30
Blame It On The Chicken Tikka Masala
Sooner or later it was inevitable that some wingnut would blame the tragedy in Mumbai on the Mumbaiites themselves, arguing that their cow-free diet turned them into a bunch of curry-breathed cowards unable to stand up for themselves. That’s why ten terrorists kept the city of 19 million under siege for three days.
But what couldn’t be anticipated is that Ye Olde Butte Missile, whose sole act of courage in his entire lifetime was a decision eleven years ago to have his tuna salad on rye rather than wheat, would be leading the charge:
Somebody Get Me A Gun
This post … describes a microcosm of India’s failure to defend itself aggressively against Islamic terrorism. The hero of the story is Sebastian D’Souza, a picture editor at the Mumbai Mirror, who took one of the most famous photos of the terrorists in action …. D’Souza describes his experience at the railway terminal where many innocent Indians were murdered:
“I first saw the gunmen outside the station,” Mr D’Souza said. “With their rucksacks and Western clothes they looked like backpackers, not terrorists, but they were very heavily armed and clearly knew how to use their rifles.
…
But what angered Mr D’Souza almost as much were the masses of armed police hiding in the area who simply refused to shoot back. “There were armed policemen hiding all around the station but none of them did anything,” he said. “At one point, I ran up to them and told them to use their weapons. I said, ‘Shoot them, they’re sitting ducks!’ but they just didn’t shoot back.”
…
What is the point of having policemen with guns if they refuse to use them? I only wish I had a gun rather than a camera.”
If Mr. D’Souza ever wants to emigrate to the United States, we’ll take him.
I wondered earlier today how a mere ten terrorists could bring a city of 19 million to a standstill. Here in the U.S., I don’t think it would happen. I think we have armed security guards who know how to use their weapons, supplemented by an unknown number of private citizens who are armed and capable of returning fire. The Indian experience shows it is vitally important that this continue to be the case. This is a matter of culture as much as, or more than, a matter of laws.
Apparently, Hinderaker gets most of his knowledge about gunfights while masturbating to an old video tape of Rambo. The likely reason the police didn’t fire back is that their pistols or bolt-action rifles weren’t likely to be effective against gunmen wielding AK-47s. If the cop missed, he’d be dead before he could fire the next shot. There’s also this tricky problem of collateral damage — the cops wouldn’t want to hit bystanders, whereas the terrorists didn’t care. Instead of seriously thinking about the consequences of the mismatch in firepower between the terrorists and the station cops, Hinderaker prefers a racist explanation which turns a country filled with dusky people into a nation of cowards. Let’s just hope that, the next time Hinderaker dines in an Indian restaurant, his dal has strange “creamy” taste eerily reminiscent of snotchos.
WereBear said,
November 30, 2008 at 19:15
Here we go again; the problem is that the citizenry is not heavily armed enough.
It worked so well at that Toys R Us in California, after all.
Our Dead Selves said,
November 30, 2008 at 19:16
But but but!
Gunz is k00L & solve all of our problems! Just think, the 9/11 hijackers would be harmless if all of the people on those planes were packing heat!
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 19:26
Instead of seriously thinking about the consequences of the mismatch in firepower between the terrorists and the station cops
Thinking, seriously or otherwise, is not part of assrocket’s skill set. Given the level of conflict and social tension present in India (along class, caste, ethnic, and other lines), I somehow do not think that more guns would make for a more peaceful society (just look how well that has turned out here).
Alex Higgins said,
November 30, 2008 at 19:27
“I wondered earlier today how a mere ten terrorists could bring a city of 19 million to a standstill. Here in the U.S., I don’t think it would happen.”
The ability of right-wing bloggers to forget 9/11 when it is expedient to an argument is actually creepy.
Prehaps I shouldn’t speculate, but then maybe I should. My guess is that Hinderacker and the NRO crowd, despite their obsession with the supposed feeble-mindedness of victims of massacres, would, in the event a man armed with an AK-47 burst through their door, be swiftly reduced to gibbering and crying in their own excrement with not a single thought of self-defence or heroics remaining.
I wouldn’t blame them either, if they weren’t quite so keen in dropping ugly hints about anyone else in that situation.
P D said,
November 30, 2008 at 19:29
10 terrorists with rifles killl 300 people and paralyze a city for 3 days. Something obviously is wrong with the response. Your comment doesn’t sound serious.
dex said,
November 30, 2008 at 19:30
shorter hindraker: you say hostage, i say “pussy.”
Ted Willams said,
November 30, 2008 at 19:30
“pistols or bolt-action rifles”?
Be serious, everyone knows Mumbai police are only armed with rusty flintlocks and the occasional sharpened stick. Backward, practically 4th-world city, not like, say, Bombay or Dehli.
tontocal said,
November 30, 2008 at 19:32
Just like Dinesh D’Souza to make shit like this up.
Ripley said,
November 30, 2008 at 19:33
I’m confused…
leads to…
It seems we’ve reached an ideological and logistical paradox, here. So, American citizen, what will you be? A selfless and patriotic Ansel Adams with a camera? Or an uncounted
Joe the PlumberYosemite Sam with a Gideon’s Bible in your left breast pocket and a Smith & Wesson 637CT slapping against your right thigh?Peebsam Flute-Autocrat the Concierge said,
November 30, 2008 at 19:34
Wrong D’Souza.
Nylund said,
November 30, 2008 at 19:47
I have to mildly disagree. Yes, a cop with a pistol (and a moral obligation to bystanders) would be a sitting duck to an immoral AK-47 yielding terrorist, but its also sort of their job to own up to that risk. Any job which includes a willingness to give up your life as an official job requirement kinda sucks, and I can understand the desire to shirk that duty, but it is your job.
And, I don’t know how to say this without sounding like the crazies in the wingnut comment threads, but you’d think the cops would have some sort of tactical training to allow them to utilize their numbers to even the odds a bit (the photographer made it sound like there were many more cops that terrorists at the station).
Can anyone seriously imagine a group of standard pistol-toting NYC patrolmen acting this way?
But do I agree that a heavily-armed citizenry is part of the solution? No, not at all. A bunch of citizens with guns are likely to do much more harm (see Toys’R'Us shootings) than they are to ever be in a situation like this where they may be of some help. They’d fail any cost-benefit trade-off.
Pere Ubu said,
November 30, 2008 at 19:49
Shorter Assrocket:
“WE WOULDA CHARGED IN THERE AND SHOT THEM TERRISTS UP YEEEEEE-HAAAW!”
I think we have armed security guards who know how to use their weapons
And some of them even get paid above minimum wage!
If Mr. D’Souza ever wants to emigrate to the United States, we’ll take him.
For about 5 minutes, until he does something Hindu-y and Malkin, LGF, FreiRepublik et al start screaming “DHIMMITUDE DHIMMITUDE” and demand he gets deported back to his dusky country for being insufficently American.
I wondered earlier today how a mere ten terrorists could bring a city of 19 million to a standstill.
Christ, only twice that number brought a country of 300 million to a standstill, and still are having an effect on us even now.
Pere Ubu said,
November 30, 2008 at 19:51
Your comment doesn’t sound serious.
Pshyeah, ’cause what Assrocket wrote is just so much more realistic.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 19:55
The ability of right-wing bloggers to forget 9/11 when it is expedient to an argument is actually creepy.
I seem to remember several occasions when 2-3 gunmen with hostages tied up the police in LA or NYC for a day or two. They even made an obscure movie with an unknown actor named Pacino about one.
Joe Max said,
November 30, 2008 at 19:58
Yes, we know how such a confrontation would have gone down in the USA! USA! USA!
We know because the LAPD showed us how easy it is for uniformed cops armed with pistols can take down heavily armed perps in North Hollywood about ten years ago…
http://harrymarnell.net/officer.htm
Pere Ubu said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:01
Let’s just hope that, the next time Hinderaker dines in an Indian restaurant, his dal has strange “creamy” taste eerily reminiscent of snotchos.
I am a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very bad person for thinking this very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very funny. Food adulteration is no laughing matter, and the mere suggestion that some chef or waiter in a restaurant Mr. Hindraker would attend would do something so low and vulgar as to add, let’s just be prudent here, something vile in terms of bodily fluids to Mr. Hindraker’s food in a kind of reverse-Galt move just because Mr. Hindraker is not only a nasty piece of work but is a conservative and therefore probably a shitty tipper is so seriously wrong that I shouldn’t find any kind of amusement in it.
.
.
.
snotchos! *snicker*
jurassicpork said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:02
Not a word, huh, about the brave Indian commandos who finally killed all but one of the terrorists? Tsk, tsk.
You’d think these stories were right out of the Onion: Priest equates vote for Obama with sin; Psy Ops to merge with MSM; war profiteer advertises on network news. But, sadly, enough, they’re real. All too real.
Comrade Rutherford said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:03
Republicans have no compassion or empathy for anyone other than themselves. They have no understanding of restraint. They fantasize about untrained citizens making clean sniper-like kill shots with a short-barreled pistol from 100 yards. They have no feelings for the innocent bystanders that would be murdered by vigilante’s indiscriminate bullets. Being a Republican means being a narcissistic sociopath whose every thought and action results in misery and suffering of everyone nearby. Party of Life, my ass.
jurassicpork said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:03
Not a word, huh, about the brave Indian commandos who finally killed all but one of the terrorists? Tsk, tsk.
You’d think these stories were right out of the Onion: Priest equates vote for Obama with sin; Psy Ops to merge with MSM; war profiteer advertises on network news. But, sadly enough, they’re real. All too real.
fardels bear said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:04
19 people attacked the US on Sept. 11, 2001, and the rightwing basically gave up on democracy: they DEMANDED the unitary executive, they DEMANDED that we torture people, they DEMANDED that we suspend our Constitutional rights.
So Assholerocket can fuck himself: the behavior of the Indians has been much, much better than his behavior in the face of terrorism.
Pere Ubu said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:05
for being insufficently American
“insufficently assimilationist” is what I was looking for and couldn’t think of. Please revise your copy.
WereBear said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:07
Seems to me even the Wildest Cities of the West started having a “no guns in town” rule.
But even obvious reasoning powers do ever elude the wingnut.
mikey said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:10
If Mr. D’Souza ever wants to emigrate to the United States, we’ll take him.
Oh, Butt Missile is in charge of Immigration now? Who up and made HIM the decider.
Me, I’m gonna withhold judgement on Mumbai’s cowardly cops at this point.
Just don’t know enough to make the call. If they had a shot, with a clear background and didn’t take it, they were derelict in their duty. But what were they seeing? How good a shot did they have? What was in the background. How fast did all this happen? What about their responsibility to protect civilians, getting them to cover, evac’ing the wounded?
Nah, it’s pretty easy for one dude to see things a different way when it’s somebody else who owns the responsibility for acting, and getting it right. Maybe it’ll turn out that the whole lousy passel of cops in the train station were mincing cowards under fire. But somehow I’m expecting the outcome to be a little more complex, a little more nuanced than that.
AssRocket doesn’t do complexity very well, so we’ll just disregard his rantings too…
mikey
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:10
for being insufficently American
You mean like not eating at McDonalds and being a *gasp* vegetarian (as most higher caste Hindus are).
Pere Ubu said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:18
being a *gasp* vegetarian
Oh, well, jeezus christ on quaaludes, he might as well tattoo “I AM A COMMIE” on his forehead!
Arky 4 That 1 said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:19
Yes, an established chain of command is soooo yesterday. The world would be much better if police took their orders from random strangers who might or might not know exactly what the fuck is going on. Next FudBuster will insist that soldiers should take orders from bloggers.
Nimrod Gently said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:19
How many D’Souzas are there anyway? It’s not as if it’s a particuarly Indian name.
amocz said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:21
Good idea! But…precisely how are the real police going to be able to distinguish between the “terrorists” and the “armed private citizens” who are “returning fire” in a crowd?
Sounds like those “private citizens” may need to pack some body armor along with their “heat”.
Anybody stupid enough to pull out a gun in a melee situation, who is not wearing the official uniform of the legitimate police authorities, is just asking to be hunted down like an animal and summarily shot, because it just isn’t practical for the cops to stop the firefight while they verify that you have a valid “concealed carry” license for your piece.
That said, I recommend that Hindy and Gun Counter Gomer go for it!
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:26
How many D’Souzas are there anyway? It’s not as if it’s a particuarly Indian name.
Did a little Googling and confirmed my impression. Dinesh’s family are originally from Goa (though he was born in Mumbai). Goa was the first European colony established in India by the Portuguese. The D’Souzas would either be descendants of Portuguese miscegenation or else their ancestors adopted a Portuguese name.
His Grace said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:27
Most soldiers, cops and security guards don’t have a death wish. They have families, loved ones and well, generally have an aversion to dying like any normal human being. The ones that do generally don’t make good soldiers, cops or security guards. On the other hand, having a death wish will make you a highly effective terrorist.
For the life of me, I do not understand the mindset of a person who sees a highly confused chaotic situation, where bullets are ricocheting and you face an uncertain, hard to identify enemy with loads of panicking people and think “woah, wouldn’t it be great if all of those scared shitless individuals were packing heat?”
Teaflax said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:31
Actually, Chicken Tikka Masala is a Scottish dish. It is based on the Indian dish Chicken Tikka, but served in a tomato sauce that originated in Glasgow.
Peebsam Flute-Autocrat the Concierge said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:33
How many D’Souzas are there anyway?
Tons. It’s India. Yes it’s a Portuguese name but anybody having regular contact with a varied population of Indians will bump into a D’Souza now and then.
OriGuy said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:34
Probably quite a few. Dinesh was born in Mumbai. It’s a Portuguese name; there are a lot of people with them around the old Portuguese colony of Goa. I have a co-worker named Fernandes from India, who is Catholic.
MzNicky said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:35
From what I read in the NYT this a.m., it wasn’t “cowardice” so much as that the Indian police were poorly equipped. One sharpshooter is quoted as saying there was so much mayhem and people running everywhere that they were afraid most of the time to try to take a shot at the terrorists for fear of accidentally shooting a civilian.
Also: Early reports that the gunsmen were checking for US and UK passported people as their primary victims are apparently false. Eyewitnesses say the gunsmen were randomly shooting everyone they could.
Also: I don’t know, but is this actually Islamic terrorism, as ButtMissle says? Does anyone really know yet? The attackers were all Pakistani, I think, and Pakistan and India have had violent differences for decades over, for ex., Kashmir, as well as religious conflict. I can’t find out anywhere though if these attackers were affiliated with Al Qaeda or any other Islamic terrorist groups.
Nimrod Gently said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:36
Oh, that’s right, the Portuguese had that bit.
Jennifer said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:36
I guess Assrocket has forgotten about this.
tensor said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:38
When American Christians take down a heavily armed gunman in their own church, in front of their own children, this receives precious little praise from our self-proclaimed Wingnut Citizen Vigilantes. Oh yeah, the killer’s home was infested with right-wing hate screeds from the likes of Coulter, and the churchgoers didn’t use weapons to eliminate this threat to their families. Wingnuts have long grown accustomed to fighting reality, tooth and nail — it’s the only combat most of them will ever know — but a story seemingly designed to destroy their mythology can have denial as their only response.
Peace to the victims of terrorism everywhere, and may we now begin using effective methods against terrorists, not this (Beavis & Butthead voice) “hunhya hunhya DEAD OR ALIVE hyunh hyunh!!”
Arky 4 That 1 said,
November 30, 2008 at 20:38
He thinks security guards are armed? How the fuck can this be an unknown? Does the man never leave his house? For the record (at least in D.C.) I’ve never seen an armed security guard. Most security guards can’t be trusted with nail clippers because they’re the people who couldn’t make the cut for any of our 9,000 law enforcement agencies. As for the unknown private citizens (again I’m referring to D.C. which is more likely to be hit by terrorists than whatever security guard free utopia FudBuster inhabits), the unknown private citizens would have to ask the terrorists to wait while they ran home to fetch their guns.
And then they’d probably be arrested if said guns hadn’t been registered.
Lord the man is 31 flavors of stupid.
His Grace said,
November 30, 2008 at 21:19
This has me wondering if assrocket thinks that the Mall Ninja is real and drives an armoured golf cart featuring launch rails for shrikes.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 21:29
Damn! What happened there? I was Umzugged.
Pere Ubu said,
November 30, 2008 at 21:30
an armoured golf cart featuring launch rails for shrikes
The missile or the bird?
Pere Ubu said,
November 30, 2008 at 21:33
Also: Early reports that the gunsmen were checking for US and UK passported people as their primary victims are apparently false.
*waiting for the retraction of knee-jerk anti-Muslim rhetoric from wingnuts, including our very own Goshpodin Pravda, over this*
*crickets*
*crickets*
*crickets*
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 21:34
MzNicky -
We do not in fact know the nationalities of most of the attackers. The only known surviving attacker, who is in custody, is a Pakistani. Earlier reports, however indicated that the attackers spoke perfect Hindi, which would indicate that they are Indians rather than Pakistanis (whose national language is Urdu). Remember that India is the second largest Muslim country in the world even though Muslims make up only about 13-14% of the population. There are huge tensions between Hindus and the Muslim minority which have been exacerbated by the Hindu nationalist movement over the last decade.
His Grace said,
November 30, 2008 at 21:37
See here.
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist said,
November 30, 2008 at 21:40
the attackers spoke perfect Hindi, which would indicate that they are Indians rather than Pakistanis (whose national language is Urdu).
Aren’t they the same apart from the writing system?
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 21:46
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist -
No. They are very similar, but Urdu is a Hindi-Arabic creole. The grammar is mostly Hindi, but the vocabulary contains a lot of Arabic (and Farsi) words. The standard greeting in Hindi is “Namaste” while in Urdu it is “Gya hal he?” as an example. There are Hindi speakers in Pakistan (Urdu is the national language as Hindi and English are in India, but both countries are multilingual), but their acents are very different from those in India (say the difference between NYC and Georgia).
mediajunk said,
November 30, 2008 at 21:51
Big words soar like ravens after a steady diet of Cheetos, Rambo and Heritage Foundation cash.
These are the same fuckers who said they would have tackled the Virginia Tech gunman.
g said,
November 30, 2008 at 21:52
I think we have armed security guards who know how to use their weapons
Actually, I believe most private security firms discourage their employees from premptively shooting people who “look like backpackers” on the street.
WortPresse said,
November 30, 2008 at 21:53
Diese Webseite ist aufgrund eines Serverumzugs derzeit nicht erreichbar. Bitte versuchen Sie es später noch einmal.
WortPresse said,
November 30, 2008 at 21:55
Traurig , Nein!
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 21:55
Actually, I believe most private security firms discourage their employees from premptively shooting people who “look like backpackers” on the street.
And I would actively encourage private security guards, at least most of the ones I have seen, to avoid shooting at anything, living or otherwise. Pimply faced adolescents and catatonic retires do not exactly inspire confidence that way. Most of them are more reminiscent of Police Academy than Rambo.
Green Eagle said,
November 30, 2008 at 21:58
Can’t Mr. Assrocket remember the Washington D.C. sniper from a couple of years ago? Two guys and an old car with a hole in the trunk kept people terrified for weeks before being caught, and they had no connection or support from foreign governments or well-funded terrorist organizations.
So, grow up, guy. It seems more likely by the day that these gunmen were from a group supported by our good buddies, the Pakistanis. Maybe if Bush hadn’t spent the last eight years coddling Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the world’s two biggest supporters of Islamic terrorism, while bombing the innocent with glee in Iraq and Afghanistan, things like this would not be so common.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 21:58
WortPresse -
I see someone else got Umzugged (whatever the fuck that is) as well.
protected static said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:02
re: d’Souza - my sister-in-law married an Indian from Goa named Manuel… Many of the Indian Catholic families from Goa have Portuguese names.
(and to describe India as ‘multilingual’ is like describing France as ‘producing a couple kinds of cheese’)
g said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:02
I am very well acquainted with people who own or manage private security firms. Being armed is a very rare assignment. Very rare, and usually only assigned to a very small elite group of individuals. Security guards’s job description is to watch over things, report, deter, or detain. They’re not supposed to be enforcers or, god forbid, commandos.
FWIW, I don’t think even armed security guards pack the kind of weaponry that would make it possible to shoot a bunch of armed gunmen across a crowded public square anyway.
El Cid said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:03
Before I got Umzugged, I tried to compare the pompous idiot nitwit wingers to their earlier complaints about how all the students at Virginia Tech should have been packin’ heat and started shootin’ at each other in the hallways as soon as they ‘uz suspectin’ an armed gunman was about.
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:05
DrDick - thanks for the language lesson.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:07
(and to describe India as ‘multilingual’ is like describing France as ‘producing a couple kinds of cheese’)
Same is true of Pakistan. CIA World factbook lists the following languages:
Punjabi 48%, Sindhi 12%, Siraiki (a Punjabi variant) 10%, Pashtu 8%, Urdu (official) 8%, Balochi 3%, Hindko 2%, Brahui 1%, English (official; lingua franca of Pakistani elite and most government ministries), Burushaski and other 8%.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:08
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist -
De nada. It is what happens when you hang out with cultural anthropologists. As it happens, I have long had a mild interest in South Asia, though I am by no means an expert.
Arky 4 That 1 said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:10
Mr. Inter-Colonic Ballistic Missile can’t remember when 19 guys brought the entire country to a screeching halt. He can’t remember that on two different occasions one person made our postal system into a death and destruction delivery system. He can’t remember anything, because where you and I have long term memory, he has Die Hard on and endless loop.
Where the hell does he live, anyway? It sure as fuck better be someplace terrorists are likely to hit.
(FWIW the Beltway Snipers were more like 6 years ago. I should be able to remember but between someone parking an airplane in the Pentagon and donning protective gear to open the mail and wondering if I’d be shot while I waited for the damn bus, that period is all kind of a blur.)
RUGGED IN MONTANA said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:11
If the Indians would just execise there 2nd Amendment Rites, there’d be no terrorism. Instead, there doin just what they did when the cowboys were at war with them, not using the guns that G*d gave them. Oh right, they don’t worship our J*sus G*d, therefore there gonna loose the war against terrer (as that Admiral what’s-his-name from the Army said, “Our G*d can beat up your G*d”, and he was right).
Johnny Pez said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:14
Nitpick: Mumbai = Bombay.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:15
Rugged -
Indian tribes did not and do not have 2nd amendment (or any other constitutional) rights because they are preconstitutional.
Nayagan said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:16
Dr Dick,
there are 14 official languages in India. Not two.
They certainly do eat cow in Mumbai, you just have to know where to go.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:17
Nitpick: Mumbai = Bombay.
Next you will be telling us that Kolkata is Calcutta.
Major Kong said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:18
I can see it now. The terrorists stand there awestruck while I draw my legally concealed Kimber Tactial Ultra, line up the tritium sights and calmly pick them off one at a time with well-placed .45 ACP rounds.
Actually it would be more like my body is shredded by automatic weapons fire before I even get my weapon unholstered.
Orange Tom said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:18
Earlier reports, however indicated that the attackers spoke perfect Hindi, which would indicate that they are Indians rather than Pakistanis (whose national language is Urdu).
Some of the attackers were photographed wearing red threads on their wrist, a Hindu practice… and recent investigations of a bomb attack in India that was originally pinned on Muslims turned out to be the work of a Hindu group attempting a “false flag” act to foment anti-Muslim sentiment there.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:21
Nayagan -
I stand corrected on the languages (something I realized after I posted that). I am aware that people (mostly lower cast or Muslem and Christian) eat beef in India, though most do not. I had many Indian friends in graduate school and knew several devout upper caste Hindus who sneaked down to McDonald’s for a bit of “forbidden fruit”.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:22
Major Kong -
Only if you are lucky.
RUGGED IN MONTANA said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:22
Indian tribes did not and do not have 2nd amendment (or any other constitutional) rights because they are preconstitutional.
Another DEMONcrap lie! All humans have a 2nd Amendment Rite as it is G*d given (unless there G*d is some sort of pansy who doesn’t belive in guns).
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:25
Orange Tom -
Yeah, that was a group of the Hindu Nationalists I mentioned in mine at 21:34. At this point we really do not know anything for certain about the origins and intentions of the attackers except that the police say the one they captured is Pakistani.
mikey said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:26
The tragedy, even crisis here (probably intended) is that even if it turns out not to be true (somewhat unlikely at this point,based on reports from the tango in custody) is that there is SO much suspicion in India about the activities of ISI around the Kashmiri separatists that there is very little likelihood that they will not be considered the responsible party, regardless of the evidence that comes to light.
The only reasonable assumption is that the Indian government will embrace the conventional wisdom that some elements of the Pakistani government supported and funded this operation. So the question that follows is “what will they do about it”. A government confronted by large-scale state sponsored asymmetrical attacks really only has two choices: Covert operations to destabilize the responsible government, perhaps even to the point of regime change, or a retaliatory attack - an overt act of war.
In short. This is NOT GOOD…
mikey
protected static said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:27
And that’s before you get into the regional variations and dialects… NYC vs. Georgia doesn’t even come close in some cases; it can be more like the differences between Québécois or Creole and Parisian French. We found out about a funny “who’s on first” sort of thing where one of my wife’s uncles took our son shopping one morning. The uncle is from the southern part of Kerala, and we were in the northern part; the uncle was trying to explain to the shopkeeper what my son’s name was - turns out it’s a homophone for something like “who” in one dialect of Malayalam and “him” in another. What’s his name? Who? Yes, him. No, who? That’s right, him. And so on for a few iterations…
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:27
Rugged -
Indian tribes, as preconstitutional sovereigns, have a God-given right to do whatever the fuck they want to (subject to proper approval by their legal guardian and protector, the US government as per Worchester v Georgia 1833).
mikey said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:28
It occured to me that many of you might enjoy this.
Spencer Ackerman on Kristol:
mikey
Loneoak said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:30
A dozen dudes bring a city full of Euro-Americans to their knees (NYC, DC, Madrid, London): EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED!!!ELEVENTY!!11 LETS ROLL!!!!!
A dozed dudes bring a city full of brown people to their knees (Mumbai): STUPID SWARTHY PUSSIES DON’T EVEN EAT MEAT!!!!111
It’s really quite elegant.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:32
protected static -
And the list was for Pakistan. As Nayagan pointed out, there are 14 official languages in India and dozens of other, smaller languages (which in India can be over a million speakers).
The CIA list for India:
Hindi 41%, Bengali 8.1%, Telugu 7.2%, Marathi 7%, Tamil 5.9%, Urdu 5%, Gujarati 4.5%, Kannada 3.7%, Malayalam 3.2%, Oriya 3.2%, Punjabi 2.8%, Assamese 1.3%, Maithili 1.2%, other 5.9%
note: English enjoys associate status but is the most important language for national, political, and commercial communication; Hindi is the national language and primary tongue of 41% of the people; there are 14 other official languages: Bengali, Telugu, Marathi, Tamil, Urdu, Gujarati, Malayalam, Kannada, Oriya, Punjabi, Assamese, Kashmiri, Sindhi, and Sanskrit; Hindustani is a popular variant of Hindi/Urdu spoken widely throughout northern India but is not an official language (2001 census)
Pere Ubu said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:32
A government confronted by large-scale state sponsored asymmetrical attacks really only has two choices: Covert operations to destabilize the responsible government, perhaps even to the point of regime change, or a retaliatory attack - an overt act of war.
In short. This is NOT GOOD…
Pretty much what I was thinking.
Nightmare scenario right now is India using this as their 9/11 to justify war with Pakistan.
xyzzy said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:33
Um….
So, I don’t know how accurate the original story is, but let’s assume that it is. The automatic-weapon-versus-handgun argument falls pretty flat. (”Bolt-action” — really? Seriously, does anyone really think that there are cops wandering around with bolt-action rifles? Hahaha! Are you for real? Come on, admit it: you really wrote “muzzle loaders” the first time, right? Or was that “musket?”) In the panic and pandemonium created by people firing into a crowd, I doubt that anyone would notice a single handgun shooting back, and hence the “dead before he could fire the next shot” thing seems pretty unlikely.
And I really don’t buy the cops-don’t-wanna-hit-bystanders argument, either. When dudes are spraying automatic weapons fire all over the place, it seems like a pretty stupid debate. “Golly,” says the cowering cop, “I better not shoot. My single bullet might hit an innocent bystander! One that wasn’t already hit by the hundreds of bullets flying around already, I mean.”
As much as I hate the Butt Missile, I can’t say that this post added much. How about questioning the original quote instead? Seriously, isn’t it more racist to accept that Indian cops may be such withering flowers and to defend them as such, than to question some jackass who obviously has his own preconceptions? Perhaps this D’Souza creep never saw “masses of armed police who refused to shoot back” but rather only a single man. Because yeah, it also seems pretty fucking unlikely that this guy was running about from one unresisting cowering mass to the next, urgently entreating them to fight back and oblivious to the gunfire around him. Methinks he was cowering like everyone else, infuriated by his helplessness, and transferring his anger.
But yeah, Hinderaker is still a goddamn moron.
Orange Tom said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:34
A government confronted by large-scale state sponsored asymmetrical attacks really only has two choices: Covert operations to destabilize the responsible government, perhaps even to the point of regime change, or a retaliatory attack - an overt act of war.
Yeah, destabilising a nuclear power that probably has somewhat dodgey control of it’s nukes, which could end up in the hands of extremists or even grabbed by outside powers to further the kabuki of “the war on terror”.
Orange Tom said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:40
And I really don’t buy the cops-don’t-wanna-hit-bystanders argument, either. When dudes are spraying automatic weapons fire all over the place, it seems like a pretty stupid debate. “Golly,” says the cowering cop, “I better not shoot. My single bullet might hit an innocent bystander! One that wasn’t already hit by the hundreds of bullets flying around already, I mean.
My first thought was “Hmm…….I wonder if those cops are actually issued ammo, or are those guns there for the purpose of fear and respect only?”. Hell, there have been plenty of instances where US troops have had their ammo taken away from them to keep tense situations from getting out of control. I don’t condemn or condone this, but there are examples of it.
protected static said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:43
xyzzy - actually, yes… many of the cops in India do have bolt action rifles. India’s a lot like Israel when it comes to weaponry (if for different reasons) - they don’t throw anything away, they rebuild and upgrade.
Arky 4 That 1 said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:44
Yuh-huh! And their eyes would turn to Xs and they’d go *Ping!* when they fell over, just like the duckies at the shooting gallery. It’s true! I saw it in “A Christmas Story.”
And when you ran out of bullets the surviving bad guys throw away their guns and rush up to fight you hand-to-hand, but they’ll circle menacingly while you deal with them one at a time.
Then you get the girl. Unfortunately, Angelina Jolie isn’t available so you have to settle for Ann Coulter.
kiki said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:47
It’s funny how the ‘Hind’ part of Hindrocket’s name gets comedically altered to reveal its Freudian intent, but the ‘rocket’ part remains unmolested.
I therefore humbly suggest he be known as ‘Buttpenis’ from now on.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:47
Orange Tom and xyzzy -
The Indian police in the photos I have seen seem to have been issue automatic weapons, though I did see some bolt action rifles (snipers I expect), and clearly had ammunition as I saw several exchanging fire with the attackers on TV. That aside, police in any developed country (and India qualifies here) are stringently trained not to endanger civilians. Period. It is better to let the suspects escape than to injure a single civilian. This standard is not always observed (which is why we have civilian review boards in US cities), but it remains a central part of police training. I knew a lot of cops when I lived in Chicago.
xyzzy said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:48
Good point, Orange Tom.
My point was more to question Clif’s reasoning on this one. If I were unarmed (either without a weapon or with an ammo-less weapon), I am pretty confident that I’d look for cover in a situation like that. But if I were armed… who knows?
At any rate, I know a lot of cops, and they’re trained pretty well. In a situation like that, training/instinct takes over. If those Indian cops were armed, I have no doubt they’d be fighting back — which makes me doubt the first/original reporter.
Smut Clyde said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:49
there are 14 other official languages: Bengali, Telugu, Marathi, Tamil, Urdu, Gujarati, Malayalam, Kannada, Oriya, Punjabi, Assamese, Kashmiri, Sindhi, and Sanskrit;
What about Romani?!
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:49
I therefore humbly suggest he be known as ‘Buttpenis’ from now on.
I actually favor “Buttweenie” myself.
xyzzy said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:54
protected static - hey, if I’m wrong, then I stand corrected. Although I have to say, that guy looks like regular army, not police.
The diff here, DrDick, is that they weren’t trying to escape. When it’s clear that they’re just wandering around killing people, I’m fairly confident that the cops would figure out that they have to do something.
At any rate, none of this obviates my single point that the original story is probably just bullshit. It was quoted by Hinderaker, after all.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:54
What about Romani?!
1) the Rom are probably from the area that is now Pakistan
2) they pretty much all left several centuries ago
3) if they are there, they fall into that “other” category
In India, a language can have over a million speakers and represent less than .01% of the population. In Pakistan, that would be less than .1%.
Smut Clyde said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:56
Most security guards can’t be trusted with nail clippers because they’re the people who couldn’t make the cut for any of our 9,000 law enforcement agencies.
This only strengthens Mr Buttraker’s point, so long as you change his advice to the Indians from “have more security guards wandering the street” to “have more Blackwater mercenaries wandering the street”.
paul said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:03
Mr. Inter-Colonic Ballistic Missile is too good. And ICBM is a homophone for his skivvies if he were ever caught up in something like this.
How is that no one with a concealed carry permit is ever on the scene at Luby’s, Virginia Tech, Columbine etc massacre?
xyzzy said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:04
I think your math is a bit off here, DrDick. You just implied that the population of India is over ten billion peeps. (Off by a factor of 10.)
Fozzetti said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:08
Ssecurity Gardin’ is good work for the student. My 2 brothers & 1 sister worked their way thru college (along with loans) working as security guards at night. My husband did the same when he was working on his PhD. They have some hysterical stories about the job, and none include firearms.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:09
I think your math is a bit off here, DrDick. You just implied that the population of India is over ten billion peeps. (Off by a factor of 10.)
You are correct. There are reasons I am not an engineer (though may father was one who did calculus in his head) and conversions to percentages in my head with a cold has never been my strong suit.
WereBear said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:12
Before I got “umzug”‘ed, (which is German for removal, just for chuckles, I suppose) I was going to refer to him as Assblast.
Which I will:
You know, Assblast, terrorism handling advice is as terrorism handling advice does. Shall we do a trial run of having everyone above the age of 18 pack heat for a while? Say, in Minnesota?
Personally, I can’t wait for Granny to whip out a pistol on Gold Values day down at the Rite Aid. That’ll teach them to run out of her favorite laxative.
xyzzy said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:12
Because it’s illegal to carry at all (unless you’re a cop) at public schools or any private place that expressly forbids it (like some stores). Of course that varies from state to state, and I dunno if it’s true in Virginia, but it was true in Colorado the last time I checked. A concealed carry permit is not a license to do whatever you want.
protected static said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:13
xyzzy - Can’t say - it’s a terrible picture - but khaki uniforms on police are pretty common in India.
Orange Tom said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:14
The Indian police in the photos I have seen seem to have been issue automatic weapons, though I did see some bolt action rifles (snipers I expect), and clearly had ammunition as I saw several exchanging fire with the attackers on TV.
If they were issued automatic weapons, it was well into the siege, a point where even ammo-less cops would be handed a clip or two for their sidearms. Personally, I would’ve dreaded being in the shoes of those Indian cops, with chaos everywhere in an urban environment like that. Rifle bullets travel long distances and rarely find residence in a moving target…they pass through walls in a way most folks would find hard to believe, meaning that every shot has to be judged by what’s behind the target. Given my memories of the Mumbai environment, it must’ve been an ungodly mess, requiring real discipline on the part of the authorities. An old truism to keep in mind is “Sometimes the reaction can be more destructive than the action”. Given the assertion that the attackers were hoping to kill 5000 or so, the 300 or so who died were relatively small numbers (and how many of those were from stray police rounds?).
Arky 4 That 1 said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:19
Because Dirty Fucking Homo-fascists won’t allow every RealAmerican man, woman, child and schnauzer to Glocks in their socks.
You see, guns are magical things. Once you touch one you instantly know how to conduct yourself during shoot outs, terrorist attacks and other emergencies and they allow you to read minds. So not only can you make lightning-quick plans with other gun wielders including the police, but you can read the bad guys’ minds so you don’t shoot innocent bystanders. But the DFHs don’t want people to know that, they don’t want us reading each others minds, they don’t want us to stop the bad guys, they don’t want us to be Bruce Willis*. That’s why they won’t let us have guns.
I can’t believe you didn’t know that.
*I keep saying Bruce Willis. Less out of it people may substitute the Cinematic Hero du Jour. Unless it’s Keanu Reeves. Fuck that noise.
Bill said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:20
Diese Webseite ist aufgrund eines Serverumzugs derzeit nicht erreichbar. Bitte versuchen Sie es später noch einmal.
Which proves that liberals are fascists.
Arky 4 That 1 said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:20
“to carry”
I know it isn’t WP’s fault, but FYWP, just because.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:21
Orange Tom -
I am with you on this. I do not see how good policing guidelines anywhere would allow the police to simply open fire under these circumstances. Most of the police I saw were in fact armed with hand guns and not rifles at all.
Fozzetti said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:22
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 22:49
I therefore humbly suggest he be known as ‘Buttpenis’ from now on.
I actually favor “Buttweenie” myself.
……How about ButtWeiner?
Smut Clyde said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:25
Glocks in their socks.
Dr Seuss parody from RB in 5…4…3…2…
xyzzy said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:25
Dunno, DrDick. In my neck of the woods, cops are justified in firing if they believe that their safety is at risk, e.g. even if someone simply points a weapon in their direction. And I live in a bastion of liberal thought, Seattle.
oinkaoinka said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:26
Here you go then: http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/01/stories/2008120155661000.htm
El Cid said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:26
It might ought be recalled in these sorts of discussions that India also has to be quite cautious of over-reactions which prompt regional violence and civil uprisings.
I still think this might be closely tied to operations by bandit warlords, not what we quite think of as ‘terrorist’ movements per se.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:27
You see, guns are magical things. Once you touch one you instantly know how to conduct yourself during shoot outs
Right. I own a Ruger .41 magnum which, except when I am up in the mountains or elsewhere in the back country, lives unloaded, broken down, with a trigger lock in the case in my closet. I know damn good and well that I would not know what to do if someone started shooting at me. Actually, I do know, because it has happened. I would immediately dive behind whatever cover is available. In the case in question, I cleared a bar from a barstool in about 2 seconds flat.
J— said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:28
Uzis in their shoesies?
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:29
Dunno, DrDick. In my neck of the woods, cops are justified in firing if they believe that their safety is at risk, e.g. even if someone simply points a weapon in their direction. And I live in a bastion of liberal thought, Seattle.
Can’t speak to Seattle, but anywhere I know of, that is premised on having a clean line of fire, which the Mumbai cops emphatically did not have for the most part.
WereBear said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:30
The time to take action on this is before they are running around the city in question with Uzis and bombs.
That’s why it was so stupid, the flak Kerry took for calling it a “law and order” problem. It is. And that’s how it is best handled.
WCW said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:32
Given that reportedly all but one of the terrorists were killed, I think we can assume that the cops were shooting back plenty. So it’s the original quote that’s most questionable, which was cherrypicked by the wingnut to justify his Die Hard fantasies.
mikey said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:32
In my role as a Sadly, No weapons wonk, I’d just like to point out that the US is virtually the only nation in the world today that still uses bolt action sniper rifles (Remington 700-based, such as M40).
Pretty much every other nation uses newer semi-auto sniper rifles such as Dragunov, HK PSG, SIG, Galil, Barrett etc. But in many cases, and in ALL cases where I saw Indian Police snipers in action in Mumbai on BBC, what people assumed are sniper rifles were actually what’s commonly referred to today as a “DMR”, a designated marksman rifle. This is an extensively modified, accurized version of an issue assault rifle, in many cases chambered for a more serious cartridge, fitted with appropriate optics.
In the 100-500 meter range you’re likely to be operating in an urban environment, Minute of Arc accuracy is not critical. The ability to shoot a two or three inch group would be sufficient, along with optics capable of allowing the shooter to ID the targets and the hostages, and differentiate between them…
mikey
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:34
And that’s how it is best handled.
Because ultimately that is what it is, a law and order problem. Police have the tools to deal with this kind of violence and these kinds of networks, which more closely resemble organized crime syndicates than armies.
J— said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:35
Don’t mess with Hinderaker. He’s known to pack a ninie in his heinie.
DrDick said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:38
Mikey -
That would be what I saw. I assumed they were snipers by their locations and actions, which seemed more targeted. Do not really think .50 caliber military sniper rifles would be very useful for policing in an urban environment. Where does the slug go after it has passed through the target and 3-4 walls/doors?
Mentis Fugit said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:39
For business or pleasure?
J— said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:45
For an OG like Hinderaker, there is no difference.
The Truth said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:46
ha ha. and ha. Once again, I am so amused to hear liberals opine on the use of firearms, as if they actually know anything other than “melt them down”. You see, dummies, this would never have happened in Heartland America, with most citizens armed and able to respond in seconds with lethal force. That what keeps most cities here safe from terrorism, it’s like on flight 93… LETS ROLL.
Commander of the Scottish Contingent during the First Crusade said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:49
Despite the obvious dangers of bolt action rifle toting policemen firing on automatic rifle welding terrorists, they should have taken the shot. Its there country, they know the terrain better, they could have found a way to compensate for their inferior firepower.
However, I’m not going to condemn them, I’ll save my condemnation for the Islamic terrorists who have been the scourge of the world for a millenia and a half. This just strikes right at the foundation of your moral relativist beliefs. There is no reconciliation with radical Islam. They believe that their god commands them to slay the non-beliver, there is no compromise with such a belief system.
They will not be detered from their barbaric plans by your moral relativist, “live and let live” philosophy. Savages like Islamic radicals are like brute beasts, they exist only to be slaughtered, before they slaughter you. I respect and admire President Bush, I think, for the most part, he has been a pretty good President, however he had it all wrong when he declared this struggle “the war on terrorism”, he should have declared it the war against radical Islam. It is a belief system that motivates their actions. Therefore the war should be not just against terrorism, but against the belief system itself, which is the source of their terrorism.
Not all radical muslims participate in terrorist actions, however all of them at the very least tacitly approve of their terrorist actions. As long as their is moral support for terrorism, there will always be terrorism. There are currently two major philosophies with in the Islamic religion that support terrorism. They are Wahhabism, which is the state religion of Saudi Arabia, and the Iranian version of Shi’ite Islam. All of America’s military, economic and intelligence might should be dedicated to, if not to specifically eradicating Wahhabism and Iranian Shi’ite Islam, to the very least containing them.
First, all mosques in America, which preach those brands of Islam should be shut down. I know you liberals will throw the whole, freedom of religion arguement at me, however any religion that insights treason against the host nation, is not protected by the first amendement, as the courts have repeated ruled.
And if some how containment is not possible, then it has been estimated that roughly 150 million muslims, worldwide, are radical. If that is the case, then I personally will have no moral reservations about eradicating them, if that is indeed the only way to solve this problem.
Rusty Shackleford (not that one) said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:51
I think we have armed security guards who know how to use their weapons, supplemented by an unknown number of private citizens who are armed and capable of returning fire. The Indian experience shows it is vitally important that this continue to be the case.
That’s very interesting, John Hinderaker of Power Line blog.
Say, let’s see what Power Line blog has had to say on similar topics as recently as July:
I’m not suggesting that Obama would actually try to establish a domestic security force as powerful as our current military, only that deep-down it appears he wouldl [sic] like to do something of the kind. That impulse seems like a threat to our freedom regardless of whether Obama attempts to hatch the full-blown object of his fantasy.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2008/07/021022.php
I’m not accusing Power Line of being inconsistent, but… I’m not sure how to finish this sentence.
Smut Clyde said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:52
I assume that there have been no high-profile US cases lately of well-armed dudes running amok and killing dozens, and this is why Buttraker has been reduced to exploiting the Mumbai battle to make his recurring claim that “This is why the US needs wider ownership of guns and lower inhibitions about using them”.
g said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:55
I just got sonic boomed, a little while ago.
Joan Baez one day, the space shuttle the next. what an exciting life.
Commander of the Scottish Contingent during the First Crusade said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:56
One of the greatest stengths to America’s security, is the second amendment. If terrorists ever attempted to take an American city hostage, they would be gunned down in a matter of minutes by angry gun-toting citizens.
Rusty Shackleford (not that one) said,
November 30, 2008 at 23:59
One of the greatest stengths to America’s security, is the second amendment. If terrorists ever attempted to take an American city hostage, they would be gunned down in a matter of minutes by angry gun-toting citizens.
Really? Then how do people successfully rob banks full of presumably gun-toting customers?
Commander of the Scottish Contingent during the First Crusade said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:01
The restrictions on the second amendment are un-constitutional, and should be overturned. I know you liberals are pacifists and opposed to self-defense, however it is the right of all freemen to be armed.
All federal restrictions on private gunownership, begining with the 1934 firearms act, should be overturned. Vermont currently has the most leniant gun laws in the nation, as citizens are allowed to carry a handgun, either concealed or in the open, without a permit. That’s the way it should be in all fifty states.
abanterer said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:02
And I am amused to hear conservatives opine on the distribution of firearms, as if they knew anything about Law Enforcement other than what they watch on ‘24′ and ‘Walker, Texas Ranger’. I can just see a bunch of wanna be heroes shouting “Wolverines” converging on a hostage situation like ants to a used Jolly Rancher. What a freaking mess that would be.
Commander of the Scottish Contingent during the First Crusade said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:05
Not everyone walking into a bank, carries a gun on them. However, if Americans hear on the news about terrorists holding a city hostage, you will see many citizens with guns arriving on the scene to take back their city.
Thats what makes America such a powerful nation, not only do we have the most powerful military on the face of the earth, we also have the world’s most heavily armed citizenry.
Baby Jesus said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:06
Bad parody trolls make me cry.
Rusty Shackleford (not that one) said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:10
However, if Americans hear on the news about terrorists holding a city hostage, you will see many citizens with guns arriving on the scene to take back their city.
I’d ask how, exactly, you see this scenario playing out, but I’m afraid you’d tell me.
Your ideas intrigue me, though. I’m starting to think we don’t really need a police force or a National Guard since we have armed citizens to protect the public safety.
DrDick said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:10
What a freaking mess that would be.
Except for the carnage, however, there is great comedy potential in such situation. I can just see the Cornerite Commandos, the Townhall Troopers, the Malkin Monkeys and the rest storm the bastions. Would make the Keystone cops look like the Navy Seals.
angulimala said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:17
According to my sources, the average Indian policeman doesn’t carry a sidearm. Almost all weapons are kept in central lockers and given to officers on an as-needed basis. Officers carry them as status symbols and are not always terribly well trained.
Police in India are typically horribly funded.
Rusty Shackleford (not that one) said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:18
Scot said,
And if some how containment is not possible, then it has been estimated that roughly 150 million muslims, worldwide, are radical. If that is the case, then I personally will have no moral reservations about eradicating them, if that is indeed the only way to solve this problem.
As solutions go, that would certainly be a final one. My understanding is that when it comes to solving problems on that scale gas works more efficiently than bullets.
woody, tokin librul said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:22
Your ideas intrigue me, though. I’m starting to think we don’t really need a police force or a National Guard since we have armed citizens to protect the public safety.
Iirc, Mr. O has proposed an armed, civilian counter-terror force for the USofA.
Which scares the bejeebus outta me.
Imagine the drooling, knuckledraggers and crotch-gropers of the HSA Transpo check-points fully armed and nervous?
woody, tokin librul said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:27
#
Commander of the Scottish Contingent during the First Crusade said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:05
Not everyone walking into a bank, carries a gun on them. However, if Americans hear on the news about terrorists holding a city hostage, you will see many citizens with guns arriving on the scene to take back their city.
Thats what makes America such a powerful nation, not only do we have the most powerful military on the face of the earth, we also have the world’s most heavily armed citizenry.
Here’s where we need “Woody’s Corollary” to Poe’s Law: “Absent a smiley or some other textual clue (”/snark”), it is functionally impossible to create a piece of Rightard fantasy which will not be regarded as ’serious’ by someone…”
HelenWheels said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:27
What a fucking idiot.
g said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:28
Thats what makes America such a powerful nation, not only do we have the most powerful military on the face of the earth, we also have the world’s most
heavily armedparanoid and scared-shitless citizenryFixed your typos.
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:28
I can just see the Cornerite Commandos, the Townhall Troopers, the Malkin Monkeys and the rest storm the bastions.
That would be funny. But I think they’d consider their job to be to sit in bunkers and make bleg-posts demanding money for their service of encouraging other people to shoot some terrorists.
g said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:29
If terrorists ever attempted to take an American city hostage, they would be gunned down in a matter of minutes by angry gun-toting citizens.
Whoops. He was only reaching for his housekeys.
MzNicky said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:30
g: I always liked Joan Baez’s version of “Susanne” the best.
Ms. Soon the Earthy Cherubfish said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:31
Your ideas intrigue me, though. I’m starting to think we don’t really need a police force or a National Guard since we have armed citizens to protect the public safety.
You are Thomas Jefferson and I am so getting you fired.
Rusty Shackleford (not that one) said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:32
Yeoman farming is going to supply all our food needs too.
g said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:32
MzNicky, she sang “Imagine” last night. Absolutely thrilling.
MzNicky said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:34
Hindraker. Okay, hind=butt. raker=a scratching thing, like fingernails that rake. Therefore,
Buttscratcher.
Eliminates the phallic component altogether.
woody, tokin librul said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:34
anybody else here who’s ever been in a fire fight, please raise your hand?
(blankness)
Seriously. Clap your hands if you’ve ever fired a weapon with the earnest intention to kill another person…
(crickets)…
Kinda what I thought…
Smut Clyde said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:36
And as for that “standing army” nonsense…
DrDick said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:37
Eliminates the phallic component altogether.
Which does sort of describe Hindraker to a tee.
MzNicky said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:40
Plus “Buttscratcher” is less cumbersome than “ButtocksTeenyWienie.”
DrDick said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:42
anybody else here who’s ever been in a fire fight, please raise your hand?
As I indicated above, I have been in places where gunfire occurred. Twice in fact. In both cases, I did what any sensible, untrained civilian does. I made for the nearest cover, in one case clearing a bar from my barstool to do so. In neither case did I see any swarms of heroes (pretty much everybody except the parties to the dispute were under tables or otherwise seeking cover) and these were Okie redneck bars where everybody owned and shot guns.
Orange Tom said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:42
anybody else here who’s ever been in a fire fight, please raise your hand?
(blankness)
Seriously. Clap your hands if you’ve ever fired a weapon with the earnest intention to kill another person…
Man……………..let’s not even go there.
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:42
Okay, hind=butt. raker=a scratching thing, like fingernails that rake.
I guess we could call him Moonraker and remind everybody of a cheesy Bond flick.
Pekl Lexkabe said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:43
What’d be really stupid is if he called himself Hindrocket.
Commander of the Scottish Contingent during the First Crusade said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:44
I can see that pansy DrDick doesn’t think radical Islam poses a threat to civilization. DrDick is not only a coward for refusing to answer The Truth’s honest questions about black racism, he’s also delusional.
I guess thats what passes for a professor nowadays, one who’s willing to both ignore and rewrite the facts of history in order to condemn America and Western Civilization.
MzNicky said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:49
So — anyone else besides me suffering from post-Thanksgiving traumatic stress disorder? Family and food overload kind of thing?
bulbul said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:50
No. They are very similar, but Urdu is a Hindi-Arabic creole.
Nonsense. Hindi and Urdu are the same language, same as American and British English are the same language. There are local differences, as in any language, and there is a difference in the origin loan words - those in Hindi tend to be of Sanskrit origin while those in Urdu of Perso-Arabic. But even that one isn’t that clear cut and thanks to movies and popular culture, many Urdu characteristics can be found in your standard Hindi as well.
Hindustani is the umbrella name used for the language of which Hindi and Urdu are two forms. In a census, language is self-reported and a lot of people chose Hindustani to avoid the association with the two religions represented by Hindi and Urdu.
Urdu is in no way a creole.
pedestrian said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:50
Yeoman farmingSlave labor is going to supply all ourfoodcannabis needs too.There’s what Jefferson said and there’s what Jefferson meant.
Rusty Shackleford (not that one) said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:51
So — anyone else besides me suffering from post-Thanksgiving traumatic stress disorder? Family and food overload kind of thing?
Cured the food overload problem by putting on sweats. Only precious time can cure the other.
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:53
So — anyone else besides me suffering from post-Thanksgiving traumatic stress disorder?
Not I - my family has mostly died off or moved away and those left all get along pretty well and approach holidays with moderation. We’re kind of boring.
I’ve been there, though.
Commander of the Scottish Contingent during the First Crusade said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:54
Alright DrDick, if Islam is really a religion of peace, and doesn’t pose a danger to Western Civilization, then how come almost all terrorist attacks in modern memory are committed by muslims?
How come no prominent muslim religious leader condemned 9/11 or terrorism in general?
How come, there are no widespread demonstrations against terrorism coming from supposedly peaceful muslims?
If you can answer these question fairly and honestly, then I will retract my previous comment refering to you as a coward.
fenris said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:54
humm.. this post upwards some ways gave me an idea about how to solve the entire law- enforcement dilemma.
So, I mean, what the hell - let the States handle it. Everyone voting for pretty dictation machines and mythical and violent paternal love can have a private militia instead of police. And the rest can spend money on training and supporting a police- force.. you know, along with a justice- system, or something.
I think we all know who is going to have the last laugh then!
mikey said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:54
Ummm…
mikey
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:55
Lordy, I haven’t had to add anyone to the piefilter for awhile - it’s not like the runup to the election when various concern-troll Moms were popping up all over along with a bunch of other little flying monkeys.
So thanks, Crusade guy, for the opportunity.
pedestrian said,
December 1, 2008 at 0:56
So — anyone else besides me suffering from post-Than