29
Land, ho!
I have a new article on AlterNet up about seasteading, the hilarious new glibertarian phenomenon where a bunch of rich guys try to flee the iron fist of democracy by living on concrete platforms in the middle of the ocean. Here’s an excerpt:
Seasteading: Libertarians Set to Launch a (Wet) Dream of ‘Freedom’ in International Waters
By Brad Reed, AlterNet [...]
At this point, some practical concerns arise. First, any offshore facility that specializes in narcotics trade is going to become the world’s No. 1 target for pirates. The seasteaders briefly address the threat of piracy by explaining that “most pirate attacks are either very small-scale, preying on unarmed ships, or very large-scale, with organized groups stealing entire cargo ships. A seastead will be too tough for small pirates and not financially worthwhile for big ones.”
Really! An entire sea platform filled with highly profitable illegal drugs would not be financially worthwhile for pirates to attack! Good luck with that.
The second big problem that seasteaders face is that most governments will be none-too-thrilled to have platforms located just off their coasts that pay no taxes and that profit directly from undermining their own legal systems.
In the best-case scenario, governments will enact heavy tariffs on any goods imported from a seastead, thus negating whatever competitive advantage is gained from erecting “patent-free zones.” In the worst-case scenario, they’ll send out their navies to shut down the whole operation.
The seastead manifesto keenly observes that ocean platforms would be “quite vulnerable to larger weapons” from navies since “concrete is tough but far from indestructible.” But even these limitations shouldn’t keep a good seasteader down, because “sea-skimming anti-ship cruise missiles like the Chinese Silkworm are fairly cheap and quite effective,” and “a rocket engineer in New Zealand has set out to prove that you can build a small cruise missile for $5,000.”
Incidentally, I’m surprised that the Ole Perfesser been dismissive of this phenomenon so far even though it involves both “Going Galt” and living in the company of like-minded transhumanist dweebs. I guess the prospect of having to actually fend for himself without the comfort of the American military is too much for him to handle.
Scott said,
May 29, 2009 at 15:54
They could build an undersea super-city like Andrew Ryan.
mark f said,
May 29, 2009 at 15:57
But it would be such a paradise! You wouldn’t need a postgraduate degree in order to artificially limit the number of people eligible to demonstrate their competance in the law. And you wouldn’t need copyright laws, either; the market could decide who wrote something first.
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 15:57
This was done by some clowns on an abandoned British WWII defense installation in the English Channel.
Hilarious what happened after competing factions starting claiming they were the actual landlords. They issued coins & stamps. Lawsuits in various countries about who actually ran things.
I can’t seem to find the name right now but I’m sure it’ll be posted soon in comments by somebody.
Brad said,
May 29, 2009 at 15:58
Lawsuits in various countries about who actually ran things.
How can you have lawsuits over a piece of property on international waters?
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:00
So let me see…American industry profits from building these sea platforms, or the basic components of them, and then profits by getting rid of these parasites? Sounds like a win/win to me. And if you’re recruiting gullible gomers to go galt in the middle of the ocean, it’s more believable than Venus!
I like that! [Elwood P. Dowd] With your permission, I’ll say it again: [/Elwood P. Dowd] “Gullible Gomers Going Galt!”
I Cried My Heart Out For Want Of My Love said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:00
It’s been tried. And that example is still the most successful you’re ever going to be with this thing.
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:02
I, for one, welcome the seasteads. And please don’t mind the fleet of helicopters carrying the giant rock a half mile over your heads, further out to sea….
I Cried My Heart Out For Want Of My Love said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:03
I’m not surprised. 99% of Libertarians are totally bullish on the whole living-for-oneself thing qua idea, but actually make them do it and they die of shock the first time they see a rake.
Woesinger said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:03
@ You Can’t Put Lipstick On A Repig:
The place you’re thinking of is the Principality of Sealand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand
Which has had more coups, intrigues and extra legal shenanigans than most real countries.
g said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:04
So they’re Going Salt, eh?
And they’re going to shoot missiles at the Navy? Good luck with that.
Argive said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:06
This sounds familiar. Where have I heard of this stupid idea before? Oh right. Libertarians have been playing too many video games:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioshock
Also, I wonder if the people behind this project have given any thought to the potential consequences of being caught in a hurricane or other such massive storm. There’s really not much to be done in that case.
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:06
How can you have lawsuits over a piece of property on international waters?
I was repeating stuff from memory, but as I predicted someone else (I Cried My Heart Out For Want Of My Love) found/remembered the name – Sealand. You can read all about it.
I have a mild personal interest in the subject because a long, long time ago the golf pro at the place where my parents golfed was Mike Austin, who among other things (longest drive in tournament play) started “Aqualandia” (again from memory so maybe wrong). He had claimed, out of nowhere, the entire seabed of the world for his own, but then “gave” it to the UN. Just a publicity stunt, but he loved stunts – like doing 18 holes using just a Coke bottle as a substitute for all his clubs.
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:07
I can’t seem to find the name right now but I’m sure it’ll be posted soon in comments by somebody.
SeaLand.
“Cried” posted the link to the Wiki article, including the tale of the hostile takeover, and the attempts by the original “ruler” to enlist the help of the British military for a counter-coup.
Ken Lowery said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:09
I notice the seastead has a greenhouse garden! I wonder who will be forced to tend to the vegetation there?
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:10
How can you have lawsuits over a piece of property on international waters?
Well, there is the UN’s International Maritime Organization, but most disputes are handled by the Coast Guard of the nearest signatory nation.
Which means that these *koffkoff* Galters would have to sign up with the New World Order in order to protect their legal rights…
round guy said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:11
These guys do realize that most drug addicts don’t have any money, right? Plenty of them steal to support their habits.
Are they planning to cater to only celebrity addicts? Seems like kind of a niche market there.
Oh, wait, sorry. Taking the idiots seriously again.
Anonymous said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:11
Here you go…
http://www.sealandgov.org/history.html
The history of Prince Roy and his quest for freedom off the coast of Ipswich.
g said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:11
Loved the Sealand article. Fascinating.
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:11
I wonder who will be forced to tend to the vegetation there?
Who else?
The women.
Either that, or they will be enlisting Messican immigrants.
Bigby said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:12
Didn’t I already see this idea reach it’s logical conclusion of having Jill St John prancing about in a purple bikini?
Andy Axel said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:15
I guess the prospect of having to actually fend for himself without the comfort of the American military is too much for him to handle.
Libertarians rather enjoy living on their metaphorical islands that exist between their ears.
Can you imagine sharing the exclusive company of a bunch of these “rugged individualists” on the all-too-literal equivalent of a parking lot atop the ocean? I assume that they’d quickly bore one another to death, especially once they figure out that broadband access to the Internet is non-existent, e.g.
Jennifer said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:15
I notice that when Sealand caught fire they transported someone to a British hospital.
I thought the Galt-goers were entirely self-sufficient? So what’s with this 1) being rescued and then 2) becoming a parasite on the parasitical society you’ve Galted from by using its medical resources?
Woodrowfan said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:17
in the 1990s they were talking about doing this with a large cruise ship..
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:19
in the 1990s they were talking about doing this with a large cruise ship..
I’m pretty sure those plans are still in place. The costs are not astronomical, just very high, so there are probably a lot of people still interested, especially wealthy people living in “unsafe” countries.
mark f said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:21
Whatever happened to the libertarian takeover of New Hampshire? I thought they were all going to move there and elect Ron Paul governor or something.
Reginald Perrin said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:22
No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!
Ken Lowery said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:22
The Freedom Ship!
http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/3328/floating_utopias/
It’s now basically a parasitic economy feeding off a host country.
Jennifer said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:22
…especially wealthy people living in “unsafe” countries.
The pirates will take care of them.
We need to get it through to these morons that there is literally no place on Earth where they can escape from their dusky inferiors. Then we can point them on to the proper course – the colonization of Mars. Just aim the rocket a little to the left, and our wildest lefty dreams will come true, as we shoot the wingnuts on a rocket into the sun.
Gundamhead said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:23
Wait, what? These tards seriously think that they can intimidate the military forces of potentially hostile countries with a few cruise missiles? And that threatening them in such a manner (or actually firing on them) won’t bring massive retaliation? And a handful John Galt wannabe douchebags are really going to be able to defeat even a third world military? I have to think that this just more idiotic posturing, like the “Go Galt!” threats. I cannot believe anybody could truly be this narcissistic and stupid.
owlbear1 said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:24
Real Galters go Lagrange.
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:24
The most recent messages date from more than two years ago, forlornly explaining how “scam operations” are slowing things down but that “[t]hings are happening, and they are moving fast.” Meanwhile, the ship is not yet finished. Indeed, it is not yet started. Despite this, Freedom Ship International Inc. has been startlingly successful in raising publicity for this “floating city.” Much credulous journalistic cooing over “the biggest vessel in history,” with its “hospitals, banks, sports centres, parks, theaters and nightclubs,” not to mention its airport, has ignored the vessel’s stubborn nonexistence.
I saw this on the Science Channel at one point.
I figured it was one big honking Nigerian 409 scam, artfully produced to sucker the rich and stupid in.
I was right.
Jennifer said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:27
The Freedom Ship!
This is why god invented rogue waves.
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:27
Hm, curious. What’s the longest range for a helicopter to fly? Because it seems to me that if you got a lot of rich people living together, the “conspicuous consumption” rate would dramatically skyrocket, meaning that helipad would be utilized frequently by more and bigger choppers flying out more and bigger everything…including, undoubtedly, cars.
djheru said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:28
But if the terrorists hate US for OUR (miniscule level of) freedom, won’t they hate seamen more? Who will serve as their daddy/big brother/master/top to keep them safe from the mohammedian hordes?
I Cried My Heart Out For Want Of My Love said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:28
I’ll say one thing for Seasteading: it might just be a better and cheaper alternative to the enormous subturranean network of lead-lined concrete bunkers and corridors I’m planning on digging out for when someone finally drops nukes on everyone, which they inevitably will.
Woodrowfan said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:30
check the comments on the story on Alternet. The libtards and conspiracy nuts are out in force. WE’RE NOT A DEMOCRACY, WE’RE A REPUBLIC!!! 9-11!!! THE FED!!! THE NWO!! OMG!!! DOGS AND CATS, LIVING TOGETHER!!!
Till said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:31
Realistically, they’d do business with criminal organizations who buy in bulk and smuggle their products into the civilized world. Of course, they’d just come with AK-47s, kill everybody, and steal the drugs.
And if they became a heavily armed and successful enclave of drug production, well, the best you could hope for would be a blockade from the countries you’re pissing off.
El Cid said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:32
So, how much would it cost to ship all our libertarians off to some seagoing dump barge? I’ll chip in.
Bigby said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:34
How’re them cruise missiles gonna fair against WWII era diesel attack subs pumping one torpedo each into Platformtopia’s pylons? Or are they going to spend a gazillion $$$s on multi-threat weapons systems?
This so reminds me of my freshman college roommate’s foray into pot growing:
1. 1 pot ($8)
2. 1 bag o’ dirt ($5)
3. 1 bag o’ fertilizer ($4)
4. 1 grow light ($29)
5. 1 extension cord ($3)
6. 1 dorm closet (free)
7. 2 months
8. 1 tiny plant
9. 1 dried out bunch of leaves, no buds
10 1 pack of Job rolling papers ($1)
11 1 anemic joint, net cost; 1 month and $50.
12 ???
13 profit!
Woodrowfan said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:35
ah the freedom ship. I heard about it one night on Mike McConnell’s show on WLW (I was looking for the Reds game, and got wackadoodle instead). McConnell seemed to be taking it seriously, but had great concerns about tidal waves.
Once they do build it (eye roll) I suggest someone invest in refurbishing a WWII-era U-Boat and go sailing….
Ginger Yellow said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:36
I know the Thiel thing has been done before, but if capitalism and democracy are incompatible, why is it democracy that has to go?
Sarcastro said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:36
“sea-skimming anti-ship cruise missiles like the Chinese Silkworm are fairly cheap and quite effective,”
Yes. Short-range cruise missiles are very effective. Very effective at getting long-range cruise missiles – Tomahawks or Shipwrecks say – rained down upon your ass like the wrath of god.
Walter said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:38
Hilarious piece. I wish them the best of luck with this. I’ll be amused all weekend at the thought of rich libertarians going all Lord of the Flies on a concrete platform in the middle of the ocean. What a fitting conclusion for the conservative movement.
(By the way, what’s with all of the insane manifestos in the comments section? I hope the FBI is watching some of these people.)
J— said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:39
Real Galters go Lagrange.
But how, how, how?
“concrete is tough but far from indestructible.”
Wool is warm when wet.
Bigby said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:39
Incidentally, said college roommate pot grower was a Galtian Engineering major who ultimately nearly flunked out, switched to Management, then went home to work at his dad’s company, the rugged individualist (he also spent the semester taping all my LP’s and CD’s onto cassettes).
Woodrowfan said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:39
I’ll be amused all weekend at the thought of rich libertarians going all Lord of the Flies on a concrete platform in the middle of the ocean.
anybody else just get a vision of Limbaugh as Piggy???
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:40
check the comments on the story on Alternet.
One of them makes the point about there being two kinds of libertarians – either you come from the left and complain about too much military spending (among other things), or come from the right and complain about regulations (among other things).
So any Galters will end up having two factions anyway. Kind of hilarious to think that people espousing a limited form of anarchy, the best definition of Libertarianism I can think of, wouldn’t end up fighting each other over who runs things.
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:42
Realistically, they’d do business with criminal organizations who buy in bulk and smuggle their products into the civilized world. Of course, they’d just come with AK-47s, kill everybody, and steal the drugs.
Um, if they’re going to be middlemen and store the stuff, then why would the dealers be in league with them? After all, on an “island” like that, they’d hold all the cards with the drugs in their possession. No one would give them the time of day because there’s no recourse, like a rival gang.
And if they’re actually mixing up batches, don’t their costs of production skyrocket being that far away from any reasonable delivery mode?
mingo said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:43
So, how much would it cost to ship all our libertarians off to some seagoing dump barge? I’ll chip in.
me, too. in fact, I’ll donate some extra for the web cams all over the place so we can sit back and enjoy watching the antics of the libertarian utopia denizens.
and second on Jennifer’s rogue wave. The seascape dwelllings are always shown on a beautiful day, with a calm, lovely sea below. then the storm. then, well, not even crickets.
Jennifer said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:43
Why Thiel expects any woman would willingly give up her right to vote to join him on his oceanic dorktopia is puzzling
Priceless.
Shorter seasteaders: The only way to escape the parasitism of democracy is to become a parasite upon democracy!
Walter said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:45
I wonder where our trolls are today.
Perhaps, rather than write comments, they are signing up for duty on the Good Ship Milton Friedman.
Meanderthal said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:45
I know the Thiel thing has been done before, but if capitalism and democracy are incompatible, why is it democracy that has to go?
Because pure capitalism is simpler than pure democracy, and libertarians–even more than most other conservatives–have minds that cannot handle nuanced ideas.
Remember, a libertarian is someone who thinks roads just happen.
J— said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:47
Indeed, Thiel thinks democracy in the United States has been a dead end since the 1920s, when “the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of ‘capitalist democracy’ into an oxymoron.”
Once again, the dudes got a good thing going, and then the women come along and fuck it up. They don’t call it the nanny state for nothing.
owlbear1 said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:48
Remember, a libertarian is someone who thinks roads just happen.
And Toll Bridges a commie plot…
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:49
in fact, I’ll donate some extra for the web cams all over the place so we can sit back and enjoy watching the antics of the libertarian utopia denizens.
We could make it a reality series. The latest installment of Big Brother
The irony would be lost on the Galters of course: we’d be enjoying their pain in the comforts of our living room, in true Randian fashion, all under the auspices of a TV program named after the most fascistic governing mechanism every devised in fiction…
Scott said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:52
Those homemade Cruise missiles will make their dicks feel absolutely gigantic after they fire them off at some pesky American battleship… for about six seconds, and then Glorious Concrete Libertarian Paradise takes up residence on the ocean floor.
I just hope someone takes some good video of it — they could put it on America’s Funniest Home Videos…
g said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:53
I note from the Wiki article about Sealand, the ludicrous nature of the disputes. They freaked out because Britain came into “their waters” to service a navigational buoy. At least saner nations have fights over things like “hey, quit taking our fish!” but WTF difference should it make to a bunch of chumps living on a concrete raft that the country they probably get their food shipped from maintains its buoys – that were probably there FIRST anyway?
If you’re going to be a monarch of an acre of concrete, I think you should be a little less thin-skinned.
J— said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:55
Incidentally, I’m surprised that the Ole Perfesser been dismissive of this phenomenon so far even though it involves both “Going Galt” and living in the company of like-minded transhumanist dweebs.
Maybe he sees it as possibly draining resources from the OG glibertarian pipe dream: space colonization.
I Cried My Heart Out For Want Of My Love said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:56
I’ll say this, and all: the more I read the article, the more I think this’d make a pretty fun little indie strategy game. Theme Seastead.
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:57
Y’know, I was thinking, “Why would the American navy waste its time firing expensive Tomahawks at a bunch of people who have the equivalent of supercharged pea shooters? Why not blockade them just out of range until they either exhausted their supply or gave in?”
And then I remembered: that’s so pre-9/11 thinking…
El Cid said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:57
Expect some serious right wing and liberal hawk freak-outery: Secret Indoneso-Kenyo-Hawaiin Shari’a law surrenderer Barack Hussein Arafat Khaddafi Obama X has met in the White House with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas:
Clearly this means that Obama promised to allow Hamas’ Qassam rockets to be launched from U.S. soil at any potential Christmas display.
Meanderthal said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:58
And then I remembered: that’s so pre-9/11 thinking
And hey, 9/11 changed everything, right? Or so I hear. Too bad for the sea-steaders.
J— said,
May 29, 2009 at 16:58
These are to be rafts, right? They’ll have to be careful about where they float, because states’ exclusive economic zones extend 200 nautical miles from their coasts.
kingubu said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:01
These tards seriously think that they can intimidate the military forces of potentially hostile countries with a few cruise missiles?
Remember, these geniuses are kissin’ cousins to the morans who think the 2nd Amendment is there primarily as a means to thwart BIG GUBBMIT OPPRESSION because, you know, they could totally fend off an Apache Longbow with Grampa’s deer rifle.
Mr. Wonderful said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:02
Sealand has not only a government in exile, but a national anthem.
Can I write the lyrics for the anthem of the next seasteader paradise? Maybe something like this:
O Beautiful
And very very small
Incorruptible and
Almost not there at all
As we hark! Hark! Hark!
To the Freedom in our heads!
No place to park! Park! Park!
But we sleep well in our beds.
For we know in our Soul
Our beloved (name of state)
Though no bigger than a K-Mart
Is a place our en’mies hate
And so here
We take our stand
With our Values
In our hand
Free of governments and taxes
And the ACLU’s faxes
And the leeches and the moochers
And the fags and hoochie-coochers
And the pro-choice feminazis
With their Unos and their Yahtzees
And the immigrant invader
And Judge Ginsberg, yes, Ruth Bader
And from all the other foes that threaten
Life and liberty
O (name of state)
We think you’re great
Our father “land” and
“Land” of mother
We will die defending thee
Assuming we
Have no other
Priority.
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:02
Upon further thought, something like a Libertarian floating utopia has actually happened – and is now in the process of crashing and burning.
The economic life cycle of Abu Dhabi is like the whole 18/19/20 centuries compressed into a few decades. Ultra boom, ultra crash.
moondancing said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:03
Wheres the Randtard brilliance? Why not revive the “space ladder”? Then you could collect space debris into a orbitting white trash trailer park, and really show those librul meanies.
mingo said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:04
We could make it a reality series. The latest installment of Big Brother
I would totally get myself a fancy teebee just to watch that.
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:04
Mr. Wonderful said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:02
FTW!
Only, what’s the tune?
I’m sort of hearing a Hannah Montana song here.
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:06
because, you know, they could totally fend off an Apache Longbow with Grampa’s deer rifle.
Nowadays they mainly fend off attacks by whining a lot. On the intellectual front, their favorite tack are whines like “You’re bigots because you don’t tolerate our intolerance! WAHHHHH!”
Or lawsuits. The libertarian wingnuts all hate lawsuits, unless it is them doin’ the suin’, in which case they LOVE lawyers.
tigrismus said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:06
Whatever happened to the libertarian takeover of New Hampshire? I thought they were all going to move there and elect Ron Paul governor or something.
Proceeding apace, according to an article in today’s Boston Globe.
mingo said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:07
i just suddenly heard the tune that has the phrase in it “as the caissons go rolling along” (might even be the name of the song). I think that would be a good tune for a libertarian paradise patriotic anthem.
lolly said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:09
Since the essence of Libertarianism is utter and complete selflessness and lack of empathy, that makes sense. Like 3 year olds who don’t yet realize that the world is NOT centered on them, each “Seaman” would expect everything that happened to conform to his needs. When it didn’t, like those 3 year-olds, they would automatically assume someone else was to blame. Just as toddlers throw fits and hit their siblings when something doesn’t go their way, these guys sue random neighbors when life isn’t perfect.
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:09
Why not revive the “space ladder”?
Another idea that has been resurrected. You could never do it before because the strength of even the most exotic steel couldn’t support the weight of the ladder/tube/whatever itself. But now with carbon nanotubes, it is theoretically possible to construct such a beast.
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:13
Like 3 year olds who don’t yet realize that the world is NOT centered on them, each “Seaman” would expect everything that happened to conform to his needs.
So from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs?
Hm. Where have I heard that before….?
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:13
Since the essence of Libertarianism is utter and complete selflessness
I think you meant “selfishness”
On that theme, I love these two quotes. They are Gold:
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy, that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” – John K. Galbraith
“A conservative is someone who believes the problem with our economy is that poor people have too much money.” – Bob Orben, speechwriter for Gerald Ford
owlbear1 said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:13
On a recent day, six Free Staters gathered at a Panera’s in Keene to talk about the Project. The members hailed from across the country – Oklahoma, Florida, California, Nevada. Many are single men; the majority are computer programmers.
yep, yep, yep.
Rusty Shackleford said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:17
Building this thing would be easier than cooking a duck.
Epstein's Mother said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:17
actor 212,
the guys who ran the Greatest Ministry International scam had plans to go Galt by buying their own island :
Part of the plan was to import 30 Filipino laborers to tend to the vegetation and do the grunt work necessary to built an Ecclesiastical Domain..
The case even made it to the Supreme Court:
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:18
Many are single men; the majority are computer programmers.
I would bet 95% plus of them are Microsoft Certified as well! Layer upon layer of irony with that…..
El Cid said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:20
Hey, maybe they could hire Scientology’s Sea Org to defend them!
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:21
he guys who ran the Greatest Ministry International scam had plans to go Galt by buying their own island :
When I was travelling in the Northern Pacific in the early 90′s, I was told that I could get a Tonga passport for $50K payment to the King. With said passport I could do pretty much anything I wanted anywhere in the world. According to my source, quite a few criminals, quasi-criminals, and white-collar fatcats (or am I being redundant?) did this.
Till said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:21
because, you know, they could totally fend off an Apache Longbow with Grampa’s deer rifle.
Another of my favorites. Whenever the issue of gun control comes up on a mixed forum, you’ll always hear dick-waving platitudes about armed revolution. And 200 years ago, that was feasible. These days, not so much.
It makes the honest crazy of true Libertarians a little refreshing. IIRC, when asked, Harry Browne supported the private ownership of nuclear weapons.
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:22
But now with carbon nanotubes, it is theoretically possible to construct such a beast.
Again, thanks to the Science Channel, I saw where they actually had a competition to build a prototype space elevator and power it without fossil fuels.
See, altho you’d reach a point in space where acceleration is no longer necessary (and in fact, you could utilize the energy released in braking the payload and put it back into the loop), you need to drive the payload up to that point without adding extraneous weight to the platform. The hitch is, you have to drive it quickly for two reasons: to clear the tether for the next launch and to maintain some semblance of horizontal movement so as not to warp the cable, at least until the Coriolis Effect takes over.
And that means you end up generating a lot of waste energy, either using solar, or lasers, or nukes. Your cost to deliver your payload goes up until you can increase the effiiciency of the energy system.
Right now, it costs about $11,000 to send a kilogram of mass into space. Estimates are a space elevator could one day bring this down by 98%.
mingo said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:22
in the bay, in the bight,
we will prove our cause is right
as the galters go striking along!
o’er the wave, in the dome,
we will make our freedom home
as the galters go striking along!
for it’s hi hi hee!
no government for we!
wimmenz no longer haz the vote!!
we struts and we boasts
then import our meds and roasts
as the galters go striking along!
Nom de Plume said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:25
Wow, that Hubbard was cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, wasn’t he?
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:25
Hey, maybe they could hire Scientology’s Sea Org to defend them!
Great pictures at that link. They need to rename all the ships to “H.N.S Dork I”, “H.N.S Dork II”, etc.
“H.N.S” means “His Nutcase’s Ship”
Frank Fontaine said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:25
These sad saps. They come to seastead, thinking they’re gonna be captains of industry. But they all forget that somebody’s gotta scrub the toilets. What an angle they gave me—I hand these mugs a cot and a bowl of soup, and they give me their lives. Who needs an army when I got Fontaine’s Home for the Poor?
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:25
New Hampshire’s not the best choice; since they got a second congressman, they only get twice the number of Electoral Votes that their representation entitles them too, instead of three times. They need to take over Montana or Alaska…oh, wait!
mark f said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:31
Proceeding apace, according to an article in today’s Boston Globe.
Only 19,521 relocators until they meet their goal. Weren’t 5000 supposed to have moved immediately after NH won their election?
lolly said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:32
With one minor change–there is no “from” in Gault’s Gulch, or Seastead, and probably precious few abilities, either.
Oh yeah, and I did mean “selfishness,” Lipstick.
The Kid From Kounty Meath said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:37
I can’t wait for them to point to “Up” as an example of how successful going Galt can be. God knows they’re “Durrr, wut meanz ‘ficshun’?” approach worked when they were using 24 to justify torture.
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:38
Me, personally, I would have enlisted in the Conch Republic.
kate said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:44
mark f said,
Whatever happened to the libertarian takeover of New Hampshire? I thought they were all going to move there and elect Ron Paul governor or something.
They keep getting arrested when their non-compliant brethren turn them in for 1) not paying taxes and therefore sponging off the community 2) harboring huge amounts of weapons whilst doing said sponging and threatening their neighbors 3) placing their children, pets or others in danger which requires government, taxpayer paid invention on behalf of the hapless victims of their shameless narcissism.
In other words, they’ve provided a wonderful illustration of how stupid is usually self defeating if left to its own devices long enough.
Brandi said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:45
Since the essence of Libertarianism is utter and complete selflessness
I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
J— said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:45
I can’t wait for them to point to “Up” as an example of how successful going Galt can be.
Except word has it they end up the Great Savannah in Venezuela. You can’t go galt in socialist Venezuela!
J— said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:46
I’m moving to Blennerhasset Island. There I’ll make plans for the long term.
Scratchie said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:56
I can’t believe you missed this low-hanging fruit:
“Won’t it sink? Where will you get power? What if someone gets sick? Won’t pirates attack you? (And so forth…)
These are all natural concerns, but try to keep in mind that over thirty million people a year already visit floating cities in the form of cruise ships, which provide water, food, power, service staff, and safety from the waves at a cost as low as $60/night. ”
OF COURSE! BRILLIANT! IT WILL BE JUST LIKE RUNNING A CRUISE SHIP!
The Kid From Kounty Meath said,
May 29, 2009 at 17:58
“These are all natural concerns, but try to keep in mind that over thirty million people a year already visit floating cities in the form of cruise ships, which provide water, food, power, service staff, and safety from the waves at a cost as low as $60/night. ”
Oh, my mistake. They’re not imitating “Up”, they’re imitating “WALL-E”.
Percyprune said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:00
So, where do the service staff for this paradise live? What rights do they have? Do they indeed have any citizen rights?
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:02
IT WILL BE JUST LIKE RUNNING A CRUISE SHIP!
Until they’re kept in suspended animation for 900 years because the supply of lemon-soaked napkins is delayed.
mingo said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:08
So, where do the service staff for this paradise live? What rights do they have? Do they indeed have any citizen rights?
see that long tube thingy on the sealand platform?
Nom de Plume said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:08
IT WILL BE JUST LIKE RUNNING A CRUISE SHIP!
They’re not going to like that very much:
Emphasis mine. Source: http://www.justia.com/admiralty/cruise-ships/
mingo said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:09
also, for the second two questions – “none” and “no”.
bulbul said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:12
anybody else just get a vision of Limbaugh as Piggy???
Actually, it was Jonah that immediately appeared in front of my mind’s eye.
BTW, überthanks to whoever linked to the Floating Utopias article. This quote is one for the ages:
Percyprune said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:15
So let’s assume these zeebs build their platform. What happens as soon as some of them decide to start regulating things? You know, reasonable things like fire safety or dumping of toxic waste. Because you know that sooner or later someone will start a fire and then the rest of the community are gonna want to do something about it.
How long before a civil war begins?
Woodrowfan said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:17
“Imagine a thousand chubby white computer programmers selling each other Amway, forever.”
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:20
“Imagine a thousand chubby white computer programmers selling each other Amway, forever.”
Bernie Madoff would approve.
kingubu said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:22
“Imagine a thousand chubby white computer programmers selling each other Amway, forever.”
Teh Winnah. Would you like that whole Internet gift-wrapped or will you wear it out of the store?
Percyprune said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:25
Libertarians are, with few exceptions, B-Ark candidates.
BrazilianRascal said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:27
If you’re looking for me
You better check under the sea
‘Cause that is where you’ll find me….
It’s Sealab 2021: the live-action!
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:34
It is a philosophy of capitalist inadequacy.
Inadequacy is the ne plus ultra of repigs in general.
g said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:35
From the Free-Stater article:
The actions have ranged from the odd, such as when Free Staters filed another person’s fingernails without a manicurist’s license on a public sidewalk or held an unlicensed puppet show, to the irksome, as when they tried to dig a garden in a downtown Keene park, to the instigative, such as the day they stood on a street corner with a marijuana bud held aloft. Sometimes, they simply veer toward obstinate, wearing hats in a courtroom after being asked to take them off or refusing to remove a couch from a lawn.
Manicures as civil disobedience!
Of course, a manicurist’s license is required for someone running a business manicuring people’s nails, so simply filing a friend’s in public totally pointless as a protest.
They ought to set up shop instead, using unsanitary tools, and make sure they give someone toenail fungus, to uphold their principles.
OneMan said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:37
“If you’re going to be a monarch of an acre of concrete, I think you should be a little less thin-skinned.”
Thin skinnedness is probably the one unifying trait of the Libertarians I’ve met.
…And the ACLU’s faxes…
…as the galters go striking along!…
“Imagine a thousand chubby white computer programmers selling each other Amway, forever.”
*SNORK*
This thread is the funniest in a long time. Also, Brad, your article is full of teh laffs.
The comments, as pointed out earlier, are full of unintended comedy. Why is it that these jokers are incapable of writing anything less than a wall of TL;DR?
jim said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:42
Batshit Ahoy!
ARRRRRR!
The vast majority of these torpid puds couldn’t even homestead on prime LAND so what are their odds of being able to cut the mustard at SEA?
On land, if you fuck up you can just move to another (usually adjacent) tract of wild turf – but if you fuck up at sea, you have a fair to excellent chance of becoming fish-food.
I wish the doughty “pioneers” abord the HMS Ayn Rand or fucking “Reagan Island” or whatnot a jolly horrorshow load of fun during their annual typhoon season.
“Just like a cruise ship” — all essential regulations = epidemics galore!
An awesome human petrie-dish in which to engineer a real-life Braveheart-Waterworld bastard hybrid … rickets & lice & scurvy, oh my!
LittlePig said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:42
I believe the clinical description of that ol’ boy is fucking nuts
LittlePig said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:44
“Sir, the platform has fired on us. Orders?”
“Well, I guess we have no choice but to shoot the seamen”
“The crew will be glad to hear that, sir”
Caliph Garrett said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:47
“I just rubbed out several seamen on a single magazine, sir!”
“Nice shooting, but don’t get cocky, kid!”
lolly said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:48
Epidemics?
I get the feeling that they think sickness only happens–or at least originates with–inferior people. It’s one of those things that must be someone else’s fault. So, if they keep the inferior people off their little paradise, there will be no sickness.
Doc Washboard said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:48
It’s astounding how many of the fantasies spun up by weenies like these guys involve some form of playing army. Sure, I loved playing army when I was ten, but–well, I was ten.
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:50
“Imagine a thousand chubby white computer programmers selling each other Amway, forever.”
Or 1/3 will be selling Amway, 1/3 will be selling Herbalife, and 1/3 Shaklee.
You will need a mountain of popcorn to watch a show that awesome.
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:55
Oh boy. Just more irony and self-pwnage by these libertarian dorks.
The Free State Project is the brainchild of Jason Sorens, a State University of New York-Buffalo political science professor who published an article in 2001 in the online magazine Libertarian Enterprise outlining the idea.
SUNY-Buffalo, of course, is supported by – taxes.
mingo said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:55
I get the feeling that they think sickness only happens–or at least originates with–inferior people. It’s one of those things that must be someone else’s fault. So, if they keep the inferior people off their little paradise, there will be no sickness.
I think that’s a big proportion of it. I know someone that resembles this a lot, and he is smug about how *he* makes the prudent choices and thus never has bad things happen to him, therefore if bad things happen to other people, they somehow made the bad choice that enabled their misfortune and he has no sympathy.
I really don’t want something VERY bad to happen to him, that is outside his control, but I would like it if something happened to wake him up.
at bottom, they have so much fear, and a concommitant desperate need for control over it.
mingo said,
May 29, 2009 at 18:56
the sykyatrist is in.
LittlePig said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:11
You will need a mountain of popcorn to watch a show that awesome.
Why the networks don’t fund these little projects is beyond me. Talk about your Must See TV.
Then again, it would have to be some outfit like HBO, because of how gruesome it would be. It would make Saving Private Ryan look like The Sound Of Music.
Interrobang said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:15
I can’t quite get over the notion that the fucking founder of PayPal thinks that since women don’t vote correctly, therefore women shouldn’t be allowed to vote, and by extension, since the vast majority of the population
sees Libertarianism as the stinking crock of purulent feces it isdoesn’t vote according to His Nibs’ wishes either, therefore democracy sucks.Shorter Peter Thiel: I am the only real human being; everything else is irrelevant.
I’ll also predict that there’s a small voice constantly hectoring inside his head, telling him he’s never good enough, never smart enough, never enough enough; it takes that kind of existential brokenness to be that arrogant.
I suddenly feel like not using PayPal ever again.
cur said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:16
“They keep getting arrested when their non-compliant brethren turn them in for 1) not paying taxes and therefore sponging off the community 2) harboring huge amounts of weapons whilst doing said sponging and threatening their neighbors 3) placing their children, pets or others in danger which requires government, taxpayer paid invention on behalf of the hapless victims of their shameless narcissism.”
You know how I can pick these people out on the street. They have beards long enough to cover their throat and al least one of the doors on their vehicles is of a different color from a junk yard donor.
LittlePig said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:20
Nothing convinces me of the overall beneficence of America that people this damn stupid can live so comfortably that they have time to think of this shit.
Pere Ubu said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:20
Ughhhh!
Late to the party, as usual. And on a thread I can talk intelligently (stop laughing, you) about!
I read a book awhile back about these types – I forget the title but the writer called the whole thing “fin de sicle hubristic mania”. Libertarians seem to have REALLY GREAT ideas like Sealand and Libertopia and L-5 colonies and all this… and end up putzing out from lack of funds. Funds which are supposedly coming from the Libertarian’s latest great get-rich-quick scheme which of course never pans out, which is never because it’s either a scam or a rotten idea but because of the confiscatory tax rates or gummint regulations or something like that.
Bruce Sterling had a great comment on this kind of thing at a panel at a SF convention I went to – someone asked him his opinion on life in a space colony and his response was that he thought it’d be pretty much like being at a sceince fiction convention 24/7 – one that you could never leave.
I agree with you guys – if they did somehow scrape together the money and start their Erewhon and defend it adequately (*snicker*) and all that… they’ll last about a week before they realize just how miserable it is cramped together with five hundred other snotty egotists being pigeonholed in the corridors for impromptu lectures on Hayek and Branden and wondering when the next shipment of Hustler magazines and Mennen Speedsticks is going to be in.
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:22
Then again, it would have to be some outfit like HBO, because of how gruesome it would be. It would make Saving Private Ryan look like The Sound Of Music.
Nah, I imagine most of the gun-caused damage would be collateral damage on all the things surrounding the intended targets. The hand-to-hand combat would resemble the fat dweeby kids in 3rd grade hitting people in the arm and swinging wildly and missing. Imagine how Shemp ineffectively punches at Moe.
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:23
al least one of the doors on their vehicles is of a different color from a junk yard donor.
Do they still have any AMC parts left in junkyards that haven’t rusted away?
cur said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:31
AMC’s were brilliant. Lets put a great big shit ass motor in a Chevet. Like the Darwin awards guy with the rocket strapped to his car. I would wager that a majority of the Darwin award winners were of libertarian persuasion. I mean really. Who the fuck gets killed by a vending machine anyway?
Xecky Gilchrist said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:32
As I always do in these threads, I recommend “Stark” by Ben Elton. Black humor (sorry, humour) novel about the space-based equivalent to this seasteading crap.
Pere Ubu said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:33
BTW, I know someone’s said it already, but shouldn’t the title of this post be “Lard, Ho!”
Jay B. said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:34
It’s like years upon years of “Do What You Feel Days” with enormous amounts of drugs and $5,000 missles on stationary platforms hundreds of miles out to sea. What could possibly go wrong?
cur said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:37
“with enormous amounts of drugs and $5,000 missles on stationary platforms hundreds of miles out to sea. What could possibly go wrong?”
hahahahahahahaha
I declare Jay B. the winner of the internets, this day of May 29th 2009.
Jason said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:39
From Brad’s article:
If the plan is to live outside of specified laws and engage in illegal trade, I don’t see why they’d need to kidnap somebody at all. The sex slave trade is illegal as well. It sounds like Thiel/Floaters see the advantage to having a female population as a combination concubinage (men’s “needs”), brothel (free trade), and service industry (maids) all in one. While completely eradicating child pornography laws. The comment above about human rights is spot on; that’s the only regulation that stands to be eradicated here.
Pere Ubu said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:40
It’s like years upon years of “Do What You Feel Days” with enormous amounts of drugs and $5,000 missles on stationary platforms hundreds of miles out to sea. What could possibly go wrong?
Yeah, exactly the point.
Put together doughy conservative guys and mere alcohol and a couple guns and next thing you know they’re blazing away at cans and rocks and trees and rockchucks and whatever else. It’s fucking inevitable.
Seatopia’d last about until a couple geniuses decided to plink “floating garbage” with their shiny new super railgun, only to find out the “garbage” was the periscope of a Chinese sub armed with nuclear torpedos.
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:46
Put together doughy conservative guys and mere alcohol and a couple guns and next thing you know they’re blazing away at cans and rocks and trees and rockchucks and whatever else. It’s fucking inevitable.
You left out teh buttsecks.
folkbum said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:48
Somebody should make sure they know–given the title of this post–that land ho’s are unlikely to visit the seasteads.
moron said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:48
Allons, enfants de la Patri-DUH.
moron said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:51
If the plan is to live outside of specified laws and engage in illegal trade, I don’t see why they’d need to kidnap somebody at all. The sex slave trade is illegal as well. It sounds like Thiel/Floaters see the advantage to having a female population as a combination concubinage (men’s “needs”), brothel (free trade), and service industry (maids) all in one.
This isn’t quite right, as far as Thiel is concerned. It’s an open secret that he prefers… the company of men. The total unappealingness of SeaWorld to women is a feature, not a bug.
papa zita said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:51
“Imagine a thousand chubby white computer programmers selling each other Amway, forever.”
One reason why I quit programming. Hated my narcissistic colleagues. If I knew what programmers would become, I’d never have signed up. They all used to be techno-hippie Unix types back when I started.
cur said,
May 29, 2009 at 19:54
I remember reading of how Gary Larson made the funny with the Far Side. Never show the event happening. Show the event just before or just after it occurred. The humor comes from people inferring the event. These guys are like a freaking Far Side comic strip but they don’t get teh punch line.
Drugs, libertarians, weapons, concrete island no necessary resources available for terrestrial mammals.
I think for the HBO special we should plant Pauly Shore on the concrete eutopia. Shit just writes it’s own punch line.
Pere Ubu said,
May 29, 2009 at 20:02
You know, it’s a shame that pic up top couldn’t be used as a setting for a, oh, say, animation with Lego figures ranting about going Galt.
Unless of course it could.
cur said,
May 29, 2009 at 20:02
And if their water desalination plant breaks down, I will be the first person there to offer John Stossel a glass of water at $100,000 a drop. Cash up front of course.
Pere Ubu said,
May 29, 2009 at 20:04
And if their water desalination plant breaks down, I will be the first person there to offer John Stossel a glass of water at $100,000 a drop.
q.v. the “Sir Walter Raleigh” episode of Blackadder.
Xenos said,
May 29, 2009 at 20:10
“a rocket engineer in New Zealand has set out to prove that you can build a small cruise missile for $5,000.”
I just love it. Trying nuclear blackmail with a couple cruise missiles when any navy with a ship with 15 inch guns can sit below the horizon and shell you with abandon until there is nothing left above the waterline. “Evasive manuevers!!! Oops! Uh oh…” I expect a big Darwin Award coming soon…
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge said,
May 29, 2009 at 20:23
It’s like Bob Newhart’s phone routines. He’d never tire of pointing out: “You know, nothing I’m saying is actually funny. It’s like a negative mold: the listener fills in the funny lines himself.” –paraphrase.
cur said,
May 29, 2009 at 20:41
Comedy is only funny if it involves the use of a straight man. Same with Republican public restroom sex.
actor212 said,
May 29, 2009 at 20:42
I will be the first person there to offer John Stossel a glass of water at $100,000 a drop
Dude, he’ll just filter his own saltwater with that totally manly, totally NotVillagePeopleBikerDude moustache.
cur said,
May 29, 2009 at 20:45
Also, damn you Tintin and Gavin M for killing a thread that I find amusing to no end.
I am going Gault right here and you can’t stop me.
Neener Neener Neener.
Looch said,
May 29, 2009 at 21:11
“Evasive maneuvers!”
“We can’t move, sir!”
“Ha, Seaman, I have thought of everything!”
“How so sir!”
“Well, Seaman, we will now deploy the ultimate defense.”
“Sir?”
“Begin rotating the platform, seaman!”
“Um….”
Even The Goddamn Batman, Whose Batcave Is A Micronation Of Sorts, Thinks That This Sort Of Shit Is Ridiculous said,
May 29, 2009 at 21:45
Ah, Sealand–the ratty old sea fort that tried to base its economy, if you want to call it that, on a Neal Stephenson novel. I’ve always imagined that the British government had planted a camera somewhere on it so that they could tune in once in a while for an easy laugh. Libertarians putting themselves on these sorts of platforms is the equivalent of fish jumping into the barrel voluntarily.
Poopy Mcpants said,
May 29, 2009 at 21:51
Brad,
there was a long running and extremely funny (but serious) thread over at tehpiratebay right after they got sued about starting a data haven, like those irish travellers in britain. You should check it out. I think those guys settled on buying a private island, but it seemed more like it was going to be a commune style burning man sort of thing. I guess commies are still doing the agent provacateur thing.
Jebediah said,
May 29, 2009 at 22:01
Where can I donate to make SeaLard happen for reals?
Because of when you rilly want to live by the law of the jungle, you have to accept that the biggest, baddest cats get to pwn you at will (well, you don’t have to accept it, but it’s going to happen anyway.) I predict that everything and anything of value would be stolen from them within a month, tops, since most chubby programmers aren’t much known for combat skills (meatspace combat, anyway – where only those of certain religions get to reboot and start again.) Sadly for them, they are not the biggest, baddest cats in any jungle – or TGIFriday’s, for that matter.
And I see someone else had a potpreneur college roommate. Mine was a Rand-reader who bought an ounce to sell at a nice profit. As expected, he smoked every last bit and then couldn’t cover the ounce that he had not yet paid for. Before dropping out, he was reduced to swiping change from my desk.
Scott P. said,
May 29, 2009 at 22:59
Mr. Wonderful should get a prize for his seasteader’s anthem above. However, I think the seasteader’s anthem has already been written.
Knights in White Satin said,
May 29, 2009 at 23:00
Why not just make a GIANT RAFT? With machine guns and bazookas (are bazookas used these days?). Didn’t these guys see Waterworld? Well, I saw part of it and it wasn’t pretty. In fact it was really boring.
Proteus454 said,
May 29, 2009 at 23:03
Before I continue, I’d like to point out that while I’m not a libertarian, I do value the contributions that they make to our political discourse.
Well, all I can say is you’re a more generous person than I, Brad my friend.
Some Guy said,
May 29, 2009 at 23:19
I encourage these dweebs to build their precious Secret Offshore Underwater Lairs. That way, when they get invaded and annexed by Russia or China, the US Navy can sit there and play their Fail Horn sounds.
http://www.failhorn.com/ <- give it a sec to load
Smut Clyde said,
May 29, 2009 at 23:43
Real Galters go Lagrange.
I may have said this before, but when I came across this sea-steading proposal, it took me back to the halcyon days of O’Neill Colonies. A lot of technological visionaries seriously thought that in a couple of decades they’d be living in orbital habitats, free from oppressive national governments, free to engage in social experiments.
To continue the analogy with orbital habitats, this is where I argue that the fragility of the technology required to sustain any ocean-borne seasteading habitat — and the general lack of tolerance for errors or free-thinking disorganisation — are likely to encourage a rigidly hierarchical social structure. Much as you would not want a nuclear powerplant or a nuclear submarine in the hands of a maintenance crew who operate on self-organising anarchist lines, on account of these being zero-fault-tolerant situations.
Gerald O’Neill himself noted in an interview at the time that of the most likely social structure for his habitats would resemble that encountered in aircraft carriers and Antarctic bases, i.e. a benign dictatorship.
Smut Clyde said,
May 29, 2009 at 23:47
I read a book awhile back about these types – I forget the title but the writer called the whole thing “fin de sicle hubristic mania”.
GREAT MAMBO CHICKEN (and the Transhuman Condition).
I don’t know where you people would be without me.
Rusty Shackleford said,
May 30, 2009 at 0:21
Great Mambo Chicken was a hell of a book. I actually read that.
Smut Clyde said,
May 30, 2009 at 0:36
When I was travelling in the Northern Pacific in the early 90’s, I was told that I could get a Tonga passport for $50K payment to the King.
If you don’t want to read the whole thing, you could just watch the play.
Edmund Schluessel said,
May 30, 2009 at 1:13
Why has nobody yet made a joke about how these guys want to spatter the entire world with seamen?
Smut Clyde said,
May 30, 2009 at 1:21
a rocket engineer in New Zealand has set out to prove that you can build a small cruise missile for $5,000
Turns out that he has been promising to do this since 2002, though the last update to his website was in 2004.
He claimed in 2003 that “the missile has been completed (apart from some minor work that is relatively inconsequential) and, to ensure that the testing will proceed at sometime in the New Year, it is no longer in my possession — but it is in safe hands.”
…also that his forced bankruptcy was a form of government persecution designed to stop him from displaying the missile, let alone testing it.
In case you are one of his financial supporters, and you want evidence that this missile project has progressed past the drawing board, he also provided Mythbuster-stye illustrations of how he built a fibreglass fuselage in his garage.
For further proof, he apparently wrote a book last year, and you can e-mail him if you want to be notified when it gets off the ground.
Sheesh said,
May 30, 2009 at 2:03
Hey everyone,
I hope this doesn’t get missed, now that new posts are around. There’s a really priceless Libertarian/Galt rant in the comments: http://www.alternet.org/politics/140253/seasteading:_libertarians_set_to_launch_a_(wet)_dream_of_%27freedom%27_in_international_waters/?comments=view&cID=1225490#c1225490
What I love is rants against the uselessness of our present society *on the Internet*. In the not-too-distant future a new wireless mesh network might evolve from voluntary participation — and a new hyper-linked web might evolve over top of it, while Sealanders fabricate ICs and attendant materials and market them free of regulation or coercion to customers with perfect information — at which point anti-state rants will be a lot less ironic.
Sheesh.
Sheesh said,
May 30, 2009 at 2:06
Hey WP,
Fuck you.
Link mangled, probably from length. Shorter.
Longer: http://www.alternet.org/politics/140253/seasteading:_libertarians_set_to_launch_a_(wet)_dream_of_%27freedom%27_in_international_waters/?comments=view&cID=1225490#c1225490
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist said,
May 30, 2009 at 2:11
Well, all I can say is you’re a more generous person than I, Brad my friend.
Libertarians make very important contributions. Those who have read Vonnegut’s Cat’s Cradle will recognize the term wrang-wrang.
Big Bad Bald Bastard said,
May 30, 2009 at 2:21
I guess the prospect of having to actually fend for himself without the comfort of the American military is too much for him to handle.
Perfesser’s just afraid that Mark Levin would take a fancy to his mouth.
It sounds like Thiel/Floaters see the advantage to having a female population as a combination concubinage (men’s “needs”), brothel (free trade), and service industry (maids) all in one.
Surely, Sam Schulman would parachute in, guns blazing, to protect theses females from rape, degradation, and concubinage. Of course, he would have to marry them all to accomplish this.
I think the breakdown of Seatopia would begin like this:
“Dude, you can’t just crap wherever you like! Use the latrines!”
“WOLVERINES!!!!”
Big Bad Bald Bastard said,
May 30, 2009 at 3:17
Companies that don’t want to obey patent laws, meanwhile, can use the platforms to “implement some portion of a patented process on a seastead” to sell cheap goods without paying royalties.
It won’t be a nation’s navy that’ll shell the platforms, it’ll be the Disney Corporation.
Xenos said,
May 30, 2009 at 3:49
Disney corporation? Do they still have that submarine ride at Disney Land? I wonder if they could put that out to see to take on the pirate seasteaders. Or maybe they could use the boats from Pirates of the Carribean, or the ones from Its a Small World.
Sheesh said,
May 30, 2009 at 4:10
Hey Xenos,
They got rid of the submarine ride at Disney World for sure. It had been replaced with something new (Little Mermaid, perhaps) the last time I was there… ~12 years ago.
Also BBBB,
I got a snort out of that. I think at this point Disney is beyond conventional navies and is going with orbital death-rays and what not.
Smut Clyde said,
May 30, 2009 at 4:26
When I become world benevolent dictator, I will make it mandatory for any speculation about sea-steading to include an acknowledgement of Kornbluth’s 1953 story “Shark Ship” as an antecedent.
Sheesh said,
May 30, 2009 at 4:40
As a service:
That and others can be found in this collection of Kornbluth stories.
Big Bad Bald Bastard said,
May 30, 2009 at 5:02
Now fess up… who wrote that “Instapundit” review of the Kornbluth book?
Smut, any talk of your benevolent dictatorship must involve an in-depth discussion of your army of Scarlett Johansson clones.
By the way, you may be interested to know that Scarlett Johansson has an army of Smut Clyde clones.
Brian X said,
May 30, 2009 at 6:09
Something tells me that none of these yahoos would even know how to build a workable seastead platform to begin with (hint: no fuckin way you’re building one of those things outside the continental shelf), never mind the logistics of running one. After all, it’s not like Roughs Tower (the official name for Sealand’s location) is exactly a marvel of engineering; IIRC it’s actually in water too shallow to be used for its intended purpose, sort of like Fort Jefferson in the Dry Tortugas.
Nylund said,
May 30, 2009 at 8:00
I’ve actually done quite a bit of research about people trying to start their own countries in the sea. It never ends well and none have ever stayed truly independent. In short, eventually someone tries to take you over and eventually you beg the closest country for protection. (This happened when a German firm tried to take over a “country” belonging to a couple that lived on an abandoned Navy platform off the coast of the UK).
Some libertarians also once tried to start a country on an “uninhabited” island in the South Pacific, only to learn that it was uninhabited because it was the ancient burial site of the natives that lived on a nearby island. Those natives then came over in boats with machetes and beheaded all the libertarians for desecrating their sacred island.
wiley said,
May 30, 2009 at 8:13
Any other islands like that? Do it again! Do it again!
sarah said,
May 30, 2009 at 9:58
brad, this is a great article! i’d read a little about sealand last year, but finding out that it is inspiring these meatballs is pretty amazing.
nylund, what was the south pacific island called?
Smut Clyde said,
May 31, 2009 at 2:06
Someone over at LGM reminds us how someone attempted to turn a coral reef into an independent island by dumping lots of sand and planting a flag on it:
Doctorb said,
June 2, 2009 at 9:49
What I’m reminded of is L. Bob Rife’s “raft” in Snow Crash (which, incidentally, is a great novel about libertarianism among other things).