19
It’s time to bring back the public stocks
Jesus Christ:
U.S. Stock Markets Soar on Financial Rescue Plan
The government’s financial rescue plan continued to spur a immense Wall Street rally today as investors rushed back to the market.
After shooting up more than 400 points at the opening bell, The Dow Jones industrial average was up more than 370 points, a 3.4 percent gain, by 2:30 p.m. That is on top of a 400-point gain late yesterday after news of a government program began to emerge and could bring the market to break-even for the week. The technology-heavy Nasdaq was up 2.5 percent and Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index rose 3.7 percent.
Global markets also traded up on the news. European markets rose on the order of 5 to 9 percent, while Asian markets overnight added anywhere from 4 to 9 percent.
In what amounts to a further restructuring of the financial market, the government said it would take on the bad debts of troubled financial firms, prop up money-market mutual funds and temporarily ban short selling of financial stocks. After watching the demise of Lehman Brothers, the quick sale of Merrill Lynch to Bank of America and a $85 billion loan to salvage American International Group, investors appeared more confident that the government intervention could have a lasting impact.
“It’s a massive relief rally on the back of the comprehensive plan,” said Joseph Brusuelas, chief economist for Merk Investment. “If you have hundreds of millions of mortgage-backed securities on your books that you cannot value — much less sell — you can now unload them to the U.S. government.”
In other words: the stock market is rallying because stupid rich people won’t have to suffer any consequences for the shitty investments they’ve made over the past decade.
It’s times like these where I start getting pitchfork-and-torches angry. Make no mistake, this bailout plan will have a massive opportunity cost. National health care just became that much more difficult because we’re going to be spending $1 trillion to bail out a bunch of irresponsible Wall Street assholes. The sheer amount of shit that the American taxpayer is about to devour cannot be calculated. Our choice boil down to:
- Borrowing a crapload more money from the Chinese and adding God knows how much to our national debt.
- Paying significantly higher taxes and getting precisely nothing in return except for the knowledge that rich people won’t feel bad about themselves.
It’s time to bring back the pillory stocks, my friends. I want Bush, Paulson, Cox, Bernanke and the heads of AIG, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and Fannie and Freddie locked up for years on end so that we may hurl vegetables and feces at them to our hearts’ content. Because hey, if we’re going to be sacrificing our Social Security and our health insurance to save the Wizards of Wall Street, we might as well get *something* out of the deal.
UPDATE: It’s a cold day in hell when I agree with Larry Kudlow:
The decision by SEC Chairman Chris Cox to ban short selling is a terrible idea. It is an encroachment on free-market principles. In extreme, the absence of short sellers would inflate stock market upturns, probably into bubbles. Short sellers keep the market honest. I know many in the short-selling community and most of them really do their homework. They are skeptical about puff pieces on companies and they are properly cynical about corporate press releases.
If anything, we should be thanking the short sellers for calling bullshit on a lot of these financial institutions. Now the SOBs will feel free to invest billions more into shit sandwiches and tell us how awesome they taste.
Goddammit I’m pissed.
javafascist said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:16
Real hubris is knowing that these same recipients of government money will continue to bitch that the capital gains tax rate is too high.
A Mom Anon said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:18
Is this even legal? And if it is,why?
Like Palin/McCain I don’t understand any of this crazy ass shit. It’s almost like the whole”economy” is a bunch of made up,arbitrary crap.
But seriously,I’m scared to have money in any bank right now.
Gary Ruppert said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:21
The fact is, this bailout is a solidly conservative and fre market strategy. This whole situation will be resolved quite nicely, as long as the USA haters here shut their damn mouths and WORK A LITTLE HARDER.
EdgewaterJoe said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:23
So this “Gary Ruppert” character — who is he and what’s the concept behind such a satirical know-nothing bozo?
Daniel said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:24
Shorter Gary Ruppert:
Conservatism and Corporate socialism have just come full circle, and when you don’t have to own up to your mistakes, conservatism wins.
marceaumarceau said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:29
Jacquerie!!!
Jacquerie!!!
Jacquerie!!!!
Heads Should Roll « Beware The Man said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:31
[...] This would be good, too. [...]
Suicidal Zebra said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:33
Privatise Profit, Nationalise Risk, it’s the freemarket way! And to think, in a couple of decades we’ll be doing this all over again.
Yipee
o'scrod said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:36
They’ll only get away with it if the foreclosed and the un-insured, and those who have lost their retirement savings let them. And Bush and Co. are praying feverishly that their victims let them get away with it. I am genuinely shocked by McCain’s corruption - I really thought that there was a limit beyond which a candidate could not publicly go. But this morning he was out there rabble-rousing, pointing the finger at the ruling elite, calling for change with anger in his voice. We’re such suckers.
Loneoak said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:38
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but won’t the US Gov’t likely almost break even or even make money off of these stock bailouts? When we gave $85B to AIG, it was at 11% interest and with their stock as collateral. Their stock has nowhere to go but up, so we got it bargain basement. And then the mortgages that the new entity will buy at a bargain can be renegotiated so they can actually be paid off over time at a profit to the taxpayers. Most of those mortgages are under terrible conditions, but could be made stable if the Gov’t owns them. The reason they aren’t any good right now is because they can’t be easily renegotiated with the ownership and risk spread so widely. And a lot of people are going to lose their home unless a huge buyer like the US Gov’t sweeps in.
I too want the execs who set this crap up to be but into the stocks so we can throw rotten tomatoes and moldy mooseburgers at them, but all in all this sure seems to be the best for us proles at the moment. The flip side of the opportunity costs here aren’t any better than how that money is getting spread around right now.
actor212 said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:39
Brad,
First, keep in mind that we actually made money off Resolution Trust Corp.
Next, at this point, banning short sales is only going to trigger another, possibly bigger crisis: a hedge fund meltdown. Hedge funds invest contra-market, and while many smart hedge fund managers got out of short positions a long time ago, there are many billions of dollars still in short positions. I’m not sure that this may not be even bigger than the short sale manipulation scam, but I’d bet its on a par with it.
Finally, your points about a trillion dollars and health care is part of a long term concerted effort on the part of Republicans to throttle anything but absolutely minimal spending on anything beyond defense and lining the pockets of their cronies.
Brad said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:39
Loneoak — the gov’t is taking responsibility for assets that are worth nothing. I don’t see how any good can come from this.
Gary Ruppert said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:41
So this “Gary Ruppert” character — who is he and what’s the concept behind such a satirical know-nothing bozo?
The fact is, it’s an art form.
Grover Norquist said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:42
Liberals and leftists, please shut up and leave us alone. The government should stay out of the free market, except when my investments tank, because I work hard, or something.
Legalize said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:45
Loneoak, with the govt. buying up billions in shitty mortgages, there is also the tremendous risk of fraud, i.e. overvalued paper. Although, chances are, every single mortgage will be overvalued to some extent. We should expect a lot of whoppers though. The fraud will make Katrina spending look perfectly innocent.
Dragon-King Wangchuck said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:48
Is this why it’s called Talk Like a Pirate Day?
o'scrod said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:59
Is AIG going to turn a profit for the US taxpayer? As a consequence of a downgrading AIG was forced basically overnight to produce back-breaking amounts of cash. These payments represented a fraction of the total obligations to which the company is committed. Apparently no one really knows the full extent of the obligations, nor their creditworthiness. It is not unthinkable that over the course of the next few days, weeks, months they will drive the company irretrievably into the red. And that ultimately the US taxpayer will be responsible for the debt. I can’t calculate the chances of recouping the 82 b plus a little profit and I bet Paulson can’t either.
D.N. Nation said,
September 19, 2008 at 21:59
Stone-headed libertarians love them some Calvin Coolidge, but let’s really analyze his famous quote:
To me, that ain’t free market in the slightest. That’s America doing whatever it takes- supporting, coddling, kissing up to, all while ignoring damn near everything else- to make the corporate class happy. No matter what principles are chucked out the window.
Suicidal Zebra said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:00
Oh, and because it is so fitting today:
The Crimson Permanent Assurance
WereBear said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:07
Crisis/opportunity.
Hackneyed as it is, it’s true. Today, I saw two sad, frightened little men face the news cameras to talk about this crisis, only to babble and whine.
Then… I saw a President.
The psychology of this, in a time of heightened emotion, is incredibly persuasive.
I’m sure a lot of people were sitting around, trying to imagine him as President.
They don’t have to imagine anymore.
AND Obama made a point in his speech today that if we can extend a helping hand to the people on Wall Street, we can do the same thing for people on Main Street.
That’s the kind of talk I was hoping to hear, and I heard it.
Your Uncle Bastard said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:07
Avast ye scurvy knaves, off the plank with ye and yer accursed kind! Arr! Any any treasure ye be seein’ at the bottom o’ the briny ’tis yers to have an’ to hold, yarrr…
Righteous Bubba said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:11
Quick! Google up some first aid instructions for a sucking chest wound!
Oh no you don't! said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:12
You missed the point a bit. Lehman, Bear, and the others had the value of their shares greatly decreased or wiped out. They arent the one being saved by this. The ones being saved are Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and others.
Psychedelic Werewolf said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:14
So much for these economists that consider themselves almost scientists…Watching CNBC, I’m amazed at how much of this is based on emotions and blind faith.
Now there needs to be a national discussion on these four words… Too Big To Fail.
J— said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:14
New York Times:
The base of this pyramid has to be fortified.
sagra said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:14
And my Euros are going in the crapper! >_<
Your Uncle Bastard said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:16
All your bad debts are belong to us…
Bitter Scribe said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:19
It’s not quite true that ordinary people are “getting precisely nothing out of this.” IIRC, as the bailout is currently structured, the companies being bailed out will have to offer better terms to homeowners in financial distress.
Yes, the bailout sucks. But having the economy implode would suck even more.
N.C. said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:19
Well, I decided to make the best of the shit sandwich and put a little money into some cheap stocks just before the nationalization announcement. Might as well be part of the problem since I’m about $5 million/year short of being part of the solution.
WereBear said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:21
This is sick and amazing:
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=11354
Remember the whole Beauchamp/running over a dog thing? Well, Hatley, the man who disputed Beauchamp’s account and libeled him by saying Beauchamp was a problem soldier, the guy the wingnutosphere embraced as the real soldier:
Yes, the same one, according to Balloon Juice.
christian h. said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:23
The problem is that nobody knows what “fair market value” for all those mortgage backed securities, and the derivatives based upon them, is - b/c there’s no market for them at this time. The taxpayer will basically end up buying them at some fantasy price. Color me cynical, but given who the deciders are (in both parties), I’d be shocked if that price didn’t end up being too high.
noen said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:23
The base of this pyramid has to be fortified.
Hard to do when the pyramid is upside down. This current market rebound is just an elastic band effect. It will snap back soon enough. Banning shorts only delays the inevitable and in fact guarantees the correction will be worse.
Ban on shorts comes off on Oct 2nd, economy craters on the 3rd.
Orange Tom said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:29
Shit.
This is just the kind of fucked-up thing that Hoover would’ve tried if things had been this bad and if he could’ve gotten away with it. What these pricks have done is made it a law that the rest of us are going to have to eat the shit of the rich (but it’ll all trickle down folks, because they’ll be eating well).
This doesn’t solve anything, it just ensures that the fuckers who have set this up will be able to retire to their guarded, gated communities, whilst the rest of us clutch our threadbare coats in the howling winds of eternal Winter. Eat the rich, folks, they’re high in fiber.
Ringo the Gringo said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:31
Back in 2003 President Bush proposed a massive regulatory overhaul of the housing finance industry that would have created a new agency within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
The Democrats killed the proposal. The current meltdown in the mortgage industry is a direct result of giving mortgages to people who could not pay them back, a practise which was protected by Congressional Democrats.
You can read about Bush’s proposal here:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
Righteous Bubba said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:32
Conservatives are big chickens so there.
PeeJ said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:32
* Grab our pitchforks and storm the castle. Or, as is the case for some of us, grab your guns.
Gary Ruppert said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:38
The fact is that our economy is back due to Bush and McCain’s leadership.
All Obama does is whine, but our economy has been saved from liberal-induced doom.
PeeJ said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:43
Yeah sure, el gringo dingo dongo. But the bill that came about
And who was in charge of Congress in 2005?
Anyway, “but the measure was sharply criticized by the Bush administration…”
Umm, so Congress, the R controlled house, at least, produced a bill that was so different from the Bush proposal that even the admin didn’t like it.
The bill, btw, died when the 109th Congress (a.k.a. the “do nothing” congress) ended.
TigerHawk said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:45
In other words: the stock market is rallying because stupid rich people won’t have to suffer any consequences for the shitty investments they’ve made over the past decade.
I believe we will all learn that this is untrue. Not only is the government sweeping away the managements of the failed institutions even in cases when the current people in charge probably are not at fault except in a theoretical sense (see e.g., AIG, the CEO of which has been in the job only about three months), but it is crushing the stockholders (see, e.g., AIG again). All kinds of rich people are getting hammered (as they should). The people who will benefit the most from these interventions, I believe, are future borrowers, including people who do not have a mortgage today but would like to get one some day.
But, I agree, it is important that these bailouts result in massive if not total dilution of the equity. Anything else would be both unjust and make the moral hazard even worse.
FlipYrWhig said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:48
When Republicans say “overhauling regulatory oversight,” they generally mean eliminating it, or creating new ways of fucking over the people who can least afford to be fucked with. I assume that this Fannie/Freddie thing was one of those.
Lesley said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:50
“Goddammit I’m pissed.”
Me too. I almost barfed when I saw this headline. White collar crooks get bailed out with with tax money while ordinary citizens see their 401Ks go down the crapper.
What’s the message here. That the limits of greed can be pushed by the finance industry and when it all goes to hell the government will bail them out. I wonder how many of these bailees are being investigated by the FBI.
bailout schmailout said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:50
uh, guys, this is the umpteenth time a bailout has been heralded as the thing that will save us all, all of which previous have been quickly followed by another big drop and more financial failures. Wait a week before speaking in the past tense about this.
Righteous Bubba said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:51
John Quiggin at CT sees more disaster ahead.
http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/19/now-for-the-really-big-one/
Lesley said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:52
Borrowing a crapload more money from the Chinese and adding God knows how much to our national debt.
Before the bailout was announced yesterday, the Congressional Budget Office reported that the US would have 2.39 trillion more added to the national debt over the next ten years. Add another trillion and a half to that.
Lesley said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:55
Some of these headlines today are designed to restore confidence and get the consumer spending again. FAT CHANCE. This bail out is not going to “fix” the tanking economy and restore the massive job loss that’s occurred in the past year. It’s not going to get people back their 401Ks (since the FDIA only insures up to 100K). People are not going to be spending. Watch the retail sector tank even more.
WereBear said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:56
You know what really shows up Wall Street?
These mortgages are bad because people couldn’t make the payments when the ARM’s cranked up the interest.
It they weren’t so friggin’ greedy, they could have skipped the extra interest, that led to foreclosure, that led to the devaluation of the mortgages.
People in houses, banks getting money, neighborhoods stay healthy, and no meltdown.
Is it really this simple, and they missed it?
DragonScholar said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:58
On the plus side the government owns two loan companies and has a big chunk of an insurance company. Lets try and elect someone who can at least wield this power.
As for the crooks who did this - this is what you get when too many people in country don’t value building a working, sustainable society. When your only focus is greed, god, guns, and gays, you’re not making plans for the future.
Sadly then those of us who are responsible have to work to clean up their mess.
EBL said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:59
There ye ahrrrrr again, PeeJ– last night I addressed the toothbrush-photo issue at about 2:30 AM:
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/11937.html#comment-690591
I know that you live in a tall building on W Burnside, but that’s it for contact info other than via this venue. Ringler’s for a tankard of ale? It’s on me, mate. Just name yer day and time; I’m generally free of a regular sailin’ schedule.
Righteous Bubba said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:01
There ye ahrrrrr again, PeeJ– last night I addressed the toothbrush-photo issue at about 2:30 AM:
Check back a thread or two and Peej left contact info.
Itchy Brother said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:02
Goddammit I’m pissed.
“I don’t know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you’ve got to get mad.”
–Howard Beale
DBaker said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:02
Ringo writes: Back in 2003 President Bush proposed a massive regulatory overhaul of the housing finance industry that would have created a new agency within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
The Democrats killed the proposal. The current meltdown in the mortgage industry is a direct result of giving mortgages to people who could not pay them back, a practise which was protected by Congressional Democrats.
The bolded portion is false. In fact, it was a Republican filibuster which killed so called reform. I recall reading an article recently about Congressman Oxley, (the one behind Sarbanes/Oxley, BTW) who was absolutely disgusted over
Furthermore, this whole business with mortgages, CDOs, 1 % option ARMs and other bullshit term mortgages happened after this. In fact, Freddie and Fannie never bought or guaranteed this portion of big shitpile in the first place.
Harry Reid was on Ed Schultz (yeah, I know) today saying that the Republicans have filibustered financial reform bills 73 times. I was driving so I am not sure if I heard it correctly. The GOP are sending out their surrogates all over the place, feeding us this shit about how its all Democrats fault for letting poor people get mortgages that they can’t afford. Cheetos Jonah has a nice example of this on America’s Shittiest Website, for example.
Now in regard to this post, due to the policies of the Bush administration, where we financed this lovely little war, as well as Heimat Security spending, which has built up a nice little campus in Fairfax County, by borrowing from the Chinese, we got ourselves into the position where the Chinese basically tell us what to do. As Thom Hartmann has explained on his radio show, AIG was actually formed as a Chinese corporation by an American. It has a lot of Chinese assets. The Chinese could not allow us to let it fail, otherwise they would have dumped all their dollar assets. That is the huge sword of Damocles that they hold over our heads. To make it even better, by pursuing oil import policies, we have further enriched lots of oligarchs in lovely democratic places such as UAE and Saudi Arabia.
In other words, Reagan and both Bushes have given us this shit sandwich by continuing to borrow lots of money over the years while, at the same time pursuing policies that make us import oil. Avedon Carol has a nice essay how Republicans just screw everything up even when you think they’re not. Fannie and Freddie are, although incompetently run, do what they are supposed to do, that is promote home ownership for not so rich people. We should not allow the narrative to become it’s Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac’s fault that rich people are getting away with stealing our money. That is what the GOP is looking to do with this.
Finally: Can you please, please, pretty please make fun of Jonah’s post?
J— said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:03
As Obama said in his acceptance speech (remember that?), “now is not the time for small plans.”
Orange Tom said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:03
Ok, so we’re on the verge of having to nationalize all of our important industries. At what point do these mofo’s announce that we’ve switched from a capitalist system to a communist one?*
I can hardly wait to hear the details of Palin’s 5-year plan from the Politburo. INCREASE AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION FOR THE GLORY OF THE STATE!
*(given the way that wingers can spin on a dime, I’d fully expect their blogs to defend the switch and to call us unpatriotic for meekly protesting it).
Lesley said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:05
werebear, the introductory interest rates often weren’t realistic. But you’re right, that they could have kept the interest rates low and kept people in their homes. Many of the borrowers begged the lenders to just hold the interest rate or raise it only slightly (instead of tripling it).
This crisis never happened in Canada THANK GOD because most consumers have stable low interest rates averaging between 5% and 7%. The problem we face in Canada is the astronomical cost of housing. If the low rates nudge up at all, many people are likely to foreclose because they won’t be able to make their montly payments. (Wages for the middle class have not kept up with inflation.) The financial industry here tried to introduce the 40-year mortgage scam to keep montly payments lower but the government stopped them in their tracks. 40 year mortgages keep people perpetually paying interest and never the principle and inflate (double or triple) the cost of their home.
Lesley said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:09
i have no problem with nationalizing industries (like oil) but I do have a problem with people like McCain and Palin running them. God what a nightmare that would be.
WereBear said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:12
Thanks, Lesley.
It’s extremely short sighted, in a consumer economy, to beat and starve the consumers and take away their spending money.
But if they thought long term, they wouldn’t be conservative. Ironically.
PeeJ said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:14
DBaker touched on this just above…
A major factor leading to this meltdown was deficiet spending. Specifically, spending a few trillion bux on a war, all of it borrowed from China and others. Devalue the dollar. Oil prices go up. Confidence in dollar falls. Costs us more when we borrow yet more. The value of US assets (as in our homes, among other things) gets way out of whack with the rest of the world.
Nobody could have predicted the collapse of the [twin towers | levees | economy | environment |....]
DBaker said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:17
Oh, and another thing. Because of all of the ARM reset rules, interest only mortgages, etc., because of the lack of regulation, we are forced to nationalize the mortgage industry. The effect of this is keeping the interest on 30-year fixed mortgages low enough and long enough to get everyone out of said shitty mortgages.
I have been getting several calls lately from mortgage brokers who are still in the business asking whether I need to refinance an ARM that I might have. These are all FHA backed mortgages, allowing you to refinance at a relatively low fixed 30-year rate. The idea here is to get enough people in said mortgages to stabilize the market.
What the chatterers on TV talk about is the liquidity/credit portion of this crisis. What they don’t like to talk about is the asset portion, or the lack of proof thereof. The nationalization serves the purpose of finding out what big shitpile is actually worth so that we can clean out the mess. People still live in houses. A lot of them still pay mortgages. The houses are not worth zero, but they’re not worth 100 on a scale of 100 in 2006 either.
In short, this communist style nationalization actually does serve a common good. Reagan and the Bushes are assholes for getting us to this point. It will key to remind lots of people that when our taxes go up and the interest rates go up, and by god they will, that it is not President Obama’s fault but those scam artists from the Republican party.
Orange Tom said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:18
i have no problem with nationalizing industries (like oil)
The problem is that it won’t just be national resources, it’ll be everything, from insurance companies to auto manufacturers, airlines, big boxstores, what have you (picture WalMart turning into GUM). The lot of us will end up working for ration tickets and standing in lines all day for a chance to buy powdered eggs. Oh, it’s going to be as ironic as fuck-all, but mighty grim, all the same.
DBaker said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:20
Nobody could have predicted the collapse of the [twin towers | levees | economy | environment |....]
Exactly, don’t you know reality has a liberal bias?
Lesley said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:22
there’s this too.
http://blurbomat.com/archives/2008/09/18/obama-and-mccain-on-mental-health/
While Obama supports specific measures for those with mental health issues and disabilities, McCain advocates lifestyle counselling.
o'scrod said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:27
I don’t have a problem with nationalizing industries either, especially when it’s either nationalize or years of national and international economic despair. In fact I hope Bush and Co succeed in the next few days. It’s just that there is no longer an argument against giving everybody health insurance, there’s no argument against cancelling everybody’s credit card debt, against paying off everybody’s mortgage, against turning the wealth of future generations over to everybody right now. He who has a scrupple in this situation is dumb. The treasure house doors have been thrown open and the guards sent home. The bankers are in there right now stuffing their pockets.
James K. Polk, Esq. said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:27
WereBear said,
September 19, 2008 at 22:56
Is it really this simple, and they missed it?
I know that at least a few ARM mortgages were predicated on the market rising and based around the loan producing negative equity in the home.
The reset time frame for these loans were tied to a certain level of equity (eg when the loan hits 110% value the payments skyrocket).
mikey said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:29
It’s all just whistling past the graveyard.
Pissing on hell.
The system WILL break. It has to. To put it awkwardly, the system cannot NOT break.
Both the national budget and the balance of trade continue to run huge, utterly institutionalized deficits. The economy is fundamentally predicated on high employment with growth in personal and consumer spending. But incomes are flat while deficits grow and costs for necessary commodities such as energy and food skyrocket. The gap closed by selling US Debt.
But now, it’s like the last months of an addicts life. That which has sustained him is now killing him, quickly, but to do the very things necessary to avert the final catastrophe is unthinkable.
Consumer spending shrinks. Deficits rise. There IS no money to pay the debt service, so the treasury makes more. That money is worth less than the money it’s replacing, so they make more. Inflation drives the costs of everyday goods beyond the reach of everyday consumers. Credit card and personal debt skyrockets, and the banks start calling in the debt and cutting off the credit. Less spending. More currency, worth less. More bankruptcies, more unemployment, less taxes collected, bigger deficits.
There IS a point of collapse. We don’t know exactly where it is, and to some extent it is subject to events yet to transpire. But make no mistake. Whatever form the United States of America takes in 2018, it will look NOTHING like the USA of today.
It will be nasty, harsh and very likely bloody for most of us.
And it’s still taboo to do ANY of the things we need to do NOW to even simply soften the collapse…
mikey
Lesley said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:31
Starbucks stops serving milk as China crisis snowballs
I see this scenario happening in Canada after the Conservatives get their majority, which the polls suggest they might. They just deregulated food inspection to save 3 million dollars. A drop in the frickin’ bucket. In the past month 18 people have died from eating tainted meat from Maple Leaf Foods (who delayed the recall). And countless others are sick or at risk. Meanwhile our Con Agri Minister has been making jokes about the deaths in government conference calls and the prime minister refuses to fire him because “that joke shouldn’t have been leaked.” It’s insane. I may have to move to the US if Obama is elected.
InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:34
I can haz “Sadly, No” Manhattan Meetup?
Seriouse cat is seriouse.
Lesley said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:37
The system WILL break. It has to. …Both the national budget and the balance of trade continue to run huge, utterly institutionalized deficits. The economy is fundamentally predicated on high employment with growth in personal and consumer spending. But incomes are flat while deficits grow and costs for necessary commodities such as energy and food skyrocket.
Succinctly put and who wouldn’t agree with this (besides Gary Palin McRuppert)?
The shit is going to hit the fan, it’s just a matter of when. China must be whistling dixie past the graveyard.
Masson’s Blog - A Citizen’s Guide to Indiana » Opportunity Costs said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:41
[...] Costs By Doug From Sadly, No: In other words: the stock market is rallying because stupid rich people won’t have to suffer [...]
Arky - Chuthuhlusexual said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:42
I’m pretty sure the ban on short selling only applies to naked shorting which is illegal and has been illegal for a very, very long time. In addition the ban only applies to 800 publicly traded stocks. It is a half-assed bizarre measure to say you’re going to fix things by temporarily enforcing the rules you should have been enforcing all along (at least in regards to 800 companies) but maybe it will shake out some of the assholes who make their living at this sort of thing.
You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:44
Shorter “demise of everything” post:
Capitalism is inherently doomed in a globalized-trade world without putting brakes on the ability of those with capital to make all the rules.
dadanarchist said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:48
Time to reread the Nation special issue from back in the spring:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080407/zinn
Link to Zinn’s article, with links to the other contributors at the bottom.
Personally, I think consumers should start demanding price caps on food and energy prices.
tigrismus said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:52
ALL short selling of 799 financial stocks is banned until October, not just naked shorting, which, as you say, is already illegal.
And Lesley: the FDIC does only cover $100k per person per bank, but that wouldn’t cover 401k’s anyway.
les said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:57
You know what really shows up Wall Street?
These mortgages are bad because people couldn’t make the payments when the ARM’s cranked up the interest.
It they weren’t so friggin’ greedy, they could have skipped the extra interest, that led to foreclosure, that led to the devaluation of the mortgages.
People in houses, banks getting money, neighborhoods stay healthy, and no meltdown.
Is it really this simple, and they missed it?
Problem–all these mortgages were wrapped up in giant shitpile derivatives, so brokers could make money marketing, AIG could make money insuring, hedgers could make money….And now, nobody knows who owns any particular mortgage, nobody knows who has the authority to change terms, nobody knows who holds the failures v. the good loans, and on and on. Derived complexity for money’s sake; the problem has no straightforward, business/consumer oriented solution.
Balloon Juice said,
September 19, 2008 at 23:58
[...] hook for a couple trillion (if they say it is going to cost a trillion, double to triple that), the greedy bastards who got rich screwing us with the “free market” are reacting favorably. This seems as appropriate as [...]
montysano said,
September 20, 2008 at 0:06
Shorter right wing echo chamber, 8/18/2008:
And……….. as to what We The People “bought” this last few days: the Fed has no fucking clue whatsoever. It could be reasonably valued stuff, and it could be complete toxic waste. That’s the beauty of the $60T shadow banking system: surprises!
WereBear said,
September 20, 2008 at 0:10
I may have to move to the US if Obama is elected.
Damn, Leslie, come on down! (Catchphrase from long running US game show.)
I keep trying to convince my partner to let us just burn down the CC debt, pay it off in a couple of years, and take the hit on our credit rating, which can be rebuilt.
But I can’t make a convincing enough argument that we should game them back.
montysano said,
September 20, 2008 at 0:10
I’m completely with Brad re: the torches and pitchforks mood. The last time this happened, it was in the pre-Internet era, and no one knew much about it until it was a fait accompli. This time, I’ve been able to watch this unfold/unravel in Technicolor, and it’s nearly driving me mad.
InsaneInTheCheneyBrain said,
September 20, 2008 at 0:13
From Wikipedia:
Righteous Bubba said,
September 20, 2008 at 0:23
It will be nasty, harsh and very likely bloody for most of us.
On the other hand our tastes will broaden. Yum!
Incognito said,
September 20, 2008 at 0:29
Aren’t we glad that the Federal Government is bailing out all these Wall Streeters just in time for the sale of The New Yankee Stadium luxury boxes!!! I bet all those people who lost their homes feel a lot better knowing there will soon be wine tastings, sushi, and caviar at Yankees Games. Everything will be back to normal.
Trilateral Chairman said,
September 20, 2008 at 0:30
All kinds of rich people are getting hammered (as they should).</i?
Yep. I have relatives who live and work in hoity-toity areas in and around NYC, and they’re already seeing the effects. A fair number of people have lost their jobs, and a good number of mansions are in foreclosure. Yeah, maybe they won’t suffer as much as you think they deserve–they’re not going to end up on the streets with tin cup in hand–but they’ll feel it. Remember that these people are largely spoiled; if they have to sell the ski cottage and the island villa and the private plane, they’ll hate it.
The people who will benefit the most from these interventions, I believe, are future borrowers, including people who do not have a mortgage today but would like to get one some day.
Bingo. My wife and I have been renting ever since I graduated from college (the housing boom started shortly before that). We’ve had a number of short-term positions over the years, but we’re finally looking for a permanent place to settle down (if the academic job market manages to come through for us). Before all this happened, a decent house would’ve been out of our price range in most markets. Now it’s a different story.
We have good credit, a good amount of savings in fairly safe financial instruments, and stable jobs. I have some sympathy for people who ended up in upside-down mortgages, especially if they got into them without really understanding what they were doing…but I don’t give a damn about Dick Fuld. For us, this is a good thing. So far, anyway.
WereBear said,
September 20, 2008 at 0:40
It reminds me of that great last line of Goodfellas:
I have the live the rest of my life as a schmuck.
Jamey said,
September 20, 2008 at 0:42
My understanding, via a fair-trade/green fund manager who’s of a quite liberal bent, is that it’s a necessary evil. The need to prop up venerable (venerial?!) firms is a sop to the brokers who’ve long put “widders and orphans” into long-term, bluest-of-blue-chip stocks, like FDMC and Lehman. Deregulation permitted these companies to run like a crooked casino; most brokers only understand the for-public-consumption numbers; only a very few are privvy to the insider stuff. What this means is that people on fixed incomes, derived from preferred equities bearing income–most of whom had asset wealth of <$125 k, which isn’t really all that much, when one considers that the principle isn’t liquid, but pays 5-6% or so/annum–rather the prospect of equity growth, were getting fucked six ways from Sunday. And when the call date on a preferred is long off, meaning a seller risks some sort of contractual penalty, brokers didn’t have much wiggle room when Lehman, Merrill, and others started to tank. Multiply these widders and orphans by or ten million, and it’s clear how much supposedly “stable” money was dumped into pinstriped Ponzi schemes. The SEC/FTC acts that permitted brokerages to act like merchant banks and consumer lenders totally sucked–they all started trading in hinky debt generated by the latest bubble, RE. And their friends on the Hill further gutted regulation and oversight, to permit lenders to dole out more bad loans, safe in the knowledge that they wouldn’t be allowed to fail.
I guess the steps were necessary, because people started to ask the question, “what if everyone panics? Where, then, do people put their retirement money?”
Sucks. Unfair. Means that some folks will get away with murder. But in a weird way, it’s for the greater good.
But, yeah, since we’re bailing out Wall St with taxpayer money, can we PLEASE let Bush’s cuts to the highest tax brackets and capital gains/inheritance taxes expire? Joe Biden’s right: It’s the American thing to do. Those who profited most from greed should be on the hook to pay the price.
/uninformed rant.
Lesley said,
September 20, 2008 at 1:02
Naked short selling is the practice of selling a stock short without first borrowing the shares or ensuring that the shares can be borrowed as is done in a conventional short sale. When the seller does not then obtain the shares within the required time frame, the result is known as a “fail to deliver.”
What Bush has done to the country for the past eight years. CHARGE HIM.
WereBear said,
September 20, 2008 at 1:15
I wonder if Bush could be defended as “non compos mentis” and their defense would be every speech he ever made.
Now Cheney… there’s a supervillain ripe for a takedown. I wonder how much money the taxpayers have spent keeping him alive?
Drill Swollen "OneMan" Palin said,
September 20, 2008 at 1:38
“Both the national budget and the balance of trade continue to run huge, utterly institutionalized deficits.”
Y’all talk about this like it’s a bad thing. Remember what Dick “I shot a man in the face” Cheney said: “Deficits don’t matter.”
Q. E. Muthafuckin D.
Jennifer said,
September 20, 2008 at 1:45
Well, thank heavens you didn’t say anything about guillotines, or Atrios would get the vapors.
But I’d be happy with a conceptual analogy to the guillotine - taxing the fuckers to the gills to pay for cleaning up the mess. “Chopping off” a goodly portion of their ill-gotten wealth, as it were.
Now, please don’t ban me for life for using the bad “g” word twice. It’s not like it will put the secret service all up in your grill or anything.
Stevenovitch said,
September 20, 2008 at 1:46
Deduction: AIG apparently made a business out of issuing absurdly risky insurance policies. We now own AIG. Can AIG start providing our health insurance? I feel, as partial owners, we are all entitled to this perk. Get back to me on this.
MzNicky said,
September 20, 2008 at 1:47
All I know is what Teh Spouse, a financial advisor who has worked for a financial-services subsidiary of AIG for nearly 25 years, tells me. We’re personally finally able to breathe normally tonight after weathering this distinct possibility earlier in the week that if AIG didn’t get bailed his retirement fund, which he has built up steadily over this period of time, would have evaporated overnight. (Not to mention he’s also had MRIs and iodine scans to deal with.) We’re glad that didn’t occur, but that’s scant reassurance for what may be to come for all of us.
First: The government will make money from the bailouts of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and AIG. In the case of AIG it’s a bridge loan, with interest, that AIG will pay back by selling off such lower-tier interests it currently owns, such as, for example, airplane-leasing to the major airlines. Less we harbor the fear that all of us who pay US income taxes will be bearing the burden of sustaining six- and seven-figure Wall St. douchebags whose greed and unrestrained practices helped lead us into this disaster, my understanding is that many many of those folks’ salaries and nest eggs were directly tied into stock options and commissions, etc., which are now off the table. Beyond that I am stupid about what’s going on. Just wanted to add that.
Any questions? I got Teh Spouse in the House, one of the good guys who’s just been trying to make a living all these years by helping people figure out how to invest their $$ so they could send their kids to college and help their parents pay for their old-age nursing-home and health needs without going bankrupt, and then hopefully retire comfortably their own selves before they drop dead. A public service provided free of charge here for fellow SadlyNaughts if anyone wants straight answers without industry or govt. bullshit, a lot of which is being slung.
Will check back because we’re going to go have several drinks and watch Season 2 of “The Office” on DVD.
MzNicky said,
September 20, 2008 at 1:48
PS — FWIW, spouse agrees with you Brad that some people deserve to be in stocks in public squares right now with rotten tomatoes in the hands of the angry mobs.
J— said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:02
Any questions?
What will happen with AIG’s sponsorship of Manchester United? Will they get to keep their name on the jersey, or will the U.S Treasury or the Fed take their place?
These are important questions.
Stevenovitch said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:08
Question, doesn’t AIG have like trillions of dollars in insurance policies on bad investments floating around that the US government is now liable for? How are we supposed to make money off of that?
D.N. Nation said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:13
Cheer up, everyone. 538 just dumped a hot batch of fail on the McPalin campaign.
For those keeping score, yes- the electoral projection is essentially what it was right after Obama’s acceptance speech.
mikey said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:13
I’d just like to know the methodology by which the new AIG management is going to determine the actual market value of these instruments, both the credit swap defaults and the other mortgage - backed securities that have been traded without oversight and cannot be market valued by anyone external to the trading ecosystem.
Oh, and remember I’m a dumb old grunt with a high school diploma I probably don’t deserve…
mikey
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:13
Hi MzNicky,
I’m glad to hear about your improved situation.
But I question the idea that we’ll be better off because the government will make money on the bailout.
The government may or may not make money (in US $), but going Argentina (or 1920s Germany) has very real costs…even if the USA itself, turns out to be too big to fail.
The US$ has been in the tank for the entire shrub-Cheney term (go figure).
This has led directly to increased costs in commodites such as oil, copper, gold, food, etc.
Recently, turmoil in the markets has led to a flight to quality (aka U.S. treasuries).
I’m going out on a limb and saying that’s over.
So what’s in it for us, really? The way I see it, the shrub’ites have spent 7 1/2 years screwing the average citizen, and now they’ve looted the treasury and left us the tab. Watch and see how badly the next administration’s options are limited by the greedy, short sighted decisions the present one has made.
b-psycho said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:25
So, Brad (if you’re still reading): since clearly the sole purpose of the Federal Reserve & the Treasury department is to cushion big money types from the consequences of their dumb ideas, what do you think about abolishing the two?
Loneoak said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:36
Mzr MzNicky: I’m hearing a lot of mixed analysis about how much the Glass-Steagalll / Graham-Lehey-Bilely deregulation (allowing one institution to simultaneously offer commercial banking, investment banking, and insurance) is contributing to these various crises. To my noobish eyes, it definitely seems that turning mortgages into investment vehicles within a single institution contributed an awful lot. But I’ve also read that all these investment banks would be totally sunk if they couldn’t turn to commercial banks for fluidity. What’s the deal?
Also, how successful do you think the entity buying up bad mortgage paper will be? Will it ever be possible to disentangle the investors from the lenders and borrowers enough to renegotiate the mortgages?
Righteous Bubba said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:37
what do you think about abolishing the two?
It would be wise to get right-wingers to vote for the guy who wants to abolish the former.
Trilateral Chairman said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:38
WereBear said: It reminds me of that great last line of Goodfellas:
“I have to live the rest of my life as a schmuck.”
See, it always reminds me of an exchange from the Godfather:
Michael: How bad do you think it’s gonna be?
Clemenza: Pretty goddam bad….That’s all right. These things gotta happen every five years or so, ten years. Helps to get rid of the bad blood. Been ten years since the last one.
Cuppa Invader "Jrod" Palin said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:40
I’m no economics expert. In fact, I fucking despise economics. I do know one thing, though: the US is absolutely not too big to fail.
In a way I’d almost prefer to just let the fucking system collapse. The sooner it finally crashes down, the sooner we can start over again. Pushing back the inevitable in the hopes our house of cards will at least stay up until we’re dead and it’s our descendants problem seems incredibly selfish.
On the other hand, we can’t know how things will play out when the shitpile finally crumbles. It’s not inconceivable that if we push it back one more generation we’ll be better prepared to deal. Not bloody likely, but that’s why it’s called “hope” and not “planning.”
Who knows, maybe Obama can sort it all out. *snort*
Lesley said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:41
First: The government will make money from the bailouts of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and AIG.
Not really since the gov’t’s already borrowing money hand over fist to cover the Iraq war - with interest. It may not even break even.
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:46
In a way I’d almost prefer to just let the fucking system collapse. The sooner it finally crashes down, the sooner we can start over again.
You might not like economics, what about history?
And just because it’s Friday at the Haus of Sad, don’t think there isn’t a pop quiz.
What followed the Weimar Republic?
Cuppa Invader "Jrod" Palin said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:47
Speaking of hope, however, I’m glad to hear that things are looking up for PeeJ and MzNicky.
Speaking of Sadly gatherings, it’s about time for another one in Portland, now that
I live hereum, some time has passed.Speaking like a pirate, AAAR matey, I came t’ plunder some booty, but the booty be gone! Whar be the Lehman Brathers booty tha’ wench promised me? Thar’s naught here but a pile o’ shite smeared stock certificAAARs!
Lesley said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:51
Last week’s New Rule is to the point.
The Total Dick-Head said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:52
I propose a solution:
It involves getting a lot of Republicans together and then having attractive women seduce them, drug them, steal their 500$ European carryalls and sell them overseas, applying the profit to our debt. We can probably break even in a couple of years.
We could double our return if we set up an alternate operation in all of the men’s bathrooms in America’s airports!
Cuppa Invader "Jrod" Palin said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:53
History is swell. Well, okay, most of it is pretty horrible. I guess the question is, do things go to shit now and we deal with it, or do they go to shit later and our kids deal with it?
If there’s a way out of this mess that doesn’t involve terror, starvation, and bloodshed, well, let’s make it happen. I don’t see how, but it’s not like I couldn’t be wrong here. I hope I am.
Lesley said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:57
It involves getting a lot of Republicans together and then having attractive women seduce them,
You’ll need a few attractive men and children for some of them.
Oregon Guy said,
September 20, 2008 at 2:59
Nobody, and no nation, is immune from the laws of history.
Not even US. Or, the US.
History shows us that Americans are reluctant to face the facts and take uncomfortable action until it is almost too late.
So are we gonna make it in time for “almost,” this time?
Lesley said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:03
If I hear another neocon blather about welfare mothers ripping off the state I’m going to blow a fucking gasket.
WereBear said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:04
The problem with going full tilt boogie into this Brave New World (ie, we let it melt down) is that we’ve spent about 5,000 years slowly accreting things that work, no matter how badly.
And it’s not just us, as tempting as the thought might be of crazed wingers roaming the world with the two things they have a lot of, guns and crazed resentment. At this point, we would take the rest of the civilized world with us. This might make them unhappy.
So we do have to suck it up, but I say LEVERAGE this opportunity to rub out any attempts at Republican resurgence. From now on, any of them utters the words “deregulation,” “free market,” and “trickle down,” we send someone over to beat on them with a mutant sea bass.
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:11
So we do have to suck it up, but I say LEVERAGE this opportunity to rub out any attempts at Republican resurgence. From now on, any of them utters the words “deregulation,” “free market,” and “trickle down,” we send someone over to beat on them with a mutant sea bass.
WereBear for Preznit!
mikey said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:18
WereBear for Sergeant at Fish!!
mikey
Anonymous said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:22
Welfare mothers? Say no more.
PS said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:24
Hiding behind a cloak of
anonymityincompetencejim said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:24
Welcome one, welcome, er, well, some - those who can “afford” it - to The Wall Street Rigged Casino, where other folks’ taxes mean the House can never beat you!
Boy oh boy, doesn’t the timing on this just SHINE that economic bullturd for dear life, though? Yeah, I bet by mid-October they have to just ban selling of ANY stocks PERIOD to keep the market from pwning itself. Yeah, of COURSE a sick market can be regulated back to health - & the state can pass a law against entropy or death or sadness, too.
America: At War With One Adjective While We Pay A Different Adjective To Rape Our Children!
You bet your Bippy, a week at least … & the shock-wave from all the payback-fever up to now probably isn’t done surging yet & seems to have grown, in fact.
The crux is: can Wall Street tug in even MORE shills now? It’s been swirling around the porcelain bowl of its own blind rabid greed for about 2 years solid now - so it’s desperate. Upgrading my “Spondulixdammerung Level” to Def-Con 2.
Having their prior jiggery-pokery fall flat taught Paulson & Bush nothing.
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:25
What if we made them eat Brussels sprouts, mikey?
And then beat them with mutant sea bass!
Cuppa Invader "Jrod" Palin said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:25
WereBear has my vote! Lucky for me I’m white and the bank hasn’t begun foreclosure on my house, so there shouldn’t be any problems!
purvis ames said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:31
All kidding aside, this new program of socialism for the rich has doubled the national debt which was already at the preposterous level of seven TRILLION dollars. The bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac added five TRILLION dollars all by itself. This criminal looting of the Treasury is exactly what you can expect even more of from the Texas Mafia before they leave town.
mikey said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:32
For the LAST time.
Brussels Sprouts are NOT food.
You can use them to fill cracks in your driveway.
You can use them to polish your car.
You can throw them with GREAT velocity at your enemies.
You cannot, nor at any time SHOULD you ever eat them.
I hope this clears the whole BS thing up….
mikey
PeeJ said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:35
yummmmm. Brussell sprouts. Eat them up yum!
PeeJ said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:36
Would a certain someone get us a recipe for Brassica pie? I like pie.
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:45
Four and twenty blackbirds, baked in Brassica pie?
Caveat said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:47
This is fucked. McCain should drop the ‘O’ from his fake country first message.
It’s like a bunch of wastrel frat boys finding out that Dad is covering their overrun tab. More rounds for the House, bartender! Drinks are on him!
Lesley said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:51
Beautiful pictorial from watertiger and 2
John O said,
September 20, 2008 at 3:57
Thanks, Brad.
My rage is sadly close to terminal, which is a long bridge for me to cross.
As a pacifist, I am reluctant to advocate violence. But these fuckheads are making me reconsider. I may not participate, even though I regret being too young to get in on the ’60’s fun.
My personal opinion is that mass marches of people quietly holding their middle fingers up in the air would be the best protest option right now. We could invoke MLK and stuff.
It would be particularly interesting modern visual politics at a McCain inauguration.
John O said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:02
Lesley, Anne Laurie, and Jennifer:
Let us build a new super-race, not even knowing or caring what your particular race is. I’m single, never married, no kids, and straight, not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Goddamn you women are wonderful. A little bit of property out of the way, a good healthy ag-base, and some lovin’ is all we need.
LOL.
John O said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:06
Just for the record, I nominate mikey as our Secretary of Homeland Security, in the confines of our little paradise.
Seconds?
TigerHawk said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:10
As I suspected, the <a href=”http://naughtrelevant.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/stock-losses-in-congress-funny-stuff/”rich are getting hammered.
TigerHawk said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:11
Oops. Sorry about that. Here’s the link.
WereBear said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:12
I second that emotion.
And our Brad for Secretary of Satire.
John O said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:16
All the authors of this blog are, naturally, invited without restrictions.
Most, I repeat MOST, of the commenters out here can get in easily after a cursory interview with the leader of the cult, which would be me.
Before you go all freaky on me, I’m very libertarian in principle, which leaves a whole bunch of room for individual opinion. I just want your heart to be in the right place.
:-)
Dragon-King Wangchuck said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:18
Personally, I favor Maggie Gyllenhaal for Secretary positions.
John O said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:19
Just in practical terms, we’d need a few good lawyers and Doctors, a couple of farmers of success, and a few good, if not exceptional engineers.
Can’t do this without some expertise on hand.
El Cid said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:22
In other news, apparently a 12 year old middle-schooler in Oregon just invented solar cells 500 times more efficient than current solar cells.
Yeah, my middle school science project had something to do with solar energy, but it involved more construction paper and charts than improving solar cell efficiency 500 times.
MzNicky said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:24
Okay kiddos, I’m going to have to cut and paste your questions into a document and submit to the proper authority for his answers. He’s conferring with Jack Daniels, the remote control and a lapful of cats right now but I’ll report back when he’s got less pressing important stuff going on.
John O said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:25
All spouses and children are in, if you pass the interview. (Repeating: Not hard to do. Sanity and rationality, rationality being God’s (if there is one) gift to Mankind.
I’m talking about building a viable future here.
WereBear said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:26
I am an experienced organic gardener. So I’m in, John O.
Thanks for that linky, TH. It turns out, the biggest AIG loser in Congress, to the tune of between 5-11 million, is:
I recommend the Schaudenfraude. It is particularly good this evening.
John O said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:27
Aww, c’mon, MzNicky, you’re in.
No Jack of any kind here. Just fantasy politics. Preparing for the worst and all.
John O said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:29
WearBear, you were in interview-free. And we’ve even disagreed!
I’m a big fan of intelligent dissent.
Some Guy said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:34
This is what I like to call the “GET TO DA CHOPPA!!” style of economy. That is, “So long as the infrastructure doesn’t collapse until AFTER I’m dead, it’s all good. No new taxes! There’s no government like no government! Where the fuck is my subsidy check?!”
Dragon-King Wangchuck said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:34
El Cid,
As incredibly sucky as political journalists are (seeL Scherer, Michael), reporters on the science beat are worse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:William_Yuan
Dragon-King Wangchuck said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:36
In my crazy world where solar cells can’t be improved by a facto of 500, L’s look a lot like colons.
John O said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:36
Sorry, WEREBear. My bad.
In any case, a good leader listens to those who disagree.
And may even be persuaded by the case that is made.
That’s me. LOLOL.
WereBear said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:39
That’s cool, John O. I am pleased to join your Utopia of Intelligent Dissent.
And I can just imagine how McCain might scramble our new acronym…
John O said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:43
Yeah, you’re cracking me up, WB. MFI is one I can’t figure out the best third word for, though I have some lame tries. The only one I can come up with so far is, Mother Fucker, I! And it just isn’t any good.
And SPIC is a beauty, too. SEC, FEC, what difference does it make to the voters McCain needs to win?
This is why I propose a new little world. We are governed by lunatics.
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:46
youtopia?
How long before google buys it?
John O said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:48
I would propose a name for our little paradise, but the big thing is to get it up to speed before anyone notices.
It might be prudent to go with something like, “Main Street,” or maybe, “Don’t Pay Any Attention To Us.”
“Sanityville?” “RationalLand?” Too visible.
Cuppa Invader "Jrod" Palin said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:49
I’ll run the Committee to RE-Energize the Proletariat.
Movement For Intelligence, btw.
Lesley said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:50
A super race of liberals? As long as someone else endures the pregnancy
and child birth I’m in!
Just caught the Tina Fey as Palin video. What a delight.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/13/tina-fey-as-sarah-palin-o_n_126249.html
Cuppa Invader "Jrod" Palin said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:52
Oh, if you don’t want any idiot conservative interference for your little nation, call it The Land Where Everyone Has To Work Hard And Fucking Little Boys Is Punishable By Death. Or something more concise, I dunno.
John O said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:53
LOVE “Youtopia,” but once again I fear too much media attention.
We could rename it Youtopia after we’re established as a wonderful place to live. Should take about 2 years, max.
Location. Naturally, I propose the Midwest, since I think going through 4 legit seasons teaches some serious lessons about the passage of time and the power of nature, not to mention the generally fertile land, reasonably live and let live populace and global-warming-impending-disaster-free zone, for some time, but I’m open to suggestions.
Lesley said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:55
Amy Poehler rocks. Hillary would be proud.
John O said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:55
No chance any doctrinaire conservatives get through the interview with me and my intelligentsia, but someone like, say, John Cole?
In.
Gotta have a smart voice of balance.
Lesley said,
September 20, 2008 at 4:56
Youtopia where Youtubia is freely available for everyone.
WereBear said,
September 20, 2008 at