Nov
13

This, on the other hand, is awesome news




Posted at 12:27 by Brad

Goody:

Obama’s plans for probing Bush torture

With growing talk in Washington that President Bush may be considering an unprecedented “blanket pardon” for people involved in his administration’s brutal interrogation policies, advisors to Barack Obama are pressing ahead with plans for a nonpartisan commission to investigate alleged abuses under Bush.

The Obama plan, first revealed by Salon in August, would emphasize fact-finding investigation over prosecution. It is gaining currency in Washington as Obama advisors begin to coordinate with Democrats in Congress on the proposal. The plan would not rule out future prosecutions, but would delay a decision on that matter until all essential facts can be unearthed. Between the time necessary for the investigative process and the daunting array of policy problems Obama will face upon taking office, any decision on prosecutions probably would not come until a second Obama presidential term, should there be one.

The proposed commission — similar in thrust to a Democratic investigation proposal first uncovered by Salon in July — would examine a broad scope of activities, including detention, torture and extraordinary rendition, the practice of snatching suspected terrorists off the street and whisking them off to a third country for abusive interrogations. The commission might also pry into the claims by the White House — widely rejected by experienced interrogators — that abusive interrogations are an effective and necessary intelligence tool.

Were I in charge of this investigation, I would wipe my ass with the Constitution and summarily round up every single Bush administration official and ship them to Guantanamo for their military tribunals. The incoming Obama administration seems to believe in the rule of law a little more than I do, which I guess is a good thing, but my approach is more efficient (and fun!).

Note: if you ever see me running for any sort of political office, do no vote for me.

60 Comments »

  1. ronny said,

    November 13, 2008 at 12:37

    Barack Obastard should go back to Kenyanesia, or wherever the hell he’s really from.

    The REAL American people DON’T WANT HIM HERE.

    He is a DARK STAIN on this great country.

    You’ll thank me when he takes all your tax money and gives it to lazy poor people.

  2. Jacob Singer said,

    November 13, 2008 at 12:46

    Why would I thank you then?

  3. Doctorb said,

    November 13, 2008 at 12:52

    Yay, we’re going to have a truth and reconciliation commission!

    Man, our country got so bad we need a truth and reconciliation commission.

  4. Twinky Winky Pony Palin said,

    November 13, 2008 at 13:04

    Really, ronny, you really should stop tryin’ to get all that book-learnin’ from Sarah Palin’s Monster Book of Fcats.

  5. Moh Kohn said,

    November 13, 2008 at 13:52

    Not bad news at all. The Brits, for example, have never (to my knowledge) properly accounted for the use of torture against selected internees in Northern Ireland in the early 1970s. So this is one up on your former colonial masters. But I would caution you against getting too overjoyed; reading between the lines, I get the picture that the Bush gang will receive little more than a slap on the wrist for their crimes. To pay them back in their own coin would be ‘partisan’.

    An empire remains an empire, even if it is an American one led by a particularly talented and charismatic person.

  6. Sebelius/Octopus 2016 said,

    November 13, 2008 at 14:06

    Actually, the UK has held a number of such reconcilliation-directed investigations, and is currently in the middle of a very lengthy and expensive one focused on the events of ‘Bloody Sunday’. So lengthy and expensive, in fact, that it might be the last one, as people are rapidly coming to the point where they’d rather keep their taxes than have any more truth. They’re all truthed out.

  7. Moh Kohn said,

    November 13, 2008 at 14:16

    ‘A number of such reconciliation-directed investigations’? Really? ‘A number’ of such investigations? How many? I was unaware that there had been more than one such investigation (the Saville inqury). I was in fact under the impression that the Saville inquiry into the shooting dead of 13 unarmed civil rights demonstraters by the British army (and before you start, I do not and did not support the PIRA’s practice of murdering innocent people, so don’t bother screaming ‘you’re a Provie’ at me). Perhaps you could provide me with a list of these ‘numerous’ investigations.

    My point was that the specific use of ‘enhanced interrogation’ techniques against internees in the early 1970s has never been properly faced by the British establishment. The Saville enquiry did not have these incidents as part of its remit, and I know of no other enquiry that might have done so.

  8. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    November 13, 2008 at 14:31

    Sure I’m happy it isn’t all going to be swept under the rug.

    But isn’t that also the bare minimum of what we should expect from a decent administration?

  9. donnah said,

    November 13, 2008 at 14:42

    You aren’t running for political office, you’re going for Emperor of the World.

    But if you promise to go after any and all of the assholes in the Bush administration, you’ve got my vote, your highness.

  10. (Lex) Palianated (Azagthoth) said,

    November 13, 2008 at 15:12

    I’m just dying for the Atlas Shrugs post on this subject. And Gates of Vienna. Oooh yeah. The term “Obamessiah” is sure to be used though at GoV they are only referring to him by his childhood name “Barry Soetero” or just “Hussein”….HAHA.

  11. Sebelius/Octopus 2016 said,

    November 13, 2008 at 15:48

    I was in fact under the impression that the Saville inquiry into the shooting dead of 13 unarmed civil rights demonstraters by the British army (and before you start, I do not and did not support the PIRA’s practice of murdering innocent people, so don’t bother screaming ‘you’re a Provie’ at me).

    This does not make sense. Also, strangely confrontational.

    Come on, gimmie a hug.

  12. Stephen said,

    November 13, 2008 at 15:48

    Hmm, would I rather have this or see Bush held accountable for the shitload of Iraqi civilian deaths?

    Well, ideally both, but I’ve come to accept that in America blowjobs and lies are worse than widespread destruction.

  13. MzNicky said,

    November 13, 2008 at 16:14

    Yay! It’s finally “up against the wall motherfuckers” time! I’ve been waiting for this moment since about 1970.

  14. RobW said,

    November 13, 2008 at 16:22

    You’ll thank me when he takes all your tax money and gives it to lazy poor people.

    As a lazy poor person, may I just say that I’m greatly looking forward to buying drugs with your tax money.

  15. (Lex) Palianated (Azagthoth) said,

    November 13, 2008 at 16:28

    Well, ideally both, but I’ve come to accept that in America blowjobs and lies are worse than widespread destruction.

    You forgot teh gheys.

  16. Xecklothxayyquou Hussein Gilchrist said,

    November 13, 2008 at 16:40

    I’ve come to accept that in America blowjobs and lies are worse than widespread destruction.

    Embarrassing, isn’t it?

    Meanwhile, in Belgium, the BJs are campaign promise (sort of SFW). Europe is definitely more civilized than us.

  17. Alex said,

    November 13, 2008 at 16:52

    There certainly was “accounting” for it; there was a whole ECHR case, which ended up with army intelligence doctrine being rewritten (not that some folk in 19 Mechanised Brigade seem to have got the message).

  18. kenga said,

    November 13, 2008 at 16:53

    So I’m guessing you’d be OK with declaring the financial crisis to be an issue of national security, and applying USAPATRIOT Act to the bankers in Switzerland and the Caymans. A little extraordinary rendition in lieu of the extraditions that aren’t ever going to happen?

    Personally, I’m agin’ it(Not applying USA PATRIOT, but the Act itself.) But it could do wonders for federal revenues – states too, as they’re entitled to some of the big monies that have been so carefully hidden offshore.
    Maybe turn Gitmo into a real Club Fed?

  19. MzNicky said,

    November 13, 2008 at 17:38

    kenga: There actually was something in the Wall St. Journal this morning about the feds trying to pry loose identity information about US citizens’ Swiss bank accounts. It’s a sad sad sight to watch as the country’s unregulated greedmongers, having killed the golden goose, now cast about for ways to cannibalize each other.

  20. Moh Kohn said,

    November 13, 2008 at 18:04

    >>>I was in fact under the impression that the Saville inquiry into the shooting dead of 13 unarmed civil rights demonstraters by the British army

    What I meant to say was that ‘I was in fact under impression that the Saville inquiry into the shooting dead of 13 unarmed civil rights demonstraters by the British army was the sole example of its kind in Northern Ireland’.

    Does that make more sense to you?

    And no, you’ll get no hug from me, you filthy apologist for imperialism.

  21. Sebelius/Octopus 2016 said,

    November 13, 2008 at 18:36

    Apologist? Strange, I don’t recall apologising for anything. You’re right though, I am quite filthy, although only in quite a fun sort of way ;-)

    In answer to your earlier question, the “Consultative Group on The Past” has a wide remit that includes torture.

    No-one else in this thread seems very interested in Norn T&R, but if anyone is interested I highly recommend the movie ‘Hunger’. Also, Daniel Day Lewis in ‘The Boxer’.

    I wonder if Obama will grant Adams a visa, after Bush revoked it? I hope so, it’s important everyone is kept on board as we move into the future together.

    Peace and Love, all!

    out!
    xxxx

  22. RvB said,

    November 13, 2008 at 18:40

    Don’t forget Bloody Sunday, Paul Greengrass’ only good films.
    You call it imperialism, but I say we gave them roads and schools. And prisons. Soundproofed ones.

  23. Moh Kohn said,

    November 13, 2008 at 18:49

    The consultative group on the past is not equivalent to either the Saville Inquiry, nor to South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission, nor to the proposed ‘let them off easy’ board of inquiry into the Bush regime’s crimes.

  24. djheru said,

    November 13, 2008 at 18:50

    If you ever run for any sort of political office, run as a Republican…You’ll be a shoe in..

  25. Sebelius/Octopus 2016 said,

    November 13, 2008 at 19:05

    It was quite subtle, but someone just dissed the Bourne movies.

    *Shakes head sadly*

  26. actor212 said,

    November 13, 2008 at 19:20

    Meanwhile, in Belgium, the BJs are campaign promise

    *looking up flights to Bruges*

    I have EU citizenship…

  27. Arky4That1 said,

    November 13, 2008 at 19:24

    Someone go check: Which of the fReichtards has translated that headline into “OBAMA WILL TORTURE BUSH WITH PROBES!!”

  28. Your Name's Not Bruce? said,

    November 13, 2008 at 19:33

    Maybe someone could send Obama a copy of Bugliosi’s “The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder”. But get it autographed first.

  29. owlbear1 said,

    November 13, 2008 at 19:52

    SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY

    Perle vs. Feith in an all out knock down kick ass brawl. Winner takes All.

    This Sunday at the Coliseum!

    Two ‘men’ enter, one ‘man’ leaves

    12 other former Bush Administration officials will also be on the Card.

    SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY

    All proceeds will go to the “Bush’s Folly” Fund to help retire the Iraqi Occupation debt.

  30. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    November 13, 2008 at 20:28

    SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY

    Can we haz M. Matalin vs. P. Noonan?

    How about Pammycakes vs. D. Schlussel?

    And the heavyweight match: M. McCardle vs. K. Lopez

  31. Comrade Rutherford said,

    November 13, 2008 at 20:43

    Obama is going to probe whether he can torture Bush?

    Works for me!

  32. kenga said,

    November 13, 2008 at 20:49

    MzNicky – I had just read that bit in the WSJ shortly before I got here this AM, so that was on my mind. Has been for a while, what with Phil Gramm and Sen. McCain being such good buddies.
    And, yeah, I read the WSJ, or at least the front section, most days. I usually don’t have any cereal boxes handy to keep the reading monkey sated.

  33. Chick Deney said,

    November 13, 2008 at 20:56

    You want the truth? You can’t handle the truth.
    No truth-handler, you.
    Bah! I deride your truth-handling abilities.

  34. jim said,

    November 13, 2008 at 21:03

    I’ve already heard the idea being floated that as regards BushCrime, Inc., the first ones who come forward with actionable information will get off on a plea-bargain basis – creating a veritable Songbird Derby which’ll make for an interesting version of the Prisoners’ Dilemma … do you stay quiet & hope like hell everyone else does too, or do you CYA – which is, after all, the GOP’s normal default option – & apply for Witness Protection? Once that dam breaks, you’d have to sing fast, or your dirt will be stale by the time you dish it (assuming that information has to produce convictions to be a mitigating factor).

    I’m just picturing all those BushCo “good Germans” like Tenet, Yoo & Rumsfeld, suddenly visiting travel-agents & making long nasty phone-calls & e-mails to one another … when they’re not begging Bush to hurry up with that blanket amnesty thingy before Barack “Your Worst Nightmare Come True” Obama serves them up a one-way ticket to Bubba’s Bunkbed Of Tough-Love.

    Ohhhhhh yeah.

  35. Grondo said,

    November 13, 2008 at 21:06

    So, can Bush really pardon people BEFORE they’ve been convicted of anything? Scooty Libby, sure – he was actually convicted and sentenced, but all the other criminals who have yet to be charged (Cheney, Perle, Rumsfeld, et al.)… I don’t get the legal reasoning behind that. Seems like that would imply that he could pardon someone for bank robbery, and then go drive him to the bank while he robs it. Weird.

  36. tigrismus said,

    November 13, 2008 at 21:11

    Well, Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon before any charges even, so looks like yes.

  37. Major Woody said,

    November 13, 2008 at 21:22

    OBAMA WILL TORTURE BUSH WITH PROBES

    He’s just working his way up to the Violet Wand.

  38. Smut Clyde said,

    November 13, 2008 at 21:43

    Perle vs. Feith in an all out knock down kick ass brawl. Winner takes All.
    When I am in charge of booking events at the Clown Arena, as well as the straightforward gladiatorial clashes, you can expect to see warm-up acts where prisoners are torn apart by wild yeasts.*
    *I am hoping for sponsorship from Belgian breweries, hence the product placement..

  39. actor212 said,

    November 13, 2008 at 21:49

    Well, Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon before any charges even, so looks like yes.

    Technically, three impeachment charges had be voted out of the Judiciary Committee.

  40. HemlockEcho said,

    November 13, 2008 at 21:54

    Obama has plans for “Probing Bush Torture”…. you mean, like, what a gynecologist does?

  41. Orange Tom said,

    November 13, 2008 at 22:24

    round up every single Bush administration official and ship them to Guantanamo for their military tribunals.

    No, that’s all wrong mate. We need to rendition them, secretly, without access to a lawyer, to a central European country where they still dip prisoners in boiling vats. The people who initiated all of this shit really need to live through what they instituted, otherwise “justice” becomes the equivalent of exiling Idi Amin to a life of luxury in Saudi Arabia. If we don’t nail these fuckers, they’ll be back in 2012 looking to be re-installed for another round of despotism. Torture as a national security tool is absurdly stupid, but as a tool of national justice? Priceless.

  42. Cold Speculum said,

    November 13, 2008 at 22:28

    Obama has plans for “Probing Bush Torture”….
    Don’t tell him. Keep it a surprise.

  43. Duros Hussein 62 said,

    November 13, 2008 at 22:49

    Obama has plans for “Probing Bush Torture”…. you mean, like, what a gynecologist does?

    Practicing their love?

  44. Big Bad Bald Bastard said,

    November 13, 2008 at 23:12

    If we don’t nail these fuckers, they’ll be back in 2012 looking to be re-installed for another round of despotism.

    Amen! We don’t want a repeat of Clinton’s mollycoddling of the Iran-Contra criminals. A lot of those retreads ended up in the B00sh administration. Time to clean house once and for all, and become the society we always made ourselves out to be.

  45. word hussein yeti said,

    November 14, 2008 at 0:15

    If we don’t nail these fuckers, they’ll be back in 2012 looking to be re-installed for another round of despotism.

    Amen! We don’t want a repeat of Clinton’s mollycoddling of the Iran-Contra criminals. A lot of those retreads ended up in the B00sh administration. Time to clean house once and for all, and become the society we always made ourselves out to be.

    Brad, BBB, Orange Tom, et al.

    No. No. No.

    See Mikey’s comment on a thread a coupla few days ago, with my response.

    We do not do things like that. We cannot. This is not the way forward. This is the road to an interminable scorched-earth war of faction vs. faction while the U.S. burns to the foundations.

    We cannot afford this right now. No matter how satisfying it may be to contemplate Rush Limbaugh up to his waist in a rice paddy, next to Fat Bastard from Exxon & the entire Wall St. Journal editorial board, covered in leeches & learning “the value of peasant labor” …

    Justice is what we need. Vengeance and retribution are luxuries we cannot afford.

    The Right governed out of pique, spite and childish need to strike back at their perceived tormenters. Look where that got us.

    We are either better than that, better than them, or we might as well all head on over to FreeRepublic and LGF and start rapping with them.

  46. owlbear1 said,

    November 14, 2008 at 0:49

    What is ‘justice’ to a million dead?

  47. kenga said,

    November 14, 2008 at 0:50

    I’ve already heard the idea being floated that as regards BushCrime, Inc., the first ones who come forward with actionable information will get off on a plea-bargain basis

    There’s another possible tactic. Charge some of the low-levels with serious crimes, make ‘em lawyer up, post large bail, etc. You know, sweat ‘em a llittle, some bad cop type stuff Then Pres. Obama(aka good cop) issues a pardon, and has them delivered to Congressional hearings – where teh Fifth will no longer be recourse to keep their mouths shut. Then, it’s talk, truthfully, or face contempt and/or a perjury trial.

  48. kenga said,

    November 14, 2008 at 0:56

    Justice is what we need. Vengeance and retribution are luxuries we cannot afford.

    No doubt.
    Where’s the limit, though. The floor, I should say, not the ceiling.
    I mean, what is a just punishment for helping promote an illegal war, with its various abrogations of the Constitution, torture, and hundreds of thousands of brutally murdered children?
    5-10 in Medium Security?
    Uh, that’s not justice.

    Ya know?

  49. Orange Tom said,

    November 14, 2008 at 0:58

    Justice is what we need. Vengeance and retribution are luxuries we cannot afford.

    So, the Nazi war crimes trials and executions were un-fucking neccessary? These assholes have killed over a million INNOCENT Iraqis with their bullshite, have kidnapped and tortured thousands (and made torture a national policy), ripped the Constitution to confetti, claimed they were above the law (and established a fantasy branch of government), secretly given away trillions of U.S. treasure, started up a private army of Christian-Rightists funded by you and me, and a further list longer than an anaconda.

    This shit can’t be allowed to slide. A Bush was behind the coup attempt to overthrow FDR and establish a fascist government, and the knuckleheads back then simple let him walk away. Look what we ended up with! Yeah, so I’m being over the top about boiling people to make my point, the obvious REAL point is that there needs to be a series of criminal prosecutions unmatched in our history, with severe punishments (yeah, I include the death penalty). This isn’t a Left-Right spitefulness on my part, it’s a desire to see real justice done…….if we don’t do this, we’ll end up with the same mutherfuckers doing the same mutherfucking things, all over again. THAT’s what we can’t afford, chum.

  50. islmfaoscist said,

    November 14, 2008 at 6:31

    …would examine a broad scope of activities, including detention, torture and extraordinary rendition…

    Awesomeness!

    Conveniently, a somewhat obscure Congressman named Dennis K. has thoughtfully prepackaged some 35 potentially fertile areas for investigation right in the Congressional Record. Now isn’t that handy?

    Might I also be the first to note that it would be irresponsible and possibly highly damaging to our national security were the commission to overlook the potential need to use highly advanced methods of enhanced interrogation such as bruloirs and intestinal cranks.

  51. christian h. said,

    November 14, 2008 at 17:24

    Sorry, but did we read the same article? A fact-finding commission, outside congress, with no subpoena power, probably consisting of a bunch of DC insiders implicated in whatever they are supposed to investigate… that’s a good thing?

  52. The Goddamn Batman Is Unforgiving said,

    November 14, 2008 at 18:32

    There’s no way that we’d be able to send them to jail, anyway; Bush’s blanket pardon will guarantee that. Let’s get names out there, and make sure that people don’t forget them any more than they forgot Mitchell and Haldeman.

  53. christian h. said,

    November 14, 2008 at 18:44

    I agree with that. But without further details, I have to believe this commission is going to have one job only: to not get names out there, with the possible exception of a minor fall guy or two. To cover up what exactly happened. To provide “closure” so the system can expunge the record and start the same shit all over again. Given historical experience, I don’t see how one can expect anything different.

  54. Nenya said,

    November 14, 2008 at 21:21

    What is ‘justice’ to a million dead?

    Nothing we can ever do can ever bring them back. Nothing.

    Maybe we can save a few lives from the next would-be Bush, if we do it right.

    Not that I know how. Investigating would be a start. Names, dates, deeds brought into the light.

    But we can’t fix or undo what was done. That’s why I’m so searingly angry.

  55. Master Chief said,

    November 14, 2008 at 22:46

    truth and reconciliation commission

    I’m in. Cortana, which way to the nearest munitions locker? I’m low on frag grenades.

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