5
Blessed Are the Blastocysts
ABOVE: Giovanni Boldini, Portrait of Count
Ramesh de Ponnurusquieu (1897)(oil on canvas)
Blastocyst-worshiping radical Catholicist Ramesh Ponnurru is over at America’s Shittiest Website™ in full-metal-chasuble mode, slinging his rosary at everyone in sight, because the Center for American Progress had the utter temerity to suggest that legislation that would make health care more available might actually be consistent with Catholic theology. Apparently when Jesus healed the sick, he asked for an insurance card first and extracted a promise from all women that he healed that they wouldn’t run out and get an abortion afterwards.
Naturally Ponnuru’s biggest concern is that health care reform might facilitate access to abortions, and he is perfectly willing to see actual human beings die to protect the lives of some innocent blastocysts. In order to get to that result he’s willing to say just about anything, including this splendidly retarded piece of incomprehensibility:
And when the bishops say that all people should have “ready access to quality, comprehensive, and affordable health care,” that doesn’t even mean that they have endorsed universal coverage, let alone a specific legislative attempt to come closer to it. Still less does it mean that Catholic social teaching requires us to support that attempt.
Don’t bother reading that again and trying to make more sense of it on the second go-round. It’s just as preposterous on subsequent readings. According to Ramesh, just because the Bishops say that all people should have health care doesn’t mean that the Bishops are arguing for universal coverage. This might make sense, I suppose, if the universe in universal coverage includes pets and farm animals. Moreover, according to Ramesh, just because Bishops might say that health care is good doesn’t mean that Catholics need to support health care. Of course, when the Bishops say that abortion is bad that is a mandate to oppose abortion. It obviously can be confusing at times to be a radical Catholicist.
bondwooley said,
December 5, 2009 at 16:13
Here’s a fresh idea. Let’s just scrap health care and take a page from the Babe Ruth playbook – hit a home run for one sick person at a time and keep our fingers crossed:
http://bit.ly/xPZHh
(satire)
LC said,
December 5, 2009 at 16:19
It’s not that hard to be a catholicist: Everything the Church has a half-decent position on (death penalty, random wars), you ignore. Everything the Church is, for all practical purposes, on the side of evil (abortion, gays), you declare a non-negotiable moral imperative.
Rightwingsnarkle said,
December 5, 2009 at 16:19
Does this shithead have a uterus? Do the bishops?
I didn’t think so.
In that case, I have no interest in hearing anything either might have to say that even tangentially touches on the subject of abortion.
Dagoril said,
December 5, 2009 at 17:22
Their church is clearly a force for evil in the world. Wonder if putting a former Nazi in charge of it had anything to do with it? Nah, couldn’t be related at all!
It’s amazing that the Bishops found time to think about abortion though, considering how full their schedule is with raping altar boys. Guess they’re some real multitaskers over there!
Rusty Shackleford said,
December 5, 2009 at 17:55
Bonnaroo demands the bishops be flogged
actor212 said,
December 5, 2009 at 18:02
When Jesus was alive, governments were there to enrich the governors. If Jesus had been able to contemplate a government “Of the people, by the people and for the people,” he would have DEMANDED universal healthcare, universal welfare availability and a 100% marginal tax rate.
These heathens…
dex said,
December 5, 2009 at 18:04
tintin, please make it yr new year’s rez to never stop photoshopping these old oil paintings. ever.
The More Things Change... said,
December 5, 2009 at 18:05
“When Jesus was alive, governments were there to enrich the governors. ”
This is different from now, how?
cat_named_zoe said,
December 5, 2009 at 18:13
In a sensible world, the Church would offer some kind of health coverage as a social good, Catholicare or something. Gold Cross.
actor212 said,
December 5, 2009 at 18:14
This is different from now, how?
It was in the time before Democrats.
N__B said,
December 5, 2009 at 18:16
In a sensible world, the Church would offer some kind of health coverage as a social good, Catholicare or something.
GoldOccupied Cross.Fqqst.
Stephen said,
December 5, 2009 at 18:16
Apparently when Jesus healed the sick, he asked for an insurance card first and extracted a promise from all women that he healed that they wouldn’t run out and get an abortion afterwards.
I love you, Tintin.
Pere Ubu said,
December 5, 2009 at 18:19
Apparently when Jesus healed the sick, he asked for an insurance card first and extracted a promise from all women that he healed that they wouldn’t run out and get an abortion afterwards.
I see Ramesh has been getting author’s drafts from Conservopedia’s Bible-rewriting project.
Stephen said,
December 5, 2009 at 18:37
I see Ramesh has been getting author’s drafts from Conservopedia’s Bible-rewriting project.
How’s that going, by the way?
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
December 5, 2009 at 18:42
How’s that going, by the way?
Memory holes have been banned for promoting badthought.
~
The More Things Change... said,
December 5, 2009 at 18:54
“Dollar Bill” Jefferson, Marion Berry, the former Mayor of Detroit, Chris Dodd..sure, they care nothing more than the welfare of the people! Please.
Government is by nature corrupt, so as the Founders point out it must be kept within it’s “constitutional chains”.
Arky said,
December 5, 2009 at 18:56
Shorter R.Pornpayperview: PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE ALTAR!
Snowwy said,
December 5, 2009 at 19:01
Somehow I think this isn’t the same “More” we’re used to hearing around these parts.
OTB said,
December 5, 2009 at 19:03
what Dex said.
D. Sidhe said,
December 5, 2009 at 19:06
It’s amazing that the Bishops found time to think about abortion though, considering how full their schedule is with raping altar boys. Guess they’re some real multitaskers over there!
Of course they have time to think about abortion. They rape girls, too. And sleep with adult women in their congregations, perhaps even more commonly.
Innocent Blastocysts said,
December 5, 2009 at 19:09
Ramesh Ponnurru touched us inappropriately.
Mr. Wonderful said,
December 5, 2009 at 19:16
“Don’t bother reading that again and trying to make more sense of it on the second go-round.”
You know me so well, Tintin.
Wyatt Watts III said,
December 5, 2009 at 19:18
Uh oh, I have a feeling Ramesh will soon receive a scolding letter from Pope Ratzi… for failing to somehow work the gays into his screed.
Arky said,
December 5, 2009 at 19:29
Alternate shorter: Forgive the fathers. They know not what they do.
Lady Doctor Missus Mommy Marita said,
December 5, 2009 at 19:41
The Dash Board: Harvard baby is bored silly by the rantings and ravings of that Princeton idiot Ponnuru.
Total Dick-Head said,
December 5, 2009 at 19:48
I love Catholic assholes….
kate said,
December 5, 2009 at 19:57
Oh the good old days! When good families castrated one son for the choir, sent the other to the priesthood and gave one daughter to the convent.
Oh the good old days! When the womb was a vessel for the church, when the Vatican had its rightful position as government cabinet and stocks held heretics, not principle and interest.
Jennifer said,
December 5, 2009 at 20:11
Dash is quite the dashing young man, even mid-yawn.
I especially loved the last pic, his “Dramatic Chipmunk” pose.
The Goddamn Batman Likes To Say That Ezekiel Thing From Pulp Fiction Once In A While said,
December 5, 2009 at 20:12
Matthew:
Ramesh:
Breathless said,
December 5, 2009 at 20:16
tintin, this one is just so-o-o-o-o perfect
Damn straight, Rightwingsnarkle: no uterus, no pontificating.
I think I’ll have kate’s “good old days” reminiscences [jeez, did I spell that right without dual brain and finger cramps?] embroidered on an altar cloth for our local Catholic parish. Maybe displayed first when one of their hate groups are picketing our local Planned Parenthood clinic….
Alex said,
December 5, 2009 at 20:20
The Goddamn Batman’s got the right idea. It must take an incredible amount of cognitive dissonance, combined with an incredible amount of not-actually-reading-the-book-you-claim-to-support, for people like Pnurnur to call themselves Catholic.
Joe Max said,
December 5, 2009 at 21:09
I can respect an anti-abortion Catholic who is also anti-war and anti-death penalty, and supports anti-poverty programs, because they’re a) consistent and b) adhere to ALL of the tenets of the religious sect they profess to believe in.
Unfortunately for them, the Catholic Church has absolutely zero moral authority in matters of human sexuality.
Joe Max said,
December 5, 2009 at 21:18
I actually can take a libertarian stance on the idea that, just because Jesus is quoted as saying that helping the poor and hungry is a moral imperative, that it’s attendant on the government to do it. Not that the government shouldn’t have anti-poverty programs, but using religious teaching to justify it is a slippery slope I don’t want to go down. There are many solid, pragmatic reasons for the existence of a strong social safety net without dragging religion into it.
That being said, the hypocrisy is that Ram-ass has no compunction about demanding that the government enforce his religion’s moral law against abortion, while balking at the idea that the same government shouldn’t also enforce the other things Catholics profess to believe in, e.g what the Goddamn Batman quoted above.
Josh Fulton said,
December 5, 2009 at 21:37
EU votes to allow US to monitor all its citizens’ bank transactions
http://joshfulton.blogspot.com/2009/12/post-libson-treaty-eu-votes-to-allow-us.html
Smut Clyde said,
December 5, 2009 at 21:53
demanding that the government enforce his religion’s moral law against abortion, while balking at the idea that the same government shouldn’t also enforce the other things Catholics profess to believe in
Now that Rannuru’s hypocrisy has been summed up so starkly, can we move on to the random gibberish stage of the thread?
N__B said,
December 5, 2009 at 22:01
can we move on to the random gibberish stage of the thread?
And that’s my cue…
Dr. BDH said,
December 5, 2009 at 22:15
Batman:
That eternal punishment for the goats, did it involve Mickey Kaus?
Done Wid Dat said,
December 5, 2009 at 22:16
The “Holy” Roman Church of parasitic pederasts can shove it where the sun don’t shine (except they prolly already do that on a daily basis & relish it). The so-called “church” is in it solely to make money, plus keep women in their place (preferably on our knees sucking the priests off when they feel like a break from buggering the kiddies). Worship of the blastocysts is just another means of keeping women barefoot, pregnant and out of sight, while producing new kids to rape.
In theory (yes, I know: how laughable of me to state this in mixed company), our founding fathers (who righties love to idolize, or so they say) wanted separation of church and state in our so-called “democracy.” So where does this gibbering buffoon (along with all the other dressed up to the nines Catholic Bishops) come off with having any kind of authority – either legal or (cough choke) moral – over me & thee?
HCR has certainly made it transparent how much of a strangle-hold various “religious” groups have on our legislative process. If they’re not paying taxes, then STFU. On second thought: STFU anyway.
Sirius Lunacy said,
December 5, 2009 at 22:21
can we move on to the random gibberish stage of the thread?
Ok, how about a love song for the computer age.
N__B said,
December 5, 2009 at 22:24
Ok, how about a love song for the computer age.
I’m stuck at work, which means I’m listening to dinosaur rock, so your comment leads immediately to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZcarsKBTv8
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
December 5, 2009 at 22:31
Needs YALE shirt. But very cute, DMM!
~
Teh Bishops said,
December 5, 2009 at 22:48
Us too.
Steerpike said,
December 5, 2009 at 22:48
Ot, but did anyone see the Write like Sarah Palin Contest at Slate? Honestly think the Sadly! veterans here could have done as well, or better, too. Also
tigrismus said,
December 5, 2009 at 22:56
Satan and I once played checkers for Ponnuru’s soul, and you have no idea how hard it is to lose checkers when both players are trying to. Satan, unfortunately, was the better cheat, so he lost, but it turns out Ramesh is soulless so old S. and I had a huge laugh about the bullets we’d been sweating.
teh Universal Schlong said,
December 5, 2009 at 22:57
Ya got some holy sacrament rolling down your chin there Ramesh.
Stephen said,
December 5, 2009 at 22:58
Ot, but did anyone see the Write like Sarah Palin Contest at Slate? Honestly think the Sadly! veterans here could have done as well, or better, too. Also
That shit was awesome, but now I kind of want to actually name my child Tron.
Steerpike said,
December 5, 2009 at 23:02
That shit was awesome, but now I kind of want to actually name my child Tron.
I am still sticking with “Grift” for best Next-Palin-Baby name
Paul Mantarakis said,
December 5, 2009 at 23:34
Most Americans will oppose universal health care because it provides abortions, because it takes resources from us and gives it to racially inferior types, and because it encourages abuse by the poor and sick, and the government tells my doctor what to do? I won’t pay for it, no way.
Steerpike said,
December 5, 2009 at 23:34
Oh shit, I killed the thread. I’m so sorry…
Steerpike said,
December 5, 2009 at 23:44
If only there had been a government plan to promote abortions before Paul Mantakaris was
bornhatched, the world would have one less troll to deal with…Lady Doctor Missus Mommy Marita said,
December 5, 2009 at 23:56
The thread lives!!!
[or is it now a zombie thread?]
Paul Mantarkis said,
December 5, 2009 at 23:58
The government telling my doctor what to do? Fuck that, if I want to shut my pregnant bitch up with some Thalidomide, you Socialist fucksticks and your “messiah” can’t stop me.
cat_named_zoe said,
December 6, 2009 at 0:05
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment…”
I believe those would be those on our Right.
Pere Ubu said,
December 6, 2009 at 0:09
The government telling my doctor what to do? Fuck that
Yeah, after all, that’s your insurance bureaucrat’s job to do that. Fucking government, trying to put all those hard-working bean counters at Blue Cross and Aetna out of work.
Super Sarah, the Power Palin! said,
December 6, 2009 at 0:16
Up in Alaska, when little Kludge would stub his toe on a tundra shrub or Dillingham would fall off the snow machine, I’d just kiss that boo-boo all better! Now the Democrats are saying the government should be kissing boo-boos? No way, Joe-say!
Darth Revan said,
December 6, 2009 at 0:30
Up in Alaska, when little Kludge would stub his toe on a tundra shrub
Isn’t Kludge a continent in Pratchett’s Discworld?
Big Bad Bald Bastard said,
December 6, 2009 at 0:33
Now that Rannuru’s hypocrisy has been summed up so starkly, can we move on to the random gibberish stage of the thread?
Now, now- you have your own place for the gibberish threads… and it’s a dandy!
Ok, how about a love song for the computer age.
I was thinking more along these lines, but the imagery in your video was better (although what was up with that Debbie Schlussel cameo?).
Andrew N.P. said,
December 6, 2009 at 0:35
Yup. The Republicans are stage left, which is the same as house right. It’s how they sit in Congress. Must be confusing for a new Speaker or Pro Tem. Not so confusing for Jesus, because, y’know, omniscient, but still.
Rev. Dada Grind said,
December 6, 2009 at 0:49
Odd how these religious folks are more anti-abortion than THE BIBLE.
Arky said,
December 6, 2009 at 1:01
Klatch. (And yes, I do know I’m the Compleat Geek.)
zombie rotten mcdonald said,
December 6, 2009 at 1:25
[or is it now a zombie thread?]
Sorry, I have no interest in a thread featuring Ponnuru.
N__B said,
December 6, 2009 at 1:27
Zombie threads => zombie duds ~~ zombie dudes = 80s nostalgia.
Logic is a wonderful thing.
Big Bad Bald Bastard said,
December 6, 2009 at 1:31
I was going to make some comment about Ponnuru being the textbook case of “Convert’s Zeal”, but Ponnuru beat me to it.
I, myself considered myself a “Shane MacGowan Catholic” until Ratzi became Pope, when I converted to apatheism.
Darth Revan said,
December 6, 2009 at 1:55
Klatch. (And yes, I do know I’m the Compleat Geek.)
I know, and no more so than the rest of us.
My theory is that Sarah Palin can see the Disc from her house with the help of the Necrotelecomnicon and the powers of her dark master C’hulagen.
a concerned citizen said,
December 6, 2009 at 2:51
can we move on to the random gibberish stage of the thread?
Santa, No!
Smut Clyde said,
December 6, 2009 at 3:03
Portrait of Count Ramesh de Ponnurusquieu
IIRC, Count de Ponnurusquieu was the model for the central character in Huysman’s novel “Against Reason”, the sequel to “Against Nature”.
justme said,
December 6, 2009 at 3:06
Oh, my.
After looking at that pic again, I just realized that Ponnuru is making the Universal Douchebag Face, and that it’s not part of the shoop.
justme said,
December 6, 2009 at 3:09
Seriously, Santa. No.
Andrew N.P. said,
December 6, 2009 at 3:13
Also known as Blue Steel, Le Tigre, Ferrari, and Magnum.
Arky said,
December 6, 2009 at 3:14
I thought it was the universal Ready to Take Communion from the Special Pocket in Father Grope’s Cassock face.
Big Bad Bald Bastard said,
December 6, 2009 at 3:20
So, what type of douchebag is Ponnuru?
Big Bad Bald Bastard said,
December 6, 2009 at 3:23
Michelle Malkin explained?
Smut Clyde said,
December 6, 2009 at 3:24
Seriously, Santa. No.
Get thee behind me, Santa!
Big Bad Bald Bastard said,
December 6, 2009 at 3:28
Get thee behind me, Santa!
On second thought, stay where I can see you!
M. Bouffant said,
December 6, 2009 at 3:30
Funny you should mention it: moi, as
corporate Santa, 15-20 years ago.
Dragon-King Wangchuck said,
December 6, 2009 at 3:31
AOOGAH! AOOOOGGGAAHH! RED ALERT RED ALERT RED ALERT!!!
Run for the hills, the gauntlet has been thrown down. Claw your eyes out now before you are laid to waste as collateral damage in horrible YouTube War LXIX!!
Jennifer said,
December 6, 2009 at 3:56
You Tube War LXIX ends in victory, as do all Eschaton You Tube challenges, with this.
Substance McGravitas said,
December 6, 2009 at 4:01
First they came for the battle dragons, and I did not speak out because I was not a battle dragon;
Then they came for the walking walls, and I did not speak out because I was not a walking wall;
Then they came for the emberlings, and I did not speak out because I was not an emberling;
Then they came for the athasian sloths, and I did not speak out because I was not an athasian sloth;
Then they came for me – and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Elephant Butte said,
December 6, 2009 at 4:06
AOOGAH! AOOOOGGGAAHH! RED ALERT RED ALERT RED ALERT!!
Is it too early for a Santa theme?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL5enzD4120
g said,
December 6, 2009 at 4:09
Jeebus, that video!! It encapsulates the entire Conservative mind-set. “Our fill-in-the-blank is better than your fill-in-the-blank.”
“We like X_______ because it makes libs mad.”
That’s the sum total of their values.
That and the auto-tune – Jesus Christ, no one who uses an autotune should call himself a musician without blushing.
M. Bouffant said,
December 6, 2009 at 4:15
no one who uses an autotune should call himself a musician without blushing
Is there no shame? Where is the stigma?
commie atheist said,
December 6, 2009 at 4:22
Where’s Coach Urban Meyer? Just wondering: did Tim Tebow not pray enough for a victory, or what? Is gawd testing him? What gives?
Catholic Saul said,
December 6, 2009 at 4:34
In excelsius deo, gentlemen.
Arky said,
December 6, 2009 at 4:38
I really hate it when someone fills a bath tub with water, mixes in six cups of salt, hops in and then pulls their radio in there with them.
And don’t even get me started on those homophobic, racist assholes who drink Drano!
N__B said,
December 6, 2009 at 4:39
In Drano, veritaaaa…..
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist said,
December 6, 2009 at 4:43
“We like X_______ because it makes libs mad.”
Then you must love Obama!
FDL is turning into a real poutrage site – but at least they seem to have shaken off the “Frist! Fitz!” crap.
justme said,
December 6, 2009 at 4:51
Yeesh. It’s enough to make ya weep.
Twenty years from now, the sound of autotune will be looked at similarly to the way the DX-7 has been blamed, not undeservedly, for ruining the 80s musically.
What did it for me was the end, “Full song available” at his itunes, and then a copyright notice. Sure it gives “original writters” [sic] credit, but come on. Does anybody think he actually went and got permission to butcher those lyrics?
Back in the day the joke was about McHippies and Trustafarians, “What’s mine is mine. What’s yours is mine.”
Elephant Butte said,
December 6, 2009 at 4:51
Okay, fine.
.44 Blues
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkF7aiiLVZc
jim said,
December 6, 2009 at 4:54
Ecccccchhumenical.
Just remember seeing this git on Colbert & getting the sense that Teh Grand Guru O’ Truthiness was sort of chagrined by how easy it was to chump him with his own logicless bullshit – & how cheerfully he whored himself into “playing along/having fun with it” … you know what They© say: once a tool always a tool.
You Tube War LXIX ends in victory
“This” link = one of my favorite comic-strips EVAR!
jim said,
December 6, 2009 at 5:12
is can it be aleatory annelid rawk solo tiem now plox?
Elephant Butte said,
December 6, 2009 at 5:26
More info:
I tested the circuit on my tongue countless times to fine tune the voltage/current ratio, which is the closest thing on the human body that approximates the worm’s resistance and nerve agglomeration.
Smut Clyde said,
December 6, 2009 at 5:45
You know what else DKW tested on his tongue?
ron said,
December 6, 2009 at 5:53
this jesus healthcare “cartoon” was going around awhile ago.
Smut Clyde said,
December 6, 2009 at 6:00
You Tube War LXIX ends in victory, as do all Eschaton You Tube challenges, with this.
Jennifer is trying to get banned.
J Neo Marvin said,
December 6, 2009 at 6:15
You know what else DKW tested on his tongue?
Hitler?
Dave said,
December 6, 2009 at 8:07
I have to say, both as a ‘recovering Catholic’ and as a lurker and supporter of this site, that while yes, I understand the serious nature of the Church’s handling of the pederasty horrors of the last decades, and am aware of the breadth of the Church’s fuck-ups throughout history (some of them, anyway… enough to get me to stop being a Catholic)…. all that said, there’s a ~lot~ of fucking anger at the Catholic Church around here.
The ‘Church’ fucks up all the time, to serious detriment at times. No fucking shit.
It’s a big fucking bureaucracy, no? It makes mistakes. Big bureaucracies do. Purity Troll might say otherwise, but whatever mistakes have been made on whatever level in the past four-hundred years or so (say, arbitrarily), let us not all forget it was the same Vatican that I personally am not comfortable with telling me who it’s ok to have sex with… that same Vatican was behind and supportive of the same ‘Liberation Theology’ that Right-leaning pundits even today decry as Communist and subversive, that ‘Liberation Theology’ that maintained the equality and dignity of man, that led to so many labor organizing movements and human rights actions, movements for the poor, movements toward education and such…
Latin America was a real bloodbath in the 80′s, especially so (though yes, it’s been for awhile) because Americans felt threatened (or had their economic interests threatened) by this movement. While it was a Jesuit kinda thing, the Liberation Theology was given the go-ahead by the Vatican, ok?
Oh whatever. Fuck you.
Grow up.
The Church has done some official shit that really sucked, as in resulted in a LOT of deaths, especially coming into the Renaissance. It’s turned a blind-eye to a lot of shit that should have been handled differently, no shit. It’s been around so long, in fact, that it’s not ~just a fucking church`, ok? It’s a political entity. Anything that can claim it’s been around through several eras of history would be, no?
Fuck you.
I dunno.
I’m no apologist for the Church, whatever you say. As I said, I’m no Catholic. I am a student of history, and yeah, I guess I’m a little easier on them than I might be otherwise given my upbringing, but fuck you. YOU’RE not biased ~at all~ in things like this? Bullshit.
Like I said, I’m no apologist.
Judging the Catholic Church on it’s fuck-ups is fair, but not at the expense of it’s contributions. If you think otherwise you’re a fucking Purity Troll…..
… and that’s the substance of my rant. For awhile now I’ve listened to quite a bit of this shit, and I’m tired of it. It’s Purity Troll calibur shit. Isn’t that what we make fun of around here?
Enough with it. Some of the fucking commentors here need to get the fuck over it.
Thanks.
Rant over.
J Neo Marvin said,
December 6, 2009 at 8:24
I seem to recall John Paul II, the popular, cuddly Pope everyone thinks fondly of now, being vehemently opposed to Liberation Theology. I think Liberation Theology was a fine movement, but to point to it as an example of Catholicism doing something right is to gloss over how opposed it was by the church itself. The actual history does not reflect well on Catholicism by any means.
Dave said,
December 6, 2009 at 8:31
Look, I’d like to say this:
First, yeah I’m drinking, so forgive the length of my previous rant.
Second, The Catholic Church has yes done some fucked up things in the past, and branches of it probably continue to do so right this minute. We here don’t castigate Islam as-a-whole nor tolerate the kind of vitriol we see here towards the ‘Church’. Jokes and shit are fine, but when one reads a post filled with invective toward priests sucking and fucking kids and shit… I mean can we be honest? There’s a real double-standard around here that doesn’t seem to be commented on.
If it’s not cool to be hateful toward a religion based off of abuses by some of its followers or priests/Imams/what-have-you’s, then it’s not cool, no?
Jokes are fine, dudes. I just feel like someone needs to point out some of the hate around here. Maybe it’s been done and I wasn’t reading those days, but fuck, man. Some of these posters are around the bend with it.
So to those and their defenders, to those double-standard-bearers: fuck you.
Just Alison, aka Snail Joust said,
December 6, 2009 at 9:30
Dave, as I recall (and I may be mistaken), the Vatican was not at all supportive of Liberation Theology. Partly because of the Marxist thread, partly because of the general anti-authoritarian flavour: it threatened the established hierarchy of a very old and rigid social structure.
It seems there’s a fundamental difference between Catholicism and Islam, which is that Catholicism has a single hierarchical tree, where Islam can have many ‘authorities’. Not that this has any bearing on the rightness of the message, but it does have a bearing on the responsibility that the religious hierarchy holds for various atrocities.
FWIW, the Liberation Theology movement seems similar in that respect to the Islamic structure.
davek said,
December 6, 2009 at 13:52
I’m not sure just how to say this… so I’ll say it with a song!
All religions make me wanna throw up
All religions make me sick
All religions make me wanna throw up
All religions suck
They all claim that they have the truth
That’ll set you free
Just give ‘em all your money and they’ll set you free,
Free for a fee
Does that clear things up for you, Dave?
actor212 said,
December 6, 2009 at 15:09
“Dollar Bill” Jefferson, Marion Berry, the former Mayor of Detroit, Chris Dodd..sure, they care nothing more than the welfare of the people! Please.
There’s a difference between individual corruption like the Democrats have exhibited and institutional corruption that is the platform of the Republican party, so CHILD, PLEASE!
When you point out one Republican “Kennedy”, then perhaps I’ll concede your point.
actor212 said,
December 6, 2009 at 15:11
It seems there’s a fundamental difference between Catholicism and Islam, which is that Catholicism has a single hierarchical tree, where Islam can have many ‘authorities’.
You can’t equate Islam with Catholicism. It’s more like Christianity, full stop.
And Dave has a point, one I’ve had, as a Christian and a minister, to swallow hard and ignore: it’s OK to talk about the corrupt church authorities, but oftentimes passes are given to the same kinds of corruption in mosques and the teachings of the Koran.
It makes it hard to deal with the anti-Christian faction sometimes.
Reality Checker said,
December 6, 2009 at 15:44
@actor212—
Y’know, I have sort ‘a mixed feelings, being a Jew and all.
I mean on the one had I understand Dave’s frustration. And yours. I understand that the Catholic Church is not a completely monolithic institution, whatever the pope might want.
But as Jew I sort of think, at least in the case of the Catholic Church, is there ever going to be a pope who owns up? It took 1,500 years for the Church to issue a weasely non-apology for trying to kill us all off. Um, thanks Paul. We could have used a little more help here and there, like during the fucking war but I know you guys had other stuff on the plate.
I just want, so desperately for a pope, any pope, to say “We did something shitty, and horrible. We are sorry. There is NO excuse. And we will do X to make it right.”
X could be any number of things. I’m willing to give a lot of leeway there.
But something would be nice. And that’s just as a Jew. I shudder to think about kids who were abused by priests. On that front, if the Church said,
“If you are accused of abusing a child you are
a) relieved of duty pending investigation
b) we are calling the cops”
And a little, wee bit of compensation for the victims of the Church’s slave labor camps — oops, I mean homes for wayward girls — would be nice.
Then I would be happy as a clam as that is all we expect of anybody else.
Islam IS a bit different in that there being no central authority, (a la Judaism) there isn’t anyone to make that apology. But Catholic popes make a claim to it, so to my mind it’s time to take responsibility for it. You did it. Own up. That is all I ask. Especially when you claim some moral high ground.
Islamic terrorists don’t claim that, nor do right-wingers like McVeigh. I understand what they are about, I know it, I feel like at least they are honest, you know? I trust Osama Bin Laden a lot more than a pope. And the Islamic world never said they wanted to eliminate us from the landscape. They said to Jews (and Christians) “You may not have certain rights, you may not live among us.” The Christians said “You may not live.” And it wasn’t a thousand years ago — I would give ‘em a pass for that. It was when my late grandfather was in college.
That’s MY frustration.
actor212 said,
December 7, 2009 at 15:33
But as Jew I sort of think, at least in the case of the Catholic Church, is there ever going to be a pope who owns up?
SASQ.
No.
This is why the American Catholic Church has become so much more moderate than the Vatican. I mean, my God, look at what happened with the pedophile scandal!
It is unpossible to believe that it stopped at our shore, and yet from the treatment the Vatican gave it, you’d think only American priests buggered young men (and women).
And that’s taking into account the half-hearted and ultimately grudging acknowledgements the Americans gave it. Indeed, the Vatican’s position was basically, “Well, that’s what you guys get for not paying MORE attention to the Pope!”
Keep in mind how many hundreds of years it took the Catholics to acknowledge that indeed the earth went around the sun. And that’s the easy bit.
actor212 said,
December 7, 2009 at 15:35
One more thing, RC…it’s true that Catholicism points to the Pope as its leader, but the entire panoply of Christianity does not. Indeed, many Protestant sects shunned the Pope and his authority centuries ago (and then those churches branched off like amoebae over other internal issues).
I’m a Lutheran and sadly, our church is heading from the direction of (literally) calling the Pope the “Anti-Christ” to re-merging with them. I’m not for this, because Lutheranism is very much about individual relationships with Jesus and God, directly, with little intervention.
Apparently our synod feels that whole “indulgences” thing has finally worked its way out of the Papal system…
The Fool said,
December 7, 2009 at 23:56
Ponnuru is an idiot to be sure but TinTin sounds a bit shrill here. The Bishops could conceivably will a given end without willing any particular means to that end.