May
1

Seeing The World Through Coke-Bottle Glasses




Posted at 6:10 by Tintin
paul_mirengoff_thumbs_up21
ABOVE: Paul Mirengoff does his best Lynndie
England impersonation


Paul “Shemp” Mirengoff, lawyer extraordinaire and extra-clever right-wing blogger, has exposed yet another fraud perpetrated by the mainstream media in its unending quest to demonize torture:

It turns out that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was not waterboarded 183 times in one month by CIA interrogators, as the liberal MSM widely reported.

Apparently a close examination of the documents reveals that the “3″ was typed in later by an un-named Obama operative using a Smith-Corona typewriter. In fact KSM was waterboarded only 18 times before he confessed to his plans to destroy the entire earth by hijacking an asteroid and flying it into one of the 12,371 strip-mall Taco Bells in Orange County.

Actually, Mirengoff’s breathless revelation is even sillier:

Instead, … 183 represents the number of times water was poured onto Mohammed’s face — not the number of times the CIA applied the simulated-drowning technique on him.

This new innovation in wingnut arithmetic has many useful applications. As in: “Your honor, I didn’t shoot my wife 53 times, I only shot her once with 53 bullets.” Or: “Mirengoff hasn’t said 500 stupid things. Instead he wrote 100 blog posts with 5 stupid things in each.”

170 Comments »

  1. I am first a thousand times said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:14

    so there

  2. N.C. said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:16

    So the CIA was actually giving Khalid Mohammad gentle showers, perhaps as part of a spa treatment involving facial treatments and cucumbers on his eyelids! This changes everything!!

  3. lolly said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:27

    Yeah, but I hear they made him eat 2 kinds of vegetables. Yech. As any 5 year old will tell you, that’s MEAN.

  4. g said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:27

    Oh. Did he examine the kerning?

  5. SomeNYGuy said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:28

    So it’s okay if I eat the entire pint of Ben & Jerry’s if I do it in one sitting?

    Thanks! I feel so much better. And bigger.

  6. El Cid said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:31

    I think the sessions are called “confirmations”, and the individual pourings of water are called “baptisms”.

  7. SomeNYGuy said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:31

    P.S. Sorry to carp, but I’m pretty sure it’s “Lynndie” and absolutely positive it’s “Shemp”.

  8. Newt Gingrich said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:35

    And I only married one woman at a time, so what the fuck are you liberal libertines bitching about?

  9. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:37

    But zomygod the left wants to suck up to head-cutting off terrorists and the LEFT has given aways all r sekrits and we need to cower under our beds/kill our government officials because no teabags without representing the Nations and Rush says commies are coming to take our guns!

  10. Pam Geller Oshry said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:40

    Sure, Daniel Pearl only had one head — but the Muslins cut it off a thousand times!!!!!!!!!!!

  11. El Cid said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:42

    Right wing research labs are working furiously round the clock, inefficiently and uninformedly but full of fury, to come up with a graphic representation of a teabag which is simultaneously tough and manly.

    So far they’ve not been pleased at their current crop of macho teabag iconography.

  12. SomeNYGuy said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:46

    So far they’ve not been pleased at their current crop of macho teabag iconography.

    Have they tried giving it a mullet?

  13. El Cid said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:47

    Have they tried giving it a mullet?

    Yes, but teabags don’t eat fish.

  14. The Second Vatican Council said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:51

    Yes, but teabags don’t eat fish.

    No, not since we let them off the hook. (See what we did there?)

  15. stryx said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:51

    Again with the counting and splitting and the wha wha wha?

    Empty Wheel crushed NRO’s Cliff May on this same point.

  16. Lesley said,

    May 1, 2009 at 6:59

    All of these wingnuts need to be waterboarded for reals.

  17. Rightwingsnarkle said,

    May 1, 2009 at 7:10

    Next up – the Powertools give us the answer to that age-old question: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

  18. Lesley said,

    May 1, 2009 at 7:37

    Saying they should be waterboarded was mean.

    How about.. lie them on their backs, bind their legs and arms, put thick gauze over their faces and just throw water over their nostrils and mouth. This is NOT waterboarding and it won’t even hurt.

  19. islmfaoscist said,

    May 1, 2009 at 7:53

    Not as wet as previously reported

    Huh wha? Because cramming 183 waterboardings into fewer than 183 torture sessions means… they dried him off more times?

    But the prospect of an actual investigation means they can no longer play fast and loose with the facts.

    Oh indeed, federal judges really appreciate having their time wasted and gravitas mocked by frivolous arguments like Shemp’s here. He might even win a special award called a “contempt citation”!

  20. FlipYrWhig said,

    May 1, 2009 at 7:53

    Separated at birth: Paul Mirengoff. Michael Musto.

  21. Christopher said,

    May 1, 2009 at 8:33

    So, Mirengoff’s argument is

    1. Stupid
    2. Wrong
    3. Would be immaterial even if it were correct

    and

    4. Is marshaled in defense of the most appalling possible behavior..

    His parents must be so proud.

    Oh, wait, let’s get into it:

    Mirengoff Spews, Instead, according to Joseph Abrams of Fox News, 183 represents the number of times water was poured onto Mohammed’s face — not the number of times the CIA applied the simulated-drowning technique on him. Abrams cites a 2007 Red Cross report which states that the terror mastermind was subjected to a total of “five sessions of ill-treatment.”

    So, that means that each waterboarding session involved… lessee, about 36 seperate applications of water to his lungs. With each application lasting, oh, let’s give ‘em a break and say 20 seconds, that’s… divide by 60… 12 minutes of drowning every week for a month. With a technique the government assured us was so brutal, so massively unpleasant that CIA agents usually can’t stand more then 30 seconds.

    Hey, here’s a fucking question, Mirengoff, why the fuck were we told Mohammed only was waterboarded for, what 2 minutes or so? Huh? Why the fuck have you pro-torture assholes felt the need to blatantly lie to us at every turn if your argument is so reasonable?

  22. Tim (The Other One) said,

    May 1, 2009 at 8:44

    Look; who do we have to torture to find out about the Swine Flu Terror Attack ?

    Is this too much to ask ? Wait, why are you all walking away ??

  23. Smut Clyde said,

    May 1, 2009 at 9:00

    So it’s okay if I eat the entire pint of Ben & Jerry’s if I do it in one sitting?

    Obviously your critics were making the mistake of itemising ‘Ben’ and ‘Jerry’ as separate applications of ice-cream, and once this is taken into account, there was only a half-pint of ice-cream involved.

  24. Grace Nearing said,

    May 1, 2009 at 9:14

    After a few more days of hard thinking, torture apologists will reach the conclusion that compassionate American interrogators were merely administering much-need nasal lavage to sand-clogged sinuses using the Neti pot.

  25. he flips said,

    May 1, 2009 at 10:01

    Wow, a heaven’s gate member douching nose demons. I love youtube.

  26. Another Kiwi said,

    May 1, 2009 at 11:48

    We used to idly wonder how much fish we could feed our cat and when would he stop. Or would there just be a dull popping noise and there would be Mr. Cat a la Mr Creosote.
    I now wonder and am actually even more interested as to how much shit RW bloggers and pundits are willing to eat in their unending quest to prove that a) they are always right and b) they are always victims of assorted nasty behavior by Liberals.
    Combined with the severe psychological stress of denying the in-your -face reality of their wretchedness this constant fecal diet must eventually lead to some sort of catastrophic failure of internal integrity. There must, at some stage, be a venting event that will dwarf the Krakatoa eruption.
    While it will not be pretty , it will have several interesting facets such as the height of the shit expulsion, the spread pattern of the effluvia and possibly most interesting, tremors triggering eruptions in nearby RW calderas.
    It goes without saying, that this will be good for the Republican party.

  27. Ted the Slacker said,

    May 1, 2009 at 11:56

    The evolution of a wingnut argument:

    Phase 1, the Abughraibean Period. We don’t torture. Only America-haters would think such a thing.

    Phase 2, the Kerryisafaggean Period. Who cares if a towel-head gets an occasional beating? Only terrist-loving America-haters, that’s who.

    Phase 3, the Leakstotehlibrulemmessemmean Period. So long as the guy doesn’t die, it’s not torture. Did you see what they did to Daniel Pearl, you libtard assholes?

    Phase 4, the Militarycommissionsactean Period (cf, coincided with the eruption of Mount Stbarbecuemcflipper). Intelligence obtained under enhanced interrogation saved lives. If you don’t accept this, you will lose the next election.

    Phase 5, the Spooksareshittingthemselvesean Period. Everything was specifically designed not to be torture, okay. Ergo waterboarding is not torture. Besides waterboarding was hardly used.

    Phase 6, the Releasedmemosean Period. Look you goddamn hippies, you don’t understand, waterboarding was used a bit more than we originally thought but way less than what official documents would obviously lead you to believe. Therefore this proves it was effective. Only America-haters won’t accept this.

    In truth, most nutz have not moved on from Phase 2 or 3. The higher life forms are pretty close to the Dontusemywordsagainstmeean Period, where they argue that – We torture and only America-haters would deny us this right.

    Which bearing in mind where they started off, proves the theory that the core rightwing is a mobius strip of stupidity. Someone here once wrote that, it is central to my argument.

  28. M. Bouffant said,

    May 1, 2009 at 12:12

    Do these gawd-awful fucks have a macro for “liberal MSM?”

    The torture is reading these bastards. So thanks for helping us out, gentlemen, by taking the heat for us & rendering it palatable.

  29. Smut Clyde said,

    May 1, 2009 at 13:28

    We used to idly wonder how much fish we could feed our cat and when would he stop.
    I think I’ve met that cat.

  30. javafascist said,

    May 1, 2009 at 13:38

    Obviously your critics were making the mistake of itemising ‘Ben’ and ‘Jerry’ as separate applications of ice-cream, and once this is taken into account, there was only a half-pint of ice-cream involved.
    But only a liberal fascist would eat Ben and Jerry’s anyway (damn vermonters.) If you aren’t a terrorist loving leftie then you have nothing to fear when we spy on your ice cream habits (not too mention countertops!) This is central to my point which has never been made before with such care or detail by using a bunch of anonymous email responses to requests I made because I’m too busy to look into the details right now.

  31. N__B said,

    May 1, 2009 at 13:41

    KSM was tied to an army cot, not a plank, so there was no board involved and therefore ipso-fatso there was no waterboarding.

  32. mingo said,

    May 1, 2009 at 13:41

    The correct word is ‘pour’, you libs. you know, like pouring tea or pouring beer. it’s really kind of nice, and refreshing, and way more than those nerve-wracking turrists deserve.

  33. 59 Les Paul Copy said,

    May 1, 2009 at 13:49

    How does a freakin’ housecat even know it LIKES fish? I mean, I’m guessing mine would absolutely FREAK it confronted with a live salmon, but turn your back to the dinner plate for a second…

  34. J— said,

    May 1, 2009 at 13:56

    Rahm Emanuel the Master Puppeteer strikes again!

  35. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    May 1, 2009 at 14:09

    The best part about releasing the memos is the shift it’s caused in the “debate”:

    Abrams cites a 2007 Red Cross report which states that the terror mastermind was subjected to a total of “five sessions of ill-treatment.”

    Pre-memos – The ICRC claims that detainees were tortured because they are an Islamofascist organization run by atheists who want to institue Sharia Law.
    Post-memos – The ICRC report is more valid thanthe forcibly released torture memos.

    Also, if you take a look at the linked report you’ll see that the “five times” thing is based solely on interviews with KSM. Thus Fox News and Mirengoof are basing their rants on the word of the 9-11 Mastermind!!!!

    By the way, I hope that all them Powertoolz readers click through to the actual report itself:

    …the ICRC clearlt considers that the allegations of the fourteen include descriptions of treatment and interrogation techniques-singly or in combination-that amounted to torture and/or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.

    Oh, since we’re now taking the word of KSM as being more true than the Bradbury memos, the last bit in the report is in regards to how well torture works:

    During the harshest period of my interrogation I gave a lot of false information in order to satisfy what I believed the interrogators wished to hear in order ro make the ill-treatment stop. I later told the interrogators that their merhods were stupid and counterproductive. I’m sure that the false information I was forced to invent in order to make the ill-treatment stop wasted a lot of their time and led to several false red-alerts being placed in the US.

  36. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    May 1, 2009 at 14:11

    Note: quotes copy-typed. Sukcly tipyngs aer mein.

  37. Pere Ubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 14:13

    I think I’ve met that cat.

    I KNOW I’ve met that cat.

    He belonged to the guy I was renting a room from several years back. The cat was about 300 pounds and jet-black and hated EVERYONE except his owner.

    Not a nice thing to meet a huge hissing ebony bandersnatch first thing in the morning.

  38. Pere Ubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 14:15

    wasted a lot of their time and led to several false red-alerts being placed in the US

    Pre-2004 election “Orange Alert” festival, anyone?

  39. Jennifer said,

    May 1, 2009 at 14:41

    Next up – the Powertools give us the answer to that age-old question: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin their pinheads?

    Edited for clarity.

  40. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    May 1, 2009 at 14:46

    As we’ve said before, this won’t matter much as long as there are no more terrorist attacks.

    Really? When did you say that before? Because you’re responding to a Rasmussen report released the same day of your post.

    No seriously, I actually want to know how long you’ve been hoping for more terrorist attacks.

  41. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    May 1, 2009 at 14:47

    Whoops. Imagine my last comment was actually tacked onto the correct thread, two posts down.

  42. J— said,

    May 1, 2009 at 14:53

    Sorry, it’s a Faux News link…

    The New York Review of Books has the pdf if you don’t want to link to Fox.

  43. PopeRatzo said,

    May 1, 2009 at 14:58

    Mirengoff isn’t the banality of evil any more, he’s the evil of evil.

    This one’s not funny. I come to Sadly, No every morning to get my funny on, and you guys give me this.

    In fifty years they’re gonna write books about how American bloggers parsed the difference between the act of waterboarding in its entirety as opposed to the actual individual pouring of water up a shackled man’s nose as he’s forced to lay with his head upside down.

    This shit is too evil even for me to laugh at. It’s 8am on a Friday and I’m gonna have to start drinking early just to get this sick bastard Paul Mirengoff out of my mind. I bet he self-identifies as a man of faith, too, the cocksucker.

    Thanks, Sadly, No. I’ll send you the bill for my rehab.

  44. Pere Ubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 15:04

    I come to Sadly, No every morning to get my funny on, and you guys give me this.

    Well… well… he kinda looks like Shemp Howard!

    No?

    *sigh* There isn’t a lot to laugh about here, is there?

  45. Cletus von Clausewitz said,

    May 1, 2009 at 15:10

    Concern about ejaculation considered premature.

  46. owlbear1 said,

    May 1, 2009 at 15:11

    Instead, … 183 represents the number of times water was poured onto Mohammed’s face — not the number of times the CIA applied the simulated-drowning technique on him.

    Paul, you keep using the word “simulated”. You very obviously have no fucking clue what it means.

    Just admit it Pauly, you want “Enhanced Interrogation Techniques” to be a normal procedure. “Get his mugshot and prints! Don’t forget to slap him around a bit for me! Har Har! Here’s teh List of rules! Har Har!”

  47. MzNicky said,

    May 1, 2009 at 15:44

    Next up – the Powertools give us the answer to that age-old question: How many angels can dance on stand athwart the head of a pin their pinheads?

    I like that better.

  48. MzNicky said,

    May 1, 2009 at 15:47

    This one’s not funny. I come to Sadly, No every morning to get my funny on, and you guys give me this.

    Fortunately for you, S,N! comes with a money-back guarantee.

  49. Cletus von Clausewitz said,

    May 1, 2009 at 16:02

    Mirengoff wan’t teabagged 183 times. He was merely dangled into 6 times on each of 31 teabagging occasions. In one month. Completely different.

  50. kingubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 16:04

    Fortunately for you, S,N! comes with a money-back guarantee.

    Plus, if you save up your box tops you can send away for the officical Gavin M. bobblehead. Sure, it may look like a bust of Voltaire in a Groucho nose, but if you squinch up your eyes real good it looks three nuns sharing a Giant Sammich.

  51. Cletus von Clausewitz said,

    May 1, 2009 at 16:08

    Your honor, the defense contends that the defendant did not, in fact, teabag the plaintiff 183 times. The defense stipulates that, on 31 occasions where teabagging was present, dangling into was made to occur six times. The defense moves that the complaint be amended to reflect these newly discovered facts.

  52. henry lewis said,

    May 1, 2009 at 16:08

    If your only tool is a Krauthammer, torturers won’t get nailed.

  53. henry lewis said,

    May 1, 2009 at 16:15

    He was merely dangled into 6 times on each of 31 teabagging occasions. In one month. Completely different.

    Plus he was too drunk to remember and his frat buddies promised they wouldn’t post the photos anywhere.

  54. LittlePig said,

    May 1, 2009 at 16:21

    Pere Ubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 14:13 (kill)

    Not a nice thing to meet a huge hissing ebony bandersnatch first thing in the morning.

    I know it’s early, but I will be REALLY surprised if I read a better line one.

    Bravo!

  55. LittlePig said,

    May 1, 2009 at 16:21

    One = Today. need more caffeine.

  56. Mandos said,

    May 1, 2009 at 16:23

    LEMON CHICKEN!!11!!!!!1!!

  57. Uncle Ned said,

    May 1, 2009 at 16:48

    Holy shit, has there been a disruption in the supply of anti-psychotic meds in this country?

    I mean, really, the “logic” presented by the wingnuts lately has gone way, way, way beyond any kind of identified crazy in the DSM-IV.

    There’s an almost Wiley E. Coyote versus Roadrunner slapstick and surrealistic absurdity to their views expressed lately.

  58. Bitter Scribe said,

    May 1, 2009 at 17:02

    Hey, if the torturers are going to go to the trouble of recording the exact number of times they waterboarded (sorry, “poured water on the face of”) this guy, the least we can do is allow a little nitpicking.

  59. actor212 said,

    May 1, 2009 at 17:02

    See? They were washing his face for him! That changes EVERYTHING!

    And because they were washing his face, this ingrate gave them unsubstantiated rumour and falsehoods that sent CIA and FBI agents on wild goose chases.

    It’s a good thing we didn’t give him a mani-pedi.

  60. Pere Ubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 17:06

    Breaking news courtesy MSN.com – racist assholes use flu outbreak to be, well, racist assholes:

    “This disgusting blight is because MEXICANS ARE PIGS!” an anonymous poster ranted on the “prison planet” forum, part of radio host and columnist Alex Jones’ Web site.

    and donchaknow Squawkin Malkin has been warning us for years about TEH DIRTY ILSMAOMESSICANS where this epee-demick done come from.

  61. Pere Ubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 17:11

    Link for the masochistic.

    A commenter on a fine upstanding intellectual site like “Prison Planet” being an idiot? Why, how is THAT possible? *eyeroll*

  62. Pere Ubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 17:16

    Oh, and from CNN.com:

    Ticker: Palin attacks the media — on Twitter

    Well, the first syllable’s appropriate, anyway.

  63. a concerned citizen said,

    May 1, 2009 at 17:33

    Twitter? Isn’t that the site where you hoot small-ly?

  64. Pere Ubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 17:35

    hoot small-ly

    Smoot-Hawley?

    Didn’t Taft sign that?

  65. Jennifer said,

    May 1, 2009 at 17:36

    Sarah Palin = the Tonya Harding of politics.

  66. Simba B said,

    May 1, 2009 at 17:39

    Didn’t Taft sign that?

    Taft only signed bills that had been buttered with bacon grease.

  67. Mysticdog said,

    May 1, 2009 at 17:58

    And he signed them with his tongue.

  68. Older said,

    May 1, 2009 at 17:59

    There has been no torture! None! And when I say “None”, I mean “More than we would care to admit”.

  69. jim said,

    May 1, 2009 at 18:00

    Mirengoff must’ve drank the bongwater from whatever the fuck it was that Greenwald guy was smoking:

    George W. Bush’s critics spent eight years feverishly accusing the administration of crimes. They had it easy because there was no serious burden of proof. But the prospect of an actual investigation means they can no longer play fast and loose with the facts.

    They’re guilty as fucking sin – by their OWN records – & anyone that can wipe themselves & form complete sentences can see … oh, wait.

    Lordy lordy, I just loves me some Interwebs Irony Du Jour:

    I went to see the unintentional black comedy, & right underneath it was a big fat ad for Carole James’ NDP Party (a provincial election is coming up here in less than two weeks) … so, uh, nobody tell Po’ Whore Line that they’re now slutting themselves out to a coven of pot-huffing lesbian socialists, mmmkay?

    I am DEFINITELY going to vote NDP now … thanks, Mr. Mirengoff!

  70. Pere Ubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 18:04

    slutting themselves out to a coven of pot-huffing lesbian socialists

    Interest, newsletter, yadda yadda.

  71. Lunch Lady said,

    May 1, 2009 at 18:04

    We don’t serve buttery bills on square pizza day.

  72. PeeJ said,

    May 1, 2009 at 18:23

    *sigh* There isn’t a lot to laugh about here, is there?

    Given all the teabagging talk, Nadly So!

  73. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    May 1, 2009 at 18:48

    … whatever the fuck it was that Greenwald guy was smoking

    That Abe Greenwald piece is a wonder to behold. I guess this means that Abe Greenwald is all for a full public inquiry, because that’ll be an epic shut-it to the Boosh-haterz.

    I’m still boggling at the fact that they are using an ICRC report to argue that Guantanmo inmates weren’t tortured. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised – after all this is either just George F. Will scale misrepresentation or garden variety wingnut reednigs kompreehensings. But let’s just go to that report one more time:

    …the ICRC clearly considers that the allegations of the fourteen include descriptions of treatment and interrogation techniques-singly or in combination-that amounted to torture and/or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.

  74. justme said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:02

    OT, but who am I kidding,

    How much nothing do they have? To what depths of idiocy can they sink?

    Well, how bad would it need to be before they trotted out Brownie to criticize the new administration’s emergency preparedness, for, y’know, being prepared.

    Möbius strip, my ass, this is a Klein bottle of stupid, filled to the brim.

  75. Pere Ubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:11

    they trotted out Brownie to criticize the new administration’s emergency preparedness

    omfg.

    And Neal Cadaver calls him a “sacrifical lamb”. Assclown, assclown, assclown.

    That farm in the middle of nowhere-New Zealand is looking better and better every day.

  76. Willy said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:19

    59 Les Paul Copy said,
    May 1, 2009 at 13:49

    How does a freakin’ housecat even know it LIKES fish? I mean, I’m guessing mine would absolutely FREAK it confronted with a live salmon, but turn your back to the dinner plate for a second…

    You’re eating it ergo it must be good.

    We had a cat that ate potato chips and spearmint gum. She would stick her head right into my mom’s mouth for the gum, between chews.

  77. PeeJ said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:23

    I’m surprised. I didn’t think even Fux “News” could be that st00pit™.

    So, who is the most spectacular FAIL from the Bush years? How soon will he/she be on Fux saying how the nigra is doing it all wrong?

  78. kiki said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:34

    Given all the teabagging talk, Nadly So!

    I like this. It sounds like a phrase that means something you know at an instinctual level, ie you can “feel it in your nads”.

    It’s not just so, it’s nadly so.

  79. Marion in Savannah said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:35

    Well, Condi was filmed saying that Al Qaeda is more dangerous than the Nazis ever were because the Nazis never attacked “the homeland.” (She didn’t explain why the Nazis would have attacked Germany, which is the only “homeland” I’m aware of.) I’m not particularly good with teh linkies, but I’ll give it a try:

    http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/04/30/rice-al-qaeda-a-greater-threat-than-nazi-germany/

  80. OneMan said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:35

    “…they trotted out Brownie…”

    Holy fuck. So the administration is “overreacting”.* By reacting, I suppose, given the previous bunch of asshats’ norms.

    Heaven forfend that the feds should save a goddamn life.

    *period placed just where I wanted it, beyotches.

  81. kiki said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:40

    Also, is it just me who hears the word ‘heinie’ whenever they read ‘H1N1′? Also.

  82. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:40

    Last night, I only drank one beer, it was just divided into ten to twelve twelve-ounce portions.

  83. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:43

    PeeJ said,
    May 1, 2009 at 19:23

    So, who is the most spectacular FAIL from the Bush years? How soon will he/she be on Fux saying how the nigra is doing it all wrong?
    ==========================================================
    I say Karl Rove is the most specacular FAIL.

    After all, he was the alleged genius/mastermind.

    The guy with The Numbers.

    And he destroyed the Repukelickin’ Party.

    P.S. Karl is already a FAUX nooze bloviator.

  84. PeeJ said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:45

    kiki said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:40

    Also, is it just me who hears the word ‘heinie’ whenever they read ‘H1N1?? Also.

    Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:40

    Last night, I only drank one beer, it was just divided into ten to twelve twelve-ounce portions.

    Oh great. Now I won’t be able to see or hear H1N1 without thinking of beer. How I want one. Now.

  85. kiki said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:47

    Just think yourself lucky ittdgy didn’t post three minutes earlier, or you’d be thinking of Karl Rove’s heinie.

  86. PeeJ said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:48

    Yeah, Karl Rove, creator of the Permanent Republican Majority. That’s some pretty spactacular FAIL on his part, I agree. And surely teh single most spectacular FAIL EVAH is teh W itself.

    But I was thinking more along the lines of the Brownie FAIL. Something specific, incomprehensibly FAILERRIFIC, perhaps tragic. Perhaps Brownie is it.

  87. Freudian Wingnut said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:49

    I’m HOT for KARL!

  88. Pere Ubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:49

    the Nazis never attacked “the homeland.”

    Well, there were those German spies/saboteurs they caught, but that was with that wuss-ass commie socialist feel-good “law enforcement investigation” bullshit we’re too smart to fall for these days.

  89. kiki said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:51

    The person I really felt sorry for in the movie W was the guy who plays Karl Rove. The actor is clearly no oil painting at the best of times, but I bet they had to “ugly him up” a fair bit to make him look like Rove, a man who truly has the face he deserves.

  90. zeppo said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:52

    You know, here is a question I haven’t seen asked anywhere. Emptywheel, of course, pointed out that footnote that said KSM had been waterboarded 183 times in one month.

    l thought that “one month” kind of interesting. I mean, 183 times is just astounding, considering we were originally told that the U.S. never waterboarded anyone and then it was maybe once or twice, we don’t really know, we just happened to destroy those tapes, haha, so we’re not really sure. But 183 times really does sound like a lot. But really, that’s only a single month! How many times was he waterboarded in total? Or did he just happen to start getting “the treatment” on the first of the month and it ended on the 30th/31st? (Let me see, 30 days hath Sept, April.. Screw it.)

  91. actor212 said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:55

    slutting themselves out to a coven of pot-huffing lesbian socialists

    Interest, newsletter, yadda yadda.

    Fuck that, where do I contribute?

  92. Bitter Scribe said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:56

    Well, there were those German spies/saboteurs they caught, but that was with that wuss-ass commie socialist feel-good “law enforcement investigation” bullshit we’re too smart to fall for these days.

    Actually, mon Pere, catching those Nazi spies led to Ex parte Quirin, the Supreme Court case that was used to justify extrajudicial trial and punishment of “unlawful belligerents.”

    Of couse, there would seem to be a world of difference between spies in the service of a sovereign nation with which the United States was formally at war, and some guy in a burnoose who somebody said was in al-Qaeda. But then I’m not a lawyer.

  93. actor212 said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:56

    Oh great. Now I won’t be able to see or hear H1N1 without thinking of beer. How I want one. Now.

    A beer, a flu, or a heinie?

  94. zeppo said,

    May 1, 2009 at 19:58

    Hey, the Nazis DID happen to torpedo some ships off the east coast. Quite a few of them, it turns out. They sank really good, they did.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Folks_at_137/pauk

    Does that not count as “attacking the homeland?” Or I guess those guys are so literal that “the homeland” stops at the gently lapping waves on the shore.

  95. zeppo said,

    May 1, 2009 at 20:00

    You know, the Nazis DID sink many ships off the coast of the U.S. during WWII.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Folks_at_137/pauk

    Does that not count as “the homeland?” Maybe the wingnuts are so literal that “the homeland” really means LAND, such that “the homeland” ends at the softly lapping waves upon the shore.

    (This is a repost, as my first post seems to have disappeard. If it comes back and there are two of these, my apologies. Damn Nazi WordPress.)

  96. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    May 1, 2009 at 20:01

    they trotted out Brownie to criticize the new administration’s emergency preparedness

    Now, if it were Arabian Horse Flu, Brownie’d be on firmer ground.

    Oh great. Now I won’t be able to see or hear H1N1 without thinking of beer. How I want one. Now.

    Well, it was a Koninginnedag celebration. Grolsch was the sponsor, though, so no liquid H1N1s (the other sort were in delicious abundance). The party ended early in deference to the attack on the royal family- since we’re talking about Nederlanders here, “early” meant 2AM.

  97. Ken Lowery said,

    May 1, 2009 at 20:02

    EUROPEANS DYING BY THE MILLION: No big deal.

    3,000 dead Americans: ROAD WARRIOR TIME! Fuck laws!

  98. Mirengoff said,

    May 1, 2009 at 20:07

    at 8:33 Christopher asked:

    Hey, here’s a fucking question, Mirengoff, why the fuck were we told Mohammed only was waterboarded for, what 2 minutes or so? Huh? Why the fuck have you pro-torture assholes felt the need to blatantly lie to us at every turn if your argument is so reasonable?

    The answer is that we were trying to keep the important secret that longer sessions of torture aggressive interrogation produce more lies intelligence than shorter sessions. But now, thanks to you meddling libruls, our Islamofascist enemies know the secret that longer sessions of torture aggressive interrogation produce more lies intelligence than shorter sessions.

  99. actor212 said,

    May 1, 2009 at 20:11

    The party ended early in deference to the attack on the royal family- since we’re talking about Nederlanders here, “early” meant 2AM.

    ::blink::

    Wow. They must have been in mourning or something.

  100. Ken Lowery said,

    May 1, 2009 at 20:16

    Also, nice to see Condi skating on a technicality there. Japan doesn’t count, they were merely Germany’s ally! So that whole Pearl Harbor thing is a non-issue.

  101. Pere Ubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 20:16

    since we’re talking about Nederlanders here, “early” meant 2AM

    ‘Course that therez probly some weird-ass Euro-socialYIST time there, unlike the proper clock GOD gave us in the Bible!

  102. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    May 1, 2009 at 20:16

    Wow. They must have been in mourning or something.

    Pouring libations to honor the fallen is an ancient tradition. In this case, though, the libations were poured down the gullets of the mourners.

  103. cowalker said,

    May 1, 2009 at 20:26

    at 19:40 kiki said,

    Also, is it just me who hears the word ‘heinie’ whenever they read ‘H1N1?? Also.

    I’ve come to think of it as “HunOne”

  104. Marion in Savannah said,

    May 1, 2009 at 20:28

    “So that whole Pearl Harbor thing is a non-issue.”

    She’s a quibbler par excellence, so in 1941 Hawaii wouldn’t count, not being a state and all… Anyway, who care what happens to the place that birthed Obama?

  105. Marion in Savannah said,

    May 1, 2009 at 20:28

    CARES. I can types reel gud…

  106. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    May 1, 2009 at 20:37

    ‘Course that therez probly some weird-ass Euro-socialYIST time there, unlike the proper clock GOD gave us in the Bible!

    They use metric clocks over there.

  107. JM said,

    May 1, 2009 at 20:46

    slutting themselves out to a coven of pot-huffing lesbian socialists

    Did that for a while. Eventually, I had to admit that my life needed things like air-conditioning and deodorant, and I bid the furry bunch good-bye.

  108. PeeJ said,

    May 1, 2009 at 20:57

    Happy May Day!

  109. actor212 said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:00

    Happy May Day!

    In French, “M’Aidez”

  110. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:01

    Happy May Day!

    Ahh, the anniversary of the end of major combat operations.

  111. g said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:01

    Oh, hey. I almost forget, since it hasn’t been promoted by Fox News for weeks, but today is May Day – the 20,000 person immigration-activist rallies will be going on this weekend in L.A.

    but, hey, seriously, Teabaggers Rool! all 50 of them.

  112. Got The Lowdown Projection Blues said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:07

    Convicting a party of federal crimes isn’t like making a paranoid “documentary” or writing a best-selling hit job. The charges have to jibe with reality

    ((sigh))

  113. Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is? said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:12

    Why is Sadly, No on Canary Island Standard Time?

  114. Righteous Bubba said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:13

    Ahh, the anniversary of the end of major combat operations.

    When the torture was over Bush was supposed to land on top of a state fair Tilt-a-Whirl, but alas those operations were never completed.

  115. M. Bouffant said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:14

    From the Chicken Noodle Network:

    STORY HIGHLIGHTS
    742 American adults surveyed on use of torture against suspected terrorists
    54 percent of those who go to services at least weekly say it’s often or sometimes OK
    In survey, people unaffiliated with any religious group were least likely to back torture
    President of National Association of Evangelicals yet to comment on survey

    Imagine that. Hypocrisy. Hunh.

  116. PeeJ said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:15

    Why is Sadly, No on Canary Island Standard Time?

    Because everyone here generally just wings it.

  117. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:15

    Happy May Day!

    Enchanting Walpurgisnacht!

    Obligitory Video Link

  118. kenga said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:19

    In this case, though, the libations were poured down the gullets of the mourners.

    Waste not, want not.

    And the libations hit the ground, eventually.

  119. FlipYrWhig said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:19

    They use metric clocks over there.

    Damn Jacobins!

  120. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:22

    Bush was supposed to land on top of a state fair Tilt-a-Whirl

    I can see the banner now:
    You Have to be This Tall to Ride.

    And all the silly moonbat lie-berals would have been pointing out how Boosh wasn’t really that tall.

  121. M. Bouffant said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:23

    Adding to g’s report, on the local tee vee news, we were advised that traffic in downtown Los Angeles will be messed up & to go to any demonstrations (There seem to be more than one.) by public transit. That’s today/now, not even the wknd.

    Sadly is on Zulu +1 time. Due to Daylight Savings, I think. Or Losing Time.

    And former president Bush wanted to parachute onto the Tilt-A -Whirl, to show up Poppy & his 80th b-day jump.

  122. PeeJ said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:23

    Repent Walpurgis.

  123. M. Bouffant said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:28

    Also:

    Hooray hooray,
    The first of May.
    Outdoor fucking starts today!

    (Offer available in Northern Hemisphere only.)

  124. The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:40

    @ PeeJ

    That was after Robin Trower’s time. I think the infamous Peter Frampton was their guitarist then. I’ve had Strong as Samson as an earworm for about a month now.

    Ain’t no use in preachers preachin’

    When they don’t know what they’re teachin’

    Of course Exotic Birds and Fruit is my all-time favorite album. God, I’m old.

  125. actor212 said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:40

    Why is Sadly, No on Canary Island Standard Time?</i

    Because we don’t twitter, we tweet.

  126. purpleOnion said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:41

    Stalin discovered that his gold watch was missing. He immediately called for the leader of the intelligence agency and demanded that the culprit(s) who stole his watch be found.

    A few days later Stalin found the watch under some papers in his office. He ordered the head of intelligence to his office to inform him that the watch was found.

    The intelligence honcho responded, “But sir, I am have five men who have confessed to the crime.”

    Torture is a great tool for extracting confessions, but actionable intelligence not so much.

  127. laym said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:42

    It’s maid’s day already? And I didn’t get anything for her.

  128. actor212 said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:43

    Of course Exotic Birds and Fruit is my all-time favorite album.

    Great bar in the Castro, too.

  129. Pere Ubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:50

    Repent Walpurgis.

    Repent Walpurgis, Said the Ticktock Man?

    Happy Beltaine, ‘bats!

  130. The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:51

    Seriously, though, this couldn’t be better. They’re trotting Brownie out as emergency-management sage? Katrina was when even the most deluded started seeing the Bush administration for what it was. More, please, more!

  131. PeeJ said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:55

    Exotic Birds and Fruit, fuck yeah. I bet more than a few of us had it on vinylin our younger days. You aint that old.

    Also, Frampton’s Camel was a decent album. If only he hadn’t beat it to death for the next five years….

  132. Mysticdog said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:57

    “Imagine that. Hypocrisy. Hunh.”

    A couple thoughts;

    1) “If it was good enough for Jesus, why can’t we do it to terrists?”

    2) “What do you expect, our holy symbol IS an instrument of torture!”

    3) “Its not like we are doing it to Christians.”

    4) “Jesus will forgive us.”

  133. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:59

    via Doughy Pantload and his editor-with-benefits:
    Anita Hill for Souter’s replacement.

    Would it piss the right off to no end? Yes. Would it be the sweetest FUCK YOU to Clarence Thomas? Yes.

    But those are just extremely tasty bonuses. From the end of the VF article:

    “I want my judges to understand that part of the role of the Court is to look out for people who don’t have political power, the people who are on the outside, the people who aren’t represented, the people who don’t have a lot of money, who don’t have connections. That’s the role of the Court,” Obama said. “And, yes, I want a woman on the Court. Absolutely,” he added.

    Sounds like Anita Hill to me.

  134. WereBear said,

    May 1, 2009 at 21:59

    And a Happy Beltane back.

    With an extra smidge of karma for the Ellison reference.

    I think the Republicans can split hairs with a dissecting scalpel all they want; they’ve reached the point where they now give the average Amurrican a squicky feeling, and that’s never a winning scenario.

  135. Smiling Mortician said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:03

    incomprehensibly FAILERRIFIC
    Doug Feith, perhaps?

  136. Batocchio said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:08

    What’s sad is that he’s probably the smartest of the Powerline boys. And funny, every time they poured water over KSM’s face, forcing him to undergo a controlled drowning that simulating dying, it was illegal.

    My favorite part is where he quotes, near the end:

    But the prospect of an actual investigation means they can no longer play fast and loose with the facts.

    Please don’t throw us into the Briar Patch, Mr. Cheney! I know you know that “We can’t handle the truth!”

  137. PeeJ said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:09

    ZOMFG! Anita Hill for SCOTUS! MOST AWESOMEST IDEA EVAH!11!!ELENTYONE!!111

    Fuck, now I’m wasting my day trolling da utube for Humble Pie. I like Humble Pie.

  138. Rusty Shackleford said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:11

    “30 Days in the Hole” roxx

  139. The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:11

    Specter vs. Hill II: Electiric Jigaboo!

  140. MzNicky said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:25

    Holy cow, fellow geezers. I was just thinking about Humble Pie the other day. Also It’s A Beautiful Day and Savoy Brown. I don’t know why.

  141. Pere Ubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:27

    That’s the role of the Court,” Obama said. “And, yes, I want a woman on the Court. Absolutely,” he added.

    Sounds like Anita Hill to me.

    WANT.

  142. MzNicky said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:30

    Anita Hill on the Supreme Court would be just about the sweetest thing to happen in the last 25 years, and that includes the Great Ass-Kicking of Nov. 2008.

  143. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:34

    Supreme Court Justice Anita Hill – Why not? Because it might hurt Thomas’s feelings? WTF, he’s a Supreme Court Justice – his “feelings” don’t mean shit – he’s supposed to be objective and what not.

    Let’s look at the Obama quote again:

    I want my judges to understand that part of the role of the Court is to look out for people who don’t have political power, the people who are on the outside, the people who aren’t represented, the people who don’t have a lot of money, who don’t have connections.

    c.f.

    “I want to look at law in a new way,” she says. “Where does the law end and where does its impact – if any – on people’s real lives begin?” In other words, can society be seen to be reforming itself by passing laws? How does what’s on the books translate in the real world?

    It’s not that she’s lamenting her Senate testimony ordeal or complaining about the results. The experience gave her a platform for important issues, a book deal, and name recognition that opens doors, if not ears, that otherwise might be hard to crack.

    Hill is the author of Speaking Truth to Power, recounting her personal background and experience as a witness in the Senate confirmation hearings. She is the co-editor, with Emma Coleman Jordan, of the book Race, Gender and Power in America, and has written extensively on international commercial law, bankruptcy and civil rights.

    Her choice of Brandeis for her new academic base was a very deliberate one, says Hill. “It’s the whole emphasis that’s on social justice that’s here.”

  144. You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:40

    OT, but I was perusing the nutjobs website for the teabagging tools (teapartypatriots.org), and saw this little gem:

    “As a side note, yesterday Michael Leahy, who was removed from the leadership of the Tea Party Patriots due to his inability to work in a cooperative group setting,”

    At least Liberals realize that small children can’t be put in leadership positions.

  145. M. Bouffant said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:43

    I was discussing Lonesome Dave (of Savoy Brown & Foghat – there’s one for ya) & his silver leather suit w/ someone just the other day, because that someone had Foghat on the car stereo.

    Geeze on, geezers!!

  146. PeeJ said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:44

    I need to mention here that John Dean told me (naw, not dropping names – this was at a book signing) that he “knows for a fact” that Biden had the goods on Thomas and could have knocked him off. According to Mr. “that little weasel” Dean, Biden – then the Judiciary Committee Chairman – held it back. Dean didn’t say exactly why Biden did so, complaining about Biden being more adherent to “DC process” than ideals.

    Hmmm, now that I think about it, here’s Biden’s chance to make it up to Hill.

  147. PeeJ said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:47

    I don’t want you, cook my bread,
    I don’t want you, make my bed,
    I don’t want your money too,
    I just wanna make love to you.

  148. PeeJ said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:51

    Here‘s Dean saying it in a less accusatory way.

  149. MzNicky said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:58

    PeeJ: And some making up to Anita Hill Biden has got to do, too. (“Backward ran the sentences til reeled the mind” — Tom Wolfe, I think, back when he was making fun of the New Yorker?)

    Also: Uriah Heep and Traffic.

  150. Lawnguylander said,

    May 1, 2009 at 22:59

    Anita Hill for Supreme Court is a great idea.

    So is Neal “Mule Fucker” Horsley for Leader of the GOP. You don’t have to register to vote for the post.

    Via.

  151. Pere Ubu said,

    May 1, 2009 at 23:05

    I want my judges to understand that part of the role of the Court is to look out for people who don’t have political power, the people who are on the outside, the people who aren’t represented, the people who don’t have a lot of money, who don’t have connections.

    Now that’s what a President SHOULD be saying.

    Of course, the standard wingnut response, blah blah activist judges ack gag flibberty-floo.

  152. Rusty Shackleford said,

    May 1, 2009 at 23:06

    I was discussing Lonesome Dave (of Savoy Brown & Foghat – there’s one for ya) & his silver leather suit w/ someone just the other day, because that someone had Foghat on the car stereo.

    It don’t rev if it ain’t got the Pev

  153. Dragon-King Wangchuck said,

    May 1, 2009 at 23:09

    Ben Smith with an update:

    Says he will seek “someone who understands justice is not just about some abstract legal theory,” but about how laws affect Americans’ daily lives. (3:08 p.m.)

  154. PeeJ said,

    May 1, 2009 at 23:12

    Canned Heat. James Gang, And such as.

  155. Rusty Shackleford said,

    May 1, 2009 at 23:14

    “Camaro rock”

  156. Rusty Shackleford said,

    May 1, 2009 at 23:16

    PeeJ, you need to dig up a copy of this.

  157. PeeJ said,

    May 1, 2009 at 23:23

    Holy shite, I haven’t even thought of TYA in at least 20 years.

    Thanks, Mr. S.

    FYWP. Also.

  158. Rusty Shackleford said,

    May 1, 2009 at 23:27

    PeeJ, I may be the only person in the world with that CD on my iTunes. Even went to the trouble to get the correct cover art. Funny thing is, it was released on Priority Records (back in ’91), which was a rap label.

  159. Rusty Shackleford said,

    May 1, 2009 at 23:54

    Not “ha ha” funny.

  160. g said,

    May 2, 2009 at 0:19

    Supreme Court Justice Anita Hill

    Awesome!

  161. MzNicky said,

    May 2, 2009 at 1:17

    Whenever I even think of Ten Years After –”I’d love to change the world, but I don’t know what to do/so I leave it up to you” I feel stoned, and I’m wearing a sheer flowing Indian-print top and ratty bell-bottom bluejeans and my hair’s down to my waist. I’m going to go weep now.

  162. MzNicky said,

    May 2, 2009 at 1:18

    Cream, also, and Leon Russell.

  163. Smut Clyde said,

    May 2, 2009 at 2:36

    I’m wearing a sheer flowing Indian-print top and ratty bell-bottom bluejeans and my hair’s down to my waist.

    [Checks in mirror].
    You say that like it’s a bad thing.

  164. Another Kiwi said,

    May 2, 2009 at 4:21

    I think the hair thing is length, not slippage.

  165. PeeJ said,

    May 2, 2009 at 4:43

    My hair extended only to my shoulders. I weep also, though, as there are pictures.

  166. The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge said,

    May 2, 2009 at 6:02

    Holy shite, I haven’t even thought of TYA in at least 20 years.

    Thanks, Mr. S.

    FYWP. Also.

    Ahem: http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/20506.html#comment-899584 (a href’s not working again.)

  167. PeeJ said,

    May 2, 2009 at 6:05

    Jeebus fookin thangy. I didn’t THINK about them, I just….kind of….PISS OFF!

  168. The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge said,

    May 2, 2009 at 7:01

    testing: I see. “a href=” doesn’t work if it’s the first thing in a line. Gotta remember that.

  169. Smut Clyde said,

    May 2, 2009 at 8:43

    I think the hair thing is length, not slippage.

    Also it makes a difference if I shave my armpits.

  170. MzNicky said,

    May 2, 2009 at 14:04

    Rev. Battleaxe: You know, I didn’t even pick up on that. I think if it’d had the “bees make honey” lyric in there I would have, tho — :- )

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