Something called benefits.

    Unless we are all going to be employed by the government. Wheeeeee!!!

    The racial digs are kinda fucked up too…nice that people are being polite on the eve of this great step forward in US lawmaking!

  141. Substance McGravitas said,

    March 19, 2010 at 23:55

    didn’t know fed employees had to buy health care

    They actually kinda do. Government only pays 75% of the premium.

  142. urdsama said,

    March 19, 2010 at 23:57

    Sounds like the corporate sector, depending on the plan. So pretty much like everyone else, it is a benefit of being employed.

    Where can I sign up?

  143. Substance McGravitas said,

    March 19, 2010 at 23:59

    We shall see. Good luck.

  144. another jim said,

    March 20, 2010 at 0:39

    Here’s what happened to that form of political courage:

    It happened, it worked, it resulted in unparalleled political success for the last President who championed it, and this so freaked out every single person involved that they are scared shit to this day.

    The guy who did it was FDR, a rich man from the highest of elite classes who had the example of a well-meaning and previously successful progressive (for his time). FDR then had the personal experience of being struck and nearly crushed by polio – which I think helped him realize that, in general, people can be struck low simply by random chance.

    That is, that sometimes people are brought down after doing *everything right* – and thus, that it is not the poor’s fault they are poor, but it IS the government’s fault if they can do something but instead do nothing.

    THIS is the populist no one wants to talk about – because he won an unparalleled FOUR ELECTIONS busting his ass for the common man. And even doing other sleazy political, even power-grabbing things along the way – because his bottom line was his commitment that no one would starve to death in a country he ran.

    For some reason, I think this freaks the hell out of people. If politicians lived this way now, they would have to actually take responsibility for their leadership – and not simply give up, walk away from the table and blame everyone else. All because they’re too lazy to even force the opposition to ACTUALLY filibuster.

    Woo.

    This piece of shit health care bill should and (I guess) hopefully will pass – but for fuck’s sake. I’m at a loss as to what can be done to force the Democrats to do better. I hoped Obama was FDR, but it looks like he’s LBJ – which is still better than Nixon, Reagan or either Bush. But only by degrees.

  145. Ezra in the hizzy said,

    March 20, 2010 at 3:54

    I bet you guyz are shocked I haven’t weighed in on this post yet. Well, fresh of my mad linked analysis I been livin it up down in the bahamas. You know, tappin in to the trust fund a bit.

    Anyhow. No problez on the ole health care front. Its all good. Most of the peeps should be covered.

  146. Kill Surf City said,

    March 20, 2010 at 5:03

    This piece of shit health care bill should and (I guess) hopefully will pass – but for fuck’s sake. I’m at a loss as to what can be done to force the Democrats to do better.

    Greenwald makes the case, pretty convincingly, “not much.” The Progressives don’t have a bargaining position. http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/03/18/progressives/index.html

    Rahm’s “Fuck you, progressive retards” position has more/less been vindicated.

    I agree with T&U (and Greenwald, and Taibbi) that the odds of improving this bill are slim to none because, again, there’s no incentive to do so and because deals have apparently already been made with big pharm.

    When I voted for Obama, I always understood I was casting a vote for “better than nothing, barely.” This legislation lives up to those robust hopes! It seems like I’m the only person I know right now who hasn’t been sorely disappointed, because my position going in was “Fuck you you fucking smirking corporatist slightly-lesser-of-two-evils motherfucker, here’s my vote.”

  147. Anna Nicole Sith said,

    March 20, 2010 at 14:59

    Jeepers! I guess that creating industry-wide consensus is a sell out. Who’d a thunk?

    I guess then that our entire form of government is bad, too.

    Did you all sleep through civics class, or didn’t you get one? Maybe you’ve never seen one of those cute cartoons about how a bill becomes law?

    This kind of everybody gets something, but nobody gets exactly what (s)he wants has only been the essential manner of governance going back to the English Parliament, but I guess you were too busy watching Scooby Doo?

    Must be fun to jerk off to fantasies of an American government that never was. Kinda like the teabaggers, now that I think about it.

    Which kind did you “progressives” want: Oolong, Pekoe or Earl Grey?

  148. oakland said,

    March 20, 2010 at 19:16

    “thanks for that, Nixon, may you rot in hell”

    Nixon looks like a boyscout next to the current bunch. Imagine a time when a B &E was a big enough scandal to take down a President. Then look at today: outing CIA agents, against the law to negotiate for lower drug prices, drug imports banned, lied into two wars for oil, war profiteering, torture, Wall Street’s collapse, and today they get pensions and bonuses.

    If this insurance boondoggle is the best Democrats can do with a mandate and a majority, let em lose.

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    April 30, 2011 at 4:09

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