Oct
28

Confederate Yankee: We Have The Tape




Posted at 22:19 by Gavin M.

He’s a tough nut, that Confederate Yankee. Imagine our brief admiration when we saw that our favorite Citizen Journalist and scourge of the reported media had shored up his berserk ravings about Barack Obama and William Ayers with an actual interview — one with an actual primary source in the Ayers saga.

Little did he know that we would obtain a copy of his interview tape. (The release of the tape in our possession is complicated by certain factors of which it is imprudent to speak. We will release the tape when it becomes correct to do so. Claims that we are not of possession of this genuine tape are futile and in error.)


Eyewitness to the Ayers Revolution
An interview with Weathermen insider/FBI informant Larry Grathwohl on whether to believe Obama when it comes to Bill Ayers.
October 28, 2008 – by Bob Owens

When Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn led the domestic terrorist group Weather Underground in 1969, a chance meeting led Army veteran Larry Grathwohl into joining the group. Grathwohl served as a courier, running messages between the group’s leadership (called the “Weather Bureau”) and individual cells that were to carry out attacks.

Grathwohl was also an informant for the FBI.

In an interview from the 1982 documentary No Place To Hide that recently surfaced, Grathwohl discussed what the Weathermen intended to do after overthrowing the U.S. government, including what they would do with those Americans who refused to embrace communism.

I asked, “Well what is going to happen to those people we can’t reeducate, that are diehard capitalists?” And the reply was that they’d have to be eliminated.

And when I pursued this further, they estimated they would have to eliminate 25 million people in these reeducation centers.

And when I say “eliminate,” I mean “kill.”

Twenty-five million people.

I want you to imagine sitting in a room with 25 people, most of which have graduate degrees, from Columbia and other well-known educational centers, and hear them figuring out the logistics for the elimination of 25 million people.

And they were dead serious.

Twenty-six years later, I caught up with Larry Grathwohl, and asked him about the Weathermen, their leaders then and now, and what he thinks about the relationship between Bill Ayers and Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.

[tape begins]

Confederate Yankee: …in the liberal media, and the tape is rolling. Hi, Larry Grathwohl?

Grathwohl: Hello.

Pajamas Media: You stated in your interview in No Place to Hide that you wanted us to “imagine sitting in a room with 25 people, most of which have graduate degrees, from Columbia and other well-known educational centers, and hear them figuring out the logistics for the elimination of 25 million people.” A lot of people have now had the opportunity to listen to you, and contemplate the horrors these people planned. Can you recall who these people are by name, and who the ringleaders of this plan were?

Larry Grathwohl: Conversations regarding this occurred in Cincinnati, Detroit, Flint, and Buffalo. Participants included Bill Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn, Mark Rudd, Linda Evans, Jeff Jones, and many others.

Confederate Yankee: Larry, you said that you witnessed 25 people plotting the mass murder of millions. Can you recall who these individuals were, and who the ringleaders were?

Larry Grathwohl: No, because, okay, earlier you asked was I a policeman infiltrating this group, or an FBI agent, or just an FBI informer? Well, I wasn’t actually an employee of any government…

Confederate Yankee: No, I didn’t ask that.

Grathwohl: Oh, because the credentials that… Oh right. Ha ha ha!

C.Y.: Ha ha ha!

Grathwohl: Ha ha, yes. Witnessed. Well, all of those guys were often doing that. You know, here and there.

C.Y.: In cities, right. “Imagine you’re in a room…”

Grathwohl: It was literally a lot, like all these different times. Cincinnati…

C.Y.: Detroit? Ayers? Mark Rudd?

Grathwohl: Sure, you name it.

Pajamas Media: Was this merely an academic matter to them, or were they serious about killing 25 million Americans that would not bend to their political will?

Larry Grathwohl: I suppose you could consider this a purely academic discussion in that the Weathermen never had the opportunity to implement their political ends. However, I can assure you that this was not the case. There was an absolute belief that they, along with the international revolutionary movement, would cause the collapse of the United States and that they would be in charge. Nixon was of great concern and how his end would be conducted. This may sound absurd in today’s context, but the Weatherman believed they would succeed.

C.Y.: Were they actually going to do it, or was it just a lot of talk?

Grathwohl: Well, you can say that the crime was utterly impossible. However, I can assure you that this is not the case. Quite to the contrary: They totally didn’t realize that it was impossible.

C.Y.: Whoah.

Grathwohl: You’re getting this down, right?

Pajamas Media: Did they ever devise a cover story to explain to the rest of America how roughly one in ten disappeared?

Larry Grathwohl: When I suggested that this might be a difficult proposition they looked at me like I had three heads. They would be in charge! They would be in control! Who would oppose them? Lambs to the slaughter I guess.

C.Y.: Did they ever figure out how they would conceal the elimination of 25 million Americans? I mean, when someone caught them doing it, would they have just been like, “Uh, we don’t know what you’re talking about,” or would they have been more clever, like, “Oh sure, that’s exactly what we’re doing, eliminating 25 million people — not,” or what?

Grathwohl: Oh, uh, I asked that of a group of unnamed people, at some time and place about which I have no specific memory, and the question was regarded as crazy. I took this to mean that the question was in fact not crazy enough.

C.Y.: I can relate.

Pajamas Media: Were any of those Weathermen involved in concocting this plan particularly excited or enthusiastic about the death camps, or was it merely a means to an end?

Larry Grathwohl: Of course they were enthusiastic as it was representative of the success of “the revolution.”

C.Y.: Unnamed individuals were blatantly gleeful in regard to mass murder and death camps, were they not? I mean, Ayers? Gleeful? [ahem]

Grathwohl: Yeah, people were gleeful. About, you know, things.

Pajamas Media: Scattered news accounts on the Internet note that you were instrumental in foiling Weather Underground attacks in February of 1970, in Detroit. The Weathermen built two bombs targeting the Detroit Police Officers’ Association (DPOA) building and the 13th Precinct. Were the goals of these attacks symbolic property damage as were some other Weathermen attacks, or were these targets selected to kill police officers?

Larry Grathwohl: The instructions I received from Billy Ayers was that the bombs to be used in Detroit must have shrapnel (fence staples, specifically) and fire potential (propane bottles). The intention was to kill police officers.

C.Y.: According to scattered quotes of old news stories posted on right-wing blogs, you’re totally a hero.

Grathwohl: Since I am the source most often quoted in those stories, I am able to confirm my accuracy, especially in details where the only source is myself.

Pajamas Media: One of the Detroit bombs was to be placed on the side of the DPOA building, and the blast was likely to cause damage to the adjacent Red Barn Restaurant, which had mostly African-American customers. Who ordered the attack, and what did he say when you told him that innocent civilians would be killed?

Larry Grathwohl: When I objected to Billy Ayers that more innocent people would be killed in the restaurant, he replied, “Innocent people have to die in a revolution.” Billy also acknowledged during a criticism session in Buffalo that Bernadine placed the bomb at the Park Police Station which resulted in the death of Police Officer McDonnell.

C.Y.: According to what you said in the press about Ayers ordering the death of people, did Ayers do that, and after he did, what did you say?

Grathwohl: I said exactly what I said I said. And I, uh, actually wasn’t there the other time, but I was there some other-other time when he admitted ordering a deadly bombing that he totally ordered despite what the liberal MSM would have you believe. These facts are corroborated by the 1976 book, Bringing Down America: An FBI Informer With The Weathermen, by Larry Grathwohl as told to Frank Reagan.

C.Y.: Oh, I haven’t read that.

Pajamas Media: Bill Ayers came out of hiding around 1980, became an college professor, and has served on numerous boards and foundations. Do you think he’s changed in his radicalism?

Larry Grathwohl: Has Billy changed? I hardly think so.

C.Y.: Ayers still wants to destroy America, doesn’t he, yes?

Grathwohl: For all I know, sure, probably.

Pajamas Media: If conditions permitted, do you think Ayers would still engage in violence to further a political agenda?

Larry Grathwohl: He has acknowledged his support of anti-American groups and stated he felt that the Weathermen hadn’t done enough.

C.Y.: If Obama is elected, and if he gives Ayers carte blanche to bomb anything he wants, Ayers would totally do it, wouldn’t he?

Grathwohl: He has certainly used each of the words, “I,” “will,” “bomb,” and “again.”

Pajamas Media: Do you consider Bill Ayers an attempted mass murderer?

Larry Grathwohl: I’m not certain Billy is a mass murder; his ego just wants him to be in charge. Note that Billy never does anything that involves risk. He has no problem allowing his women to do the evil task, Diane Oughton and even Bernardine, but never him. As for what he might do, hasn’t he said he doesn’t rule out the possibility of future bombings? [Ayers said he didn't "want to discount the possibility" in this New York Times article from September 11, 2001. -- Ed.]

C.Y.: Do you consider Bill Ayers a mass murderer except for the fact that he never murdered anybody?

Grathwohl: Maybe not. He’s chicken. As for what he might do, hasn’t he said he doesn’t rule out the possibility of future bombings?

C.Y.: I should footnote that with a source, or a citation or one of those. I’ll put something like, “When asked, ‘If you had the chance, would you do it again?‘ Ayers said he didn’t ‘want to discount the possibility’ — which means that if asked a different question, he might for all anyone knows have expressed an intention to carry out future bombings. Is that weak?

Grathwohl: I don’t know, you’re the journalist.

C.Y.: I’ll sharpen it up later.

Pajamas Media: Would you let your children attend a college or university class taught by Ayers or his wife, Bernadine Dohrn? What would you tell parents who have had their children exposed to Ayers’ academic programs, like the Small Schools Workshop?

Larry Grathwohl: As for Billy’s ideas on education, isn’t it apparent? Reading, writing, and arithmetic aren’t important! Radicalism is what’s important. Fits right in with the Billy Ayers view of creating mindless soldiers to follow his commands — where best to lay the foundations of a revolution than with the young?

C.Y.: Are criminals the people you want your children associating with? Would you warn parents against criminals?

Grathwohl: They teach children criminalism. Crime is what is learned. So…

C.Y.: Ayers? Is he…

Grathwohl: Sure, whatever you want to say. Just put whatever you want.

C.Y.: Seriously? Because I’ll…

Grathwohl: Sure, whatever.

C.Y.: …after we’re done, to clarify things here and there, you know?

Grathwohl: Sure, yeah, as long as you don’t change any of…

[43 seconds missing from tape]

C.Y.: …underneath some of them.

Grathwohl: Yeah, for instance Gnip-Gnop or Hungry, Hungry Hippos.

Pajamas Media: Do you think there is there any way that Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama could not have known that Bill Ayers was a domestic terrorist? Is there any reason that the American people should accept Barack Obama’s newest excuse about his relationship with Bill Ayers, where Obama claimed that he thought Ayers was “reformed”?

Larry Grathwohl: If we are to believe Mr. Obama, he just didn’t know Billy was as radical as he apparently is. Really? Just like he didn’t know the Rev. Wright was as radical as he is? Obama is a politician and he wants me to believe that he never discussed politics with the Rev Wright or Billy Ayers?

C.Y.: Is Barack Obama rendered suspect by his association with the terrorist mass-murderer Marxist coward child-manipulator Ayers?

Grathwohl: You forgot Rev. Wright. That’s another one, right there. Whoah, Nellie. Heh-heh.

Mr. Grathwohl concluded the interview with a question of his own.

“Have you seen the [Bill] O’Reilly attempts to interview Billy? He called the police to ‘protect’ him! Doesn’t surprise me a bit: Billy needs others to stand up, not him. He’s too important! Do you think his new book [Race Course Against White Supremacy, co-author Bernardine Dohrn] has something to do with his position? I bet we hear a lot from Billy and Bernardine after the election. Especially if Obama wins.”

[Mr. Grathwohl concluded the interview with a disjointed non-question.]

Grathwohl: We’re both O’Reilly fans here, aren’t we? Do you believe this shit with the. . .and he’s like, “Get off my property?” Ooh, but I’m not surprised. Ayers’s new book against white supremacy — is that typical or what? I bet that we haven’t heard the last of the, you know, what’s-their-names, and that Obama is behind it somehow.

C.Y.: Truer words! Thanks, Larry.

Grathwohl: Thanks, Mr. Weisman. This will be in the Washington Post on which day?

C.Y.: Oh, you know, they haven’t given me a date yet, heh heh.

[tape ends]

152 Comments »

  1. Mooser said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:36

    I’m not witty enought to be first. Somebody else will have to get the ball rolling here.

  2. Mooser said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:38

    Nobody likes “leftist polices”. All the Tasers are right-handed!

  3. Scott said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:41

    C.Y.: Do you think Bill Ayers and Obama plan to use cyber-zombie soldiers to enslave us and devour our delicious marrow? Maybe they’ll create magical evil bears or robot donkeys to have sex with our women?

    Grathwohl: It’s what I’d do. Hell, it’s what I plan to do if we can ever get Cheney back in the White House.

    C.Y.: Are Bill Ayers and Barack Obama in fact more evil than Satan?

    Grathwohl: I’m sure Satan sits around and wishes he could do as much evil as Obama. Did you know he wants blacks and meskins and faggorts to vote? Not even the Devil wants that, seriously.

  4. dan b said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:42

    Boy, that is hard-hitting. TIDOS Yankee forgot to ask one thing, however:

    “Hey! Do you think Mr. Ayers had anything to do with what happened to mah greeeel?”

  5. Sideshow Bill Ayers said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:43

    I stand accused of a crime I did not commit. Attempted mass murder? Now honestly, what is that? Do they give a Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry?

  6. FlipYrWhig said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:44

    How recently has Obama had fuck-all to do with Ayers? This is so, so stupid, and it’s been a pleasant surprise to see how it hasn’t worked on the public.

  7. BatGuano said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:45

    Wow, in attempting to read the whole thing (on CY’s site) I realized that it was beginning to become a black hole of stupid and all intelligence would be sucked in and devoured. I don’t know how you could get that close to such concentrated stupidity and still survive. My hat’s off to you for your efforts to inform us, sir!

  8. Scott said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:46

    C.Y.: What can freedom-loving Americans do if Obama is elected? How can we make sure American survives?

    Grathwohl: Let’s just say I’ve got my white tuxedo and white top hat ready to go.

  9. biff diggerence said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:46

    I guess.

    For all I know, sure, probably.

    They teach children criminalism. Crime is what is learned.

    Since I am the source most often quoted in those stories, I am able to confirm my accuracy, especially in details where the only source is myself.

    (Jeezus Friggin Christ, I’d rather listen to a braying puddytat)

  10. tusky mcwinebox said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:46

    I will be first in line to toil in our black overlords underground rap cd processing plants

  11. Xecky Gilchrist said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:47

    Lordy. I’ve read this whole post twice and still none of it makes sense.

  12. Tommmcatt said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:47

    Since 1969 has suddenly become so relevant, I wonder what Zombie Nixon has to say about this? Should we dig up Tiny Tim and Miss Vicki? Their analysis is important.

    ALSO: Donovan is grooooovyyyyy….

  13. gocart mozart said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:49

    Mooser, the TRUTH got things rolling ferya and man, that some funny shit. Funny in a “Honey, these week old pork chops smells funny, should I toss them out?” kinda way.

  14. J— said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:52

    Arise, Army of Chief Editor Korirs, and stake your claim as the future of citizen journalism!

  15. MzNicky said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:52

    I just don’t understand why the authorities permit a dangerous mass-murderer wannabe like “Billy” Ayers to walk around free among normal society. And let him get involved with community organizing!! And stuff concerning children, and stuff!!! Good Lord, he could just haul off and hurl a bomb into a building or a crowd or a schoolyard at any moment! And Obama … uh … and … something. Something really bad!!1!!!!

  16. Dreamweasel said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:57

    John McCain, Karl Rove, and approximately 100% of the Republican National Committee knows that Ayers has fuck-all to do with Obama.

    The Truth does, too, although he’ll never admit it.

    Enjoy the next three months – soon we’ll restore some badly-needed honor and dignity to the Oval Office.

  17. agum said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:57

    Ayers and Dohrn should have asked Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins how to conceal the disappearance of 25 million Americans.

    They’re expert at papering over the gaping reality holes ‘left behind’ by mass disappearances.

  18. NobodySpecial said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:59

    Y’know, they could probably do more damage to Obama by revealing that he leaves the seat up. I’m sure that would reduce his favorables with women.

  19. Marlowe said,

    October 28, 2008 at 22:59

    OMG U GUYZ THIS INTRVEW WILL DERAIL TEH OBAMA CAMPAIGN BY PROVING….um, that Bill Ayers was involved in terrorist activities. Which is already common knowledge.
    This must be Summerisle, because all I see are straw men.

  20. gocart mozart said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:03

    I am concerned about those supporters and funders of terrists, the Annenburgs, and their close ties to John McCain, I mean what were they thinking.

  21. J— said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:03

    The requisite Ye Ole Professor link.

  22. Freakes And Goobers, Oh My said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:05

    I’m sure DrDick can speak for himself, but Truth honey, take it from another adult, that sometimes people beyond a certain age, and a certain sanity quotient, have what is called a life, and unlike the Truth of some man-childrens existence, they don’t constantly troll blogs they hate, hanging on day after day for recognition they know they’ll never get, in a desperate hope that some where, some how the impotence they feel at knowing they don’t have a life themselves will be soothed as a result of their constant desperate contrariness.
    Now, I know this is hard for you to understand, but it’s the Truth, I swear. People really aren’t paying the slightest attention to anything you say, and can go through an entire day not concerned at all with what you think… indeed, they might even read the same reports you do at other times, and think “That’s not sporting”, but the moment you use these reports to try and feed your own insecure ego, they’ll just say “Hush, adults are talking here” and ignore it all again.

  23. tigrismus said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:08

    An interview with Weathermen insider/FBI informant Larry Grathwohl on whether to believe Obama when it comes to Bill Ayers.

    Ayers is an EDUCATOR teaching CRIMINALITY and RADICALISM to CHILDREN at a UNIVERSITY LEVEL. Obama was a CHILD at the time Grathwohl knew Ayers, and has received EDUCATION including at a UNIVERSITY LEVEL. QED, muthafuckas.

  24. The Truth Remix! said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:10

    It is to laugh. Heh, libs. Hypocrisy. It is to laugh. To laugh. To l-l-l-l-l-l-laugh.

    Laugh. It is to laugh.

    The great fraud. It is to laugh. To laugh. To laugh. To l-l-l-l-laugh.

    Dumpy. To laugh. Psychopathic. To laugh. Irishmen. To laugh. Ex-ex-ex-ex-ceedingly corrupt. Corrupt. It is it is it is it is to laugh.

  25. Lawnguylander said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:10

    So according to this guy the FBI knew the whereabouts of the Weather Bureau and left them at liberty rather than arresting them? Does TIDOS not understand that this means that either Larry Grathwohl is lying or the FBI let the Weather Underground continue to carry out bombings? If the guy is telling the truth what would CY conclude? That the FBI was run by commies?

  26. Joe Max said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:11

    Hey, Truth, I’m just wondering – are you actually old enough to remember any of this stuff that’s got you peeing your pants now? Or is this just an academic exercise for you?

    Keep in mind that the most horrendous domestic terror attack in US history was Oklahoma City. And that wasn’t the Weather Underground who did that, was it?

    If there’s anyone who should be pissing themselves in fear of deadly political violence, it’s the Left. We’ve already had two pairs of wingnut skinheads arrested for plotting to kill Obama and he isn’t even president yet. And even though they were blithering idiots, I don’t think Timmy McVeigh was any smarter than they are, and equally insane.

    You like challenges, so here’s one for you: For all your innuendo and slime by association, I don’t remember you ever describing exactly what it is you’re afraid of. What do you think is going to happen under the Obama administration? Let’s hear you’re worst case scenario.

    Either shit or take off your pants, Truthie.

  27. J.D. Rhoades said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:12

    I kept waiting for some allegation of an Obama connection, but nope. Just “Bill Ayers is a bad guy.” Okay, great, thanks for checking in but SO FUCKING WHAT?

    Obviously, they’re begging the question of the Ayers/Obama “link.”

  28. Smut Clyde said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:12

    ‘Among those indicted by a federal grand jury in Detroit on March 6, 1970 for conspiracy to bomb police and military installations was Larry G. Grathwohl – reputedly one of the “most militant members of the SDS Weatherman faction – an FBI infiltrator, known as a demolitions expert, who gave bomb-making lessons to the group, regularly brandished both a .357 magnum revolver and a straight razor, and admitted to the New York Times having personally participated in the bombing of a public school near Cincinnati in 1969. Charges were dropped against Grathwohl (but not against his alleged co-conspirators who, by then, had gone underground), and he “retired” into the Bureau’s witness protection program, eventually writing a sensationally self-serving account of his exploits entitled Bringing Down America: An FBI Informer with the Weathermen.’

    Dude sure sounds like a reliable informant.

  29. Tommmcatt said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:13

    Is “LIEBRALS ARE TEH EVULZ” actually a point, twoofie? Or is it more of a worldview?

    Either way you are far too predictable and boring a troll to engage in any way other than to call you an asshat. Which I would do, only you’re not even that interesting in the final analysis.

  30. Joe Max said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:14

    Argh, I mean “your worst case scenario”…

  31. Rugged in Montana said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:16

    Heck, I don’t even know where to begin. But, I’ll start out with this. That liberal, effeminate, homosexual faggot pretending to be me, is just that, an imposter.

    When I first posted here, I was new to this site, and to blogging in general. So I really didn’t know how to carry myself. So when that liberal, pantywaist faggot, started pretending to be me, I didn’t know what to do. So I stopped posting here for a good while.

    But after being a casual lurker here, and seeing the immense folly of your leftwing hysterics, and especially that faggot imposter pretending to be me, who quite frankly pissed me the fuck off, I ‘ve decided to return, and share with you my insights on politics.

    What the devil is the reformed church of aryan whiteness? I’m a Baptist, admittedly not the best example of one, but saved by grace nonetheless. I’ll describe myself, the real Rugged, to you. I’m a Libertarian Conservative, who lives in rural Montana. And, as my name implies, I really am rugged. I am approximately six feet tall, and I weigh 213lbs, all of which is solid muscle because I lift weights in the gym regularly. I am the owner of a Cattle Ranching business, which has been in my family for over one hundred years. And before you ask, yes I am fairly wealthy, thanks to my hard work and that of my male ancestors. And yes, I am a gun owner, and I open carry frequently. And occasionally, I even carry a rifle strapped to my back where legal. I know that faggot imposter likes to mock the M1A Battle Rifle, and pretend he carries one, but that faggot probably doesn’t even know the difference between a battle rifle, which is full sized and full powered, and a battle carbine, which is a smaller less powerful version, but better suited for urban combat.

    And yes, I do own an M1A Battle Rifle, nothing quite cuts through cover like a .30-06. And if that faggot imposter really lives in Montana (which I doubt, because a pantywaist faggot like him wouldn’t last five minutes here) then I’d like to meet him in person, and we’ll settle this one face to face like a couple of men. Though that fucking faggot would probably wet his panties and run home crying at the first sight of me clentching my fists.

    Thats right ladies and germs. Old guard rugged has returned, with a vengence. And he’s here to stay.

  32. Gavin M. said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:17

    [Updated a bit and finished the ending, btw.]

  33. Ken Lowery said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:17

    You guys telling him he’s not worth engaging is somewhat underminded by your repeatedly engaging him.

  34. Ken Lowery said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:17

    Undermined, rather.

  35. Smut Clyde said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:25

    Grathwohl served as a courier, running messages between the group’s leadership (called the “Weather Bureau”) and individual cells that were to carry out attacks.

    According to Grathwohl, he was a mere courier who tried to talk everyone else out of the violence they were discussing, and happened to overhear everyone else confessing to involvement in acts resulting in death.
    According to everyone else, Grathwohl was an agent provocateur who instigated violence, promoted ruthlessness, and taught bomb-making attempts, in order to make the Weathermen seem a more credible threat.

  36. gocart mozart said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:25

    CY is playing six degrees of Kevin Bacon with Ayers. With CY its always about bacon.

  37. FGFM said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:28

    The Outfit – run by dumpy, psychopathic Irishmen – is in bed with Daley

    This will be news to the guys that hang out at the Old Italian Neighborhood Club.

  38. gocart mozart said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:28

    OT but does anyone know who Patty Hearst is endorsing this election cycle? I haven’t heard anything in the MSM.

  39. actor212 said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:29

    This is the best this jackass can come up with after blowing this story up to be as big as the Second Coming?

    Good lord, the least he could do is throw some, I dunno, impressions by Rich Little in there to make it believable!

    This is almost as funny as “An American Carol,” which is to say, not.

  40. Till Eulenspiegel said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:31

    Obviously, they’re begging the question of the Ayers/Obama “link.”

    Exactly. And bonus points for using that phrase correctly.

    Bill Ayers is a naughty, naughty man. But it’s hardly Obama’s fault that he’s now a free man, well-integrated into society. Obama’s fleeting association with Ayers, as a man involved in Chicago politics, means what exactly? Unless you’re assuming some kind of real Obama/Ayers link, it means nothing.

    Honestly, if you want to go after Obama’s dubious associations, why not revisit Rezko and Wright? These were people Obama was friends with for a long time. He didn’t know Rezko was a slumlord? He didn’t know his preacher was a crazy person? That’s mud with some substance, worth flinging. Instead, McCain and all you little dipshits spend an absurd amount of time whining about this guy who Obama barely knew, who did some bad shit 40 years ago.

  41. Freaks And Goobers, Oh My said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:32

    Barack Obama is leading 53% to McCain’s 34% among those who have already voted, according to a poll released today by the Pew Research Centre.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/28/uselections2008-barackobama1

  42. Petitio Principii said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:35

    Obviously, they’re begging the question of the Ayers/Obama “link.”

    I just wanted to thank you for using “begging the question” in its original, non-deprecated sense.

  43. Rugged in Montana said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:35

    I assure you liberals, that Barack Obama is going to get pulverized on November 4th. All the polls that we’re seeing are biased. The leftwing pollsters are merely oversampling Democrats and blacks to produce the desired result that they want.

    There reasons for doing so are really quite simple, they figure that if they can get enough tainted polls showing Obama with a commanding lead, that conservatives and Republicans will (wrongfully) figure that the election is in the bag for Obama, and not even show up to vote on election day.

    The leftwing pollsters are even doing this is states that McCain will win by a landslide, such as my homestate of Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, and North Carolina. Its really just a desperate, last ditch effort to get Obama elected, because they know that Obama will never win the Presidency in a fair election. My only hope is that the American people are smart enough to realize that these polls are bogus, and vote accordingly.

  44. Rugged in Montana said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:36

    Conservative websites are now distributing reliable information that documents the already established list of Derek Oblammo’s cabinet, should he manage to steal the presidency of the USA of America. The list confirms his ties to Marxist-terrorists and gives weight to the proposal to murder 25 Billion citizens of The Heartland:

    Secretary of State: Bernadine Dohrn (Weather Underground)
    Secretary of the Treasury: Alberto Franceschini (Red Brigade)
    Secretary of Defense: William Ayers (Weather Underground)
    Attorney General: Fusako Shigenobu (Japanese Red Army)
    Secretary of the Interior: Carlos the Jackal (PFLP)
    Secretary of Agriculture: Bertrand Sassoye (Communist Combatant Cells)
    Secretary of Commerce: Cristoforo Piancone (Red Brigade)
    Secretary of Labor: Mick Jones (The Clash)
    Secretary of Health and Human Services: Félix Guattari (French Philosopher)
    Secretary of Housing and Urban Affairs: Suge Knight (Death Row Records)
    Secretary of Transportation: Abimael Guzmán (Shining Path)
    Secretary of Energy Todd Palin (AIP)
    Secretary of Education: Oprah (Televison Personality)

    This list has been validated by Democratic insiders (a taped interview in the Betamax format proving this is expected to be released in Denmark on Thursday, at 26:30 hours, Montana time) and proves the direction that our nation will take under a radical Muslin agenda.

  45. Petitio Principii said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:36

    …oops, Till beat me to it. But this only reinforces my point.

  46. Rugged in Montana said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:37

    Hey……..Wordpress? That ain’t me at 23:35!

  47. El Cid said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:38

    The Truth: It’s obvious — although we liberals didn’t want to admit it, the unfortunate fact is that it appears that the overwhelming majority of Americans support Bill Ayers and domestic terrorism.

    No matter how many times we have tried to dissociate Obama from his tenuous connections, laughably distant compared to the Republicans’ sexual love for death squad leaders, the American People according to every poll seem highly motivated to give Bill Ayers the authority he needs to finish the job.

    I guess the only question which remains is how is that the Republicans, who possessed absolute power over every branch of government from 2002 – 2006, and who held the House since 1994, managed to make Americans love Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, and Lolo Soetaro so much.

    That same America appears to hate and despise Joe the Plumber, even though they know he’s not Joe and he’s not a Plumber.

    Why does so much, the vast majority, the enormous and growing and throbbing majority of America, love Bill Ayers and want to give him power so much?

    Is it something Republicans did?

  48. drlemur said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:38

    The Truth has been coming here for weeks claiming McCain was going to win and we’d see, regardless of the polls. What I want to know is if so, how much money does he have down on McCain in Intrade. If you really do know something, you have the opportunity to make a bundle. Go in for a few thousand.

    And please tell us, so you can rub it in our face when you make all that money. Don’t worry, nobody here will make fun of you in the unlikely chance you lose it all. Really. Seriously.

    I mean, you aren’t too chicken to put up since you can’t shut up, right? Cause that might look like hypocrisy or something.

  49. Scott said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:38

    “Intense scrutiny and criticism”?!?

    THIS IS WORSE THAN THE HOLOCAUST!

  50. Xecky Gilchrist said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:38

    So, how much did Grathwohl contribute to the procedural fuckups that got Ayers’ case thrown out of court?

  51. Rugged in Montana said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:39

    There’s that leftwing faggot again at both 23:36 and 23:37 respectively. I demand that you enforce your policy against name stealing and ban this SOB, immediately.

  52. Till Eulenspiegel said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:40

    Also, Donnie McClurkin. Remember him? Just run ads as the 527 “Gays for McKinney” or something. I don’t think there’s any footage, but you can pull together some good quotes of Obama defending him, then McClurkin using his place on Obama’s gospel concert to bash teh gays.

    C’mon guys. You’re not even trying. You could be launching possibly-effective attacks from multiple angles here.

  53. FlipYrWhig said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:42

    this guy who Obama barely knew, who did some bad shit 40 years ago.

    It’s actually stupider than that. It’s a guy who did bad things 40 years ago, then met Obama, and later said something else stupid about how he’d liked to have had WU “do more,” which happened to appear in the newspaper on 9/11/01. That’s supposed to prove that he was evil all along, tainting everyone in his nefarious path.

    Except the Republicans, of course.

  54. g said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:46

    You liberals are so naive about Chicago

    Yes, I was so totally fooled last time I visited, I didn’t recognize the mass reducation camps, the communal dormitories, and the wholesale torture of the inhabitants, for what they were! those Christmas wreaths on Michigan Avenue may look cheerful, but they’re only window dressing for the true horror that lurks.

  55. Drugged in Montana said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:47

    Hey, who’s that jerk-ass at 23:39? Can’t I get any peace and quiet around here?

  56. Sockpuppet #47 said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:47

    By this kind of thinking, Judges are the WORST people in the world. I mean, just think of all the criminals they meet in passing!

  57. g said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:47

    Secretary of Education: Oprah (Televison Personality)

    Oh, come on, Rugged!! How could you omit the Demon Bill Ayers from this position?

  58. Rugged in Montana said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:47

    ~~~I like to eat farts~~~

  59. Rugged in Montana said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:48

    Wait until November 5th liberals, the Democrat party will lose their sixth presidential election in the past 28 years. They’ll go the way of the Whigs and into the dustbin of American history.

  60. Rugged in Montana said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:49

    Heck, I don’t even know where to begin. But, I’ll start out with this. That liberal, effeminate, homosexual faggot pretending to be me, is just that, an imposter.

    You’ll have to excuse this, folks. My state-monitored observation period concluded with some loony LIEbral doctor insisting that I had some sorta multiple personality disorder. He said the stress of the coming election might cause the emergence of rage in the form of other facets of my being. This one who’s been posting on this thread is “Bruce the Hairdresser” and he gets all sensitive about his job and wants everyone to know that he’s NOT a homosexualist (as if any of MY personalities could be??). Anyway, he’s posting when I’m not aware of it, so…my apologies.

    I can only hope that “Sally the Aging Hooker” doesn’t put in appearance…

  61. Scott said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:50

    I demand that you enforce your policy against name stealing and ban this SOB, immediately.

    First, prove you don’t like to eat farts.

  62. Marco said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:50

    “You liberals are so naive about Chicago, it is to laugh. Everytime you write about it, you display embarrassing ignorance.” The Troof

    Man, is Troof right. As a Chicago resident, I had no clue savage, threatening Irishmen were around every corner waiting to assault me. Here I thought it was teh darkies the whole time.

    I am here to tell you, Troof knows Chicago.

  63. FlipYrWhig said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:51

    You liberals are so naive about Chicago

    Oh my God! Those stockyards are for PEOPLE!

  64. Smut Clyde said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:51

    So, how much did Grathwohl contribute to the procedural fuckups that got Ayers’ case thrown out of court?
    IIRC, Ayers’ case was abandoned because the evidence against him was hopelessly contaminated by the scope of COINTELPRO illegality. There were serious doubts by then about how many crimes the Weathermen would ever have committed if they had not been infiltrated and encouraged by agents provocateur like Grathwohl.
    The whole sorry saga deserves stronger words than “procedural fuckup”.

  65. Rugged in Montana said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:51

    Oh, come on, Rugged!! How could you omit the Demon Bill Ayers from this position?

    He’s gonna be too busy being the Sec of Defense.

  66. stryx said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:52

    this means that either Larry Grathwohl is lying or the FBI let the Weather Underground continue to carry out bombings?

    and

    According to everyone else, Grathwohl was an agent provocateur who instigated violence, promoted ruthlessness, and taught bomb-making attempts, in order to make the Weathermen seem a more credible threat.

    This is the first I’ve ever heard of Larry G, and even from CY’s interview the first conclusion I came to was that he was an FBI plant and that he was probably the loudest of the ‘revolutionaries’. Assuming Larry G is even real.

    It’s always this way. Never trust the guy who is agitating for the the most extreme violent position. He’s a plant. He was planted by the FBI. They already know what you are doing. Plus, sane people generally don’t volunteer for agent provocateur duty. If he really exists, my money’s on him being blackmailed by the FBI into service. Perhaps there was an unfortunate incident involving underaged goats.

    Now, the Bushes and Bin Ladens? There’s a link worth looking in to.

  67. Dan Someone said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:53

    You people missed the single most important thing Larry Grathwohl said:

    Larry Grathwohl: Conversations regarding this occurred in Cincinnati, Detroit, Flint, and Buffalo. Participants included Bill Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn, Mark Rudd, Linda Evans, Jeff Jones, and many others.

    Linda Evans. Linda Evans! How is it that this terrorist was allowed to enter countless American homes for nine years in the innocent guise of Krystle Carrington?

    Let’s not even talk about Jeffrey Jones. Imagine, portraying a high school principal just for the chance to indoctrinate America’s youth with his genocidal communistic propaganda.

  68. Dim-Witted Badger said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:53

    Fucking pelicans.

  69. marindenver said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:55

    “There reasons for doing so are really quite simple, they figure that if they can get enough tainted polls showing Obama with a commanding lead, that conservatives and Republicans will (wrongfully) figure that the election is in the bag for Obama, and not even show up to vote on election day.”

    That’s what the PUMAs are saying!!! Obama is brainwashing us to think there’s no hope! At the Effluence http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2008/10/27/things-we-hope-are-true/. And at the PAC! http://pumapac.org/2008/10/28/astroturfing/ And, and, they have real pumas in Montana!!! OMZOMZOG!!!!! It’s all true – it’s a nefarious Obamabot plot to steal the election! We’re dooooooooomed!

  70. Cletus Forrester de Rothschild said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:56

    Mooser, the TRUTH got things rolling ferya and man, that some funny shit. Funny in a “Honey, these week old pork chops smells funny, should I toss them out?” kinda way.

    CY: Nah, baby, they’re just a bit fuzzy … just toss them on the …

    CY: Omigawd, THE GRILL …
     

    CY: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE FLIPPIN’ GRILL????

     

    CY: It’s … all … over … the … lawn … I … I … never got a … chance to … tell it … ::sob:: … oh grilly … grilly … whyyyyyy? wwwwwwhhuhuhhyyyyyy?

     
     
     
     

    CY: KHAAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  71. Smut Clyde said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:57

    I demand that you enforce your policy against name stealing
    That made me laugh.

  72. Aet said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:57

    Rugged in Montana:

    Continually calling someone a homosexual is considered all the rage among the teenaged. If I was to put a voice to the text, you don’t sound like an adult: you sound like a whiny teenager on XBox.

    And there’s just so many ways to insult people. Like, for example, I could call you an unabashed gun fetishist. The best insults are the ones that are actually true.

    And now the point: government agencies, armies, and other large whatnots routinely conduct tabletop exercises to do things like test readiness in the event of some crisis or catastrophe (think of it as DnD with fewer dice and more status reports). I can see a bunch of misinformed overidealistic and unreasonably over-educated misanthropes using such ass-storming sessions to discuss some genuinely stupid and monstreous things. And just because you’re overeducated doesn’t mean you actually know anything, it just means you’re more likely to be liberal.

    Gee, who would have thought a bunch of 60s radicals would get stoned and talk about overthrowing everything?

  73. Rugged in Montana said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:58

    You LIE-berals are… aw, fuck it.

    Where’s Gary?

  74. Xecky Gilchrist said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:59

    The whole sorry saga deserves stronger words than “procedural fuckup”.

    You’re right, it does. At the moment devising a suitable term is beyond me.

  75. nc_voter said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:59

    OK, yes yes yes, they’ve finally convinced me. I won’t vote for Ayers.

  76. Gary Ruppert said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:00

    Oh, you know, just over here, eating some farts…

  77. Xecky Gilchrist said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:01

    conservatives and Republicans will (wrongfully) figure that the election is in the bag for Obama, and not even show up to vote on election day.

    But that’s good for Republicans! Lower turnout always favors them. So if you want the Republicans to win, don’t go anywhere near the polls on Election Day, and definitely don’t have anything to do with that faggy French anti-democracy commie early voting.

  78. Rugged in Montana said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:02

    Cool!

    It is okay if I schwing by?

  79. Gary Ruppert said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:03

    The fact is, I saved you a big juicy one.

  80. stackozone said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:05

    Grathwohl actually spent his time running messages, getting coffee and doughnuts, and being sent out to buy pencils and crayons.

    He thought the weathermen were a radical, avant-garde, post modernism art colony, with drunken semi-nude hippy chick hangers-on.

    Don’t you see – they used him… THEY USED HIM!!!!!!11!!1!!

  81. Rugged in Montana said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:08

    And yes, I do own an M1A Battle Rifle, nothing quite cuts through cover like a .30-06.

    Good grief, you’re really embarassing myself! Even the DEMONcraps know that an M1A1 Battle Rifle is .475 Casul and is used primarily to hunt pelicans.

    And if that faggot imposter really lives in Montana (which I doubt, because a pantywaist faggot like him wouldn’t last five minutes here) then I’d like to meet him in person, and we’ll settle this one face to face like a couple of men.

    Bruce, would you just settle down? You sound like you have a rash from your assless chaps again! If the two of us were to ever meet, a black hole would form and the rest of the universe would be sucked into it, like if you went back in time and killed your grandfather, Hitler. Take my meds, I’m trying to remind you/myself, ok? We’re just stressing because it looks like muslamosexuals will be driving the busses after next week, but they still have to get uniforms and training and such, so it won’t be THAT quick! Geez.

  82. mikey said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:09

    Actually, I’m grateful to these wackjobs for the whole Bill Ayers saga.

    I didn’t realize, and probably otherwise would NEVER have discovered, that you can watch wonderful “Rowan and Martin’s Laugh-In” clips on You Tube.

    Man, that was some GREAT TV….

    mikey

  83. Christopher said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:20

    Shorter Confederate Yankee: Do you think Obama truly believed Ayers was reformed, simply because Ayers was living a very public life and was neither accused nor suspected of participating in any crimes?

    I really want to know what Mr. Owens thinks “reformed” means.

  84. Kathleen said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:26

    hee! nice work Gavin.

  85. Sean said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:33

    Hey Twoof –

    If the news is about registration fraud and not ‘voter fraud’ I am going to name a fart after you.

    Oops – say hi to Twoof, Jr.

    Love,
    Sean

  86. Rugged in Montana said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:33

    Face it liberals, Obama is not going to win. I don’t know how many times it needs to be spelled out for you, whether by myself or The Truth or whoever.

    First of all your guy is a marxist who wants to redistribute the wealth of the working class. Consider myself for example, as I mentioned earlier I run a sucessful cattle ranching business. Lets face it, nothing tastes quite as good as high quality grass-fed beef. A little over a hundred years ago, my great-grandfather realized that and started his cattle ranching business. It was handed down from father to son, and after my father passed away, I inherited the business.

    But Obama and his leftist supporters, don’t like capitalism. According to Obama, despite the fact the my family and myself have worked hard to make our endevour into a sucessful cattle ranching business, I have to redistribute some of my hard earned wealth to those who, either by their own laziness or stupid decison making, are less well off than myself.

    Second, Obama despises the second amendment and has publiclly called for a ban on the sale and manufacture of handguns. He said this during his run for Senate in 2004, and he won’t admit it now but its well documented. With a radical postition like that, he will never, ever win in rural gunowning states like Montana, Virginia or North Carolina.

    The list of his radical leftwing policies go on and on, including his support for infanticide and his recent comparison of America to Nazi Germany. I’ll go even further than calling Obama a marxist, I’ll call him a utopian socialist, which is even further left than a marxist.

    Face it, your guys a joke, he’s too far left to get elected in Sweden, never mind America.

  87. Dave said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:37

    My God! It’s full of CRAZY!

  88. gocart mozart said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:38

    Mikey, “Laugh-In” was never funny. Goldie Hawn in a bikini, not so bad.

  89. alec said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:41

    Who wants to bet Troof’s been here ever since the corrupt Chicago machine forced him to choose between two black men for Senate? It just seems fitting, you know? Not that Alan Keyes is anything but a raging, homophobic lunatic, but it’s the principle of the thing. Y’know: white power.

    Also: I like that CY completely misses that his source was not only a provocateur but a self-aggrandizing one at that. He’s not the good kind of spook that does it out of some kind of cold-eyed institutional loyalty or duty; he’s just an upper-middle-class version of Charles Manson.

    And he got away with it because people like you, TIDOSY, fucking bought into it! Thanks to your horseshit in the 60s, our national security organs shot their load in the 70s frittering away energy trying to get people Nixon thought were fags to blow up buildings; meanwhile, people with very real and dangerous radical agendas grew and prospered in the necessary darkness of the post-Watergate era.

    In a very real way, not only is Larry Grathwohl responsible for Bill Ayers getting off free (and, for that matter, for his having done anything actionable in the first place), but he bears on his ink-black soul the ultimate blame for al Qaeda growing like a cancer within our borders, he bears responsibility for the Special Forces Underground and the other hard-right domestic terrorists who claimed hundreds of lives from his bungling career to the Reno era.

    Congratulations, TIDOS Yankee. You’ve managed to one-up your open admiration for America’s worst traitors: you’ve gone and found one of America’s worst living ones and given him a pedestal. Woo-hoo! Whaddaya wanna do for an encore, find a dying WW2 vet and wipe your ass with a flag in front of him?

  90. Little German behind a Geranium said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:41

    Verry Interesting…

  91. Smut Clyde said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:41

    Hunting around the Interducts, it appears that the primary source for the claim that charges against Ayers were dropped because of “prosecutorial misconduct” is… um… Grathwohl again. The guy does get around.

    One could be forgiven for thinking that “prosecutorial misconduct” is a term of art for “Only witness prefers to save his allegations for his book rather than testify under oath”, or “Prosecution suspects that the only witness would have no credibility, owing to more evidence existing against him than against the accused.”

  92. mikey said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:45

    Mikey, “Laugh-In” was never funny.

    Whaaa?

    It’s like a sentence comprised of english-language words, and yet it MAKES NO SENSE!!

    I read it, and I wonder. Am I missing a joke here? Is there irony here I am somehow overlooking?

    “Laugh-In” was wall to wall funny. And yeah, Goldie Hawn (along with Judy Carnes) was very hot…

    mikey

  93. Joe Max said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:45

    Ok, let’s fisk this one. (and I apologize for feeding the troll.)

    Joe Max, let’s talk about OKC first. McVeigh is an unrepentant terrorist who (by the way) murdered people more likely to be Republicans than not. I remember that horrible attack very well and I was pleased to see him executed.

    That’s an easy one, but I will congratulate you on your moral compass in this case.

    But you didn’t answer the first question: are you actually old enough to remember the 1960s?

    Do you remember Selma? Wallace on the steps of the school? The Draft? The Tet Offensive? My Lai? Chicago in 1968? Kent State? Attica? The Vietnam Moratoriums? I’m just curious if you have any real experience to form your perspective on that era, or just heresay fed through the filter of other people who weren’t there either, but just know they completely understand it.

    Now, look at Ayers and his group. They bombed buildings, and later on clearly intended to kill police officers and other officials. Yet Ayers, Dohrn, and other are considered respectable members of society. This is a monstrous double standard and is completely inexplicable to me.

    Point number one is that McVeigh killed hundreds, with premeditated intent to do exactly that – as you point out, it was likely that most of his victims were Republican voters. That’s not the same as attacking cops, military bases or anything else that can actually fight back. So it’s not just murder, it’s cold blooded murder of the innocent and helpless.

    Ayers never killed anyone, so this is a false dichotomy. Ayers and his merry band of misfits killed more of themselves than any of their erstwhile targets, and their targets were buildings. Still an reprehensible thing to do, but in the end the Weathermen were far more talk than action. Shit, the damn SLA made them look like pikers.

    Ayers is free because the charges were dropped (Dohrn got a fine, probation and time served.) That’s the system of American justice, lovr it or leave it. I think putting McVeigh and Ayers as criminally equal to each other is absurd, and the justice system agrees.

    What am I afraid of? I’m afraid of this double standard being imposed everywhere. The one place liberals have had unfettered control of for the last several decades – the university – is a place of speech codes and kowtowing to leftist dogma. And look at Joe the Plumber. Who will dare question Leader Obama when the mere act of questioning leads to intense scrutiny and criticism?

    A quaking fear of the imposition of double-standards? Is that what’s keeping you awake at night?

    I work at Berkeley. Tomorrow night I will be coordinating an event at Wheeler Hall, a speech by Walid Shoebat. (Look him up.) It’s sponsored by the Berkeley College Republicans. I’m sure there will be Leftie protesters outside the Hall. But no one is stopping Mr. Shoebat from speaking, not even at the bluest of blue universities in the nation. I will do my best to facilitate his event with all the professionalism I can, as I do with every other client.

    Is this so-called “double standard” simply a matter of a right-wing politics that is at odds with the vast majority of Americans today? That a politics of fear and hate are not given high stature by the general population anymore?

    I play my microscopic violin for you. After the many years of smear and fear politics against liberals ushered in by the “Gingrich Revolution” and capped by President Chimpy McFlightsuit “you’re-either-with-us-or-with-the-terrorists” administration, I think you guys need some time in the political wilderness. It was good for us, it’ll be good for you.

    I have very real concerns about national security (Obama sympathizing with Hamas and Hezbollah), the economy (milking the cow dry), and overall with Obama’s character. He comes out of the slimiest environment you can imagine: Cook County politics. That place is run like a police state.

    You’re still not answering the questions. What exactly are your fears relating to national security? What do you think will happen? Why do you think that reverting to the tax structure of the Clinton era is going to lead to a different result than the prosperity of that period? And what exactly are you thinking that Obama is going to do that is comparable to Cook County politics? Give us an example. All you’re giving us is your “fears” and a lot of allusion.

    Be specific.

    There is more liberal hypocrisy I can point to, and have done on previous threads. Most of you run away from it because – being trained on the groupthink university campuses – you file away any dissent as being “racist” or “fascist.” I can’t see this getting better with an Obama presidency.

    And for many years in the 1960s and 1970s, my dissent was filed away as “communist” or “traitorous”. In the 1980s and 1990s, it was filed away as “socialist” and “anti-American”. Let me break out that microscopic violin for you again…

    All I can see here is you have a pathological fear of being pointed and laughed at. “Hypocrisy” is not terrorism, or murder, or conscription, or political corruption. Let’s hear about actual case examples of the terrible oppression you believe will be wrought by Marxist Muslim Arab Jesus Black White Terrorist Technocrat Racist Do-Gooder Liberal FDR Stalin Hilter Commie Fascist Gay Womanizing Naive Cynical Insider Wonky Boring Radical Unaccomplished Corrupt Elite Slick Gaffe-Prone Pedophile Pedophile-Seducing Liberation Theology Atheist President Barack Obama.

    Open up that nightmare closet of yours and let’s have a peek.

  94. Smut Clyde said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:52

    Dohrn got a fine, probation and time served
    In fact charges were also dropped against Dohrn. The fine and probation were for her refusal to cooperate in the trial of another WU member.

  95. Rugged in Montana said,

    October 29, 2008 at 0:54

    Face it liberals, Obama is not going to win. I don’t know how many times it needs to be spelled out for you, whether by myself or The Truth or whoever.

    Bruce, I keep tellin’ em, but they don’t listen. They’re Marxist zombies, you can’t talk sense to them.

    First of all your guy is a marxist who wants to redistribute the wealth of the working class. Consider myself for example, as I mentioned earlier I run a sucessful cattle ranching business.

    I was getting worried, so I called Dr. Moskowitz (some people say that the Jews are taking over the world, but you didn’t hear it from me) and read him “your” post above. He says that you (me) are suffering from grandiosity, whatever that means. You see, he asked about the “cattle ranching business” and I informed him that I have one aging cow. You may not remember this, but you only came into existance when I was patrolling the perimeters of the yard and slipped on a cowpat, hitting my head on a fencepost.

    Second, Obama despises the second amendment and has publiclly called for a ban on the sale and manufacture of handguns. He said this during his run for Senate in 2004, and he won’t admit it now but its well documented. With a radical postition like that, he will never, ever win in rural gunowning states like Montana, Virginia or North Carolina.

    He may be a Marxist/Muslin/atheist who I will never vote for (even if Montana is turning blue) but I think you’re misrepresenting his position (which said that handguns could still be owned by gay Islams). You’re even more of a hothead about these issue than I am…last night when I was drinking at the Blood Clot, you decided to emerge for a few minutes. I don’t mind, save for the fact that you were screaming about the rights of citizens to own private intercontinental nukes and you got us banned from Butte’s only non-homosexualist drinking establishment for the entire week!

  96. Snorghagen said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:00

    Yes, I was so totally fooled last time I visited, I didn’t recognize the mass reducation camps, the communal dormitories, and the wholesale torture of the inhabitants, for what they were!

    Didn’t you notice the dozens of Chicago city comptrollers hanging from the lampposts?

  97. alec said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:17

    Face it liberals, Obama is not going to win. I don’t know how many times it needs to be spelled out for you, whether by myself or The Truth or whoever.

    First of all your guy is a marxist who wants to redistribute the wealth of the working class. Consider myself for example, as I mentioned earlier I run a sucessful cattle ranching business. Lets face it, nothing tastes quite as good as high quality grass-fed beef. A little over a hundred years ago, my great-grandfather realized that and started his cattle ranching business. It was handed down from father to son, and after my father passed away, I inherited the business.

    But Obama and his leftist supporters, don’t like capitalism. According to Obama, despite the fact the my family and myself have worked hard to make our endevour into a sucessful cattle ranching business, I have to redistribute some of my hard earned wealth to those who, either by their own laziness or stupid decison making, are less well off than myself.

    Second, Obama despises the second amendment and has publiclly called for a ban on the sale and manufacture of handguns. He said this during his run for Senate in 2004, and he won’t admit it now but its well documented. With a radical postition like that, he will never, ever win in rural gunowning states like Montana, Virginia or North Carolina.

    The list of his radical leftwing policies go on and on, including his support for infanticide and his recent comparison of America to Nazi Germany. I’ll go even further than calling Obama a marxist, I’ll call him a utopian socialist, which is even further left than a marxist.

    Face it, your guys a joke, he’s too far left to get elected in Sweden, never mind America.

    OK, slimeball. Fuck you. Listen up. You want to talk grandfathers? We’ll talk grandfathers.

    My granddad got the shit kicked out of him by nuns on a daily basis because his family had basically abandoned him. He dropped out of school in 1945, and without a lot of options he wound up doing odd jobs throughout the West. He shone shoes; he delivered milk; he was the sherriff of a two-horse town in Idaho and wound up being crippled by the anti-asthma battery the FBI gave him after his particularly astounding capture of a spree freak who had robbed a S&W prototype. Had to settle down – not generally in his nature, but he did. He got into the casino, and worked his way from the bottom to general management. Because a man by the name of Duckworth – who had, may I point out, inherited his position on the MGM board – he had a choice between farming out or keeping his head low, working on the floor.

    He went to the Caribbean and kept a razor-sharp eye on a four-star casino. But it went under – owing to no fault of his own – and his name was shit in the business, so it was back to odd jobs. The Vegas economy was awful for it, and so was the West’s in general – this was the early 70s, Reagan’s glory days, and it was only getting worse. He left my dad to pay the mortgage on the family’s house at 16.

    He barely graduated high school, and he and my mother worked four jobs between them. They had to choose to put one of them through college, and because my mother is an artist they put him through it. I suppose – knowing, the real rugged American capitalist you are, a thing or two about manhood – this makes him some kind of liberal elitist homo, but he keeps down a marriage pretty well, so who knows. Anyhow: got into electrical engineering, worked his ass off, and got himself into a home in the suburbs – way out on the margin of the desert. Everything he got he got with strings attached, and everything he did he did on his own.

    But my father is a brilliant man – my grandfather is as well, and you can’t have any idea what it is to see a man who could run the country shucking and jiving for jumped-up poker-playing dudes like you – and while working with the local UMC’s computer-assisted design for trocars he decided he wanted to get into medicine. He had to go overseas – to the Caribbean, ironically enough, although not the same island – and studied every night to the small hours of the morning, by candlelight when the power went out and in indoor conditions I doubt you’ve ever come close to outdoors.

    He’s one of Nevada’s finest surgeons, and he’s paying the debts he had to rack up to become one. Of course, maybe the reason he had to borrow six figures to do what he wanted to – to answer the calling God gave him – was because he was too lazy to be born the heir of a ranching company.

    We were, of course, talking grandfathers, so let me explain to you exactly why you are a piece of shit. My grandfather, you race-baiting closet case, was driven back to America with nothing but the clothes on his back by a communist insurgency. He entertained dignitaries from around the region and the world; one of them was Augusto Pinochet, who my dad says was a real asshole, and another was Fidel Castro, who with great politeness in excellent English asked my twelve-year-old father where he could speak to my grandfather. He told him that he could leave with what was theirs as long as the casino and all its assets stayed on the island.

    My grandfather, who worked hard all his damn life just trying to get a fair shake of things, had to choose between risking his life for MGM’s bottom line and getting the fuck out. That, might I just point out first of all, is ‘Marxism’ – expropriation and violent revolution. My grandfather did not want to risk his family’s lives to protect the casino’s property, so they were persona non grata. He retired the same way – spent thirty years in the business and always stayed honest, had to deal with half the cast of Casino on a daily basis, and left the two-bit hole he worked at last as a pit boss after refusing to stick up as directed for the corrupt daddy’s-boy under investigation for embezzlement.

    You’re a lazy, entitled shithead who knows NOTHING about hard work. You’re not a rugged outdoorsman, you’re an iron-pumping shitdick who wouldn’t last a day without four-wheel drive and a full automatic. You inherited everything you have, and you have the fucking temerity to call anyone on this Earth lazy? I think knowing you existed would turn Adam Smith off of capitalism, you nepotic jack-ass. You’re less than worthless, you’re a drain on this Earth and you’re doing nothing constructive but suckling on the teat of welfare for the rich. Oh, but it’s not ‘lazy’ when it benefits you. It’s nothing to do with ‘lazy’ when you get tax breaks to protect your small business, it’s nothing to do with ‘lazy’ when you get subsidies or marketing benefits. It’s lazy, it’s Marxism, it’s radical and anti-capitalist when someone who worked for a living – what your hallowed grand-pap did – gets a single Goddamn break in this world.

    Fuck you and the horse you pretended to ride in on.

  98. The Truth said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:20

    I dont’ know why I bother with you liberals. I lay out my irrational fears and unfounded concerns and Joe Max wants “examples” and “specifics.” Typical stupid liberals will lose this election for discounting the quaking, bed wetting fear that real-heartland-true-Americans have of change and black men. Democrats will wander in the political wilderness, starting November 5th, until they learn this lesson.

  99. Gavin M. said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:27

    [Polished it up a bit more. I promise I'll stop now.]

  100. Andre said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:29

    Parody troll is parody.

  101. MzNicky said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:35

    mikey: I loved Laugh-In. Henry Gibson, Joanne Worley, Dan Rowan & Dick Martin, Goldie Hawn, Ruth Buzzy, Lily Tomlin, especially as the phone operator lady. One of the breakthrough comedy shows that helped us budding liberals keep our heads together, as it were.

  102. robert green said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:37

    gavin

    what the fuck is wrong with you? don’t you have a job?

    speaking of which, i’m reading (as always) the comments section of your blog.

    don’t i have a job?

    anyone interested in this polar bear horror movie i’m selling? it’s really good!

    alec, you can have it at a discount after that thread winning expurgation of hate. awesome.

  103. DFHPinkoCommieFromMars said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:38

    I was in SDS during that time and knew some of the RYM I and RYM II people that later were part of the WeatherMovement.

    Know what?

    They were loud talking, ignorant, asshats. The only thing they successfully destroyed was the SDS. Their largest body-count came when they blew themselves up.

    The Red-Squad FBI were asshats too. They bungled the investigation and evidence gathering so badly the judge threw them and the case out of his courtroom.

    Grathwohl is a two-bit bottom feeder whose one minute of fame made him a D-Class celebrity among the knuckledragging mouth breathing set; I’ll bet him and CY got along just fine.

  104. ice weasel said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:39

    Sorry Gavin, this is worst post here in a month (of very good posts).

  105. Gavin M. said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:44

    Sorry Gavin, this is worst post here in a month (of very good posts).

    You mean seriously?

  106. The Truth said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:46

    I have to agree with ice weasel, even if he is a liberal. Your continued refusal to post on the fact that John McCain will be the next president of the United States exposes you as the leftist apparatchik which you are.

  107. The Truth said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:48

    Sorry folks, ignore the fake Truth at 1:44. Why can’t you guys make your (silly, hopeless, liberal) points without name spoofing?

  108. Rugged In Montana said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:49

    I was just stroking my battle rifle when it accidentally went off, and now I have to clean up with nothing but an old gym sock and this copy of Guns and Ammo.

  109. Alvin Lucier said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:50

    I want you to imagine sitting in a room with 25 people

    I am typing in a blog different from the one you are in now. I am recording the key-strokes of my typing fingers and I am going to play them back into the blog again and again until the resonant frequencies of the blog reinforce themselves so that any semblance of my typing, with perhaps the exception of rhythm, is destroyed. What you will read, then, are the natural resonant frequencies of the blog articulated by typing. I regard this activity not so much as a demonstration of a physical fact, but more as a way to smooth out any irregularities my typing might have.

  110. robert green said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:59

    the truth

    wait, really? you really believe free speech for one particular side has been chilled? you should sit in some of the rooms i sit in. i promise you that rupert murdoch is NOT worried about any of his speech being “chilled” or even just brought down to room temperature. he will continue to sell his right wing newspapers to idiots, and he will continue to do quite well with fox news, which he readily admits is a right-wing propaganda news organization. he thinks people like you are idiots, sure, but the useful kind–the kind who whine and whine (still non-specifically, and no, “speech codes” at college, however pernicious, do not count as they don’t impact every aspect of a person’s life, only one limited slice, and only in a very limited way, which is NOT what you are claiming) about the evil conspiracy of the MSM. sean hannity and bill oreilly just reupped to MASSIVE deals. do you think a genius like murdoch would do such a thing if he thought he wasn’t going to be able to let them speak?

    even a cursory look at obama’s record suggests that what you are going to get is a middle-of-the-road-to-slightly-left technocratic administration with a lot of leftover warm bodies from the clinton days.

    hamas and hezbollah represent people who have been fucked–by others, by themselves, and by circumstance. the people they represent are just as human, and just as important, as two middle class first world white people fighting on a blog. that their representation includes terrible crimes committed and horrible words said makes them like EVERY OTHER FUCKING GOVERNMENT ON EARTH. this is obvious. obama’s actual statements about hamas (hezbollah, until you cite a specific and legit source, seems like bullshit to me) is reasonable–they do have grievances that the entire world agree must be dealt with. that is not controversial. obama did not agree with hamas’s methods, but then here i go again assuming you are an honest broker in this argument. you aren’t.

  111. Snorghagen said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:59

    Speaking of 1969, has Charles Manson made any endorsements?

  112. tigrismus said,

    October 29, 2008 at 1:59

    Rugged in Montana said,

    October 28, 2008 at 23:39 (kill)

    If there is a one commenter per name policy now, I say this one sucks and I would rather keep the cute, funny one. Plus HE HAS SALTINES.

  113. Larry Johnson said,

    October 29, 2008 at 2:04

    And, I have the Michelle Obama “whitey” tape! It is a truly STUNNING October surprise.

    I’ll put it on the Internet for public viewing as soon as mumble mumble.

  114. dixie chicks said,

    October 29, 2008 at 2:34

    what are we down the memory hole already?

  115. graeme frost said,

    October 29, 2008 at 2:38

    What about me? Also forgotten.

  116. Lesley said,

    October 29, 2008 at 2:40

    There’s no question that the Weather Underground was batshit crazytown when it operated. It took root during a very crazed time in US history that Bob Owens, among others, is much too young, inexperienced and (mostly) stupid to even begin to appreciate. But WTF? It happened 40 fucking years ago. If Ayers was even remotely a threat today he’d be in Gitmo and the US certainly has all the power in the world to put him there if it wants to which it doesn’t. Evidently Ayers is of no concern to the FBI, the CIA or any US authority or police force. What’s more, Saint Ronald Reagan’s closest pals consorted with the “revolutionary”. So if Owens is going to try to build a case against Democrats for some remote association, he’s going to have to include Republicans too. As far as I can tell, Bob Owens – also of batshit crazy town, the wingnut edition – has no concern about any of the Republicans who’ve associated with Ayers.

    As for this FBI undercover whatsit… heh. I know, it’s not him, but wouldn’t it be funny?

  117. The Truth said,

    October 29, 2008 at 2:41

    Also, libs, I like to eat farts. It is to fart (and eat it).

  118. squeaky fromme said,

    October 29, 2008 at 2:42

    Tell me about it.

  119. Smut Clyde said,

    October 29, 2008 at 2:46

    Speaking of 1969, has Charles Manson made any endorsements?
    It’s fair to ask, who’s been inspired by his Helter Skelter strategy?

  120. Smut Clyde said,

    October 29, 2008 at 2:54

    I have found actual evidence to prove the existence of the tape!

    Come to think of it, most of the figures in contemporary US politics seem to be characters from a John Sladek novel.

  121. Smut Clyde said,

    October 29, 2008 at 2:55

    That should read, actual evidence to prove the existence of the tape!

  122. Joe Max said,

    October 29, 2008 at 3:08

    The Truth sez:
    You said that you are on a liberal campus. Do you have speech codes there? Care to share what they are? That will give you part of an idea of what I’m afraid of.

    Sure, Truthy, I’d be glad to:

    Protected Group Harassment Policies:

    Code of Student Conduct: Harassment 07-08

    For the purposes of these policies, ‘harassment’: a) is the use, display, or other demonstration of words, gestures, imagery, or physical materials, or the engagement in any form of bodily conduct, on the basis of race, color, national or ethnic origin, alienage, sex, religion, age, sexual orientation, or physical or mental disability, that has the effect of creating a hostile and intimidating environment sufficiently severe or pervasive to substantially impair a reasonable person’s participation in University programs or activities, or use of University facilities; b) must target a specific person or persons; and c) must be addressed directly to that person or persons.

    There’s more, and it all is qualified by “…if it is sufficiently severe to deny or limit a person’s ability to participate in or benefit from University educational programs, employment, or services.” Oh, there’s this:

    “Mandatory Student Orientation Materials: No policies found.

    Policies on Diversity and Multiculturalism: No policies found.

    Student Fee Policies Affecting Freedom of Association: No policies found.

    Other Policies Restricting Freedom of Association: No policies found.”

    I got all that from the right-wing FIRE (thefire.org) website, so I’m even giving you the “choice” source.

    Yes, that all does sound like a prescription for jackbooted hippie thuggery to me. Obviously it makes the distribution of McCain/Palin campaign literature or Republican voter drives on campus (I have seen both here) punishable by expulsion, jail time, and a severe wedgie. The PC Police are passing out the ball gags and thumbscrews on Sproul Plaza as we speak. [/snark]

    Here’s another question for you: have you ever actually been to any “extreme liberal” college campus like Berkeley, much less spent any time in one? I saw the College Republicans and the College Democrats set up side-by-side at tables on the Plaza just last week, with their signs and voter registration clipboards. I saw no one screaming at or spitting on the Republicans, and to me from twenty feet away, it looked like they were conversing with each other without rancor.

    I just wonder if you’ve ever actually had an example of your own lying eyes for any of the things you rail about here regularly. Do you have any actual experience to bring to the table, or is this all just the “gut instincts” (and Townhall.com blogs) you Republicans count on to make your decisions?

    Obama said he understands where Hamas and Hezbollah are coming from, and that they have legitimate grievances. These are terrorist organizations that wish to exterminate Israel, grant hegemony to Iran, and impose Shia rule over the Middle East. I’d say that’s a pretty specific criticism.

    And therefore what do you think Obama will do, based on these assumptions? You’re still not being specific. You are being illogical, because Hamas and Hezbollah being terrorist organizations has no bearing on whether or not their grievances are legitimate or not. Violent reaction doesn’t logically de-legitimize the grievance.

    Here’s an example you may have read about somewhere. I think we can agree that african-americans in the South under Jim Crow laws had a legitimate grievance. Some reacted violently to this injustice, like the Nation of Islam. Others reacted non-violently, like Martin Luther King. Neither reaction had anything to do with whether or not the grievance was legitimate.

    Obama wants to raise taxes. Sure, he says it’s only on the rich. Fundamentally, though, there is no way to know where this ends. Frankly I’m more concerned about the protectionist noises he’s made. That specific enough for you?

    The first point is Argumentum Ad Ignorantiam: we should fear something we don’t know and can’t prove. That’s not specific. No cigar.

    “Protectionist noises” is about as non-descriptive as anything a I’ve seen you say. I’m sorry if I’m not up on right-wing dogwhistle code, but what protectionist policies has Obama made “noise” about? Be specific.

    His character is unquestionably in doubt. Ayers is a sociopath and one good thing coming out of this election cycle is watching that filth squirm. I have a much bigger problem with Obama sitting in Wright’s church, with his children, listening to white America being blamed for all the ills of his community. I have a much bigger problem with Obama endorsing Todd Stroger, a slimy corrupt politican who treats the Cook County treasury as his own private bank account. That specific enough for you?

    Yes, that’s specficially all Argumentum ad Hominem via guilt by association. You keep talking about what people Obama has known do or have done, but never say anything about what Obama has done that isn’t associated with some other persons acts, not his.

    You are still not answering the basic question: given all those awful associations, what do you expect Obama to do that is informed or influenced by those associations? Be specific.

  123. Joe Biden Bitch-slapped The Truth While Doing His Mom said,

    October 29, 2008 at 3:21

    If you didn’t believe The Fuck was the same shithead as the one that runs Confederate Fucknut (as in, THE TRUTH IS BOB OWENS), please note how quickly The Queef responds to threads that concern Confederate Penisless.

    Just saying.

  124. Loreleï said,

    October 29, 2008 at 3:31

    This has to be one of the most amusing comment threads I have read in a while. So much angst, beautifully mixed with a healthy dose of sheer hatred and fart eating. Who could ask for more?

  125. the fart monster said,

    October 29, 2008 at 3:37

    so…hungry…for…truth…

  126. Ragged In Montana said,

    October 29, 2008 at 3:43

    Heck , with all of my manly posturing and gun barrel stroking , while I try to assert my manliness and definitely NOT gayness , I realized that I have worked up a very manly appetite. Does anybody have a spare bag’o dicks I can eat?

  127. ice weasel said,

    October 29, 2008 at 3:54

    Hay Gavin, no one can bang it over the fence every time. And though I am tempted to change my view just to be as far from the fuck, errrr…I mean the truth, I can’t. Sorry, this one just lost me. Maybe it’s just me.

    Still love you like a brother. You still rock my world and now I’m going to bask in the glow of two new posts.

  128. Honus said,

    October 29, 2008 at 4:14

    Hey, Truth, wasn’t it your guy Bush’s mouthpiece Ari Fleischer who warned Americans that they should “watch what they say”?
    Rugged in Montana- You’re “approximately 6 feet tall, and 213lbs? That means you’re probably really 5’9″ You sound like a little fat boy to me. I never knew many working farmers who had to work out much in the gym to stay solid, but i guess “fairly wealthy” “ranchers” like you and George Bush need to get some exercise. When you’re not out kicking ass, or shooting things with your M1A “battle rifle” Nobody has carried one of those boat anchors for years, let alone a “fairly wealthy” “rancher” who could afford a nice Model 70 in 7mm or .300 magnum.

  129. FlipYrWhig said,

    October 29, 2008 at 4:15

    Oh my God! H & H Bagels!

  130. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

    October 29, 2008 at 4:19

    Whatever, booger.

  131. Barack Obama pimpslapped The Queef said,

    October 29, 2008 at 4:24

    Do yourselves a favor, Sadly, No!, and ban Bob The Racist from posting here. Oh, wait, I mean The Queef. Whatever he goes by.

  132. rotten mcdonald said,

    October 29, 2008 at 4:27

    wait, there are saltines?

    I’d like some saltines.

  133. Ken A IS A Lowery said,

    October 29, 2008 at 4:28

    Man, I am fucking tired of the UCC getting called a racist church.

  134. paft said,

    October 29, 2008 at 4:31

    If you haven’t yet, check out comment #164, from “Fred,” the guy who’s daydreaming about pulling a Pinochet if things don’t go the way he wants in the next few years.

  135. Marco said,

    October 29, 2008 at 4:43

    Hi Marco,

    “Actually was looking for you. Watch WFLD news tonight; you’ll get an update on voter fraud. Enjoy!”- The Troof

    I thought I saw you on my lawn, but sadly, Troof, right now they’re playing something about Scott & Laci Peterson – or rather, the liberal plot to kill Laci Peterson and blame it on Scott the Cop.

    Just produce the report you mention previously. Hell, I even gave you the page count. Or just man up and admit the truth of its findings. We both know what they were, unless you refuse to admit it.

  136. Olga Texts-Degenerative said,

    October 29, 2008 at 4:53

    I thought Garrett wrote a very nice article.

  137. Joe Max said,

    October 29, 2008 at 5:03

    Joe Max, thanks for posting the speech codes at your university. I myself prefer the First Amendment. I truly would not want to live in an environment where a “gesture or word” from me, interpreted by someone else as offensive, could land me in trouble.

    So shouting “FIRE!” in a crowded theatre is OK then? Porn on the Internet for kids? Organizing a lynch mob? Do you draw the line anywhere on free speech rights?

    You do? OK, we’re just quibbling over the price for your whoredom then.

    Personally, I’ve got a pretty libertarian attitude toward 1st Amendment rights. If a bunch of idiots want to dress up in Nazi outfits and goose-step around the campus, let ‘em. I get to point and laugh out loud at them, and launch into a rousing refrain of “Springtime for Hitler.”

    See, what you seem to be demanding is the “right” not to be ridiculed and ignored. You want “the right to have my speech be respected.” Sorry, but that definitely is NOT in the Constitution.

    Laws against harassment is found in most state, county and city criminal codes too. But as with the rules against harassment at Berkeley, the burden of proof is high. Damages must be demonstrated by evidence.

    You make these restrictions sound quite benign, but such paternalism can turn nightmarish very rapidly.

    So how about describing your nightmare? It’s been four rounds of posts so far I’ve been asking you, and you still won’t do it. Let’s try that fill-in-the-blanks game you like so much:

    “When Obama becomes president, it will result in ___________________.”

    To play the game, the blank must be filled in with one of the following: an actual law or budget proposed to Congress, an Executive Order signed, a decision as Commander-in-Chief, or a foreign or domestic policy initiative presented in a major address to the nation. That should give you plenty to work with.

    IOW, actions, not words or associations or tendencies or whatever nameless paranoia is bubbling in your fever swamp of right-wing nightmares.

    If you want to succeed in scaring us, give us something actual and concrete to be scared about.

  138. sagra said,

    October 29, 2008 at 5:03

    I love how Bill Ayers is supposed to be ready to start blowing people up any minute, and yet somehow TIDOS Wankee has absolutely no fear that Ayers will start by blowing up right wing blowhards like himself.

  139. Rugged in Montana said,

    October 29, 2008 at 5:10

    wait, there are saltines?

    I’d like some saltines.

    Oh, I’ve got tons of them, come on over if you don’t mind eating ’60′s era Civil Defense supplies!

  140. Coolprecfog Ruby said,

    October 29, 2008 at 5:29

    Can you think of any person who questioned Bush being excoriated the way JTP has?

    Helen Thomas.

  141. Ken A IS A Lowery said,

    October 29, 2008 at 6:16

    JTP is an obvious tool of the campaign. McCain bringing him up several times during the last freaking debate absolutely guaranteed he’d be looked into–and it’s incredibly disingenuous to pretend otherwise. He is now, of course, stumping for McCain. He hardly counts as some private figure unfairly thrust into the spotlight.

    Try again.

  142. Sadly, No! » Psst. Ace. We Have The Tape. said,

    October 29, 2008 at 7:19

    [...] fact, we have all of the tapes. This one. And this [...]

  143. Joe Max said,

    October 29, 2008 at 7:23

    Joe Max, it’s nice that you make free speech equivalent with Nazis marching around your campus. It’s a gentle demonization of anyone who disagrees with you.

    Now your vast powers extend to reading my mind as well as Barack Obama’s.

    No, Truthy, it was an example of the Platonic method of using an extreme example to illustrate a point, the point being that I don’t believe in restricting anyone’s right to blather nonsense in public.

    Unless you suffer under a persecution complex, in which case you take it and everything as a personal affront.

    And you have the gall to complain about political correctness? Are you trying to chill my free speech rights?

    I am very curious to see what kind of hatred is going to be released next week – the absurd triumphist writings here and at other liberal sites is an interesting preview.

    It will be interesting, I agree. But don’t confuse hatred with mockery and derision. Mockery and derision are their own ends. Hatred is something that leads to actual violence (not the imaginary kind that hasn’t happened yet.)

    I’d prefer to think of free speech in terms of … say.. being able to ask a question of our Glorious Leader (which he will never be), without being ripped apart by the press. You never answered my earlier question – Can you think of any person who questioned Bush being excoriated the way JTP has?

    Can you give me an example where Bush used the citizen who asked a question as a full-blown presidential campaign theme, up to and including hiring the guy as a campaign surrogate? Nobody cared about that bit of video until McCain made a big deal out of it. If McCain hadn’t seized on that otherwise forgettable episode and made it iconic, poor ol’ Joe the not-Plumber would still be not-plumbing and contracting without a license in the same obscurity again after one half of a news cycle. Now, if McCain made a campaign theme out of Joe the not-Plumber without his permission, then Joe the not-Plumber was being abused, and if he didn’t like it he should have asked McCain to stop. Then he could have sued the McCain campaign for publicly humiliating him.

    Since he didn’t do any of these things, we have to assume he was doing what he wanted to do.

    As I said in the next post’s comments: I have no sympathy.

    Any fair viewing of the full length video of Joe the not-Plumber’s question and answer with Obama can see that Obama went out of his way to explain the wonky details of his policies to Joe the not-Plumber. At the end of it, Joe the not-Plumber seemed to be satisfied with the answer, even if he disagreed with Obama’s position.

    You still seem to think that Constitutional rights include a right not to be criticized or mocked for making idiotic statements in front of media cameras, as has been Joe the not-Plumber’s wont since his 15 minutes arrived. I think you long for the good old “fair and balanced” days of media coverage, where a liberal makes a policy statement that is rational and sensible, a conservative makes a statement that is batshit crazy, and the media is expected to give both statements equal weight, and divide the “consensus view” at some imaginary “halfway point”. (See “Overton Window.”) Sadly, you guys have pushed it so far into batshit crazy that it’s finally backfired on you.

    Let’s get on to the meat of your question. Your fundamental premise is flawed – I am not here to convince commited leftists. I’m here to call you out on your hypocrisy, and to amuse myself at your expense. So far so good. But on to your question.

    Then let me riposte with the words of William Blake: “When I tell any truth it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those who do.” That’s why I bother with you, Truthy. It’s not for your sake, believe me.

    I’ll give you two answers:

    When Obama becomes president, it will result in a weaker economy, as the country becomes more protectionist and taxes are raised.

    Unqualified comparison: weaker than what economy? Weaker than Bush’s economy? Pretty low standard you’re demanding there, Truthy.

    Or “weaker” than the imaginary Randian no-tax free-market paradise that has never existed in the history of the world? “Compared to my dream economy that doesn’t exist, Obama’s is weaker!!!”

    When Obama becomes president, it will result in a less safe country, as we take our foot off of al Qaeda’s neck.

    Extremely unqualified declaration. What exactly is this “foot on Al Qaeda’s neck” you speak of? I assume you don’t mean that President Bush has a bound, gagged Al Qeada terrorist under the desk in the Oval Office with his wingtips resting on his throat. It’s an allegory, right? So what exactly do you mean non-allegorically, and how will the change in administrations mean that allegorical “foot” will be removed, and what exactly will be the operational, real world result of this de-footing? Be specific.

    Loose nuke attacks? Drive by terror shootings? A repeat of the 1973 Arab-Israeli War? (Is that another one you’re too young to remember?) What exactly?

    (Note: Hamas “dancing in the streets” is not an “operational” result.)

  144. Mysticdog said,

    October 29, 2008 at 8:24

    ” Two US born lawyers (Attorney Berg) and (Attorney Dowd of Washington) will be assisting the Canadian born Attorney.”

    Think that could be Phillip Berg of the Xenia “JUDGE ORDERS OBAMA CAMPAIGN END” Fame?

  145. Country Dick Montana said,

    October 29, 2008 at 9:03

    ““When Obama becomes president, it will result in” epic bed-wetting.

  146. D.N. Nation said,

    October 29, 2008 at 15:19

    Heh indoozle, The Troof finally let out that he thinks Bush owns. It’s like getting blood from a stone to get wingers to admit they still wuv the preznit, but there it is.

  147. Below Me said,

    October 29, 2008 at 15:51

    “I’d prefer to think of free speech in terms of … say.. being able to ask a question of our Glorious Leader (which he will never be), without being ripped apart by the press. You never answered my earlier question – Can you think of any person who questioned Bush being excoriated the way JTP has?”

    Joe Wilson / Valarie Plame?

  148. melanophis said,

    October 29, 2008 at 20:10

    Can you think of any person who questioned Bush being excoriated the way JTP has?

    Steven Howards?

  149. melanophis said,

    October 29, 2008 at 20:13

    Can you think of any person who questioned Bush being excoriated the way JTP has?

    Cindy Sheehan?

  150. PopeRatzo said,

    October 29, 2008 at 20:27

    When Comrade Obama takes over, can I be in charge of torturing the Confederate Yankee? I don’t mean “torture”, I mean “aggressive interrogation techniques”.

    I’d suggest stripping him nekkid and putting a black hood over his head and then having women interrogators humiliate him, but he’s already shown he has great resistance against those techniques.

    Putz that he is.

  151. jim said,

    October 29, 2008 at 22:35

    Posting in an epic thread!

    ‘Among those indicted by a federal grand jury in Detroit on March 6, 1970 for conspiracy to bomb police and military installations was Larry G. Grathwohl – reputedly one of the “most militant members of the SDS Weatherman faction – an FBI infiltrator, known as a demolitions expert, who gave bomb-making lessons to the group, regularly brandished both a .357 magnum revolver and a straight razor, and admitted to the New York Times having personally participated in the bombing of a public school near Cincinnati in 1969. Charges were dropped against Grathwohl (but not against his alleged co-conspirators who, by then, had gone underground), and he “retired” into the Bureau’s witness protection program, eventually writing a sensationally self-serving account of his exploits entitled Bringing Down America: An FBI Informer with the Weathermen.’

    Oh come now – the FBI would NEVER actually HELP terrorists to blow up Americans, would they?

    Oops.

    Um …

    Never mind, America – you’re very very safe – go back to watching American Idol & Desperate Housewives – your government knows what’s good for you … Scout’s Honor!

    When Obama becomes president, it will result in a weaker economy, as the country becomes more protectionist and taxes are raised.
    When Obama becomes president, it will result in a less safe country, as we take our foot off of al Qaeda’s neck.

    Your country is neither safe, nor does it have a strong economy, right NOW – unless you think lots of survivalist/Dominionist nutjobs stockpiling ammo while frothing about how much they’ll get off on blowing shit up if their guy loses makes you “safer” … while even giants like Ford & GM are going to BushCo for emergency corporate-welfare bonuses to avoid Chapter 11 … Obama would have to launch an ICBM strike on Wall Street to match the devastation Bush has wrought since circa 2004 … oh, & please recall: Clinton raised taxes in a recession, & America’s economy went straight into a boom.

    Protectionism? Oh, you poor ignorant sap. PoliSci 101 FAIL. Yeah, a trade-war with the rest of the world at the start of a deep recession is just what Obama’s got in mind, I’m sure.

    You’re zero for two.

    The Bush administration has engaged Islamic terrorism on all fronts possible: military, diplomatic, financial, intelligence, etc.

    Heck of a job, Georgie!

    The result has been no attacks on the US since 2001.

    Given that – as anyone with a clue knows damn well – all US Embassies are by law American soil, I believe the exact phrase I’m looking for here is: you are totally full of shit.

    Thanks for failing.

  152. Tehanu said,

    October 29, 2008 at 22:52

    “The result has been no attacks on the US since 2001.”

    There have been lots of attacks — just none succeeding on U.S. soil. I guess in Troofy’s world, a vicious, deadly attack on our closest ally (7/7, anyone?) counts as a great Bush success. And who is Al-Qaeda’s neck? It’s obviously not Osama Bin Laden, because Bush & Co. HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHERE HE IS and don’t care — after all, Osama only murdered 3,000 not-real-pro-Americans in that evil, elitist, not-small-town New York.

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